Who Will it be?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If we take it as read that Wenger is off at the end of the season (which is probably not the wisest thing to do)

Let's not ask who you think the next Manager should be, who do you think it will be?

Max Allegri
Thomas Tuchel
Diego Simeone
Joachim Low
Ralph Hassenhuttl
Jorge Sampaoli
Eddie Howe
Giovanni Van Bronckhorst (threw that in as a curveball)
Dennis Bergkamp
Steve Bould
Unai Emery

Or someone i've failed to mention?

[Özim]

For me I'd want it to be

Simeone
Emery
Allegri

(Simeone being my top choice out of the 3)

I reckon it will be some Wenger clone he has chosen though, probably someone with no real record of success whose sides paint pretty patterns from side to side.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger will move upstairs and they'll bring in an unknown who is prepared to take the money and do what he is told. This way the gravy train can roll on, which is the main objective for this club. And they'll be able to rotate nobodies every 3 years as they continue the process of ridding the club of fans and replacing with consumers.

Unless football as a whole collapses and the money ghouls flee, Arsenal is finished.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well from what can be gathered, Hasenhuttl was sounded out for his interest in the job by Gazidis at the end of last year....the guy is a defensive minded coach who works in tandem at Leipzig with Ralph Rangnick.

I genuinely don't believe Wenger has any interest in interfering with club affairs once he is done here, i think the club may ask him for advice on who to replace him with but i don't think he'd give it.

Not a fan of Simeone, that's not the same as saying I don't rate him....only a fool wouldn't rate what he has achieved with Atleti.....but despite how terrible i find our football, i find watching Atletico Madrid even more excruciating.

Allegri is a winner, but i haven't watched enough of Juve to form an opinion on him

I'm a very big admirer of Unai Emery......and i think PSG have played the best football in Europe for me this season, it's organised and disciplined but creative and good on the eye as well....bit like synchronised swimming.

[Marc Overmars]

Far too difficult to say who it will be.

Emery, Simeone and Allegri are probably the best managers in that list. Highly unlikely Emery would leave PSG after 1 season though. He'd be a great fit.

It will probably be someone left field. WUMgers parting gift.

[GP]

What's Owen Coyle up to these days?

emery is the one I wanted before he went to PSG. That one's probably out of reach now.

[Power n Glory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxNGQiAX96c

[GP]

Fake news

[redordead]

Bergkamp and king Henry may take a while but think these two who have arsenal through their blood could forge a good team in all honesty they can't do any worse than wenger has done in the last 10 years

[redordead]

Just hope when that pillock does go he takes Steve bould with him,incidentally am I the only person who thinks bould looks like that geezer out of the mummy films hoho

[Power n Glory]

Can I change my username? Power n Glory just doesn't feel right anymore. The glory days were over a long time ago.

[redordead]

They will return

[rodders]

This needs sorting NOW!! If things are left in limbo whatever chance still exist of Sanchez signing new contract will have gone. They need to have new man in place even if Wenger sees out the season. However as always I expect Arsenal to duck the issue. Kronke needs to go as well, we need an owner who is interested in winning rather than money.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Can I change my username? Power n Glory just doesn't feel right anymore. The glory days were over a long time ago.

I thought it was just that you were a fan of Graham Greene

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This needs sorting NOW!! If things are left in limbo whatever chance still exist of Sanchez signing new contract will have gone. They need to have new man in place even if Wenger sees out the season. However as always I expect Arsenal to duck the issue. Kronke needs to go as well, we need an owner who is interested in winning rather than money.

http://news.arseblog.com/2017/02/wenger-hints-decision-on-future-could-come-in-march/?utm_campaign=autotwitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter

[rodders]

I have never felt less optimistic regarding Arsenal's future than I do now

[Niall_Quinn]

I have never felt less optimistic regarding Arsenal's future than I do now

Stick around. There are deeper depths to find and we have the man who can find them.

[redordead]

I have never felt less optimistic regarding Arsenal's future than I do now

May the lord have mercy on your soul son

[selassie]

I'd love Diego Simeone but I'm pretty sure he won't be coming here. One thing is certain....we'll make a right mess of appointing this new guy...I can just see it. I think Wenger will have his paws all over the appointment too. :(

[rodders]

God help us if it is Eddie Howe , but that is just the sort of jolly nice chap they will go for.

[redordead]

I'd love Diego Simeone but I'm pretty sure he won't be coming here. One thing is certain....we'll make a right mess of appointing this new guy...I can just see it. I think Wenger will have his paws all over the appointment too. :(
Yep and this worries me unless he goes with the Dennis/Henry duo and sticks around offering a bit of advice

[redordead]

No way can Howe get the job way to big maybe in 5/6 years we need a young continental coach whose tactically astute

[redordead]

I really could see Dennis and Henry smashing it

[Power n Glory]

They will return

I was thinking of changing it to 'Delusions of Grandeur'. :(

[GP]

Really? Dennis who won't fly and Henry who decided being a Sky pundit was more important than coaching?

[Letters]

Well from what can be gathered, Hasenhuttl was sounded out for his interest in the job by Gazidis at the end of last year....

The bloke from Knightrider? :blink:

[Niall_Quinn]

I was thinking of changing it to 'Delusions of Grandeur'. :(

Limited shelf life on that one. Even the delusions have gone.

[Niall_Quinn]

The bloke from Knightrider? :blink:

The car would do a better job than Wenger.

[Letters]

I really could see Dennis and Henry smashing it

Then, with respect, you're an idiot.
No offence, like.

Since when has being a great player qualified anyone for being a great manager? Neither have any experience at this level of management.

[Power n Glory]

Then, with respect, you're an idiot.
No offence, like.

Since when has being a great player qualified anyone for being a great manager? Neither have any experience at this level of management.

Can you change my username, please?

'Delusions of Grandeur'

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The bloke from Knightrider? :blink:

don't make fun of the Hoffmeister he has genuine problems with drink

[Letters]

Can you change my username, please?

'Delusions of Grandeur'

Seriously?

[Power n Glory]

Seriously?

Yes please.

It's time for a change.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm sticking with good old Herbert, he knew when it was time to leave the party

[Letters]

Yes please.

It's time for a change.

Change, we need. Done.

[redordead]

Then, with respect, you're an idiot.
No offence, like.

Since when has being a great player qualified anyone for being a great manager? Neither have any experience at this level of management.

Mate was fergerson,wenger,mourinio and god knows who else great players I don't think so and I like I said Dennis and Henry could in time be a good deal before I forgot Dennis doesn't fly so who's the fucking idiot no offence

[Power n Glory]

Change, we need. Done.

:tiphat:

[Letters]

Mate was fergerson,wenger,mourinio and god knows who else great players I don't think so and I like I said Dennis and Henry could in time be a good deal before I forgot Dennis doesn't fly so who's the fucking idiot no offence
:blink:

Pretty sure it's you. You seem to have basically agreed with what I said, a lot of the best managers weren't great players. Bergkamp and Henry are Arsenal legends, no doubt, but that doesn't in any way indicate they'll be top managers and neither of them have experience at this level. I'm not sure what your basis is for saying you think they'd "smash it", by which I took to mean you think they would be worthy successors to Wenger.

[Power n Glory]

Mate was fergerson,wenger,mourinio and god knows who else great players I don't think so and I like I said Dennis and Henry could in time be a good deal before I forgot Dennis doesn't fly so who's the fucking idiot no offence

Considering how long Wenger has been coaching for, it’s hard to believe he hasn’t taken on a former player to mentor.

[fakeyank]

I would take most of the names proposed or even a relative new kid on the block who 'knows his shit'.

[Gooner23]

Simeone for me.

Even if it all went pear shaped, just to see a lunatic come in and give some of our players a kick up the arse would be worth it.

[GP]

I reckon Rod Hull would do a decent job.

[Niall_Quinn]

I would take most of the names proposed or even a relative new kid on the block who 'knows his shit'.

Nobody at all would be better. Just have no manager and it would be a huge improvement.

[GP]

'Arry please

[Niall_Quinn]

'Arry please

Might not be a bad idea. He'd definitely trash their bottom line and if the money wasn't rolling in and was instead going to Arry's dog they might all piss off.

[redordead]

:blink:

Pretty sure it's you. You seem to have basically agreed with what I said, a lot of the best managers weren't great players. Bergkamp and Henry are Arsenal legends, no doubt, but that doesn't in any way indicate they'll be top managers and neither of them have experience at this level. I'm not sure what your basis is for saying you think they'd "smash it", by which I took to mean you think they would be worthy successors to Wenger.

Ok you seem like someone who would start a row in an empty house I don't want to get in a keyboard argument I'm leaving it here but you called me an idiot are you Neville in disguise

[Letters]

I reckon Rod Hull would do a decent job.

Then if he attends to see who we get in the next round of the Cup we could chant "There's Somebody At The Draw".

:dance:



:getcoat:

[Letters]

Ok you seem like someone who would start a row in an empty house
Well, my house is empty right now so I guess you're right.
Apologies for calling you an idiot :hug:

[redordead]

Well, my house is empty right now so I guess you're right.
Apologies for calling you an idiot :hug:

We are all gooners and love the arsenal we are as one x up the arse

[AFC Leveller]

The Seville coach (Sampali sp??) is a pretty good coach. He is wanted by Barca though so could be tricky but he's definitely a good choice. Currently doing well with limited resources at Seville, won a few things with Chili and would help convince Sanchez to stay.

