Match Reaction vs Norwich (home).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Good viewing. :lol:

Small team at home Champs! :trophy:

[Kano]

Awlsome.

Full time champions :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Top 4 all but secured for another year.

Mission accomplished.

A season to remember. One Arsene Wenger. :scarf:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Sarah-Jane Mee says Norwich are 92 points from safety. I don't fancy their chances of surviving.

[hobson's choice]

Whatever

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChT0EStWMAAMnqA.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChTrDZMWMAI-AjF.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChThsjFW4AApmYW.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChThcBTW4AAvIc-.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChTjtlXXEAAERKj.jpg

...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChThrxSWUAERDEo.jpg

:haha:

[Munchies]

Wenger: "It was a strange atmosphere. Some were protesting, yes, but the vast majority were supporting the team."

[Munchies]

Even the One Direction lad says Wenger needs to go!

https://twitter.com/NiallOfficial?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Poor ole wenger , he's done a great job over the years but the stubbornness needs to let up and he just needs to go .They're one of the richest clubs in the world and they need to start using that money . It must be very frustrating Being an arsenal fan . .

[fakeyank]

What an exciting win :tumbleweed:

[alexander]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChT0EStWMAAMnqA.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChTrDZMWMAI-AjF.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChThsjFW4AApmYW.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChThcBTW4AAvIc-.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChTjtlXXEAAERKj.jpg

...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChThrxSWUAERDEo.jpg

:haha:

I know we want him out, I do as much as most, but its a little sad to see this in a way. To see him stand there with all that behind him isnt nice. I know us fans need to voice our frustrations somehow, but this is hard. The thing is, it is down to us because our piss poor board are not man enough. It shouldnt have come to this.
Clearly he loves arsenal massively, and of course he wants to succeed (despite what some say) he is clearly stubborn, and a decent board would force him to get help in the form of coaches etc etc that he needs. I saw an interview on twitter with him, and he just said he is sorry the fans are disappointed with the team and they will try to turn it around.
It just seems sad that it it has come to this, us fans trying to force him out, shouldnt be our job.

It sits uncomfortably with me tbh.

[Gubby Allen]

Top 4 all but secured for another year.

Mission accomplished.

A season to remember. One Arsene Wenger. :scarf:

Yep, Whoopee!

Schalke, Olympiakos and Sparta Prague here we come.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We'll get Bayern again probably.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzL_rJPjG_U

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCD6ct_nw

oh dear. fucking melt

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJYuY3v2_2g

:bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Currently on course for our lowest scoring league season since 06/07 when we scored 63 goals. We've scored 59 at the moment which is level with Wenger's lowest scoring season of 98/99.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I know we want him out, I do as much as most, but its a little sad to see this in a way. To see him stand there with all that behind him isnt nice. I know us fans need to voice our frustrations somehow, but this is hard. The thing is, it is down to us because our piss poor board are not man enough. It shouldnt have come to this.
Clearly he loves arsenal massively, and of course he wants to succeed (despite what some say) he is clearly stubborn, and a decent board would force him to get help in the form of coaches etc etc that he needs. I saw an interview on twitter with him, and he just said he is sorry the fans are disappointed with the team and they will try to turn it around.
It just seems sad that it it has come to this, us fans trying to force him out, shouldnt be our job.

It sits uncomfortably with me tbh.

Yes it's not great to see and it also saddens me but it's absolutely fucking necessary. Wenger and the board live in their bubbles of delusions where they think everything is fine and dandy as long as we make top four and make a profit every year ........... the message has to be sent unequivocally that the fans (well at least a large part) aren't happy with this shit.

Not that this will force the issue, more likely he'll just ignore it as usual but we have to at least try instead of just giving up and letting them do whatever they want impunity.


Currently on course for our lowest scoring league season since 06/07 when we scored 63 goals. We've scored 59 at the moment which is level with Wenger's lowest scoring season of 98/99.

And we probably still won't sign a striker this summer and stick with donkey Giroud up front next season. :coffee:

[Munchies]

And we probably still won't sign a striker this summer and stick with donkey Giroud up front next season. :coffee:

Even if we do sign a striker, Wenger will stick to stubborn formations which will have no effect, and will never learn what works and what not to work against teams that sit back against us.

Anyways, I've had enough with the team in general.

There are still thousands of deluded sheep who believe in him, the board won't do what's best for the club and we're treated as mugs.

I'm finding myself more and more often not caring about the team, and I don't really mind now either.

[LDG]

Dissapointed love.

No agression here.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Dissapointed love.

No agression here.

Yeah blud.

[alexander]

Looks like quite a few empty seats on MOTD

[Marc Overmars]

Looks like quite a few empty seats on MOTD

More meaningful than holding up the shitty cards.

[alexander]

More meaningful than holding up the shitty cards.

of which there was a poor showing too.

[Munchies]

Ok, Alexis is gone

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/10265352/alexis-sanchez-frustrated-by-substitution-shows-disharmony-at-arsenal-says-jamie-redknapp

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He usually reacts like that in fairness.

[Chippy]

Looks like quite a few empty seats on MOTD

I took my wife to her first match yesterday, she asked if it always this quiet! Lol! Piss poor performance, piss poor atmosphere. Wenger out.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I took my wife to her first match yesterday, she asked if it always this quiet! Lol! Piss poor performance, piss poor atmosphere. Wenger out.

Piss poor wife

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I took my wife to her first match yesterday, she asked if it always this quiet! Lol! Piss poor performance, piss poor atmosphere. Wenger out.

Why, didn't you speak to her?

