Kroenke's Bid for Total Control - Trojan Horse or Long Term Security?

[Dial Square Old Boy]

I would suspect the former. Not good to have no counter argument against any business choices Stan might wish to make if his bid gets the nod.

[selassie]

Facts are that all of the teams Kroenke owns in the States perform poorly, from a business perspective they are all doing OK...but he is doing the absolute bare minimum to sufficiently invest in any of them.

Premier League is a different animal and being the Owner of Arsenal football club comes with it's own set of demands.

Do I think Kroenke cares about Arsenal winning stuff? No

Do I think Kroenke will invest sufficiently in Arsenal football club? Yes and No

I think to a degree he has invested quite a bit already...hear me out on this...if you look at our net spend over the past 3 years we have invested a lot on players, just very badly, we all know the reasons why.

With the right manager and recruitment team which we are more than halfway there to having, we will be on the right track.

I certainly believe our recruitment would have been more successful over the past few years with someone else other than Wenger making the decisions.

We will never spend like City or Man Utd...but we should most certainly be in a position to spend like Liverpool or close to how they spend assuming we get back into CL.

Don't forget Liverpool have invested a large chunk of their money through the Coutinho sale.

We certainly need to play it a lot more smarter in many areas of recruitment including contract renewals.

I don't think Kroenke being in total control will be detrimental to us...though I don't think it's a major positive either. I am sitting on the fence so to speak!

[Özim]

Interesting thing about Liverpool is that all the Coutinho money was used last summer, they were slightly up, this summer however they've spent 160 odd million and even taking into consideration last summers profit their net spend is about 150 million.

Worry is now that Kroenke has total control he can pay whatever dividends he wants (without making it public) which will come in handy when repaying the debt (so in effect the club will be repaying it), borrow against the club as he wishes and do whatever he wants.

Bearing in mind he couldn't care less about football or what happens on the pitch and finances are his only concern, that's not very good news for us. Sadly for us we have the only owner who really not only is happy doing the bare minimum, but also has a record of failure on the pitch (his support for Wenger and his 4th place championship showed what he thinks about winning).

[Marc Overmars]

I would suspect the former. Not good to have no counter argument against any business choices Stan might wish to make if his bid gets the nod.

How much counter argument was Usmanov even able to give without a controlling stake anyway? It's always been Kroenke steering the ship.

I'm not really sure what Kroenke's full takeover means for us to be honest. I don't understand business at this high level enough.

[Power n Glory]

We're all at fault for this but there is a lot of misinformation out there on how Kroenke's team perform. I was curious because I know the LA Rams had a good season last year and I also remember the Denver Nuggets having Carmelo Anthony and reaching the playoffs. I didn't know the Rams won the Superbowl but I think Kroenke was a minority shareholder at the time.

https://www.newsweek.com/l-rams-arsenal-and-nuggets-how-successful-are-stan-kroenkes-teams-1060409

[Özim]

How much counter argument was Usmanov even able to give without a controlling stake anyway? It's always been Kroenke steering the ship.

I'm not really sure what Kroenke's full takeover means for us to be honest. I don't understand business at this high level enough.

It means he can do whatever he wants with the club no questions asked as he 100% owns it, something he couldn't do before.

- He can buy all the rest of the minority shares (they have to sell them to him if he wants them)
- There will be no general meeting as it's now privately owned
- Can load Arsenal with debt to finance other businesses
- Can get Arsenal to pay dividends and management fees as and when he wishes

Whichever way you look at it it's not good news.

[Özim]

We're all at fault for this but there is a lot of misinformation out there on how Kroenke's team perform. I was curious because I know the LA Rams had a good season last year and I also remember the Denver Nuggets having Carmelo Anthony and reaching the playoffs. I didn't know the Rams won the Superbowl but I think Kroenke was a minority shareholder at the time.

https://www.newsweek.com/l-rams-arsenal-and-nuggets-how-successful-are-stan-kroenkes-teams-1060409

I don't really understand all that American stuff to be honest, but from what I can see there's not a lot of success and certainly nothing sustained.

Problem is this guy isn't interested in football, he's a businessman and with that in mind he could easily borrow against Arsenal to buy another franchise, he wouldn't think twice about it either. If he liked football like Abrahmovic it might be different.

[Power n Glory]

I don't really understand all that American stuff to be honest, but from what I can see there's not a lot of success and certainly nothing sustained.

Problem is this guy isn't interested in football, he's a businessman and with that in mind he could easily borrow against Arsenal to buy another franchise, he wouldn't think twice about it either. If he liked football like Abrahmovic it might be different.

You admit your ignorance but still continue to talk without doing research. It's a bad habit.

[SMatthews]

The biggest worry will be all the handwringing and endless words written about it. Roll on the weekend.

[Özim]

You admit your ignorance but still continue to talk without doing research. It's a bad habit.

It's not ignorant at all, you posted the article and there's not a lot of success there, one superbowl from what I can tell, that's not particularly good. At Arsenal just 3 FA Cup again not particularly good.

It's not rocket science, what amazes me is you don't see the last 12 years as a good enough representation of the man, he's the guy that kept Wenger in charge for so long after all, so he always had to accept part of the blame for our failure because he could do something about it and never did up until last summe, most other rich owners would have got rid years ago.

[Power n Glory]

It's not ignorant at all, you posted the article and there's not a lot of success there, one superbowl from what I can tell, that's not particularly good. At Arsenal just 3 FA Cup again not particularly good.

It's not rocket science, what amazes me is you don't see the last 12 years as a good enough representation of the man, he's the guy that kept Wenger in charge for so long after all, so he always had to accept part of the blame for our failure.

You couldn't even take the time to read the article properly so attempting to explain the American sport system, what division, conference titles mean, making the playoffs, salary caps and draft system is a bit pointless.

You'll find something to be miserable about eitherway. Knock yourself out.

[Özim]

You couldn't even take the time to read the article properly so attempting to explain the American sport system, what division, conference titles mean, making the playoffs, salary caps and draft system is a bit pointless.

You'll find something to be miserable about eitherway. Knock yourself out.

I can't no and I can't say I care much about American sport either but even if you look at his clubs, the MLS club won one title since 2004 (pretty poor), his ice hockey team won one Stanley cup in countless years (again a poor return), nothing with his basketball team (again in 18 odd years) and his American football team one Superbowl in 23 years.

That's not exactly great.

What I do know and what's relevant which what he's done since being at Arsenal (the same sport and the same club) and that makes for sorry reading, you can sugar coat it with nonsense articles about American sports which aren't really that relevant if you like but it doesn't change that.

Fact is he owns the club 100%, can borrow against it if he wishes and can pay dividends and management fees as he pleases, that cannot be seen as a good thing, especially when he has zero interest in the sport of football.

[Power n Glory]

Again, if you knew a little about American sports, you'd know that it's rare to see a small pocket of teams dominate the league year after year like we have seen with Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and now City. It only tends to happen if you have a very special player on your hands or team like a Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron or Curry.

Have a look at the last time the Eagles won the Superbowl. Or the last time Chicago Bulls won a title since Jordan retired? Outside of the Lakers and Boston, you won't find teams that have won a shit load of titles in the NBA. Even major franchises like LA and Boston have decades where they haven't won a title.

[Globalgunner]

The American sports system is designed to spread around the success. The least performing team in the league gets the 1st round picks of fresh talent. Like said above you need a 1 in a generation player to dominate and even then (Lebron James) its sometimes not enough.

If Kroenke lets us spend what we earn and isnt slow to dump a non performer like Wenger. we can be as okay as you can expect. My fear is that everyone is upping their game, Even teams like Everton, Hammers, Fulham are getting aspirational, speculating with large budgets to make the next grade. We Arsenal have fallen to the 2nd tier already, courtesy of U Know Who. Our next 3 seasons are very critical if we are not to fall into the 3rd tier. Really wish Gazidis was staying as he already knows the lay of the land. If we have to hire his replacement we will have to poach someone from another PL team.

[Power n Glory]

With Sven and Raul on board along with Emery, I think there is enough there to push for success. I hope Gazidis also stays. He's helped to restructure the club and it would be a shame to lose him now.

[Edinburgh Gooner]

Could do with NQ back, he, as far as i know, knows quite a bit about the world of business.

[hobson's choice]

I don't really understand all that American stuff to be honest, but from what I can see there's not a lot of success and certainly nothing sustained.

Problem is this guy isn't interested in football, he's a businessman and with that in mind he could easily borrow against Arsenal to buy another franchise, he wouldn't think twice about it either. If he liked football like Abrahmovic it might be different.

Put like this, the same thing we as Arsenal fans complain about are the same exact things The Rams, Nuggets and Aves fans complain about


Last season the Rams were good, and look to be good again this season. Cause they were so bad for so long that they were able to stockpile great young talent through the draft(the worst teams gets the pick of the best amateur talent).

But when those players contracts are up, there's a good chance he won't spend money to keep em.

And he also kept a Coach for just about a decade who's average win loss record was 7-9 or 8-8 per season

[hobson's choice]

With Sven and Raul on board along with Emery, I think there is enough there to push for success. I hope Gazidis also stays. He's helped to restructure the club and it would be a shame to lose him now.

His son might be different. But Stan simply doesn't give a fukk .

[Coney]

The American sports system is designed to spread around the success. The least performing team in the league gets the 1st round picks of fresh talent. Like said above you need a 1 in a generation player to dominate and even then (Lebron James) its sometimes not enough.

If Kroenke lets us spend what we earn and isnt slow to dump a non performer like Wenger. we can be as okay as you can expect. My fear is that everyone is upping their game, Even teams like Everton, Hammers, Fulham are getting aspirational, speculating with large budgets to make the next grade. We Arsenal have fallen to the 2nd tier already, courtesy of U Know Who. Our next 3 seasons are very critical if we are not to fall into the 3rd tier. Really wish Gazidis was staying as he already knows the lay of the land. If we have to hire his replacement we will have to poach someone from another PL team.

Agree on the US comparison not being completely valid - they fix how players are shared between the clubs and that is obviously very different from over here.

I can't say I'm happy about having one owner of the whole club, especially someone who is not Arsenal and/or football through and through.

However, if Kroenke is going to get a return on his investment (which is presumably why he is doing it) then he needs to make sure that the Arsenal is reasonably successful. If we go right down the table then the revenue is going to fall away and so is the value of his investment. So hopefully he will feel obliged to make sure we put in a serious challenge for some silverware on a regular basis to avoid losing money. Not the greatest reason for trying to make us successful, but if we do still complete realistically, I won't mind so much.

Time will tell. Not overly concerned about the first couple of games - if we win them, great, if not, it is not an immediate worry as it is a new manager with two tough games to begin on. If we are looking bad towards December, then we can worry.

[Özim]

As someone said American sport is very different but even there his cubs haven't really been a great success since he's owned them. As for him having to keep us competitive, that's true but realistically getting top 4 sometimes and winning the odd FA or Carling cup will do that as has been proven by Wengers' tenure, he doesn't need us to win the league or CL or indeed compete regularly.