Match Reaction v United away (PL, 16/17)

[Munchies]

Just go Arsene

[Globalgunner]

Gonersweb went down for 3 hrs
Arsene, Maccy and Letters out

We were rubbish as usual at OT. Some things never change

[Globalgunner]

Just heard Wenger said us not winning at OT is because of a mental block with the players. What an idiot. Its been 8 years and about 5 squads. The only constant in it all is you old fool!

[Kano]

Rubbish but got a draw when we usually would've lost that game.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MCXmHXL6LI

:haha:

[GP]

Giroud :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We were shocking but funny in the end.

Feck it, bring on Bournemouth. Not arsed about the PSG game really.

[Goonermerree]

Arsenal forward Theo Walcott, speaking to Sky Sports:

"I think we maybe deserved more based on our first half performance but they came at us in the second half and maybe a draw was a fair result.'

Did he watch the same match as us?

[Niall_Quinn]

We spent 30mill plus on a midfielder and he sits on the bench even though Santi is unavailable. Eventually wenger has to snap out of his embarrassing fear dominated selections. We had an obviously out of form Ramsey on that pitch for 90 mins. We had a hopeless Theo providing nothing for 90 mins. We had our striker in midfield. Our playmaker isolated and surrounded by red. Our defenders all over the place.

Remind me. What exactly is it that Wenger does?

[Globalgunner]

We spent 30mill plus on a midfielder and he sits on the bench even though Santi is unavailable. Eventually wenger has to snap out of his embarrassing fear dominated selections. We had an obviously out of form Ramsey on that pitch for 90 mins. We had a hopeless Theo providing nothing for 90 mins. We had our striker in midfield. Our playmaker isolated and surrounded by red. Our defenders all over the place.

Remind me. What exactly is it that Wenger does?

He gets paid

[fakeyank]

Shockingly bad performance. Lucky to get a draw.

Why is Ramsey playing? He should not even be in the squad with performances like that. And what happened to Iwobi? Is he dead?

[Maestro]

Wow that was one terrible performance, really need to start playing well again or as usual this shit will fall apart again

[Marc Overmars]

Another limp effort at Old Trafford to throw on the ever growing pile. We were just pathetic.

Well done to Oxlade and Giroud for getting us out of jail.

Wenger can beat Maureen when it comes to the verbals, but on the pitch the thundercunt has his number for sure. Pretty funny denying him the win today though.

Sort it out Arsenal.

[LDG]

Wasn't much of a suprise really.

Same shit and all that.

Fucking glad for Oli. Top goal. Gets Jenga (pull the wrong one like a retard and it all comes tumbling down) out of jail.

[GP]

Jenga (pull the wrong one like a retard and it all comes tumbling down).

Ooof, 2/10

[LDG]

Ooof, 2/10

I'm hammered :shrug:

[GP]

I'm hammered :shrug:

10/10

[RomfordPele]

Arsenal forward Theo Walcott, speaking to Sky Sports:

"I think we maybe deserved more based on our first half performance but they came at us in the second half and maybe a draw was a fair result.'

Did he watch the same match as us?

I found that interview very disturbing actually as it basically confirms the depths of the complacency at the club.

For Walcott to come off the pitch thinking that was an acceptable performance is the reason why, yet again, we won't win anything this year.

[Letters]

I'm hammered :shrug:

Dad of the year :bow:

[Kano]

I found that interview very disturbing actually as it basically confirms the depths of the complacency at the club.

For Walcott to come off the pitch thinking that was an acceptable performance is the reason why, yet again, we won't win anything this year.

Or, he was talking to a cunt with a microphone

[LDG]

Dad of the year :bow:

Your social skills have come on leaps and bounds.

[Goonermerree]

I found that interview very disturbing actually as it basically confirms the depths of the complacency at the club.

For Walcott to come off the pitch thinking that was an acceptable performance is the reason why, yet again, we won't win anything this year.

Like I said, he wasn't watching the same match as us!!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

I found that interview very disturbing actually as it basically confirms the depths of the complacency at the club.

For Walcott to come off the pitch thinking that was an acceptable performance is the reason why, yet again, we won't win anything this year.

Wenger's interview was far worse. Every tired old cliche in the book and zero answers.

Henry's post match analysis captured the reality of this. On a one-off basis we got a point away from home. In terms of challenging for a title, there's absolutely nothing there.

[Goonermerree]

Wenger's interview was far worse. Every tired old cliche in the book and zero answers.

Henry's post match analysis captured the reality of this. On a one-off basis we got a point away from home. In terms of challenging for a title, there's absolutely nothing there.

What did Henry say?

[fakeyank]

Like I said, he wasn't watching the same match as us!!!!

Agree. He should have known better. He sure didnt play in the game.. thought at least he'd have watched it intently!

[Niall_Quinn]

What did Henry say?

That's what he said. Viewing the game in isolation one point looked okay But he said looking at the performances in general there was no sign anything has changed and that there's not enough ambition to suggest we are any nearer to a title.

He's right. It's what I was saying weeks ago when we were nicking results off pub teams. The general disorganisation in the team today and the inability to react to events on the pitch has been evident all season. Wenger is relying entirely on individual contributions to keep his ship afloat. There's no team there, at least not when the ringleader Cazorla is missing. and when there's no Santi Wenger shits his pants and shuts up shop, reverting to that awful tip tap safety first mentality. Even against the lower teams. Even at home. He's a manager going through the motions.

[Goonermerree]

Agree. He should have known better. He sure didnt play in the game.. thought at least he'd have watched it intently!

You latched on to my dig at Theo.:cheers:

[Goonermerree]

That's what he said. Viewing the game in isolation one point looked okay But he said looking at the performances in general there was no sign anything has changed and that there's not enough ambition to suggest we are any nearer to a title.

He's right. It's what I was saying weeks ago when we were nicking results off pub teams. The general disorganisation in the team today and the inability to react to events on the pitch has been evident all season. Wenger is relying entirely on individual contributions to keep his ship afloat. There's no team there, at least not when the ringleader Cazorla is missing. and when there's no Santi Wenger shits his pants and shuts up shop, reverting to that awful tip tap safety first mentality. Even against the lower teams. Even at home. He's a manager going through the motions.

We were bad against Southampton, Boro, Swansea, Burnley. Anyone else? Great against Chelsea. WE've lucked it a few times this season already. Henry is right.

[Chippy]

We were bad against Southampton, Boro, Swansea, Burnley. Anyone else? Great against Chelsea. WE've lucked it a few times this season already. Henry is right.

I am a "Wenger out" person, however, all the ex pro's are all of a sudden fucking experts on Management! Put up or shut up! Become a full time coach then!

[Power n Glory]

Woeful performance but we at least we didn't lose. Giroud did what he does best. Great header! Good cameo from Ox considering his last performance. He really needs to find some consistency because there is an opening on the left wing if he shows he's capable. Good performance from Cech and Kos as well. Sanchez and Theo were ok. The effort was there but still below par for the pair.

It was woeful stuff from everyone else. Jenks just wasn't overlapping so that had a knock on effect to our attacks down the right. A few occasions we'd see a break on down that side and player expecting to see the overlap with Jenks nowhere to be found. Monreal had bad game as well. Caught sleeping for the goal and almost gave away a penalty.

Over on the over flank, Ramsey was woeful. He'd lose the ball with bad touches, poor passing or just run into his opponent for it to go out of play. We really missed Iwobi. Not being able to play down that left side really messed with our game.

Elneny and Coquelin really struggled. Elneny needs to toughen up and muscle players off the ball more. Coq made a shit load of tackles but needs to step up his distribution. Both of them need to put more pressure on our opponents and not give away so much space. They could have snuffed out the were paying attention.

Ozil was pretty shit. I keep saying it, but he's capable of so much more and we've seen it this season. He can do more than just pass and today we could have done with him dropping back to help the build up play. We're going to struggle in the midfield without Santi.

Good subs from Wenger because they go us the point but his record here is pretty shocking. No idea why we played so badly. Mental block? A good majority of these guys have hardly played this sort of fixture.

[Niall_Quinn]

I am a "Wenger out" person, however, all the ex pro's are all of a sudden fucking experts on Management! Put up or shut up! Become a full time coach then!

Don't think you need to be an expert to spot Wenger's issues. Show people the same thing season after season after season and it doesn't take a genius to twig.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think the line up was quite defensive, Elneny and Coquelin and Ramsey not Iwobi gave me the distinct impression of a side playing not to get beaten first and foremost (the irony being that we had to completely change it up to ensure we didn't).

Ramsey has played like an utter spastic since he's come back from injury. If we could trust the Ox not to flounce around the pitch like a fairy he wouldn't be starting.

Walcott has dropped off and lost the determination and drive this season that make up for his lack of reading of the game

Ozil anonymous.
Elneny was a total Nancy

Monreal needs to be euthanised, Jenkinson was only playing because for some odd reason he's not been shipped out

Petr Cech played well for us today

That was it, no one else.

That said the performance today wasn't as awful as it was against our next oponents. Christ that was awful

[Niall_Quinn]

Woeful performance but we at least we didn't lose. Giroud did what he does best. Great header! Good cameo from Ox considering his last performance. He really needs to find some consistency because there is an opening on the left wing if he shows he's capable. Good performance from Cech and Kos as well. Sanchez and Theo were ok. The effort was there but still below par for the pair.

It was woeful stuff from everyone else. Jenks just wasn't overlapping so that had a knock on effect to our attacks down the right. A few occasions we'd see a break on down that side and player expecting to see the overlap with Jenks nowhere to be found. Monreal had bad game as well. Caught sleeping for the goal and almost gave away a penalty.

Over on the over flank, Ramsey was woeful. He'd lose the ball with bad touches, poor passing or just run into his opponent for it to go out of play. We really missed Iwobi. Not being able to play down that left side really messed with our game.

Elneny and Coquelin really struggled. Elneny needs to toughen up and muscle players off the ball more. Coq made a shit load of tackles but needs to step up his distribution. Both of them need to put more pressure on our opponents and not give away so much space. They could have snuffed out the were paying attention.

Ozil was pretty shit. I keep saying it, but he's capable of so much more and we've seen it this season. He can do more than just pass and today we could have done with him dropping back to help the build up play. We're going to struggle in the midfield without Santi.

Good subs from Wenger because they go us the point but his record here is pretty shocking. No idea why we played so badly. Mental block? A good majority of these guys have hardly played this sort of fixture.

Agreed, superb effort from Bif on the goal. As for Ox, his inconsistency and randomness was just the ticket in a game where 22 robots had been plodding around for 80 mins. When it's a stalemate then any fool of a manager who isn't just turning up for the point knows you have to introduce something different. Trouble is, Wenger is a fool who was just turning up for the point. A shocking and shameful shit show from this tired old loser, again.

His subs weren't good, even though the old goat tried to take credit. Bif was obvious even to an idiot like Wenger. And he brought Ox on at full back which showed Wenger up as being unprepared. Generously you could say it was an unorthodox moment of inspiration but this is Wenger we are talking about so that's not even possible. Fortunately there wasn't much time left and Ox did what he usually does when asked to defend, he ran up the other end of the pitch. With good results this time. But of course Wenger should have reacted way, way before but instead he sat on his arse as always. The bloke's a total fraud and he's been exposed here again, for the 300th, 400th time. Roll on his next contract so we can keep watching this over and over and over.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think the line up was quite defensive, Elneny and Coquelin and Ramsey not Iwobi gave me the distinct impression of a side playing not to get beaten first and foremost (the irony being that we had to completely change it up to ensure we didn't).

Ramsey has played like an utter spastic since he's come back from injury. If we could trust the Ox not to flounce around the pitch like a fairy he wouldn't be starting.

Walcott has dropped off and lost the determination and drive this season that make up for his lack of reading of the game

Ozil anonymous.
Elneny was a total Nancy

Monreal needs to be euthanised, Jenkinson was only playing because for some odd reason he's not been shipped out

Petr Cech played well for us today

That was it, no one else.

That said the performance today wasn't as awful as it was against our next oponents. Christ that was awful

You mean PSG, where we nail the second place finish in the CL group and then draw Barca? Agreed.

Okay, so maybe an exaggeration. Maybe it will be Bayern.

Ozil played great in the first 20 mins, trying to make things happen. He was really very good. Then Maureen made a few changes and Ozil was marked out of it. Mainly because not one fucker gave him any support or outlets, except of on occasion our striker who had to come back into midfield to get involved.

That was amateurville all the way today. How Wenger can walk away from a performance like that without everybody in the game complaining the emperor is buck naked is a mystery that may never be solved. It's as if he has hypnotised the world.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My point is the performance of the team was worse in Paris, we offered more in attack in Paris but we fell to pieces every time they had the ball.

They have something in common, neither today or PSG were hard earned points...they were flukes

[Niall_Quinn]

My point is the performance of the team was worse in Paris, we offered more in attack in Paris but we fell to pieces every time they had the ball.

They have something in common, neither today or PSG were hard earned points...they were flukes

I like the way we bounce back against Bournemouth. For me it will indicate the title charge is back on.

[Letters]

I like the way we bounce back against Bournemouth. For me it will indicate the title charge is back on.

If we'd won today and against Spurs would you think the title charge was on?

[Xhaka Can’t]

That's what he said. Viewing the game in isolation one point looked okay But he said looking at the performances in general there was no sign anything has changed and that there's not enough ambition to suggest we are any nearer to a title.

He's right. It's what I was saying weeks ago when we were nicking results off pub teams. The general disorganisation in the team today and the inability to react to events on the pitch has been evident all season. Wenger is relying entirely on individual contributions to keep his ship afloat. There's no team there, at least not when the ringleader Cazorla is missing. and when there's no Santi Wenger shits his pants and shuts up shop, reverting to that awful tip tap safety first mentality. Even against the lower teams. Even at home. He's a manager going through the motions.

His motions are shit.

I can't get my head around how awful we were today.

[Marc Overmars]

I would have been genuinely surprised had we played well today. That's how little faith I had in us turning up.

Shows how average this United team are, they had us on the ropes for pretty much the whole 2nd half and couldn't really muster up the chances their territorial advantage deserved.

A Fergie team would have smashed us out of the park.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

God damn it GW for dying when you did!!!!! Letters OUT! 8 million a year for this crap?

Anyway, I decided to go into Mugabe Media Lockdown (only checked the score once the match had ended) for this match because the last few matches I've seen live we haven't performed well in. Good to see it really helped. :rolleyes:

Anyway having caught up with it since then, it's pretty clear we were fucking abysmal and lucky to get out with a draw. Kind of expected a lethargic performance after the Spurs game and coming of an international break but still pissed it happened.

God we miss Santi so much. It's exactly like last season ...... once we lose him the entire team and play goes to complete shit. Sort it out Wenger.

I suppose a 1 - 1 at Old Trafford isn't that bad of a result but after drawing with the spuds last time and seeing us fall further behind some of our competitors it's pretty frustrating, especially when Utd weren't even that special despite all the dosh they've spent.

[hobson's choice]

What is the point of Ramsey, other than to troll the team.

He literally disrupts everything

I've never a seen a player at this level, be so useless for a team. It's almost as if his teammates just say fuck it, when they see him in the starting 11.

Cause no matter what Wenger Won't take him out

[Chippy]

If we'd won today and against Spurs would you think the title charge was on?

Completely irrelevant Letters. We didn't win either game. If my aunt had a cock, she would be my uncle!

[Penguin]

Giroud's goal was our only shot on target and it was on the 89th minute. Not good enough. It's not the first time Mourinho has completely nullified Wenger's tactics. That pathetic cunt has Arsene in his pocket and Wenger has done nothing to get out of it after all these years.

Ozil may as well not have been on the pitch. I want to see more fight in him, not to give up as soon as someone puts a bit of pressure on him.

The defending was shocking too. Monreal is starting to lose 1v1s against every other team we play against now and should have conceded a stupid penalty today. I genuinely think he's finished now. Elneny and Coquelin should be shielding the back four but we saw very little of that yesterday. They left huge gaps in the centre all game and what do you know, Mata ended up scoring from one of those gaps.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah Monreal is a concern. He's been roasted one too many times now this season, he needs a bit of a kick up the arse. Gibbs has been in the wilderness for long enough and deserves a chance again.

[Gooner23]

The only mental block is Wenger's.

Agree on Monreal, wouldn't be against Gibbs having a run in the side.

[adzzzbatch]

What is the point of Ramsey, other than to troll the team.

He literally disrupts everything

I've never a seen a player at this level, be so useless for a team. It's almost as if his teammates just say fuck it, when they see him in the starting 11.

Cause no matter what Wenger Won't take him out

Wenger is doing Ramsey no favours by playing him out of position all the time he needs to play in the centre.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The only mental block is Wenger's.

Agree on Monreal, wouldn't be against Gibbs having a run in the side.

at the risk of sounding bitter i've been saying this for ages

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Probably should have just signed a new left back then because Gibbs is worse.

[Niall_Quinn]

Monreal was fine last season, very solid. But if he's lost a yard of pace this season then he's definitely going to struggle in an Arsenal defence because Wenger's defensive style is:

Bus...
Defender...
Throw latter under former.

