France v Argentina, 15:00 BST, BBC.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Recriminations for whoever goes out. :lol:

I fear France will bore the shit out of us though.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Battle of the managers who turn talented players into complete dross.

https://i.imgur.com/ol1hHqj.jpg


I guess I'll root for France because of Bif.

No Aguero :rose:

Old man Mascherano keeps his place :rose:

[Goonermerree]

Circumstances this morning meant that I couldn't run, so I have to run during the first half of this match. Hope all the goals are in the second half.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Battle of the managers who turn talented players into complete dross.

https://i.imgur.com/ol1hHqj.jpg


I guess I'll root for France because of Bif.

No Aguero :rose:

Old man Mascherano keeps his place :rose:

Are you joking?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Are you joking?

No. :unsure:

I know he's not our player anymore but he's still someone most Arsenal fans have a good relationship with. Always did his best when he was with us.

[Marc Overmars]

Giant meteor please.

2 horribly unlikeable teams.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Sao Paolo is Argentina's coach says Lineker.

[Goonermerree]

No. :unsure:

I know he's not our player anymore but he's still someone most Arsenal fans have a good relationship with. Always did his best when he was with us.

Except his goal drought that probably cost us the league that year. Then him celebrating when he eventually did score as if he'd won the world cup when we ere out of nearly everything.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

La Marseillaise. :bow:

[Mac76]

Messi looks more up for it today, no head-in-hands stuff

[Goonermerree]

Why has Aguero been dropped again?

[Mac76]

Leaving out Higuian makes sense, but not Aguero

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Messi hacked down.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Di Maria. :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Griezman''s freekick hits the bar!

[Mac76]

Good Greizman effort

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

PEL!

Mbappe roasts half the Argentina team.

[Goonermerree]

Look at Mbappi go!!!!! pen

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Pelanty to France!

Braindead from Rojo.

[Thierrymon]

Penalty to France. What was the defender doing?

[Mac76]

Total penalty - suicide tackle by rojo

Great run by Mbappe

[SMatthews]

Rojo is so shit

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Rojo from hero to villain quite quickly. :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

France 1-0 Argentina, GRIEZMANN!!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mfappe.

[Goonermerree]

Another pen?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Freekick, so close to another pelanty.

Mbappe annihilating.

[Goonermerree]

No, outside the box. Yellow card for the argie bargie.

[SMatthews]

Mbappe tearing their defence to shreds.

[Mac76]

These argentina tackles have already robbed mbappe from two almost certain goals...

[Goonermerree]

Has anyone watched the world cup on Itv on a live stream, is it possible?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Pogba hits it with power as per Murphy's wisdom.

It goes miles away. :haha:

[Mac76]

Pogba :haha:

[SMatthews]

How much for Pogba?

[Mac76]

Has anyone watched the world cup on Itv on a live stream, is it possible?

From uk at least yes, you need to sign into itv hub

[Goonermerree]

From uk at least yes, you need to sign into itv hub

OK, thanks.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Why is Perez playing?

Get up Umtiti.

[Goonermerree]

Can get the stream on my laptop, now to try my phone. If I can, I be able to watch the whole of this match, run, then watch the other later on my phone.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mercado appealing for a handball.

[Mac76]

Argentina's movement off the ball is almost nonexistent

[Mac76]

Can get the stream on my laptop, now to try my phone. If I can, I be able to watch the whole of this match, run, then watch the other later on my phone.

Should be ok, works really well on my phone - via wifi obviously

[Mac76]

Giroud :haha:

[Goonermerree]

Should be ok, works really well on my phone - via wifi obviously

Seems like I have to download an app and I'll have to pay for it.

[I am invisible]

I've watched half the group games on itv hub so far - works fine, although it starts of with a series of in-stream ads, so you might be a minute behind everyone else...

[Goonermerree]

Mescarno fouls, clearly.

[Goonermerree]

I've watched half the group games on itv hub so far - works fine, although it starts of with a series of in-stream ads, so you might be a minute behind everyone else...

I don't mind the time lag. Did you have to pay for an app?

[Mac76]

Seems like I have to download an app and I'll have to pay for it.

No, that's not right, have you gone direct to itv website ?

[I am invisible]

I don't mind the time lag. Did you have to pay for an app?
I've never paid for an app in my life! Let the ads pay for it...

[Goonermerree]

No, that's not right, have you gone direct to itv website ?

I've signed in and it's still asking me to down load the app. did you have to download the app?

[Mac76]

I've signed in and it's still asking me to down load the app. did you have to download the app?

Yes but you shouldn't have to pay for the app

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Bif goes flying. :lol:

[Goonermerree]

Yes but you shouldn't have to pay for the app

I've downloaded the app and lost the screen to watch live.

I had to sign in again and I can get live tv. Thanks for your help.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

My God.

What a goal.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

France 1-1 Argentina, DI MARIA!!!!

Holy shit!

[Goonermerree]

1-1

[Mac76]

Di Maria :clap:

Lloris :haha:

[SMatthews]

Maradona still alive. For now.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mascherano booked, suspended for the next match. Good news for them.

