Match Reaction vs Swansea (home).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Beat our bogey team. Title is on its way. :bow:

[Kano]

Six on the bounce.

Wenger :bow:

[Letters]

Walcott at the end :doh:

Made it harder work than we should have but overall a good win. Think that's 9 wins out of 10 in all competitions, not too bad.

[The Dismantler]

Wenger has got to go!!!.... :threaten:

[Niall_Quinn]

WENGER OUT!

Just fuck off you boring, negative twat!

[Maestro]

Fam that was close blood, ya get me cuz!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I agree. Hate winning.

[Globalgunner]

Almost top:jumpnana:
Anyone who wants to know what Walnutt is all about just has to watch this game
Utterly, Utterly average player

[Niall_Quinn]

Almost top:jumpnana:
Anyone who wants to know what Walnutt is all about just has to watch this game
Utterly, Utterly average player

It's all random when he's in front of goal, which is why he'll never be a striker. But when he's used in a high tempo game where we go mobile instead of playing that static, looking around picking noses shit then he's a weapon. He's been unfortunate to have chosen such an incompetent man to guide his career. A half decent manager would have quickly identified his limited but still useful attributes and used them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Didn't watch the game

Xhaka sending off - harsh or fair?

[Power n Glory]

3 points. Walcott really should have put the game to bed in the end but we should have never been in that sort of position in the first place. Scored 2 easy goals and but a lapse in concentration from Xhaka let them back in. An on and off game for Alexis and slow start for Ozil but that was a heck of a 3rd goal. Great pass and great finish.

We somehow fuck up again and Xhaka decides to go full retard. It was cynical and wasn't surprised the ref reached for his back pocket. Wenger needs to have a word with him. He had a poor game.

I thought the script was written and we'd choke but we didn't. Good subs from Wenger. They worked for once. Some good play by Ox and Theo staying on for 90 minutes for a change makes sense. He just needs to finish the chances off.

[Goonermerree]

Thank goodness Swansea are rubbish! Middlesboro next . We should win that one too...

[Kano]

Almost top:jumpnana:
Anyone who wants to know what Walnutt is all about just has to watch this game
Utterly, Utterly average player

Innit. He has no business putting us in a position to win the game. None at all.

[Power n Glory]

Didn't watch the game

Xhaka sending off - harsh or fair?

A few people here will say it's harsh but it was cynical and from behind. It wasn't an attempt to play the ball. If the roles were reversed, I'd be pissed if it were just a yellow.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Deserved red I say.

[Niall_Quinn]

A few people here will say it's harsh but it was cynical and from behind. It wasn't an attempt to play the ball. If the roles were reversed, I'd be pissed if it were just a yellow.

And yet there's no rule that says a cynical challenge is an automatic red, unless it prevents a goal scoring opportunity. So the ref has made a new rule there and then enforced it.

[GP]

Didn't watch the game

Xhaka sending off - harsh or fair?

Super harsh. It's just a little trip to stop him getting away.
One of those you see every game. Textbook yellow.

https://my.mixtape.moe/oxwznt.mp4

[GP]

Also, Iwobi is really excellent.

[Niall_Quinn]

Super harsh. It's just a little trip to stop him getting away.
One of those you see every game. Textbook yellow.

https://my.mixtape.moe/oxwznt.mp4

It's a new rule that came into existence for our game and has now been rescinded. So all above board, nothing to see, move on.

[Power n Glory]

And yet there's no rule that says a cynical challenge is an automatic red, unless it prevents a goal scoring opportunity. So the ref has made a new rule there and then enforced it.

But tackles from behind are classed as a serious foul worthy of a red. Look it up.

They've relaxed the rule on automatic reds that prevent goal scoring opportunities so you're wrong about that one too.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

3 points. Walcott really should have put the game to bed in the end but we should have never been in that sort of position in the first place. Scored 2 easy goals and but a lapse in concentration from Xhaka let them back in. An on and off game for Alexis and slow start for Ozil but that was a heck of a 3rd goal. Great pass and great finish.

We somehow fuck up again and Xhaka decides to go full retard. It was cynical and wasn't surprised the ref reached for his back pocket. Wenger needs to have a word with him. He had a poor game.

I thought the script was written and we'd choke but we didn't. Good subs from Wenger. They worked for once. Some good play by Ox and Theo staying on for 90 minutes for a change makes sense. He just needs to finish the chances off.

Theo getting more stick than Xhaka who was almost single handedly responsible for why it was even a contest. Typical. He of course should have scored but the lines men and ref were in a competition to see who could be the most incompetent.

Very good showing from the Ox indeed and as you say.....Wenger should have a word with Xhaka. Nobody got on his back for the first goal and then he makes a ridiculous foul in an area of little danger.

[Letters]

Didn't watch the game

Xhaka sending off - harsh or fair?

If it was a straight red, and I think it was, then I thought it was harsh.
It was reckless and from behind but a yellow would have been enough IMO.

[Niall_Quinn]

But tackles from behind are classed as a serious foul worthy of a red. Look it up.

They've relaxed the rule on automatic reds that prevent goal scoring opportunities so you're wrong about that one too.

Sigh.

That's a trip, not a tackle. You won't see a red given for a challenge like that again this season. Unless it's Moss reffing us perhaps. Yes, cynical. Yes, a trip. Yes, yellow.

But when it's a red it means the ref has created a new rule and as I understand it he's not permitted to do that. So either he's utterly incompetent or he's a cheat. I would say both in this instance.

[Goonermerree]

But tackles from behind are classed as a serious foul worthy of a red. Look it up.

They've relaxed the rule on automatic reds that prevent goal scoring opportunities so you're wrong about that one too.

I thought it came in a few years back that tackles from behind were a sure yellow, nowhere does it say red, if it does, show me and I'll agree. I see players taken out like that all the time and it's yellow, even if they get the ball, which admittedly, Zhaka was not even attempting to do.

[Letters]

A few people here will say it's harsh but it was cynical and from behind. It wasn't an attempt to play the ball. If the roles were reversed, I'd be pissed if it were just a yellow.

It was cynical but it was about on about the half way line. If he'd been bearing down on goal and he'd done that then I'd agree, but not there.
Yellow card, for me.

[Niall_Quinn]

If it was a straight red, and I think it was, then I thought it was harsh.
It was reckless and from behind but a yellow would have been enough IMO.

Certainly wasn't reckless. He had full control over what he was doing. That's where the cynicism came into it. Reminds me of the ludicrous Kos red some years back where he brought down the last man somewhere near the corner flag. Red again. Made up rules again.

[Globalgunner]

But tackles from behind are classed as a serious foul worthy of a red. Look it up.

They've relaxed the rule on automatic reds that prevent goal scoring opportunities so you're wrong about that one too.

These type of tackles are at least 20 a season. its hardly ever a red card.

[Kano]

Theo getting more stick than Xhaka who was almost single handedly responsible for why it was even a contest. Typical. He of course should have scored but the lines men and ref were in a competition to see who could be the most incompetent.

Very good showing from the Ox indeed and as you say.....Wenger should have a word with Xhaka. Nobody got on his back for the first goal and then he makes a ridiculous foul in an area of little danger.

I think Wenger and all of us knew about the other side to Xhaka when he signed. It was just a matter of time before he got a red. Was it four last season? He's already seen red for the national team this time round. He didn't help himself by making such a daft tackle. The mistake for the goal was horrible but the defence were far more at fault today with how poorly they organised themselves.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I agree with NQ, it was a trip not a tackle. If Xhaka actually thinks he could win the ball there he has no business being at Arsenal let alone being ahead of Coquelin.

You won't see another straight red like that this season.

[Niall_Quinn]

But tackles from behind are classed as a serious foul worthy of a red. Look it up.

They've relaxed the rule on automatic reds that prevent goal scoring opportunities so you're wrong about that one too.

