Match Reaction vs Chelsea (away).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Season starter. :bow:

Probably not but at least it's not another pumping.

[Letters]

Would have taken that, I guess.

[Niall_Quinn]

Chavs there for the taking. They were shit today.

Wenger has no bollocks and needs to get the fuck out of the club.

I'm not giving him credit for having his midfielders play in midfield and his defenders defend. That's expected as a bare minimum, not as a surprising one-off.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Given we've lost the last five league matches at Stamford Bridge, not a bad performance at all

But you feel the way Chelsea set up benefits us.

We are going to struggle far more this season with teams that employ the high press like Liverpool and Spurs

[Master Splinter]

Clear that Ozil not playing in a pressurised away game made all the difference. The midfield and front three all pressed Chelsea and kept them on edge. Ozil would have been fairying around, losing 50-50s, making sloppy passes and eventually disappearing into the ether where he often dwells.

Lacashite should have scored but I think once he has a big game and gets a few +1s, he'll be fine. He's not really getting more than one or two chances per game. Start him against Doncaster tbh so he can bang in about seven.

Shame Welbz is out for another two years.

Kolasinac is awlsome.

Wenger :bow:.

[hobson's choice]

Good result, our play off the ball was immense, Monreal really showed strong leadership out there.

Second half really couldn't do much, but the concentration never lasped, and they weathered every Chelsea attack.

Good team game

Lets keep this up

[Gooner23]

Decent performance. Monreal and Kos were superb. Ramsey was very good on the ball, it's still way to easier for our midfield to be bypassed though.

In fairness I thought we'd get pumped, so pleasantly surprised that didn't happen.

[Marc Overmars]

We're back!

[Cripps]

Defence :bow:
Mustafa :bow:
Ramsey :bow:

Thought Wenger made the right subs today.. laca had a bad day so Sanchez was a good sub. And bringing on elneny to tighten things up.

Particularly happy that we seem to be doing better against this new era Chelsea team.. the old era was horrific.

[Cripps]

Also ozil: please leave.

[AFC Leveller]

Clear that Ozil not playing in a pressurised away game made all the difference. The midfield and front three all pressed Chelsea and kept them on edge. Ozil would have been fairying around, losing 50-50s, making sloppy passes and eventually disappearing into the ether where he often dwells.

Lacashite should have scored but I think once he has a big game and gets a few +1s, he'll be fine. He's not really getting more than one or two chances per game. Start him against Doncaster tbh so he can bang in about seven.

Shame Welbz is out for another two years.

Kolasinac is awlsome.

Wenger :bow:.

Agree 100% on Ozil. He is your guy if you're playing Bournemouth, Stoke, West Brom etc at home where he doesnt need to chase and harry but in the big away games, i dont think he should start. I think we should always have 2 DCMs + Ramsay and two wide attackers. This gives us a nice ballance.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I suppose I kind of agree with NQ that Chelsea did seem there for the taking but then again how much of that was due to the careful & disciplined way we played? You're never going to create a shedload of chances against Chelsea at the Bridge and we created enough to really win that match. Can't really blame Wenger here for that one.

The Welbeck injury is definitely worrying though because our current style of play is heavily dependent on the energy & legs he brings up front - Wenger will have to adapt things until he returns.

Ramsey .... why couldn't he have been that saavy against Pool?

[Alpha]

A honest man accepts when he is wrong. Everyone was predicting Chelsea victory but it didn't happen. Credit where's due . Wenger got his tactics right. Mustafi nearly won it .
A point at Stamford bridge against the current champions is not a bad result at all.

[mastermind84]

Playing 3 central midfielders.:good:

[Xhaka Can’t]

A very good professional performance.

More of this, especially in big games please.

[Niall_Quinn]

A honest man accepts when he is wrong. Everyone was predicting Chelsea victory but it didn't happen. Credit where's due . Wenger got his tactics right. Mustafi nearly won it .
A point at Stamford bridge against the current champions is not a bad result at all.