The way we defend is suicidal. Huge spaces left on the flanks that require lightening pace and awareness to get back and cover in the nick of time. Hence one yard of pace lost equals end of the road. Monreal looked awful when he first arrived (most likely he was shocked at the cavalier and disorganised manner in which we defend), but then he found a way to get to grips with the craziness. He'll likely get his form back and it's too early to bin him. He's not the main issue anyway. Our 30 mill guy Mustafi has looked damn ropey over the last few games.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger is doing Ramsey no favours by playing him out of position all the time he needs to play in the centre.

We came to the same conclusion last season and he had his chance when Cazorla got injured. I have no faith in his ability to play in the centre either. Regardless of where he plays on the pitch, first rule of thumb should be to protect the ball. Yesterday, he was unable to do that and it kept costing us possession down. If he'd have played through the middle, I fear he'd have cost us a goal because Chelsea were closing in on us quickly. Besides that, he's also not that good when it comes to ball distribution and lacks discipline when with his positioning. That's another serious flaw to his game. He'll have to work harder to earn his place back in the middle.

Iwobi's not even a typical winger, he looks more like a number 10 to me. But because he's able to protect the ball so well and keep the play going, he slots in out wide. I'm running out of ideas where Ramsey can play when he's playing like this. Wenger really isn't helping him be constantly selecting him. He needs a long period on the bench just to know his place isn't safe and that he needs to fight to get in.

[Kano]

Top 6 Mini League so far:

Liverpool, 8pts (played 4, lost 0)
Tottenham, 5pts (3, 0)
Arsenal, 5pts (4, 1)
Man City, 3pts (2, 1)
Chelsea, 3pts (3, 2)
Man Utd, 2pts (4, 2)

[adzzzbatch]

Top 6 Mini League so far:

Liverpool, 8pts (played 4, lost 0)
Arsenal, 5pts (3, 0)
Tottenham, 5pts (3, 0)
Man City, 3pts (2, 1)
Chelsea, 3pts (3, 2)
Man Utd, 2pts (4, 2)

We lost to liverpool :unsure:

[Kano]

I have no idea what you're talking about :whistle:

[Letters]

Completely irrelevant Letters. We didn't win either game. If my aunt had a cock, she would be my uncle!

It is relevant. NQ and others, with some justification, think we can't win the league because Wenger.
That's a valid viewpoint but I'm wondering whether wins in either/both of those games would have started to change that viewpoint or whether they'd just have expected us to cock something up further down the line regardless.

[Globalgunner]

It is relevant. NQ and others, with some justification, think we can't win the league because Wenger.
That's a valid viewpoint but I'm wondering whether wins in either/both of those games would have started to change that viewpoint or whether they'd just have expected us to cock something up further down the line regardless.

11 years since we last won it. There is a clue in there somewhere. We always find a way to klutz it up.

[Power n Glory]

It is relevant. NQ and others, with some justification, think we can't win the league because Wenger.
That's a valid viewpoint but I'm wondering whether wins in either/both of those games would have started to change that viewpoint or whether they'd just have expected us to cock something up further down the line regardless.

You know the answer to that already. Nobody will believe until we've actually gone and done it. We've had every single scenario under the sun with this team. Experienced players, money to spend, new assistant coach, new defenders, gone on to win the FA Cup twice...the springboard effect we've all hoped for just hasn't happened.

[Kano]

It is relevant. NQ and others, with some justification, think we can't win the league because Wenger.
That's a valid viewpoint but I'm wondering whether wins in either/both of those games would have started to change that viewpoint or whether they'd just have expected us to cock something up further down the line regardless.

I can't remember anyone saying we could win the league under Wenger at the start of the season, pretty sure that included you too Letters, which is why you were saying we need someone new. I don't think anyone will reassess things unless we are in with a realistic shout at the start of April. We've been in similar positions quite a few times at this point, even up to Feb/March. For now though I'm happy enough seeing us in the mix and taking points where would typically lose them. There does seem to be more resilience in this team but whether that translates into real killer mentality later in the season, I've no idea. That said, no one team has shown they are ready to run off with the league yet either.

[Niall_Quinn]

It is relevant. NQ and others, with some justification, think we can't win the league because Wenger.
That's a valid viewpoint but I'm wondering whether wins in either/both of those games would have started to change that viewpoint or whether they'd just have expected us to cock something up further down the line regardless.

I'd have settled for strong performances in BOTH games and clinching the top spot in our CL group. But I already knew we wouldn't get that because I'd seen how weak the performances were in non-pressure fixtures against mediocre opponents leading up to tis period. I'd also seen what we are capable of when we played the chavs. So what I was looking for was some indication that Wenger could take the positives and feed those, rather than fall back on consolidation and his cautious, averages approach to the season as a whole.

The old saying goes take each game as it comes, but Wenger doesn't do that. He takes each game as a part of an overall season where the season's goals are paramount. That might sound sensible but it constantly gives him an out for the poor performances, the lack of ambition and fight in key fixtures. Because there's always the next game in the sequence to make amends, to bring the average back on track. To secure that overall 4th or higher place result. I don't believe champions operate on that level. Champions peak for each challenge and every competitive event is viewed as a challenged with its own merits. Then when you take the combination of these individual challenges you end up with a sequence of performances that complete your season.

So the performances are hugely important indicators. I don't see much value at all in nicking 3 points off a Hull or a Watford because if you had to nick the points in the first place then you have a problem. That's not to downplay the challenge of each game in a competitive league, on the contrary, being up for each of these individual challenges and not taking opponents lightly and always being prepared regardless of the opposition, not fielding insultingly weakened teams, not downplaying the significance of a competitive challenge simply because that challenge occurs in a minor cup, not making these assumptions that Wenger makes and almost always backfire on him, that's what builds a competitive season.

