Match Reaction v Waterford (home).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Have some of that Deeney you gobshite.

Tony Gale must have been pissed, I have no idea what he was seeing in that last 20 minutes. Seems to think the Arsenal fans revere Mr. Cojones also.

Our bench is very productive coming off the bench these days which is good in a way but in another I wonder what we're instructed to do in the beginning.

Five wins in a row in the league though and now we're above Grapefruits FC. :scarf:

[SMatthews]

No complaints, another clean sheet, seven wins in a row and every chance to make it nine before the international break.

[Globalgunner]

Less Ramsey, more Iwobi please. Leno done okay too. Now to find a red hot poker to stab Ozil in the arse with before each match and we will be okay. How was Mustafi btw?

Why Waterford?. Am i missing something?

[dostoy]

I didn't see much of it but it looked like Iwobi improved things when he came on.

Good stuff, keep it up Arsenal.

I am SOOOOOOOOOOO glad they got rid of that idiot who was manager last season.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Less Ramsey, more Iwobi please. Leno done okay too. Now to find a red hot poker to stab Ozil in the arse with before each match and we will be okay. How was Mustafi btw?

Why Waterford?. Am i missing something?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45511942

[Globalgunner]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45511942

Aha! Leicester Square sounds better too.

[Master Splinter]

Iwobi :bow:.

Laca was a real nuisance and always busy, but needs to be more clinical. He seems to struggle with the easier finishes.

Xhaka finally had a fully convincing, assured and clean game. Hope he continues and improves, especially if he's always starting.

Holding seems to play well against the big ugly twat strikers and is so much more mature than Mustafi. He should be starting with Sokratis.

Ozil was slightly improved today. He was passing it around better and didn't constantly lose the ball, but was still mostly ineffective as an attacker along with the barely visible Ramsey.

Aubameyang on the left is fine if the team is in full flow. But against solid sides and while the team is still gelling, he's almost pointless. Especially when then shunted to the right and looking completely lost. Either find a way to get him playing closer to Lacazette or play Iwobi and Mkhitaryan/Welbeck on the wings.


Anthony Taylor with the expected one-sided Mike Dean tribute. Absolute turds.

Tony Gale MOTM.

[Marc Overmars]

5 wins in a row without being completley convincing, I’ll take that tbf.

You can only beat what’s in front of you but we’re building ourselves up nicely for the bigger tests and most importantly getting in the mix for the top 4.

[I am invisible]

I’ve almost forgotten what Holding is like as player! What are is strengths and weaknesses these days? Emery must see something in him if he’s kept him over Chambers and is starting him ahead of Mavs (although I’ve heard the Greek lad might be carrying an injury)?

[Mac76]

Agree with Splinter's summary above, i thought Ozil was better when Ramsey went off, we just can't play two guys in midfield who like to drift and Ozil's the one who should get the nod. And we've got to do something about getting Auba into the game more

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I always thought Holding was kind of unfairly forgotten about last season. He's usually been encouraging when partnered with a maturer competent partner and even when playing with Chambers. Yesterday like Sokratis did before him, he bailed out Mustafi a few times. He's very physical, very good in the air and composed on the ball when he's confident.

I thought Ozil was very good and is slowly building on his performances game by game. Xhaka was good defensively today although I caught him pulling somebody's shirt on a freekick which if spotted could have spoiled what had been a good performance. Not going to belly ache about it as the referee was completely oblivious but I do want us to defend properly and not just lazily pull shirts because it has long been accepted as a part of the game.

I though though Leno was really good too, I feel like he might be a bit punchy and should have stayed on his line on one occasion but his saves were superb.

I'd be tempted to swop Ramsey for Martial or Rashford though it would never happen.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Auba situation can't be improved. Emery won't change the formation and I don't think he will want Auba to play closer to Laca for fear of dis-balancing the formation which he is clearly very wedded to.

Ironically though he came off early doors, I actually though Ramsey was better than in the Everton game as well as others, so that shows just how periphery he's been this season.

[Gooner23]

Perhaps if you moved Ozil inside and played a harder working player on the right, like Iwobi or Welbeck, it might just free up Auba a bit.

[selassie]

Auba situation can't be improved. Emery won't change the formation and I don't think he will want Auba to play closer to Laca for fear of dis-balancing the formation which he is clearly very wedded to.

