West Ham away (PL) Match Reaction Thread

[Munchies]

Bottled the win.

#WengerOut

#LeicesterFan

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cfmsw8_XEAAWPxc.jpg

[Marc Overmars]

Wanky defending costs us what should have been a good 3 points.

[Kano]

Ah well

[Ralpheroo72]

Give Wenger 3 more years, that was fantastic.

[RomfordPele]

We may as well just copy and paste old posts from previous games. Nothing new to say here. Wenger out.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cfmsw8_XEAAWPxc.jpg

[Globalgunner]

We wont amount to anything more than title pretenders under Wenger. He has no dignity so he will have to be hounded out. If another contract is put in front of him. I have no doubt he will sign.

[Munchies]

When Wenger finally leaves and Arsenal win the league

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cfc3RMAXEAEGZxU.jpg

:haha:

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfmuZqOWEAAp_Fi.jpg
This photo was just 6 games ago; Arsenal beat Leicester to go 2pts behind. Tomorrow #LCFC could go 13 clear of #AFC

The Collapse :bow:

[Power n Glory]

4th place. It's looking like a real possibility.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

This will probably be the weekend Leicester drop points. :lol:

[Dicks and chicks]

Since when is a point away against the inform team of the pl a bad result?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

When you're 0-2 up tbf.

[topgun]

4th place. It's looking like a real possibility.

And knowing this bunch it might not be all that comfortable either.

[Ralpheroo72]

Since when is a point away against the inform team of the pl a bad result?
Are you smoking crack?

[selassie]

Was anyone really that surprised about how we collapsed today? Classic Arsenal under Wenger. In the grand scheme of things it was a good result in our battle for top 4, the manner in how we got the result was just comical. I've given up caring and investing my emotions in this team under Wenger because nothing changes.

[RomfordPele]

I really should not read wenger's post match statements. They are bad for my blood pressure.

[Munchies]

When you're 0-2 up tbf.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXDo4dL7SU

[LDG]

It's not like it's a surprise result from this utter cluster fuck of a club, is it?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'm sure we will keep on fighting until it is mathematically impossible.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Reaction? What reaction?

Something different has to happen for me to have a reaction to anything this Club does.

[AFC Leveller]

Has Ozil broken the assists record yet (the one Henry held)?

[AFC Leveller]

The eleven that started today is good enough wo win the league season, they have a nice ballance to them and so much graft. They are being held back by Wenger and as long as he is here they won't win the title.

Give this team to any tactically astute manager and they would walk the league this season. A manager who really wanted to win today would have made sure his team went in at half time leading, not holding on and then going behind.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGmjXUO_dhs&feature=youtu.be

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUiUL2qhaq8

DT :bow:

[AFC Leveller]

TY is deluded for saying he would give him an extension.

Wenger has to go, this is not a knee jerk reaction or anything like that, he is simply not good enough anymore.

[Power n Glory]

From the start of the game, West Ham looked dangerous coming forward and our defence was wobbly. We were lucky to not be a goal down. Two chances ruled out for offside and one was a legitimate goal so we were lucky in that sense. But it also seemed suicidal for West Ham to play 3 at the back against us and we cut them open. 2 goals up and it should have been game over. But something about Wenger teams...they always switch off before halftime and just after coming out from the team talk. It's criminal.

This sort of think leaks into what was said in the week. The first two goals happened in quick succession and you can blame the players for switching off at that moment. But how can we come out from halftime after the team talk and allow Carroll to score again? Wenger doesn't adjust quick enough. Bilic switched to 4 at the back after halftime. He saw it wasn't working and made a tactical change. We did nothing at all. Nothing to stop the crosses or Carroll. When we're 3-2 down, Wenger just throws on every attacker and abandons the shape so we can salvage a point. What about hooking Bellerin at halftime and putting Chambers on and telling him to stay on Carroll? Or taking off that useless Gabriel? The amount of shit Merts get because his height and lack of pace catches peoples attention, but fucking hell....Gabriel is a joke. Kos was no better and I can't understand why Wenger pairs them when he knows Gabby doesn't speak English and Kos doesn't say fuckall to anyone.

Oh well. It's over. That's the title race over. Applaud the pure mental strength.

[AFC Leveller]

Cech should have started, yes Ospina had been decent but he has always been dodgy on crosses and Cech was bought for a reason.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQtKvCFmAU

[Power n Glory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUiUL2qhaq8

DT :bow:

I disagree on the point about Ospina but agree about Campbell. Great points about West Ham and Leicester City taking a chance with changing managers. Not sure why Man Utd are always the reference point.

[Letters]

A point there isn't a terrible result. They lost to Leicester and Bournemouth at home early season and haven't lost again at home in the league since. But when you're 2-0 up...yeah, you might want to win. At least we did get a point, this was one of the tougher games in our run in. Leicester are gone but I still reckon we can catch Spurs although if they beat Utd that does start to look trickier.

[AFC Leveller]

Looking at the replays again and their 2nd and 3rd goals could go down at Gabriel own goals. Ospina looked like he would comfortable save them both.

To little to late though.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PATALlyddhM&feature=youtu.be

[Kano]

Looking at the replays again and their 2nd and 3rd goals could go down at Gabriel own goals. Ospina looked like he would comfortable save them both.

To little to late though.

Second and third weren't down to the keeper as you say. Especially the third, which he was perfectly positioned to push the ball back out Gabriel put his dumb head in the way.

[Niall_Quinn]

Looking at the match stats and then comparing them to the BBC highlights suggests extreme bias in the coverage, so it's hard to judge anything from those appalling highlights. However, the dire defending is easy to spot. We didn't have a defensive strategy at all from what I could see. Wenger's insane insistence on having the full backs lay off wide men and give them time and space to put in crosses was at the root of one goal and a corner that led to a goal. But we've been doing this for over a decade so nothing is going to change. Add to that what looked like (from biased highlights) a shocker from both central defenders and it appeared we were lucky not to lose that game heavily. I see Wenger did nothing to correct the obvious flaws. He's such a non-event as a manager. All his bullshit talk about winning all our games, yeah right, as if that was ever going to happen. He needs to go yesterday so we can get somebody in to at least lay down some foundational work with the defence. Looks like 4th place is beckoning again. Fucking losers "led" by the arch loser himself.

[Niall_Quinn]

Second and third weren't down to the keeper as you say. Especially the third, which he was perfectly positioned to push the ball back out Gabriel put his dumb head in the way.

Which suggests the keeper was at fault for not making the call and taking decisive action. Ospina is a good shot stopper but he doesn't command his area like Cech. Wonder why the loon kept our best player this season on the bench?

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PATALlyddhM&feature=youtu.be

He really can't see the repeating pattern, can he? He takes each repetition as some unfortunate one-off oddity. If you can't handle headers in the box then a) Why the fuck not because that's bread and butter for a central two and b) Why give the opponent so much space and time on the flanks?

[hobson's choice]

I'm not mad at the results at this point. I'm just happy this team is actually playing good football in the attack.

I like watching this team play since Elneny, Iwobi, and Welbeck have been getting starts.

[AFC Leveller]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12932906_1313597561987409_83543937350487464_n.jpg? oh=52de50c2c27089235704793de085f44d&oe=5789380C

Pressure on, Arsenal off.

[Power n Glory]

Which suggests the keeper was at fault for not making the call and taking decisive action. Ospina is a good shot stopper but he doesn't command his area like Cech. Wonder why the loon kept our best player this season on the bench?

Be fair. Ospina wasn't at fault. Gabriel and Kosienly were terrible once again. Also, we weren't doing enough to stop the crosses. Just like against Utd when Rashford destroyed us, Kos and Gabriel were terrible in the air and not marking. Getting beat in the air is one thing but both seem unaware of the threat in the box and give players all the space they need in the box.

[Gooner23]

We need a world class centre back in the summer to play alongside Koscielny.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Which suggests the keeper was at fault for not making the call and taking decisive action. Ospina is a good shot stopper but he doesn't command his area like Cech. Wonder why the loon kept our best player this season on the bench?

Plenty of blame to go around, I'd argue that he's not even that good a shot stopper. He's fine if the shots at the right height. But his positioning is awful, he flaps at things and his distribution is poor.
Koscielny has always been poor dealing with aerial balls, Gabriel I think he needs refresher training on basic defending.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Monreal looked like a chump yesterday and really the whole thing was a tactical blunder as defence played too deep.

We made Andy Carroll look decent when he really isn't.

[Marc Overmars]

Monreal looked like a chump yesterday and really the whole thing was a tactical blunder as defence played too deep.

We made Andy Carroll look decent when he really isn't.

He's not the first and won't be the last oaf to look like a world beater against us. Our soft centre is common knowledge and regularly exploited. Throw in our inability to shake out of it when put on the ropes and you have a recipe for disaster.

[GP]

The frustrating thing is, it looked really comfortable at 0-2.

Then they get a goal out of nothing and we just shit the bed.

[Niall_Quinn]

What does Bould actually do? Anyone know?

Because when you see our fullbacks and defensive midfield leave such huge gaps on the flanks, all but inviting the opponent to measure up the cross, and then you see the generosity repeated from the lads in the box you just know it's some sort of fucked up defensive tactic in play. We know the players aren't poor or, as they often appear in key situations, inept.

[Marc Overmars]

Bould. :lol:

He's there to hold the clipboard.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I do wonder how often we will have to see ospina standing behind his line before it is coached out of him.

Carroll was always going to outjump everyone on the field so the tactic should have been to stop the crosses.

And I know I say it all the time but Payet is brilliant.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I've never understood the idea that it can't possibly get any worse with a different manager......

Of course it bloody can.... :lol: did anybody not see mourinho do his best to get Chelsea relegated?

[Marc Overmars]

It could get worse but one thing is for certain, it isn't going to get better with him in charge.

[GP]

There's risk in replacing the manager, of course there is.

But it's risk that we need to take.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Sure, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and get better in but we all know he will honour his contract.

Does anybody think he will just go and win something next season just to arouse a bit of doubt about it being his final season!

[GP]

He might pick up a cup. Anything beyond that?

No.

[Letters]

There's risk in replacing the manager, of course there is.

But it's risk that we need to take.
That's right, but the trouble with Wenger's stock being SO low right now (frankly it's far out of proportion to how 'bad' things are, just last year we finished 3rd and won the FA Cup, this year we've failed to push on and we really we should have) is it leads to woolly thinking about how Wenger is such an incompetent that anyone would come in and we'd do better. That's balls. Obviously. We need to replace him but with someone who can credibly push us on, and that's fewer people than many on here suppose.

[Niall_Quinn]

Okay so let's say he's not incompetent (despite a decade of evidence). Incompetent as in, not competent to do the job he is paid handsomely to do. In fact I find it incredible that anyone can still claim he's competent, but let's pretend he is. Is there anyone apart from Wenger, gingergirl and Ty who thinks Wenger can move this club on? Surely not. So we HAVE to get rid of him, it's not an option. He has to go. Saying it will be tough to find a replacement is not a reason to keep him here. And does anyone really think it will be tough to find a decent manager to come to London and manage Arsenal FC? The only tough part in that will be organising so many job interviews for eager candidates.

Of course we know that Wenger will cling on for at least one more pay day despite the harm he's doing to the club. So we're stuck with him for another year. But if the fans don't step up and make that one tough year there's every chance he'll wrangle another contract and then we're totally fucked.

Judge him at the end of the season was the request. Here we are. Season over. He's fucked it again. Surprise, surprise. Now the work to get him out should begin in earnest because this guy isn't going unless he's shoved. Next season needs to be the season of relentless protest.

[Letters]

Decade. Yes, once again 2 years ago you were happy about him getting a new contract. So stop pretending you think he's done a consistently bad job over the last decade.

And you know I'm also of the opinion that he needs to go, so I'm not sure what the point of the rest of your post is.

[Niall_Quinn]

Decade. Yes, once again 2 years ago you were happy about him getting a new contract. So stop pretending you think he's done a consistently bad job over the last decade.

And you know I'm also of the opinion that he needs to go, so I'm not sure what the point of the rest of your post is.

Happy for him to build on that moment, not plunge the club to new lows. And I'm starting to see you only say he should go because you know he's not going. You defend him at every turn and then say he should go. It's odd.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Okay so let's say he's not incompetent (despite a decade of evidence). Incompetent as in, not competent to do the job he is paid handsomely to do. In fact I find it incredible that anyone can still claim he's competent, but let's pretend he is. Is there anyone apart from Wenger, gingergirl and Ty who thinks Wenger can move this club on? Surely not. So we HAVE to get rid of him, it's not an option. He has to go. Saying it will be tough to find a replacement is not a reason to keep him here. And does anyone really think it will be tough to find a decent manager to come to London and manage Arsenal FC? The only tough part in that will be organising so many job interviews for eager candidates.

