Match reaction - Man City

[Niall_Quinn]

That is pretty much exactly how I see it.
The problem isn't that Wenger has changed, the problem is he hasn't while all around him has.

Isn't that what Wenger thinks himself? He's right, isn't he? With all his musings on football and how the game has changed, and how the big clubs are dopers and how the players are disloyal and so on? Everyone else is wrong.

But if he hasn't changed, then why is his record signing striker on the bench for the big game? What happened to the attacking philosophy that bagged titles and the plaudits of every football lover?

The evidence screams of him changing in the most horrible and inexplicable manner. Bringing in pixies to do men's work. Tippy tappy instead of the blistering counter attack. Complaining about being roughed up when we used to be the ones doing the roughing up. He's changed in so many ways. And for the worse. And it looks like he did it deliberately.

[Cripps]

Credit? Deserve? What?

Forget that. I'm pretty sure the gist of this is people don't buy into the excuses you are making for the bloke, regardless of when they first twigged he was a loser.

You just happen to be the last person on here that supports the bloke. I know you'll say you don't and you want him gone and all that. Maybe that's even true this season. But still, so many of your postings have that "but" clause that essentially makes an excuse for every outcome. All too predictable outcomes that can be mapped back over at least a decade and can now be projected into the future with depressing accuracy.

The fanbase has been through many stages of denial, acceptance, grief, anger,.. This is the last stage of the process, where every fan finally accepts the inevitable and the fanbase becomes unified in one goal. Not winning titles, obviously, not winning cups, because it makes no difference, not even winning matches, because we can even predict those too. But getting Kroenke, Wenger and the other leeches out of this place.

That's when it's going to change. When the fanbase has a unified and unbreakable front. And for that to happen, the last lame excuses have to be purged. There's not a single legitimate excuse to be made for any of them. Every excuse has been exposed. Every lie revealed by the passage of time.

All that is left is us, and them.

No more excuses now.

6-0 6-0 6-0

Close the thread. It's done.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Credit? Deserve? What?

Forget that. I'm pretty sure the gist of this is people don't buy into the excuses you are making for the bloke, regardless of when they first twigged he was a loser.

You just happen to be the last person on here that supports the bloke. I know you'll say you don't and you want him gone and all that. Maybe that's even true this season. But still, so many of your postings have that "but" clause that essentially makes an excuse for every outcome. All too predictable outcomes that can be mapped back over at least a decade and can now be projected into the future with depressing accuracy.

The fanbase has been through many stages of denial, acceptance, grief, anger,.. This is the last stage of the process, where every fan finally accepts the inevitable and the fanbase becomes unified in one goal. Not winning titles, obviously, not winning cups, because it makes no difference, not even winning matches, because we can even predict those too. But getting Kroenke, Wenger and the other leeches out of this place.

That's when it's going to change. When the fanbase has a unified and unbreakable front. And for that to happen, the last lame excuses have to be purged. There's not a single legitimate excuse to be made for any of them. Every excuse has been exposed. Every lie revealed by the passage of time.

All that is left is us, and them.

No more excuses now.

Not really. At this current time we don’t have a single person who uses this board who thinks the club can progress whilst Wenger is manager. That’s the prevailing view amongst the majority of the fans, arguments about when Wenger became useless are largely redundant we all came to our own conclusions differently and who was right or wrong about how things would pan out apart from winning internet debates is largely immaterial.

Unfortunately I think focusing on Kroenke is totally futile. He’s going nowhere. Him or his idiot son will be at the very least the majority shareholder of this club many, many years from now, KSE almost never sells its assets.
The focus has to be how to work around Kroenke and we all agree that starts with Wenger going.

[Cripps]

We're in an infinitely better position financially and to compete than we would have been if we were still at Highbury. In that sense we've certainly succeeded in our aims with the stadium - you can't call yourself a big club and not have a modern up-to-date big stadium - why do you think the likes of Spurs & Chelsea are desperate to do their own moves right now? Zim was right about shit regarding that.

What's holding us back is the manager and by extension the current board's lack of ruthless ambition. I was one that was initially prepared to give Wenger a chance when the money rolled in but clearly he hasn't been cut out to handle the rigours of winning the league for a while now, especially in the ultra competitive environment we're currently in. If Zim had specifically moaned about that, then he would have been right - but then again, as alluded to above, it's hardly a bold prediction.

Yep he pretty much did. So my original point stands :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

Not really. It’s the difference between a club threatening to be the dominant force in English football and being bang average which is what we are currently.

Bang Average is totally unacceptable but it’s not cliff edge.

How much of a gap do you want before it becomes a cliff? Look at the direction we're heading in comparison to our supposed rivals. And some of those rivals aren't very good.

[Marc Overmars]

Isn't that what Wenger thinks himself? He's right, isn't he? With all his musings on football and how the game has changed, and how the big clubs are dopers and how the players are disloyal and so on? Everyone else is wrong.

But if he hasn't changed, then why is his record signing striker on the bench for the big game? What happened to the attacking philosophy that bagged titles and the plaudits of every football lover?

The evidence screams of him changing in the most horrible and inexplicable manner. Bringing in pixies to do men's work. Tippy tappy instead of the blistering counter attack. Complaining about being roughed up when we used to be the ones doing the roughing up. He's changed in so many ways. And for the worse. And it looks like he did it deliberately.

Unfortunately all the madness over the past 10 years is now part of his legacy too. Infact his tenure is now probably laced with more seasons of frustration and disharmony than satisfaction.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How much of a gap do you want before it becomes a cliff? Look at the direction we're heading in comparison to our supposed rivals. And some of those rivals aren't very good.

I don’t want any gap. But the club is stagnated in mediocrity. We are in danger of causing our fan base to commit suicide out of sheer boredom. But going off a cliff is Leeds United stuff.

We are in danger of being Bang Average and being no more than a top six club for the foreseeable future and that’s incredibly depressing and needs rectifying. But it’s very easily explained by retaining the services of a manager who used to be cutting edge but is now as sharp as a blancmange

Again the only thing the fan base needs to be united behind is Wenger out, everything else is largely trying to rehash old debates

[Cripps]

Bang Average is totally unacceptable but it’s not cliff edge.

It'll get there :coffee:

As usual most will realise when it's too late :coffee:

Then when it does they'll be showing their frustration but we'll tell you we told you so :coffee:

Then they'll say it was a lucky guess to save face:coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t want any gap. But the club is stagnated in mediocrity. We are in danger of causing our fan base to commit suicide out of sheer boredom. But going off a cliff is Leeds United stuff.

We are in danger of being Bang Average and being no more than a top six club for the foreseeable future and that’s incredibly depressing and needs rectifying. But it’s very easily explained by retaining the services of a manager who used to be cutting edge but is now as sharp as as blacmange

We used to be a top 2 club. We heard all the assurances about being a top 4 club. Now we are to be a top 6 club? And the same people will remain at the helm? Let's see what happens in the summer when our marquee players walk out in a statement that confirms to the whole world we are no longer a top club. If immediate action is taken and the necessary funds are put in place to allow a sane individual to resuscitate the squad, I'll be a little more convinced that the trend can be halted.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It'll get there :coffee:

As usual most will realise when it's too late :coffee:

Then when it does they'll be showing their frustration but we'll tell you we told you so :coffee:

Then they'll say it was a lucky guess to save face:coffee:

If it gets to Leeds United standard, it will take a very long time to get there.

The reason i think it’s unlikely is that we have an owner who doesn’t give a shit about us showing ambition. But for us to be a viable asset. A Leeds United situation just isn’t conducive to that.

If for instance we were in the same boat as Everton now, Kroenke would probably sack Wenger himself to protect his investment

[Niall_Quinn]

Unfortunately all the madness over the past 10 years is now part of his legacy too. Infact his tenure is now probably laced with more seasons of frustration and disharmony than satisfaction.

I don't know how he's gotten away with benching Lacazette. Inexplicable. Bizarre. Incompetent. Showing all the hallmarks of a man who has totally lost the plot. He can't even make a basic team selection any more. He's a dead weight the team have to pull behind them in every match. He's doing tangible harm to the club and its reputation. Fucking hell, what does it take to get the boot around here? I can't decide if it's criminal or comical. Maybe both.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Yep he pretty much did. So my original point stands :coffee:

The guy bitches about every single thing about the club. Heck he was bitching during the Invincibles about Gilberto ........ sorry if I refuse to give him any accolades for being ultimately right about Wenger. :rolleyes:

[Cripps]

If it gets to Leeds United standard, it will take a very long time to get there.

The reason i think it’s unlikely is that we have an owner who doesn’t give a shit about us showing ambition. But for us to be a viable asset. A Leeds United situation just isn’t conducive to that.

If for instance we were in the same boat as Everton now, Kroenke would probably sack Wenger himself to protect his investment

I think it'll get similar to the Hicks and Gillete situation at Liverpool, not in terms of administration as we're a cash cow, but in terms of mess, conflict and disillusionment. Our soul is being ripped before our eyes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My feeling is this

We are currently the 6th best club in the country. And that’s totally unacceptable for a club that’s amongst the richest in the world.

The issue over Sanchez and Ozil is irrelevant. With those players and how they are playing with them we are no better than 6th, and when we lose them we will be no worse than 6th. The issue is the money wasted by keeping them for the last year of their contracts which has been a pointless exercise.

I think we are in a tier where we’d have to go some way to be lower than 6th. But we are rock bottom of our tier, having Wenger is like trying to catch up with the other five in a swimming contest with a brick tied to our feet. We will sink to the bottom but our rock bottom is 6th.

And the problem is short of deliberate sabotage it’s pretty much impossible for us to finish lower than that. And that’s why Kroenke won’t get rid, too lazy and the upheaval of change is not what he wants to involve himself in.

Therefore appealing to a powerless board and a doesn’t give a shit owner is futile, the target has to be Wenger. I hated the idea of hounding him out but his dick move in getting a new contract proves he doesn’t deserve any better.

[Letters]

Isn't that what Wenger thinks himself? He's right, isn't he? With all his musings on football and how the game has changed, and how the big clubs are dopers and how the players are disloyal and so on? Everyone else is wrong.
And to an extent, I sympathise with him. The TV money, the saturation coverage, the billionaires, the hyper-inflation of player salaries and transfer fees.
If he thinks these are all wrong in the game then I agree with him. I think you do too, don't you? Most people are jaded by the way the game has gone.
BUT...that's how football is these days and if he's unwilling or unable to adapt to that and compete then we need to find someone who is.


But if he hasn't changed, then why is his record signing striker on the bench for the big game? What happened to the attacking philosophy that bagged titles and the plaudits of every football lover?
The evidence screams of him changing in the most horrible and inexplicable manner. Bringing in pixies to do men's work. Tippy tappy instead of the blistering counter attack. Complaining about being roughed up when we used to be the ones doing the roughing up. He's changed in so many ways. And for the worse. And it looks like he did it deliberately.

Hmm. Agree about that, he does seem to have changed in those ways, I'm sure he has his reasons although some of them are inexplicable and the Lacazette thing does rather lend itself to the "he's lost it" school of thought.
So...it seems he's changed in ways he shouldn't have and not changed in ways he should :(

[Power n Glory]

The guy bitches about every single thing about the club. Heck he was bitching during the Invincibles about Gilberto ........ sorry if I refuse to give him any accolades for being ultimately right about Wenger. :rolleyes:

Zim can be overly negative but I agreed with him on Gilberto. It wasn’t 100% Gilberto’s fault but the problems we’re seeing with our midfield today also lead back to that era. Playing Cesc and Gilberto in a 4-4-2 against teams that had 3 man midfields or even 5 was suicidal.

Wenger has always had a problem adjusting and figuring out a problem. It took way too long for him to figure out that if he wants to play Cesc and Gilberto together, he has to add another midfielder into the mix. Gilberto couldn’t carry the ball forward on his own and would be left isolated if Cesc went too far forward, but if Cesc was too far away from the final third, we create less chances…..

Wenger has the same problem on his hands right now. But even after spending money on numerous types of midfielders and changing formation, he’s still clueless. There came a point in GW where we started looking at Wenger more and not just blaming the players.

[Letters]

My feeling is this

We are currently the 6th best club in the country. And that’s totally unacceptable for a club that’s amongst the richest in the world.

The issue over Sanchez and Ozil is irrelevant. With those players and how they are playing with them we are no better than 6th, and when we lose them we will be no worse than 6th. The issue is the money wasted by keeping them for the last year of their contracts which has been a pointless exercise.

I think we are in a tier where we’d have to go some way to be lower than 6th. But we are rock bottom of our tier, having Wenger is like trying to catch up with the other five in a swimming contest with a brick tied to our feet. We will sink to the bottom but our rock bottom is 6th.

And the problem is short of deliberate sabotage it’s pretty much impossible for us to finish lower than that. And that’s why Kroenke won’t get rid, too lazy and the upheaval of change is not what he wants to involve himself in.

Therefore appealing to a powerless board and a doesn’t give a shit owner is futile, the target has to be Wenger. I hated the idea of hounding him out but his dick move in getting a new contract proves he doesn’t deserve any better.

Pretty much agree with that although I wouldn't say we're rock bottom of the 6, with some of them I'd say it's pretty close and over a season there won't be much in it. We might finish above Liverpool, we might finish below but I don't think there will be a huge gap at the end of the season. I don't think we'll sink much lower, with our resources it's quite difficult to, for all our fumbling last year we were still only a couple of points off the top 4.

[Cripps]

My feeling is this

We are currently the 6th best club in the country. And that’s totally unacceptable for a club that’s amongst the richest in the world.

The issue over Sanchez and Ozil is irrelevant. With those players and how they are playing with them we are no better than 6th, and when we lose them we will be no worse than 6th. The issue is the money wasted by keeping them for the last year of their contracts which has been a pointless exercise.

I think we are in a tier where we’d have to go some way to be lower than 6th. But we are rock bottom of our tier, having Wenger is like trying to catch up with the other five in a swimming contest with a brick tied to our feet. We will sink to the bottom but our rock bottom is 6th.

And the problem is short of deliberate sabotage it’s pretty much impossible for us to finish lower than that. And that’s why Kroenke won’t get rid, too lazy and the upheaval of change is not what he wants to involve himself in.

