Match Reaction vs Citeh (home).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Stupid sport anyway.

[SMatthews]

The fans clearing out en masse is the most embarrassing thing about today.

[Goonermerree]

Guendouzi was the high point for me.

[Master Splinter]

Just have to hope Emery doesn't have blind spots for players that continuously let the team down like WUMger did.

Cech, Xhaka, Ozil and a goal-hanging Ramsey can't be given half a season to play their way out of the team. None of them are young or even relatively new to the club or league.

[Goonermerree]

Just have to hope Emery doesn't have blind spots for players that continuously let the team down like WUMger did.

Cech, Xhaka, Ozil and a goal-hanging Ramsey can't be given half a season to play their way out of the team. None of them are young or even relatively new to the club or league.

Agree

[Master Splinter]

Guendouzi was the high point for me.

Lichtsteiner and Lacazette both played well.

Lichtseiner is an amazing scrote too.

[Goonermerree]

Lichtsteiner and Lacazette both played well.

Lichtseiner is an amazing scrote too.
Douzi is young and needs to learn his craft and did OK. I've seen Laca roastng shots over the bar before, the other guy is in the final throws of his career.

[Power n Glory]

Guendouzi was the high point for me.

Pretty good isn't he. Held his own against City.

[Letters]

#EmeryOut
#WengerIn
#BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor
#LettersWozRight

Meh. Didn’t see it but you need to win games like this to be title contenders, I think we all knew we wouldn’t be this season.

[Goonermerree]

Pretty good isn't he. Held his own against City.

I like him and he moves with urgency.

[dostoy]

I thought Guendozy was shit, he looked weak and slow.

Did Ozil play ?

Lichtsteiner did quite well I thought, its going to be a long season but they won't have to play the best team in the country every week.

Until Ozil and shocker (Xhaka) leave Arsenal, there are going to be many lost games.

[Goonermerree]

#EmeryOut
#WengerIn
#BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor
#LettersWozRight

Meh. Didn’t see it but you need to win games like this to be title contenders, I think we all knew we wouldn’t be this season.

If we're still in 15th spot by Christmas it will be Emery out.

[Goonermerree]

Early days, playing the Champions, we have to give Emery a chance and see how we do against, well, other teams.

[dostoy]

Pretty good isn't he. Held his own against City.

He was terrible, it looked like a small, weak child, playing against men.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He was terrible, it looked like a small, weak child, playing against men.

Well he's 19 so that wouldn't be inaccurate. He made many mistakes but didn't stop demanding the ball at any point which is good.

[Globalgunner]

Welcome to the new Arsenal, very similar to the old Arsenal. Weak in defence, unsure in midfield and clueless up front. Cech, Xhaka, Ramsey, Ozil. Must get out of the team for us to make any headway. Surely the manager must soon realise this?

[Power n Glory]

Just have to hope Emery doesn't have blind spots for players that continuously let the team down like WUMger did.

Cech, Xhaka, Ozil and a goal-hanging Ramsey can't be given half a season to play their way out of the team. None of them are young or even relatively new to the club or league.

Agreed. Seeing the starting line up, the game played out how I expected. We discussed the problem with Xhaka, Ramsey and Ozil before the season kicked off.

If Emery wouldn't have played Douzi and went for the trio, we'd have been overrun completely.

[Goonermerree]

Well he's 19 so that wouldn't be inaccurate. He made many mistakes but didn't stop demanding the ball at any point which is good.

I think he played with confidence and looked to take responsibility., more than some of our other players.

[Mac76]

Early days, playing the Champions, we have to give Emery a chance and see how we do against, well, other teams.

But to not play Torreira after his World Cup performances was criminal and i for one can't believe he made that choice when it was so obvious we've been crying out for just that player to shore us up defensively

[Power n Glory]

He was terrible, it looked like a small, weak child, playing against men.

You've said some bullshit about Monreal nit being good enough so fuck your opinion. :lol:

[Power n Glory]

I like him and he moves with urgency.

We'll have to see how he and Torreira get on. Xhaka or Ramsey is a no for me.

[Goonermerree]

But to not play Torreira after his World Cup performances was criminal and i for one can't believe he made that choice when it was so obvious we've been crying out for just that player to shore us up defensively

True, let's hope he's learned a lot today Pre-season friendly's are not the same as competitive matches, he may need to rethink a few things.

[dostoy]

You've said some bullshit about Monreal nit being good enough so fuck your opinion. :lol:

We will see how good Monreal is when he plays at left back, he is slow, very slow.

You probably thought that Guendozy was good today and that Monreal is the Premier Leagues quickest player.

Some people are fucking clueless and cannot see the blatantly obvious.

[dostoy]

Well he's 19 so that wouldn't be inaccurate. He made many mistakes but didn't stop demanding the ball at any point which is good.

Who genuinely thought that Guendozy played well today ?

He was terrible along with Ozil and Xhaka.

Cech played well and kept Arsenal in it, Ramsey is average as usual.

Emery has a lot to learn but it was his first real match.

[Chippy]

Agreed. Seeing the starting line up, the game played out how I expected. We discussed the problem with Xhaka, Ramsey and Ozil before the season kicked off.

If Emery wouldn't have played Douzi and went for the trio, we'd have been overrun completely.

Did Xhaka get an extension on his contract in the Summer? If so, wtf!
Lets hope Dick Emery sorts out the dead wood in January.
Xhaka, Mustafi, Ozil etc.

[dostoy]

Did Xhaka get an extension on his contract in the Summer? If so, wtf!
Lets hope Dick Emery sorts out the dead wood in January.
Xhaka, Mustafi, Ozil etc.

Dick Emery.

LOL

[SMatthews]

Who genuinely thought that Guendozy played well today ?

He was terrible along with Ozil and Xhaka.

Cech played well and kept Arsenal in it, Ramsey is average as usual.

Emery has a lot to learn but it was his first real match.

Send him a few tips on email. He's the amateur here after all

[Özim]

I was expecting us to win, but when I saw the lineup I knew we'd lose, that was poor by Emery IMO.

Mustafi, Xhaka and Cech and not starting Lacazette was wrong IMO. I was disappointed with the performance today, didn't play for the new manager at all, IMO there's no hope for many of these Wenger players, to set in their ways and too much in the comfort zone, it's what worried me about our summers dealings, not enough faces out of the door and not enough quality brought in.

Clearly Emery is hamstrung by the club not backing him fully, but the team selection today is on him, Torreira, Lacazette and Leno should have played, not playing a keeper you paid 20 million for is just bizarre.

Anyway onward and upwards, hopefuly he learns hs lesson and realises these Wenger players are losers and that he need to drop them like a stone, giving Xhaka and Chambers new contracts was also bizarre, they should have been sold IMO, but again don't think that was down to Emery.

Guendouzi has potential but I don't think he's ready to be a regular starter too raw. Truth is this season is going to be a difficult one, what I want to see is Emery building a team in his image and phasing out the Wenger way and players.

Today however we were totally outclassed by a team who are very very good and have an amazing squad, had they put their chances it could (and perhaps should have been) a cricket score.

Anyway got to give Emery a chance and as long as he shows he's willing to make the right changes and not back players who are plainly not good enough I'll be happy enough.

[Penguin]

I expected us to lose but I thought we'd at least go down with a fight and show some balls. I supposed that's too much for Arsenal fans to ask for now.

The usual suspects. Xhaka is a liability, if there's one player to point the finger at for the goals we conceded it's him. He also lost the ball more than once in dangerous positions which City failed to take advantage of. He has no business even being on the bench. He's not good enough.

Ozil, Ramsey, Mkhi, Bellerin all shite. No chance of getting top four with 50% of our XI giving us half arsed performances like that.

Cech was good at the actual goalkeeping. He made some good saves, especially that Aguero one on one. But if Emery insists on the keeper playing the ball out it won't work. Either you let Cech go with his instincts and smash the ball as far away from his goal as possible, or you go with Leno who I assume knows how to play the ball out safely. One or the other.

It'll be interesting to see how Emery responds. Will he drop Xhaka? Will he change the formation? Will he give this bunch of pussies the hairdryer treatment?

[Özim]

Did Xhaka get an extension on his contract in the Summer? If so, wtf!
Lets hope Dick Emery sorts out the dead wood in January.
Xhaka, Mustafi, Ozil etc.

Yea really odd decision, the guy is a waste of space.

[Özim]

I expected us to lose but I thought we'd at least go down with a fight and show some balls. I supposed that's too much for Arsenal fans to ask for now.

The usual suspects. Xhaka is a liability, if there's one player to point the finger at for the goals we conceded it's him. He also lost the ball more than once in dangerous positions which City failed to take advantage of. He has no business even being on the bench. He's not good enough.

Ozil, Ramsey, Mkhi, Bellerin all shite. No chance of getting top four with 50% of our XI giving us half arsed performances like that.

Cech was good at the actual goalkeeping. He made some good saves, especially that Aguero one on one. But if Emery insists on the keeper playing the ball out it won't work. Either you let Cech go with his instincts and smash the ball as far away from his goal as possible, or you go with Leno who I assume knows how to play the ball out safely. One or the other.

It'll be interesting to see how Emery responds. Will he drop Xhaka? Will he change the formation? Will he give this bunch of pussies the hairdryer treatment?

Being a keeper is more than making saves though, Cech can't save penalties for toffee, can't distribute the ball at all and is prone to errors, almost kicked the ball into his own net today when under no pressure, ended up giving away a corner. I just find this club odd, why would you sign a keeper for 20 million who is 26 and then not make him number 1, that's just unheard of.

[dostoy]

Send him a few tips on email. He's the amateur here after all

I just need his email address.

Do you have it ?

[Power n Glory]

I was expecting us to win, but when I saw the lineup I knew we'd lose, that was poor by Emery IMO.

Mustafi, Xhaka and Cech and not starting Lacazette was wrong IMO. I was disappointed with the performance today, didn't play for the new manager at all, IMO there's no hope for many of these Wenger players, to set in their ways and too much in the comfort zone, it's what worried me about our summers dealings, not enough faces out of the door and not enough quality brought in.

Clearly Emery is hamstrung by the club not backing him fully, but the team selection today is on him, Torreira, Lacazette and Leno should have played, not playing a keeper you paid 20 million for is just bizarre.

Anyway onward and upwards, hopefuly he learns hs lesson and realises these Wenger players are losers and that he need to drop them like a stone, giving Xhaka and Chambers new contracts was also bizarre, they should have been sold IMO, but again don't think that was down to Emery.

Guendouzi has potential but I don't think he's ready to be a regular starter too raw. Truth is this season is going to be a difficult one, what I want to see is Emery building a team in his image and phasing out the Wenger way and players.

Today however we were totally outclassed by a team who are very very good and have an amazing squad, had they put their chances it could (and perhaps should have been) a cricket score.

Anyway got to give Emery a chance and as long as he shows he's willing to make the right changes and not back players who are plainly not good enough I'll be happy enough.

What a bold faced lie! You didn't expect us to win. You said you had no expectations for the game or season. A draw at best! :lol: Stop lying.

[dostoy]

I was expecting us to win, but when I saw the lineup I knew we'd lose, that was poor by Emery IMO.

Mustafi, Xhaka and Cech and not starting Lacazette was wrong IMO. I was disappointed with the performance today, didn't play for the new manager at all, IMO there's no hope for many of these Wenger players, to set in their ways and too much in the comfort zone, it's what worried me about our summers dealings, not enough faces out of the door and not enough quality brought in.

Clearly Emery is hamstrung by the club not backing him fully, but the team selection today is on him, Torreira, Lacazette and Leno should have played, not playing a keeper you paid 20 million for is just bizarre.

Anyway onward and upwards, hopefuly he learns hs lesson and realises these Wenger players are losers and that he need to drop them like a stone, giving Xhaka and Chambers new contracts was also bizarre, they should have been sold IMO, but again don't think that was down to Emery.

Guendouzi has potential but I don't think he's ready to be a regular starter too raw. Truth is this season is going to be a difficult one, what I want to see is Emery building a team in his image and phasing out the Wenger way and players.

Today however we were totally outclassed by a team who are very very good and have an amazing squad, had they put their chances it could (and perhaps should have been) a cricket score.

Anyway got to give Emery a chance and as long as he shows he's willing to make the right changes and not back players who are plainly not good enough I'll be happy enough.

I agree with a lot of that especially the bit about Guendozy.

The bit I don't agree with is the tiny bit at the start, about expecting to win.

I would never expect Arsenal to beat Man City ever again.

[Letters]

If we're still in 15th spot by Christmas it will be Emery out.

Unless this season is a complete car crash and we end up in mid table he pretty much has a free pass this season.
We were a million miles away from title contenders last season, even allowing for City’s insane form, so expecting a title challenge this year is unrealistic. What I am expecting is improvement and a push for top 4. I don’t think a defeat today tells us anything we didn’t know. As is traditional I didn’t see the game so can’t sensibly comment on how we played. As always though I would argue against over-reacting to what is, after all, Emery’s first ever competitive game.

[Özim]

What a bold faced lie! You didn't expect us to win. You said you had no expectations for the game or season. A draw at best! :lol: Stop lying.

I meant wasn't, chill out.

[Goonermerree]

Unless this season is a complete car crash and we end up in mid table he pretty much has a free pass this season.
We were a million miles away from title contenders last season, even allowing for City’s insane form, so expecting a title challenge this year is unrealistic. What I am expecting is improvement and a push for top 4. I don’t think a defeat today tells us anything we didn’t know. As is traditional I didn’t see the game so can’t sensibly comment on how we played. As always though I would argue against over-reacting to what is, after all, Emery’s first ever competitive game.

My post was tongue-in-cheek, but we weren't any better in this match than we were in the last few years/ matches. Emery needs to be given time though

[Goonermerree]

I meant wasn't, chill out.

I thought you did.

[Özim]

I agree with a lot of that especially the bit about Guendozy.

The bit I don't agree with is the tiny bit at the start, about expecting to win.

I would never expect Arsenal to beat Man City ever again.

No sorry meant to say wasn't expecting us to win, always thought at best we'd get a draw or lose (leaning towards the latter).

What I wanted to see was a new style of play, some hunger and some change basically (and a different lineup), disappointed I didn't.

[Penguin]

Unless this season is a complete car crash and we end up in mid table he pretty much has a free pass this season.
We were a million miles away from title contenders last season, even allowing for City’s insane form, so expecting a title challenge this year is unrealistic. What I am expecting is improvement and a push for top 4. I don’t think a defeat today tells us anything we didn’t know. As is traditional I didn’t see the game so can’t sensibly comment on how we played. As always though I would argue against over-reacting to what is, after all, Emery’s first ever competitive game.

No one honestly expected us to be title challengers but we've all had enough of these weak, gutless performances. Emery has some serious decisions to make.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I thought we’d win by at least 2 clear goals.

So this feels like a loss to me.