No I'm not wrong because I used that very comparison previously and said "maybe". So no Internet Points for you on this occasion.

[Letters]

Certainly wasn't reckless. He had full control over what he was doing. That's where the cynicism came into it. Reminds me of the ludicrous Kos red some years back where he brought down the last man somewhere near the corner flag. Red again. Made up rules again.

Reckless in the sense that he didn't need to do it, not in the sense that it was dangerous. It wasn't a leg breaker or over the ball.
It was actually in their half and he had no hope of getting the ball, silly challenge but not a red for me.

[Goonermerree]

Theo needs to practise his finishing, but he was bobbing around the box and causing them problems. If he does that every week and scores two goals I'll be happy with him.

[Kano]

Theo needs to practise his finishing, but he was bobbing around the box and causing them problems. If he does that every week and scores two goals I'll be happy with him.

Our top scorer this season, fair play to him.

[Letters]

Theo needs to practise his finishing, but he was bobbing around the box and causing them problems. If he does that every week and scores two goals I'll be happy with him.

He was unlucky with the one off the post. The other one at the end... :doh:
He had time to take a touch and just pass it into the net.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I think Wenger and all of us knew about the other side to Xhaka when he signed. It was just a matter of time before he got a red. Was it four last season? He's already seen red for the national team this time round. He didn't help himself by making such a daft tackle. The mistake for the goal was horrible but the defence were far more at fault today with how poorly they organised themselves.
I thought it would have been sensible to target preventing the crosses but we gave them time and space which was partly why the quality of their delivery was so often good. Of course if you're trying to stop crosses it helps if you're not a man down!

[Niall_Quinn]

That said, Xhaka committed a pretty stupid foul in the first half that probably warranted a yellow. He was crap for much of the game and he's already showing symptoms of the wild form swings that all our players go through. He was consistent and steady (albeit in the most boring manner) during the Euros. Now he ranges from superb to woeful. Much like the team.

We desperately need an organiser to come in and cement the basics which Wenger clearly discards as irrelevant.

[Globalgunner]

I agree with NQ, it was a trip not a tackle. If Xhaka actually thinks he could win the ball there he has no business being at Arsenal let alone being ahead of Coquelin.

You won't see a straight red like that this season.

Rumour has it that ref John Moss once caught an Arsenal fan bedecked in full regalia screwing his wife. So that maybe why it was a red. My guess is that it was either Letters or that numpty from AFTV

[Power n Glory]

Theo getting more stick than Xhaka who was almost single handedly responsible for why it was even a contest. Typical. He of course should have scored but the lines men and ref were in a competition to see who could be the most incompetent.

Very good showing from the Ox indeed and as you say.....Wenger should have a word with Xhaka. Nobody got on his back for the first goal and then he makes a ridiculous foul in an area of little danger.

It's typical on here. If Coquelin had done what Xhaka had done, I'm sure the same people would criticize his performance and rightly so. It should have been a comfortable game.

The linesmen made a couple of bad calls. They really need to introduce some sort of tech to make these sort of calls. How these guys supposed to keep up with players like Walcott and Bellerin?

Good showing from Ox. Good to see him playing with that sort of confidence. May it continue. We need a strong bench.

Iwobi looked sharp today as well. Didn't have many big moments but could see he wanted to make something happen when he had the ball. That dribble run was amazing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Reckless in the sense that he didn't need to do it, not in the sense that it was dangerous. It wasn't a leg breaker or over the ball.
It was actually in their half and he had no hope of getting the ball, silly challenge but not a red for me.

Not a red for anyone who can use their eyes. So obviously Moss is disadvantaged in that respect. Always been a shit ref, always will be.

[Goonermerree]

Xhaka should just do xhaka boom every week,then we'll all love him!

[Power n Glory]

Sigh.

That's a trip, not a tackle. You won't see a red given for a challenge like that again this season. Unless it's Moss reffing us perhaps. Yes, cynical. Yes, a trip. Yes, yellow.

But when it's a red it means the ref has created a new rule and as I understand it he's not permitted to do that. So either he's utterly incompetent or he's a cheat. I would say both in this instance.

I'll have to watch that again, but he jumps in and lunges at the player to try get contact on the player and not the ball.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Will the dismissal be for violent conduct or a professional foul I wonder

[Niall_Quinn]

It's typical on here. If Coquelin had done what Xhaka had done, I'm sure the same people would criticize his performance and rightly so. It should have been a comfortable game.

The linesmen made a couple of bad calls. They really need to introduce some sort of tech to make these sort of calls. How these guys supposed to keep up with players like Walcott and Bellerin?

Good showing from Ox. Good to see him playing with that sort of confidence. May it continue. We need a strong bench.

Iwobi looked sharp today as well. Didn't have many big moments but could see he wanted to make something happen when he had the ball. That dribble run was amazing.

Theo deserves stick for his performance, as well as praise. It's high time he introduced some consistency to his game. He's had a decade to do it. It's just not good enough that he can't put in a decent 90 minutes on a consistent basis. And it's basic, basic stuff he's getting wrong. Okay so he screwed the final shot high and wide, but before that he was in front of goal and could pick the side he wanted to slot it into. He hit the post. It's not good enough.

[Niall_Quinn]

Will the dismissal be for violent conduct or a professional foul I wonder

Could be anything now that new rules are being created on the fly. I expect it to be overturned if they are going to review it and apply the actual rules. I doubt they'll do that though.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'll have to watch that again, but he jumps in and lunges at the player to try get contact on the player and not the ball.

There's no lunge. It would be impossible for him to lunge in that body position. It was a stretch and a clip, the sort of stuff Swansea were doing to Alexis and Theo all match and getting away with because they were sly about it. Xhaka was idiotically blatant about it and had two bites at the trip, the first one maybe accidental. So a yellow, no doubt. A red? Fantasy island plot.

[Goonermerree]

I'll have to watch that again, but he jumps in and lunges at the player to try get contact on the player and not the ball.

I don't think he did jump, he cynically tripped him. Yellow and FK yes, red, I don't think so. It will be interesting to hear what the pundits say who know about the game. (Taking the whotsit with the last bit) And what about that foul on Ozil as he was about to run into the box, no card at all for that. Shocking! Plus at least two on Theo that went without fouls given. Just shows the refs bias to me.

[Globalgunner]

I'll have to watch that again, but he jumps in and lunges at the player to try get contact on the player and not the ball.

No need to watch it again. Watch any other match that involves any other team except Arsenal. i promise you in any 2 of 5, the same trip will be repeated, it wont result in a red.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think he did jump, he cynically tripped him. Yellow and FK yes, red, I don't think so. It will be interesting to hear what the pundits say who know about the game. (Taking the whotsit with the last bit) And what about that foul on Ozil as he was about to run into the box, no card at all for that. Shocking! Plus at least two on Theo that went without fouls given. Just shows the refs bias to me.

It looked like a lunge to me. If he were running along side him, pulled him back or stepped on his heels he'd have picked up a yellow but it's the fact that he was outpaced and knew it so he dived in. I think the ref has a case if he thinks that foul had enough force to cause an injury. It looked like a kick and not a trip.

[Power n Glory]

Theo deserves stick for his performance, as well as praise. It's high time he introduced some consistency to his game. He's had a decade to do it. It's just not good enough that he can't put in a decent 90 minutes on a consistent basis. And it's basic, basic stuff he's getting wrong. Okay so he screwed the final shot high and wide, but before that he was in front of goal and could pick the side he wanted to slot it into. He hit the post. It's not good enough.

Top goal scorer for us this season. He scored 2 today and 7 already this season. I think it's 6 goals in his last 5 games. So far he's been consistent so relax a little.

[Marc Overmars]

Didn't see the game. Sounded a bit sketchy on the radio but it keeps the winning run going so good stuff. Well done to Walnut for continuing to rack up the goals.

[Globalgunner]

Top goal scorer for us this season. He scored 2 today and 7 already this season. I think it's 6 goals in his last 5 games. So far he's been consistent so relax a little.

