Clichy has left. And Nasri in talks with Citeh.

[Letters]

First of all, you keep posting links that people are unable to view.

I only posted one link. You should be able to see it now. I'd made it so guests couldn't see the Arsenal Debate section of the old board by accident :doh:


Secondly, I've passed no comment on the value of the transfer, I've just pointed out that some felt he was crap and £7m is good business and others think otherwise an feel we have strengthened a rival on the cheap.

Fair enough. I'm not sure it's great business but I'm not bothered about Clichy going. He's very prone to stupid mistakes (often in otherwise good performances, strangely). I don't think him being there strengthens them.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I can go on the old board as a guest and can see it fine but when i click on the links Letters is posting, it says i cant view them

It isn't just you.

[Letters]

I can go on the old board as a guest and can see it fine but when i click on the links Letters is posting, it says i cant view them

Try again? I made an error with the permissons on the old site which should be fixed now.

[Coney]

It isn't just you.

Well, he is banned on old GW. ;)

[Cripps_orig]

Try again? I made an error with the permissons on the old site which should be fixed now.

Fine now :good:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I only posted one link. You should be able to see it now. I'd made it so guests couldn't see the Arsenal Debate section of the old board by accident :doh:



Fair enough. I'm not sure it's great business but I'm not bothered about Clichy going. He's very prone to stupid mistakes (often in otherwise good performances, strangely). I don't think him being there strengthens them.

I think Clichy has the raw talent - we all saw that, but he never progressed as he should because of how he was (or wasn't_) coached. I think he could be a much better player for City than he was for us. Time will tell.

For the record, I reckon Theo would have been a much better player today had he been with someone like Chelsea.

[Boss]

has this thought occured to anyone? perhaps wenger told clichy he wasnt wanted because of his poor season and has plans to replace him already?

or is it just bash wenger because clichy left and we dont know why he left?

Wenger one week ago:


“We have started talks with Gael and want him to stay,” said Wenger.

[Cripps_orig]

Well, he is banned on old GW. ;)

I thought that would be the problem but then i remembered i was logged out.

How else could i go on GW whilst i was banned to do some :ninja:?

[Letters]

I think Clichy has the raw talent - we all saw that, but he never progressed as he should because of how he was (or wasn't_) coached. I think he could be a much better player for City than he was for us. Time will tell.

For the record, I reckon Theo would have been a much better player today had he been with someone like Chelsea.

So you think we just got lucky with players like Vieira and Cesc who became world class under Wenger and his coaching staff?
IMO injuries have held Theo back more than any problem at Arsenal.
As for Clichy, he's frustrating because he's basically a decent player IMO but he is prone to baffling lapses which cost us goals.

[Özim]

has this thought occured to anyone? perhaps wenger told clichy he wasnt wanted because of his poor season and has plans to replace him already?

or is it just bash wenger because clichy left and we dont know why he left?
Sure, the guy who holds on to cr*p like Denilson and Almunia for years tells a first teamer he's not wanted.

[Xhaka Can’t]

So you think we just got lucky with players like Vieira and Cesc who became world class under Wenger and his coaching staff?
IMO injuries have held Theo back more than any problem at Arsenal.
As for Clichy, he's frustrating because he's basically a decent player IMO but he is prone to baffling lapses which cost us goals.

I never mentioned Vieira and/or Fabregas. I'm speaking about two individuals in the Club who I do not believe to have been well coached. Yes, with Theo, injuries have played their part, but he has been shown to be far more effective when played where he is more comfortable - but these occasions have been far too few because of how Wenger has played him. and I don't think anyone can make an argument that states that the defense have been well coached and/or drilled.

[Marc Overmars]

Right. Does anyone think he's worth more than that? People spent much of last season slagging him off and now suddenly £7m is 'peanuts' for him? Fair enough!

He was in the last year of his contract which immediately drives the price down, so I'm not overly bothered about that price really, we didn't have many chips left to play with. It is disappointing though given how inflated the market is we have lost a player for half of his actual worth IMO. As Syn has rightly pointed out though, would that money all be reinvested or will it just make the annual reports look even nicer?

Meh.

If we do buy Enrique I bet we will have to pay a lot more than 7m for an inferior player.

[Letters]

I never mentioned Vieira and/or Fabregas. I'm speaking about two individuals in the Club who I do not believe to have been well coached. Yes, with Theo, injuries have played their part, but he has been shown to be far more effective when played where he is more comfortable - but these occasions have been far too few because of how Wenger has played him. and I don't think anyone can make an argument that states that the defense have been well coached and/or drilled.

Well I certainly agree with the last sentence. Just making the general point that for all Wenger's errors I don't think poor coaching, in general, has been one of them. He's coached a squad of mostly young players into a top 4 side and one which with better defensive coaching and a bit of steel could and should have done more.

[Boss]

20.38 Gael Clichy has spoken of his ambitions at new club Manchester City."There is no limit at Manchester City," he said of his new club's ability to lift silverware. "Of course, you have to be realistic but there is no limit. Where they have come from in three years is phenomenal. And I want to win things."

Project youth :rose:

[Cripps_orig]

And I want to win things

Wenger :rose:

[Letters]

Project youth :rose:

You seriously think a club with limitless resources should be commended for spending their way to success? A billionaire could take over any club and can do that, it's been shown twice in the PL already. Chelsea were in the top 4 before they were board, City were in mid-table, just shows you can do it with anyone if you pump enough money in.

Wenger's made mistakes but his basic approch has been right. The frustrating thing is he has built a squad capable of success, a combination of poor defensive coaching, mental fragility and stubbonness from Wenger when he needed to spend some money has led to our failure.

[fakeyank]

If Clichy plays for City as he did for us then im delighted hes gone there.

However we all know he'll do well there cos he'll actually be trained defensively.

Thats very likely but I do not think any amount of training can take away the lapses of concentration that Clichy suffers from. I am glad we got rid of him, just hope TV5 is fit enough to play there for a long time... even if not TV5, I'd rather have Eboue over Gibbs.

Good luck to him though.. he spent 8 years with us and he always gave us 100% for the team and that is something you cant say about 90% of the team. I do think that he will be benched with Kolarov first choice

[cricketsi]

If Nasri were to go as well for the reported £20m, we'd have sold two players for £27m - significantly less than the £40m odd we got before from Man Shitty for 2 inferior players, Toure and Adebayor. Sucks.

[Letters]

Good luck to him though.. he spent 8 years with us and he always gave us 100% for the team and that is something you cant say about 90% of the team.

Agreed. The lapses were baffling and maddening, maybe City can train that out of him which would be a further inditement (sp?) on our defensive coaching but he always gave us 100%.

[fakeyank]

Sure, the guy who holds on to cr*p like Denilson and Almunia for years tells a first teamer he's not wanted.

I am sure AW has told them to fuck off but nobody wants them.. Denilson, not even on ebay! :lol:

[Cripps_orig]

Thats very likely but I do not think any amount of training can take away the lapses of concentration that Clichy suffers from. I am glad we got rid of him, just hope TV5 is fit enough to play there for a long time... even if not TV5, I'd rather have Eboue over Gibbs.

Good luck to him though.. he spent 8 years with us and he always gave us 100% for the team and that is something you cant say about 90% of the team. I do think that he will be benched with Kolarov first choice

Kolarov is shit bar a decent free kick he takes once every blue moon.

Clichy will be first choice. I dont want anyone we currently have at our club to play LB. We have to buy someone. Baines or Enrique would do me fine.

[Özim]

You seriously think a club with limitless resources should be commended for spending their way to success? A billionaire could take over any club and can do that, it's been shown twice in the PL already. Chelsea were in the top 4 before they were board, City were in mid-table, just shows you can do it with anyone if you pump enough money in.

Wenger's made mistakes but his basic approch has been right. The frustrating thing is he has built a squad capable of success, a combination of poor defensive coaching, mental fragility and stubbonness from Wenger when he needed to spend some money has led to our failure.
Maybe not but neither is a club who rip off the fans with sky high ticket prices, spend next to nothing on transfers and then belittle them with patronising comments, all whilst employing a manager who defends being 4th place losers every season, watches his team his team collapse like rice paper under a tonne of bricks every season and then preaches about spirit and togetherness when half his squad want to leave .....and all this whilst he's picking up 6 million a year.

There's nothing to be proud of there. Yeah guess the sugar daddy option isn't as bad as it looks after all.

[Boss]

You seriously think a club with limitless resources should be commended for spending their way to success? A billionaire could take over any club and can do that, it's been shown twice in the PL already. Chelsea were in the top 4 before they were board, City were in mid-table, just shows you can do it with anyone if you pump enough money in.

Wenger's made mistakes but his basic approch has been right. The frustrating thing is he has built a squad capable of success, a combination of poor defensive coaching, mental fragility and stubbonness from Wenger when he needed to spend some money has led to our failure.

:unsure:

My point was that the player in our squad who should be most loyal to Wenger (bought as an unknown, been here 7+ years) has no more faith in his project.

Think that speaks for itself.

[Cripps_orig]

Maybe not but neither is a club who rip off the fans with sky high ticket prices, spend next to nothing on transfers and then belittle them with patronising comments, all whilst paying a manager who defends being 4th place losers every season, preaches about spirit and togetherness when half his squad want to leave and every season they collapse like rice paper under a tonne of bricks.....and all this whilst he's picking up 6 million a year.

There's nothing to be proud of there.

Both ways are shite ass ways to get successful tbh but id rather Citys way than ours

[Letters]

:unsure:

My point was that the player in our squad who should be most loyal to Wenger (bought as an unknown, been here 7+ years) has no more faith in his project.

Think that speaks for itself.

Hmm. Fair enough.

[Letters]

Both ways are shite ass ways to get successful tbh but id rather Citys way than ours

Seriously? So you wouldn't care that every trophy would be tainted by the fact that you only achieved it by spending a sugar-daddy's money and know that if he got bored and pissed off we'd be screwed.

Sod that, frankly. I want success but not like that. It's as meaningless as buying a degree off the internet and then celebrating your 'achievement'.

[Özim]

Both ways are shite ass ways to get successful tbh but id rather Citys way than ours
Yup agreed, both shite but with one at least you experience success and don't get the p*ss taken out of you.

[Özim]

Seriously? So you wouldn't care that every trophy would be tainted by the fact that you only achieved it by spending a sugar-daddy's money and know that if he got bored and pissed off we'd be screwed.

Sod that, frankly. I want success but not like that. It's as meaningless as buying a degree off the internet and then celebrating your 'achievement'.
Maybe so, but what we're doing is meaningless, the history books will at least remember the other team.

There's actually nothing pleasurable about what Wenger is doing, quite the opposite.

[Niall_Quinn]

You seriously think a club with limitless resources should be commended for spending their way to success? A billionaire could take over any club and can do that, it's been shown twice in the PL already. Chelsea were in the top 4 before they were board, City were in mid-table, just shows you can do it with anyone if you pump enough money in.

Wenger's made mistakes but his basic approch has been right. The frustrating thing is he has built a squad capable of success, a combination of poor defensive coaching, mental fragility and stubbonness from Wenger when he needed to spend some money has led to our failure.