Therefore appealing to a powerless board and a doesn’t give a shit owner is futile, the target has to be Wenger. I hated the idea of hounding him out but his dick move in getting a new contract proves he doesn’t deserve any better.

Think the issue is there's been a gradual decline and it doesn't look like stopping. We can say what we want about Sanchez but he's a world class player that adds drive and stature to the team. Will we spend to sign an adequate replacement or will he promote a youngster? The dressing room morale will drop when he leaves and these bunch of weak minded fools hardly need an excuse to drop their form.

I don't think it's inconceivable for us to finish below 6th, all it takes is for example, the Everton owner to appoint a decent manager, provide more funds and them to start playing, and that'll be another team to look out for. Or a team to do a Leicester and once again that's another team in the mix.

Just on my earlier point regarding the Hicks & Gillete situation, I think that could be avoided with a new manager. Someone to bring success on the pitch and bring a bit of pride back to the Arsenal. I do see Wenger as the primary problem currently, he picks the team, he trains them, he sets the tactics.

But the wider, bigger picture is Kroenke's track record with his other franchises. They have all dropped off and become mediocre, just drifting along while he raking in the money. Luckily there's no sign of that here...

[Cripps]

Pretty much agree with that although I wouldn't say we're rock bottom of the 6, with some of them I'd say it's pretty close and over a season there won't be much in it. We might finish above Liverpool, we might finish below but I don't think there will be a huge gap at the end of the season. I don't think we'll sink much lower, with our resources it's quite difficult to, for all our fumbling last year we were still only a couple of points off the top 4.

You kept saying we wouldn't finish below spurs though and look what happened. I specifically remember a number of times you said 'everyone keeps saying we'll finish below them, but it hasn't happened yet'. Well in the end it did :rolleyes:

[Özim]

Do you know, I don't buy the Wenger was once great and isn't anymore, that's not what's happened at all. Once upon a time he was hungry, inherited a team with a very disciplined mindset and was able to add attacking ingredients to it and cherry pick some of the best talents from a country he knew inside out for next to nothing.

Then the problems started. Whilst the mindeset was inherited by some of the players (hence the invincibles) he proceeded to dismantle all the important elements, our experienced top quality players were sold off for next to nothing very quickly, importantly all the leaders of the team, the youngsters had noone to learn from and pick up those winning habits from. He also decided to change the style of football to some mini Barcelona style and became obssessed with it, he decided to dispense of all the physical aspects of our game, thought he could build some all conquering team with kids he'd gone all round the world recruiting (whilst spending huge amounts) and then decided to get rid of all the aspects that made him successful in the first place.

Now it can't allbe reversed but do you know what, he could have analysed the situation (doesn't take a rocket scientist) and decided it's not working, lets go back and look at my winning sides and see what we can tweak. But no he's refused to change anything (that's not an inability to btw, that's just sheer pig-headedness and a need to prove everyone else wrong, even when the answer is staring him in the face) and has continued to make very odd decisions, whilst accepting money is more important than success and thrashings are part of the course.

Some people (Letters) make out like he's been left behind and just doesn't have the tools, it doesn't take tools it takes common sense, he hasn't been left behind he's refused to change and that is nonsensical, much of what is happening could be avoided and if a normal guy with common sense who was willing to make changes was in charge it probably would, sadly he's not like that at all, he prefers to be profitable and to try and prove people right, even if he never does, in his head he thinks he is.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Think the issue is there's been a gradual decline and it doesn't look like stopping. We can say what we want about Sanchez but he's a world class player that adds drive and stature to the team. Will we spend to sign an adequate replacement or will he promote a youngster? The dressing room morale will drop when he leaves and these bunch of weak minded fools hardly need an excuse to drop their form.

I don't think it's inconceivable for us to finish below 6th, all it takes is for example, the Everton owner to appoint a decent manager, provide more funds and them to start playing, and that'll be another team to look out for. Or a team to do a Leicester and once again that's another team in the mix.

Just on my earlier point regarding the Hicks & Gillete situation, I think that could be avoided with a new manager. Someone to bring success on the pitch and bring a bit of pride back to the Arsenal. I do see Wenger as the primary problem currently, he picks the team, he trains them, he sets the tactics.

But the wider, bigger picture is Kroenke's track record with his other franchises. They have all dropped off and become mediocre, just drifting along while he raking in the money. Luckily there's no sign of that here...

They aren’t competitive no but there’s no relegation in American sports

So clubs like that will know come what may they will still get the revenue from playing other bigger franchises

Relegation is not a factor Kroenke has ever had to consider. End of the day no competitive is not a red line for him, but anything that impacts upon what the club’s value is.

And it’s much easier to adversely effect that value when there’s actually consequences for being too shit

But it doesn’t matter anyway being 6th is not good enough for the fans even if it is for Kroenke. Someone like that is untouchable, he’s unaffected by the criticism because he’s maybe here two weeks every year.

Wenger is the target

[Letters]

You kept saying we wouldn't finish below spurs though and look what happened. I specifically remember a number of times you said 'everyone keeps saying we'll finish below them, but it hasn't happened yet'. Well in the end it did :rolleyes:

Yes. After 10 years of people saying it, it finally happened. In a game where fortunes change and things fluctuate if you keep saying the same thing then eventually the chances are you will be correct.
But the same people were saying we would end up in mid-table years ago and that hasn't happened yet so don't pat yourself or them on the back too hard.
The same people said we were in terminal decline, I see it more of a stagnation. The last four seasons we have finished in 4th then 3rd then 2nd then 5th. I wouldn't say there is a clear trend there.
Will we end up in mid-table? It does seem we have become more of a "top 6" club than a "top 4" one. I doubt we will sink much lower for the reasons HCZ has outlined but we will see.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Do you know, I don't buy the Wenger was once great and isn't anymore, that's not what's happened at all. Once upon a time he was hungry, inherited a team with a very disciplined mindset and was able to add attacking ingredients to it and cherry pick some of the best talents from a country he knew inside out for next to nothing.

Then the problems started. Whilst the mindeset was inherited by some of the players (hence the invincibles) he proceeded to dismantle all the important elements, our experienced top quality players were sold off for next to nothing very quickly, importantly all the leaders of the team, the youngsters had noone to learn from and pick up those winning habits from. He also decided to change the style of football to some mini Barcelona style and became obssessed with it, he decided to dispense of all the physical aspects of our game, thought he could build some all conquering team with kids he'd gone all round the world recruiting (whilst spending huge amounts) and then decided to get rid of all the aspects that made him successful in the first place.

Now it can't allbe reversed but do you know what, he could have analysed the situation (doesn't take a rocket scientist) and decided it's not working, lets go back and look at my winning sides and see what we can tweak. But no he's refused to change anything (that's not an inability to btw, that's just sheer pig-headedness and a need to prove everyone else wrong, even when the answer is staring him in the face) and has continued to make very odd decisions, whilst accepting money is more important than success and thrashings are part of the course.

Some people (Letters) make out like he's been left behind and just doesn't have the tools, it doesn't take tools it takes common sense, he hasn't been left behind he's refused to change and that is nonsensical, much of what is happening could be avoided and if a normal guy with common sense who was willing to make changes was in charge it probably would, sadly he's not like that at all, he prefers to be profitable and to try and prove people right, even if he never does, in his head he thinks he is.


Like with everything else in life bit more complicated than that

Did Wenger have the benefit of being able to utilise the leadership of players like Adams and how that trickled down to the players he brought in? For sure.

But if you read Adams book, it was Wenger and his new methods that kept him in the game that much longer. Muscle exercises that could combat fatigue allow more durability and even added to defensive displays (being able to jump higher)

What’s changed in football terms, is that current managers are largely just politicians. They work on coaching methods, number crunching, tactical game plans etc that are decided on collectively by large and structured coaching teams. But they are the figurehead of those decisions, they are the voice at press conferences and the figure on the bench.
The same way politicians are mouthpieces for decisions worked out between them and civil servants and special advisors

Wenger is the one who thinks he can do it all on his own

[Cripps]

Do you know, I don't buy the Wenger was once great and isn't anymore, that's not what's happened at all. Once upon a time he was hungry, inherited a team with a very disciplined mindset and was able to add attacking ingredients to it and cherry pick some of the best talents from a country he knew inside out for next to nothing.

Then the problems started. Whilst the mindeset was inherited by some of the players (hence the invincibles) he proceeded to dismantle all the important elements, our experienced top quality players were sold off for next to nothing very quickly, importantly all the leaders of the team, the youngsters had noone to learn from and pick up those winning habits from. He also decided to change the style of football to some mini Barcelona style and became obssessed with it, he decided to dispense of all the physical aspects of our game, thought he could build some all conquering team with kids he'd gone all round the world recruiting (whilst spending huge amounts) and then decided to get rid of all the aspects that made him successful in the first place.

Now it can't allbe reversed but do you know what, he could have analysed the situation (doesn't take a rocket scientist) and decided it's not working, lets go back and look at my winning sides and see what we can tweak. But no he's refused to change anything (that's not an inability to btw, that's just sheer pig-headedness and a need to prove everyone else wrong, even when the answer is staring him in the face) and has continued to make very odd decisions, whilst accepting money is more important than success and thrashings are part of the course.

Some people (Letters) make out like he's been left behind and just doesn't have the tools, it doesn't take tools it takes common sense, he hasn't been left behind he's refused to change and that is nonsensical, much of what is happening could be avoided and if a normal guy with common sense who was willing to make changes was in charge it probably would, sadly he's not like that at all, he prefers to be profitable and to try and prove people right, even if he never does, in his head he thinks he is.

Zim :bow:

Fought and battled over the years in the gladitorial arena that is GW :bow: he managed to stand tall and strong and came out the ultimate winner :bow:

"What we do in life echoes in eternity"

MaxZIMus :bow:

[Letters]

Think the issue is there's been a gradual decline and it doesn't look like stopping.

I'm not sure that's true. Our points total since 2007/8 has been:
72,75,68,70,73,79,75,71,75

There's no clear trend there. It's been stagnation, not decline.


But the wider, bigger picture is Kroenke's track record with his other franchises. They have all dropped off and become mediocre, just drifting along while he raking in the money. Luckily there's no sign of that here...

That is a bigger concern, admittedly. And this is why "Wenger Out" is not a silver bullet. Because if Kronke replaces him with someone who will just keep us bumbling along then that won't necessarily improve the situation.
Kronke Out AND Wenger Out (And Letters Out, obvs)

[Cripps]

I'm not sure that's true. Our points total since 2007/8 has been:
72,75,68,70,73,79,75,71,75

There's no clear trend there. It's been stagnation, not decline.



That is a bigger concern, admittedly. And this is why "Wenger Out" is not a silver bullet. Because if Kronke replaces him with someone who will just keep us bumbling along then that won't necessarily improve the situation.
Kronke Out AND Wenger Out (And Letters Out, obvs)

Using stats to try and distort the picture:coffee:

Reality is very different :coffee:

[Cripps]

Yes. After 10 years of people saying it, it finally happened. In a game where fortunes change and things fluctuate if you keep saying the same thing then eventually the chances are you will be correct.
But the same people were saying we would end up in mid-table years ago and that hasn't happened yet so don't pat yourself or them on the back too hard.
The same people said we were in terminal decline, I see it more of a stagnation. The last four seasons we have finished in 4th then 3rd then 2nd then 5th. I wouldn't say there is a clear trend there.
Will we end up in mid-table? It does seem we have become more of a "top 6" club than a "top 4" one. I doubt we will sink much lower for the reasons HCZ has outlined but we will see.

Give wenger another 3-4 contracts and I'm sure he'll fulfil that too:coffee:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

For the third time I’m saying this, with the exception of deciding who wins the internet these discussions as fascinating as they are (and I actually don’t mean that sarcastically oddly enough) are pointless.

At the end of the day changing our current trajectory isn’t dependent on who is right or wrong about how fucking deep we sink but the agreement that we don’t want to sink at all

Changing things isn’t dependent on consensus of when Wenger became a cunt, it’s just a consensus that he has to go.

[Letters]

Reality is very different :coffee:
Is it? Please elaborate. How do those statistics distort the true picture?

[Cripps]

Is it? Please elaborate. How do those statistics distort the true picture?

You're saying there's been no gradual decline. Only an absolute weapon would think that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Where’s the evidence of a gradual decline?

I think we have declined in the past year or so. The football on display in the last season or so has been consistently worse than anything in the ten years preceding that.

The legitimate issue between 2005 and 2016, is the same old. The same old defeats, the same old frailties, the same old failure to learn from mistakes.

And what is now decline is partly due to a man who will have partly degraded in his critical faculties and partly the rise of Spurs from the time they appointed Pochettino (not a single win against Pochetinnos Spurs in the league)

4th, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd

That on its own is the very model of stagnation and that’s without taking the points

If Wenger stays beyond 2019 (please no) my prediction will be instead of pivoting between 3rd and 4th, we will be pivoting between 5th and 6th.

[Letters]

You're saying there's been no gradual decline. Only an absolute weapon would think that.
Since when? As always things are not as simple as you seem to think.
Two seasons after The Invincibles we were scrabbling around trying to hang on to the top 4, two years in a row we snuck in on the last day.
The season after that we were title contenders before falling apart at the end.
Since then we've been bimbling around not really going anywhere. The football is clearly not as good to watch, in terns of results there's not been much in it. We've won a few FA Cups which has been nice but the league form has been patchy and we haven't seriously challenged for the title. There hasn't been a clear, steady decline. Apart from in entertainment value I suppose.

[Niall_Quinn]

If you know something is rotting and you just let it rot, eventually it will disintegrate. That's what's happening at this club. The facade is still good, the work of a century made it strong and built it up. What we are suffering is a yank cunt who is milking that work for all it's worth and when the signs of blight appear significant on that facade he'll sell and let somebody else do the repair work. He'll take his billion quid profit and leave a hollow, dilapidated shell. And he'll keep his willing manager in place to polish the facade and talk about culture and tradition and values as all of that culture, the tradition and every last value is consumed.

