EU Referndum Exit Poll

[Letters]

If you voted, how did you vote? :popcorn:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Will vote later but it's going to be Remain ofc. I'm not a selfish old fart who's prepared to screw over a generation of young people just because I don't like foreigners.

For what it's worth my mum, dad and brother are all going to vote to Remain as well, which is surprising as my dad is usually quite conservative and a reliable Tory voter.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't really follow politics as much as I should but I'm going to vote remain. I haven't heard any benefits of leaving that really resonate with me.

[Özim]

I'm not a selfish old fart who's prepared to screw over a generation of young people just because I don't like foreigners.

Not very reasonable opinion to be honest, people are entitled to vote as they want without being made to feel bad about it, remain may suit your needs but if it doesn't suit others that's up to them and their entitled to their opinion.

Moreover the above isn't the reason to people would vote to leave, it's narrowminded to think so.

[Letters]

Not very reasonable opinion to be honest, people are entitled to vote as they want without being made to feel bad about it, remain may suit your needs but if it doesn't suit others that's up to them and their entitled to their opinion.

Moreover the above isn't the reason to people would vote to leave, it's narrowminded to think so.

It is a reason why some people are voting to leave.

And you don't think it's reasonable to consider what's best for the country as a whole? Which, generally, is also what's best for your family anyway.

[Özim]

It is a reason why some people are voting to leave.

And you don't think it's reasonable to consider what's best for the country as a whole? Which, generally, is also what's best for your family anyway.

Maybe a small percentage but then some are probably wanting to stay to line their pockets further so it evens itself out,, there's been a lot of scaremongering and labelling IMO.

Well yes, but to be honest noone actually knows what's best for the country here, it's all just speculation.

It's personal choice really and perhaps also down to personal experience regarding EU policies.

[GP]

I'll vote after work but it will be remain.

[Power n Glory]

Voting after work to remain.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Really don't think it's such a small minority tbh especially when the Leave campaign had that racially tinged poster of all those middle eastern refugees which drew ire from all quarters. Not to mention the front page of the Daily Mail & The Sun for the past few days have been various images of Afghan's boarding lorries trying to come over here or camping out in Calais. As noted in the other thread and by various commentators a large chunk of the leave campaign's tactics have be to appeal to xenophobia and people's worst instincts.

The absolute joke in all of this is that being in or out of the EU isn't in any way going to stop Syrians, Afghan's etc jumping on lorries or trying to run through the Eurotunnel in order to try and get into Britain (in fact it could get a lot worse). But hey a picture speaks a thousand words and get's old people all riled up.

[Letters]

Maybe a small percentage but then some are probably wanting to stay to line their pockets further so it evens itself out,, there's been a lot of scaremongering and labelling IMO.

Well yes, but to be honest noone actually knows what's best for the country here, it's all just speculation.

It's personal choice really and perhaps also down to personal experience regarding EU policies.

There have been loads of scaremongering from Remain, but there have been a lot of downright lies from Leave, and leaving isn't going to fix half the problems that some think it will.
It is a personal choice and yes, people's personal experiences will influence how people view the EU, but there is a bigger picture.

[Özim]

Really don't think it's such a small minority tbh especially when the Leave campaign had that racially tinged poster of all those middle eastern refugees which drew ire from all quarters. Not to mention the front page of the Daily Mail & The Sun for the past few days have been various images of Afghan's boarding lorries trying to come over here or camping out in Calais. As noted in the other thread and by various commentators a large chunk of the leave campaign's tactics have be to appeal to xenophobia and people's worst instincts.

The absolute joke in all of this is that being in or out of the EU isn't in any way going to stop Syrians, Afghan's etc jumping on lorries or trying to run through the Eurotunnel in order to try and get into Britain (in fact it could get a lot worse). But hey a picture speaks a thousand words and get's old people all riled up.

What leaving the EU does those is allows you to control your borders, that's not to say you don't let people in, of course you do, but it has to be done at a manageable, sustainable rate, there's a shortage of housing in the UK so if you let endless amounts of people in all it does is drive prices up and make it more difficult for people to live.