[Letters]

No one honestly expected us to be title challengers but we've all had enough of these weak, gutless performances. Emery has some serious decisions to make.

As discussed, I didn’t see it but I agree (and worryingly, with Zim) that the performance, or maybe lack thereof, is a bigger concern than the result. It’s fine to lose games, it happens, but I expect them to fight at least. If that didn’t happen then it’s disappointing. Will try and catch MoTD2

[Power n Glory]

As discussed, I didn’t see it but I agree (and worryingly, with Zim) that the performance, or maybe lack thereof, is a bigger concern than the result. It’s fine to lose games, it happens, but I expect them to fight at least. If that didn’t happen then it’s disappointing. Will try and catch MoTD2
Disagree with the lack of desire part. It looked nothing like our worst games over the last few years. You'll see for youself.

[Özim]

Lack of width is a worry for us, we really should have signed a winger in the summer, we lack pace on the wings, Mhiki really doesn't provide the width we need, I mentioned Gelson Martinez and think we should have been in for him given that he was available on a free.

Chelsea is up next and to be honest I expect us to lose that too away from home, the lineup will be important, if he plays the lineup he played today (minus MN) we'll lose for sure, Leno, Lacazette and Torreira need to start for us to have any chance.

The likes of Cech and Xhaka are the past and need to be phased out, probably play Mavropanos ahead of Mustafi, to see what he can offer to be honest. Ozil was awful today, but we don't really have a decent alternative to him to be honest but he needs to improve 100%, Mhiki wasn't much better, been disappointed with what he's brought to the team since we brought him in thus far.

Shame we didn't get that young guy from PSG as well, would have been good to have some options we can try, I feel we're a bit restricted and the squad lacks something in areas (defence and to some extent midfield).

[hobson's choice]

In my 36 years on this earth, one off the things I've learnt, is that, Greatness is easily recognizable. And when I look at Emery, the word great doesn't come to mind at all. Slightly above average, now that comes to mind.

His track record didn't convince, and just looking at his demeanour today, convinces me even less.

Oh well

[SMatthews]

No one honestly expected us to be title challengers but we've all had enough of these weak, gutless performances. Emery has some serious decisions to make.

And it's going to take most of the season to stop them from happening and even longer to get together the team he wants to play how he wants.

[Letters]

In my 36 years on this earth, one off the things I've learnt, is that, Greatness is easily recognizable. And when I look at Emery, the word great doesn't come to mind at all. Slightly above average, now that comes to mind.

His track record didn't convince, and just looking at his demeanour today, convinces me even less.

Oh well

Are you seriously claiming you recognised greatness in Wenger (and whatever you think of the last decade or so, the first 8 years were indisputably great) after his first game?
I call bullshit on that.
Not that I’m claiming Emery is going to be great, but give the chap a chance.

[SMatthews]

In my 36 years on this earth, one off the things I've learnt, is that, Greatness is easily recognizable. And when I look at Emery, the word great doesn't come to mind at all. Slightly above average, now that comes to mind.

His track record didn't convince, and just looking at his demeanour today, convinces me even less.

Oh well

I'm not sure many Utd fans saw 'greatness' for the first five years of Fergie's reign.

Nor when a spectacled school teacher turned up at Highbury back in 96 trying to tell us and the players he was a football manager.

[Mac76]

So this feels like a loss to me.

Well that's because we, err, lost... ?

[Bumble]

It would have been better had we not played the best team in the country but this seemed very similar to last season in terms of performance, lack of energy or looking like scoring. But it was City and they will win the league at a canter. Plus points, regularly I was able to turn over to the cricket which was going a whole lot better and alot more enjoyable.

I still think we will finish 4th and I wouldn't be surprised if we draw next weekend against the Chavs.

[Gooner23]

Find it bizarre singling out Guendouzi for criticism. Made a few mistakes but for a 19 year old making his prem debut I thought he did pretty well.

For me it was the established players who didn't deliver, the front three all poor, Xhaka and Ramsey showing the same old flaws.

Defensively better than I expected through, helped by Lichsteiners introduction.

Torreira has to start the next game. Hopefully Monreal is back as well.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

In my 36 years on this earth, one off the things I've learnt, is that, Greatness is easily recognizable. And when I look at Emery, the word great doesn't come to mind at all. Slightly above average, now that comes to mind.

His track record didn't convince, and just looking at his demeanour today, convinces me even less.

Oh well

They can't all be as great as Moussa Sissoko.

[Marc Overmars]

Emery has a big job on his hands but today was a bit of a free hit. City are superior to us in pretty much every area on the pitch. Not particularly bothered about this result if I’m honest, it was half expected.

On we go.

[Power n Glory]

Lack of width is a worry for us, we really should have signed a winger in the summer, we lack pace on the wings, Mhiki really doesn't provide the width we need, I mentioned Gelson Martinez and think we should have been in for him given that he was available on a free.

Chelsea is up next and to be honest I expect us to lose that too away from home, the lineup will be important, if he plays the lineup he played today (minus MN) we'll lose for sure, Leno, Lacazette and Torreira need to start for us to have any chance.

The likes of Cech and Xhaka are the past and need to be phased out, probably play Mavropanos ahead of Mustafi, to see what he can offer to be honest. Ozil was awful today, but we don't really have a decent alternative to him to be honest but he needs to improve 100%, Mhiki wasn't much better, been disappointed with what he's brought to the team since we brought him in thus far.

Shame we didn't get that young guy from PSG as well, would have been good to have some options we can try, I feel we're a bit restricted and the squad lacks something in areas (defence and to some extent midfield).

Mkhitaryan and Ozil down the wing just looked awful. Not enough productivity. All they'll look to do is cut inside to play neat passes. No powerful runs down the flank and neither look to have an eye for goal. They were weak on the counter attacks. Lacazette and Aubameyang have to start.

[Marc Overmars]

Ozil just isn't going be of much use in these games, he rarely rises to the occasion and drags us to a result against the odds.

But he'll create 67 chances in one game against teams like Huddersfield and Bournemouth and prove his worth to us.

[Power n Glory]

Ozil just isn't going be of much use in these games, he rarely rises to the occasion and drags us to a result against the odds.

But he'll create 67 chances in one game against teams like Huddersfield and Bournemouth and prove his worth to us.

It's a typical performance from Ozil on this sort of occasion. We'll see what he can do against the lower ranked teams but I'm not holding my breath.

[fakeyank]

There were many negatives today. Biggest one was Ozil.. man is a fraud. Fuck that turd and sell his arse to anyone paying 23$ for him. Ramsey was clueless as usual.. I wonder what Emery sees in him that he wants to extend the guys contract. Let him leave... yesterday! Xhaka was useless as well.. what is his best position? The bench?

Oh, and Cech is not the keeper to help you play out of the back.. especially against a team like City. I'd have started Leno. Also, why do we have 4 GK's in the squad? Time to offload Cech to China or Japan.

I saw some positives today though. I thought Guendozi (sp?) was brilliant for his first game. Lichsteiner looked really good and showed what experience can do. I was also very impressed with Lacazette and his link up play when he came on... AND the biggest positive for me today was how we didnt look to sideway pass throughout the game. It almost seemed like we wanted to move the ball forward and attack the opposition (even though we failed miserably at it.. intent was there).

[selassie]

In all honesty I expected us to lose. We are miles behind clubs like Man City & Liverpool. Heck we are behind the Spuds if we are brutally honest.

All I want from this season is to see some kind of progress, I want to see crappy players sold, a new identity in this team, a team that fights for their badge and manager.

I don’t expect top 4 this season, I think we have way too much work to do but I expect progress!

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I thought Ozil was just very oddly on a different wavelength to everybody else for the entire game. Not quite sure why, but I didn't think it was an abject performance from him....more disjointed, but I get that many feels disappointed. He made his bed when he got his wage increase and so get's little leeway.

I thought Lacazette wasn't the issue, but I do wish at times he would calm down in front of goal. Still get the feeling he is going for power too often.

Xhaka's performance was identical to his ridiculous performance(s) this time last season. Passively running around the field without any real purpose or sense of knowing what he's supposed to be doing, ball watching, giving the ball away playing a hospital pass and falling over. I'm aghast that so many people wanted him in the starting lineup for this season.

At this level you can't watch a player in the middle of the park, fail to understand what the fuhk he's actually doing in our favour and want him to remain there doing it. Guendouzi showed him up today, even with his errors, but that is no surprise to me.

It's not much consolation, but I thought Bellerin was good today and thought AMN was too and losing him was a big blow. The game was fairly open which I enjoyed from the point of view of seeing us move the ball from our third to their third much quicker. Scant consolation as we lost, but I prefer to see us move the ball in that way.

Mhki might as well have not been there most of the game. Forgot he was even playing for large portions.

[AFC Leveller]

The fact is City are on another level to us, to a man they are better than us and can bring on 60m worth of talent of the bench. However, the problems from Wenger's ear wont disappear overnight, its gonna take at least 2 seasons to see real improvement. Xhaka, Ramsay, the defense etc. were the main culprits and Unai Emery will to act sooner than Wenger did, he needs to start Toreira ahead of Xhaka and play Lacazette from the start. That shot from Laca would have changed the game, it was only 1-0 and we were still in it.

Anyway, this season is all about bedding in the new coaching staff and system, i liked the effort and the energy and i think we will see better performances this season.

[Power n Glory]

I thought Ozil was just very oddly on a different wavelength to everybody else for the entire game. Not quite sure why, but I didn't think it was an abject performance from him....more disjointed, but I get that many feels disappointed. He made his bed when he got his wage increase and so get's little leeway.

I thought Lacazette wasn't the issue, but I do wish at times he would calm down in front of goal. Still get the feeling he is going for power too often.

Xhaka's performance was identical to his ridiculous performance(s) this time last season. Passively running around the field without any real purpose or sense of knowing what he's supposed to be doing, ball watching, giving the ball away playing a hospital pass and falling over. I'm aghast that so many people wanted him in the starting lineup for this season.

At this level you can't watch a player in the middle of the park, fail to understand what the fuhk he's actually doing in our favour and want him to remain there doing it. Guendouzi showed him up today, even with his errors, but that is no surprise to me.

It's not much consolation, but I thought Bellerin was good today and thought AMN was too and losing him was a big blow. The game was fairly open which I enjoyed from the point of view of seeing us move the ball from our third to their third much quicker. Scant consolation as we lost, but I prefer to see us move the ball in that way.

Mhki might as well have not been there most of the game. Forgot he was even playing for large portions.

Ozil is always on a different wavelength. For a playmaker with his passing ability, don’t you find it odd that he hasn’t formed an understanding with any of the players? I remember stories from players who played with Bergkamp, Cesc or even David Beckham….as soon as they these players on the ball, they make quick eye contact and know the sort of ball that’s going to be played. Sometimes something as little as eye contact isn’t even needed, they just know to expect the ball to come their way because said playmaker or more than capable of putting it on a plate for the strikers. That never seems to happen with Ozil despite now be surrounding with quicker players with an eye for goal like Aubameyang and Lacazette.

First half, we didn’t create much and Ozil did well to cover the flanks and defend. Second half he fluffed his lines a bit and we failed to really take advantage of our chances.

Lacazette made a positive impact once subbed on. You could see how he and Aubameyang will link up. I thought the chance you’re referring to, where Laca hit the cut back over was down to an overpowerd pass from Mkhitaryan. The pass was zipped under Laca’s feet and not in his path, I think Mkh was aiming for Ozil who was just behind Laca.

Mkh is a worry for me. No power or pace to his game for the wing. He has to do better than that. It was so poor, Danny Welbeck being a better option came to mind. Provided no defensive cover for AMN.

AMN had a really good moment going forwards where he dribbled through a few players but he was getting roasted and targeted by City. Lichtsteiner was better defensively and showed a moment where he wasn’t that slow getting forward. Shame about AMN’s injury though.

Xhaka just keeps on getting worse. Every theory and idea I’ve heard from fans of how he can be used better and it all being Wenger’s fault has really fallen apart. It looked as though he was playing a deeper role, like how he did in Germany, where he’s close to the CB’s collecting and distributing the ball. It was confident start for the opening few minutes but once City pressured him and he starting giving the ball away, he went missing and stopped looking for the ball. He wanted know parts of it and left Guendouzi to deal with the bulk of the work. A 19 year! When defending, Xhaka was coming way to deep and was on the defensive line way too often.

[Gooner23]

I don't think you can get away with having Mhiki and Ozil in the same team, certainly against top teams.

Based on yesterday's performance Torreira should be coming in for Xhaka. I think Lacazette made a strong case to start as well, even if that means moving Auba wider he can still be effective there with his pace and running in behind. I just think we need to find a way to get both on the pitch.

I feel for AMN as he clearly isn't comfortable at left back. He's obviously confident in his ability, but at times I think he's too complacent. Hopefully he'll be told to get tighter to his winger if he's playing full back. But ideally he will get more games in centre mid this season, he's clearly a talent.

Some positives for me;

Defence wasn't as bad as I was expecting (says a lot about where we are currently). Sokratis was solid and Mustafi played quite well. Lichsteiner adds a bit of steel. However an overall lack of pace, and Mustafi's guaranteed brainfarts will probably still come back to bite us though.

Guendouzi looks promising and will hopefully have the right coaching to improve. He always showed for the ball, looked to play positively and competed physically against seasoned international players. When he misjudged the bounce to let Aguero through my first thought was why the fuck was he left 1 on 1 at the back. At every level of football you get taught not to do that. That's on the coaches and senior players to spot and correct.

Auba and Laca seem to link up really well and I am hopeful they can form a formidable partnership.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think you can get away with having Mhiki and Ozil in the same team, certainly against top teams.

Based on yesterday's performance Torreira should be coming in for Xhaka. I think Lacazette made a strong case to start as well, even if that means moving Auba wider he can still be effective there with his pace and running in behind. I just think we need to find a way to get both on the pitch.

I feel for AMN as he clearly isn't comfortable at left back. He's obviously confident in his ability, but at times I think he's too complacent. Hopefully he'll be told to get tighter to his winger if he's playing full back. But ideally he will get more games in centre mid this season, he's clearly a talent.

Some positives for me;

Defence wasn't as bad as I was expecting (says a lot about where we are currently). Sokratis was solid and Mustafi played quite well. Lichsteiner adds a bit of steal. However an overall lack of pace, and Mustafi's guaranteed brainfarts will probably still come back to bite us though.

Guendouzi looks promising and will hopefully have the right coaching to improve. He always showed for the ball, looked to play positively and competed physically against seasoned international players. When he misjudged the bounce to let Aguero through my first thought was why the fuck was he left 1 on 1 at the back. At every level of football you get taught not to do that. That's on the coaches and senior players to spot and correct.

Auba and Laca seem to link up really well and I am hopeful they can form a formidable partnership.