[AFC Leveller]

Does anyone remember Arsenal Wenger being under this much pressure before and this close to leaving? It's very exciting knowing we could be under a new (and hopefully better) manager next season.

Unless Wenger decides to stay, which would be his greatest WUM.

[rodders]

We need a new owner as well, a lot of Arsenals problems stem from Kroenke and his lack of ambition for playing success

[AFC Leveller]

Kroenke is a huge problem as well because he is clearly not interested in what happens on the pitch. He won't be going anytime soon though because he is making money for basically doing fuck all.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Does anyone remember Arsenal Wenger being under this much pressure before and this close to leaving? It's very exciting knowing we could be under a new (and hopefully better) manager next season.

Unless Wenger decides to stay, which would be his greatest WUM.

At the risk of using social media as a barometer, last night was a watershed moment....not in the result but in the attitude of Wengers staunchest defenders. The only argument people are making for him staying now is that there is not enough time between now and the start of the season to replace every facet of what Wenger does in a football sense. Which for me is total horse shit.
The club releasing the statement they did, when they have never done like that before suggests it's the end. He's past the point of no return in the fact that his position is untenable, people would just not turn up next season. Last night ironically came closer to Uniting the fan base than any decent result could have.

[Marc Overmars]

Does anyone remember Arsenal Wenger being under this much pressure before and this close to leaving? It's very exciting knowing we could be under a new (and hopefully better) manager next season.

Unless Wenger decides to stay, which would be his greatest WUM.

The same pressure was there last season but him leaving was never on the cards because he still had a year to run. Now though, it's very much a realistic prospect. The fanbase has never been as vocal as it is now and it would take some real bare faced cheek for Wenger to sign a new deal.

He's going and I'm looking forward to change. I could not give a flying fuck about the remainder of this season. Unless we see some miracles.

[Özim]

If he finally does leave, I'll be pretty happy, we can once again look forward to unpredictability and excitement, it's been a long time coming! It may take some time for a new manager to changes things due to the fact one man has controlled so much for so long, but it'll be worth it.

My only concern is seeing another Wenger clone coming in and Wenger going upstairs and this new guy being his yes man. Wenger needs to leave the club and never be involved again.

Agree about Kroenke though, he has not interest, would be great if he sold up to someone more like Abrahmovic who cares about what's happening on the pitch, once upon a time when he apeared people we predicting Chelsea collapsing when he left them after getting bored, never happened though as the guy clearly loves football and Chelsea.

[Niall_Quinn]

We are less than 24 hours after the Bayern debacle. The corporation wants Wenger to stay. Wenger wants to stay. The fans want him gone. Let's not just assume the fans are going to win this based on something we've seen many times before. Pressure needs to be constantly applied to force him out the door. Too many people feeling sympathy for a man who brought a ton of shit on himself and everyone associated with the club. Too many people assuming the job is done. Far from it. Let the pressure off for just a moment and they'll find a way to cement this guy in place for at least another 2 years.

[Globalgunner]

Kroenke not caring could be considered a blessing in disguise if he left us alone and appointed someone who actually cared about club Arsenal and winning things to run the club. E,g let Gazidis actually do his job and sack the loon in charge. We dont need his money. The club is self sustaining enough to compete with the best and with the right manager at the helm, we could go from strength to strength on the pitch as well as in the accounts. We have lost so many fans in the last decade who didnt join the club because there is no allure to.
Arsenal gained a world following in the early 2000`s because of the immense success of the invincible era. Like it or not kids do not always follow their fathers allegiances. Not with the same fervour anyway.

I could take Wenger leaving today with Bould at the helm till the summer and Allegri taking over. If Wenger stays we are definitely losing Ozil and Sanches and I cannot see any world class player coming to take their places with shit shows like yesterday now the norm rather than the exception.

[redordead]

The Seville coach (Sampali sp??) is a pretty good coach. He is wanted by Barca though so could be tricky but he's definitely a good choice. Currently doing well with limited resources at Seville, won a few things with Chili and would help convince Sanchez to stay.

cant be any worse

[GP]

I'm starting to get the feeling that something will be announced soon.

[Thierrymon]

I'm starting to get the feeling that something will be announced soon.

2 more years for Wenget :bow:

[GP]

2 more years for Wenget :bow:

Nope.

[GP]

Press conference is live on .com tomorrow. Do they usually do that?

[Niall_Quinn]

Press conference is live on .com tomorrow. Do they usually do that?

If it's on at 7PM then it's big. Maybe some good news to cheer us all after a big defeat, like signing up a new sponsor that will pour 30mill into new cars for the players, or Stan having his latest offer for a ranch accepted.

[Marc Overmars]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/sport/football/768469/Arsenal-News-Arsene-Wenger-Bayern-Munich-Champions-League-Wenger-out/amp

Come on Arsene, do the right thing.

[Thierrymon]

The sooner he announces he is leaving, the sooner we can get past all of this toxicity and frustration around the club at the moment. Then we can at least spend the rest of the season being appreciative to the man that did so much for the club in the past, get behind the team and hopefully give him a good send off.

[Gooner23]

I agree it would be better to make the decision now as opposed to the end of the season. I don't think it would be a Pellegrini / Man City situation where players stop trying, the fans will be united behind him and it would be nice to cheer him again.

[Letters]

cant be any worse

Really?

[Letters]

The sooner he announces he is leaving, the sooner we can get past all of this toxicity and frustration around the club at the moment. Then we can at least spend the rest of the season being appreciative to the man that did so much for the club in the past, get behind the team and hopefully give him a good send off.

:good:

I think if he goes now people will appreciate what he's done for us. While I understand the frustration of repeated mistakes and the balls he comes out with in interviews (although no more than most managers), I'll never understand the level of hatred which some people direct towards him. IMO that should be reserved for the board who have allowed this situation to go on and are quite happy to let it go on while the money keeps rolling in. Wenger at least cares and wants us to do better, even if he's not able to.

[rodders]

Wenger and Kroenke both need to go, to make any real progress. Kroenke won't go unless there is someone out there who will make it financially worthwhile for him to do so. Someone who is committed to Arsenal winning. The new regime should be in place as soon as possible even if they do not officially start till the end of the season. Only in that way will there be any chance of those players that wish to leave staying.

[Marc Overmars]

I think Alexis is off by the looks of it. He reportedly kicked off after the defeat.

[Power n Glory]

:good:

I think if he goes now people will appreciate what he's done for us. While I understand the frustration of repeated mistakes and the balls he comes out with in interviews (although no more than most managers), I'll never understand the level of hatred which some people direct towards him. IMO that should be reserved for the board who have allowed this situation to go on and are quite happy to let it go on while the money keeps rolling in. Wenger at least cares and wants us to do better, even if he's not able to.

You don't remember what is like before the sponsorship deals? The Board were getting it on a daily basis. Ivan and Stan were constantly being held up as the problem but nobody wanted to criticise Wenger. People kept on saying it would be a mistake to get rid of Wenger. He was untouchable and the Board knew how popular he was. Wenger's made this situation for himself. The way he has spoken about the fans over the past few years hasn't helped either.

[Gooner23]

I think Alexis is off by the looks of it. He reportedly kicked off after the defeat.

I think he's gone already, regardless of what happens with the manager situation. Wouldn't be surprised if he has already agreed something in private with one of the big Italian clubs or back to Spain.

I have a feeling that Ozil will stay because he knows he has it good at Arsenal.

[Marc Overmars]

'No matter what happens I will manage next season, whether it’s here or somewhere else' - Next Barca manager? :whistle:

He also said he will decide his future in March or April.

[Niall_Quinn]

Utter, utter, utter contempt for the fans again.

Roll him out so he can spout the same old bullshit. After a performance like that he couldn't give the fans even a second of honesty, just the same preachy, never-had-it-so-good horse manure.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4232510/Arsene-Wenger-ready-walk-away-Arsenal.html

How many "sources" do we have at the club? Sounds like the tea lady chimed in on this one.

#MadeUpNews

[Özim]

:good:

I think if he goes now people will appreciate what he's done for us. While I understand the frustration of repeated mistakes and the balls he comes out with in interviews (although no more than most managers), I'll never understand the level of hatred which some people direct towards him. IMO that should be reserved for the board who have allowed this situation to go on and are quite happy to let it go on while the money keeps rolling in. Wenger at least cares and wants us to do better, even if he's not able to.

Really?

It might have something to do with him washing his hands of any of the blame and having the audacity to point the finger at the people effectively paying his wages the fans, no other manager in the history of the game and blamed the fans as much as he has. In addition to that, his holier than thou attitude and his I know better than everyone else in the whole wide world because I've made more than 20000 substitutions and you haven't despite going 12 odd years with little success really doesn't help.

Hatred may be a bit harsh, but it's easy to see why people get very irritated with him, he never learns, insists he's always right despite plety of evidence to the contrary and deflects the blame away from himself and the players.....then at the end of the season when he gets a pathetic 4th place he pats himself and the players on the back and says good job another big trophy in the bag.

He's way past his sell by date and frankly he's developed a really pompous attitude as well, and that goes for when anyone dares question his methods and he gets annoyed as well, they have to filter questions out at the AGM for goodness sake because he's scaed to face the music.