Problem with the EU is that people will invariably want to come to the more affluent countries (understandable), so the burden isn't shared as it should be, this creates its own problems with regards resources.

[Özim]

There have been loads of scaremongering from Remain, but there have been a lot of downright lies from Leave, and leaving isn't going to fix half the problems that some think it will.
It is a personal choice and yes, people's personal experiences will influence how people view the EU, but there is a bigger picture.

Again noone really knows, everything is just pure speculation, but people are entitled to make the choice they want to make and there's nothing wrong with that, just because someone votes one way it doesn't make them the root of all evil, or indeed wrong.

[Letters]

Again noone really knows, everything is just pure speculation, but people are entitled to make the choice they want to make and there's nothing wrong with that, just because someone votes one way it doesn't make them the root of all evil, or indeed wrong.

If they're voting Leave because they're racists or xenophobes then they ARE wrong for 2 reasons:
1) They're idiots, clearly. I don't think I need to explain that
2) Leaving won't stop immigration. The shutters aren't going to come down tomorrow if it's a Leave vote, it'll take years to sort out and when it is it's quite plausible that a deal with the EU would mean conceding freedom of movement anyway.

Not every reason for voting (either way) is as valid as every other.

[Özim]

If they're voting Leave because they're racists or xenophobes then they ARE wrong for 2 reasons:
1) They're idiots, clearly. I don't think I need to explain that
2) Leaving won't stop immigration. The shutters aren't going to come down tomorrow if it's a Leave vote, it'll take years to sort out and when it is it's quite plausible that a deal with the EU would mean conceding freedom of movement anyway.

Not every reason for voting (either way) is as valid as every other.

Again you're talking about a small minority, you get small ignorant minorities in polls all the time, if you think people voting out are racist them you've been brainwashed by the media yourself.

I could say the same thing about the stay campaign, full of greedy so and so's who will screw over their grandmother for an extra few bucks, but again that's the minority.

[Letters]

I don't think I am talking about a small minority. 1 in 8 people voted for UKIP at the last General Election...

[Özim]

I don't think I am talking about a small minority. 1 in 8 people voted for UKIP at the last General Election...

It was clearly a vote to highlight how uhnappy they are with the two existing main parties, to think these people are racist because they voted for UKIP is again narrowminded, that is just hearsay.

The two main parties haven't covered themselves in glory with all the expenses debarcle amonst other things, people didn't trust them, it's not hard to see why they'd vote for someone else is it?

[Letters]

No, it's not hard to see why people would vote for someone else, but does the someone else have to be a party whose basic policy is based on xenophobia?
Oh, and Farage has claimed shitloads in expenses as an MEP and pretty much never turns up to votes there anyway.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

What leaving the EU does those is allows you to control your borders, that's not to say you don't let people in, of course you do, but it has to be done at a manageable, sustainable rate, there's a shortage of housing in the UK so if you let endless amounts of people in all it does is drive prices up and make it more difficult for people to live.

Problem with the EU is that people will invariably want to come to the more affluent countries (understandable), so the burden isn't shared as it should be, this creates its own problems with regards resources.

We can't stop people within the EU from coming here (well we actually can but that's another story and a massive tl;dr that I'm not prepared to write now) but we can stop people from outside the EU, i.e. the exact people camping in Calais and jumping onto passing lorries. The reason some manage to come through is not because of the EU but because our border patrol there is crap. So all the Leave propaganda showing pictures of all these people is just stupid and done to get people riled up about immigration as if leaving the EU would solve it.

Again do you think, these people are suddenly going to stop throwing themselves onto lorries or running through the Eurotunnel if we leave the EU?


So what? We tank our economy, throw young people into mass unemployment and screw ourselves over by leaving the EU just to make ourselves a less desirable place for foreigners to try and come to? Yeah that'll show them! Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face.

