Who's Next?

[GP]

So as there isn't anyone left who wants Wenger to stay, who would be your choice to replace him?

Lets not talk about if he'll go or when, that's been done to death. Only discussion of potential replacements.

[Kano]

Who was that 'protege' a few years back that it was rumoured Wenger had an eye on him succeeding, some Eastern European guy or something?

Wouldn't mind Allegri for obvious reasons and Roger Schmidt seems to be pretty good.

Whoever comes in next is only going to be around for 3/4 seasons tops anyway.

[Letters]

Quite like what Koeman is doing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gary Neville

[Power n Glory]

Louis Van Gaal

[selassie]

Unai Emery
Frank De Boer

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There isn't anyone who stands out above any other

Low, Emery, Tuchel, Schmidt, Bilic would all be on my shortlist.

[selassie]

Who was that 'protege' a few years back that it was rumoured Wenger had an eye on him succeeding, some Eastern European guy or something?

Wouldn't mind Allegri for obvious reasons and Roger Schmidt seems to be pretty good.

Whoever comes in next is only going to be around for 3/4 seasons tops anyway.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2793849/dragan-stojkovic-man-replace-arsene-wenger-arsenal.html

Dragan Stojkovic, Wenger Puppet.

[selassie]

There isn't anyone who stands out above any other

Low, Emery, Tuchel, Schmidt, Bilic would all be on my shortlist.

If we are serious we would move heaven and earth for Diego Simeone.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Do you really want us to play like Atletico Madrid?

Do you not think we are in a good enough financial situation to win without playing like that.

[Kano]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2793849/dragan-stojkovic-man-replace-arsene-wenger-arsenal.html

Dragan Stojkovic, Wenger Puppet.

Cheers Selas, that's the guy.


"I would love Stojkovic to be my successor, there are a hundred reasons for that," Wenger told Serbian paper Vecernje Novosti. ''Our ideas are the same and we both strive for perfect football. I knew he was going to have teams playing attacking football with many passes. He has done that, showing he will be a great coach."

Wenger said that 5 years ago. It's hard to think why he would've changed his mind and I think Wenger will play a key role in deciding who follows him. The rest of the board haven't got a clue about the football world, that's why they rely on him so much.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It was Gazidis who brought in Shad Forsythe and Wim Jonker, it's all dependent on what input he's allowed to have into the whole process.

[Marc Overmars]

Quite a few names I wouldn't mind, most mentioned in this thread already. Simeone would be my top pick mainly because he's such a character and would weed out the lily-livered types we have in the squad. His team are fighters and I'm sure he would implement a pressing game not too dissimilar to what Poch has done at Spurs. Yeah his Atleti team are not pretty but you're unlikely to beat Real Madrid and Barcelona on just technical ability alone. Besides, our football is shit and doesn't get results anyway. So I'm not arsed really.

Koeman would be my pick if we're talking about Prem managers. Again, I like the pressing game but also he's made some good signings, when many thought Southampton would fold when all their talent was sold off and Poch left.

[Özim]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2793849/dragan-stojkovic-man-replace-arsene-wenger-arsenal.html

Dragan Stojkovic, Wenger Puppet.

Yeah thanks but no thanks, we don't want another Wenger.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2793849/dragan-stojkovic-man-replace-arsene-wenger-arsenal.html

Dragan Stojkovic, Wenger Puppet.

This is the one guy we absolutely must not get then.

[Özim]

Quite a few names I wouldn't mind, most mentioned in this thread already. Simeone would be my top pick mainly because he's such a character and would weed out the lily-livered types we have in the squad. His team are fighters and I'm sure he would implement a pressing game not too dissimilar to what Poch has done at Spurs. Yeah his Atleti team are not pretty but you're unlikely to beat Real Madrid and Barcelona on just technical ability alone. Besides, our football is shit and doesn't get results anyway. So I'm not arsed really.

Koeman would be my pick if we're talking about Prem managers. Again, I like the pressing game but also he's made some good signings, when many thought Southampton would fold when all their talent was sold off and Poch left.

Simeone for me too, for the same reasons you mention, like you said our football is a bore to watch anyway and we've had to put up with that for years, so it'll be an improvement on what we've had to deal with either way.

[Özim]

This is the one guy we absolutely must not get then.

If Wenger has any say in picking his successory we might be in trouble.

[Power n Glory]

Quite a few names I wouldn't mind, most mentioned in this thread already. Simeone would be my top pick mainly because he's such a character and would weed out the lily-livered types we have in the squad. His team are fighters and I'm sure he would implement a pressing game not too dissimilar to what Poch has done at Spurs. Yeah his Atleti team are not pretty but you're unlikely to beat Real Madrid and Barcelona on just technical ability alone. Besides, our football is shit and doesn't get results anyway. So I'm not arsed really.

Koeman would be my pick if we're talking about Prem managers. Again, I like the pressing game but also he's made some good signings, when many thought Southampton would fold when all their talent was sold off and Poch left.

It’s been a struggle to find any enjoyment from the way we play this season. It’s boring. We need to get out of our heads that we’d be swapping attractive football for something ugly. We used to be a bit easy on the eye but we’ve morphed into something hideous like we’ve had one to many appointments with Wako Jacko’s plastic surgeon. I have no idea what Wenger has done to this team but I can’t stand to watch another season of this. It’s dire stuff. So boring and predictable to watch. It’s beyond missing out on silverware, something the pundits miss when speaking Arsenal fans being fed up.

I’d be happy to see Simeone come in but I’m annoyed that we missed out on Klopp.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Simeone for me too, for the same reasons you mention, like you said our football is a bore to watch anyway and we've had to put up with that for years, so it'll be an improvement on what we've had to deal with either way.

Our football can be a bore to watch however that's not always the case, under Simeone dull football would be the intention rather than the by product of poor management.
Arsenal have more funds avaliable to them than Atletico Madrid so we have no reason to ape how they play.

Winning things is important and I have no problem with sacrificing creativity when necessary to get the results we need, but I think we don't need to go down the road of strangling the life out of games to be a more effective and efficient team.

[Niall_Quinn]

If Wenger has any say in picking his successory we might be in trouble.

Nightmare scenario. Wenger moves upstairs and brings in one of his minions. Result, Wenger effectively remains at the helm.

[Kano]

Our football can be a bore to watch however that's not always the case, under Simeone dull football would be the intention rather than the by product of poor management.
Arsenal have more funds avaliable to them than Atletico Madrid so we have no reason to ape how they play.

Winning things is important and I have no problem with sacrificing creativity when necessary to get the results we need, but I think we don't need to go down the road of strangling the life out of games to be a more effective and efficient team.
Atletico are a team full of scrotes – I don’t mind having a few of those in the team to compete with the others in this league but not a full quota. What they are doing in Spain is amazing given the influence and resources they are up against in Barca and Madrid. It’s great seeing them upset those two prima donna teams but in reality, they are ugly and just as sly and dirty as Barca and Real.

[Marc Overmars]

Our football can be a bore to watch however that's not always the case, under Simeone dull football would be the intention rather than the by product of poor management.
Arsenal have more funds avaliable to them than Atletico Madrid so we have no reason to ape how they play.

Winning things is important and I have no problem with sacrificing creativity when necessary to get the results we need, but I think we don't need to go down the road of strangling the life out of games to be a more effective and efficient team.

It wouldn't have to be an exact replica anyway. As you say we have more money than Atleti and could probably attract better players, players who you'd hope would naturally gel into a perfect blend of defensive stubbornness and attacking flair.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Exactly if we want to model a side that punches above its weight it should be Borussia Dortmund not Atletico Madrid

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It wouldn't have to be an exact replica anyway. As you say we have more money than Atleti and could probably attract better players, players who you'd hope would naturally gel into a perfect blend of defensive stubbornness and attacking flair.

I tend to think money is not the issue, for instance that little sociopath Mourinho has had plenty of money to spend and insists on his sides playing turgid football.

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s been a struggle to find any enjoyment from the way we play this season. It’s boring. We need to get out of our heads that we’d be swapping attractive football for something ugly. We used to be a bit easy on the eye but we’ve morphed into something hideous like we’ve had one to many appointments with Wako Jacko’s plastic surgeon. I have no idea what Wenger has done to this team but I can’t stand to watch another season of this. It’s dire stuff. So boring and predictable to watch. It’s beyond missing out on silverware, something the pundits miss when speaking Arsenal fans being fed up.

I’d be happy to see Simeone come in but I’m annoyed that we missed out on Klopp.

Be even more annoying to discover who we miss out on this year as Wenger digs his heels in and decides to honour his contract. The self sacrifice of the man brings a tear.

I'm with you. I care far less about the trophies than the style and effectiveness of the football we play. I watched the last match with SkyGo in one window, this forum in another and email open below, Spent most of the time on the forum and dealing with email. The match was unwatchable. Absolute shite. More of the same crap we've seen all season and getting worse as the seasons pass. If we were top now and on the way to a title I'd still be pissed because the football is so awful. I believe we're the most boring team in the league right now, us an Utd probably. If that can't be fixed then what's the point? Simeone's pressing game would be a significant upgrade in terms of entertainment, certainly in terms of effectiveness. Beggars can't be choosers and we are abject paupers when it comes to getting entertainment from the shit being shovelled up each week.

None of it is simple though. Depends on what Kroenke and the gang are prepared to accept. Will they tolerate a manager who wants to spend so we we can pursue trophies? Or are they after somebody who can come in and keep the books in order while keeping the expenses down to the absolute minimum, Wenger's speciality? I'm guessing the latter.

We're in quite a bit of shit when you look at the decision makers in the club.

[Power n Glory]

Be even more annoying to discover who we miss out on this year as Wenger digs his heels in and decides to honour his contract. The self sacrifice of the man brings a tear.

I'm with you. I care far less about the trophies than the style and effectiveness of the football we play. I watched the last match with SkyGo in one window, this forum in another and email open below, Spent most of the time on the forum and dealing with email. The match was unwatchable. Absolute shite. More of the same crap we've seen all season and getting worse as the seasons pass. If we were top now and on the way to a title I'd still be pissed because the football is so awful. I believe we're the most boring team in the league right now, us an Utd probably. If that can't be fixed then what's the point? Simeone's pressing game would be a significant upgrade in terms of entertainment, certainly in terms of effectiveness. Beggars can't be choosers and we are abject paupers when it comes to getting entertainment from the shit being shovelled up each week.

None of it is simple though. Depends on what Kroenke and the gang are prepared to accept. Will they tolerate a manager who wants to spend so we we can pursue trophies? Or are they after somebody who can come in and keep the books in order while keeping the expenses down to the absolute minimum, Wenger's speciality? I'm guessing the latter.

We're in quite a bit of shit when you look at the decision makers in the club.