Hi comment about people's attitudes just because we lost 2 games sums him up really, he's totally oblivious to what has taken place for som many years.

I'll also never forget him blaming the fans for Adebayor (they guy who hasn't been able to stick to one club for his entire career) leaving.

[Özim]

Utter, utter, utter contempt for the fans again.

Roll him out so he can spout the same old bullshit. After a performance like that he couldn't give the fans even a second of honesty, just the same preachy, never-had-it-so-good horse manure.

Sums him up and this is one of the reasons some people really can't stand him, he really insults the fans intelligence, frankly amazed people have supported him for so long give his attitude.

I'll be very glad to see the back of him and certainly won't shed a tear, well if I do it will be a tear of joy!

[Letters]

You don't remember what is like before the sponsorship deals? The Board were getting it on a daily basis. Ivan and Stan were constantly being held up as the problem but nobody wanted to criticise Wenger. People kept on saying it would be a mistake to get rid of Wenger. He was untouchable and the Board knew how popular he was. Wenger's made this situation for himself. The way he has spoken about the fans over the past few years hasn't helped either.

Remember what what was like? On here? It was more mixed, admittedly, but there were a lot of people moaning about Wenger before the new financial deals too.
He was certainly not untouchable, not on here anyway.

[Özim]

A lot of people defended him saying he had no money, he was doing a great job it was all the boards fault, only a handful put the balme on his doorstep, he's getting it in the ear now because he has no excuses to hide behind anymore, about time too really he is in charge with the football aside after all (and a lot more if you believe what you hear) and he just hasn't been doing a good enough job for many a year.

Yes he gets 4th place, but really that's just a springboard or should be, no other club would just settle for getting 4th every year, we're now just a club that accepts being 2nd best, it runs right through the club and that I'm afraid is very much Wenger's fault, he's instilled that in the players and it's very evident on the pitch, no desire, ho hunger, no appreciation for the fans.

It's going to take some time to get rid of that, because it's been going on so long, once upon a time we dreamed about challenging the very best clubs after our move to the new stadium, Wednesday was yet another example of the culmination of his work, we're miles away from the top clubs and unlike them the losers mentality is rife and goes right through the club from top to bottom.

People harp on about doing things the right way and yet we have an owner who's only interest is money, would rather have the guy at Chelsea who clearly cares about the club and winning, in my eyes that's certainly more right than what we're doing.

I think we're a shadow of the club we once were.

[Özim]

'No matter what happens I will manage next season, whether it’s here or somewhere else' - Next Barca manager? :whistle:

He also said he will decide his future in March or April.

Barca have their eye on the guys for Sevilla, they'd be fools to take Wenger, I don't think they are fools though they have ambition to win everything and Wenger certainly won't manage that, though with the players they have it wouldn't be too hard to pick up a trophy.

If he's at another club I'll enjoy watching them coming 2nd best and having him say it's a great success, it'll make a change from it being us.

[Globalgunner]

His reputation around Europe is basically ruined. Only he cant see it. The French manager position could be available, but I doubt he can hack it there either. No top club in Europe wants him, thats for sure. China is probably the only place for him to go. They will pay him what he wants and he can fiddle with his Bibendum suit on the sidelines to his hearts content. He is deluded, long has been. Sometime ago I posited that many Arsenal fans were suffering from "Battered Wife syndrome" not wanting him to go . It seems now that Wenger has "Battering husband syndrome". "I cant let my wife divorce me M`lud. Cos I will have no one to beat up when I wake each morning"

[Letters]

A lot of people defended him saying he had no money, he was doing a great job it was all the boards fault, only a handful put the balme on his doorstep, he's getting it in the ear now because he has no excuses to hide behind anymore, about time too really he is in charge with the football aside after all (and a lot more if you believe what you hear) and he just hasn't been doing a good enough job for many a year.

Yes he gets 4th place, but really that's just a springboard or should be, no other club would just settle for getting 4th every year, we're now just a club that accepts being 2nd best, it runs right through the club and that I'm afraid is very much Wenger's fault, he's instilled that in the players and it's very evident on the pitch, no desire, ho hunger, no appreciation for the fans.

It's going to take some time to get rid of that, because it's been going on so long, once upon a time we dreamed about challenging the very best clubs after our move to the new stadium, Wednesday was yet another example of the culmination of his work, we're miles away from the top clubs and unlike them the losers mentality is rife and goes right through the club from top to bottom.

People harp on about doing things the right way and yet we have an owner who's only interest is money, would rather have the guy at Chelsea who clearly cares about the club and winning, in my eyes that's certainly more right than what we're doing.

I think we're a shadow of the club we once were.

Why do you keep saying 4th? :lol: We haven't finished 4th for 3 years.
The situation has changed so my opinion has changed, as has other people's, but he was getting a lot of stick back in the day from some people. In the era where we were struggling to compete financially I think he did quite well to keep us "up there". Now the money is there so there is no reason we can't compete, he's been signing the sorts of players who should enable us to step up like Ozil and Sanchez and while the FA Cups were nice we really should be competing for the biggest prizes now. We're not, and that's why he has to go. I don't think Wenger is satisfied with us being 2nd best but I don't think he's able to do better. I blame the board too though because they ARE happy for us to be 2nd best as it keeps the money rolling in.
I'm not sure it will take that long to improve things IF we get the right manager in - note how Chelsea did so poorly last year when they had a manager the players couldn't work with, this year they'll probably be champions.

As for Wenger not taking the blame for things, that sounds like a lot of the managers who you look at admiringly. You do this sort of thing a lot, you hold people to different standards depending on whether you like them or not.

I hope Wenger goes at the end of this season, if he does he'll go with some dignity and most people will respect what he's done for the club.

[Özim]

Why do you keep saying 4th? :lol: We haven't finished 4th for 3 years.
The situation has changed so my opinion has changed, as has other people's, but he was getting a lot of stick back in the day from some people. In the era where we were struggling to compete financially I think he did quite well to keep us "up there". Now the money is there so there is no reason we can't compete, he's been signing the sorts of players who should enable us to step up like Ozil and Sanchez and while the FA Cups were nice we really should be competing for the biggest prizes now. We're not, and that's why he has to go. I don't think Wenger is satisfied with us being 2nd best but I don't think he's able to do better. I blame the board too though because they ARE happy for us to be 2nd best as it keeps the money rolling in.
I'm not sure it will take that long to improve things IF we get the right manager in - note how Chelsea did so poorly last year when they had a manager the players couldn't work with, this year they'll probably be champions.

As for Wenger not taking the blame for things, that sounds like a lot of the managers who you look at admiringly. You do this sort of thing a lot, you hold people to different standards depending on whether you like them or not.

I hope Wenger goes at the end of this season, if he does he'll go with some dignity and most people will respect what he's done for the club.

2nd, 3rd, 4th it's all the same when you don't compete for the trophies! Personally I think he hasn't done a good job for a long time, I always maintained his flaws, persistence with failing methods and refusal to do the right things hindered us and I stand by that. As for signing players, he's signed 2 players (3 if you include Cech though he was cheap and not one to build a team with IMO) hardly groundbreaking, he should have done a lot more of that and had the chance, last summer being a prime example, he signed some nobodies for a lot of money who just haven't worked out (he should have gone for targets earlier in the summer not waiting around until late on when prices would be higher and choice scarce, poor management IMO).

I totally disagree, he is satisfied with being 2nd best, that's part of the reason we are where we are, he won't do the necessary and go out on a limb to try and make us winners, he's all too happy qualifying for the CL, that's the holy grail for him, that and making a profit, you saying he isn't satisfied doesn't make it so, evidence point to the fact he is, he wouldn't have hailed qualifying for the CL as such a great achievement otherwise, he epitomises the losers mentality IMO and that runs throughout the club which is sad and will take time to change for any new manager.

Like it or not he's won 2 FA Cups in what 12 years, that's a pretty poor return, time after time he's failed but what's worse is his attitude, it asbolutely shocking that a manager could behave like this towards the fans and be so much in denial and frankly it's unacceptable any other club would have sacked him years ago, he's been very lucky to be at a club like Arsenal where the owner only cares about profit. I'm not absolving the owners of blame btw, they are very much to blame, but this mess also started before they arrived IMO, the day he decided to change our style of play to this tippy tappy rubbish in fact.

Clubs have ups and downs, new managers new time to bed in, the thing is other clubs don't accept things going wrong they do something about it when it doesn't work, Chelsea being a perfect example, they got rid of a manager who had had a huge amount of success because it wasn't working out and look where they are now.

Most managers are far more honest about things than Wenger, that's what makes him so much more irritating than the rest, other managers will take the blame, blame players, say when performances are unacceptable, they don't wrap all the players in cotton wool or indeed blame the fans (pretty low if you ask me).

I lost respect for Wenger a long time ago, not because of what he was doing but because of his criticism of fans and refusal to ever accept any blame or balme his players, they were always the good ones who were hard done by, pretty pathetic really, I think quite a few fans have lost respect for him too.

