CL: Arsenal v Paris Saint-Germain Reaction - Home

[Munchies]

Wenker Out

Shit performance after shit performance.

Getting dominated for the whole game.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

:lol:

Not arsed.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Shitbuckets. A win would have guranteed top place as even a loss against Basel wouldn't be enough for PSG to beat a superior head to head record. Now we have to hope that Ludograts get something in Paris whilst we do the business in Switzerland.

Once again we bottle'd it. Shit performance apart from a brief 20 minute spell at the start of the second half.

Oh well, bring on Barca and going out in the last 16 for the 7th year in a row. I don't know why we bother tbh.

[Munchies]

Arsenal's potential Round-of-16 CL opponents as it stands:

Barcelona
Atletico Madrid
Borussia Dortmund
Juventus
Monaco
Benfica

[Xhaka Can’t]

Kerrrrrching!!!!

[topgun]

Wenker Out

Shit performance after shit performance.

Getting dominated for the whole game.

Well we all know why don't we.:fury:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger can't help himself so there's no chance he can help the team.

Inexplicable team selection that resulted in the inevitable shitty performance. No energy in the team at all, they just stood there and watched the match taking place around them. Luckily Cavani is as hyped as shrek. It looked like we settled for the draw in the end. That typifies Wenger. Bring on two attackers and then sit back. No reason no plan, nothing. It's a travesty this guy gets paid.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsenal's potential Round-of-16 CL opponents as it stands:

Barcelona
Atletico Madrid
Borussia Dortmund
Juventus
Monaco
Benfica

50/50 toss up if we are lucky enough to get Benfica. So 90% chance we are out.

[Marc Overmars]

1st or 2nd I'm not really bothered. It's obvious we are not good enough to beat the best teams in this competition, unless we fluke it.

We have Cavani to thank for letting us off the hook again. What a man.

[fakeyank]

Dont know why we bother with this competition. 2nd round knockout by Barcelona.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Dont know why we bother with this competition. 2nd round knockout by (insert name of team here).
FYP

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Have to say, as poor as we were.....even if it was Wenger managing them and Emery managing us. They are for me a better side than us.

Although on the other hand despite the immense individual talent, I think Emery has them playing like a team. If Cavani actually gains any confidence in front of goal I think they would be challengers for the entire competition.

Veratti and Moura are exceptional players

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wenger can't help himself so there's no chance he can help the team.

Inexplicable team selection that resulted in the inevitable shitty performance. No energy in the team at all, they just stood there and watched the match taking place around them. Luckily Cavani is as hyped as shrek. It looked like we settled for the draw in the end. That typifies Wenger. Bring on two attackers and then sit back. No reason no plan, nothing. It's a travesty this guy gets paid.

Unlike Rooney, Cavani makes runs and actually looks dangerous

I've said for a while even looking beyond team selection (atrocious) and tactics (it took us 30 minutes for it to occur to us to close them down high up the pitch). There is a confidence fundamentally lacking, even when we did press them look at PSG and how good they are at trapping balls, first time passes and finding a team mate under pressure. We panic in these situations, because we have an aging has been who doesn't seem to want to take the time to make the players function as a unit. Not only that but we don't have a squad of big personalities, Sanchez, Koscielny and maybe Cech.....when that's the case you look to the bench for inspiration and character and they see a sagging beuracrat type in a oversized duffel coat.

[Globalgunner]

It appears the only reason why we are in the CL is to keep the Spuds miserable. As crap as we always are they invariably are shittier.
In reality We could never win it in another 20 attempts with Inspector Clouseau in charge. Our 2 opportunities were in 2004 and 2006, we screwed it up both times and have only been worse since.

[Power n Glory]

Shocking stats of the match. This comes courtesy of @YankeeGunner via Twitter. Had to check this for myself on StatZone.

Ozil played only 2 passes to Giroud all game. Sanchez only 2 passes to Biff. Gibbs and Ospina found Bif the most with 4 passes each. :lol:

Our central midfield pair of Rambo and Coq passed Ozil the ball 8 times all game. Ozil received 3 passes from Rambo and 5 from Coquelin. Last match, Elneny found Ozil 15 times on his own.

Iwobi managed to pass the ball to Ozil 13 times and Ozil was able to pass to Sanchez 12 times. 9 for Ramsey.

Ramsey's top 5 players he passed to.
Mustafi - 12
Kos - 8
Coquelin - 8
Sanchez - 7
Jenks - 7

Backwards central! I suppose Sanchez was only in the mix because he comes hunting for the ball when frustrated.