[Goonermerree]

Mascherano booked, suspended for the next match. Good news for them.

He'll see red if he carries on fouling the way he is.

[Goonermerree]

I really want France to win this.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-1 HT. :popcorn:

[Mac76]

Argentina 63% possession and yet France better in that first half

[Syn]

What a player Mbappe already is. So exciting to watch him.

[Master Splinter]

France play like they're always 3-0 up.

No urgency or killer instinct. So much carelessness in midfield and attack.

For every good thing Pogba does, he outclasses it with three brainless moments.

If France had a game plan and some discipline, they'd be winning this with ease against a lame Argentina side.

[Goonermerree]

All I've heard on the radio or TV is how England will do if it goes to penalties on Tuesday. Give it a rest!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Rojo hauled off, Fazio on.

[Mac76]

Pity Murphy's not been hauled off, he really is the pits

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Meccano!

2-1.

[Goonermerree]

What a fluke 2-1 argentina

[McNamara That Ghost...]

France 1-2 Argentina, MERCADO pubs it in!!!!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Messi assist.

Delivering on the big stage. :bow:

[SMatthews]

Oh dear France

[Goonermerree]

Come on Mbappi.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Banega booked and missed the next match. :rose:

[Mac76]

2-1 - if Mercado meant that touch that's actually a great piece of work

[Letters]

Messi assist.

Delivering on the big stage. :bow:

:gp:

Messi :bow:

[Goonermerree]

Cynical, cynical foul on Mbappi there. Only yellow.

[Letters]

What a player Mbappe already is. So exciting to watch him.

Hanson :bow:

[Letters]

All I've heard on the radio or TV is how England will do if it goes to penalties on Tuesday. Give it a rest!

Lose? :unsure:

[Syn]

Surprised Otamendi still has the stones to square up to Giroud, considering he's been bullied by him every time they've faced eachother.

[Goonermerree]

Lose? :unsure:

That's the general consensus, yes, but let's us please play the match, or even get to match day.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Surprised Otamendi still has the stones to square up to Giroud, considering he's been bullied by him every time they've faced eachother.

In a fight I wouldn't take Bif.

[Goonermerree]

Argentina were so poor in that first half, now they're in front.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fazio. :haha:

WTF?

[Goonermerree]

VAR? Where's VAR?

[Mac76]

Whoa nearly a massive cockup at the back for Argentina :lol:

[Goonermerree]

Come on France. Score as I type, what a shot

[McNamara That Ghost...]

France 2-2 Argentina!

[Letters]

2-2! What a hit!

[Thierrymon]

2-2 Yay

[Power n Glory]

What a game.

[Mac76]

2-2 another screamer :)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What a game.

Me. :haha:

[Letters]

Bloody hell. Looked even better on the replay.
Brilliant

[Goonermerree]

Come on France.

[Goonermerree]

Bloody hell. Looked even better on the replay.
Brilliant

Yeh, the spin on it!

[I am invisible]

Anyone else just waiting for Argentina lose their shit?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ridiculous strike. :bow:

Pavane. :bow:

Great song.

[Goonermerree]

Anyone else just waiting for Argentina lose their shit?

Won't happen while it's still 2-2, if they go behind again they could.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

France 3-2 Argentina, MBAPPE!!

[Goonermerree]

Mbappi!!!! 3-2

[Letters]

3-2 France!

This is brilliant :lol:

[Thierrymon]

Mbappe@!!

[I am invisible]

Won't happen while it's still 2-2, if they go behind again they could.
Here we go! Fight! Fight! Fight!

[Mac76]

Mbappe 3-2

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mowbray getting carried away. :lol:

[Goonermerree]

What a player Mbappi is.

[Letters]

Won't happen while it's still 2-2, if they go behind again they could.

:popcorn:

[Goonermerree]

:popcorn:

Sit back and enjoy the meltdown.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Perez off, Aguero on.

[Mac76]

Here we go, Aguero

[Goonermerree]

Aguero is on

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Otamendi. :haha:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Game, well and truly over.

:bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

France 4-2 Argentina, MBAPPE!!!

[Goonermerree]

4-2 Mbappe

[Letters]

4!

[I am invisible]

This tournament needs a good brawl - apart from Maradona, nothing's really brought any shame to it yet...

[Thierrymon]

4-2 game over

[Mac76]

Great France move

Giroud assist :lol:

[SMatthews]

Game over

[Goonermerree]

Great France move

Giroud assist :lol:

A good one too, cool and calm and perfectly placed.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Bif misses. :haha:

[Goonermerree]

Trust Giroud to spoil the party

[Mac76]

Giroud :haha:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Argentina are done.
6/7? :popcorn:

[Letters]

Bif misses. :haha:

Sell him, he’s sh...oh yeah

[Goonermerree]

I don't know why my TV coverage is behind. And it's a smart TV, bloody thick if you ask me.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mautidi misses the next match.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Pavard whacks Di Maria.