At the end of the day he's had 20 years with us and 12 odd years has been IMO a failure, so his record isn't all that, plenty of better managers out there.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger has been instrumental in changing Arsenal from a football club to a financial institution. Whatever else, he's guilty of that. Every time it was suggested we take a risk and buy that one player who made a difference Leeds Utd were rolled out as a certainty of what would befall us if we spent the money. Only when the balance sheet was tipped wildly in favour of the shareholders and there was a ton of cash in the bank did we spend some of it. Even then, it seems the board was happy to spend more but Wenger carried on his penny pinching ways but now he was doing far more damage as the money gave him the means to panic buy when his penny pinching didn't work out. That's why we have ended up with 90 million worth of players who are second rate, bar possibly Peres who (of course, it's Wenger) he won't play. As Littlejohn would say - I'm a massive cuntyou couldn't make it up.

Wenger took this club to the top of the mountain... and then he destroyed it. That's his legacy. We're a hedge fund for Stan Kroenke now. That's our primary purpose and Wenger and the rest have treated themselves bountifully during the process of transformation. It's a scandal really, but the media will all fawn and the fans will all don rose tinted specs when he eventually leaves.

Yes Wenger, no doubt about it, thanks for the privilege of watching some of the best football I have ever seen and am ever likely to see. I don't deny you that. But shame on you for the other things. Those shouldn't be forgotten either, even though they will be.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why do you keep saying 4th? :lol: We haven't finished 4th for 3 years.
The situation has changed so my opinion has changed, as has other people's, but he was getting a lot of stick back in the day from some people. In the era where we were struggling to compete financially I think he did quite well to keep us "up there". Now the money is there so there is no reason we can't compete, he's been signing the sorts of players who should enable us to step up like Ozil and Sanchez and while the FA Cups were nice we really should be competing for the biggest prizes now. We're not, and that's why he has to go. I don't think Wenger is satisfied with us being 2nd best but I don't think he's able to do better. I blame the board too though because they ARE happy for us to be 2nd best as it keeps the money rolling in.
I'm not sure it will take that long to improve things IF we get the right manager in - note how Chelsea did so poorly last year when they had a manager the players couldn't work with, this year they'll probably be champions.

As for Wenger not taking the blame for things, that sounds like a lot of the managers who you look at admiringly. You do this sort of thing a lot, you hold people to different standards depending on whether you like them or not.

I hope Wenger goes at the end of this season, if he does he'll go with some dignity and most people will respect what he's done for the club.

Are you sure they aren't looking at him with unrestrained jealousy? A multi-millionaire who doesn't have to achieve anything except the barest minimum? A guy who sets his own targets and is accountable to nobody regardless of the outcome? I can see why a lot of managers would look on and admire the sheer nerve of it. Nice of you can get away with it, especially for so long.

[Munchies]

Wenger on #afc fans' anger: "It's not like Arsenal had won the European Cup 5 times before I arrived. They've never won it."

what a cunt!

[Power n Glory]

Wenger on #afc fans' anger: "It's not like Arsenal had won the European Cup 5 times before I arrived. They've never won it."

what a cunt!


Agreed. Sympathy goes out the window when he starts talking this way.

[Munchies]

Chileans will protest on 1st March in a bid to get Sanchez out of Arsenal.

:haha:

[Munchies]

Agreed. Sympathy goes out the window when he starts talking this way.

he makes these statements on purpose to deflect from the actual criticism. Never accepts anything.

Fuck the send off. He can fucking do one. Massive cunt!

[Özim]

Wenger on #afc fans' anger: "It's not like Arsenal had won the European Cup 5 times before I arrived. They've never won it."

what a cunt!

Won the cup winners cup and UEFA cup though, what has he won in Europe, absolutely nothing, he's a total failure in Europe, arguably the biggest failure ever having had so many opportunities.

Couldn't even with the UEFA cup when he had he chance.

[Letters]

2nd, 3rd, 4th it's all the same when you don't compete for the trophies!
If it's all the same then why do you insist of emphasising the "fake news" that we always finish 4th.
He's always had flaws of course, some people act like he only developed flaws in the latter part of his reign. The fact is he was never a great tactician, never a great motivator and his teams have always under-achieved to some degree - that side circa The Invincibles should have won 3 titles in a row and should probably have won the CL. But he's made up for those weaknesses by his strengths - fitness methods, knowledge of the worldwide game to name but two which when he came to us were revolutionary. But revolutionary ideas don't stay revolutionary, other clubs caught up and overtook us in some regards, then the billionaires stuck their beaks in just at the time when the stadium move was limiting our finances.
His strengths helped us stay relatively competitive during that era, his weaknesses stopped us from winning more trophies. Right now the money is there, it's clear that we won't win another title under Wenger. The fact we expect to be challenging for the title each year is a legacy of Wenger's time with us but we need someone else to push us on.
He clearly isn't satisfied with 2nd best. Why would he be? He's clearly competitive, you say yourself how sulky he gets when things don't go our way, why would he act like that if he wasn't bothered?
Chelsea sacked a manager who was in the process of taking the Champions into a relegation battle because of his toxic personality, say what you like about Wenger he's never sunk that low.


plenty of better managers out there.

There really aren't. Some though, certainly. Many of the managers people on here have cited as potential replacements have crashed and burned at other clubs.
It's a slightly pointless argument because "many" is vague and there's no quantifiable way of saying how good a manager is.

[Letters]

Are you sure they aren't looking at him with unrestrained jealousy? A multi-millionaire who doesn't have to achieve anything except the barest minimum? A guy who sets his own targets and is accountable to nobody regardless of the outcome? I can see why a lot of managers would look on and admire the sheer nerve of it. Nice of you can get away with it, especially for so long.

The board are responsible for that, but I believe Wenger sets himself higher targets than he can achieve these days. The board couldn't give a monkeys how we do so long as the money keeps rolling in, Wenger at least cares.
Clubs pretty much have to be financial institutions these days. Wenger hasn't done that, Sky have. His legacy is the stadium and our standing in the worldwide game as well as the sack of trophies and the memories.

[Letters]

he makes these statements on purpose to deflect from the actual criticism. Never accepts anything.

Fuck the send off. He can fucking do one. Massive cunt!

What is wrong with you?!

[GP]

What is wrong with you?!

Just general immaturity, I think.

[Özim]

If it's all the same then why do you insist of emphasising the "fake news" that we always finish 4th.
He's always had flaws of course, some people act like he only developed flaws in the latter part of his reign. The fact is he was never a great tactician, never a great motivator and his teams have always under-achieved to some degree - that side circa The Invincibles should have won 3 titles in a row and should probably have won the CL. But he's made up for those weaknesses by his strengths - fitness methods, knowledge of the worldwide game to name but two which when he came to us were revolutionary. But revolutionary ideas don't stay revolutionary, other clubs caught up and overtook us in some regards, then the billionaires stuck their beaks in just at the time when the stadium move was limiting our finances.
His strengths helped us stay relatively competitive during that era, his weaknesses stopped us from winning more trophies. Right now the money is there, it's clear that we won't win another title under Wenger. The fact we expect to be challenging for the title each year is a legacy of Wenger's time with us but we need someone else to push us on.
He clearly isn't satisfied with 2nd best. Why would he be? He's clearly competitive, you say yourself how sulky he gets when things don't go our way, why would he act like that if he wasn't bothered?
Chelsea sacked a manager who was in the process of taking the Champions into a relegation battle because of his toxic personality, say what you like about Wenger he's never sunk that low.



There really aren't. Some though, certainly. Many of the managers people on here have cited as potential replacements have crashed and burned at other clubs.
It's a slightly pointless argument because "many" is vague and there's no quantifiable way of saying how good a manager is.

I can't say I notice the difference between 2nd, 3rd, 4th to be honest, the reason for this is we're never really in the title mix, Liverpool came 2nd a few years back but were really in there with a good chance until the end, we fall away long before so for me it's all the same, we were 10 points behind Leicester last season and were never aywhere near at the tail end of the season, so the stats of where we came are pointless IMO.

We never challenge for the title, so that's not his legacy, people want him out for precisely that, he never really challenges and every year it's the same, we collapse when it matters, it's never really a challenge, likewise in the CL, we get through the group then get thumped, it's all so predictable.

His legacy could have been champagne, football, making this club great had he stopped back in 2005, unfortunately he didn't and now he's been here another 11 years (the majority of his spell with us), his legacy is making us a business whose priority is to make a profit at the end of the season at the expense of what happens on the pitch, together with tippy tappy nonsense football that is honestly less interesting than watching paint dry and a losers mentality running from top to bottom at the club.

The way I see it, he's left us with money in the bank but with a lot of issues for anyone new coming in, 20 years of Wenger is going to be hard to erase for any successor and a lot needs to be erased IMO.

You might not agree and that's fair enough but he totally ruined his legacy IMO and in the process he's done quite some damage to this club to the point that it's own fans have a dislike for it and it's own fans fight over him, find another manager who has achieved that. For me he's really drained all of the enjoyment out of watching Arsenal and I'm sure he has for a lot of others!

[Letters]

I can't say I notice the difference between 2nd, 3rd, 4th to be honest.
So, again, if you think there's no difference why do you make a point of emphasising how we always finish 4th. Above you said "pathetic 4th place finishes". Why do that if there's no difference?

If he goes at the end of the season then people will appreciate his legacy. It's not up for you or me to define what it is but my guess is most people will appreciate what he's done for us.

[Özim]

So, again, if you think there's no difference why do you make a point of emphasising how we always finish 4th. Above you said "pathetic 4th place finishes". Why do that if there's no difference?

If he goes at the end of the season then people will appreciate his legacy. It's not up for you or me to define what it is but my guess is most people will appreciate what he's done for us.