Right now we have a good enough team to secure a top 4 spot without that team having to be competitive at the level you would expect of serious champions. I think most of these players are spoiled kids and need to be led, guided even forced into being at the peak of their abilities at the right moments. That's the job of the manager but if he has a philosophy of, oh well, never mind, there's always next week, then that's going to transmit right through the team and the individuals. Thankfully we have key individuals that can pull our arses out of the fore when Wenger has inflicted complacency in the majority. Alexis with his lung bursting efforts (sounds like he wants to leave and I'm not surprised), Koscielny with that extra sprint and stretch to get that last ditch tackle in and just about prop up a defensive unit that Wenger so terribly neglects.

Wenger is the problem. This little patch of games was a test and we have failed in the same manner as all his teams have failed in the last decade. It doesn't really matter who is in the team because enough of them seem to thrive on the philosophy of the man in charge. There's always tomorrow. This is why we often have to go behind in a game to suddenly play. This is why we can go 80 minutes without a shot on goal and then suddenly, as if by magic, we can play. This is the basis for our glorious runs that just about see us sneak back into the top 4. Here is why we can really stick it to the very top teams from time to time and ALMOST beat them, coming out instead with a glorious failure. It's all flattery to deceive because underneath it all there's Wenger's philosophy and it never goes away.

This season is done, we just saw the exit polls and now we just have to wait for the counting. We'll get top 4 but it won't be the top spot because we don't have a manager who can drive the players at that competitive level. Hell, he can't even compete with Ranieri at Leicester City FFS! That's not to say only Wenger is in this boat. There are plenty of frauds being paid sickening amounts of cash in return for their complacency. But only one of them gets to sit in the same spot taking the piss for two decades.

[Goonermerree]

I'll say we can win the league when we're parading the trophy around North London on an open top bus. We even managed to finish 4th when the title race was deemed to be a two horse race. I used to think we were best of the rest in terms of money spent and available, then up pops Leicester to do what we could have done when the other clubs were not their best. We topped the league for most of the season not long ago and slipped to 3rd or 4th.

Right now the league doesn't look too bad, but I'm not at all convinced by most of our performances yet.

[Letters]

Agree with much of the above. I'm content enough while we're in the mix but while I think we have the squad to win it I'm not sure we have the mentality and that does come down to Wenger. I'm a bit conflicted about yesterday's result, on the one hand it wasn't a bad point and given our record up there and that it was a bit of a smash and grab I'll take it, on the other hand a win up there and/or against Spurs would have been 'a statement'. That said, had we won them people would still be anticipating a balls up later down the line.

I don't think any of us will truly believe until we've got the trophy in our mitts, I think we have a chance but there are 5 or 6 teams who all seem pretty strong this year so it's going to be an interesting race this year. I don't see anyone running away with it.

[Coney]

http://news.arseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Wenger-Mourinho-Old-Trafford-2016.jpg
Caption. F U Moronio

[Goonermerree]

http://news.arseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Wenger-Mourinho-Old-Trafford-2016.jpg


I really am a good manager, we didn't lose. Woohoo

[Niall_Quinn]

I really am a good manager, we didn't lose. Woohoo

Which one?

[Goonermerree]

Which one?

Take your pick. Actually, there's only one guy going woohoo!

[rodders]

Tactically Wenger in dark ages

[Ollie the Optimist]

The only enjoyment in football at the moment is things that make me laugh.

Watching Mourinho completely lose it over being denied a penalty and then conceding in the last minute to Wenger is bloody funny.


Therefore it is a good point.

[fakeyank]

The only mental block is Wenger's.

Agree on Monreal, wouldn't be against Gibbs having a run in the side.

Dont think Monreal is bad or has gotten worse. He was horribly exposed by that donkey dressed as a player on the left aka Ramsey. Ramsey has no positional sense or an iota of knowledge where his teammates are. He must do something right to or with Wenger to earn his starting spot.

[Power n Glory]

Agree with Blink, I have no faith in Gibbs doing any better. Has a very bad habit of getting caught out of position and switching off. He may have learned since being dropped but I think Monreal has been left to cope with a lot o his own since Sanchez isn't there anymore.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But it's not just a case of oh he's not getting enough protection, he gets turned so easily by pacey opponents.....the amount of goals where the attack begins on our left hand side just isn't a coincidence.

Gibbs isn't perfect, but actually from what I've seen this season I've been far more impressed with Gibbs and he merits at least a chance (you could be right, in the long term he might not be any better but then for me it would make it incumbent for Wenger to go into the transfer market for a left back because it's clearly a vulnerable area - he won't of course) having seen him he gets forward more which i think gives us far more cohesiveness in attack, and he has shown a good burst of pace at tracking back and what's more i have seen him get beaten by his man far less.

For me the reason Gibbs lost his place is because he is far more injury prone, but if nothing else when we are playing PSG on Wednesday and we saw the way Aurier tormented Monreal it would be absurd not to play Gibbs in that game instead.

[selassie]

Agree with much of the above. I'm content enough while we're in the mix but while I think we have the squad to win it I'm not sure we have the mentality and that does come down to Wenger. I'm a bit conflicted about yesterday's result, on the one hand it wasn't a bad point and given our record up there and that it was a bit of a smash and grab I'll take it, on the other hand a win up there and/or against Spurs would have been 'a statement'. That said, had we won them people would still be anticipating a balls up later down the line.

I don't think any of us will truly believe until we've got the trophy in our mitts, I think we have a chance but there are 5 or 6 teams who all seem pretty strong this year so it's going to be an interesting race this year. I don't see anyone running away with it.

I don't really see any difference with this team between this season and last season. Slightly different personal but the same old flaws.

I think we'll scrape top 4 this season, I honestly can't see us finishing above any of Liverpool, Chelsea or City.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't really see any difference with this team between this season and last season. Slightly different personal but the same old flaws.