[Goonermerree]

Sell him, he’s sh...oh yeah

It's funny, I still see him as an Arsenal player.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mbappe has lost it.

[Letters]

Mbappe :haha:
Rubbish!

[Goonermerree]

Mbappe, just shoot.

[I am invisible]

I don't know why my TV coverage is behind.
Live TV is always a little behind in case anything horrific happens and they need to cut the footage quickly...

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Pavon hauled off, Meza on.

Matuidi off, Tolisso on.

[Goonermerree]

Live TV is always a little behind in case anything horrific happens and they need to cut the footage quickly...

Everybody is posting a goal before I see it though, so how come they are ahead of me? It's not fair!!!!!

[Goonermerree]

Could Pavard have stayed on his feet there?

[Letters]

You didn’t accidentally pause your TV for a bit, did you?
If you’re watching online as opposed to on a TV you’ll probably be a bit behind.

[Goonermerree]

You didn’t accidentally pause your TV for a bit, did you?
If you’re watching online as opposed to on a TV you’ll probably be a bit behind.

I'm watching on TV, and no, it's not on pause.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I don't like goalscoring jokes tbf.

[Goonermerree]

No, no two goals for extra time, my schedule is too tight.

[Letters]

I don't like goalscoring jokes tbf.

Killjoy :p

(Wasn’t a very good joke tbf, but I did immediately make clear I was kidding)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Griezmann off, Fekir on with his bad knee.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Messi scuffer!

[Letters]

Messi :doh:

Great run, awful scuffed shot.

[Goonermerree]

Messi :haha:

[SMatthews]

Hopefully someone’s checked in on El Diego

[Goonermerree]

If Argentina score now it will be a bit nervy.

[Goonermerree]

Why are the French players trying to get themselves booked, you're in front keep your cool.

[I am invisible]

Everybody is posting a goal before I see it though, so how come they are ahead of me? It's not fair!!!!!
No idea! Maybe they all have gold-plated cables or something?

[SMatthews]

Hernandez hasn’t been a prick today which makes a change.

[Mac76]

Poor free kick and then poor cross from di maria, argentina running out of chances

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mbappe off, Thauvin on.

[Goonermerree]

Mbappe off. Mbappe :bow:

[I am invisible]

SOMEBODY PUNCH SOMEONE! WE PAID FOR BLOOD!!!

[Goonermerree]

SOMEBODY PUNCH SOMEONE! WE PAID FOR BLOOD!!!

Dunno about them, it sounds like you want to punch someone though!:blink:

[Letters]

Dunno about them, it sounds like you want to punch someone though!:blink:

He’s like a much calmer NQ

[Goonermerree]

No idea! Maybe they all have gold-plated cables or something?

It must be my thick telly.

[GP]

He’s like a much calmer NQ

https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Screen-Shot-2017-12-04-at-8.52.42-AM.png

[Letters]

Can we see Maradona crying now kthxpls?

[I am invisible]

Dunno about them, it sounds like you want to punch someone though!:blink:
Nah, I'm a coward - I have to live vicariously, through other people.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

France 4-3 Argentina, AGUERO!!!!

What a ball from Messi!

[Mac76]

4-3!

[Letters]

4-3! :popcorn:

[Goonermerree]

Aguero scores. 4-3

[I am invisible]

Can we see Maradona crying now kthxpls?
Or at least with his face buried in a garbage bag full of powder.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fight fight fight!

[Goonermerree]

Fight, fight, fight!!!

[Letters]

Bif booked! :haha:

[Mac76]

Giroud :haha:

[Letters]

Aguero scores. 4-3

Really? ;)

[Goonermerree]

Keep your cool France.

[Goonermerree]

Really? ;)

Stop it!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Get it in the mixer!

[Letters]

Multi ball! :haha:

[Letters]

FT! Full time! Brilliant! :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Chance for 4-4! What a bunch of pubbers.

France 4-3 Argentina, FT!

Doing it for Kos. :bow:

[Goonermerree]

Yay, Argentina :wave::

[Mac76]

France through, terrific match :)

Argentina manager should be shot, wasted some good talent with s**t tactics and picked some nutters

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

The first World Cup I remember, and Mbappe wasn't even born.

:ilt:

[I am invisible]

That was a great game, tbf!

[Goonermerree]

Great game, great excitement, bit of a fight for Invisible in the end. More of the same later, fight an' all.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Shearer has his thesaurus out again.

[Cripps]

Messi :haha:

Messi :haha:

Messi :haha:

Cemented his place as 3rd best player in the world behind Salah.

Oh and

Letters:haha: :haha: :haha:
Goonersweb:haha: :haha: :haha:

[Goonermerree]

France through, terrific match :)

Argentina manager should be shot, wasted some good talent with s**t tactics and picked some nutters

Tbf, he only had nutters to pick from.

[Letters]

The first World Cup I remember, and Mbappe wasn't even born.

:ilt:

Cheer up. At least it means you’re too young to remember Anfield ‘89 ;)
I am, unfortunately :oldboy:

[Letters]

That second goal.
Goal of the tournament?