I think my point is more about CL qualification being the only thing we care about or achieve, 4th place for me signifies that, it's obviously not literally 4th every season, but it may as well be.

Some will appreciate it, but many will also be happy we're rid of him after years of underachievement and pointing the blame at everyone but himself and his players. It's pretty hard to remember the great times now to be fair, it's a long time ago now a lot has changed since then and the fact he's been unable to reproduce any kind of success (unlike the best managers out there), is a massive stain on his CV because logically if you're a top manager you should be able to deliver success time and time again, not just in one spell.

It's actually hard to remember many good moments in the last 10 years.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger on #afc fans' anger: "It's not like Arsenal had won the European Cup 5 times before I arrived. They've never won it."

what a cunt!

His record in Europe is shit and he deserves to be called out on it.

Yes we know Wenger is the one who has elevated expectation and for that I'm grateful, however if the club expect us to pay the highest prices in the game then the fans are completely right to expect a team that can win the major prizes. Actually forget about winning them, just competing would be nice but we can't even do that.

[fakeyank]

His record in Europe is shit and he deserves to be called out on it.

Yes we know Wenger is the one who has elevated expectation and for that I'm grateful, however if the club expect us to pay the highest prices in the game then the fans are completely right to expect a team that can win the major prizes. Actually forget about winning them, just competing would be nice but we can't even do that.

:gp:

Pretty much. Paying for caviar and getting potato chips, and he has the audacity to blame the fans. What a moron!

[Letters]

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39001868


:run:

[Letters]

I think my point is more about CL qualification being the only thing we care about or achieve, 4th place for me signifies that, it's obviously not literally 4th every season, but it may as well be.
Who are 'we'?
The board? I agree.
Wenger? Definitely not.

I think a lot of people will be happy he's gone, but that doesn't mean people won't appreciate what he did. It's funny how you say it's hard to remember the great times when you seem to be pretty clearly remembering the "wonderful" 92/93 season which was long before Wenger's best time with us (and was mostly awful if you had to sit through the games week in, week out).


the fact he's been unable to reproduce any kind of success (unlike the best managers out there), is a massive stain on his CV because logically if you're a top manager you should be able to deliver success time and time again, not just in one spell.
I'd agree with that much - that's what separates Wenger from people like Ferguson who managed to adapt to the way football changed and compete and succeed over a long period of time. But there are very few managers at that level around, and it has to be remembered that for about 7 years Wenger stood toe to toe with him and got the better of him on quite a few occasions.

[rodders]

If Wenger and Kroenke stay it will be difficult to attract new players of the required calibre and even more so to keep existing players . Like it or not Arsenal do not pay wages at same level as Man U and players now realise that they are unlikely to win anything under the present regime.

[Niall_Quinn]

Chileans will protest on 1st March in a bid to get Sanchez out of Arsenal.

:haha:

Good grief.

Wenger needs to get the hell out now before he does any more damage. Every day he stays he's making it harder for the new guy that will have to deal with the mess. Certainly the finances are in order, but on the football side we are sinking into some pretty deep shit.

[Özim]

Who are 'we'?
The board? I agree.
Wenger? Definitely not.

I think a lot of people will be happy he's gone, but that doesn't mean people won't appreciate what he did. It's funny how you say it's hard to remember the great times when you seem to be pretty clearly remembering the "wonderful" 92/93 season which was long before Wenger's best time with us (and was mostly awful if you had to sit through the games week in, week out).

The board we agree on, but Wenger, really?? Year after year he does uses the same tired, failed methods, makes the same mistakes and the list goes on, I know you say he's not satisfied, but then why doesn't he try to do something different, why doesn't he sign different players, use different tactics try a different brand of football. He either is happy with what he's achieved or he's thick, I don't think it's the latter so that leaves him being happy with CL qualification, and yes I know he stamps his little feet on the touchline from time to time but that just proves frustration in one match it doesn't prove he's not happy with the outcome.

Time will tell but it's we've seen so much of the Wenger that has failed it's become hard to remember the rest. No all I said was I enjoyed the football and matches back then, I can't remember clearly what is was like, I can just remember enjoying football and being excited to watch Arsenal, but that was probably due to the fact we could upset the odds so football was unpredictable, unlike these days when we already know the outcome before the season has started.

[mastermind84]

It will be Wenger for 2 years.

[Letters]

Time will tell but it's we've seen so much of the Wenger that has failed it's become hard to remember the rest.
Says the man who waxes lyrical about a season which was, a few good cup games aside, completely horrible both in terms of results and the way we played.
It's funny how you're managing to remember the few highlights from a terrible season 25 years ago but struggling to remember 7 seasons of brilliant football and sacks of trophies which ended less than 15 years ago.

I had a season ticket in 92/93 but mercifully it was my first year at Uni so I didn't have to sit through that much but I remember the bits I did see. Man it was awful.
We only won 15 out of 42 league games and finished the season in 10th place, 7 points off the relegation zone.
We only scored 40 league goals in those 42 league games. :lol:
From mid-November till the end of the season we P27 W6 D9 L12 in the league, scoring 18 goals.
And this was a season you "thoroughly enjoyed" because of a few admittedly good cup triumphs (which were also awful games of football by the way but I guess when you've pub-teamed a 1-0 in the FA Cup Semi-Final vs Spurs you don't care too much about the quality).

As I said, I don't think Wenger has the ability to do better but I do believe he wants to deeply. Unlike the board who are quite happy to sit back and count the money.

[Marc Overmars]

I'm sure he wants to do better, every uncompetitive manager would, but that doesn't mean he's not satisfied with the job he's doing. This 'never had it so good' attitude towards the fans suggests he's actually quite comfortable meeting the bare minimum objectives that have been set.

His years of being a ferocious competitor have long gone, that probably went when Dein left and he had to take on the entire weight of the club.

[Niall_Quinn]

It will be Wenger for 2 years.

He seems pretty unrepentant, oblivious to the idea it might be himself at fault. It sounds like he's feeling under-appreciated for the consistent lack of success he's brought over the last decade. Of course he'll view all the big numbers on the balance sheet as the ultimate success. He's not in the same place as the fans on any level. So it wouldn't surprise me if he stayed and thought he was doing us a huge favour, despite our ingratitude.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well that burns away all my optimism that he will be gone at the end of the season

We apparently have to tolerate mediocrity because he can't bear to tear himself away from football

So essentially we have it confirmed, our manager is putting his own interests before that of the club

[Globalgunner]

Narrow win for Trump in the deluded narcissistic press conference sweepstakes. By a nose.

[Niall_Quinn]

Says the man who waxes lyrical about a season which was, a few good cup games aside, completely horrible both in terms of results and the way we played.
It's funny how you're managing to remember the few highlights from a terrible season 25 years ago but struggling to remember 7 seasons of brilliant football and sacks of trophies which ended less than 15 years ago.

I had a season ticket in 92/93 but mercifully it was my first year at Uni so I didn't have to sit through that much but I remember the bits I did see. Man it was awful.
We only won 15 out of 42 league games and finished the season in 10th place, 7 points off the relegation zone.
We only scored 40 league goals in those 42 league games. :lol:
From mid-November till the end of the season we P27 W6 D9 L12 in the league, scoring 18 goals.
And this was a season you "thoroughly enjoyed" because of a few admittedly good cup triumphs (which were also awful games of football by the way but I guess when you've pub-teamed a 1-0 in the FA Cup Semi-Final vs Spurs you don't care too much about the quality).

As I said, I don't think Wenger has the ability to do better but I do believe he wants to deeply. Unlike the board who are quite happy to sit back and count the money.

Why is any of this relevant?

Who is top of the league right now? Where were they at this stage last season? What did they do to correct the problem? They sacked a manager that had previously brought them sack loads of trophies. This isn't marriage, it's competitive sport. And Wenger hasn't been doing charity work all this time.

[Letters]

Why is any of this relevant?

Who is top of the league right now? Where were they at this stage last season? What did they do to correct the problem? They sacked a manager that had previously brought them sack loads of trophies. This isn't marriage, it's competitive sport. And Wenger hasn't been doing charity work all this time.

What else is there to debate any more? :shrug:

Apart from religion of course and I haven't ignored your post in BW, I will reply ##

[Niall_Quinn]

Well that burns away all my optimism that he will be gone at the end of the season

We apparently have to tolerate mediocrity because he can't bear to tear himself away from football

So essentially we have it confirmed, our manager is putting his own interests before that of the club

I think I'll be gone at the end of the season if he stays though. Not as any sort of futile protest, but more because I can't see myself being able to muster the enthusiasm to go through the tiresome and predictable cycle all over again.

[Niall_Quinn]

What else is there to debate any more? :shrug:

Apart from religion of course and I haven't ignored your post in BW, I will reply ##

Sneaky PM on the side again? You saucy git.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think I'll be gone at the end of the season if he stays though. Not as any sort of futile protest, but more because I can't see myself being able to muster the enthusiasm to go through the tiresome and predictable cycle all over again.

I don't think you'll be the only one frankly.

[Letters]

I think I'll be gone at the end of the season if he stays though. Not as any sort of futile protest, but more because I can't see myself being able to muster the enthusiasm to go through the tiresome and predictable cycle all over again.