We have to eliminate the weak links. Giroud and Rambo are dysfunctional.

[selassie]

Arsenal's potential Round-of-16 CL opponents as it stands:

Barcelona
Atletico Madrid
Borussia Dortmund
Juventus
Monaco
Benfica

The only team on that list that I think we could knock out over 2 legs is Benfica, Monaco is a 50/50, the rest would knock us out IMO.

It doesn't matter anyway because we're nowhere near good enough to progress far in this tournament.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Giroud and Rambo are dysfunctional.

Whilst I agree, it should be noted that we were just as bad if not worse in Paris when neither of these started

The passing stats are totally unsurprising to me, we looked totally unable to deal with PSG pressing where as conversely PSG midfielders are confident, can trap a ball well and good at one touch passing.

The line up was atrocious, but I'm not entirely confident a different line up would have yielded a better result/performance. PSG play a pressing game and function well as a unit, they retain their shape well....the kind of things Emery is obviously instilling on the training ground.

He's ultimately exactly the kind of manager we should have

[Niall_Quinn]

Whilst I agree, it should be noted that we were just as bad if not worse in Paris when neither of these started

The passing stats are totally unsurprising to me, we looked totally unable to deal with PSG pressing where as conversely PSG midfielders are confident, can trap a ball well and good at one touch passing.

The line up was atrocious, but I'm not entirely confident a different line up would have yielded a better result/performance. PSG play a pressing game and function well as a unit, they retain their shape well....the kind of things Emery is obviously instilling on the training ground.

He's ultimately exactly the kind of manager we should have

That's why you definitely don't play a slow, plodding tempo and stand off them. The precise tactics Wenger settled on. Hard to imagine a guy with so much experience in this tournament is clueless, but he seems to be. He's gripped by fear and will always take the safest option until that decision forces him into a corner, then he over-reacts in the most ridiculous manner. We've seen him shutting down games where we've easily had the upper hand. Last night we saw him throw caution to the wind as he watched his predictably hopeless selection get outplayed all over the pitch. Wenger takes all the plaudits when the plane is on autopilot and cruising at most efficient fuel consumption. But when the autopilot is disengaged he either cuts the engines and plummets or starts careening around the skies wildly pulling on every control he can find. He's an idiot, a tired old has-been that had many chances to get out on top before he became a laughing stock. Or, he's a genius, having found a way to milk a club for two decades when anyone else would have long been shown the door. Can't figure which. I suppose it has to be the latter because could a guy blag it for 20 years without being rumbled? Or does he just give the media a bung to keep the myth rolling?

[Niall_Quinn]

It should also be noted, we'd be 2 points worse off in this group and 6 behind PSG if Cavani wasn't allergic to goals. This is a bit like our second place finish in the league last year. The final position bears no resemblance to the performances that took us there and we're damn lucky we didn't have another competent team in the group.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's why you definitely don't play a slow, plodding tempo and stand off them. The precise tactics Wenger settled on. Hard to imagine a guy with so much experience in this tournament is clueless, but he seems to be. He's gripped by fear and will always take the safest option until that decision forces him into a corner, then he over-reacts in the most ridiculous manner. We've seen him shutting down games where we've easily had the upper hand. Last night we saw him throw caution to the wind as he watched his predictably hopeless selection get outplayed all over the pitch. Wenger takes all the plaudits when the plane is on autopilot and cruising at most efficient fuel consumption. But when the autopilot is disengaged he either cuts the engines and plummets or starts careening around the skies wildly pulling on every control he can find. He's an idiot, a tired old has-been that had many chances to get out on top before he became a laughing stock. Or, he's a genius, having found a way to milk a club for two decades when anyone else would have long been shown the door. Can't figure which. I suppose it has to be the latter because could a guy blag it for 20 years without being rumbled? Or does he just give the media a bung to keep the myth rolling?

I'm not entirely convinced it's intentional, i don't think these players have the confidence and I'm not entirely convinced the ability to pass the ball under pressure. The tactics were wrong that's for sure, i can only think that standing off PSG was because we were frightened of being cut apart by them on the counter attack which we routinely were when we showed more aggressive intent.

Ramsey makes backward passes because he's clearly not confident in driving forward or finding someone with a forward pass, therefore he takes the easy option. Even Wenger was getting frustrated on the bench at some of the decision making being made from passes, which of course ultimately he is responsible for. We haven't beaten Spurs for ages for similar reasons we simply cannot deal with being closed down on the ball and i think that's as much about character and ability as it is tactics.

Would a better manager bring more confidence from this group of players?.......quite possibly but it's by no means a certainty. But of course there is only one way of knowing that.

What i would definitely take from last night, is that there was a performance on the pitch of confidence and control that i want to see from Arsenal, unfortunately it came from our opponents. Have to say love the way PSG play, purposeful attacking play....they don't give up possession easily, wonderful one touch passing combined with driving forward when required.....they should be the template for Arsenal.

[Niall_Quinn]

I thought PSG were poor. No flicks, no tricks, a significant lack of sideways passing. They had way too much energy for me and I didn't like the way they took a chance and showed ambition when they went forward. In fact they went forward far too much and lacked the discipline to slow things down and congest the play.

[Power n Glory]

Whilst I agree, it should be noted that we were just as bad if not worse in Paris when neither of these started

The passing stats are totally unsurprising to me, we looked totally unable to deal with PSG pressing where as conversely PSG midfielders are confident, can trap a ball well and good at one touch passing.

The line up was atrocious, but I'm not entirely confident a different line up would have yielded a better result/performance. PSG play a pressing game and function well as a unit, they retain their shape well....the kind of things Emery is obviously instilling on the training ground.

He's ultimately exactly the kind of manager we should have

It’s worth remembering we came into that PSG pretty shaky and still working out how to play with Sanchez up front. We still managed to get the ball to Sanchez and Ozil more times than we did on this occasion. Not saying we would have won because I think our first team squad needs adjusting and improvement anyway, but we stand no chance if our midfield can’t find our attackers.

Ramsey can’t play as a CM and probably has no place in the squad if the only thing he can do is burst forward. Giroud is a plan B striker. It says a lot that he received the ball more from Ospina and Gibbs than any other player.

But that said, it doesn’t mean Coquelin, Ozil, Iwobi and Sanchez are free from criticism. We’ve had 3 big games and they haven’t produced. We need more from then. I won’t fault Sanchez’s effort because he never goes anonymous but really should have put us ahead with that header against Utd. You already know my views on Ozil.

PSG are good team but I wouldn't go too far with the praise. We could have had them if we kept playing at a high tempo. We were at home but played like we just shat our pants. We came out strong for the 2nd half which suggests we something was said at half time but we blew the lead.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is it time for Theo to do a news piece about a secret meeting between the players yet? Isn't that usually due around this period?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I thought PSG were poor. No flicks, no tricks, a significant lack of sideways passing. They had way too much energy for me and I didn't like the way they took a chance and showed ambition when they went forward. In fact they went forward far too much and lacked the discipline to slow things down and congest the play.

:lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It’s worth remembering we came into that PSG pretty shaky and still working out how to play with Sanchez up front. We still managed to get the ball to Sanchez and Ozil more times than we did on this occasion. Not saying we would have won because I think our first team squad needs adjusting and improvement anyway, but we stand no chance if our midfield can’t find our attackers.

Ramsey can’t play as a CM and probably has no place in the squad if the only thing he can do is burst forward. Giroud is a plan B striker. It says a lot that he received the ball more from Ospina and Gibbs than any other player.

But that said, it doesn’t mean Coquelin, Ozil, Iwobi and Sanchez are free from criticism. We’ve had 3 big games and they haven’t produced. We need more from then. I won’t fault Sanchez’s effort because he never goes anonymous but really should have put us ahead with that header against Utd. You already know my views on Ozil.

PSG are good team but I wouldn't go too far with the praise. We could have had them if we kept playing at a high tempo. We were at home but played like we just shat our pants. We came out strong for the 2nd half which suggests we something was said at half time but we blew the lead.


Oh don't get me wrong PSG are far from perfect, the fact that they annihilated us in both legs and we got away with a draw in both games exemplifies that.

One of their significant weaknesses is like with us that they have to play out from the back and that's when they are at their most vulnerable (in both games we had most success pressing them in their own third)

And of course there is an inability to finish games when they are on top.

But i think as poor as we were, they do make us poor by playing on our lack of confidence on the ball when not given time and space. And i do reiterate that their energy, confidence on the ball and ambition is something we should look to emulate.

It's clearly not just about having physical presence either, because Veratti is a midget but he was essentially dictating the tempo last night.

[Letters]

Bayern will finish 2nd in their group too so this is clearly a clever tactic to avoid them in the last 16.
Wenger :bow:

[Power n Glory]

Oh don't get me wrong PSG are far from perfect, the fact that they annihilated us in both legs and we got away with a draw in both games exemplifies that.

One of their significant weaknesses is like with us that they have to play out from the back and that's when they are at their most vulnerable (in both games we had most success pressing them in their own third)

And of course there is an inability to finish games when they are on top.

But i think as poor as we were, they do make us poor by playing on our lack of confidence on the ball when not given time and space. And i do reiterate that their energy, confidence on the ball and ambition is something we should look to emulate.

It's clearly not just about having physical presence either, because Veratti is a midget but he was essentially dictating the tempo last night.

It's not just their style we need to emulate. We could learn a lot from most teams when it comes to defend. We have no approach. Yesterday, I could see Sanchez pressing like a madman whilst his teammates just stood back and watched. It's something seen far too often. The players defend how they want and not collectively. The manager doesn't say anything to them. It still amazes me that it took Wenger saying to the press that Theo can't defend for Theo to pull his socks up. I suspect that's the same for most of the players because don't defend as a unit.

[selassie]

Is it time for Theo to do a news piece about a secret meeting between the players yet? Isn't that usually due around this period?

:lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's not just their style we need to emulate. We could learn a lot from most teams when it comes to defend. We have no approach. Yesterday, I could see Sanchez pressing like a madman whilst his teammates just stood back and watched. It's something seen far too often. The players defend how they want and not collectively. The manager doesn't say anything to them. It still amazes me that it took Wenger saying to the press that Theo can't defend for Theo to pull his socks up. I suspect that's the same for most of the players because don't defend as a unit.

Maybe other teams but not necessarily PSG, whilst they have very good individual defenders....i think as a unit they make the mistakes as we do...hold a very high line and seem to mark zonally at times (certainly in Ligue 1 anyway)

[mastermind84]

Wenger is the root to all the problems.

He isn't a modern manager. Doesn't understand positional play. Doesn't know how to get the team to press as a unit. He is cooked. It's not the players, it's him.

He only cares about final 3rd play but we can't get it there anymore.

We struggled this season with Cazorla and without him. We have struggled this season creating chances against better sides. It's Wenger.

And Cavani is a beast of a player. Mustafi really has me scared. He reminding me of Vermaelen.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And Cavani is a beast of a player. .

Keown described him last night as a throw back (i think he was more describing how he plays) and i thought that's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black

[Power n Glory]

Cavani misses too many chances. I wanted him here at Arsenal but if he were playing for us against PSG and missed all those chances which resulted in draws...I'd be pissed. It's slim pickings for the decent chances we're creating these days so having someone in the squad that's wasteful wouldn't go down well.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Cavani misses too many chances. I wanted him here at Arsenal but if he were playing for us against PSG and missed all those chances which resulted in draws...I'd be pissed. It's slim pickings for the decent chances we're creating these days so having someone in the squad that's wasteful wouldn't go down well.

absolutely ridiculous the chances he missed both last night and in Paris, the fact that he made so many chances for himself is a testament both to his quality and to our panicky play, but yeah when clean through on goal and with the header those are blatant nailed on chances....to the point where i'd be disappointed if i missed them and i have the first touch and poise of a parkinson's sufferer with the ball.

[mastermind84]

Cavani converted about 25% of his chances in the two legs. Aguero, Lewandowski, Aubameyang convert at that clip.

Taking four chances a match is elite. A striker who gets 3 or 4 chances a match and converts one is better than the striker who converts 1/4 of his chances but is spread over 4 or 5 games.

I shitted on him but he beasted on Mustafi and Koscielney the two legs, especially Mustafi.

[Power n Glory]

Cavani converted about 25% of his chances in the two legs. Aguero, Lewandowski, Aubameyang convert at that clip.

Taking four chances a match is elite. A striker who gets 3 or 4 chances a match and converts one is better than the striker who converts 1/4 of his chances but is spread over 4 or 5 games.

I shitted on him but he beasted on Mustafi and Koscielney the two legs, especially Mustafi.

I've always wanted us to sign him but if I'm being honest with myself, I'd be pissed off with his performance. The missed header and that attempt to chip Ospina would have really got to me. It's not the first time I've seen him blow chances either. I'd be wary of signing him for a record breaking fee at his age. We should have gone for him whilst in Napoli and maybe Wenger could have improved his finishing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

maybe Wenger could have improved his finishing.

surely you jest

[Power n Glory]

surely you jest

No, I'm serious. That's the one area I think Wenger still has something to offer and can squeeze that extra 10% out of a players performance. He did it with RVP, Cesc, Ade, Walcott, Giroud even and now he's working on Ozil. Not saying they're all clinical but I've seen improvements to the way they finish.

[mastermind84]

I've always wanted us to sign him but if I'm being honest with myself, I'd be pissed off with his performance. The missed header and that attempt to chip Ospina would have really got to me. It's not the first time I've seen him blow chances either. I'd be wary of signing him for a record breaking fee at his age. We should have gone for him whilst in Napoli and maybe Wenger could have improved his finishing.

Not saying we should sign him. Just that his missed chances stand out because he got so many of them. That's what elite strikers do.

Only aliens like Messi and Cronaldo convert at rates above 25%.

Cavani was great over these two matches.

[Chippy]

Cavani converted about 25% of his chances in the two legs. Aguero, Lewandowski, Aubameyang convert at that clip.

Taking four chances a match is elite. A striker who gets 3 or 4 chances a match and converts one is better than the striker who converts 1/4 of his chances but is spread over 4 or 5 games.

I shitted on him but he beasted on Mustafi and Koscielney the two legs, especially Mustafi.

Yep, Mustafi. Another one of Wumgers poor centre back signings. That list gets bigger! <_<

[Power n Glory]

Not saying we should sign him. Just that his missed chances stand out because he got so many of them. That's what elite strikers do.

Only aliens like Messi and Cronaldo convert at rates above 25%.

Cavani was great over these two matches.

He definitely has the movement and I'd take a striker that can get into those sorts of positions 3/4 times a game over a player like Giroud. But I'm not sure about the elite status. Conversion rates and percentages aside, I think you have to score in those crucial moments to earn that tag.

[Power n Glory]

Yep, Mustafi. Another one of Wumgers poor centre back signings. That list gets bigger! <_<

Is he that bad? I think he's been decent for us. Better than what Kos was when he first arrived on the scene. Give him time.

[mastermind84]

He definitely has the movement and I'd take a striker that can get into those sorts of positions 3/4 times a game over a player like Giroud. But I'm not sure about the elite status. Conversion rates and percentages aside, I think you have to score in those crucial moments to earn that tag.
Aubameyang missed some great chances against Bayern last Saturday. Like 2 or 3.

Henry was called a bottler for his misses in big matches for us.

It's just not a real thing. The diffference between top class strikers and everyone else is how many opportunities they get.


Is he that bad? I think he's been decent for us. Better than what Kos was when he first arrived on the scene. Give him time.
Kos waaaay better than Mustafi is now.

Mustafi looks better than Vermaelen, fwiw. I think he will develop into a great centerback but we fans need to let him get there first instead of just saying he is.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Aubameyang missed some great chances against Bayern last Saturday. Like 2 or 3.

Henry was called a bottler for his misses in big matches for us.

It's just not a real thing. The diffference between top class strikers and everyone else is how many opportunities they get.


Kos waaaay better than Mustafi is now.

Mustafi looks better than Vermaelen, fwiw. I think he will develop into a great centerback but we fans need to let him get there first instead of just saying he is.

I don't get how you can say it's not a real thing, surely a striker is defined by more than just what chances he creates.

Cavani even if you are purely showcasing the two games against us, missed chances that cost his side a win in both games....it's as simple as that that was the difference between PSG winning and not winning both fixtures.

Now we all criticise Giroud because of chances he misses, and more so especially when he starts he drops into midfield and shows no mobility so it reduces the chances created for him. Now Cavani is an improvement on that because he makes fabulous runs and his movement totally bewitches defenders but ultimately what use is it if he's going to fluff chances like that. Giroud misses chances for sure, but to be fair on Giroud even he has not missed that many clear cut chances in a game (of course that's partly because he hasn't made himself available for said chances)

[mastermind84]

I don't get how you can say it's not a real thing, surely a striker is defined by more than just what chances he creates.

Cavani even if you are purely showcasing the two games against us, missed chances that cost his side a win in both games....it's as simple as that that was the difference between PSG winning and not winning both fixtures.

Now we all criticise Giroud because of chances he misses, and more so especially when he starts he drops into midfield and shows no mobility so it reduces the chances created for him. Now Cavani is an improvement on that because he makes fabulous runs and his movement totally bewitches defenders but ultimately what use is it if he's going to fluff chances like that. Giroud misses chances for sure, but to be fair on Giroud even he has not missed that many clear cut chances in a game (of course that's partly because he hasn't made himself available for said chances)
It's not a real thing. It's one of the ways pundits have mislead us about understanding of the game.

Like I said before, most strikers tend to convert around 20-25 percent of their chances. Goals in itself are a matter of luck. They are freak occurance that happen in a match. It's why Jonathan Wilson famously said goals are overrated. It's not diminishing the importance of goals, but looking only at goals tends to diminish the process that less to the goal. Özil is a special player because he creates chances at an absurd clip. Those chances lead to opportunities on goals which would hopefully lead to the freak occurance of a goal. The more chances you have at a goal, the greater the chances of that freak occurance taking place.

Strikers like Cavani missing a boatload of chances are frustrating to see, but we should be more frustrated at the striker who doesn't get a single shot on goal in a match. That's why most of us are complaining about only getting 3 shots on goal the last 180 minutes Arsenal have played. That's pathetic. I'd rather have Cavani missing a lot of chances but still getting a goal than what we are getting now because the we will regress back to the mean eventually.


Also before this hot streak of Giroud, he was converting something like 2 goals in his prior 25 shots. That's pathetic.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's not a real thing. It's one of the ways pundits have mislead us about understanding of the game.

Like I said before, most strikers tend to convert around 20-25 percent of their chances. Goals in itself are a matter of luck. They are freak occurance that happen in a match. It's why Jonathan Wilson famously said goals are overrated. It's not diminishing the importance of goals, but looking only at goals tends to diminish the process that less to the goal. Özil is a special player because he creates chances at an absurd clip. Those chances lead to opportunities on goals which would hopefully lead to the freak occurance of a goal. The more chances you have at a goal, the greater the chances of that freak occurance taking place.

Strikers like Cavani missing a boatload of chances are frustrating to see, but we should be more frustrated at the striker who doesn't get a single shot on goal in a match. That's why most of us are complaining about only getting 3 shots on goal the last 180 minutes Arsenal have played. That's pathetic. I'd rather have Cavani missing a lot of chances but still getting a goal than what we are getting now because the we will regress back to the mean eventually.


Also before this hot streak of Giroud, he was converting something like 2 goals in his prior 25 shots. That's pathetic.

The problem with that argument is that you are conflating quantity and quality of chances

If Cavani had four or five reasonable chances to score and missed four and scored one, than yes what you are saying would carry some weight

In both Paris and at the Emirates, the chances Cavani missed were actually far easier than the ones he scored

In Paris he rounded Ospina and had an open goal only to find the side netting, he was clean through on goal a number of times

That after his first minute header he missed all of these not just decent chances but glaring chances cannot be chalked up to statistics

The same in London, the goal he scored was actually very good in that he ghosted into the box and was picked up by no-one, but again clean through on goal....an absolute free header and he misses both.

That's a problem and if we are being honest the two Arsenal games are not outliers, i remember the ridiculous amount of chances he missed against Chelsea in 13/14 quarter finals at Stamford Bridge just one of which taken would have taken PSG through to the semis but instead Chelsea punished that profligacy and scored the second goal and went through instead.

[Power n Glory]

Aubameyang missed some great chances against Bayern last Saturday. Like 2 or 3.

Henry was called a bottler for his misses in big matches for us.

It's just not a real thing. The diffference between top class strikers and everyone else is how many opportunities they get.


Kos waaaay better than Mustafi is now.

Mustafi looks better than Vermaelen, fwiw. I think he will develop into a great centerback but we fans need to let him get there first instead of just saying he is.

It's a factor but not the difference between top class. Was Adebayor in that elite bracket? He'd often carve out a lot of chances. I disagree on this one. Some of the best strikers in football would have quiet games but bury that one chance they had in the dying moments of the game. That's the mark of an elite striker. I think what your describing about chances comes down to good athleticism and that's different to actually being a good striker. Put Walcott up front and he'll get chances.

As for Kos...I'm don't mean now, I mean his first couple of seasons. He wasn't very good.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I disagree on this one. Some of the best strikers in football would have quiet games but bury that one chance they had in the dying moments of the game.

Yep pretty much, and aside from his terrifying pace and his amazing technical ability.....this is what made Henry a great striker

Cavani's runs and the way his movement bamboozles defenders is pretty impressive, but if he's creating these amazing chances for himself that he's not finishing than what's the point.

[Power n Glory]

Yep pretty much, and aside from his terrifying pace and his amazing technical ability.....this is what made Henry a great striker

Cavani's runs and the way his movement bamboozles defenders is pretty impressive, but if he's creating these amazing chances for himself that he's not finishing than what's the point.

Yep. It’s losing sight of the purpose of a striker. We rarely see real technicians in that position these days. Ronaldo really changed what it meant to be a striker when he arrived on the scene. The Real Ronaldo. He could dribble like a winger but score like a striker and he’d drop deep. It was the same for Henry. We can’t dismiss the striking element as just pure luck. If that were the case, we’d be able to get away with Sanogo or Gervinho playing up front when Wenger tried it some years back.

[mastermind84]

The problem with that argument is that you are conflating quantity and quality of chances

If Cavani had four or five reasonable chances to score and missed four and scored one, than yes what you are saying would carry some weight

I'm not.

The fact that Cavani is getting good chances shows his quality.

If he was taking four shots from 40 yards out, then I wouldn't say a good word. Getting those chances show he has quality.


Also, and what my main point is, how often do you see strikers convert their only chance? It's easier to remember singular moments and forget a)consistency b)when they miss on that single moment.

I'm not saying Cavani is in the Suarez, Auba, Lewandowski, Aguero, or even Costa class.

What I am saying is that his performances over these two legs were elite.

[selassie]

I'm not.

The fact that Cavani is getting good chances shows his quality.

If he was taking four shots from 40 yards out, then I wouldn't say a good word. Getting those chances show he has quality.


Also, and what my main point is, how often do you see strikers convert their only chance? It's easier to remember singular moments and forget a)consistency b)when they miss on that single moment.

I'm not saying Cavani is in the Suarez, Auba, Lewandowski, Aguero, or even Costa class.

What I am saying is that his performances over these two legs were elite.

They weren't elite because he missed a lot of sitters!!!

His movement is elite, I won't argue with that but his finishing leaves a lot to be desired...it wasn't a one-off either, he's a very patchy finisher, needs at least 5 or 6 clear cut chances before he buries one.

If he was leading the line for us missing the chances he does this place would be in meltdown!

He's like a slightly upgraded version of Giroud with pace.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm not.

The fact that Cavani is getting good chances shows his quality.

If he was taking four shots from 40 yards out, then I wouldn't say a good word. Getting those chances show he has quality.


Also, and what my main point is, how often do you see strikers convert their only chance? It's easier to remember singular moments and forget a)consistency b)when they miss on that single moment.

I'm not saying Cavani is in the Suarez, Auba, Lewandowski, Aguero, or even Costa class.

What I am saying is that his performances over these two legs were elite.

What I am saying to you is that the chances he is creating are totally irrelevant because he's not taking them

When you create the chances to score that any half decent striker should be taking and Cavani is routinely missing them, that's the problem

A top striker has no business missing the chances Cavani has missed and that they are good chances that he's created for himself pale into insignificance when they are numerous chances he has failed to convert.

And in both games it has cost PSG Wins they should have got

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

They weren't elite because he missed a lot of sitters!!!

His movement is elite, I won't argue with that but his finishing leaves a lot to be desired...it wasn't a one-off either, he's a very patchy finisher, needs at least 5 or 6 clear cut chances before he buries one.

If he was leading the line for us missing the chances he does this place would be in meltdown!

He's like a slightly upgraded version of Giroud with pace.

I'm glad it's not just me who sees how ridiculous the argument being made is

[Power n Glory]

They weren't elite because he missed a lot of sitters!!!

His movement is elite, I won't argue with that but his finishing leaves a lot to be desired...it wasn't a one-off either, he's a very patchy finisher, needs at least 5 or 6 clear cut chances before he buries one.

If he was leading the line for us missing the chances he does this place would be in meltdown!

He's like a slightly upgraded version of Giroud with pace.

It’s an odd argument because Adebayor would often divide opinion on here. I know MM is no fan of Walcott up front either and he’s had games where he’s had loads of chances to score but he never gets this sort of praise. It’s an odd argument. Mobility is definitely important and he’d be an upgrade on Giroud in that department but I’m not so sure about everything else. Giroud’s biggest flaw is his lack of pace. I think his overall finishing has improved and now it’s the lack of movement that’s really killing us.

[Power n Glory]

I'm glad it's not just me who sees how ridiculous the argument being made is

You're definitely not alone on this one.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You're definitely not alone on this one.

Even your compliments are back handed :sulk:

[selassie]

I'm glad it's not just me who sees how ridiculous the argument being made is

Yep, I don't get it either Herbs!

[selassie]

It’s an odd argument because Adebayor would often divide opinion on here. I know MM is no fan of Walcott up front either and he’s had games where he’s had loads of chances to score but he never gets this sort of praise. It’s an odd argument. Mobility is definitely important and he’d be an upgrade on Giroud in that department but I’m not so sure about everything else. Giroud’s biggest flaw is his lack of pace. I think his overall finishing has improved and now it’s the lack of movement that’s really killing us.

Yep totally agree P'n'G. :good:

[Power n Glory]

Even your compliments are back handed :sulk:

:lol: That came out wrong.

But going off what MM has said, does that mean Giroud's performance against Monaco was a goal short of an elite performance?

[mastermind84]

:lol: That came out wrong.

But going off what MM has said, does that mean Giroud's performance against Monaco was a goal short of an elite performance?
If you find yourself in front of goal that many times, yes it was a strong performance.

Elite woulda been finishing one of those chances. Cavani actually finished one yesterday.


I think what this comes down too is I appreciate the process and result. A lot of you only care for the result.

[Power n Glory]

If you find yourself in front of goal that many times, yes it was a strong performance.

Elite woulda been finishing one of those chances. Cavani actually finished one yesterday.


I think what this comes down too is I appreciate the process and result. A lot of you only care for the result.

Most people appreciate both. You don't have to look too far to find my arguments on why I thought Theo and Sanchez were more suited up front for us over Giroud. Pace and movement would create more opportunities on goal. You've said neither were suited to play up front when we've had this debate in the past so not sure how you can conclude the above.

[mastermind84]

Most people appreciate both. You don't have to look too far to find my arguments on why I thought Theo and Sanchez were more suited up front for us over Giroud. Pace and movement would create more opportunities on goal. You've said neither were suited to play up front when we've had this debate in the past so not sure how you can conclude the above.
Theo isn't suited to play up top

If you go back, I was one of the first to advocate for Sanchez playing center forward while a few shouted me down.

My issue with Sanchez is that he chases the ball, which he still does. The last match he played for Chile is the way I always want Sanchez to play center fired for us.



Strikers getting into positions to take on good chances and finishing at a 25% clip>>>> those who score memorable goals but are nonexistent the rest of the match.

[Power n Glory]

Theo isn't suited to play up top

If you go back, I was one of the first to advocate for Sanchez playing center forward while a few shouted me down.

My issue with Sanchez is that he chases the ball, which he still does. The last match he played for Chile is the way I always want Sanchez to play center fired for us.



Strikers getting into positions to take on good chances and finishing at a 25% clip>>>> those who score memorable goals but are nonexistent the rest of the match.

We may have both agreed on Sanchez being able to play up front last year but since the season kicked off you've kept saying he lacked the intelligence to play there.

Why isn't Theo suited up front? I hear your point about the importance of a striker being able to get into a good position to score which is why a couple of seasons back I argued we should be playing Walcott up front when most on here backed Welbeck because of his build and pace. The problem I had with Welbeck, despite looking the part, we hardly created any chances with him up top. We might as well have been playing Bif up front because we looked the same in terms of approach. Walcott has a different effect on the team when playing up top and if he were played there throughout the whole of last season and if he could have stayed fit, I'm positive Ozil would have broke that assist record.

[Goonermerree]

We may have both agreed on Sanchez being able to play up front last year but since the season kicked off you've kept saying he lacked the intelligence to play there.

Why isn't Theo suited up front? I hear your point about the importance of a striker being able to get into a good position to score which is why a couple of seasons back I argued we should be playing Walcott up front when most on here backed Welbeck because of his build and pace. The problem I had with Welbeck, despite looking the part, we hardly created any chances with him up top. We might as well have been playing Bif up front because we looked the same in terms of approach. Walcott has a different effect on the team when playing up top and if he were played there throughout the whole of last season and if he could have stayed fit, I'm positive Ozil would have broke that assist record.


Not being funny and everything, but who is Welbeck?

[Power n Glory]

:lol: Danny Welbeck.

[Goonermerree]

:lol: Danny Welbeck.

Dan-Dannny Welbeck, oh I remember him...I think:unsure: