Dissecting Emery's Arsenal

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Wengerball continues it seems!

Alright seriously, I'll start with the postives...

1.No more 70 minute predictable subs.
2. Um ...... players working harder?? (prolly the new coach effect)

TBH, I'm not impressed with the way our new coach has started and the fact that we seem to have the same failings makes me think he just hasn't done his homework on this team or on this league properly.

His high defensive lines , poor starting lineups and wingbacks abandoning their positions with relish makes me wonder if we will be able to compete with the big boys at all this season.

Yes the football has been attractive, but we could have played this under AW ........ I'm just struggling to stay positve after what I've seen in these last 3 games. Someone give me something

[Master Splinter]

Wengerball ended in 2008.

[Özim]

For me there's positives and negatives.

Positives, I like to see us make subs earlier to change things, these definitely making a difference and it's good to see he does try to change things. Think the pressing game could be good, needs the players to get us to it but longer term it should be good.

Negatives, the lineups, picking the same team 3 matches running when we lost the 1st too (other than Ozil who he says was injured), really? Not liking that at all, if players don't perform you change things, for a start Xhaka should never have played in a million years, he's been awful, secondly Lacazette should have played. Also I'll go back to the keeping situation, paying 20+ million for a keeper and not playing him is a waste, we should have just spent the money elsewhere on another outfiled player and just stuck to the keepers we have, we need more investment in the outfield areas.

The defence was clueless, playing a high line with centre backs with no pace is ridiculous, full backs always attacking and getting caught out is also not great, no signs of playing as a unit at mo, but it's early on.

[Letters]

The defence was clueless, playing a high line with centre backs with no pace is ridiculous, full backs always attacking and getting caught out is also not great, no signs of playing as a unit at mo, but it's early on.

I’m not a fan of Shearer but his analysis on MoTD was spot on.
Both full backs pushing up at the same time leaves us horribly exposed, West Ham caught us time after time and a better team would have punished us.
Early days and we have to give Emery time but some worrying signs.

[I am invisible]

For me there's positives and negatives.

Positives, I like to see us make subs earlier to change things, these definitely making a difference and it's good to see he does try to change things....

...Negatives, the lineups, picking the same team 3 matches running when we lost the 1st too (other than Ozil who he says was injured), really? Not liking that at all, if players don't perform you change things...

Your first positive there should give you a bit of hope for your main negative - he obviously sees who is performing and who isn’t, and he isn’t afraid to hook big names at any moment during a game.

I think we need to have a little appreciation for the balancing act he has on hands at the moment in terms of man-management - as much as probably wants to make certain changes, I think he knows that, if he comes in and immediately starts swinging his dick around, he’s going to lose the dressing room. We’ve already seen stories being leaked to the press (most likely from Ramsey’s agent) about how the whole dressing room was “shocked” at Ramsey being dropped for the Chelsea game, so that hints at what he’s up against. As I said in the match thread, he may be giving certain players enough rope to hang themselves in these early games, so he can drive through the changes he wants without argument when he’s settled on his best XI?

[Globalgunner]

All the same I'm really worried about the mentality in this club and team. It seems there is a feckless attitude maybe a remnant of the Wenger years when it seemed that win, lose or draw, everyone of the players and staff went home happy.
I was shocked at the Wolves performance against City with players no one would want at Arsenal and a manager l have never heard of. They were fearless Titans while we against them were totally awestruck.
I hope Bould isn't just there as window dressing or an insurance fallback. I don't see him Integrated into the Emery team. He should have been chomping at the bit to throw off the shackles and unleash he'll now. His non appearances on the bench seems to me like we have skipped on adding something that was missing from this team.

[Coney]

Emery needs to change the style of play that the players are used to. He also needs to learn the PL game and how his ideas fit into it - he will also need to adapt his initial ideas in the light of experience. Some things will work, some won't. I am expecting a few iffy games here and there.

Three games is not enough to judge him on. He tried pressing with the fullbacks and got found out. If he learns from that and changes some of the tactics to cover it, that is perfectly fine and a good sign.

I think anyone saying he is no good at this stage is being very premature. He might be crap he might be very clever and just what we need. But 2 games against established top sides and one trying out a tactic with the fullbacks is not enough to judge him on.

Some impatient people might expect a quick improvement over Wenger (think about that - look at how high we were under Wenger even in his worst years and be grateful) but nothing is going to happen overnight.

I would rather we built up over a season and then bought some more players where needed than have a great couple of months of superficial success followed by a crash and burn.

I think we need to wait till later in the year - beginning of December before we start to make serious judgements.

[Power n Glory]

All the same I'm really worried about the mentality in this club and team. It seems there is a feckless attitude maybe a remnant of the Wenger years when it seemed that win, lose or draw, everyone of the players and staff went home happy.
I was shocked at the Wolves performance against City with players no one would want at Arsenal and a manager l have never heard of. They were fearless Titans while we against them were totally awestruck.
I hope Bould isn't just there as window dressing or an insurance fallback. I don't see him Integrated into the Emery team. He should have been chomping at the bit to throw off the shackles and unleash he'll now. His non appearances on the bench seems to me like we have skipped on adding something that was missing from this team.

Let's be fair, Wolves are a newly promoted team but that wasn't Nuno's first game in charge of Wolves. They won the Championship last year and we're seeing a well drilled team with players that know the coach and their roles well.

The West Ham performance worries me the most. We didn't control the game with possession despite Emery saying that was the intention before kick off. Our pressing game looks no different to what I've seen from previous Arsenal teams. The CB's had no protection from the midfield yesterday. Whatever we've been working on in training with our midfield and defence looks nonexistent.

We should have lost that game. If not for Cech, we'd have lost. On the plus side, good to see Monreal back and despite some defensive blunders, Bellerin set up two goals. Lacazette should be starting games by now as well. We'll see what sort of sort of shape we're in for the next game but I'm concerned by what I saw yesterday. We have the players to dominate West Ham. Pellegrini knows him well from their days in La Liga and that's the only bail I'll shoot Emery for this performance. Key changes needed for the next game or if he's ballsy enough to stick to the same squad, their needs to be night and day between this recent performance.

[Coney]

Let's be fair, Wolves are a newly promoted team but that wasn't Nuno's first game in charge of Wolves. They won the Championship last year and we're seeing a well drilled team with players that know the coach and their roles well.