I think we'll scrape top 4 this season, I honestly can't see us finishing above any of Liverpool, Chelsea or City.

Hard to tell, i think every team i've seen this season has a lot of flaws

Liverpool as good as they are in an attacking sense showed saturday they can misfire and if a team had shown more ambition than Southampton did they would have taken all three points

Chelsea will come a cropper sooner rather than later playing three at the back

City's players don't seem to have adapted to playing the way Guardiola wants them to play.

Spurs seem to find it very hard to turn draws into wins even though they are incredibly hard to beat.

Although i think players should take responsibility for their own performances, i do agree with NQ that Wenger is a drag factor he comes out about the players having a psychological block playing at places like Old Trafford but doesn't seem to understand why this is even though it's happened for years upon years no matter what players we have in the side (it's you Arsene, your square peg in round hole team selection and you not getting the best performances from players because they don't get confidence from you in training or seeing you sit there on the touchline, sagging away in your Michelin man straitjacket)

If we do only scrape top four and that is enough for the board to give wenger a new contract, than i think then it is incumbent for fans to look at themselves before renewing their season tickets and think....what am i getting out of this?.....why am i paying so much when i know it will always be the same.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hard to tell, i think every team i've seen this season has a lot of flaws

Liverpool as good as they are in an attacking sense showed saturday they can misfire and if a team had shown more ambition than Southampton did they would have taken all three points

Chelsea will come a cropper sooner rather than later playing three at the back

City's players don't seem to have adapted to playing the way Guardiola wants them to play.

Spurs seem to find it very hard to turn draws into wins even though they are incredibly hard to beat.

Although i think players should take responsibility for their own performances, i do agree with NQ that Wenger is a drag factor he comes out about the players having a psychological block playing at places like Old Trafford but doesn't seem to understand why this is even though it's happened for years upon years no matter what players we have in the side (it's you Arsene, your square peg in round hole team selection and you not getting the best performances from players because they don't get confidence from you in training or seeing you sit there on the touchline, sagging away in your Michelin man straitjacket)

If we do only scrape top four and that is enough for the board to give wenger a new contract, than i think then it is incumbent for fans to look at themselves before renewing their season tickets and think....what am i getting out of this?.....why am i paying so much when i know it will always be the same.

And that's ultimately what TV has done to football, isn't it? Because many of the home fans will be able to answer themselves by saying they get a nice day out, in a flashy stadium, with a nice meal and a drink after, and what a jolly time was had by all - shame about the result but that wasn't the point of going.

Marketing has done football and Wenger and the board, like most managers and boards, are now playing for the money. Afraid to lose, the connection between money and success has been blurred because you can now earn millions and guarantee millions more by finishing 4th bottom. From thereon up it's a gravy train. Grab that top 4 spot and add a bunch more zeros. The fans are consumers so they'll pitch up anyway. If the English won't buy the shirts then the Asians will, just spend a few million buying a Japanese or Chinese guy and stick him on the bench. Or fly him east to do interviews.

Wenger probably feels he's doing the right thing by ditching the football and focusing on the cash. Everyone else is doing it so why not?

I wonder what happened inside Leicester last season to make things different? Whatever they had last year, we need now. I don't think we are looking for it though.

[Niall_Quinn]

Watching Walcott's interview again, it's a joke isn't it? How can he have been satisfied with that result and that performance, especially his own performance (or lack of it)? Are his standards really that low? It's totally unacceptable for him to hijack the past and claim a draw at Old Trafford is a decent result. Sure thing, it was a decent result when you were up against Ferguson, Keane and Co. But scraping a point in the last minute on the back of a disorganised joke of a performance and against a shitty Utd team led by a bloke who specialises in disharmony and chaos? Give it a rest Theo.

[Goonermerree]

Reading what Walott said made me very angry.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And that's ultimately what TV has done to football, isn't it? Because many of the home fans will be able to answer themselves by saying they get a nice day out, in a flashy stadium, with a nice meal and a drink after, and what a jolly time was had by all - shame about the result but that wasn't the point of going.

Marketing has done football and Wenger and the board, like most managers and boards, are now playing for the money. Afraid to lose, the connection between money and success has been blurred because you can now earn millions and guarantee millions more by finishing 4th bottom. From thereon up it's a gravy train. Grab that top 4 spot and add a bunch more zeros. The fans are consumers so they'll pitch up anyway. If the English won't buy the shirts then the Asians will, just spend a few million buying a Japanese or Chinese guy and stick him on the bench. Or fly him east to do interviews.

Wenger probably feels he's doing the right thing by ditching the football and focusing on the cash. Everyone else is doing it so why not?

I wonder what happened inside Leicester last season to make things different? Whatever they had last year, we need now. I don't think we are looking for it though.

I think the answer is simpler than all that, Wenger is a conservative......whilst i'm sure for the board and for Mr Gazidis and Kroenke they are quite happy to have a non risk taker at the helm because it guarantees the cash flow. For Wenger he knows that sticking to what he knows delivers the bare minimum, and although I think he wants to achieve more, i think his rigid tendencies prevent him from doing enough, sticking his neck out and being innovative enough to push the boat out and go for it.

That kind of innovation, the desire to scrub the white board and go back to the beginning is just never going to appeal to a man of his age (if i was 67 i'm not sure i would either). Wenger is in a trap of his own making, afraid to retire and especially afraid not to go out in a blaze of glory.....but he's too trapped in his own way of thinking to make his eventual departure anything other than anti-climatic at the best.

[Gooner23]

Watching Walcott's interview again, it's a joke isn't it? How can he have been satisfied with that result and that performance, especially his own performance (or lack of it)? Are his standards really that low? It's totally unacceptable for him to hijack the past and claim a draw at Old Trafford is a decent result. Sure thing, it was a decent result when you were up against Ferguson, Keane and Co. But scraping a point in the last minute on the back of a disorganised joke of a performance and against a shitty Utd team led by a bloke who specialises in disharmony and chaos? Give it a rest Theo.