Of course we know that Wenger will cling on for at least one more pay day despite the harm he's doing to the club. So we're stuck with him for another year. But if the fans don't step up and make that one tough year there's every chance he'll wrangle another contract and then we're totally fucked.

Judge him at the end of the season was the request. Here we are. Season over. He's fucked it again. Surprise, surprise. Now the work to get him out should begin in earnest because this guy isn't going unless he's shoved. Next season needs to be the season of relentless protest.

1) who is ginger girl?

2) it will be difficult to replace him because the only person whose opinion of Wenger matters wants him to stay.

[RomfordPele]

Suspect the board are quite happy with spuds thrashing United. 4th place trophy is now pretty much secure.

No chance of Wenger being moved on as a result, so this is a bit of a pointless debate.

[Niall_Quinn]

1) who is ginger girl?

2) it will be difficult to replace him because the only person whose opinion of Wenger matters wants him to stay.

1) Gingergirl


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHg3qDeCVew

2) Hence a year of protest. If the fans are dumb enough to go into yet another season thinking we can compete then they probably deserve Wenger.

[Kano]

Suspect the board are quite happy with spuds thrashing United. 4th place trophy is now pretty much secure.

No chance of Wenger being moved on as a result, so this is a bit of a pointless debate.
There was never a chance of that happening anyway.

Paying fans who want Wenger out have a decision to make ahead of renewals coming soon.

[Marc Overmars]

We'll probably buy a few players this summer and that will grant him another reprieve. Come August Letters will be saying this is his last chance and off we go again into another season of so much promise that won't even come close to meeting expectation.

[AFC Leveller]

That's the sad thing, we know that whoever we buy (unless we buy Messi and Suarez) it won't make a difference wenger will find a way to bottle it. He is the reason we didn't win it this year, he has cost us another title (along with the one two years ago where he should have signed a striker) .

Next season will be like going on a long road trip on an old banger, you know it will let you down sooner or later and you won't get to where you want to.

[Marc Overmars]

There was never a chance of that happening anyway.

Paying fans who want Wenger out have a decision to make ahead of renewals coming home.

I'm renewing my Silver membership because it takes forever to upgrade from Red. I don't plan on attending many games though, bollocks to them.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm renewing my Silver membership because it takes forever to upgrade from Red. I don't plan on attending many games though, bollocks to them.

They don't want you, they want your money.

[Marc Overmars]

That is true.

My irrational love for this club. :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

1) Gingergirl


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHg3qDeCVew

2) Hence a year of protest. If the fans are dumb enough to go into yet another season thinking we can compete then they probably deserve Wenger.


Interesting that you think that the second one will make any difference, Wenger is there as long as Kroenke wants him there, fans don't attend matches?? No worries they can be replaced with fans who will or tourists who will. Plus the TV money is so high that it mitigates for any decrease in gate receipts.

If Wenger wants to stay beyond 2017 he will.

[selassie]

We'll probably buy a few players this summer and that will grant him another reprieve. Come August Letters will be saying this is his last chance and off we go again into another season of so much promise that won't even come close to meeting expectation.

This is the sad thing, knowing full well we won't win the league next season when a ball hasn't even been kicked. Sad times these days, it's not even like we don't have a decent enough squad.

[LDG]

We'll probably buy a few players this summer and that will grant him another reprieve. Come August Letters will be saying this is his last chance and off we go again into another season of so much promise that won't even come close to meeting expectation.

Are you wringing your hands and knashing your teeth saying Wenger is incompetent? Wooly thinking indeed.

[Power n Glory]

Interesting that you think that the second one will make any difference, Wenger is there as long as Kroenke wants him there, fans don't attend matches?? No worries they can be replaced with fans who will or tourists who will. Plus the TV money is so high that it mitigates for any decrease in gate receipts.

If Wenger wants to stay beyond 2017 he will.

So just shut up and take it in other words. ;)

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'm renewing my Silver membership because it takes forever to upgrade from Red. I don't plan on attending many games though, bollocks to them.

Same here.

If you give up the Silver now, you will have a near eternal memory of Wenger's last xteen seasons of rinse and repeat whenever you don't manage to get a ticket because of your shitty Red membership.

[Letters]

Happy for him to build on that moment, not plunge the club to new lows. And I'm starting to see you only say he should go because you know he's not going. You defend him at every turn and then say he should go. It's odd.
I defend him against the bile and the bullshit, nothing else. Part of the bullshit being 'new lows', of course. We're going to finish top 4, stop being ridiculous. Or nonsense like he's 'an imbecile' (Weekend games thread). I hope you appreciate the irony of you lamenting why things have to be pushed "to extreme" ('Who will win the league' thread) when you spout this sort of silliness.

I've been completely consistent. I said I'd judge him at the end of the season and while we're not there yet we're close enough to see we're not going to win the league and given that we're still a good month to go and the sides likely to finish above us, yes he should go. That doesn't mean that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING he does is wrong. But if he can't win the league this year then he clearly never will and with our resources now there's no excuse not to be challenging.

[Niall_Quinn]

I defend him against the bile and the bullshit, nothing else. Part of the bullshit being 'new lows', of course. We're going to finish top 4, stop being ridiculous. Or nonsense like he's 'an imbecile' (Weekend games thread). I hope you appreciate the irony of you lamenting why things have to be pushed "to extreme" ('Who will win the league' thread) when you spout this sort of silliness.

I've been completely consistent. I said I'd judge him at the end of the season and while we're not there yet we're close enough to see we're not going to win the league and given that we're still a good month to go and the sides likely to finish above us, yes he should go. That doesn't mean that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING he does is wrong. But if he can't win the league this year then he clearly never will and with our resources now there's no excuse not to be challenging.

So the constant money excuses are not you? Somebody hacking your account? Nobody said absolutely everything he does is wrong. You made that up as another demonstration of forcing all criticism out to the extreme fringe so you can knock is down.

[Niall_Quinn]

imbecile - Cambridge English Dictionary
dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/imbecile
imbecile meaning, definition, what is imbecile: a person who behaves in a stupid way

Who could possibly argue that Wenger is not an imbecile? On what grounds would you present such an argument?

[Letters]

Nobody said absolutely everything he does is wrong. You made that up as another demonstration of forcing all criticism out to the extreme fringe so you can knock is down.
You should hear yourself. Have a look at the match thread in the Watford game, whining about the substitutions he made (when we were comfortably winning, two of those substitutes then combined for our 4th goal), or in another match reaction thread (I forget which one) when you said that literally anyone would come in and we'd do better. You're coming across increasingly Zim-like, it's like you have a complete hatred for the man and just cannot help but criticise everything he says or does.
Exhibit A, the title and first post of Match Reaction thread after a good away win:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3556

So yes, I will defend him against that sort of balls. But I do think he should go. Those things are completely consistent.

And the money thing is talking about a time when we couldn't compete financially with the 'dopers', as you dub them. In that period it was reasonable to have somewhat lower expectations of the club (which doesn't mean we shouldn't have done better at times). But now the money is there, we're able to sign players like Ozil and Sanchez, it's yielded 2 FA Cups which was a good start but we needed to push on and we haven't. So he should go. That doesn't mean I need to act like he shagged my mum and wiped his cock on the curtains on his way out.

[IBK]

Oh well - the dropped points don't mean much after today's results. Pretty much beyond caring now anyway...

[Power n Glory]

I defend him against the bile and the bullshit, nothing else. Part of the bullshit being 'new lows', of course. We're going to finish top 4, stop being ridiculous. Or nonsense like he's 'an imbecile' (Weekend games thread). I hope you appreciate the irony of you lamenting why things have to be pushed "to extreme" ('Who will win the league' thread) when you spout this sort of silliness.

I've been completely consistent. I said I'd judge him at the end of the season and while we're not there yet we're close enough to see we're not going to win the league and given that we're still a good month to go and the sides likely to finish above us, yes he should go. That doesn't mean that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING he does is wrong. But if he can't win the league this year then he clearly never will and with our resources now there's no excuse not to be challenging.

With Leicester and Spurs on course to finish above us and clinch the title, it's a new low for us. We're not getting any better in the league despite adding more top quality players and spending more money. We finished on 79 points the season we signed Ozil. Following season we finished on 75 points despite adding Sanchez. Highest we can get this season is 77 and that's if we win all.our games.

[Chippy]

Oh well - the dropped points don't mean much after today's results. Pretty much beyond caring now anyway...

Too right! Let's hope Leicester don't fuck it up!

[Niall_Quinn]

You should hear yourself. Have a look at the match thread in the Watford game, whining about the substitutions he made (when we were comfortably winning, two of those substitutes then combined for our 4th goal), or in another match reaction thread (I forget which one) when you said that literally anyone would come in and we'd do better. You're coming across increasingly Zim-like, it's like you have a complete hatred for the man and just cannot help but criticise everything he says or does.
Exhibit A, the title and first post of Match Reaction thread after a good away win:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3556

So yes, I will defend him against that sort of balls. But I do think he should go. Those things are completely consistent.

And the money thing is talking about a time when we couldn't compete financially with the 'dopers', as you dub them. In that period it was reasonable to have somewhat lower expectations of the club (which doesn't mean we shouldn't have done better at times). But now the money is there, we're able to sign players like Ozil and Sanchez, it's yielded 2 FA Cups which was a good start but we needed to push on and we haven't. So he should go. That doesn't mean I need to act like he shagged my mum and wiped his cock on the curtains on his way out.

Ah, so you've decided my criticism of his ongoing managerial failures is bile and bullshit? We're sitting here 13 points off Leicester City, Ozil and Alexis and all, and this weekend we've really pushed the boat out to all but guarantee a finish below the spuds, but that's hardly justification for calling the architect incompetent. Doing so would be to "act like he shagged my mum and wiped his cock on the curtains on his way out."

I guess Wenger must be competent then. Is that what you are saying? So competent, in fact, you believe he should leave the club. Is that the complete consistency you are talking about?

[Niall_Quinn]

With Leicester and Spurs on course to finish above us and clinch the title, it's a new low for us. We're not getting any better in the league despite adding more top quality players and spending more money. We finished on 79 points the season we signed Ozil. Following season we finished on 75 points despite adding Sanchez. Highest we can get this season is 77 and that's if we win all.our games.

I'm not going to sit here and listen to that sort of bile and bullshit.

[Marc Overmars]

Same here.

If you give up the Silver now, you will have a near eternal memory of Wenger's last xteen seasons of rinse and repeat whenever you don't manage to get a ticket because of your shitty Red membership.

When the time comes for a new manager, I definitely want to be there to throw my support behind him.

[Niall_Quinn]

When the time comes for a new manager, I definitely want to be there to throw my support behind him.

Even if it's somebody who looks remarkably like Wenger in a false nose and glasses?

[adzzzbatch]

When the time comes for a new manager, I definitely want to be there to throw my support behind him.

Yeah I want to be there too when the circle is finally broken. Like GB said to me a while ago "don't let wenger push you away"

NLD derby will possibly be my owner visit next season.

[Gooner23]

I'm not going again until we have a new manager in charge, won't make any difference to the bean counters but hey ho. If Wenger really loved the club as much as he says, he'd realise it should be time up.

[Letters]

With Leicester and Spurs on course to finish above us and clinch the title, it's a new low for us. We're not getting any better in the league despite adding more top quality players and spending more money. We finished on 79 points the season we signed Ozil. Following season we finished on 75 points despite adding Sanchez. Highest we can get this season is 77 and that's if we win all.our games.
It is a weird one because we're going to finish below Leicester but probably above most of the other usual suspects. It's been a weird season all round.
I think 'new low' is exaggeration but we're going in the wrong direction and need someone to turn it around, it's increasingly clear that Wenger can't.

[Gooner23]

It's definitely a new low for me. The fact shitty and chavs have both been off the boil makes it even harder to take. This season was an open goal and we have fucked it up on spectacular fashion. Disaster of a season and Wenger is completely responsible. Any other top team in Europe and he'd be fired.