If it’s a case that we’ll be working with a very strict budget, who better than Simeone to take over? What Klopp did at Dortmund was impressive and I really like his style of football. But what Simeone is doing is really impressive. Dortmund only had one powerhouse team to deal in Bayern but having to fight off both Real Madrid and Barca…with that small team….it’s ridiculous and he’s managed to sustain that challenge so it’s no fluke.

The decision makers not knowing shit about football might help us in this situation. I can’t see them making a wild card decision and taking a punt on a little known manager like Dein did with Wenger. We can’t really afford to drop down the table and risk losing sponsorship deals.

[Globalgunner]

I wouldnt put too much stock in Allegri because of what he achieved with Juve. that club is a machine and it rolls on regardless of who is at the helm. Even Wenger couldnt fk Juve up no matter how hard he tried, apart from the fact he wouldnt last 6 weeks there. Top of my head I couldnt name a favourite except Simeone, simply because the good ones are already taken while we stuck by the dinosaur. Maybe we should all pay a lot more attention to the Euros and see if anyone stands out. We all know the one who shalt not be named will be here next year to stink another season out.

[selassie]

Atletico are a team full of scrotes – I don’t mind having a few of those in the team to compete with the others in this league but not a full quota. What they are doing in Spain is amazing given the influence and resources they are up against in Barca and Madrid. It’s great seeing them upset those two prima donna teams but in reality, they are ugly and just as sly and dirty as Barca and Real.

They aren't that bad, they are not as pretty on the eye as Barca or even Real but they can play a bit too, they have some very technical players like Oliver Torres, Koke, Saul Niguez, Griezmann etc. Simeone is just a very ruthless manager, he has a system in place that places winning above anything. He's the opposite of Wenger in some ways.

[Özim]

Exactly if we want to model a side that punches above its weight it should be Borussia Dortmund not Atletico Madrid

We missed the boat with Dortmund, Klopp was the guy that moulded them and he's at Liverpool now but IMO Simeone is limited by budget at Athletico with us he'd have more money to spend on better players and thus the result would be a resilient team with flair as well.

Dortmund have more individual ability than Athletico but Athletico have a better team, Dortmund's capitulation against Liverpool and their failure to make it through in the CL shows they're not as good a team as they once were.

Simeone has Dortmund fighting for all the big trophies every season against the very best sides, Dortmund's only real challenge were Bayern who they can't really compete with now.

For me Simeone is just the kind of manager we want, a guy who has a plan and makes his players perform that plan to perfection, who knows what he could achieve with better players.

[Özim]

They aren't that bad, they are not as pretty on the eye as Barca or even Real but they can play a bit too, they have some very technical players like Oliver Torres, Koke, Saul Niguez, Griezmann etc. Simeone is just a very ruthless manager, he has a system in place that places winning above anything. He's the opposite of Wenger in some ways.

He also gets the best out of forwards, Falco, Costa and Griezmann have all been prolific under him.

[Niall_Quinn]

If it’s a case that we’ll be working with a very strict budget, who better than Simeone to take over? What Klopp did at Dortmund was impressive and I really like his style of football. But what Simeone is doing is really impressive. Dortmund only had one powerhouse team to deal in Bayern but having to fight off both Real Madrid and Barca…with that small team….it’s ridiculous and he’s managed to sustain that challenge so it’s no fluke.

The decision makers not knowing shit about football might help us in this situation. I can’t see them making a wild card decision and taking a punt on a little known manager like Dein did with Wenger. We can’t really afford to drop down the table and risk losing sponsorship deals.

Agreed that Simeone could do more with less, but I doubt he'd want to come here to be non-competitive and just make up the numbers. Some of the players he has at his disposal would cost a fair few quid to bring in as replacement for little flowers like Walcott.

Anyway, none of it is happening. Wenger is here and he's going nowhere any time soon. Fucking depressing really.

[Munchies]

Unai Emery

Potentially 3 Europa trophies in a row

[selassie]

He also gets the best out of forwards, Falco, Costa and Griezmann have all been prolific under him.

Yep, he's an elite Manager IMO, up there with the likes of Pep if you take into consideration what he has done/is doing at Atletico. He has a very good track record with young players too.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

1) Simeone is my number one pick though I think there's no chance he's leaving Athletico who thanks to Barca's Arsenalesque collapse have a shot of winning another title. The fact that Chelsea appointed Conte over him leads me to believe that he doesn't want to come to England no matter the offer.

2) Thomas Tuchel. Despite Dortmund's collapse against Liverpool last week, they've been really really good this season.

3) Roger Schmidt.

4) Mourinho :ninja:



Not convinced at all about Koeman. If it wasn't for the Spurs connection, I'd be all over Pochettino as well, in fact I think he's odds on for Man Utd this summer.

[dostoy]

Pellegrini.

Very experienced at the top level and he would spend money at least.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Pellegrini.

Very experienced at the top level and he would spend money at least.

Really?. This is my problem with the anti Wenger people (not that I'm pro Wenger, who sensibly can be) but they make the assumption that anyone is better. We say we should have walked the league, what's his excuse?, they were playing badly even before the Guardiola rumours.
Getting into the semi finals of the champions league off the back of wins against Dynamo Kiev and an underachieving PSG doesn't make him a good coach.
Also he spends money, but spends a lot of it on utter dross.
Wenger is a totally burnt out manager but thinking Pellegrini is an improvement is sheer absurdity.

[Globalgunner]

Really?. This is my problem with the anti Wenger people (not that I'm pro Wenger, who sensibly can be) but they make the assumption that anyone is better. We say we should have walked the league, what's his excuse?, they were playing badly even before the Guardiola rumours.
Getting into the semi finals of the champions league off the back of wins against Dynamo Kiev and an underachieving PSG doesn't make him a good coach.
Also he spends money, but spends a lot of it on utter dross.
Wenger is a totally burnt out manager but thinking Pellegrini is an improvement is sheer absurdity.

Would Wenger have won the league with City in the last 2 seasons. Answer is no
Would Wenger be in the semis of the CL this season with City. Answer is no
So Pellegrini would be an improvement on Wenger. Though probably not as a long term solution for us as a manager. I would not be so quick to dismiss any other manager in the EPL however. Imagine if someone has suggested Claudio Ranieri last summer as a replacement for Wenger.?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Would Wenger have won the league with City in the last 2 seasons. Answer is I don't know
Would Wenger be in the semis of the CL this season with City. Answer is I don't know
So Pellegrini would be an improvement on Wenger based completely on speculation. Though probably not as a long term solution for us as a manager. I would not be so quick to dismiss any other manager in the EPL however. Imagine if someone has suggested Claudio Ranieri last summer as a replacement for Wenger.?

Just corrected you there, and i'd still dismiss Ranieri as a replacement now.

[AFC Leveller]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13055407_1335521676505492_2549651917832310454_n.pn g?oh=cd5879c61afbbd82b7869666abf9eb47&oe=57A9C502

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Honestly we are getting into stupid territory, the kind of nonsense where someone said Pulis was a better manager based on having beaten Mourinho in the premier league.

Winning the title with City is ten times less of an achievement than it is with Arsenal, and yes i believe if the likes of Roberto Mancini and Manuel Pellegrini can do it than Wenger even in his current decline could as well.

[selassie]

1) Simeone is my number one pick though I think there's no chance he's leaving Athletico who thanks to Barca's Arsenalesque collapse have a shot of winning another title. The fact that Chelsea appointed Conte over him leads me to believe that he doesn't want to come to England no matter the offer.

2) Thomas Tuchel. Despite Dortmund's collapse against Liverpool last week, they've been really really good this season.



Agree with both points. Tuchel is doing very good work at Dortmund and has them playing some very good offensive football, I question him tactically though, they are a little bit too open for my liking, even in the Bundesliga.

[selassie]

Honestly we are getting into stupid territory, the kind of nonsense where someone said Pulis was a better manager based on having beaten Mourinho in the premier league.

Winning the title with City is ten times less of an achievement than it is with Arsenal, and yes i believe if the likes of Roberto Mancini and Manuel Pellegrini can do it than Wenger even in his current decline could as well.

Honestly? I don't think Wenger would have won the league with City.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think he would have done, in the same way I am pretty sure Roberto Mancini nor Manuel Pellegrini would have ever won the title with Arsenal at any time.

[Power n Glory]

Honestly we are getting into stupid territory, the kind of nonsense where someone said Pulis was a better manager based on having beaten Mourinho in the premier league.

Winning the title with City is ten times less of an achievement than it is with Arsenal, and yes i believe if the likes of Roberto Mancini and Manuel Pellegrini can do it than Wenger even in his current decline could as well.

You put Bilic on your shortlist. That's probably a bigger gamble than Pellegrini.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You put Bilic on your shortlist. That's probably a bigger gamble than Pellegrini.

I think Bilic has over achieved with West Ham, where as considering the squad at his disposal i think Pellegrini has underachieved with City

Well i say under achieved, he has achieved what he is capable of as a very average manager. I would also add a very average and old manager....two years younger than Wenger but makes him look youthful

[selassie]

I think he would have done, in the same way I am pretty sure Roberto Mancini nor Manuel Pellegrini would have ever won the title with Arsenal at any time.

Fair play and I respect your opinion. I personally think both Wenger and Pellegrini are flawed Managers, as is Mancini. They all lack tactical nous that for me puts them a level below the likes of Klopp, Pep, Simeone & Maureen.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Fair play and I respect your opinion. I personally think both Wenger and Pellegrini are flawed Managers, as is Mancini. They all lack tactical nous that for me puts them a level below the likes of Klopp, Pep, Simeone & Maureen.

Oh i agree, my assertion is that Wenger is no worse than Pellegrini/Mancini....but yes i think the others are all better

[Globalgunner]

Just corrected you there, and i'd still dismiss Ranieri as a replacement now.

Replacing your speculation with mine is correction.
Way to go Einstein.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Replacing your speculation with mine is correction.
Way to go Einstein.

Yours is definitive No, mine is admitting I don't know.

[Letters]

Fair play and I respect your opinion. I personally think both Wenger and Pellegrini are flawed Managers, as is Mancini. They all lack tactical nous that for me puts them a level below the likes of Klopp, Pep, Simeone & Maureen.

All managers are flaws and one mistake I feel the I HOPE WENGER DIES PAINFULLY (may be a slight exaggeration) brigade make is to think that Wenger has all these flaws which he's suddenly developed and the next bloke won't have any.
The truth is Wenger has always had these flaws, they were just masked in the past by his strengths which in the early days gave him a massive advantage over the rest. Others soon adapted and he no longer has that edge.
And of course the next bloke will have flaws. Klopp spent most of last season battling relegation with Dortmund. Maureen pissed off people at Chelsea so much that he created such a toxic atmosphere that the reigning champions were in a relegation scrap till they got rid.
They all have flaws and one problem I see is the situation at each club is different. Success at one club doesn't guarantee success at Arsenal, and I guess failure at another club doesn't guarantee failure at Arsenal.

[Gooner23]

Don't think many would disagree with that Letters, but that doesn't make the criticism of Wenger any less merited. It's been done to death but the point is we absolutely need to make a change, regardless of how much of a gamble it might be, because it's crystal clear Wenger cannot take us any further as a club. In fact we are now going backwards again.

[Power n Glory]

I think Bilic has over achieved with West Ham, where as considering the squad at his disposal i think Pellegrini has underachieved with City

Well i say under achieved, he has achieved what he is capable of as a very average manager. I would also add a very average and old manager....two years younger than Wenger but makes him look youthful

Still a huge gamble on a candidate that hasn't ever won a trophy. He might turn out to be a great manager but it's still a wild card. Agree about Pellegrini being old though. But in his day he did well with Villareal and Malaga and arguably had them punching above their weight. Similar to what your arguing with Bilic. With City he won the title but lost out to Chelsea the next season with Jose, so no shame in that. This season he's been undermined with the whole Pep fiasco and there may have been murmurs about him being moved on before the summer. No easy task dealing with that City team. He hasn't really had a chance to build his own squad and clear out the troublemakers so it's hard to judge. But I don't rate him that highly in all honesty. But it's just as much as a gamble on him as it is on Bilic if you ask me so not really a stupid suggestion.

[Power n Glory]

All managers are flaws and one mistake I feel the I HOPE WENGER DIES PAINFULLY (may be a slight exaggeration) brigade make is to think that Wenger has all these flaws which he's suddenly developed and the next bloke won't have any.
The truth is Wenger has always had these flaws, they were just masked in the past by his strengths which in the early days gave him a massive advantage over the rest. Others soon adapted and he no longer has that edge.
And of course the next bloke will have flaws. Klopp spent most of last season battling relegation with Dortmund. Maureen pissed off people at Chelsea so much that he created such a toxic atmosphere that the reigning champions were in a relegation scrap till they got rid.
They all have flaws and one problem I see is the situation at each club is different. Success at one club doesn't guarantee success at Arsenal, and I guess failure at another club doesn't guarantee failure at Arsenal.

Out of sheer boredom of seeing the same each season, I think most wouldn't mind seeing something different even if it's a disaster. A gamble rather than playing it safe all day with Wenger.

[selassie]

All managers are flaws and one mistake I feel the I HOPE WENGER DIES PAINFULLY (may be a slight exaggeration) brigade make is to think that Wenger has all these flaws which he's suddenly developed and the next bloke won't have any.
The truth is Wenger has always had these flaws, they were just masked in the past by his strengths which in the early days gave him a massive advantage over the rest. Others soon adapted and he no longer has that edge.
And of course the next bloke will have flaws. Klopp spent most of last season battling relegation with Dortmund. Maureen pissed off people at Chelsea so much that he created such a toxic atmosphere that the reigning champions were in a relegation scrap till they got rid.
They all have flaws and one problem I see is the situation at each club is different. Success at one club doesn't guarantee success at Arsenal, and I guess failure at another club doesn't guarantee failure at Arsenal.

Yeah we know you want Wenger to stay.

Sure all Managers have flaws, no denying that. One thing I would hope any new Manager would do is make a change, you know like actually try something different and not hope repeating the same thing over and over will yield different results.

[alexander]

Out of sheer boredom of seeing the same each season, I think most wouldn't mind seeing something different even if it's a disaster. A gamble rather than playing it safe all day with Wenger.

This is true, at some point we have to take the plunge anyway. We are really stuck in a groundhog day at the moment and I think there is a general `meh` from fans and media also surrounding arsenal now. We dont even play good football now, there is nothing.

[Niall_Quinn]

You put Bilic on your shortlist. That's probably a bigger gamble than Pellegrini.

I'd have Bilic here, no problem. You can tell he's into the football, that's the number one priority for him and that's what we need. Certainly a gamble but he couldn't possibly be worse than Wenger tactically and it's hard to imagine he couldn't get more from the squad. Anyway, we get to see what he's made of for another season yet because the old goat won't be leaving until at least the end of next season.

[Niall_Quinn]

All managers are flaws and one mistake I feel the I HOPE WENGER DIES PAINFULLY (may be a slight exaggeration) brigade make is to think that Wenger has all these flaws which he's suddenly developed and the next bloke won't have any.
The truth is Wenger has always had these flaws, they were just masked in the past by his strengths which in the early days gave him a massive advantage over the rest. Others soon adapted and he no longer has that edge.
And of course the next bloke will have flaws. Klopp spent most of last season battling relegation with Dortmund. Maureen pissed off people at Chelsea so much that he created such a toxic atmosphere that the reigning champions were in a relegation scrap till they got rid.
They all have flaws and one problem I see is the situation at each club is different. Success at one club doesn't guarantee success at Arsenal, and I guess failure at another club doesn't guarantee failure at Arsenal.

There is no I HOPE WENGER DIES PAINFULLY brigade. But there is a Wenger cocksucking brigade, as well you know.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

All managers are flaws and one mistake I feel the I HOPE WENGER DIES PAINFULLY (may be a slight exaggeration) brigade make is to think that Wenger has all these flaws which he's suddenly developed and the next bloke won't have any.
The truth is Wenger has always had these flaws, they were just masked in the past by his strengths which in the early days gave him a massive advantage over the rest. Others soon adapted and he no longer has that edge.
And of course the next bloke will have flaws. Klopp spent most of last season battling relegation with Dortmund. Maureen pissed off people at Chelsea so much that he created such a toxic atmosphere that the reigning champions were in a relegation scrap till they got rid.
They all have flaws and one problem I see is the situation at each club is different. Success at one club doesn't guarantee success at Arsenal, and I guess failure at another club doesn't guarantee failure at Arsenal.

Slight exaggeration indeed, even Zim has admitted the voodoo dolls he made of Wenger are over the top

All managers have flaws indeed, Wengers flaws are amplified by the total control he has over footballing decisions at the club to the point where he has made himself Unsackable because the only person in the board with even a scintilla of footballing knowledge is powerless to intervene.

That's the problem with him even leaving aside that he's too old to go on a learning curve, he is largely only answerable to himself because of the autonomy he is given.

No manager should be in that position, not even one who has won countless silverware recently.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But there is a Wenger cocksucking brigade, as well you know.

Isn't Sonia Tatar the president of that ?

[GP]

Jamon Ruffles

[McNamara That Ghost...]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/WGML_2008/thejaunt_goldberg.jpg

[The Emirates Gallactico]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/WGML_2008/thejaunt_goldberg.jpg

85% win ratio? Yes please.

[AFC Leveller]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/18/arsenal-players-baffled-by-arsene-wengers-bizarre-decisions-and/

[Power n Glory]

I'd have Bilic here, no problem. You can tell he's into the football, that's the number one priority for him and that's what we need. Certainly a gamble but he couldn't possibly be worse than Wenger tactically and it's hard to imagine he couldn't get more from the squad. Anyway, we get to see what he's made of for another season yet because the old goat won't be leaving until at least the end of next season.

Oh I have no problem taking a gamble with Bilic. It's at the point where I just want to see something different even it we're risking total disaster in terms of league position and Europe. It really can't get any worse than what it is. And before Letters or any other onlookers chime in with the obvious about things getting worse, it can't get any worse than a fan losing total interest in the club. That's what it's coming down to and it's not about silverware because we just won two FA Cups and I stuck around way longer before we won those cups but still managed to find some joy and hope in what we were doing.

It's the repetition that's really killing it for me and most fans I imagine. It started with the repetitive cycle of seeing our star players poached by bigger clubs. Us then having to raise up more star players to only sell them again and to go as far to sell to our rivals even. The repetitive soundbites from Wenger about how difficult it is to buy star players, the repetitive statements about not killing youth and developing players only to see him waste years on them to turn out rubbish or just to sell them off to our rivals and bigger clubs once they start showing promise. So the reasons for not buying because he doesn't want to kill players A, B, and C just turns out to be a huge waste of time. The we get down to seeing the same tactics, same tired subs, same injury problems which often cause our title challenge capitulation each year, but because he won't change a damn thing in his management style, so we end up with the reason why players want to leave. And around and around and around.....:coffee:

[fakeyank]

Simeone
Laurent Blanc
Bilic
Loew
De Boer
Koeman
Unai Emery
Aitor Karanka

In descending order.

[Munchies]

Just had a look at other arsenal forums to get a general consensus and every single person wants him to leave.

Non Arsenal forums? They all want him to stay

[Letters]

Yeah we know you want Wenger to stay.
And you want Spurs to win the league.



It's fun making stuff up, isn't it?

[Power n Glory]

Was catching up on Le Grove and pretty much echoes how I feel about the situation. Desperate to see a change.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/18/arsenal-players-baffled-by-arsene-wengers-bizarre-decisions-and/

This story has leaked from the camp. Read it last night from my Bleacher Report alert and again this morning on Le Grove. Make of it what you will.



Arsenal players baffled by Arsene Wenger's bizarre decisions and frequent days off

Arsenal players and staff are becoming increasingly mystified by the decision making of manager Arsene Wenger as they now face a fight to make sure the club’s season does not completely fall apart.

Rather than rip into his squad for the draw with Crystal Palace that finally ended any faint Premier League title dreams and left Arsenal battling to remain in the top four, Wenger gave the players who had failed to secure three points Monday off.

The decision was met with a sense of surprise and bewilderment, as Arsenal face a must-win game against West Bromwich Albion at the Emirates on Thursday night.

Arsenal’s players had already been given Friday off before the Palace game, having been allowed to take Sunday and Monday off in the immediate aftermath of the 3-3 draw against West Ham United – in which the Gunners threw away a two-goal lead.

With games coming thick and fast over the run-in, Wenger has been carefully managing the schedule of his players in an attempt to avoid more injury problems.

But the Frenchman has given his players four of the last nine days off, as Arsenal’s season threatens to implode, leaving little time to work on problems at both ends of the pitch. The Gunners have conceded the most goals of the sides currently in the top four and also scored the least.

Wenger’s training schedule is not the only thing that has raised questions within Arsenal recently, as his team selections and substitutions have also left players and staff members scratching their heads.

The 66-year-old preferred goalkeeper David Ospina to fit-again Petr Cech for the draw at West Ham, but, having praised the Colombian, then brought Cech back for the visit of Palace.

Cech was blamed in some quarters for Yannick Bolasie’s equaliser, but the former Chelsea man insisted he could not keep the forward’s shot out and would have not been helped by Gabriel turning his back on it.

Gabriel had been criticised for turning his back on Andy Carroll’s acrobatic effort that deflected into the net off him a week earlier against West Ham, but Wenger decided to stick with Brazilian over Per Mertesacker.

It was a surprise that Wenger had not introduced Mertesacker as a substitute to help deal with Carroll at Upton Park and the German remained on the bench against Palace, despite Gabriel’s poor recent form.