[AFC Leveller]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJYuY3v2_2g

:bow:

Fam, what do you mean blud? You fink man is not blud fam?

[Kano]

manamans a wagamama man

[alexander]

Fam, what do you mean blud? You fink man is not blud fam?

I honestly dont know what `blud` and `fam` mean :shrug:

is it like saying `mate`?

Can someone count how many times he says both in those 7 mins :blah:

[Globalgunner]

I honestly dont know what `blud` and `fam` mean :shrug:

is it like saying `mate`?

Can someone count how many times he says both in those 7 mins :blah:

Leave the man be. He is my favourite interview on Arsenal TV. I could listen to him for hours blud.

[AFC Leveller]

I honestly dont know what `blud` and `fam` mean :shrug:

is it like saying `mate`?

Can someone count how many times he says both in those 7 mins :blah:

Yeah fam

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0bsdKBNrjU

Man City game.... nothing will happen as a result of it but :popcorn:

[Chippy]

Piss poor wife

You cheeky cuuuuuunnnnntttt.

[Maestro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0bsdKBNrjU

Man City game.... nothing will happen as a result of it but :popcorn:

This DT guy comes across as a right prick, so full of himself. Speaks as if he's some sort of annointed voice of arsenal fans.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Insufferable bore, actually found myself falling asleep half way through this

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You cheeky cuuuuuunnnnntttt.

I don't see you disagreeing

[Marc Overmars]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-fans-filmed-singing-vile-7878702

Christ we have some embarrassing twats as fans.

Is that DT holding up the banner as well? Showed himself up good and proper.

[Niall_Quinn]

This DT guy comes across as a right prick, so full of himself. Speaks as if he's some sort of annointed voice of arsenal fans.

A little bit of publicity can do a whole lot of damage to your head.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-fans-filmed-singing-vile-7878702

Christ we have some embarrassing twats as fans.

Is that DT holding up the banner as well? Showed himself up good and proper.

It's a stitch up. You can actually see people looking over in surprise at the one person who's changed that word. "Leave" is what the rest of them were singing.

[Kano]

This DT guy comes across as a right prick, so full of himself. Speaks as if he's some sort of annointed voice of arsenal fans.

The guy is a twat, enjoying his little 15 minutes.

[Özim]

This guy, how deluded, he's like a mini Wenger?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlDvP2Esq2A

Also heard that apparently Arsenal fans were insulting other Arsenal fans with their banners, protest bits of paper how ridiculous, people are allowed to make their views known.

According to what you hear it seems that a lot of Arsenal fans are just frightened of change and still back the manager, what these people don't realise is he'll leave at some point and the same thing will happen. Moh was right you have to respect fans of other clubs for their solidarity, our fans prefer to put up and shut up.

How you can back the manager after all this I don't know to be honest, but by the sounds of some of them he can basically do anything he likes with no accountability at all because once upon a time he had a successful spell...past glories and all that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Arsenal fans aren't protesters, on the whole we are far too middle class in our attitudes especially the Emirates Stadium crowd. A year ago no such protest would have ever happened full stop and the reason for this is, many fans who go to the Emirates, don't spend their time afterwards on social media or fan forums...they go watch the game, go home and then divorce themselves from the club until the next game.
That's not criticising fans who do use social media or are a bit more militant in their attitude but they are more likely to be part of the smaller travelling contingent.

[Power n Glory]

Clubs tearing itself apart. The fight between fans will now be over how much respect is shown to Wenger. The debate over should he stay or go or if he's good enough to win will go out the window.

Bah...the fuck the club! It's not what it once was and I can't stand what it's become. We've got vampires at Board level but I really can't stand Wenger for taking their side over the fans and allowing them to suck the life out of it. I expect the corporate leeches to be more concerned about the $£€ but I don't expect that from a manager that preaches purity in football. The fans wouldn't have fell for all the horseshit if we didn't believe Arsene Wenger was a man of integrity. He's full of shit. Fuck him for allowing this to happen on his watch.

[Özim]

Arsenal fans aren't protesters, on the whole we are far too middle class in our attitudes especially the Emirates Stadium crowd. A year ago no such protest would have ever happened full stop and the reason for this is, many fans who go to the Emirates, don't spend their time afterwards on social media or fan forums...they go watch the game, go home and then divorce themselves from the club until the next game.
That's not criticising fans who do use social media or are a bit more militant in their attitude but they are more likely to be part of the smaller travelling contingent.

Very true and that's another reason nothing will ever change, the owners can and will keep doing as they please, the manager will say and do what he likes (and still get support, for example from that guy above who says he is right to blame the fans - honestly that's ridiculous, who is it who signs the players, selects the tactics, makes the substitutions, relies on injured players etc etc....according to this guy and Wenger it's the fans, it's that kind of attitude which not only makes these people come across as ridiculous but also encourages this behaviour by the management).

You won't find any other club in the football world where a manager can be so arrogant as to blame the fans for things going wrong without repercussions and still get support for it, it's almost like cult where these people have been brainwashed into believing Wenger is the only thing that makes Arsenal survive as a football club and that without him we'd end up in non league, some of it is pretty embarassing.

[Özim]

Clubs tearing itself apart. The fight between fans will now be over how much respect is shown to Wenger. The debate over should he stay or go or if he's good enough to win will go out the window.

Bah...the fuck the club! It's not what it once was and I can't stand what it's become. We've got vampires at Board level but I really can't stand Wenger for taking their side over the fans and allowing them to suck the life out of it. I expect the corporate leeches to be more concerned about the $£€ but I don't expect that from a manager that preaches purity in football. The fans wouldn't have fell for all the horseshit if we didn't believe Arsene Wenger was a man of integrity. He's full of shit. Fuck him for allowing this to happen on his watch.