[Niall_Quinn]

Of course it is a new low. That's a polite way of putting it. All those years listening to excuses about how we couldn't compete because of finances. Then the dopers explode and we still can't compete. This is the season that has confirmed we never had a chance with Wenger in charge. It was all one big illusion while Wenger got on with the business of making big money for the guys at the top. No wonder they have rushed out to support him. He's their cash cow and this new low of a season is the first real threat to him. If he is to go on shovelling cash for Kroenke and Co a new set of excuses will be required and pronto. The current one seems to be this is a weird, one-off season. That won't hold for long though because of course the fans realise that one-off or not it was the season where the door was wide open for us, and if things go back to normal next season we're in some real shit. Wenger and crew better hope it's a one-off because their precious 4th place trophy will be under severe threat otherwise.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So just shut up and take it in other words. ;)

I'm not saying shut up, if you want to protest next season if it makes you feel better than go for it, but I imagine that will be all you acheive.
Frustration is usually a result of unwillingness to accept you are in a hopeless situation.

Wengers reaction in press conferences and anything you can read about the Rams in United States will give you all the information you need.

I honestly don't know what will happen at the end of next season, but even if Wenger goes there is no overwhelming obvious choice to succeed him. No Wenger is not good enough, but are any of the candidates we have been linked with up to the job?.
I think Leicester City and Ranieri are proof that the influence a manager has is overstated, Wenger needs to go because he hasn't got the ruthlessness to instigate a root and branch change in the squad.

Getting rid of Ospina, Mertesacker, Ramsey, Walcott, Campbell and Giroud along with Flamini, Arteta and Rosicky.

This weekend a back four of internationals abrogated their responsibilities by pulling back too deep allowing too many crosses to come into the box, you can blame tactical naievity as much as you like but these are professional footballers they shouldn't need the constant guidance of a crusty old frog in a sleeping bag straight jacket to know how to defend.

Of course that's not to excuse Wenger, these are his players he picks the team and in failing to spend he has stuck with players who either don't care or aren't very good.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMtJj1HSGV0

Skipped through this.

Good vid.

[Munchies]

'Arsene Wenger watched us finish 3rd last season and thought the squad could do better than that and a CL knockout stage exit, so he signed no outfield players and worse has unfolded.'


:ilt:

[Letters]

Ah, so you've decided my criticism of his ongoing managerial failures is bile and bullshit?
I gave several examples of your bile and bullshit.

[Kano]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMtJj1HSGV0

Skipped through this.

Good vid.
It's funny cos he's fat.

[Power n Glory]

It is a weird one because we're going to finish below Leicester but probably above most of the other usual suspects. It's been a weird season all round.
I think 'new low' is exaggeration but we're going in the wrong direction and need someone to turn it around, it's increasingly clear that Wenger can't.

Spurs finishing above us or pipping us to a title when we were clear favourites is a new low. That's no exaggeration. If we'd have finished 4th and the usual suspects came above us then you'd have a point but you're wrong in this case. If you can admit Wenger should be sacked for this season then that should say it all really.

[GP]

It's funny cos he's fat.

He's an embarrassment.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not saying shut up, if you want to protest next season if it makes you feel better than go for it, but I imagine that will be all you acheive.
Frustration is usually a result of unwillingness to accept you are in a hopeless situation.

Wengers reaction in press conferences and anything you can read about the Rams in United States will give you all the information you need.

I honestly don't know what will happen at the end of next season, but even if Wenger goes there is no overwhelming obvious choice to succeed him. No Wenger is not good enough, but are any of the candidates we have been linked with up to the job?.
I think Leicester City and Ranieri are proof that the influence a manager has is overstated, Wenger needs to go because he hasn't got the ruthlessness to instigate a root and branch change in the squad.

Getting rid of Ospina, Mertesacker, Ramsey, Walcott, Campbell and Giroud along with Flamini, Arteta and Rosicky.

This weekend a back four of internationals abrogated their responsibilities by pulling back too deep allowing too many crosses to come into the box, you can blame tactical naievity as much as you like but these are professional footballers they shouldn't need the constant guidance of a crusty old frog in a sleeping bag straight jacket to know how to defend.

Of course that's not to excuse Wenger, these are his players he picks the team and in failing to spend he has stuck with players who either don't care or aren't very good.

A more elaborate way of saying 'shut up and take it'. ;) You're talking in circles. 'Wenger must go...the fans are powerless, the owner doesn't care, there are no obvious candidates, it's the players fault'.....:banghead:

You say you don't know what will happen next season but seem to have it all mapped out with the assumption that pressure from the fans won't do anything. Whether people protest or just stay away from games, it's better than nothing.

[selassie]

http://dailycannon.com/2016/04/arsenal-to-introduce-new-excuse-manual-for-201617-after-exhausting-current-edition/?

[Niall_Quinn]

I gave several examples of your bile and bullshit.

I've called him incompetent, an idiot, an imbecile, an arrogant fool, a stubborn old goat. I've even defined the terms and each is entirely appropriate given his performance levels, his repetitious mistakes, his failure to learn from or even accept those mistakes and his obvious disdain for the fans. I stick by all of it because the facts support what I'm saying.

What have you been saying? He can't compete because other clubs have more money, he's done as well as can be expected because other clubs have more money, there was no point trying to finish as high as possible last season because the title had already gone, he's bought Ozil and Alexis so ignore the fact he didn't strengthen last summer and blew another title, Wenger can be excused because the chavs fucked up, Wenger may have been embarrassed but so have the gypos. Always the excuse.

Bile - anger, bitterness, or irritability. Plenty of fans feeling all of those things right now I would say. And apathy - which comes after anger in many cases. I'll own that. Fans should be angry when the club they support retains a manager who has no ambition. What's the point of competitive sport without ambition?

Bullshit - talk nonsense to (someone) in an attempt to deceive them. Well we have what I'm saying, we have Wenger's record, and we have the bullshit apologies you're shovelling.

[mastermind84]

The eleven that started today is good enough wo win the league season, they have a nice ballance to them and so much graft. They are being held back by Wenger and as long as he is here they won't win the title.

Give this team to any tactically astute manager and they would walk the league this season. A manager who really wanted to win today would have made sure his team went in at half time leading, not holding on and then going behind.

thats inaccurate.

There was no balance yesterday. We had a great attack, and its probably our best attack since 2007-8, but the balance is bad. Sanchez is great attacking on the right, but he left Bellerin out to dry. Same with Iwobi on the left.

We also need to start playing 3 CMs.

I cannot stress this enough, but if Sanchez learns how to play center forward it would solve a lot of our problems. But Sanchez is super daft and will keep chasing the ball and just messing up things.

[Power n Glory]

We tried 3 CM's at the start of last season and it didn't work.

[selassie]

We tried 3 CM's at the start of last season and it didn't work.

He doesn't know what he's doing, I bet he doesn't even know what his strongest team is. Seriously, he's just stumbling across systems now in periods of the season when we have pretty much nothing to play for. This weekend was a complete snapshot of ours & our title rivals seasons. We go to West Ham without a plan and collapse and our rivals who incidentally appear to have a plan win "must win" games, Wenger is totally finished, this season has completely exposed him.

[selassie]

It is a weird one because we're going to finish below Leicester but probably above most of the other usual suspects. It's been a weird season all round.
I think 'new low' is exaggeration but we're going in the wrong direction and need someone to turn it around, it's increasingly clear that Wenger can't.

It's not weird, it's predictable Arsenal under Wenger collapsing in title races, it really doesn't matter who we are up against we always find a way to screw it up.

You think 'new low' is an exaggeration, think about this for a minute, we were 4 points clear at the top at Christmas and now we're 13 points behind the leaders, it's an abomination, it's totally and utterly unacceptable collapsing in title races against teams who have less experience and inferior squads, we're miles behind too, out of sight!!! It's a new low alright, a total embarrassment.

[Gooner23]

Spot on.

There is no defence anymore.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A more elaborate way of saying 'shut up and take it'. ;) You're talking in circles. 'Wenger must go...the fans are powerless, the owner doesn't care, there are no obvious candidates, it's the players fault'.....:banghead:

You say you don't know what will happen next season but seem to have it all mapped out with the assumption that pressure from the fans won't do anything. Whether people protest or just stay away from games, it's better than nothing.

Fans can do what they like I just don't expect it to acheive much, I could be wrong....as I've said if people want to protest it's up to them I don't object to it.
When I say I don't know what will happen next season I mean I don't know whether Wenger will walk away or not, I don't personally believe if he did it would have anything to do with fan protests though.

And I find it interesting how blaming the players does in the eyes of others absolve the manager, it doesn't. These aren't programmable androids footballers learn the tools to their trade at a very young age and either have it or don't. Yes a manager can lessen the effectiveness of a decent player by playing them out of position or playing them too often or not enough, or not picking the right players by considering the opposistion and Wenger is guilty of all this.

But players shouldn't need to be instructed to perform the basics, they should know. And this is why the players are at fault as much as the manager....well either at fault for being lazy or just not good enough.

[Power n Glory]

Fans can do what they like I just don't expect it to acheive much, I could be wrong....as I've said if people want to protest it's up to them I don't object to it.
When I say I don't know what will happen next season I mean I don't know whether Wenger will walk away or not, I don't personally believe if he did it would have anything to do with fan protests though.

And I find it interesting how blaming the players does in the eyes of others absolve the manager, it doesn't. These aren't programmable androids footballers learn the tools to their trade at a very young age and either have it or don't. Yes a manager can lessen the effectiveness of a decent player by playing them out of position or playing them too often or not enough, or not picking the right players by considering the opposistion and Wenger is guilty of all this.

But players shouldn't need to be instructed to perform the basics, they should know. And this is why the players are at fault as much as the manager....well either at fault for being lazy or just not good enough.

You're having a debate with yourself. Knock yourself out.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You were the one who took exception to my opinion that protesting will acheive nothing

And the point about the players is to refute the suggestion that the squad is good enough it just needs a new manager, when the fact is a new manager and a new team is required.

[Power n Glory]

You were the one who took exception to my opinion that protesting will acheive nothing

And the point about the players is to refute the suggestion that the squad is good enough it just needs a new manager, when the fact is a new manager and a new team is required.

:coffee: circles.


Wenger is there as long as Kroenke wants him there, fans don't attend matches?? No worries they can be replaced with fans who will or tourists who will. Plus the TV money is so high that it mitigates for any decrease in gate receipts.

If Wenger wants to stay beyond 2017 he will.


I honestly don't know what will happen at the end of next season, but even if Wenger goes there is no overwhelming obvious choice to succeed him. No Wenger is not good enough, but are any of the candidates we have been linked with up to the job?.
I think Leicester City and Ranieri are proof that the influence a manager has is overstated, Wenger needs to go because he hasn't got the ruthlessness to instigate a root and branch change in the squad.

[Niall_Quinn]

You were the one who took exception to my opinion that protesting will acheive nothing

And the point about the players is to refute the suggestion that the squad is good enough it just needs a new manager, when the fact is a new manager and a new team is required.

We don't and can't know what players we really need or if we in fact need a new squad, which is very unlikely. A new manager will have to figure that out. I don't blame the players. I mean I'll blame them if they fuck up on a match to match basis or if they are habitual under-performing fucks like Theo Walcott. But in terms of the tragic mediocrity we are trapped in and the lack of a backbone when it come to the fight, that's all Wenger and the culture he has built.

It can't be the case every player through the doors over the last 10 years has been weak or unambitious. It can't be the case we haven't stumbled on a single leader in all that time. The environment at Arsenal breeds complacency and arrogance and entitlement. Wenger insists on having control of everything so this is his team, his complacency, his arrogance, his lack of ambition and it flows down through the players and out to half the fan base. This is where the 4th place trophy comes from, Wenger's divided and inverted priorities. Please the board, please the players, please the fans, please the media. Yes, it's bloody tough. But the best way to do the job is to compete hard and win, then by one means or another everyone ends up happy. Pleasing the board while reaching the minimum benchmark everywhere else is a losing policy, the opposite of what's required. That's Wenger's choice and he has to live by (though apparently not fall by) his choice.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:coffee: circles.

The two things don't necessarily contradict each other. Wenger in my view will be there as long as Kroenke wants him and the only alternative to this is if he walks away, obviously the statement "as long as Kroenke wants him" is dependent on what Wenger himself wants to do.

So when i say i genuinely don't know what will happen, i don't know whether Wenger will sign a new contract or walk away....those are realistically the only two options.

[GP]

I think it's fair to say he won't walk away. And it's fair to say he won't be sacked.

The big question is, will he be offered a new contract, and will he take it?

I think he will be offered a contract.

And I think he'll take it.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think it's fair to say he won't walk away. And it's fair to say he won't be sacked.

The big question is, will he be offered a new contract, and will he take it?

I think he will be offered a contract.

And I think he'll take it.