An honest man knows that one instance of Wenger not doing something crazy with the team selection, positions and tactics doesn't mean a corner has been turned. I don't think Wenger had anything to do with the defensive performance today, it was far too organised and we weren't leaving those huge gaps. The idea Wenger has changed and spent the week drilling the defence is far fetched. Perhaps he has finally relinquished his grip and let his coaches do some coaching. I hope so. It was also strange seeing the midfield play in a disciplined manner. Again, most un-Wenger like. And the passing was crisp and generally aimed towards the opposition half of the pitch. Hardly a Wenger hallmark.

I wonder if he had any part in today's performance. I'm not prepared to give him an ounce of credit until we see sane performances on a more regular basis. He's had far too many fuck-ups to be getting a pat on the back after a solid, if uninspiring, 0-0 against a top 4 opponent. We should be expecting, as a starting point, we can go to places like that and at least compete and it's embarrassing to be coming away from the match relieved we didn't get a pasting. There's no cause to celebrate avoiding humiliation.

[Niall_Quinn]

Playing 3 central midfielders.:good:

I prefer it to our usual zero midfielders. Seems to work better.

[KSE Comedy Club]

All he has to do now is get Sanchez and lacazette on the field together up front.

We might be an it more potent then.

[selassie]

I thought we put in a really professional and disciplined performance today, I'm kind of gutted we didn't take all 3 points as I felt we were the stronger team.

Some stand out displays out there today, Ramsey was superb, as was the back 3 and wing backs.

I just hope we can keep up this decent form and start picking up 3 points regularly.

[Marc Overmars]

We have some very straight forward games now until the start of November when we play City and Spurs back to back. Should be enough to build up some false hope once again before the rude awakening.

[Alpha]

An honest man knows that one instance of Wenger not doing something crazy with the team selection, positions and tactics doesn't mean a corner has been turned. I don't think Wenger had anything to do with the defensive performance today, it was far too organised and we weren't leaving those huge gaps. The idea Wenger has changed and spent the week drilling the defence is far fetched. Perhaps he has finally relinquished his grip and let his coaches do some coaching. I hope so. It was also strange seeing the midfield play in a disciplined manner. Again, most un-Wenger like. And the passing was crisp and generally aimed towards the opposition half of the pitch. Hardly a Wenger hallmark.

I wonder if he had any part in today's performance. I'm not prepared to give him an ounce of credit until we see sane performances on a more regular basis. He's had far too many fuck-ups to be getting a pat on the back after a solid, if uninspiring, 0-0 against a top 4 opponent. We should be expecting, as a starting point, we can go to places like that and at least compete and it's embarrassing to be coming away from the match relieved we didn't get a pasting. There's no cause to celebrate avoiding humiliation.


I'm trying to find a right word to put here . Either you are being bias or just unfair. If Wenger always get sticks when things go wrong why can't he get an '' undeserved '' praise when he got it right ?
It wasn't an easy game away from home ground. Some even claimed Chelsea were there for the taking . Do they forget they are the reigning champions? Do they mistake them with Crystal Palace or Brighton ? We should have won it if we had taken our chances but a draw at Stamford bridge is not a bad result at all in my opinion.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm trying to find a right word to put here . Either you are being bias or just unfair. If Wenger always get sticks when things go wrong why can't he get an '' undeserved '' praise when he got it right ?
It wasn't an easy game away from home ground. Some even claimed Chelsea were there for the taking . Do they forget they are the reigning champions? Do they mistake them with Crystal Palace or Brighton ? We should have won it if we had taken our chances but a draw at Stamford bridge is not a bad result at all in my opinion.

Wenger's getting stick from me all season long no matter what he does. He can be revealed as the son of God for all I care. His decision to stay was unforgivable. Call that biased if you want but Wenger made enemies for life when he placed his own interests over that of the club and went whining to Stan for a new contract.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Couldn't believe he started Iwobi to be honest and that's despite liking Iwobi. Suppose he knew Iwobi could and would slip into the middle to support when necessary.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Gotta love Souness...saying Luiz' tackle was a red card + :lol: and rightly pointing out WTF was Conte waving an imaginary card for in the same incident!??

LOL

[Alpha]

Wenger's getting stick from me all season long no matter what he does. He can be revealed as the son of God for all I care. His decision to stay was unforgivable. Call that biased if you want but Wenger made enemies for life when he placed his own interests over that of the club and went whining to Stan for a new contract.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is sometimes dangerous when we are too emotional when analyzing. We lose common sense and become blind to some relevant facts .
wishing you a good Sunday.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think NQ does have a point. Should we really be giving the manager credit for doing what is the bare minimum required of a manager to put a side out with a game plan and discipline.

Game plan and discipline aside if it had been a Diego Costa put through by Fabregas and not Pedro we would be talking about another predictable defeat.

This is very similar to the draw we got at Old Trafford two years ago to stop the rot of five straight defeats

It's nice but it means very little. Still haven't won away to one of our top six rival in the last fourteen attempts

Spurs 2-1 Arsenal
Man United 1-1 Arsenal
Chelsea 2-0 Arsenal
Liverpool 3-3 Arsenal
Man United 3-2 Arsenal
Spurs 2-2 Arsenal
City 2-2 Arsenal
Man United 1-1 Arsenal
City 2-1 Arsenal
Chelsea 3-1 Arsenal
Liverpool 3-1 Arsenal
Spurs 2-0 Arsenal
Liverpool 4-0 Arsenal
Chelsea 0-0 Arsenal

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger ran out of credit a long time ago, to simply not get hammered and put up a fight is no reason at all to make a point of giving out praise, we're not Brighton or Huddersfield. We should be standing up to Chelsea and others every time we visit their places. Yes people are quick to bash Wenger and sometimes unfairly but that's because he's got it wrong a lot more times than he has right in recent memory.

Performances like this away at rivals are often outliers that gain mythical status (0-2 vs City anyone?), so I'm very reluctant to think of this as anything other than a one off. Besides, we didn't even win this one and remain without an away goal. All we can do is hope that our poor little lambs have built up their fragile confidence again to go on a run until the next acid tests come.

[Power n Glory]

There is always one token game where the players turn up and defend as a unit but we never see the same sort of performance after that. This could have been that game.

[Power n Glory]

Agree 100% on Ozil. He is your guy if you're playing Bournemouth, Stoke, West Brom etc at home where he doesnt need to chase and harry but in the big away games, i dont think he should start. I think we should always have 2 DCMs + Ramsay and two wide attackers. This gives us a nice ballance.

I could live with Ozil's lack of defending if he made up for it with his attacking play. He doesn't.

It's not all on Ozil though. We need that same sort of effort and discipline from Ramsey and Xhaka for every game. If Iwobi keeps starting games, he has to defend and track back like we saw yesterday. Last season we wouldn't even bother to track back and a serious weak link down the left. Hopefully, he's learned his lesson.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think last season we struggled massively with teams that pressed us on the ball

Liverpool, Spurs, City at the Etihad, PSG

Ramsey and Xhaka no matter how disciplined they play cannot deal with the high press.

[Power n Glory]

I think last season we struggled massively with teams that pressed us on the ball

Liverpool, Spurs, City at the Etihad, PSG

Ramsey and Xhaka no matter how disciplined they play cannot deal with the high press.

Definitely. Neither have the quick feet or ball control to get out of tight spaces when teams press. Xhaka has a bad habit of passing to the opposition when pressed and we saw another example of that against Chelsea in the first half. But this is more of a possession issue and when we have the ball. When we don't have it, they need to show discipline.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Definitely. Neither have the quick feet or ball control to get out of tight spaces when teams press. Xhaka has a bad habit of passing to the opposition when pressed and we saw another example of that against Chelsea in the first half. But this is more of a possession issue and when we have the ball. When we don't have it, they need to show discipline.

I agree but at the same token, we will still end up getting beaten by these sides where they wear us down by constantly winning back the ball in our half. I don't rate Coquelin but one thing he is unquestionably better at than others is winning the ball back, what we need is him partnered with a player who can keep posession under pressure against such teams (in theory anyway he played for us when we got battered 5-1 at Bayern)

[Power n Glory]

I agree but at the same token, we will still end up getting beaten by these sides where they wear us down by constantly winning back the ball in our half. I don't rate Coquelin but one thing he is unquestionably better at than others is winning the ball back, what we need is him partnered with a player who can keep posession under pressure against such teams (in theory anyway he played for us when we got battered 5-1 at Bayern)