Ironically though he came off early doors, I actually though Ramsey was better than in the Everton game as well as others, so that shows just how periphery he's been this season.

The formation is fine. Emery just needs to pick the correct players for it.

Im happy with our form but unhappy with our performances, we were very lucky yesterday and for long stretches of the game Watford looked the better team.

If we keep grinding out these results fine, I just think we will come unstuck sooner or later.

[Power n Glory]

We're picking up 3 points and close to the top 4 despite playing quite poorly. I guess that gives me more hope when we eventually hit our stride and start playing to our full potential.

Aubameyang out wide isn't working but since we've had Ramsey and Ozil also playing outside of their usual positions, maybe if bench these two or at least get Ozil to play his natural position we may start to see better performances from Aubameyang. If you look at the average positioning of the players in the first half, Ramsey might as well have been playing as a striker and Ozil spent the majority of the half in the middle in the number 10 position. As a result, Aubameyang stayed wide and was playing deeper than Monreal who was overlapping. Once we free up middle from all that congestion we may see better performances for Aubameyang out wide.

Saying that, I don't see why Emery can't just stick Aubameyang and Lacazette up front. With the amount of games Ramsey has been getting starts for, it seems clear that he hasn't instructed Ramsey to drop deeper and get more touches on the ball and work his way onto the box from deep. If he likes how Ramsey presses, he can easily get that from Aubameyang or Lacazette along with the better quality play and finishing.

[WMUG]

Tony Gale :pal:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The formation is fine. Emery just needs to pick the correct players for it.

Im happy with our form but unhappy with our performances, we were very lucky yesterday and for long stretches of the game Watford looked the better team.

If we keep grinding out these results fine, I just think we will come unstuck sooner or later.

But why can't it be more than fine? Why can't it be one suited to the best players we have and the positions they are best in.

We have one of Europe's elite forwards and seriously not making the most of him. If we paid 60 million for a decent but a little mehish winger would we be so happy?

[Chippy]

The formation is fine. Emery just needs to pick the correct players for it.

Im happy with our form but unhappy with our performances, we were very lucky yesterday and for long stretches of the game Watford looked the better team.

If we keep grinding out these results fine, I just think we will come unstuck sooner or later.

We will surely come unstuck against one of the bigger teams.

Watford caused us many problems, the Wenger defensive issues are still plain to see.

In addition, we never start playing until the second half. Again, that may prove to be too late against the bigger teams.

Torreira and Guendouzi (bargain for £7m) have started well, however, in my opinion, we still haven’t got that defensive midfielder.

[I am invisible]

If we’re going to persist with 4231, then I think we’ve got to be looking at Iwobi, Mkhitaryan and Welbeck as the wide options, because no one else we have really fits.

Personally speaking, I think 3412 might be a good fit for our current options? The most effective wide play I’ve seen so far this season has come from the fullbacks, so I’d be in favour of freeing them up to commit to the attack with less worries by fielding an extra man at the back, so we’re not frequently left badly outnumbered when they get caught up the pitch.

It would also let’s us play Aubameyang and Lacazette as a genuine partnership through the middle, whic is a huge plus, with Özil and Mkhitaryan alternating in their preferred 10 role, and we may even be able to absorb Ramsey’s cavalier ways and Xhaka’s defensive averageness in CM, if the fullbacks are free to get up and down the pitch, providing extra numbers wherever they’re needed?

(Incidentally, I’m also wondering if this kind of freer role for the fullbacks might give us something to think about with AMN when he’s back? Pep has recently introduced the idea of wingbacks who can move seamlessly into CM, and that all sounds like something that young Ainsley, who has played competently as a CM, fullback and winger, could be very good at?)

My only issue with the above is I’m not sure where it leaves Iwobi, who has done more than most to force his way into the bosses thoughts this season? Would he be happy competing with Özil and Mkhi? Can he be converted to the 2nd CM, or maybe one of these modern wingback-CMs?

[Mac76]

If we’re going to persist with 4231, then I think we’ve got to be looking at Iwobi, Mkhitaryan and Welbeck as the wide options, because no one else we have really fits.

Personally speaking, I think 3412 might be a good fit for our current options? The most effective wide play I’ve seen so far this season has come from the fullbacks, so I’d be in favour of freeing them up to commit to the attack with less worries by fielding an extra man at the back, so we’re not frequently left badly outnumbered when they get caught up the pitch.

It would also let’s us play Aubameyang and Lacazette as a genuine partnership through the middle, whic is a huge plus, with Özil and Mkhitaryan alternating in their preferred 10 role, and we may even be able to absorb Ramsey’s cavalier ways and Xhaka’s defensive averageness in CM, if the fullbacks are free to get up and down the pitch, providing extra numbers wherever they’re needed?

(Incidentally, I’m also wondering if this kind of freer role for the fullbacks might give us something to think about with AMN when he’s back? Pep has recently introduced the idea of wingbacks who can move seamlessly into CM, and that all sounds like something that young Ainsley, who has played competently as a CM, fullback and winger, could be very good at?)

My only issue with the above is I’m not sure where it leaves Iwobi, who has done more than most to force his way into the bosses thoughts this season? Would he be happy competing with Özil and Mkhi? Can he be converted to the 2nd CM, or maybe one of these modern wingback-CMs?

i was thinking on similar lines although maybe a kind of 4222:


Leno

Bellerin Sokratis Holding Monreal

Torreira AMN

Ozil Iwobi

Laca Auba



i realise that means Ozil is potentially wide but with the FBs still coming up he can drift inside easily enough without Ramsey cluttering up the place

[I am invisible]

i was thinking on similar lines although maybe a kind of 4222:


Leno

Bellerin Sokratis Holding Monreal

Torreira AMN

Ozil Iwobi

Laca Auba



i realise that means Ozil is potentially wide but with the FBs still coming up he can drift inside easily enough without Ramsey cluttering up the place
I would imagine most of the width would still come from the FBs there, with Özil and Iwobi going left, right central, and swapping sides

I was thinking of something like this (*you’ll have to hit reply to see the shape, instead of the formattingless blob you get after posting)...

Leno

Sok Hold Mavs
Bell Torr Guen AMN
Özil
Laca Auba

My choice of players (and where I’ve put them) may not be for everyone, but I like the idea of those passing triangles / diamonds appearing up and down the pitch, depending on where the wingbacks advance to. That and not having my heart in my mouth if they get caught too high up the pitch with no chance of getting back!

[Power n Glory]

3-5-2 would be ideal. That gets all our strongest players involved in their preferred positions. A diamond could also work but it feels like it's not even worth discussing formations because I can't see Emery changing it. Before the season kicked off, I had high hopes about seeing something different from Emery but it really feels like we're getting more of the same type of approach.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I would imagine most of the width would still come from the FBs there, with Özil and Iwobi going left, right central, and swapping sides

I was thinking of something like this (*you’ll have to hit reply to see the shape, instead of the formattingless blob you get after posting)...

Leno

Sok Hold Mavs
Bell Torr Guen AMN
Özil
Laca Auba

My choice of players (and where I’ve put them) may not be for everyone, but I like the idea of those passing triangles / diamonds appearing up and down the pitch, depending on where the wingbacks advance to. That and not having my heart in my mouth if they get caught too high up the pitch with no chance of getting back!

Terrible ideas....you mug!

[I am invisible]

Terrible ideas....you mug!
Look, it’s easy to criticise - how about trying to come up with some ideas of your own, though?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

:d

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Can't wait till AMN is back. You reminded me of him.....shouldn't be too long I think.

I have tended to shut up about the formation though as I think like PnG Emery is rather wedded to 4231.

Can't argue much with our results though.

[I am invisible]

To be fair, he was quite open about his preference for 4241 when he joined. And it was how this same group were playing last year. AND, like you say, he’s been getting the results, so the issue hasn’t really been forced yet.

Still, we’re not actually very far into the season yet, and I fear we’re due a paddling from someone at some point, so let’s see what the response is after a couple of setbacks...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

He was though I was hoping he'd do a Wenger, change his mind on it and be more flexible. Last game was not good viewing for Auba or Ramsey.....as is becoming a trend.

[I am invisible]

It does make me wonder whether a part of Emery’s brief is to (at least attempt to) extract as much value as he can from the club’s big investments before writing anyone off? Which, unfortunately, might mean persevering with certain players past the point where they merit it, and shoehorning them into roles they don’t really fit?

It’ll be interesting to see how long that perseverance lasts, if / when results start to turn...

[Özim]

This is how i'm seening so far:

Positives:
- Started playing Lacazette and Aubameyang
- Results have been good
- Had shown a willingness to make changes at half time
- Has started mixing it up with players a bit
- Posession football is gone
- Less injuries so far
- Seems to be reaonsably adaptable as in he's recognised where players can't play and has eventually moved them to positions they are most at home and most effective

Negatives:
- Defence is still a shambles
- Seems to be persisting with players that and aren't good enough
- Playing Aubameyang too wide for him to be effective
- Still playing Ramsey despite him having no future with us
- We are being dominated by teams at times and have got a bit lucky that they haven't punished us


All in all it's not been a bad start, I guess the acid test will be Liverpool, but for me we still have far too many Wenger players involved, hopefully next season and fair few of these will have been phased out, as it stands because of the sub-standard personnel from the previous manager I just don't think we're really able to go toe to toe with the better teams.

[Power n Glory]

It does make me wonder whether a part of Emery’s brief is to (at least attempt to) extract as much value as he can from the club’s big investments before writing anyone off? Which, unfortunately, might mean persevering with certain players past the point where they merit it, and shoehorning them into roles they don’t really fit?

It’ll be interesting to see how long that perseverance lasts, if / when results start to turn...

We should be trying to assess all positions and make use of all the best parts in the team, I agree with that but I don’t think that’s happening. Three of our top performers aren’t playing in their natural position. That’s a concern because Emery is sticking with it despite all three not performing well and I now also see him doing the same thing Wenger would where he’d allow players to drift into the position they want to play or have them interchange during parts of the game. I can’t stand that. I’d prefer we play a formation that gets the best out of everyone.

The Ramsey contract situation is telling. Emery came in with a plan for Ramsey and emphasized his importance to the team. Where Ramsey was part of the original plan. Despite news of his contract offer being withdrawn, he still picked him to play that position and I doubt it came as a surprise to him that the club were going to withdraw the contract offer. So why still play him? I don’t think Emery had anything to do with Ramsey’s contract. He still rates Ramsey. Initial reports on the deal for Ramsey said the deal had stalled because of the Ivan Gazidis situation. Now that Ivan is leaving and Raul Sanllehi is taking over, I think it’s Raul’s decision to withdraw the deal. We’ll soon see if he continues to play Ramsey.

[Marc Overmars]

Cech out for a month.

Big opportunity for Leno now.

[Özim]

Cech out for a month.

Big opportunity for Leno now.

That's forced his hand, good to see as we need to know if Leno is up to it, Cech at 36 hasn't got many years left at the top so we need to be looking for someone good enough to become number 1.

[Letters]

All in all it's not been a bad start, I guess the acid test will be Liverpool, but for me we still have far too many Wenger players involved, hopefully next season and fair few of these will have been phased out, as it stands because of the sub-standard personnel from the previous manager I just don't think we're really able to go toe to toe with the better teams.
You lose points for not putting "Wenger isn't our manager" as a Positive :sulk: ;)

Overall agree with your assessment but I don't think Liverpool is the test right now. I don't think we're serious title contenders right now and I wouldn't expect Emery to make us into ones this quickly, even allowing for City going mental last year we were miles away from even 2nd. That said, we are at home and I think we should expect us to go toe to toe with them and give them a game. With our defence I fear for us.

[Marc Overmars]

We’re very unlikely to be challenging for the title but you at least want to be confident that we can take points off the top teams. So far it’s fair to say no one is filled with confidence on our ability to do that.

Emery has to make us hard for the top teams to beat, otherwise we’re never going to achieve anything with him.

[Letters]

Correct, but I think it's a bit early to be expecting that. I'd say there's a bit of a gap between us and teams like Liverpool and City, we need to close that but Rome wasn't built in a day.
I do want to go into these games expecting something, the Liverpool game will be an interesting test of where we are but unless it's a complete thrashing I won't be over-reacting.

[Özim]

You lose points for not putting "Wenger isn't our manager" as a Positive :sulk: ;)

Overall agree with your assessment but I don't think Liverpool is the test right now. I don't think we're serious title contenders right now and I wouldn't expect Emery to make us into ones this quickly, even allowing for City going mental last year we were miles away from even 2nd. That said, we are at home and I think we should expect us to go toe to toe with them and give them a game. With our defence I fear for us.

My bad sorry, how could I forget!!

It's important in a sense it will show us where we are, I agree we're not serious contenders and that it's early days, but we should be able to put up a decent showing, some smaller teams give these bigger teams a game so I don't see why we can't with the likes of Lacazette, Aubameyang and Ozil especially at home.

But yes our defence is a worry, to frustrate top teams you need a decent defence and sadly I don't think our defence is much good.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

On one hand I think Liverpool will tell us little. We know we aren't title contenders and we know we are much worse than Liverpool.

On the other hand it will tell us how much we've progressed since the first two games of the season. I'm kind of just looking forward to a proper contest and an enjoyable match.

The defence is slowly improving though and I do think we should stop seeing Holding as a kid. He's Torreira's age at 23 (so perhaps slightly older) and is not kid anymore. Frankly he should be taking Mustafi's position in the team and is more than old enough to be included if he is playing well enough....and he is.

[fakeyank]

On one hand I think Liverpool will tell us little. We know we aren't title contenders and we know we are much worse than Liverpool.

On the other hand it will tell us how much we've progressed since the first two games of the season. I'm kind of just looking forward to a proper contest and an enjoyable match.

The defence is slowly improving though and I do think we should stop seeing Holding as a kid. He's Torreira's age at 23 (so perhaps slightly older) and is not kid anymore. Frankly he should be taking Mustafi's position in the team and is more than old enough to be included if he is playing well enough....and he is.

:gp:

I am looking forward to the Liverpool game with the hopes that our defense gets a lot better by then. I would like to see Guendozi and Torreira play so that they can shield the back 4 in that match. Like Letters said, I think it'll be a good barometer to see our progress since the first 2 games of the season.

[Letters]

It will be, but let's not throw our toys out of the pram (I'm looking at you, FY) if there hasn't been much.
Early doors yet.
At least for now we've been winning the games we should be winning, last year we weren't even doing that, not away from home anyway.

[Power n Glory]

With a much weaker team and even less time to prepare because he took over at Liverpool when the season had already kicked off, Klopp showed quickly that he was able to beat Chelsea and City within his first couple of months. Some dodgy performances here and there but he showed he was capable of beating all of the big teams over the season. And he didn't have a summer transfer window to prepare.

Are we not setting the bar high enough? So far, I haven't seen a convincing performance from the team but I'd be far more encouraged if we could take it to one of the big teams and take all 3 points. A key concern of mine before Emery joined was his head to head record against managers the well known title winning managers. It's not great. With a better team, my hope is that he will show he's able to compete.

[SMatthews]

It will be, but let's not throw our toys out of the pram (I'm looking at you, FY) if there hasn't been much.
Early doors yet.
At least for now we've been winning the games we should be winning, last year we weren't even doing that, not away from home anyway.

Exactly, he’s got a mammoth task of trying to remove 20 plus years of one man’s culture at the club. It’s going go take some time to turn things round. The only comparable job to this is Moyes at Man Utd and we’ve all seen how that’s panned out. There probably haven’t been many managers in the history of the game who have had to tackle this sort of task.

I’m not bothered about the top teams this season at all. If we beat up on the smaller teams that’s the foundation for improvement because we haven’t even been doing that regularly for a few years now. Our style I could care less about for now too. As long as we win. Which we’re doing so there’s no problems for now. It’s impossible to give any sort of assessment about Emery or what his thinking is after 10 games. I never saw us finishing top five this season and until he has another summer window this still isn’t his team.

[Globalgunner]

We could crack top 5 but that would mostly be down to the clusterfuck happening over at ManU. Long may it continue. Somethings are bleeding obvious. Ramsey and Ozil together do not work. Hopefully Ramsey has helped us sort out that conundrum by removing himself from the equation permanently. Likewise the keeper situation has found natural resolution. Not wanting to wish an injury on Mustafi as Id prefer we sell him in January, but he too has to go. We need a winger and if Welbeck is sold, a back-up striker.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Hmm perhaps Liverpool are a yardstick of where we aim to be in three years time but I would expect more than what they have had.

Top 4 is plausible this season based on what I've seen so far.

[fakeyank]

It will be, but let's not throw our toys out of the pram (I'm looking at you, FY) if there hasn't been much.
Early doors yet.
At least for now we've been winning the games we should be winning, last year we weren't even doing that, not away from home anyway.

I am expecting us to lose. What I want from this team (and for any past Arsenal team) is that they put in their best foot forward. If we lose this game 6-0 or something, then I'd be worried. I just want us to be competitive.. thats all.