[Niall_Quinn]

They aren't having an exit poll. No surprise there. They pulled the same trick for the Scottish Referendum.

As always, where's the refuse option?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Exit polls are expensive tbh and difficult to do for a referendum where there isn't the past historical data to weigh results. Don't think it's a massive conspiracy to steal the result NQ.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think I am talking about a small minority. 1 in 8 people voted for UKIP at the last General Election...

Classic. If you vote UKIP you are a racist. :haha:

Superb stuff.

[GP]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CloSGbsWAAA4W3t.jpg

No brainer, tbh.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Classic. If you vote UKIP you are a racist. :haha:

Superb stuff.

Obviously not. Not all UKIP voters are racist.

But if you're a racist then chances are that you're a UKIP supporter.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Fuck Daenerys tbh.


And I mean that quite literally.

[Niall_Quinn]

Exit polls are expensive tbh and difficult to do for a referendum where there isn't the past historical data to weigh results. Don't think it's a massive conspiracy to steal the result NQ.

Didn't say it was to steal the vote, they don't actually need to do that this time around because there are many contingencies in place. And it appears Remain has won this one fair and square (well as fair and square as a farce can be). But they may want to pop a couple of extra points on the margin I suppose. The margin will be important.

[Heisenberg]

It's not a trick, it's because it's a referendum. Exit polls primarily calculate swing, so you need a baseline to compare against. Referendums don't tend to have those so they don't really do exit polls.

[Niall_Quinn]

Obviously not. Not all UKIP voters are racist.

But if you're a racist then chances are that you're a UKIP supporter.

I would suspect the likelihood is traditional racists (not respectable racists) and other bottom feeders don't vote at all.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not a trick, it's because it's a referendum. Exit polls primarily calculate swing, so you need a baseline to compare against. Referendums don't tend to have those so they don't really do exit polls.

A straight up and down exit poll on a referendum would be extremely illuminating. None of the complications you mention exist. The media could do it easily enough, but I suppose the main intent is to ensure a trend doesn't develop that could influence the outcome.

[Heisenberg]

Also I've seen the point about the generational divide in a few places. While I obviously appreciate that people my age are going to deal with the consequences of this vote more than older voters by virtue of having more of our lives ahead of us, it feels like specious reasoning to me because it seems to imply that older people are being vindictive. Regardless of whether they're right or wrong, they (broad strokes to refer to older leave voters) probably think they are doing us a favour rather than deliberately fucking us over. And of course there's the principle of universal suffrage.

[Heisenberg]

That's not really relevant because exit polls can't legally be published until after polls close.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's not really relevant because exit polls can't legally be published until after polls close.

But we know that's not how the media play it. As you say, would be nice to know if that generational gap actually exists or is just another campaign device. An exit poll would give us all sorts of useful information.

[Özim]

Obviously not. Not all UKIP voters are racist.

But if you're a racist then chances are that you're a UKIP supporter.

More likely the BNP, or like NQ said not at all.

[Özim]

We can't stop people within the EU from coming here (well we actually can but that's another story and a massive tl;dr that I'm not prepared to write now) but we can stop people from outside the EU, i.e. the exact people camping in Calais and jumping onto passing lorries. The reason some manage to come through is not because of the EU but because our border patrol there is crap. So all the Leave propaganda showing pictures of all these people is just stupid and done to get people riled up about immigration as if leaving the EU would solve it.

Again do you think, these people are suddenly going to stop throwing themselves onto lorries or running through the Eurotunnel if we leave the EU?


So what? We tank our economy, throw young people into mass unemployment and screw ourselves over by leaving the EU just to make ourselves a less desirable place for foreigners to try and come to? Yeah that'll show them! Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face.

Not strictly true, Australia do it do they not? If you're not part of the EU you can decide how many people come in and they EU can't tell you otherwise. I've got no problem with people coming in incidentally but it is a good idea to be able to control this according to a countries resources.

Right now if in the EU any person who comes from a country that is part of the EU can move to any country in the EU, thing is new countries are joining the EU all the time and naturally people want to go to the more affluent countries so the problem is compounded further.