Coquelin has a limited role but it's important. I also think Elneny is underrated. They both lack attacking flair but that's where my criticism of Ozil comes in. In theory, we should be able to put two defensive minded players behind him so he's free to attack and create but it never works. Maybe with Sanchez and Ozil playing with Lacazette as striker we'd get a bit more of a balance. Who knows.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Coquelin has a limited role but it's important. I also think Elneny is underrated. They both lack attacking flair but that's where my criticism of Ozil comes in. In theory, we should be able to put two defensive minded players behind him so he's free to attack and create but it never works. Maybe with Sanchez and Ozil playing with Lacazette as striker we'd get a bit more of a balance. Who knows.

In theory yes, but in reality we would need a Gilberto/Vieira midfield partnership because Ozil scarcely ventures back to take the ball on.

Although I prefer Ozils passing range, there's no doubt Fabregas was more inclined to do that (although he had infuriating tendency to pass when there was no pass on).

[AFC Leveller]

The team have no excuses now, they showed they could do it away at a big club and they need to show the same discipline and shape every game now.

[Power n Glory]

The team have no excuses now, they showed they could do it away at a big club and they need to show the same discipline and shape every game now.

This has been going on for ages. Nothing will change.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I would give Wilshere more games. I think in form, he is probably one of most competent central midfielders at keeping posession and driving forward with the ball.

Well it would be Cazorla but in all honesty we've probably seen the last of the poor guy, Wenger broke him

[Niall_Quinn]

I see what Keown is up to now. I was wondering what role he served at the club.


There has been so much fear at Arsenal of losing Alexis Sanchez and Mesut Ozil. This excellent performance at Chelsea without them made you wonder what all the fuss was about.

Without these two, Arsenal were much better defensively. They were disciplined, worked together and pressed as a unit to close down Chelsea.

This was the first time that Chelsea have failed to score at Stamford Bridge under Antonio Conte. When Chelsea were in possession, Arsenal put them under such pressure they made Gary Cahill look like he could not pass.

How many times do you see Sanchez flying forward to press and no one coming to join him? Arsene Wenger has not been brave enough to leave out Ozil but how much does he offer the team?

With midfielders working around him, Aaron Ramsey was able to get on the ball more. He ran the show in midfield and it was his best display for years.

For this Arsenal team, it was a chance to step up and prove that they did not need Sanchez and Ozil to perform.

I am not saying that these two should be frozen out. Sanchez did well when he came on and both men still have a part to play.

But from now on, every player must adopt this level of organisation in tricky away games. This showed the strength of their XI is better than any individual.

Let me translate.

Arsenal don't need marquee players. The manager has no idea how to use them anyway. Instead, get used to eleven journeymen huffing and puffing through Stoke-like performances which will appear to be acceptable based only on the fact things can't get much worse. Wilshere, Ramsey and Ox (oh no, he's gone, never mind) are the future. No big expenditure required, no need for star players. Arsenal can cement second tier status without going near a transfer window. We have everything we need to be organised and very, very ordinary. Henry, Bergkamp, Pires and Vieira? Thanks for the memories and welcome to Lampard, Cattermole and Peter Crouch, good, honest... you know the rest.

[Bumble]

I see what Keown is up to now. I was wondering what role he served at the club.



Let me translate.

Arsenal don't need marquee players. The manager has no idea how to use them anyway. Instead, get used to eleven journeymen huffing and puffing through Stoke-like performances which will appear to be acceptable based only on the fact things can't get much worse. Wilshere, Ramsey and Ox (oh no, he's gone, never mind) are the future. No big expenditure required, no need for star players. Arsenal can cement second tier status without going near a transfer window. We have everything we need to be organised and very, very ordinary. Henry, Bergkamp, Pires and Vieira? Thanks for the memories and welcome to Lampard, Cattermole and Peter Crouch, good, honest... you know the rest.

whats wrong with Lampard? Think a player like him would be incredibly useful at arsenal... a goal scoring midfielder yes please.

[Niall_Quinn]

whats wrong with Lampard? Think a player like him would be incredibly useful at arsenal... a goal scoring midfielder yes please.