He scored 2 goals that Kieran Gibbs would have scored in the same position, and missed 3 chances that a decent striker would take. I agree. He has been consistent with what the last 10 years have shown.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I don't think he did much wrong with the one that hit the post, it was the right shot to go for.

The one at the very end though - don't lean back! :doh:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

It was more the dangerous element rather than the cynicism that probably got him the red. I mean that could have done some serious damage to the Swansea guy. Agree with Wenger about it being a dark Yellow (i.e. in between yellow and red). Either way, Xhaka has no one to blame but himself for that and also his performance today. I'm one of his biggest fans but he had a right stinker today and Wenger would be perfectly right to start Coquelin next game (he has to for the next PL tie at any rate).

Anyway, just glad we managed to steer through this potential banana skin (new manager effect innit) no matter how hairy it got. And added bonus was to see our rivals drop points as well. Fantastic weekend so far.

[Goonermerree]

Well there you have it, a Swansea fan phones 606 and says the red card was a joke and, and, get this, Robbie Savage agreed with him. Can't have been red then!

[Letters]

:faint:

Really? I thought it was harsh. But it was a stupid one from Xhaka

[Keith]

Looked like your usual half way line foul to me, always a yellow. But today a red, no idea why!

[Letters]

I think he gave a red because it was from behind and there was no serious attempt to get the ball.
But it wasn't a dangerous one, it was just stupid.

[Ernesto]

He scored 2 goals that Kieran Gibbs would have scored in the same position, and missed 3 chances that a decent striker would take. I agree. He has been consistent with what the last 10 years have shown.

I'm going to be really controversial, at the risk of being hounded out of GW altogether.

Walcott reminds me of Ian Wright. At least this season he does. He's scoring regularly and he's also shown profligacy in front of goal. I understand it's frustrating when a player doesn't score from 5 out of 5 on target on target opportunities but, by the same token, we shouldn't be castigating him if he's scored 2 goals in a game. That should normally be enough to win any game- if your team mates knew how to defend.

[Marc Overmars]

Probably would have got away with a yellow if it was just a tug of the shirt to stop the counter. Any tackle from behind is going to be perceived as dangerous though, especially when you've clearly been beaten by the man.

No issues with the red really. I'm sure we'd be up in arms if that happened to one of our players and the offender got away with a yellow.

[GP]

Probably would have got away with a yellow if it was just a tug of the shirt to stop the counter. Any tackle from behind is going to be perceived as dangerous though, especially when you've clearly been beaten by the man.

No issues with the red really. I'm sure we'd be up in arms if that happened to one of our players and the offender got away with a yellow.

I don't think so. It's the standard tactical foul that you see every week. A sly trip, take the yellow for the team.

[adzzzbatch]

We see it against us all the time, normally in the big games. Those times the commentators normally say it's "cynical" but very "clever" and breaks up the play and stops our attack.

[Marc Overmars]

A sly trip, take the yellow for the team.

That's where he did himself no favours though, there wasn't anything sly about it. He got done and made what in real time must have looked like a fairly dangerous tackle from behind.

Just grab the blokes shirt next time and you'll be fine Granit.

[adzzzbatch]

That's where he did himself no favours though, there wasn't anything sly about it. He got done and made what in real time must have looked like a fairly dangerous tackle from behind.

Just grab the blokes shirt next time and you'll be fine Granit.

Maybe the next time it happens to us; the opposing team's player will be sent off? We shall see from now on how consistent the refs are.

[Letters]

That's the thing, for me. Consistency. And I don't think there's any anti-Arsenal witch hunt. But you'll see plenty of similar tackles this season which won't earn a red card.

[adzzzbatch]

I doubt it will ever change, what still irritates me the most and has for years now is how the officials let other team's players, often in some sort of fouling rotation, get away with niggly/cynical fouls against us over and over again until the ref may only end up producing a yellow card to one player a midway through the 2nd half. In contrast there's been so many times where one of our players receive a yellow for their first tackle/foul.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think there is an anti Arsenal witch hunt but I think there is a tendency to allow our oponents more scope to be physical than us.

[adzzzbatch]

I don't think there is an anti Arsenal witch hunt but I think there is a tendency to allow our oponents more scope to be physical than us.

Something which harks back to round about The Invincibles time, when allowing our opponents more leeway against us was a way of "levelling the field" as teams were never able to compete against us on a technical level so allow them to kick us off the park was seen as a fair way of doing that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Maybe the next time it happens to us; the opposing team's player will be sent off? We shall see from now on how consistent the refs are.

LOL. No.

[Marc Overmars]

Maybe the next time it happens to us; the opposing team's player will be sent off? We shall see from now on how consistent the refs are.

You'd hope for consistency but I doubt it. "Professional fouls" happen all the time, I just think Xhaka unnecessarily made it look worse than it was and in that moment the ref perceived it as something more serious. I'm sure we will be on the end of far worse decisions than this.

I think WUMger described it well as a "dark yellow" card.

[Niall_Quinn]

Whatever opinions pundits, Wenger or anyone else has there are still rules to the game. And the ref made up a new rule today. Unless he's trying to say that was a violent and dangerous tackle, in which case he's a blind retard. More likely it's a lot simpler than that, he's a cheat.

[adzzzbatch]

You'd hope for consistency but I doubt it. "Professional fouls" happen all the time, I just think Xhaka unnecessarily made it look worse than it was and in that moment the ref perceived it as something more serious. I'm sure we will be on the end of far worse decisions than this.

I think WUMger described it well as a "dark yellow" card.

I can't remember, is Wenger one of those that would like to see a "sin bin" introduced?

[Kano]

I don't think there is an anti Arsenal witch hunt but I think there is a tendency to allow our oponents more scope to be physical than us.

Nah, otherwise Coq would be off most weeks and Flamini would've been every week. The refs are just generally poor. Fans from every club would say they are victimised. There is no neutral way of analysing it because everyone is biased or comprised in one way or the other. Be it fan, pundit or journalist. Instead of old fucks running round with fading eyesight trying to keep up, the refs should be as fit and of the same age. Even then it probably wouldn't be enough. Get technology in to help, because they sure as hell need it.

[Gooner23]

Just watching match of the day and the red was harsh, normally that would be a yellow card. Not sure about an Arsenal bias, just think the overall standard of refereeing is very poor. The Cresswell sending off for the Hammers was ridiculous. Just can't understand why video replays don't get used.

I thought yesterday was a banana skin so 3 points crucial.

[Penguin]

It looked like a lunge to me. If he were running along side him, pulled him back or stepped on his heels he'd have picked up a yellow but it's the fact that he was outpaced and knew it so he dived in. I think the ref has a case if he thinks that foul had enough force to cause an injury. It looked like a kick and not a trip.

It was cynical but It wasn't dangerous. Watch it again, Xhaka kicks the side of Barrow's boot with his laces. It's a tactical foul on the halfway line with plenty of Arsenal players behind the ball... book him, give Swansea a free kick and carry on. Barrow tried to con the ref by rolling around on the floor and the ref fell for it.

It was stupid by Xhaka to give him the opportunity but it's harsh to give a red for that.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

This season, it's a red say Goals on Sunday.

It'll be deemed a deliberate foul with no chance of getting the ball.

[Niall_Quinn]

If that's the case, I expect to see 6 or 7 reds per team, every game. We won't see that though, will we? Such silly words have been used to describe such a minor incident. "Lunge, dangerous", ludicrous. Deliberate is the word that applies here. So if it's now red for deliberate fouls then have at it. Or else do what Moss did yesterday, pick your team and then hand them an advantage in order to try to influence the result.

[Penguin]

Our defending was horrible yesterday. We were lucky that Swansea were as wasteful in front of goal as we were.

Monreal got done time and time again, I wonder if he's lost half a yard of pace? We should probably start looking for a successor if we haven't already.