Keep saying it, if Wenger doesn't go then the only thing which will change things is for a mass boycott. And while a near empty stadium at the Bayern game would send some message, the fact is they already have the money so, to an extent, they probably don't care. But season ticket renewal time is coming up, that's people's chance to vote with their wallets.

[Niall_Quinn]

Keep saying it, if Wenger doesn't go then the only thing which will change things is for a mass boycott. And while a near empty stadium at the Bayern game would send some message, the fact is they already have the money so, to an extent, they probably don't care. But season ticket renewal time is coming up, that's people's chance to vote with their wallets.

How long is the waiting list now? Still very long I heard. I imagine they'd be delighted if the troublesome fans (who, after all, are to blame for all the problems) shipped out and more friendly consumer types walked in. It's not personal (by any stretch), it's just business.

[GP]

Hope he stays

[Niall_Quinn]

Hope he stays

He probably will.
http://www.justarsenal.com/a-lifelong-arsenal-season-ticket-holders-journey-to-disillusionment/49866

[AFC Leveller]

The money argument doesn't wash anymore because we have the resources but have spent them on mediocre players.

This season we spent 70 mill on a defender and DCM and we are back to where we were last season (only worse). Our issues over the last couple of years have been on the pitch as much as off it.

If you look at some our recent expensive buys and compare them to those at Chelsea for example, you'll see that we have fucked up big time. Hazard was 32m, Ozil was 42, which one would you rather have? Kante was 35, Xhaka was 35, which one would you rather have? mustafi was 35, David Luiz was 32, which one has had a better season and is the better defender? The argument that we can't compete with those clubs is old and doesn't stand anymore. We fail these days for various reasons but not spending is not one of them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Erm I'd still rather have Mustafi than David Luiz

Hazard was bought from Lille, Ozil from Real Madrid it makes a difference in terms of how much you pay

Kante and Xhaka two different types of player

Let's be fair how many players have we spent vasts amounts of money on, Mustafi and Xhaka came to us in a summer where everyone was playing top whack for players not much better than average....part of the market we are in.

Let's not pretend Alonso and Luiz were inspired signings and not made out of desperation by Conte, he's just done well to get the best out of them

[mastermind84]

He seems pretty unrepentant, oblivious to the idea it might be himself at fault. It sounds like he's feeling under-appreciated for the consistent lack of success he's brought over the last decade. Of course he'll view all the big numbers on the balance sheet as the ultimate success. He's not in the same place as the fans on any level. So it wouldn't surprise me if he stayed and thought he was doing us a huge favour, despite our ingratitude.

And tbh, I would be fine with his attitude if the board didnt agree wit him.

That "I will manage here or somewhere else" line lets me know that he is staying because the board do not actually want to work. Its not the worst time, but this club isnt going to be great.

[AFC Leveller]

Erm I'd still rather have Mustafi than David Luiz

Hazard was bought from Lille, Ozil from Real Madrid it makes a difference in terms of how much you pay

Kante and Xhaka two different types of player

Let's be fair how many players have we spent vasts amounts of money on, Mustafi and Xhaka came to us in a summer where everyone was playing top whack for players not much better than average....part of the market we are in.

Let's not pretend Alonso and Luiz were inspired signings and not made out of desperation by Conte, he's just done well to get the best out of them

My point is we have the money and our recent big buys haven't taken us to the next level. We had the chance to sign cesc for much less than what Chelsea paid for him but chose to stick with average players like Ramsay. Cesc is a much better playmaker and midfielder than Ozil and his numbers back it up, he used to turn up in the big games and was so passionate.

We finished 3rd and 4th without these guys and are finishing there with them so they have failed to take us to the next level.

[Ernesto]

The almost murderously ravenous approach by the media to hound out Wenger is unsettling. No matter where we stand on the Wenger issue as fans, I despise their approach.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The almost murderously ravenous approach by the media to hound out Wenger is unsettling. No matter where we stand on the Wenger issue as fans, I despise their approach.

Fuck it, I hate to say it but he needs to be hounded out

It's abundantly clear that he won't leave any other way. I don't like the sports media in this country but if it does us a solid I say let them.

[Ernesto]

Fuck it, I hate to say it but he needs to be hounded out

It's abundantly clear that he won't leave any other way. I don't like the sports media in this country but if it does us a solid I say let them.

It's the double standards that really riles me. Wenger and Trump are painted as public enemy number 1. And 2. :/

[Niall_Quinn]

It's the double standards that really riles me. Wenger and Trump are painted as public enemy number 1. And 2. :/

Would be quite funny if Wenger started referring to them as fake news. That's a trend that could save the planet.

They already had their main fake news piece blown up, the dispute in the dressing room after the game with Alexis storming off and travelling separately. All false. For a long time now 99% of "journalists" are click-baiters rather than reporters of facts. Of course they'll be all over this, not because it is personal, not because they give a shit about double standards, not because they have any concerns about the truth - but for the clicks. Not just the sports journos, all of them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's the double standards that really riles me. Wenger and Trump are painted as public enemy number 1. And 2. :/

Wenger is not being treated as public enemy, he's being treated like someone who has been protected from criticism for too long. I do think Wenger is able to accept reality of the situation he's facing, he's just playing for time. He's still holding out hope to get enough positive results on the board to sign up to a new deal without a fan revolt.

Trump is someone who is mentally unable to accept any criticism and descends into a lunatic rambling session where he derides Fake News and comes out with things that are demonstrably false. I think it's fair he especially should come under media scrutiny because he's essentially the most powerful man on the planet and even putting aside everything else he seems psychologically unstable.
Trump doesn't drink, but would anyone have been surprised if it had been revealed he was intoxicated during that press conference.... I don't think so because it was the kind of babbling that you'd associate with someone who was drunk.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Watched the Arsenal fan tv vs Gary Neville thing

Half an hour I'll never get back

Give credit to DT who I've often derided as an inarticulate thug, he made by far made the most pertinent and relevant remarks unlike Moh who was trying to cross examine Neville without actually saying anything of relevance.

Neville is a class A bell end

[GP]

I don't like Neville much but he came across okay.

I think Claude was asleep throughout.

Troopz was embarrassing as usual.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't like Neville much but he came across okay.

I think Claude was asleep throughout.

Troopz was embarrassing as usual.

I actually thought Troopz made a good point, that people are dismissing what he says because of how he says it, yeah we mock him for the constant use of blood and fam but is his point any less informed than the overpaid and banal tv pundits.

Neville hiding behind this tired bollocks of stability, we don't need stability we need progression. If he was talking in 2011, ok fair enough but not now it's just a lazy uninformed load of shite that no one brought him up on.

Fair enough he shouldn't apologise for saying what he thinks, I would have just made the point that saying what he thinks exemplifies the fact that he's an idiot, and a very well paid one at that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is not being treated as public enemy, he's being treated like someone who has been protected from criticism for too long. I do think Wenger is able to accept reality of the situation he's facing, he's just playing for time. He's still holding out hope to get enough positive results on the board to sign up to a new deal without a fan revolt.

Trump is someone who is mentally unable to accept any criticism and descends into a lunatic rambling session where he derides Fake News and comes out with things that are demonstrably false. I think it's fair he especially should come under media scrutiny because he's essentially the most powerful man on the planet and even putting aside everything else he seems psychologically unstable.
Trump doesn't drink, but would anyone have been surprised if it had been revealed he was intoxicated during that press conference.... I don't think so because it was the kind of babbling that you'd associate with someone who was drunk.

Almost certainly you have it reversed. It sounds painfully obvious Wenger can't admit any of his failings to himself. Only a fool would come out and criticise the fans, or somebody who has convinced himself beyond the ability to reason that he's correct and the exasperating fools around him just can't see it. The comment about European success before he arrived was very revealing, I thought. It shows that in his mind Arsenal is Wenger and Wenger is Arsenal and that there was nothing of significance before.

As for Trump, watch his interviews before he became a public figure. This is a well rehearsed and devastatingly effective act. He's destroying CNN as an example to the rest of them and apart from the more extreme outlets for fake news, such as the WSJ, the rest are slowly starting to pay heed. They may be kicking, they may be screaming, but if Trump's team get their way they may just end up as journalists again. We'll see but right now it looks like there can be only one winner. Don't think Uncle Tom in his command post down the road will be able to save them either.

[Niall_Quinn]

BTW, I'll make a prediction. I bet Trump and CNN are getting on like a house on fire (what a stupid saying, but you know what I mean) by this time next year.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So what you're saying is a man who lies so pathologically that he doesn't understand the difference between truth and lies is well positioned to instruct journalists on how to report factually?.

I've seen many things Trump has said before he became president, indicative of a man who has been rich enough to orchaestrate his own unique brand of reality which is whatever he wants it to be at any given time.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

BTW, I'll make a prediction. I bet Trump and CNN are getting on like a house on fire (what a stupid saying, but you know what I mean) by this time next year.

If CNN become a mentally gymnastic propaganda arm for his administration I'm sure that will be true.

[Niall_Quinn]

I actually thought Troopz made a good point, that people are dismissing what he says because of how he says it, yeah we mock him for the constant use of blood and fam but is his point any less informed than the overpaid and banal tv pundits.

Neville hiding behind this tired bollocks of stability, we don't need stability we need progression. If he was talking in 2011, ok fair enough but not now it's just a lazy uninformed load of shite that no one brought him up on.