I'm not talking about the quality of the player, I'm talking about the style and the game such players are best suited to. Keown was from the same school and that's fine, he was a good defender too, but you need a mix of players to make a good team. Stick 11 Lampards or Keowns on the pitch though and you're fucked. But we can have 1 Keown and 1 Bergkamp, can't we?

Sunday's result is turning out to be embarrassing in so many new ways. Wow, well done Arsenal, you didn't get thumped 6-0. Wow, the lads turned up, well done, fit to wear the shirt. Wow, we defended properly. Wow, we pressed the ball. Wow, we kicked the ball towards the opposition goal.

None of these things are supposed to be remarkable, not unless the underlying theme is Arsenal are shit, but this was pretty good by their standards. Not sure if fools like Keown realise this is what they are effectively doing when they turn what was really only a bog standard performance into a special moment and then applaud journeymen and conclude we don't need anything better. It's like Keown is revelling in our second tier status.

When the chavs defend, do the pundits say wow, they are defending?

[selassie]

I'm not talking about the quality of the player, I'm talking about the style and the game such players are best suited to. Keown was from the same school and that's fine, he was a good defender too, but you need a mix of players to make a good team. Stick 11 Lampards or Keowns on the pitch though and you're fucked. But we can have 1 Keown and 1 Bergkamp, can't we?

Sunday's result is turning out to be embarrassing in so many new ways. Wow, well done Arsenal, you didn't get thumped 6-0. Wow, the lads turned up, well done, fit to wear the shirt. Wow, we defended properly. Wow, we pressed the ball. Wow, we kicked the ball towards the opposition goal.

None of these things are supposed to be remarkable, not unless the underlying theme is Arsenal are shit, but this was pretty good by their standards. Not sure if fools like Keown realise this is what they are effectively doing when they turn what was really only a bog standard performance into a special moment and then applaud journeymen and conclude we don't need anything better. It's like Keown is revelling in our second tier status.

When the chavs defend, do the pundits say wow, they are defending?

I agree with this and I would go as far as to say the Chelsea performance should be the standard we set Period. We shouldn't need to organise ourselves just for the big game when under immense pressure, we should be putting in this type of performance regularly if we harbour ambitions to challenge for the title. Wenger and Gazidis regularly tell us we have world class players in our squad and that they believe we can challenge so we should be demonstrating that on a weekly basis.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No but watching us it's obvious to see its not our forte. Yes it is disappointing that it should be seen as uncharacteristic. For me what's even more galling is that Spurs of all teams are at their best one of the few sides that have got the balance absolutely right between attack and defence. And we know if they were capable of doing that all season that they would have been champions last season or the season before.

Arsenal used to have a unique identity, and we just don't anymore and that's the most dispiriting thing. Wenger sets us up at times like we are a team that just has to show up to get three points like we were the invincibles or Barcelona, he can't get it into his head that no matter what he sees in training we have a lot of average players picking up big pay packets.

Liverpool are just as shocking in defence, but you get the impression that this is a team that on its day could beat anyone or at least put in a performance.

That's the irony, Wenger is seen as stubbornly sticking to a footballing philosophy. What philosophy?. It's easier to see what's going on in magic eye pictures.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I would give Wilshere more games. I think in form, he is probably one of most competent central midfielders at keeping posession and driving forward with the ball.

Well it would be Cazorla but in all honesty we've probably seen the last of the poor guy, Wenger broke him

Tbh at this stage I'd give Maitland-Niles a go at CM rather than Jack. The guy has the physical and technical attributes to play in the role and eventually go on to be a lot better than Jack is - the club really rate him highly. I'd love for him to start getting 10 mins at the end of most games instead of a Jack or an Elneny tbh.

The problem with Jack is that given that's unlikely going to sign a new contract (due to the way he feels he's been unrespected by the club) so there's not point really developing him further at this point. If we play him and he recaptures some of his form, it's only ultimately going to benefit another club.

[Penguin]

The team have no excuses now, they showed they could do it away at a big club and they need to show the same discipline and shape every game now.

People said the same thing after we beat Man City a couple of years ago. You know the one where Coquelin had the performance of his life. That performance was much more impressive than yesterday's one because we were playing against a much better attacking team.

We learned nothing from that game because we've absolutely destroyed more times than I can remember.

