Match Reaction: Leicester 3-1 Random Team

[Niall_Quinn]

90 mins to go.

[Niall_Quinn]

When was the last time Le Prof fielded the same eleven in consecutive matches?

2006?

[Letters]

Actually thought we might get something tonight :lol:
Me :pal:

Meh. Whatever. Doesn't make much difference any more. Roll on next season.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It's just embarrassing.

Still not a single sodding away point.

The manager deserves sacking.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

WENGER OUT!

[Marc Overmars]

13 defeats. Over a third of our games lost.

7 away defeats on the spin.

51 goals conceded.

The new manager has a big task in lifting this loser mentality Wenger is leaving us with.

[Letters]

The new manager has a big task in lifting this loser mentality Wenger is leaving us with.
Disagree.

When Fergie left Moyes contrived to take the Champions down to 7th place, they lost 12 games and got 25 fewer points than they had the previous season.
The manager makes a big difference and can do so very quickly. Get the right manager in and it'll make a big difference next year.

[Marc Overmars]

Well that’s the hope, that the new guy can have a positive effect off the bat.

Just how much damage Wenger has done will be seen in time. United are only now beginning to move on from the lull under Moyes and Van Gaal.

[Niall_Quinn]

So predictable at the end of last season, where this guy would take us. Thank fuckety fuck he didn't get to see out his contract because one more year and he could have done exponential damage.

[Letters]

Well that’s the hope, that the new guy can have a positive effect off the bat.

Just how much damage Wenger has done will be seen in time. United are only now beginning to move on from the lull under Moyes and Van Gaal.

I think the difference is them winning the title in Fergie's last season was ridiculous with that squad, they massively over-performed.
We are massively under-performing with our squad so I don't think it'll take as much to have a positive impact if we get the right manager.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

We're like the perfect team for teams that need confidence to play against.


Leicester just thrashed by both Palace & Hammers, players already on their holidays and with murmurings of discontent towards the manager ..... not a problem you've got Arsenal where you can sort things out. :doh:

[Static]

Did our new defender deserve his red?

[Marc Overmars]

Did our new defender deserve his red?

Close call. Clear foul but Holding may have had it covered as the last man. We’re speculating though, Iheanacho is quick and would have been away.

Sloppy from the Greek kid but he’ll learn. I can say that confidently now knowing he won’t be coached by you know who.

[A Gunner]

Can anyone explain our away form in comparison to home form?

Not about Wenger, just tactically, mentality-wise?

[LDG]

I think the difference is them winning the title in Fergie's last season was ridiculous with that squad, they massively over-performed.
We are massively under-performing with our squad so I don't think it'll take as much to have a positive impact if we get the right manager.

I agree with you :o

[LDG]

Can anyone explain our away form in comparison to home form?

Not about Wenger, just tactically, mentality-wise?

There is no one reason (unless you badge it all up under “Wenger”).

However, it has been said countless times that we set ourselves up to play the same way every game, no matter the opposition.

Logic dictates that a team coming to to The Emirates will be naturally more protective and will sit back a little more. Most of our concessions at home often come from a counter attack where we lose the ball with players committed and no defensive shape...

When our opposition is on their home turf, they’re naturally more positive, being the home sides perogative. If more teams visiting us (not just the big boys) showed more adventure, they might learn to inflict the same sort of damage at our place....which was the worry sign, because that was the next step in our fall frome grace IMO.

[selassie]

I wasn’t surprised we lost and I suspect we will keep our 100% losing record with a defeat at Huddersfield at the weekend.

The new manager really has his work cut out repairing or should I say instilling a “Winning is everything” mentality into these bunch of losers.

[Marc Overmars]

Hopefully we can at least pub something at Huddersfield. This pitiful record needs to do one so we and the new manager can start with a clean slate next season. Don’t want this remnant of Wenger hanging over us all summer.

[Marc Overmars]

I think the difference is them winning the title in Fergie's last season was ridiculous with that squad, they massively over-performed.
We are massively under-performing with our squad so I don't think it'll take as much to have a positive impact if we get the right manager.