I think we have to play Aubameyang. I was against it at first but we have no other options with that sort of speed and strength on the wing. Ozil and Mkh are just too weak to play on the counter attack. We’ll need a drastic improvement from them both. Heck, even Ramsey or Welbeck out wide looked a better option.

Agree on the positives. The defence had wobbles but looked better. Sokratis and Mustafi were ok. Guendouzi made mistakes but he never hid from the ball, fought to win possession and pressed hard. By far our best midfielder on the day. A 19 year old kid that came from Ligue 2!

[Gooner23]

If Liverpool can do it with Salah no reason why we cant make it work.

[Power n Glory]

If Liverpool can do it with Salah no reason why we cant make it work.

I was thinking of Liverpool. France as well. The way Lacazette was dropping deep to link up play....he definitely has more to his game that would help us out.

[Power n Glory]

Arseblog Player Ratings.


Arsenal 0-2 Man City – Player Ratings

GK Petr Cech, 6 – He made some very important saves, although he did look a bit unsure with the ball at his feet and only Guendouzi made more touches. However, he seemed to enjoy that part of it.

RB Hector Bellerin, 5.5 – Had our best chance of the first half, and the system Emery used left both full backs exposed quite often.

CB Shkodran Mustafi, 5.5 – Turned easily by Sterling early on, but didn’t dive in too much which is a good sign.

CB Sokratis, 5 – Being an aggressive central defender doesn’t mean you clobber the opposition, it’s how you try and close down the ball, and for both goals today he wasn’t as aggressive as he could have been in that regard.

LB Ainsley Maitland-Niles, 5 – Absolutely roasted down the left in the opening periods, after which it settled down a bit, but he’s a young guy playing out of position and he should have been given more protection and better guidance from the experienced defenders around him.

MF Matteo Guendouzi, 6.5 – There was a lot to like about his performance, particularly after he was poor for the goal and struggled in the opening 20-25 minutes. He worked hard, never hid, and those are positives, but there were times when his inexperience at this level was evident and he was lucky one bad mistake wasn’t punished with a City goal. Hopefully he’ll be a quick learner.

MF Granit Xhaka, 4.5 – Late back from the World Cup and hasn’t had as much pre-season preparation as some of the others, but he was still poor and rightly taken off.

MF Aaron Ramsey, 5 – We can only assume he was playing that far forward because he was instructed to, and he did produce some good moments in the first half, but he was hooked early in the second half to make way for Lacazette.

MF Mesut Ozil, 5 – Had some chances late in the second half which a player of his quality really should have done better with.

MF Henrikh Mkhitaryan, 4 – Invisible and lightweight.

FW Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, 5 – We never got him into the game at all.

Agree with most except I would have given Sokratis more than a 5.

[Özim]

I think it's a learning process for the team, but what I did think is that Emery made a mistake with the lineup, Xhaka definitely shouldn't have featured and Lacazette should have played as well.

In goal Cech can't pass and to be honest if you're signing a keeper for 20 odd million you really should play him, Cechs best days are behind him and we should be building for the future and that hopefully will be Leno, big kick in the teeth for him not to start after swaping Germany for England, he's 26 as well so not some kid.

As for the style, passing from the back and the movement required will take time to learn, City were great yesterday and they're a top top sides, we're so far behind it's unreal to be honest, totally outclassed and they should have been out of sight by half time (it kinda shows how far we've fallen).

Another issue is no width in the team, can't understand not signing a winger in the summer, there's no logic, there were players available some for free!

I'm beginning to feel like we might never be challengers again to be honest (as much as I don't want that obviously), it's a combination of the owner situation and having some guy who has no interest and the fact I'm not convinced we're really willing to spend what is required, which in modern day football (highlighted a bit by our summer transfer window) you need to.

As much as I'm happy with Emery he's not one of the elite coaches (hence the reason I wanted Simeone as my number 1 choice), his record is good but his stock was somewhat lower due to his issues at PSG, that's not to say that he couldn't produce a winning team, just that we never seem to aim for the best (likewise with signing players), which I think you need to to have a good chance of winning.

Time will tell anyway, but Kroenke taking over the club has really put a dampener for me, I never wanted this guy in charge he was just as much of a problem as Wenger was a he's the guy that let him carry on, anyway will back Emery and hope he can turn aroud our fortunes and pray he doesn't get hampered by the owner and his commitment to making money, meanwhile at least we're likely to see something different which can only be a good thing.

As for Ramsey, the guy shouldn't play until he's signed and if he won't just sell him, can't have another Ozil/Sanchez situation (though it's looking more and more likely by the day).

[I am invisible]

Feeling oddly deflated today, which is stupid really, because I expected us to lose, and wasn't expecting to see things really start to click under Emery until well into 2019. I guess thinking something and actually living with it are two very different things, and I wasn't quite as prepared for this slog as I thought I was.

(Also doesn't help that all our rivals started off with wins, despite all the talk of players returning late from the WC, and meltdowns at united, etc.)

Did the players at least look like they were playing with a little more effort and urgency? I'm not expecting the tactical side of things and the fluidity of our play to be anywhere close yet, but improved attitude shouldn't take any time.

One positive I can see from the match reports is that the new coach at least had no qualms about hooking Ramsey and Xhaka for underperforming - that's something.

Any word on AMN? How serious is that looking?

[Özim]

Feeling oddly deflated today, which is stupid really, because I expected us to lose, and wasn't expecting to see things really start to click under Emery until well into 2019. I guess thinking something and actually living with it are two very different things, and I wasn't quite as prepared for this slog as I thought I was.

(Also doesn't help that all our rivals started off with wins, despite all the talk of players returning late from the WC, and meltdowns at united, etc.)

Did the players at least look like they were playing with a little more effort and urgency? I'm not expecting the tactical side of things and the fluidity of our play to be anywhere close yet, but improved attitude shouldn't take any time.

One positive I can see from the match reports is that the new coach at least had no qualms about hooking Ramsey and Xhaka for underperforming - that's something.

Any word on AMN? How serious is that looking?

Yeah for me, what I would have expected was players keen to impress the new manager, just not enough energy for me, still looked stale, not enough desire and noone looked rejuvenated (which often is the case when a new manager comes in), which makes you question what some of these players actually offer.

IMO it's because these Wenger players have got use to an easy ride, they're not winners, they don't really care that much, overpaid and overrated and that's the reason I'm very keen for us to get rid of most of the Wenger players and was against the new contracts handed out to them, they just don't have it in them to win, they don't want it enough.

Ozil, Mhiki, Xhaka didn't look hungry or motivated, it's not to do with playing well it's to do with showing real hunger and effort ont the pitch and it goes for numerous others as well, to be honest Guendouzi put them to shame, yes he made mistakes but he actually showed some desire unlike 90% of these former Wenger players.

Bit too much like old Arsenal for me and the reason is too many Wenger players.

I agree with some of the points this guy comes out with


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLzwEexc54Y

Re his point about Liverpool they actually had already spent all the Coutinho money bar 100 million so spend net 150 million this summer.

[dostoy]

Feeling oddly deflated today, which is stupid really, because I expected us to lose, and wasn't expecting to see things really start to click under Emery until well into 2019. I guess thinking something and actually living with it are two very different things, and I wasn't quite as prepared for this slog as I thought I was.

(Also doesn't help that all our rivals started off with wins, despite all the talk of players returning late from the WC, and meltdowns at united, etc.)

Did the players at least look like they were playing with a little more effort and urgency? I'm not expecting the tactical side of things and the fluidity of our play to be anywhere close yet, but improved attitude shouldn't take any time.

One positive I can see from the match reports is that the new coach at least had no qualms about hooking Ramsey and Xhaka for underperforming - that's something.

Any word on AMN? How serious is that looking?

Neither of our rivals won.

Burnley and Everton both drew.

Arsenal are miles behind the big 5.

[Marc Overmars]

Feeling oddly deflated today, which is stupid really, because I expected us to lose, and wasn't expecting to see things really start to click under Emery until well into 2019. I guess thinking something and actually living with it are two very different things, and I wasn't quite as prepared for this slog as I thought I was.

(Also doesn't help that all our rivals started off with wins, despite all the talk of players returning late from the WC, and meltdowns at united, etc.)

Did the players at least look like they were playing with a little more effort and urgency? I'm not expecting the tactical side of things and the fluidity of our play to be anywhere close yet, but improved attitude shouldn't take any time.

One positive I can see from the match reports is that the new coach at least had no qualms about hooking Ramsey and Xhaka for underperforming - that's something.

Any word on AMN? How serious is that looking?

I think it's just a little bit sobering when you realise how far off we actually are from being a fully functional and cohesive team. Expectations need to be managed, after all we're coming off 6th and 5th place finishes and old habits die hard.

It was never going to be as simple as changing the coach, it's about ridding ourselves of this loser mentality, bringing in a different culture and being brave and ruthless enough to try new things. I believe Emery will be given time at least, unless he turns out to be even worse than Wenger was during his latter years.

[SMatthews]

I think it's just a little bit sobering when you realise how far off we actually are from being a fully functional and cohesive team. Expectations need to be managed, after all we're coming off 6th and 5th place finishes and old habits die hard.

It was never going to be as simple as changing the coach, it's about ridding ourselves of this loser mentality, bringing in a different culture and being brave and ruthless enough to try new things. I believe Emery will be given time at least, unless he turns out to be even worse than Wenger was during his latter years.

The only comparison you can make is how Utd dealt with life after Fergie. Emery at least has a history of winning stuff which counts for something. We may have to accept that the transition could take another 2/3 managers before we are back on the right track again. We will never spend the money they do at City and Utd, so it will come down to the right coach maximising his resources. It’s going to take some time to do that. Emery will get at least two years unless he has a complete car crash, then we’ll see where we are then.

[IBK]

Disagree with the lack of desire part. It looked nothing like our worst games over the last few years. You'll see for youself.

I agree with you. I thought we tried and didn't let our heads drop like our last couple of games against Citeh. I find the criticism of Emery a bit unjustified. The only way he is going to be able to make progress is to see how we play in competitive games and I am not sure there is too much to be read into a game against league champions who have now had since 2016 to learn a devastating brand of football under the best manager in the world. I think much of the disappointment is down to the fact that this was a reality check about where we are and that we cannot expect instant progress under the new manager. I am happy to be patient and see how we progress from here.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I didn't think AMN was getting done that badly but so many people have said it post game, maybe I have developed a blindspot with him!

His run forward was very positive and perfectly executed tackle late in the box stood out. Even when he was running back a few times he eventually thwarted the counter. I like that he's good on 1 v 1's, good in tight spaces, athletic, quick, has the recovery/repeat sprints thing going on pretty well bla bla bla and I think losing him is a massive blow.

I actually thought Mustafi and Sokratis were pretty good as was Bellerin. With the way the game was going we might as well have had Welbeck out wide as he wouldn't have completely gone missing from the game like Mhki. What Ozil tried didn't come off and he had too many misunderstandings with the rest of the attack, but that isn't quite the same as completely going missing. I think this game came a little too soon for him and on another day one of the things he did would have come off.

Seeing as all the best sides tend to employ the high press in some guise or another.....what really is the point in playing Xhaka in any of these games? I don't really know the point in starting him period. For the love of God, I really hope Torreira plays every last game till the season ends. I would have no problem seeing Guendouzi play the next game despite his faults because I think he'll learn and you can see he offers something.

[Power n Glory]

Emery will have to be ruthless with his decisions over the coming months because I don’t think he’s going to get the time of day. I don’t like what I’ve just seen on AFTV from Lee and I was just listening to Arsecast and the report of how the fans reacted to the game also has me concerned. We have to try and shake off the negativity from what Wenger left behind. The only way to do that is for Emery to be ruthless and start the cull.

The performances from Xhaka, Ozil, Mkhitaryan and Ramsey were too reminiscent of what we saw under Wenger. He can’t persist with them. On the one hand we need to give the new coach time to get his ideas across but on the other hand, if he sticks it out with certain players for too long, he’ll never get the fans on board.

There were positives from the game. Bellerin looked better. The defensive line as whole looked better. Guendouzi looks fearless and despite the mistakes, was the best of the midfielders. Lacazette made an impact and the partnership with Aubameyang is something I look forwards to seeing. Torreira looks like he’ll press and get back. Looks like he may have a pass in him as well. A good ball over the top to Auba but unfortunately waved offside. There were positives from the game. Emery hooking Ramsey and Xhaka was a positive sign because he could at least see that these guys weren’t playing well.

The manager needs time and it’s gonna be tough for the fans, manager and players.

[Globalgunner]

If Emery has not realised the depth of the problem he has inherited, it will likely be dawning on him now. We are so predictable and easy to beat. Sterling was gash at the WC. All the teams England faced know that you have to dispossess him outside the box. He gets in the box and all our numpties just freeze afraid to act. Its Wenger all over again. The only coach in world football who cannot instruct how to mark Robben. a 60 yr old Robben will still be able to score goals against a Wenger coached team, as they will not learn from a thousand repeated mistakes.

Anyway back to yesterday. i was hoping Sokratis would help us break the mould, shout at some of the Wenger dotards like Mustafi, who just watch whats unfolding before them.

Ramsey is not a 10, get rid. He cant be on the pitch at the same time as Ozil...you are then 2 men down
Ozil has no heart. I watched him closely yesterday, hoping for a new spark....Nothing. when he gets the ball in an attacking position, he always does this stupid pirouette, that takes 2 seconds to complete and only leaves him in the same position before he started. In the meantime the opposition players have had 2 secs to reposition themselves better. Invariably Ozil will just pass it square. He never moves the ball instinctively. Its as if the players do not learn anything in training that rubs of during game time. If he cant be coached, he needs to be let go....plenty teams in Turkey who will take him off our hands at subsidised wages

Mikhi, the same. too inoffensive

Why are we all so easy to dispossess of the ball, even at home?. City were much more aggressive, confident.

Cech....sorry. He needs to be dropped. Leno for the league and Cech for Europa, Martinez for CC.

The team that ended the game yesterday needs to be our starting 11 save for Cech.
We are in dire straits if Unai thinks yesterday, it was just a bad case of playing the champions. Major work needed.

[Özim]

Emery will have to be ruthless with his decisions over the coming months because I don’t think he’s going to get the time of day. I don’t like what I’ve just seen on AFTV from Lee and I was just listening to Arsecast and the report of how the fans reacted to the game also has me concerned. We have to try and shake off the negativity from what Wenger left behind. The only way to do that is for Emery to be ruthless and start the cull.

The performances from Xhaka, Ozil, Mkhitaryan and Ramsey were too reminiscent of what we saw under Wenger. He can’t persist with them. On the one hand we need to give the new coach time to get his ideas across but on the other hand, if he sticks it out with certain players for too long, he’ll never get the fans on board.

