Match Reaction vs Sunderland (away)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

oh god, this is going to get really really ugly isn't it. What a complete joke of a press conference ....... no accountability.

The old codger doesn't seem like he's going anywhere unless things become violent and we're getting perilously close to that point. Come on Gazidis, show some cajones here.

Gazidis can't do anything, what do you think would actually happen if he tried to sack Wenger?

He'd lose his own job

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Gazidis can't do anything, what do you think would actually happen if he tried to sack Wenger?

He'd lose his own job

Then he should resign out of his volition if he had any integrity. Though I suspect the 1.5 million + bonuses annual salary would be too tempting to give up.

What a mess we're in.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Principle is an easy thing when you have nothing to lose, distance yourself away from being a fan of the club.....if you were a chief executive of a business where you were the boss of someone who hired you who was subsequently under performing......even though the shareholders were happy with this guy and like you say you are earning a pretty penny.....what possible motive have you to put that in jeopardy.

We want him to be a man of principle because it suits our ends, but realistically we can't expect him to be.

[Power n Glory]

This was predictable. He'll keep digging his own grave and eventually hang himself because he has no idea how to respond in these sort of situations. He'll turn on former players, the fans and will just end up being hounded out. He probably won't sign a new contract and make out as if he has been wronged. No need for him to be sacked. If this goes on the idiot will walk off in a sulk.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You hope

I fear he's adapting the Millwall mentality

"nobody likes me, i don't care"

And frankly it's very Mourinho esque to make scathing remarks about those who criticise.

[fakeyank]

Arsene Wenger is a slow moving car crash. I am just taking joy in his meltdown.. :popcorn:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Arsene Wenger is a slow moving car crash. I am just taking joy in his meltdown.. :popcorn:

Really??

What's to enjoy?...his job is no less safe than it was before hand, all it proves is that this is a man who doesn't believe he is responsible for this season's failure and won't be open to changing anything around next season. Now of course all of us knew this, but it's nice to have that little period of time where we can delude ourselves that this time things will change it's a bit too horrible to have it confirmed before the season ends that it won't.

[fakeyank]

Really??

What's to enjoy?...his job is no less safe than it was before hand, all it proves is that this is a man who doesn't believe he is responsible for this season's failure and won't be open to changing anything around next season. Now of course all of us knew this, but it's nice to have that little period of time where we can delude ourselves that this time things will change it's a bit too horrible to have it confirmed before the season ends that it won't.

To me, I know he is likely to be here next season. My enjoyment comes from seeing the fans turn against him. I remember being in London in 2013 and talking to some Gooners on the train. They were all friendly till I told them that I wanted Wenger out.. they literally looked at me like I raped their cat. No logical reasoning or facts made sense to them. It was like I was speaking Bengali to them.. it gives me lots of pleasure to see these very fans turn against him.

I also take tremendous pleasure in seeing Wenger literally ruin his legacy one brick at a time. Why do I dislike him so much? Because to me, he has been trolling the fans for a decade.. many people's eyes have only just opened this season because of Leicester and Tottenham. Perhaps one of the main reasons I want Tottenham to finish above us (If Leicester wins the title).

[Power n Glory]

You hope

I fear he's adapting the Millwall mentality

"nobody likes me, i don't care"

And frankly it's very Mourinho esque to make scathing remarks about those who criticise.

In the past when he's been under pressure, he's made threats in the press about joining Real Madrid. When Dein left, the story is he asked Dein if he should resign. We also heard about the FA Cup thing this year. I don't think he'd sign a new deal if it stayed like this. Also, the Board would be forced into a position if seats stay empty. Looks bad for the brand and sponsors.

[Munchies]

To me, I know he is likely to be here next season. My enjoyment comes from seeing the fans turn against him. I remember being in London in 2013 and talking to some Gooners on the train. They were all friendly till I told them that I wanted Wenger out.. they literally looked at me like I raped their cat. No logical reasoning or facts made sense to them. It was like I was speaking Bengali to them.. it gives me lots of pleasure to see these very fans turn against him.

I also take tremendous pleasure in seeing Wenger literally ruin his legacy one brick at a time. Why do I dislike him so much? Because to me, he has been trolling the fans for a decade.. many people's eyes have only just opened this season because of Leicester and Tottenham. Perhaps one of the main reasons I want Tottenham to finish above us (If Leicester wins the title).

:gp:

I just want him gone. Fucking go now FFS.

What are we getting now? Constant shit year in year out, same old problems, no acceptance of any fault, always fingers pointed at everyone else except himself. I'd rather have a new manager who has a go at teams, instills belief in the team and the fans. I hate what we're getting now, pass pass pass pass sideways pass again sideways lose the ball.

With his comments, no one can even blame Kroenke now, it's all on him!