Wenger’s substitutions over the past two games have also been a source of internal debate. With his team trailing 3-2 in the must-win game against West Ham, the manager’s first change was to send on midfielder Aaron Ramsey.

Against Palace, Wenger introduced Ramsey, Olivier Giroud and Theo Walcott but left Joel Campbell, who has made a positive impact on a number of occasions this season, on the bench.

Arsenal started 2016 top of the table, but have won two of their last seven Premier League games and are now 13 points behind leaders Leicester City.

Rather than dreaming of catching the Foxes, the Gunners will now spend their final five games attempting to cling on to a top-four place after falling behind third-placed Manchester City on goal difference and seeing fifth-placed United move four points behind them. Arsenal will almost certainly finish behind Tottenham Hotspur for the first time under Wenger.


The club are expected to keep faith with Wenger for the final year of his current contract, but failure to qualify for next season’s Champions League would place huge pressure on him to quit.

Following last month’s defeat to Swansea City, Cech, Mertesacker, Mikel Arteta and Tomas Rosicky called a heated players’ inquest, which did not involve Wenger, in a bid to save their season.

And Mertesacker has now called on his team-mates to put their bodies on their line in the remaining five games to make sure the campaign does not end in disaster.

“It's about discipline,” said Mertesacker. “We lacked a bit of that desperation, even when we were 2-0 up at West Ham, to defend and get everyone behind the ball.

“To come back to that level is absolutely important in the Premier League and if you don't you will get punished. These details are very important to us and everyone can see it, it is obvious.


“We want to win every single match now, to put teams in front of us under pressure. We have got the belief we can win every single one and that is the task from now on, to concentrate on the next one.

“Even when something is going against us in a game, we have to focus on ourselves and not get distracted by anything else.

“The focus and mindset is really important. There are fast changes, even in a single game and throughout the stretch of the season.

“We have to be ready and concentrate on ourselves and our games - anything can happen in football.

“We need to be there, when there is space and teams are dropping points. But that is not our business, we are just talking about ourselves and trying to win every single game.”

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well there is an argument about people saying they would take Spurs winning the league or finishing 5th if it meant the end of Wenger, but we know in all likelihood that even if both happened that wouldn't be the end of Wenger. The board won't get rid of him because it means they'd have to find a replacement and they are hoping that Wenger picks his own replacement because they won't have to take any responsibility for it. And we know Wenger won't stand down because football is all he has, he does nothing else in his life and for all his noble proclamations that he'd go if he knew he could give no more, he knows deep down he wouldn't be able to give it all up.

[Power n Glory]

The Mirror have a report saying Arsene Wenger has been stunned by the level of abuse around the stadium. It's impossible to ignore and along with the empty seats around the ground. He may end up walking away if it continues so we really don't know what will happen at this rate.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This report seems more about villifying fans than anything, I wouldn't be surprised that it wasn't put out by the club as a way of briefing against fans so they can be dismissed as nasty malcontents.

There is a suggestion that Wenger was being called a c**t by fans near his dugout, but fans who have season tickets in this area have strenuously denied it and have suggested that there were calls for him to go, but no abusive language

[Marc Overmars]

I genuinely think he doesn't understand the extent of the frustration. He thinks he is doing a good job.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No he knows there is frustration, he just thinks that fans are fickle he has this constant and patronising mantra of "everyone has opinions" but because he is a football manager and we are not, his opinions matter and ours don't

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgY_z7EWQAAsRfl.jpg

Sackable offence at any other team

---
Pellegrini
CL semis
League Cup winner
3rd in EPL
3 goals v Chelsea in 90mins
Sacked

Wenger
4th in EPL
No EPL goal v Chelsea in 3 years
Safe

[Niall_Quinn]

This report seems more about villifying fans than anything, I wouldn't be surprised that it wasn't put out by the club as a way of briefing against fans so they can be dismissed as nasty malcontents.

There is a suggestion that Wenger was being called a c**t by fans near his dugout, but fans who have season tickets in this area have strenuously denied it and have suggested that there were calls for him to go, but no abusive language

I trust anyone shouting cunt at Wenger from the crowd would be rapidly dealt with by the fans around them. So I don't believe this story for a second. Sounds like the media has finally sensed blood in the water so it'll be a frenzy from here on. Free hand to make up whatever stories they want from their imaginary insiders.

I do believe the story about Wenger giving the players a bunch of time off though. The whole season has struck me as some bizarre energy conservation project.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I trust anyone shouting cunt at Wenger from the crowd would be rapidly dealt with by the fans around them. So I don't believe this story for a second. Sounds like the media has finally sensed blood in the water so it'll be a frenzy from here on. Free hand to make up whatever stories they want from their imaginary insiders.

I do believe the story about Wenger giving the players a bunch of time off though. The whole season has struck me as some bizarre energy conservation project.

I totally agree with you there

[Power n Glory]

I genuinely think he doesn't understand the extent of the frustration. He thinks he is doing a good job.

Marc did you go to the Palace game? What was the atmosphere like? Or were you at club level again? :lol:

[Letters]

Marc did you go to the Palace game? What was the atmosphere like? Or were you at club level again? :lol:

I bet the boos drowned out the string quartet :sulk:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Stayed away from the Emirates largely this season, the worst abuse I have ever heard Wenger subjected to was "spend some fucking money" which of course isn't abuse.

And as NQ states I think anyone subjecting Wenger to vitriolic abuse would have been called out for it by other fans at the Emirates, i went to the home game against Newcastle a week after the Stoke train station video was released and although there were Wenger out banners outside the ground the atmosphere was that it was totally unacceptable to shout that at the manager and as we played very well in that game there were even "one Arsene Wenger" chants in the stands.

[Power n Glory]

This report seems more about villifying fans than anything, I wouldn't be surprised that it wasn't put out by the club as a way of briefing against fans so they can be dismissed as nasty malcontents.

There is a suggestion that Wenger was being called a c**t by fans near his dugout, but fans who have season tickets in this area have strenuously denied it and have suggested that there were calls for him to go, but no abusive language

Where did you see that?

[Letters]

And as NQ states I think anyone subjecting Wenger to vitriolic abuse would have been called out for it by other fans at the Emirates.
And should be, IMO.
There are surely more constructive ways of protesting.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Where did you see that?

Twittersphere......i know the article doesn't actually say what was said.

It doesn't matter because I don't believe it was said anyway

[Marc Overmars]

Marc did you go to the Palace game? What was the atmosphere like? Or were you at club level again? :lol:

I was sitting in club level for the game but there was next to no atmosphere throughout the stadium. Apart from the goal, the loudest the fans were all game was when the ref fell over and when Theo ran straight into his marker after coming on. The towel has well and truly been thrown in on this season.

The fans are too exasperated to even vent their anger, it's just resignation now.

[Munchies]

I was sitting in club level for the game but there was next to no atmosphere throughout the stadium. Apart from the goal, the loudest the fans were all game was when the ref fell over and when Theo ran straight into his marker after coming on. The towel has well and truly been thrown in on this season.


The Theo bit :haha:

£140k for that eh

As JR would say for this season, Somebody stop the goddamn match!

[Power n Glory]

I was sitting in club level for the game but there was next to no atmosphere throughout the stadium. Apart from the goal, the loudest the fans were all game was when the ref fell over and when Theo ran straight into his marker after coming on. The towel has well and truly been thrown in on this season.

The fans are too exasperated to even vent their anger.

I heard about that as well. Pathetic from Theo. But that was my general impression from the feedback. A lot of empty seats and no atmosphere.

[Power n Glory]

http://arseblog.com/2016/04/this-is-as-bad-as-its-ever-been-under-arsene-wenger/

From Arseblog. Sums it up really. Even he thinks we need to change manager. This part caught me.


There is likely to be a stark reminder of how poor performance is affecting the club when we play West Brom on Thursday. There were empty seats on Sunday, I suspect there’ll be even more for that game. I know that there are fewer people reading the blog, listening to the podcasts, and everything else. People are switching off.

Have to admit, I stopped tuning in to the podcast and blogs. Le Grove was also sayings there are loads of tickets up for resale each game. It looks like an organized boycott isn't even necessary. People are switching off.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://arseblog.com/2016/04/this-is-as-bad-as-its-ever-been-under-arsene-wenger/

From Arseblog. Sums it up really. Even he thinks we need to change manager. This part caught me.



Have to admit, I stopped tuning in to the podcast and blogs. Le Grove was also sayings there are loads of tickets up for resale each game. It looks like an organized boycott isn't even necessary. People are switching off.

Also from that blog:


Last summer was, in hindsight, a huge mistake. Wenger’s gamble on the fitness or ability to contribute of certain players has cost him badly. Not buying a single outfield player is something I’m positive he’d go back and change if he could.

But I don't agree with him. Wenger has already come out and spoken about the value of promoting from within, protecting the young players, etc. His usual code for shirking the transfer window. I don't think he regrets the summer at all. Rather, I suppose he views himself as desperately unlucky with the injury problems we have faced. Almost as if he's never seen the same, season after season.

We need a new Bergkamp or Ozil moment this summer, nothing else will do. There has to be a statement of intent from somebody at the club. Something that says we are in it and want to win it. Otherwise this all drifts on and with anything fan based (and increasingly fashion based) if you can't keep engaging the punters then you are going to fade out.

Of course that blog mentions what's really likely to engage us in the summer. Trying to get Ozil and Alexis to sign. If all they are promised is more of the same old shit then they'll be off and with no shortage of takers. A couple of fatal holes well below the waterline.

[adzzzbatch]

Also from that blog:



But I don't agree with him. Wenger has already come out and spoken about the value of promoting from within, protecting the young players, etc. His usual code for shirking the transfer window. I don't think he regrets the summer at all. Rather, I suppose he views himself as desperately unlucky with the injury problems we have faced. Almost as if he's never seen the same, season after season.

We need a new Bergkamp or Ozil moment this summer, nothing else will do. There has to be a statement of intent from somebody at the club. Something that says we are in it and want to win it. Otherwise this all drifts on and with anything fan based (and increasingly fashion based) if you can't keep engaging the punters then you are going to fade out.

Of course that blog mentions what's really likely to engage us in the summer. Trying to get Ozil and Alexis to sign. If all they are promised is more of the same old shit then they'll be off and with no shortage of takers. A couple of fatal holes well below the waterline.

Even if we did sign a big name I wouldn't trust Wenger to get the most out of him performance wise or in mentality and lets be honest we should have a team strong in the all the key areas after spending 150 million since 2013.

[selassie]

And you want Spurs to win the league.



It's fun making stuff up, isn't it?

https://static3.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/From+what+i+remeber+it+was+a+movie+scene+can+_7900 38e16dd758673455fced9badac98.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

Even if we did sign a big name I wouldn't trust Wenger to get the most out of him performance wise or in mentality and lets be honest we should have a team strong in the all the key areas after spending 150 million since 2013.