My feelings too. I don't see Wenger starting out with a new club at age 67 and I don't see any sign of him wanting out of the game. So where is the only place he can get his fix? Both owners have made a point of coming out to support him, they absolutely want him here. Are they really going to be hunting around for a replacement next season? And if not and they don't have a replacement lined up then Wenger will be staying. Will they pay any attention to what the fans think or do? Only if it affects the bottom line financially and the club has pretty much sealed off that possibility given the queue waiting to buy tickets.

Something dramatic will have to happen to shift this guy. If he gets that new contract the "always see out my contract" clause will come into effect. There will be no point protesting, it will be a done deal. Next season is the one where the fans will have to step up in a big way. The last chance to shift this guy before 2020.

Delusion is an option. We could all just pretend that spending a few quid in the summer (surely the club has to concede this much at least) will make a big difference and next season will be the moment when we eventually challenge. Delusion will be the only real option for those who want to get anything back from supporting the club. It's going to be like the delusional spuds. Only worse because they are above us now.

Unless we start playing decent football on a regular basis. Maybe that could happen? Maybe we'll drop the tippy-tappy? Could that happen?

Me :pal:

[selassie]

I think it's fair to say he won't walk away. And it's fair to say he won't be sacked.

The big question is, will he be offered a new contract, and will he take it?

I think he will be offered a contract.

And I think he'll take it.

That's the reality of the situation. The title is gone now, it went a few weeks back when we lost to United and Swansea. We are not even in a race anymore so the fans have nothing to vent about so to speak, I can't see it getting as poisonous as it was a few weeks back at home to Swansea, we're resigned to a 3rd or 4th place finish and that's that.

Everything about this club now is one way, we are told the Manager is doing a good job, we are told that we need to support the team, we are told that we are being competitive, we are told that there are no players better in the market than what we have, the whole situation is a farce and I'm not going to put a penny of my money into Arsenal Football Club until it changes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

my feeling is exactly the opposite, protests won't change anything, because the majority of fans won't protest when we are winning games, and we will win enough games to finish in the top four.
The only thing to do is hope that Wenger will get back with Sonia Tatar and live out his days in sin in Paris, or open up a football academy in Mozambique.
In the last two-three years protests and fan anger has been worse than i've ever known it to be and it's changed precisely nothing.

[Power n Glory]

The two things don't necessarily contradict each other. Wenger in my view will be there as long as Kroenke wants him and the only alternative to this is if he walks away, obviously the statement "as long as Kroenke wants him" is dependent on what Wenger himself wants to do.

So when i say i genuinely don't know what will happen, i don't know whether Wenger will sign a new contract or walk away....those are realistically the only two options.

I’m not pointing out a contradiction. We’re just talking in circles. You say Wenger should go, we need new players to win the title, it’s unlikely we’ll see ether of those scenarios play out. So now what? Protesting is pointless, staying away from games is pointless….so what now?

[selassie]

my feeling is exactly the opposite, protests won't change anything, because the majority of fans won't protest when we are winning games, and we will win enough games to finish in the top four.
The only thing to do is hope that Wenger will get back with Sonia Tatar and live out his days in sin in Paris , or open up a football academy in Mozambique.
In the last two-three years protests and fan anger has been worse than i've ever known it to be and it's changed precisely nothing.

:lol: Was she his French Rapper "bit on the side"?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ah i see, well nothing is what now.....either be content with the thin gruel or find another interest. Or protest in the belief that it will change things....or hope that Wenger finishes outside the top four because the board may decide not to offer him a new contract then because it will see it has nothing to lose.

I'm not going to renew my red membership, mainly because I went to one game this season and don't want to pay out thirty quid on the off chance i might be bothered to go.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol: Was she his French Rapper "bit on the side"?

I like to write, it doesn't make me an author. She was a waitress who tried to record a rap album and would have stayed in obscurity if not for being penetrated by l'ouisseau.
According to my mate she was also knocking off Patrick Vieira and that's why there are strained relations between Wenger and Vieira.

[Gooner23]

I think fan protest could force him out, but it would have to be severe and prolonged i.e. Wenger out chants and banners at every game and mass walk outs etc. It would not be pretty but I'd have no sympathy for Wenger, providing it didn't get malicious. Very little chance of it actually happening though.

[selassie]

I like to write, it doesn't make me an author. She was a waitress who tried to record a rap album and would have stayed in obscurity if not for being penetrated by l'ouisseau.
According to my mate she was also knocking off Patrick Vieira and that's why there are strained relations between Wenger and Vieira.

:lol: Wenger played a little bit with zee handbrake on ;)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think fan protest could force him out, but it would have to be severe and prolonged i.e. Wenger out chants and banners at every game and mass walk outs etc. It would not be pretty but I'd have no sympathy for Wenger, providing it didn't get malicious. Very little chance of it actually happening though.

Every game?...you mean every away game?

And sustained?....so when results go bad, people will just blame ungrateful fans for the teams performance.

Just ask Newcastle fans how successful their protesting is.

[Letters]

You think 'new low' is an exaggeration, think about this for a minute, we were 4 points clear at the top at Christmas
No we weren't! :lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's not a new low, that would be kind of ok....this is a depressingly familiar low

[GP]

No we weren't! :lol:

When we beat Man City we were 2 points behind Leicester.

We then lost the next one to Southampton. So yeah, we weren't 4 clear at Christmas.

[Niall_Quinn]

I like to write, it doesn't make me an author. She was a waitress who tried to record a rap album and would have stayed in obscurity if not for being penetrated by l'ouisseau.
According to my mate she was also knocking off Patrick Vieira and that's why there are strained relations between Wenger and Vieira.

So he did plug the hole left by Vieira after all?

[Özim]

Poor result in the end after leading 2-0 but hey ho doesn't matter a whole lot as the title was gone a while back.

We're making a right mess of this season, Caroll with an 8 minute hattrick just shows we're as brittle as ever defensively.

I don't see where we go from here tbh, another disappointing season in a list of them and once again really nothing has changed, we're not improving, we're not adapting and we're still suffering from the same problems we had a decade ago.

Seen Wenger's interview, doesn't look too disappointed, he's happy with our resilience but considering the terrible form in the last few months he remain reasonably upbeat, almost like 4th place is good enough really.

Expecting more of the same next year.

[Power n Glory]

Every game?...you mean every away game?

And sustained?....so when results go bad, people will just blame ungrateful fans for the teams performance.

Just ask Newcastle fans how successful their protesting is.

Protesting to get Stan out probably won't work. But I can't see Wenger ignoring the fans and signing a new deal.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So he did plug the hole left by Vieira after all?

No she had to rely on internal solutions

[Niall_Quinn]

Every game?...you mean every away game?

And sustained?....so when results go bad, people will just blame ungrateful fans for the teams performance.

Just ask Newcastle fans how successful their protesting is.

Difficult to envisage a sustained protest given the stick one bloke got for raising a banner. All it would do is give Moh more opportunities to self promote I suppose.

Even so, it's the only thing that might get rid of Wenger, or at least provoke a few concessions from the leech squad. Very tough because it goes against everything the typical fan believes in. You want to cheer when you are winning but a protest that stands any chance of success will need to see the fans booing regardless of what's happening on the pitch. The protest would have to be clearly understood as being aimed at ensuring Wenger doesn't get another contract. Pointless trying to get him out the door immediately as that certainly wouldn't succeed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But I can't see Wenger ignoring the fans and signing a new deal.

Isn't that exactly what he has been doing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Protesting to get Stan out probably won't work. But I can't see Wenger ignoring the fans and signing a new deal.

He's worked pretty hard this season at defining what a fan is in his mind. Somebody who pays up and "gets behind the team" (shuts up) regardless of what's happening on the pitch seems to be his favoured definition. If there are enough "real" fans then maybe Wenger could convince himself he has the support to carry on? 2019/20 seems to be a big date for the corporate boys. If things go their way it sounds like we'll be seeing the early version of a new Euro league exclusively featuring the "big 5" flops. I can see the board wanting to carry Wenger that far at least so they can lock in their revenue streams. After that it doesn't really matter, the money will pour in regardless.

[Power n Glory]

Isn't that exactly what he has been doing.

Wenger has never experienced the fans turning on him. He's heard a few boos and groans over performances but nothing consistent. But if you keep suggesting all action is pointless we might as well just put up with it and stay quiet.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

we might as well just put up with it and stay quiet.

Well like I say people can do what they like, and my advice was definitely unsolicited but for the sake of your own sanity that's exactly what i'd suggest

[Letters]

IMO people simply not going, en masse, is a more effective protest than going along (i.e., you've bought a ticket, they have your money) and booing.
But Arsenal have far too many tourists for that to happen.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

With TV money, a loss of gate receipts just won't hit them that hard

[mastermind84]

We tried 3 CM's at the start of last season and it didn't work.

We lost one match this season with 3 CMs (better stated, Ramsey on the right) and that match was at the Bridge.

So maybe it did work? After that injuries started.

[Letters]

Less hard than it used to, but add in the loss of merchandise and food and drink bought on match day, it's a pretty significant amount of money.

[Gooner23]

Every game?...you mean every away game?

And sustained?....so when results go bad, people will just blame ungrateful fans for the teams performance.

Just ask Newcastle fans how successful their protesting is.

Newcastle protests are typically aimed at their owner. I am not talking about that, Kroenke doesn't give a fuck what's happening over this side of the pond. Doubt he even looks at our results (apart from the financial ones).

I do think sustained protest against Wenger would have some impact, we've bordered on it this season and he hasn't liked it one bit. If it was cranked up I honestly think he and Gazidis would take notice.

[Power n Glory]

With TV money, a loss of gate receipts just won't hit them that hard


:doh: Jeez!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

well i'd suggest that people don't buy merchandise, don't go in on matchday and buy food and drink but not to influence managerial change but because it's a waste of money.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Newcastle protests are typically aimed at their owner. I am not talking about that, Kroenke doesn't give a fuck what's happening over this side of the pond. Doubt he even looks at our results (apart from the financial ones).

I do think sustained protest against Wenger would have some impact, we've bordered on it this season and he hasn't liked it one bit. If it was cranked up I honestly think he and Gazidis would take notice.


1) All Wenger has done is comment on it when asked about it by journalists and he's been largely dismissive "everyone's entitled to their opinion" etc

2) There won't be a sustained protest by a majority of fans

[Gooner23]

With TV money, a loss of gate receipts just won't hit them that hard

I agree on that one, providing they can still fill some of the seats with tourists and give out the official attendance numbers its not too embarrassing for them.

But I think protests in game hits them harder as its not financially related. As previously said though, I don't think it will happen to the extent it would need to.

[selassie]

No we weren't! :lol:

My bad, we were level with Leicester, 3 points clear of City on New Years Day. For me it's totally unacceptable to have fallen so far behind? Do you agree?

[Gooner23]

I think the point is that this season has been Wenger's biggest fuck up yet.

[selassie]

I think the point is that this season has been Wenger's biggest fuck up yet.

Yep, I'm shocked some on here seem to think it's not his biggest fuck up.

[Letters]

My bad, we were level with Leicester, 3 points clear of City on New Years Day. For me it's totally unacceptable to have fallen so far behind? Do you agree?

We were, fleetingly, 2 points clear.
IMO the moment I snapped was the run after Valentine's Day. We'd been wobbling but the win over Leicester that day put us 2 points behind them.
Then we lost to an embarrassingly depleted ManYoo side and then lost to Swansea at home :doh:

So yes, that is unacceptable and that's why I think Wenger should go. But that doesn't mean I think EVERY SINGLE THING he does or says it wrong or ridiculous. But he's clearly not going to push us on any further so we need to find someone who can.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It really isn't though, it's default Wenger....who we finish behind is totally irrelevant, whether it big spending city or Chelsea....or a complete outlier in Leicester....the same mistakes are made, the collapses happen at the same time.....so the fact that our usual rivals have fallen by the wayside is irrelevant.
All it proves is that it doesn't matter who finishes above us, the reason we haven't finished any higher than third since 2005 is because the manager is not capable of it.

[Power n Glory]

IMO people simply not going, en masse, is a more effective protest than going along (i.e., you've bought a ticket, they have your money) and booing.
But Arsenal have far too many tourists for that to happen.

I think it's all effective. It hits the pockets whilst also creating awareness. If you choose not to go to games it's something but if you choose to go but won't buy merchandise or even throw up a banner or boo after a game it's something other than just saying nothing at all.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yep, I'm shocked some on here seem to think it's not his biggest fuck up.

There are a lot of fuck-ups to choose from, so maybe some people are lost in a sea of fuck-ups and can't make a concrete judgement. Rivalry with the spuds does seem a bit small time, or spudish, but finishing below that lot really does mark a significant downturn in the club's fortunes. This during a period where we're supposed to be enjoying the new financial strength that bloody stadium move was, allegedly, designed to provide. None of the people running this club have anywhere to hide. This is a massive, epic, fuck-up.