Just fuck off already

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

In the past when he's been under pressure, he's made threats in the press about joining Real Madrid. When Dein left, the story is he asked Dein if he should resign. We also heard about the FA Cup thing this year. I don't think he'd sign a new deal if it stayed like this. Also, the Board would be forced into a position if seats stay empty. Looks bad for the brand and sponsors.

Maybe but there is a difference between threats and following through with things

Its easy for him to say in Hindsight that he would have left if the club hadn't won the FA cup, but the thing is we did and therefore it becomes an empty statement

The same with the Dein thing, yes I also heard he offered to resign but I don't think for a second he'd have expected Dein to say anything other than "No, the club needs you". If he was serious about resigning he would have done it I think.

But as with many other things, we won't know until the time comes. My fear is that Wenger will just continue to use any protest by the fans as an excuse for poor results but then again if the bottom line is just their interest in their bottom line than as you say the sponsors may force their hand.

Don't you just wish it was 2017 already?.....well actually no it means i'll be a year older.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To me, I know he is likely to be here next season. My enjoyment comes from seeing the fans turn against him. I remember being in London in 2013 and talking to some Gooners on the train. They were all friendly till I told them that I wanted Wenger out.. they literally looked at me like I raped their cat. No logical reasoning or facts made sense to them. It was like I was speaking Bengali to them.. it gives me lots of pleasure to see these very fans turn against him.

I also take tremendous pleasure in seeing Wenger literally ruin his legacy one brick at a time. Why do I dislike him so much? Because to me, he has been trolling the fans for a decade.. many people's eyes have only just opened this season because of Leicester and Tottenham. Perhaps one of the main reasons I want Tottenham to finish above us (If Leicester wins the title).

Hmmm that doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever but if that's what makes you happy who am i to question it

I have always been more fluid in my opinion of Wenger, when things go bad he aggravates me immensely but ultimately i've been prepared to give him more time than I should, and actually considering there was nothing i could do to influence him being at the club one way or the other it was easier to make my peace with it.

I think now is different, even if for no other reason than his age.....i think anyone wanting him to stay seems a bit short termist...like they are putting off a decision that will have to be made sooner rather than later anyway.

I have no personal interest in seeing Wenger ruining his legacy, if he succeeds Arsenal succeeds it's as simple as that...it's the fact that he isn't succeeding that i want him to go.

[Power n Glory]

Watched the video of the press conference on YouTube and what he said about the home fans was unprovoked. He wasn't baited into saying that it just seemed like he a lot to get off his chest.

I don't think his ego would allow him to destroy all that he's built over the years. If he wants to leave with a sense of pride and achievement, I can't see him staying to watch things fall apart because of his own doing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No you are right it was unprovoked the question that was asked was about the team's form, he did have a dig at the fans group in a separate question as well.

The thing is I don't imagine him making such comments even a couple of years ago, now in reference to his ego it might mean he thinks I'm not going to stay when i'm not appreciated or it might make him dig his heels in and think i'm not the problem the fans are, my employers are happy with me and that's what matters.

It's hard to think that the latter would be a tenable position to take long term, but it would be hard to think that he'd turn on Arsenal fans the way he has.

[Munchies]

Seen these extra quotes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36172291

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger claims his commitment to the club helped secure the bank loans required to fund the Emirates Stadium.

Fans are set to protest this weekend after a disappointing season that has seen the Gunners' Premier League title challenge fade.

"When we built the stadium the banks demanded that I signed for five years," said the 66-year-old Frenchman.

"Do you want me to say how many clubs I turned down during that period?"


However, Wenger said his critics had gone "too far".

He added: "I did commit and I stayed, and under very difficult circumstances.

"So for me to come back and, on top of that, (critics) reproach me for not having won the championship during that period, it is a bit overboard."

:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

This is a critical time. If the media supports him they'll let this slide and it will all be forgotten once the stupidity of the transfer window commences (that's another crisis and maybe even a welcome one for Wenger this time around). But if the media decide to go with this then I think he might be done. It's plain enough to see he's delusional. Wrapped up in his own world. He has no facts, no valid excuses, nobody to blame considering just about everyone told him what was going to happen when he went into this season unprepared as usual. Everything he's saying is lame and more people are starting to see that. What will our ridiculous board do? Are they going to stick with this fantasist and expose their intentions for the club to even greater scrutiny? Because if Wenger starts taking serious flak then it won't be long before Kroenke gets the same heat and with his track record that isn't going to be pretty. I also imagine there are a ton of fans from his franchises over in the States who will be only to happy to chime in if a new front is opened in the UK against this greedy goodfornothing bastard. He might have to get rid of Wenger just to cover his own fat arse. We're about to see how far the support for Wenger goes.