[I am invisible]

Great game, great excitement, bit of a fight for Invisible in the end. More of the same later, fight an' all.
It'll do, I guess - just doesn't feel like a proper WC without at least one really bad-tempered game. Uruguay are always good for a bit of red mist though, and Ronald's always good for irritating anyone near him...

[Letters]

The 3rd one was brilliant too.
Great team goal.

[I am invisible]

The 3rd one was brilliant too.
Great team goal.
3rd or 4th?

[Letters]

3rd or 4th?

Er...I thought it was the 3rd France goal but maybe it was the 4th.
:unsure:
The Giroud assist.

[Master Splinter]

Bif MOTM.

[Cripps]

Messi MOTM





























































































:haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Messi with two assists. :bow:

Stepped it up for his country.

[Cripps]

Lionel Messi has now failed to score in any of his eight appearances at the knockout stages of the #WorldCup:

2006: ✖️
2010: ✖️✖️
2014: ✖️✖️✖️✖️
2018: ✖️

:haha:

[SMatthews]

If Ronaldo doesn’t score tonight he’ll have the exact same record. Either way, piss poor from them both.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Except his goal drought that probably cost us the league that year. Then him celebrating when he eventually did score as if he'd won the world cup when we ere out of nearly everything.

And then pleading to join the Chavs because his wife wears the trousers...and getting his wishes met by Le professor.

[Cripps]

If Ronaldo doesn’t score tonight he’ll have the exact same record. Either way, piss poor from them both.

Ronaldo is scoring hattricks against Spain and winning trophies for the national team.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Why no mugshot of Maradonner kebab in tears as they exit at the end of the game?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Had to pull an all nighter for work & personal reasons and so I was exhausted when this match came around.

Ended up sleeping thorough it and missing it all hence my lack of posts after I posted the team sheet.

Me :doh: :doh:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

No MO either. :haha:

[I am invisible]

Had to pull an all nighter for work & personal reasons and so I was exhausted when this match came around.

Ended up sleeping thorough it and missing it all hence my lack of posts after I posted the team sheet.

Me :doh: :doh:
But you had a good sleep though, right?

I've got a 2 year old and an 8 month old who's teething, so I can only imagine what that must be like.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

But you had a good sleep though, right?

I've got a 2 year old and an 8 month old who's teething, so I can only imagine what that must be like.

Yeah I feel a bit refreshed now, at least enough to see me through the Portugal vs Uruguay clash.


The ridiculous heat right now in the UK didn't help though .... makes it easy to doze off. Though what didn't help was that I was streaming it on my laptop whilst on my bed ...... amateur mistake. :doh:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Actually fell asleep and woke up on 52 minutes 2-1 to Argentina....for much the same reasons.

[SMatthews]

Ronaldo is scoring hattricks against Spain and winning trophies for the national team.

Sure , but when it comes to knocks out in the WC, which is what you’re talking about, they’re both as bad as each other.

[Power n Glory]

If Ronaldo doesn’t score tonight he’ll have the exact same record. Either way, piss poor from them both.

How many chances did they create? Surely that means they've done better than most;)

Ronaldo has done better than Messi on the international stage. Besides the World Cup, Messi has choked a lot in the Copa America but Ronaldo has a European trophy and so far, he's had a much better tournament this WC.

I prefer Messi but a lot more respect for Ronaldo because he's delivered for Man Utd, Real Madrid and Portugal. And that Portugal team is average compared to some of the other international teams.

[Letters]

I've got a 2 year old and an 8 month old who's teething, so I can only imagine what that must be like.

Living with NQ?

:ninja:




:run:

[SMatthews]

How many chances did they create? Surely that means they've done better than most;)

Ronaldo has done better than Messi on the international stage. Besides the World Cup, Messi has choked a lot in the Copa America but Ronaldo has a European trophy and so far, he's had a much better tournament this WC.

I prefer Messi but a lot more respect for Ronaldo because he's delivered for Man Utd, Real Madrid and Portugal. And that Portugal team is average compared to some of the other international teams.

You have to respect them both, although Ronaldo makes it easier to laugh at him when he fucks up because he’s worse at hiding his ego than Messi.

Comparing them by trophies doesn’t make sense to me as the other ten players play just as important a role domestically and internationally.

Only when they retire will there be a proper perspective on how amazing they both were.

[Master Splinter]

No MO either. :haha:

MO missing all the classics.

MO :haha:.

[Cripps]

You have to respect them both, although Ronaldo makes it easier to laugh at him when he fucks up because he’s worse at hiding his ego than Messi.

Comparing them by trophies doesn’t make sense to me as the other ten players play just as important a role domestically and internationally.

Only when they retire will there be a proper perspective on how amazing they both were.

Messi has much better players around him at Argentina.

So it makes Ronaldo's achievement even more impressive.

[Power n Glory]

Messi has much better players around him at Argentina.

So it makes Ronaldo's achievement even more impressive.

Exactly. In no major tournament have I seen Portugal as favourites to win or having a strong squad man for man. That's what makes Euro win a more impressive achievement for sure.