The West Ham performance worries me the most. We didn't control the game with possession despite Emery saying that was the intention before kick off. Our pressing game looks no different to what I've seen from previous Arsenal teams. The CB's had no protection from the midfield yesterday. Whatever we've been working on in training with our midfield and defence looks nonexistent.

We should have lost that game. If not for Cech, we'd have lost. On the plus side, good to see Monreal back and despite some defensive blunders, Bellerin set up two goals. Lacazette should be starting games by now as well. We'll see what sort of sort of shape we're in for the next game but I'm concerned by what I saw yesterday. We have the players to dominate West Ham. Pellegrini knows him well from their days in La Liga and that's the only bail I'll shoot Emery for this performance. Key changes needed for the next game or if he's ballsy enough to stick to the same squad, their needs to be night and day between this recent performance.

Yes - a team just promoted having won the Championship starts with a winning mentality. A number of promoted teams have done well for the first part of the season and seem to punch above their weight. But after a couple of months, once the other teams have studied their PL tactics, the usually get found out (with the occasional exception!)

Not overly worried about the WH result atm. Ask me again after another 6 or 7 games and I might change my mind though. It is a question of whether Emery learns and adapts as the season progresses. I do not expect a new manager from outside the PL to turn things around in the first few games.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I've never been a huge fan of the school of thought that says the manager should be completely divorced from the signings made by a club. What we are seeing with us is partly why. It looks like Guendouzi is the only signing Emery had anything to do with or even cares much for. I'm not sure signing a keeper for 20 million and seeing him watch games from the bench whilst pleading poverty and having other glaring holes in the squad is exactly the type of joined up thinking I was hoping to see. I give Emery a pass on that as that is actually not his fault.

I cannot for the life of me fathom why if Emery is such a believer in the 4231 system he has not started Torreira yet. The system and his previous way of deploying it has pretty much relied on at least one player of Torreira's ilk being in the 2.

Wenger's preference for Xhaka and aversion to Laca seems to be equally present in Emery which is a worry, though at least Emery will change it mid game early doors. On that point though, I think changes can be made too early and I thought Iwobi deserved a little more time to affect the game yesterday. If you win the game, people take that as proof the decision was good, but we don't actually know what would have happened if Iwobi stayed on.

We were so exposed on the counter attack against West Ham it almost completely balanced out the dropped points at Chelsea. If we want to play such a high line and have such inadequate awkward defenders I think he really should consider a 3/5 man back line and drop Mavropranos in there. Mav will ebenefit the team, with his height, athleticism and speed and Monreal and Sokratis can help him through the games with their experience.


Still desperately disappointed about our lack of authority and control in midfield too....and I really think we may as well have kept Santi. I know he and Kos are getting on but the pair of them would make a big difference to this team even at 32/33.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Emery needs to change the style of play that the players are used to. He also needs to learn the PL game and how his ideas fit into it - he will also need to adapt his initial ideas in the light of experience. Some things will work, some won't. I am expecting a few iffy games here and there.

Three games is not enough to judge him on. He tried pressing with the fullbacks and got found out. If he learns from that and changes some of the tactics to cover it, that is perfectly fine and a good sign.

I think anyone saying he is no good at this stage is being very premature. He might be crap he might be very clever and just what we need. But 2 games against established top sides and one trying out a tactic with the fullbacks is not enough to judge him on.

Some impatient people might expect a quick improvement over Wenger (think about that - look at how high we were under Wenger even in his worst years and be grateful) but nothing is going to happen overnight.

I would rather we built up over a season and then bought some more players where needed than have a great couple of months of superficial success followed by a crash and burn.

I think we need to wait till later in the year - beginning of December before we start to make serious judgements.

I kind of agree with a lot of what you say. I know I definitely agree that 3 games isn't enough to say if a manager is world class or not.

However I think my problem is I really expected to see us being something "different" this season; I mean that "difference" could either make us better or worse; but we would be different and everyone would be able to see it and point to the "difference". You can see how different Sarri's Chelsea look from what we saw last year already.

But besides the new substitution regime it all seems pretty much the same here. Our attacking style remains the same and our defending, even with the pressing and playing two deep lying midfielders, remains the same. Do we say it's the personnel? Can our players not be coached to play in a different way? Or do we need to do a Pep and change 80% of them to suit the coach?

Let me go straight to what I think. I believe Emery is just making it up as he goes along i.e. he's not prepared. Their isn't a style or a vision he has for this team yet and thats why it seems not much has changed in style and the same personel keep starting.

Now this necessarily is not a bad thing, Pep did this with Rijkard's Barca in his first season and was quite successful- then he introduced extreme tippy tappy seasons later.

But it is disappointing to me personally, because I got tired of our style long ago and wanted to see us different. Of the 6 halves of football we've had this season I got the most pleasure from our 2nd half performance against Chelsea where we had little possession, sat deep and looked unfamiliarly comfortable doing so. Yes Chelsea eventually scored but we looked prime for the counter and I felt we could get them back. I felt we had finally seen something different, something of Emery in that half, but then we play West Ham and its pretty much all the same.

So I'm not writing the manager off yet, it just it seems like all he wants to do is fine tune us instead of going for the overhaul.

[GP]

I kind of agree with a lot of what you say. I know I definitely agree that 3 games isn't enough to say if a manager is world class or not.

However I think my problem is I really expected to see us being something "different" this season; I mean that "difference" could either make us better or worse; but we would be different and everyone would be able to see it and point to the "difference". You can see how different Sarri's Chelsea look from what we saw last year already.

But besides the new substitution regime it all seems pretty much the same here. Our attacking style remains the same and our defending, even with the pressing and playing two deep lying midfielders, remains the same. Do we say it's the personnel? Can our players not be coached to play in a different way? Or do we need to do a Pep and change 80% of them to suit the coach?

Let me go straight to what I think. I believe Emery is just making it up as he goes along i.e. he's not prepared. Their isn't a style or a vision he has for this team yet and thats why it seems not much has changed in style and the same personel keep starting.

Now this necessarily is not a bad thing, Pep did this with Rijkard's Barca in his first season and was quite successful- then he introduced extreme tippy tappy seasons later.

But it is disappointing to me personally, because I got tired of our style long ago and wanted to see us different. Of the 6 halves of football we've had this season I got the most pleasure from our 2nd half performance against Chelsea where we had little possession, sat deep and looked unfamiliarly comfortable doing so. Yes Chelsea eventually scored but we looked prime for the counter and I felt we could get them back. I felt we had finally seen something different, something of Emery in that half, but then we play West Ham and its pretty much all the same.