[Letters]

The ideal scenario is for him to leave at the end of the season. I still think he could do that with his head held fairly high. As much as a balls up as this season has been, he won us a couple of cups recently, he'd leave us with a good squad and money in the bank to add to it where needed. I just hope he doesn't stay till things get really ugly although I fear he will.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think it's all effective. It hits the pockets whilst also creating awareness. If you choose not to go to games it's something but if you choose to go but won't buy merchandise or even throw up a banner or boo after a game it's something other than just saying nothing at all.

What's likely to happen is the divide in the fan base will deepen and we'll end up fighting each other more than we fight Wenger and the board. I bet we'll see a fightback from the Wenger crowd. They'll have a whole summer to come up with a bunch of new excuses and a renewed defence. This will piss off the Wenger out crowd so much it will all turn vicious. Already seeing it around the interweb. We've seen the media make up stories about fans physically fighting. They might not need to invent stuff next season.

[Özim]

That Moh guy on AFTV makes me laugh, he was saying it's all about making inroads we've gained a point and if both teams lose on Sunday it's a point gained, it followed that both teams won on Sunday and we fell further behind.

Ty is funny too he just wants Wenger here regardless of what happens.

[Özim]

What's likely to happen is the divide in the fan base will deepen and we'll end up fighting each other more than we fight Wenger and the board. I bet we'll see a fightback from the Wenger crowd. They'll have a whole summer to come up with a bunch of new excuses and a renewed defence. This will piss off the Wenger out crowd so much it will all turn vicious. Already seeing it around the interweb. We've seen the media make up stories about fans physically fighting. They might not need to invent stuff next season.

Pretty much, the Wenger fans will have him here regardless and always point to other reasons for the problems we have, the last 10 years has seemingly taught them nothing about him.

I don't really understand how they can be so convinced he's the be all and end all when he's made so many glaring errors in the last decade, errors even the average fan wouldn't have made.

In reality there's very little pressure on Wenger to deliver success or to leave, if you look at the overall picture there's still very few protests, the feeling is more one of resignation at the fact there's nothing we can do, it is what it is, nothing is going to change, he'll leave when he wants to, the money men want to keep him here. It's almost like the club have convinced them there's no real option, much like a dictatorship.

[Niall_Quinn]

The ideal scenario is for him to leave at the end of the season. I still think he could do that with his head held fairly high. As much as a balls up as this season has been, he won us a couple of cups recently, he'd leave us with a good squad and money in the bank to add to it where needed. I just hope he doesn't stay till things get really ugly although I fear he will.

He could and he probably would. I'd applaud him if he walked now and let somebody else get on with it. And I'd give him due credit for what he's achieved here and that's how I'd prefer to remember him. It would be legitimate too because if somebody asked me to swap the incredible football I enjoyed in Wenger's early years for his exit in, say, 2011, I wouldn't. That period when we took football to such heights can never be forgotten.

But he's already said he's staying. He's heading into a potentially catastrophic new season in terms of support from the fans. If he changes his ways, gets active in the transfer market and switches his full attention to the pitch then he could rescue things and set up a departure on his own terms come 2017. But if he intends to stick stubbornly to his guns he's got one hell of a year coming up and for all the wrong reasons. And I guess we already know he'll stick to his guns. So here we go. It's not going to be pretty.

[Power n Glory]

What's likely to happen is the divide in the fan base will deepen and we'll end up fighting each other more than we fight Wenger and the board. I bet we'll see a fightback from the Wenger crowd. They'll have a whole summer to come up with a bunch of new excuses and a renewed defence. This will piss off the Wenger out crowd so much it will all turn vicious. Already seeing it around the interweb. We've seen the media make up stories about fans physically fighting. They might not need to invent stuff next season.

I can see that happening as well. I can’t agree with the majority of what Ty says on Arsenal Fan TV but what I saw this weekend after the match was a bit much. Guy looked like he was about to get jumped by Claude’s gang whilst doing an interview. :lol: A slight exaggeration but it’s not what I want to see.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That Moh guy on AFTV makes me laugh, he was saying it's all about making inroads we've gained a point and if both teams lose on Sunday it's a point gained, it followed that both teams won on Sunday and we fell further behind.

Ty is funny too he just wants Wenger here regardless of what happens.

It actually annoyed me Claude shouting behind Ty's back, of course Ty is talking nonsense and of course he has no reason for Wenger to stay other than emotional but he's entitled to his view no matter how moronic.

I agree a lot with Moh about the money situation, but at the same time he seems to think the greedy, unambitious board seems to make Wenger not at fault. Whilst i think changing the manager will not bring about the change in the clubs' fortunes many think it will because i think it has to be both...Wenger, Kroenke and Usmanov all have to go.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I can see that happening as well. I can’t agree with the majority of what Ty says on Arsenal Fan TV but what I saw this weekend after the match was a bit much. Guy looked like he was about to get jumped by Claude’s gang whilst doing an interview. :lol: A slight exaggeration but it’s not what I want to see.

Totally agree....

[Marc Overmars]

The ideal scenario is for him to leave at the end of the season. I still think he could do that with his head held fairly high. As much as a balls up as this season has been, he won us a couple of cups recently, he'd leave us with a good squad and money in the bank to add to it where needed. I just hope he doesn't stay till things get really ugly although I fear he will.

That's the saddest thing. He's going to leave to under a huge cloud of discontent and it really shouldn't have been like this.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well it needs to be ruled out completely that he will ever be sacked, that will simply never happen.

So whatever the feeling towards him when he does leave, it will still be spun like he's gone out on a high and will walk away from the Emirates for the last time to the tune of "My Way" by Frank Sinatra ringing in everyone's ears....there won't be a dry eye in the house.

[Özim]

It actually annoyed me Claude shouting behind Ty's back, of course Ty is talking nonsense and of course he has no reason for Wenger to stay other than emotional but he's entitled to his view no matter how moronic.

I agree a lot with Moh about the money situation, but at the same time he seems to think the greedy, unambitious board seems to make Wenger not at fault. Whilst i think changing the manager will not bring about the change in the clubs' fortunes many think it will because i think it has to be both...Wenger, Kroenke and Usmanov all have to go.

Ty can have his say, but it really doesn't make any sense, he see's the collapses time and time again and acknowledges them but then maintains Wenger is still the man to bring back success, he does also more often have an excuse for poor results.

Moh sometimes makes some valid points but I agree, he points the finger at the owner and absolves Wenger of any responsibility, that's despite finding holes in quite a number of AW's decisions, Kroenke isn't the one that picks the teams or tactics or selects the players to be signed.

[Özim]

That's the saddest thing. He's going to leave to under a huge cloud of discontent and it really shouldn't have been like this.

I don't feel sad for him, mainly because he's dimisses the fans opinions at the drop of a hat and shows no real loyalty to them and goes so far as to point the finger at them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ty can have his say, but it really doesn't make any sense, he see's the collapses time and time again and acknowledges them but then maintains Wenger is still the man to bring back success, he does also more often have an excuse for poor results.

Moh sometimes makes some valid points but I agree, he points the finger at the owner and absolves Wenger of any responsibility, that's despite finding holes in quite a number of AW's decisions, Kroenke isn't the one that picks the teams or tactics or selects the players to be signed.

What he says makes no sense of course he seems to have Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to Wenger, the broad consensus is that the guy is a muppet but Claude is an even bigger one. Ty doesn't interrupt him when he says his piece, and even though what Ty says is irrational nonsense it's Claude who clearly has the mental health issues.....it seems to be a grotesque circus act that he is invited to speak on AFTV....it really is like Howard Beale in Network.

[selassie]

We were, fleetingly, 2 points clear.
IMO the moment I snapped was the run after Valentine's Day. We'd been wobbling but the win over Leicester that day put us 2 points behind them.
Then we lost to an embarrassingly depleted ManYoo side and then lost to Swansea at home :doh:

So yes, that is unacceptable and that's why I think Wenger should go. But that doesn't mean I think EVERY SINGLE THING he does or says it wrong or ridiculous. But he's clearly not going to push us on any further so we need to find someone who can.

Fair play, even if I do think you are nit picking.

Who said anything about Wenger getting everything wrong?! You are at again, throwing in things that havent been said.

[Marc Overmars]

Well it needs to be ruled out completely that he will ever be sacked, that will simply never happen.

So whatever the feeling towards him when he does leave, it will still be spun like he's gone out on a high and will walk away from the Emirates for the last time to the tune of "My Way" by Frank Sinatra ringing in everyone's ears....there won't be a dry eye in the house.

No one except for Ty will be shedding any tears for him.

Respect will be shown but everyone will also breathe a collective sigh of relief when he calls it a day. He passed up the opportunity to ride off into the sunset in peace by signing this current deal. It was win the league or bust, we all said it.

[Letters]

Who said anything about Wenger getting everything wrong?!
No-one specifically said that, it's just the general mood on this place.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I've called him incompetent, an idiot, an imbecile, an arrogant fool, a stubborn old goat. I've even defined the terms and each is entirely appropriate given his performance levels, his repetitious mistakes, his failure to learn from or even accept those mistakes and his obvious disdain for the fans. I stick by all of it because the facts support what I'm saying.

What have you been saying? He can't compete because other clubs have more money, he's done as well as can be expected because other clubs have more money, there was no point trying to finish as high as possible last season because the title had already gone, he's bought Ozil and Alexis so ignore the fact he didn't strengthen last summer and blew another title, Wenger can be excused because the chavs fucked up, Wenger may have been embarrassed but so have the gypos. Always the excuse.

Bile - anger, bitterness, or irritability. Plenty of fans feeling all of those things right now I would say. And apathy - which comes after anger in many cases. I'll own that. Fans should be angry when the club they support retains a manager who has no ambition. What's the point of competitive sport without ambition?

Bullshit - talk nonsense to (someone) in an attempt to deceive them. Well we have what I'm saying, we have Wenger's record, and we have the bullshit apologies you're shovelling.
:bow: :gp:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No one except for Ty will be shedding any tears for him.

Respect will be shown but everyone will also breathe a collective sigh of relief when he calls it a day.

People are fickle, if Wenger actually announced he was going to go. You'd notice the mood on here change in an instant....i don't mean wanting him to stay but the negative remarks would all stop, it's not to say they are unjustified because they patently are. But the frustration with Wenger is mainly because they don't see any end in sight to his management.

And it will i imagine be emotional, the guy has been here twenty years.....people in prison get institutionalised and there are fans of the club who have never known another manager. Don Howe was manager when i was born, but to be honest i only have vague recollection of anyone but Wenger.

[Özim]

If he walked away acknowledging he can't take us any further people would thank him for all the great things he's done and that would be the end of it, it's his refusal to acknowledge that anything is wrong that is irritating, since he doesn't recognise anything is really not right, he's never going to see the need to improve anything.

I feel his arrogance about how secure his position is can be grating too, it feels like he's sticking two fingers up at the fan and saying I'll stay here as long as I want and there's nothing you or anyone can do about it and the laughing at them.

It's things like this that just don't endear him to some fans, if he was a bit more humble opinions might be a bit different.

[Letters]

:bow: :gp:
:lol: It's a terrible post, NQ knows it's a complete twisting of what I've said. It didn't deserve a response.

[Marc Overmars]

People are fickle, if Wenger actually announced he was going to go. You'd notice the mood on here change in an instant....i don't mean wanting him to stay but the negative remarks would all stop, it's not to say they are unjustified because they patently are. But the frustration with Wenger is mainly because they don't see any end in sight to his management.

And it will i imagine be emotional, the guy has been here twenty years.....people in prison get institutionalised and there are fans of the club who have never known another manager. Don Howe was manager when i was born, but to be honest i only have vague recollection of anyone but Wenger.

It would be a time of sentimental reflection, so yeah I'm sure the mood would change but it doesn't mean all the enmity he created himself would forgiven, these lamentable years would have to be mentioned along with the glory years in his eulogies. Wenger is pretty much all I've ever known so I'll be sad because I never imagined it would end with these feelings of regret, but sad that he's actually going? No.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It would be a time of sentimental reflection, so yeah I'm sure the mood would change but it doesn't mean all the enmity he created himself would forgiven, these lamentable years would have to be mentioned along with the glory years in his eulogies. Wenger is pretty much all I've ever known so I'll be sad because I never imagined it would end with these feelings of regret, but sad that he's actually going? No.

I never said people would be sad that he's going, i just think there will be a mawkish sentimentality regarding his departure when he does go.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If he walked away acknowledging he can't take us any further people would thank him for all the great things he's done and that would be the end of it, it's his refusal to acknowledge that anything is wrong that is irritating, since he doesn't recognise anything is really not right, he's never going to see the need to improve anything.

I feel his arrogance about how secure his position is can be grating too, it feels like he's sticking two fingers up at the fan and saying I'll stay here as long as I want and there's nothing you or anyone can do about it and the laughing at them.

It's things like this that just don't endear him to some fans, if he was a bit more humble opinions might be a bit different.

Perhaps but i often get the impression that his haughtiness is often directed at the journalists who claim to be acting as the mouthpiece of the fans

If i was a manager i would acknowledge absolutely no failings in press conferences whatsoever, so you never know it could be what Wenger actually thinks it could be that + he has to present an image of inscrutability. I think there is an element that feels he is owed a bit more respect because he feels he has kept things ticking over despite a difficult period of transition and yes if he was prepared to acknowledge that he was making mistakes you would see changes in his approach, and whilst there have been changes it's always done like For Example oh well i got my side to defend deep and play on the counter against city so that will work against every big side away from home and i don't have to adapt my approach depending on who i play.
But on the other hand he hinted quite openly that he may well have walked away in 2014 had he not won the FA cup, and whilst the offer from the club was there waiting for him to sign he did not sign the contract until after we won. So there is perhaps something there to suggest that he may choose to not sign a new contract even if one is offered to him.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'll tell you who will be sad when Wenger finally leaves. Opposition fans. Many of them have the same sort of attitude to Wenger as Ferguson had when Wenger ceased to be a threat. They'll be graceful on the one hand but thinking "shit!" in private. As worried as we are happy when the glass ceiling is eventually removed. And for all those mancs and scousers in the past who said we were spoiled and they happily have Wenger at their club, I wonder will they feel the same if Wenger really does end up hunting around for a new challenge?

[Kano]

Perhaps but i often get the impression that his haughtiness is often directed at the journalists who claim to be acting as the mouthpiece of the fans

If i was a manager i would acknowledge absolutely no failings in press conferences whatsoever, so you never know it could be what Wenger actually thinks it could be that + he has to present an image of inscrutability. I think there is an element that feels he is owed a bit more respect because he feels he has kept things ticking over despite a difficult period of transition and yes if he was prepared to acknowledge that he was making mistakes you would see changes in his approach, and whilst there have been changes it's always done like For Example oh well i got my side to defend deep and play on the counter against city so that will work against every big side away from home and i don't have to adapt my approach depending on who i play.
But on the other hand he hinted quite openly that he may well have walked away in 2014 had he not won the FA cup, and whilst the offer from the club was there waiting for him to sign he did not sign the contract until after we won. So there is perhaps something there to suggest that he may choose to not sign a new contract even if one is offered to him.

In part, like LVG, I understand why he treats the press with contempt for bothering him with their bullshit so they can generate their next batch of clicks. Doing any job for thirty years and having to justify yourself to a room full of people who will shake your hand and stab you in the back with the other wouldn't be anyone's idea of fun. They just write a bunch of shit and he lives and breathes it.

But. Wenger has to appreciate that these press conferences and after game interviews are the only direct fans get to hear what he thinks about the team and their performances. Sure, he's always been the perfect politician type, fencing off questions, giving back neutered answers that don't mean much but if he cannot react to the frustration rising in the terraces with anything different, then the frustration will only grow. He is a man that constantly talks about intelligence but at the moment he doesn't seem to be showing too much of that himself right now. That's if he cares about the growing chorus of boo's that is.

[Power n Glory]

Perhaps but i often get the impression that his haughtiness is often directed at the journalists who claim to be acting as the mouthpiece of the fans

If i was a manager i would acknowledge absolutely no failings in press conferences whatsoever, so you never know it could be what Wenger actually thinks it could be that + he has to present an image of inscrutability. I think there is an element that feels he is owed a bit more respect because he feels he has kept things ticking over despite a difficult period of transition and yes if he was prepared to acknowledge that he was making mistakes you would see changes in his approach, and whilst there have been changes it's always done like For Example oh well i got my side to defend deep and play on the counter against city so that will work against every big side away from home and i don't have to adapt my approach depending on who i play.
But on the other hand he hinted quite openly that he may well have walked away in 2014 had he not won the FA cup, and whilst the offer from the club was there waiting for him to sign he did not sign the contract until after we won. So there is perhaps something there to suggest that he may choose to not sign a new contract even if one is offered to him.

I don't think it's a front for the press. I think he's out of touch with the fans. His comments about ticket prices, transfers, the atmosphere around the ground with fans somehow affecting the teams confidence....it all points to a man out of touch.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I just find it interesting that the comments you mention mirror exactly the attitude of the board, when that old fart Hill-Wood was knocking about he used to tell us we were ungrateful plebs.
But importantly in a press conference even if he thought the fans were justified he's not going to admit it, and I wouldn't if i was a manager.
I personally think he knows he has fouled up, what makes him a bad manager is that he doesn't know why it has happened.

[selassie]

If he walked away acknowledging he can't take us any further people would thank him for all the great things he's done and that would be the end of it, it's his refusal to acknowledge that anything is wrong that is irritating, since he doesn't recognise anything is really not right, he's never going to see the need to improve anything.

I feel his arrogance about how secure his position is can be grating too, it feels like he's sticking two fingers up at the fan and saying I'll stay here as long as I want and there's nothing you or anyone can do about it and the laughing at them.

It's things like this that just don't endear him to some fans, if he was a bit more humble opinions might be a bit different.

Aye, I'd be the same Zim and feel the same about the current situation.

[selassie]

I just find it interesting that the comments you mention mirror exactly the attitude of the board, when that old fart Hill-Wood was knocking about he used to tell us we were ungrateful plebs.
But importantly in a press conference even if he thought the fans were justified he's not going to admit it, and I wouldn't if i was a manager.
I personally think he knows he has fouled up, what makes him a bad manager is that he doesn't know why it has happened.

I agree but I'm not so sure he doesn't know why, I think he knows why but is too pig headed to admit it. It's his way or the highway.

He's not going to change, he's what 66? I highly doubt he's going to change now or adapt to the point of having to completely change the way he works.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Possibly but the fact is Arsenal have undergone changes under him, but it's a bit like when he replaces the front wheel the back one falls off....he's too slow to adapt.

And I agree that he's too old now

I just hope that if he does go end of next season, we don't bring in Roberto Martinez

[Power n Glory]

I just find it interesting that the comments you mention mirror exactly the attitude of the board, when that old fart Hill-Wood was knocking about he used to tell us we were ungrateful plebs.
But importantly in a press conference even if he thought the fans were justified he's not going to admit it, and I wouldn't if i was a manager.
I personally think he knows he has fouled up, what makes him a bad manager is that he doesn't know why it has happened.

I’ve always made that connection. It’s not even a case where I think he’s playing politics in the press. Even if he thought the fans were justified, there are ways to handle it in the press without saying all he says.

[fakeyank]

I only have one hope this season.. Leicester 1st, Tottenham 2nd. We can come 3rd or 4th or 7th... I frankly dont care as long as Leicester wins it and Tottenham finishes ahead of us.

I dont care that Spurs finish ahead of us.. to me, the team I dislike the most is Chelsea and if Tottenham finishing ahead of us means means 0.01% of extra pressure on Wenger, then I am all for it. I dont want any morally superior cup or 4th place trophy. Something needs to give at this club, and may be, just may be our shitty neighbors showing us up with less resources will wake the cunts in the boardroom to fire our 'world class' fool.

[Letters]

I dont care that Spurs finish ahead of us.
That's because you don't live in England.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I only have one hope this season..

Same, I hope Wenger is made to dance in the centre circle to "Intergalactic" by the Beastie Boys, and mouth the robot lyrics which can be seen on the big screens.

[GP]

Same, I hope Wenger is made to dance in the centre circle to "Intergalactic" by the Beastie Boys, and mouth the robot lyrics which can be seen on the big screens.

He could be a full-time replacement for MCA.

[Letters]

Same, I hope Wenger is made to dance in the centre circle to "Intergalactic" by the Beastie Boys, and mouth the robot lyrics which can be seen on the big screens.

Or maybe we could adopt Danny Baker's idea (originally aimed at the players, but works for both) of them all lining up in the centre circle after home games with wheelbarrows and their salaries given to them in cash while the crowd are still there and able to react accordingly.

The lap of 'honour' after the Villa game will be...interesting.

[fakeyank]

That's because you don't live in England.

I am sure a lifelong fan can take some banter from the scums for the greater good of the club!

[Munchies]

I am sure a lifelong fan can take some banter from the scums for the greater good of the club!

:gp:

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cfx4UlUW8AEi0t7.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

Or maybe we could adopt Danny Baker's idea (originally aimed at the players, but works for both) of them all lining up in the centre circle after home games with wheelbarrows and their salaries given to them in cash while the crowd are still there and able to react accordingly.

The lap of 'honour' after the Villa game will be...interesting.

Considering we've had players complaining about being slaves because they couldn't get out of one multi-million quid contract to move to an even bigger one, breaking their contract in the process, I doubt we'll entice them into publicly displaying how much they are robbing for their declining talents.


One of the greatest footballers in English history has left just £115,415 in his will – less than half the £300,000 that Wayne Rooney earns in a week. Sir Tom Finney, who died aged 91 in February (2014), spent his entire career at Preston North End, scoring 220 goals from 1946 until 1960. He also won 76 caps as an England forward, scoring 30 goals for his country and playing in three World Cups from 1950 to 1958. He supplemented his meagre wages – capped at £20 a week for all footballers until 1961 – by working as a plumber, earning himself the nickname ‘the Preston Plumber’.

[Letters]

I am sure a lifelong fan can take some banter from the scums for the greater good of the club!

It isn't for the greater good of the club.

[Özim]

When Wenger finally leaves and Arsenal win the league

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cfc3RMAXEAEGZxU.jpg

:haha:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

:lol: It's a terrible post, NQ knows it's a complete twisting of what I've said. It didn't deserve a response.

It's not really though, is it letters. From what I've read of both of your posts recently, NQ couldn't have hit the head more accurately if he tried :lol:

[fakeyank]

It isn't for the greater good of the club.

Pressure on our manager and/or board to perform better isnt a good thing? You think the status quo is going to change any other way? I am all ears..

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What pressure from who?

[Xhaka Can’t]

With the TV deal, the reliance on full houses (which they'll probably get anyway) is less than ever.

[Power n Glory]

With the TV deal, the reliance on full houses (which they'll probably get anyway) is less than ever.

That’s the thought process that humbled Serie A. If fans started walking away from the stadium so would the corporate sponsors. Clubs can’t get too dependent on the TV money because those contracts won’t last forever and if that’s there only source of income, we could be looking at a Serie A situation. It’s similar to the foreign investment argument that sparked FFP. Imagine if the sponsorship money slowed up and clubs started neglecting the fans and stadiums? Brands follow the consumers and I can’t see sponsors coughing up more money for renewals if attendance figures start dropping.

[Özim]

I also think empty stadiums don't paint a great picture of the game on television, TV wants full stadiums for atmosphere and appearances, emtpy stadiums will make it look like a club isn't popular and make it less attractive to pay for.

[Letters]

It's not really though, is it letters. From what I've read of both of your posts recently, NQ couldn't have hit the head more accurately if he tried :lol:

Not only did he miss the head, he missed the rest of me too.
Deliberately, though. :good:

[Letters]

Pressure on our manager and/or board to perform better isnt a good thing? You think the status quo is going to change any other way? I am all ears..

Pressure is a good thing but that is not going to come about because we finish below Spurs.
Have you seen the mood on this place? You think us hauling ourselves above the Spuds will placate people? Balls, will it.
Sod finishing below them, if we can finish above them then let's.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I am indifferent to finishing above Spurs because it is not a real achievement of any sort, but i also agree that finishing below them won't make any difference to the pressure Wenger is under....he is under none now and he will be under none if we finish below them.

[Letters]

You know that keeping on saying something which isn't true doesn't make it true, right? :unsure:

[Marc Overmars]

I am indifferent to finishing above Spurs because it is not a real achievement of any sort, but i also agree that finishing below them won't make any difference to the pressure Wenger is under....he is under none now and he will be under none if we finish below them.

It's not and never has been an achievement.

But they're our local rivals, so why wouldn't you want one up on them so to speak? It's just a bit of fun. The game has really gone to the dogs if the tribal nature of the fans has been stripped away too.

