Match Reaction: Arsenal 3-2 Southampton

[Master Splinter]

Welbz :haha: :haha:.

Welbz :bow: :bow:.

WUMger was determined to halt our winning run and destroy all momentum once and for all, but unfortunately for him Iwobi and Welbeck decided to do some things right in the final third for once.

Iwobi was actually really good and seemed to step up today. Welbz was Welbz. Some stuff bounced off him and crept into the net twice but he also had time to miss when even a trademark slip would have helped the ball in.

Considering WUMger's game-ruining objectives, I'm sure he sent Wilshere on with instructions to troll everyone.

Aubameyang is top, top, top quality. He's always on the move. He's sharper than anyone in our team in the way takes up positions where he can be dangerous rather than occupying the same spaces as others. He'd score an absolute shitload if we became a genuine team again.


Hughes :wave:.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Some well taken goals and for all of Welbeck being Welbeck with that horrible miss, he did play a part in all three goals so credit to him. Aubameyang is amazing and it's great having a striker that can finish most of these half chances we create. Haven't seen that since RVP days.

Thought Nelson was largely invisible and he missed a great opportunity to claim more game time, especially playing in his preferred position.

However the big negative is that our defending and ability to control the game is laughly amateurish. It was pathetic on Thursday despite the scoreline and still was that today. They were running straight through as and creating chances at will - any half decent team will score a hatful against us - Southampton scored two and could have had more. There's just zero organisation or setup for off-the-ball play and it makes you wonder what the hell Wenger does in training.

tl;dr - we basically can win the Europa League and the PL just as long as the other team don't try to actually attempt to score against us. :lol::lol:


Jack :doh:

Another stinker. Looked like he was playing just after being told that he wouldn't get a new contract offer. Gave the ball away often and his shithousery resulted in the Elneny red card. What a twat. Needs to fuck off unless he's willing to accept a relegated status within the squad.



Oh yeah fuck off Hughes :haha:

Fuck off Southampton :haha:

Current bottom three to be the three that go down pls :pray:

[Letters]

Wenger :bow:

Are you not entertained? #Gladiator

[Penguin]

Our defending though... :lol:

Mustafi is a moron. Their first goal was a bog standard ball across the six yard box - all he had to do was make sure he got there first and clear it. Simple. Instead he stands on the spot and lets Shane Long get in front of him, and then he even has the gall to stare at Cech and throw up his arms as if is was his fault.

I repeat, Mustafi is a moron.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Oh yeah I forgot to slag off Mustafi in my tl;dr.

What a fucking gimp. :doh:


Absolute clownshow at the back for the first goal and this coming hot of the heels of his game against City in the final. He seems like a terrible defender ( 35 million :haha:) though I'm still slightly hesitant to fully write him off because it could just be our defensive coaching/system/competency (or lack thereof it) at play. Koscienly is the only CB that's looked half decent for us in the past decade.

At any rate give that Kos' legs have gone, BFG is retiring and neither Chambers/Holding are ready yet, it's painfully worrying what the future holds for our Central Defence. Mustafi is the only established starter and that's saying something.

[Globalgunner]

In fairness to Mustafi. (Sami Zayn) He has a tough wrestling match this afternoon, so his mind is no doubt elsewhere. Wumger should not have selected him.

[Goonermerree]

Oh yeah I forgot to slag off Mustafi in my tl;dr.

What a fucking gimp. :doh:


Absolute clownshow at the back for the first goal and this coming hot of the heels of his game against City in the final. He seems like a terrible defender ( 35 million :haha:) though I'm still slightly hesitant to fully write him off because it could just be our defensive coaching/system/competency (or lack thereof it) at play. Koscienly is the only CB that's looked half decent for us in the past decade.

At any rate give that Kos' legs have gone, BFG is retiring and neither Chambers/Holding are ready yet, it's painfully worrying what the future holds for our Central Defence. Mustafi is the only established starter and that's saying something.
I don't think either of them are good enough for what we expect/want at Arsenal.

[Mac76]

Thought Nelson was largely invisible and he missed a great opportunity to claim more game time, especially playing in his preferred position.


yes agree, very disappointing

for the U23s he's been prepared to take players on and use his pace but i'm guessing he's been Wengerised into passing straight away, usually backwards or sideways

my guess is he's trying to play it safe but that doesn't make much impact - he needs to go for it

TBF it probably didn't help that the club itself made such a fuss about it being his first league start, they should have shut up and just let him get on with it

[Mac76]

I don't think either of them are god enough for what we expect/want at Arsenal.

yes, we do want gods here, not just ordinary mortal players :D

but i thin particulary Holding could turn out well and i think Chambers has come on too - but we need a senior pro at the back to replace Kos who i still really rate, but is getting creaky and having some bad games of late

[Globalgunner]

Whats Wengers excuse for the half empty stands today? Success fatigue?