The real values of this club don't exist in some shitty boardroom stuffed with silver spoons. They exist in the history that has unfolded on the pitch over all those years. Ups and downs but always a desire to achieve where it matters most in this sport, on the pitch. This is the first time we've seen the club prioritise interests off the pitch. This is the first time we've abandoned those values Wenger is so keen to convince us are foremost, but look at the evidence. Who is getting rich and who is getting fucked over? It's quite easy to see the reality once Kroenke's and Ivan's and Wenger's chat has been endured and rightly dismissed as bullshit.

The very fact Wenger is still here tells us all we need to know about the values and the culture of this lot. They stink, like the rot they have cultivated.

If people think Kroenke will put the brakes on this decline to preserve his investment they are kidding themselves. He won't need to do that, he hasn't needed to do that. The money pouring into the game, the hysterical hype, the frenzied US style merchandising, the first batch of new fans who have never seen the game the way it ought to be and now only see the shit it has become, they don't know any better and will accept it. So what if the old fans fuck off? Plenty ready to replace them. Kroenke can let this club sink a lot lower yet and still secure his pirate treasure.

Do you see that little stain on the gleaming stadium? That's Alexis walking out the door, so he can restart his career at a club that actually places some value beyond the money in the football they play and the reason they play it. That other little crack, that's Ozil walking away. Love him or loathe him, it hasn't taken our fake resurgence long to disappear. But it bought the bastards time to squeeze another round of TV deals and sponsorship and a fresh hike in the share price. The con job is concluded.

Lacazette's glance to the heavens the last time he was subbed. Another pock mark that will rot away the exterior and cause a lump of tradition to crash on the ground.

The new Mr Arsenal, Jack Wilshere, the epitome of Project Youth. Brought in with a bucket to bail as fast as he can. Mission impossible. The guy who was going to be England captain. Sloshing around with Theo Walcott. That's what's in store at this theatre of culture and values and tradition.

In a circus where there seems no limit to the amount of money being fire-hosed into the sky, if we think we are assured top 6 just because we have a culture and a history and a tradition, as Wenger thinks, then at least we'll finally get a surprise in the midst of this boring nothingness. Not a nice surprise though.

We've already seen what happens when this manager gets a few quid. So don't hold out any hope on that front. All that money came from the fans and the sponsors and the poor sods stuck in front of TV screens hoping to see a proper match. None of it came from the pockets of our billionaire owners. So don't look for hope there either.

Football is on rails right now and Stan Kroenke has positioned himself perfectly to ride all the way to fat profits without lifting a finger, or quite literally even saying a word. He's watched the decline. He's watched the manager fart about the place. And he's done nothing about it because it's just not something he gives a shit about. His focus is on the money coming into the game and the money that is yet to come. Don't forget that Euro super league hovering just over the horizon. That's his holy grail and the "big clubs" have their little arrangements stitched tight so it won't really matter if Arsenal are 10th or 12th or 16th once we are parachuted onto that gravy express.

There's no reason whatsoever for Kroenke to be concerned and at the first sign of trouble he can bank half a billion quid, minimum. Tell me again how he's going to ride to the rescue should this decline refuse to bottom out.

Culture, value, traditions my Arse. Profit, their Arse. We're a thing of the past. They don't need us any more and we're as delusional as Wenger if we think they do. Only reason we'd ever matter again is if we found a unified way to shove our traditional boot right up their cultured arse holes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well as highly articulate as that outburst was as always

But this all boils down still to I want to win the Internet.

At the end of the day, there are things people on this board people aren’t going to agree on and we can go round and round ad Infinitum.

If you are insisting that something needs to be done, the only important thing is getting agreement on what’s to be done. And for that you do have that incredibly broad consensus....Wenger has to go.

[Cripps]

Since when? As always things are not as simple as you seem to think.
Two seasons after The Invincibles we were scrabbling around trying to hang on to the top 4, two years in a row we snuck in on the last day.
The season after that we were title contenders before falling apart at the end.
Since then we've been bimbling around not really going anywhere. The football is clearly not as good to watch, in terns of results there's not been much in it. We've won a few FA Cups which has been nice but the league form has been patchy and we haven't seriously challenged for the title. There hasn't been a clear, steady decline. Apart from in entertainment value I suppose.

Ladies and gentlemen this is what we have to deal with. Arsenal football club has not been in gradual decline.

:haha: :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Is it? Please elaborate. How do those statistics distort the true picture?

From a top 2 title contender, to a top 4 trophy hunter, to a top 6 club with culture when all around is vulgar - what's that going to be, Moral Champions? If you can't see a decline then you are refusing to look. Maybe you are saying the decline hasn't happened fast enough to be classed as a decline? Okay then, it's a slow decline. Man Utd have won a title, lost a legend, suffered farce and regained the top 4 while we have been trudging towards our top 6 status.

Some say our titles winning teams played the best football ever seen, comparable with the great Brazilian sides of the past. That's where we were. Now we're assured a top 6 spot? Sounds a bit like a decline to me.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well as highly articulate as that outburst was as always

But this all boils down still to I want to win the Internet.

At the end of the day, there are things people on this board people aren’t going to agree on and we can go round and round ad Infinitum.

If you are insisting that something needs to be done, the only important thing is getting agreement on what’s to be done. And for that you do have that incredibly broad consensus....Wenger has to go.

Does it?

I'm pretty sure my message today has been let's stop making fucking excuses, let's unify the fan base and let's kick these cunts out of our club. Mainly because that's the ONLY option left if anyone is even interested in seeing this club go back to what it is supposed to be doing. Not winning titles because we are entitled, but trying to win titles because that's the purpose of the game.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Does it?

I'm pretty sure my message today has been let's stop making fucking excuses, let's unify the fan base and let's kick these cunts out of our club. Mainly because that's the ONLY option left if anyone is even interested in seeing this club go back to what it is supposed to be doing. Not winning titles because we are entitled, but trying to win titles because that's the purpose of the game.

No what you are doing is replaying history

If everyone accepts Wenger has to go, I’m not sure what else you are looking for

The only sensible area of meaningful discussion then becomes how do we achieve this?

[Niall_Quinn]

No what you are doing is replaying history

If everyone accepts Wenger has to go, I’m not sure what else you are looking for

Eh?

I'm doing the precise opposite, predicting the future. That's what we were arguing about, right? Who was best at it? Well at least we can all predict the future this time around without argument, or so you would think.

There's no Wenger out btw. Not as things stand. Not unless the still significant body of arseholes who sing his name whenever he is challenged get their shit in gear. That's what's got to happen if anything is to be changed and if Wenger is to be forced out. For sure, the rest of us have been here a while. How much longer?

[Özim]

Like with everything else in life bit more complicated than that

Did Wenger have the benefit of being able to utilise the leadership of players like Adams and how that trickled down to the players he brought in? For sure.

But if you read Adams book, it was Wenger and his new methods that kept him in the game that much longer. Muscle exercises that could combat fatigue allow more durability and even added to defensive displays (being able to jump higher)

What’s changed in football terms, is that current managers are largely just politicians. They work on coaching methods, number crunching, tactical game plans etc that are decided on collectively by large and structured coaching teams. But they are the figurehead of those decisions, they are the voice at press conferences and the figure on the bench.
The same way politicians are mouthpieces for decisions worked out between them and civil servants and special advisors

Wenger is the one who thinks he can do it all on his own

That's the general scenario though, I know Adams did say he extended his career and I agree his new diets and training methods were great (nowadays they seem to be counteractive though) but I was really making the point that we know he's not an organiser or a motivator, so having that platform to work with helped a lot, he could have easily carried that on, ut he clearly didn't value that side enough and let it fall by the wayside, he often cites leadership not being important.

I know football has changed as well, but if you look at what he does you can see simple options that would surely help, options he point blank refuses to explore, right now he's the architect of his own downfall, he's actually sabotaging the clubs chances of success, it wouldn't be so hard for someone to look at something that doesn't work and try something different, he just point blank won't.

You can't say he's unable to, because quite frankly the guy down the pub could make some suggestions which make sense, he just doesn't want to and the reality is he prioritises profit over what happens on the pitch.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Eh?

I'm doing the precise opposite, predicting the future. That's what we were arguing about, right? Who was best at it? Well at least we can all predict the future this time around without argument, or so you would think.

There's no Wenger out btw. Not as things stand. Not unless the still significant body of arseholes who sing his name whenever he is challenged get their shit in gear. That's what's got to happen if anything is to be changed and if Wenger is to be forced out. For sure, the rest of us have been here a while. How much longer?

Sigh

Your attempts to predict the future are pointless especially given in your last rant you suggested that a decline as sharp as you imagine wouldn’t compel Kroenke to act.

Now I don’t agree with that but it’s irrelevant given that in both our predictions the common denominator is that without Fans doing something Wenger remains, in your scenario possibly fighting relegation, in mine idling between 5th and 6th.

Now if we both agree albeit for different reasons that Kroenke won’t act, that leaves Wenger

I know you boast a lot about how much you drink, but that surely shouldn’t be difficult for a man as intelligent as you to understand.

Focus on what we agree on, we agree that in the immediate future at least Kroenke will sit on his hands

So Wenger as I’ve said now has to be the target. Bring the displeasure shown at away games to the Emirates.

If he complains that it’s us affecting results, hold our resolve and hound him out.

Instead of trying to nail down what you were right or wrong about five years ago and what you might be right or wrong about in the future. How about doing things in the here and now?.

[Özim]

I don't know how he's gotten away with benching Lacazette. Inexplicable. Bizarre. Incompetent. Showing all the hallmarks of a man who has totally lost the plot. He can't even make a basic team selection any more. He's a dead weight the team have to pull behind them in every match. He's doing tangible harm to the club and its reputation. Fucking hell, what does it take to get the boot around here? I can't decide if it's criminal or comical. Maybe both.

Exactly, everyone knows Lacazette should have started, it would be like dropping Ian Wright from the team in the 90s (granted he's not Ian Wright but he's a goalscorer), you generally try and have your most dangerous players on the pitch and Lacazette is precisely that, the fact he didn't pick him isn't down to not being able to.

[Özim]

Zim :bow:

Fought and battled over the years in the gladitorial arena that is GW :bow: he managed to stand tall and strong and came out the ultimate winner :bow:

"What we do in life echoes in eternity"

MaxZIMus :bow:

Thanks :lol:

[Cripps]

From a top 2 title contender, to a top 4 trophy hunter, to a top 6 club with culture when all around is vulgar - what's that going to be, Moral Champions? If you can't see a decline then you are refusing to look. Maybe you are saying the decline hasn't happened fast enough to be classed as a decline? Okay then, it's a slow decline. Man Utd have won a title, lost a legend, suffered farce and regained the top 4 while we have been trudging towards our top 6 status.

Some say our titles winning teams played the best football ever seen, comparable with the great Brazilian sides of the past. That's where we were. Now we're assured a top 6 spot? Sounds a bit like a decline to me.

Why try and reason with people that can't see their arse from their elbow? :doh:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Why try and reason with people that can't see their arse from their elbow? :doh:

Precisely

And this is why on the whole I no more try to reason with you than I would my Jack Russell Dog. :haha:

[Özim]

From a top 2 title contender, to a top 4 trophy hunter, to a top 6 club with culture when all around is vulgar - what's that going to be, Moral Champions? If you can't see a decline then you are refusing to look. Maybe you are saying the decline hasn't happened fast enough to be classed as a decline? Okay then, it's a slow decline. Man Utd have won a title, lost a legend, suffered farce and regained the top 4 while we have been trudging towards our top 6 status.

Some say our titles winning teams played the best football ever seen, comparable with the great Brazilian sides of the past. That's where we were. Now we're assured a top 6 spot? Sounds a bit like a decline to me.

Spot on, we are in decline, someone can put all the excuses on the table but we are, some of those years we only ended up higher up due to a collapse from other teams, it wasn't us leading the chasing pack, it was the chasing pack losing motivation after realising the title is gone.

The football has been going backwards for years, the bad results (thrashings) are more regular than ever, a lot of our wins are unconvincing and could easily have ended up as draws and we get hammered by the top sides in Europes elite competition.

The stats about the position we end up in needs context, back in the day when we came 2nd we came 2nd but we're almost always in the title hunt, last time we came 2nd we were never in it and came 2nd because Spurs collapsed after their title chances as good as disappeared.

As someone pointed out, it would be very hard for a club with our level of resources to end up much lower than we are at the moment, 6th or so is pretty low we've definitely gone backwards.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sigh

Your attempts to predict the future are pointless especially given in your last rant you suggested that a decline as sharp as you imagine wouldn’t compel Kroenke to act.

Now I don’t agree with that but it’s irrelevant given that in both our predictions the common denominator is that without Fans doing something Wenger remains, in your scenario possibly fighting relegation, in mine idling between 5th and 6th.

Now if we both agree albeit for different reasons that Kroenke won’t act, that leaves Wenger

I know you boast a lot about how much you drink, but that surely shouldn’t be difficult for a man as intelligent as you to understand.

Focus on what we agree on, we agree that in the immediate future at least Kroenke will sit on his hands

So Wenger as I’ve said now has to be the target. Bring the displeasure shown at away games to the Emirates.

If he complains that it’s us affecting results, hold our resolve and hound him out.

Instead of trying to nail down what you were right or wrong about five years ago and what you might be right or wrong about in the future. How about doing things in the here and now?.

Alright, well played. I thought you were serious.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Spot on, we are in decline, someone can put all the excuses on the table but we are, some of those years we only ended up higher up due to a collapse from other teams, it wasn't us leading the chasing pack, it was the chasing pack losing motivation after realising the title is gone.

The football has been going backwards for years, the bad results (thrashings) are more regular than ever, a lot of our wins are unconvincing and could easily have ended up as draws and we get hammered by the top sides in Europes elite competition.

The stats about the position we end up in needs context, back in the day when we came 2nd we came 2nd but we're almost always in the title hunt, last time we came 2nd we were never in it and came 2nd because Spurs collapsed after their title chances as good as disappeared.

As someone pointed out, it would be very hard for a club with our level of resources to end up much lower than we are at the moment, 6th or so is pretty low we've definitely gone backwards.

Again it’s largely irrelevant but let me break it down again

1996-2005 - never finished lower than third and won three titles
2005-2016 - never finished lower than 4th but won fuck all
2016- for me unlikely to break into top four

My point has never been that we haven’t declined more that it hasn’t been incessant gradual decline

We stayed at a certain level, then dropped down before that level and then stagnated there. As of 2016 we have dropped down a tier for the first time in a decade.

It’s quibbling over terms for sure. And either way you look at it, it doesn’t point to the likelihood of progress without Big change.

And this is what I’ve been saying to NQ, the question is not about what has happened or what may happen but what is happening and what we do about that.

[Cripps]

Precisely

And this is why on the whole I no more try to reason with you than I would my Jack Russell Dog. :haha:

I'm terrified that there's a danger like you working in the police force:lol:

If the fate of the country is in the hands of people like you we're screwed :haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Alright, well played. I thought you were serious.

What’s your counter suggestion other than trying to force a consensus on who was right and when, and who will be right and to what extent
You agree that this needs to be addressed so what’s your suggestion?

[Letters]

From a top 2 title contender, to a top 4 trophy hunter, to a top 6 club with culture when all around is vulgar - what's that going to be, Moral Champions? If you can't see a decline then you are refusing to look. Maybe you are saying the decline hasn't happened fast enough to be classed as a decline? Okay then, it's a slow decline. Man Utd have won a title, lost a legend, suffered farce and regained the top 4 while we have been trudging towards our top 6 status.

Some say our titles winning teams played the best football ever seen, comparable with the great Brazilian sides of the past. That's where we were. Now we're assured a top 6 spot? Sounds a bit like a decline to me.

We dropped from a top 2 side to a top 4 side but that happened years ago. I'm not sure that Wenger or anyone else could have done anything about that, there isn't a distinct top 2 any more.
That wasn't so much about our decline as other teams raising their level. When the billionaire fuelled teams barged in it broke the duopoly with us and Utd there were suddenly more teams able to compete.
We became a top 4 side and have pretty much remained one ever since, there has been no decline, neither has there been any progress. It's been stagnation. Groundhog Day.
Last year we finished 5th by a couple of points, top 4 is going to be tricky this year. Now Spurs and possibly Liverpool have got their acts together it does seem to have become more of a top 6 but, again, that's more about those teams getting better rather than us getting worse.

The main decline has been in the entertainment value. Back in the day we were a joy to watch whatever the result, now it's a bore which is partly why I can't be arsed with it.
In terms of our actual level there really hasn't been that much difference in the last 10 years. If there has been a decline it's been glacial and it's hard to predict whether there will be serious decline or we'll continue to bimble around at about this level. Suspect the latter with our resources.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm terrified that there's a danger like you working in the police force:lol:

If the fate of the country is in the hands of people like you we're screwed :haha:

NO....NO......Bad Dog!

[Letters]

Why try and reason with people that can't see their arse from their elbow? :doh:

My elbow doesn't have eyes tbf so it is a bit tricky.

[Letters]

As someone pointed out, it would be very hard for a club with our level of resources to end up much lower than we are at the moment,
Even with an average squad and an awful manager? :unsure:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Even with an average squad and an awful manager? :unsure:

Well that’s precisely the point I’ve made

Because of the size of the club, Wenger can only drag us down so far. But the guy is an anchor Letters. You know this.....any other consideration is irrelevant.

Whether you think Zim comes to ridiculous conclusions or whether he thinks you’re a Wenger apologist. You both agree the guy has to go.

That’s all that matters, everything else is anodyne

[Letters]

OK. So you have proposed in ground protests. I have proposed a boycott. I think my method would be more effective, yours more realistic.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

OK. So you have proposed in ground protests. I have proposed a boycott. I think my method would be more effective, yours more realistic.

Not really effective. The club knows there are enough plastics and tourists out there to replace most of us

Making the job unbearable for Wenger. Every game making it known in no uncertain terms that he’s got to go. Wenger isn’t extraordinary, no one can tolerate that kind of environment for too long.

If we don’t beat Spurs weekend after next (we won’t) he’s going to get a taste of that at the Emirates

[Letters]

Yes, it's only effective if everyone joins in (or doesn't join in, I suppose). Which won't happen, clearly.
If we lose to Spurs, especially if we are properly thumped, then things will get quite nasty.

[Cripps]

Spot on, we are in decline, someone can put all the excuses on the table but we are, some of those years we only ended up higher up due to a collapse from other teams, it wasn't us leading the chasing pack, it was the chasing pack losing motivation after realising the title is gone.

The football has been going backwards for years, the bad results (thrashings) are more regular than ever, a lot of our wins are unconvincing and could easily have ended up as draws and we get hammered by the top sides in Europes elite competition.

The stats about the position we end up in needs context, back in the day when we came 2nd we came 2nd but we're almost always in the title hunt, last time we came 2nd we were never in it and came 2nd because Spurs collapsed after their title chances as good as disappeared.

As someone pointed out, it would be very hard for a club with our level of resources to end up much lower than we are at the moment, 6th or so is pretty low we've definitely gone backwards.

Spot on as usual

But unfortunately he won't be going anywhere when there's fans like Herbert and Letters that want Wenger to stay :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Spot on as usual

But unfortunately he won't be going anywhere when there's fans like Herbert and Letters that want Wenger to stay :(

Get into your basket!

Going to have to talk to the vets about getting you neutered. Spraying piss everywhere

[Letters]

I was going to chide you for "feeding the troll" but "spraying piss everywhere" made me laugh. :lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yes, it's only effective if everyone joins in (or doesn't join in, I suppose). Which won't happen, clearly.
If we lose to Spurs, especially if we are properly thumped, then things will get quite nasty.

It seems ridiculous to want the guy out but to be unprepared to do what it takes to achieve it

And yes Zim I know you’ve made the point about that in the past. I didn’t agree then, I do now.

[Cripps]

It seems ridiculous to want the guy out but to be unprepared to do what it takes to achieve it

And yes Zim I know you’ve made the point about that in the past. I didn’t agree then, I do now.

GW WOB 46,579 - 0 GW Wenger In Brigade

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

GW WOB 46,579 - 0 GW Wenger In Brigade

You’re very chipper for a dog that’s going to get it’s nuts lopped off

I prefer to look at it as a broken clock is right twice a day

I don’t like telling fans who go to games when most of us don’t how they should behave. But the summer left things clear, that being reasonable wasn’t going to work.

This was the Summer where the fan base in the vast majority Accepted the game was up. And the coward went crawling to Kroenke

[Cripps]

You’re very chipper for a dog that’s going to get it’s nuts lopped off

Is this another one of your weird fantasies that led to you being locked up in a police cell? :lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Is this another one of your weird fantasies that led to you being locked up in a police cell? :lol:

Bold talk considering what’s on your hard drive

Seriously considering gouging my own eyes out after seeing it.....you depraved monster

[Niall_Quinn]

What’s your counter suggestion other than trying to force a consensus on who was right and when, and who will be right and to what extent
You agree that this needs to be addressed so what’s your suggestion?

My suggestion is the fans who continue to support Wenger, and they clearly exist even if you claim they don't, get on board so there can be a united front against this owner and this manager.

[Letters]

I think they exist in the ground in quite large numbers, which is part of the problem.

[GP]

I think they exist in the ground in quite large numbers, which is part of the problem.

That's because they just go to watch football. They aren't all glory hunters like everyone on here.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think they exist in the ground in quite large numbers, which is part of the problem.

Of course they do. It was their voices that shouted down the protests in the ground last season. And their fists that landed on fans who wanted to hold up a banner politely (far too politely) asking Wenger to leave. We're a divided fanbase, that's the reality. And what could be better for Kroenke and his gang?

There's no mileage in doing anything other than staying away and refusing to part with cash, not until the seemingly hopelessly Wengerised lot snap out of it. Which they probably won't because half of them aren't even fans, they are football tourist. I'd bet they'd just as easily pay to get in and watch the spuds if the post game wine selection was better there. They can't even remember the football, the current drab shit is all they have ever seen and the rest is like us watching Bobby Charlton on a black and white reel. All they know is the gleaming stadium and the comfy seats and the snazzy shop and all the other commercial aspects of the club and the look around in wonder and whisper wow, look at what Wenger built with his own hands. As Wenger's latest team stinks the place out.

We're a football club that has found a way to prosper without the football bit.

[Cripps]

Bold talk considering what’s on your hard drive

Seriously considering gouging my own eyes out after seeing it.....you depraved monster

Thought we all had the pictures of Letters with a pink thong on. Is it just me? :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

That's because they just go to watch football. They aren't all glory hunters like everyone on here.

Then why don't they shut their expensive pie holes when the fans who are still interested in actual football have something to say? They paid to get in too. What's it to them if fans with a bit of self respect want something better for the club? Why don't they just eat their prawn sandwiches and mind their own business?

[Letters]

Thought we all had the pictures of Letters with a pink thong on. Is it just me? :unsure:

I signed HCZ's.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My suggestion is the fans who continue to support Wenger, and they clearly exist even if you claim they don't, get on board so there can be a united front against this owner and this manager.

They don’t on this board

And if they think Wenger is good enough to be manager after all this time, there’s nothing you or I can say to compel them otherwise

The vast majority of fans want Wenger gone. The rest are best ignored

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Thought we all had the pictures of Letters with a pink thong on. Is it just me? :unsure:

YES! :sick:

[Letters]

Oh stop. It was clearly in the Ts & Cs when you signed up here :sulk:

[Niall_Quinn]

They don’t on this board

And if they think Wenger is good enough to be manager after all this time, there’s nothing you or I can say to compel them otherwise

There are about 8 people on this board. In some ways the problem goes beyond GW.

And if there's nothing that can be done about a bunch of prawn munchers then Wenger won't be leaving. He relies on those twats to give him some degree of credibility. The blind leading the blind.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There are about 8 people on this board. In some ways the problem goes beyond GW.

And if there's nothing that can be done about a bunch of prawn munchers then Wenger won't be leaving. He relies on those twats to give him some degree of credibility. The blind leading the blind.

Well you are using this board to get your message across so if you’re talking to Wenger supporters you’re talking to no one

And given your uncompromising stance on social media (that’s not a criticism, plenty of my mates feel exactly the same as you) you will continue to be talking to no one

And of the people that go to matches, the majority of them want Wenger gone. So it’s really more a case of getting them united behind a single message, and ignoring muppets like Moh Haider who still won’t call for Wengers head.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well you are using this board to get your message across so if you’re talking to Wenger supporters you’re talking to no one

And given your uncompromising stance on social media (that’s not a criticism, plenty of my mates feel exactly the same as you) you will continue to be talking to no one

And of the people that go to matches, the majority of them want Wenger gone. So it’s really more a case of getting them united behind a single message, and ignoring muppets like Moh Haider who still won’t call for Wengers head.

This board is inertia manifest. The debates are all done, everyone knows the score, the evidence is in. So now it's just a social venue. Bit like home match days, turning up to waste time.

[Özim]

From what we see (a lot if AFTV) there's still a lot of people who aren't convinced they want Wenger gone, some support him, others make excuses for him, others say it's Kroenke we need out, some even highlight some of the madness in his actions but still refuse to say they want him gone.

IMO perhaps there are some who go to matches who want him gone, but very few really have the appetite to what has been suggested, even those protesting are losing conviction with evrything going on.

Apparently away fans are much more anti-Wenger, whereas at home the anti-Wenger sentiment is muted at best. He goes through bad spells and the discontent grows, but after a few narrow wins against smaller team (and the odd half decent result like the draw at Chelsea) the discontent disappears and people start talking about success and beating the top teams.

The sentiment seems to change from match to match, that's not really condusive to change, the reality is if people won't stop going making the atmoshere toxic every match and making it clear they want him gone and there's no way back might be the only way to force his hand, I don't see it happening though.

[Cripps]

From what we see (a lot if AFTV) there's still a lot of people who aren't convinced they want Wenger gone, some support him, others make excuses for him, others say it's Kroenke we need out, some even highlight some of the madness in his actions but still refuse to say they want him gone.

IMO perhaps there are some who go to matches who want him gone, but very few really have the appetite to what has been suggested, even those protesting are losing conviction with evrything going on.

Apparently away fans are much more anti-Wenger, whereas at home the anti-Wenger sentiment is muted at best. He goes through bad spells and the discontent grows, but after a few narrow wins against smaller team (and the odd half decent result like the draw at Chelsea) the discontent disappears and people start talking about success and beating the top teams.

The sentiment seems to change from match to match, that's not really condusive to change, the reality is if people won't stop going making the atmoshere toxic every match and making it clear they want him gone and there's no way back might be the only way to force his hand, I don't see it happening though.

Spot on

There's still Wenger fans all over the place, people that trudge out the usual excuses like officials are to blame or pop up and provide a positive spin on things or play devils advocate. These people don't want Wenger out no matter what they say, because their first instinct is to provide excuses and try to support Wenger. Whilst we have people like that, who just sit on their arse and let the club drift, nothing will change. Get ready for another contract :(

[Letters]

Our home record is #decent. I guess it's hard for fans to get that worked up when we're winning games. If we lose to Spurs on the back of losing to City things could get...interesting.
But then we'll beat some smaller sides and people will be placated.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

From what we see (a lot if AFTV) there's still a lot of people who aren't convinced they want Wenger gone, some support him, others make excuses for him, others say it's Kroenke we need out, some even highlight some of the madness in his actions but still refuse to say they want him gone.

IMO perhaps there are some who go to matches who want him gone, but very few really have the appetite to what has been suggested, even those protesting are losing conviction with evrything going on.

Apparently away fans are much more anti-Wenger, whereas at home the anti-Wenger sentiment is muted at best. He goes through bad spells and the discontent grows, but after a few narrow wins against smaller team (and the odd half decent result like the draw at Chelsea) the discontent disappears and people start talking about success and beating the top teams.

The sentiment seems to change from match to match, that's not really condusive to change, the reality is if people won't stop going making the atmoshere toxic every match and making it clear they want him gone and there's no way back might be the only way to force his hand, I don't see it happening though.

I think 2017 is the first time a clear majority want him gone

I could be wrong but I think there has been a gradually larger and larger anti Wenger sentiment at away games. The chant of “we want Wenger out” is becoming more and more commonplace.