[Kano]

You know that keeping on saying something which isn't true doesn't make it true, right? :unsure:

http://millenniumcitycleaning.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ironing-service.jpg

[Letters]

The difference is, the things I'm saying are right :cool:
Of course he's under pressure, even if not the kind of pressure the fans want him to be under.
To say he's under "none" is balls, no matter how many times you say it :tiphat:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So you are choosing to be a pedant by pointing out that he's under pressure to finish in the top four.

And I am not even convinced that he's under that much pressure to even achieve that, the board have said we could survive outside of the champions league for at least a season.

There is pressure in the sense that i am under pressure to turn up for work every day in order to justify my company paying me, and there is tangible pressure.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Im also under constant pressure that in an oxygen rich atmosphere that if i don't inhale and exhale i will die from asphyxia and it will be uncomfortable because of the retention of carbon dioxide.....

[Niall_Quinn]

The difference is, the things I'm saying are right :cool:
Of course he's under pressure, even if not the kind of pressure the fans want him to be under.
To say he's under "none" is balls, no matter how many times you say it :tiphat:

He's under zero pressure where it counts, the attitude of his bosses. They have both rushed out to say they want him to stay forever. It seems to matter not one bit whether he extracts the maximum from the resources at his disposal, the owners are happy provided he hits the minimums and so is the manager it seems. Otherwise he would have been screaming for investment to boost the squad going into the season, like any normal manager.

Is he under the day to day pressures of managing a football club? Sure. Every manager is. But he has a pretty damn comfortable time of it given the unwavering support he gets compared to, say, a Pellegrini or van Gaal. Maureen has already gone, as we know.

Wenger may have the hardest job in football considering the sheer scope he has taken upon himself. That's his choice though. Undoubtedly he has the easiest job in football in terms of what he's expected to achieve on the pitch. The fact it's acceptable to our owners to finish below Leicester this season says it all. They couldn't give a fuck if we win a title and in the grand scheme of things and judged on his actions, neither does Wenger.

The whole club needs a shake up from top to bottom. The complacency and lack of ambition is rancid.

[Niall_Quinn]

So you are choosing to be a pedant by pointing out that he's under pressure to finish in the top four.

And I am not even convinced that he's under that much pressure to even achieve that, the board have said we could survive outside of the champions league for at least a season.

There is pressure in the sense that i am under pressure to turn up for work every day in order to justify my company paying me, and there is tangible pressure.

Gazidis already covered that one off, didn't he? Plenty of cash apparently, even if we lose our grip on that coveted trophy. These guys, manager included, have turned the club into a laughing stock from a sporting point of view and a highly coveted stock from a financial point of view. That's the bottom line. They say they give a shit and want to win things. Yeah right. I could sit in my Suzuki Swift really, really, really wanting to win a drag race against a Porsche. Deep down though I know I should have arrived in a Ferrari, but hell, think of all the money I saved and the fuel economy I'm getting. There's no pressure when everything is humming along precisely according to plan and with barely a flicker of variation. I'm surprised any of them turn up as this thing runs on rails.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm surprised any of them turn up as this thing runs on rails.

It's a bit like having shares in a Michelin star Restaurant, you are not turning up to keep an eye on the books...it's just no one makes Moules Mariniere the way this particular chef does.

[selassie]

I am indifferent to finishing above Spurs because it is not a real achievement of any sort, but i also agree that finishing below them won't make any difference to the pressure Wenger is under....he is under none now and he will be under none if we finish below them.

Feel the same, don't get me wrong i want us to finish above them and am still praying that they don't win the league but it won't make a difference to us if we finish above or below them.

I've pretty much given up caring full stop.

[Letters]

So you are choosing to be a pedant by pointing out that he's under pressure to finish in the top four.
You said he's under no pressure. It's not pedantic to say that's balls. It's obviously balls. He's meeting his employer's targets and is under pressure to deliver them.
And even if the targets aren't what the fans would like, keeping us in the top 4 year after year, if that it is his target, doesn't give him loads of room for error.
If he was under pressure to simply keep us in the PL then I'd agree that's as good as no pressure for a club like Arsenal, but we certainly have no divine right to stay in the top 4 and as Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea are finding, staying there even with huge resources isn't that simple.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Like I said......I am under pressure to turn up for work every day.....that's not pressure that's just a basic obligation.
So if you want to be completely literal than what i said is incorrect, but in any tangible meaning of the word pressure no he's under no pressure, and unless you have undiagnosed aspergers you are in fact being a pedant.

[Letters]

You think the pressure to finish top 4 is no pressure? Really? As I said, it doesn't give much scope for error.

[Gooner23]

Highly doubt he is under any real pressure. He has unwavering support from the board / owner regardless of results.

[Gooner23]

ps who gives a fuck about 4th. We have plenty of money in the bank and have been atrocious in the champions league for years now, it's nothing to be that proud about.

[Power n Glory]

I can't understand why he hasn't set a standard for himself. When you earn legendary status at this level it shouldn't take an outsiders influence to drive you. His own ego and will to win should be pushing him along. Where is his pride? Where's the sporting ambition? It's why former players leave to go to other clubs. It would burn them up not to try and win all they can. I just don't get Wenger.

[Letters]

ps who gives a fuck about 4th.
And I quote "Top 4s Our Everything"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c55-KbNcXKE

:lol:

And yes, that should not be the limit of our ambitions. But like it or not it has become important to many clubs and fans.

[Letters]

I can't understand why he hasn't set a standard for himself. When you earn legendary status at this level it shouldn't take an outsiders influence to drive you. His own ego and will to win should be pushing him along. Where is his pride? Where's the sporting ambition? It's why former players leave to go to other clubs. It would burn them up not to try and win all they can. I just don't get Wenger.

I don't think it's a lack of drive or desire on his part, he gets pretty darn sulky when things aren't going our way.
I don't think he's able to push us on further but I don't think it's because he's not interested in doing so.
Regardless of pressure from the board, I think he puts himself under a lot of pressure.

[Gooner23]

Up until this season I agreed with the part about putting himself under pressure and hating to lose. But now I'm really not convinced, every season he handicaps himself by leaving areas of the squad short and every season he watches the same mistakes being made regardless who's on the pitch. If he cared that much about winning he'd do everything in his power to address that.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think it's a lack of drive or desire on his part, he gets pretty darn sulky when things aren't going our way.
I don't think he's able to push us on further but I don't think it's because he's not interested in doing so.
Regardless of pressure from the board, I think he puts himself under a lot of pressure.

Do we really know if the losses effect Wenger in the same way they used to? I can't really be sure because I don't see it. Also, it seems like the desire to save money overrides his desire to win the title. Going without signing an outfield player this summer is one example. Going so long without the Prem title and zero CL cups next to his name should be enough to drive him to spend and do what it takes to win the league. He doesn't have it in him and he's way to comfortable with the criticism.

[Letters]

Do we really know if the losses effect Wenger in the same way they used to? I can't really be sure because I don't see it. Also, it seems like the desire to save money overrides his desire to win the title. Going without signing an outfield player this summer is one example. Going so long without the Prem title and zero CL cups next to his name should be enough to drive him to spend and do what it takes to win the league. He doesn't have it in him and he's way to comfortable with the criticism.
My only basis (apart from how damn sulky he looks and acts) is a David Dein interview where he said they still go out for dinner after every home game, unless we've lost in which case they don't as Wenger's no company at all when we've lost. So yeah, I think from that we can conclude he feels it. Whether he's able to do anything about it...well, it seems not. It'll be interesting to see what he does this summer. Maybe he will just go mental and spend big. Not holding my breath.

[Gooner23]

My take is that yes he probably does hate to lose during the game and immediately after. But bigger picture he will happily consign defeat to a distant memory and longer term it doesn't affect him as much as it probably should.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My only basis (apart from how damn sulky he looks and acts) is a David Dein interview where he said they still go out for dinner after every home game, unless we've lost in which case they don't as Wenger's no company at all when we've lost. So yeah, I think from that we can conclude he feels it. Whether he's able to do anything about it...well, it seems not. It'll be interesting to see what he does this summer. Maybe he will just go mental and spend big. Not holding my breath.


The perception amongst fans and i accept that perception isn't always fact that someone who is driven to achieve will do everything in their power to achieve, but that doesn't appear evident with Wenger. I think he wants to win on his own terms and his post match interviews at times suggests that he has become too accustomed to failure for it to have the same impact on him as locking himself in his office when he was at Highbury.
Take the Southampton 4-0 game for example, he has a fixed smirk in the post match interview and pretty much stated "oh well, the referee made it impossible for us to win the game", now forgetting for a moment that he shouldn't be thinking that anyway because that game was probably the worst Arsenal performance I've seen under Wenger in terms of both defence and going forward, but shouldn't he be as a driven man seething with anger even if he thinks the result is down to clear injustices.
That's not the body language of a man who is going to be restless all evening and be kicking the proverbial cat, this is a man who is going to go home have a glass of wine and go to bed with a clear head.

Is that the same Wenger who almost engaged in fisticuffs with Ferguson after the 2-0 defeat at Old Trafford in 2004?

[Niall_Quinn]

My only basis (apart from how damn sulky he looks and acts) is a David Dein interview where he said they still go out for dinner after every home game, unless we've lost in which case they don't as Wenger's no company at all when we've lost. So yeah, I think from that we can conclude he feels it. Whether he's able to do anything about it...well, it seems not. It'll be interesting to see what he does this summer. Maybe he will just go mental and spend big. Not holding my breath.

That was a long time ago. More recent evidence, going a decade without coming close to a title , suggests his appetite for winning has at least diminished. Or vanished. He makes no secret about his priorities. Finish top 4. Keep the finances in order. Leave behind something to build on, except he won't leave.

[fakeyank]

Pressure is a good thing but that is not going to come about because we finish below Spurs.
Have you seen the mood on this place? You think us hauling ourselves above the Spuds will placate people? Balls, will it.
Sod finishing below them, if we can finish above them then let's.

How do we know there wont be pressure on the board and manager if we finish below Spurs? We have done the same thing i.e. finish above Spurs and get top 4 for the last 11 years, how is a continuation of the status quo going to put any pressure on these people?

To me, finishing above them wont placate the fans, but finishing below them will definitely infuriate them a lot more. May be that'll give the Arsenal fans to show some real anger towards the board and the manager, rather than fighting among themselves outside the stadium and on the internet.

IMO, majority Arsenal fans are just as ball-less as the board and will probably not do a thing if we finish below Spurs, but if there is a 0.01% chance that this will lead to any added pressure on the banager (board + manager) then I am all for it. I am sick and tired of the same routine every season..

[Xhaka Can’t]

What do you do, other than maintain a wardrobe with more Arsenal gear than the average Club shop and go to an Arsenal match every time you're in London?

[fakeyank]

What do you do, other than maintain a wardrobe with more Arsenal gear than the average Club shop and go to an Arsenal match every time you're in London?

Rant on the internet trying to wake up people to the atrocities of the board/manager. I cannot do much more from here. I dont know how many on here remember but it was me 4-5 years back when I said that fans should take banners to the stadium asking for the banager to get this shit sorted. Now that idea is picking up steam among some of the fans. You can be assured that if I lived in London, I'd be the loser who would be holding up banners.

I could do more of not going to another club game and frankly I dont want to anymore either. I didnt even want to go this year, but Mrs. FY wanted to see Rosicky in his last year, and that fucker broke down after 19 minutes of his comeback! What a waste!

As for the gear, the problem is partly mine* but mostly my friends & family... they know that giving 'something related' to Arsenal is the safe gift for me.

*- My recent jersey is the first one I personally purchased since 2007.

[Letters]

That was a long time ago. More recent evidence, going a decade without coming close to a title , suggests his appetite for winning has at least diminished. Or vanished. He makes no secret about his priorities. Finish top 4. Keep the finances in order. Leave behind something to build on, except he won't leave.

It wasn't that long, it was 2 years ago, in the run-up to the 1000th game (the less said about which, the better)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgPGTWPiMzc

That comment is about 16 minutes in, he also talks about the stadium move and how it affected our finances.
Gives you more of an insight into what the man is like than us internet twats can

[Özim]

He honestly doesn't look to bothered to me in post match interviews when we lose or draw, he really only gets annoyed when people question his methods, other than that it's just another day at the office for him, reeling out a list of excuses and harping on about the spirit and mental strength the team has.

He's lost his edge no doubt about it, winning is now just a secondary aim, finances are what he's focussed on and as far as he's concerned he's a winner every season of his life.

[Letters]

Rant on the internet trying to wake up people to the atrocities of the board/manager..
Atrocities! :lol:
Oh sod off.

[Letters]

He honestly doesn't look to bothered to me in post match interviews when we lose or draw.
OK. Watch Dein's interview. Someone who knows him well, as opposed to you and me who have never met him.
Whose opinion is more valid?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Dein's professional relationship with Wenger ended in 2007

[Niall_Quinn]

It wasn't that long, it was 2 years ago, in the run-up to the 1000th game (the less said about which, the better)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgPGTWPiMzc

That comment is about 16 minutes in, he also talks about the stadium move and how it affected our finances.
Gives you more of an insight into what the man is like than us internet twats can

:doh: You've resorted to Wenger tribute videos :doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

Dein's professional relationship with Wenger ended in 2007

Leave him to it. The strongest criticism he'll hear is "can't push us on". After that Wenger is faultless. Letters will refer to anything except Wenger's record. Now he's rolling out tribute videos for the man he claims he wants gone. Battered wife syndrome.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

OK. Watch Dein's interview. Someone who knows him well, as opposed to you and me who have never met him.
Whose opinion is more valid?

Like i say the comments Dein makes are exactly the same almost word for word as comments he made about Wenger many years previous when they were working together. They have as i've said not worked together since 2007, and there is a noticeable deterioration in Wenger's reaction to defeats, can he still be irrascible in interviews etc yes.....but if you look and compare there is incandescence in his earlier days, and an engimatic shrug and a few stock phrases these days.
It would seem counter-intuitive to suggest he still has the same intensity and desire to win that he had, i think finances have been a factor but i think because defeat and failure have become far more common he has become desensitised to it, and i genuinely don't think defeat hurts his pride enough for him to change things dramatically.
Either that or he is deluded or stupid, i don't think he's deluded or stupid i am pretty sure you don't either...what's the more likely?


Another example in 2005, Mourinho labels Wenger a voyeur and Wenger is up in arms and calls Mourinho disrespectful and makes the comment "if you give stupid people success it makes them more stupid"

In 2014 the specialist in failure comment, Wenger seems noticeably more relaxed about it and says something to the effect of "i'm embarassed for him"

Wenger seems more comfortable with mediocrity, he makes a remark which touches upon this during his time at Grampus Eight. He felt the application and hard work was coming from his players, but what was missing was a hatred and determination not to be beaten.

I think he's lost that determination.

[Niall_Quinn]

"Every defeat is a scar, in your heart, that remains for life - and it's a moment where you suffer, really." - Wenger

Who buys it? Season after season losing the crucial games, witnessing the collapses, coming up short time and time again. That's a hell of a lot of scar tissue and suffering. But still not enough to modify his methods or get the chequebook out.

He might well want to win. But he doesn't prepare to win. He might well hate losing. But he sets himself up to lose. Whose fault? Everyone can talk. Actions speak louder and results are what managers are judged on.

[Özim]

There's a big difference between wanting to win and doing everything in your power to try and make sure you win. Wenger wants to win, no doubt about that but ifwhen he loses his attitude is more one of "sh*t happens" than hurt.

The real winners who will do anything they can to win are obvious to see, they tend to react very badly to defeat sometimes doing things which can be perceived as over the top and embarrassing in brings out the bad loser in them.

Wenger these days seems to accept defeat with a shrug, you sometimes even see him give a wry smile and he invariably mentions the fact all we can do is to focus on the next game.

[Özim]

OK. Watch Dein's interview. Someone who knows him well, as opposed to you and me who have never met him.
Whose opinion is more valid?

As someone said Dein is talking about something that happened almost a decade ago, he's a different proposition now, very much use to losing and someone who now prioritises financial success over success on the pitch.

I just don't see that hurt these days, like I said the only thing that gets his back up is if someone dares to question his methods. In reality he's got over pretty lightly, a lot more awkward questions should have been asked by now, like why we're in the same position again after collapsing and effectively handing the title to the others, where is this mental strength he always talks about (it's ironic he mentioned something along those lines after the Everton match - this after a collapse of monumental proportions where the team showed fragility beyond belief), what is he going to change or do differently to try and stop this cycle of collapses we see every season, is he going to move on players who are injured all of the time or keep faith in them in the hope they stay fit yet again? There's a lot more but that would be a start.

[Globalgunner]

To Wenger every loss or calamitous capitulation from a winning position can be firmly parked in the corner marked. "Bad Luck". thats why he is all smiles and sunshine at the start of each season. Luck to him is some nebulous yet effective substance that is lobbed indiscriminately from on high by capricious Gods. He believes he has not gotten what all his hard work deserves. Many CL and PL titles have been lost due to bad luck.

[fakeyank]

Leave him to it. The strongest criticism he'll hear is "can't push us on". After that Wenger is faultless. Letters will refer to anything except Wenger's record. Now he's rolling out tribute videos for the man he claims he wants gone. Battered wife syndrome.

:haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Frankly it's human mentality, some people if there is no pressure on them to do their up't most won't. There is no doubt I could put much more effort into my job than I do, but frankly I don't get any thanks for doing so and I don't get any comeuppance for doing the bare minimum so why should I do anymore than that.

It cannot escape Wenger that he's under more pressure to achieve if he spends more, and we have evidence from 2014/2015 where the guy spent almost 100million on transfers that it doesn't make any great change to what he is able to accomplish. If you add Ozil from the previous season and state that 140million worth of players has given him 2 FA cups even by the craziness of the current transfer market that's scant return.

[Kano]

There's a big difference between wanting to win and doing everything in your power to try and make sure you win. Wenger wants to win, no doubt about that but ifwhen he loses his attitude is more one of "sh*t happens" than hurt.

The real winners who will do anything they can to win are obvious to see, they tend to react very badly to defeat sometimes doing things which can be perceived as over the top and embarrassing in brings out the bad loser in them.

Wenger these days seems to accept defeat with a shrug, you sometimes even see him give a wry smile and he invariably mentions the fact all we can do is to focus on the next game.

I don’t think that is true. The problem is that Wenger still romanticises the game, which allows him to be wrapped up in high-horse moral stance. Aside from allowing this to hamper the way he manages the squad, it also means he blames a multitude of factors away from himself. I’m sure he recognises some mistakes – that’s just human – but he places the blame of the key problems elsewhere. You see him on the side-lines thumping the turf, kicking bottles, shunning handshakes, arguing with 4th officials and sometimes opposing managers. He snipes at the press and fans because he is extremely pissed off at it going wrong. He desperately wants to win, but win on his terms only and it is dementing him. He cares deeply but the methods he uses prevent him from seeing the bare naked truth of the situation, so round-and-round he goes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don’t think that is true. The problem is that Wenger still romanticises the game, which allows him to be wrapped up in high-horse moral stance. Aside from allowing this to hamper the way he manages the squad, it also means he blames a multitude of factors away from himself. I’m sure he recognises some mistakes – that’s just human – but he places the blame of the key problems elsewhere. You see him on the side-lines thumping the turf, kicking bottles, arguing with 4th officials and sometimes opposing managers. He snipes at the press and fans because he is extremely pissed off at it going wrong. He desperately wants to win, but win on his terms and it is dementing him. He cares deeply but the methods he uses prevent him from seeing the bare naked truth of the situation, so round-and-round he goes.

You honestly think he takes defeat as personally as he used to?

Does he want to win as much as he used to ? Who can say quite possibly he does.

But there is a difference between wanting to win and hating to lose. I might really want a rib eye steak for dinner but in all honesty it's not going to hurt too much if I don't get one.

Defeat should be anathema to a coach and you just don't see it with Wenger anymore.

Wenger was asked about his record against Mourinho and he says it doesn't concern him, now of course he's going to say that. But do you really get the impression that it eats away at him? Because I don't and it really should when you consider how that pernicious midget considers him with such disdain.

It's an age thing I'm sure, he took his rivalry with Ferguson seriously and it would have meant a lot to him to shit on Ferguson's doorstep by winning the title at Old Trafford.

Now days his younger counterparts have passed him by and it seems to garner a shrug.

[Kano]

You honestly think he takes defeat as personally as he used to?

Does he want to win as much as he used to ? Who can say quite possibly he does.

But there is a difference between wanting to win and hating to lose. I might really want a rib eye steak for dinner but in all honesty it's not going to hurt too much if I don't get one.

Defeat should be anathema to a coach and you just don't see it with Wenger anymore.

Wenger was asked about his record against Mourinho and he says it doesn't concern him, now of course he's going to say that. But do you really get the impression that it eats away at him? Because I don't and it really should when you consider how that pernicious midget considers him with such disdain.

It's an age thing I'm sure, he took his rivalry with Ferguson seriously and it would have meant a lot to him to shit on Ferguson's doorstep by winning the title at Old Trafford.

Now days his younger counterparts have passed him by and it seems to garner a shrug.

I think he wants to win as much as ever but only on his terms - which is a massive problem. The actions I listed above say far more than any of the neutral political style stances he adopts infront of the media. He is also a 66 year old, so he has to be calmer anyway. I don't think finance purely drives him and as a proud man he wants to prove everyone wrong, that he was right after all. Except, that won't happen and the reverse is happening.

The only other way to come to a judgement about his hunger is via his comments outside a football came and as you concede yourself, he plays the game there 9.99 times out of ten, so you can't really make a clear assessment of what's going on in his head.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm only comparing him to how he appeared ten-fifteen years ago

[Kano]

I'm only comparing him to how he appeared ten-fifteen years ago

Everyone matures with age and especially at 66 you can't be as animated as you once were for obvious reasons. Compare yourself to 15 years ago and no doubt there's a big difference with how you react to situations. Yet ironically, he displays far more frustration on sidelines than he ever has.

[fakeyank]

Everyone matures with age and especially at 66 you can't be as animated as you once were for obvious reasons. Compare yourself to 15 years ago and no doubt there's a big difference with how you react to situations. Yet ironically, he displays far more frustration on sidelines than he ever has.

He is seeing his empire crumbling one brick at a time. Tbf, there isnt an empire anymore.. it was over long back. People are just realizing that he is finished now.

[Letters]

:doh: You've resorted to Wenger tribute videos :doh:

And you've resorted to changing the subject :lol:
I was talking about an interview Dein gave where he said how Wenger was after games we lost.
You said that was a long time ago so I posted the interview, which was 2 years ago.

So of course now you're desperately trying to change the subject and distract everyone with WUMming and lazy straw man arguments rather than engaging with the point. So well done, you win teh internets again.

[Letters]

Dein's professional relationship with Wenger ended in 2007

Not sure how that's relevant. My comments were about Dein saying how Wenger is after defeats. And he was talking 2 years ago, they clearly still see each other regularly. Surely a more relevant indicator of how bothered Wenger is than most of us who have never met him.

[Letters]

As someone said Dein is talking about something that happened almost a decade ago.

No, he isn't. He was talking 2 years ago and saying how they go out (present tense) after home games unless we've lost.

[mastermind84]

Do we really know if the losses effect Wenger in the same way they used to? I can't really be sure because I don't see it.
Did you see how loses affected Wenger in the past?

[Niall_Quinn]

And you've resorted to changing the subject :lol:
I was talking about an interview Dein gave where he said how Wenger was after games we lost.
You said that was a long time ago so I posted the interview, which was 2 years ago.

So of course now you're desperately trying to change the subject and distract everyone with WUMming and lazy straw man arguments rather than engaging with the point. So well done, you win teh internets again.

What subject?

The general question is whether Wenger tolerates losing more easily today than he did in the past. You've chucked up a tribute video featuring his mate and tried to claim you have the definitive proof that Wenger hasn't changed. In a video designed for the very purpose of painting Wenger in the best possible light his mate in a 3 second clip says no, Wenger remains poor company at dinner if he's lost a match. He's still at the dinner you notice - is that the hunger you are talking about?

Or maybe not. Because in Wenger's own words. "If we win the game, then you have the good moments and you go out with friends and have dinner. So that’s kind of a switch off, but I never go out for dinner after we lose a game. Never. I just sit at home miserably and think about why we lost, what I can do better."

One of them has a bad memory then. Whichever one it is your 3 seconds is scant evidence of anything at all except maybe the feelgood woolliness and exuberant recollection common in tribute pieces. It proves nothing other than your unwillingness to dig deeper than the local topsoil for your material. PravdaArsenal.com is where Wenger tells us directly how he feels about losing.


If we have not got a game for a while, and we have lost the last one, there are times when I have not gone out at all for days. Maybe people don’t realise how much it hurts, but I think it hurts the fans as well. It really hurts to lose the game. If it doesn’t hurt, you will never survive in the game. If you want to stay in this job, it has to hurt when you lose matches. - Wenger 2015

So there. Job done properly. Use that instead and no need for thanks, it only took 3 seconds to find it.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/features/20150514/a-day-in-the-life-of-arsene-wenger