[Letters]

Yeah, where was Messi at the Euros? :sulk:

Denmark weren’t favourites when they won it. They didn’t even qualify for it.

[Cripps]

Exactly. In no major tournament have I seen Portugal as favourites to win or having a strong squad man for man. That's what makes Euro win a more impressive achievement for sure.

Also the competition and teams in Euros > copa america.

It continues to get even more impressive.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Also the competition and teams in Euros > copa america.

It continues to get even more impressive.

Iceland, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, Poland, Wales and France.

I think you're overreaching here.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah, where was Messi at the Euros? :sulk:

Denmark weren’t favourites when they won it. They didn’t even qualify for it.

Maybe we should measure the quality of Messi and Ronaldo by how many chances they create? ;)

[Cripps]

Iceland, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, Poland, Wales and France.

I think you're overreaching here.

Yeah pick out the crap teams :lol:

[Power n Glory]

Yeah pick out the crap teams :lol:

It doesn't change the fact that Messi has never won a WC or Copa America. Hasn't he been to the finals of the Copa 3 times or something and lost them all even missing a penalty? Argentina have been blessed with some great players over the years so it's a surprise.

[Cripps]

Messi :haha:

[Letters]

Yeah pick out the crap teams :lol:
...those are literally the only sides they played

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yeah pick out the crap teams :lol:

I unfairly picked out all the teams they faced in 2016.

[GP]

Remember when Ronaldo pussied out of the final by faking an injury :lol:

[Power n Glory]

I unfairly picked out all the teams they faced in 2016.

Take Ronaldo out of Portugal and they look just as shit as most of those teams.

[Cripps]

I unfairly picked out all the teams they faced in 2016.

Croatia have been the most impressive team this world cup and France are one of the best in the world:coffee:

[Letters]

Maybe we should measure the quality of Messi and Ronaldo by how many chances they create? ;)

That is the definitive way to assess the quality of any player :sulk:

More seriously, let's look at how Portugal won that tournament.

They didn't win any of their group games. They drew with Iceland 1-1, drew with Austria 0-0 and with Hungary 3-3.
Ronaldo scored two goals in the last of those.

Then in the knock outs they beat Croatia in extra time.
Then they beat Poland on penalties (fun fact, I was in Warsaw that night, go there a lot on business, and watched the end of it in a bar there).
Then they beat Wales 2-0, Ronaldo scored the first - so that was the semi-final and the first game they actually won in normal time. And it was against Wales who, all disrespect due, are no world beaters.

They won the final 1-0 against France. Arguably the first decent side they played. That was in extra time too and Ronaldo went off after 25 minutes.

So spare me this notion that Ronaldo heorically dragged a mediocre Portugal to glory against the world's best. They pub-teamed their way to the title against some poor sides, most of which they either didn't beat or snuck past in ET or on pens. The only decent team they beat (also in extra time) Ronaldo wasn't even on the pitch for most of it.

[Letters]

Croatia have been the most impressive team this world cup and France are one of the best in the world:coffee:

That would work even better if you hadn't just said "Yeah pick out the crap teams" :lol:


Cripps :haha:

[Cripps]

Bitterness :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Croatia have been the most impressive team this world cup and France are one of the best in the world:coffee:

In 2016.

[Power n Glory]

That is the definitive way to assess the quality of any player :sulk:

More seriously, let's look at how Portugal won that tournament.

They didn't win any of their group games. They drew with Iceland 1-1, drew with Austria 0-0 and with Hungary 3-3.
Ronaldo scored two goals in the last of those.

Then in the knock outs they beat Croatia in extra time.
Then they beat Poland on penalties (fun fact, I was in Warsaw that night, go there a lot on business, and watched the end of it in a bar there).
Then they beat Wales 2-0, Ronaldo scored the first - so that was the semi-final and the first game they actually won in normal time. And it was against Wales who, all disrespect due, are no world beaters.

They won the final 1-0 against France. Arguably the first decent side they played. That was in extra time too and Ronaldo went off after 25 minutes.

So spare me this notion that Ronaldo heorically dragged a mediocre Portugal to glory against the world's best. They pub-teamed their way to the title against some poor sides, most of which they either didn't beat or snuck past in ET or on pens. The only decent team they beat (also in extra time) Ronaldo wasn't even on the pitch for most of it.

:lol: man, shut up. Messi hasn't won a thing at International level. Nothing. Regardless of whether they pubbed it, they won! It's that simple. Name another Portuguese attacking player that's close to Ronaldo's level? I'll wait.

Argentina have Aguero, Di Maria, Dybala, Higuain, Mascherano, Otemendi, Pastore, Lavezzi... way more players over the years with high level experience.

[Letters]

:lol: man, shut up. Messi hasn't won a thing at International level. Nothing.

True, and that is damning when it comes to the Copa America. But not relevant to my point.


Regardless of whether they pubbed it, they won! It's that simple.

Yes, but to quote the part of my post which makes my point:

Spare me this notion that Ronaldo heroically dragged a mediocre Portugal to glory against the world's best.