I lost count of how many chances Swansea created with early crosses or balls over the top. Koscielny kept letting the striker go and hoping for offside. Think he had the same problem against PSG so hopefully someone flags that up for him when they analyse this game.

Mustafi was good overall but twice he didn't bother jumping for headers from crosses towards the end of the game. Why give them free headers on goal? He was also arguably at fault for not tracking the runner for Swansea's second goal.

[Penguin]

This season, it's a red say Goals on Sunday.

It'll be deemed a deliberate foul with no chance of getting the ball.

First I've heard of it but that's right, I just googled the official rules:

"The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played"
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#dEzaYafMYp0gPrFq.99

They hid that quite well in the Q&A section at the bottom of the page.

It will be interesting to see if that rule is consistently applied because that kind of cynical challenge happens in almost every game. Not always as obviously as Xhaka's, but when do we NOT see someone being pulled back or fouled to stop a counter? If you go by the letter of the law that's now a red card offence. I could probably even find at least one example in last nights MOTD... what a ridiculous rule :lol:

[Gooner23]

If that's the case, I expect to see 6 or 7 reds per team, every game. We won't see that though, will we? Such silly words have been used to describe such a minor incident. "Lunge, dangerous", ludicrous. Deliberate is the word that applies here. So if it's now red for deliberate fouls then have at it. Or else do what Moss did yesterday, pick your team and then hand them an advantage in order to try to influence the result.

I have no issues with it becoming a red card if applied fairly and consistently, we would actually benefit because we're often on the end of cynical and deliberate fouling. However I have no confidence this will be the case.

[Kano]

First I've heard of it but that's right, I just googled the official rules:

"The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played"
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#dEzaYafMYp0gPrFq.99

They hid that quite well in the Q&A section at the bottom of the page.

It will be interesting to see if that rule is consistently applied because that kind of cynical challenge happens in almost every game. Not always as obviously as Xhaka's, but when do we NOT see someone being pulled back or fouled to stop a counter? If you go by the letter of the law that's now a red card offence. I could probably even find at least one example in last nights MOTD... what a ridiculous rule :lol:

The idea of consistency can only ever be that, because these are humans trying to apply rules through their own interpretations of the laws and using their own sense of logic. Add in their own emotional confusion at times, whether they are aware or can fully control it or not, fitness and bias - again acutely aware or not - and it's impossible to get uniform decisions on everything. The only possible way is too apply the absolute letter of the law in every situation, which would lead to us fans shouting and screaming about how the laws are being applied too rigidly. The pace of the game over here would probably drop off over a few seasons and they'd be multiple games abandoned because they aren't enough players left on the pitch to finish the games.

[Power n Glory]

First I've heard of it but that's right, I just googled the official rules:

"The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played"
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#dEzaYafMYp0gPrFq.99

They hid that quite well in the Q&A section at the bottom of the page.

It will be interesting to see if that rule is consistently applied because that kind of cynical challenge happens in almost every game. Not always as obviously as Xhaka's, but when do we NOT see someone being pulled back or fouled to stop a counter? If you go by the letter of the law that's now a red card offence. I could probably even find at least one example in last nights MOTD... what a ridiculous rule :lol:

What Xhaka was trying to do was blatant. That's the difference. He can't be given the benefit of the doubt with that challenge especially the way Barrow was killing us down the wing. In other cases you could argue it was a late challenge.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cu3ucssW8AElbNj.jpg

Xhaka stopped a 4 on 2 with it at 3-2

:bow:

Monreal :rose:

[Niall_Quinn]

First I've heard of it but that's right, I just googled the official rules:

"The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played"
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#dEzaYafMYp0gPrFq.99

They hid that quite well in the Q&A section at the bottom of the page.

It will be interesting to see if that rule is consistently applied because that kind of cynical challenge happens in almost every game. Not always as obviously as Xhaka's, but when do we NOT see someone being pulled back or fouled to stop a counter? If you go by the letter of the law that's now a red card offence. I could probably even find at least one example in last nights MOTD... what a ridiculous rule :lol:

Wow. Why not just create a rule that states the ref can decide the score? This is a cheat's charter. Cunts like Costa will be diving all over the shop and cunts like Moss will be waving endless reds at any team he'd not keen on. They relax the automatic red for a foul when through on goal and then add this rule on the quiet? A straight red for tripping an opponent? This happens every 5 minutes in a match, or should I say certain players make it look like it happens every 5 minutes. What about all the fouls on Alexis and Theo yesterday then? Why weren't there any reds for those?

This is getting like F1, rules designed to manipulate the outcome.

[Niall_Quinn]

I have no issues with it becoming a red card if applied fairly and consistently, we would actually benefit because we're often on the end of cynical and deliberate fouling. However I have no confidence this will be the case.

It will be precisely the opposite. Shrek's new job will be to get players sent off. He's just been given a whole new lease of life. Same with fucks like Costa. Instead of introducing rules to penalise him for hitting the deck every 5 minutes they have rewarded him with an incentive to step up his antics. I bet they'll even practise this to find the best techniques for conning refs. Where is the red card rule for divers? Why is that still only a yellow then? This should be called the Costa Clause.

[Goonermerree]

Well, I've always thought that cynical fouls should be red carded as they stop the flow of the game and penailises a good move, but as with the rest of you, I doubt that we'll see many red cards for it. Undoubtedly, the Costa's of this world will make sure they get a lot of players sent off. Was Barrow that badly injured by Xhaka's fouls as he was claiming by rolling around the deck?

[Goonermerree]

'He immediately hurls the ball to the left towards Isaac Success, who is hauled over by Antonio Barragan.

The Middlesbrough defender is booked by referee Roger East for the infringement, which took place in the Watford half.

The Spaniard knew what he was doing there and a deserved yellow.'

Trying to get my head around the new rule. Is this not the same thing as Xhaka in principle, and should have been red?

[Goonermerree]

Lol, just seen another with Gaston, pulled his man over, no attempt to pay the ball, yellow only.

[Goonermerree]

Ok, last one. Gaston upends his opponent, no attempt to play the ball, not even a yellow.

[Niall_Quinn]

'He immediately hurls the ball to the left towards Isaac Success, who is hauled over by Antonio Barragan.

The Middlesbrough defender is booked by referee Roger East for the infringement, which took place in the Watford half.

The Spaniard knew what he was doing there and a deserved yellow.'

Trying to get my head around the new rule. Is this not the same thing as Xhaka in principle, and should have been red?

No, there's a very fundamental difference. Arsenal isn't playing.

[Penguin]

What Xhaka was trying to do was blatant. That's the difference. He can't be given the benefit of the doubt with that challenge especially the way Barrow was killing us down the wing. In other cases you could argue it was a late challenge.

Blatant cynical fouls happen every week though and probably have done since football was invented. It will be pretty obvious what's happening the next time someone pulls someone back to stop a counter, so lets see if a red is issued the when that happens.

[Power n Glory]

Blatant cynical fouls happen every week though and probably have done since football was invented. It will be pretty obvious what's happening the next time someone pulls someone back to stop a counter, so lets see if a red is issued the when that happens.

Would you be happy for players to get away with such challenges on us all the time and they go unpunished? Refs being consistent is a separate issue. But would you rather see refs be more lenient or strict? I'd welcome stricter punishments for such fouls because we're usually on the end of them. If this season we see more harsher punishments, I'd be OK with it. Xhaka is the only real liability in the squad.

[Chippy]

Walcott at the end :doh:

Made it harder work than we should have but overall a good win. Think that's 9 wins out of 10 in all competitions, not too bad.
Good going forward, crap defending TBH. Kos and Mustafi need to do much better if we have any chance of silverware. Their positioning was terrible, better teams would have punished us.