So I'm not writing the manager off yet, it just it seems like all he wants to do is fine tune us instead of going for the overhaul.

I couldn't disagree more.

The attack is clearly different. We're using width, particularly down the right, in a way we didn't before.

The defence is using a press we didn't use before. Yes, it needs fine-tuning and will likely take a few transfer windows to get right, but it's clearly different to what we've seen before.

[I am invisible]

Oddly enough, one of the things we were all most concerned about before the season started - lack of attacking width - has been our most consistent and effective route to goal in these opening games. Still need to get the defensive balance right, but the fullbacks are doing a great job of working around that one problem so far.

[Power n Glory]

I couldn't disagree more.

The attack is clearly different. We're using width, particularly down the right, in a way we didn't before.

The defence is using a press we didn't use before. Yes, it needs fine-tuning and will likely take a few transfer windows to get right, but it's clearly different to what we've seen before.

Agree with that. The goals we scored and some of our best chances have come from wide play and low driven crosses into the box. We haven't looked toothless in attack and just passing for the sake of passing. Not yet.

[Power n Glory]

Emery needs to change the style of play that the players are used to. He also needs to learn the PL game and how his ideas fit into it - he will also need to adapt his initial ideas in the light of experience. Some things will work, some won't. I am expecting a few iffy games here and there.

Three games is not enough to judge him on. He tried pressing with the fullbacks and got found out. If he learns from that and changes some of the tactics to cover it, that is perfectly fine and a good sign.

I think anyone saying he is no good at this stage is being very premature. He might be crap he might be very clever and just what we need. But 2 games against established top sides and one trying out a tactic with the fullbacks is not enough to judge him on.

Some impatient people might expect a quick improvement over Wenger (think about that - look at how high we were under Wenger even in his worst years and be grateful) but nothing is going to happen overnight.

I would rather we built up over a season and then bought some more players where needed than have a great couple of months of superficial success followed by a crash and burn.

I think we need to wait till later in the year - beginning of December before we start to make serious judgements.

Really disagree with the first paragraph about Emery needing to adapt to the Prem. Tactically, are their no teams that successfully play out from the back? Are their no teams that use attacking fullbacks or play a highline? It's not a case of him trying to play a style of football that work in the Prem, it's more a case of the players needing to adapt to playing a different style or he has to find players that can play that way. We're not doing anything totally original with the tactics.

For me, Emery has to experiment more with the line up but stick with the same philosophy. We're not going to get a high pressing game and control of the midfield from Xhaka, Ramsey and Ozil in the midfield. Try playing with more power and pace in the midfield. Mkhitaryan and Ozil don't cut it for me. Give Lacazette a try. Even give Welbeck a try. Give Lichsteiner some game time. I'm hoping he switches things up for the next game and experiments more.

[pakgunner]

Wengerball continues it seems!

Alright seriously, I'll start with the postives...

1.No more 70 minute predictable subs.
2. Um ...... players working harder?? (prolly the new coach effect)

TBH, I'm not impressed with the way our new coach has started and the fact that we seem to have the same failings makes me think he just hasn't done his homework on this team or on this league properly.

His high defensive lines , poor starting lineups and wingbacks abandoning their positions with relish makes me wonder if we will be able to compete with the big boys at all this season.

Yes the football has been attractive, but we could have played this under AW ........ I'm just struggling to stay positve after what I've seen in these last 3 games. Someone give me something
At this stage it seems that Emery is giving most of the starting players from last season the benefit of the doubt and the chance to maintain their starting positions, in the case for Torreira he's introducing him slowly due to his late arrival. Xhaka will be the player to lose his spot once Torreira is fit. I agree that our defense has been too open during our opening 3 fixtures but against the hammers you can understand our attacking approach i just believe he could have set things up differently. In all honesty it is early days lets judge him at the end of December. So far his trademark style of counter attack from a structured defensive formation has not been evident, he seems to be feeling for the right combinations before systemically introducing his style.

[I am invisible]

Really disagree with the first paragraph about Emery needing to adapt to the Prem. Tactically, are their no teams that successfully play out from the back? Are their no teams that use attacking fullbacks or play a highline? It's not a case of him trying to play a style of football that work in the Prem, it's more a case of the players needing to adapt to playing a different style or he has to find players that can play that way. We're not doing anything totally original with the tactics.

For me, Emery has to experiment more with the line up but stick with the same philosophy. We're not going to get a high pressing game and control of the midfield from Xhaka, Ramsey and Ozil in the midfield. Try playing with more power and pace in the midfield. Mkhitaryan and Ozil don't cut it for me. Give Lacazette a try. Even give Welbeck a try. Give Lichsteiner some game time. I'm hoping he switches things up for the next game and experiments more.
I’m not sure I’ve seen any problems so far that can’t be solved with practice, perseverance and slight tweaks to team selection? The issue with the high-line, for example, looks to be more about So crates and Mustafi getting outnumbered on the break rather than getting badly outpaced, with forwards racing miles clear of them from the half-way line - tell the fullback on the far side to hold back and put Torreira in front of them and I’m pretty sure that problem is greatly reduced (pretty sure Torreira would have been in Anderson’s face long before he got near the CBs).

Or maybe even consider a 3-man back line to free up the fullbacks, if the plan is to have both pushed forward with every attack?

Personally speaking, I think we’ll be doing well if we’ve settled on a best XI and and a shape that fits by the time we play Liverpool (and even then it will be early days for that XI)...

[I am invisible]

At this stage it seems that Emery is giving most of the starting players from last season the benefit of the doubt and the chance to maintain their starting positions, in the case for Torreira he's introducing him slowly due to his late arrival. Xhaka will be the player to lose his spot once Torreira is fit. I agree that our defense has been too open during our opening 3 fixtures but against the hammers you can understand our attacking approach i just believe he could have set things up differently. In all honesty it is early days lets judge him at the end of December. So far his trademark style of counter attack from a structured defensive formation has not been evident, he seems to be feeling for the right combinations before systemically introducing his style.

That point about combinations is an important one - trying out individual players may only take a couple of games, but working out those partnerships and combinations all over the pitch (and then working how each combo links with its neighbour) could take months, and maybe even all year.

I’m not 100% convinced Xhaka will be the one to make way for Torreira, but even if he is I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back in the side within a few games, as I’m sure that one of the combinations Emery will want to see is Xhaka-Torreira. I don’t think anyone should hit the panic button if we do start seeing players we thought we were rid of coming back into the side though - it’s gonna be part of the process for a little while to come yet...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

My fear is certainly that Emery is a long way from being done with Xhaka. On the contrary I think he prefers him.

Can't read too much into who he hooks because we've seen he's willing to take anyone off early doors.

[Mac76]

My fear is certainly that Emery is a long way from being done with Xhaka. On the contrary I think he prefers him.

Can't read too much into who he hooks because we've seen he's willing to take anyone off early doors.

He needs to use the (relatively) easier upcoming games to field two out of Holding , Mavropanos and Sokratis as CBs, with Torreira replacing Xhaka in front of them

I Am Invisible suggested three at the back to allow for Nacho and Bellerin going forward, which i think is a good shout at least for away games, so how about putting all three of the above in for Cardiff away, with just one up front?

[AFC Leveller]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40161800_2209998505904143_3408557763469508608_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&oh=05e63ebe8dac7d8228a3b10797759280&oe=5C376E02

[Power n Glory]

He needs to use the (relatively) easier upcoming games to field two out of Holding , Mavropanos and Sokratis as CBs, with Torreira replacing Xhaka in front of them

I Am Invisible suggested three at the back to allow for Nacho and Bellerin going forward, which i think is a good shout at least for away games, so how about putting all three of the above in for Cardiff away, with just one up front?

I don't mind seeing Sokratis and Mustafi try to work on their partnership. That's an issue I think can be sorted through time and coaching.

But I can't see how a player like Xhaka can make it in this team. He can't play on the half turn, can't defend and is slow and rigid. That's a player profile issue and means whoever he gets partnered with has a lot of work to do just to cover Xhaka's flaws.

[Mac76]

I don't mind seeing Sokratis and Mustafi try to work on their partnership. That's an issue I think can be sorted through time and coaching.

But I can't see how a player like Xhaka can make it in this team. He can't play on the half turn, can't defend and is slow and rigid. That's a player profile issue and means whoever he gets partnered with has a lot of work to do just to cover Xhaka's flaws.

Mustafi got done for the W Ham goal and is as much to blame for anyone for the mess at the back, i'd much rather Holding or Mavropanos in there

I do wonder why we even bother having those players if someone like Mustafi can mess up every week and still get the nod - he's 26 now so if he can't defend i'd argue it's too late to coach him

I actually think Emery has more excuse for Xhaka, as his contract was renewed by Ivan et al in the summer so Emery probably feels he needs to at least give him a go before dropping him, but he's surely seen enough now...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

He needs to use the (relatively) easier upcoming games to field two out of Holding , Mavropanos and Sokratis as CBs, with Torreira replacing Xhaka in front of them

I Am Invisible suggested three at the back to allow for Nacho and Bellerin going forward, which i think is a good shout at least for away games, so how about putting all three of the above in for Cardiff away, with just one up front?

My preferred formation for the squad of players, their strengths and weaknesses is a 3412 which gets Auba and Laca in in front of Ozil as well as including Bell, Nacho and Mav, but I don't expect Emery to seriously consider that just as Wenger didn't consider 3 at the back for donkey years.

And whilst I'd fire Xhaka and Mustafi out of our relic canons in front of the stadium, I accept that a) We didn't bother to sign a top CB in the summer and b) Emery isn't washing his hands of Xhaka anytime soon.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Mustafi got done for the W Ham goal and is as much to blame for anyone for the mess at the back, i'd much rather Holding or Mavropanos in there

I do wonder why we even bother having those players if someone like Mustafi can mess up every week and still get the nod - he's 26 now so if he can't defend i'd argue it's too late to coach him

I actually think Emery has more excuse for Xhaka, as his contract was renewed by Ivan et al in the summer so Emery probably feels he needs to at least give him a go before dropping him, but he's surely seen enough now...

...but he didn't need to start the season with him and he hasn't started the season with Leno.

[I am invisible]

He needs to use the (relatively) easier upcoming games to field two out of Holding , Mavropanos and Sokratis as CBs, with Torreira replacing Xhaka in front of them

I Am Invisible suggested three at the back to allow for Nacho and Bellerin going forward, which i think is a good shout at least for away games, so how about putting all three of the above in for Cardiff away, with just one up front?
(To be fair, I think I actually stole the three-at-the-back idea from Blink, but don’t tell him.)

[I am invisible]

My fear is certainly that Emery is a long way from being done with Xhaka. On the contrary I think he prefers him.

Can't read too much into who he hooks because we've seen he's willing to take anyone off early doors.
I don’t think it has anything to do with Xhaka himself - he just favours that kind of deep midfield quarterback. For that reason I think he may persevere with him a little longer than other midfielders, who are a less obvious fit for his preferred system (on paper), but that doesn’t mean his patience with him will be infinite. I suspect that, given a chance, Torreira and Guendouzi will immediately show more in terms of distribution than Xhaka (and with more besides), but we may have to wait for that particular combo to get its chance. Patience.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

(To be fair, I think I actually stole the three-at-the-back idea from Blink, but don’t tell him.)

Old Herb Chapman pinched it from me too don't ya know.....

[selassie]

We have the weakest First XI and Squad of all the top 6 teams by quite some distance IMO. Emery has a helluva job to get us back amongst the top 4 and making credible title challenges. We are still a couple of seasons away from that IMO.

[Power n Glory]

We have the weakest First XI and Squad of all the top 6 teams by quite some distance IMO. Emery has a helluva job to get us back amongst the top 4 and making credible title challenges. We are still a couple of seasons away from that IMO.

I wouldn't say we have the weakest player for player. It all comes back down to coaching. If I had never seen a Klopp Liverpool side, there is no way I'd think Mane, Salah and Firminho would be better than Aubameyang, Lacazette and Mkhitaryan. Same goes for those Tottenham players. It comes back to good coaching because a lot of those players have no record had us clamouring for their signatures.

[selassie]

I wouldn't say we have the weakest player for player. It all comes back down to coaching. If I had never seen a Klopp Liverpool side, there is no way I'd think Mane, Salah and Firminho would be better than Aubameyang, Lacazette and Mkhitaryan. Same goes for those Tottenham players. It comes back to good coaching because a lot of those players have no record had us clamouring for their signatures.

Hmmm...I think that is debateable. We most definitely have the weakest keepers and defence in comparison to our rivals.