There were positives from the game. Bellerin looked better. The defensive line as whole looked better. Guendouzi looks fearless and despite the mistakes, was the best of the midfielders. Lacazette made an impact and the partnership with Aubameyang is something I look forwards to seeing. Torreira looks like he’ll press and get back. Looks like he may have a pass in him as well. A good ball over the top to Auba but unfortunately waved offside. There were positives from the game. Emery hooking Ramsey and Xhaka was a positive sign because he could at least see that these guys weren’t playing well.

The manager needs time and it’s gonna be tough for the fans, manager and players.

To be fair to Lee he's right, we didn't back the manager in the summer, what we did is give him a bit and not really allow him to sign players who could help us compete.

He's right about needing a winger as well.

He's also correct about us being Arsenal and the fact we should be competing, I agree it will take time but his point was more about how much we spent in the summer and the players we brought in, I understand you disagree but for me you have to give a new manager full backing, you can't hedge your bets because the guy before was useless and wasted money left, right and centre, either you bring in a manager because you think he's the right man, or you bring him in because he's not going to question your decisions and will toe the link.

Also he says this wasn't their strongest side and this was a good time to play them, no De Bruyne, Kompany amongst others, we also played at home, barely any of our players played in the World Cup, many of their players came back last week whereas most of ours came back quite a while ago and should be prepared. Man City are far superior, but to be honest IMO I just don't think there was enough urgency or that players showed that they were keen to impress the manager.

He also compares us to Liverpool and he's right, they are no different to us, in fact we've had a stadium for years, they have ambition and back their manager (and did from the start), 150 million net this summer.

For me Emery has time but he has to do 2 things, 1 change things and 2 not blindly support players who aren't good enough, players like Xhaka shouldn't get countless games, if they don't cut it, you don't play them until they prove (if they can) they're hungry and can perform.

I was disappointed with the starting lineup yesterday, just felt it was too similar to Wengers, we need a complete change, Lacazette and Aubameyang worked in pre-season, Ok it's only friendlies but for me they can both score goals and it makes sense to play them both. Mistakes will happen, lets see if he learns from them.

[Power n Glory]

To be fair to Lee he's right, we didn't back the manager in the summer, what we did is give him a bit and not really allow him to sign players who could help us compete.

He's right about needing a winger as well.

He's also correct about us being Arsenal and the fact we should be competing, I agree it will take time but his point was more about how much we spent in the summer and the players we brought in, I understand you disagree but for me you have to give a new manager full backing, you can't hedge your bets because the guy before was useless and wasted money left, right and centre, either you bring in a manager because you think he's the right man, or you bring him in because he's not going to question your decisions and will toe the link.

Also he says this wasn't their strongest side and this was a good time to play them, no De Bruyne, Kompany amongst others, we also played at home, barely any of our players played in the World Cup, many of their players came back last week whereas most of ours came back quite a while ago and should be prepared. Man City are far superior, but to be honest IMO I just don't think there was enough urgency or that players showed that they were keen to impress the manager.

He also compares us to Liverpool and he's right, they are no different to us, in fact we've had a stadium for years, they have ambition and back their manager (and did from the start), 150 million net this summer.

For me Emery has time but he has to do 2 things, 1 change things and 2 not blindly support players who aren't good enough, players like Xhaka shouldn't get countless games, if they don't cut it, you don't play them until they prove (if they can) they're hungry and can perform.

I was disappointed with the starting lineup yesterday, just felt it was too similar to Wengers, we need a complete change, Lacazette and Aubameyang worked in pre-season, Ok it's only friendlies but for me they can both score goals and it makes sense to play them both. Mistakes will happen, lets see if he learns from them.

Right or wrong, a lot has to change at Arsenal and that includes the mentality and attitude of the fans. We can’t be walking out on the first game of the season before the final whistle. It looks bad. Groaning and sarcastic applauds/chants for when Cech kicks it long isn’t of playing it short isn’t helpful at all. It’s the first day of the season where we are trying to set a foundation and get these players playing a certain way. We can’t abandon that idea at the first hurdle of trouble.

As said, it’s gonna be tough. Critical thought online and on the forums is fine, but at the stadium, I’d expect a lot better from the fans.

[Goonermerree]

I don't get leaving early if you've made the effort and paid a fortune. Whenever I go to a match I stay slightly later than the final whistle to get my moneys worth if nothing else. It's not exactly cheap is it? The only time I can understand it is if it's an evening match and you might miss the last bus or something. I have a mate who is a season ticket holder and he doesn't get home until beyond 12 after an evening KO. He stays until the end though.

[SMatthews]

I don't get leaving early if you've made the effort and paid a fortune. Whenever I go to a match I stay slightly later than the final whistle to get my moneys worth if nothing else. It's not exactly cheap is it? The only time I can understand it is if it's an evening match and you might miss the last bus or something. I have a mate who is a season ticket holder and he doesn't get home until beyond 12 after an evening KO. He stays until the end though.

First day of a new era after an age of complaining about the last manager doing the same things again and again and half the stadium empties before the final whistle. Losing or not, show some solidarity and back the new manager and stay to the end, even if it’s just for one game. Most of the fans can’t even do that which is pretty sad.

[Özim]

Right or wrong, a lot has to change at Arsenal and that includes the mentality and attitude of the fans. We can’t be walking out on the first game of the season before the final whistle. It looks bad. Groaning and sarcastic applauds/chants for when Cech kicks it long isn’t of playing it short isn’t helpful at all. It’s the first day of the season where we are trying to set a foundation and get these players playing a certain way. We can’t abandon that idea at the first hurdle of trouble.

As said, it’s gonna be tough. Critical thought online and on the forums is fine, but at the stadium, I’d expect a lot better from the fans.

I don't see anything wrong with making observations though, Cech clearly can't pass so why play him if you've just bought a keeper for 20 million that can, as I said I thought it was odd Cech should play, he's 36, past his best and isn't the future of the club, with a new start playing a new keeper makes sense.

Emery will get a chance no doubt about it, but he also has to show that he's adaptable and proactive, as long as he does that he'll be fine.

I do think the fans are frustrated by the club, as Lee said the lack of investment shows where our priorities lie, we were miles behind last season and haven't really tried to bridge the gap or backed the manager which is why Man City outclassed us.

[Goonermerree]

It makes total sense that he's given a chance. I still think yesterday was a lackluster performance. I know it was City but Huddersfield and Palace gave it a right go last season, Palace should have been the first to beat City

[Power n Glory]

I don't see anything wrong with making observations though, Cech clearly can't pass so why play him if you've just bought a keeper for 20 million that can, as I said I thought it was odd Cech should play, he's 36, past his best and isn't the future of the club, with a new start playing a new keeper makes sense.

Emery will get a chance no doubt about it, but he also has to show that he's adaptable and proactive, as long as he does that he'll be fine.

I do think the fans are frustrated by the club, as Lee said the lack of investment shows where our priorities lie, we were miles behind last season and haven't really tried to bridge the gap or backed the manager which is why Man City outclassed us.

Every observation is negative. That’s the problem. When that attitude transfers to the stadium and we’ve already got this attitude of ‘no hope’, something we spoke about before…it might be time to switch off. It’s going to hurt us in the long run.

The players and managers will have to rise above it but first day of the season we shouldn’t be having this discussion.

[Özim]

It makes total sense that he's given a chance. I still think yesterday was a lackluster performance. I know it was City but Huddersfield and Palace gave it a right go last season, Palace should have been the first to beat City

Yeah agreed, just don't think the players played as if they wanted to impress the manager which is the normal thing that happens when someone new comes in, that for me shows a lack of hunger and complacency.

[Özim]

Every observation is negative. That’s the problem. When that attitude transfers to the stadium and we’ve already got this attitude of ‘no hope’, something we spoke about before…it might be time to switch off. It’s going to hurt us in the long run.

The players and managers will have to rise above it but first day of the season we shouldn’t be having this discussion.

Not everything is negative but you have to call it like you see it, Guendouzi was positive and actually showed desire, Lacazette looked sharp when he came on, Torreira looked decent and Lichsteiner was decent defensively (all but one are the new players interstingly). But we were outclassed yesterday and for a club like Arsenal that's hard to take and we certainly could have done things better by showing a bit more energy.

Noone expected us to win, but I think people expected the players to be keen and hungry, I personally think the Wenger lot lacked that by in large.

[Goonermerree]

Yeah agreed, just don't think the players played as if they wanted to impress the manager which is the normal thing that happens when someone new comes in, that for me shows a lack of hunger and complacency.

Emery has had a chance to see them in a competitive match, different to a friendly, and I'm trusting him to be able to sort it out. Some of the player's complacency may be deeply entrenched and they need a roasting, hopefully, he will roast them.

[Power n Glory]

Not everything is negative but you have to call it like you see it, Guendouzi was positive and actually showed desire, Lacazette looked sharp when he came on, Torreira looked decent and Lichsteiner was decent defensively (all but one are the new players interstingly). But we were outclassed yesterday and for a club like Arsenal that's hard to take and we certainly could have done things better by showing a bit more energy.

Noone expected us to win, but I think people expected the players to be keen and hungry, I personally think the Wenger lot lacked that by in large.

I don’t think it was a case of lack of desire. Not all players. City just managed to keep us pinned back in our own half. Not all teams will take that approach and they won’t all be capable of playing that way. Those that try to replicate may find themselves vulnerable and more open at the back. We still have to see how we cope when we have the ball and what we do with it.

Losing is never great but I’ve seen us lose by a wider margin when pinned back like that with way more individual blunders when defending. Under Wenger, I believe that game would have been over in the first half. Well, it was last season.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't get leaving early if you've made the effort and paid a fortune. Whenever I go to a match I stay slightly later than the final whistle to get my moneys worth if nothing else. It's not exactly cheap is it? The only time I can understand it is if it's an evening match and you might miss the last bus or something. I have a mate who is a season ticket holder and he doesn't get home until beyond 12 after an evening KO. He stays until the end though.

I agree. Bit disappointing to see everyone pouring out again, I generally stay to the end just as I did yesterday, as you say it's fucking expensive and I'd rather get the full experience win, lose or draw. I might make a move in stoppage time if we're winning comfortably but I'll never head out with 10 minutes remaining or something like that. A lot can happen in that time and if you're a player trying your hardest to get back into a game, seeing people filter out must be pretty demoralising and subconsciously you wonder if the players just switch off when they see that.

If you're coming from up north or something and simply have no choice but to make your last train then fair enough I guess but I know for a fact these are London based fans too.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah agreed, just don't think the players played as if they wanted to impress the manager which is the normal thing that happens when someone new comes in, that for me shows a lack of hunger and complacency.

I think we were just done over by a far superior team. They have better players in pretty much every position.

It's way too early to be talking about a lack of hunger, desire etc. Let them find their feet first under the new regime.

[Özim]

I don’t think it was a case of lack of desire. Not all players. City just managed to keep us pinned back in our own half. Not all teams will take that approach and they won’t all be capable of playing that way. Those that try to replicate may find themselves vulnerable and more open at the back. We still have to see how we cope when we have the ball and what we do with it.

Losing is never great but I’ve seen us lose by a wider margin when pinned back like that with way more individual blunders when defending. Under Wenger, I believe that game would have been over in the first half. Well, it was last season.

I didn't think the team played like a team who were keen to impress personally, not enough energy, that wasn't everyone of course, but quite a number of them.

To be honest City should have beaten us by a cricket score, they played us off the park and missed a host of chances and then took their foot off the gas in the 2nd half somewhat, so the scoreline doesn't really reflect their dominance, we were lucky we didn't concede a lot more. There were some bad errors, Guendouzi and that Cech error - which he got really lucky with, could easily have been much worse, the fact it wasn't was due to luck rather than judgment.

It was the 1st game and we expected to lose but personally I wanted to see a bit more urgency and hunger, like Guendouzi showed basically.

[Unai Tea]

I'm not sure there's a direct correlation with having hunger and desire but we apparently ran more as a team than any other team in week 1.

They are better than us. They should have beaten us. And in the end, the result was as expected. The early gloom and doom is a bit boring to be honest. For me it's a painful and not unexpected first step to hopefully better things. Time will tell on that. But for the next 3-4 months I'm hoping to see improvement, with a few additions/subtractions in the January window to fix areas where we have seen little or no progress.

[Goonermerree]

I'm not sure there's a direct correlation with having hunger and desire but we apparently ran more as a team than any other team in week 1.

They are better than us. They should have beaten us. And in the end, the result was as expected. The early gloom and doom is a bit boring to be honest. For me it's a painful and not unexpected first step to hopefully better things. Time will tell on that. But for the next 3-4 months I'm hoping to see improvement, with a few additions/subtractions in the January window to fix areas where we have seen little or no progress.

Yes, like headless chucks. (By the way, that was a joke.)

[Mac76]

Lacazette and Aubameyang worked in pre-season, Ok it's only friendlies but for me they can both score goals and it makes sense to play them both. Mistakes will happen, lets see if he learns from them.

We have to play them both, not least as we're not going to keep that many clean sheets IMO, so we need to score more than the opposition - get these two on from the start and we can give other teams more to worry about

[Marc Overmars]

Laca and Auba definitely need to play together.

It's not like they're similar strikers either, both have different strengths and give the opposition far more to worry about than any from our collection of passive and ineffective midfielders.

[IBK]

I'm not sure there's a direct correlation with having hunger and desire but we apparently ran more as a team than any other team in week 1.

They are better than us. They should have beaten us. And in the end, the result was as expected. The early gloom and doom is a bit boring to be honest. For me it's a painful and not unexpected first step to hopefully better things. Time will tell on that. But for the next 3-4 months I'm hoping to see improvement, with a few additions/subtractions in the January window to fix areas where we have seen little or no progress.

This. It's disappointing that the negativity seems to be so near the surface rather than us starting with a clean sheet. We need to remember that this is a team having to adapt to a new manager and a new system. A lack of patience amongst fans is not going to do the team any good as we try to rebuild.

[Mac76]

This. It's disappointing that the negativity seems to be so near the surface rather than us starting with a clean sheet. We need to remember that this is a team having to adapt to a new manager and a new system. A lack of patience amongst fans is not going to do the team any good as we try to rebuild.

Yes, sure, but my crushing disappointment at seeing yesterday's teamsheet was at so many duff players being given a start at the expense of better ones - and the performance showed how misguided it was - just so gutting after all the expectation - losing to City is no disgrace but to start with such a poor selection meant it was inevitable, Emery needs to put it right against Chelsea, i don't care if we lose l just want to see the right 11 on the pitch at the start and a lot more effort from some of them

[Letters]

Seen the highlights but didn't really get a feel for how we played. Seemed like we were well beaten though which is disappointing.
No disgrace in losing to that lot but to go down without a fight isn't really good enough.
Emery gets a free pass for a while, maybe even the whole season unless it's a complete car crash.
Not much sign of a change in mentality just yet though.