Yes but we'd have a big signing plus the buzz that would come from knowingpraying it was Wenger's last season.

[Power n Glory]

Also from that blog:



But I don't agree with him. Wenger has already come out and spoken about the value of promoting from within, protecting the young players, etc. His usual code for shirking the transfer window. I don't think he regrets the summer at all. Rather, I suppose he views himself as desperately unlucky with the injury problems we have faced. Almost as if he's never seen the same, season after season.

We need a new Bergkamp or Ozil moment this summer, nothing else will do. There has to be a statement of intent from somebody at the club. Something that says we are in it and want to win it. Otherwise this all drifts on and with anything fan based (and increasingly fashion based) if you can't keep engaging the punters then you are going to fade out.

Of course that blog mentions what's really likely to engage us in the summer. Trying to get Ozil and Alexis to sign. If all they are promised is more of the same old shit then they'll be off and with no shortage of takers. A couple of fatal holes well below the waterline.

Nah, not even a big signing can convince me. Sanchez has been off the boil this season and Ozil has been off the boil since January. It doesn’t sound like Wenger has learnt his lesson or has any regrets about the season either. Now the economist is making assumptions about how a Brexit could affect transfer dealings. We can stick that along with his theory on China’s financial might and inflating the transfer market. He has a thousand excuses already lined up like always. A statement of intent won’t come from him or the Board.

[fakeyank]

New players, big signings will do fuck all IF wenger is still the manager. In an ideal world, I'd love to see Messi and Ronaldo play for Wenger... I am fairly certain that we will struggle with them in the side too. Why? He'll probably play Messi in central defense and Ronaldo as GK. However since this is not possible, I can only point to 10 years of bizzare substitutions, tactics, formations and player management as a reason why new signings will not make a difference.

[dostoy]

I always think that when that Russian came to Chelsea in 2003, Wengers ideas changed completely.

We won't win anything else with him in charge, we are stale and need a big change.

[GP]

I always think that when that Russian came to Chelsea in 2003, Wengers ideas changed completely.



I think so too. He was building something really special here and the Russian spending changed everything. I don't know what changed in his mind but he went too far the other way. There's no coming back now.

[Letters]

In an ideal world, I'd love to see Messi and Ronaldo play for Wenger... I am fairly certain that we will struggle with them in the side too. Why? He'll probably play Messi in central defense and Ronaldo as GK..
:rolleyes:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

New players, big signings will do fuck all IF wenger is still the manager. In an ideal world, I'd love to see Messi and Ronaldo play for Wenger... I am fairly certain that we will struggle with them in the side too. Why? He'll probably play Messi in central defense and Ronaldo as GK. However since this is not possible, I can only point to 10 years of bizzare substitutions, tactics, formations and player management as a reason why new signings will not make a difference.

To be fair though, that can happen with a lot of managers. I don't think anyone is under any illusion that Luis Enrique is anything but an average manager, but he won the lot with Barca last season and is going through a meltdown with them this season.
Meltdown?...With a side where Messi, Neymar and Suarez have scored over 100 goals between them.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:rolleyes:

Exactly.

Everyone knows it should be Messi in goal.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think so too. He was building something really special here and the Russian spending changed everything. I don't know what changed in his mind but he went too far the other way. There's no coming back now.

We will never know. But even back then, our summers were more occupied by angst on keeping our players rather than on strengthening the team.

[Letters]

Exactly.

Everyone knows it should be Messi in goal.

:lol:

It's this sort of hyperbole which grates.

FY: "We wouldn't be any better with Messi, Wenger would just put him in goal".
Letters: "Well that's clearly bollox"
NQ: "There you go, sucking Wenger's cock again".

:blink:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol:

It's this sort of hyperbole which grates.

FY: "We wouldn't be any better with Messi, Wenger would just put him in goal".
Letters: "Well that's clearly bollox"
NQ: "There you go, sucking Wenger's cock again".

:blink:

You recognise it as Hyperbole and yet you get uptight when you jump in and correct it and someone suggests you are being a Wenger defender.

This is a message board not a scholarly debating society, you might read things that don't sit well with you. Best to take it with a pinch of salt.

[Letters]

:lol: I'm not expecting it to be scholarly, but following some basic tenets of logic and reason would help.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My point is so what if people are being exaggerated and hyperbolic in their opinion on Wenger?. Did he have a tryst with an English woman in his student days resulting in you?

You know full well that someone saying he'd put Messi in goal was clearly not meant literally

It's called venting, it's a result of exasperation and frustration. If you don't think there is anything adequate to debate in what is being said, don't debate.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

It's this sort of hyperbole which grates.

FY: "We wouldn't be any better with Messi, Wenger would just put him in goal".
Letters: "Well that's clearly bollox"
NQ: "There you go, sucking Wenger's cock again".

:blink:

FY: "We wouldn't be any better with Messi, Wenger would just put him in goal".
Letters: "Clearly he has delicious bollocks"
NQ: "There you go..."

[Letters]

:lol:

<_<

[Letters]

My point is so what if people are being exaggerated and hyperbolic in their opinion on Wenger?. Did he have a tryst with an English woman in his student days resulting in you?
No, it was a French woman, it resulted in Zim, he refused to pay maintenance and never saw Zim again.

[GP]

No, it was a French woman, it resulted in Zim, he refused to pay maintenance and never saw Zim again.

So Zim's last name is Neige...

[Kano]

:lol:

It's this sort of hyperbole which grates.

FY: "We wouldn't be any better with Messi, Wenger would just put him in goal".
Letters: "Well that's clearly bollox"
NQ: "There you go, sucking Wenger's cock again".

:blink:

Better a cocksucker than a pissant.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzQ42g6O2zI

[Niall_Quinn]

Better a cocksucker than a pissant.

Still crying :haha:

[fakeyank]

To be fair though, that can happen with a lot of managers. I don't think anyone is under any illusion that Luis Enrique is anything but an average manager, but he won the lot with Barca last season and is going through a meltdown with them this season.
Meltdown?...With a side where Messi, Neymar and Suarez have scored over 100 goals between them.

The difference is that most top level managers learn from their mistakes. Wenger on the other hand... forget about it!

It's the same BS of fitting square pegs in round holes, keeping faith on lifelong crocks and acquiring useless players (Kallstrom, Bischoff), conducting bizzare substitutions and many more.

[fakeyank]

You recognise it as Hyperbole and yet you get uptight when you jump in and correct it and someone suggests you are being a Wenger defender.

This is a message board not a scholarly debating society, you might read things that don't sit well with you. Best to take it with a pinch of salt.

:gp:

Defending Wenger to me is hyperbole. That grates me.. so I reply in hyperbole too. :lol:

[Letters]

You weren't replying TO anyone, you were just venting.
Which is fair enough, I suppose.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:gp:

Defending Wenger to me is hyperbole. That grates me.. so I reply in hyperbole too. :lol:

I appreciate that's what people do, whilst I think people's opinions of Wenger are too black and white for my taste I only debate people who deal in hyperbole out of boredom.

Although the differences in opinion over Wenger are largely superficial, everyone agrees he has to go.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger is a parody of himself now anyway, so a bit of hyperbole does no harm.

[Niall_Quinn]

Even the slagging off is getting boring now. Everything about this club is boring. Crusty old farts shuffling money, including the manager. We can moan and whinge but they are walking off with a ton of loot. I guess they'll survive the disappointment of our disapproval.

I would just like to see some decent football, between now and the end of the season. Is that absolutely too much to expect?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No it doesn't at all

But it amounts to an emotional reaction, a totally understandable one.

Without passion sometimes there is no drive to change things

I do think he will be looked upon more fondly when he's gone. People will form more objective opinions of his strengths and his failings. I don't think any conclusion will be reached other than that of someone who can't take the club forward would be reached, but it will be more nuanced I suppose.

I think what will ultimately be thought of Wenger is how risk adverse he was, I think if he'd tried different approaches, spent more money on players and still failed I think people would be less frustrated with him.

But it just seems puzzling, for a man determined to live and breathe Arsenal football club and devote so many hours of his life here to make little progress and seem unwilling to change things significantly in response to that, is not only damning it's quite bizarre.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I would just like to see some decent football, between now and the end of the season. Is that absolutely too much to expect?

Yes you are being incredibly selfish, thinking about yourself when poor Stan is still trying to find a way to get the contractors to get him that diamond studded driveway to his new Texas ranch.

[fakeyank]

I do think he will be looked upon more fondly when he's gone.

Many recent polls have shown that people look upto George W fondly since his departure, so you have a very good point there.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes you are being incredibly selfish, thinking about yourself when poor Stan is still trying to find a way to get the contractors to get him that diamond studded driveway to his new Texas ranch.

So no chance of the players kicking in a bit of effort before they go off on their holidays? Do they need more money? Would that get us a decent 90 minutes?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So no chance of the players kicking in a bit of effort before they go off on their holidays? Do they need more money? Would that get us a decent 90 minutes?

They don't want anymore money for the time being, they aren't that Greedy

But seriously if your boss gives you Monday off, are you going to come in anyway to prepare for a meeting on Thursday that you don't care about?.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Still crying :haha:

Vroom vroom!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Even the slagging off is getting boring now. Everything about this club is boring. Crusty old farts shuffling money, including the manager. We can moan and whinge but they are walking off with a ton of loot. I guess they'll survive the disappointment of our disapproval.

I would just like to see some decent football, between now and the end of the season. Is that absolutely too much to expect?

There is no fucking way you or anyone else is expecting that at all.

The fact that there is near zero expectation of even an attempt at a professional approach to the end of the season tells you everything you need to know about the pathetic culture at this money making enterprise.

[Munchies]

:popcorn: for the attendance figures the club announce for the WBA game

[alexander]

:popcorn: for the attendance figures the club announce for the WBA game

I read on twitter they are going on general sale. People are staying away.

[Bumble]

:popcorn: for the attendance figures the club announce for the WBA game

I think attendance figures are based on tickets sold as opposed to actual attendance... so if a season ticket is sold that counts whether they turn up or not. Unless that has changed but I am sure that is how it used to be calculated at Arsenal.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No you're right, that's exactly how it's determined

But it won't escape anyone's notice when you can hear dogs barking outside the ground on Thursday.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah attendance figures are always based on how many seats were sold and not if anyone is actually sitting in them. The empty seats tomorrow will make a mockery of it though.

[Niall_Quinn]

Perhaps the seats will be empty because the fans are injured? Or maybe the gypos tapped up our fans using their unfair financial advantage? Or maybe the fans lack a little bit sharpness and therefore haven't turned up. Maybe they lack a little bit excellent spirit and togetherness for reasons that simply can't be known.