That's just pure speculation, you've clearly bought into the media BS, there's no conclusive proof either way, only hearsay.

[Özim]

Incidentally I've seen quite a few posts from Pro EU people on Facebook etc with some they're attittude leaves a lot to be desired, it's that hollier than thou attitude again, they don't do themselves any favours by saying stuff like that.

One of them actually said to unfriend them if they vote out, how narrowminded, kinda similar to what we've seen on this thread.

Like I said it's up to the individual which way they vote and noone should be able to tell them it's right or wrong or to try and claim they are screwing other people over.

[Letters]

That's not really relevant because exit polls can't legally be published until after polls close.

Apparently John Oliver's thoughts on the referendum aren't being shown till after the polls close tonight.

[Letters]

Not strictly true, Australia do it do they not? If you're not part of the EU you can decide how many people come in and they EU can't tell you otherwise. I've got no problem with people coming in incidentally but it is a good idea to be able to control this according to a countries resources.

Right now if in the EU any person who comes from a country that is part of the EU can move to any country in the EU, thing is new countries are joining the EU all the time and naturally people want to go to the more affluent countries so the problem is compounded further.

That's just pure speculation, you've clearly bought into the media BS, there's no conclusive proof either way, only hearsay.

But immigrants have demonstrably added to our economy, so you say "our resources" they (you...) are adding more to those resources than they take out.
So what's the problem? It's adding to our economy, the thing about the immigrant coming over here to sponge of our system is a complete myth. People coming here tend to be young and coming here to work.
It does put pressures on our infrastructure and I do have concerns about how sustainable it all is but the solution to that is to invest in the infrastructure.
If our economy does take a nosedive then the situation will sort itself out anyway as there will be no jobs for them to come to.
I don't think our Economy will completely tank if we leave but every forecast indicates a short term downturn.

[I am invisible]

Remain.

Just!

Very close call in the end. I can understand the appeal of an independent Britain in a lot of ways, and I'm far from the EU's biggest fan, but right from the start this whole referendum has felt like a trial to me, with the EU as the defendant, and Leave as the prosecution, and as such I've always felt that the onus lied more with the Leave campaign to prove their point (beyond all reasonable doubt, if you will)? In the end, I don't felt they did enough - still too much doubt for me go with it. My life is pretty OK as it currently is, and I didn't really hear enough to persuade me that it would be worth all the uncertainty and upheaval that it would casue.

Also, it's a bit of a safety vote, in that I don't think this is something that is going to go away any time soon - much like the Scottish referendum, I can see the threat of another one (and another one, and another one) hanging over us for many, many years to come, so I'll be watching the EU a little closer form now on to see what they're getting up to. This buys me some time to form my own opinion on the subject, free from the distracting, and largely unhelpful Leave / Remain campaigns.

To be honest I think both campaigns were pretty grubby and shabbily run, and if there was an option for everyone involved on either side to be publicly spanked then I'd probably have voted for that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Apparently John Oliver's thoughts on the referendum aren't being shown till after the polls close tonight.

Interesting, because I thought his silly hit piece was very unlike him. Why he swapped satire for propaganda is puzzling.

[Niall_Quinn]

Remain.

Just!

Very close call in the end. I can understand the appeal of an independent Britain in a lot of ways, and I'm far from the EU's biggest fan, but right from the start this whole referendum has felt like a trial to me, with the EU as the defendant, and Leave as the prosecution, and as such I've always felt that the onus lied more with the Leave campaign to prove their point (beyond all reasonable doubt, if you will)? In the end, I don't felt they did enough - still too much doubt for me go with it. My life is pretty OK as it currently is, and I didn't really hear enough to persuade me that it would be worth all the uncertainty and upheaval that it would casue.

Also, it's a bit of a safety vote, in that I don't think this is something that is going to go away any time soon - much like the Scottish referendum, I can see the threat of another one (and another one, and another one) hanging over us for many, many years to come, so I'll be watching the EU a little closer form now on to see what they're getting up to. This buys me some time to form my own opinion on the subject, free from the distracting, and largely unhelpful Leave / Remain campaigns.

To be honest I think both campaigns were pretty grubby and shabbily run, and if there was an option for everyone involved on either side to be publicly spanked then I'd probably have voted for that.

One of the better argued Remain opinions I have heard. That would be something tremendously positive to come from what was otherwise farce, if ALL Europeans take a good hard look at this EU and figure for themselves, what it is, who it is, what their agenda is. And another thing, surely many people will have noticed just how shallow and unimpressive their "leaders" and celebrities and "experts" are? I hope that impression sticks too.

[Özim]

But immigrants have demonstrably added to our economy, so you say "our resources" they (you...) are adding more to those resources than they take out.
So what's the problem? It's adding to our economy, the thing about the immigrant coming over here to sponge of our system is a complete myth. People coming here tend to be young and coming here to work.
It does put pressures on our infrastructure and I do have concerns about how sustainable it all is but the solution to that is to invest in the infrastructure.
If our economy does take a nosedive then the situation will sort itself out anyway as there will be no jobs for them to come to.
I don't think our Economy will completely tank if we leave but every forecast indicates a short term downturn.

I'm just putting forward one counter argument, by resources I was specifically focussing on housing which due to it's shortage is becoming unaffordable for many, both in terms of buying and renting.

As I mentioned though, as more and more countries join the EU with free movement invariably many will end up here because they can earn more here (why wouldn't they want to come), but it doesn't help the housing problem.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

More likely the BNP, or like NQ said not at all.

BNP are basically non existent these days with barely enough members to fill a living room. All the racists who used to support them have moved over to UKIP.


Not strictly true, Australia do it do they not? If you're not part of the EU you can decide how many people come in and they EU can't tell you otherwise. I've got no problem with people coming in incidentally but it is a good idea to be able to control this according to a countries resources.

Right now if in the EU any person who comes from a country that is part of the EU can move to any country in the EU, thing is new countries are joining the EU all the time and naturally people want to go to the more affluent countries so the problem is compounded further.

That's just pure speculation, you've clearly bought into the media BS, there's no conclusive proof either way, only hearsay.

Massive false equivalency. Australia don't have a massive big fucking tunnel connecting them to mainland Asia with goods and products constantly flowing through it to sustain their economy. We do. It's a lot harder for us to stop it than the Aussies.

And I'm not arguing we should let these people in; personally I'm of the opinion that immigration needs to be controlled and we're nearly full as it is. My point is that is that the refugee/Calais situation has absolutely zero fucking to do with the EU and shouldn't factor into the debate at all.


Pure speculation. :lol:

All the leading economists and people with insight & expertise in these matters have said it's going to happen. It's not rocket science either and you don't need to be an expert to figure it out; companies like Nissan which employing thousands of people in the North East in good paying manufacturing jobs aren't going to stick around if they can't then sell the cars they produce easily to Europe. Likewise, capital will flow out and people aren't going to invest in the UK if they feel we're not going to be globally competitive.

Heck even the Boris and most of the leave side have accepted that there will be recession in the short term at least, they just believe that things will work out better long term. Obviously they being rather well off, are perfectly content to take that gamble. It doesn't affect them and fuck the poor people that will be laid off and the youngsters who'll struggle to find a job as companies leave the UK.

[I am invisible]

One of the better argued Remain opinions I have heard. That would be something tremendously positive to come from what was otherwise farce, if ALL Europeans take a good hard look at this EU and figure for themselves, what it is, who it is, what their agenda is. And another thing, surely many people will have noticed just how shallow and unimpressive their "leaders" and celebrities and "experts" are? I hope that impression sticks too.

The overriding impression I've been left with from our leaders is that they think we're stupid, and gullible. And, to be fair, they're probably right.