[Power n Glory]

Yes, sure, but my crushing disappointment at seeing yesterday's teamsheet was at so many duff players being given a start at the expense of better ones - and the performance showed how misguided it was - just so gutting after all the expectation - losing to City is no disgrace but to start with such a poor selection meant it was inevitable, Emery needs to put it right against Chelsea, i don't care if we lose l just want to see the right 11 on the pitch at the start and a lot more effort from some of them

I think he's still tinkering with the team selection and trying to find his starting 11. Took a conservative approach with the first game and it looked more like a Wenger team but I doubt we'll see the same team against Chelsea bar Bellerin, Mustafi and Sokratis. Through the pre season games he tried a number of different combinations and the same goes for the front trio. Testing stage at the moment and trying to see what players a capable of what. I think he'll be justified in dropping many of Wenger's old players for the next match.

[SMatthews]

This. It's disappointing that the negativity seems to be so near the surface rather than us starting with a clean sheet. We need to remember that this is a team having to adapt to a new manager and a new system. A lack of patience amongst fans is not going to do the team any good as we try to rebuild.

It’s fair to say he won’t be given time by the fans and the media. Change on the pitch or not, if he doesn’t get top four this season he’ll be under huge pressure from all sides.

[Bumble]

If Emery wants to press high up the field then I think he will need to select Welbeck instead of Mikhi as at least that is something he can do. Unfortunately the controlling, passing, scoring is more of an issue but I like his attitude!!

[Bumble]

It’s fair to say he won’t be given time by the fans and the media. Change on the pitch or not, if he doesn’t get top four this season he’ll be under huge pressure from all sides.

I think he does need to get top 4. It is there for the taking. Spurs have stadium and money issues so I cant see them performing as well as last season. Chelsea new manager, players in control so if they don't like the manager then they don't play. So next weekend is so very important as we don't want to lose and already be 6 points behind even after two games.

[SMatthews]

I think he does need to get top 4. It is there for the taking. Spurs have stadium and money issues so I cant see them performing as well as last season. Chelsea new manager, players in control so if they don't like the manager then they don't play. So next weekend is so very important as we don't want to lose and already be 6 points behind even after two games.

Chelsea are the only vulnerable ones, only if Maureen sends Pogba and a few others close to the brink of suicide with his depressive moaning. Pochecheato still has that team under his full control and unless they are savaged by injuries he’ll still drag the performances needed out of that squad. Klopp’s first season started in October 15 and they finished 8th that year. We saw the car crash that happened once Fergie left. We might have an outside chance of top four but I don’t see it happening this season.

I think we’re going to see that the frustration about Wenger wasn’t really about Wenger at all. Becuase so much of the media views the world through a digital lense rather than reality, the impatience of online reactions are used to build pressure that leads to sackings - regardless of whether it’s football or any other industry. When you watched the games last year the reaction in the stadium - the real world - was nowhere near as vociferous in comparison to the online complaints. There was a big difference between the two. The same could be said about any number of other topics.

If we finish 5/6th the same divide we saw last year will be present once again. When something is overanalysed to death - as football is - then all sanity goes out the door. Oddly enough, Kroenke taking over could be Emery’s only saving grace as he won’t give a shit about fan pressure.

[Power n Glory]

It’s going to take at least a season to get into shape. Worth remembering Man City's first season under Pep. They didn’t have a fantastic record against the big sides. Besides a positive start with a win against Utd at Old Trafford, they lost away to Spurs, lost home and away to Chelsea, lost away to Liverpool and were battered 4-0 to Everton and 4-2 to Leicester City. Besides beating us and Utd in the league, they didn’t win any other games against a big side.

[Power n Glory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQwvUR261Ns

Arsenal Vision Podcast. Always enjoy listening to these guys for post game analysis.

[selassie]

I think he does need to get top 4. It is there for the taking. Spurs have stadium and money issues so I cant see them performing as well as last season. Chelsea new manager, players in control so if they don't like the manager then they don't play. So next weekend is so very important as we don't want to lose and already be 6 points behind even after two games.

Emery cant make wine out of water. We started the season as the 6th best team in the division, I don’t think the combination of new signings and new manager / playing style will bridge the gap between our current level and the current top 4. We didn’t make any investment significant enough for me to believe we are now part of that top 4 group.

Emery needs time, he also needs proper investment otherwise I really don’t see how we are going to improve enough to the extent of being a top 4 regular. The teams above us are not marginally better than us, there is a clear gap now and we are going to need to be extremely proactive in order to bridge that gap.

The aim for this season should be winning Europa and then investing properly in the summer to shape our team / squad accordingly, forget about PL, this team isn’t capable of finishing top 4 in its current state, it’s a mismatched team of Wengers’s Duds and Emery’s new boys, it’s too disjointed right now.

[IBK]

It’s going to take at least a season to get into shape. Worth remembering Man City's first season under Pep. They didn’t have a fantastic record against the big sides. Besides a positive start with a win against Utd at Old Trafford, they lost away to Spurs, lost home and away to Chelsea, lost away to Liverpool and were battered 4-0 to Everton and 4-2 to Leicester City. Besides beating us and Utd in the league, they didn’t win any other games against a big side.

:gp: Also, as SMatthews says there may well be a dawning reality check that AW was the lightning rod for frustration that was as much to do with impatience for success as the decisions that he made. It's all about short-termism these days. The Chavs and Citeh have thrown money at their teams to achieve success over the past decade, while Manure benefitted from the best manager ever to grace the Premiership. Below them, a CL title aside Liverpool have gone decades without winning anything significant, as have Spurs. Yet all that is forgotten - maybe especially by Arsenal fans. IMHO there is no good reason in a massively competitive environment - why our team should be nailed on for a top 4 place this season - and in the circumstances top four would be an excellent achievement. Seen in this context Emery deserves patience all round. Whether he will get it is another matter.

[SMatthews]

I think the very fact that people are stressing the obvious that Emery needs time (not just on GW) shows the real concern that he won’t be given it. If everyone was on the same page, the idea of giving a new manager some time to remove a 22 year old culture wouldn’t need to be stressed.

[GP]

As long as there are signs of improvement, I think he'll get the time.

Next season really needs to be a successful one.

[Power n Glory]

He’ll get time from the Board but I highly doubt he’ll get that much time from the fans. That’s where we shoot ourselves in the foot. If the environment becomes toxic so early on, it won’t help the team and we’d be doing a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Power n Glory]

Emery cant make wine out of water. We started the season as the 6th best team in the division, I don’t think the combination of new signings and new manager / playing style will bridge the gap between our current level and the current top 4. We didn’t make any investment significant enough for me to believe we are now part of that top 4 group.

Emery needs time, he also needs proper investment otherwise I really don’t see how we are going to improve enough to the extent of being a top 4 regular. The teams above us are not marginally better than us, there is a clear gap now and we are going to need to be extremely proactive in order to bridge that gap.

The aim for this season should be winning Europa and then investing properly in the summer to shape our team / squad accordingly, forget about PL, this team isn’t capable of finishing top 4 in its current state, it’s a mismatched team of Wengers’s Duds and Emery’s new boys, it’s too disjointed right now.

This is where I disagree to an extent. Seeing how we struggled to just get the basics right with us struggling just to get out of our own half and not pressing City enough, I don’t think we’re at a stage where we can introduce that many new signings into this team. We definitely need more quality in the wide areas but as seen from the City game, we need to get the foundations right and build on that. See what the current players are able to do and if we can build a structure around that.

In DIY terms, it’s like buying all the supplies before actually doing a proper inspection on the project you’re working on and not taken down the measurements. We’d end up overspending. We need to establish what works and what’s junk.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQwvUR261Ns

Arsenal Vision Podcast. Always enjoy listening to these guys for post game analysis.

Was going to say...they pretty much said what I said about Ozil. I see Clive has changed his tune on Xhaka....but he tends to go back and forth with him.

[selassie]

This is where I disagree to an extent. Seeing how we struggled to just get the basics right with us struggling just to get out of our own half and not pressing City enough, I don’t think we’re at a stage where we can introduce that many new signings into this team. We definitely need more quality in the wide areas but as seen from the City game, we need to get the foundations right and build on that. See what the current players are able to do and if we can build a structure around that.

In DIY terms, it’s like buying all the supplies before actually doing a proper inspection on the project you’re working on and not taken down the measurements. We’d end up overspending. We need to establish what works and what’s junk.

I actually think we’re more or less on the same page here P’n’G, I just think we are articulating it slightly differently. I totally get where you are coming from and totally understand that we can’t just buy our way into top 4 with a brand new team. However I would have hoped for us to make a few signings of real quality instead of this mishmashed window of what I would term slight hit and hope.

I am happy to be proven wrong and laughed at come the end of the season, I want we all want on here, for Arsenal to do well.

I am fully behind the new regime and am desperate for us to do well but I do have major concerns about our strategy, it doesn’t fully make sense to me.

Emery has a huge job on his hands, he has to repair a damaged ship as well as integrate new parts to it. I’m not convinced some of the damaged parts can be repaired, we all know who these players are. How much time do they really need to be given? Some of them are in third season in PL and quite frankly have gotten worse. They aren’t kids either.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The actions of our recruitment this summer screams 'try and sneak into the top 4'. I will be delighted if Emery does it but fully expect us to finish 4th or 5th. If he achieves any higher I think he deserves a hell of a lot of praise.

If your ambitions are significantly higher than the above then you buy a top quality centre half, a goal keeper you really have faith and conviction in bringing in and buy a wide player for balance even if he isn't world class.

Like Bumble and a few others my eye is really on getting this club back into the top 4 via getting this club some more European silverware.....and that means the Europa league which we should have won last season if we weren't so fundamentally basic in terms of how we defend.

Finishing 4th is only significant because it gets you into the CL....so I'd rather do it via winning something but obviously you want to finish as high as possible.

[Power n Glory]

Was going to say...they pretty much said what I said about Ozil. I see Clive has changed his tune on Xhaka....but he tends to go back and forth with him.

Saying he was on a different wavelength isn't quite the same as saying he had a poor performance with poor touches and decisions. He put in a shift on defence but once again, he didn't make an impact in this sort of game. Maybe the game came too early for him but he has to sharpen up quickly because he hardly ever makes an impact in these sort of games.

I liked Clive's summary of it. A lot of players went into hiding and weren't showing for the ball in the second phase. Ozil included. That's always been my problem with Ozil. He doesn't impose himself on the game. We'll see how the season develops but he's included in the bracket of players that we're not sure where he fits into an Emery team. Out wide or central. We'll soon see.

I think they have all gone back on forth on their opinion with Xhaka. Tim still thinks Xhaka has a place in the squad but I disagree. Besides being to slow receive the ball from the defence, he's a liability on defence. They didn't mention how poor he was positionally for both goals. He can't spot the danger. We'll see if Emery can change that but I doubt it.

[Özim]

This is where I disagree to an extent. Seeing how we struggled to just get the basics right with us struggling just to get out of our own half and not pressing City enough, I don’t think we’re at a stage where we can introduce that many new signings into this team. We definitely need more quality in the wide areas but as seen from the City game, we need to get the foundations right and build on that. See what the current players are able to do and if we can build a structure around that.

In DIY terms, it’s like buying all the supplies before actually doing a proper inspection on the project you’re working on and not taken down the measurements. We’d end up overspending. We need to establish what works and what’s junk.

IMO we needed some top quality signings we could rely on in the summer, seems to me that our transfer window was just bringing in a few to scrape into the top 4 if possible as someone else said, all cheapish and none at the top of their game, Guendouzi a kid with potential who looks decent but realistically can't be relied upon to play every game at his age, Torreira who looks very good but was available relatively cheap due to the clause in his contract, Sokratis a decent defender available fairly cheaply due to his age, Lichsteiner a free signing and Leno a goalkeeper who has been a bit suspect recently which is again reflected in the price we paid, also a keeper we don't seem to have 100% trust in to replace a 36 year old keeper who is well past his best.

All decent signings, but the reality is these are the kind of signings a team like West Ham or C Palace would make, smaller clubs basically, so I get the comments about lack of investment, usually what would happen is a new manager would come in and sign one or two worldie's and some lesser players to work with, players he wants.

To be honest I have no faith in these Wengers duds, average footballers who have made a living on the fact noone at this club will ever challenge them to step up, Xhaka, Chambers, Mustafi, Ramsey, Iwobi, Holding, Welbeck, Elneny (the list goes on), players who lack hunger and even in the first match showed they aren't even that bothered about impressing the new manager. IMO we need to get rid of the old and bring in the new, this is what disappointed me about the lineup the other day, it was almost exactly like the Wenger team that came before, I would have expected Emery to try and put his stamp by picking the likes of Leno, Torreira and also Lacazette.

The new contracts for Chambers, Iwobi and Xhaka were a shocker too, none of those players have done anything to earn a new contract and yes I understand they could run them done like we've seen, but in this scenario who cares, they're average and barely have any market value anyway, we'd struggle to give them away.

[IBK]

I actually think we’re more or less on the same page here P’n’G, I just think we are articulating it slightly differently. I totally get where you are coming from and totally understand that we can’t just buy our way into top 4 with a brand new team. However I would have hoped for us to make a few signings of real quality instead of this mishmashed window of what I would term slight hit and hope.

I am happy to be proven wrong and laughed at come the end of the season, I want we all want on here, for Arsenal to do well.

I am fully behind the new regime and am desperate for us to do well but I do have major concerns about our strategy, it doesn’t fully make sense to me.

Emery has a huge job on his hands, he has to repair a damaged ship as well as integrate new parts to it. I’m not convinced some of the damaged parts can be repaired, we all know who these players are. How much time do they really need to be given? Some of them are in third season in PL and quite frankly have gotten worse. They aren’t kids either.

Hmmm I can see where you are coming from, but my view is that first and foremost this bunch of players needs a new shape; a new system of playing and in particular to learn to defend as a team. There were some signs of the latter in Sunday's game despite the errors that led to the goals and as I've seen somewhere else, in the latter stages Citeh themselves were almost caught out by the pressing game that Emery is also trying to introduce. I'd agree that our signings seem somewhat underwhelming, but I can see the sense in not breaking the bank until Emery has had the opportunity to properly introduce his system, and seeing how our existing players respond to this.

I'm not sure that I agree with those advocating giving up on our most expensive player (Ozil) just yet. There is some sense in persevering with our investment for another season. Similarly, Ramsey IMO is quality, and I'm not sure who else is available who would be an improvement on him if the manager can get the MF pairings right - I can see sense in trying to get him to sign a new contract rather than paying what it would take to replace him.

It might be a cautious approach not to break the bank bringing in the fabled 'world class' players in this period of relative turmoil, but I have no massive qualms with this. Let's wait and see whether things can settle down and move forwards under Emery before looking to purchase further.

[Unai Tea]

The new contracts for Chambers, Iwobi and Xhaka were a shocker too, none of those players have done anything to earn a new contract and yes I understand they could run them done like we've seen, but in this scenario who cares, they're average and barely have any market value anyway, we'd struggle to give them away.