Whilst Wenger doesn't throw out profanities, there's no integrity in the way he portrays himself, blaming everyone and accepting no responsibilty for him or his players.

I've said it before and will say it again, the man claims to care about the club and yet has the audacity to blame the people who are the club, the fans. Without the fans this club would be nothing and would be nowhere and he'd be back in Japan unknown to most earning his living in some 2nd rate league.

People talk about what Wenger has done for the club, but don't forget what the club has done for Wenger, they gave him his chance in the big time, rewarded him with loyalty, a huge salary and the freedom to do as he wishes, there's no other manager in football who has ever been that lucky and you'll never find another manager of a top club who would keep their jobs despite failure to deliver for over a decade.

[Niall_Quinn]

This guy, how deluded, he's like a mini Wenger?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlDvP2Esq2A

Also heard that apparently Arsenal fans were insulting other Arsenal fans with their banners, protest bits of paper how ridiculous, people are allowed to make their views known.

According to what you hear it seems that a lot of Arsenal fans are just frightened of change and still back the manager, what these people don't realise is he'll leave at some point and the same thing will happen. Moh was right you have to respect fans of other clubs for their solidarity, our fans prefer to put up and shut up.

How you can back the manager after all this I don't know to be honest, but by the sounds of some of them he can basically do anything he likes with no accountability at all because once upon a time he had a successful spell...past glories and all that.

That bloke is mentally ill. He'd best get off AFTV because he's going to get filled in if he keeps gloating on like that. He's the sort of guy who enjoys being a footstool for those he considers his betters.

[Niall_Quinn]

Clubs tearing itself apart. The fight between fans will now be over how much respect is shown to Wenger. The debate over should he stay or go or if he's good enough to win will go out the window.

Bah...the fuck the club! It's not what it once was and I can't stand what it's become. We've got vampires at Board level but I really can't stand Wenger for taking their side over the fans and allowing them to suck the life out of it. I expect the corporate leeches to be more concerned about the $£€ but I don't expect that from a manager that preaches purity in football. The fans wouldn't have fell for all the horseshit if we didn't believe Arsene Wenger was a man of integrity. He's full of shit. Fuck him for allowing this to happen on his watch.


Divide and rule. That's what Wenger is doing, with the full backing of the board no doubt. Wenger is rapidly becoming the enemy. They must have calculated they could piss on the fans in this overt manner yet the majority would still support them. It's a British thing. Queue in an orderly and respectful manner to be pissed on. Centuries of training. Ironic because the French would have hoisted Wenger high by now.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Very true and that's another reason nothing will ever change, the owners can and will keep doing as they please, the manager will say and do what he likes (and still get support, for example from that guy above who says he is right to blame the fans - honestly that's ridiculous, who is it who signs the players, selects the tactics, makes the substitutions, relies on injured players etc etc....according to this guy and Wenger it's the fans, it's that kind of attitude which not only makes these people come across as ridiculous but also encourages this behaviour by the management).

You won't find any other club in the football world where a manager can be so arrogant as to blame the fans for things going wrong without repercussions and still get support for it, it's almost like cult where these people have been brainwashed into believing Wenger is the only thing that makes Arsenal survive as a football club and that without him we'd end up in non league, some of it is pretty embarassing.

I don't think it's brainwashing i think it's just detachment, i don't think that many people are that resistant to change....they just don't want to protest for it. Even some of the hardened Wenger supporters have ceded that fans would have reason to be unhappy if he was given a contract extension without significant improvement next season.
The form of protest taken will be that people will stop going to games next season, i have cancelled my red membership direct debit, and the situation where you are seeing about 10,000 empty seats will continue.
Social Media tends to promote a false narrative, a) that the majority of fans are up in arms about the state of the club where as many are indifferent and b) that there is a high incident rate of a civil war between pro wenger and anti wenger supporters....apart from the odd skirmish between idiots who want any excuse to act violently it's not something that's prevalent.
I think the best thing to compare the home fans to is Cinema goers, they pay for the ticket show up and watch the performance.....they might think it good, they might think it bad....they shrug and go home.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think it's brainwashing i think it's just detachment, i don't think that many people are that resistant to change....they just don't want to protest for it. Even some of the hardened Wenger supporters have ceded that fans would have reason to be unhappy if he was given a contract extension without significant improvement next season.
The form of protest taken will be that people will stop going to games next season, i have cancelled my red membership direct debit, and the situation where you are seeing about 10,000 empty seats will continue.
Social Media tends to promote a false narrative, a) that the majority of fans are up in arms about the state of the club where as many are indifferent and b) that there is a high incident rate of a civil war between pro wenger and anti wenger supporters....apart from the odd skirmish between idiots who want any excuse to act violently it's not something that's prevalent.
I think the best thing to compare the home fans to is Cinema goers, they pay for the ticket show up and watch the performance.....they might think it good, they might think it bad....they shrug and go home.

There for the popcorn. The modern fan. Another indictment of the money game. How do you destroy a passionate, tribal game like football yet double the revenue? Price the fans out and invite these semi-people in. You do it exactly as they have done it. You can't fault their methods. You can't deny their success.

[Marc Overmars]

I think the best thing to compare the home fans to is Cinema goers, they pay for the ticket show up and watch the performance.....they might think it good, they might think it bad....they shrug and go home.