Kudos to those who have stayed away and kept away.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Easter all year round. :bow:

[Goonermerree]

yes, we do want gods here, not just ordinary mortal players :D

but i thin particulary Holding could turn out well and i think Chambers has come on too - but we need a senior pro at the back to replace Kos who i still really rate, but is getting creaky and having some bad games of late

You need to put weight on then!

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Whats Wengers excuse for the half empty stands today? Success fatigue?

Kudos to those who have stayed away and kept away.

I genuinely don't think most are staying away as some sort of protest....it is plainly because there is literally nothing to play for.

Mustafi is an idiot and remains an idiot and I lost faith in him completely some time ago. Any temporary show of competence does not get over the fact he is not the requisite quality. The fact he frequently turns around and blames somebody else shows both his arrogance and lack of intelligence. Xhaka isn't making his customary mistake at moment but he as far as im concerned is also a complete misfit.

Nelson needs to work on his team play and overall game considerably, which is why I haven't been as bothered as some have by not seeing him so often. Very highly talented from an individual point of view, but he really needs to see and read the game much better.

Having said that, I'm obviously happy we won and thought it was going to be one of those days for while....one of those days that has somewhat become just any other day this season.

[Özim]

Wenger praising Welbecks' mental strength for being utter rubbish and coming back and scoring two goals in one game, despite being an absolute talentless footballer :good:

#theartofmissingsitters
#clueless
#bambionice
#onegamewonder

[Niall_Quinn]

Out of the starters today Aubameyang and Cech are worth keeping - the rest are beyond hope. They've forgotten how to execute even the basics of the game. It's an insult to call Xhaka and Elneny midfielders. A new role needs to be invented for them. The masters of marking empty spaces and defending from 10 yards behind the play. Literally pointless having them on the pitch as we effectively play with no midfield when they are selected. And Jack's decided he wants to be part of the same club.

Yes, of course, they've been Wengered. But even Wenger can't be telling them to give away simple 5 yard passes, or watch the opposition run straight past them unhindered.

And that bloke Wenger. What the fucking fuck? You know, there are still some fans who claim he's not the worst manager in the game, the most bizarre incompetent imaginable. Even the monkey Hughes can do the simple stuff like bring an extra striker on to recover a game. And there was Wenger, bringing our on form striker off because... why? What possible reason? It's incomprehensible. No other manager in the world is so illogical, irrational and fundamentally fucking useless. Worse than useless because we'd be far better off with no manager at all.

We should have stomped all over Hughes' pub team today. But we conspired in every way to make that an even game. We might as well put the players in sacks and give them spoons and eggs, that's how badly Wenger's input hampers this team.

If we want to win the Europa he needs to be put in a sack himself and thrown off a bridge.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I can honestly see why both Ferguson & Wenger love Welbeck. He's 80% towards being a top world class striker in the mould of Aubameyang - he's got the athleticism, the striker's instinct, intelligence and the hard work to really flourish but he lacks the final 20% of composure in front of goal & ruthlessness.


Sadly at the age he is at now & injury record, that 20% won't ever come. Still, I think with some better coaching & structure under a new manager he could do a Son type role for us - a disciplined hard runner who can chip in with a decent goal return so I honestly wouldn't be too aghast at him signing a new contract with us.

[Mac76]

We should have stomped all over Hughes' pub team today. But we conspired in every way to make that an even game.


totally right - embarrassing really - a bit like the number of chances we gave CSKA the other night

[GP]

We've won the last 6 in all comps.

Wenger :bow:

New contract?

[Marc Overmars]

We've won the last 6 in all comps.

Wenger :bow:

New contract?

No.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Manager for life.

[Niall_Quinn]

Manager for life.

Yes, so far.

[Letters]

Out of the starters today Aubameyang and Cech are worth keeping - the rest are beyond hope. They've forgotten how to execute even the basics of the game. It's an insult to call Xhaka and Elneny midfielders. A new role needs to be invented for them. The masters of marking empty spaces and defending from 10 yards behind the play. Literally pointless having them on the pitch as we effectively play with no midfield when they are selected. And Jack's decided he wants to be part of the same club.

Yes, of course, they've been Wengered. But even Wenger can't be telling them to give away simple 5 yard passes, or watch the opposition run straight past them unhindered.

And that bloke Wenger. What the fucking fuck? You know, there are still some fans who claim he's not the worst manager in the game, the most bizarre incompetent imaginable. Even the monkey Hughes can do the simple stuff like bring an extra striker on to recover a game. And there was Wenger, bringing our on form striker off because... why? What possible reason? It's incomprehensible. No other manager in the world is so illogical, irrational and fundamentally fucking useless. Worse than useless because we'd be far better off with no manager at all.

We should have stomped all over Hughes' pub team today. But we conspired in every way to make that an even game. We might as well put the players in sacks and give them spoons and eggs, that's how badly Wenger's input hampers this team.

If we want to win the Europa he needs to be put in a sack himself and thrown off a bridge.

All you do.
All you do.
All you do is fucking moan.
All you do is fucking moan.

[Niall_Quinn]

All you do.
All you do.
All you do is fucking moan.
All you do is fucking moan.

And you cultists, all you do is look at the last result against a relegation struggler or pub outfit in the Loser Cup and come up with crazy statements like we're not bad in attack. Maybe you didn't watch the game, maybe you didn't see Welbeck, maybe you didn't see Laca stuck on the bench or watch as the old fool of a fraud we have in charge subbed out our on form striker. Or maybe this is all good enough for you. Maybe you've embraced being second rate. Or maybe you have a goldfish memory and can't recall you've seen all this before, so many times.

Ten years into this shit show - yes indeed, Wenger out. And anyone who isn't saying that supports Arsene FC rather than Arsenal FC.

[Niall_Quinn]

A statement from Wenger after the match:


‘We have an offensive team,’ he said. ‘It means defenders are not always in best conditions to defend.’

Incredible. Unless you are an Arsenal fan who knows painfully well how Wenger "manages" the defence.

[Letters]

And anyone who isn't saying that supports Arsene FC rather than Arsenal FC.
Fun fact: It's possible to say that and not moan about
Every.
Single.
Thing.

We lose, you moan,
We win, you moan.
The games are boring, you moan.
The games are exciting, you moan.
We can't score for toffees, you moan.
We score loads of goals, you moan.

Always look on the dull side of life...

No, I didn't see the game yesterday. I did see the CSKA game though and we were brilliant going forward. Complete mess at the back of course but I've come to expect that.
We ARE good going forward, and it's obvious why Laca was on the bench yesterday when we have the CSKA game on Thursday and Aubameyang is cup tied for that.
Overall I'd agree Wenger's management of Laca is...strange, to say the least. But yesterday it was clearly the right thing to do to stick him on the bench.

[Mac76]

You need to put weight on then!

haha - moral of the story - never take the p*ss out of a typo without checking your own spelling VERY carefully...:d

[Mac76]

it's obvious why Laca was on the bench yesterday when we have the CSKA game on Thursday and Aubameyang is cup tied for that.
Overall I'd agree Wenger's management of Laca is...strange, to say the least. But yesterday it was clearly the right thing to do to stick him on the bench.

but then why take Auba off when he didn't have another game for a week and was playing well, to bring on Laca, who will travel and play on Thursday and can't afford to pick up a strain or other injury?

[Letters]

but then why take Auba off when he didn't have another game for a week and was playing well, to bring on Laca, who will travel and play on Thursday and can't afford to pick up a strain or other injury?

Well, true. I guess he thought a 20 minute run out was not a huge risk and keeps him little bit sharp. You can argue that one either way.
I don't have a problem with him starting on the bench though.

[Niall_Quinn]

but then why take Auba off when he didn't have another game for a week and was playing well, to bring on Laca, who will travel and play on Thursday and can't afford to pick up a strain or other injury?

Because the bloke's off his trolley. Nothing he does makes any sense. It's like he does the opposite of what's logical in some attempt to make out he's operating on another level, a master in his own mind who sees things mere mortals can't.

He's been whinging about the fixture schedule again. Even though we had a couple of weeks off recently. Our players should be sharp as hell, but they are heavy legged according to Wenger. Supposedly it's a real challenge for professional sportsmen to play twice a week, even though all successful teams have been doing it for years.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fun fact: It's possible to say that and not moan about
Every.
Single.
Thing.

We lose, you moan,
We win, you moan.
The games are boring, you moan.
The games are exciting, you moan.
We can't score for toffees, you moan.
We score loads of goals, you moan.

Always look on the dull side of life...

No, I didn't see the game yesterday. I did see the CSKA game though and we were brilliant going forward. Complete mess at the back of course but I've come to expect that.
We ARE good going forward, and it's obvious why Laca was on the bench yesterday when we have the CSKA game on Thursday and Aubameyang is cup tied for that.
Overall I'd agree Wenger's management of Laca is...strange, to say the least. But yesterday it was clearly the right thing to do to stick him on the bench.

I said Auba was class.

I said everything else from yesterday was shit.

That's a very accurate assessment. Which bit do you disagree with?

We are so beyond looking at individual games now as any sort of indicator for the future. There's only ONE issue in play here and we all know what it is. That's the issue I focus on. I couldn't give a toss if our B team has struggled to a hack and punt win against the latest relegation strugglers we've faced. The result tells us nothing we didn't already know. Stoke, Watford, some Russian team that would probably be a relegation candidate too in the PL. So what?

That's what Wenger wants, isn't it? Forget the big picture and cheer like an idiot because we beat up some soon to be Championship team. Forget the big picture and take one game at a time because, let's just say some amazing fluke occurs and we can beat what will be two decent teams to win the EL. Then, with our short term memory established we can say we're in good shape, right? And we know what comes after that.

No, sorry. I won't be buying into your latest offer today. I'll stick with the big picture thanks.

[Özim]

Great win to carry on our min unbeaten run against pub sides at a time there's nothing to play for (optimal time to perform).

Got to give Wenger credit, when the going gets tough we go missing, but when it doesn't matter we're always there or thereabouts.

Special mention for Welbeck, been utter rubbish ever since he arrived, but todays' performance completes his transformation from being rubbish to being truly world class, again credit to Wenger, he's got the best out of him and turned him into a world class performer in 1 game out of 50 amazing.

Re Aubameyang, again credit to Wenger for taking him off, obviously he can't play in the Europa but it's important to keep him fresh for the crucial league games so that we can carry on our meaningless mini unbeaten run until the end of the season, taking off your best forward was really a stroke of genius to be honest.

Long may the mickey mouse run unbeaten run continue, hopefully Wenger will get his new richly deserved contract in the summer after delivering when it really doesn't matter anymore, hard to fault the guy.

In Wenger we trust, we don't know how lucky we are.

[Letters]

:lol: Who are you and what have you done with Zim?

[Letters]

I said Auba was class.

I said everything else from yesterday was shit.

That's a very accurate assessment. Which bit do you disagree with?

I admittedly didn't see the game - have recorded the highlights so will have a look later.
I am sceptical that EVERYTHING else was shit though.
You said that him and Cech are the only two players worth keeping from the starting XI.
Again, I don't think that is true.
We've had this conversation before a few times, you seem to swing wildly between "we need a couple of new players" (which I agree with) and "we need a massive clear out" (which I don't).
I don't think our squad is that bad, our defence is suspect but I don't know if that is the players or the coaching. Bit of both, maybe but I lean towards the latter as the bigger issue.


We are so beyond looking at individual games now as any sort of indicator for the future. There's only ONE issue in play here and we all know what it is. That's the issue I focus on. I couldn't give a toss if our B team has struggled to a hack and punt win against the latest relegation strugglers we've faced. The result tells us nothing we didn't already know
OK. But this is the match reaction thread. If you don't care about then fine. Don't post then.
Yes, there are bigger issues but we know that, what's the point is banging on about it after every game?

I don't think EVERYTHING about the club is wrong, although a lot is.
I don't think EVERYTHING Wenger does is wrong, although a lot is.

I don't know what Wenger wants - I think he probably wants the club to be a success on the pitch. There is no reason why he wouldn't want that. I don't think he's capable of delivering that - or not at the level we've come to expect.
I don't think many people think that winning the Europa League would make everything right again, as I've said I'd like us to win it and Wenger leave, I don't think either will happen.

You don't have to cheer like an idiot but you don't have to moan like one either. You seem to struggle with anything other than an extreme opinion in either direction.

[Goonermerree]

haha - moral of the story - never take the p*ss out of a typo without checking your own spelling VERY carefully...:d

:d ha, ha.

[Letters]

Seen the highlights. :lol:
Wow! Our defence! :lol: :ilt:

[Chippy]

Seen the highlights. :lol:
Wow! Our defence! :lol: :ilt:

Sol Campbell was the only decent defender Wumger ever signed. We can all create the list of dog shit he has signed in order to replace the best back 5 we have ever had. Ray Parlour has a great story about the Steponovs signing. He thought it was actually a wind up that we had signed him.
Also very sad to see so many empty seats. However, you cannot blame people not bothering to watch that shite.

[GP]

Sol Campbell was the only decent defender Wumger ever signed.

:lol: no

[Chippy]

:lol: no

Who then?

[GP]

Who then?

Koscielny, for a start. Sagna. Lauren.

[Chippy]

Koscielny, for a start. Sagna. Lauren.

Forgive me. I meant central defenders.
You will need to do better than Kos. Very average.

[Özim]

Calamity Kos :lol:

[Letters]

Merts did win the World Cup, you know! :lol:
Past his best when we got him but he still did a decent job for a while.

[Chippy]

Merts did win the World Cup, you know! :lol:
Past his best when we got him but he still did a decent job for a while.

Now very, very crap:)

[Özim]

Not being funny but Mertersacker has never been that good, never rated the guy, moves like a barge, not that good in the air, excels at nothing, very overrated IMO.

I kinda agree, Campbell was the only real standout CB he's ever signed, the others he inherited, some have been not bad but they all pretty much had a mistake in them, Koscielny could be good and then he'd make a calamitous mistake leading to a goal.

Campbell was the last true top class CB IMO.

[GP]

Forgive me. I meant central defenders.
You will need to do better than Kos. Very average.

:lol: no

[Özim]

Sol Campbell was the only decent defender Wumger ever signed. We can all create the list of dog shit he has signed in order to replace the best back 5 we have ever had. Ray Parlour has a great story about the Steponovs signing. He thought it was actually a wind up that we had signed him.
Also very sad to see so many empty seats. However, you cannot blame people not bothering to watch that shite.

Don't forget Silvestre, a reject from Man U some pretended was a good signing when we signed him :lol:

The list of bad defenders is endless, he's never had a clue about defending tbh, that's part of the problem.

[Letters]

Not being funny but Mertersacker has never been that good.
Yes. Over a hundred caps for Germany and won a World Cup
Stop being ridiculous.

We certainly didn't get his best years although he played a big part in us winning the FA Cup last year with an exceptional performance in the final.
Reckon he'll be a good defensive coach if Wenger lets him be one.

[Özim]

Yes. Over a hundred caps for Germany and won a World Cup
Stop being ridiculous.

We certainly didn't get his best years although he played a big part in us winning the FA Cup last year with an exceptional performance in the final.
Reckon he'll be a good defensive coach if Wenger lets him be one.

Remember when Klinsmann took over and Mertersacker alongisde Metzerlder were a distaster and both got slaughtered by pundits for their performances, Germany did well in that tournament and got to the semis but the centre of defence was their weakness, he wasn't much kop for Werder Bremen either.

Lowe has been in charge all the time since then and the guy for some reason had a soft spot for him, in the same way Deschamps has a soft spot for Giroud, sometimes managers just like certain players for some unknown reason.

The odd decent performance here and there doesn't make a top player, just look at Welbeck, played well the other day but by all intents and purposes is a load of rubbish.

Our defence has been weak since 2006 tbh.

[Globalgunner]

Yes. Over a hundred caps for Germany and won a World Cup
Stop being ridiculous.

We certainly didn't get his best years although he played a big part in us winning the FA Cup last year with an exceptional performance in the final.
Reckon he'll be a good defensive coach if Wenger lets him be one.

Winning a world cup is not a certain measure of quality. Lots of average players have medals, Meetesacker has been no more than average his whole life. Wenger is blind when it comes to CBs and defence as a whole. Kos is just the best of a bad bunch. Thats not saying much. Campbell was our last quality CB

[Power n Glory]

Yes. Over a hundred caps for Germany and won a World Cup
Stop being ridiculous.

We certainly didn't get his best years although he played a big part in us winning the FA Cup last year with an exceptional performance in the final.
Reckon he'll be a good defensive coach if Wenger lets him be one.

Not many people rate Merts. He gets a lot of shit on here but I agree with you on this one. I'm not going off the World Cup, just off the difference I've seen him make to the Arsenal team.

People forget how crap Kosienly was in his first season for us. Merts joining the team is what gave us some structure and helped get the best of Kosienly. I'd even argue that if we'd have kept Gabriel and played him alongside Merts we'd have seen more consistent solid performances from Gabriel. Same goes for Mustafi if he had arrived earlier at Merts peak.

Our defence has never been perfect but when Merts was at his best for us, we could keep clean sheets and grind out results.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is shit and destroys defenders. That's the primary concern. Every player will improve once we get shot of that fuck.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I rated Per and even think there is an argument that his best years were for us.

[Niall_Quinn]

I rated Per and even think there is an argument that his best years were for us.

Slow of body, slightly faster of brain, on the whole - dog shit. That would be the fairest summary. Was it all his fault? Certainly no. We all know who the main culprit is.

[Goonermerree]

Don't forget Silvestre, a reject from Man U some pretended was a good signing when we signed him :lol:

The list of bad defenders is endless, he's never had a clue about defending tbh, that's part of the problem.

That signing riled me so much. Wenger had a smug air about him not letting anyone know who it was, 'He is experienced' I remembered him saying euphemism for old, United, has-been, reject. I thought we were getting someone good!

[Goonermerree]

Merts did win the World Cup, you know! :lol:
Past his best when we got him but he still did a decent job for a while.

He came for one minute in extra time in the final. Just saying!!!

[Letters]

He came for one minute in extra time in the final. Just saying!!!

Come on. He played a big part in Germany's games throughout the tournament.

http://www.uefa.com/worldcup/season=2014/teams/player=97575/index.html

The more general point is he got a load of caps for one of the best international sides around while he was playing - they won one world cup, the previous 2 they lost in the semi-finals.
You don't do that if you're not any good. He wasn't the paciest but his reading of the game was fantastic and that made up for it.

[Globalgunner]

Old has been French defenders are Wengers speciality. Silvestre, Squillaci even Gallas was on the decline when we got him. Wenger as usual thinks he knows best. He was a defender (average) in his own time. So thinks he can spot a good one. Epic fail mostly. and when he buys up and coming talent. He ruins them within 2 seasons with his clueless coaching. His ego wont allow him to delegate this to people who actually know how to defend. like Bould, Keown. Instead he comes out with gems like "we are an offensive team, so sometimes our defending can be suspect". Congealed incompetence, masquerading as wisdom.

[Özim]

Slow of body, slightly faster of brain, on the whole - dog shit. That would be the fairest summary. Was it all his fault? Certainly no. We all know who the main culprit is.

:lol: Spot on, average defender.

[Özim]

Old has been French defenders are Wengers speciality. Silvestre, Squillaci even Gallas was on the decline when we got him. Wenger as usual thinks he knows best. He was a defender (average) in his own time. So thinks he can spot a good one. Epic fail mostly. and when he buys up and coming talent. He ruins them within 2 seasons with his clueless coaching. His ego wont allow him to delegate this to people who actually know how to defend. like Bould, Keown. Instead he comes out with gems like "we are an offensive team, so sometimes our defending can be suspect". Congealed incompetence, masquerading as wisdom.

He was osbessed with the French league, the guy would pick up nobodies because he loved that league and they were cheap, never looked at quality despite his claims of only signings "super super quality" players, guys a joke, couldn't defend a 2 inch goal.

He' always thought that he could beat anyone by attacking, trouble is once his generals on the field were sold off he was left with a bunch of players who just looked at each other in confusion when things weren't gong their way, his contempt for leaders and players with a bit of fight is ridiculous, everyone laughs at us and how we're soft, players from other teams even come out and say it and they guy still won't sign anyone who can tackle.

The whole thing is an very embarrassing failed exercise.

[Özim]

Come on. He played a big part in Germany's games throughout the tournament.

http://www.uefa.com/worldcup/season=2014/teams/player=97575/index.html

The more general point is he got a load of caps for one of the best international sides around while he was playing - they won one world cup, the previous 2 they lost in the semi-finals.
You don't do that if you're not any good. He wasn't the paciest but his reading of the game was fantastic and that made up for it.

Those German sides made up for his defficiencies rather than him helping them succeed, an average defender who got lucky and got to play in one of the most talented sides around, good thing his CB partner was rather better, if you're that good you can carry the odd passenger most of the time.

[Letters]

:sleep:

[selassie]

A statement from Wenger after the match:

We have an offensive team,’ he said. ‘It means defenders are not always in best conditions to defend.’

Incredible. Unless you are an Arsenal fan who knows painfully well how Wenger "manages" the defence.

I don't know why he doesn't just admit he hates defenders and keepers. To be brutally honest he may as well pick a team full of offensive players and scrap the defence and keeper entirely...what use are they anyway?

[selassie]

Not being funny but Mertersacker has never been that good, never rated the guy, moves like a barge, not that good in the air, excels at nothing, very overrated IMO.

I kinda agree, Campbell was the only real standout CB he's ever signed, the others he inherited, some have been not bad but they all pretty much had a mistake in them, Koscielny could be good and then he'd make a calamitous mistake leading to a goal.

Campbell was the last true top class CB IMO.

Yep I agree with this, we signed Campbell when he was pretty much Elite and could hold a defence together himself so he knew actually what to do and when to do it. Moreover, at the time we still had Adams and Keown so our options were experienced and elite.

Since then our Defensive signings have been pretty poor IMO with the exception of Gallas who was a very good defender in his day. He was still top class when he joined us but he was never a leader and had a very questionable mentality. He actually did OK here, at times he was brilliant...other times he fell apart a bit mentally, but his performances were genuinely of a high standard.

Since then we have pretty much signed Duds...Kos and Sagna excluded but neither of them ever reached top class status and were both prone to mistakes.

The defence now is a mess as is central midfield.

P.S. The less said about the Keepers the better...have we ever actually signed a top class keeper under Wenger's reign? No is the answer.

[Letters]

P.S. The less said about the Keepers the better...have we ever actually signed a top class keeper under Wenger's reign? No is the answer.
:blink: You don't regard Cech as top class?
Lehman had his moments too, big part of getting us to the CL Final in 2006

[Özim]

I think Cech was never the same after his head injury IMO, still a decent keeper but not a top top keeper anymore, when we signed him he was way past his best, before his injury at Chelsea he was unbelievable, we always seem to sign players like this when they are well past their prime TBH, top clubs don't give away their best players to other top clubs in the same league (except for us!).

As for Lehmann, decnt keeper no doubt and on his day could be very good, but never top top bracket like Seaman or even his countryman Kahn who kept him out of the German team for years.

[Letters]

I don't disagree we've not had anyone as good since Seaman, but I honestly think he was one of the GOAT when it comes to 'keepers so that's maybe as unfair as comparing strikers to Henry.

[selassie]

:blink: You don't regard Cech as top class?
Lehman had his moments too, big part of getting us to the CL Final in 2006

Cech was on the slide when we signed him. He was and is still to a degree on occasions a decent keeper, but he was definitely on the way down.

Lehmann wasn't ever a top class keeper.

My point is that we never ever go for the best realistic option, there is always an element of opportunism or making do with a budget version.

[Özim]

Maybe but then you look at our rivals who have Loris, Courtois, De Gea and Ederson, only Liverpool are struggling keeper wise and are known to be in the market and you realise that keeper wise they have top top keepers whereas we have an ageing guy who use to be very very good and is now not at that level anymore.

We really need a top class keeper, they save you quite a few points and steady your defence a lot of the time, for years now we haven't had and to be honest never look for one, Oblak at Atletico is top class but we'd never pay the money for him, that's what I mean you can get top keepers but you have to be willing to pay for them, we're not so we never get one.

[Özim]

Cech was on the slide when we signed him. He was and is still to a degree on occasions a decent keeper, but he was definitely on the way down.

Lehmann wasn't ever a top class keeper.

My point is that we never ever go for the best realistic option, there is always an element of opportunism or making do with a budget version.

Yeah I totally agree, that's the issue, we look at price first rather than quality first, just look at some the keepers we've signed over the years, Almunia, Shaaban, Warmuz, Fabianski, Poom (when he was past it), Mannone, Cech, Ospina, Wright, Lehmann.

The reality is we haven't signed one top top class keeper and all of them were relatively cheap (Wright was highly rated when we signed him but that didn't work out), compare that to other top clubs and it's very different, a top keeper plays for years at the top level, we seem to prefer to pay less and chop and change.

The guys we're being linked with now are the same, cheaper options who aren't proven, so far that's not worked out well, you either haveot be very lucky to find a top keeper who isn't top class already, or have a brilliant scouting team like Atletico who seem to find top players that aren't that well known all the time.

[selassie]

Yeah I totally agree, that's the issue, we look at price first rather than quality first, just look at some the keepers we've signed over the years, Almunia, Shaaban, Warmuz, Fabianski, Poom (when he was past it), Mannone, Cech, Ospina, Wright, Lehmann.

The reality is we haven't signed one top top class keeper and all of them were relatively cheap (Wright was highly rated when we signed him but that didn't work out), compare that to other top clubs and it's very different, a top keeper plays for years at the top level, we seem to prefer to pay less and chop and change.

The guys we're being linked with now are the same, cheaper options who aren't proven, so far that's not worked out well, you either haveot be very lucky to find a top keeper who isn't top class already, or have a brilliant scouting team like Atletico who seem to find top players that aren't that well known all the time.

Yep, as long as Wenger remains in charge I don't think we will make any significant investments in the defensive areas of the team.

Wenger has neglected that side of the team pretty much his entire tenure...he got away with it in the early days for obvious reasons...but over the last 10 years it's been dud after dud.

What makes things worse is that in recent times when he has spent a bit more than usual in defence and midfield he has got it wrong.

He spent 70million combined on Xhaka and Mustafi, my god...he really did get that wrong.

[Özim]

Yep, as long as Wenger remains in charge I don't think we will make any significant investments in the defensive areas of the team.

Wenger has neglected that side of the team pretty much his entire tenure...he got away with it in the early days for obvious reasons...but over the last 10 years it's been dud after dud.

What makes things worse is that in recent times when he has spent a bit more than usual in defence and midfield he has got it wrong.

He spent 70million combined on Xhaka and Mustafi, my god...he really did get that wrong.

You're right, thing is it's not that hard to get decet players, you just have to pay for them, pretty much noone would have signed Xhaka and Mustafi, Wenger just loves to find players so he can ve credited for turning them into top players if they do become so, he was 70 million on those when far better options were available, now he's been left with egg on his face, much like with Welbeck who he harped on about the other day after his 1st decent game in months, buy cheap buy twice that's how we should be looking at it.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Wenger just simply doesn't know how to set up a really tight defence. Never has during his entire Arsenal career. Like most things, he seems to let the players sort it out by themselves which is why I don't get the Merts hate; he, Kos, Sol & Kolo (for a while) have been the few defenders that have actually looked for us.

Tbf I don't really think the likes of Klopp or Pep are better and they similarly try and get away with it by just buying really good or competent defendres. But it's far more justified for them as they put all the energies into coaching a fantastic and fluid attack that can destroy any team in the world.

We at the moment have neither. Clown show as usual at the back and not good enough going forward (despite the current batch of goalfests our attack will struggle against better teams I suspect).

[Letters]

I think we're a lot better going forward right now than we have been. Better sides will always make it harder for you but we seem a lot more direct of late.
Complete clown-fest at the back though.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I think we're a lot better going forward right now than we have been. Better sides will always make it harder for you but we seem a lot more direct of late.
Complete clown-fest at the back though.

We've looked slightly better the past few weeks with the recent glut of 3+ goals we've scored but tbf they've been against poor to average teams. Our attacks still isn't close to as lethal as Liverpool's & City's who are capable of cutting apart any team in the world almost at will.

Given our past I'd be wary of coming to any bigger conclusions just yet.

[Letters]

Our attacks still isn't close to as lethal as Liverpool's & City's who are capable of cutting apart any team in the world almost at will.
Agree with that, but it has looked better. And it's worth nothing that we've looked pretty inept against poor to average teams for much of this season, although we were winning at home early season they were often quite narrow wins, we're looking a lot more free-flowing going forward right now.

[Niall_Quinn]

It was hard for the team to get any worse. We bounced off the bottom.

[selassie]

I think we're a lot better going forward right now than we have been. Better sides will always make it harder for you but we seem a lot more direct of late.
Complete clown-fest at the back though.

Aye, we still have a way to go though, sadly I think the current top 4 are all by some distance offensively better than us or at least more efficient, what TEG has said basically.

What concerns me more is that our improvement in attack and it is not a major improvement has completely crippled what was an already brittle defence.

Wenger more or less conceded this the other day with that ridiculous comment he came out with that NQ posted. What is mind boggling is that he doesn't seem to want to rectify it.

[GP]

Elneny's red has been rescinded.

[Letters]

Really?! :lol:

Wow. I mean, it was a bit soft but we never get away with these things.

:dance:

[WMUG]

Genuinely surprised by that, didn't expect it to happen in a million years given that he did actually touch the other guy's face.