This will translate itself to home games, especially when we start losing the big games (if we lose to spurs on November 18th it’s going to be ugly, and there will be a bad atmosphere with anything but a win which we know isn’t going to happen)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Spot on

There's still Wenger fans all over the place, people that trudge out the usual excuses like officials are to blame or pop up and provide a positive spin on things or play devils advocate. These people don't want Wenger out no matter what they say, because their first instinct is to provide excuses and try to support Wenger. Whilst we have people like that, who just sit on their arse and let the club drift, nothing will change. Get ready for another contract :(

A) AFTV gives voice to these people to pride itself on balance, but they are insignificant and although their voices are heard they are in number relatively small.


B) If someone said to you, you stupid cunt I can’t believe you think that. How compelled are you going to be to change your mind?. Frankly these people are lost causes, there’s about as much point to it as conversing with you. If NQ’s argument is to prod the vast majority into becoming more proactive than I’d agree.

[Cripps]

Losing to spurs will have absolutely no effect. We had 13 home wins in a row so that's the excuse for the extension at the end of the season :good:

[Letters]

LWe had 13 home wins in a row
Wenger :bow:

:d

[Cripps]

A) AFTV gives voice to these people to pride itself on balance, but they are insignificant and although their voices are heard they are in number relatively small.


B) If someone said to you, you stupid cunt I can’t believe you think that. How compelled are you going to be to change your mind?. Frankly these people are lost causes, there’s about as much point to it as conversing with you. If NQ’s argument is to prod the vast majority into becoming more proactive than I’d agree.

A. I'm not on about AFTV. I'm on about you, Letters, GP and MS.

B. Yep you certainly are. Tbh the only reason I converse with you is because I enjoy owning your arse on a daily basis and it makes the day go quicker :lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Losing to spurs will have absolutely no effect. We had 13 home wins in a row so that's the excuse for the extension at the end of the season :good:

The contract extension came despite fans wishes

The board arent going to sack him for losing the NLD no, but the fans in the stadium will turn ugly

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A. I'm not on about AFTV. I'm on about you, Letters, GP and MS.

B. Yep you certainly are. Tbh the only reason I converse with you is because I enjoy owning your arse on a daily basis and it makes the day go quicker :lol:

If I’ve told you once, I’ve told you twice. This isn’t prison anymore. If you want to own a boy either find a Gimp on the internet or relocate to the Phillipines.

At the risk of being sentimental you’re the best thing I’ve found on the internet since BBC Pidgin and James Joyce’s filthy letters to his girlfriend

[Cripps]

The contract extension came despite fans wishes

The board arent going to sack him for losing the NLD no, but the fans in the stadium will turn ugly

:lol: Are they? By doing what? Throwing their skinny lattes over each other? :lol:

[Özim]

I reckon being at home we could get a draw against Spurs, but even if we lose the bad sentiment will only last until we win a few games and then it will disappear, it happened last season, the discontent doesn't seem to grow it ebbs and flows.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol: Are they? By doing what? Throwing their skinny lattes over each other? :lol:

Well in case there’s any doubt. I’ve shown them your picture and PNC record and told them all you are moving near to their children’s primary school. And said Wenger gave you a character reference to get you early release

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I reckon being at home we could get a draw against Spurs, but even if we lose the bad sentiment will only last until we win a few games and then it will disappear, it happened last season, the discontent doesn't seem to grow it ebbs and flows.

There hasn’t been any serious discontent at the Emirates yet, it’s been largely confined to away games

[Letters]

:lol: Are they? By doing what? Throwing their skinny lattes over each other? :lol:

Well, see, this is part of the problem. Arsenal have relentlessly marketed themselves at the more middle class, affluent fan. They tend to be less passionate.
So while there will be boos and chants if things go badly, people aren't going to be smashing the place up.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well, see, this is part of the problem. Arsenal have relentlessly marketed themselves at the more middle class, affluent fan. They tend to be less passionate.
So while there will be boos and chants if things go badly, people aren't going to be smashing the place up.

Is that the problem?. That we aren’t routinely turning the Emirates into a Heysel reinactment

50,000 fans chanting “we want Wenger out” if we lose to Spurs?. That’s very different to a couple of 2,000 in one corner of an away ground.

[Letters]

Is that the problem?. That we aren’t routinely turning the Emirates into a Heysel reinactment

50,000 fans chanting “we want Wenger out” if we lose to Spurs?. That’s very different to a couple of 2,000 in one corner of an away ground.

OK. I don't want them smashing the place up. But my point is it's the more passionate fans who go to away games, that coupled with our poor away record is going to lead to more vocal discontent away from home.
At home we have more tourists, more middle-class less passionate fans - hence the lack of atmosphere generally - and results tend to be good.
So you're unlikely to see mass protests every home game.

[Özim]

There hasn’t been any serious discontent at the Emirates yet, it’s been largely confined to away games

I agree and that's the problem, I'm not sure there ever will be, there always seems to be an excuse, the decisions, bad luck etc etc I'd love to be wrong but bar a few boos (which we've heard before) we're never really going to see the discontent we need to see in reality, it seems to be too easy to turn around. Look at when we lost 4-0 to Liverpool this season, a few games later we're in the title race according to some and others fancy we can beat Man City.

[GP]

Anyone else think Wenger should be killed?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

OK. I don't want them smashing the place up. But my point is it's the more passionate fans who go to away games, that coupled with our poor away record is going to lead to more vocal discontent away from home.
At home we have more tourists, more middle-class less passionate fans - hence the lack of atmosphere generally - and results tend to be good.
So you're unlikely to see mass protests every home game.

I disagree

Didn’t used to see mass protests at away games or outside the ground

At the moment people are still retaining their displeasure for when we lose. We’ve started off the season with five of the easiest home games we could possibly imagine. Before Xmas we play Spurs, Liverpool and United. One of those fixtures will result in the “we want Wenger out” chant in the ground. Is it enough?. No of course not but the longer the old fossil stays at the club the more marked the displeasure will grow.

Now I think what is inclement on the rest of us is to try and give the process a push.

[Cripps]

Well, see, this is part of the problem. Arsenal have relentlessly marketed themselves at the more middle class, affluent fan. They tend to be less passionate.
So while there will be boos and chants if things go badly, people aren't going to be smashing the place up.

Yep. There's been a gentrification process at Arsenal to replace old school, working class fans with more affluent, middle class fans. The latter kick up less of a fuss and see Arsenal more as a hobby than a real passion.

[Cripps]

Is that the problem?. That we aren’t routinely turning the Emirates into a Heysel reinactment

50,000 fans chanting “we want Wenger out” if we lose to Spurs?. That’s very different to a couple of 2,000 in one corner of an away ground.

Are you gazidis in disguise?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I agree and that's the problem, I'm not sure there ever will be, there always seems to be an excuse, the decisions, bad luck etc etc I'd love to be wrong but bar a few boos (which we've heard before) we're never really going to see the discontent we need to see in reality, it seems to be too easy to turn around. Look at when we lost 4-0 to Liverpool this season, a few games later we're in the title race according to some and others fancy we can beat Man City.

There’s always going to be people like that,

There are people on the internet who believe all US mass shootings are carried out by paid actors

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Are you gazidis in disguise?

Yes

Are you Ian Huntley in disguise? If so you’re not meant to have internet access

[Letters]

Anyone else think Wenger should be killed?

Only if it's done slowly :angry:

[Marc Overmars]

Well, see, this is part of the problem. Arsenal have relentlessly marketed themselves at the more middle class, affluent fan. They tend to be less passionate.
So while there will be boos and chants if things go badly, people aren't going to be smashing the place up.

Yep. The appetite for change doesn't even compare to other clubs when things go tits up there.

This club exists on a different plane.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yep. There's been a gentrification process at Arsenal to replace old school, working class fans with more affluent, middle class fans. The latter kick up less of a fuss and see Arsenal more as a hobby than a real passion.

How many more times, the stewards asking you to stop exposing yourself to kids in the stand was a reasonable request not a sign of growing gentrification

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yep. The appetite for change doesn't even compare to other clubs when things go tits up there.

This club exists on a different plane.

Things aren’t what they were, and in fact they never were.

[Cripps]

How many more times, the stewards asking you to stop exposing yourself to kids in the stand was a reasonable request not a sign of growing gentrification

You really are a messed up individual.

[selassie]

Only if it's done slowly :angry:

A little bit with the handbrake on? :unsure:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So the takeaway message from today, something must be done....no more excuses

Nothing can be done, other fans are middle class cunts

Don’t know about the rest of you but feel real progress was made :haha:

[mastermind84]

Not based on yesterday's performance of course. And okay, I'll put Aguero on that list too. But that's all I'll concede. Most of these modern players aren't fit to lace the boots of those who went before them. Hyped beyond all reason.

idk

De Bruyne is a problem. They may be better with Gabriel Jesus than Aguero starting up top. Their keeper is good and Fernandinho is probably the best CM in the league.

But even if they are overhyped, that just shows you how great a manager Guardiola is.

[Cripps]

So the takeaway message from today, something must be done....no more excuses

Nothing can be done, Letters and me are middle class cunts

Don’t know about the rest of you but feel real progress was made :haha:

Completely agree.

[Niall_Quinn]

Our home record is #decent. I guess it's hard for fans to get that worked up when we're winning games. If we lose to Spurs on the back of losing to City things could get...interesting.
But then we'll beat some smaller sides and people will be placated.

You can support the team and you can hurl a torrent of abuse at the manager and the executive every time they show their lousy faces. That's how it used to be done, before transgenderism.

[Cripps]

You can support the team and you can hurl a torrent of abuse at the manager and the executive every time they show their lousy faces. That's how it used to be done, before transgenderism.

No need to bring Herbert into this.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Completely agree.

Well rather be a middle class cunt than a boy hungry nonce like you champ

Have you found a boy to “own” yet?. Genuine enquiry not Entrapment I promise

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You can support the team and you can hurl a torrent of abuse at the manager and the executive every time they show their lousy faces. That's how it used to be done, before transgenderism.

Actually I agree.

What it takes is someone to set an example by going to home games and hurling said abuse. I nominate you.

You’ve got to leave your house eventually

Would have nominated Cripps but I don’t think the prison system will allow him out on day release for such purposes

[Letters]

I'm only lower middle class, actually.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm only lower middle class, actually.

No one cares

[Letters]

Rude :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This place has become a festering cess pit of rudeness, angry resentment, bitter sniping, trolling and childish insults

I finally feel at home here.

[Niall_Quinn]

A) AFTV gives voice to these people to pride itself on balance, but they are insignificant and although their voices are heard they are in number relatively small.


B) If someone said to you, you stupid cunt I can’t believe you think that. How compelled are you going to be to change your mind?. Frankly these people are lost causes, there’s about as much point to it as conversing with you. If NQ’s argument is to prod the vast majority into becoming more proactive than I’d agree.

Every one of their arguments and excuses has to be comprehensively knocked down using the evidence of the past 10 years, the words of the manager himself and his minions. This isn't about opinions any more. It stopped being about opinions when the owners of this club and the manager took the money and then moved the goalposts (off the pitch). The law says they can do what they want with what they own on paper. But it doesn't say they are immune from the consequences. I honestly don't know why some of these so-called fans even want to go to the games. It's no big kudos thing any more. If anything you get laughed at for going. What's the attraction? Why can't they go to the cinema or a transvestite wine cellar or a small, intimate though cosmopolitan cafe that does rather fine triple latte made with pregnant llama milk, or whatever the fuck it is they do? Whey are they bothering infesting a football stadium and sticking up for a fraud like Wenger?

I think the fake fans need to be targeted and dispensed with first, and then Wenger. Then again, I think the fucking ticket prices should be reduced, the seats ripped out and the players forced to drink down at the local with the fans. Then the Nancy brigade wouldn't want to come anyway.

I saw a clip the other day of maybe 30 fans outside the stadium, not sure when but certainly this season. They had a few banners, it was a pretty lame affair. A few chants, a few chuckles. Nothing serious. Then this fag pitches up and starts screaming, "Who are you going to get thats better?"

Mickey Mouse, you daft poof. That's who. You defend the manager if he's winning. You fuck him out of the place if he's not. And when he fails to win season after season after season then why are these mongs still so vehement about defending him? Another thing I say today, a stat. 2 wins in the last 27 against the top 6. And you still get people asking who could we find that is better? Hurts my brain.

[Niall_Quinn]

Actually I agree.

What it takes is someone to set an example by going to home games and hurling said abuse. I nominate you.

You’ve got to leave your house eventually

Would have nominated Cripps but I don’t think the prison system will allow him out on day release for such purposes

With you camped outside with your rozzer mates? Not likely.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Every one of their arguments and excuses has to be comprehensively knocked down using the evidence of the past 10 years, the words of the manager himself and his minions. This isn't about opinions any more. It stopped being about opinions when the owners of this club and the manager took the money and then moved the goalposts (off the pitch). The law says they can do what they want with what they own on paper. But it doesn't say they are immune from the consequences. I honestly don't know why some of these so-called fans even want to go to the games. It's no big kudos thing any more. If anything you get laughed at for going. What's the attraction? Why can't they go to the cinema or a transvestite wine cellar or a small, intimate though cosmopolitan cafe that does rather fine triple latte made with pregnant llama milk, or whatever the fuck it is they do? Whey are they bothering infesting a football stadium and sticking up for a fraud like Wenger?

I think the fake fans need to be targeted and dispensed with first, and then Wenger. Then again, I think the fucking ticket prices should be reduced, the seats ripped out and the players forced to drink down at the local with the fans. Then the Nancy brigade wouldn't want to come anyway.

I saw a clip the other day of maybe 30 fans outside the stadium, not sure when but certainly this season. They had a few banners, it was a pretty lame affair. A few chants, a few chuckles. Nothing serious. Then this fag pitches up and starts screaming, "Who are you going to get thats better?"

Mickey Mouse, you daft poof. That's who. You defend the manager if he's winning. You fuck him out of the place if he's not. And when he fails to win season after season after season then why are these mongs still so vehement about defending him? Another thing I say today, a stat. 2 wins in the last 27 against the top 6. And you still get people asking who could we find that is better? Hurts my brain.

I wish you every success. Are you able to give me an action plan of how you demand compliance of these people?.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

With you camped outside with your rozzer mates? Not likely.

We could just come in without invitation but we don’t want to upset the neighbours

We don’t like Thought criminals like you at INGSOC

[Letters]

Then this fag pitches up and starts screaming, "Who are you going to get thats better?".
Letters :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, see, this is part of the problem. Arsenal have relentlessly marketed themselves at the more middle class, affluent fan. They tend to be less passionate.
So while there will be boos and chants if things go badly, people aren't going to be smashing the place up.

Maybe a swift kick in the bollocks will rouse their passion?

[Niall_Quinn]

We could just come in without invitation but we don’t want to upset the neighbours

Well you're hardly likely to come WITH an invitation.

You just stay out there and keep on going with your mobile phone tap. Suckers.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yep. There's been a gentrification process at Arsenal to replace old school, working class fans with more affluent, middle class fans. The latter kick up less of a fuss and see Arsenal more as a hobby than a real passion.

Hardly a surprise given the tickets are 2 foot long so they can fit the fucking price on them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Somebody just got me a yoghurt, which is bad enough, but when I opened it it was in two different pots and you have to mix the cunt together yourself. Lazy piss taking bastards.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well you're hardly likely to come WITH an invitation.

You just stay out there and keep on going with your mobile phone tap. Suckers.

That’s not true. Some Traitors show remorse for their crimes and welcome their execution.

You however :censored:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Somebody just got me a yoghurt, which is bad enough, but when I opened it it was in two different pots and you have to mix the cunt together yourself. Lazy piss taking bastards.

:haha:

You need to fire the help

[Niall_Quinn]

I wish you every success. Are you able to give me an action plan of how you demand compliance of these people?.

I was thinking of setting up a representative democracy.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That’s not true. Some Traitors show remorse for their crimes and welcome their execution.

You however :censored:


I was thinking of setting up a representative democracy.

You’ll suffer for this!!

[Letters]

I was thinking of setting up a representative democracy.

Nah. Benevolent dictatorship. Like this place.

Letters :bow:
Maccy :bow:
(and to a lesser extent) Niall Quinn (no underscore) :bow:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nah. Benevolent dictatorship. Like this place.

Letters :bow:
Maccy :bow:
(and to a lesser extent) Niall Quinn (no underscore) :bow:

Not benevolent at all

You are constantly infringing on my rights to make tasteless jokes about recent tragedies and deleting the abuse I throw at Cripps

Worse than Hitler

[GP]

Not benevolent at all

You are constantly infringing on my rights to make tasteless jokes about recent tragedies and deleting the abuse I throw at Cripps

Worse than Hitler

At least Hitler could grow a moustache.

Letters :haha:

[Cripps]

Nah. Benevolent dictatorship. Like this place.

Letters :bow:
Maccy :bow:
(and to a lesser extent) Niall Quinn (no underscore) :bow:

I initially thought NQ had 2 accounts and was switching between a mod and normal account, bit like the way you switch between the Letters and Herbert account.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I initially thought NQ had 2 accounts and was switching between a mod and normal account, bit like the way you switch between the Letters and Herbert account.

I love the way you switch between being an idiot and a degenerate whilst using the same account

[Cripps]

:lol: winding you up is too easy

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol: winding you up is too easy

I’m more scared you’ll get upset and self harm if I don’t reply

[mastermind84]

If Wenger was never a good tactician, if he was never a good motivator, and if it's a gimme he'd fail in the transfer market despite having money...

Who developed the best attacking football this country has seen?
Who kept the team firing through an unbeaten season?
Who signed Henry, Vieira, Overmars, Petit, Henry, Pires?

I think you have hit on something here Letters. Which leads on to a more interesting question. Wenger's real legacy. Who was responsible for the great success we had at the turn of the century, and if it was Wenger, how can he possibly have abandoned everything and laboured so hard to produce this absolute shit show, some of the most boring football ever seen, some of the least ambitious and a team packed with expensive dross? He signed Sanogo instead of Mbappe.

My theory so far is, his early legacy remains intact but he had a mental breakdown. If he carries on, some people might not be so kind in their judgement.

Wenger has never been a tactician, but the crap about him not being a motivator and not being good in the transfer market is crap.

Wenger didnt lose his mind though. He just got old and out of touch. His tactical failings shine greater now since Pochittino and Guardiola are in the league now. Even Klopp's basic tactical self is better at it than Wenger. Mourinho is having similar problems with United because the game isnt won on the transitions anymore like his early Chelsea sides used to stunt.

[Letters]

I don't think he was ever a great motivator. Our biggest successes under him came when we had strong captains, Adams then Vieira.
His talent in the transfer market was his knowledge of the game outside these shores in an era when most managers only knew about GHELs.
Now every club has a worldwide scouting network.
And the fitness regimes which he brought in and were revolutionary at the time have been surpassed.
The things he brought to the table gave us an edge when he arrived, but other clubs have caught up and surpassed us.

[Cripps]

Somebody just got me a yoghurt, which is bad enough, but when I opened it it was in two different pots and you have to mix the cunt together yourself. Lazy piss taking bastards.

Sounds like something they'd sell at the Emirates.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yes

Are you Ian Huntley in disguise? If so you’re not meant to have internet access

Didn’t Huntley top himself?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Didn’t Huntley top himself?

No you’re thinking of Harold Shipman or Fred West

[Xhaka Can’t]

No you’re thinking of Harold Shipman or Fred West

All the time mate.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

All the time mate.

Me too....I miss them dreadfully
:crying:

[GP]

No you’re thinking of Harold Shipman or Fred West

Fun fact; Harold Shipman was a top amateur boxer.

His jab was lethal.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

:lol: winding you up is too easy

Now you've admitted intentionally wumming, please stop.

[Cripps]

It was a tongue in cheek comment. But I suppose you're looking for an excuse.

The intimidation + threats begins. Can't be far off a ban.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Now you've admitted intentionally wumming, please stop.

Come on man, lighten up a bit.

It’s just banter. I say worse things to people in my office

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It was a tongue in cheek comment. But I suppose you're looking for an excuse.

The intimidation + threats begins. Can't be far off a ban.

Start a hunger strike you can be GW’s equivalent of Bobby Sands

By that I mean dead :haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Fun fact; Harold Shipman was a top amateur boxer.

His jab was lethal.

:rimshot:

[Cripps]

Come on man, lighten up a bit.

It’s just banter. I say worse things to people in my office

Thank you.

Funny that he hasn't given you a warning despite you giving it just as much as me, if not been even more personal and descriptive in abuse.. wouldn't happen to be because you're less harsh on Wenger and haven't got into a personal fued with one of the mods would it :rolleyes:

[Power n Glory]

Now you've admitted intentionally wumming, please stop.

You guys are taking the piss.

[Power n Glory]

Thank you.

Funny that he hasn't given you a warning despite you giving it just as much as me, if not been even more personal and descriptive in abuse.. wouldn't happen to be because you're less harsh on Wenger and haven't got into a personal fued with one of the mods would it :rolleyes:

I don't think it's anything to do with being anti Wenger. I just think they have a personal gripe against you. The amount of shit talking that goes on here, I haven't seen a single person told to stop Wumming by a mod in recent years despite it being a daily thing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Thank you.

Funny that he hasn't given you a warning despite you giving it just as much as me, if not been even more personal and descriptive in abuse.. wouldn't happen to be because you're less harsh on Wenger and haven't got into a personal fued with one of the mods would it :rolleyes:

Don’t get into personal feuds then

I throw insults at you because I enjoy doing it.

Plus I got a warning over implying heavily you were a child with Down’s syndrome the other day :haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think it's anything to do with being anti Wenger. I just think they have a personal gripe against you. The amount of shit talking that goes on here, I haven't seen a single person told to stop Wumming by a mod in recent years despite it being a daily thing.

Yeah there was a post on here some time ago where the mods encouraged other users to say how much they hated Cripps

I said I didn’t really know the guy and please “leave me be sirs” but they wouldn’t stop pestering me until I agreed to lie about how he had been aggressively sexting me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

For my money, the mods try and sanitise this place too much

We aren’t animals like Scottish people, you don’t need to constantly delete things in order to avoid ending up in court

A bit of trolling is good for the soul

[Niall_Quinn]

If it's a choice between a bit of WUMery and 100 posts a day, or 1 middle of the road post a week, I'm happier with the former.

Only thing I would say is I wish people would cut down on the bad language. If you can't make your point without resorting to swearing then you don't really have much of a point, do you?

And the Phil Collins stuff is bang out of order.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If it's a choice between a bit of WUMery and 100 posts a day, or 1 middle of the road post a week, I'm happier with the former.

Only thing I would say is I wish people would cut down on the bad language. If you can't make your point without resorting to swearing then you don't really have much of a point, do you?

And the Phil Collins stuff is bang out of order.

Don’t be a cunt all your life

[Niall_Quinn]

For my money, the mods try and sanitise this place too much

We aren’t animals like Scottish people, you don’t need to constantly delete things in order to avoid ending up in court

A bit of trolling is good for the soul

You do a little bit.

Some lefty congress cunt was on with Twatter today fucking them up for not censoring fast enough. Twatter apologised and said they'd put more work into the "self-correcting" systems.

This place is mild compared to what's going on in the grown up world.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You do a little bit.

Some lefty congress cunt was on with Twatter today fucking them up for not censoring fast enough. Twatter apologised and said they'd put more work into the "self-correcting" systems.

This place is mild compared to what's going on in the grown up world.

I refer you to my previous reply

[Niall_Quinn]

Don’t be a cunt all your life

I suppose you expect me to just obey without question?

Not happening.

[Cripps]

You guys are taking the piss.


I don't think it's anything to do with being anti Wenger. I just think they have a personal gripe against you. The amount of shit talking that goes on here, I haven't seen a single person told to stop Wumming by a mod in recent years despite it being a daily thing.

Me and Herbert crack banter and I get given a warning for WUMming :lol: you can't make it up :lol:

I'll be hooked off here soon mate. It's the norm around here. There's a conveyor belt of people that have been hooked off over the years and it always seems to be the overly anti-Wenger posters, never the other side. This place is like the Emirates- a sanitised, cleansed place with a bunch of fools in charge.

[Letters]

For my money, the mods try and sanitise this place too much

We aren’t animals like Scottish people, you don’t need to constantly delete things in order to avoid ending up in court

A bit of trolling is good for the soul
Behave. I honestly can't remember the last time I deleted a post much less banned someone.
We were stricter back in the day but recently we've hardly been cracking down.

[Cripps]

You guys are taking the piss.


If it's a choice between a bit of WUMery and 100 posts a day, or 1 middle of the road post a week, I'm happier with the former.

Only thing I would say is I wish people would cut down on the bad language. If you can't make your point without resorting to swearing then you don't really have much of a point, do you?

And the Phil Collins stuff is bang out of order.

Pretty much

This place was slower than a snail up until recently... I remember looking at times and there hadn't been a post all day in the Arsenal section. Now I've come back and it's changed.

Me :bow:

[Cripps]

Behave. I honestly can't remember the last time I deleted a post much less banned someone.
We were stricter back in the day but recently we've hardly been cracking down.

What's the memo in the mod section in the thread about me, someone else ban Vieira cause if Letters does it there'll be uproar? :lol:

[Letters]

Uproar :lol:

[GP]

Uproar :lol:

That's a funny way to spell celebration.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Pretty much

This place was slower than a snail up until recently... I remember looking at times and there hadn't been a post all day in the Arsenal section. Now I've come back and it's changed.

Me :bow:

You have the same kind of appeal as the worst kind of reality tv programs

In your case the show would be Extreme Cottaging or something like that

[Letters]

That's a funny way to spell celebration.

:lol: Literally got every letter wrong.

[Cripps]

You have the same kind of appeal as the worst kind of reality tv programs

In your case the show would be Extreme Cottaging or something like that

Never heard of it tbh

You'd be The Biggest Loser

:tiphat:

[Niall_Quinn]

Could we please get back on topic?

Wenger Out!

[Niall_Quinn]

Laurent Koscielny and David Silva opted to grab a unique memento off each other after Manchester City beat Arsenal on Sunday.

Following City's 3-1 victory in the Premier League, the Arsenal defender and the City midfielder decided to swap shorts with each other. Yes you heard that correct. Shorts not shirts.

Just like Adams, Keown and Bould used to do after a loss.

I don't think.

Silva beat the pants off us on the pitch and then walked off with them at the end. Nice.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Never heard of it tbh

You'd be The Biggest Loser

:tiphat:

That actually wasn’t bad for you

[Özim]

Just like Adams, Keown and Bould used to do after a loss.

I don't think.

Silva beat the pants off us on the pitch and then walked off with them at the end. Nice.

It's not the first time one of our players has done something like this is it? Players with really desire and hunger to be successful wouldn't be doing this kind of thing after defeat, we've got players that really aren't hungry to win, they get beaten and it's water of a ducks back, though to be fair it happens so much these days (sometimes by a cricket score) it must be part of the course, they know Wenger won't come down on them like a tonne of bricks either so they probably think what's the harm.

[Letters]

"Par for the course", Zim.

You idiom...

[GP]

"Par for the course", Zim.

You idiom...

You'll get there through denial and error.

Besides, it's not a rocket appliance.

[Letters]

You'll get there through denial and error.

Besides, it's not a rocket appliance.

This is why I've always put you on a pedal stool.

[Niall_Quinn]

'I honestly think they're unfixable under Arsene. What he's got there is he's created an environment which the players don't really know what they're doing without the ball.

'It's quite simple - when I watch them I think "they could beat anyone on their day going forward, but they could lose to anyone defensively".

'That summed it up at the weekend against City. The Lacazette thing is another issue, as to why he's not playing, but you play Sanchez up front, who is a chaser of the ball; if he loses the ball then he'll chase to win it back.

'If you've got that, as a manager, you have to have the players to go and back that up, and he didn't have that. He hasn't got that because they don't know how to do that on a regular basis - they are not a pressing side.

'They do it now and again - they did it against Chelsea, they got it right against Chelsea in the cup final and in the league, and you think "wow, they're back".

'And then they fall again like they did against Watford, and then you see them trying to press Man City, one of the best passing sides in the league. How is that allowed to happen?

'If you're not a pressing side, then you have to press for months and years at a time in order to get it right, it's really difficult. It's not just a case of "you all just rush to the ball".

'There have to be triggers, and you need to know when to press - which is just as hard as knowing when not to press if you're a pressing side, because sometimes you have to unpress, if you like, and just sit where you are.

'Just running willy-nilly at the ball is a disaster, especially against City.'

Lee Dixon. A bloke who knows a bit about defending and knows a bit about playing under Wenger.

I wonder if anyone within the club is listening?

"I honestly think they're unfixable under Arsene."

[Niall_Quinn]

Some feedback from Arsenal "fans" in response to Dixon.


Well who do the fans want to replace Wenger? Yeah no one knows or has a clue.

Wenger was actually right about not giving Sanchez and Ozil new contracts. The only problem was the Arsenal fans who would have rioted if he sold them in their prime

Careful what you wish for.... With that squad, Sanchez & Ozil leaving as well.... Wenger going could see a massive decline and maybe even mid table - lower half finishes for quite a few seasons.

Arsenal have a net spend budget that allows them to finish in roughly 4th place.............it's not rocket science it really isn't!

Oh Dixon........Your suggestion is that Wenger deliberately chooses to buy only one finished article player a season like Sanchez, Ozil and Lacazette................instead of buying four in one window like the other teams........as if he can but does not spend...........I will say this slowly........Arsenal have a smaller budget!

Year after year, the same old excuses.

[Niall_Quinn]

Some feedback from opposition fans...


We want you to stay! We want you to stay! Arsene Wenger, we want you to stay!

[Cripps]

Some feedback from Arsenal "fans" in response to Dixon.



Year after year, the same old excuses.


Someone change Letters' password on Twitter.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I wonder if anyone within the club is listening?

:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

:haha:

I mean, are they bugging Dixon's phone so they can get dirt on him?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I mean, are they bugging Dixon's phone so they can get dirt on him?

No just yours, you filthy anarchist

[Power n Glory]

Some feedback from Arsenal "fans" in response to Dixon.



Year after year, the same old excuses.

I don’t know about you but I’m starting to despise the club as a whole from top to bottom.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don’t know about you but I’m starting to despise the club as a whole from top to bottom.

Forget Gazidis, Kroenke and Son, Wenger, Gonella or Keswick

The real cunt is Gunnersaurus

[Cripps]

I don’t know about you but I’m starting to despise the club as a whole from top to bottom.

It really is a completely different club now. It's like they wanted to wipe the old Arsenal from Highbury and start a fresh one.

[Cripps]

Here's a question

If you knew Wenger would 100% be gone if we lost to Spurs, would you want us to lose?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Here's a question

If you knew Wenger would 100% be gone if we lost to Spurs, would you want us to lose?

As much as I hate the idea of losing to Spurs especially at the Emirates, Yes

It’s called the chemotherapy option

[Letters]

I don’t know about you but I’m starting to despise the club as a whole from top to bottom.

And football in general tbh. Fed up with the preening, cheating multi-millionaires who pass for players (and, ironically, mostly can't pass for toffees), the obscene amounts of money in the game and the media jizz-fest over every game.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And football in general tbh. Fed up with the preening, cheating multi-millionaires who pass for players (and, ironically, mostly can't pass for toffees), the obscene amounts of money in the game and the media jizz-fest over every game.

You know what I still love? Masters Football

[Letters]

I've been to MK Dons a few times with my in-laws as I thought it would be fun.
Wasn't.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t know about you but I’m starting to despise the club as a whole from top to bottom.

Better than Stockholm syndrome, which is what much of the fanbase seems to be suffering. The mere idea of Wenger not being here terrifies them.

Changing the manager is part and parcel of football and all competitive sport. Performance keeps you in your job. Non-performance gets you booted. Arsenal has changed manager many times. Wenger only arrived here after Rioch left prematurely. These things happen and must happen for a club to stay competitive, these things are normal. ONE manager in recent times has managed to go past just a few years and remain competitive at the same club. Ferguson. He's the EXCEPTION, not the rule. Even Maureen couldn't keep his job in chavland despite pulling down some of the best successes that club has ever experienced.

But we've reached the stage at this club where the notion of a change of manager is seen as dangerous, damaging, unrealistic, and it's all based on the fact the bloke has been here so long. I don't think it's even his legacy. The frightened bunnies aren't playing that tune anymore, instead they are clinging to the fear card. They have nothing else left so they pretend there's nobody out there who could possibly replace the bloke. For them, Wenger has become so familiar, and he's indoctrinated them so thoroughly in the art of mediocrity, they are happy to hang on to this nothingness rather than throw the club back into the real fight. It's as if we are on an endless time-out, watching the rest of football carry on around us while we sit in a bubble.

And our football is the same. Boring. Average. Unremarkable. This when we know the players could get back in the fight - we've seen them do it from time to time which makes it all the more infuriating.

I think the pro-Wenger lot might be an even bigger problem than Wenger himself. Alexis and Ozil said they'd wait on the outcome of Wenger's contract negotiations to make their own decisions. Well it's pretty clear how they view Wenger and their solution is to piss off. That seems to be the offer to fans who want to see a bit of ambition. Accept what you have or fuck off. Stop going. Stop watching. Give your tickets to "real" fans who get behind the manager and the club - Wenger has effectively said this himself, with all his criticism of the troublesome fans who bother him with reality and facts.

Well why should the fans fuck off? It should be the pro Wenger lot who want Wenger more than Arsenal who fuck off. Why doesn't Wenger take them all off to some island and make their little cult official?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I've been to MK Dons a few times with my in-laws as I thought it would be fun.
Wasn't.

You went to watch football at a club that wholly embodies the artificiality of modern football and how the fans are the last consideration and you were disappointed?

[Niall_Quinn]

Here's a question

If you knew Wenger would 100% be gone if we lost to Spurs, would you want us to lose?

Just one more humiliation? And Wenger gone?

Fuck. I'd bite your hand and half your arm off for that!

[Niall_Quinn]

And football in general tbh. Fed up with the preening, cheating multi-millionaires who pass for players (and, ironically, mostly can't pass for toffees), the obscene amounts of money in the game and the media jizz-fest over every game.

And it's LIVE!

[Letters]

You went to watch football at a club that wholly embodies the artificiality of modern football and how the fans are the last consideration and you were disappointed?

:lol:

I thought it might be fun.
Wasn't.

Actually, I went to see them play Chelsea in the FA Cup. They got walloped but they did get a goal at one point which might have been an equaliser so that was amusing for a few minutes. And I enjoyed booing Fabregas.
The quality of the other games though. Shocking.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Better than Stockholm syndrome, which is what much of the fanbase seems to be suffering. The mere idea of Wenger not being here terrifies them.

Changing the manager is part and parcel of football and all competitive sport. Performance keeps you in your job. Non-performance gets you booted. Arsenal has changed manager many times. Wenger only arrived here after Rioch left prematurely. These things happen and must happen for a club to stay competitive, these things are normal. ONE manager in recent times has managed to go past just a few years and remain competitive at the same club. Ferguson. He's the EXCEPTION, not the rule. Even Maureen couldn't keep his job in chavland despite pulling down some of the best successes that club has ever experienced.

But we've reached the stage at this club where the notion of a change of manager is seen as dangerous, damaging, unrealistic, and it's all based on the fact the bloke has been here so long. I don't think it's even his legacy. The frightened bunnies aren't playing that tune anymore, instead they are clinging to the fear card. They have nothing else left so they pretend there's nobody out there who could possibly replace the bloke. For them, Wenger has become so familiar, and he's indoctrinated them so thoroughly in the art of mediocrity, they are happy to hang on to this nothingness rather than throw the club back into the real fight. It's as if we are on an endless time-out, watching the rest of football carry on around us while we sit in a bubble.

And our football is the same. Boring. Average. Unremarkable. This when we know the players could get back in the fight - we've seen them do it from time to time which makes it all the more infuriating.

I think the pro-Wenger lot might be an even bigger problem than Wenger himself. Alexis and Ozil said they'd wait on the outcome of Wenger's contract negotiations to make their own decisions. Well it's pretty clear how they view Wenger and their solution is to piss off. That seems to be the offer to fans who want to see a bit of ambition. Accept what you have or fuck off. Stop going. Stop watching. Give your tickets to "real" fans who get behind the manager and the club - Wenger has effectively said this himself, with all his criticism of the troublesome fans who bother him with reality and facts.

Well why should the fans fuck off? It should be the pro Wenger lot who want Wenger more than Arsenal who fuck off. Why doesn't Wenger take them all off to some island and make their little cult official?

Your reaction here suggests that you really weren’t lying when you speak about how you avoid social media

[Niall_Quinn]

You went to watch football at a club that wholly embodies the artificiality of modern football and how the fans are the last consideration and you were disappointed?

At leat we are competitive in one respect.

[Niall_Quinn]

Your reaction here suggests that you really weren’t lying when you speak about how you avoid social media

I really don't have anything to do with social media. YouTube I suppose. That's about it.

But Twatter, Faceboot and all the fake news mainstream got a nasty shock the other day.

No more slush funds :haha:

They'll all be gone within a couple of years and I'll be able to say I never gave them a single byte. Not blowing that record now.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I really don't have anything to do with social media. YouTube I suppose. That's about it.

But Twatter, Faceboot and all the fake news mainstream got a nasty shock the other day.

No more slush funds :haha:

They'll all be gone within a couple of years and I'll be able to say I never gave them a single byte. Not blowing that record now.

Not really

The companies may go, but the concept will remain and will just be repackaged differently

[Cripps]

You went to watch football at a club that wholly embodies the artificiality of modern football and how the fans are the last consideration and you were disappointed?

:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Not really

The companies may go, but the concept will remain and will just be repackaged differently

Technology is about to sweep them all away. The penalty they will pay for trying to control people when people increasingly refuse to be controlled. It'll probably take a century for the real power of the Internet to be fully appreciated. The printing press profoundly altered the course of humanity, but nobody would have fully appreciated the reality around the time of its invention. We are witnessing the last gasps of the legacy media and that's going to be very frightening for a lot of people, a bit like Arsenal fans who can't envisage a post-Wenger environment. But it'll be like a coma victim waking up. First confusion and disorientation, then reconnection and a whole new world.

What the dinosaurs pull to try to hang on, that's the thing to be scared of.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Technology is about to sweep them all away. The penalty they will pay for trying to control people when people increasingly refuse to be controlled. It'll probably take a century for the real power of the Internet to be fully appreciated. The printing press profoundly altered the course of humanity, but nobody would have fully appreciated the reality around the time of its invention. We are witnessing the last gasps of the legacy media and that's going to be very frightening for a lot of people, a bit like Arsenal fans who can't envisage a post-Wenger environment. But it'll be like a coma victim waking up. First confusion and disorientation, then reconnection and a whole new world.

What the dinosaurs pull to try to hang on, that's the thing to be scared of.

Yes.....

Again a microcosm of things. The mainstream media like to lie and distort so the obvious option is to seek out news sources that lie and distort more blatantly but reaffirms our own beliefs.

[selassie]

Here's a question

If you knew Wenger would 100% be gone if we lost to Spurs, would you want us to lose?

Yes

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes.....

Again a microcosm of things. The mainstream media like to lie and distort so the obvious option is to seek out news sources that lie and distort more blatantly but reaffirms our own beliefs.

"Lies", distortion and bias (opinions) are all part of the human make-up. Real judgement comes from the whole body of imperfect evidence. But when you centralise and continuously consolidate the outlets through which this sea of bias is sifted and filtered (the mainstream) you seize control and you get to craft the message. That has been the foundational relationship between power and people for centuries. Books brought education. Technology will open gates and let anyone and everyone pass through them, carrying whatever information they wish. You're viewing this in terms of replacement rather than revolution. The revolution happened a while back and the stupid, greedy corporations built their empires on the back of it. Now, like all technology (eventually) it is finding its way into the mainstream - hence the great panic in officialdom as they rush about with their silly and impotent censorship pens and worthless ownership decrees. Nothing will flow through a central point, it will flow everywhere and it will be untraceable, uncensorable and unstoppable. Unless the dinosaurs want to shut technology down and bring us back to medieval times. They might, I suppose. They've done it to other countries.

The other possibility in terms of a negative outcome is if the majority has let its self esteem fall so low it demands its chains be restored. That's definitely a possibility. But it would have to be a very high percentage who are that hopeless.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

"Lies", distortion and bias (opinions) are all part of the human make-up. Real judgement comes from the whole body of imperfect evidence. But when you centralise and continuously consolidate the outlets through which this sea of bias is sifted and filtered (the mainstream) you seize control and you get to craft the message. That has been the foundational relationship between power and people for centuries. Books brought education. Technology will open gates and let anyone and everyone pass through them, carrying whatever information they wish. You're viewing this in terms of replacement rather than revolution. The revolution happened a while back and the stupid, greedy corporations built their empires on the back of it. Now, like all technology (eventually) it is finding its way into the mainstream - hence the great panic in officialdom as they rush about with their silly and impotent censorship pens and worthless ownership decrees. Nothing will flow through a central point, it will flow everywhere and it will be untraceable, uncensorable and unstoppable. Unless the dinosaurs want to shut technology down and bring us back to medieval times. They might, I suppose. They've done it to other countries.

The other possibility in terms of a negative outcome is if the majority has let its self esteem fall so low it demands its chains be restored. That's definitely a possibility. But it would have to be a very high percentage who are that hopeless.

So how many people are going to diligently go through every single source of media and then lay it all on a giant figurative crucible to burn out a pure truth?.

Frankly all the evidence I’ve seen is as far removed from that as possible. People on both the left and the right become crumbling emotional wrecks if their world view is in anyway challenged. And this heralds the use of the term “fake news” not pointed towards genuine fakery but just desperately at anything that makes us feel uncomfortable.

I’m totally anti censorship, I think the only imposition upon free speech should be incitement. But you’ll forgive me if I’m not seeing the same glorious age emerging resulting from challenging what is wrong as you are.

[Niall_Quinn]

So how many people are going to diligently go through every single source of media and then lay it all on a giant figurative crucible to burn out a pure truth?.

Frankly all the evidence I’ve seen is as far removed from that as possible. People on both the left and the right become crumbling emotional wrecks if their world view is in anyway challenged. And this heralds the use of the term “fake news” not pointed towards genuine fakery but just desperately at anything that makes us feel uncomfortable.

I’m totally anti censorship, I think the only imposition upon free speech should be incitement. But you’ll forgive me if I’m not seeing the same glorious age emerging resulting from challenging what is wrong as you are.

Millions of people will do it. Some badly, others well. Already happening. Look at Wikipedia as an example. Doesn't it amaze you how much effort so many private and unpaid individuals put into that? Some people are like that. Hobbies, interests, a desire to inform, whatever the reason. When you have billions of people only a small percentage is required to build an army. Compare with the tiny number of gatekeepers trying to do it all. People power is exponentially more powerful and effective than establishment power. Right now, if Wikipedia went off message it could be seized or shut down. Those options are now being removed. The dinosaur Twitter is sitting in front of other dinosaurs, to try to figure out dinosaur methods to retain dinosaur supremacy - some 30 years after it all being too late for them.

[Letters]

You've often sneered if I've used Wiki as a source in a debate :unsure:
To me the proliferation of "news" sources and social media have made it harder than ever to know for sure what is true.

[Cripps]

:lol: f*ck me is this what it's turned to? The Arsenal debates are so dead we've resorted to debating about technology :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

You've often sneered if I've used Wiki as a source in a debate :unsure:
To me the proliferation of "news" sources and social media have made it harder than ever to know for sure what is true.

Letters, that's not what we were talking about.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: f*ck me is this what it's turned to? The Arsenal debates are so dead we've resorted to debating about technology :lol:

Don't worry. This happens a lot. Breaks up the monotony of talking about same old Arsenal.

[Cripps]

Don't worry. This happens a lot. Breaks up the monotony of talking about same old Arsenal.

Can we talk about the Queen next? I'm chomping to get a few things off my chest after her tax dodging shenanigans.

[Letters]

Say what you like about Wenger but if you start disrespecting the Queen I'm banning the shit out of you :fury:


Gawd bless 'er.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Meh better than Prince Andrew using royal privilege to avoid prosecution for arms dealing

[Özim]

Here's a question

If you knew Wenger would 100% be gone if we lost to Spurs, would you want us to lose?

You know my answer :lol:

It would just be one more defeat in a long line of them, they're a better team anyway.

[Özim]

And football in general tbh. Fed up with the preening, cheating multi-millionaires who pass for players (and, ironically, mostly can't pass for toffees), the obscene amounts of money in the game and the media jizz-fest over every game.

Forget football in general, that's steering away from the point somewhat, for me what I'm interested in is Arsenal and I agree with that statement as well. We don't dislike football because of other teams we dislike it now because our club has sunk very low, if we had a team like we did 15 years ago you can bet your bottom dollar noone would be that bothered about football in general.

Ask Man City fans if they hate football.

[GP]

Say what you like about Wenger but if you start disrespecting the Queen I'm banning the shit out of you :fury:


Gawd bless 'er.

I heard the queen cuts her sandwiches into rectangles.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Forget football in general, that's steering away from the point somewhat, for me what I'm interested in is Arsenal and I agree with that statement as well. We don't dislike football because of other teams we dislike it now because our club has sunk very low, if we had a team like we did 15 years ago you can bet your bottom dollar noone would be that bothered about football in general.

Ask Man City fans if they hate football.

Yes and No

There’s no doubt that the current state of AFC is the single biggest factor in my waining interest in football

But used to look forward more to the big games that didn’t concern us even if we didn’t have a stake in the result, now? Who gives a fuck!

Could transpire that Kroenke suffers a serious head injury and fires Wenger and invest in the club out of his own pocket. I’d be more enthusiastic for sure, but the love for the game still greatly diminished.

[Özim]

Better than Stockholm syndrome, which is what much of the fanbase seems to be suffering. The mere idea of Wenger not being here terrifies them.

Changing the manager is part and parcel of football and all competitive sport. Performance keeps you in your job. Non-performance gets you booted. Arsenal has changed manager many times. Wenger only arrived here after Rioch left prematurely. These things happen and must happen for a club to stay competitive, these things are normal. ONE manager in recent times has managed to go past just a few years and remain competitive at the same club. Ferguson. He's the EXCEPTION, not the rule. Even Maureen couldn't keep his job in chavland despite pulling down some of the best successes that club has ever experienced.

But we've reached the stage at this club where the notion of a change of manager is seen as dangerous, damaging, unrealistic, and it's all based on the fact the bloke has been here so long. I don't think it's even his legacy. The frightened bunnies aren't playing that tune anymore, instead they are clinging to the fear card. They have nothing else left so they pretend there's nobody out there who could possibly replace the bloke. For them, Wenger has become so familiar, and he's indoctrinated them so thoroughly in the art of mediocrity, they are happy to hang on to this nothingness rather than throw the club back into the real fight. It's as if we are on an endless time-out, watching the rest of football carry on around us while we sit in a bubble.

And our football is the same. Boring. Average. Unremarkable. This when we know the players could get back in the fight - we've seen them do it from time to time which makes it all the more infuriating.

I think the pro-Wenger lot might be an even bigger problem than Wenger himself. Alexis and Ozil said they'd wait on the outcome of Wenger's contract negotiations to make their own decisions. Well it's pretty clear how they view Wenger and their solution is to piss off. That seems to be the offer to fans who want to see a bit of ambition. Accept what you have or fuck off. Stop going. Stop watching. Give your tickets to "real" fans who get behind the manager and the club - Wenger has effectively said this himself, with all his criticism of the troublesome fans who bother him with reality and facts.

Well why should the fans fuck off? It should be the pro Wenger lot who want Wenger more than Arsenal who fuck off. Why doesn't Wenger take them all off to some island and make their little cult official?

Totally agree, it's very weird, the manager has actually become bigger than the club for some of these people, like you said clubs (normal ones) change manager when things aren't going well.

The guy has had more than a fair chance to put things right and he's failed miserably, choosing to continue to use his flawed methods, the whole Wenger phenomena is weird to be honest, this kind of thing has never been seen in football before, a manager of a top club that has little interest in winning big trophies, never learns from his mistakes and jusr point blank refuses to change anything, that together with the fans that follow him like Lemmings finding all the excuses under the sun for him. How many more years will it take for people to see him for what he is, he's had so many bites at the cherry, failed miserably in the exact same way time and time again and still some people think he's some kinda of genius hindered by everything under the sun.

[Letters]

I heard the queen cuts her sandwiches into rectangles.

<_<

Stupid bint.

[Özim]

Yes and No

There’s no doubt that the current state of AFC is the single biggest factor in my waining interest in football

But used to look forward more to the big games that didn’t concern us even if we didn’t have a stake in the result, now? Who gives a fuck!

There's obviously some truth in that, but do you think the fact we're nowhere these days affects your interest in those matches as well, if we were hovering around the top and those matches actually could make a different to us winning the title do you not think they would be more interesting to watch.

Right now I'm the same, not bothered about the big matches, they're insignificant though, when we use to be in the title hunt I use to like to watch them to hopefully get to see a result that was good for us, or to see how good are competitors were, it's now irrelevant.

[Letters]

Ask Man City fans if they hate football.
I'm sure all the Man City "fans" who didn't give a monkeys 10 years ago and have suddenly sprung out of nowhere are loving it.
Yes, I'm sure glory hunters only care about the state of the club.
Personally, I a fed up about that but that's only a bigger part of how fed up I am about football in general. And I was saying some of these things in the glory years too. Obviously when Arsenal are doing well it masks it somewhat, but the game is in a mess generally, it's not the sport I grew up with.

[Letters]

Totally agree, it's very weird, the manager has actually become bigger than the club for some of these people, like you said clubs (normal ones) change manager when things aren't going well.

Normal clubs have a board that cares about how things go on the pitch, not in the financial spreadsheets.
I don't like the way the billionaires have come in and bought success but they were at least aiming for trophies, not profit.
By the targets the board set for him, he is succeeding. The issue is their criteria for success is not the same as the fans.

[Niall_Quinn]

Meh better than Prince Andrew using royal privilege to avoid prosecution for arms dealing

And the other stuff.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There's obviously some truth in that, but do you think the fact we're nowhere these days affects your interest in those matches as well, if we were hovering around the top and those matches actually could make a different to us winning the title do you not think they would be more interesting to watch.

Right now I'm the same, not bothered about the big matches, they're insignificant though, when we use to be in the title hunt I use to like to watch them to hopefully get to see a result that was good for us, or to see how good are competitors were, it's now irrelevant.

Not really because the same extends to foreign leagues

Used to love El Grande Classico now meh!

And don’t even get me started on Italian football, used to fucking love that league

Like I say I don’t absolve Wenger of blame for my lack of love for football, but it’s not going to be greatly rekindled when he goes.

Too many over hyped average players, the football is too slow and ponderous and it feels like their are fewer and fewer absolutely top sides

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And the other stuff.

:haha:

How could I have forgotten?

Oh that’s right....I was paid

[GP]

And the other stuff.

Prince Andrew is a paedophile.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Prince Andrew is a paedophile.

Frankly he’d be in good company on this board

[Cripps]

Kane confirmed fit for us :doh:

:rose:

[Niall_Quinn]

'I think they are a good side but they are not an unstoppable side,' Wenger told beIN Sports. 'The referee had an absolutely atrocious input into the result of the game.

'We conceded a penalty that was not a penalty and an offside goal that was an offside goal. [Sterling] used the naivety of the referee in a very positive way.

'That's why I said the referees don't work, they don't do their homework. I said he used the fact he was in front of our defender to dive and he dived. In a few years he'll say that as well. In the heat of the moment he'll deny it.'

Wenger also suggested the clash at the Etihad Stadium was far closer than the end result, citing 'expected goals' statistics.

He added: 'If you look at the expected goals, it was 0.7 for them and 0.6 for us, it was a very tight game, they created very little, had very little number of shots on target, one more than us, that's all.'

Numbers provided by Opta revealed, however, that Arsenal's expected goals stood at 0.31, while City's was 1.83.

Cock.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Expected goals. :haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Expected goals. :haha:

It’s that fucking data analytics system that the soppy old goat has made his bible

Expected goals carries about as much weight as asking a squid to predict football matches based on what box it takes its good from.

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s that fucking data analytics system that the soppy old goat has made his bible

Expected goals carries about as much weight as asking a squid to predict football matches based on what box it takes its good from.

At least he finally recognises expected goals. The way he sets up our defence, what else does he expect?

[Niall_Quinn]

Maybe if he started our main striker we could expect some goals at the other end too. Poor bastard has scored twice as many as anyone in the squad and the only expectation in his case is being yanked before the 90 are up, or not started at all. It really is one of the strangest sagas I have witnessed in football, and in Wenger's later years we've been treated to a lot of weird shit.

[Marc Overmars]

What the flying fuck are expected goals?

What a loser, hurry up and do one.

[Niall_Quinn]

What the flying fuck are expected goals?

What a loser, hurry up and do one.

Expected goals:

Association Football terminology. Specific to Arsenal Football Club. Predictive measure of the number of goals conceded per match when deploying Ramsey and Xhaka as a midfield pairing.

[Penguin]

The man will do anything to claim moral victory. He knows he can't beat a Guardiola team in possession so he has to invent a new meaningless stat to show how great we are. Because obviously the expected goals are more important than actual goals. Everyone knows that.

The real joke is that we didn't even beat City in that meaningless stat :haha:

Look everyone we're 0.1 away from them! :bow:

[Letters]

What the flying fuck are expected goals?

What a loser, hurry up and do one.


'Expected goals' is a statistic used to work out how many goals should be scored in a match, with every shot taken given an 'expected goal' value based on the difficulty of the attempt.

Based on a number of factors including distance from goal, type of shot and number of defenders, the 'expected goal' value reveals the likelihood a specific shot will end in a goal; the higher the value, the more likely a goal should be scored from that shot
The 'expected goal' value of every shot in a game is used to calculate the 'expected goals' (xG) of a match

At this rate we'll be Expected champions :trophy:

[Niall_Quinn]

The man will do anything to claim moral victory. He knows he can't beat a Guardiola team in possession so he has to invent a new meaningless stat to show how great we are. Because obviously the expected goals are more important than actual goals. Everyone knows that.

The real joke is that we didn't even beat City in that meaningless stat :haha:

Look everyone we're 0.1 away from them! :bow:

Not according to OPTA. We got an even bigger thrashing according to this new stat. Fake news fail. I wonder if somebody can check back to see if we have won the title in the last decade based on expected goals? Maybe we have. Maybe that's what he got the pay rise for. Maybe that's what Ivan meant when he said we've been giving our rivals a good kicking. Maybe we don't even need to play the games any more? If we already know what to expect.

Of course the fans have known what to expect for a long time now.

We are through the looking glass with Wenger. Wenger Wonderland indeed.

[Letters]

Not according to OPTA. We got an even bigger thrashing according to this new stat.
Maybe he meant Expected expected goals.

[Niall_Quinn]

Maybe he meant Expected expected goals.

Above my pay grade. Let the maestro work it all out and then announce whatever triumphs emerge.

[GP]

If Wenger isn't careful some people might begin to turn against him.

[Niall_Quinn]

If Wenger isn't careful some people might begin to turn against him.

Or launch a polite banner campaign.

[GP]

Or launch a polite banner campaign.

Steady.

[Power n Glory]

Or launch a polite banner campaign.

I know the perfect guy for the job.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dUpheH9JYe4/TreYASRpiwI/AAAAAAAANC0/pN6bSmGsr1U/s1600/hippie%2Brimmer.jpg

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I know the perfect guy for the job.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dUpheH9JYe4/TreYASRpiwI/AAAAAAAANC0/pN6bSmGsr1U/s1600/hippie%2Brimmer.jpg

Partially senile French managers? No thanks!