Arsenal vs Leicester City April 26th 19:45 KO

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The league largely feels like fixture fulfilment now, although with the Palace loss for Liverpool...a win tonight and a defeat for United tomorrow puts us back in the hunt (inexplicably).

Top 4 and an fa cup win gives Wenger all the leverage not to change anything about his chaotic and haphazard approach to football management....so not sure how desirable it is.

But if we can render Spurs finishing above us into a pointless exercise for them, that'll be kind of fun at least.

Before Sunday I thought we'd win this game, so no reason to change that belief

2-0

[Letters]

3-0
Ozil hat-trick
#WengerOut

[Marc Overmars]

Won't be easy but we should have enough confidence restored to get through this.

2-1.

#2moreyears

[GP]

4-0

[Niall_Quinn]

3 at the back an the slow one said, roll over, rollover, so they all rolled over...

[Xhaka Can’t]

Never mind this, I got an email saying I have priority access to Emirates Cup tickets! :woohoo:

[Marc Overmars]

Same here!





It was swiftly deleted.

[Munchies]

#2moreyears

it's happening isn't it lol

ffs

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Our team. :lol:

[Gooner23]

Poor old Elneny, not sure why he is below Ramsey and Coquelin in the pecking order.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Never mind this, I got an email saying I have priority access to Emirates Cup tickets! :woohoo:

Yeah I got that, which made me worried as I cancelled my red membership a year ago

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Poor old Elneny, not sure why he is below Ramsey and Coquelin in the pecking order.

Probably doesn't like veiny wrinkly old man cock

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ah Tony Gale co-commentating.

Great.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Xhaka belts it, sky high.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Tony Gale just needs to STFU.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not indulging this shit. Sanchez in total isolation, Ozil playing like an absolute pussy, Walcott chasing shadows....

[Niall_Quinn]

If Drinkwater is not getting a card for that then we might as well pack it and go home. No point seeing careers ended just for 3 points.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Schmeichel saves from Theo.

[Power n Glory]

Finally, a shot!

[Niall_Quinn]

Walcott needs to be subbed. That shot was deliberate.

[GP]

Better

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fuchs clears it away rather than gift us a goal. Twat.

[Globalgunner]

Had to turn the volume down. Tony Gale encouraging Wenger to sign the contract and asking why Giroux isn't playing. How many goals has Giroux scored in games he has started you plonker?

[Niall_Quinn]

Not sure what's up with Xhaka. Every time he gets the ball he's trying to pass it towards the opponent's goal :doh:

[GP]

Giroux

Who?

[Niall_Quinn]

Who?

Lamppost

[Globalgunner]

Who?

My Samsung phone prefers that spelling

[Power n Glory]

Switched off. Same shit, different toilet.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

That was abysmal from Theo.

[Niall_Quinn]

What utter, total nonsense this is. Wengerball, pointless, boring, soul crushing. The one thing we had left was decent football but for years now the twat has shat all over our game with his fucked up tippy tap bullshit.

Fucking tip tap tip tap. Keep tapping it until you lose the ball.

[GP]

ffs Theo

[Niall_Quinn]

TIP TAP TIP TAP - WTF??!!!!

What the fuck is wrong with these players? What the fuck has Wenger done to them?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Alexis smashes the bar.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-0 HT. :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

GET THE FUCK OUT WENGER!!!!

JUST FUCK OFF YOU FUCK!!!!

Bayern Munich? Is that what that was?

[Niall_Quinn]

73% possession. That's all Wenger cares about.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

TIP TAP TIP TAP - WTF??!!!!

What the fuck is wrong with these players? What the fuck has Wenger done to them?


Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass - give away the ball

That's the BBC sport text commentary

[Niall_Quinn]

Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass - give away the ball

That's the BBC sport text commentary

Not like them to put real news on their site.

It's appalling. Never seen football this pointless. Not even Barca under Pep.

[Marc Overmars]

Not watching. Have precious little interest in the remaining league games bar Spurs and United.

Sounds thrilling as usual.

[Globalgunner]

Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass - give away the ball

That's the BBC sport text commentary

There were quite a few misplaced passes you missed in that chain

[Niall_Quinn]

All season long, on the odd occasions when we've upped the tempo and played more direct we've seen the football transformed and we've been rewarded. So what exactly is going on inside Wenger's addled brain? Is he not capable of sitting them down and saying, attack the fucking goal!? The only conclusion is he wants them playing this way. It's all him.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Come on Arsenal you berks.

[Niall_Quinn]

Coquelin and Alexis have been Leicester's two most creative players tonight. Great passing.

[Niall_Quinn]

OMG. Ozil gets a gift and just tips it to the opposition.

[Niall_Quinn]

LOL - FK to Leicester for the foul on Theo.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fuchs booked.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Hoof was holding him, Gale.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Hoof pubs it away accidentally.

[Niall_Quinn]

Finally, some football.

[Power n Glory]

All season long, on the odd occasions when we've upped the tempo and played more direct we've seen the football transformed and we've been rewarded. So what exactly is going on inside Wenger's addled brain? Is he not capable of sitting them down and saying, attack the fucking goal!? The only conclusion is he wants them playing this way. It's all him.

The mantra is for the players to keep calm, not to panic and an opportunity will present itself. Even if he tells them to play quicker or more aggressive...it's abstract. Without real structure or specific instructions, we're stuff and just have to individual brilliance will bail us out.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Xhaka shot, deflected, Schmeichel saves.