Midfield wise I think we are lacking a bit too...though I do have high hopes for Torreira and Guendozi.

Our attacking options are admittedly pretty decent as you rightly pointed out, but we don't have a star in our forward line like say Liverpool do in Salah, the Spuds in Kane or City in Aguero.

Our bench options outside of the attacking positions are very questionable too.

I do agree that coaching can and will likely improve some of these guys..but I also feel that Emery has inherited a very "Wenger" centric team and as such will want to make his own relative personnel changes.

I think Emery will build a decent team / squad in time so not all is lost.

[Power n Glory]

But who was Salah before he signed for Liverpool? If you heard it was a choice between Salah and Mkhitaryan, Firminho and Aubameyang, we'd all have chosen the Dortmund boys without question.

Wijnaldum and Milner wouldn't have been on many people's wish list either. I have no idea who those fullbacks are either.

It comes back to good coaching and I hope Emery can pull something out of this team or discover new gems because the players Liverpool and Spuds currently have weren't on the top of the transfer shopping list but they've now developed into must have players.

[Özim]

I agree with Selassie, our squad is the weakest, I don't hold much hope for many of these Wenger players, many of them are substandard rubbish he brought in (often on the cheap) looking for the next best thing and hoping he gets lucky.

The forward line is decent (Lacazette and Aubameyang anyway) but the rest is pretty questionnable, the defence is shocking to be honest, Mustafi, Bellerin, Holding, Chambers, all defenders who can't defend, with us buying Sokratis it hasn't helped as unfortunately he lacks pace and we already lacked that at the back, so him and Mustafi make an easy target for pacey teams, in goal we have Cech who makes some decent saves, but can't pass and also makes his fair share of errors and of course Leno that we don't even trust after a 20 million move in the summer (hardly going to inspire confidence in a keeper already lacking confidence from his hit and miss season last season)

The midfield also lacks quality, Xhaka should be ditched, you don't need to see him anymore to realise he's rubbish, Ramsey is pretty much off and inconsistent, we have no wingers, Mkhitaryan is too lightweight IMO and Ozil is inconsistent (not a big fan of Iwobi either if I'm honest), I have high hopes for Torreira and Guendouzi but we need a lot more than that.

The lack of quality for a club of our level is quite frankly shocking, most of these guys have been playing the Wenger way for years and quite frankly I'm not sure they're suited to a different game, I think we need big big changes and maybe Emery is starting to discover that after 3 very abject performances.

[selassie]

But who was Salah before he signed for Liverpool? If you heard it was a choice between Salah and Mkhitaryan, Firminho and Aubameyang, we'd all have chosen the Dortmund boys without question.

Wijnaldum and Milner wouldn't have been on many people's wish list either. I have no idea who those fullbacks are either.

It comes back to good coaching and I hope Emery can pull something out of this team or discover new gems because the players Liverpool and Spuds currently have weren't on the top of the transfer shopping list but they've now developed into must have players.

Salah's emergence at Liverpool has been very impressive and very surprising...but....he was putting in very good performances and posting decent enough numbers in Italy prior to his move to Liverpool.

Obviously I didn't expect him to develop into a World Class player so quickly but he came to Liverpool off the back of 2 very good seasons at Roma, admittedly scoring 15 goals each season which is nowhere near his scoring ratio at Liverpool.

I hear you, I would have preferred our boys...they are developed and ready made stars so to speak but until they post numbers equivalent to those mentioned Liverpool players then we have an inferior attack.

Yeah I agree on Wijnaldum and Milner, they are depth players for Liverpool really even though they have been first choice so far this season. I have no doubts that Fabinho and Henderson will eventually replace them in their preferred starting line up. They still have OX too assuming he comes back to the same level as last season, Liverpool have quality options in Midfield IMO.

I do agree with your point though, it's down to us to develop and unearth gems...or at least polish up potential to a high level like Liverpool and Spuds have done.

[Özim]

If I'm honest, it's a shame we didn't get that young guy from PSG as well in the summer, might have been another to get excited about, right now we've got Guendouzi and Mavropanos (who doesn't seem to be anywhere near playing), could have used a few more potential stars to try out as our squad is largely Wenger players, out of our summer signings Lichsteiner (we he got a sub appearance) and Leno don't feature at all and Torreira is just a sub with Xhaka being preferred, think we needed a bit more than that because this Wenger squad was a load of rubbish, look how they did last season.

If it had been me, I'd have been quick to ditch half of these Wenger players out of the team, did Emery not know anything about Arsenal before he arrived, even though we played PSG a few times whilst he was manager? I was hoping to see more lineup changes then I've seen from Emery so far, at the moment it just looks largely like a Wenger team, I really wanted to see us move away from that as quickly as possible with an injection if new blood, think the reason we're so stale so far is that most of these guys have no real desire to succeed, they've been use to the easy life and it shows, not sure you can change that weak mentality either.

[Power n Glory]

Salah's emergence at Liverpool has been very impressive and very surprising...but....he was putting in very good performances and posting decent enough numbers in Italy prior to his move to Liverpool.

Obviously I didn't expect him to develop into a World Class player so quickly but he came to Liverpool off the back of 2 very good seasons at Roma, admittedly scoring 15 goals each season which is nowhere near his scoring ratio at Liverpool.

I hear you, I would have preferred our boys...they are developed and ready made stars so to speak but until they post numbers equivalent to those mentioned Liverpool players then we have an inferior attack.

Yeah I agree on Wijnaldum and Milner, they are depth players for Liverpool really even though they have been first choice so far this season. I have no doubts that Fabinho and Henderson will eventually replace them in their preferred starting line up. They still have OX too assuming he comes back to the same level as last season, Liverpool have quality options in Midfield IMO.

I do agree with your point though, it's down to us to develop and unearth gems...or at least polish up potential to a high level like Liverpool and Spuds have done.

Salah had a decent record in Roma but not a soul on hear said we should sign and I'm pretty sure his record at Chelsea would have been brought up if we did. Whenever there were talks of us needing a winger, Mkhitaryan's name was constant before he went to Utd and Draxler is another one.

Pound for pound, we are definitely the worst of the bunch. But we're not a functioning team and need some time because I seriously doubt anyone here would have looked at Liverpool and Tottenham's squads without seeing how they'd perform under their managers and say they're title contenders. Looking at Utd, you'd think Martial, Sanchez, Pogba and Lukkau would be tearing things up but they're not. We're in a similar situation because we signed some players with massive reputations but aren't delivering.

This is why I have my current stance on transfers. You just never know what's going to work despite players looking great on paper. A lot depends on the manager behind the team.

[selassie]

Salah had a decent record in Roma but not a soul on hear said we should sign and I'm pretty sure his record at Chelsea would have been brought up if we did. Whenever there were talks of us needing a winger, Mkhitaryan's name was constant before he went to Utd and Draxler is another one.

Pound for pound, we are definitely the worst of the bunch. But we're not a functioning team and need some time because I seriously doubt anyone here would have looked at Liverpool and Tottenham's squads without seeing how they'd perform under their managers and say they're title contenders. Looking at Utd, you'd think Martial, Sanchez, Pogba and Lukkau would be tearing things up but they're not. We're in a similar situation because we signed some players with massive reputations but aren't delivering.

This is why I have my current stance on transfers. You just never know what's going to work despite players looking great on paper. A lot depends on the manager behind the team.

Can't argue with this. However we need to see some clear direction and function within this team with the current set of players pretty soon, otherwise many of them need to be ditched.

Emery has time to build a style and identity to this team, but he shouldn't cling on to players in a "Wenger" kind of style if they don't deliver.

The likes of Mkhi, Ramsey, Ozil, Auba and Laca, in addition to Xhaka, Mustafi and Bellerin should be delivering right NOW, no more excuses. These guys are paid top money and some of them came here for pretty sizeable fees. If they aren't producing then they need to be replaced.

[selassie]

If I'm honest, it's a shame we didn't get that young guy from PSG as well in the summer, might have been another to get excited about, right now we've got Guendouzi and Mavropanos (who doesn't seem to be anywhere near playing), could have used a few more potential stars to try out as our squad is largely Wenger players, out of our summer signings Lichsteiner (we he got a sub appearance) and Leno don't feature at all and Torreira is just a sub with Xhaka being preferred, think we needed a bit more than that because this Wenger squad was a load of rubbish, look how they did last season.

If it had been me, I'd have been quick to ditch half of these Wenger players out of the team, did Emery not know anything about Arsenal before he arrived, even though we played PSG a few times whilst he was manager? I was hoping to see more lineup changes then I've seen from Emery so far, at the moment it just looks largely like a Wenger team, I really wanted to see us move away from that as quickly as possible with an injection if new blood, think the reason we're so stale so far is that most of these guys have no real desire to succeed, they've been use to the easy life and it shows, not sure you can change that weak mentality either.

I personally am prepared to give Emery until the new year with this current set of players, by then we will get an idea of what does and doesn't work.

I personally think he's not overly impressed with a lot of the senior players here, Ramsey, Xhaka and Ozil have been either dropped or subbed quite early on in games so he certainly doesn't seem to favour any of these guys.

I think making all the changes in the summer would have been a step too far but I certainly don't want him persisting with any of these aforementioned players if they are not delivering.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I have been impressed with Klopp, because clearly has a strong sense of player profile. Firminho, Salah and Mane were not the stand out names when he signed them but he identified certain skills and brought in those players accordingly. Very impressive stuff and look what they have become.

Our central defence is behind the others (though it is clearly a case of a lacking of coaching) in the top 6 but we otherwise are a match for the rest....and I also think a whole lot is down to coaching.

[Marc Overmars]

I agree, with so much money around now having a top coach is pretty much the difference maker.

Our team is structurally a mess because of the previous regime. Emery will need a lot of time to get his ideas drilled into the heads of the players but the players also probably need time themselves to adapt to a change in culture.

I've always said this season is a bit of a free hit as long as we see some signs of improvement.

[selassie]

I agree, with so much money around now having a top coach is pretty much the difference maker.

Our team is structurally a mess because of the previous regime. Emery will need a lot of time to get his ideas drilled into the heads of the players but the players also probably need time themselves to adapt to a change in culture.

I've always said this season is a bit of a free hit as long as we see some signs of improvement.

This

[IBK]

But who was Salah before he signed for Liverpool? If you heard it was a choice between Salah and Mkhitaryan, Firminho and Aubameyang, we'd all have chosen the Dortmund boys without question.

Wijnaldum and Milner wouldn't have been on many people's wish list either. I have no idea who those fullbacks are either.

It comes back to good coaching and I hope Emery can pull something out of this team or discover new gems because the players Liverpool and Spuds currently have weren't on the top of the transfer shopping list but they've now developed into must have players.

Well Pochetino has had since 2014, and Klopp since 2015 to develop his team, and neither manager has won anything with them yet. No clearer sign that Emery needs time before he is judged.

[Power n Glory]

Well Pochetino has had since 2014, and Klopp since 2015 to develop his team, and neither manager has won anything with them yet. No clearer sign that Emery needs time before he is judged.

That too.

[Bumble]

Well Pochetino has had since 2014, and Klopp since 2015 to develop his team, and neither manager has won anything with them yet. No clearer sign that Emery needs time before he is judged.

Winning things is incredibly difficult. The cups owe an element to luck and the league is the best team. Emery could win something in his first year but also could win nothing in 5 years. What Pochetino and Klopp have done is shown continual improvement and if Emery can do that then we are doing well. To beat City to the league needs City really to fall down.

[Marc Overmars]

If Emery can make our style of play more exciting and effective, get some wins against the top sides and just generally change the perception of us being also-rans, then he will be doing a good job. Improvement is something we haven't seen in years, under Wenger it was always stagnation and then eventually decline. Cups would be a big bonus but it will be what happens in the league and in Europe that will define Emery.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40161800_2209998505904143_3408557763469508608_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&oh=05e63ebe8dac7d8228a3b10797759280&oe=5C376E02

We are halfway there.

[selassie]

I love this guy.

He has upped the standards, I think we are in very safe hands with him as our Manager.

[Gooner23]

I really like that he has a clear plan before each match, but also that he is willing and able to adapt when he realises things aren't working. No more robotic substitutions. He also seems to understand player rotation without killing momentum.

Plenty of positives so far.

[Özim]

Also Emeryball :bow:

[selassie]

I really like that he has a clear plan before each match, but also that he is willing and able to adapt when he realises things aren't working. No more robotic substitutions. He also seems to understand player rotation without killing momentum.

Plenty of positives so far.

Yep most def.

[selassie]

Also Emeryball :bow:

Aye, we have played some great football on occasions this season.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Emery is proving himself as a very capable manager (not that he was ever incapable, but more because of the uncertainty), I love watching him on the sidelines - it’s such a monumental change from having wenger sat in the chair with his arms crossed.

The team are starting to have that winning mentality that we have craved for the last 10 years, and he is absolutely key to that.

Ironically, Wenger going last season was the best thing to happen to us since Wenger arrived all those years ago.

[Penguin]

He's doing a great job. There's still issues like our defending and the slow starts, but hopefully he will sort that out once he's had enough time to get his messages accross and had a couple of transfer windows to get our squad in shape.

[Letters]

Some good analysis here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46044105

[Mac76]

I was listening to the Arseblog podcast last night about Sunday’s game and they made the point that with a two week break now upon us, Emery has time to sit back and think about how to get the most effective set of players working well on the pitch

They made the point that at the moment he's still trying to fit square pegs into round holes, the most obvious example being Auba on the left which doesn't really work

So he now perhaps just needs to focus on a really effective 11 rather than trying to squeeze certain players in.

I think that’s a really good point and starting with Bournemouth away we need to see that he’s thought through how to get a cohesive team out there consistently, not just for something like the Liverpool game, and get us firing properly right from the first whistle rather than by making changes at half-time.

They also were asked a fascinating question about which players they thought were likely to be part of Emery’s long-term squad, and using the players that played on Sunday as a basis, from memory they thought the following:

Yes:

Leno
Bellerin
Mustafi (sadly)
Holding
Torreira
Xhaka (again, sadly)
Iwobi
Laca
Guendouzi

No:

Kolasinac
Mhki
Auba – surprising though you can see where they’re coming from given Emery is struggling to work out how to best use him and it’s unlikely he’d be happy being a supersub replacement for Welbeck
Ozil (although apparently he’s an ambassador for our new kit sponsor Adidas, so that might complicate things)
Ramsey


Clearly Nelson has to be a part of our future and hopefully Nketiah, also AMN, plus clearly we’ll have to replace Cech in the next season or two along with Monreal

[Özim]

I was listening to the Arseblog podcast last night about Sunday’s game and they made the point that with a two week break now upon us, Emery has time to sit back and think about how to get the most effective set of players working well on the pitch

They made the point that at the moment he's still trying to fit square pegs into round holes, the most obvious example being Auba on the left which doesn't really work

So he now perhaps just needs to focus on a really effective 11 rather than trying to squeeze certain players in.

I think that’s a really good point and starting with Bournemouth away we need to see that he’s thought through how to get a cohesive team out there consistently, not just for something like the Liverpool game, and get us firing properly right from the first whistle rather than by making changes at half-time.

They also were asked a fascinating question about which players they thought were likely to be part of Emery’s long-term squad, and using the players that played on Sunday as a basis, from memory they thought the following:

Yes:

Leno
Bellerin
Mustafi (sadly)
Holding
Torreira
Xhaka (again, sadly)
Iwobi
Laca
Guendouzi

No:

Kolasinac
Mhki
Auba – surprising though you can see where they’re coming from given Emery is struggling to work out how to best use him and it’s unlikely he’d be happy being a supersub replacement for Welbeck
Ozil (although apparently he’s an ambassador for our new kit sponsor Adidas, so that might complicate things)
Ramsey


Clearly Nelson has to be a part of our future and hopefully Nketiah, also AMN, plus clearly we’ll have to replace Cech in the next season or two along with Monreal

If Mustafi, Xhaka and to some extent Holding are part of our long term plan and we're going to build a team with them, IMO we can forget of winning anything or even challenging, they are sub-standard, in the case of the 1st two error prone and frankly just not the kind of quality you need.

That's my one reservation about Emery so far, sticking to players who aren't good enough, I don't really understand why a manager can't see certain players are liabilities, I understood with Wenger because he was blinkered and was out to prove the world and his dog wrong, but Emery doesn't have that excuse.

Kolasinac, Ramsey, Mhki I don't care about, we don't need them, Aubameyang scores goals so we need to keep him as long as he's still delivering, Ozil is Ozil brilliant one moment and poor the next, but can't see us selling him.

What about the young Greek CB, I guess he just doesn't rate him right?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

He's going to have to make use of Ozil either way as he won't be able to get rid of him.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Mav is injured and has been for some time. Holding is a good player and I didn't think played badly against Wolves. Traore would have skinned anybody in Holding's position for their late chance....and I include Bellerin in that.

[Özim]

Mav is injured and has been for some time. Holding is a good player and I didn't think played badly against Wolves. Traore would have skinned anybody in Holding's position for their late chance....and I include Bellerin in that.

Holding is OK, but he's nothing special, I think we need a really top quality CB and then another young one who has the potential to be top class, that could be Mavropanos but it may not be, it isn't Holding though IMO and I personally think we need to stop settling.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

We could still get rid of Chambers, Mustafi and Koscielny (though I don't want him out myself) in the summer and Sokratis is no spring chicken so with that in mind.....even if you don't rate Holding, there's no reason to go fishing for a buyer.

Holding being here doesn't preclude us from signing a top Centre half. Being miserly / short of funds does.

I wanted us to sign one in the summer myself

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I would be happy with...Mav, Holding, Sok +top CB and maybe another (Kos).

City aren't so far ahead of the rest because of their backline....it's all about their midfield and attack and collective play.

[Globalgunner]

I would be happy with...Mav, Holding, Sok +top CB and maybe another (Kos).

City aren't so far ahead of the rest because of their backline....it's all about their midfield and attack and collective play.

City are ahead because every single member of their forward line. starting from the DM is a scoring threat. Our front line is quite blunt in comparison. If Auba and Laca arent doing it, we are toothless.

[Özim]

I would be happy with...Mav, Holding, Sok +top CB and maybe another (Kos).

City aren't so far ahead of the rest because of their backline....it's all about their midfield and attack and collective play.

True but saying that look how many they've conceded this season and you'll see their defence certainly matters as well.

[Mac76]

What about the young Greek CB, I guess he just doesn't rate him right?

you mean Mavropanos. not sure maybe he wants to work him through slowly

i'd stress this was just a fan podcast and to save time they just talked about the players used on Sunday

i think Sokratis woudl be part fo Emery's plans though clearly not too far ahead as he's getting on still i think he's really solid and would still like to see him ahead of Mustafi

[Mac76]

He's going to have to make use of Ozil either way as he won't be able to get rid of him.

i actually thought Ozil wasn't too bad on Sunday, he was trying to find a way through, but my one criticism of Laca is that he doesn't make enough runs or at the very least lead the line a bit more, if he's going to be in the CF position - it doesn't make it any easier for Ozil to try to create something

[selassie]

I would be happy with...Mav, Holding, Sok +top CB and maybe another (Kos).

City aren't so far ahead of the rest because of their backline....it's all about their midfield and attack and collective play.

City’s backline has really improved this season! They have conceded 1 goal after playing Liverpool, us, Spuds & United. 3 of those games have been away.

Laporte & Stones both look the real deal this season TBH.

City are comfortably the best team in the league, I’d be shocked if they don’t retain the title.

[Marc Overmars]

I think City’s defensive record is as much to do with their attacking play, in that the opposition aren’t going to create much when they can’t even get the ball off them. They’re a very good team from back to front though, unquestionably.

We’ve played some nice stuff this season but it’s clear that we’re flawed and Emery will need time and at least another transfer window to fine tune his system. I think there are a fair few players who will be sold next summer if the opportunity is there.

[SMatthews]

Either way, with this current version of City, everyone is playing for 2nd at best. With the money they have, the manager they have and the fact their owners have UEFA in their pockets, it’s hard to see who will stop them. Every league is slowly turning into the SPL, bar Spain.

[Özim]

Either way, with this current version of City, everyone is playing for 2nd at best. With the money they have, the manager they have and the fact their owners have UEFA in their pockets, it’s hard to see who will stop them. Every league is slowly turning into the SPL, bar Spain.

Could have been different if Usmanov had successfully bought the club with all the money he has and his willingness to invest, unfortunately we got Kroenke who isn't really interested in spending any money and in relative terms isn't even that wealthy.

[SMatthews]

Maybe, maybe not. I’m sort of glad he didn’t. Man City are far smarter off the field than anyone else has been beforehand, which is an even bigger advantage. Rules don’t apply to them in any sense.

[Özim]

Maybe, maybe not. I’m sort of glad he didn’t. Man City are far smarter off the field than anyone else has been beforehand, which is an even bigger advantage. Rules don’t apply to them in any sense.

I'm not sure how smart they really are, they still haven't won the CL and Real won it 3 times in a row, this despite them spending a monumental amount, Chelsea did it, Man U won it, Liverpool won it but City haven't or indeed got anywhere near the final.

Yes they've won the league, but in reality with the money and squad they have it's not that hard, they've bought the right players of course but they can basically buy anyone they want so it's not that hard.

[Mac76]

I'm not sure how smart they really are, they still haven't won the CL and Real won it 3 times in a row, this despite them spending a monumental amount, Chelsea did it, Man U won it, Liverpool won it but City haven't or indeed got anywhere near the final.

Yes they've won the league, but in reality with the money and squad they have it's not that hard, they've bought the right players of course but they can basically buy anyone they want so it's not that hard.

yeah Pep needs to make the semis at the very least this year or it's a fail

[SMatthews]

I'm not sure how smart they really are, they still haven't won the CL and Real won it 3 times in a row, this despite them spending a monumental amount, Chelsea did it, Man U won it, Liverpool won it but City haven't or indeed got anywhere near the final.

Yes they've won the league, but in reality with the money and squad they have it's not that hard, they've bought the right players of course but they can basically buy anyone they want so it's not that hard.

Off the field, extremely smart. That’s what Chelsea didn’t and do not have. They have UEFA in their pocket. The rest will follow.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

True but saying that look how many they've conceded this season and you'll see their defence certainly matters as well.

That's about possession, technical superiority, midfield control and systematic fouling. Their defence comes down quite low in the list of factors imo.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

i actually thought Ozil wasn't too bad on Sunday, he was trying to find a way through, but my one criticism of Laca is that he doesn't make enough runs or at the very least lead the line a bit more, if he's going to be in the CF position - it doesn't make it any easier for Ozil to try to create something

I didn't think Ozil was bad neither actually and thought Emery taking him and Iwobi off was the wrong decision.....but I am in a minority.

I think Laca has lead the line well this season but he and Auba were a little bit statuesque in that game. It was not a good advert for the 2 up top campaign at all in the second half.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

There was a stat last season that was worked out that stated had City not had a goalkeeper the would have still come 4th.

I don't know how exactly it was worked out and whether it substituted an outfield player for the goalkeeper but however it was derived....the stat pretty much says it all about how superior they are.

The CB's are definitely the weakest, least significant or most interchangeable part of their team though. That's not to say it is weak in itself, but where they are really ahead is in midfield and attack.

[Özim]

That's about possession, technical superiority, midfield control and systematic fouling. Their defence comes down quite low in the list of factors imo.

Maybe, but if you look they've also spent huge fortunes on defenders and goalkeepers, they didn't do that for no reason.

[Özim]

There was a stat last season that was worked out that stated had City not had a goalkeeper the would have still come 4th.

I don't know how exactly it was worked out and whether it substituted an outfield player for the goalkeeper but however it was derived....the stat pretty much says it all about how superior they are.

The CB's are definitely the weakest, least significant or most interchangeable part of their team though. That's not to say it is weak in itself, but where they are really ahead is in midfield and attack.

I think stats like that are nonsense though to be fair as there's no way this can be proved, if they didn't have a keeper teams would play very differently against them and pepper their goal at every opportunity. They did have a keeper and he was a very good one at that and this in itself helped the defence and allowed the rest of the team to play safe in the knowledge that he would be there to save them if needed.

A great team is built from the back, yes they are very good going forward but defensively they're also very solid, they managed to blunt Liverpools attack which is probably the best in the PL.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Maybe, but if you look they've also spent huge fortunes on defenders and goalkeepers, they didn't do that for no reason.

Of course but my point is...their CB's aren't a class above above other top CB's in the league. Stones/Laporte are no better than Van Dijk, Alderweireld imo.

[Özim]

Of course but my point is...their CB's aren't a class above above other top CB's in the league. Stones/Laporte are no better than Van Dijk, Alderweireld imo.

Very true, but Van Dijk is probably the best CB in the PL and is top class, you don't have to have the very best, but you do need to have top quality CBs as they have.

[selassie]

This Guy is the real deal imo. A few more transfer windows and once he really shapes the team into his own and we will be going places, there I said it!

This guy has transformed a broken team of bottlers into a bunch of lions, I love him!