I would be surprised if those three players aren't worth at least £30-40m if sold. So better to keep hold of them until a decision is made and they are replaced.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Saying he was on a different wavelength isn't quite the same as saying he had a poor performance with poor touches and decisions. He put in a shift on defence but once again, he didn't make an impact in this sort of game. Maybe the game came too early for him but he has to sharpen up quickly because he hardly ever makes an impact in these sort of games.

I liked Clive's summary of it. A lot of players went into hiding and weren't showing for the ball in the second phase. Ozil included. That's always been my problem with Ozil. He doesn't impose himself on the game. We'll see how the season develops but he's included in the bracket of players that we're not sure where he fits into an Emery team. Out wide or central. We'll soon see.

I think they have all gone back on forth on their opinion with Xhaka. Tim still thinks Xhaka has a place in the squad but I disagree. Besides being to slow receive the ball from the defence, he's a liability on defence. They didn't mention how poor he was positionally for both goals. He can't spot the danger. We'll see if Emery can change that but I doubt it.

They said he tried, the effort was there and it wasn't a case of him not showing up it was more that nothing came off which was basically what I was saying. Particularly in the face of the regular 'he didn't show up/turn up' narrative on here. Not trying to be NQ, it's just how I Maybe that isn't to be taken too literally, but this was not an Ozil hiding in plain sight kind of performance. Not trying to be NQ, it's just how I saw it.

They also called out Lacazette on his faults, which I thought was slightly glossed over on here, even if I enjoyed him throwing his weight around and getting well involved in the game.

I think Emery was wrong to deploy him right, but that was simply a detail. On the day, Ozil's touch was off in general.

Tim said that given Xhaka is unsuited to receiving the ball in midfield facing his goalkeeper he doesn't know where that leaves Xhaka in this Emery era. He didn't expand and as usual on the podcast, if you pause for breath somebody else will take over, but to me that was Tim's way of saying.....'I don't think he really has a place in this team'.

It is telling though that so many had higher hopes for Xhaka under this regime and after a single game, so many are rethinking that.......

[Özim]

I would be surprised if those three players aren't worth at least £30-40m if sold. So better to keep hold of them until a decision is made and they are replaced.

You only need to look at our squad right now and look at who we actually managed to sell (Perez I think) to realise selling these guys is hard, noone wants them or two play their overinflated wages, for years we've struggled to get rid of players, that's why the likes of Jenkinson, Perez, Campbell keep being sent on loan. Clubs have wised up and realise players from Arsenal aren't worth paying decent money for.

[Marc Overmars]

Jenkinson. :lol:

How bloody long is the contract we gave him? Can't believe it just hasn't be terminated. Even he must feel slightly embarrassed to call himself an Arsenal player.

[Özim]

Seems to me we're going to let Welbeck and Ramsey walk away for free next summer, should have sold both of them for whatever we could get, just don't get why we held onto them, we've barely had anything to spend this summer and yet rather than sell two players who have a year left we keep hold of them, where is the logic in that?

Welbeck has no future here anyway, but we should have at least tried to get something for him, more money down the pan and with an owner not interested in investing any money it's mad doubley worse.

[Goonermerree]

Chambers, Iwobi and Xhaka , didn't we just give all three new contracts recently? Just let their contacts run down and get rid of them. I hadn't realised Jenkinson was still an Arsenal player. He was rubbish when we bought him a 100 years ago, why is he still on our books?

[Özim]

Jenkinson. :lol:

How bloody long is the contract we gave him? Can't believe it just hasn't be terminated. Even he must feel slightly embarrassed to call himself an Arsenal player.

Ramsey, Wilshere, Jenkinson, Ox, Gibbs all signed up on long contracts in 2012, now all gone except for one guy who will leave on a free next summer and another who we can't get rid of for love no money. Arsenals British revolution worked out well :lol:

[Özim]

Chambers, Iwobi and Xhaka , didn't we just give all three new contracts recently? Just let their contacts run down and get rid of them. I hadn't realised Jenkinson was still an Arsenal player. He was rubbish when we bought him a 100 years ago, why is he still on our books?

Yeah we gave them new long term contracts, we'll never get rid now, I'd have sold them for whatever we could have got in the summer. Yeah Jenkinson was plucked out of obscurity at Charlton and now noone wants him because he was never any good in the 1st place.

[Goonermerree]

Ramsey, Wilshere, Jenkinson, Ox, Gibbs all signed up on long contracts in 2012, now all gone except for one guy who will leave on a free next summer and another who we can't get rid of for love no money. Arsenals British revolution worked out well :lol:

Wilshere and Ox still had potential then, the others should have been sold.

[Özim]

Wilshere and Ox still had potential then, the others should have been sold.

The only one of those I would have kept is Ox to be honest, very talented and had something about him, shame for him about his injury. You could make an argument for Wilshere, but since then he's not improved at all, has sown poor discipline off the pitch and is always injured, what a bunch! :lol:

We also had Walnut of course, signed him up not long after that.

[Goonermerree]

The only one of those I would have kept is Ox to be honest, very talented and had something about him, shame for him about his injury. You could make an argument for Wilshere, but since then he's not improved at all, has sown poor discipline off the pitch and is always injured, what a bunch! :lol:

We also had Walnut of course, signed him up not long after that.

Six years ago Wilshere was only a baby, so we hoped he would come good.

[Power n Glory]

They said he tried, the effort was there and it wasn't a case of him not showing up it was more that nothing came off which was basically what I was saying. Particularly in the face of the regular 'he didn't show up/turn up' narrative on here. Not trying to be NQ, it's just how I Maybe that isn't to be taken too literally, but this was not an Ozil hiding in plain sight kind of performance. Not trying to be NQ, it's just how I saw it.

They also called out Lacazette on his faults, which I thought was slightly glossed over on here, even if I enjoyed him throwing his weight around and getting well involved in the game.

I think Emery was wrong to deploy him right, but that was simply a detail. On the day, Ozil's touch was off in general.

Tim said that given Xhaka is unsuited to receiving the ball in midfield facing his goalkeeper he doesn't know where that leaves Xhaka in this Emery era. He didn't expand and as usual on the podcast, if you pause for breath somebody else will take over, but to me that was Tim's way of saying.....'I don't think he really has a place in this team'.

It is telling though that so many had higher hopes for Xhaka under this regime and after a single game, so many are rethinking that.......

I agree with you on effort. It wasn't a case of a Ozil not trying. On defence, I saw how he pressed and chased back to defend. Those were the positives. But once again Aubameyang looked starved of service when playing up front on his own. It's a one off game but this is a growing trend with Ozil. They touched on the spark Lacazette adds to Aubameyang's game and I expect that sort of connection with Ozil involved. I just don't know if he will ever get there. With these sort of players on the pitch, his passing should release them to do serious damage. So far, the least likely candidate, Giroud, has been his best partnership.

As for Lacazette, when we have a team performing so poorly, it's pretty harsh to criticise a 6.5 / 7 performance. He has his flaws and so does Aubameyang but their style of play may just compliment each other as stated on the podcast.

I think they are all rethinking Xhaka but have some sort of hope for him as a player and not drawing any quick conclusions. Where ai disagree with their analysis is the part on Xhaka not being the deepest midfielder to collect the ball. He started off playing that way but when pressured off the ball he kinda of stopped showing up for the ball and left it to Guendouzi. That's not a good sign.

[Unai Tea]

You only need to look at our squad right now and look at who we actually managed to sell (Perez I think) to realise selling these guys is hard, noone wants them or two play their overinflated wages, for years we've struggled to get rid of players, that's why the likes of Jenkinson, Perez, Campbell keep being sent on loan. Clubs have wised up and realise players from Arsenal aren't worth paying decent money for.

We sold 7 backups for nearly £100m in 2017.

Chambers and Iwobi are young and have potential, Xhaka is a solid starter for most premier league clubs (excepting the top 6).

Perez is 30 in a few weeks and hasn't done much in the last few years. £4m seems a reasonable price. Moreover, he's more interested in playing than earning which is probably not the same case for Jenkinson and Campbell who are collecting a paycheck and are comfortable. I think Jenkinson was sold at one point with an opportunity to play but he wouldn't accept the wage drop.

[Özim]

We sold 7 backups for nearly £100m in 2017.

Chambers and Iwobi are young and have potential, Xhaka is a solid starter for most premier league clubs (excepting the top 6).

Perez is 30 in a few weeks and hasn't done much in the last few years. £4m seems a reasonable price. Moreover, he's more interested in playing than earning which is probably not the same case for Jenkinson and Campbell who are collecting a paycheck and are comfortable. I think Jenkinson was sold at one point with an opportunity to play but he wouldn't accept the wage drop.

If you're talking about players like Ox Chamberlain, Gabriel etc, they weren't exactly backup they were 1st teamers and 1st team squad players we used a fair amount and hadn't been bad for us (Gabriel wasn't perfect but he was better than Mustafi), I'd have kept Ox and he brought in 40 millon of that.

Chambers came as a kid and hasn't really progressed at all, there will probably be some takes but probably for 8-10 million or thereabuts, Iwobi I don't know maybe a similar amount, Xhaka will be hard to get rid of, he's absolute trash and no premier league team would touch him IMO based on the way he has performed.

This summer we had quite a few players we were trying to get rid of and Perez so far is the only one gone, Perez cost us what 17 million so thats a big loss whichever way you look at it, he's been on loan a while and maybe we could have sold him last summer.

We were planning to sell quite a few players this summer, Jenkinson, Perez, Ospina, Campbell (some talk about Mustafi as well) but didn't manage to shift many to raise money for more signings which shows how difficult they are to shift. Holding doesn't seem to feature which makes me think he's not at the forefront of our plans, especially with Mavropanos in there.

[Unai Tea]

If you're talking about players like Ox Chamberlain, Gabriel etc, they weren't exactly backup they were 1st teamers and 1st team squad players we used a fair amount and hadn't been bad for us (Gabriel wasn't perfect but he was better than Mustafi), I'd have kept Ox and he brought in 40 millon of that.



Yes I am. First teamers getting more or less similar game time as Xhaka, Chambers and Iwobi.

You toss in three red herrings (jenkinson, perez and campbell) to prove your point that we can only sell our players with great difficulty and to suggest that Xhaka, Iwobi and Chambers, therefore, have little to no value and should be allowed to leave for nothing. But the three you highlight (one of whom we've just sold) have played practically no games for us in the last 2 years, compared to the 135 or so premier league appearances for Xhaka, Iwobi and Chambers in the last two years.

I'm not suggesting these three are top quality players who can adorn any top 4 team's starting 11. But they have value, and can be sold and as such are investments/assets. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.

[IBK]

Personally, I think that we are inevitably Arsenal-centric when we consider our so-called dead wood players. I haven't done any forensic research, but I would imagine that most teams in the top half of the table have plenty of players that their fans would consider surplus to requirements. We don't have a squad of world class players, and I think that many of our gripes can be attributed to that simple fact.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I agree with you on effort. It wasn't a case of a Ozil not trying. On defence, I saw how he pressed and chased back to defend. Those were the positives. But once again Aubameyang looked starved of service when playing up front on his own. It's a one off game but this is a growing trend with Ozil. They touched on the spark Lacazette adds to Aubameyang's game and I expect that sort of connection with Ozil involved. I just don't know if he will ever get there. With these sort of players on the pitch, his passing should release them to do serious damage. So far, the least likely candidate, Giroud, has been his best partnership.

As for Lacazette, when we have a team performing so poorly, it's pretty harsh to criticise a 6.5 / 7 performance. He has his flaws and so does Aubameyang but their style of play may just compliment each other as stated on the podcast.

I think they are all rethinking Xhaka but have some sort of hope for him as a player and not drawing any quick conclusions. Where ai disagree with their analysis is the part on Xhaka not being the deepest midfielder to collect the ball. He started off playing that way but when pressured off the ball he kinda of stopped showing up for the ball and left it to Guendouzi. That's not a good sign.

I think as the potential biggest goal scorer we really should be focusing on getting the most out of Auba...which to my mind is the best chance we have of finishing top 4. If Laca is useful and moreover, clinical, I think the argument is strong to accommodate him in the starting lineup too but that's 'if' he is clinical. Nobody was sharp in the first game though so he get's a by, but going for power on his finishes has been a trend since last season, which I initially attributed to the frustration of Wenger's lack of faith in him and taking him off early all the time. I agree, it is useful if they can compliment each other and in the pre match talk I suggested a 3412 with both of them up top so I'm generally for it.

I think a 3412 with Ozil as the 10 and those two ahead and a few games repeating the same set up will soon see him finding them with regularity.

[Power n Glory]

I think as the potential biggest goal scorer we really should be focusing on getting the most out of Auba...which to my mind is the best chance we have of finishing top 4. If Laca is useful and moreover, clinical, I think the argument is strong to accommodate him in the starting lineup too but that's 'if' he is clinical. Nobody was sharp in the first game though so he get's a by, but going for power on his finishes has been a trend since last season, which I initially attributed to the frustration of Wenger's lack of faith in him and taking him off early all the time. I agree, it is useful if they can compliment each other and in the pre match talk I suggested a 3412 with both of them up top so I'm generally for it.

I think a 3412 with Ozil as the 10 and those two ahead and a few games repeating the same set up will soon see him finding them with regularity.

Lacazette scored 17 goals last season. Just last week or so we were talking about how we'll miss the goals and assists from Sanchez and Walcott. Do you think we can honestly leave Lacazette on the bench considering our lack of goal options?

I think you're slightly nitpicking with the power shots. If these were clear cut chances he was fluffing I'd agree with you but he was starved of service last season. We've seen worse from Welbeck, Ramsey and Giroud in terms of missed chances so whatever problem Wenger had with Lacazette, it couldn't have been his finishing. Ridiculous if so. Also, with this recent game, he has shown he can offer more than just goals with his link up play and connection with Aubameyang.

As for Ozil, he only set up 4 goals for Lacazette last season. One against Everton, one against Palace and 2 against CSKA Moscow. Aubameyang scored 10 goals last year but Ozil didn't set up a goal for him either.

Something is amiss. Ozil got 17 assists last year but he's not feeding our main strikers and our strikers are scoring but not getting much service from Ozil. We need all three working together. Seeing how Auba plays, I think Clive is right about him not being at his best when he has his back to goal, he looks like he plays better when the game is in front of him. If we intend on playing a faster style where we counter attack with pace, I don't see a problem with playing Auba out wide and scoring a load of goals. We don't have to switch to a 3412 and I think it's highly unlikely we'll see Unai play that formation anytime soon.

[Marc Overmars]

Auba definitely needs to play facing towards goal. You risk neutering a player like him who relies on his pace if you ask him to hold up and link play too much, which is why Laca should be playing with him because he's deceptively strong at that.

