Top 4 Trophy Run-in.

[Bumble]

No there's a new rule, if a team wins the CL and is in the top 4 only 4 teams go in, likewise if a team win the Europa and are in the top 4, only 4 teams will go into next seasons CL.

So if we finish 4th and Chelsea win the Europa then 5 teams in the CL like MO said.

I think we will finish 4th, 3 wins definitely will be enough although that would mean winning of 2 of our 3 remaining away games, so no guarantee on that happening. I think 7 points probably be enough, as none of us, Chelsea or United are particularly consistent.

As long as Mustafi doesn't play we have a chance.

[Özim]

So if we finish 4th and Chelsea win the Europa then 5 teams in the CL like MO said.

I think we will finish 4th, 3 wins definitely will be enough although that would mean winning of 2 of our 3 remaining away games, so no guarantee on that happening. I think 7 points probably be enough, as none of us, Chelsea or United are particularly consistent.

As long as Mustafi doesn't play we have a chance.

No if an English club wins the CL or the Europa and is also in the top 4, only 4 teams will be in the CL, that's the new rule. If we finish 4th and Chelsea win the Europa or Spurs or Liverpool are in the top 4 and we finish 4th and they win the CL we won't be in the CL.

Which is why winning the Europa should be the priority as that's the only way we can guarantee qualifying in the CL if we're 4th.

[Globalgunner]

Like Ozim said the only way to guarantee CL next season is to either win the EL or come 3rd. Even then if we come 3rd and Chelsea win the EL and Spuds win CL. We will drop to the EL. Only 4 get to play CL from what I heard.

[Marc Overmars]

If we finish 4th and Spurs and Chelsea finish outside the top 4 but win the CL and EL, then yes we would miss out in that scenario because 6 teams from the same league cannot enter the CL. That is the only way 4th could miss out.

5 teams can definitely still enter the CL, providing there is only 1 European competition winner that didn't finish in the top 4.

[Globalgunner]

Hope yr right. Either way, Our best bet is to win the EL

[Marc Overmars]

We should be going for both at this stage given we have a realistic chance of achieving both goals.

If we're cocking up these final league games I don't think it would exactly put us in a good frame of mind for the Valenica tie.

[SMatthews]

If we finish 4th and Spurs and Chelsea finish outside the top 4 but win the CL and EL, then yes we would miss out in that scenario because 6 teams from the same league cannot enter the CL. That is the only way 4th could miss out.

5 teams can definitely still enter the CL, providing there is only 1 European competition winner that didn't finish in the top 4.

That’s it - and as you say, it makes sense to go for both at this point, especially when it’s in our own hands.

We were in a decent run of form before we went away and messed up Rennes. Then we came back and beat Utd. Hard to determine what affects the players state of mind in teams below the top two.

[Özim]

If we finish 4th and Spurs and Chelsea finish outside the top 4 but win the CL and EL, then yes we would miss out in that scenario because 6 teams from the same league cannot enter the CL. That is the only way 4th could miss out.

5 teams can definitely still enter the CL, providing there is only 1 European competition winner that didn't finish in the top 4.

Rules are outlined here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47806720



(https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47806720)
What happens if an English team win the Champions League?

Tottenham and Liverpool have both reached the Champions League semi-finals.

If one of those sides become European champions and finish in the top four of the Premier League, then only four English teams go into next season's Champions League. The 'extra' group stage spot would go to the Austrian champions, who otherwise need to go through qualifying as Uefa's 11th-ranked league.

However, if an English team win the Champions League and finish outside the Premier League's top four - a possibility for Spurs - then five English teams will go into next season's group stage.

There is no Champions League spot for the beaten finalists. Liverpool would not have qualified this year had they not finished in the 2017-18 top four.
Uefa changed the rules for qualification last year - starting with this season's tournaments.

In 2012 Tottenham finished fourth but missed out because Chelsea won the Champions League - but Spurs would have qualified under the current rules.
Until 2005, Champions League winners did not qualify automatically - a rule which was changed when Liverpool won the tournament but did not finish in the top four.

What happens if an English team win the Europa League?

Arsenal and Chelsea are both in the Europa League semi-finals and are among the favourites to lift the trophy in Baku. If either of them win the tournament, they will qualify for next season's Champions League group stages.

If the winners finish outside the top four in the Premier League, it will mean five English teams will be in the Champions League.

However if they do finish in the top four, then England will not get an extra spot. The team who finish third in the fifth-ranked league - France - will go into the Champions League group stages instead of the qualifiers.

There is no Champions League spot for the beaten finalists.


What happens if English teams win the Champions League AND Europa League?

There can be a maximum of five teams from one country in the Champions League. So that causes a bit of a mess if English teams win both European competitions - and neither finishes in the top four.

Chelsea and Arsenal are into the Europa League semi-finals, with Tottenham and Liverpool in the last four of the Champions League.

If English teams were to win both tournaments, the Premier League's fourth-placed team would not qualify for the Champions League and instead would drop into the Europa League group stages.

There would only be two Europa League spots - for the team who finish fourth in the Premier League and the FA Cup winners (or the seventh-placed Premier League team if City win the cup).

All the English teams left in Europe are guaranteed a top-six Premier League finish. The situation would be different if an English team won both competitions and finished outside the European places entirely.

If a season ever occurred when English teams won the Champions League and Europa League - and neither of them qualified for Europe through the league - there would be NINE Premier League teams in Europe (five in the Champions League and four in the Europa League).
If one of them qualified for Europe via the league and the other did not, then there would be five teams in the Champions League and three in the Europa League.

[Marc Overmars]

That confirms what I’m saying doesn’t it? 5 teams can still enter if only 1 of the European champions has missed out on the top 4.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If we finish 4th and Spurs and Chelsea finish outside the top 4 but win the CL and EL, then yes we would miss out in that scenario because 6 teams from the same league cannot enter the CL. That is the only way 4th could miss out.

5 teams can definitely still enter the CL, providing there is only 1 European competition winner that didn't finish in the top 4.

Yeah this was pretty much right. 5 teams can enter.

The worst case scenario is Spuds win the EL (and don't finish top 4), Chelski wins the EL ( and don't finish top 4) and we finish 4th- we would then have to deal with Europa like what happened to the spuds some years back.

So only 3rd or winning the EL would 100% guarrantee CL action. BTW it seems like finishing 3rd in that horror scenario might still mean we'll be in the qualification stages of the CL or am I wrong about that?

[Bumble]

Its not really much of a run in but a stumble in.

Think Spuds have 3rd sewn up. Luckily for us United v Chelsea at the weekend. So we still have an opportunity to blow our opportunity of finishing 4th.

However, there is so much work to do on the side even finishing 4th I don't think will resolve it. Getting CL football will just line the pockets of the players and the owner and all it would mean is once we play a decent side we get knocked out.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Its not really much of a run in but a stumble in.

Think Spuds have 3rd sewn up. Luckily for us United v Chelsea at the weekend. So we still have an opportunity to blow our opportunity of finishing 4th.

However, there is so much work to do on the side even finishing 4th I don't think will resolve it. Getting CL football will just line the pockets of the players and the owner and all it would mean is once we play a decent side we get knocked out.

So, back to how it used to be then.


Great :rolleyes:

[Letters]

So we still have an opportunity to blow our opportunity of finishing 4th.

:lol:

We might yet, as you say, stumble into 4th.
But this lot against some of the teams who qualify for the CL? Lollerskates.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Summed up well on Redcafe I feel:


Four shit teams trying to see who can feck it up best.

[Letters]

The race for the top 4. A dramatic reconstruction


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPx11f27jdY

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm not sure we're all that competent.

[Marc Overmars]

Can’t even be arsed getting myself up for this race anymore. :lol:

Spurs defeat only makes me even more convinced now we won’t get the job done against Leicester.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Yeah, everybody else should just put 3rd out of their minds. Feels like as spursy as Spurs are, they're just toying with us.

[SMatthews]

https://youtu.be/BvCcTHNqVcU

Always rated Shearer tbf.

[Mac76]

:clap: :lol:

[selassie]

I personally think we have blown top 4 in PL now. I can't see us winning both games, even though I think Chelsea will drop points at Leicester. I think we will either draw or lose at Burnley.

I am not entirely confident about Europa either, neither the Semis or the Final if we reach it. We are in real poor form right now and if we do reach the Final I am not confident we would beat Chelsea given our current form.

[SMatthews]

Big result last night that should clear away the bad form and put us on a good run for the last 3/4 games.

Chavs have two tricky games with Watford at home and Leicester away.

We’ll do Brighton and I think it could be in our hands either before, or during, the game against Burnley as I don’t think Chelsea will win both games. Burnley should be on the beach now after staying up - we rolled them over in the second to last game at home last season when Wenger said his goodbyes.

The recent defeats have really damaged our GD. Could even come down to goals scored.

Utd :lol:

[Letters]

It's frankly ridiculous that we could have a run like we have in the league and still be in a shout at top 4.

[SMatthews]

4th will either have 74 or 72 points - which is pretty much what is needed most seasons.

[Marc Overmars]

Not convinced we will beat Burnley but you never know.

First let’s win this weekend then at least the final day could be interesting. Brighton will probably be stubborn and hard to break down as well, they know a point might be enough to keep them up.

Still incredibly pissed off that we threw it away when it was in our hands but let’s hope there’s one last twist to come.

[Mac76]

got to say that at this point i'd focus on the EL - e.g. i would rest players like Laca, Kos etc on Sunday and keep them for the Valencia away game

i'd also swap Leno and Cech around at this point so Leno's playing the EL games - or even just play Leno for all the remaining games

i agree BHA won;t be as easy as we'd like and we'll be lucky to get even a draw against Bumley, so there's no point in risking our better players on those games IMO

[SMatthews]

Brighton could be saved if Palace do Cardiff the night before. Even a draw will effectively send Cardiff down as they have Utd away on the last day. Then again, that should be 3 points for Warnock.

[Mac76]

i'm very much hoping Borenock and baadiff go back where they belong - not a PL club or a PL manager

[Bumble]

It's frankly ridiculous that we could have a run like we have in the league and still be in a shout at top 4.

the other clubs say the same thing. I am sure I heard that of the last 11 games (Chavs v United counts as 1 game) featuring us, chavs, spuds and united... there has only been one win between all of us. We have lost last 3, Chelsea drawn 2 lost 1, Spurs 1 win 2 lost, United lost 2 drew 1.

[Letters]

the other clubs say the same thing. I am sure I heard that of the last 11 games (Chavs v United counts as 1 game) featuring us, chavs, spuds and united... there has only been one win between all of us. We have lost last 3, Chelsea drawn 2 lost 1, Spurs 1 win 2 lost, United lost 2 drew 1.

Yes, we're all pretty much stumbling to the finish line.

[LDG]

Yes, we're all pretty much stumbling to the finish line.

For “stumbling for”, see “running away from”

The league is more competitive than it has been for some time, and the injection of money into top flight football, with no infinite pool of mega talent means that the gap is closing again. Soon you won’t be able to “buy” success, as the amount of money that continues to pour in will dilute everything.

The fact is, only two teams have assembled a top class “team” in the league, the second tier clubs in the top six have bungled their creation of a team but have “some” higher calibre players. The rest of the league are all either assembling teams of less quality and more cohesion, or....not.

The gap is closing as the rare megastars get drawn over the globe, and the mediocre is scrapped over.

Arsenal need a settled squad, and a manager who know what he wants from his players. Those players need to be better than average, but the manager needs to know what to do with them.

[Bumble]

For “stumbling for”, see “running away from”

The league is more competitive than it has been for some time, and the injection of money into top flight football, with no infinite pool of mega talent means that the gap is closing again. Soon you won’t be able to “buy” success, as the amount of money that continues to pour in will dilute everything.

The fact is, only two teams have assembled a top class “team” in the league, the second tier clubs in the top six have bungled their creation of a team but have “some” higher calibre players. The rest of the league are all either assembling teams of less quality and more cohesion, or....not.

The gap is closing as the rare megastars get drawn over the globe, and the mediocre is scrapped over.

Arsenal need a settled squad, and a manager who know what he wants from his players. Those players need to be better than average, but the manager needs to know what to do with them.

Not sure gap is closing as you could have 6 teams with over 70 points this season. We won the league with 78 points in 97/98. you don't need superstars but just to be well organised and a few goalscorers. Well no matter what we do in reality cant see how we can compete with City in next 5 years. Although we should be looking at Liverpool as a model.

[SMatthews]

Liverpool had money from Suarez and Coutinho to use, along with their own funds. Unless we are planing on selling Lacazette or Bellerin, then it’s not a model we can follow. We have to assume we’ll only be able to spend similarly to what we have in recent years, which means top four and cups are our best option.

There’s usually only two teams competing for the title - despite Sky’s usual bluster about a 6 horse race. Until 15/16 the gap between 6 and the rest was only a few points, ever since then it’s grown. This year could be the biggest gap yet.

[Marc Overmars]

City have raised the bar to an unprecedented level, if they stay at this level they will dominating for years to come. Liverpool have had a remarkable season and that's looking like it still won't be enough.

All the rest of us can do is hope and pray that City take their eye off the ball.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Blind leading the blind. :lol:

[SMatthews]

Chavs could be 3rd tomorrow, and us a point behind a 4th placed Spuds.

Chavs then go to Leicester on the last day. Would come down to us away at Burnley (:sick:) and Spuds with a tricky home tie against Everton - after being booted out of the CL.

Time to start cooking up the lasagne.

[Chippy]

Chavs could be 3rd tomorrow, and us a point behind a 4th placed Spuds.

Chavs then go to Leicester on the last day. Would come down to us away at Burnley (:sick:) and Spuds with a tricky home tie against Everton - after being booted out of the CL.

Time to start cooking up the lasagne.