Name another Portuguese attacking player that's close to Ronaldo's level?
Well, there isn't one. But also not relevant to my point.

WUMming aside, people on both sides of the Ronaldo vs Messi debate like to pretend it's nice and clear cut and their preferred player is clearly superior.
Fact is, they are two of the GOATs, there really isn't much between them. I don't like Ronaldo because hes an egotistical cock. Messi probably is too tbf, maybe he just hides it better.

But the idea that Portugal pub teaming their way against poor opposition to a trophy two years ago and winning the final while Ronaldo wasn't even playing makes Ronaldo the clear winner is absurd.

[Power n Glory]

:doh: Your whole argument is irrelevant if it's not framed within the context of comparing Messi and Ronaldo. It's pretty foolish to bluster into a discussion not knowing why we're discussing it in the first place.

As usual, you're trying to frame the argument around points you make whilst dismissing what was previously said.

[Cripps]

:lol:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

This is the problem of comparing an individual's merits to a team's performance. It's pointless.

[Cripps]

PnG makes some excellent points.

Letters :haha:

[Letters]

So you're comparing Messi and Ronaldo and your killer argument is Ronaldo is Portuguese and Portugal won the Euros 2 years ago.
Really? :lol:

Unless you consider the teams they played in the tournament, Ronaldo's contribution to the win and the other players in that squad it's a completely simple-minded argument.
Comparing players is next to impossible anyway, there are so many factors. When they've both retired we can look at their respective final stats.
But that doesn't tell you everything, they played in different teams, with different players and so on.

[Letters]

This is the problem of comparing an individual's merits to a team's performance. It's pointless.

Correct. And how do you definitively compare two players anyway.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say both Messi and Ronaldo are better than Welbeck (apart from in the smile department).
I don't think anyone would argue with that.
But comparing them to each other...really difficult.

[SMatthews]

:lol: man, shut up. Messi hasn't won a thing at International level. Nothing. Regardless of whether they pubbed it, they won! It's that simple. Name another Portuguese attacking player that's close to Ronaldo's level? I'll wait.

Argentina have Aguero, Di Maria, Dybala, Higuain, Mascherano, Otemendi, Pastore, Lavezzi... way more players over the years with high level experience.

Doesn’t that just further highlight the point that a teams failure - or success - is down to more than one player. It’s pretty reductive to suggest otherwise.

[Power n Glory]

This is the problem of comparing an individual's merits to a team's performance. It's pointless.

It is difficult. I prefer Messi as a player but I can't help but wonder if playing for Barcelona inflates his trophy count. It's a well run club and he hasn't played for any other club which leaves his international record which is disappointing. So many finals at international level but has never come out on top.

[Power n Glory]

So you're comparing Messi and Ronaldo and your killer argument is Ronaldo is Portuguese and Portugal won the Euros 2 years ago.
Really? :lol:

Unless you consider the teams they played in the tournament, Ronaldo's contribution to the win and the other players in that squad it's a completely simple-minded argument.
Comparing players is next to impossible anyway, there are so many factors. When they've both retired we can look at their respective final stats.
But that doesn't tell you everything, they played in different teams, with different players and so on.

You're doing it again. Sit this one out, mate. Really.

[Cripps]

:lol:

PnG :bow:

[Power n Glory]

Doesn’t that just further highlight the point that a teams failure - or success - is down to more than one player. It’s pretty reductive to suggest otherwise.

You tell me. Ronaldo has done better than Messi in this tournament but you say both have been piss poor in this World Cup. Why?

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

It is difficult. I prefer Messi as a player but I can't help but wonder if playing for Barcelona inflates his trophy count. It's a well run club and he hasn't played for any other club which leaves his international record which is disappointing. So many finals at international level but has never come out on top.

But then the best players always play for the biggest clubs, and play alongside the best. One can hardly hold it against someone for winning too much. I don't care for the Messi/Ronaldo debate, but it seems a tad arbitrary to say because one player won one tournament, when he barely played in the final, it therefore makes him better than someone who hasn't. There's too much going on that is out of the player's hands. An £80m striker in Higuain misses however many one on ones across however many finals, whereas a raffle winner called Eder smashes one in from 30 yards.

And it works the other way as well. If Argentina won the Copa America next year, but Messi missed/came off in the final, that doesn't suddenly legitimise him as a better player. It's probably fair to say one had a better tournament than the other (a large part of that comes down to the Spain game, where they clearly had a game plan, and a performance they didn't repeat imo) but then Portugal didn't even get out of the groups in 2014 and Ronaldo only scored one, whereas Messi scored 4, scoring decisive goals in every group game.

I think what I'm trying to say is, the world would be a better place if there was never another one of these debates.

[Globalgunner]

All I know is Messi makes me smile. Ronaldo for all his talent makes me wish i could kick him. However, I once lined up against his waxworks at Mdme Tussauds. He is one big Mfker.

I was in traffic during this match. Just seen the highlights. Marcus Rojo!!!. What a bell end. Did he think he was at OT while shoving Mbappe twice for the pen?

[Power n Glory]

But then the best players always play for the biggest clubs, and play alongside the best. One can hardly hold it against someone for winning too much. I don't care for the Messi/Ronaldo debate, but it seems a tad arbitrary to say because one player won one tournament, when he barely played in the final, it therefore makes him better than someone who hasn't. There's too much going on that is out of the player's hands. An £80m striker in Higuain misses however many one on ones across however many finals, whereas a raffle winner called Eder smashes one in from 30 yards.

And it works the other way as well. If Argentina won the Copa America next year, but Messi missed/came off in the final, that doesn't suddenly legitimise him as a better player. It's probably fair to say one had a better tournament than the other (a large part of that comes down to the Spain game, where they clearly had a game plan, and a performance they didn't repeat imo) but then Portugal didn't even get out of the groups in 2014 and Ronaldo only scored one, whereas Messi scored 4, scoring decisive goals in every group game.

I think what I'm trying to say is, the world would be a better place if there was never another one of these debates.

The best players play for the biggest clubs but at the very top level when people compare greats it starts coming down to the fine margins. I prefer Messi but I can also understand why people prefer Ronaldo. In football, people always ask these questions. You see a player killing it for a smaller club, you wonder if he can do it with a bigger club. Can they do it in Europe. How about in another league or at international level. For me, Ronaldo has done it all so I don't really have much else to question about his ability.

I think Messi is retiring from International football soon. Still a great player but outside of the Ronaldo comparison, he has the Maradonna comparison on his shoulders and they've always hoped he'd surpass Maradona. Has he? You may hate these type of debates but they'll continue because everyone will want to discuss the greatest of all time. International records get dragged into the conversation because of the greats like Maradona and Pele.

[Power n Glory]

All I know is Messi makes me smile. Ronaldo for all his talent makes me wish i could kick him. However, I once lined up against his waxworks at Mdme Tussauds. He is one big Mfker.

I was in traffic during this match. Just seen the highlights. Marcus Rojo!!!. What a bell end. Did he think he was at OT while shoving Mbappe twice for the pen?

We all grew up watching Ronaldo in the Prem and hating his guts. Show pony! But as the years have gone by and I've seen how hard he's worked, I can't help but respect it. I'm not a hater when it comes to hard work.

[Marc Overmars]

Messi. :haha:

Argentina. :haha:

[Letters]

Still a great player but outside of the Ronaldo comparison, he has the Maradonna comparison on his shoulders and they've always hoped he'd surpass Maradona. Has he? You may hate these type of debates but they'll continue because everyone will want to discuss the greatest of all time. International records get dragged into the conversation because of the greats like Maradona and Pele.

Kibbles is making the exact same point I was making. Pele is an interesting one because he did it all on the international stage but at club level he stayed in Brazil (I'm ignoring his time in America!), we'll never know how he would have done in one of the big leagues in Europe. And certainly in 1970 Pele was in one of the great International sides, neither Messi or Ronaldo have been. And this is where comparisons at international level get tricky.
George Best was one of the GOATs IMO. He made a complete hash of his career but in terms of raw talent he could have been up there with any of the others in consideration. But he was Northern Irish so was never going to achieve anything of note at international level. I'm not saying that Ronaldo and Messi's international careers are irrelevant to this debate, but I would question how much weight to give a Euro 2016 medal given the way they scraped through the whole tournament, the sides they faced and, when we're talking about Ronaldo, the fact he sat out most of the final which was the only really top side they played. I think it's fair to say that they wouldn't have won it without him, he's clearly their best player. But I reject any notion that he was a big part of dragging a mediocre Portugal team to glory against Europe's best. It's like in 1992 when Liverpool won the FA Cup. Their route to the final was:

Crewe (A)
Bristol Rovers (A) - won on a replay
Ipswich Town (A) - won on a replay
Aston Villa (H)
Portsmouth (N) - won after a reply on penalties
Sunderland (N) - Sunderland were in the second division at the time.

It still counts but you'd have to add less weight to it as an achievement for the players and manager than had they faced some really top teams. I love Globalgunner's quote above:


All I know is Messi makes me smile. Ronaldo for all his talent makes me wish i could kick him.

Exactly how I feel. IMO they're both two of the GOATs though, it's not a debate which can ever be definitively resolved. But there's not as much between them as some people on either side of the debate like to pretend.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/06/30/16/4DC90F7D00000578-5903999-image-a-33_1530371142206.jpg


Otamendi subtly squirts Giroud with water during a drinks break.

The guy is such a cunt! :lol::lol:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5903999/Otamendi-squirts-Giroud-Things-missed-France-v-Argentina.html

[Marc Overmars]

There’s nothing between them. It’s a matter of opinion as to who you prefer. Messi is a gifted genius and Ronaldo is a genetic freak. 5 years ago I don’t think there was a debate to be had but Ronaldo has somehow enjoyed the best years of his career when he should have been preparing for the scrap heap and that’s down to his incredible dedication to the sport.

I’m glad at least one of them has an international honour to his name, both couldn’t be more deserving.