I'm not sure I'm really crossing my fingers for either side - I just didn't feel like I could vote any way other than Remain while I was still undecided: stay, and there might be another chance to leave at some point in the future; leave and I think that's it - there's no going back. I'm not ready to make that call yet, and this buys me some time.

I'll say this though: if Remain do win, then I'm kind of hoping that it's by a narrow margin - so narrow that it puts the fear of God up the EU, and makes them realise that they have to start really paying attention to people's concerns. An alternative is out there now - it may not have made the best case for itself this time around, but it'll be fixed in people's minds all the same. Win or lose, I think the EU comes out of this looking shadowy, bloated and meddling, and it's going to become the easiest thing in the world for a lot of people to lay the blame for every perceived injustice and shitty thing that's ever happened to them squarely at their feet.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I voted this morning.

There are a lot of things wrong with the EU, but in my view, none of what was really wrong and what needed to be done about it was really touched upon because the arguments would be too complex and boring to articulate. So both sides just played to people's fears and prejudices.

There are many positives and negatives regardless of the decision that is finally made. While it is a binary choice, the arguments should not have been reduced to binary positions.

Bearing in mind the overall effect on me, my family and in particular my sons future, I've voted Remain.

But I don't think this is all over, whatever the result, there are many challenges ahead. If this campaign was anything to go by, I don't see those challenges being dealt with effectively.

[Hump]

On first principles the case for leave seems overwhelming, anything that concentrates power in the hands of a few is not a god thing. And would exit be a step towards creating the chaos out of which would flow anarchist order – unfortunately not. The plebiscite is too busy getting angry at birds to worry about a society where ethical capital is evenly distributed.
So the pragmatically moral answer is to remain but, on balance. The economic arguments either way are pure hokum, and the immigration question is a smokescreen for inadequate social welfare and housing policy since the mid-seventies. So we are better off in, in terms of worker and consumer rights, and environmentally the EU makes the world a better place – albeit they could do more. So I’m remain – but haven’t taken my eye off the ball of what’s really needed, affordable housing, equitable taxation and saving the NHS.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Going out to vote when I've had my tea. Having one last first proper read through of it all now.

As much as I've been leaning 'Leave', I don't particularly have much faith in those whose job it would be to shape the country should we actually come out. Nor do I think there is any plan whatsoever. And if there is they did a piss poor job of articulating it. On the other hand, I'm not listening to what Richard Branson or David Beckham thinks either. And nor do I take much notice of the "economic experts" predicting the end of the days, because frankly, they're making it up just as much as Boris and Co. Which is another point, on anything thing I'd likely find myself on the opposite end of the spectrum to the likes of Boris, Gove or Priti Patel. Don't know if I could bring myself to share a bed with them on this. Though I suppose I could say the same about Osborne et al.

Either way, I think it'll actually be a fairly comfortable 'Remain'. Not massive, but something like 55/45.

[Power n Glory]

Just back from the polling station. The weather tried to make it as difficult as possible to travel anywhere in London today.

Voted remain. You can't trust these guys to negotiate better trade deals if we leave.

[Niall_Quinn]

Going out to vote when I've had my tea. Having one last first proper read through of it all now.

As much as I've been leaning 'Leave', I don't particularly have much faith in those whose job it would be to shape the country should we actually come out. Nor do I think there is any plan whatsoever. And if there is they did a piss poor job of articulating it. On the other hand, I'm not listening to what Richard Branson or David Beckham thinks either. And nor do I take much notice of the "economic experts" predicting the end of the days, because frankly, they're making it up just as much as Boris and Co. Which is another point, on anything thing I'd likely find myself on the opposite end of the spectrum to the likes of Boris, Gove or Priti Patel. Don't know if I could bring myself to share a bed with them on this. Though I suppose I could say the same about Osborne et al.

Either way, I think it'll actually be a fairly comfortable 'Remain'. Not massive, but something like 55/45.

The whole plan thing and the leadership thing is entirely irrelevant. That's the sad part about this campaign, the misdirection. Corporations decide national policy. Possibly Cromwell was the last to see a different arrangement. Even then, I'm not sure. I'm afraid you have made your decision on a raft of false pretences. I don't doubt your integrity but I can assure you, the people you voted for have no bearing on what that vote will amount to.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just back from the polling station. The weather tried to make it as difficult as possible to travel anywhere in London today.

Voted remain. You can't trust these guys to negotiate better trade deals if we leave.

Similarly, you have voted without being in possession of any relevant facts. You'll view me as an arrogant prick for saying so, that's more than fair considering we really don't have time (not in 4 months at least) to uncover the reality. But despite your vote, I urge you to look deeper into the EU and try to get a map of what it is, what it's agenda is and who runs it. It's no point me spouting off names and addresses, you wouldn't believe me anyway. But with a bit of digging you could come to the same conclusions. It's really not too onerous, I suppose. Took me about 20 years I would say.

[Niall_Quinn]

I voted this morning.

There are a lot of things wrong with the EU, but in my view, none of what was really wrong and what needed to be done about it was really touched upon because the arguments would be too complex and boring to articulate. So both sides just played to people's fears and prejudices.

There are many positives and negatives regardless of the decision that is finally made. While it is a binary choice, the arguments should not have been reduced to binary positions.

Bearing in mind the overall effect on me, my family and in particular my sons future, I've voted Remain.

But I don't think this is all over, whatever the result, there are many challenges ahead. If this campaign was anything to go by, I don't see those challenges being dealt with effectively.

Similarly, you allowed fear and an acceptance of authority to dictate to your own personal character and responsibility. Rather shitty of me to say so, but there can be no other explanation for it because the facts are very clear to those who choose to look. You are one of millions, just like the other side voted for no good reason. Good theatre, but nothing more. Not one person on this forum reached a conclusion that landed within 1,000 miles of the vicinity of what's at stake, and you are all good guys and pretty intelligent men. That makes me feel sad.

Maybe, Hump. He sort of touched on it.

[Niall_Quinn]

By the way, if I wasn't such a selfish bastard I'd have voted remain too. Just for the record. I'm as afraid as the rest of you. It's scary to be up against the corporate machine. They can mow you down without blinking, and funnily enough have threatened to do as much if you exercise liberty in a fashion that is incompatible with tyranny. Even my own kids say, shut up dad. But I won't. One person at least has to speak up for reality, or else it will cease to exist.

[Niall_Quinn]

Correction. Mr Invisible talked about vigilance. I recommend that to all of you. Close, close vigilance. In fact you have had the opportunity to be vigilant since 1975, the last time we had the chance to extricate ourselves from this, what shall we call it?, regression. Forgetfulness. Lack of respect for those who understood and placed their lives on the line. 1975 to now. What do you see? The evidence was there all along. How many millions dead and deprived for a project that was supposed to unify? At least do that will you? Be vigilant. Don't let this be history a week from now.

[Power n Glory]

Similarly, you have voted without being in possession of any relevant facts. You'll view me as an arrogant prick for saying so, that's more than fair considering we really don't have time (not in 4 months at least) to uncover the reality. But despite your vote, I urge you to look deeper into the EU and try to get a map of what it is, what it's agenda is and who runs it. It's no point me spouting off names and addresses, you wouldn't believe me anyway. But with a bit of digging you could come to the same conclusions. It's really not too onerous, I suppose. Took me about 20 years I would say.

Alright, Morpheus! You had my attention and a chance to put forward a better case but I wasn't convinced. You could have pointed me in the right direction if you felt I had the wrong facts but to be honest, everything you have said is wrapped up in broad concepts and idealism. People have rent and mortgages to pay. Kids to feed. I can't see how an exit will be beneficial to the economy and I also can't see how voting to leave halts the corporate machine. I haven't heard a single convincing argument or solution to the mess we're in. I'll continue to look further into the EU and dig deeper but you'll have to be more specific. So far I'm getting the David Ike/ Alex Jones vibes from you and that's not a good thing.

[LDG]

The good will win out dude. Chin up. New season starts soon.

[Niall_Quinn]

The good will win out dude. Chin up. New season starts soon.

Wenger Out!

[Niall_Quinn]

The good will win out dude. Chin up. New season starts soon.

Yes it will in the end. I have no doubt about it because I read my history. 99% of people voting tonight are good people when all is said and done.

[LDG]

Wenger Out!

No turning back. Be careful what you wish for. They might get Chancellor George to replace him.

Imagine that. We'd have Ray Parlour playing by himself on £2.50 a week.

[Niall_Quinn]

Alright, Morpheus! You had my attention and a chance to put forward a better case but I wasn't convinced. You could have pointed me in the right direction if you felt I had the wrong facts but to be honest, everything you have said is wrapped up in broad concepts and idealism. People have rent and mortgages to pay. Kids to feed. I can't see how an exit will be beneficial to the economy and I also can't see how voting to leave halts the corporate machine. I haven't heard a single convincing argument or solution to the mess we're in. I'll continue to look further into the EU and dig deeper but you'll have to be more specific. So far I'm getting the David Ike/ Alex Jones vibes from you and that's not a good thing.

I covered all of that, the practicalities I mean. I understand why you did what you did and I said as much. In fact there are 3 or 4 posts there where I said I'd do the same thing in some cases. So I'm not blaming you for anything. At all. All I'm asking, and it's not a huge amount to ask and would actually be beneficial for you personally, do some digging. What can it hurt?

[Niall_Quinn]

No turning back. Be careful what you wish for. They might get Chancellor George to replace him.

Imagine that. We'd have Ray Parlour playing by himself on £2.50 a week.

Doubt it. What school did Parlour go to?

[LDG]

Yes it will in the end. I have no doubt about it because I read my history. 99% of people voting tonight are good people when all is said and done.

Yep.

100s of millions of people against a few will bring the fucking lot down at some point. The thing about the greedy, is that they always take their eyes off the ball for a quick win. That's when they fuck themselves up the arse backwards.

Won't happen in our lifetime...but it will happen.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

The whole plan thing and the leadership thing is entirely irrelevant. That's the sad part about this campaign, the misdirection. Corporations decide national policy. Possibly Cromwell was the last to see a different arrangement. Even then, I'm not sure. I'm afraid you have made your decision on a raft of false pretences. I don't doubt your integrity but I can assure you, the people you voted for have no bearing on what that vote will amount to.
Do you mean remain, leave or both? :lol:

[Power n Glory]

I covered all of that, the practicalities I mean. I understand why you did what you did and I said as much. In fact there are 3 or 4 posts there where I said I'd do the same thing in some cases. So I'm not blaming you for anything. At all. All I'm asking, and it's not a huge amount to ask and would actually be beneficial for you personally, do some digging. What can it hurt?

Dig where?

I also don't think you covered how a vote to leave would halt the corporate machine when the the alternative is to hook up with America, Asia and whoever else we can whore ourselves out to for a better deal.

[LDG]

Doubt it. What school did Parlour go to?

School? Raymond Parlour?

School of fucking Ray Parlour, thats what.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I can't see how being in the EU affects my life adversely in any way. Voted to remain.

And Khaleesi. :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

I can't see how being in the EU affects my life adversely in any way. Voted to remain.

And Khaleesi. :bow:

Khaleesi has vowed to free the slaves. She's coming for you.

[Niall_Quinn]

School? Raymond Parlour?

School of fucking Ray Parlour, thats what.

Fucking coincidence. That's where I went.

[I am invisible]

Nuts to this, I'm going to bed! David Dumbledore and his BBC cronies can bore off - I'll find out what happened tomorrow...

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Khaleesi has vowed to free the slaves. She's coming for you.

Breaker of Chains.
Mother of Dragons.
Creator of Lists.

[Niall_Quinn]

Breaker of Chains.
Mother of Dragons.
Creator of Lists.

Despoiler of faggot diplomats.