If anything though, they need to play together due to the lack of reliable goal scorers we currently have. Those 2 are the only ones who you can say will at least get into double figures this season.

I think we need 1 or 2 pacey players out wide and we should have signed someone like that in the transfer window. Our attacking midfielders all enjoy playing narrow and I don't think the lack of variation helps, there's practically zero threat from wide areas unless it comes from the fullbacks and that's not a sustainable threat either because they will need to defend first and foremost. It's a bit of an oversight really and I hope the scouts are working to identify a player who could fit the bill.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

He won't dream of playing 3412, Inknow that......it's just what I'd do to accomodate them both without compromising the width in the team or playing them in positions they are unhappy.

I do think we can leave Laca out, but I would prefer him to play. As I've said before I think the lack of a wide player is going to haunt us this season no matter the lineup or formation.

[Power n Glory]

Auba definitely needs to play facing towards goal. You risk neutering a player like him who relies on his pace if you ask him to hold up and link play too much, which is why Laca should be playing with him because he's deceptively strong at that.

If anything though, they need to play together due to the lack of reliable goal scorers we currently have. Those 2 are the only ones who you can say will at least get into double figures this season.

I think we need 1 or 2 pacey players out wide and we should have signed someone like that in the transfer window. Our attacking midfielders all enjoy playing narrow and I don't think the lack of variation helps, there's practically zero threat from wide areas unless it comes from the fullbacks and that's not a sustainable threat either because they will need to defend first and foremost. It's a bit of an oversight really and I hope the scouts are working to identify a player who could fit the bill.

Oh shit, we still have Joel Campbell! I had no idea. :lol:

As said on then podcast, I agree with what was said about havjng too many half and half players who can either play through the middle or out wide. On the one hand, I think we do need a Mane type but I also think we have figure out what we're going to do with certain players. As said, Auba can play wide and if successful, that leaves one slot to the right. Who we should play there is up for debate.

[Power n Glory]

He won't dream of playing 3412, Inknow that......it's just what I'd do to accomodate them both without compromising the width in the team or playing them in positions they are unhappy.

I do think we can leave Laca out, but I would prefer him to play. As I've said before I think the lack of a wide player is going to haunt us this season no matter the lineup or formation.

Because Auba looks so much better when the game is in front of him, I think he's the most suitable wide option we have. At the moment, I don't see Ozil, Mkhitaryan or Iwobi scoring a lot of goals out wide.

You think we can leave Lacazette out? Who can we play instead and what formation?

[Chippy]

Auba definitely needs to play facing towards goal. You risk neutering a player like him who relies on his pace if you ask him to hold up and link play too much, which is why Laca should be playing with him because he's deceptively strong at that.

If anything though, they need to play together due to the lack of reliable goal scorers we currently have. Those 2 are the only ones who you can say will at least get into double figures this season.

I think we need 1 or 2 pacey players out wide and we should have signed someone like that in the transfer window. Our attacking midfielders all enjoy playing narrow and I don't think the lack of variation helps, there's practically zero threat from wide areas unless it comes from the fullbacks and that's not a sustainable threat either because they will need to defend first and foremost. It's a bit of an oversight really and I hope the scouts are working to identify a player who could fit the bill.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6060927/Unai-Emerys-Arsenal-plans-set-hit-need-slash-clubs-wage-bill.html

[Marc Overmars]

Seems like those reports at the start of the summer of us having a limited budget weren’t really far off the mark.

[Power n Glory]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-transfer-news-summer-sell-out-tie-alexis-sanchez-mesut-ozil-new-contract-a7803741.html%3famp

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/premier-league-update-their-ffp-rules

It seems so. Found these. Clubs can't increase their wage bill by more than £7m each year.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Wrote a response then it timed me out and I lost it! jeez!

[Goonermerree]

How is it that other club don't seem to get affected the way Arsenal does? Or is it an indication of how much dross on high wages we have accumulated over the years?

[Özim]

How is it that other club don't seem to get affected the way Arsenal does? Or is it an indication of how much dross on high wages we have accumulated over the years?

There's obviously ways round it, look at Liverpool they spent 150 millon net this summer. We signed 5 players but I can't imagine any of them are on huge wages.

Goes back to my point though, even if this was an issue then we should have got rid of the likes of Xhaka, Mustafi to bring in the quality replacements we needed, there's no excuses. West Ham/Everton and co didn't seem to have an issue.

We've done a poor job of selling players this summer so far IMO and then gone out and handed new contracts to players who don't deserve them.

[Power n Glory]

How is it that other club don't seem to get affected the way Arsenal does? Or is it an indication of how much dross on high wages we have accumulated over the years?

To be fair, it’s been very quiet for most of our rivals. Spurs haven’t spent a penny, Man Utd spent around £60m on two players, some midfielder named Fred and a rightback. But they recouped just under £20m from sales.

Chelsea sold Courtois and went big with signing a new keeper. They also signed Jorginho. I think they spent around £100m when taking into account the sales. But considering the criticism we’ve received about our transfer dealings for our new manager, two new signings and one of which is to replace your first team goalkeeper looks like a poor summer in comparison.

Man City only bought Mahrez….it’s mainly Liverpool that have been the big spenders and then some of the lower league teams. I think the rules are you can’t increase your wage bill more than 7% if you can’t make up the difference through earned sponsorship and stadium revenue. For newly promoted clubs it’s a totally different rule, hence why Fulham are spending like crazy. But in regards to the usual suspects, it’s a quiet summer.

[Goonermerree]

Are they still our rivals? To be fair, they didn't need to strengthen as much as us anyway. I don't know, who knows what goes on behind the scenes?

[Özim]

Are they still our rivals? To be fair, they didn't need to strengthen as much as us anyway. I don't know, who knows what goes on behind the scenes?

We need major surgery on our squad after last seasons disaster, we've made changes but not really enough to be honest.

[Power n Glory]

Are they still our rivals? To be fair, they didn't need to strengthen as much as us anyway. I don't know, who knows what goes on behind the scenes?

They definitely needed to strengthen more than what they currently have. Man City didn't need to go crazy but Man Utd and Spurs are still well off the pace from competing with City. Same goes for Chelsea who finished 5th and outside of the Champs League.

Do you think Spurs can win the league the way they are now?

Chelsea have a new manager and they've only signed one outfield player. Let's call a spade a spade on this one. It's not just us.

[Power n Glory]

Wrote a response then it timed me out and I lost it! jeez!

I hate when that happens. :lol:

[Goonermerree]

They definitely needed to strengthen more than what they currently have. Man City didn't need to go crazy but Man Utd and Spurs are still well off the pace from competing with City. Same goes for Chelsea who finished 5th and outside of the Champs League.

Do you think Spurs can win the league the way they are now?

Chelsea have a new manager and they've only signed one outfield player. Let's call a spade a spade on this one. It's not just us.

I don't think Spurs will be looking to win the league, getting top every season is good for them, for now. Chelsea need to up their game for sure to win the league which they expect to. United and City will beat us without strengthening. Top 4 is going to be difficult to achieve although Spurs might implode, we can but hope.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think Spurs will be looking to win the league, getting top every season is good for them, for now. Chelsea need to up their game for sure to win the league which they expect to. United and City will beat us without strengthening. Top 4 is going to be difficult to achieve although Spurs might implode, we can but hope.

Spurs have played a wild gamble to not spend a penny on their team when the level of competition is so high. They’re banking on us or Chelsea to finish outside of the top 4 again.

Top 4 is going to be tough for us. But the point I’m trying to get across is that it’s not just us that hasn’t spent a lot on new additions this summer. Chelsea have a new manager too and the red carpet hasn’t been rolled out for him despite this being the 2nd time this particular crop of players have finished outside of the Top 4 and ousted a manager.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Man U need a different manager but there squad absolutely should be challenging. Chelsea are a top forward short, but they pretty much have everything else and a well balanced squad on paper.

Spurs are lacking a little something something in attack.... They have a well balanced side but to bridge the gap you need to increase the quality where ever you can.

I think we had more work to do than others, but we didn't do it because we are clearly setting out to sneak top 4 rather than compete for the league.

I don't think we should be reliant on the benevolence of the owner to compete or spending 200 million every single window to infinity and beyond to stay competitive and that shouldn't be necessary anyway with the range of revenue streams.

I do think Oblak, Torreira, Litch, a top CB and a top Wide player may have been enough to see us challenge, but we will never know and that would have cost too much, but I do think we should have not signed Leno unless we were
convinced of his quality and signed a wide player. He wouldn't have had to be world class but if he could have added dynamism to the attack and/or goals & assists from wide like Theo did, that would have been very useful.

[Bumble]

Man U need a different manager but there squad absolutely should be challenging. Chelsea are a top forward short, but they pretty much have everything else and a well balanced squad on paper.

Spurs are lacking a little something something in attack.... They have a well balanced side but to bridge the gap you need to increase the quality where ever you can.

I think we had more work to do than others, but we didn't do it because we are clearly setting out to sneak top 4 rather than compete for the league.

I don't think we should be reliant on the benevolence of the owner to compete or spending 200 million every single window to infinity and beyond to stay competitive and that shouldn't be necessary anyway with the range of revenue streams.

I do think Oblak, Torreira, Litch, a top CB and a top Wide player may have been enough to see us challenge, but we will never know and that would have cost too much, but I do think we should have not signed Leno unless we were
convinced of his quality and signed a wide player. He wouldn't have had to be world class but if he could have added dynamism to the attack and/or goals & assists from wide like Theo did, that would have been very useful.
i liked perisic (sp) at the world cup but reckon he would have been too much, bt I can see where you are coming from with regard a wide player. if we are going to play a high pressing game then it cant be done with ozil and mukhi. a £20m keeper does seem a luxury signing although 2 keepers being signed for £70m... maybe we did get a good deal but he has to play to be seen and perhaps its a case of waiting for the cup games before he can start performing and forcing his way into the league side. Cech is still a decent keeper, so not like its Almunia we are trying to replace.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It's a good deal if he's a top keeper....but at the moment he's not deemed better than Cech despite Cech's dodgy kicking and his very astute kicking.

Also worrying reports on the Arseblog podcast that he hasn't impressed in training and that is why he didn't start.

[Power n Glory]

Man U need a different manager but there squad absolutely should be challenging. Chelsea are a top forward short, but they pretty much have everything else and a well balanced squad on paper.

Spurs are lacking a little something something in attack.... They have a well balanced side but to bridge the gap you need to increase the quality where ever you can.

I think we had more work to do than others, but we didn't do it because we are clearly setting out to sneak top 4 rather than compete for the league.

I don't think we should be reliant on the benevolence of the owner to compete or spending 200 million every single window to infinity and beyond to stay competitive and that shouldn't be necessary anyway with the range of revenue streams.

I do think Oblak, Torreira, Litch, a top CB and a top Wide player may have been enough to see us challenge, but we will never know and that would have cost too much, but I do think we should have not signed Leno unless we were
convinced of his quality and signed a wide player. He wouldn't have had to be world class but if he could have added dynamism to the attack and/or goals & assists from wide like Theo did, that would have been very useful.

They all have balanced squads and should be capable of pushing for the title but considering they all failed to get close to Man City last season, what’s going to be the difference this year? They’ve all done the bare minimum when they all could have done so much more. But it might just be down to the fact that they can’t spend as much because of wage restrictions which brings us back to the point I was making. Yes, they all have good squads on paper but they’ve stood still and not really looked to the transfer window solve any issues.

We have more work to do than others to be title contenders but we should have enough to make top 4. It’s a bit of a stretch to think we’d be aiming for a quick rebuild within one season to be title contenders. Isn’t that tad unrealistic? Especially when we talk about our rivals having more balanced squad and their transfer activity this season. There has been a building process for all of them. Most of the managers arrived at their clubs 3-4 years ago and have only just put together a balanced team. Yet there is an expectation that we’ll do in one transfer window? Come on now.

[I am invisible]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-transfer-news-summer-sell-out-tie-alexis-sanchez-mesut-ozil-new-contract-a7803741.html%3famp

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/premier-league-update-their-ffp-rules

It seems so. Found these. Clubs can't increase their wage bill by more than £7m each year.
They can if it’s funded through increased revenue from commercial income, player trading and Match Day income (second para from that second link) - it looks like £7m is just the maximum you can increase wages by if your income remains the same.

I wonder if this is why we’re seeing teams like Fulham and Wolves splurging hundreds of millions? They’re going from Chamionship revenue to Premier League revenue, so their jump in income (and the margin for wage increases that they’ll be working with) must be huge!

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

They all have balanced squads and should be capable of pushing for the title but considering they all failed to get close to Man City last season, what’s going to be the difference this year? They’ve all done the bare minimum when they all could have done so much more. But it might just be down to the fact that they can’t spend as much because of wage restrictions which brings us back to the point I was making. Yes, they all have good squads on paper but they’ve stood still and not really looked to the transfer window solve any issues.

We have more work to do than others to be title contenders but we should have enough to make top 4. It’s a bit of a stretch to think we’d be aiming for a quick rebuild within one season to be title contenders. Isn’t that tad unrealistic? Especially when we talk about our rivals having more balanced squad and their transfer activity this season. There has been a building process for all of them. Most of the managers arrived at their clubs 3-4 years ago and have only just put together a balanced team. Yet there is an expectation that we’ll do in one transfer window? Come on now.

I am in a minority as I think the squad was good enough to challenge last season let alone this one. The management is the difference and our away record was the hyperbolic opposite to the home one. Had we’d have made the signings and managerial appointment I wanted I’d have expected an immediate title challenge or let’s call it a challenge for second place as City set a new high last season. There are loads that think we will finish 3rd this season and we don’t have a single defender we’re all confident in, the defence is a car crash and Emery has just come in.

[Chippy]

I am in a minority as I think the squad was good enough to challenge last season let alone this one. The management is the difference and our away record was the hyperbolic opposite to the home one. Had we’d have made the signings and managerial appointment I wanted I’d have expected an immediate title challenge or let’s call it a challenge for second place as City set a new high last season. There are loads that think we will finish 3rd this season and we don’t have a single defender we’re all confident in, the defence is a car crash and Emery has just come in.

I guess your not very confident of a top 4 finish then? :)

[Power n Glory]

I am in a minority as I think the squad was good enough to challenge last season let alone this one. The management is the difference and our away record was the hyperbolic opposite to the home one. Had we’d have made the signings and managerial appointment I wanted I’d have expected an immediate title challenge or let’s call it a challenge for second place as City set a new high last season. There are loads that think we will finish 3rd this season and we don’t have a single defender we’re all confident in, the defence is a car crash and Emery has just come in.

I think there were some hopeful of a title challenge last season and thought we may have finally found the final pieces. If not a title challenge, at least a squad capable of getting Top 4 or winning the Europa League

Saying that, I still don't understand why you think we need major signings this season if you say you thought we were capable of challenging last season. On paper, we have a stronger team this year than we did last season.

Our defence has always been in bad shape and last year it was even worse. We didn't have competition for Cech. Kosienly and Mustafi were an aboslute shambles. Merts was semi retired. There was no competition for Bellerin, Monreal was our best defender by a clear distance. This season we've added Sokratis to the line up along with Lichsteiner and Leno as keeper. Emery is cla better coach than Wenger when it comes to organising a defence so we should be in a better position. Sceptics talk of the lack of pace from Lichsteiner and Sokratis on here but Lich definitely showed a few doubters that he's not finished at this level and despite being up against pace, he knew how to deal with it. He wasn't getting skinned or backing off leaving too much space like we saw from AMN.

In midfield we've added Guendouzi and Torreira. You can already see that they add a lot more to this midfield than players like Xhaka and Ramsey. They seem to understand their prime functions as CM players. That has to be a plus on last year.

The one downside is us losing Sanchez, Giroud and Theo. But all three players divided opinion on here and it was debatable whether they are suitable for the squad. On paper, you can't say Aubameyang, Lacazette and Mkhitaryan are downgrades in that department. It's debatable on how they will function as a unit but I think it should be easier getting them to function as unit over Giroud (slow), Theo (inconsistent, can't dribble) Sanchez (selfish). Not saying we won't miss what those players offered but last year, I guarantee people would have taken a swap deal for three we have now over the three we had then. You know I'm fan of Sanchez and Theo as well. But if you were leaning on the optimistic side last season, I'm not quite sure why it's as negative now when we have improved the squad on paper. I guess it boils down to how badly we performed last year under Wenger.

Which manager did you want instead of Emery? I think we've discussed the players you wanted but I didn't know you weren't swayed on Emery.

[Power n Glory]

They can if it’s funded through increased revenue from commercial income, player trading and Match Day income (second para from that second link) - it looks like £7m is just the maximum you can increase wages by if your income remains the same.

I wonder if this is why we’re seeing teams like Fulham and Wolves splurging hundreds of millions? They’re going from Chamionship revenue to Premier League revenue, so their jump in income (and the margin for wage increases that they’ll be working with) must be huge!

Yes that's right. With newly promoted teams like Fulham, I believe they can increase their bill by a much higher threshold than others. It's way more than 7%. I think around 40% to 60%. The exact figure is in that second article somewhere.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I think there were some hopeful of a title challenge last season and thought we may have finally found the final pieces. If not a title challenge, at least a squad capable of getting Top 4 or winning the Europa League

Saying that, I still don't understand why you think we need major signings this season if you say you thought we were capable of challenging last season. On paper, we have a stronger team this year than we did last season.

Our defence has always been in bad shape and last year it was even worse. We didn't have competition for Cech. Kosienly and Mustafi were an aboslute shambles. Merts was semi retired. There was no competition for Bellerin, Monreal was our best defender by a clear distance. This season we've added Sokratis to the line up along with Lichsteiner and Leno as keeper. Emery is cla better coach than Wenger when it comes to organising a defence so we should be in a better position. Sceptics talk of the lack of pace from Lichsteiner and Sokratis on here but Lich definitely showed a few doubters that he's not finished at this level and despite being up against pace, he knew how to deal with it. He wasn't getting skinned or backing off leaving too much space like we saw from AMN.

In midfield we've added Guendouzi and Torreira. You can already see that they add a lot more to this midfield than players like Xhaka and Ramsey. They seem to understand their prime functions as CM players. That has to be a plus on last year.

The one downside is us losing Sanchez, Giroud and Theo. But all three players divided opinion on here and it was debatable whether they are suitable for the squad. On paper, you can't say Aubameyang, Lacazette and Mkhitaryan are downgrades in that department. It's debatable on how they will function as a unit but I think it should be easier getting them to function as unit over Giroud (slow), Theo (inconsistent, can't dribble) Sanchez (selfish). Not saying we won't miss what those players offered but last year, I guarantee people would have taken a swap deal for three we have now over the three we had then. You know I'm fan of Sanchez and Theo as well. But if you were leaning on the optimistic side last season, I'm not quite sure why it's as negative now when we have improved the squad on paper. I guess it boils down to how badly we performed last year under Wenger.

Which manager did you want instead of Emery? I think we've discussed the players you wanted but I didn't know you weren't swayed on Emery.

If this response times out I will kick my pc off my desk.

Ultimately I want us to have the best team possible, which means the best players in each position. That can't be achieved in one window but the sooner they come in the better in my view and unlike fans of other clubs, I don't think it should be necessary to spend yourself into oblivion in every window. So even if we spent 150 million this window, it wouldn't be necessary in every window. The sooner we are back in the CL...the sooner we can make more money and attract better players and watch better football.

I just think we were so far behind last season we should be doing as much as we can on and off the field to bridge the gap. A net spend of 100 to 150 million on signings of sure quality like Oblak is no bad thing when you seriously need it. Even if we can't win the league I still want us to be doing the most to gain the biggest improvement. I don't think we've had a world class and consistent keeper since Seaman, which is partly why I feel so strongly about that position in particular right now. I'd also argue we could not make a bigger improvement in another position. Perhaps CB..... but that's also why I'd have loved a Koulibaily, but I think bringing in a top class CB or GK that we were convinced of would have been acceptable.

I don't think Emery will get it together straight away which is also why I'd have liked another top player or two. Top players help a new manager out whilst he is fixing and undoing years of fundamental flaws. Also, if we fail to make top 4 and don't win the Europa which isn't impossible, the first thing that will be questioned is the summer recruitment rather than Emery himself as we are all trying to give him a chance. Even with the signings we've made we can't be sure we will finish top 4 and many of the pundits firmly expect us not to be. Not that what they say is gospel, but there are valid reasons for many of their thinking.

I am happy with Emery but no he wasn't my choice. I was not of the Simeone persuasion as I can't bare his style.....but my choice would have been Jardim. A record of working with young players and getting the best out of young plays as well as winning against the odds against teams with larger budgets and more talent. Allegri would have been up there too, but I like a lot of what I know about Emery and I don't expect the club's every decision to be to my exact choice and thinking.

[Özim]

Yes that's right. With newly promoted teams like Fulham, I believe they can increase their bill by a much higher threshold than others. It's way more than 7%. I think around 40% to 60%. The exact figure is in that second article somewhere.

That's true but what about West Ham and Everton though?

[Power n Glory]

That's true but what about West Ham and Everton though?

Come on man. Read the fair play link I shared. It's all there. You tell me? I can't spoon feed everything here.

[Özim]

Come on man. Read the fair play link I shared. It's all there. You tell me? I can't spoon feed everything here.

I read it, are you saying Everton and West Ham increased revenue from commercial income, player trading and Match Day income and we didn't? If so that's pretty poor from the club,

I don't think this stops club spending at all, Liverpool are a perfect example, huge spend, huge increase in wages, they must have some serious increase in commercial income.

I know we signed up Ozil/Auba etc but we took a lot of players off the wage bill last season so that would have probably more than made up for that. Also if that was the case we'd have sold more players to make space for new signings and we didn't really sell many (Perez was the only one and that was late on in the window), seems odd to me.

Like anything, clubs find ways round it if they really want to. Plus with salaries still skyrocketing comparing wages now to those in 2012-2013 or 2016-2017 just doesn't work.

[Power n Glory]

I read it, are you saying Everton and West Ham increased revenue from commercial income, player trading and Match Day income and we didn't? If so that's pretty poor from the club.

You tell me. Tell me why Chelsea's new manager only gets one new outfield player or why Man Utd have spent peanuts compared to what they usually would despite finishing so far behind City.

Everything is 'pretty poor' from the club in your eyes. But surpise, surprise.

[Power n Glory]

If this response times out I will kick my pc off my desk.

Ultimately I want us to have the best team possible, which means the best players in each position. That can't be achieved in one window but the sooner they come in the better in my view and unlike fans of other clubs, I don't think it should be necessary to spend yourself into oblivion in every window. So even if we spent 150 million this window, it wouldn't be necessary in every window. The sooner we are back in the CL...the sooner we can make more money and attract better players and watch better football.

I just think we were so far behind last season we should be doing as much as we can on and off the field to bridge the gap. A net spend of 100 to 150 million on signings of sure quality like Oblak is no bad thing when you seriously need it. Even if we can't win the league I still want us to be doing the most to gain the biggest improvement. I don't think we've had a world class and consistent keeper since Seaman, which is partly why I feel so strongly about that position in particular right now. I'd also argue we could not make a bigger improvement in another position. Perhaps CB..... but that's also why I'd have loved a Koulibaily, but I think bringing in a top class CB or GK that we were convinced of would have been acceptable.

I don't think Emery will get it together straight away which is also why I'd have liked another top player or two. Top players help a new manager out whilst he is fixing and undoing years of fundamental flaws. Also, if we fail to make top 4 and don't win the Europa which isn't impossible, the first thing that will be questioned is the summer recruitment rather than Emery himself as we are all trying to give him a chance. Even with the signings we've made we can't be sure we will finish top 4 and many of the pundits firmly expect us not to be. Not that what they say is gospel, but there are valid reasons for many of their thinking.

I am happy with Emery but no he wasn't my choice. I was not of the Simeone persuasion as I can't bare his style.....but my choice would have been Jardim. A record of working with young players and getting the best out of young plays as well as winning against the odds against teams with larger budgets and more talent. Allegri would have been up there too, but I like a lot of what I know about Emery and I don't expect the club's every decision to be to my exact choice and thinking.

I hear you. Just have to go with the flow on this one and 'trust the process'. I guess for me, the most important thing right now is the football and how we play. Not necessarily the end result in terms of league position or titles. Under Wenger, it wasn't just us dropping down the table and not winning trophies that turned things sour for. We totally lost our way under Wenger in terms of football style and direction. I couldn't work out what he was trying to do with the type of players he bought or what he was doing with our youth players. It was clear he couldn't coach young players anymore and he couldn't be trusted to spend money on players either. Didn't matter whether they were established players, experienced unknowns... same results.

That's why I think it's important Emery gets the foundation right first. If he can show what he can do with little, then trust him with more. That's what usually happens with most coaches. I'm in support of Emery but still say we exercise caution because I don't want to see a repeat of the last few years of Wenger where we have wasted talent and resources because the coaching was poor along with the tactics. Fans like Zim will call for the club to spend now but then have 20/20 hindsight and say we've planned badly if the spending route goes wrong. Let's see what Emery can do before we go nuts.

[Özim]

You tell me. Tell me why Chelsea's new manager only gets one new outfield player or why Man Utd have spent peanuts compared to what they usually would despite finishing so far behind City.

Everything is 'pretty poor' from the club in your eyes. But surpise, surprise.

I can't.

Chelsea spent a fair amount with the 71 million for the keeper and Jorginho, signed Kovacic on loan and bought a backup keeper in green and that's on top of the manager coming in very late so hardly surprising.

Man U went after several players (Godin being one) but got turned down for one reason or another, but they were 2nd last season but they still brought Dalot, Fred and Grant and that's on top of signings Alexis in January from us (yes I know we got Mhiki but let's face it he was a cast off and we had little choice), so actually it's not for want of trying.

We were absolute miles behind and yet invested less than those two and what's worse wasted money giving some duds new contracts and failed to sell our rejects so that we could spend more, last summer we actually made a profit, which did get wiped up in January I grant you (but we weren't far from break even), so that's pretty much 70-80 million in two summer windows. Pretty poor show.

[Power n Glory]

See my post to Blink. No need to respond to it. It's just a pointless conversation with you now. Everything is anti Arsenal.

[IBK]

I hear you. Just have to go with the flow on this one and 'trust the process'. I guess for me, the most important thing right now is the football and how we play. Not necessarily the end result in terms of league position or titles. Under Wenger, it wasn't just us dropping down the table and not winning trophies that turned things sour for. We totally lost our way under Wenger in terms of football style and direction. I couldn't work out what he was trying to do with the type of players he bought or what he was doing with our youth players. It was clear he couldn't coach young players anymore and he couldn't be trusted to spend money on players either. Didn't matter whether they were established players, experienced unknowns... same results.

That's why I think it's important Emery gets the foundation right first. If he can show what he can do with little, then trust him with more. That's what usually happens with most coaches. I'm in support of Emery but still say we exercise caution because I don't want to see a repeat of the last few years of Wenger where we have wasted talent and resources because the coaching was poor along with the tactics. Fans like Zim will call for the club to spend now but then have 20/20 hindsight and say we've planned badly if the spending route goes wrong. Let's see what Emery can do before we go nuts.

Couldn't agree more :good:

[Power n Glory]

Couldn't agree more :good:

Good to see you back.

[selassie]

Hmmm I can see where you are coming from, but my view is that first and foremost this bunch of players needs a new shape; a new system of playing and in particular to learn to defend as a team. There were some signs of the latter in Sunday's game despite the errors that led to the goals and as I've seen somewhere else, in the latter stages Citeh themselves were almost caught out by the pressing game that Emery is also trying to introduce. I'd agree that our signings seem somewhat underwhelming, but I can see the sense in not breaking the bank until Emery has had the opportunity to properly introduce his system, and seeing how our existing players respond to this.

I'm not sure that I agree with those advocating giving up on our most expensive player (Ozil) just yet. There is some sense in persevering with our investment for another season. Similarly, Ramsey IMO is quality, and I'm not sure who else is available who would be an improvement on him if the manager can get the MF pairings right - I can see sense in trying to get him to sign a new contract rather than paying what it would take to replace him.

It might be a cautious approach not to break the bank bringing in the fabled 'world class' players in this period of relative turmoil, but I have no massive qualms with this. Let's wait and see whether things can settle down and move forwards under Emery before looking to purchase further.

Fair points from you IBK, it's good to see you posting here on the regs again. :)

So Ozil, I myself have kept fairly quiet on him but the whole thing is turning into a bit of a circus now and it's about time I had my say. Ozil is on 330K per week, that is a top tier player wage, a wage of a player who absolutely should be making a difference every single time he sets foot on the field.

Ozil is unquestionably one of our best players but I am personally am not happy with what he produces in relation to the wage he earns. This is a player who now earns so much that we are struggling to tie down other members of the team who are arguably as important to us as him, if not more so.

Ozil absolutely needs to be producing top tier performances from now on in every game, that's why we pay him that wage, he has no more excuses left IMO.

I do get that Emery needs time to work with the current players and he needs time to implement his system. What does need to happen though is improvement, I'm not advocating or demanding we make top 4 because I don't think that is achievable this season but I want to see the TEAM improve, to compete with the teams above us and to be organised.

Another season adrift and we simply won't be in a position to make these more high profile purchases that I and other are craving for, our rep is already slightly damaged in terms of attractiveness and younger "slightly high profile" players wanting to come here, another season out of Top 4 / CL and not competing will further dampen our reputation.

Progress and improvement this season is absolutely essential.