Match reaction: PSG 1-1 Arsenal

[Ernesto]

Great game. Unfortunate not to get all 3 points in the end

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Wenger knows what he's doing.

:unsure:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Pure comedy. :haha:

[Kano]

Stuff of Champions.

Wenger's game plan works to perfection.

Whataguy :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

Team somehow overcame Wenger and escaped with a point. Mostly because Cavani is a bit shit in front of goal, but Ospina did his bit too.

As ever, we are here to make up the numbers.

[Munchies]

Could've fucking won that game easily with the right team selection

Point isn't bad though.

[Globalgunner]

Two games in a row where we comitted brazen daylight robbery. We are brilliant.

[Maestro]

In other news, Brendan Rogers just got raped

[Kano]

Hard luck on Bif.

Crowd were out for him from the moment he crossed the line. Had some ridiculous fouls called against him. Shithole Parisian crowd still crying about the Euro's.

Rooney tells a ref to fuck off, he gets a pat on the back. Bif shouts down the ref for a shit call and gets a yellow. Intimated by the crowd far too easily.

[Globalgunner]

Could've fucking won that game easily with the right manager
Point isn't bad though.
Small but significant Edit

Ospina and Cavani MOTM for Arsenal. Hard to choose.

[Chippy]

Could've fucking won that game easily with the right team selection

Point isn't bad though.

I know, Wenger is sort of fucking wind up merchant!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Top of the group. :bow:

Alphabetical order. :bow:

PSG bottom. :haha:

Money well spent.

[pakgunner]

Ospina motm, otherwise it would've been much worse. Wenger starting 11 baffles me not exactly the strongest available. Wenger's inept qualities in tactics nearly gave us another opening day loss, it's really worrying to see our team struggle to create half decent chances and atm I'm more concerned about our attack than defense. Ps the Ox should never start a big match.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Absolute travesty that we weren't beaten 4-1

Shows why I don't rate PSG or Cavani, the ease with which he got past our centre backs and yet still couldn't finish

The useless commentary team raving about Ospina, I can't think of one save he made which he shouldn't have been able to make, his ball distribution is still shocking and it's only because PSG look gubbins at attacking set pieces that he wasn't exposed for the second rate fraud that he is. Cavani made Ospina look good, had that been Lewandowski....no such deception.

Monreal, it's all over for him.....totally had on toast by Serge Aurier

Coquelin offered no protection to us, and actually looked better going forward than he did at the back, that's not praising him by the way that's just pointing out a) how bad he was at his job and b) how blunt we were in attack for most of the evening.

It's been put to bed now, Sanchez cannot play upfront he lacks the positional discipline, that's not a criticism of him it's just not his game, he looked a different and better player when he played wide left and he finished superbly

Iwobi still looks raw, but actually one of the players who got better as the game went on

Bellerin one of the only bright sparks in the whole team, Ozil looked disinterested and Cazorla was just pressed out of the game.

This was a horrendous performance, Wengers team selection should have seen his arse handed to him....fortunately for him and unfortunately for us we played a side that won't win the champions league because if it's at all possible are less clinical than us.

[Gooner23]

:lol:
In other news, Brendan Rogers just got raped

He'll probably try and claim it's a great result

[Marc Overmars]

A shitty performance that illustrated why our European credentials have been non-existent for many years now.

Pubbed ourselves a point thanks to a mixture of dodgy finishing from Cavani and some decent stops from Ospina. In the context of the group it's a pretty useful point and I would have taken it before kick off.

On we go.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Utter shit apart from the two episodes of Parks and Recreation.

[Power n Glory]

Shit performance but we were lucky not to lose and take a hammering. PSG are in shit form remember.

Time to call time on Ox. He can start games playing like that. Ospina had dodgy moments but saved our bacon. Way too soon to start Iwobi in major games. Ozil's gone back to his old shit self. One good half last season doesn't give him a free ride. We've Nasri and Ramsey boss things for half a season and go right back to shitness so no surprises there. Cazorla blows hot and cold too much. Good one game and shit the next. Elneny and Xhaka really should be getting games.

And Giroud....well done. :lol: Hold a bench! Idiot.

[Niall_Quinn]

Utter shit apart from the two episodes of Parks and Recreation.

Going to give that another go. During our next CL match. See if I can get into it this time.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A shitty performance that illustrated why our European credentials have been non-existent for many years now.

Pubbed ourselves a point thanks to a mixture of dodgy finishing from Cavani and some decent stops from Ospina. In the context of the group it's a pretty useful point and I would have taken it before kick off.

On we go.

Definitely would have taken this result before kick off, however it's kind of been sullied by how abjectly we played

I think this is up there with the defeats to United at old Trafford in February and the defeat to Swansea as one of the worst performances in 2016.

Monreal, Coquelin, Oxlade Chamberlain should all be ashamed of themselves

[Niall_Quinn]

I said I'd settle for being entertained, so I guess watching Cavani try to score a goal fulfilled my requirement. And watching Wenger try to pick a team iced it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Shit performance but we were lucky not to lose and take a hammering. PSG are in shit form remember.

Time to call time on Ox. He can start games playing like that. Ospina had dodgy moments but saved our bacon. Way too soon to start Iwobi in major games. Ozil's gone back to his old shit self. One good half last season doesn't give him a free ride. We've Nasri and Ramsey boss things for half a season and go right back to shitness so no surprises there. Cazorla blows hot and cold too much. Good one game and shit the next. Elneny and Xhaka really should be getting games.

And Giroud....well done. :lol: Hold a bench! Idiot.

After tonight I would drop Ox, the worst thing about him was that I think he was actually putting in a lot of effort, he just seems to have been totally overcome by Wengeritis.

Hopefully (and I can't believe I'm saying this) Walcott isn't out for too long.

Don't feel comfortable playing Iwobi, think as an attacking player he's got excellent potential but seeing as a) as a wide player he comes inside too often and b) he can't be relied upon to bale out Monreal who was as responsible as Mustafi for our first goal and was abject all evening....I don't think he can be trusted.

[Kano]

Ox needs a new start somewhere else. Not going to happen for him here.

Maybe he might wake up and realise his potential, instead of doing the same shit game after game.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ox needs a new start somewhere else. Not going to happen for him here.

Maybe he might wake up and realise his potential, instead of doing the same shit game after game.

At the moment we need him, simply because we don't have many natural wide players....so we don't even have the option of sending him out on loan somewhere.

I think injury and not being able to consistently get a run in the side has brought this. It annoys me, unlike Walcott Ox is an incredibly talented player he has great technical ability....which makes the runny watery poo he has produced of late all the more galling.

And if anyone suggests playing Ramsey on the right slowing us down even further in the words of Liam Neeson "I will find you and I will kill you".

It's a bit like the horrible you don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps, we don't have to have Ramsey in the team to be shit, slow and totally blunt, but it helps.

[Kano]

Weak referee scared of the crowd

https://streamable.com/9maq

[Gooner23]

At the moment we need him, simply because we don't have many natural wide players....so we don't even have the option of sending him out on loan somewhere.

I think injury and not being able to consistently get a run in the side has brought this. It annoys me, unlike Walcott Ox is an incredibly talented player he has great technical ability....which makes the runny watery poo he has produced of late all the more galling.

And if anyone suggests playing Ramsey on the right slowing us down even further in the words of Liam Neeson "I will find you and I will kill you".

It's a bit like the horrible you don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps, we don't have to have Ramsey in the team to be shit, slow and totally blunt, but it helps.

It's probably the one area of the squad were I think we're lacking in terms of personnel. There really is going to be huge pressure on Iwobi this season.

[Kano]

At the moment we need him, simply because we don't have many natural wide players....so we don't even have the option of sending him out on loan somewhere.

I think injury and not being able to consistently get a run in the side has brought this. It annoys me, unlike Walcott Ox is an incredibly talented player he has great technical ability....which makes the runny watery poo he has produced of late all the more galling.

And if anyone suggests playing Ramsey on the right slowing us down even further in the words of Liam Neeson "I will find you and I will kill you".

It's a bit like the horrible you don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps, we don't have to have Ramsey in the team to be shit, slow and totally blunt, but it helps.

You don't need 'natural' wide players, few of those exist in the modern set-up because the movement of most teams have different requirements now. It's about good timing of runs and being able to put a ball behind or across the defence.

Iwobi, Alexis should be in front of him. He's wasted his chances every season for as long as we can remember. He makes the same mistakes again and again and has no one else to blame for that. Ox has the 'potential' to be good but he's nothing more than a wish, a thin hope that hasn't developed. Time to get rid. Nothing is going to change here. Id prefer to see The Jeff given a go there now. The kid's a waste of space.

Ramsey would do a far better job down the right. We don't play on the break. Teams sit deep so this isn't about pace. That is another reason why Ox struggles. Ramsey played fantastically well in that position through out 2015. He can't play in the middle two, or as a number ten and out wide he covers Bellerin, gets up to the other end, makes great runs (needs to calm his finishing) and adds an extra number to the midfield when needed.

[Alpha]

I knew our best result would be a draw tonight. I'm not surprised . But the line-up and the performances were stunning and disappointing.

[Marc Overmars]

I hope Alexis is moved back to left where he has been most effective for us. This experiment with him up front needs to end.

Give Perez a chance to get up to speed instead.

[Penguin]

Weak referee scared of the crowd

https://streamable.com/9maq
Giroud does nothing wrong... he's even holding his arms up and trying to stay out of it. The PSG number 5 pushes him twice and nothing happens to him? :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Giroud does nothing wrong... he's even holding his arms up and trying to stay out of it. The PSG number 5 pushes him twice and nothing happens to him? :lol:

Bif was stupid enough to talk himself into the book but yeah that's a ridiculous red card. Awful from the ref.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You don't need 'natural' wide players, few of those exist in the modern set-up because the movement of most teams have different requirements now. It's about good timing of runs and being able to put a ball behind or across the defence.

Iwobi, Alexis should be in front of him. He's wasted his chances every season for as long as we can remember. He makes the same mistakes again and again and has no one else to blame for that. Ox has the 'potential' to be good but he's nothing more than a wish, a thin hope that hasn't developed. Time to get rid. Nothing is going to change here. Id prefer to see The Jeff given a go there now. The kid's a waste of space.

Ramsey would do a far better job down the right. We don't play on the break. Teams sit deep so this isn't about pace. That is another reason why Ox struggles. Ramsey played fantastically well in that position through out 2015. He can't play in the middle two, or as a number ten and out wide he covers Bellerin, gets up to the other end, makes great runs (needs to calm his finishing) and adds an extra number to the midfield when needed.

You were warned about that, what happens next is on you

[Kano]

Giroud does nothing wrong... he's even holding his arms up and trying to stay out of it. The PSG number 5 pushes him twice and nothing happens to him? :lol:

The worst thing he done was a shoulder block of their defender - he recieved a straight red, not even a second yellow.

Crowd had full control over the ref when it came to Bif. They were baying for blood and the ref duly obliged.

[Penguin]

I hope Alexis is moved back to left where he has been most effective for us. This experiment with him up front needs to end.

Give Perez a chance to get up to speed instead.

I think Alexis could actually do well up front if the rest of the team weren't spastics. It's the tactics. Nobody getting closer to him to support him, no one making runs beyond him, no one making use of the wings. They were hitting long balls to him and standing off him as if it was Giroud up front.

I think we'll have the same problem even if Perez is up front. The same thing happened against Southampton a few days ago. It's because Wenger doesn't give them clear instructions and leaves it to the players to all work it out themselves.

[Power n Glory]

Giroud does nothing wrong... he's even holding his arms up and trying to stay out of it. The PSG number 5 pushes him twice and nothing happens to him? :lol:

Giroud kicked him and leaned in for the headbutt. It's sneaky but the ref caught him. Correct decision. Deserved sending off.

[Marc Overmars]

I think Alexis could actually do well up front if the rest of the team weren't spastics. It's the tactics. Nobody getting closer to him to support him, no one making runs beyond him, no one making use of the wings. They were hitting long balls to him and standing off him as if it was Giroud up front.

I think we'll have the same problem even if Perez is up front. The same thing happened against Southampton a few days ago. It's because Wenger doesn't give them clear instructions and leaves it to the players to all work it out themselves.

While I agree the set up around him is poor, he hunts down the ball at any given opportunity and that often means running back into midfield doing their jobs for them. It's just the kind of player he is, he's too far gone to be coached. He's our best attacker and we shouldn't be doing anything to jeopardise his effectiveness.

I say give Perez a go because by all accounts he's more of a natural striker and might be able to work his way into scoring positions with patience and intelligence.

[Thierrymon]

Wenger clearly has no idea of what his ideal line up should be. Every game so far has felt like an experiment.

[Penguin]

Giroud kicked him and leaned in for the headbutt. It's sneaky but the ref caught him. Correct decision. Deserved sending off.

He was pushed into Veratti by Marquinhos though... unless you mean before that video clip?

[Kano]

He was pushed into Veratti by Marquinhos though... unless you mean before that video clip?

Nah before that Giroud blocks Veratti with his shoulder and ends up on the floor, the ref is running up field with his back to play. Veratti is also sent off for no reason. The ref didn't have f clue what he was doing. He heard the crowd going nuts again, saw a quick view of a couple of players getting off the floor and sent them both off. Clueless.

[Niall_Quinn]

He was pushed into Veratti by Marquinhos though... unless you mean before that video clip?

Ref actually tried to keep Bif on the pitch, but Bif made it impossible. Within minutes of coming on he was screaming and gesturing at the ref. Most Euro refs get the book out. This one warned him. Then repeat, screaming, shouting, waving. Booked. Then he spent the rest of the time playing sneaky fouls with the defence, he fouled them, they fouled him. Bif moaned to the ref every time. Eventually he moaned his way into the second yellow, which wasn't given for the foul but for the follow-up abuse by the look of it.

It was an absolutely dreadful performance from Bif. Either he had the hump at not being selected or else he let the crowd get to him.

Dead right on Alexis and any other striker in this set-up. They have zero chance and would be completely isolated if they didn't come back to get them ball themselves. We almost don't need a striker the way Wenger has things set up.

[Power n Glory]

While I agree the set up around him is poor, he hunts down the ball at any given opportunity and that often means running back into midfield doing their jobs for them. It's just the kind of player he is, he's too far gone to be coached. He's our best attacker and we shouldn't be doing anything to jeopardise his effectiveness.

I say give Perez a go because by all accounts he's more of a natural striker and might be able to work his way into scoring positions with patience and intelligence.

Problem is, Perez isn't a natural striker either. He looked just as lost up front when he played for us. He's a winger and only spent one season up front out of his entire career. I'd definitely give Perez a run up front over Sanchez but I worry we'll see similar performances unless we change the supporting players. We can't have games where we're struggling to get the ball forward otherwise we'll keep seeing the striker being drawn further back from their goal, ball hunting and playing deep. Ozil also needs to pull his weight also. It's bad enough playing inexperienced wide players or Walcott, players who can't really do the whole link up play stuff, but Ozil is the key to releasing all of them and he's totally off.

I'm tempted to see Giroud being played with Sanchez or Perez behind him. It's something different and we could do with someone with explosive energy working around the box and closer to Giroud.

[Özim]

A car crash start to the season somehow looks reasonable thanks to some fortune, Wenger is a whole lot luckier than Rogers that's for sure, should have lost comfortably today and yet ended up with a draw, only helps to mask the glaring defficiencies in his management.

When's the last time we actually put in a decent performance? Who could have predicted not signing an out and out striker would be a problem this season?

[Power n Glory]

He was pushed into Veratti by Marquinhos though... unless you mean before that video clip?

Yeah, you didn't see it. Giroud stamped on the guys ankle. It nearly snapped. Then headbutted the guy. There was blood everywhere. This was all off camera. He's a dirty player. :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, you didn't see it. Giroud stamped on the guys ankle. It nearly snapped. Then headbutted the guy. There was blood everywhere. This was all off camera. He's a dirty player. :lol:

Eh? I didn't see that.

[Marc Overmars]

Problem is, Perez isn't a natural striker either. He looked just as lost up front when he played for us. He's a winger and only spent one season up front out of his entire career. I'd definitely give Perez a run up front over Sanchez but I worry we'll see similar performances unless we change the supporting players. We can't have games where we're struggling to get the ball forward otherwise we'll keep seeing the striker being drawn further back from their goal, ball hunting and playing deep. Ozil also needs to pull his weight also. It's bad enough playing inexperienced wide players or Walcott, players who can't really do the whole link up play stuff, but Ozil is the key to releasing all of them and he's totally off.

I'm tempted to see Giroud being played with Sanchez or Perez behind him. It's something different and we could do with someone with explosive energy working around the box and closer to Giroud.

To be honest, I expect Giroud to find his way back into the line up soon enough and we'll continue on down that tried and failed path. I think we're set up to cater for a striker like Giroud and that's why a more mobile striker will struggle unless we find a different way of playing.

[Alpha]

I think Alexis could actually do well up front if the rest of the team weren't spastics. It's the tactics. Nobody getting closer to him to support him, no one making runs beyond him, no one making use of the wings. They were hitting long balls to him and standing off him as if it was Giroud up front.

I think we'll have the same problem even if Perez is up front. The same thing happened against Southampton a few days ago. It's because Wenger doesn't give them clear instructions and leaves it to the players to all work it out themselves.

How can you be sure Wenger does not give them clear instructions ? Are you always there when he gives them instructions or the players told you so ?

[Niall_Quinn]

How can you be sure Wenger does not give them clear instructions ? Are you always there when he gives them instructions or the players told you so ?

Plenty of players have spoken up about Wenger's lack of input.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Player Ratings

Ospina - 7 - Still looks every sense a liability, clearance in the second half put PSG in but did what he needed to do when Cavani or Aurier carved us open

Monreal - 4 - Was made to look every inch the slow, second rate full back he is by Di Maria and Aurier

Bellerin - 7 - Made some vital interceptions at times, PSG looked far less threatening on their left hand side because of him

Koscielny - 5 - Poor night for him, outmuscled too easily by Cavani and Matuidi

Mustafi - 6 - Poor marking of Cavani led to their opening goal but became more solid as the game went on and was agressive from attacking set pieces

Coquelin - 5 - Totally inept, allowed himself to be bossed by Matuidi and Verrati. The only reason he gets a 5 is because he seemed to be the only midfielder prepared to get forward or run with the ball.

Cazorla - 5 - Pressed out of the game by Krychowiak, Rabiot, Veratti etc lots of sideways passing

Ozil - 5 - Largely peripheral to proceedings, never did enough either good or bad to influence the game

Ox - 4 - Totally pathetic, the only reason not a lot lower was because it wasn't due to lack of effort on his part, he was prepared to put himself about. Just all his energy went in the wrong places

Iwobi - 6 - Got better in an attacking sense as game went on, looked out of his depth first half and left the terrible Monreal badly exposed on our left.

Sanchez - 7 - Totally anonymous until Giroud came on where he was able to drop deeper and wider for us and it actually be effective.


Subs

Giroud - 6 - Totally ineffective in any attacking sense but put himself about physically and was actually one of the few players prepared to do so for us last night

Xhaka - 7 - The point at which we started to actually look competent in posession

Elneny - 6 - Offered decent protection to the back four

[pakgunner]

At the moment we need him, simply because we don't have many natural wide players....so we don't even have the option of sending him out on loan somewhere.

I think injury and not being able to consistently get a run in the side has brought this. It annoys me, unlike Walcott Ox is an incredibly talented player he has great technical ability....which makes the runny watery poo he has produced of late all the more galling.

And if anyone suggests playing Ramsey on the right slowing us down even further in the words of Liam Neeson "I will find you and I will kill you".

It's a bit like the horrible you don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps, we don't have to have Ramsey in the team to be shit, slow and totally blunt, but it helps.

I'm beginning to think that a Draxler style player is what we desperately need, footballi IQ is way above The Ox and Walcott and technically better. I hope we go in for him in the next transfer window. During our most successful times our wide players had the brains and ability atm we are so deprived of that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm beginning to think that a Draxler style player is what we desperately need, footballi IQ is way above The Ox and Walcott and technically better. I hope we go in for him in the next transfer window. During our most successful times our wide players had the brains and ability atm we are so deprived of that.

If we were going to sign Draxler we'd have done it by now

[alexander]

That starting 11 was just wrong. I saw players on the bench that were better than the starting players. Didnt we buy Xhaka to add bite, steel and passing ability to the midfield? why is he not starting? Why are we flogging the Sanchez up-front thing? its not his position, get him back out wide where he has been brilliant for his whole time with us. Ox looks done, I had high hopes for him, he came in years back and looked ahead of where theo was at the time, but now he looks way way below his best. Iwobi looks good, but should he really be starting last night?

It just feels like an experiment all the time, Im never confident of a win, I feel any game, against any team, could go either way. Its so hit and miss. Its so frustrating.

[selassie]

We were so bad last night, a mess. I've not seen us play well this season, admittedly I've only seen a few games but we look so disjointed, 11 strangers on the pitch.

Wenger needs to fix this mess ASAP otherwise we could be out of all competitions by Christmas, we are that bad at the moment.

Everything was wrong last night, team selection, shape, it took us around 50 minutes to get going and even when we did our shape was a mess, we had players all over the place in the 2nd half when we were chasing the game, it was absolutely horrible watching us get torn to shreds on the counter. We just look so chaotic.

1-1 is a good result, the performance was bad though, we won't get away with that again.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger needs to get the fuck out by Christmas, we are that bad at the moment.

:gp:

[GP]

Great decision by the manager to pick Ospina.

[selassie]

:gp:

ha!

Last night also highlighted how far behind we are tactically in Europe, we literally don't have a system or any structure whatsoever, 10 headless chickens and a shot stopper.

[Niall_Quinn]

Great decision by the manager to pick Ospina.

In fact a dreadful decision, especially in light of how badly the same decision affected us last season. If the CL is supposed to be the biggest challenge a top team faces then we should be starting with our best possible 11, Cech being one of the starters and an automatic choice. Of course Wenger likes to play his happy families game, so it was Ospina's special day out and the football logic be damned.Fortunately, on this occasion, the idiocy of the manager was not punished. No doubt he will persist until a negative outcome is obtained.

[Marc Overmars]

Ospina's nose must have been put out of joint when we signed Cech, so it's clear Wenger promised him CL games. He would have persisted with him last season as well if he wasn't under huge pressure to drop him after he threw that goal in against Olympiakos.

He had a good game last night but then Almunia had matches like that too, it didn't change the fact he was bang average.

[Niall_Quinn]

ha!

Last night also highlighted how far behind we are tactically in Europe, we literally don't have a system or any structure whatsoever, 10 headless chickens and a shot stopper.

It also showed how hyped so many of the players are. That was supposed to be a top stage for Euro talent. Watching Cavani fluff chance after chance and our own lot seemingly incapable of passing a ball was a good demonstration of what the game has become. A money racket. Martin Samuel has taken the day off as ambassador for Manchester and outlines the new CL stitch up in the Mail this morning. Second rate teams at top rate prices locking in their places at the grubby pig trough behind the hype. If there's some higher being directing the fate on mankind then please, let Leicester win it this year. I think I'd laugh for a month solid.

[Goonermerree]

Wenger always plays a weakened team, then we are in a scrap to qualify, and get second spot and get booted out at the first knock-out stage.

[Goonermerree]

It also showed how hyped so many of the players are. That was supposed to be a top stage for Euro talent. Watching Cavani fluff chance after chance and our own lot seemingly incapable of passing a ball was a good demonstration of what the game has become. A money racket. Martin Samuel has taken the day off as ambassador for Manchester and outlines the new CL stitch up in the Mail this morning. Second rate teams at top rate prices locking in their places at the grubby pig trough behind the hype. If there's some higher being directing the fate on mankind then please, let Leicester win it this year. I think I'd laugh for a month solid.

Excessive money has ruined the game. Slightly better than average players are on mega bucks. Agents hyping everything up so that they can cream more off the top for themselves. With each passing season I am getting more and more disillusioned with football.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Tbf Ospina was pretty good in the games he covered for us during Cech's injury at the tail end of last year. He probably isn't as bad as some make out or as that embarrassing game last season against Olympiakos would lead you to believe. There's no doubt he bailed us out last night and thanks to him and wayward finishing from Cavani we somehow managed to scrape a draw in a match we really ought to have been pummelled in. And let's be honest here as well, whilst Cech has been generally competent for us, he's not been spectacular. There aren't that many better number two GK's out there and I hope we do keep him at the club.

I was more pissed off with the other stuff, in particular Xhaka not starting especially after not featuring against Southampton. You could immediately see the impact he made when he came on last night; more control and better passing in midfield. A friend of mine speculated that it was because he's recently made some comments to the Swiss press about wanting to start every game and this is just Wenger's way of wanting to demonstrate to him that he's the alpha dog and he makes the decisions ....... completely pathetic if it's true.

[selassie]

It also showed how hyped so many of the players are. That was supposed to be a top stage for Euro talent. Watching Cavani fluff chance after chance and our own lot seemingly incapable of passing a ball was a good demonstration of what the game has become. A money racket. Martin Samuel has taken the day off as ambassador for Manchester and outlines the new CL stitch up in the Mail this morning. Second rate teams at top rate prices locking in their places at the grubby pig trough behind the hype. If there's some higher being directing the fate on mankind then please, let Leicester win it this year. I think I'd laugh for a month solid.

:lol:

Too true, about Cavani, I have always felt he was massively overrated, admittedly he looked great at Napoli but since he's moved on from Seria A he's looked a lost cause. His goal was good last night but he misses so many chances, last night wasn't a first for him either.

I found Chris Waddle's commentary on BT Sport 2 pretty amusing, he said we as in Arsenal are one of the best teams in CL at passing :haha:

Has he not watched CL for a while? There are a dozen teams better than us at passing in CL IMO.

[Niall_Quinn]

Tbf Ospina was pretty good in the games he covered for us during Cech's injury at the tail end of last year. He probably isn't as bad as some make out or as that embarrassing game last season against Olympiakos would lead you to believe. There's no doubt he bailed us out last night and thanks to him and wayward finishing from Cavani we somehow managed to scrape a draw in a match we really ought to have been pummelled in. And let's be honest here as well, whilst Cech has been generally competent for us, he's not been spectacular. There aren't that many better number two GK's out there and I hope we do keep him at the club.

I was more pissed off with the other stuff, in particular Xhaka not starting especially after not featuring against Southampton. You could immediately see the impact he made when he came on last night; more control and better passing in midfield. A friend of mine speculated that it was because he's recently made some comments to the Swiss press about wanting to start every game and this is just Wenger's way of wanting to demonstrate to him that he's the alpha dog and he makes the decisions ....... completely pathetic if it's true.

More likely a GPS vest reading that fell below a baseline statistical analysis. In 34.7283647 hours Xhaka will be fully recharged and ready to run 10.232km before the next statistical rotation.

[Goonermerree]

I wonder if Xhaka has one of those clauses where we have to pay more money the more he plays, like we have to with Ox.

[topgun]

With each passing season I am getting more and more disillusioned with football

I reached that point last season,its Wengerball that's turned me off though,I just can't be bothered as long as he is there.Fingers crossed this is his last season. How a team with so much so called talent can play so badly is a complete mystery.

[Letters]

With each passing season I am getting more and more disillusioned with football

I reached that point last season,its Wengerball that's turned me off though,I just can't be bothered as long as he is there.Fingers crossed this is his last season. How a team with so much so called talent can play so badly is a complete mystery.

I don't think football in general is that much good these days. The Euros was a case in point, very few stand out games.

[Goonermerree]

I don't think football in general is that much good these days. The Euros was a case in point, very few stand out games.

Give young people a lot of money early on and there is no need to improve themselves, they've already made it.

[Penguin]

How can you be sure Wenger does not give them clear instructions ? Are you always there when he gives them instructions or the players told you so ?

If they were given instructions why weren't they following them? Our former players have always said that Wenger gives the players the freedom to express themselves on the pitch. Wenger said it himself that he wants the players to be able to work out problems on the pitch themselves. Maybe some players like Bergkamp and Henry thrived on that freedom but most of the current lot clearly need someone to tell them EXACTLY what they're doing wrong so they stop doing it.

[Penguin]

Yeah, you didn't see it. Giroud stamped on the guys ankle. It nearly snapped. Then headbutted the guy. There was blood everywhere. This was all off camera. He's a dirty player. :lol:
If it was off camera how do you know it happened? :blink:

Fair enough if that is what happened. Veratti probably deserved it though ;)

[Alpha]

If they were given instructions why weren't they following them? Our former players have always said that Wenger gives the players the freedom to express themselves on the pitch. Wenger said it himself that he wants the players to be able to work out problems on the pitch themselves. Maybe some players like Bergkamp and Henry thrived on that freedom but most of the current lot clearly need someone to tell them EXACTLY what they're doing wrong so they stop doing it.

To my knowledge, I think Football is just any other jobs . The only difference is it is very popular and anyone who does not even play it can make a comment .

in any job you are given instructions by the Hierarchy on how to do it and they will ask you to use your own initiative in certain circumstances and be able to work as a team.

I don't think in football players are robots and have to follow every single instruction to the letter even when it is not relevant.

What I believe is every manager gives instructions to his players but they can fail to apply them due to their own " limited" ability or the opponents have prevented them to do so .

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol:

Too true, about Cavani, I have always felt he was massively overrated, admittedly he looked great at Napoli but since he's moved on from Seria A he's looked a lost cause. His goal was good last night but he misses so many chances, last night wasn't a first for him either.

I found Chris Waddle's commentary on BT Sport 2 pretty amusing, he said we as in Arsenal are one of the best teams in CL at passing :haha:

Has he not watched CL for a while? There are a dozen teams better than us at passing in CL IMO.

The only thing i'd say is that how many times would a player like Giroud worked himself into positions that Cavani made for himself, his finishing was gubbens for sure but he shrugged off koscielny with worrying ease at times.

[Letters]

Give young people a lot of money early on and there is no need to improve themselves, they've already made it.

:good:

Exactly.

[GP]

Eh? I didn't see that.

No one did because it didn't happen.

[Kano]

:good:

Exactly.

I think that's way too simplistic.

For the majority of footballers, it is a game they love playing. They are no different from a lot of men who grew up from boys thinking too much about it, spent too much time talking about and now they get to play it and get paid amazing money too. The love for the game comes from just enjoying it, not because we dream of wanting to get paid from it.

Of course, money ruins some kids ambitions and drive to want to succeed. But there are so many trying to get through that they will be replaced by hungrier people all the time. The real coasters over the years have soon been found out and dumped. Look at Bendtner or Frimpong as two easy examples.

The game is played at a ridiculous pace in the PL now and with the increase in counter-attacking football, defences sitting back, congested midfields and high tempo closing down, the game has become increasingly messy across the entire league. Arsenal look like a team with little coherence and have down for a while but we are far from alone in that. The standard of the league has dropped considerably not because players don't care, don't want to win or play well but because the way everyone sets up leans towards kick and rush football, with little or no time for technical ability to take prominice.

Can we relate to this players as we once did? Definitely not because of their wages and that has caused a rift between the two. The flip side is of course, that fans can digest much more info and interact with more players outside of the pitch far more than they ever could. I'm pretty sure that players of decades gone by would have not had a second thought at taking the money on offer today. I don't think the old school player was any better in that regard, rather that the opportunity just wasn't there for them to earn like this.

[Penguin]

To my knowledge, I think Football is just any other jobs . The only difference is it is very popular and anyone who does not even play it can make a comment .

in any job you are given instructions by the Hierarchy on how to do it and they will ask you to use your own initiative in certain circumstances and be able to work as a team.

I don't think in football players are robots and have to follow every single instruction to the letter even when it is not relevant.

What I believe is every manager gives instructions to his players but they can fail to apply them due to their own " limited" ability or the opponents have prevented them to do so .

I agree to an extent but when a manager builds 4 or 5 different teams over a decade, and every team makes the same mistakes and has the same weaknesses there's something wrong.

Either A) all of the players we've signed are idiots who can't follow the manager's instructions, B) The manager isn't giving them clear instructions and letting them 'work it out themselves', or C) the manager is giving them the wrong instructions.

Probably it's a mix of all three.

[selassie]

The only thing i'd say is that how many times would a player like Giroud worked himself into positions that Cavani made for himself, his finishing was gubbens for sure but he shrugged off koscielny with worrying ease at times.

Agreed, both Kos and Mustafi were poor last night, like you said they were getting shrugged off the ball easily and pulled all over the place, Cavani's opener was preventable, the marking/positioning from them both was absolutely atrocious.

[Alpha]

I agree to an extent but when a manager builds 4 or 5 different teams over a decade, and every team makes the same mistakes and has the same weaknesses there's something wrong.

Either A) all of the players we've signed are idiots who can't follow the manager's instructions, B) The manager isn't giving them clear instructions and letting them 'work it out themselves', or C) the manager is giving them the wrong instructions.

Probably it's a mix of all three.

I can see where you are coming from even though I do not agree with any of your 3 points raised above .

A) Are all players we 've signed during Wenger era idiots ? Not at all but some were more talented and intelligents than others .
B) is the manager not giving clear instructions to the players ? No really . Otherwise , we wouldn't be where we are now . We are not the best but not the worst either . Even Tottenham fans would love to be in our position .
C) is Wenger giving them wrong instructions ? I don't agree at all . Wenger is a world class manager underestimated by his own fans .


But my personal view is Wenger tends to sign the same kind of players : physically small , technically gifted but mentally weak . Many of them can not resist any pressure . That has been the downside of his management.
Recently , he has shown same change by putting some steel in his ingredients with the emergence of Coquelin and the introduction of Elneny and Xhaka .
Cech having enough experience and guile to ease off some pressure, let's hope we will see different results in the coming years .
'

[selassie]

To my knowledge, I think Football is just any other jobs . The only difference is it is very popular and anyone who does not even play it can make a comment .

in any job you are given instructions by the Hierarchy on how to do it and they will ask you to use your own initiative in certain circumstances and be able to work as a team.

I don't think in football players are robots and have to follow every single instruction to the letter even when it is not relevant.

What I believe is every manager gives instructions to his players but they can fail to apply them due to their own " limited" ability or the opponents have prevented them to do so .

Fair point, but in Football you play games against opponents who each have their own strengths and weaknesses. As a manager it is their job to COACH and prepare the team to face the opponent and to deploy the required tactics/instructions for each game to nullify the opponents strength and take advantage of their weakness. That is Wenger's job, he doesn't necessarily need to Micro manage the players but he needs to be seen to be showing some kind of tactical nous and to be installing tactical discipline into the team as a whole.

If he is giving the players instruction and they are not following it then they should be dropped.

It wouldn't be so bad if these kind of performances from the team and certain members in it were one offs but we regularly see what appear to be teams that go out there with no tactics or sense of structure. It's baffling.

[Özim]

Wenger all smug in his interview saying our CL experience got us the result, no pal luck got us the result, we didn't deserve it and were lucky their forwards had an off day.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wenger all smug in his interview saying our CL experience got us the result, no pal luck got us the result, we didn't deserve it and were lucky their forwards had an off day.

It wasn't an off day, it's the reason why they haven't got beyond the quarter finals of the ucl

[Özim]

I can see where you are coming from even though I do not agree with any of your 3 points raised above .

A) Are all players we 've signed during Wenger era idiots ? Not at all but some were more talented and intelligents than others .
B) is the manager not giving clear instructions to the players ? No really . Otherwise , we wouldn't be where we are now . We are not the best but not the worst either . Even Tottenham fans would love to be in our position .
C) is Wenger giving them wrong instructions ? I don't agree at all . Wenger is a world class manager underestimated by his own fans .


But my personal view is Wenger tends to sign the same kind of players : physically small , technically gifted but mentally weak . Many of them can not resist any pressure . That has been the downside of his management.
Recently , he has shown same change by putting some steel in his ingredients with the emergence of Coquelin and the introduction of Elneny and Xhaka .
Cech having enough experience and guile to ease off some pressure, let's hope we will see different results in the coming years .
'

He's had 12 years and in all that time the same issues occur, in fact if anything we've got worse, whatever it is it's been here the last 12 years, the only thing that has is a certain Monsieur Wenger so the buck stops with him, if players don't perform you drop them ad if need be sell them off or replace them, if you don't you're the problem.

[Özim]

It wasn't an off day, it's the reason why they haven't got beyond the quarter finals of the ucl

I've seen them play much better than that, but in essence I agree, but for us it was another awful display that the manager hails as a result gained by CL experience, it wasn't we were all over the shop and deserved to lose by quite a few.

If I was PSG I'd be gutted, much the better side, better chances and yet end up with a draw, we stole that point.

Don't forget though we haven't got past the last 16 in years ourselves, these performances are the reason for that.