[Penguin]

Would you be happy for players to get away with such challenges on us all the time and they go unpunished? Refs being consistent is a separate issue. But would you rather see refs be more lenient or strict? I'd welcome stricter punishments for such fouls because we're usually on the end of them. If this season we see more harsher punishments, I'd be OK with it. Xhaka is the only real liability in the squad.

I'd probably welcome it too but only if the rules are the same in Europe. It might put us at a disadvantage in the CL if not

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Stupid unclear rule change hardly applied in anger hitherto. one cynical tackle you get a yellow, another and your off. Why does it need to be straight to red?

And NQ is right....all this crap and yet where is the rule change for a blatant dive?....or anything that would have seen Costa off in his first 4 or so games, games in which he shouldn't have remained on the pitch for?


But back to our football, we really need to take better control of these games.

[Power n Glory]

I'd probably welcome it too but only if the rules are the same in Europe. It might put us at a disadvantage in the CL if not

The rules in Europe have always been harsher but I can't see how it will put us at a disadvantage.

[Power n Glory]

Stupid unclear rule change hardly applied in anger hitherto. one cynical tackle you get a yellow, another and your off. Why does it need to be straight to red?

And NQ is right....all this crap and yet where is the rule change for a blatant dive?....or anything that would have seen Costa off in his first 4 or so games, games in which he shouldn't have remained on the pitch for?


But back to our football, we really need to take better control of these games.

I think it's clear. I have no real problem with the rule. I think Xhaka's challenge was a clear cut example of how it should be applied. If no attempt to play the ball and it's that blatant, it should be a red. Imagine if Ox were taken down cynically like that when he made his last run? I don't think the players should have a safety net to pick up a caution in those types of situations. It's not in line with the spirit of the game to be able to disrupt a move like that with no intention of playing the ball. If it were the type of slide tackle that we see all the time, the hard challenge where the player either gets the ball or the man, that's worthy of a yellow if he wipes the player out instead of winning the ball. You can at least argue it's a challenge for the ball.

As for dives, should be a straight red if it's blatant but I think they need replays to apply this one. Tricky players that get clipped or simulation where they make the most of contact....I can see a lot of refs getting that one wrong if it's a straight red. Many will be wrongfully sent off. They need video replays to deal with that one.

[Niall_Quinn]

Makes no sense. You want care applied for divers but not for their victims? We already have specialist box divers like Rooney and Costa. Now we'll see this happening all over the pitch. And to make it worse it will now be ten times more likely that incompetent or corrupt refs influence results.

[Power n Glory]

Makes no sense. You want care applied for divers but not for their victims? We already have specialist box divers like Rooney and Costa. Now we'll see this happening all over the pitch. And to make it worse it will now be ten times more likely that incompetent or corrupt refs influence results.

I didn't say that at all. What's happened to your comprehension skills? I said it should be a straight red for a blatant dive but with many con artists in the game you need video replays to catch the real sneaky ones. We've seen cases where contact looks minimal but on a replay you see a player has been clipped and a penalty should be awarded but the ref waves on. We've seen it happen to us plenty of times. You need video replays for this. Gary Neville explained this issue perfectly. It's not an easy one to rule on unless the ref is 100% it was a dive with no contact.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No surprise that their second goal came down our left hand side

Monreal is a real weak link in this Arsenal side currently, to let routledge get past him the way he did just not good enough

If Wenger doesn't trust Gibbs, we should be looking to sign a left back in January (of course we clearly won't)

[Kano]

Not as easy as saying it's just Monreal. I don't see Iwobi back there much and he gaps inbetween Kos and Monreal were too big at times.

[Power n Glory]

Way too easy to blame Monreal. Iwobi has to step his defensive game up and I hope Wenger has a word with him about defending. Monreal was fine when playing with Sanchez.

[Letters]

"The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played"
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#dEzaYafMYp0gPrFq.99

They hid that quite well in the Q&A section at the bottom of the page.
Where are you looking? There's this bit

Q10: Is every DOGSO offence in the penalty now only a caution (YC)?
NO – the Law has only changed for those DOGSO offences in the penalty area where the offender makes an attempt to play the ball or challenge an opponent for the ball. The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played

But this is in a section about Denial of a Goal Scoring Opportunity, which this clearly wasn't as it was in their half.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Way too easy to blame Monreal. Iwobi has to step his defensive game up and I hope Wenger has a word with him about defending. Monreal was fine when playing with Sanchez.

Iwobi is young and the defensive part of his game will take time to develop

The fact is we are having to rely far too much on wingers/attacking players on the left hand side to muck in defensively because Monreal is so slow and ultimately gets beaten for pace or fails to stop crosses far more often than Bellerin on the other side.

[Kano]

That's the modern game. I can't think of a wide forward player - apart from Ronnie - that is given the freedom not to get back and help cover his corresponding defender. Bellerin is a freak with his pace but still, when we had Ramsey on the right in front of him, we were very solid. Because Rambo gets back. Same with Theo now finally putting in the work and making more tackles already this season that he did in the whole of last season.

[Power n Glory]

Iwobi is young and the defensive part of his game will take time to develop

The fact is we are having to rely far too much on wingers/attacking players on the left hand side to muck in defensively because Monreal is so slow and ultimately gets beaten for pace or fails to stop crosses far more often than Bellerin on the other side.

Wenger still has to have a word with him and not just sit and hope he develops defensive awareness. Look at the curious case of Theo Walcott. After years of playing on the wing, why did it take Wenger publicly saying he needs to defend better before he started putting in a shift?

As Kano said, it's the modern game and wingers have to defend. Not sure if that revelation just hit Wenger and instead of telling a player to adapt his game, he'll just swap a player for a more defensive minded winger if he thinks we'll be exposed on the wing. I don't want to see that happen with Iwobi. He needs to have an all round good game and not end up like Theo, Ramsey and Cesc. Wenger neglected certain areas of the players I mentioned and allowed them to focus purely on their strengths instead of developing their weak areas.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You seem to indicate that i am saying that Iwobi should be left alone to develop defensive skills on his own, what i'm saying is that players at his age whether they are wide players or full backs take time to mature to the point where they are more defensively disciplined.....of course words need to be had with him and of course he needs to do more defensively....but it doesn't happen overnight.
But again I think this is all rather besides the point, the point is whoever we play in that position...Monreal is a liability to us...even when we had Sanchez wide left he would get beaten all too much and most of the goals we have conceded either from set pieces or balls into the box comes down our left hand side.


Whatever Iwobi did or didn't do on Saturday, the second goal was Monreal's fault....he was far too passive and i think unlike Iwobi he hasn't got scope to improve.

[Niall_Quinn]

I didn't say that at all. What's happened to your comprehension skills? I said it should be a straight red for a blatant dive but with many con artists in the game you need video replays to catch the real sneaky ones. We've seen cases where contact looks minimal but on a replay you see a player has been clipped and a penalty should be awarded but the ref waves on. We've seen it happen to us plenty of times. You need video replays for this. Gary Neville explained this issue perfectly. It's not an easy one to rule on unless the ref is 100% it was a dive with no contact.

Why the replay for dives but not for trips? You don't trust the ref not to be conned for the former but his judgement is sufficient for the latter? There are going to be many "blatant trips" on players like Costa. He'll know exactly how to milk this rule, if it really is a rule and hasn't just been made up on Saturday. He'll go past a player and deliberately go over his leg, then roll around the place screaming. Unless the ref is right on the spot what's he going to do? For home games the crowd will decide most of the time. Fifty thousand howling, a cheating scumbag rolling around on the deck. Costa already does all this shit, he doesn't need further favours from the authorities.

I don't disagree with the idea that blatant foul play of any kind should be harshly punished. But leaving this to incompetent and corrupt refs is a recipe for disaster and also cheating. I have no problem at all with it if they give the 4th official instant replay facilities and then show the result on the big screen. But that has been resisted by the authorities for years under some lame excuse about the game being delayed or smaller clubs not being able to afford the technology. Bullshit excuses for not bringing the top flight of the game into the 21st century. And I wonder why that is?