For there to be under-performance, there first has to be some kind of good performance to begin with no? I'd like to know on what evidence are we under-performing? It can't be the league because we've finished 5th and 6th now, with this season in particular breaking all sorts of records for being shit. We choked in the League Cup final (why couldn't we raise it again like we did for Chelsea last year?), we froze when presented with a huge opportunity to reach the EL final and we've been soundly beaten by all of the teams above us bar Chelsea who we drew twice with.

Sure we have some decent players who would benefit from a better coach but we haven't been anywhere near the title for a long time and the league performance has got progressively worse. The cup win last year was a minor miracle but if anything that probably suggests we over-performed on the day because everything either side of that final has been atrocious. It was a huge anomaly of a victory.

We probably should be doing better but I think the new manager has a big task on because I don't think this squad has shown enough to suggest it can do better, there have been far more troughs than there have peaks. There are a lot of run of the mill players in this squad who should count themselves lucky to be playing for a club as big as Arsenal.

[Niall_Quinn]

There is no one reason (unless you badge it all up under “Wenger”).

However, it has been said countless times that we set ourselves up to play the same way every game, no matter the opposition.

Logic dictates that a team coming to to The Emirates will be naturally more protective and will sit back a little more. Most of our concessions at home often come from a counter attack where we lose the ball with players committed and no defensive shape...

When our opposition is on their home turf, they’re naturally more positive, being the home sides perogative. If more teams visiting us (not just the big boys) showed more adventure, they might learn to inflict the same sort of damage at our place....which was the worry sign, because that was the next step in our fall frome grace IMO.

Yes. Agreed. Wenger's next trick would be to plunge us into a relegation battle, as improbable as that sounds. Almost as improbable as us losing every single away game in 2018 so far. Every team would be looking at this tail end of the season and salivating at the thought of getting their teeth into us, home or away. The sad truth is easy to see. When teams give us undue credit and respect, which happens when they visit the Emirates, and they allow us to play our silly Wengerball then we win. But if they put even a hint of pressure on us, we fold.

It's not that the players are terrible cowards or powderpuff weaklings. It's the utter nonsense Wenger is demanding of them. A thousand passes. No shots. Nobody in the box when the cross comes in. No defending. Empty flanks where opponents roam free. The extra sideways pass. The extra touch in the box. A nightmarishly pointless vision of football that literally ends up pointless should our intricate insanity be disrupted in even the slightest manner.

Wenger's teams play good football. If they are allowed to. To this day the change from fast, powerful, direct and technical football to pitter patter football by a thousand passes is killing us. Wenger's biggest and most inexplicable mistake of all. Which is why the mad discrepancy between our home and away form can't possibly be explained without talking about Wenger. It's all about him. Arsene FC.

90 more minutes and that ends. It's a miracle.

[Niall_Quinn]

For there to be under-performance, there first has to be some kind of good performance to begin with no? I'd like to know on what evidence are we under-performing? It can't be the league because we've finished 5th and 6th now, with this season in particular breaking all sorts of records for being shit. We choked in the League Cup final (why couldn't we raise it again like we did for Chelsea last year?), we froze when presented with a huge opportunity to reach the EL final and we've been soundly beaten by all of the teams above us bar Chelsea who we drew twice with.

Sure we have some decent players who would benefit from a better coach but we haven't been anywhere near the title for a long time and the league performance has got progressively worse. The cup win last year was a minor miracle but if anything that probably suggests we over-performed on the day because everything either side of that final has been atrocious. That was a huge anomaly of a victory.

We probably should be doing better but I think the new manager has a big task on because I don't think this squad has shown enough to suggest it can do better. There are a lot of run of the mill players in this squad who should count themselves lucky to be playing for a club as big as Arsenal.

The new manager has to first train the players to unlearn everything Wenger "taught" them. Some players will survive the process, others won't. But just a few simple lessons might transform the team, like kicking the ball up the other end of the pitch when defending. Or the striker running into the box when we are attacking down the flanks. The stuff all normal teams do.

[Letters]

For there to be under-performance, there first has to be some kind of good performance to begin with no? I'd like to know on what evidence are we under-performing?
Our home form, basically. It's good enough to challenge, you don't get a home record like that unless you're any good.
I don't think I've ever known a season where the difference between home and away form is this marked. Sort out the away form - and we've never had an away season quite this bad before so we're perfectly capable of doing that - and we should be in and around the top 4.

I don't think we'll be challenging for the title next year but for a top 4 spot, definitely.
We only failed to finish in the top 4 last year by a couple of points, this year has been a car crash but I believe they're capable of better.

The whole premise of #WengerOut is that with this squad we should be doing much better than we are.

[Niall_Quinn]

At home we've beaten:

Leicester
Bournemouth
WBA
Brighton
Swansea
Spuds (only opponent of note)
Huddersfield
Newcastle
Crystal Palace
Everton
Watford
Stoke
Southampton
West Ham
Burnley

All bar one of the key names are missing and many of these teams beat us when we visited their patch.

The record this season is appalling.

[Letters]

You understand that everyone plays the same teams, right?

[Niall_Quinn]

You understand that everyone plays the same teams, right?

Really?

[Xhaka Can’t]

You understand that everyone plays the same teams, right?

That list of results demonstrates pretty clearly how we are doing against our new rivals compared to our old rivals.

[Letters]

That list of results demonstrates pretty clearly how we are doing against our new rivals compared to our old rivals.

Whatever. If we had a similar set of results away from home we'd be in the top 4. You get the same number of points for beating any of the sides.
IF you're pushing for the title then these 6 pointers become important, right now let's focus on getting back in the top 4, our home form is more than good enough to, our away form is pretty much relegation form.
Sort out that discrepancy and we'll start competing again.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Whatever. If we had a similar set of results away from home we'd be in the top 4. You get the same number of points for beating any of the sides.
IF you're pushing for the title then these 6 pointers become important, right now let's focus on getting back in the top 4, our home form is more than good enough to, our away form is pretty much relegation form.
Sort out that discrepancy and we'll start competing again.

If we won more games than City we probably would be top. We just need to sort out that discrepancy

[KSE Comedy Club]

I do agree that this squad is capable of more and we should be higher up the table.

However, we also need to change 2-4 players to help maintain a consistent run and hopefully, a new manager will bring a huge change in mentality, tactics and work ethic.

Letters is right to some extent as most of the players we have, are better than this seasons results would have us all believing.

[LDG]

If we won more games than City we probably would be top. We just need to sort out that discrepancy

Not only that, if we focused more on winning than losing, we'd be higher in the table.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not only that, if we focused more on winning than losing, we'd be higher in the table.

Interesting.

[Letters]

If we won more games than City we probably would be top. We just need to sort out that discrepancy

*sigh*

Think I'll leave WUM and WUMer to it :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

Whatever. If we had a similar set of results away from home we'd be in the top 4. You get the same number of points for beating any of the sides.
IF you're pushing for the title then these 6 pointers become important, right now let's focus on getting back in the top 4, our home form is more than good enough to, our away form is pretty much relegation form.
Sort out that discrepancy and we'll start competing again.

So many years of making the bare minimum the pinnacle of our ambition. So let's do the same thing and see if we get a different result.

What makes you assume the away form is the anomaly, rather than the home form?

We are fucking fortunate Wenger didn't get the extra year.

[Niall_Quinn]

*sigh*

Think I'll leave WUM and WUMer to it :good:

I've noticed, everyone is a WUM except you.

[Letters]

What makes you assume the away form is the anomaly, rather than the home form?
Interesting. OK, that's a fairly good point.
I guess it's the quality of our squad. I think we're better than our away form suggests.
Well, we definitely are. Our away form is pretty much relegation form, we're clearly not a squad which should be anywhere near the relegation zone.
And in the last two seasons our away form has been significantly better than this year.

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/01-june-2017/away/
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/01-june-2016/away/

Where our home form has been consistently good in other years:

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/01-june-2017/home/
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/01-june-2016/home/

So our home form is a bit better than usual, but there's not a huge gap. Our away form has dropped off a cliff this year, so I see that as the anomaly.
Home and away point split over the last 3 seasons:

40 - 31
45 - 30
47 - 13

It's clearly the 13 which is the significant difference from other seasons.

(Careful, this could just develop into a sensible conversation)

[Xhaka Can’t]

Whatever. If we had a similar set of results away from home we'd be in the top 4. You get the same number of points for beating any of the sides.
IF you're pushing for the title then these 6 pointers become important, right now let's focus on getting back in the top 4, our home form is more than good enough to, our away form is pretty much relegation form.
Sort out that discrepancy and we'll start competing again.

If we had a similar set of results at home as we did away. Where would that leave us?

And had Wenger stayed on, what would be more likely? Our away form improving to match our home form and the resulting glory?

Or would it likely go the other way?

[Niall_Quinn]

Interesting. OK, that's a fairly good point.
I guess it's the quality of our squad. I think we're better than our away form suggests.
Well, we definitely are. Our away form is pretty much relegation form, we're clearly not a squad which should be anywhere near the relegation zone.
And in the last two seasons our away form has been significantly better than this year.

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/01-june-2017/away/
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/01-june-2016/away/

Where our home form has been consistently good in other years:

https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/01-june-2017/home/
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/01-june-2016/home/

So our home form is a bit better than usual, but there's not a huge gap. Our away form has dropped off a cliff this year, so I see that as the anomaly.
Home and away point split over the last 3 seasons:

40 - 31
45 - 30
47 - 13

It's clearly the 13 which is the significant difference from other seasons.

(Careful, this could just develop into a sensible conversation)

The 13 points is anomalous in reference to prior years. But it's future years we are speculating about. Certainly, we have a squad that should be doing much better than this. But they aren't. 7 away losses in a row is almost unbelievable. It represents a complete collapse on the road. Complete. And the manger has done nothing notable to turn the tide. He's pretty much stuck to the same policy of randomly rotating the line-up, playing players out of position, the slow tempo possession game and the catastrophically flawed zonal defensive "system" that has failed like clockwork. We already have a decent theory on why there might be such a divergence in results home and away. On the road our opponents come after us. At home they show us too much respect, probably because they remember what sort of team we used to be rather than see us for what we are now. Weak. With a negative mentality.

I've said it in the past and the evidence strongly favours the idea we win when the opposition suits us. When they mass behind the ball and let us tip and tap it around we generally find a way through against the weaker defences. But when the opposition presses or plays an effective counter attacking game we are almost sure to lose.

The question is, having seen this awful away form and given a summer to analyse the games (if so inclined) what's to say most of the managers in the PL would not reach the easy conclusion it is better to pressure us rather than let us play - home or away?

It's all moot anyway because Wenger is leaving. But, if he was staying and I had to bet, I'd put money on our home form getting worse with the away form improving (because it can't possibly get worse). I'd predict an 8th, 9th maybe 10th place finish with a handful of wins both home and away against the weaker teams. That seems more realistic than suggesting we'd hold up the home form and then significantly improve the away form too. And it all fits in with the evidence of steady decline.

[Letters]

If we had a similar set of results at home as we did away. Where would that leave us?
2nd, which is a damn site better than where we are now.


And had Wenger stayed on, what would be more likely? Our away form improving to match our home form and the resulting glory?
Or would it likely go the other way?

As I've said above I think it's our away form this year which is the real outlier.
Our home form this year is actually better than the last 2 years, our away form is a complete car crash and by a distance the worst we've ever done under Wenger.
I doubt that would be repeated. So I think had he stayed we'd probably be less bad away from home next year, perhaps not quite as good at home and overall we wouldn't be title contenders.
But I've long since been in the Wenger Out camp, I think the Wenger In camp is pretty much one tent with Ty in it these days.
I'm hoping a new manager will push us in the right direction, we've got the squad to compete much better than we have been.

[Mac76]

Hopefully we can at least pub something at Huddersfield. This pitiful record needs to do one so we and the new manager can start with a clean slate next season. Don’t want this remnant of Wenger hanging over us all summer.

Huddersfield will easily do us, they 've drawn against Citeh and Chelski away in their last two games

Arsenal at their ground will be a walk in the park for them

Wenger really couldn't be leaving soon enough

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think Huddersfield will be fucked from those two games. They worked unbelievably hard in both ties with little of the ball and having to cover a lot of ground, chasing, organising and defending.

Both of their points were achieved through heart and hard work. They then cancelled their flight and went back by coach so they could drink beer.

Lots and lots of beer.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think Huddersfield will be fucked from those two games. They worked unbelievably hard in both ties with little of the ball and having to cover a lot of ground, chasing, organising and defending.

Both of their points were achieved through heart and hard work. They then cancelled their flight and went back by coach so they could drink beer.

Lots and lots of beer.

So you're saying we could nick a draw?

[Xhaka Can’t]

So you're saying we could nick a draw?

Steady on!

[Letters]

Would be kinda funny if we lose.
Honestly don’t think it will have any bearing on next season.
Wenger setting records right till the end :bow:

[Globalgunner]

We are an offensive team thats why we cant defend
Im quoting wenger, not espousing true logic

Wenger sees himself as the Pablo Picasso of football. Delivering art is the aim. What if the result looks like the team effort of a dozen dyslexic 10 year olds?

It means you fail to grasp the true essence of beauty.

We dont plan for what happens when we lose the ball. that pretty obvious. Wenger believes our players are so superior that we dont have to defend. When we are surprisingly on the defensive, its panic time. No one knows what to do because we havent trained for it.

So glad he`s leaving

[Marc Overmars]

Off the ball work is the key task facing the new coach IMO. It shouldn't be difficult to form an efficient attack with the forwards we have but getting the team to defend as a unit, cover spaces, press and generally be more tactically aware is going to be difficult. Things they've seldom been trained to do.

[Letters]

Is it though? I mean, I think they're basically good players. Is it really so hard to get them into a defensive unit?
I wouldn't say any of the old back 4 were superstars - don't think there were loads of England caps between them - but they were coached into a good defensive unit.

[Marc Overmars]

I imagine asking these players to change their way of thinking while still maintaining an attacking philosophy is not going to be easy, yes.

I expect our progress next year to be slow. It won’t get any worse than it is now but I don’t think there will be a dramatic upturn in fortunes for us, unless the new guy is a miracle worker.

The competition is very strong now and it will take time to gain a level footing again. Liverpool are constantly improving, Spurs are consistent and Chelsea will no doubt come again as they always do after a down year. The Manchester clubs clearly aren’t going anywhere either, so another year out of the top 4 is plausible but at the very least you’d hope we can be competitive again.

[Bumble]

I imagine asking these players to change their way of thinking while still maintaining an attacking philosophy is not going to be easy, yes.

I expect our progress next year to be slow. It won’t get any worse than it is now but I don’t think there will be a dramatic upturn in fortunes for us, unless the new guy is a miracle worker.

The competition is very strong now and it will take time to gain a level footing again. Liverpool are constantly improving, Spurs are consistent and Chelsea will no doubt come again as they always do after a down year. The Manchester clubs clearly aren’t going anywhere either, so another year out of the top 4 is plausible but at the very least you’d hope we can be competitive again.
I agree I don't think we will be getting a title challenge on but perhaps we should be expecting to get 70+ points next season - we are currently on 60. If 70+ points is still outside the CL places then so be it, if City get 100 points again then there is not much we can do about that.

[Power n Glory]

Is it though? I mean, I think they're basically good players. Is it really so hard to get them into a defensive unit?
I wouldn't say any of the old back 4 were superstars - don't think there were loads of England caps between them - but they were coached into a good defensive unit.

Agree with you on this. We don't even have to go as far back as the Graham days. This same team have had games where they've defended well and it's part of the game plan. The Chelsea FA Cup win springs to mind or that time we ripped Man Utd in the first half and then shut up shop for the second.

The problem with Wenger is that he seemed to think to play attacking football you must sacrifice defensive cover. A sort of acceptance. But when he set us up not to concede, we'd often come away looking solid. Heck, we've even had games where we've pressed high up the pitch and defended as a unit. That other Chelsea game is an example. We've done it a few times against top opponents but never maintain. I think we have capable players. Those aren't up to par can easily be shipped out.

[Mac76]

Steady on!

exactly - having just saved themselves they'll be walking on air and wanting to give the home crowd something to cheer about

they can't usually score many goals but i'm sure we'll oblige so 2-1 Huddersfield is my guess