Not sure why you're that surprised, Theo has always been one to tow the party line..

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Watching Walcott's interview again, it's a joke isn't it? How can he have been satisfied with that result and that performance, especially his own performance (or lack of it)? Are his standards really that low? It's totally unacceptable for him to hijack the past and claim a draw at Old Trafford is a decent result. Sure thing, it was a decent result when you were up against Ferguson, Keane and Co. But scraping a point in the last minute on the back of a disorganised joke of a performance and against a shitty Utd team led by a bloke who specialises in disharmony and chaos? Give it a rest Theo.

On one hand, there is no doubt that United needed the win far more than we did. And i would have taken the draw before kick off (as defeats are always psychologically more damaging and we know full well that Wenger's sides are confidence sides).

On the other hand as you say there is very little to be proud about in a performance where a draw was stolen rather than earnt, it's all very well setting the team up to be gritty and defensive by the personnel you pick but if the team don't seem to have a defined game plan and for all the possession seem actually scared to commit players forward against a low quality United defence than you have to ask what was the point.

I always think even when chances are created even Wenger has admitted that we are frightened to take them, we either snatch at them or we make one more pass to a team mate. Wenger talks a lot about "belief" of his players, well who exactly is giving them this so-called belief?.....it's not coming from within and he sure as hell isn't giving it to them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ever watch Bill Hicks?


By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing…kill yourself. It’s just a little thought; I’m just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day they’ll take root – I don’t know. You try, you do what you can.

(Kill yourself.)

Seriously though, if you are, do.

Aaah, no really. There’s no rationalisation for what you do and you are Satan’s little helpers. Okay – kill yourself.

Seriously. You are the ruiner of all things good.

Seriously.

No this is not a joke. You’re [going], “There’s going to be a joke coming.” There’s no fucking joke coming. You are Satan’s spawn filling the world with bile and garbage. You are fucked and you are fucking us. Kill yourself. It’s the only way to save your fucking soul. Kill yourself

Planting seeds.

I know all the marketing people are going, “He’s doing a joke…” There’s no joke here whatsoever. Suck a tail-pipe, fucking hang yourself, borrow a gun from a Yank friend – I don’t care how you do it. Rid the world of your evil fucking machinations. (Machi…) Whatever, you know what I mean.

I know what all the marketing people are thinking right now too: “Oh, you know what Bill’s doing? He’s going for that anti-marketing dollar. That’s a good market. He’s very smart.”

Oh man, I am not doing that, you fucking, evil scumbags!

“Ooh, you know what Bill’s doing now? He’s going for the righteous indignation dollar. That’s a big dollar. A lot of people are feeling that indignation. We’ve done research – huge market. He’s doing a good thing.”

Godammit, I’m not doing that, you scum-bags! Quit putting a goddamn dollar sign on every fucking thing on this planet.

“Ooh, the anger dollar. Huge. Huge in times of recession. Giant market. Bill’s very bright to do that.”

God, I’m just caught in a fucking web.

“Ooh, the trapped dollar, big dollar, huge dollar. Good market – look at our research. We see that many people feel trapped. If we play to that and then separate them into the trapped dollar…”

How do you live like that? And I bet you sleep like fucking babies at night, don’t you?

“What didya do today, honey?”

“Oh, we made ah, we made ah arsenic a childhood food now, goodnight.” [snores] “Yeah we just said, you know, is your baby really too loud? You know?” [snores] “Yeah, you know the mums will love it.” [snores]

Sleep like fucking children, don’t ya. This is your world, isn’t it?

[Niall_Quinn]

Not sure why you're that surprised, Theo has always been one to tow the party line..

Was hoping after all this time he might have developed a bit of personal pride.

[Niall_Quinn]

On one hand, there is no doubt that United needed the win far more than we did. And i would have taken the draw before kick off (as defeats are always psychologically more damaging and we know full well that Wenger's sides are confidence sides).

On the other hand as you say there is very little to be proud about in a performance where a draw was stolen rather than earnt, it's all very well setting the team up to be gritty and defensive by the personnel you pick but if the team don't seem to have a defined game plan and for all the possession seem actually scared to commit players forward against a low quality United defence than you have to ask what was the point.

I always think even when chances are created even Wenger has admitted that we are frightened to take them, we either snatch at them or we make one more pass to a team mate. Wenger talks a lot about "belief" of his players, well who exactly is giving them this so-called belief?.....it's not coming from within and he sure as hell isn't giving it to them.

If you recall, it's the fans' fault.

There's even something in that though. The lethargy in this club has trickled down and seeped into every nook and cranny.

[Goonermerree]

Was hoping after all this time he might have developed a bit of personal pride.

To say he thought a draw was a fair result was laughable.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If you recall, it's the fans' fault.

There's even something in that though. The lethargy in this club has trickled down and seeped into every nook and cranny.

If there is no mass refusal to renew season tickets if we do scrape in the top four and the board see that as enough to give Wenger another contract....you'd have to question what is going on with Fans.

And yes i think everyone is risk adverse, the fans don't want to take a stand and want the comfortable life of paying through the nose to keep up the grim tradition of match day attendance. The manager is risk adverse for the reasons i have described and the board are risk adverse because they know they are getting a certain standard with Wenger and don't want to risk falling below it in order to pierce the malaise and push for more.

I have less contempt for the fans though because it's only their own money they are wasting.

[Niall_Quinn]

All of last season's arguments rebooted. And the season before that. And the one before that...

I have to keep reminding myself about my attitude and expectations this time around. Don't worry about something that probably isn't going to change for years. Hold out and enjoy the 3 or 4 decent performances we'll put in this year as a team and the scattered individual performances that are worth watching. Is that worth £2K? not a fucking chance! But considering I'm pirating the shit out of the whole season, I guess I'm getting a good deal. Just need a prawn sandwich now and I'll happily eat it because no way am I getting wound up like those AFTV performers any more.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

All of last season's arguments rebooted. And the season before that. And the one before that...

I have to keep reminding myself about my attitude and expectations this time around. Don't worry about something that probably isn't going to change for years. Hold out and enjoy the 3 or 4 decent performances we'll put in this year as a team and the scattered individual performances that are worth watching. Is that worth £2K? not a fucking chance! But considering I'm pirating the shit out of the whole season, I guess I'm getting a good deal. Just need a prawn sandwich now and I'll happily eat it because no way am I getting wound up like those AFTV performers any more.


It makes a difference in a year like this because of the contract issue. It gives the board and Wenger less scope to spin if the performances are no better.

In 2014 we had the FA cup and the promise of saying "well see how Wenger does now he has money to spend", now we know the FA cup will not be anywhere near enough and the money has not made a difference. It will be harder for the board to excuse giving Wenger a contract, and just as hard for Wenger to justify taking it given that we know that this season and the previous two things will turn ugly far quicker than they ever used to.

From my point of view, i decided at the end of last season not to renew my red membership, snub any offers to go and watch games from friends/work mates who have season tickets and can't go. So from my point of view i am not even giving the club the insignifcant amount of money i used to, so my response if we are told in May will be let's take the merry go round for another spin will be a resigned shrug of the shoulders

[Kano]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37719002

Spot on tbf. The sooner the better. 4 more years would be great.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37719002

Spot on tbf. The sooner the better. 4 more years would be great.

Just as well no-one cares what David Seaman thinks

There is a point to this article though and it explains a lot, i think what is happening at Manchester United has made both the fans and the board petrified of change.

What seems to be forgotten though is that it was Ferguson himself who caused a lot of the problems, he handed over a squad that really was unfit for purpose. The last title they had was all based on getting one good season out of Robin Van Persie at his peak, since then Van Persie has gone and Rooney had rapidly deteriorated as a player.

[Kano]

Kroenke was lavish in his praise recently too, all looking positive on that front

Why not keep Wenger, fuck it. Could be worse, could be better. There's more than enough retards online that care enough to cry and whinge at every single thing that goes wrong. I'll let them have the cardiacs about it now. It's no longer life or death for me, just something I can enjoy and come back to every week. New manager or not, it won't alter my involvement, so sign up Wenger by all means.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Kroenke was lavish in his praise recently too, all looking positive on that front

Why not keep Wenger, fuck it. Could be worse, could be better. There's more than enough retards online that care enough to cry and whinge at every single thing that goes wrong. I'll let them have the cardiacs about it now. It's no longer life or death for me, just something I can enjoy and come back to every week. New manager or not, it won't alter my involvement, so sign up Wenger by all means.

The issue is that it's kicking the matter into the long grass, do they imagine if Wenger is so great that replacing him is going to get any easier the longer they leave it?.

I would probably make more effort to watch Arsenal if i thought there was a glimmer of hope involved, at the moment the right parties are making the right noises because this season hasn't been a disaster thus far. By this time last season we had lost seven games in all competitions (having played only one game more) so it is hard for their to be more than utterances of discontent (that said even the police academy cast of Arsenal TV are not being taken for fools, they aren't seeing change and know that claiming otherwise is setting yourself up for a fall).

If this season goes like last season (finishing 2nd being a ridiculously deceptive position for a season of underachievement) than it will be interesting to see what Wenger does, when Kroenke like you say lavishes praises on Wenger it's a Pontius Pilate act.....they don't want to take the responsibility for who the manager is and they want it to be Wenger who chooses whether he goes or stays, and I would love to see the smug complacent grins wiped off their faces if Wenger decides he's had enough of the bad atmosphere when things aren't going well and goes.

As much as Wenger himself is just as responsible for what's going on, the board and the owner are more than happy to have him as a patsy.

[Marc Overmars]

I've accepted that he's going to sign a new deal. I did think he'd walk but I just don't see it anymore. I'm beyond the point caring now though, we need to move on from him but he'll go when he and only he decides the time is right. I'm not going to waste my energy anymore bemoaning something that's been discussed for at least 5 years. We know he's past it but nothing is going to be done about it. That's our club for you.

[GP]

To say he thought a draw was a fair result was laughable.

We scored one, they scored one.

Seems fair to me.

[fakeyank]

I've accepted that he's going to sign a new deal. I did think he'd walk but I just don't see it anymore. I'm beyond the point caring now though, we need to move on from him but he'll go when he and only he decides the time is right. I'm not going to waste my energy anymore bemoaning something that's been discussed for at least 5 years. We know he's past it but nothing is going to be done about it. That's our club for you.

Something will be done when the fans will do something about it. When 70% of the crowd still treat Wenger like he is a saint who can do no wrong, it is futile just blaming the board.

[Marc Overmars]

Something will be done when the fans will do something about it. When 70% of the crowd still treat Wenger like he is a saint who can do no wrong, it is futile just blaming the board.

I feel we need to move on from him, like plenty of others do, but I sure as hell don't care enough about the situation to do something tangible about it.

Those who feel strongly enough about it should protest and wage war on the club but they don't, because the truth is Arsenal fans are as much in a state of malaise as the club.

[Letters]

Only when people stop going en masse will things change.
That said, if we had the start so far under a new manager no-one would be whining. But I do understand why people are.

[mastermind84]

I don't really see any difference with this team between this season and last season. Slightly different personal but the same old flaws.

I think we'll scrape top 4 this season, I honestly can't see us finishing above any of Liverpool, Chelsea or City.
The manager is still the same.