I think Man Utd should be commended for managing to compete and win despite the financial strength of the opposition, and I think the Arsenal board and Wenger should be condemned for being so comprehensively whipped by a Utd board in constant turmoil, a manager who would have an excuse to lose the hunger after all these years but hasn't and a team that is technically inferior to ours.

We have bad leadership and trying to blame Man City for that is a non-starter really.

[cricketsi]

Yup agreed, both shite but with one at least you experience success and don't get the p*ss taken out of you.

I'll gladly take the piss out of anyone who genuinely feels that way.

[Cripps_orig]

Seriously? So you wouldn't care that every trophy would be tainted by the fact that you only achieved it by spending a sugar-daddy's money and know that if he got bored and pissed off we'd be screwed.

Sod that, frankly. I want success but not like that. It's as meaningless as buying a degree off the internet and then celebrating your 'achievement'.

Out of the 2 id go for Citys but ideally id want something in between.

Spend money on quality players whilst producing youngsters.

[Özim]

I'll gladly take the piss out of anyone who genuinely feels that way.
Yeah but they wouldn't be paying you for the privilege.

[Letters]

I think Man Utd should be commended for managing to compete and win despite the financial strength of the opposition, and I think the Arsenal board and Wenger should be condemned for being so comprehensively whipped by a Utd board in constant turmoil, a manager who would have an excuse to lose the hunger after all these years but hasn't and a team that is technically inferior to ours.

We have bad leadership and trying to blame Man City for that is a non-starter really.

I don't really disagree with that and I'm not blaming City for anything.
Just saying their success will be tainted by the way it was achieved. Their idiot fans probably won't care, our stupider fans wouldn't care if it happened to us. But the more discerning would surely see the difference.

[Letters]

Out of the 2 id go for Citys but ideally id want something in between.

Spend money on quality players whilst producing youngsters.

Agreed. And the frustrating thing is I think we could have achieved success the 'right' way had Wenger been less stubborn and mixed the (undoubtably good) squad he's built with a bit of experience which could have got us over the finish line.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Sure, the guy who holds on to cr*p like Denilson and Almunia for years tells a first teamer he's not wanted.

Depends how much more money that 1st teamer wanted tbh.

[Özim]

Depends how much more money that 1st teamer wanted tbh.
Don't think money was the issue here, lack of belief in the idealistic policy and lack of success were probably more relevant.

Wenger thinks he can keep the better players by getting 4th place every season.

[Niall_Quinn]

Of course it's an utter disgrace we have sold our starting FB to the club that finished directly above us. Clichy, for all his mistakes, is a better defender than Gibbs. Sending Clichy off to the continent and getting in a superior replacement would have been fine, but we've sold to our direct rivals and you just pray Wenger won't try to pull a stunt and go with Gibbs as first choice. If it works out that way then add yet another reason to the long list of reasons why Wenger should be sacked.

What's more, now there's a gap in the team Wenger had better move fucking fast to fill it (as in tomorrow considering he must have known Clichy was going) or else the zero-ambition message to the other players increases in volume.

Do we have any players left now that have ever won anything at Arsenal? Anyone at all?

[cricketsi]

Yeah but they wouldn't be paying you for the privilege.

True, Ach only offered me money to piss on him.

[Power n Glory]

He was in the last year of his contract which immediately drives the price down, so I'm not overly bothered about that price really, we didn't have many chips left to play with. It is disappointing though given how inflated the market is we have lost a player for half of his actual worth IMO. As Syn has rightly pointed out though, would that money all be reinvested or will it just make the annual reports look even nicer?

Meh.

If we do buy Enrique I bet we will have to pay a lot more than 7m for an inferior player.

That's my point. It's an inflated market and not even Bolton will sell us Cahill for his true market value. But it sucks to sell him to City without making it worth our while. It's not as if we have a left back ready to step in and we will need to pay more than £7m for an experienced replacement. Clichy had some shockers and we need a better left back, but I don't see us spending money on this position and we've just sent out the wrong message. Selling him is one thing, but to the team that pipped us for 3rd!

[Master Splinter]

Gael Clichy has spoken of his ambitions at new club Manchester City."There is no limit at Manchester City," he said of his new club's ability to lift silverware. "Of course, you have to be realistic but there is no limit. Where they have come from in three years is phenomenal. And I want to win things."

Footballers really are stupid.

And people advocating City's method of obtaining success have given themselves up as glory hunters. If all you're bothered about is how Arsenal's glory/non-glory refelects upon you, then why even bother following a team? Instant, manufactured success is not sport. And if that's what you want, then the next Football Manager or FIFA games would be recommended.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't really disagree with that and I'm not blaming City for anything.
Just saying their success will be tainted by the way it was achieved. Their idiot fans probably won't care, our stupider fans wouldn't care if it happened to us. But the more discerning would surely see the difference.

If I didn't have this enduring image of a bunch of despicable shits quaffing champagne in our boardroom and celebrating the rise in their fortunes as ours and the team's plunge down the shitter then I might agree. But I'd rather we get laughed at by all for buying success than see those fuckers in the boardroom make a penny more. Frankly I'm not really thinking about football any more, I just want the board to die, tbh.

[cricketsi]

Do we have any players left now that have ever won anything at Arsenal? Anyone at all?

I know it was probably rhetorical, but Cesc and RvP both played in 2005 FA Cup final (Clichy didn't, btw, and Almunia was on the bench)

[Kano]

You seriously think a club with limitless resources should be commended for spending their way to success?

clichy doesn't think so


'I really believe if you are a player who thinks only about money then you could end up at Manchester City,' The French full-back told The Sun.

[Niall_Quinn]

Footballers really are stupid.

And people advocating City's method of obtaining success have given themselves up as glory hunters. If all you're bothered about is how Arsenal's glory/non-glory refelects upon you, then why even bother following a team? Instant, manufactured success is not sport. And if that's what you want, then the next Football Manager or FIFA games would be recommended.

I bet it would be hard to find any established poster on here that has advocated massive expenditure in an attempt to buy the league. You'll find a lot of posters who are sick to death of Wenger's penny pinching though, his refusal to spend just a fraction of what our rivals spend to shore up the team and give us that little bit extra we've lacked for so many years. On occasions the margin has been as slim as £2mill and Wenger wouldn't spend it.

It's a bit of a tiresome argument coming out of Arsenal and from some of the Wenger faithful. Those who complain about lacking the ambition to do more than secure a CL spot are accused of pretending the club has been relegated. Those that want to spend a few quid buying a desperately needed GK or CB are accused of wanting to be Man City. Silly really and shows how weak the Wenger argument is and how shallow the apologies some offer up for his failure.

[Niall_Quinn]

I know it was probably rhetorical, but Cesc and RvP both played in 2005 FA Cup final (Clichy didn't, btw, and Almunia was on the bench)

So just RvP then?

[Power n Glory]

Footballers really are stupid.

And people advocating City's method of obtaining success have given themselves up as glory hunters. If all you're bothered about is how Arsenal's glory/non-glory refelects upon you, then why even bother following a team? Instant, manufactured success is not sport. And if that's what you want, then the next Football Manager or FIFA games would be recommended.

You still have to play to win something. Real Madrid spent millions on their current team and they haven't won the league or champs league yet. Years back they spent silly money on that Galatico team and they couldn't win anything with them until the team was broken up. It's not as simple as buying success.

[Letters]

It's a bit of a tiresome argument coming out of Arsenal and from some of the Wenger faithful. Those who complain about lacking the ambition to do more than secure a CL spot are accused of pretending the club has been relegated. Those that want to spend a few quid buying a desperately needed GK or CB are accused of wanting to be Man City.

None of that is true.
EVERYONE thinks Wenger should have spent more and his stubborn refusal to do so has stopped us winning trophies.
But some of the moaning on here. I've seen people say "it can't get worse". Do me a favour.
I've seen people write about Wenger as if he's a bumbling idiot. Clearly not true. His stubborness is maddening but you don't keep a team in the top 4 without having some nous.

[Xhaka Can’t]

What's more, now there's a gap in the team Wenger had better move fucking fast to fill it (as in tomorrow considering he must have known Clichy was going) or else the zero-ambition message to the other players increases in volume.


It would be utter madness to act like this during the waiting period.

[Letters]

You still have to play to win something. Real Madrid spent millions on their current team and they haven't won the league or champs league yet. Years back they spent silly money on that Galatico team and they couldn't win anything with them until the team was broken up. It's not as simple as buying success.

Would Chelsea have done what they've done without all the money?
Would City be in the top 4 without it?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Don't think money was the issue here, lack of belief in the idealistic policy and lack of success were probably more relevant.

Wenger thinks he can keep the better players by getting 4th place every season.

Well it does, i mean we can offers for alot of top players truth be told but we will always be stuck on the wages we can give them. Hence why we will miss out.

we can't afford to offer clichy what city are given him can we.

Until we pay off the stadium we are never getting world class stars end off. We have to accpet were not a big club anymore and the best we can hope for is 4th sadly

[Niall_Quinn]

It would be utter madness to act like this during the waiting period.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but I don't think the waiting period is real, I think Wenger made it up and nobody else has ever heard of it or pays a blind bit of attention to it.

[Marc Overmars]

The waiting period. :bow:

Epic.

[Özim]

The waiting period. :bow:

Epic.
The "waiting period" is the new "lack a little bit of sharpness" and "spirit and togetherness" :trophy:

[Niall_Quinn]

If I see any reports about us being 2% away from the end of the waiting period I'm going to swallow my own leg.

[Darth Vela]

Great, now he's gone we can move to bring in another LB, preferably Baines but Enrique has good PL experience and is a decent player, rather them than Iziguerre or whatever from Celtic as Scotland is shit.

Sentimentally, it's a shame to see him go as he has always put the effort in and is a handy player for the way we play, not so sure he'll be as useful to City as they sit a little deeper (then again it means he'll be exposed less so :shrug:) but he's definitely a step-up from what they already have. Footballistically, he's been making a fair few fuck-ups, playing people onside and the little brainfarts we all know and love so probably a good time for him to move on, good time for us to sell and a good time for City to get him, everyone's got a decent deal.

[Özim]

Well it does, i mean we can offers for alot of top players truth be told but we will always be stuck on the wages we can give them. Hence why we will miss out.

we can't afford to offer clichy what city are given him can we.

Until we pay off the stadium we are never getting world class stars end off. We have to accpet were not a big club anymore and the best we can hope for is 4th sadly
Clichy wants to win stuff, it clearly isn't just about money.

After 6 years of the same sh*t can you blame him or any other player for wanting to leave. Noone believes in Wenger's sh*t except Wenger, the board are only in it because of the money it brings in.

[Joker]

To be honest, I don't think Clichy is worth anymore than £7M, so although it would have been nice to receive more, I'm not surprised we didn't.
What's important is that we reinvest the transfer funds and sign a top quality replacement, however that's unlikely as Wenger's dogmatic commitment to his "youth project" demands that he sticks Gibbs into the first team, even if that has a detrimental effect on the team. This is the reason I call Wenger a free market fundamentalist. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, he will stick to his dogmatic belief in Project Youth despite its manifest failure. Margaret Thatcher was similar in her belief in Monetarism. Despite causing massive unemployment and failing to reduce Inflation as the policy was supposed to, she stuck to it, because she was ideologically commited to the policy despite its destructiveness.