[Niall_Quinn]

Give it up. Bellerin could have smashed that but the bottle smashed instead.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Theo. :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Walcott - dear lord.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Koscielny header, straight at Schmeichel.

[Niall_Quinn]

Poor effort from Kos.

[Globalgunner]

Absolute brain dead football. Snatch the ball race ahead of the opposition defenders. Then stop and wait for them all to get back into position before we try to pass it through them. So stupid it is brilliant.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Welbz on his way to cause havoc.

For both teams.

[Globalgunner]

Ox played so well the last few games he deserved to be benched

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Gibbs off, Welbz on.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Tony Gale being an absolute cunt.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ulloa off, Okazaki on.

[Niall_Quinn]

Welbz on for the entirely ineffective Gibbs. Wenger switching to a back 4.

[Xhaka Can’t]

How is it going?

No doubt we are building on that momentum generated from Sunday!

[Niall_Quinn]

Ox played so well the last few games he deserved to be benched

He was injured against the gypos. But even so, if he's not fit to play 90 then why is he on the bench at all?

[Penguin]

What does Theo need to do to get subbed off?

[Niall_Quinn]

How is it going?

No doubt we are building on that momentum generated from Sunday!

We are 2% away from being watchable.

[Niall_Quinn]

Giroud and Ramsey coming on. If anyone is interested.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Coquelin and Theo hauled off, Ramsey and Bif on.

[Niall_Quinn]

Theo and Coq off. Both were desperately poor tonight.

Giroud and Ramsey on. Both will be desperately poor tonight.

[Penguin]

Giroud and Ramsey coming on. If anyone is interested.

Why are we bringing on more defenders for Leicester?

[Niall_Quinn]

Great flick by Ramsey in the box. Gives it straight to the opposition. Need more of those. Flicks, tricks, posing.

Meanwhile Xhaka being lectured for persistent fouling by Leicester all night.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not sure what happened to Kos. Landed badly I think. He's down and out.

[Niall_Quinn]

Kos back on.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Studs down the back, only a yellow.

:doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

Should have been a red for the bald guy. Plain as day. For some reason the ref gives a yellow. Incredible.

[Niall_Quinn]

Literally leaps into Giroud and rakes his studs down his back. No effort whatsoever to get the ball. Ref watching it all. Disgrace.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

And Xhaka booked. :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Dive by Mahrez - ref books Xhaka. Absolutely pathetic.

[Xhaka Can’t]

GB are 4-2 up against Lithuania

[Niall_Quinn]

Playing against 12 as usual.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Ben O'Connor makes it 5-2!!!!!!!

[Penguin]

Playing against 12 as usual.

13 if you count Wenger

[Niall_Quinn]

Ref blew an instant after the corner came in. For the 3rd time tonight. He's defended against our corners brilliantly tonight. Then again, so have our forwards.

[AFC Leveller]

13 if you count Wenger

13 against 8 if you take out Ramsay, Giroud and Bellerin

[Niall_Quinn]

13 if you count Wenger

16 if you count Wenger.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

HOOF OG!!!!

[Penguin]

Huth is allowed to put his arms all over our players and wrestle them to the ground on every set piece, yet somehow the ref keeps giving them a free kick against us. :doh:

[GP]

NACHOOOO!!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Pub special!!!!!!!

[Marc Overmars]

Goal

[Niall_Quinn]

But - Nacho proves you have to shoot to have a chance.

Yet again, if we play it towards the opposition goal we look more dangerous. Like any normal team, in fact.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger looks all at sea. He's asking the ref if he can bring Gibbs on again.

[AFC Leveller]

Ref looks gutted, still got time to turn this around mind

[Xhaka Can’t]

Arsene Wenger's Magic Hat!!!!!

[Globalgunner]

I think.Huth owns that.but I'll take it

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Agent 47 off, Gray on.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gale - first sign of a proper striker, as Bif shoots down a helicopter with his first effort.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Lithuania are on the PP - they are 1/5 so far tonight.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Alexis. :bow:

[GP]

Lithuania are on the PP - they are 1/5 so far tonight.

TOUCHDOWN!

[Niall_Quinn]

Has to be red surely? Yes. Alexis is play acting but you can't throw the ball at an opponent like that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

1 for 6 now.

Easy kill by GB

[GP]

Yellow for alexis for having the ball thrown at him.

Pathetic refereeing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nope, Alexis booked for having the ball thrown at him deliberately.

Can this be for real? Chavs and gypos, mancs and spuds diving all over the place and Alexis needs to be embarrassed?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yellow for alexis for having the ball thrown at him.

Pathetic refereeing.

At least its consistently pathetic.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gale more sore than usual over this one.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-0 FT!

:haha:

[GP]

Gale is crying for seventeen years.

[Niall_Quinn]

FT 1-0

Pure pub but 3 points. I've given up hoping for some football so I guess 3 points represents the best possible outcome.

[Marc Overmars]

Wonderful, top 4 trophy is coming home.

[Xhaka Can’t]

GB going to the box again but with just over 3 minutes left, it doesn't matter.

However, they will need to be more disciplined against Japan for the Gold medal game.

[Niall_Quinn]

69% possession. Not bad at all.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Great stuff Arsenal!

Wish it was enough to send those Leicester cunts down.

The cunts.

(GB killed that pen too - 1 minute left - its in the bag)

[Xhaka Can’t]

5-2 final score.

[AFC Leveller]

I believe as well that we have a lot on Sunday and I wanted to show that I like to play shit players even though they always let me down

[Letters]

Wenger :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Just seen a clip of Alexis going down clutching his face after the ball was thrown at his shoulder.

Footballers are just the worst.

[AFC Leveller]

How the fuck was the Leicester defender not sent off for that studs on the back challenge on Giroud?? Even Tony gale was surprised.

[Letters]

Just seen a clip of Alexis going down clutching his face after the ball was thrown at his shoulder.

Footballers are just the worst.

Aye, and I think that sort of nonsense is a factor in the modern game, I don't think you got players in the 70s doing that.
They cheated in other ways of course, often by kicking lumps out of one another, but they weren't such utter fannies

[Letters]

Yellow for alexis for having the ball thrown at him.

Pathetic refereeing.

He actually got booked for holding his face and diving like a fanny having been hit on the shoulder.
Actually quite refereeing, what's pathetic is footballers doing this sort of thing and referees not dealing with it more consistently.

[GP]

He actually got booked for holding his face and diving like a fanny having been hit on the shoulder.
Actually quite refereeing, what's pathetic is footballers doing this sort of thing and referees not dealing with it more consistently.

I mean, he posted this on social media after the game

http://i.imgur.com/WnJVCQL.jpg

Indicating he was hit in the face

[Niall_Quinn]

He actually got booked for holding his face and diving like a fanny having been hit on the shoulder.
Actually quite refereeing, what's pathetic is footballers doing this sort of thing and referees not dealing with it more consistently.

He got booked for trying to delay a throw-in, which was bullshit given he'd been kicked around the pitch all night and the ref had done fuck all about it. Very selective was our ref. Some will say he had a bad night and made some errors but I'll call him what he is, a cheat. Like most of the refs if we are going to be fair about it and not "reasonable" as defined by the pundits and media.

Shakespeare, who is certainly no poet, set the tone by sending his players out to kick, punch and rake their way to a 0-0. What is being overlooked is that Leicester were as violent as they were shitty and unambitious. A joke performance from them which the media is trying to spin into an unfortunate loss. It was a well deserved loss because they put in a pathetic performance that focused on stopping us playing, by any means including blatant violence. There were several occasions where, right under the nose of the ref, they played the man with an intent to harm and harass, rather than the ball. The ref let 90% of it go, including one outrageous challenge that saw a defender leap at Giroud, boot raised and raking studs down his back. An obvious red for what was common assault.

So this was the environment in which Alexis decided to try his hand at his own bit of cheating. He'd spent the whole night asking the cheating ref to do something about the violence that had been directed at him. The ref declined. So Alexis adapted to the rules set down by the cheating ref. No luck though, the ref was so one-eyed he completely ignored the automatic booking that should have come from throwing a ball directly at an opponent's face, which was clearly the target. Because Alexis got his shoulder in the way makes no difference, the ball was aimed, with force, at his head.

But yes, Alexis contributed to perhaps 1% of the cheating going on last night by going down clutching his face. A rather standard move that you'll see multiple times a week in the PL. And you won't hear a comment about it from the pundits or media, especially if the player is a Barkley or Alli or Rooney or, basically, English. Today, of course, Alexis is branded on the front pages of the media, having cheated plucky and (ahem) "industrious" Leicester out of back-to-back title wins.

Question for Arsenal is this. If the refs are going to continue to buy into the tired old "Don't like it up 'em" and "Arsenal have a terrible disciplinary record" bullshit, and change the rules accordingly, should we just accept that and try to work past the disadvantage, or should we play the game that's obviously being played? Ref bias costs us points every season. Not as many points as bullshit management or complacent performances, but some points nonetheless. And we get a lot of injuries, not just because the refs allow our players to be kicked around the place, but that will still account for some of the time on the sidelines.

Cheating is part and parcel of the modern game. Everyone knows it's unpleasant, some say as much and those who have more to lose turn a blind eye. But it's there every week and we all know the names of the usual suspects and habitual offenders. If we are going to condone cheating, then let's condone it all. If we are going to call it out then let's name everyone and not be selective about it. You won't get that from the media though, they'd rather report the game with both their faces.

[Niall_Quinn]

I mean, he posted this on social media after the game

http://i.imgur.com/WnJVCQL.jpg

Indicating he was hit in the face

That would have been from one of the other punches, kicks or knife assaults he suffered during the game.

[Marc Overmars]

Wow, looks really bad. Poor guy.

[Letters]

I mean, he posted this on social media after the game

http://i.imgur.com/WnJVCQL.jpg

Indicating he was hit in the face


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z_cwQmP99k

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z_cwQmP99k

Interesting. So it DID hit him in the face. Well that makes the ref's decision even more ludicrous.

[Letters]

Pretty clearly hit him on the shoulder. Maybe it hit his face too but if it did he certainly took his time deciding it hurt and he needed to roll around on the ground like a Ronaldo.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It hit him in the shoulder and he's being a massive pussy

Does it change the atavistic behaviour of the Leicester players no, but it's Rivaldo in the World Cup all over again

[Power n Glory]

Who gives a fuck. Sanchez tried to con the ref a little. Happens to us all the time.

[Özim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z_cwQmP99k

lol I don't get the need to collapse, it was pretty clear to everyone that the Leicester guy threw the ball at him the collapse was pointless., deserved yellow for blatant cheating.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

lol I don't get the need to collapse, it was pretty clear to everyone that the Leicester guy threw the ball at him the collapse was pointless., deserved yellow for blatant cheating.

Odd, very Odd....I actually agree with you

[Niall_Quinn]

Who gives a fuck. Sanchez tried to con the ref a little. Happens to us all the time.

No, it never happens in every game. It's just Alexis. Or was it Pires? Or Eduardo? The media conducts, the orchestra plays.

[Letters]

lol I don't get the need to collapse, it was pretty clear to everyone that the Leicester guy threw the ball at him the collapse was pointless., deserved yellow for blatant cheating.

Well, agreed. But why don't refs punish this sort of nonsense all the time? If they did it consistently then maybe the precious little flowers would stop it.

[Power n Glory]

No, it never happens in every game. It's just Alexis. Or was it Pires? Or Eduardo? The media conducts, the orchestra plays.

It’s not worth the energy. I’m still ‘concerned’ by our performance. When we’ve got too much of the ball we have no idea how to break a team down. It’s not going to get any easier.

[Özim]

This is the usual rush toward top 4 we always seem to do isn't it, been awful this season but we're going on a mini run Wenger will then be able to tell everybody they were wrong (he has already hasn't he), sign his contract and pretend it's all good thus papering over the cracks.

You can already see it now, a few wins and the rebellion is disappearing and Wenger is becoming very smug again, citing, togetherness, hunger etc, after years of the same thing it gets very boring, sadly it looks like it's going to continue and Wenger will be sitting there with his bumper new contract at the end of the season, patting himself on the back on another good season and another season where he has proved everyone wrong and his players have proved they are good enough to win everything.

Seen this too many times now, an end of season mini unbeaten run after a disastrous collapse, seems to be happening again.

[Power n Glory]

This is the usual rush toward top 4 we always seem to do isn't it, been awful this season but we're going on a mini run Wenger will then be able to tell everybody they were wrong (he has already hasn't he), sign his contract and pretend it's all good thus papering over the cracks.

You can already see it now, a few wins and the rebellion is disappearing and Wenger is becoming very smug again, citing, togetherness, hunger etc, after years of the same thing it gets very boring, sadly it looks like it's going to continue and Wenger will be sitting there with his bumper new contract at the end of the season, patting himself on the back on another good season and another season where he has proved everyone wrong and his players have proved they are good enough to win everything.

Seen this too many times now, an end of season mini unbeaten run after a disastrous collapse, seems to be happening again.

I highly doubt we're on the verge of a mini run.

[Letters]

Even if we are on a mini-run (and I don't think we are either) the cracks are way too big to paper over.
Even I want him gone regardless of the end of the season, and this is me we're talking about. Me!
But I hope he leaves with another FA Cup under his belt, that would be nice. I don't think he will (either leave or win the FA Cup, I mean), but it would be nice. Don't care about a top 4 finish although I guess maintaining that record would be nice for him too.

[Marc Overmars]

This team is devoid of ideas and guile, I don't think we're going to do enough to finish 4th and frankly I'm not bothered anyway.

Just praying for a cup win and for Wenger to call it a day. Both seem very unlikely to me but oh well.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not sure there was much togetherness either, one of the worst attendances at the Emirates since we moved there (if not the worst) and these same fans booing the insipid pass the ball to death about as much penetration as a marshmallow willy football on display.

[Letters]

"marshmallow willy" :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s not worth the energy. I’m still ‘concerned’ by our performance. When we’ve got too much of the ball we have no idea how to break a team down. It’s not going to get any easier.

We have no idea how to break them down because we give them every assistance in maintaining their defensive cohesion and there's no better team than Arsenal at allowing an opponent to ease into a game at a nice sedate pace and get themselves set up and encouraged. It's pathetic. Wenger watches it every week and yet every week we get the slow motion start and the open invitation for the opposition. Said at the start of the season, Wenger has become an intense coward, afraid of his own shadow. His whole philosophy seems to be, if the opponent doesn't get the ball they can't hurt us. And so we get 99% possession and no attempts on goal.

The way the players have been drilled to look for the sideways pass first. The way they have been discouraged from having a go, maybe losing the ball but equally perhaps unsettling a defence with a burst of speed, a 50/50 pass into the danger zone, a first time cross, a snapshot. Or, for heavens sake Theo Walcott, a run at the defender and an attempt to beat him. When that defender knows you are going to hit him with pace relentlessly throughout a game then he'll be under pressure the whole game. But we don't do that. We helpfully relieve the pressure on our opponent until we grind into the last segment of the match and then might decide to pick up the tempo a bit.

This horrific approach to football has been developing for several seasons now and has taken us from being one of the best footballing teams in the league to the most boring, pointless non-entity. It has affected the players, the fans, the reputation of the club, the attitude of our opponents, everything and in a negative way. There are no upsides to how we play. No benefits, nothing. We can afford good enough players to scrape out a shitty trudge to a CL placing and that's the absolute limit. Wengerball has brought us nowhere near a title challenge.

And yet he won't change it. This is why I call him the worst manager in football. All the genuinely terrible managers get sacked pretty quickly. The rest of them at least have enough humility to accept they can learn from their mistakes and possibly improve. Wenger has zero humility, refuses to learn from his mistakes, has an ego spanning the entire club, seeping into every nook and cranny, unheard of control freakishness and NO RESULTS TO SHOW FOR ANY OF IT. And they WON'T SACK HIM. Therefore, we have ended up with, by far, the worst conceivable manager. A man who is destroying the club at every level but has such a flawed character he is determined to persist regardless.

Two more seasons, at least, of this? I doubt I could bear it. What would be the point of it? Life is short and can't be wasted on Wenger. I think fans who have any self regard will be obliged to part ways with the club if Wenger stays.

[GP]

"marshmallow willy" :lol:

That's you, that is.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's you, that is.

He knows. No need for you to rub him up the wrong way.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He knows. No need for you to rub him up the wrong way.

or in fact any way

[GP]

You can't tell me what to do.

[Niall_Quinn]

You can't tell me what to do.

We're telling you what not to do.

[Dein-machine]

We have no idea how to break them down because we give them every assistance in maintaining their defensive cohesion and there's no better team than Arsenal at allowing an opponent to ease into a game at a nice sedate pace and get themselves set up and encouraged. It's pathetic. Wenger watches it every week and yet every week we get the slow motion start and the open invitation for the opposition. Said at the start of the season, Wenger has become an intense coward, afraid of his own shadow. His whole philosophy seems to be, if the opponent doesn't get the ball they can't hurt us. And so we get 99% possession and no attempts on goal.

The way the players have been drilled to look for the sideways pass first. The way they have been discouraged from having a go, maybe losing the ball but equally perhaps unsettling a defence with a burst of speed, a 50/50 pass into the danger zone, a first time cross, a snapshot. Or, for heavens sake Theo Walcott, a run at the defender and an attempt to beat him. When that defender knows you are going to hit him with pace relentlessly throughout a game then he'll be under pressure the whole game. But we don't do that. We helpfully relieve the pressure on our opponent until we grind into the last segment of the match and then might decide to pick up the tempo a bit.

This horrific approach to football has been developing for several seasons now and has taken us from being one of the best footballing teams in the league to the most boring, pointless non-entity. It has affected the players, the fans, the reputation of the club, the attitude of our opponents, everything and in a negative way. There are no upsides to how we play. No benefits, nothing. We can afford good enough players to scrape out a shitty trudge to a CL placing and that's the absolute limit. Wengerball has brought us nowhere near a title challenge.

And yet he won't change it. This is why I call him the worst manager in football. All the genuinely terrible managers get sacked pretty quickly. The rest of them at least have enough humility to accept they can learn from their mistakes and possibly improve. Wenger has zero humility, refuses to learn from his mistakes, has an ego spanning the entire club, seeping into every nook and cranny, unheard of control freakishness and NO RESULTS TO SHOW FOR ANY OF IT. And they WON'T SACK HIM. Therefore, we have ended up with, by far, the worst conceivable manager. A man who is destroying the club at every level but has such a flawed character he is determined to persist regardless.

Two more seasons, at least, of this? I doubt I could bear it. What would be the point of it? Life is short and can't be wasted on Wenger. I think fans who have any self regard will be obliged to part ways with the club if Wenger stays.

:gp:

Was at the Palace game with a mate yesterday as its far more entertaining than being at my own club. If you look at the managers they have, Alardyce who saw the need to shore up his central defense & the need for a proper DM went out and got Sacko & the Serbian in Jan window - a little time to get the team settled into the new system & the results are plain to see. They were the better side in the 1st half yesterday. So much so, Pochahuntis decided to do the unthinkable in Wengers mind & make not one but 2 changes at half time. The Spuds then went on to dominate & win the game.
2 managers - totally different tactically but able to see what is required to shore up a leaky defense or to break down teams & win games. Wenger has non of these abilities anymore & we are talking about Alardyce FFS.

[selassie]

This is the usual rush toward top 4 we always seem to do isn't it, been awful this season but we're going on a mini run Wenger will then be able to tell everybody they were wrong (he has already hasn't he), sign his contract and pretend it's all good thus papering over the cracks.

You can already see it now, a few wins and the rebellion is disappearing and Wenger is becoming very smug again, citing, togetherness, hunger etc, after years of the same thing it gets very boring, sadly it looks like it's going to continue and Wenger will be sitting there with his bumper new contract at the end of the season, patting himself on the back on another good season and another season where he has proved everyone wrong and his players have proved they are good enough to win everything.

Seen this too many times now, an end of season mini unbeaten run after a disastrous collapse, seems to be happening again.

I think our run will end on Sunday, also if you look at our remaining fixtures then I'd be surprised if we don't lose at least once...if not twice.

Top 4 is gone, we have to win all of our games to finish in top 4 and hope that one of the teams above....well Liverpool...drops points.

We haven't looked at all convincing in the past 3 games...we are scrambling out victories albeit with a lot of luck. Wenger has nothing to gain from this season and nothing to gain from telling anybody he is right because he isn't, he is wrong and he is being left behind, that is clear for all to see.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think our run will end on Sunday, also if you look at our remaining fixtures then I'd be surprised if we don't lose at least once...if not twice.

Top 4 is gone, we have to win all of our games to finish in top 4 and hope that one of the teams above....well Liverpool...drops points.

We haven't looked at all convincing in the past 3 games...we are scrambling out victories albeit with a lot of luck. Wenger has nothing to gain from this season and nothing to gain from telling anybody he is right because he isn't, he is wrong and he is being left behind, that is clear for all to see.

The only thing i would add is that if you were a 67 year old who earned good money had a job where you were in control of everything and were pathologically scared of retiring....even if you know in your own mind you haven't got it any more what's to gain from walking away?

Adoration of the fans is nice, but if we think for a second that losing that respect would cause him to lose any sleep (or whether it would for us if we were Wenger) we need to think again.

My Dad is Wenger's age (six months younger only just turned 67), and does not want to retire. The difference is he wouldn't be kept on if he was no longer able to perform that job to the highest level.

We can blame Wenger all we want for the results and performances, he's in charge of every aspect of football so it is his responsibility. We can blame him all we want for being selfish and not just going.....but i'm honestly not sure in his position that i would walk.

I'm not saying for a second anyone should be sympathetic with Wenger, all i'm saying is that what he's doing is whilst frustrating and annoying not really inexplicable

What is inexplicable are his employers.

[Power n Glory]

It’s easy to understand why the Board would show loyalty to Wenger and not fire him. It’s not inexplicable and especially not when you’ve come to the above conclusion about Wenger. Also, I think there is a wide assumption that an offer is still on the table. I don’t know how true that is now because a lot has changed and we’ve had three official statements from senior members and none have shown outright support for the manager. Wenger’s blasé, ‘I’ll make a decision’ comments may just be another example of him underestimating a situation and being delusional.

Also, if we’re going with the assumption that the Board still want Wenger to stay despite the piss poor season, potentially dropping out of the top four and despite the financial consequences, why would they still support him? Besides assuming incompetence, I can only assume they’re showing some sort of loyalty to a long serving manager. Who can’t understand that here? Wenger’s long lost the ‘cash cow’ tag if he drops out of the top four, blows record transfer fees and wages all whist fans are raging and staying away from games.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It’s easy to understand why the Board would show loyalty to Wenger and not fire him. It’s not inexplicable and especially not when you’ve come to the above conclusion about Wenger. Also, I think there is a wide assumption that an offer is still on the table. I don’t know how true that is now because a lot has changed and we’ve had three official statements from senior members and none have shown outright support for the manager. Wenger’s blasé, ‘I’ll make a decision’ comments may just be another example of him underestimating a situation and being delusional.

Also, if we’re going with the assumption that the Board still want Wenger to stay despite the piss poor season, potentially dropping out of the top four and despite the financial consequences, why would they still support him? Besides assuming incompetence, I can only assume they’re showing some sort of loyalty to a long serving manager. Who can’t understand that here? Wenger’s long lost the ‘cash cow’ tag if he drops out of the top four, blows record transfer fees and wages all whist fans are raging and staying away from games.

Although i said the word employers plural, it should really be singular

It's quite possible the board are no longer happy with Wenger but that it will count for nothing anyway

At best though they have been asleep at the wheel, the club's current financial position has less to do with Wenger than it might have done a few years ago. He's kept us on an even footing for a long time for sure, but the tv money is the reason for our current share value and despite our chief executive being the only one who seems to offer any kind of resistance to Wenger's total control of things in a football sense he hasn't especially been great at that (although how much of it is his responsibility can only be speculated at) and he hasn't been great at marketing the club where we trail chelsea, man united, man city and liverpool by some way.

If we are saying that they are showing loyalty to a long serving manager that is in contradiction to our assumption that these are money people because it's hard to think as you say that people staying away from games and the loss of champions league revenue wouldn't have a depressing effect on share values, so it could be argued that such a decision would not be beneficial from a football or a financial standpoint.

For a long time the decision to keep faith with Wenger has made perfect sense in terms of stability and financial growth, now you have to wonder.....

[Power n Glory]

Although i said the word employers plural, it should really be singular

It's quite possible the board are no longer happy with Wenger but that it will count for nothing anyway

At best though they have been asleep at the wheel, the club's current financial position has less to do with Wenger than it might have done a few years ago. He's kept us on an even footing for a long time for sure, but the tv money is the reason for our current share value and despite our chief executive being the only one who seems to offer any kind of resistance to Wenger's total control of things in a football sense he hasn't especially been great at that (although how much of it is his responsibility can only be speculated at) and he hasn't been great at marketing the club where we trail chelsea, man united, man city and liverpool by some way.

If we are saying that they are showing loyalty to a long serving manager that is in contradiction to our assumption that these are money people because it's hard to think as you say that people staying away from games and the loss of champions league revenue wouldn't have a depressing effect on share values, so it could be argued that such a decision would not be beneficial from a football or a financial standpoint.

For a long time the decision to keep faith with Wenger has made perfect sense in terms of stability and financial growth, now you have to wonder.....

I'm speculating but that's exactly my point. It's not beneficial to them financially or in a footballing sense. But then to compare that position to what you’ve written about Wenger’s position….who looks worse or more selfish?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm speculating but that's exactly my point. It's not beneficial to them financially or in a footballing sense. But then to compare that position to what you’ve written about Wenger’s position….who looks worse or more selfish?

My point is that i personally were I in Wenger's position would probably be just as selfish.....there is definitely no question that he's being selfish. But i can understand why he'd want to stay, but unless they are not looking at the bigger picture and just kicking things into the long grass it's hard to understand the board or the majority shareholder either from a football or financial perspective wanting this to carry on.

[Power n Glory]

My point is that i personally were I in Wenger's position would probably be just as selfish.....there is definitely no question that he's being selfish. But i can understand why he'd want to stay, but unless they are not looking at the bigger picture and just kicking things into the long grass it's hard to understand the board or the majority shareholder either from a football or financial perspective wanting this to carry on.

I get that, but if looking from the other side of the coin and taking a more personal perspective, as done with Wenger, I can understand why they’d not want to see him leave under these circumstances. I think most people around football can. With Wenger, I can understand staying for the money but he’s spent years building his reputation as a man with principles and a purist. A man that loves football and not money. From that perspective, I would have thought he’d have moved on to a club like Madrid, Barca or even PSG and try to win the CL. Lesser managers have won that trophy as discussed with Barca and Madrid. Why take the flack here where not wanted and try to spend your last couple of years going for the ultimate prize?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I get that, but if looking from the other side of the coin and taking a more personal perspective, as done with Wenger, I can understand why they’d not want to see him leave under these circumstances. I think most people around football can. With Wenger, I can understand staying for the money but he’s spent years building his reputation as a man with principles and a purist. A man that loves football and not money. From that perspective, I would have thought he’d have moved on to a club like Madrid, Barca or even PSG and try to win the CL. Lesser managers have won that trophy as discussed with Barca and Madrid. Why take the flack here where not wanted and try to spend your last couple of years going for the ultimate prize?

Because he's not stupid, he knows he wouldn't be given the time or the carte blanche to control things that he has at Arsenal

He's not deluded but he's arrogant enough to believe he can win over the fans as well

[Power n Glory]

Destroying a legacy and reputation it’s taken decades to build is pretty stupid and especially if it’s just to accumulate a bigger pile of cash. He’s 67 years old.

[Letters]

Destroying a legacy and reputation it’s taken decades to build is pretty stupid and especially if it’s just to accumulate a bigger pile of cash. He’s 67 years old.

I don't understand what Wenger's getting out of this any more.
Money, obviously, but he's already a multi-millionaire. He doesn't want for anything. I don't think he's too fussed about the money actually, I think he'd do it for free - he's addicted to the whole buzz of it.
But as things turn more sour with the fans and results increasingly get worse it clearly takes a toll on him Surely someone close to him should be saying "Come on, fella, you've had a good run - time to call it a day".
I think if he went at the end of the season, win the FA Cup or not, in time when people have calmed down they would appreciate his legacy. The longer this drags on the more damage it does to that. Shame.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Destroying a legacy and reputation it’s taken decades to build is pretty stupid and especially if it’s just to accumulate a bigger pile of cash. He’s 67 years old.

I'm not so sure it's about money, it's about the fear of having nothing else left.

He is according to so many people the first one at London Colney and the last one to leave, managing Arsenal FC is the totality of his existence there is nothing else.

Looking at it from an outside perspective it's easier to look at it rationally and objectively and say "i don't get what he gets out of this". The answer is because this is all he has, now do I think that's anyone else's fault but his own? No of course not. But putting myself in his shoes I would think i've given this club everything and I'm owed this.
Looking at it dispassionately no he's not owed anything, he was given three years with more money to make some improvement and there's been none.

So I'm clear on this, it's not that i'm saying Wenger deserves any less stick than the board. It's just saying from Wenger's point of view there is more rationale for wanting to stay than there is for the board wanting him to stay.

[Letters]

It's a bit like how some footballers dread retiring because they're late 30s and it's all they've known since they were in their teens, so what is left? What can replace the buzz of the big game?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's a bit like how some footballers dread retiring because they're late 30s and it's all they've known since they were in their teens, so what is left? What can replace the buzz of the big game?

It's totally centred around fear of change

[Power n Glory]

I don't understand what Wenger's getting out of this any more.
Money, obviously, but he's already a multi-millionaire. He doesn't want for anything. I don't think he's too fussed about the money actually, I think he'd do it for free - he's addicted to the whole buzz of it.
But as things turn more sour with the fans and results increasingly get worse it clearly takes a toll on him Surely someone close to him should be saying "Come on, fella, you've had a good run - time to call it a day".
I think if he went at the end of the season, win the FA Cup or not, in time when people have calmed down they would appreciate his legacy. The longer this drags on the more damage it does to that. Shame.

It really does sour his reputation. He doesn’t have to retire. He could easily get the football buzz that he craves somewhere else and maybe successfully mask his short comings as a manger. A few years at a Madrid or Barca and he must be able to get away pull in some sort of silverware. Or go to France, Italy or Germany and takeover one of the biggest clubs that has the most money and best players. Pull a Pep with Bayern! Or if the pressure of winning trophies is too much, take on an underdog team and bask in the glories failure heaven. Another project club that needs reshaping…he has options. But the longer he stays at Arsenal and fails he only exposes himself and opens himself up to more criticism.

[Letters]

I think he genuinely loves Arsenal and wants to deliver one last big trophy, every season he becomes more like a desperate gambler staying for one more hand trying to recoup his losses.
It would be nice if we win the FA Cup and he then leaves. Maybe not quite the high he hoped but winning it 3 years out of 4 would be an achievement, he'd be the outright record holder as a manager and I think we would be as a club.

I don't think any of that will happen though.

[Power n Glory]

That would be the ideal scenario. Anything can happen in the final but I doubt he'd leave even if he won.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The question is would the likes of Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG even look at Wenger i'd have my doubts and i think he knows that, plus he knows he'd be only a head coach in a set up that he wouldn't get to choose. I think he has total control over Arsenal and has had it for so long he's scared to give it up.

[Letters]

I think he'd get a job at a big club but maybe not at that sort of level and agree he wouldn't have the autonomy he has at Arsenal.

[Power n Glory]

I still think the Wenger name still holds it value around the top clubs. But it doesn’t matter either way. If he wants complete control, there are other clubs he can go to in order to get that along with a lengthy contract and good salary. He doesn’t have to tarnish his reputation here with the fans in the process. If he’s not hungry for trophies and wants another project, find a Southampton type club elsewhere and he could focus on developing players and the structure of the club. That has to be better than out staying your welcome at Arsenal. Someone has to set him straight.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I still think the Wenger name still holds it value around the top clubs. But it doesn’t matter either way. If he wants complete control, there are other clubs he can go to in order to get that along with a lengthy contract and good salary. He doesn’t have to tarnish his reputation here with the fans in the process. If he’s not hungry for trophies and wants another project, find a Southampton type club elsewhere and he could focus on developing players and the structure of the club. That has to be better than out staying your welcome at Arsenal. Someone has to set him straight.

I don't think there is any club that is in the top flight of European football that would allow him to operate with the same autonomy that the club has allowed him. Southampton has a very structured system for instance, and the modern football set up largely makes the manager but a cog in the machine, yes the manager still decides who plays and who doesn't and to what formation and to what tactics but they don't control everything from a football aspect top to bottom.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think there is any club that is in the top flight of European football that would allow him to operate with the same autonomy that the club has allowed him. Southampton has a very structured system for instance, and the modern football set up largely makes the manager but a cog in the machine, yes the manager still decides who plays and who doesn't and to what formation and to what tactics but they don't control everything from a football aspect top to bottom.

Again, it doesn't have to be the top flight and I mean Southampton before the structure. Wenger can help a struggling club to get to that point.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Again, it doesn't have to be the top flight and I mean Southampton before the structure. Wenger can help a struggling club to get to that point.

No but do you really think a man of 67 would take on a job that's a long project, rather than one where he's totally in a comfort zone. Letters himself spoke about the lack of spark or challenge, but at that age you don't want to be too challenged.
My Dad as I previously mentioned is Wengers age, my brother and I constantly talk to him about taking up a consultancy role where he can pick his own hours but I don't think he wants the hassle of having that in place but equally he's scared of retiring like Wenger is.
Now I don't think my Dad is being selfish, as I don't believe he would do anything that would put strain on him and his health (he's only just gone back to work after a three month recovery period after an op to remove cancer) and I think Wenger is being selfish as I think his decision is preventing the club from moving on.
And you may be right the board might not want to sack him out of a sense of loyalty and that might be the only explanation for their behaviour, but the point I'm making is you're right he's tarnishing his reputation and his legacy but ultimately I think his first and foremost issue is not being able to tear himself away from a job that takes up all his waking hours.
And I don't think he'd want to have to start again elsewhere in order to maintain that, I can understand that even if I know in this life we don't always have the luxury of getting what we want.

[Power n Glory]

If Wenger is talking about staying on and feeling the same hunger to win, then yes, why not? There are plenty of managers around the same age as Wenger that have taken on new roles and still coaching. Allardyce, Redknapp is still around, no idea what Ranieri will do but he may continue on, Hodgson still wants to coach after the England debacle. I'm not going to presume too much about Wenger's psyche. I can only go on what he has said and he still talks as if he wants a challenge and before our first FA Cup win, even suggested he may have left if we lost the final. I don't think it's a case of coasting. He's just incapable and tarnishing his rep in the process.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If Wenger is talking about staying on and feeling the same hunger to win, then yes, why not? There are plenty of managers around the same age as Wenger that have taken on new roles and still coaching. Allardyce, Redknapp is still around, no idea what Ranieri will do but he may continue on, Hodgson still wants to coach after the England debacle. I'm not going to presume too much about Wenger's psyche. I can only go on what he has said and he still talks as if he wants a challenge and before our first FA Cup win, even suggested he may have left if we lost the final. I don't think it's a case of coasting. He's just incapable and tarnishing his rep in the process.

I don't think he's likely to ever say he's not full of vigour and up for the challenge. I'm taking him at his own word when he said he's scared of retirement. And at a club he's shown loyalty to for over twenty years he feels he is owed it in return.

Does he believe he can turn it around and take us forward yes because he's arrogant like that but he knows his personal currency has been devalued for some time.

[Marc Overmars]

None of those guys have had the same autonomy as Wenger. The position Wenger holds is unprecedented in modern football. He needs to call it day but it's easy to see why he wants to stay, even if it is very selfish.

[Power n Glory]

None of those guys have had the same autonomy as Wenger. The position Wenger holds is unprecedented in modern football. He needs to call it day but it's easy to see why he wants to stay, even if it is very selfish.

I'm not making that comparison. Wenger is in a league of his own in that respect. But as one of the eldest and most respected managers in football, he has options outside of Arsenal and I'm sure if the Board toughen up and give him the boot, he'll find a position that suits him. He's confident enough to flirt with the big clubs and make subtle threats when things get on top here at Arsenal. For example, he's always spoken highly of Madrid and I think he has a relationship with their President, who is also a Wenger fan boy.... trying to compare Wenger to the everyday guy on the verge of retirement is senseless. Wenger has way more options on his hands if he decides to leave Arsenal. If Zidane and Enrique can win Champs League medals, I wouldn't put it past Wenger being able to win one in Spain.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think he's likely to ever say he's not full of vigour and up for the challenge. I'm taking him at his own word when he said he's scared of retirement. And at a club he's shown loyalty to for over twenty years he feels he is owed it in return.

Does he believe he can turn it around and take us forward yes because he's arrogant like that but he knows his personal currency has been devalued for some time.

The fact that he says he's scared of retirement and has said he'll continue to manage suggests he's still up for the challenge.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The fact that he says he's scared of retirement and has said he'll continue to manage suggests he's still up for the challenge.

It also means you can be scared of change

Will he try and find another club if his contract was not renewed? Yes but given the choice he will stay with us because that's where it's stable and secure for him.

It's not that he doesn't want to win things with us or doesn't believe he can, he just knows there is not the same pressure