[Letters]

Hmmm that doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever but if that's what makes you happy who am i to question it

I have always been more fluid in my opinion of Wenger, when things go bad he aggravates me immensely but ultimately i've been prepared to give him more time than I should, and actually considering there was nothing i could do to influence him being at the club one way or the other it was easier to make my peace with it.

I think now is different, even if for no other reason than his age.....i think anyone wanting him to stay seems a bit short termist...like they are putting off a decision that will have to be made sooner rather than later anyway.

I have no personal interest in seeing Wenger ruining his legacy, if he succeeds Arsenal succeeds it's as simple as that...it's the fact that he isn't succeeding that i want him to go.
:gp:

I find FYs comments bizarre. Troubling, actually. He seems to feel about Wenger how I feel about Mourinho - and I do recognise that my almost visceral dislike of him is unhealthy.
The 'last decade' argument is lazy and simplistic, it doesn't take into account how our (literal) fortunes have changed in the last few years. And yes, the (relative) lack of money prior to that doesn't absolve Wenger of blame but it does mitigate it somewhat. The last few years the money has been there to compete with anyone so we should judge him by different standards.
The first year we won the FA Cup. No serious title challenge but it finally got that monkey off our back and gave us hope of greater things to come. The start of last season was a car crash, we were out of the title race before the first bend. Wenger should probably have been sacked for that but we did at least get it together, easily finish top 3 and retained the FA Cup. And some of the wins in big games or against teams we traditionally struggle again did give some cause for hope.
FY has accused me of getting too excited by 'a few wins', but it wasn't just a few wins. We were calendar year champions in 2015. I'm not claiming that as a trophy :rolleyes: but it does demonstrate a long run of form good enough to seriously challenge for a title. IMO there was an argument to give Wenger once last chance at the title and it's been a car crash. So yes, he should go. But the worst you can say about him is he's lost it and is no longer able to compete at the top level. But there's no doubt in my mind that he has always done what he thinks is best for the club, both short and long term.
I can understand fans' anger and frustration at seeing yet another failure. I share some of that. I will never understand the level of hatred and vitriol aimed at Wenger though. Clough (who was, if anything, more arrogant than Wenger) lost it to the point where he ended up taking Forest down and I don't think he ever got this level of abuse. At worst Wenger has presided over us slipping from the best team to the 3rd or 4th best. Is that good enough, given expectation levels (which, remember, he has set - we never had these expectations from the club before Wenger)? No, it isn't. Does it deserve this level of abuse? I don't think so.

And yes, Wenger and Arsenal's fortunes are entirely entwined. Enjoying one implies enjoying both which demonstrates an unhealthy level of dislike for someone. It's a bit like enjoying watching your wife being raped because you dislike the person doing it so much and know it means you can see them put in prison. Bizarre.

[Globalgunner]

Rubbish
. What matters here is what is best for the club. Wenger clearly isnt that. The staus quo is what is best for him. Let him GTFO

[fakeyank]

:gp:

I find FYs comments bizarre. Troubling, actually. He seems to feel about Wenger how I feel about Mourinho - and I do recognise that my almost visceral dislike of him is unhealthy.
The 'last decade' argument is lazy and simplistic, it doesn't take into account how our (literal) fortunes have changed in the last few years. And yes, the (relative) lack of money prior to that doesn't absolve Wenger of blame but it does mitigate it somewhat. The last few years the money has been there to compete with anyone so we should judge him by different standards.
The first year we won the FA Cup. No serious title challenge but it finally got that monkey off our back and gave us hope of greater things to come. The start of last season was a car crash, we were out of the title race before the first bend. Wenger should probably have been sacked for that but we did at least get it together, easily finish top 3 and retained the FA Cup. And some of the wins in big games or against teams we traditionally struggle again did give some cause for hope.
FY has accused me of getting too excited by 'a few wins', but it wasn't just a few wins. We were calendar year champions in 2015. I'm not claiming that as a trophy :rolleyes: but it does demonstrate a long run of form good enough to seriously challenge for a title. IMO there was an argument to give Wenger once last chance at the title and it's been a car crash. So yes, he should go. But the worst you can say about him is he's lost it and is no longer able to compete at the top level. But there's no doubt in my mind that he has always done what he thinks is best for the club, both short and long term.
I can understand fans' anger and frustration at seeing yet another failure. I share some of that. I will never understand the level of hatred and vitriol aimed at Wenger though. Clough (who was, if anything, more arrogant than Wenger) lost it to the point where he ended up taking Forest down and I don't think he ever got this level of abuse. At worst Wenger has presided over us slipping from the best team to the 3rd or 4th best. Is that good enough, given expectation levels (which, remember, he has set - we never had these expectations from the club before Wenger)? No, it isn't. Does it deserve this level of abuse? I don't think so.