Yep. Unfortunately that is the problem with the Emirates crowd, their acceptance is a big part of why we have stagnated for so long. There has been a clear drop in standards over the past 10 years but it seems like whatever you serve them they'll keep coming back for more. Interesting to see if Liverpool and Spurs experience the same problems when their stadiums are sorted, inevitably they're going to attract more of a corporate crowd but I think their mindsets are completely different to ours, particularly Liverpool.

[Kano]

Arsenal fans aren't protesters, on the whole we are far too middle class in our attitudes especially the Emirates Stadium crowd. A year ago no such protest would have ever happened full stop and the reason for this is, many fans who go to the Emirates, don't spend their time afterwards on social media or fan forums...they go watch the game, go home and then divorce themselves from the club until the next game.
That's not criticising fans who do use social media or are a bit more militant in their attitude but they are more likely to be part of the smaller travelling contingent.

I don’t think it’s a class thing, there just isn’t enough outrage to get people motivated to do something about it. Any protest needs a real anger at its base – Aston Villa fans are prime example in terms of football and when you look at any other protest, be it political or social, people are galvanised to the street by a certain level of fury aimed at their target. It’s far easier to get angry online when the consequences are next to nothing.

What we have at the stadium are fans who disconnect from the nonsense we all talk about online, treating the game as an escape from the normal routines of life. We can look at the Man Utd fans as another example. They haven’t have several years of the same experience but have suffered a heavy drop in quality and ability to achieve their ambitions but they are still behind the team. But look online and you’d see a completely different perspective in some parts.

[Power n Glory]

I don’t think it’s a class thing, there just isn’t enough outrage to get people motivated to do something about it. Any protest needs a real anger at its base – Aston Villa fans are prime example in terms of football and when you look at any other protest, be it political or social, people are galvanised to the street by a certain level of fury aimed at their target. It’s far easier to get angry online when the consequences are next to nothing.

What we have at the stadium are fans who disconnect from the nonsense we all talk about online, treating the game as an escape from the normal routines of life. We can look at the Man Utd fans as another example. They haven’t have several years of the same experience but have suffered a heavy drop in quality and ability to achieve their ambitions but they are still behind the team. But look online and you’d see a completely different perspective in some parts.

I really wish you'd stop making that assumption.

[Munchies]

Yep. Unfortunately that is the problem with the Emirates crowd, their acceptance is a big part of why we have stagnated for so long. There has been a clear drop in standards over the past 10 years but it seems like whatever you serve them they'll keep coming back for more. Interesting to see if Liverpool and Spurs experience the same problems when their stadiums are sorted, inevitably they're going to attract more of a corporate crowd but I think their mindsets are completely different to ours, particularly Liverpool.

If you look at the proposed designs for Spurs' new stadium, you can see it's built with fan atmosphere in mind. It has a 'Kop' feel to it.

A far cry from our one which is solely for corporate viewing imo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJjn4TEXAAAKs9n.jpg

[Power n Glory]

Divide and rule. That's what Wenger is doing, with the full backing of the board no doubt. Wenger is rapidly becoming the enemy. They must have calculated they could piss on the fans in this overt manner yet the majority would still support them. It's a British thing. Queue in an orderly and respectful manner to be pissed on. Centuries of training. Ironic because the French would have hoisted Wenger high by now.

You think he could be that devious? I've seen how the club have used the media to circulate a half truth in the past so it's possible. But the consequences of this will be felt for years if they keep this up.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think it is an assumption, these are people for who Arsenal is a ritual like going down the pub on a friday night or taking the kids to the park on a sunday. It doesn't say any more or less about them, and i'm not saying it's a majority but there is a sizeable proportion of the crowd who come win, lose or draw, go home and don't think about Arsenal again until the next game.

Does it mean they don't have opinions on the direction the club is going?.....it just means that outside of a coffee break in the office they probably don't spend a great time on social media/forums talking about it

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If you look at the proposed designs for Spurs' new stadium, you can see it's built with fan atmosphere in mind. It has a 'Kop' feel to it.

A far cry from our one which is solely for corporate viewing imo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJjn4TEXAAAKs9n.jpg


Who designed that image?.....clearly not a spurs fan

[Munchies]

Who designed that image?.....clearly not a spurs fan

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new-scheme/gallery/

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don’t think it’s a class thing, there just isn’t enough outrage to get people motivated to do something about it. Any protest needs a real anger at its base – Aston Villa fans are prime example in terms of football and when you look at any other protest, be it political or social, people are galvanised to the street by a certain level of fury aimed at their target. It’s far easier to get angry online when the consequences are next to nothing.

What we have at the stadium are fans who disconnect from the nonsense we all talk about online, treating the game as an escape from the normal routines of life. We can look at the Man Utd fans as another example. They haven’t have several years of the same experience but have suffered a heavy drop in quality and ability to achieve their ambitions but they are still behind the team. But look online and you’d see a completely different perspective in some parts.

Well when i say class i mean it in terms of mentality rather than means

It's like a mindset which doesn't like getting involved in protests, i am the same....i can think of nothing more trite than going on street demos waving placards no matter what the cause.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new-scheme/gallery/

What?....why on earth has someone drawn them 5-0 down to Liverpool.

[Niall_Quinn]

I really wish you'd stop making that assumption.

Especially when the cycle at Arsenal precisely matches the normal routine for most people. A never changing humdrum devoid of the slightest hint of escapism. Over at Leicester we see what football is supposed to be about. Not title win but the ride, the ups, the downs, the expectations, the hopes, the fears, biting nails, sometimes the disbelief. What do we have here? Fuck all. Supporting Arsenal is like paying to work for somebody. Worse than the daily grind. And why?

Because some greedy bastard has bought the place and is being serviced by a man who claims to love football but really loves power and the structures of power. How could he love football and tolerate that soul sapping nothingness served up on the pitch every week?

[Kano]

Well when i say class i mean it in terms of mentality rather than means

It's like a mindset which doesn't like getting involved in protests, i am the same....i can think of nothing more trite than going on street demos waving placards no matter what the cause.
I think many fans want a change but are not outraged enough to want to do something about it. The top 4/Chumps League has probably contributed to that, set in a nice stadium, watching a team full of first team internationals. A hugely significant drop in performance – a season or two at a Liverpool or Chelsea level further down would probably raise the temperature quite a bit. Our situation is very unique and a reason why other fans look at us and think we are spoilt because from the outside we probably look like lunatics wanting to ditch a manager who get us top 3 or 4, cup finals, CL every season and big time players. As fans we are stuck in this strange limbo and that’s why a lot of paying fans aren’t sure how to respond to the idea of a protest.

[Kano]

What?....why on earth has someone drawn them 5-0 down to Liverpool.
Probably just remembering the good old days before they bagan bottling it big time in the last few games.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25287554

[Niall_Quinn]

Well when i say class i mean it in terms of mentality rather than means

It's like a mindset which doesn't like getting involved in protests, i am the same....i can think of nothing more trite than going on street demos waving placards no matter what the cause.

The only thing worse than that is doing nothing.

The attitude now is if you don't love it then leave it. Another beautiful import from America. Used to be if you don't want to lose it then defend it with your life. Well we lost football a while back, without a whimper. Now even raising a banner is seen as blasphemous by these people who are most certainly brainwashed. Stick the price up to £50 and you'll get the wrong sort for sure. But, you know, the people who really matter in all this are benefitting year on year. They are winning big every season and Wenger is their go-to guy. They stole everything they claim they own.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Don't know. Think there are plenty of fans up and down the country who go to watch far more turgid football than we could ever hope to produce.

It's all relative, our football is frustrating because it's all huff and puff without any end product.....but a lot of sides can barely even string passes together let alone all the rest.

Look at Villa fans travelling to Watford at the weekend even cheering when Villa get a corner, it's a gallows humour....they know they've been screwed.....far, far more deeply than we have ever been screwed but it's a ritual for them. They aren't happy with what's going on but they probably go to Villa Park week in week out this season seeing terrible performances and likely defeats.

It doesn't speak of a wider issue, it's just what some football fans do.

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't know. Think there are plenty of fans up and down the country who go to watch far more turgid football than we could ever hope to produce.

It's all relative, our football is frustrating because it's all huff and puff without any end product.....but a lot of sides can barely even string passes together let alone all the rest.

Look at Villa fans travelling to Watford at the weekend even cheering when Villa get a corner, it's a gallows humour....they know they've been screwed.....far, far more deeply than we have ever been screwed but it's a ritual for them. They aren't happy with what's going on but they probably go to Villa Park week in week out this season seeing terrible performances and likely defeats.

It doesn't speak of a wider issue, it's just what some football fans do.

Villa is the club we should be looking at to see where we are going if things don't change. What an absolute shambles for a club that size and with that level of support to be relegated. But that's what eventually will happen when the heart is ripped out of a club and it becomes a vehicle for a few self interested wankers.

[Özim]

Don't know. Think there are plenty of fans up and down the country who go to watch far more turgid football than we could ever hope to produce.

It's all relative, our football is frustrating because it's all huff and puff without any end product.....but a lot of sides can barely even string passes together let alone all the rest.

Look at Villa fans travelling to Watford at the weekend even cheering when Villa get a corner, it's a gallows humour....they know they've been screwed.....far, far more deeply than we have ever been screwed but it's a ritual for them. They aren't happy with what's going on but they probably go to Villa Park week in week out this season seeing terrible performances and likely defeats.

It doesn't speak of a wider issue, it's just what some football fans do.

Different markets to be fair, if you go to McDonalds and have a bad meal it's £10 down the drain, if you go to a Michelin restaurant and get served up rubbish it's a few hundred pounds down the drain and you might even complain.

Arsenal charge top dollar, therefore they should deliver a top quality product.

[Niall_Quinn]

You think he could be that devious? I've seen how the club have used the media to circulate a half truth in the past so it's possible. But the consequences of this will be felt for years if they keep this up.

I don't think it's devious. It's arrogant, in your face. A dare to do something about it. They imagine they have all the power because there's a queue waiting to be fucked. It's impossible. To see real change at Arsenal that queue needs to disappear and the empty seats need to snowball. But that harms the club. This is what you get in a hostage situation. You can't do what's right because some cunt has a gun to the head of something or someone you love. Then again, the nasty, soulless face of corporatism maybe isn't so loveable and people will say fuck it, shoot the bitch, she's changed. Maybe we'll find we don't love it any more.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think it is an assumption, these are people for who Arsenal is a ritual like going down the pub on a friday night or taking the kids to the park on a sunday. It doesn't say any more or less about them, and i'm not saying it's a majority but there is a sizeable proportion of the crowd who come win, lose or draw, go home and don't think about Arsenal again until the next game.

Does it mean they don't have opinions on the direction the club is going?.....it just means that outside of a coffee break in the office they probably don't spend a great time on social media/forums talking about it

That's just another sweeping assumption. How do you know what people are doing after games?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I agree, but the problem is fans who don't agree who feel that this sense of expectation that other fans feel is being imposed upon them.
I think change of management is long overdue and then and only then will we see the depth of the malfeasance of the Board.
But if people say well Wenger deserves to leave when he wants to and fan protests during games are counter-productive, whilst i vehemently disagree telling them they are pliant or brainwashed isn't exactly helping either.

[Power n Glory]

Especially when the cycle at Arsenal precisely matches the normal routine for most people. A never changing humdrum devoid of the slightest hint of escapism. Over at Leicester we see what football is supposed to be about. Not title win but the ride, the ups, the downs, the expectations, the hopes, the fears, biting nails, sometimes the disbelief. What do we have here? Fuck all. Supporting Arsenal is like paying to work for somebody. Worse than the daily grind. And why?

Because some greedy bastard has bought the place and is being serviced by a man who claims to love football but really loves power and the structures of power. How could he love football and tolerate that soul sapping nothingness served up on the pitch every week?

Pretty much.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's just another sweeping assumption. How do you know what people are doing after games?

Of course it's a hyperbolic statement, i am frankly surprised that i am having to explain that "No i'm not saying these people literally go home after games".

I am saying that on balance it's unlikely that these people spend a great deal of time opining about the state of the club on social media and fan forums. And whilst I am not trying to use them as templates, yes i have worked with fans down the years who are season ticket holders go to every game at the Emirates go for a few pints at nearby supporters pubs afterwards and then will go off and do things like have dinner out in London with the missus or go home and have friends round to entertain, and unless prompted by myself don't tend to talk about Arsenal during the week unless they are offering me tickets.

They have opinions about lack of spending, about the manager etc.....but they won't protest about it because it's not their thing.

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree, but the problem is fans who don't agree who feel that this sense of expectation that other fans feel is being imposed upon them.
I think change of management is long overdue and then and only then will we see the depth of the malfeasance of the Board.
But if people say well Wenger deserves to leave when he wants to and fan protests during games are counter-productive, whilst i vehemently disagree telling them they are pliant or brainwashed isn't exactly helping either.

The aim of calling somebody a cunt is not to encourage them to engage in debate. It's to make them feel as bad as possible. It's to demonstrate your contempt for them in the most certain manner. Now then, these cunts are most certainly brainwashed. Like any cultists, the Cult of Wenger acolytes can't be reasoned with. The brainwashed and the desperate have sat for 12 years watching Wenger degenerate. Finally the desperate have stood up to raise the alarm - a bit late but better than never. Only now have most of them realised they have been part of a cult. So there's a revulsion aimed at the ones who are still sitting there chanting with beatific visage. You want to slap the cunts but you know they'll consider it martyrdom. You want to get out of the nuthouse but it's your fucking house! At least it used to be before these nut jobs moved in.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The aim of calling somebody a cunt is not to encourage them to engage in debate. It's to make them feel as bad as possible.

First off good luck with that....never found that was a particularly good way of getting people to do what I want, but maybe I haven't been persuasive enough when I've used the word.

With the greatest respect you are the dictionary definition of apathetic in your attitude to life....that's your choice but your whole mantra is abstaining

[Power n Glory]

Of course it's a hyperbolic statement, i am frankly surprised that i am having to explain that "No i'm not saying these people literally go home after games".



Then stop making such statements! :lol: Damn!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Then stop making such statements! :lol: Damn!

I'm sorry, i forgot along with Letters you are an Autism sufferer, on the board to meet our diversity quota. I will be careful with my wording in future:doh:

[selassie]

Different markets to be fair, if you go to McDonalds and have a bad meal it's £10 down the drain, if you go to a Michelin restaurant and get served up rubbish it's a few hundred pounds down the drain and you might even complain.

Arsenal charge top dollar, therefore they should deliver a top quality product.

Yep, totally agree. That in itself is a major problem at Arsenal and the whole business model is a total nonsense. They charge the highest prices in the world for us to see played out seasons year upon year. We should be grateful because "We are not fighting relegation" they are Wenger's words.

If this is all a business, because it is, why are we paying exuberant prices for an above average product?

Wenger came out with a statement in his weekly press conference last week..."We live within our means and we respect those values, we are self sufficient", shame the self sufficiency doesn't translate to improving the football team.

[Power n Glory]

I'm sorry, i forgot along with Letters you are an Autism sufferer, on the board to meet our diversity quota. I will be careful with my wording in future:doh:

Careful. Wouldn't want you to get all upset like last time. :good:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Careful. Wouldn't want you to get all upset like last time. :good:

You mean where you thought i was upset but actually wasn't?

Well actually that's a bit of a lie. I was getting frustrated that you seemed unable to understand basic English, i felt like Basil Fawlty trying to get Manuel to comprehend that he wants him to clean the windows.

But either way the confusion isn't your fault, with your condition....human emotions are a bit of an enigma to you :)

[Power n Glory]

You mean where you thought i was upset but actually wasn't?

Well actually that's a bit of a lie. I was getting frustrated that you seemed unable to understand basic English, i felt like Basil Fawlty trying to get Manuel to comprehend that he wants him to clean the windows.

But either way the confusion isn't your fault, with your condition....human emotions are a bit of an enigma to you :)

:doh: Forever the twit. Moving on....

[Niall_Quinn]

First off good luck with that....never found that was a particularly good way of getting people to do what I want, but maybe I haven't been persuasive enough when I've used the word.

With the greatest respect you are the dictionary definition of apathetic in your attitude to life....that's your choice but your whole mantra is abstaining

I'm the exact opposite. All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to comply. Regardless, I'm not trying to get these muppets to do anything. They are a lost cause. They are supposedly supporting a sports team that allegedly has the aim of winning. A decade of proof that winning is nowhere near the agenda yet these guys still take the high ground and claim their complacency and compliance is a sure sign of their undying love. It's the reverse of course. They can't possibly give a shit about the club if they are happy to see it in this state and happy for it to perpetuate until the Lord decides he'll ascend elsewhere. That saying, it's Arsenal not Arsene, it's not true. This club has become all about one man, cult leader extraordinaire. Of course it's wrong to chase a manager who has done a lot for this club IN THE PAST and shout cunt into his face. That's out of order, disrespectful under any circumstances even when Wenger himself is effectively shouting cunt back at the fans. But when you poke a little bit of card with 'Time for Change' on it and these arsehole Wengerites start up on loyalty and class and decency, well fuck them. What are they pretending to be? For me tis goes beyond football. This extends into wider life. These are the people who vote for the lesser of two evils, the people who ostracise any who point out an actual path to constructive change. These are the people who stand in the way of human progress. They infect all walks of life. They are meat for the status quo. Or summarised - cunts.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I forgot where we were, frankly the conversation about our predicament is as stale as the situation at Arsenal

You get to the point where even the overpaid armchair critics who work for BT, BBC and Skysports are bored of talking about the same thing in relation to us season upon season.

If we were a loaf of sliced bread we'd have mould spores on the crusts, which invariably Wenger would cut off and eat the bread instead of buying a new loaf.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm the exact opposite. All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to comply. Regardless, I'm not trying to get these muppets to do anything. They are a lost cause. They are supposedly supporting a sports team that allegedly has the aim of winning. A decade of proof that winning is nowhere near the agenda yet these guys still take the high ground and claim their complacency and compliance is a sure sign of their undying love. It's the reverse of course. They can't possibly give a shit about the club if they are happy to see it in this state and happy for it to perpetuate until the Lord decides he'll ascend elsewhere. That saying, it's Arsenal not Arsene, it's not true. This club has become all about one man, cult leader extraordinaire. Of course it's wrong to chase a manager who has done a lot for this club IN THE PAST and shout cunt into his face. That's out of order, disrespectful under any circumstances even when Wenger himself is effectively shouting cunt back at the fans. But when you poke a little bit of card with 'Time for Change' on it and these arsehole Wengerites start up on loyalty and class and decency, well fuck them. What are they pretending to be? For me tis goes beyond football. This extends into wider life. These are the people who vote for the lesser of two evils, the people who ostracise any who point out an actual path to constructive change. These are the people who stand in the way of human progress. They infect all walks of life. They are meat for the status quo. Or summarised - cunts.

None of which explains what you actually do short of offer commentary on the situation. Don't get me wrong i don't in anyway expect you to do anything more.
By your argument evil men are prospering because other than saying what they are, what are you doing to bring an end to their reign?.

I'm not doing anything because I don't care enough

[Niall_Quinn]

None of which explains what you actually do short of offer commentary on the situation. Don't get me wrong i don't in anyway expect you to do anything more.
By your argument evil men are prospering because other than saying what they are, what are you doing to bring an end to their reign?.

I'm not doing anything because I don't care enough

I don't care enough about the football either. It's the similarities between this particular situation and the wider context that irritates me. The unproductive minority fucking over and leeching off the productive majority as usual. Even that is expected. What really irks me is when the victims bend over and beg for more. It's too undignified for words. People should be better than that, much better. Like the club in a smaller way. Challenging for a top 4 sport every season while passing up every change to excel, without fail - that's embarrassing, it's anti-sport, the glorification of failure, a celebration of a lack of endeavour, worship of cowardice. Hard to put into words but I instinctively know these creatures when I encounter them.

As for what I can do myself. In terms of football and Arsenal, don't give them any more money. That's all they care about so that's the only meaningful protest. That's why the Wengerdrone arseholes celebrating their slavish sing-song are missing the point. 10,000 empty seats you subservient wankers! In a wider context, it doesn't do to say too much about anything these days. Too many good little citizens read to serve.

[Power n Glory]

I'm the exact opposite. All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to comply. Regardless, I'm not trying to get these muppets to do anything. They are a lost cause. They are supposedly supporting a sports team that allegedly has the aim of winning. A decade of proof that winning is nowhere near the agenda yet these guys still take the high ground and claim their complacency and compliance is a sure sign of their undying love. It's the reverse of course. They can't possibly give a shit about the club if they are happy to see it in this state and happy for it to perpetuate until the Lord decides he'll ascend elsewhere. That saying, it's Arsenal not Arsene, it's not true. This club has become all about one man, cult leader extraordinaire. Of course it's wrong to chase a manager who has done a lot for this club IN THE PAST and shout cunt into his face. That's out of order, disrespectful under any circumstances even when Wenger himself is effectively shouting cunt back at the fans. But when you poke a little bit of card with 'Time for Change' on it and these arsehole Wengerites start up on loyalty and class and decency, well fuck them. What are they pretending to be? For me tis goes beyond football. This extends into wider life. These are the people who vote for the lesser of two evils, the people who ostracise any who point out an actual path to constructive change. These are the people who stand in the way of human progress. They infect all walks of life. They are meat for the status quo. Or summarised - cunts.

We're in trouble as a club if fans start drawing such lines. We really are. It's why we need a new manager asap.

[Xhaka Can’t]

This guy, how deluded, he's like a mini Wenger?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlDvP2Esq2A

Also heard that apparently Arsenal fans were insulting other Arsenal fans with their banners, protest bits of paper how ridiculous, people are allowed to make their views known.