IMO The CL is the most quality filled and hardest competition in the world to win, so I don’t believe Messi needs to prove anything really. Messi should at least have a Copa America title but he fluffed his lines, shit happens and I don’t think it’s the be all and end all.

It does make me laugh though how Ronaldo’s success seems to trigger a lot of people but that’s the internet I suppose. :lol:

Glad France and Uruguay won so we can watch the remainder of the World Cup without this insufferable who’s the GOAT narrative.

[Power n Glory]

Kibbles is making the exact same point I was making. Pele is an interesting one because he did it all on the international stage but at club level he stayed in Brazil (I'm ignoring his time in America!), we'll never know how he would have done in one of the big leagues in Europe. And certainly in 1970 Pele was in one of the great International sides, neither Messi or Ronaldo have been. And this is where comparisons at international level get tricky.
George Best was one of the GOATs IMO. He made a complete hash of his career but in terms of raw talent he could have been up there with any of the others in consideration. But he was Northern Irish so was never going to achieve anything of note at international level. I'm not saying that Ronaldo and Messi's international careers are irrelevant to this debate, but I would question how much weight to give a Euro 2016 medal given the way they scraped through the whole tournament, the sides they faced and, when we're talking about Ronaldo, the fact he sat out most of the final which was the only really top side they played. I think it's fair to say that they wouldn't have won it without him, he's clearly their best player. But I reject any notion that he was a big part of dragging a mediocre Portugal team to glory against Europe's best. It's like in 1992 when Liverpool won the FA Cup. Their route to the final was:

Crewe (A)
Bristol Rovers (A) - won on a replay
Ipswich Town (A) - won on a replay
Aston Villa (H)
Portsmouth (N) - won after a reply on penalties
Sunderland (N) - Sunderland were in the second division at the time.

It still counts but you'd have to add less weight to it as an achievement for the players and manager than had they faced some really top teams. I love Globalgunner's quote above:



Exactly how I feel. IMO they're both two of the GOATs though, it's not a debate which can ever be definitively resolved. But there's not as much between them as some people on either side of the debate like to pretend.

We're only talking about what Messi and Ronaldo achieved at International level because of the fine margins. It's so hard to separate what the two have achieved at club level because they've both won everything. Hence the focus on International football. Both have had their disappointments at International level but I think Messi will retire feeling slightly unsatisfied at that level because he didn't win anything and he's made it to World Cup and Copa America finals. He hasn't really performed at the same level we know he can perform at club level. It happens. Still a great player and will go down as one of the greatest.

You bring up George Best, his international career, the fact that playing for Northern Ireland meant he'd never be a favorite to win a Euro or World Cup, but fail to see the point being made about Ronaldo and Portugal. Regardless of the path taken, if George Best somehow won a major tournament with Northern Ireland, you have to give him some credit. No, it's not one man doing it alone but he played his part to help win it. Same applies for Ronaldo and Portugal. They've never won a Euro before and before Ronaldo, had never made it to a final. They're not a nation like Italy, Holland or Germany. They're not constantly churning out the World's best players. They're not utter shite like Northern Ireland but they've never won the Euros before. Argentina on the other hand have been churning out some of the world's finest for years and there is always that expectation that they will be a tough team to beat

Despite not playing much in the final, Ronaldo got the goal and assist in extra time that got Portugal to the final. Despite Portugal playing shite throughout the tournament, he got the 2 goals and assist that got them past the group stage. They would have gone out otherwise. Despite the opposition, those are big moments. We scored 3 goals with 3 assists.

We've seen the disappointment at Arsenal when we're playing really shit against opposition that aren't that great themselves and nobody steps their game up. It's funny how you're critical of the path taken to win the tournament. I've seen people make the exact same point about some of our FA Cup wins and you've shut it down. When I've criticized Ozil, you've brought up his FA Cup trophies and his World Cup with Germany. What's his record in those competitions? He's never scored or got an assist in any of the finals. FA Cup and World Cup. The biggest team he's scored against in the FA Cup is Everton where he got a goal and assist in the QF for our first FA Cup win. Other than that, he only got an assist against Coventry. Does that rub some of the shine off that FA Cup victory for Ozil? 2nd FA Cup he registered 1 goal and 2 assists. The goal came against Brighton in the 4th round. 2 assist against Reading in the semis. Is that something to write home about? Our hardest FA Cup win was the last one where we played Chelsea in the final, City in the semis. Ozil only registered an assist against Lincoln City in the 6th round. A team we battered 6 nil. The World Cup is similar. A goal against Algeria and assist against Brazil who were battered 7-1. A 90th minute assist. It's funny how far you've gone to analyse Ronaldo's record but have always been quick to dismiss the same point made about our FA Cup victories and Ozil.

Again, just to make things clear, I'm not saying Ronaldo dragged Portugal to win the Euros on his own but you can't deny he made a vital contribution and it's just another way to try and measure the fine margins between the whole Messi and Ronaldo debate. Neither have glowing CV's at International level but I think Ronaldo pips him slightly.