And yes, Wenger and Arsenal's fortunes are entirely entwined. Enjoying one implies enjoying both which demonstrates an unhealthy level of dislike for someone. It's a bit like enjoying watching your wife being raped because you dislike the person doing it so much and know it means you can see them put in prison. Bizarre.

Last decade argument is not simplistic tbh. I hate pulling the 'I played football professionally card' but I'll pull it now... I have played at a semi-professional to a professional level until 25 (when I tore my ACL) and it was clear as daylight to anyone who has played under any sort of sane tactics that Wenger was not the right manager for Arsenal or any top club. He is just not at a top level to make sane decisions and completely lacks the ability to motivate and energize a team.

I posted in another thread about a match where his midfield 4 were Diaby, Fabregas, Denilson and Song. I am sorry but that sort of shit is beyond stupid. And it was not only that game.. we have seen some extremely bizzare and awkward substitutions, tactics and signings game after game, year after year. Kim Kallstrom is one such example, WTF was that about? How about Bendtner playing on the wings or Eduardo playing on the wings? How about being susceptible to set pieces for ages and yet not doing anything to mitigate those risks? None of these have anything to do with money.

Some Arsenal fans who watched the above nonsense plus many others knew that he needs to go long back. There were many who just chose to see his achievements till 2004 and the supposed lack of money as reasons for him not succeeding. To me, it was not about money... Sure, if we had the revenues like we have today, we may have secured 4th easily in seasons we struggled to get 4th or may be secured 3rd easily, but Wenger is so stubborn and deluded that we wouldnt have challenged for the title. You (Letters) and many others are just seeing the light of the day this season because Leicester and Spurs are above us... Some of us saw it ages ago and its possibly because some of us understand the game better OR because we are the progeny of Nostradamus or both.

Your question about vitriol... its because we have been frustrated and given up on Wenger for over 6 years. You, along with many Arsenal fans have only started to realize that Wenger cannot cut it as a top manager this season. You go through 6 years of this and I am sure the vitriol will just flow out from you as well. Hopefully we dont have to endure 6 more years of the dinosaur.. if you end up being like me after 6 years, I dread to think what'll happen to me!!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My point was, what actually tangibly does it matter if you thought Wenger should go six years ago or decided it as a result of this season?.

I have wanted Wenger to go since 2011, because long term I didn't think he was the man to take us forward but at the same time it's just an opinion it doesn't make me any more or less analytical than someone who has reached that conclusion now. In that time I have accepted his stewardship because it didn't seem likely that he was going anywhere.

You see it on social media, fans who want him to stay who although in the minority think fans who want him gone are stupid and entitled and fans who are as strong in their opinion on the manager as you think anyone who hasn't wanted the manager gone for years are stupid.

Logically the longer we've gone without challenging for the league there were always going to be more people calling for him to go, so I'm not sure in your position I'd see it so much as a vindication of your views more a logically necessary outcome.

And despite it all, wanting him to fail I don't get, cutting off your nose to spite your face I call that.

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

I find FYs comments bizarre. Troubling, actually. He seems to feel about Wenger how I feel about Mourinho - and I do recognise that my almost visceral dislike of him is unhealthy.
The 'last decade' argument is lazy and simplistic, it doesn't take into account how our (literal) fortunes have changed in the last few years. And yes, the (relative) lack of money prior to that doesn't absolve Wenger of blame but it does mitigate it somewhat. The last few years the money has been there to compete with anyone so we should judge him by different standards.
The first year we won the FA Cup. No serious title challenge but it finally got that monkey off our back and gave us hope of greater things to come. The start of last season was a car crash, we were out of the title race before the first bend. Wenger should probably have been sacked for that but we did at least get it together, easily finish top 3 and retained the FA Cup. And some of the wins in big games or against teams we traditionally struggle again did give some cause for hope.
FY has accused me of getting too excited by 'a few wins', but it wasn't just a few wins. We were calendar year champions in 2015. I'm not claiming that as a trophy :rolleyes: but it does demonstrate a long run of form good enough to seriously challenge for a title. IMO there was an argument to give Wenger once last chance at the title and it's been a car crash. So yes, he should go. But the worst you can say about him is he's lost it and is no longer able to compete at the top level. But there's no doubt in my mind that he has always done what he thinks is best for the club, both short and long term.
I can understand fans' anger and frustration at seeing yet another failure. I share some of that. I will never understand the level of hatred and vitriol aimed at Wenger though. Clough (who was, if anything, more arrogant than Wenger) lost it to the point where he ended up taking Forest down and I don't think he ever got this level of abuse. At worst Wenger has presided over us slipping from the best team to the 3rd or 4th best. Is that good enough, given expectation levels (which, remember, he has set - we never had these expectations from the club before Wenger)? No, it isn't. Does it deserve this level of abuse? I don't think so.

And yes, Wenger and Arsenal's fortunes are entirely entwined. Enjoying one implies enjoying both which demonstrates an unhealthy level of dislike for someone. It's a bit like enjoying watching your wife being raped because you dislike the person doing it so much and know it means you can see them put in prison. Bizarre.

You've said this a thousand times already. You still can't understand the reactions from fans even after his press conference? What do you make of what he said?

Also, the last decade argument is far from lazy. I think this season has really exposed him and his character. If he's able to, he'll look for every excuse and shift the blame whenever possible. Any stat to make his failings look a lot better than what they are. He misleads with information. Example, when the season ticket prices went up, he said we needed to stay competitive with teams like Chelsea. Rubbish. That was an attempt to manipulate the fans. The stuff about having to sell our players is misleading as well. He presents that info as if it was a decision forced on him from above to try and stay a float. Dig deeper and it's mostly players tired of not winning and engineering a move away from the club themselves.

So many more examples I could come up with. Most have had these gripes about him for ages. He's always set the Boards interest above the fans even though he wields so much influence. There were debates on here for years about Wenger's position at the club and how powerful he really was/is. It took a long time for some to accept he had this level of influence over the Board. When we weren't buying players, the thought was they were taking money from him. He just said in that press conference that Stan has never denied him funds and he works with much freedom. As seen this year with the summer transfer fiasco, Wenger can be quite delusional and naive about what we're capable of as a team and leaves us short going into a season. It's way too simplistic to give him a blank slate and ignore all what's happened in the past.

[Maestro]

He's a cunt :d

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Seen these extra quotes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36172291

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger claims his commitment to the club helped secure the bank loans required to fund the Emirates Stadium.

Fans are set to protest this weekend after a disappointing season that has seen the Gunners' Premier League title challenge fade.

"When we built the stadium the banks demanded that I signed for five years," said the 66-year-old Frenchman.

"Do you want me to say how many clubs I turned down during that period?"


However, Wenger said his critics had gone "too far".

He added: "I did commit and I stayed, and under very difficult circumstances.

"So for me to come back and, on top of that, (critics) reproach me for not having won the championship during that period, it is a bit overboard."

:haha:

Arsene Wonga indeed. The bankers demanded he stayed for five years? :sarcy:

He's contradicting himself all the time - just fecking stop you lunatic!

[Letters]

Last decade argument is not simplistic tbh. I hate pulling the 'I played football professionally card' but I'll pull it now... I have played at a semi-professional to a professional level until 25 (when I tore my ACL) and it was clear as daylight to anyone who has played under any sort of sane tactics that Wenger was not the right manager for Arsenal or any top club. He is just not at a top level to make sane decisions and completely lacks the ability to motivate and energize a team.

I posted in another thread about a match where his midfield 4 were Diaby, Fabregas, Denilson and Song. I am sorry but that sort of shit is beyond stupid. And it was not only that game.. we have seen some extremely bizzare and awkward substitutions, tactics and signings game after game, year after year. Kim Kallstrom is one such example, WTF was that about? How about Bendtner playing on the wings or Eduardo playing on the wings? How about being susceptible to set pieces for ages and yet not doing anything to mitigate those risks? None of these have anything to do with money.

Some Arsenal fans who watched the above nonsense plus many others knew that he needs to go long back. There were many who just chose to see his achievements till 2004 and the supposed lack of money as reasons for him not succeeding. To me, it was not about money... Sure, if we had the revenues like we have today, we may have secured 4th easily in seasons we struggled to get 4th or may be secured 3rd easily, but Wenger is so stubborn and deluded that we wouldnt have challenged for the title. You (Letters) and many others are just seeing the light of the day this season because Leicester and Spurs are above us... Some of us saw it ages ago and its possibly because some of us understand the game better OR because we are the progeny of Nostradamus or both.

Your question about vitriol... its because we have been frustrated and given up on Wenger for over 6 years. You, along with many Arsenal fans have only started to realize that Wenger cannot cut it as a top manager this season. You go through 6 years of this and I am sure the vitriol will just flow out from you as well. Hopefully we dont have to endure 6 more years of the dinosaur.. if you end up being like me after 6 years, I dread to think what'll happen to me!!

The 'I played football professionally card' isn't a card at all, tbh. All of the pundits we see on TV have played at the very top level - certainly at a much higher level than you - and a lot of them spout utter bullshit most of the time. Playing at a certain level does not make your opinions are any more valid than mine or anyone else's.

I agree with some of the things you say about Wenger but he was never a great tactician or motivator. He hasn't suddenly developed those flaws. They were simply masked previously by his strengths - those strengths are now no longer enough now everyone else has caught up and overtaken us when it comes to training methods and scouting networks. Many of the people now patting themselves on the back about being right all along about Wenger also confidently predicted we'd never win any trophy under him again (after the Birmingham debacle I thought that, actually). Now of course they're just changing it to 'major' trophy and claiming the FA Cup isn't one which is a pointless debate as it's entirely subjective and there is no objective measure of 'major'. My 2 cents is that of course it's the 3rd priority, trophy wise (shall I write the '4th place trophy' WUM riposte for you now to save you the effort?), as we go into a season, but you wouldn't be having an open top bus parade for the league Cup and you wouldn't get major TV channels giving so much coverage to any other domestic cup final. It isn't what it was, but it still has a certain prestige. But anyway, as I said it gave some cause for hope - as did some of the victories in the last couple of seasons.

The lack of money was a factor in us not succeeding. Since we last won the league Liverpool have finished above us a few times - and they're not short of a penny or two - but most seasons all the clubs who finished above us were the ones able to out-spend us. Would we have won some league titles otherwise? We'll never know, but we'd have had a much better chance had City and Chelsea not bought up 6 titles between them in that period.

My opinion about persisting with Wenger has not changed because of who are above us. I said early season that I'd support him while we were challenging for the title. I never said anything about that being conditional on us finishing above certain teams. I've snapped with Wenger because this was the year we should have pushed on and at least challenged properly for the title. Well OK, actually last year was that year but the FA Cup mitigated our failure to do so somewhat and IMO made a case for giving him one more shot. Anyway, the Leicester result put us back in the race - and that was mid-Feb, let's not pretend it's been a car crash all season. It was the 8 games after that which broke me, it saw us tumble out of the CL (which, given who we were playing, I could live with had we fared better in other games in that run), the FA Cup (very limp display against a not very good side) and the title race. That's why I think he should go. We have the resources to compete and the players to compete and we're not. I don't care who the teams above us are (well, I do care Spurs are above us but it's not a factor in my opinion about Wenger).

The last couple of years have been pretty decent. FA Cup and 4th then FA Cup and 3rd. If you think that's 2 bad seasons then, again, I urge you to think about where that level of expectation has come from. It is entirely from Wenger's time with us. But we moved to the stadium to compete with the very best. I can accept some period of belt tightening and it came right at the time when the billionaires were having the biggest impact. But now we have the resources to compete properly, we're not and that's why he should go.

But we're still one of the best teams in the country, we've got enough money to sign the players we need to push us on and the fanbase and stadium to sustain it. A lot of that is down to Wenger so as frustrated as you are with him I'll never understand the level of hatred you have for him, much less actual enjoyment at his failure. That's just bizarre. If he'd sold all our best players, pocketed the cash, got us relegated and pissed off to a private island leaving behind a complete train wreck then I guess he would deserve this level of abuse but that's hardly the case. As I said at worst he's lost it and is no longer able to compete at the very top level. I think he'll leave us in pretty good shape for whoever takes over though. I do hope he goes soon because every year he's here will further tarnish his legacy (unless he does somehow get it together and win us a title although that seems increasingly unlikely). He needs to go but he's earned his bust at the Emirates, he's one of the most important figures in our modern history, I'd argue the most important, and I think in the long term that will be appreciated.

[Gooner23]

Arsene Wonga indeed. The bankers demanded he stayed for five years? :sarcy:

He's contradicting himself all the time - just fecking stop you lunatic!

Plus I think he did have the majority fan base support back through that period. The criticism is about what's happening now and in the last few years. He's totally missing the point.

[Marc Overmars]

I wish someone at the press conference had the balls to call him out, he needs to hear some home truths. He just doesn't get it and never will.

Bumbling idiot indeed. Actually no, bumbling doesn't really indicate how serious this is now, fucking idiot is about right.

[Letters]

How serious this is? Really?!

[Niall_Quinn]

How serious this is? Really?!

Yes. Millions of pounds taken under false pretences. Very serious indeed, although I doubt anyone will ever be prosecuted.

[Munchies]

£150 on printer ink


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChRqGdnWIAAmyCR.jpg
https://twitter.com/Memz_Dogi/with_replies

Respect to the Gooners taking a stand

I'd be there if I wasn't working today

---

@Memz_Dogi
So now I'm getting threats that if I show my face today at the stadium I'll be "chinned"

:lol:

Fuck the Wenger defenders!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It might be better if it actually said what's wanted. 'Time for change' is quite vague; is it Wenger out, board out, Kroenke out, less Gunnersaurus, or more 'Wonder of You' perhaps?

[Munchies]

It might be better if it actually said what's wanted. 'Time for change' is quite vague; is it Wenger out, board out, Kroenke out, less Gunnersaurus, or more 'Wonder of You' perhaps?