Nothing will change from yesterday's game.

[AFC Leveller]

I think it is embarrassing that we are being praised for getting a 0-0 and doing the basics right. If we turn up once every 4-5 keys games then inevitable we won't be able to challenge. As someone said, Spuds have the right balance and approach to almost every game and they hardly get their ass whopped by anyone, they are hard to beat and create chances against anybody.

Could it be that Wenger only works as hard in the training ground after a heavy defeat and then goes back to the same old tried and failed method. He has to drill his players and coach then properly for every game, there is no other way.

[AFC Leveller]

People said the same thing after we beat Man City a couple of years ago. You know the one where Coquelin had the performance of his life. That performance was much more impressive than yesterday's one because we were playing against a much better attacking team.

We learned nothing from that game because we've absolutely destroyed more times than I can remember.

Nothing will change from yesterday's game.

It is weird that we never really built on that performance, we showed that day that we can beat the big sides provided we do the basics right.

I honestly think it comes from Wenger's approach, he doesn't place too much importance to tactics, formations, discipline etc and it shows when you look at his record in the big games.

[Penguin]

Yeah that's definitely the problem. The funny thing is that it was the players who begged Wenger to let them play more defensively in that game. If they didn't do that I wonder if we would have been on the wrong end of another thrashing.

[Power n Glory]

People said the same thing after we beat Man City a couple of years ago. You know the one where Coquelin had the performance of his life. That performance was much more impressive than yesterday's one because we were playing against a much better attacking team.

We learned nothing from that game because we've absolutely destroyed more times than I can remember.

Nothing will change from yesterday's game.

Or how about the game against Man Utd, or even Chelsea last season? Plenty of these one off games scattered around the years. It means nothing.

[Marc Overmars]

That City win and the manner of the performance was an anomaly, it's very difficult to draw conclusions from anything we do that's out of character because it happens so rarely.

Though in fairness I don't think anyone genuinely believes this Chelsea performance will set a precedent, we've all been around the block one too many times for that. I just don't really like the performance being spoken about as though we've gone above and beyond. For a start we didn't even win. It's small time and reserved for the cannon fodder of the league when they take points off the big teams. Chelsea are certainly not our superiors and we should always look to take them on in this manner.

I'm sure we will see our annual go nuts and hammer a decent team match soon as well. Another seasonal anomaly.

[Static]

Chelsea are certainly not our superiors and we should always look to take them on in this manner.

Of course they are. Just compare their recent trophy haul vs ours. They have the better manager and arguably better players. They have a better recruitment policy. Their transfer budget is spent on transfer fees and doesn't include the player's wages. We're inferior in every single way except the moral high road way.

[Penguin]

His point was that we shouldn't be celebrating playing for a draw against them as if we were Huddersfield or Burnley. We should be going there to get a result every time instead of bending over to any half decent team.

Realistically that wont happen unless we get a new manager.

[Letters]

I don't think we are celebrating like that. I'm pleased we got a draw, it was more than I expected and it does say something about the state of things that we don't expect to get anything in these games right now.
But most people's attitude, on here at least, seems to be that it was a good result and performance and we should be expecting that all the time, not every so often in one offs.

[Static]

His point was that we shouldn't be celebrating playing for a draw against them as if we were Huddersfield or Burnley. We should be going there to get a result every time instead of bending over to any half decent team.

Realistically that wont happen unless we get a new manager.

I agree with that!

[Xhaka Can’t]

That City win and the manner of the performance was an anomaly, it's very difficult to draw conclusions from anything we do that's out of character because it happens so rarely.

Though in fairness I don't think anyone genuinely believes this Chelsea performance will set a precedent, we've all been around the block one too many times for that. I just don't really like the performance being spoken about as though we've gone above and beyond. For a start we didn't even win. It's small time and reserved for the cannon fodder of the league when they take points off the big teams. Chelsea are certainly not our superiors and we should always look to take them on in this manner.

I'm sure we will see our annual go nuts and hammer a decent team match soon as well. Another seasonal anomaly.

This post nailed it.

I don't think we can be considered alongside the big clubs of the EPL if we're pleasantly surprised we got the basics right, earning a draw and just relieved it wasn't all over within the first half hour.