As things stand with this new rule the likes of Costa are laughing themselves silly and players like himself and Robben will soon have new arts perfected to take advantage of this gift.

[Power n Glory]

You're probably in the minority on that. Monreal was our most consistent player last season. Or at least one of them and it's why he's finally earned a call up for Spain. He's not a problem.

[Niall_Quinn]

Where are you looking? There's this bit

Q10: Is every DOGSO offence in the penalty now only a caution (YC)?
NO – the Law has only changed for those DOGSO offences in the penalty area where the offender makes an attempt to play the ball or challenge an opponent for the ball. The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played

But this is in a section about Denial of a Goal Scoring Opportunity, which this clearly wasn't as it was in their half.

Well spotted and if this is the case then Moss needs to be sacked.

Mind you, if it's not the case then Moss needs to be sacked.

[Power n Glory]

Why the replay for dives but not for trips? You don't trust the ref not to be conned for the former but his judgement is sufficient for the latter? There are going to be many "blatant trips" on players like Costa. He'll know exactly how to milk this rule, if it really is a rule and hasn't just been made up on Saturday. He'll go past a player and deliberately go over his leg, then roll around the place screaming. Unless the ref is right on the spot what's he going to do? For home games the crowd will decide most of the time. Fifty thousand howling, a cheating scumbag rolling around on the deck. Costa already does all this shit, he doesn't need further favours from the authorities.

I don't disagree with the idea that blatant foul play of any kind should be harshly punished. But leaving this to incompetent and corrupt refs is a recipe for disaster and also cheating. I have no problem at all with it if they give the 4th official instant replay facilities and then show the result on the big screen. But that has been resisted by the authorities for years under some lame excuse about the game being delayed or smaller clubs not being able to afford the technology. Bullshit excuses for not bringing the top flight of the game into the 21st century. And I wonder why that is?

As things stand with this new rule the likes of Costa are laughing themselves silly and players like himself and Robben will soon have new arts perfected to take advantage of this gift.

Before I read any of that, was a replay needed for that Xhaka challenge? Was it not clear and obvious that he was trying to trip the player and not play the ball?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Monreal played well for the first half of last season, but in 2016 he's been a liability and it seems absurd to rely on a 30 year old who isn't particularly that great technically or endowed with any pace.

He was a total embarrassment against PSG and will continue to be against any right sided wingers with any great trickery or pace....clearly the biggest issue in the side currently.

[Letters]

Well spotted and if this is the case then Moss needs to be sacked.

Mind you, if it's not the case then Moss needs to be sacked.

Wasn't me who spotted it, to be fair.
I post it on FB in a discussion on there about this and someone else pointed that out. :lol:

So I'm back to my original position: ridiculous red card and I bet you'll see very few more like that this season.

[Kano]

Where are you looking? There's this bit

Q10: Is every DOGSO offence in the penalty now only a caution (YC)?
NO – the Law has only changed for those DOGSO offences in the penalty area where the offender makes an attempt to play the ball or challenge an opponent for the ball. The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played

But this is in a section about Denial of a Goal Scoring Opportunity, which this clearly wasn't as it was in their half.

I'm not sure it was a red but Xhaka left himself at the mercy of the ref by being so rash, especially as Ox said they had been told about the rule before the start of the season. Arguably you could say it was a goal scoring opportunity as they were about to hit us on the break with four against two. I do have to applaud Xhaka's cynical approach in stopping what should have been a great chance for Swansea to score again. We've missed that mentality for a while now.

[Niall_Quinn]

Before I read any of that, was a replay needed for that Xhaka challenge? Was it not clear and obvious that he was trying to trip the player and not play the ball?

No, that challenge was clear enough. No replay required. Are you saying that's the benchmark for this new rule? Fine, then why do we need replays for dives? If they are as blatant as that then straight red and no need for a replay either. And if there's doubt on either side then no red. I'm sure that's what they intend, but I found it odd you wanted further proof of a dive and yet were prepared to accept the ref's call without backup in the case of this new rule.

[Power n Glory]

Where are you looking? There's this bit

Q10: Is every DOGSO offence in the penalty now only a caution (YC)?
NO – the Law has only changed for those DOGSO offences in the penalty area where the offender makes an attempt to play the ball or challenge an opponent for the ball. The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played

But this is in a section about Denial of a Goal Scoring Opportunity, which this clearly wasn't as it was in their half.

It's still a red if the ref considers it a goal scoring opportunity outside of the box. We're looking at a 4 on 2 situation if Xhaka doesn't make that foul. A yellow card or free kick doesn't restore the opportunity so it's a red card. Let's be honest, if Xhaka doesn't commit that foul, they could have scored with that counter.



Q9: Why was the ‘triple punishment’ for denial of an obvious goal-scoring opportunity (DOGSO) offences changed for offences in the penalty area?
The main reason is that the award of a penalty kick effectively ‘restores’ the obvious goal-scoring opportunity that was denied by the foul. It was felt that a penalty, red card and suspension (the three/triple punishment) was too strong so the red card has become a caution (YC) but only for DOGSO offences which are an attempt to play the ball or challenge an opponent for the ball.

Q10: Is every DOGSO offence in the penalty now only a caution (YC)?
NO – the Law has only changed for those DOGSO offences in the penalty area where the offender makes an attempt to play the ball or challenge an opponent for the ball. The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played

Q11: Can a DOGSO offence outside the penalty area be punished with a caution (YC)? NO – unlike a penalty kick, a free kick is not an obvious chance to score a goal so it does not ‘restore’ the obvious goal-scoring opportunity that was denied by the offence - the disciplinary sanction for all DOGSO offences outside the penalty area remains a sending-off (RC).

Q12: If a player commits a DOGSO offence punished by an indirect free kick (IDFK) in the penalty area what is the disciplinary sanction? The change relating to DOGSO offences is only when the referee awards a penalty kick. This is because the penalty kick effectively restores the lost obvious goal-scoring opportunity. As an IDFK does not restore the lost obvious goal-scoring opportunity, the sanction for any DOGSO offence resulting in an IDFK is a sending-off (RC).
Read more at http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#qG8kJomerTOOZpKW.99

[Letters]

Even if a player is bearing down on goal and is brought down it's not considered a clear goal scoring opportunity if there is a covering defender who might have got accross.
To say that a player in his own half was denied a goal scoring opportunity is ludicrouse.
It was a quick break which may well have led to one but you could say that about any quick break, surely?

[Power n Glory]

No, that challenge was clear enough. No replay required. Are you saying that's the benchmark for this new rule? Fine, then why do we need replays for dives? If they are as blatant as that then straight red and no need for a replay either. And if there's doubt on either side then no red. I'm sure that's what they intend, but I found it odd you wanted further proof of a dive and yet were prepared to accept the ref's call without backup in the case of this new rule.

Because a dive isn't that blatant. If the ref is 100% sure it's a dive then it should be a sending off but these days it never is that simple where a player goes over with nobody next to him. As said, just watch the below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dWgs0QZWYM

It's clear what Xhaka did and that foul helped us.

[Power n Glory]

Even if a player is bearing down on goal and is brought down it's not considered a clear goal scoring opportunity if there is a covering defender who might have got accross.
To say that a player in his own half was denied a goal scoring opportunity is ludicrouse.
It was a quick break which may well have led to one but you could say that about any quick break, surely?

Technicalities. I think the ref got the spirit of the rule right. Say the score was 3-3 and we were on the receiving end of that sort of challenge with Ox being brought down instead? A yellow card would seem like an injustice. The opportunity is gone and who wouldn't do that if it stops an opportunity and only results in a yellow?

[Power n Glory]

[QUOTE=Munchies;539446]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cu3ucssW8AElbNj.jpg

Look at the opportunity.

Plus Xhaka jumps off the to make that challenge. Isn't that deemed reckless and out of control? There is a reason why we haven't challenged this one. It's just dumb and blatant. Wenger just needs to have a word with him because we don't usually have players that make such obvious fouls.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqdzpUp0j0U

[Kano]

Even if a player is bearing down on goal and is brought down it's not considered a clear goal scoring opportunity if there is a covering defender who might have got accross.
To say that a player in his own half was denied a goal scoring opportunity is ludicrouse.
It was a quick break which may well have led to one but you could say that about any quick break, surely?

The headline of being in his own half makes it sound ridiculous but in one second he would've been in our side of the pitch. The likelihood of a goal scoring chance is probably a lot higher when they are likely to have twice as many players bearing down on goal compared to those defending it. If it was made under the guideline of preventing a goal scoring opportunity, I think the ref made a fair call on that given that a goal scoring opportunity was extremely likely to occur from that scenario. It's not like it was 3 in 3, or they had just broken out of their penalty area then Xhaka commits the foul.

[Letters]

There was the possibility of a goal scoring opportunity, but there are two defenders there and others racing back (as are attackers racing forward of course). You can always say there's a possibility of an opportunity when a team is breaking at pace, very few of those end up as goals. He wasn't bearing down on goal.

We haven't appealed it because we wouldn't win as it's all so debatable but I agree with PnG's comment about Wenger having a word.

Although...if you think it was as good an opportunity as all that then surely he did need to do something and take one for the team?

[Power n Glory]

There was the possibility of a goal scoring opportunity, but there are two defenders there and others racing back (as are attackers racing forward of course). You can always say there's a possibility of an opportunity when a team is breaking at pace, very few of those end up as goals. He wasn't bearing down on goal.

We haven't appealed it because we wouldn't win as it's all so debatable but I agree with PnG's comment about Wenger having a word.

Although...if you think it was as good an opportunity as all that then surely he did need to do something and take one for the team?

I'm not happy when other teams do that to us so it feels slightly hypocritical to applaud this one. I'd be pissed if that happened to Theo or Ox especially considering their injury records and frail bones. Think if Ox were fouled like that when he broke to set up Theo? Instead of cursing Theo's missed chance we'd be pissed about being ribbed of an opportunity to break on the team. Especially if it were 3-3.

This is a good piece worth reading.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/17/granit-xhakas-red-card-lesson-dont-foul-like-that-in-a-place-whe/


Even a blind eye as accomplished as Arsene Wenger's could not be turned from this one. Granit Xhaka's playground trip on Modou Barrow on Saturday was conducted so close to where the Arsenal manager was standing in his technical area, you could almost see his fringe lifting in the jetstream whoosh as the Swansea winger took off and flew. Barrow had been in tormenting form, twisting the Arsenal full back Nacho Monreal this way and that like he was auditioning to replace Ed Balls on Strictly Come Dancing. Every time he got the ball, the jitters of alarm spread through the most panic-prone crowd in the country. He had just bamboozled Xhaka with the pace of his turn. And the Swiss midfielder took immediate retribution, flicking out to catch his trailing leg, sending him careering turfwards. It was the kind of foul football crowds love to see in their own team.

"Good on you," shouted the Arsenal fan closest to the press box. "Take one for the team, Granit."

And that was what it seemed: a yellow card offence. Barrow was upended on the halfway line. The intent was cynical rather than violent. He was not denied a goal-scoring opportunity: there were at least three more defenders between him and the Arsenal area. As the referee Jon Moss approached the scene of the crime, the expectation was he would take a cautionary note of Xhaka's name and no more. When he produced a red card, everyone in the Arsenal sections went into immediate apoplexy, screaming their disdain at the official, suddenly fearing his zeal would jeopardise the pursuit of three points.

Everyone, that is, except Wenger, who stood and watched his player head for the dressing room, arms folded, lips pursed.

Afterwards Wenger did not attempt mitigation. He reckoned Xhaka's offence worthy of a "dark yellow". He would not dispute why Moss thought it more serious. He would, he added, be having a word with his player.

"Intelligence means learning from such mistakes," Wenger said.



And you can understand why he took that line. At a time when Arsenal were rocking, when their lead appeared increasingly imperilled, when Swansea looked as if they might extend their lengthy jinx on his team, Wenger was obliged to watch his defensive midfielder undermine the collective endeavour through a childish act of retribution. More to the point, however, it was the kind of foul that would most infuriate the manager had it been conducted on an Arsenal player. Barrow might be raw and wholly inconsistent, but he is clearly a talent. And he was shining in North London, his pace and directness causing continuing confusion. To stop him in such a manner was anathema to Wenger's beliefs about how the game should be played.

Xhaka does not come with a reputation for foul play. He is whole hearted, certainly, but not dirty. As he sits out Arsenal's next couple of games, he will have the opportunity for reflection. The first thing he will have learned is not to commit a foul like that again in a place where even Arsene Wenger can't miss it.

[Kano]

Sure but four against two makes it extremely likely something is going to develop, even three against our two. A foul can be committed between the half way and our penalty area and still result in a sending off, even when a shot hasn't been taken. The likelihood is one would've been but there's always the chance of a poor pass, the ball getting stuck under their feet or a defender making a good tackle. In those situations the ref has to make a call on the likelihood of a goal scoring chance occurring, obviously the higher the percentage the more likely he is to blow his whistle. Given the circumstances of what was about to develop, I think he made a fair call.

I said in my post on the last page I'm glad he did it, as we've missed that cynicism in the team. But there's no mistaking it was still rash. Wenger can have a word all he wants but it won't make a difference to Xhaka. I think it was four times last season and twice already this time round (Switzerland). Wenger knew what he was buying and we knew it would happen for one reason or another sooner or later. But it's like the good ole days, in that we have someone sent off and still take the points.

[Letters]

I'd actually be pretty happy if those sorts of cynical challenges were red cards but they're very rarely given and that in itself makes me think it was a soft one.

[Goonermerree]

Just watched MOTD hoping for a big discussion on it, but Lineker just said 'a yellow would have sufficed' and nothing else was mentioned. I've always said that tackles like that should be red, but we have suffered many like that and they were only yellow. It just seems wrong that we were on the end of a red card for it, especially when I saw more dangerous ones yesterday that warranted only a yellow, or no card given at all. If Xhaka's was a red card offence, fine, but can we at least see some consistency?

[Letters]

Consistency is the key and I get you'll never have that 100% but these kinds of tackles are common, red cards for them are not. That's what makes it harsh in my view.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It shouldn't be a red card offence anyway, it's not dangerous play, it's not a potential career ending challenge. It's cynical and deserving of a yellow.

I'm frankly more concerned that it will play on Wenger's mind and he will try and discourage these type of fouls, if we are dealing with a player of pace and there's a danger they could open us up there should be no question that as long as it's done in a way that doesn't bring that player harm that they should be allowed to become intimately acquainted with the turf.

[Kano]

Consistency is impossible, a pipe dream. Unless we have robots and/or the absolute letter of the law applied for every single incident. But these are humans making the decisions and will always be prone to mistakes through their individual ways of perceiving a single moment.

[Letters]

Of course you'll never get complete consistency but you shouldn't get one ref arbitrarily deeming a certain type of tackle a red card when no others do.

[Niall_Quinn]

This remains a random and unwarranted red as far as I'm concerned. When judged against countless other incidents that occur multiple times in each and every match then there's no way this is a red. If they have a new rule then they haven't been enforcing it. The criteria seems to be based on how spectacular the foul is, not whether the opponent was disadvantaged.

When the keeper has the ball in his hands it's a goal scoring opportunity if he can kick far enough. But there has to be some sanity in that judgement. Through on goal with just the keeper to beat, that's what we've always understood to be a goalscoring opportunity. Last season they used to base the card on whether the player was heading towards or away from the goal, even if he was taken out by the last man. Now we have fouls on the touchline in midfield and it is being called a goal scoring opportunity. Ludicrous.

Same shit happened to Kos last season, or the season before, when he was sent off as the last tackler even though the offence was over near the corner flag. And then I can't recall it happening again. Perhaps these are rules are only designed for us?

But if this is going to be applied evenly from now on then good news, we'll be playing against 4 or 5 opponents by halftime in most games. All those shirt pulls on Alexis when he's trying to break through the middle. All the barges on Theo. All red cards by the new standard. And it's good to know that Costa will be spending most of this season serving bans. He should pick up 10-12 reds this year I should think.

But we all know the reality. There will be no red cards dished out for challenges that cause just as much disadvantage as Xhaka's. What's really happened here is he's been singled out by an overzealous and incompetent ref who has a long track record of getting it wrong.

[Letters]

LETTERS AND NQ IN AGREEING ABOUT SOMETHING SHOCK EXCLUSIVE.

[Power n Glory]

Just watched MOTD hoping for a big discussion on it, but Lineker just said 'a yellow would have sufficed' and nothing else was mentioned. I've always said that tackles like that should be red, but we have suffered many like that and they were only yellow. It just seems wrong that we were on the end of a red card for it, especially when I saw more dangerous ones yesterday that warranted only a yellow, or no card given at all. If Xhaka's was a red card offence, fine, but can we at least see some consistency?

Refs need to be held accountable for their decisions and their should actually be some form of presentation to explain their decisions or interpretation of the rules. It's quite scandalous that MOTD just brushed this off with one sentence. Even if they thought it was worthy of a yellow, how can they just brush it off with no further discussion? It would actually help if pundits took some time to talk about this sort of thing. No idea why it's the fans scrolling through the FA rulebook to interpret the rules and not the pundits. The punditry standards have always been low in this country when it comes to football.

[Niall_Quinn]

Refs need to be held accountable for their decisions and their should actually be some form of presentation to explain their decisions or interpretation of the rules. It's quite scandalous that MOTD just brushed this off with one sentence. Even if they thought it was worthy of a yellow, how can they just brush it off with no further discussion? It would actually help if pundits took some time to talk about this sort of thing. No idea why it's the fans scrolling through the FA rulebook to interpret the rules and not the pundits. The punditry standards have always been low in this country when it comes to football.

No Wayne Rooneys were involved in the incident so no need for a 10 minute segment.

[Letters]

Refs need to be held accountable for their decisions and their should actually be some form of presentation to explain their decisions or interpretation of the rules. It's quite scandalous that MOTD just brushed this off with one sentence. Even if they thought it was worthy of a yellow, how can they just brush it off with no further discussion? It would actually help if pundits took some time to talk about this sort of thing. No idea why it's the fans scrolling through the FA rulebook to interpret the rules and not the pundits. The punditry standards have always been low in this country when it comes to football.

I think this is one thing which grinds my gears most in football. Refs are never, ever accountable. The whole system is set up with the presumption that they get everything right - hence things like you can't appeal a decision if the referee saw it, because if the ref saw it, clearly they got it right. Obviously they're going to make it mistakes and those will highlighted more now we have 5 camera angles and super slow motion, but the number of decisions they get wrong is scandalous and it's never, ever scrutinized.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Refs need to be held accountable for their decisions and their should actually be some form of presentation to explain their decisions or interpretation of the rules. It's quite scandalous that MOTD just brushed this off with one sentence. Even if they thought it was worthy of a yellow, how can they just brush it off with no further discussion? It would actually help if pundits took some time to talk about this sort of thing. No idea why it's the fans scrolling through the FA rulebook to interpret the rules and not the pundits. The punditry standards have always been low in this country when it comes to football.

Hmm depends, whilst i agree there should be a larger format to scrutinise referee decisions and for them to have to justify their decisions. I would argue that the red card was less contentious because it didn't ultimately change the course of the game and MOTD operate under a time frame of what to fit into an hour-hour and a half.

Had the red card been followed by Swansea equalising or the even more contentious dismissal of Aaron Creswell for West Ham against Palace had been followed by a Palace equaliser, i can imagine both incidents would have been put under the microscope.

[Power n Glory]

I think this is one thing which grinds my gears most in football. Refs are never, ever accountable. The whole system is set up with the presumption that they get everything right - hence things like you can't appeal a decision if the referee saw it, because if the ref saw it, clearly they got it right. Obviously they're going to make it mistakes and those will highlighted more now we have 5 camera angles and super slow motion, but the number of decisions they get wrong is scandalous and it's never, ever scrutinized.

It’s pretty poor. With so much TV coverage, they’d be doing themselves a favour trying to explain some of the decisions. Heck, it would also help if the pundits weighed in on some of the rule changes and did their own research. It shouldn’t be an easy retirement job for ex players. When I think of F1, NBA or NFL, the guys they have as pundits know what they’re talking about along with the new regulations. They’re armed to the teeth with stats and history on players and records. Our pundits haven’t got the slightest clue about what’s going on half the time. It’s backpage tabloid talk. Neville is the only one I rate to shake up the standard.

[Penguin]

The rules in Europe have always been harsher but I can't see how it will put us at a disadvantage.

In Europe a tactical foul is a yellow. It would be a disadvantage because there's a major difference in how you play with or without that rule. If it's applied across the board it's easier than trying to completely change your gameplan in one tournament. Especially in this kind of situation where you're making split second decisions on the pitch.


Where are you looking? There's this bit

Q10: Is every DOGSO offence in the penalty now only a caution (YC)?
NO – the Law has only changed for those DOGSO offences in the penalty area where the offender makes an attempt to play the ball or challenge an opponent for the ball. The sending-off (RC) remains for: handball holding, pulling and pushing (as these offences are not an attempt to play the ball) making no attempt to play the ball e.g. a deliberate trip an offence when there was no chance/possibility of the ball being played
But this is in a section about Denial of a Goal Scoring Opportunity, which this clearly wasn't as it was in their half.


It's still a red if the ref considers it a goal scoring opportunity outside of the box. We're looking at a 4 on 2 situation if Xhaka doesn't make that foul. A yellow card or free kick doesn't restore the opportunity so it's a red card. Let's be honest, if Xhaka doesn't commit that foul, they could have scored with that counter.
It's debatable. If a counter attack with a numerical advantage is a goal scoring opportunity then it should always be a goal scoring opportunity. If the refs apply that consistently I have no issue with Xhaka's red. I can see a lot of problems happening in that respect though because there's too much of a grey area and not enough case studies for officials to learn from.


Plus Xhaka jumps off the to make that challenge. Isn't that deemed reckless and out of control? There is a reason why we haven't challenged this one. It's just dumb and blatant. Wenger just needs to have a word with him because we don't usually have players that make such obvious fouls.
Not really because he's always in control. It's not like he's going in two footed with his studs showing. He knows what he's doing - he aims for Barrows boot and clips him with his toe. There's nothing dangerous or malicious about it, it's a tactical foul to stop them from countering. Barrow gets up and starts skipping around the pitch as soon as Xhaka got shown a red.

If anything he's unfortunate. Any other season he would take a yellow and be applauded for making an intelligent foul. Considering the fact that nobody seemed to know about the rule change - not Xhaka, not Wenger, none of the pundits and nobody on this forum (until someone mentioned it on Goals on Sunday), he'll just have to take it on the chin and learn from it. Bit annoying that we'll be used as a case study but there you go. I would have thought that there would be someone at the club going through this tedious stuff with a fine tooth comb before the start of the season but at least it happened in a win.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I'd actually be pretty happy if those sorts of cynical challenges were red cards but they're very rarely given and that in itself makes me think it was a soft one.

This is what it basically boils down to.

Sure it'd actually be good for football for these sort of cynical challenges to be wiped out for good as they disrupt the game and turn into the sort of anti-football shite that Pulis excels at but the arbitrary application of it with Xhaka being the only victim so far of it (thanks a lot of John Moss) is incredibly galling.