According to what you hear it seems that a lot of Arsenal fans are just frightened of change and still back the manager, what these people don't realise is he'll leave at some point and the same thing will happen. Moh was right you have to respect fans of other clubs for their solidarity, our fans prefer to put up and shut up.

How you can back the manager after all this I don't know to be honest, but by the sounds of some of them he can basically do anything he likes with no accountability at all because once upon a time he had a successful spell...past glories and all that.

That interview was so ridiculous I thought he had to be the guy in charge of the Club's social media.

Right up to the point where he said Walcott was so bad he wouldn't even play him in his own testimonial.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't care enough about the football either. It's the similarities between this particular situation and the wider context that irritates me. The unproductive minority fucking over and leeching off the productive majority as usual. Even that is expected. What really irks me is when the victims bend over and beg for more. It's too undignified for words. People should be better than that, much better. Like the club in a smaller way. Challenging for a top 4 sport every season while passing up every change to excel, without fail - that's embarrassing, it's anti-sport, the glorification of failure, a celebration of a lack of endeavour, worship of cowardice. Hard to put into words but I instinctively know these creatures when I encounter them.

As for what I can do myself. In terms of football and Arsenal, don't give them any more money. That's all they care about so that's the only meaningful protest. That's why the Wengerdrone arseholes celebrating their slavish sing-song are missing the point. 10,000 empty seats you subservient wankers! In a wider context, it doesn't do to say too much about anything these days. Too many good little citizens read to serve.

I'm the same as you in regards to the fact that instead of getting angry I'm just not going to open my wallet to Arsenal for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself as a victim I just see myself as an unsatisfied customer who won't give the club his patronage.

Using Arsenal as a microcosm of society in general is interesting. If for example someone pays a monthly phone bill and hasn't bothered to check that they can get a better deal for less it's not subservience that is their key motivation it is laziness....if they don't feel financially crippled by their situation they aren't going to take steps to improve it.
And that I would venture is the same mentality held by people in society in general, they don't care that they are being systematically robbed because they still have enough to go to the pub on a Friday. They know it's not right, but unless their back is to the wall they don't feel inclined to step up and do something about it.

When people protest it's because they think something has enough of an impact on them that they have no choice but to fight back against it, but relative comfort has never been a galvanising force for change. And I think this is where we are with Arsenal fans, they don't think third or fourth is good enough but neither do they think it's bad enough to necessitate placards and demonstrations.

The thing that you are bemoaning is essentially human nature.

[Power n Glory]

That interview was so ridiculous I thought he had to be the guy in charge of the Club's social media.

Right up to the point where he said Walcott was so bad he wouldn't even play him in his own testimonial.

Ok yeah. That guy is a cunt. :lol: Maybe NQ has a point.

Wenger has a cult following.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I stopped listening after he said "he's invested heavily in this club" in reference to Kroenke

No he hasn't, he hasn't invested anything in Arsenal he's only taken from the club. He's a shareholder he didn't pay for any of these players....idiot.

If he talks about the size of the club and its potential to expand it is on an upward trajectory however for it to reap any great benefit from that it needs to have a manager capable of winning league titles and the vast marketing and sponsorship revenues avaliable to a team that wins major trophies.

[GP]

He speaks eloquently which people will easily mistake for intelligence.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm the same as you in regards to the fact that instead of getting angry I'm just not going to open my wallet to Arsenal for the foreseeable future, I don't see myself as a victim I just see myself as an unsatisfied customer who won't give the club his patronage.

Using Arsenal as a microcosm of society in general is interesting. If for example someone pays a monthly phone bill and hasn't bothered to check that they can get a better deal for less it's not subservience that is their key motivation it is laziness....if they don't feel financially crippled by their situation they aren't going to take steps to improve it.
And that I would venture is the same mentality held by people in society in general, they don't care that they are being systematically robbed because they still have enough to go to the pub on a Friday. They know it's not right, but unless their back is to the wall they don't feel inclined to step up and do something about it.

When people protest it's because they think something has enough of an impact on them that they have no choice but to fight back against it, but relative comfort has never been a galvanising force for change. And I think this is where we are with Arsenal fans, they don't think third or fourth is good enough but neither do they think it's bad enough to necessitate placards and demonstrations.

The thing that you are bemoaning is essentially human nature.

No. It's only human nature in the context of the present environment. Change the environment and people will change too. This is a long established reality. All I'm saying is try FFS. At least try. You might fail but you'll be better for the effort. When you just slump into a pointless pattern of existence and kid yourself it's the only option then you're as good as dead, like this club under Wenger. If these fans can be bothered to go to the game then why not invest in it? Go to win and don't accept it when you are told it is not possible to win, don't accept the shitty excuses and certainly don't say thanks when you get the shitty excuses dumped on you. What's wrong with these people? Don't they even get what football is about? They don't win, they don't see decent football being played, they get mercilessly ripped off, then the manager comes out and claims the ones who protest are bringing the club down. And the rest sing. This is a lunatic asylum that Wenger has built. Jim Jones would have left because it would be too weird for him. There's no point to this club any more except for waiting on the latest announcement handed down from Wenger. Will he go, will he stay, is he Jesus sent to extract the best in man? Loony bin.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think this is where it always comes back to where we fundamentally differ, you think the environment creates the human nature I think the human nature creates the environment.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think this is where it always comes back to where we fundamentally differ, you think the environment creates the human nature I think the human nature creates the environment.

Get yourself a funny black guy and I'll make a $1 bet with you.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Get yourself a funny black guy and I'll make a $1 bet with you.


https://youtu.be/YOCNCSzfNgM