How great would it be if we pipped the spuds to fourth and they lose to Ajax. I would fucking go to work in an Arsenal mankini !!!:satan:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Liverpool had money from Suarez and Coutinho to use, along with their own funds. Unless we are planing on selling Lacazette or Bellerin, then it’s not a model we can follow. We have to assume we’ll only be able to spend similarly to what we have in recent years, which means top four and cups are our best option.

There’s usually only two teams competing for the title - despite Sky’s usual bluster about a 6 horse race. Until 15/16 the gap between 6 and the rest was only a few points, ever since then it’s grown. This year could be the biggest gap yet.

I agree, but if you think about it, the only player they've signed completely out of our price range is VVD and I'd argue he was worth the money. Alisson too, but I don't actually think Leno is looking a million miles from him.

I don't think we need to adopt their model as it were. As it is as simple as using the resources available to you to the best of your ability which is just plain common sense. They only made those big sales because it came looking for them not because they went looking for it..... and Coutinho was well over priced.

When we spend in excess of 30 million we need to be sure. That means we can't have any more Mustafi's. That is simply too costly a mistake at this level and considering our circumstances.

[Bumble]

When we spend in excess of 30 million we need to be sure. That means we can't have any more Mustafi's. That is simply too costly a mistake at this level and considering our circumstances.

who ever made that decision should be personally liable and sued for trade description of purchasing a defender.

[Bumble]

Chavs could be 3rd tomorrow, and us a point behind a 4th placed Spuds.

Chavs then go to Leicester on the last day. Would come down to us away at Burnley (:sick:) and Spuds with a tricky home tie against Everton - after being booted out of the CL.

Time to start cooking up the lasagne.

bit complacent that we would actually beat Brighton.

[SMatthews]

I don’t think we’ll ever win a game again.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

This thread. :rose:

Goodbye Sweet Prince.

[Letters]

I don’t think we’ll ever win a game again.

:lol:

It does feel like that sometimes.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This thread. :rose:

Goodbye Sweet Prince.

The most painful part was the capitulation was at home, in front of all the fans, even Man U had the decency to do it away.

[Letters]

How the fuck have we been Spursier than Spurs? They literally invented being Spursy.

[Marc Overmars]

I thought we'd miss out at the start of the season so I can't say they didn't live up to expectation.

Just galling with how we threw it away.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I said at the start of the season we would finish 5th. I was enjoying feeling like I was an idiot being overly negative the last few months when it started to look like we could even finish 3rd.....and now look. On our way to 5th/6th.

[Chippy]

I said at the start of the season we would finish 5th. I was enjoying feeling like I was an idiot being overly negative the last few months when it started to look like we could even finish 3rd.....and now look. On our way to 5th/6th.

Yep! And Europa League qualification in July! tossers!!

[selassie]

Well the end of the season was the “Classic” Arsenal collapse. We folded like a pack of cards after it was offered to us on a plate!

We could have finished 3rd!

Whilst Emery has done a good enough job this “end of season collapse” can only be saved with a Europa League win. I’m not confident, we look a real mess at the moment.

[Bumble]

Well the end of the season was the “Classic” Arsenal collapse. We folded like a pack of cards after it was offered to us on a plate!

We could have finished 3rd!

Whilst Emery has done a good enough job this “end of season collapse” can only be saved with a Europa League win. I’m not confident, we look a real mess at the moment.

but the players do look like they care and try in the Europa league. but if we don't win the Europa league I don't think Emery will see out next season.

[Chippy]

Stop panicking. They never win shit and it’s not going to start now.
Fuck!! I beg to differ :ilt:

[rodders]

Recent results confirm Arsenal in also rans in terms of players manager and owners. I do not see them rising again in our lifetimes!!

[Letters]

Calm down :rolleyes:

[Özim]

Until we get a new owner who actually cares about being successful we're not going to get anywhere to be honest (and I can't see him selling up in the near future - who's going to offer him that kind of money for a club like us now). We need some serious investment right now with the lack of quality in the squad and the number of players we need to replace, with barely a saleable asset we can't even raise money that way.

Mediocrity running through this club from top to bottom to be honest, Emery is OK but he's not top class, but of course we were never going to go for a top class manager because firstly we don't want to spend the money attracting them and secondly they would want funds to rebuild.

I can't see us challenging for major honours for the foreseeable future, Liverpool and Leicester and to a lesser extent Spurs have shown us it's not all about money, it's about having the right manager, who brings in the right players, something we always seem to ignore. We've been sliding down the table, at one point we were challenging, then we were a top 4 side (and sadly happy with that), now we've been outside the top 4 for a few years and are no longer a top 4 side.

Ever since we moved to the new stadium we've only been going one way, the fans have not reaped any of the benefits, those have all gone to the owners and shareholders and it's not going to change anytime soon.

Sad to see for a once really great club, Wenger/Kroenke and co have turned us from that to a business with only one real focus, finances.