Fair enough he shouldn't apologise for saying what he thinks, I would have just made the point that saying what he thinks exemplifies the fact that he's an idiot, and a very well paid one at that.

I thought all of them did pretty well really, although with Moh it was more of a performance as usual. DT was on his best manners but made a coherent case. Claude got the question in about Rooney's dive which was the best moment of the interview and Troopz reminded the media that fans wot aren't posh are still entitled to follow the game. Neville's fake offence to the idea he manufactured himself that he wasn't a fan was far more hammed up than Troopz down to earth effort. Moh was Moh. Robbie could easily do a job on Sky too. People have to admit, he's brought his channel a long way in a relatively short time.

[Niall_Quinn]

If CNN stop being a mentally gymnastic propaganda arm for the establishment I'm sure that will be true.

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

So what you're saying is a man who lies so pathologically that he doesn't understand the difference between truth and lies is well positioned to instruct journalists on how to report factually?.

I've seen many things Trump has said before he became president, indicative of a man who has been rich enough to orchaestrate his own unique brand of reality which is whatever he wants it to be at any given time.

Oh good grief. You're accusing a politician of manufacturing reality? Behave. Of course he is, that's his job. What do you expect him to do?

So are you suggesting the media is reporting the truth?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:gp:

The establishment that's so establishment it's not actually in power

What Australians have to say is seldom of any interest to me but Bill Turnbull hit the nail on the head when he says a politician complaining about the media is like a sailor complaining about the sea.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So are you suggesting the media is reporting the truth?

It's all relative, I take anything reported by the media with a pinch of salt

I take anything spoken by Trump to be either a conscious lie, simple misinformation because he doesn't know what the truth is or just another exercise in grandiosity.

[Niall_Quinn]

The establishment that's so establishment it's not actually in power

What Australians have to say is seldom of any interest to me but Bill Turnbull hit the nail on the head when he says a politician complaining about the media is like a sailor complaining about the sea.

Which is only relevant if the goal is to complain. So therefore, irrelevant.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Which is only relevant if the goal is to complain. So therefore, irrelevant.

The goal is to try and create a media that is pliant and only reports on him favourably, and it's unlikely to succeed

[Niall_Quinn]

The goal is to try and create a media that is pliant and only reports on him favourably, and it's unlikely to succeed

Styxenhammer666 (IIRC) is a decent enough place to start on US politics. Just ignore the satanic stuff, each to his own.

But Wenger was the main point anyway, he's delusional as far as I can see.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhHRoCDH2R4

His main reaction is disappointment?

What happened to anger?

That's the problem.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I thought all of them did pretty well really, although with Moh it was more of a performance as usual. DT was on his best manners but made a coherent case. Claude got the question in about Rooney's dive which was the best moment of the interview and Troopz reminded the media that fans wot aren't posh are still entitled to follow the game. Neville's fake offence to the idea he manufactured himself that he wasn't a fan was far more hammed up than Troopz down to earth effort. Moh was Moh. Robbie could easily do a job on Sky too. People have to admit, he's brought his channel a long way in a relatively short time.

I think Robbie has done an exceptional job, he is very good at playing devils advocate to get the kind of responses from his regulars (the old hold up, hold up). Arsenal fan TV is probably the most widely known Fan channel in the country. He was even invited onto BBC to do the FA cup predictions.

I don't know what his full time job is, but he is certainly very media savvy.

[Ernesto]

The media hounding of AW is unjustified. He treats them with dignity, turns up to difficult press conferences and answers frankly unlike some others who walk out, go monosyllabic

The beeb is as bad as the rest of them - always looking for the downside in AW, Ranieri, Trump etc and the upside in Blair and Obama

I want objective news not social media gossip


From the BBC have your say article on Wenger

[Niall_Quinn]

The media hounding of AW is unjustified. He treats them with dignity, turns up to difficult press conferences and answers frankly unlike some others who walk out, go monosyllabic

The beeb is as bad as the rest of them - always looking for the downside in AW, Ranieri, Trump etc and the upside in Blair and Obama

I want objective news not social media gossip


From the BBC have your say article on Wenger

Wenger has had an incredibly easy ride from the media for 20 years, maybe 19 because he had to undergo the "Wenger who" phase when he arrived. Even now most of them are queuing up to say he should stay because of all the things he did the in past. I'd call that the easiest and most comfortable of rides given the circumstances. But now, the end is near and Wenger is facing his final curtain. He did it his way and now he's facing the music. Of course they have to report on it and ask him tough questions. It's about bloody time really. We've had 13 years of softballs (I mean the questions not Wenger's players) in response to repeated failure to deliver. Any other manager would have been ripped to shreds by now. That doesn't make it right but the idea Wenger should continue to get an easy ride on the back of a repeat of last year's calamity at this stage of the season is similar to people saying he can't be criticised because he's done so much for the club. Pretty much what Neville was saying in the interview with Arsenal Fan TV. Surely a manager at a football club is judged by his ongoing performances? And with Wenger it has been a decade. When would be the right time to say hold on matey, what's going on here?

[Niall_Quinn]

Robbie and the lads top story on the Mail sports page. The article just goes to prove everything they were saying, it is a 100% one-sided piece in support of Neville and Wenger. There is a full transcript at the end but the headline and the copy in its entirety argues Neville's position and doesn't mention a word from any of the other 5 involved. Must be more of that media respect.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4235766/Neville-insists-Wenger-deserves-respect-Arsenal-Fan-TV.html

[Niall_Quinn]

February 20 Sutton United (A)
March 4 Liverpool (A)
March 7 Bayern Munich (H)
March 11 Leicester City (H)
March 18 West Brom (A)


Those 3 in bold could easily be loss, humiliation, loss and might be the final, final, final, final, final nail in his coffin. I bet we do Leicester a massive favour.

[Marc Overmars]

I think Robbie has done an exceptional job, he is very good at playing devils advocate to get the kind of responses from his regulars (the old hold up, hold up). Arsenal fan TV is probably the most widely known Fan channel in the country. He was even invited onto BBC to do the FA cup predictions.

I don't know what his full time job is, but he is certainly very media savvy.

AFTV is his full time job now, I remember he mentioned that in a Q&A not too long ago.

Fair play to him, he must put in a lot of hours on match days to get the content. Can't help but respect what he has done. He's making a living from watching the club he loves, that's a pretty sweet gig.

[Marc Overmars]

I think they missed a bit of a trick though, in fact it was a wasted opportunity. Instead of massaging their own egos about how valued their opinions should be, they should have had a proper chat with Neville about Wenger and Groundhog Day, maybe tried to get him to see things from a fans point of view.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think they missed a bit of a trick though, in fact it was a wasted opportunity. Instead of massaging their own egos about how valued their opinions should be, they should have had a proper chat with Neville about Wenger and Groundhog Day, maybe tried to get him to see things from a fans point of view.

Sky and Neville and all the lawyers would have agreed to a format beforehand.

[Power n Glory]

The almost murderously ravenous approach by the media to hound out Wenger is unsettling. No matter where we stand on the Wenger issue as fans, I despise their approach.

I'm not defending or standing by Wenger when he's unwilling to stand by and defend the fans when we're getting attacked by the media. He shows no empathy and just feeds into the narrative created by Neville and other pundits. He talks as if the criticism from the fans is unreasonable and rather than spin the question and say our fans are passionate and want the best for this club, he lectures us on how we should support, needing to be like other fans and has constantly jabbed away when we've said we need to spend in the transfer window. All those everyone's an expert comments he makes, it's a jab aimed at the fans. We've got to see this for what it is.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

AFTV is his full time job now, I remember he mentioned that in a Q&A not too long ago.

Fair play to him, he must put in a lot of hours on match days to get the content. Can't help but respect what he has done. He's making a living from watching the club he loves, that's a pretty sweet gig.

Yep, the club might be in a bad way but yeah I agree that is a sweet gig.

[Marc Overmars]

I'm not defending or standing by Wenger when he's unwilling to stand by and defend the fans when we're getting attacked by the media. He shows no empathy and just feeds into the narrative created by Neville and other pundits. He talks as if the criticism from the fans is unreasonable and rather than spin the question and say our fans are passionate and want the best for this club, he lectures us on how we should support, needing to be like other fans and has constantly jabbed away when we've said we need to spend in the transfer window. All those everyone's an expert comments he makes, it's a jab aimed at the fans. We've got to see this for what it is.

Yep, I'm sure he holds the fans in contempt. He will be respected for his past but his current work deserves every bit of scrutiny it gets. Hound him out I say, he's lived a charmed life for too long.

[AFC Leveller]

The comments about how Arsenal haven't won any European cups and didn't play many CL games before came tell me that one of the reasons why he didn't go to Madrid or Bayern was because of their history and pressure to win he wouldn't last a season without silverware and wouldn't be able to come out with such statements. He says he turned down many clubs to stay with us but it's not like he's doing us a favour, he's been paid loads of money and given the freedom to do what he wants as long as he wants.

[Maestro]

@GeoffArsenal sometimes i wish we would go through what manu did after wenger just to teach WOB a lesson or two #AWbiggerthanallofyoucunt

One of quite a few I have seen. There are Arsenal fans out there who actively want to see the club go to ruin if he leaves, just so they prove a point and say I told you so.

The more and more I think about it, he's not going anywhere because not enough fans want him gone

[Niall_Quinn]

@GeoffArsenal sometimes i wish we would go through what manu did after wenger just to teach WOB a lesson or two #AWbiggerthanallofyoucunt

One of quite a few I have seen. There are Arsenal fans out there who actively want to see the club go to ruin if he leaves, just so they prove a point and say I told you so.

The more and more I think about it, he's not going anywhere because not enough fans want him gone

There are two sets of fans now. The one's who want to see the club succeed, and the ones completely brainwashed and whipped by Wenger. It's like a cult. Reality can't intrude into their little space of worship. You can see what this cunt is saying, he'd rather have Arsenal destroyed than Wenger leave. He's a Wenger fan, not an Arsenal fan.

[Niall_Quinn]

Twitter is a really, really fucked up place filled with very, very fucked up people. I went on there to find this GeoffWenger cunt and by the time I had scrolled through a couple of pages of the cunt's dick sucking tweets and all the fucking loons who reply (John Cross included, for sure), I only had one thing on my mind. What the fuck am I doing here? Who want's anything to do with these absolute fucking tossers? First time I have been on twatter for a while and it seems it just keeps getting worse and worse. The dregs of the earth are on there from what I can see.

[Marc Overmars]

Wishing we fall away just to stick it to those who want a change. :lol:

Unfortunately that's going to be the next problem we encounter with the morons amongst our fanbase. Most of us know we're not going to magically win title after title, there will be a transitional period and these guys will probably use any bump in the road to pine after Wenger and tell everyone they told you so. Therefore deepening the divide.

[Power n Glory]

Arsene FC! :doh: Wenger will be remembered for the good but this bad spell will have a lasting effect and will be part of his legacy. From the fans being split down to the way this club is run by the owners.

The self sustaining stadium model and idea that the main bulk of revenue should come from the fans and not from outside investors is something he's championed and backed from day one. Anyone with a problem with Stan and co have to really look at Wenger's words when looking into this. He's backed price hikes, has said £62 for a ticket is 'fair' and has compared the Emirates experience to going the the theater. He seems nonchalant on the issue with no real concern for fans who are priced out and just bluntly says you can either afford to or can't.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/arsene-wenger-defends-ticket-prices-at-arsenal-8447839.html
http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/11/arsene-wenger-angers-arsenal-fans-by-insisting-62-ticket-prices-are-fair-3348188/

It's the sour and sweet. He's brought us the trophies, great football to watch and a great stadium but it's ushered in high ticket, an owner that embraces his hands off mantra when it comes to financing the club and attitude that the fans are just customers. Worse than customers in fact. Viewers! Wenger represents what's great about the club but also what we all hate. It's too far gone to try and wash away the shitty parts and when he's gone we'll have a constant reminder if it goes from bad to worse. He's had the ear of Stan for a long time now and they all respect his opinion but I haven't once heard about him using his influence to sway Stan to change course on the above issues.

[AFC Leveller]

The telegraph running a story about Wenger wanting a 4 year contract. They have direct quotes from him saying he is 4 years younger than when Fergie retired and he doesn't feel tired at all.

Would be a nightmare if he signed a new deal, just horrible.

[Chippy]

The telegraph running a story about Wenger wanting a 4 year contract. They have direct quotes from him saying he is 4 years younger than when Fergie retired and he doesn't feel tired at all.

Would be a nightmare if he signed a new deal, just horrible.
On SSN now saying that Wumger wants to stay at Arsenal! FFS! Please just fuck off! He is fucking mad!

[Marc Overmars]

Seems like he doesn't have a life outside of football and that's the issue. We can only hope he gets an offer from somewhere to tempt him away.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is what I said. Fans need to keep the pressure on. Instead they are begging. People need to stand up now and shout GTFO!

[Niall_Quinn]

This is so Wenger though. Fans are wondering if he'll do the club a terrible disservice by staying on for 2 more years, or will he do the honourable thing and go.

In reality - different planet. It's not the 2 years that bothers him, he wants 4! Total delusion.

[Ernesto]

With Wenger leaving, we're bound to get a "yes man" in. The board will try and replace like for like. That's not to say better the devil you know than the devil you don't. I can only hope that the replacement we get is scared of failure and scared of getting the sack after a damaging defeat, thus spurring him on to get better results.

As for the Gary Neville stuff, I'm surprised no-one questioned him on the "idiot" stuff. Granted, if a fan came on the pitch and hit a player, yes, he's an idiot. But for carrying a sign, without any foul language on it? The hypocritical thing is, if anyone watched the match listening to the commentary, Neville spent the whole game moaning about Arsenal's failure to compete in the big games in recent years, conveniently forgetting the common denominator behind that- Wenger. It's, as a lot of people have said on the this thread already, all about the status quo. Wenger is part of the footballing establishment. Neville spouting regurgitated rubbish but making it seem fresh is part of the norm. The managerial merry go round has the same old 5 or 6 faces. God forbids someone upsets that ecosystem. Leicester won the league? Let's sweep that under the carpet. Chelsea are winning it now. Let's all hail them and forget about how and why they are where they are.

As for Arsenal Fan TV, Robbie has done a great job but I'm kinda losing the love for it. It's the same old angry faces. When some of the videos were first uploaded on here, there'd be interviews with some of the regular, run-of-the-mill gooners who would encapsulate our feelings in a video less than a minute long. I'm getting to the point where I can't watch it any more.

[Power n Glory]

With Wenger leaving, we're bound to get a "yes man" in. The board will try and replace like for like. That's not to say better the devil you know than the devil you don't. I can only hope that the replacement we get is scared of failure and scared of getting the sack after a damaging defeat, thus spurring him on to get better results.


The Max Allegri stories seem to be doing the rounds and he even joked about learning English. I can't imagine another coach lacking the same sort of drive and ambition I've seen from Wenger. Also, it's a tactical thing. Conte hasn't blown a lot of money on his team this year. He had to work with what he was given and find a new system. I think if we find someone that isn't burnt out and has a tactical brain, we'll be fine. I think the Board are smart enough to know that we need success quickly after Wenger is gone.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think it's incredibly hard to predict what life would be like at Arsenal post Wenger, this man controls every footballing aspect of the club, so we'd likely see a very different set up. Wenger isn't a yes man to the board, the board are yes men to him because they don't have his understanding of football so they defer completely to him.

As much as I think Wenger is ultimately motivated by hubris and fear of retirement, I don't think it's for fans to tell him whether he should retire or not....we have the right only to tell him that we don't want him at the club and as this vocal message is the majority it would say nothing good about him if he chose not to heed it.

How long he stays in management is up to him, I honestly think if there was a club prepared to take him. I would wish him well but the important thing is he has no one to push him or set him goals above and beyond getting in the top four. I genuinely believe Ivan Gazidis will have leverage over a new man in a way he doesn't with Wenger, I think Gazidis bringing coaching staff into the club suggests he wants to have control over the structure of the club.

[Ernesto]

How long he stays in management is up to him, I honestly think if there was a club prepared to take him. I would wish him well but the important thing is he has no one to push him or set him goals above and beyond getting in the top four. I genuinely believe Ivan Gazidis will have leverage over a new man in a way he doesn't with Wenger, I think Gazidis bringing coaching staff into the club suggests he wants to have control over the structure of the club.

If the rumours are true, Barcelona seems a sure bet for wenger next season should he leave Arsenal

[Özim]

If the rumours are true, Barcelona seems a sure bet for wenger next season should he leave Arsenal

This would be fantastic, we get rid of him and seriosly sabotage one of the biggest clubs in Europe in the process, it's win win, though to be fair Barca have such good players they can probably overcome Wengers shortcomings!

[Bumble]

Maybe the Lincoln manager now. They matched the result we got at Burnley and if we beat Sutton he can have a look around the facilities and the comfy seats. Odds are probably good too.

[AFC Leveller]

Ancelotti would be a decent choice as well. Won everything across 4 leagues and could make it 5 this season. According to the Supplement, he was regularly at the club after he left Chelsea and would be really interested.

[Bumble]

Ancelotti would be a decent choice as well. Won everything across 4 leagues and could make it 5 this season. According to the Supplement, he was regularly at the club after he left Chelsea and would be really interested.

Top manager but he has only just joined Bayern and unless they sack him he wont be moving. He also a lot more likely to win things at Bayern.

[The Dismantler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFfaRzvxAqs

[Niall_Quinn]

This guy.

http://northlondonisred.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/wenger.jpg

[The Dismantler]

Eddie Howe would be like man u's appointment of david moyes...

dont want to see Eddie Howe anywhere near Arsenal stadium...

and at 39 I can see the board sticking with him for the next 21 years till he's 60!!!

damn you Wenger

[Marc Overmars]

I like Howe but we're going to need someone more accomplished. A young British manager getting one of the top jobs will never happen, they're just not good enough.

[Dicks and chicks]

I like Howe but we're going to need someone more accomplished. A young British manager getting one of the top jobs will never happen, they're just not good enough.

Howe is shit in the transfer market

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I like Howe but we're going to need someone more accomplished. A young British manager getting one of the top jobs will never happen, they're just not good enough.

How about your mum? I hear she's pretty accomplished at [Add Pejorative remark heavily intimating Sexual promiscuity here]

[Niall_Quinn]

Howe is shit in the transfer market

He'll fit right in here then.

[Özim]

He'll fit right in here then.

:lol: Exactly right!