[budesonide]

None of that is true.
EVERYONE thinks Wenger should have spent more and his stubborn refusal to do so has stopped us winning trophies.
But some of the moaning on here. I've seen people say "it can't get worse". Do me a favour.
I've seen people write about Wenger as if he's a bumbling idiot. Clearly not true. His stubborness is maddening but you don't keep a team in the top 4 without having some nous.

I havn't seen any one write about Wenger on here like he is an idiot. Almost invariably most of the anti-wenger rants have been to the effect that he is a wan*ker -- not a bumbling idiot. And the reason for that is underlined in your post above.

And, if he is that stubborn, one won't be far from suggesting that he is suffering from a case of idiocy -- not a bumbling case, but idiocy nonetheless.

[Joker]

The "waiting period" is the new "lack a little bit of sharpness" and "spirit and togetherness" :trophy:

LOL the waiting period is such a load of nonsense. I'd prefer it if Wenger was honest with us, instead of treating us like idiots.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Clichy wants to win stuff, it clearly isn't just about money.

After 6 years of the same sh*t can you blame him or any other player for wanting to leave. Noone believes in Wenger's sh*t except Wenger, the board are only in it because of the money it brings in.

so you belive if we had an offer accpeted for Aguero we could afford his wages? Clichy may want to win things, who forced him to stay at arsenal for 8 years why did he not leave after 3 if he did no think he could win more things at arsenal.

Its the wages that stops us getting big players.

[Power n Glory]

Would Chelsea have done what they've done without all the money?
Would City be in the top 4 without it?

No, but Chelsea wouldn't be who they are now if it wasn't for Mourinho and City may not have won anything or qualified for the CL this season of they stuck with Mark Hughes.

During our invincible season, Chelsea spent a ton of money under Ranieri but won nothing. Did they win a cup? You can't just throw a team together and expect them to gel, football doesn't work like that and we see it all the time in club football and even on the International stage. This is why I'm worried about the amount of changes we're about to make to our first team.

We saw how two new CB's got on during the season and how exposed our left side was because Arshavin wasn't tracking back. If we ship out out a load of first team players we'll have this same cohesion problem all over the pitch.

[Niall_Quinn]

Great, now he's gone we can move to bring in another LB, preferably Baines but Enrique has good PL experience and is a decent player, rather them than Iziguerre or whatever from Celtic as Scotland is shit.

Sentimentally, it's a shame to see him go as he has always put the effort in and is a handy player for the way we play, not so sure he'll be as useful to City as they sit a little deeper (then again it means he'll be exposed less so :shrug:) but he's definitely a step-up from what they already have. Footballistically, he's been making a fair few fuck-ups, playing people onside and the little brainfarts we all know and love so probably a good time for him to move on, good time for us to sell and a good time for City to get him, everyone's got a decent deal.

Mostly true, except it was City so we should have got £15-£98mill for him. We must be the only club who settle for a sensible fee when dealing with a club with unlimited resources. Looks like Wenger's prudence extends even beyond the club. You can imagine him sitting there and beating their negotiators down, refusing to take a penny more that what Clichy is worth.

[Marc Overmars]

The "waiting period" is the new "lack a little bit of sharpness" and "spirit and togetherness" :trophy:

You know, I think it has the potential to surpass those. Could be Wenger's best one yet.

[Letters]

No, but Chelsea wouldn't be who they are now if it wasn't for Mourinho and City may not have won anything or qualified for the CL this season of they stuck with Mark Hughes.

During our invincible season, Chelsea spent a ton of money under Ranieri but won nothing. Did they win a cup? You can't just throw a team together and expect them to gel, football doesn't work like that and we see it all the time in club football and even on the International stage. This is why I'm worried about the amount of changes we're about to make to our first team.

We saw how two new CB's got on during the season and how exposed our left side was because Arshavin wasn't tracking back. If we ship out out a load of first team players we'll have this same cohesion problem all over the pitch.

Thing is though Chelsea wouldn't have got Mourinho but for the money either, they were nowhere near high profile enough before they started to spend big and even un Ranieri they pushed harder than they ever had previously. You can't just throw money around, you have to throw it in the right places, but Chelsea and now City's success all comes down ultimately to the sugar daddy. Frustrating as things are right now, it's not how I'd want us to do things

[Darth Vela]

To be honest, I don't think Clichy is worth anymore than £7M, so although it would have been nice to receive more, I'm not surprised we didn't.
What's important is that we reinvest the transfer funds and sign a top quality replacement, however that's unlikely as Wenger's dogmatic commitment to his "youth project" demands that he sticks Gibbs into the first team, even if that has a detrimental effect on the team. This is the reason I call Wenger a free market fundamentalist. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, he will stick to his dogmatic belief in Project Youth despite its manifest failure. Margaret Thatcher was similar in her belief in Monetarism. Despite causing massive unemployment and failing to reduce Inflation as the policy was supposed to, she stuck to it, because she was ideologically commited to the policy despite its destructiveness.

He will buy a replacement, the more specific 'project youth' to bring us to this point was a failure in that it didn't bring us a title-winning team so now that we have a bit of money we'll splash out to get the team back on track for next year, the wider 'project youth' in that we take talent and develop it instead of constantly buying at the top end of the market will continue though.

[Niall_Quinn]

He will buy a replacement, the more specific 'project youth' to bring us to this point was a failure in that it didn't bring us a title-winning team so now that we have a bit of money we'll splash out to get the team back on track for next year, the wider 'project youth' in that we take talent and develop it instead of constantly buying at the top end of the market will continue though.

Much to Barcelona's delight.

[Özim]

so you belive if we had an offer accpeted for Aguero we could afford his wages? Clichy may want to win things, who forced him to stay at arsenal for 8 years why did he not leave after 3 if he did no think he could win more things at arsenal.

Its the wages that stops us getting big players.
Aguero would never sign for us, bigger better more ambitious clubs would be interested.

We paid Campbell 100k+ back in the day, we still could if we wanted to. I'm not saying we should sign the world's very best, but we could sign some top players, can we still attract though with our reputation of being bottlers and our 1st teamers leaving?

[Özim]

LOL the waiting period is such a load of nonsense. I'd prefer it if Wenger was honest with us, instead of treating us like idiots.
The guy is so full of sh*t, that's one of the things that really loses him respect. To be honest he is becoming a bit of a joke in many ways due to his inflexibility, ridiculous comments, petulant behaviour and overly frugal spending policy.

[Joker]

And I don't think many people on this board would want us to achieve success the way City have. However, the majority of fans would have liked a bit more investment into the team, strengthening in areas that we have been weak in for some time, supplementing the squad with quality so that injuries don't have such a negative effect on team performance and they would in particular have liked the dismantling of the invincibles squad to take place at a much slower pace, so instead of the young players being thrown into the deep end suddenly, we would have had a transition period in which the young players were introduced in a "staggered entry" way, so that they could be guided by the experienced players who knew how to win trophies. If we had restructured our squad in this manner, there's a good chance we wouldn't have suffered such a pathetic stagnation over the last 6 years, and the young players who have not improved at all since 2006 may have actually learnt some best practice tips from players like Pires, Edu, Campbell, and could have become better players. Instead, Wenger's ideological belief in his Youth Project has ended in abject failure, with many of the players in whom he had such firm belief in realising it's a dead end and wanting out.

[Darth Vela]

Mostly true, except it was City so we should have got £15-£98mill for him. We must be the only club who settle for a sensible fee when dealing with a club with unlimited resources. Looks like Wenger's prudence extends even beyond the club. You can imagine him sitting there and beating their negotiators down, refusing to take a penny more that what Clichy is worth.

:lol: That's a nice image.

Not so sure the price matters to us, much as it doesn't to them. They could go out and spend 15m on Baines instead and not bat an eyelid, maybe we figure giving them Clichy is a good way to stop 'em from going for any other, good, LBs.

Actually, why didn't City just buy Baines? That's stupid.

[Darth Vela]

Much to Barcelona's delight.

:lol:

Indeed, they've got themselves a nice little feeder club.

[Joker]

He will buy a replacement, the more specific 'project youth' to bring us to this point was a failure in that it didn't bring us a title-winning team so now that we have a bit of money we'll splash out to get the team back on track for next year, the wider 'project youth' in that we take talent and develop it instead of constantly buying at the top end of the market will continue though.

I hope you're right, because it's absolutely imperative that Wenger makes the right decisions in the transfer window this summer, and if he doesn't get it right we're in deep shit, especially with teams around us strengthening their squads, ready for an assault on the title.

[Power n Glory]

Thing is though Chelsea wouldn't have got Mourinho but for the money either, they were nowhere near high profile enough before they started to spend big and even un Ranieri they pushed harder than they ever had previously. You can't just throw money around, you have to throw it in the right places, but Chelsea and now City's success all comes down ultimately to the sugar daddy. Frustrating as things are right now, it's not how I'd want us to do things I'd take the sugar daddy over a greedy board that won't even but their hands in their pocket to help the club out. We have two billionaires on the board and the club are raising seasons ticket prices and membership fees to pay for the electricity bill.

[budesonide]

:lol: That's a nice image.

Not so sure the price matters to us, much as it doesn't to them. They could go out and spend 15m on Baines instead and not bat an eyelid, maybe we figure giving them Clichy is a good way to stop 'em from going for any other, good, LBs.

Actually, why didn't City just buy Baines? That's stupid.

because in a decent team, clichy -- for only 7mil -- will be worldclass.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: That's a nice image.

Not so sure the price matters to us, much as it doesn't to them. They could go out and spend 15m on Baines instead and not bat an eyelid, maybe we figure giving them Clichy is a good way to stop 'em from going for any other, good, LBs.

Actually, why didn't City just buy Baines? That's stupid.

They probably will buy Baines.

[Darth Vela]

I hope you're right, because it's absolutely imperative that Wenger makes the right decisions in the transfer window this summer, and if he doesn't get it right we're in deep shit, especially with teams around us strengthening their squads, ready for an assault on the title.

Yeah, this is where I agree with the more pessimistic denizens of the Arsenal blogosphere, we don't invest this summer and we're a bit fucked.

[Niall_Quinn]

I hope you're right, because it's absolutely imperative that Wenger makes the right decisions in the transfer window this summer, and if he doesn't get it right we're in deep shit, especially with teams around us strengthening their squads, ready for an assault on the title.

We say the same twice a year and nothing ever comes of it. I think there's a certain degree of disbelief that shields Wenger, people simply can't believe he won't act to correct the problems and assume he'll do the obvious next time around. But this is year six of him screwing around and he doesn't sound in the least bit repentant or deterred to me. According to him, it's the fans that have the problem, expecting the team to compete and unrealistic shit like that.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Aguero would never sign for us, bigger better more ambitious clubs would be interested.

We paid Campbell 100k+ back in the day, we still could if we wanted to. I'm not saying we should sign the world's very best, but we could sign some top players, can we still attract though with our reputation of being bottlers and our 1st teamers leaving?

You never answered my question just tried to be clever. Did i say he'd ever sign for us. Are you that thick to think we have money to pay top wages.

If you want a club of superstars go support chelsea or city. things will be this bad with this club till the debts are paid off Aw or no AW.

[Darth Vela]

because in a decent team, clichy -- for only 7mil -- will be worldclass.

I doubt he'd make world class but he'll certainly be under less pressure from the bombardiers and get a lot more support from those around him, given their usual tactics. He will still make errors, he'll still give his man too much space and he'll still play players onside though, that will stop him from being world class.

[Boss]

Expect Wenger to spend 30M+ in January when we're struggling to qualify for the CL.

[Power n Glory]

because in a decent team, clichy -- for only 7mil -- will be worldclass.

Clichy has the talent, but needs the guidance. His pace, stamina and attitude isn't something that can be acquired from strict training. Crossing and defensive discipline can. Mancini will be vocal and give him a blocking if he pulls the same stupid mistakes he was pulling here.

[Özim]

You never answered my question just tried to be clever. Did i say he'd ever sign for us. Are you that thick to think we have money to pay top wages.

If you want a club of superstars go support chelsea or city. things will be this bad with this club till the debts are paid off Aw or no AW.
That's a nonsense reply, I already said I don't expect us to sign superstars.....and yes we could sign some quality players and afford their wages if we wanted to, even if we didn't shed the cr*p we overpay in the current squad.

As for your last comment you sound like Wenger, get a grip........if not for Wenger we'd probably see some better players coming in......so Wenger being here is very relevant to our situation.

[Darth Vela]

Expect Wenger to spend 30M+ in January when we're struggling to qualify for the CL.

Losing Clichy is that big a deal? Fuck me, we're really screwed.

[budesonide]

We say the same twice a year and nothing ever comes of it. I think there's a certain degree of disbelief that shields Wenger, people simply can't believe he won't act to correct the problems and assume he'll do the obvious next time around. But this is year six of him screwing around and he doesn't sound in the least bit repentant or deterred to me. According to him, it's the fans that have the problem, expecting the team to compete and unrealistic shit like that.

:laugh:

"people are too impatient" -- AW

Another summer, our defence gets reshuffled. We then have to be patient for 'another season' with the team. Anyone see the trend here?

[Power n Glory]

You never answered my question just tried to be clever. Did i say he'd ever sign for us. Are you that thick to think we have money to pay top wages.

If you want a club of superstars go support chelsea or city. things will be this bad with this club till the debts are paid off Aw or no AW.

With Clichy off the books and few others to make way we can afford to the wages of a top star. If we manage to get rid of Denilson, Almunia and Bendy, that should be enough.

[Boss]

Losing Clichy is that big a deal? Fuck me, we're really screwed.

Weakening a side that struggled heavily towards the end of last season (as we will) is 'that big a deal'.

[Niall_Quinn]

You never answered my question just tried to be clever. Did i say he'd ever sign for us. Are you that thick to think we have money to pay top wages.

If you want a club of superstars go support chelsea or city. things will be this bad with this club till the debts are paid off Aw or no AW.

We've actually been paying the debts off at an accelerated rate. That might seem like a good idea from a business perspective but we've reached the point where that policy now threatens to tear the team to bits. In order to correct the major problems on the field a significant amount of money will have to be spent, and that's unlikely to happen. But the practical side (whilst obviously important) is not even the major issue, the fact the board and the manager have been prepared to see the team go backwards speaks loudly to where their real commitments lie. So even when the debts are paid off (if they ever are because we still don't know for sure how Stan will fund his pay-day for the current bunch of bastards in the boardroom) I wonder what their attitude will be to rebuilding the team up to the promised levels? I wonder how much more money it will cost by then to get the players in and pay them the wages required to convince them to pass up the big clubs in our favour? I think when the debts are paid we're going to hear the same old shit about prudence and our ambition and measurement of success will remain fixated on CL qualification. I believe letting the team go rotten is going to have very long term consequences.

[Ollie the Optimist]

i am so deseperate to see us win something other then the cc this year, not cos i want the club to win but because i want to ssee certain posters admit they were wrong

[Darth Vela]

Weakening a side that struggled heavily towards the end of last season (as we will) is 'that big a deal'.

Or we're taking a risk to strengthen a team that wasn't good enough, something most people seem to be in favour of so can't be that silly.

[Darth Vela]

i am so deseperate to see us win something other then the cc this year, not cos i want the club to win but because i want to ssee certain posters admit they were wrong

Surely it would prove them right? We're going to make changes to the squad and spend a little more, seems to be what most people want and if it brings success then I'm sure it will be a vindication of that.

[Letters]

Weakening a side that struggled heavily towards the end of last season (as we will) is 'that big a deal'.

I don't think we will. Clichy going certainly doesn't. I don't actually think losing Cesc (if we do) does either. IMO we need to rebuilt without him now. If Nasri goes as well...then we could be in more trouble and we'd definitely need to sign to replace him.

I hope we get a big name signing this summer. I'm not expecting Wenger to go nuts, not sure I'd want him to, but someone I've heard of and who would give the fans as well as the squad a lift would be nice.

Just be nice to sign someone I could get excited about again.

[Boss]

Or we're taking a risk to strengthen a team that wasn't good enough, something most people seem to be in favour of so can't be that silly.

We've weakened a squad that was never good enough to win a trophy every transfer window of every year for the last 6 years apart from two windows - both times we looked in real danger of not making the top four.

Wenger's making the same noises this season as he has in the past, has been linked with the same type of players and it seems like the number of our first teamers being linked with a move away is only increasing.

Can't see anything changing unfortunately, I'd be happy to be proven wrong but it's happened too many times before that it's almost impossible it will change this summer.

[budesonide]

I doubt he'd make world class but he'll certainly be under less pressure from the bombardiers and get a lot more support from those around him, given their usual tactics. He will still make errors, he'll still give his man too much space and he'll still play players onside though, that will stop him from being world class.

maybe his mind was no longer here? He said that much recently about what he believed to be a witch-hunt against him after the birmingham disaster. This was a guy who was voted in the league team of year a few years ago. He is not that shi*t.

I have seen Dani Alves and Pique cock up so many times in barca matches but because they are in a brilliant team most of their fuc*k-ups don't end up being costly.

[Niall_Quinn]

i am so deseperate to see us win something other then the cc this year, not cos i want the club to win but because i want to ssee certain posters admit they were wrong

We're ALL desperate to win something, that's why more and more people want Wenger out. We're sick of losing and we're sick of losing in a predictable manner because of problems that could be fixed but aren't being fixed. If you don't want the club to win because they've competed and come out top (we'll need proper players for that), but instead you want to see them win just to spite some of the fans then that's a bit weird. Do you think fans want the team to LOSE?

[Letters]

We've weakened a squad that was never good enough to win a trophy every transfer window of every year for the last 6 years apart from two windows - both times we looked in real danger of not making the top four.


How could we possibly have stayed top 4 were that so?

[Boss]

We're ALL desperate to win something, that's why more and more people want Wenger out. We're sick of losing and we're sick of losing in a predictable manner because of problems that could be fixed but aren't being fixed. If you don't want the club to win because they've competed and come out top (we'll need proper players for that), but instead you want to see them win just to spite some of the fans then that's a bit weird. Do you think fans want the team to LOSE?

:good:

[Elreactor]

So Clichy is gone, which is something some people probably wanted, including me.

Now, considering the current manager, who´s "not going to rush into the market, but is very active on the phone", Gibbs will probably step right into Clichy´s boots. But if not, which LB with at least a couple of PL seasons under his belt and ready for the 1st team do you think we could get for the price City paid for Gael? :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think we will. Clichy going certainly doesn't. I don't actually think losing Cesc (if we do) does either. IMO we need to rebuilt without him now. If Nasri goes as well...then we could be in more trouble and we'd definitely need to sign to replace him.

I hope we get a big name signing this summer. I'm not expecting Wenger to go nuts, not sure I'd want him to, but someone I've heard of and who would give the fans as well as the squad a lift would be nice.

Just be nice to sign someone I could get excited about again.

Time to get excited. I heard we're in for Kevin Doyle and if that doesn't set your knackers on fire I don't know what will.

[Boss]

How could we possibly have stayed top 4 were that so?

Weakened in terms of transfers. That of course doesn't account for players improving - now, I'd agree we've seen a few of them do that, and some of them improve very well even (like Fabregas) but the improvement has never been more than enough to win a trophy and you'd think a broken experiment would have been stopped by now.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Surely it would prove them right? We're going to make changes to the squad and spend a little more, seems to be what most people want and if it brings success then I'm sure it will be a vindication of that.

nah i meant to see wenger win it. cos they all been calling him an idiot and he would have shoved their words back down their throats with interest

[Xhaka Can’t]

i am so deseperate to see us win something other then the cc this year, not cos i want the club to win but because i want to ssee certain posters admit they were wrong

I want to see us win someting because I love the Club rather than to spend a brief moment in the sun as a warrior on an internet messageboard.

[Niall_Quinn]

So Clichy is gone, which is something some people probably wanted, including me.

Now, considering the current manager, who´s "not going to rush into the market, but is very active on the phone", Gibbs will probably step right into Clichy´s boots. But if not, which LB with at least a couple of PL seasons under his belt and ready for the 1st team do you think we could get for the price City paid for Gael? :unsure:

It'll be a tough job getting a decent replacement for £7mill, especially a player with PL experience.

I also foresee a backlash over the latest decision to spend £2mill hanging a giant waiting period countdown clock on the exterior of the stadium. Is that really necessary? Won't other clubs be able to see it?

[budesonide]

We've actually been paying the debts off at an accelerated rate. That might seem like a good idea from a business perspective but we've reached the point where that policy now threatens to tear the team to bits. In order to correct the major problems on the field a significant amount of money will have to be spent, and that's unlikely to happen. But the practical side (whilst obviously important) is not even the major issue, the fact the board and the manager have been prepared to see the team go backwards speaks loudly to where their real commitments lie. So even when the debts are paid off (if they ever are because we still don't know for sure how Stan will fund his pay-day for the current bunch of bastards in the boardroom) I wonder what their attitude will be to rebuilding the team up to the promised levels? I wonder how much more money it will cost by then to get the players in and pay them the wages required to convince them to pass up the big clubs in our favour? I think when the debts are paid we're going to hear the same old shit about prudence and our ambition and measurement of success will remain fixated on CL qualification. I believe letting the team go rotten is going to have very long term consequences.

And that is the sheer idiocy of this policy spear-headed by Wenger. These morons thought that whilst they paid the debts off as quickly as they can and neglect the competitiveness of the squad -- the bread and butter of the club's existence -- the world of football will be frozen in time and wait for us to come around again. That is stoopid.

[Letters]

Weakened in terms of transfers. That of course doesn't account for players improving - now, I'd agree we've seen a few of them do that, and some of them improve very well even (like Fabregas) but the improvement has never been more than enough to win a trophy and you'd think a broken experiment would have been stopped by now.