[adzzzbatch]

They haven't been announcing attendance at games for a while when it became clear to everyone that it was just a farce saying 59,000 when there were thousands of empty seats.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Perhaps the seats will be empty because the fans are injured? Or maybe the gypos tapped up our fans using their unfair financial advantage? Or maybe the fans lack a little bit sharpness and therefore haven't turned up. Maybe they lack a little bit excellent spirit and togetherness for reasons that simply can't be known.

People will not be attending because everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home

[GP]

Not me my wife is fuck ugly.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Perhaps the seats will be empty because the fans are injured? Or maybe the gypos tapped up our fans using their unfair financial advantage? Or maybe the fans lack a little bit sharpness and therefore haven't turned up. Maybe they lack a little bit excellent spirit and togetherness for reasons that simply can't be known.

I'm saving myself for the Cup Final.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not me my wife is fuck ugly.

take the begging bowl elsewhere pal, you married her

[Power n Glory]

Well, if it stays like this and seats stay empty we at least know a boycott is effective. There has always been a fear that those empty seats would be taken up in no time.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Maybe but if you have an owner who only cares about money, if most of these seats are already paid for. Why would an absentee owner care a damn if the stadium is half empty?. Probably just use it as an excuse to move us to somewhere else in the country like he did with the Rams.
If we are talking over five years ago than I think the Board would probably think "Ok Arsene this isn't working let's think of an exit strategy". But they have essentially no power, if Kroenke wants Wenger to stay only Wenger gets to say "ok this is enough now".

Wenger will be determined not to go out like that and will believe he can win the fans back but without making the changes necessary to win them back, and as has been discussed even if he thought he could do no more he can't let go so will carry on in the job.

[Power n Glory]

That's an assumption. The empty seats have caught Wenger's attention at least and we'll see if that translate into lower season ticket and membership renewals than usual. But if the seats stay empty maybe you've overestimated the demand for tickets and how far the apathy travels.

[Niall_Quinn]

Share price is what needs to be attacked if you want to get at Kroenke. How can the share price be impacted? The fat Russian kills us because it looks like he's prepared to pay well over the odds to get his hands on every share he can. The leech Kroenke is protected from every angle. Amazing how desirable this club is to grubby money grabbers but of how little interest it is to football fans.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's an assumption. The empty seats have caught Wenger's attention at least and we'll see if that translate into lower season ticket and membership renewals than usual. But if the seats stay empty maybe you've overestimated the demand for tickets and how far the apathy travels.

Given that I've never had a conversation with Stanley Enos Kroenke it is of course an assumption

But it's one based on his attitude as a sports owner across the Atlantic

Now you mention Wenger, and of course he's aware of it unless he's blind which would explain a lot

But as I've stated (as a matter of supposition I should add) Wenger won't like the idea of leaving on a low, has nothing in his life that will replace the hours he puts into the club and obviously still believes he can deliver.

Now if I suppose that Kroenke doesn't give a fuck as long as his bottom line isn't affected, and that Wenger feels a misguided obligation to the club to stay. Then it's not unreasonable to suppose that it won't make any difference.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Share price is what needs to be attacked if you want to get at Kroenke. How can the share price be impacted? The fat Russian kills us because it looks like he's prepared to pay well over the odds to get his hands on every share he can. The leech Kroenke is protected from every angle. Amazing how desirable this club is to grubby money grabbers but of how little interest it is to football fans.

Having Arsenal as an asset is probably more valuable to Kroenke than the money he can make from selling his shares even at many times more than what they are worth.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Share price is what needs to be attacked if you want to get at Kroenke. How can the share price be impacted? The fat Russian kills us because it looks like he's prepared to pay well over the odds to get his hands on every share he can. The leech Kroenke is protected from every angle. Amazing how desirable this club is to grubby money grabbers but of how little interest it is to football fans.

Having Arsenal as an asset is probably more valuable to Kroenke than the money he can make from selling his shares even at many times more than what they are worth.

[Niall_Quinn]

Having Arsenal as an asset is probably more valuable to Kroenke than the money he can make from selling his shares even at many times more than what they are worth.

I bet he's already leveraged that value and intends to do so in the future. That's why the share price is key. If there was some way to force that right down it would be like kicking the bastard in the bollocks. But of course with all the money pouring into the game the share price is far more likely to surge. And who is the best manager that money can buy when it comes to keeping a football club on a nice, sound financial footing?

We're doomed.

[Niall_Quinn]

...when asked about his future, Wenger - speaking at his press conference ahead of the West Brom clash - said: 'I do not want to comment on that. I always respect my contract.'

Wenger has insisted his main focus is to secure third place and he has been pleased with the performances despite drawing their last two matches - against West Ham and Crystal Palace. 'It is important of course. We want to win our games, instead of focusing on the table I think it is very important to focus on the process and quality of what we do.

'At the moment that is frustrating as there is a lot of quality in our game, but we have not exactly got the wins that we wanted. We have to focus on that.

'We are not there yet. We want to finish as high as we can. It is not a consolation, it is about getting the best out of the team and focusing and giving everything in every single game. We need to show we have the mental level to compete until the end.

Don't focus on the table lads, instead focus on the quality of what we do... Oh... Wait! :doh:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It does annoy me how the journalists think they represent the fan base and then ask ridiculous questions like

"If you had a chance would you like to take the oportunity to explain your decision making to the fans, for instance substitutions during games?"

"No"

What a ridiculous fucking question, no manager is going to justify decisions like that to fans because as Wenger says it's never ending.
Frankly the less Wenger says to the fans the better, his attitude in the press conference despite what people think is not deluded it's just utterly contemptible complacency, "well they are throwing a strop again....we can't force them to come to games....but they'll be back....where else are they going to go".


Wenger thinks the fan base is fickle, he's the only one capable of detached rational judgement and we are a bunch of pouting girls on our periods.

[Niall_Quinn]

It does annoy me how the journalists think they represent the fan base and then ask ridiculous questions like

"If you had a chance would you like to take the oportunity to explain your decision making to the fans, for instance substitutions during games?"

"No"

What a ridiculous fucking question, no manager is going to justify decisions like that to fans because as Wenger says it's never ending.
Frankly the less Wenger says to the fans the better, his attitude in the press conference despite what people think is not deluded it's just utterly contemptible complacency, "well they are throwing a strop again....we can't force them to come to games....but they'll be back....where else are they going to go".


Wenger thinks the fan base is fickle, he's the only one capable of detached rational judgement and we are a bunch of pouting girls on our periods.

I'm beginning to wonder if he is still the right man for the job.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm beginning to wonder if he is still the right man for the job.

How can you say such things?

Back to work in the fields prole, and don't let the masters hear you talking that way.

[Niall_Quinn]

How can you say such things?

Back to work in the fields prole, and don't let the masters hear you talking that way.

I'm fickle. One decade I'll say one thing, the next decade I'll say the total opposite.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm fickle. One decade I'll say one thing, the next decade I'll say the total opposite.

That's why your not a master

That and you don't descend from a line of robber barons presumably

[Bumble]

Wenger has said he won't walk away from his contract. He just makes it sound like he is doing us a favour by staying on.

[Power n Glory]

Given that I've never had a conversation with Stanley Enos Kroenke it is of course an assumption

But it's one based on his attitude as a sports owner across the Atlantic

Now you mention Wenger, and of course he's aware of it unless he's blind which would explain a lot

But as I've stated (as a matter of supposition I should add) Wenger won't like the idea of leaving on a low, has nothing in his life that will replace the hours he puts into the club and obviously still believes he can deliver.

Now if I suppose that Kroenke doesn't give a fuck as long as his bottom line isn't affected, and that Wenger feels a misguided obligation to the club to stay. Then it's not unreasonable to suppose that it won't make any difference.

What grates most about these conversations is the assumption of how certain parties will react whenever this conversation is brought up. It really grates. Of course you've never spoken to Kronke or Wenger but you talk as if you have. It boils back to previous conversations. For starters, if the West Brom game attendance stays low and demand isn't that high for the game and we see the same pattern over the next few games, we can stop repeating this assumption that once you leave your seat someone else will be happy to take your place. We really don't know how far this feeling of apathy towards the club stretches and that goes back to the original point I made. We had the same conversation a week back. Wait and see what happens.

We really don't know what Wenger is thinking and even though he's likely to see out his contract, we have no idea if he'll sign an extension. The assumptions about where is mind will be in a years time or even come end of the season is a stretch. Most of what's said on here is guess work and hypothetical. I don't really have a problem with that. But it's this attitude of 'everything is hopeless' and telling people what is effective and what's not that bugs me. We really don't know what is effective because we've been doing the same thing for the past 10 years or so.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Takafumi Ogura. It worked last time, for the first ten years at least.

[Dicks and chicks]

martin o neil

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What grates most about these conversations is the assumption of how certain parties will react whenever this conversation is brought up. It really grates. Of course you've never spoken to Kronke or Wenger but you talk as if you have. It boils back to previous conversations. For starters, if the West Brom game attendance stays low and demand isn't that high for the game and we see the same pattern over the next few games, we can stop repeating this assumption that once you leave your seat someone else will be happy to take your place. We really don't know how far this feeling of apathy towards the club stretches and that goes back to the original point I made. We had the same conversation a week back. Wait and see what happens.

We really don't know what Wenger is thinking and even though he's likely to see out his contract, we have no idea if he'll sign an extension. The assumptions about where is mind will be in a years time or even come end of the season is a stretch. Most of what's said on here is guess work and hypothetical. I don't really have a problem with that. But it's this attitude of 'everything is hopeless' and telling people what is effective and what's not that bugs me. We really don't know what is effective because we've been doing the same thing for the past 10 years or so.

That's quite a rant, I used the word supposition quite deliberately to impose that this was my opinion and that I wasn't purporting my opinion as fact.

But the one thing I will ask you, is watch Wengers press conference and tell me if this is a man who looks or sounds concerned about this.

[Power n Glory]

Send me a link to a specific one where you think he looks unconcerned. I just watched the Palace game post conference. I can't really tell how Wenger feels from that because it's a press conference and how his reactions may just be based off his hate and annoyance of having to explain himself. You allude to that point in a previous post on this thread. I really don't know what's going on in his head during a press conference. Does anyone? But it's irrelevant. Does it matter whether he shows signs of concern or not in a press conference? Should that deter people from staying away from games?

Also, if Stan only cares about the bottom line and notices a drop in season ticket prices and sponsors express concern about the empty seats, who knows what can happen.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Send me a link to a specific one where you think he looks unconcerned. I just watched the Palace game post conference. I can't really tell how Wenger feels from that because it's a press conference and how his reactions may just be based off his hate and annoyance of having to explain himself. You allude to that point in a previous post on this thread. I really don't know what's going on in his head during a press conference. Does anyone? But it's irrelevant. Does it matter whether he shows signs of concern or not in a press conference? Should that deter people from staying away from games?

Also, if Stan only cares about the bottom line and notices a drop in season ticket prices and sponsors express concern about the empty seats, who knows what can happen.

The pre match interview for tonight's game can be found on skysports website

You seem to be fixated with the idea that I'm trying to deter people from staying away from games. If people want to do that, than I applaude them for their stance but I'm yet to be convinced that it will have any effect.....it of course remains to be seen and the only way to know for sure is by people staying away. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but the pre match conference appeared to confirm my suspicion that provided the tickets are paid for Wenger and Kroenke seem unconcerned by absenteeism.
Will that change if (and that's a big if) people choose not to renew their season tickets.....and it starts happening on a more frequent basis....possibly.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger seems perplexed. He keeps saying we have the right players and have done the right things, but we keep on getting the wrong results. He doesn't know how to fix it. He can't understand why we aren't top of the league. Things like possession and technical performance and fitness, these are the things he focuses on and believes win games. He never talks about guts or backs to the wall or bottle, never mentions them. But these are also things you need to win and if you don't have them and don't appreciate them then I guess it must be a mystery when all your technical work and GPS vests and precise injections of broccoli come up short.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Posession is about quality not quantity

It's about playing not just to your strengths but the weakness of your oponents

I think Wenger understands this as well because there are games where it looks like we've executed a master plan. We score at opportune times, and play with discipline to protect our advantage. But all too often we revert to type.

My view of this would be against the top teams we have to have a game plan but against the lesser lights we just need to turn up, which is of course neglecting that there really aren't many lesser lights in the league.

This shows the contrast between the excellent way we dealt with United at the Emirates, to the haphazard complacency we showed at Old Trafford because we assumed they were there for the taking being in such bad form with so many injuries, they were top of the league when we played them in October.

[Power n Glory]

The pre match interview for tonight's game can be found on skysports website

You seem to be fixated with the idea that I'm trying to deter people from staying away from games. If people want to do that, than I applaude them for their stance but I'm yet to be convinced that it will have any effect.....it of course remains to be seen and the only way to know for sure is by people staying away. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but the pre match conference appeared to confirm my suspicion that provided the tickets are paid for Wenger and Kroenke seem unconcerned by absenteeism.
Will that change if (and that's a big if) people choose not to renew their season tickets.....and it starts happening on a more frequent basis....possibly.

Ok, I just watched that press conference and what is there to really make of those comments? What reaction are you expecting? He has said the fans unhappy affects him and that he questions himself everyday, whether he does that, I don’t know. Where he seemed irked the most was that last question from the journalist where he was pretty blunt. You mentioned that part in a previous post and he seemed more irritated by the question rather than be offended by fans wanting answers.

This is a good pieces from Stillman on Arseblog and this particular part sums it up.
http://arseblog.com/2016/04/director-of-the-bored/


If Arsene told Ivan Gazidis tomorrow that he would like to sign a new contract, the papers would be under his nose before he could finish the sentence. That is an uncontroversial assumption I think. That Wenger has not done so suggests that he is biding his time and his decision will probably rest on the amount of grief he is getting this time next year.

He has virtually admitted that he would not have renewed his last contract had the Gunners lost to Hull City in the 2014 FA Cup Final. It seems unlikely that somebody with Wenger’s perspective would stake his ability; or his belief in his ability, on a single match like that. It’s more likely that he would have just found the long term tumult unbearable in defeat. So when Ivan Gazidis infamously muttered that Wenger was accountable to the fans, he probably wasn’t being as cute as we thought.

It surprised everyone when Wenger said this year he would have stepped away if we had lost the FA Cup. He’s never hinted that before, so again, we really don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes with him. I can understand the pessimism but the press conference didn’t confirm anything at all.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ok, I just watched that press conference and what is there to really make of those comments? What reaction are you expecting? He has said the fans unhappy affects him and that he questions himself everyday, whether he does that, I don’t know. Where he seemed irked the most was that last question from the journalist where he was pretty blunt. You mentioned that part in a previous post and he seemed more irritated by the question rather than be offended by fans wanting answers.

This is a good pieces from Stillman on Arseblog and this particular part sums it up.
http://arseblog.com/2016/04/director-of-the-bored/



It surprised everyone when Wenger said this year he would have stepped away if we had lost the FA Cup. He’s never hinted that before, so again, we really don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes with him. I can understand the pessimism but the press conference didn’t confirm anything at all.

He pretty much intimated that he thought the fans reaction was an emotional one and that he looks at things coldly and logically, and he intimated that we were being fickle and we would be back soon enough.

His reaction was "well we can't stop them from not coming" when in fact he can, even if he still believes he's the man for the job he could say "I respect we have disappointed supporters this season, I can guarantee you whilst that was in no way intentional, that I will do what is in my power to win back their favour".

Instead of essentially "well they'll be back when they've finished throwing a strop"

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I too have pointed to the fact that Wenger has intimated he would walk away from the club had he not won the FA cup, I think a grand gesture like that is easy to make in hindsight. I have doubts (and I've never suggested they are anything more concrete than that) that he would practise what he preaches, I have a feeling that he would not be able to extricate himself from power and arguably would need someone he respects to put his arm around his shoulder and say "Arsene it's not working".
I really hope I'm wrong, I'm not accusing Wenger of lacking integrity I just think after twenty years could he tear himself away so easily like that?.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger seems perplexed. He keeps saying we have the right players and have done the right things, but we keep on getting the wrong results. He doesn't know how to fix it. He can't understand why we aren't top of the league. Things like possession and technical performance and fitness, these are the things he focuses on and believes win games. He never talks about guts or backs to the wall or bottle, never mentions them. But these are also things you need to win and if you don't have them and don't appreciate them then I guess it must be a mystery when all your technical work and GPS vests and precise injections of broccoli come up short.

I think Wenger does mention those things. It’s just a different language. In most post game interviews he’ll use words like spirit, fight, mental strength….I think sometimes he focuses too much on those things and I rarely hear him talk in technical terms but then again, that could all be disguised in the language he uses. Playing with the handbrake may just mean we defended too deep and too cautious. I don’t know.

[Power n Glory]

He pretty much intimated that he thought the fans reaction was an emotional one and that he looks at things coldly and logically, and he intimated that we were being fickle and we would be back soon enough.

His reaction was "well we can't stop them from not coming" when in fact he can, even if he still believes he's the man for the job he could say "I respect we have disappointed supporters this season, I can guarantee you whilst that was in no way intentional, that I will do what is in my power to win back their favour".

Instead of essentially "well they'll be back when they've finished throwing a strop"

http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/10250926/wenger-not-concerned-by-empty-seats

This is the video I watched, so where are you getting that from? You're worst than a tabloid paper! :lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I got that from his attitude and the way he made his point, and again I'm just saying that's the impression I got.

I think he is insulting people's intelligence by claiming people are staying away because it's a Thursday. It's remarks like that, that you have to think "where are you coming from?.

[Marc Overmars]

He said people are staying away because it's a Thursday?! :lol:

[adzzzbatch]

He said people are staying away because it's a Thursday?! :lol:

Well Thursday is my quiz night :lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's my karaoke night

"PLEASE RESIGN WENGER, PLEASE JUST GO...FOR I DONT LOVE YOU ANYMORE!"

[Power n Glory]

I got that from his attitude and the way he made his point, and again I'm just saying that's the impression I got.

I think he is insulting people's intelligence by claiming people are staying away because it's a Thursday. It's remarks like that, that you have to think "where are you coming from?.

You’re trolling. :lol: I don’t know if anyone has watched the video but that’s not Wenger at his worse and it’s not something I’d read too much into. The soundbite you’ve picked out is the sort of thing a headline grabbing tabloid would do to try and whip up a frenzy. He also mentions it comes off the back of a defeat. I gather he mentions Thursday because it’s not a usual day for games to be played and off the back of a defeat it could have played a part. He agrees the unrest could be something more pronounced but he’s right to say it’s down to him and the team to turn that around. Is that him saying ‘fans are fickle’? I wouldn’t choose those words. I’d take this response from Wenger rather than him suggesting the atmosphere is effecting the players performances and ‘we need to stick together’ type response. It’s down to the players and him to turn that negativity around so I don’t have a problem with this response. I’ve seen worse. You're trolling.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Trolling would suggest that i am intentionally trying to wind people up

"Look everyone is free to do what he wants with his season ticket, we have to live with that"

"Yeah, maybe the disillusionment is more pronounced but we have to take that with distance as well"

"The emotional part in our game is always very high but changes very quickly"

That's not me trolling, that's me taking from this that his response to fans walking out is partly to blame the day (as if the fans wouldn't have turned out if we were still in the title hunt) and partly to shrug his shoulders and say "what you gonna do?"

Basically admitting that it is based on apathy due to the club's current form is not the same as acknowledging responsibility, the two quotes above suggest well this is an emotional reaction and people will soon get their emotions in check.....i'm not going to take it seriously because I take a distant, rational view of the situation.

Yes he does admit that it's down to him and the team to change those beliefs and judgement, but it still amounts to "well we will throw them a bit of red meat and they'll come back". It seems to me a very patronising and complacent response.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Am i perhaps reading too much into it?....there is always that danger, just the tone and choice of his words doesn't suggest to me a man particularly contrite or upset. Just a man forced merely to acknowledge that the fans are unhappy.
Do i expect him to justify everything he does?...No as i said earlier that question was ridiculous, but he knows that when talking to journalists he is indirectly addressing the fans and i do expect a bit more than begrudging acknowledgement by saying "yes they probably feel upset but that's emotion for you...."

[Power n Glory]

Yeah, I wouldn’t read too much into these particular comments. I don’t think he enjoys being grilled by the press but in this instances, I don’t think he’s being prickly, over defensive or sending a message to fans. I don’t think he’s been particularly selective about his words to suggest he’s being flippant or dismissive of the empty seats. I read a bit of Le Grove this morning and they have the same stance about the seating comments. I don’t see it. It’s just fanning the flames and there isn’t much to be getting upset about. Arseblog didn’t focus too much on it but I lean more on that side of this particular argument. I’m sure Wenger is aware of the unrest but he might as well quit now if he feels powerless to turn it around.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I spoke to Le Grove about this, i think he focused more on the "Thursday" factor as a sign of him being delusional.

I said he knows precisely what he's saying, and i said i thought it was more of a case of him showing a lack of concern over it.

If we win tonight, and there is still the same absenteeism against Norwich then it will be interesting to see how he responds.

https://mobile.twitter.com/cardifflegend/status/722841098842935301

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CggHJonW8AQAYlG.jpg

Hopefully a manager who can recognise where the team needs improvements and can motivate his players over a season.

[Power n Glory]

I spoke to Le Grove about this, i think he focused more on the "Thursday" factor as a sign of him being delusional.

I said he knows precisely what he's saying, and i said i thought it was more of a case of him showing a lack of concern over it.

If we win tonight, and there is still the same absenteeism against Norwich then it will be interesting to see how he responds.

https://mobile.twitter.com/cardifflegend/status/722841098842935301

I wouldn’t say it’s a lack of concern. It sounds to me like he’s aware of the problem and acknowledges that could be an issue but may also be cautious of the press running away with the story. Plus, he’s not offering up an excuse or shunning responsibility. It’s up to him and the team to respond on the pitch.

[Marc Overmars]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CggHJonW8AQAYlG.jpg

Hopefully a manager who can recognise where the team needs improvements and can motivate his players over a season.

Progress.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Again i acknowledge he said that, but again it sounds more to me like an empty promise which he has to make.

We could of course be entering the realm where whatever he says people will criticise him for, but fine he says we have an obligation to bring the fans back on side but i just feel that combined with unnecessary comments about Thursdays (if the game was a tuesday or wednesday would turnout be any higher?) and dismissively talking about the fans reaction as an emotional response shows a level of being more frustrated than the fans are getting above their station and making him answer awkward questions than concern that it's come as a result of him doing his job properly.

If he'd purely said "it's up to me as a manger to change the atmosphere at the club" whilst we all doubt he has the ability to do that, you'd think ok fair enough.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Progress.

I've always wondered about these sky sports graphics and images, especially the ones with the team news where the players walk towards the screen some nonchalantly and some with an air of menace.
Do they get the players and coaches to film this nonsense pre-season.....

"Arsene can you fold your arms and look a mixture of stern and studious?"

[selassie]

He said people are staying away because it's a Thursday?! :lol:

I found that amusing too, he just wont accept that a section of the Fanbase is unhappy with him and the way he is managing team.

[Kano]

Thursday's the new Friday tbh.

[Kano]

I've always wondered about these sky sports graphics and images, especially the ones with the team news where the players walk towards the screen some nonchalantly and some with an air of menace.
Do they get the players and coaches to film this nonsense pre-season.....

"Arsene can you fold your arms and look a mixture of stern and studious?"

You're not far off really...

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-06-22/how-to-ace-the-awkward-sky-sports-football-walk-to-camera

[GP]

You're not far off really...

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-06-22/how-to-ace-the-awkward-sky-sports-football-walk-to-camera

It's really bizarre. Just show a photo for gods sake.

And those weird sound effects whenever a graphic appears on screen.

Sky's production is really annoying.

[Kano]

It's really bizarre. Just show a photo for gods sake.

And those weird sound effects whenever a graphic appears on screen.

Sky's production is really annoying.

It's just American style bullshit. But, that's why so many people lap it up and why they keep growing every year.

Stick on enough bells and whistles and people will buy any old bollocks.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's really bizarre. Just show a photo for gods sake.

And those weird sound effects whenever a graphic appears on screen.

Sky's production is really annoying.

It's been a constant attempt to emulate the American format

Like in 1992/93 when they tried to introduce cheerleaders, aerobatic displays etc

"Just show the football"

[selassie]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgWtVOKWQAAujsl.jpg

Slightly off topic but still related, I think if lots of fans did this it would send out a strong message.

Some twitter link.

[Gooner23]

You're not far off really...

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-06-22/how-to-ace-the-awkward-sky-sports-football-walk-to-camera

The 'Arry arm crossing had me :lol:

[Gooner23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgWtVOKWQAAujsl.jpg

Slightly off topic but still related, I think if lots of fans did this it would send out a strong message.

Some twitter link.

Can't see it happening en mass. Probably just a few hundred people so won't stand out from the usual early leavers.

[Maestro]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgWtVOKWQAAujsl.jpg

Slightly off topic but still related, I think if lots of fans did this it would send out a strong message.

Some twitter link.

Fam, I'm just mad blud so I'm taking it into my own hands blud yi get mi fam? In unison fam in unison

[Maestro]

62 minutes on the mark, just as Wenger is making his clockwork substitution ...computer says leave the stadium

[Marc Overmars]

Arsenal 'too reliant on Arsene Wenger,' Andrey Arshavin says

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/10252477/arsenal-too-reliant-on-arsene-wenger-andrey-arshavin-says

[fakeyank]

Arsenal 'too reliant on Arsene Wenger,' Andrey Arshavin says

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/10252477/arsenal-too-reliant-on-arsene-wenger-andrey-arshavin-says

Its like saying the sun rises from the east everyday.

[I am invisible]

I'm not sure about all of this organised walkout stuff that's become the 'in thing' this season - it all just looks a bit melodramatic and flouncy, and on some level I think any kind of organised protest says that you still care quite deeply about what you're lashing out against.

I'm getting to the point now where I can't even be bothered giving up a couple of hours to watch us on TV, let alone go to a game, and if I were running the club then that kind of total apathy in our fanbase would scare the living shit out of me far more than a passionate protest! An angry mob might be an unpleasant thing to deal with, but at least it's present and giving you its attention - it's there to be won over. It's when the fans stop caring, and start finding better things to do with their time that you know you've got real problems...

[GP]

I'm not sure about all of this organised walkout stuff that's become the 'in thing' this season - it all just looks a bit melodramatic and flouncy, and on some level I think any kind of organised protest says that you still care quite deeply about what you're lashing out against.

I'm getting to the point now where I can't even be bothered giving up a couple of hours to watch us on TV, let alone go to a game, and if I were running the club then that kind of total apathy in our fanbase would scare the living shit out of me far more than a passionate protest! An angry mob might be an unpleasant thing to deal with, but at least it's present and giving you its attention - it's there to be won over. It's when the fans stop caring, and start finding better things to do with their time that you know you've got real problems...

The thing is, even if they do protest, what exactly are they protesting against?

At least the Liverpool walkout had a focus.

[fakeyank]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgWtVOKWQAAujsl.jpg

Slightly off topic but still related, I think if lots of fans did this it would send out a strong message.

Some twitter link.

That looks very well thought out. :rolleyes:

Whoever made that shouldve put in some extra effort.. their effort mirrors what is shown by our team. Go the extra mile and make something fruitful.. get some famous gooners on board and create a banner that looks like it was created by someone who at least knows more than MS Paint.

[Letters]

Its like saying the sun rises from the east everyday.

What, you mean not accurate as it's actually the Earth that rotates?

:cool:



:run:

[Letters]

It's been a constant attempt to emulate the American format

Like in 1992/93 when they tried to introduce cheerleaders, aerobatic displays etc

"Just show the football"
I was at the game when The Shamen played at half time.
BOOOOOOOOO!!!

:lol:

[Letters]

The thing is, even if they do protest, what exactly are they protesting against?

At least the Liverpool walkout had a focus.

We're here. We're queer. We don't want any more bears.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I was at the game when The Shamen played at half time.
BOOOOOOOOO!!!

:lol:


The problem there is to appreciate the shamen you have to have taken a lot of Ecstacy.

[I am invisible]

We're here. We're queer. We don't want any more bears.
Won't somebody please think of the children!

[pakgunner]

It may sound like sacrilege but Pochetino is the ideal man for the . Kill 2 birds with the one stone. His style would be perfect for the Arsenal, long term, young and he has done it in the epl.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It may sound like sacrilege but Pochetino is the ideal man for the . Kill 2 birds with the one stone. His style would be perfect for the Arsenal, long term, young and he has done it in the epl.

No it's not sacrilege it's just the definition of pissing into the wind

Why would he join us?

[Kano]

That looks very well thought out. :rolleyes:

Whoever made that shouldve put in some extra effort.. their effort mirrors what is shown by our team. Go the extra mile and make something fruitful.. get some famous gooners on board and create a banner that looks like it was created by someone who at least knows more than MS Paint.
Arsenal protests :lol:

[pakgunner]

The fact that he would be managing one of the biggest clubs in Europe with a better history and bank balance. Yes the spuds have done better this year but I can't see Pochetino staying at the spuds beyond 1 more season regardless of the success this year. He's in the same boat as all young and up and coming managers of Europe, they all want to manager the big clubs only a few clubs a ahead of us for recognition and that certainly isn't the spuds. Rumours of utd chasing him already has proven his worth.

[I am invisible]

That looks very well thought out. :rolleyes:

Whoever made that shouldve put in some extra effort.. their effort mirrors what is shown by our team. Go the extra mile and make something fruitful.. get some famous gooners on board and create a banner that looks like it was created by someone who at least knows more than MS Paint.

We used to churn out out quality protest material like the Adebayor brochure - now look at us!

[selassie]

The problem there is to appreciate the shamen you have to have taken a lot of Ecstacy.

E's are good! Ebeenzer Goode!

https://images.rapgenius.com/be5f443d51a6f863a24c8e0610e457b9.600x400x1.jpg

[selassie]

That looks very well thought out. :rolleyes:

Whoever made that shouldve put in some extra effort.. their effort mirrors what is shown by our team. Go the extra mile and make something fruitful.. get some famous gooners on board and create a banner that looks like it was created by someone who at least knows more than MS Paint.

:haha: I like the X over Wenger's face, it's a little bit wrong!

[Kano]

E's are good! Ebeenzer Goode!

https://images.rapgenius.com/be5f443d51a6f863a24c8e0610e457b9.600x400x1.jpg

Jerry Sadowitz :bow:

[I am invisible]

I've started thinking that the bigger issue than who comes next is how well each level of the club is working? When I look at clubs like Dortmund and Southampton, they seem to be able to absorb any number of changes and losses to their playing and coaching staff, and it never really seems to phase them - is that because they've worked out some magic formula to spotting the next great coach whenever they need one, or is it because the clubs themselves are so consistent with everything else they're producing that the role of the coach has become less important?

Which isn't to belittle the role of the head coach in any way - it's obviously still a critical part of any successful side - I just think the importance of the role has shifted, and become more akin to that of a key player or a club captain who doesn't play? Important, yes, but more easily interchangeable than the days of needing a club manager. Things like scouting, recruitment, youth development, fitness management, fundamental technical-coaching, and even a player's core attitude and mentality - these are all things that I feel should be intrinsically tied to, and defined by the club now, and not any one person. The role of the head coach should be to take what the club has produced, pick and choose the bits they need, and apply the finishing, tactical + motivational (+ disciplinary) touches.

This is where I have both hope and fear for life after Wenger. Hope because I think there's a world full of potential head coaches out there who would fit the above brief, so i'm not that fussed about there being an established big name available for us. Fear because I think we've let a lot of areas of this club slide quite badly, and I'm not sure the set-up is currently there to support this new way of operating?

On the plus side, the infrastructure is all there, so it should just be a question of recruiting the right personnel. It looks like the club do at least acknowledge that there's a number of areas that have been deficient (judging by the recent overhaul of the fitness and academy teams, our acquisition of this data / stats analysis doohickie for recruitment, and the way we're trying to poach Leicester's scouts), but I have no idea how long it will take to start seeing tangible improvements and benefits?