I guess that's also a good thing, we just want change to happen!

We want the club to change as it is existing right now.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChR4oEIWMAEwhGE.jpg


It's getting coverage!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm not sure that is how it will be portrayed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It might be better if it actually said what's wanted. 'Time for change' is quite vague; is it Wenger out, board out, Kroenke out, less Gunnersaurus, or more 'Wonder of You' perhaps?

I think that it's intentionally vague because fans still can't agree on what is the problem and what is the solution

Whilst the majority do want Wenger gone, for some it's still a step too far etc.

Therefore I think it was agreed that a sweeping statement that everyone could get behind was needed. The only people opposed are people who believe like AW that the fans are wholly responsible. Positively Arsenal a tweeter I try and debate with until he makes it clear that anyone who thinks Wenger is not brilliant is scum actually posted that fans weren't fit to wipe Wengers arse....I mean where do you come up with a mindset like that.

[Letters]

Interestingly I was talking to a Gooner colleague last week and he's still in the #WengerIn camp. They're an endangered species.
His take is that with the same board it won't change much, I don't agree. With our squad we should be doing better, I think another manager - bot not just ANY other manager - would get better out of them.

[Kano]

Last decade argument is not simplistic tbh. I hate pulling the 'I played football professionally card' but I'll pull it now... I have played at a semi-professional to a professional level until 25 (when I tore my ACL) and it was clear as daylight to anyone who has played under any sort of sane tactics that Wenger was not the right manager for Arsenal or any top club. He is just not at a top level to make sane decisions and completely lacks the ability to motivate and energize a team.

I posted in another thread about a match where his midfield 4 were Diaby, Fabregas, Denilson and Song. I am sorry but that sort of shit is beyond stupid. And it was not only that game.. we have seen some extremely bizzare and awkward substitutions, tactics and signings game after game, year after year. Kim Kallstrom is one such example, WTF was that about? How about Bendtner playing on the wings or Eduardo playing on the wings? How about being susceptible to set pieces for ages and yet not doing anything to mitigate those risks? None of these have anything to do with money.

Some Arsenal fans who watched the above nonsense plus many others knew that he needs to go long back. There were many who just chose to see his achievements till 2004 and the supposed lack of money as reasons for him not succeeding. To me, it was not about money... Sure, if we had the revenues like we have today, we may have secured 4th easily in seasons we struggled to get 4th or may be secured 3rd easily, but Wenger is so stubborn and deluded that we wouldnt have challenged for the title. You (Letters) and many others are just seeing the light of the day this season because Leicester and Spurs are above us... Some of us saw it ages ago and its possibly because some of us understand the game better OR because we are the progeny of Nostradamus or both.

Your question about vitriol... its because we have been frustrated and given up on Wenger for over 6 years. You, along with many Arsenal fans have only started to realize that Wenger cannot cut it as a top manager this season. You go through 6 years of this and I am sure the vitriol will just flow out from you as well. Hopefully we dont have to endure 6 more years of the dinosaur.. if you end up being like me after 6 years, I dread to think what'll happen to me!!

Really it's down to lack of control of your own emotions. The laziest thing in the world we all do at times is to pin the reason for our ongoing anger onto the cause of it. Sure, we can react to things but when we let it fester, then it it comes down to ourselves to put a lid on it, mostly for the sake of our own sanity. Sitting there getting pissed off, then angry, then mad while sitting, watching and hoping the cause (not the reason, that's a different thing) of your ire tears itself apart says more about you than anything else. Wenger isn't the reason you've been angry for six years, that's because you haven't found a way to manage it. If something is that toxic for you, you get the hell away from it or reassess how you deal with it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think the general consensus is that the man who comes after Wenger won't be allowed a free reign and will be accountable to Ivan Gazidis in the way Wenger is not.

That's the issue with Wenger, he says all the time he questions himself but he won't allow anyone else to. I think if he did he'd have been much better off in the last few years and wouldn't have caused this split between himself and the fan base.
As it is he's a demagogue wading through water up to his knees.

It's so unlikely now that this will end amicably and he's got no one to blame but himself, should have been different.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Really it's down to lack of control of your own emotions. The laziest thing in the world we all do at times is to pin the reason for our ongoing anger onto the cause of it. Sure, we can react to things but when we let it fester, then it it comes down to ourselves to put a lid on it, mostly for the sake of our own sanity. Sitting there getting pissed off, then angry, then mad while sitting, watching and hoping the cause (not the reason, that's a different thing) of your ire tears itself apart says more about you than anything else. Wenger isn't the reason you've been angry for six years, that's because you haven't found a way to manage it. If something is that toxic for you, you get the hell away from it or reassess how you deal with it.

Pretty much. I'm angry with Wengers comments yesterday, anger out of disappointment. Anger that he doesn't care that he is destroying his own legacy, that's not something I can get satisfaction out of.
I have largely wanted him to go for five years, but there's no question I wanted him to go with our praise ringing in his ears.

[selassie]

I think the general consensus is that the man who comes after Wenger won't be allowed a free reign and will be accountable to Ivan Gazidis in the way Wenger is not.

That's the issue with Wenger, he says all the time he questions himself but he won't allow anyone else to. I think if he did he'd have been much better off in the last few years and wouldn't have caused this split between himself and the fan base.
As it is he's a demagogue wading through water up to his knees.

It's so unlikely now that this will end amicably and he's got no one to blame but himself, should have been different.

:gp:

I think the damage is irrepairable now because Wenger has got personal, it's probably a defence in his mind to what he perceives as unjust criticism.

In some ways Wenger has dug himself deep into a whole and truly exposed himself because he's actually been quite open about what he can and can't do, in the presser he pretty much said that he's accountable to nobody and if he requires funds then he can get them. Of course his unwillingness to strengthen the team isn't the only issue fans have with him, the are a whole host of other issues but the fact that he has come out and said that confirms what many thought.

The press conference was quite interesting because initially he said he understands the frustration but then halfway through and unprovoked might i add he went into a passioned attack (you cant call it a defence) of the fans and former players who had been making comments/protests in the media/on social media/at the stadium.

It's got really ugly now IMO.

[Dicks and chicks]

Interestingly I was talking to a Gooner colleague last week and he's still in the #WengerIn camp. They're an endangered species.
His take is that with the same board it won't change much, I don't agree. With our squad we should be doing better, I think another manager - bot not just ANY other manager - would get better out of them.

Owen in Coyle is not just any manager, he's owen coyle.

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

I think the damage is irrepairable now because Wenger has got personal, it's probably a defence in his mind to what he perceives as unjust criticism.

In some ways Wenger has dug himself deep into a whole and truly exposed himself because he's actually been quite open about what he can and can't do, in the presser he pretty much said that he's accountable to nobody and if he requires funds then he can get them. Of course his unwillingness to strengthen the team isn't the only issue fans have with him, the are a whole host of other issues but the fact that he has come out and said that confirms what many thought.

The press conference was quite interesting because initially he said he understands the frustration but then halfway through and unprovoked might i add he went into a passioned attack (you cant call it a defence) of the fans and former players who had been making comments/protests in the media/on social media/at the stadium.

It's got really ugly now IMO.

Stupidity and arrogance from Wenger.

[Kano]

Pretty much. I'm angry with Wengers comments yesterday, anger out of disappointment. Anger that he doesn't care that he is destroying his own legacy, that's not something I can get satisfaction out of.
I have largely wanted him to go for five years, but there's no question I wanted him to go with our praise ringing in his ears.
I was pissed for a minute but it's more sadness than anything else, watching a club legend cling on like this and go to battle with the fans. There was an excellent point made on the Arsecast yesterday by Tim Stillman, in terms of the type of fan that goes to the game. His reckoning is that maybe up to 40% of the fans won't even realise there is a protest happening this weekend because they are not wrapped up in the 24/7 intensity of Internet and media coverage. They go to a game as an escape, maybe have a couple of drinks after and then go home to families and get on with life. That's where I try to keep football. I read a lot about it and come on here most days but won't allow it to control my feelings, I watch our games and hope we do well but it won't dement me if not. Age probably has something to do with that too I guess. It's still an escape for me and while I agree with nearly all the criticism of Wenger, it is just very sad to see it panning out this way.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yes I listened to the Arsecast yesterday and heard that, I think Tim Stillman is probably right as well. I think a lot of supporters don't want to get mixed up in what they feel is the politics of the club. Win, Lose or Draw they come away from the game have a few drinks and then go home and probably don't think about Arsenal again until the next match comes around.
I have to say I actually envy that level of detachment.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChSojX-W4AE2uqc.jpg:large

:lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This is actually where I can see it more realistically ending for Wenger, a rift developing him and his players. He criticised Ozil for saying that the players themselves had mucked it up.
And actually to be fair on the players they seem more willing to take responsibility for their failings than AW does.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

On that interview Cazorla doesn't really say much though, he says we need to improve but doesn't say where and says we have a good mentality.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChTR1ZfWIAAC4hZ.jpg

[Kano]

On that interview Cazorla doesn't really say much though, he says we need to improve but doesn't say where and says we have a good mentality.

Wenger said something about this a few years back which was quite on the nose. Players might come out and say we need to make changes/signings but they'll never say where out of fear of their own position being improved upon by any new faces coming in.