Maybe in some ways it would have been better to miss out on top 4 one year.
Thing is most years we've been up there, we've had a couple of title challenges, often got to the latter stages of Cup competitions. Not 2% away but not a million miles from winning silverware. That has maybe encouraged Wenger to persist. Frustratingly I don't think he's done that badly and wouldn't have needed to spend megabucks to win big. Project Youth hasn't been a success but it hasn't been an unmitigated disaster either and with a bit more investment could have been Wenger's greatest triumph.

[Niall_Quinn]

nah i meant to see wenger win it. cos they all been calling him an idiot and he would have shoved their words back down their throats with interest

If Wenger buys the players this summer that help us go on to win the PL then nobody will call him an idiot. They call him an idiot at the moment because he's six years late.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think we will. Clichy going certainly doesn't. I don't actually think losing Cesc (if we do) does either. IMO we need to rebuilt without him now. If Nasri goes as well...then we could be in more trouble and we'd definitely need to sign to replace him.

I hope we get a big name signing this summer. I'm not expecting Wenger to go nuts, not sure I'd want him to, but someone I've heard of and who would give the fans as well as the squad a lift would be nice.

Just be nice to sign someone I could get excited about again.

I thought we'd go on to bigger and better things without Vieira, without Cole....Campbell, Lehman....Henry...heck, even Toure, Gallas and Adebayor. I'm not saying some of these players weren't past their peak or disruptive, but everytime we sell we think we'll do better without them and it usually tue opposite. I don't trust Wenger to rally the troops after this season. We've built 3 different teams under Wenger since the Invinbles and none of them have been successful.

[Letters]

And that is the sheer idiocy of this policy spear-headed by Wenger. These morons thought that whilst they paid the debts off as quickly as they can and neglect the competitiveness of the squad -- the bread and butter of the club's existence -- the world of football will be frozen in time and wait for us to come around again. That is stoopid.

It's not massively stupid. The sooner we pay the debt off the sooner the stadium starts working for us rather than against us. The trick is staying competitive while we do that and it's not like we've dropped into mid-table and been completely hopeless. We've fallen short but not by a huge distance and it wouldn't have taken that much investment to have seriously competed over the last few years in situations when we've failed to.

[Power n Glory]

We can't pay the stadium of any quicker according to Gazidis.

[Marc Overmars]

I want to see us win someting because I love the Club rather than to spend a brief moment in the sun as a warrior on an internet messageboard.

Yep.

[budesonide]

nah i meant to see wenger win it. cos they all been calling him an idiot and he would have shoved their words back down their throats with interest

no he wouldn't have shoved anyone's words back down their throats. If anything, all things ponts to the fact that he is th one eating humble pie as I type. His stupid preachings about team spirit and all that 'judge me in May' shi*t are all being shoved down his throat.

If he develops some flexibility in his approach and we win something or at least don't look like fuc*king bottlers that would still have proven right those of us who have been saying he should stop farking around.

[budesonide]

It's not massively stupid. The sooner we pay the debt off the sooner the stadium starts working for us rather than against us. The trick is staying competitive while we do that and it's not like we've dropped into mid-table and been completely hopeless. We've fallen short but not by a huge distance and it wouldn't have taken that much investment to have seriously competed over the last few years in situations when we've failed to.

The ramifications of which is to prove how massively stoopid such negligence has been if we do lose cesc and nasri as well and have to replace them in today's market. Do you see what is going on here? -- we are not losing players because they wany more money (sure it helps); but we are losing them because of the reason underlined in your post above.

[The Verminator]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

Latecomer to this topic but wow, that was a great post NQ. :)

[Darth Vela]

maybe his mind was no longer here? He said that much recently about what he believed to be a witch-hunt against him after the birmingham disaster. This was a guy who was voted in the league team of year a few years ago. He is not that shi*t.

I have seen Dani Alves and Pique cock up so many times in barca matches but because they are in a brilliant team most of their fuc*k-ups don't end up being costly.

Yeah, he's a good player but with a lack of offensive end product and the tendency to fuck up he'll never be world class, maybe he'll exorcise a few demons from the Birmingham match by playing for a different team and improve further but he wasn't going to do that with us regardless.

[fakeyank]

Latecomer to this topic but wow, that was a great post NQ. :)

NQ is hands down the best poster I have seen on an Arsenal subject.. PERIOD! :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

NQ and Gary are my idols.

[Sirjackofwilshere]

NQ is certainly one to emulate. How old is he?? Am I right in assuming hes in his 60s??

[Darth Vela]

Dunno, what age does senility start to set in? ;)

[The Verminator]

Does NQ = bergstar?

[Marc Overmars]

No. Bergy hasn't been on for a while. I'm sure he did make it over after the move though.

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ is certainly one to emulate. How old is he?? Am I right in assuming hes in his 60s??

60! You cheeky bar steward, during the war we knew how to deal with your type!

[Letters]

NQ is hands down the best poster I have seen on an Arsenal subject.. PERIOD! :bow:

Because he has the same toys out of the pram mentality you do?
He does write good posts. I don't agree with them at all but they're well written, I'll give him that.

[Injury Time]

I know a lot didn't like Clichy but I did, was hoping for him to kick on but he scuffed it a bit too regularly :( wonder if he'll improve at Citeh or just raid Toures stash?

[Özim]

I want to see us win someting because I love the Club rather than to spend a brief moment in the sun as a warrior on an internet messageboard.
Pretty much, that's got to be the best reason.

[Boss]

Retired Manchester United midfielder Paul Scholes has questioned Arsenal's pedigree, insisting "they may play the prettiest football, but it doesn't always produce the results they need".

And Scholes appeared to take a dig at Arsene Wenger's failure to deliver the Gunners a trophy since 2005, claiming that his former boss Sir Alex Ferguson wouldn't have allowed such a drought.

The former England star enjoyed his fair share of duels with Arsenal during a stellar 17-year career and saw United pipped to the title by the North Londoners in 1998, 2002 and 2004; but Ferguson's list of triumphs - including 12 league championships and two European Cups in the Premier League era - towers above Wenger's achievements.

Scholes does not believe the Gunners are about to get better any time soon, either, and predicted that United's traditional rivals may be forced to endure further tough times ahead.

"They just flatter to deceive,'' Scholes said. "They may play the prettiest football, but it doesn't always produce the results they need. It doesn't irritate me that people say they're the best footballing team because while they are doing that, we (United) are winning games.

"They do play the best football to watch at times, but what is the point of that if you are not winning anything? Not only that, they are potentially going to lose their best players in (Cesc) Fabregas, (Samir) Nasri and (Gael) Clichy.

"I don't think our manager would allow this club to go six years without a trophy.''

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/932190/paul-scholes:-arsenal-flatter-to-deceive?cc=4716

[Letters]

What's the headline? "Paul Scholes States Bleedin' Obvious Shock Exclusive"?

[milla]

We've weakened a squad that was never good enough to win a trophy every transfer window of every year for the last 6 years apart from two windows - both times we looked in real danger of not making the top four.

Wenger's making the same noises this season as he has in the past, has been linked with the same type of players and it seems like the number of our first teamers being linked with a move away is only increasing.

Can't see anything changing unfortunately, I'd be happy to be proven wrong but it's happened too many times before that it's almost impossible it will change this summer.
If only fat Usmanov is majority owner, he will never let this happen. He will probably sack Wenger for not spending enough money on quality players, lol. :coffee:

[Injury Time]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/932190/paul-scholes:-arsenal-flatter-to-deceive?cc=4716
He can fuck off. He's right but he can still fuck off. Oh god I just thought....here comes another pundit :doh:

[IBK]

Re Clichy - meh. You give me one club that doesn't have at least 1 first teamer leaving each Summer.

Mind you, its easier for me to be meh, because I don't think we are going to be any better than a team scrapping for 4th for the forseeable future. All this angst is driven by fear that we are imploding. I don't think we are - I think that last seaon finally exploded the myth that we are still one of the top tier teams.

Arsenal FC - the Ajax of the 00's.

[Niall_Quinn]

If only fat Usmanov is majority owner, he will never let this happen. He will probably sack Wenger for not spending enough money on quality players, lol. :coffee:

Didn't Usmanov also demand the players smuggle heroin in their colons when returning from the far east tour?

[milla]

Didn't Usmanov also demand the players smuggle heroin in their colons when returning from the far east tour?

No, he did however offer to take over stadium debt and let the club use more money on transfer market. :coffee:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's a nonsense reply, I already said I don't expect us to sign superstars.....and yes we could sign some quality players and afford their wages if we wanted to, even if we didn't shed the cr*p we overpay in the current squad.

As for your last comment you sound like Wenger, get a grip........if not for Wenger we'd probably see some better players coming in......so Wenger being here is very relevant to our situation.

I agree and apologise if i said anything that was rude, just depressed and frustated with the whole ting tbh.

I was not defending AW or the board just stating we can'g afford wages like others which can defer players thats all.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, he did however offer to take over stadium debt and let the club use more money on transfer market. :coffee:

The wolf dressed up as granny too. The guy's bad news, nothing good long term can come from letting a gangster take control of the club even if he is willing to pour his laundered cash into transfers. There's a limit to what's acceptable surely? Stan might be a useless fuck but at least he's legit.

[milla]

The wolf dressed up as granny too. The guy's bad news, nothing good long term can come from letting a gangster take control of the club even if he is willing to pour his laundered cash into transfers. There's a limit to what's acceptable surely? Stan might be a useless fuck but at least he's legit.

No different from any capitalist business man in our board (current and previous). If his name was John, Jack or Dick, no one would say a word about him. :coffee:

[Coney]

No, he did however offer to take over stadium debt and let the club use more money on transfer market. :coffee:

I find the idea that a guy comes in from nowhere and is suddenly such a committed Arsenal fan that he will take over tens of millions of debt just so we can win a few matches. Now for some reason, I think he has an ulterior motive. Can't quite put my finger on it though. ;)

[Niall_Quinn]

No different from any capitalist business man in our board (current and previous). If his name was John, Jack or Dick, no one would say a word about him. :coffee:

I see what you are saying and agree, it's a question of degrees. But if this guy really loved the club and wanted to see it succeed at all costs - wouldn't he just dump the money in anyway, as a gesture of that love? He wants control first, which means he has a commercial interest which is of course fair enough and expected. So I take his expressions of love and shit on them, in much the same way as I shit on every word uttered by our foul board. The trouble I have with Usmanov is in the past he's shown a willingness to stop at nothing, murder, corruption, theft, to achieve his goals. I know most big businessmen are crooked shits in reality, robbing from the poor to feed the rich, but most stick within the (rigged) law and so wouldn't be likely to get the club in too much hot water with their antics, other than maybe a slip down the league. Look at the conman Harry Redknapp, he's small time compared to Usmanov. I dread to think what might come out of the woodwork a couple of years after a Usmanov takeover, stuff that would have the potential to destroy the club entirely. He's too big a risk, I'm surprised he was even allowed to buy his current stake. mind you, it seems the authorities really could give a fuck who gets involved in football provided the money is pouring in. In fact FIFA might even approve and feel more comfortable if we had a gangster running the show - who knows?

[budesonide]

I see what you are saying and agree, it's a question of degrees. But if this guy really loved the club and wanted to see it succeed at all costs - wouldn't he just dump the money in anyway, as a gesture of that love? He wants control first, which means he has a commercial interest which is of course fair enough and expected. So I take his expressions of love and shit on them, in much the same way as I shit on every word uttered by our foul board. The trouble I have with Usmanov is in the past he's shown a willingness to stop at nothing, murder, corruption, theft, to achieve his goals. I know most big businessmen are crooked shits in reality, robbing from the poor to feed the rich, but most stick within the (rigged) law and so wouldn't be likely to get the club in too much hot water with their antics, other than maybe a slip down the league. Look at the conman Harry Redknapp, he's small time compared to Usmanov. I dread to think what might come out of the woodwork a couple of years after a Usmanov takeover, stuff that would have the potential to destroy the club entirely. He's too big a risk, I'm surprised he was even allowed to buy his current stake. mind you, it seems the authorities really could give a fuck who gets involved in football provided the money is pouring in. In fact FIFA might even approve and feel more comfortable if we had a gangster running the show - who knows?

He can't just get up and do that though, could he? He hasn't yet got a controlling share has he? And, we don't know how he is perceived by the rest of the board. We all know the initial reception kroenke got from the board -- until for whatever reason they decided it was okay to go into bed with him.

The club is not a charity -- so even if I was that rich and could pump money into it, I would at least make sure I was in a position to exert some influence on proceedings at said club. Everyone else on the current board would do exactly the same thing.

[IBK]

Its a very different proposition saying you'll do this and that from the outside - particularly when you want to improve your PR - and doing it. For those who need reminding, I give you Messr's Hicks and Gillette; Thaksin Shinawatra and Alexandre Gaydamak.

[milla]

I find the idea that a guy comes in from nowhere and is suddenly such a committed Arsenal fan that he will take over tens of millions of debt just so we can win a few matches. Now for some reason, I think he has an ulterior motive. Can't quite put my finger on it though. ;)

Come on Coney, this is not a big world. He would probably has supported Arsenal for half of his life.

It's like when you first met your missus years ago, love at first sight, "I'll do anything to bang you for you" :coffee:

[milla]

I see what you are saying and agree, it's a question of degrees. But if this guy really loved the club and wanted to see it succeed at all costs - wouldn't he just dump the money in anyway, as a gesture of that love? He wants control first, which means he has a commercial interest which is of course fair enough and expected. So I take his expressions of love and shit on them, in much the same way as I shit on every word uttered by our foul board. The trouble I have with Usmanov is in the past he's shown a willingness to stop at nothing, murder, corruption, theft, to achieve his goals. I know most big businessmen are crooked shits in reality, robbing from the poor to feed the rich, but most stick within the (rigged) law and so wouldn't be likely to get the club in too much hot water with their antics, other than maybe a slip down the league. Look at the conman Harry Redknapp, he's small time compared to Usmanov. I dread to think what might come out of the woodwork a couple of years after a Usmanov takeover, stuff that would have the potential to destroy the club entirely. He's too big a risk, I'm surprised he was even allowed to buy his current stake. mind you, it seems the authorities really could give a fuck who gets involved in football provided the money is pouring in. In fact FIFA might even approve and feel more comfortable if we had a gangster running the show - who knows?

That's utter politic bullshit IMO, why should we worried about what's so far from us when we cant stop our own government from killing innocent people? For all weknow Usmanov is probably just as innocent as our leaders at Downing Street. I don't understand, what would destroy the club? and why would Usmanov destroy the club?

In my eye, it is clear Kroenke look at Arsenal as an investment to make money, but Usmanov seems to look at the club on personal level (sure he is business man). He has his box years before he bought the shares from DD, the same cant be said about Kroenke.

God forbid but if the club goes bankrupt, there will be dozens of suitor who will offer to buy out the debts but right now we need a very strong (financialy) and committed owner. Club cant afford changing owner every few years ala Liverpool. Kroenke is not rich enough and when the time is right he will sell his share for a good profit (like he did in US). That is why I am so hell bent on having Usmanov (or arab investor), they are so rich, what ever happen, they will pour more money into the club. :coffee:

[Xhaka Can’t]

That's utter politic bullshit IMO, why should we worried about what's so far from us when we cant stop our own government from killing innocent people? For all weknow Usmanov is probably just as innocent as our leaders at Downing Street. I don't understand, what would destroy the club? and why would Usmanov destroy the club?

In my eye, it is clear Kroenke look at Arsenal as an investment to make money, but Usmanov seems to look at the club on personal level (sure he is business man). He has his box years before he bought the shares from DD, the same cant be said about Kroenke.

God forbid but if the club goes bankrupt, there will be dozens of suitor who will offer to buy out the debts but right now we need a very strong (financialy) and committed owner. Club cant afford changing owner every few years ala Liverpool. Kroenke is not rich enough and when the time is right he will sell his share for a good profit (like he did in US). That is why I am so hell bent on having Usmanov (or arab investor), they are so rich, what ever happen, they will pour more money into the club. :coffee:

You have just reduced football to supporting the guy with the biggest wallet.

That is fucking sad.

[milla]

You have just reduced football to supporting the guy with the biggest wallet.

That is fucking sad.

No, I only care about who can share the burden of the fans, I aint paying £70-100 to see the dross that we have at the club. What a way to take over the full control of a club by increasing the ticket price. If the owner cant give a toss about keeping the fans happy, he can GTFO.
If I support the guy with the biggest wallet then I would have support Real Madrid or Citeh or Barcelona not Arsenal. It's a fekin insult man, all I care (and support) is a well being of the club and fans. :coffee:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fair play, but your post did not read that way.

[Marc Overmars]

Chelsea are in the mix for Nasri now according to SSN but City is still his likely destination.

I'd rather sell him to the Chavs tbh.

[I_Killed_Kenny]

gotta do a deal with inter, swap for snieder or etoo

[Fist of Lehmann]

Come on Coney, this is not a big world. He would probably has supported Arsenal for half of his life.


Nope. He's was a self-confessed Man Utd fan until he changed his tune recently.

We have Saint Dein to thank for getting this guy a foot in the door. I don't think there is much the authorities can do while due diligence is incumbent on the seller, all you have to do is wave a giant cheque and due diligence takes a running jump. Thanks Dein you orange bastard.

[selassie]

Chelsea are in the mix for Nasri now according to SSN but City is still his likely destination.

I'd rather sell him to the Chavs tbh.

Rumours are they will offer us Kalou and Zhirkov for Nasri.

[Joker]

I really hope we flog the twat ASAP. I despise players who act as if they were completely separate from our failings over the last few years. Nasri has only performed for probably a grand total of 5 months over his 3 years at Arsenal, and yet he acts as if he had not part to play our embarrassingly inept capitulation at the end of last season. I'd be glad to see the back of this twat. The only problem is, we know that our deluded manager will only make a move after the arbitrary "waiting period" is over, by which time quite a few potential replacements may have already been snapped up, reducing the pool of players to choose from, making it harder to get our target.

[Kano]

The only problem is, we know that our deluded manager will only make a move after the arbitrary "waiting period" is over, by which time quite a few potential replacements may have already been snapped up, reducing the pool of players to choose from, making it harder to get our target.

not much else happening for anyone right now, so he seems to be on the money.

[IBK]

I really hope we flog the twat ASAP. I despise players who act as if they were completely separate from our failings over the last few years. Nasri has only performed for probably a grand total of 5 months over his 3 years at Arsenal, and yet he acts as if he had not part to play our embarrassingly inept capitulation at the end of last season. I'd be glad to see the back of this twat. The only problem is, we know that our deluded manager will only make a move after the arbitrary "waiting period" is over, by which time quite a few potential replacements may have already been snapped up, reducing the pool of players to choose from, making it harder to get our target.

I share your thoughts re Nasri. He epitomises a certain type of modern footballer - but neither that, nor his talent, justifies persisting with rewarding someone who wants it all before he has given anything.

[fakeyank]

Rumours are they will offer us Kalou and Zhirkov for Nasri.

I'll take that!

[fakeyank]

Because he has the same toys out of the pram mentality you do?
He does write good posts. I don't agree with them at all but they're well written, I'll give him that.

His mentality is very similar to mine and probably majority of Arsenal fans.. we are all worried with how the football side of our club is run. We just look to be getting weaker by the day and our manager clearly doesnt seem like he has his head out of his arse yet!
Having said this, I hope all the optimists on here (next to extinct) are proved right. I'll eat humble shit if we win something!

[selassie]

I'll take that!

Hmmm...Zhirkov wouldn't be a bad bet at Left back, we could do a lot worse...He's good going forward, though not so hot defensively.

Kalou I don't rate, he's a bit of a headless chicken.

[fakeyank]

Hmmm...Zhirkov wouldn't be a bad bet at Left back, we could do a lot worse...He's good going forward, though not so hot defensively.

Kalou I don't rate, he's a bit of a headless chicken.

I rate Kalou quite a lot. I know Arsene was after him a couple of years back. If not for Drogba and Anelka's awesomeness, he'd be a starter IMO. I'd think he will be a better addition than Arshavin or Theo on the flanks!

[Özim]

I think Kalou is awful personally, seems to miss so many chances (many easy), we don't need another player who spurs chance after chance.

[Boss]

Kalou is garbage.

We'd be praying for Reyes back if we signed him.

[Master Splinter]

Reyes would have been great if he wasn't a pussy.

What a bitch.

[Kaiser]

We're getting Gervinho so Kalou would be pointless as they play the same position. And Zhirkov isn't great defensively and hasn't pulled up any trees offensively either. No thanks.

Give us Essien and some money plz.

[Master Splinter]

Give us Essien and some money plz.

Essien has been woeful for quite a while and now rivals Diaby in the crock stakes.

He was also one of those Good But Not As Good As They Say players. A black Scott Parker tbh.

[Kaiser]

That's true, but he's still an utter beast. And he makes horrific challenges as an added bonus, which is something we need. Fuck this moral high ground the club is trying to cling too.

[Master Splinter]

That's true, but he's still an utter beast. And he makes horrific challenges as an added bonus, which is something we need. Fuck this moral high ground the club is trying to cling too.

As soon as he comes here, he'll be getting yellows in the first minute for a harmless nudge, rather than continuously getting away with vicious assault.

We'll have to rely on Sir Jack and Barton for our cuntery.

[Kaiser]

Agree, but I'd probably go genocidal if Joey Barton signed for Arsenal.

[dazthegooner]

Skysports report that Nasri will be having a talk with Wenger and he's to tell him that he wants to move to Manure... we should tell him to fuck off and die tbh!

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah I heard that as well, tbh if these reports are true then we should just flog him. It's obvious this cunt is not committed and the sooner we're rid of him the better.

It would be pretty annoying if he went there though.

[selassie]

Skysports report that Nasri will be having a talk with Wenger and he's to tell him that he wants to move to Manure... we should tell him to fuck off and die tbh!

I think he'll end up going there. They offered 20million for him a few weeks ago according to the more reliable rags (Guardian, Times etc).

I read that if they up their offer to 25million we'll sell, I suspect they will offer it and he'll go there.

[Darth Vela]

With the extra space and protection Man U get Nasri will be ripping it up over there, offer him to Bayern as they'll need a new Ribery at some point but don't send him to Utd.

[selassie]

With the extra space and protection Man U get Nasri will be ripping it up over there, offer him to Bayern as they'll need a new Ribery at some point but don't send him to Utd.

Agreed.

We should refuse to sell him to any of our domestic rivals, especially Man U.

[Boss]

If they offer the right amount we'll sell fo sho.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Rumours are they will offer us Kalou and Zhirkov for Nasri.

Feck that we should tell em we want Sturridge as part of any deal maybe wilth Zhukov

[Darth Vela]

I assume Sturridge will be wanted by Chelsea next season, he could fit in on the left or right nicely if AVB is going for a similar formation he used at Porto. If he isn't though, chuck 'em Nasri in exchange and apologise for screwing them, Sturridge would score 25+ here, easily.

[Tipsychubbs]

Sturridge would be awesome here I agree, the guy scores for fun. He has that quick reactory predatory instinct that we need in and around the box; and with the amount of chances that we create as well.

[I_Killed_Kenny]

Sturridge would be awesome here I agree, the guy scores for fun. He has that quick reactory predatory instinct that we need in and around the box; and with the amount of chances that we create as well.

hmm a fox in the box? am sure i've heard that before somewhere

[Coney]

With the extra space and protection Man U get Nasri will be ripping it up over there, offer him to Bayern as they'll need a new Ribery at some point but don't send him to Utd.

If we sell him outside the PL, manu will just pay a load of dosh for some other equivalently talented player. Selling to the big buyers in the PL - chavs, manu, citeh - does not have any real effect on what we will be up against as they are going to buy a player of that type/level whether we sell to them or not. If someone wants to offer us silly money for a player with one year left on his contract, then take the money, regardless of who it is.

[Niall_Quinn]

If we sell him outside the PL, manu will just pay a load of dosh for some other equivalently talented player. Selling to the big buyers in the PL - chavs, manu, citeh - does not have any real effect on what we will be up against as they are going to buy a player of that type/level whether we sell to them or not. If someone wants to offer us silly money for a player with one year left on his contract, then take the money, regardless of who it is.

Nasri hits the ground running with his PL experience, an import takes time to settle if he settles at all. Nasri will be awesome for Utd and he'll probably get the playmaker role. I can't think of a better player they could realistically sign given their current requirements, apart from Jack but he's not going there for another couple of years yet.

[Coney]

Nasri hits the ground running with his PL experience, an import takes time to settle if he settles at all. Nasri will be awesome for Utd and he'll probably get the playmaker role. I can't think of a better player they could realistically sign given their current requirements, apart from Jack but he's not going there for another couple of years yet.

I think the bigger factor is how he fits in the team, rather than the 'PL experience' bit.

*Edit - maybe I should say 'settles into the team' rather than 'fits in the team'.

[Darth Vela]

If we sell him outside the PL, manu will just pay a load of dosh for some other equivalently talented player. Selling to the big buyers in the PL - chavs, manu, citeh - does not have any real effect on what we will be up against as they are going to buy a player of that type/level whether we sell to them or not. If someone wants to offer us silly money for a player with one year left on his contract, then take the money, regardless of who it is.

I'm not convinced they'll find a guy with a similar level of talent and experience for that kind of money, I'm not convinced they could find one full stop. I'm not sure how much of that is rational thought and how much of it is 'shit we can't sell anyone who's any good to the Mancs' but I guess there's something to be said for taking the money.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I cant decide which side I am on this........I hate the thought of seling him to anyone of our rivals in the PL especially ones that are oozing talent already but I am also hearing Coney on this that we should seriously thinking of taking the money and using it.........

Nasri will be good for either the Mancs or Chelsea, not too sure of Citeh.......actually I'm not overly convinced about them fullstop

but whereas Cesc seems to suck things up, Nasri I feel would complain like a whore being asked whether they have change for a tenner........and that would wind me right up! had enough of that with Ade

[Fist of Lehmann]

Speaking to a Man Utd fan he seems to think that they will line up with Rooney up front with either Young or Little Peanus tucked up behind in his hole, Fani/Valencia or Park out wide, with Nasbian in the Scholes position.

On paper it's a strong attacking line-up with players in positions that play to their strengths. That was a crap sentence but the sentiment is sound.

[Ernesto]

Alarmingly, your post makes perfect sense, Conewood :(

It just goes to show how far we've dropped as "contenders" when Nasri going to Manchester United from Arsenal suddenly doesn't seem so outlandish.

The one morsel of hope (or consolation) I would give to Gooners is that we also experienced this sort of thing in the close season of 2001, where Vieira was being seriously linked with Real Madrid and Manchester United (I recall F***uson making comments which would now be classed as "tapping up" re Vieira) and we hadn't signed anyone. In the end, we kept Vieira and bought 5 players. Obviously, it's a whole different ball game now what with Chelsea and City and their money, but it is just a smidgen of hope, after all.

I used to think that Wenger used to have the best interests of Arsenal at heart, even as late as last season, but now I'm not so sure. I'm guessing the top bracket of managers out there (the Hiddinks, the Guardiolas, the Mourinhos of this world) are looking at Arsenal and thinking "they're not far off being the best, but they just need a little more discipline and need to keep the nucleus of best players together".

This is why it's so frustrating having Wenger in charge.


If we sell him outside the PL, manu will just pay a load of dosh for some other equivalently talented player. Selling to the big buyers in the PL - chavs, manu, citeh - does not have any real effect on what we will be up against as they are going to buy a player of that type/level whether we sell to them or not. If someone wants to offer us silly money for a player with one year left on his contract, then take the money, regardless of who it is.

[Coney]

Conewood

Don't recognise your handle - how do you know I was Conewood? Who are you? :unsure:

[GP]

Don't recognise your handle


That's what she said.

[Power n Glory]

If we sell him outside the PL, manu will just pay a load of dosh for some other equivalently talented player. Selling to the big buyers in the PL - chavs, manu, citeh - does not have any real effect on what we will be up against as they are going to buy a player of that type/level whether we sell to them or not. If someone wants to offer us silly money for a player with one year left on his contract, then take the money, regardless of who it is.

Selling him to Man U sends out the wrong message. £25m is good business but we won't buy an established player and even if we wanted to, they wouldn't want to play for us. Wenger has to start winning things very soon with this squad otherwise we'll be stuck with this 'stepping stone' reputation. The young kids that are here won't be thinking about a long lasting career here, they'll be thinking about graduating and moving on to one of Europes top clubs.

[Flavs]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_7025155,00.html

:lol:

[IBK]

I can't wait for this guy to leave now. He epitomises the blight in our team - players talking about wanting to win trophies when they themselves have contributed fuck all to the cause. Manure will always get the best players, and IMHO we will not be competing for the title next season, so fuck it. £25M for a player who has shown little consistency and is in the last year if his contract? A nice return thank you. Now fuck off, you mercenary lesbian looking little ****.

PS Manure don't always get it right. Berbatov, anyone?

PPS As everyone that I name myself after turns into a right ****, I'm no longer going to be named after current players.

[Darth Vela]

:lol:

Cue Bergkamp being appointed new manager at Man City and revealing that he never liked Arsenal in the slightest and only stayed here for so long because his favourite Chinese takeaway was just around the corner.

[Boss]

Gael Clichy has revealed he snubbed Liverpool to join Man City.

"With Liverpool contacts have been very serious," Clichy told L'Equipe. "I had phone calls with Damien Comolli, I knew him for a while. Indeed, there was AS Roma too, with a nice project and an exciting proposition. But I wanted to stay in Premier League.

"I like football here and the state of mind. Moreover, City offered me the opportunity to play again Champions League. I don't know if it will be the case during the next two seasons, but next term I will play in it. Money? I would have earned almost the same at Liverpool. The defenders' wages don't evolve a lot.

"I can understand people believe money has been a key factor. It is not the case. Man City is a big club, with a big team, an ambitious club which wants to shine in any competition. Was I fed up to not win any trophy at Arsenal? No. I don't know if City will win anything, and maybe Arsenal will win the title next term. But I believe City has better weapons."

http://blogs.soccernet.com/onthemove/

[Xhaka Can’t]

ho hum

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-23968458-nasri-is-offered-pound-110000-a-week.do

Don't normally print articles, but put this one up as it staes Arsenal are to offer £110k pw to Nasri. I think this is utter baloney as how could someone know Arsenal are 'about' to take a course of action? Why would anyone at the Club provide that information ahead of discussing it with the player or his agent?

[Coney]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-23968458-nasri-is-offered-pound-110000-a-week.do

Don't normally print articles, but put this one up as it staes Arsenal are to offer £110k pw to Nasri. I think this is utter baloney as how could someone know Arsenal are 'about' to take a course of action? Why would anyone at the Club provide that information ahead of discussing it with the player or his agent?

Unless they are 'about' to do it to kick the others (manu, citeh) into offering more for him?

[Kano]

its complete bullshit of course.

article after article of fuck all, yet they know that they have nearly all football fans drying out during the summer, desperate for a fix and hanging on to every single word they make up.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Unless they are 'about' to do it to kick the others (manu, citeh) into offering more for him?

which kind of means that we are playing a game of bluff with the other two, which if called could leave us with egg on our face, dangerous?

[Alias]

If Wenger sells Nasri to United after saying ''no chance'' to the possibility of the transfer taking place he has SURELY betrayed the fans for the last time and even the Wenger knows crowd will have to agree.

I would be sick of selling to United, ugh, and you know he'd score against us all the fucking time too.

[Kano]

when did he say no chance?

[Boss]

"We have a financial disagreement which hasn't yet been settled. We are still in discussions but we haven't agreed a deal."

"'One thing's for sure, we're not selling him to United."

http://football-talk.co.uk/24799/wenger-speaks-out-on-nasri-man-utd-transfer/

More likely he'll go to Citeh anyways.

[Kano]

i doubt he'll go there then

[Alias]

tbh, anything Wenger says, it's most likely the opposite.

[Elreactor]

If Wenger sells Nasri to United after saying ''no chance'' to the possibility of the transfer taking place he has SURELY betrayed the fans for the last time and even the Wenger knows crowd will have to agree.

I would be sick of selling to United, ugh, and you know he'd score against us all the fucking time too.

Of course. If we sold him to United, we´d be losing one of our best players, they´d be getting him, and we´d barely replace him, if at all, with someone cheaper and obviously worse, with the usual "he´ll grow into a star in 5 years". I don´t see the improvement or revolution, it´d only be a big step backwards relative to direct competitors.

Or maybe the revolution is to disband the team and let it be?

[Master Splinter]

Give us Essien and some money plz.

Essien injured again :lol:.

Diaby #2 indeed.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I think a big thing in this is that I feel he doesnt want to stay.......we could offer him the pay day he is looking for but are we meeting the other gurantees he is most certainly looking for.......mainly a team to win with.......I think the answer to that is clear as it stands and wiht other teams capable of offering the same or more and making immediate moves on the transfer market we fall down the pecking order! I only hope the wait is a ruse and that we are courting him to European teams because not sure I really want him at the club, not sure if I want anyone who wants away especially a player who is in 'throw all my toys out the pram' mode

[fari]

I think a big thing in this is that I feel he doesnt want to stay.......we could offer him the pay day he is looking for but are we meeting the other gurantees he is most certainly looking for.......mainly a team to win with.......I think the answer to that is clear as it stands and wiht other teams capable of offering the same or more and making immediate moves on the transfer market we fall down the pecking order! I only hope the wait is a ruse and that we are courting him to European teams because not sure I really want him at the club, not sure if I want anyone who wants away especially a player who is in 'throw all my toys out the pram' mode

for real. altho i cant blame him for wanting more money or for wanting to play on a winning team. i mean what player would not. i really like this guy tho, hope he doesn't leave.

[Coney]

which kind of means that we are playing a game of bluff with the other two, which if called could leave us with egg on our face, dangerous?

No - we end up with Nasri for another year.

[Kano]

i probably wrong but i think wenger is hedging his bets here. obviously he wants to keep nas but must be aware that his chances of doing so are slim.

at the same time he knows utd and chelsea both want a creative guy to fill the centre of their midfield and holding back nas until next season will, he hopes, ensure they go somewhere else, fill their quota and ensure he is moved on abroad come summer 2012. the always excellent philippe auclair is under the impression that spain is his ultimate destination, so in the worst case scenario, i cant see him staying at a rival in the UK for too long anyway

[Kaiser]

Essien injured again :lol:

Diaby #2 indeed.

:lol:

[Boss]

Many were asking what Arsene Wenger was going to do after selling Gael Clichy to Manchester City and on Friday, the Frenchman confirmed what many feared.

Speaking to Arsenal Player, the Arsenal boss confessed that the reason why he let the 25-year old go is to give a possibility to 21-year old Kieran Gibbs, explaining that the young Englishman needs to play in order to show that he can be as good as his predecessor.

Asked about what it means to lose an important player, Wenger explained that Clichy’s attitude has been fantastic since he joined from Cannes in the summer of 2003 and that there’s a lot more to come from the French International.

The manager concluded by saying that his objective this summer is not to lose more important elements of the squad, showing delight at the return of Belgium’s Thomas Vermaelen who missed a big part of last season, through injury.

On Kieran Gibbs, Wenger said:

[Allowing Gael Clichy to leave?] The reasoning is that Kieran Gibbs, at some stage, has to get a chance to play.

Gael had only one year to go, I rate him very highly but I rate as well highly Kieran Gibbs and he is now at an age, as an English hope, he has to play and that’s the main reason behind that, was to give an opportunity to Kieran Gibbs to play.

We had a fantastic attitude and fantastic service from Gael [Clichy]. I took him in Cannes when he was 16-years old and I think he has made a magnificent career and there’s a lot more to come from him, I believe that the club can be very proud and Gael as well.

I have said many times that we were very close to winning things last season, despite the disappointment we had at the end. I hope that provokes a response from my players. We were so close this time we want to come back and achieve it.

My responsibility is first of all not to lose players and then to add what can make us stronger because when you’re so close as we were last year, it is important to keep your strengths.

I think we have added already Thomas Vermaelen who we can say has not played last season at all.

http://www.thegunninghawk.com/2011/07/09/arsene-wenger-confirms-kieran-gibbs-will-take-over-from-gael-clichy/?

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt195/Bustersword910/Motivational%20Posters/not_sure_if_srs.jpg?t=1261523533

[selassie]

http://www.thegunninghawk.com/2011/07/09/arsene-wenger-confirms-kieran-gibbs-will-take-over-from-gael-clichy/?

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt195/Bustersword910/Motivational Posters/not_sure_if_srs.jpg?t=1261523533

Well a leopard doesn't change it's spots. Arsene is like a broken record with his insane ramblings about giving developing players a chance in the first team and players returning from long term injuries as being like "new signings".

[IBK]

Maybe Gibbs'll come good?

[milla]

Maybe Gibbs'll come good?

Maybe or maybe we will end up with Eboue at LB :coffee:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Maybe Gibbs'll come good?

A shitleopard doesn't change his shitspots.

[Kano]

cole and clichy came in, there were big doubts about what they could achieve too and for a quite a while, cole was not very good at his primary responsibility of defending

[Özim]

http://www.thegunninghawk.com/2011/07/09/arsene-wenger-confirms-kieran-gibbs-will-take-over-from-gael-clichy/?

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt195/Bustersword910/Motivational%20Posters/not_sure_if_srs.jpg?t=1261523533
Deluded Wenger at it again, Gibbs can't defend for toffee.

This guy is hardly going to help our defence, plus he lasts half a game before he's injured again.

Wenger is so cheap even a pound shop would be overpriced for him.

[hobson's choice]

Gibbs is definitely a talent, but he won't improve here, we don't care about defense. Luckily Sagna has'nt been ruined by this team, he probably just ignores everything the coaching staff tells him about defending.

[Injury Time]

By this logic we will always be 2% away from domination because the next one will need time to play or develop rather than saying, this is our first team you are a squad player deal with it until you break through or given our strange pay structure say they are all first team players and rotate them. <_<

[Kano]

Arsenal have been caught up in two of the summer's loudest transfer sagas, over whether the captain Cesc Fábregas will move back to Barcelona and if Samir Nasri will join either of the Manchester clubs. Arsène Wenger, the manager, has kept his counsel but in his first interview of the pre-season, from Malaysia, where the club have begun their mini-tour of the Far East, he was keen to clarify his position.

Why are you so confident that Cesc Fábregas will stay?
I am confident because I hope he will see that there will be no greater achievement for him in his life than to lead this team to success and that it will not be the right period for him to leave the club.

In one breath, you say "confident" but in the next, you say "hope". There seem to be a few grey areas ...
I think Cesc has always been torn between his love for Arsenal that I feel is really genuine and, as well and what you can understand, the desire to play for the biggest team, at the moment, in the world. I think both exist in his head.

Have you had a meeting with him since his return for pre-season last week to discuss where his head and his heart are leaning?
Yes. I cannot speak about the meeting but he knows that I want him to stay.

He is under contract until 2015 so, technically, he cannot force his way out?
No, but you can only be in if you are completely in. He is the leader of the team. He has to be completely focused and convinced that he wants to stay.

If he is not completely focused, Arsenal would presumably still not let him go unless they got what they felt was the right price for him?
Yes. But we want to keep him and for us, it's not a question of money. We are not there to make the money. We are there to keep our best players. We have managed the club well to be in a position to say "No". For any money. We have the potential to do that because we are in a healthy financial situation. But, on the other hand, you need as well the player wanting to be with you.

That's clearly the issue, isn't it? You have to be convinced that Cesc, in his heart, wants to stay, 100% ...
I am convinced, but I want him to be convinced.

Surely, he can give his best on the pitch only if he is 100% committed?
Some people questioned his last season but I never question his commitment. This guy is a real winner and if he did not have the expected season, it was down to injuries. He played in some games where he was not right completely but he wanted to play, to win.

You seem to be in a similar situation with Samir Nasri?
No. Samir's situation is clear for me.

He definitely stays, come what may?
He stays.

So if a club comes in with a big offer, knowing that he's in the final year of his contract, you will say, "You're staying..."
I've just told you that we are in a position where we can say "No".

And you will, in the case of Samir?
We will.

You think that it is worth more to have Samir for one more season and risk losing him on a Bosman free next summer than to cash in now?
Yes.

That could be construed as a £20m gamble?
[Smiling.] You are the same people who reproach me for not spending money and now you reproach me for wanting to spend it! It is in the interests of the club. Fábregas is in no man's land ... Imagine the worst situation, that we lose Fábregas and Nasri; you cannot convince people that you are ambitious after that. And even if you lose Nasri, to find the same quality player, you have to spend again the same amount of money because you cannot say you lose the player and you do not replace him. And the other clubs who come to take him have scouts all over the world as well but if they come to us for our player ...

You clearly don't want to sell Cesc but it's been like a feeding frenzy with the Catalans saying, officially and unofficially, that they will get him for this amount and that they will get him. Is there a message that you want to send to them, once and for all?
Ha ha. You know what they do. I can only speak for ourselves. For us, it's not a question of money. It's a question of desire. We want Cesc to be with us but we want him as well to be happy with us. I have heard people say that we do not want to keep Cesc. We are desperate to keep Cesc. And we will fight for everything because you do not educate a player for eight years as we have done only to want him to go once he is at an age to deliver. We want to keep the team together.

The boldest official statement from Barcelona this summer came from the president Sandro Rosell when he said that Cesc was worth less now than what he bid for him last summer [£40m]?
That is disrespectful to Cesc. I rate Cesc so highly that for me, he is top, top, world class. He is certainly in the top five midfield players in the world.

In summary, if Cesc is not happy, you would let him go?
I want him to be happy and to stay.

But if he said he was unhappy...?
That's the only way, he could get out. I don't think he's unhappy but he wants to go back to Barcelona. If we wanted to make a money situation and wanted to sell the player, we put him on the market and we ask "Who gives more?" But that would not be the conversation. For us, it's not a question of money. It is a question of Cesc wanting to be with us. And I think he is torn because he loves the club deeply. We will fight until the last second to keep him.

How important is it that you emerge from the transfer window with a bigger and stronger squad
The message that we give out is important. For example, you see about Fábregas leaving, Nasri leaving ... if you give that message out, you cannot pretend you are a big club. Because a big club, first of all, holds on to its big players and gives a message out to all the other big clubs that they cannot come in and take away from you.

You have big games at the start of the season before the window closes, including the Champions League qualifiers...
I have a basic team in my head that can start the season and it is important as well to settle psychologically and that the players who are here focus on the season and not the transfer market. The players who are here will ask "Will he go, will he go?" That is not the way to prepare for the season.

Would a major signing convince the players who are ambivalent about staying?
What is very difficult for us is that as long as you do not know that this group stays together, you cannot strengthen the team because you think, "If he goes, I have to do what?" I also cannot really tell you [a transfer target], I want you because if he stays, you cannot come in. So you are in no man's land and that is terrible. That is why the transfer period basically should stop when the training starts.

So you need Fábregas to give you a quick answer, one by this week?
We have to stop at some stage. Cesc now comes back to training in London from a muscle injury so I hope we can close that very quickly. In our favour.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I see he again skirts around the issues of transfers.

[budesonide]

suddenly wenger wants us to believe that he gives a fuc*k that we are a big club?

i thought he and the board were of the impression that the fans have too high an expectation and are too impatient?

where was that mentality when he flogged off first team player after first team player and replaced them with fuc*king project kids?

suddenly, losing cesc and nasri would send out the wrong message? fuc*k off.

yeah, the message it will send is that for six years you have bent the club backwards and fuc*ked it quite badly all because of some egotistical and misguided idealogy.

fark. off.

[Injury Time]

Any chance could change thread title to "Clichy gone to Citeh, Nasri in talks" please? @GB.: