Match Reaction v Leicester (away).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Disgrace really.

Putting it all on the Europa League is a stupid fucking idea.

[Letters]

Wenger In! :ninja:

[AFC Leveller]

Maybe it wasn’t all down to Wenger.

Such a shambles. We have conceded 9 in our last 3 games to fairly average teams (below is in the table at least).

[Marc Overmars]

Bottled it good and proper.

Since we beat Newcastle to go 3rd, we have lost 4 out of 5 games and even the game we won was a bit of a fluke.

This was not a difficult top 4 race, even if we were slightly competent away from home we would have it wrapped up by now. Many people were concerned that having 5 remaining away games would cost us and it looks like those fears were completely right.

Shit squad with only a handful of salvageable players.

Europa League or bust now.

[SMatthews]

Maybe it wasn’t all down to Wenger.

Such a shambles. We have conceded 9 in our last 3 games to fairly average teams (below is in the table at least).

Down to the players, but ultimately Wenger put most of this squad together. Until the personnel dramatically change theres a limit to how far we can progress.

[dostoy]

Beyond pathetic

No balls

Mentally weak

Fairies

Useless

Absolute disgrace

All the above and LOTS more.

[Letters]

Maybe it wasn’t all down to Wenger.
Letters Woz Right :bow:

It wasn’t although he had become “a problem” and needed to go.
But we have other problems and I can’t see us achieving anything of note while Kronke is around.

[Marc Overmars]

This is pretty much a continuation of the level Wenger had us fall to. Any improvements we think might made this season are marginal at best. It's the same shit, different toilet.

The squad is crap and needs at least 100m put into it before we can even think about getting to where we want to be. Emery needs to carry the can for this collapse though and if we don't win the Europa League he's rightly going to have a lot stick coming his way.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I dont think we can continually and entirely praise Emery when it goes right but criticise Wenger when it goes wrong. I said last summer, if we don't get top 4 then the transfer strategy has been a failure. That is looking more and more likely.....and we have a crapload more business to do in the summer. This mess will take 3 windows to sort out at a minimum.

Stupid from AMN...but Maddison well an truly got him sent off with the theatrics. He's a decent player but I don't want to see us sign the prick.

[Letters]

The squad is crap and needs at least 100m put into it before we can even think about getting to where we want to be. Emery needs to carry the can for this collapse though and if we don't win the Europa League he's rightly going to have a lot stick coming his way.
Top 2 aside we are as good as anyone else.
Mentality is a real issue. That’s what I thought would improve post-Wenger.
That and the tactics, Wenger was never good at that. Some signs that the second of those has changed a bit but the end result isn’t much different.
Wenger wasn’t as bad as the hyperbole on here suggested. He had become a problem but I see Kronke as a bigger one, till he sods off I’m not sure it matters that much who our manager is.

Gary called this years ago through his knowledge of Kronke’s sports franchises in the US.

[hobson's choice]

This is pretty much a continuation of the level Wenger had us fall to. Any improvements we think might made this season are marginal at best. It's the same shit, different toilet.

The squad is crap and needs at least 100m put into it before we can even think about getting to where we want to be. Emery needs to carry the can for this collapse though and if we don't win the Europa League he's rightly going to have a lot stick coming his way.


Sorry to break to you, this season is Emery's career in a nutshell.

He does not improve teams

[Globalgunner]

Season well and truly over already. Something is fundamentally wrong with this team.Even the way we ply is very unproductive. How can you ship 3 goals in 3 successive games. Who trains these fools?. Turned off to watch the F1 at ht. Best decision I made this weekend.

[Mac76]

I can’t believe how quickly the Wenger apologists are trying to rewrite history – it was his autonomous setup and rubbish backroom staff, lack of tactics and discipline that put the club into this state in the first place and let’s not forget it.

Three weeks ago we’d have said Emery had done well enough but these last couple of weeks have been awful.

Emery’s made three main mistakes which could have been avoided IMO:

1. Not spotting who was good and bad quickly enough – if he had he’d have shipped Mustafi and one or two others out in January and replaced them with loan plyers – def two CBs at least – we’d have been much better off now
2. He was too cautious around Christmas – his defensive sides and tactics against sides we should be winning against definitely cost us points
3. His rotation recently has been a big fail and the Palace game was the prime example – he’s supposed to be obsessed with watching football yet didn’t seem to know Palace were one of them most dangerous teams away in the PL, and to put in players like Jenkinson against Zaha is suicide

He’s clearly trusting in his record in the EL, and he’d better pull it off as this is getting embarrassing

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Who are the Wenger apologists?

[Mac76]

well, ok, maybe i was exagerrating but Letters and AFC were sort of moving in that direction.

the fact is Emery has a lot to do at this club but as i say above he has got some things wrong, although overall i don't see it as problems he can't fix with time.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I can’t believe how quickly the Wenger apologists are trying to rewrite history – it was his autonomous setup and rubbish backroom staff, lack of tactics and discipline that put the club into this state in the first place and let’s not forget it.

Three weeks ago we’d have said Emery had done well enough but these last couple of weeks have been awful.

Emery’s made three main mistakes which could have been avoided IMO:

1. Not spotting who was good and bad quickly enough – if he had he’d have shipped Mustafi and one or two others out in January and replaced them with loan plyers – def two CBs at least – we’d have been much better off now
2. He’d was too cautious around Christmas – his defensive sides and tactics against sides we should be wining against definite cost us points
3. His rotation recently has been a big fail and the Palace game was the prime example – he’s supposed to be obsessed with watching football yet didn’t seem to know Palace were one of them most dangerous teams away in the PL, and to put in players like Jenkinson against Zaha is suicide

He’s clearly trusting in his record in the EL, and he’d better pull it off as this is getting embarrassing

The honest truth is that we are all kind of correct, including Wengerites.

Arsenal has big serious PROBLEMS, on and off the pitch and in fact I'd say we are close to making decisions/indecisions that could see us drop out of the top 6 all together and join the likes of the Evertons and so for a considerable length of time.

But anyway focusing on Emery, IMHO even if we end up winning the EL and all our other games in the league, I would give him a below average score for the season. Has he delivered more than Wenger would have this season? Maybe. Is he what we need in this club to get us back to competing for the title? I'm almost certain the answer to that is NO.

You see just like AW, he hasn't solved any of our deep underlying issues, in fact theirs an argument to say he made some decisions that will make the team slightly worse in the not too distant future (i.e. revoking Ramsey's offer a good example).

But really the most important failing I have noticed about him is just like AW he does not know much about defending nor does he seem to recognise it is the one thing that any club that has ambitions of winning this league must be able to get 90% right. That IMO is the main reason we will never win the title with a manager with this kind of mindset no matter how much money is given to him as they would spend it stupidly ( like AW did chasing his dreams of tippy-tappy heaven).

So in short I think we should have our eye out for a better defensive manager and pray serious football people take control of this club before we slip into the abyss.

[Özim]

Always said this squad is rubbish, full of average players with no hear and desire, Emery got peanuts last summer, consequently this is what you get, the previous manager built this terrible team, players like Xhaka, Mustafi, Mhikitaryan, Iwobi, Jenkinson the list goes on, you can't train players as poor as these.

Yes Emery has to take some blame, but he was never an elite coach and never got enough money to change this club. Only hope is the EL, I wasn't expecting much from this season so it's no great surprise.

[SMatthews]

...in fact I'd say we are close to making decisions/indecisions that could see us drop out of the top 6 all together and join the likes of the Evertons and so for a considerable length of time.

That will never happen

[rodders]

Until we get owners who care about Arsenal rather than money , we will continue to be also rans .

[fakeyank]

I am all for the hate on Kroenke, but there definitely has to be some blame on the manager and coaches. I dont see how Arsenal football club can go away to Leicester city and play like we were playing Barcelona. We were not even close today.. it was a shocking performance. With the money we have and the coach we have, I certainly expect better. I can understand being behind the A-game when we play Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Utd but for us to not even have hope before games against Wolves and Leicester city speaks volumes as to how far we have fallen.

I dont see how Emery is going to turn this around.. his masterstroke January signing of Suarez gives me very little confidence. It is close to the Wenger signings of Bischoff and Kallstrom. I still wont go "Emery Out" till he gets another season but I am not holding my breath.

[Marc Overmars]

I’m inclined to agree. Knowing that we will struggle to get anything away from home against average teams is a sobering thought. We don’t play on the front foot anymore and I’m not exactly sure how comfortable in possession we are now, as we always tend to cede possession to the opponent and run the risk of being overrun. It’s not a sustainable way of playing.

[Mac76]

If Emery doesn't get rid of Mustafi in the summer, it will make it very difficult for me to trust in him tbh

If we'd won that Palace game we'd be fourth with a home game against Brighton to come - Mustafi's mistakes cost us that game

And yes, it was also the overly-rotated team, but you have to.hope Emery learns from it and rectifies it by being more positive for the Brighton game and also Burnley - Chelsea could still slip up

Thursday is a huge test - that team really needs to turn itself around - the players have responsibility there too

[Letters]

Always said this squad is rubbish.
Weird you never say it after good results though, but every bad run up you pop...
This squad is neither "rubbish" nor is it full or world beaters. Aside from the top 2 we're about the same as the other challengers for the top 4.

[Letters]

I can’t believe how quickly the Wenger apologists are trying to rewrite history – it was his autonomous setup and rubbish backroom staff, lack of tactics and discipline that put the club into this state in the first place and let’s not forget it.

Three weeks ago we’d have said Emery had done well enough but these last couple of weeks have been awful.

Yes, three weeks ago we were feeling different. We may feel different again if we get a good result against Valencia - if we win the Europa League then of course that will change our perception of how this season has gone. Which is silly in a way, there are such fine lines in Cup competitions, but it does make a difference.
I was roundly mocked for saying that our manager should be judged at the end of the season not after a good run, or a bad one, mid-season. All seasons are roller-coasters with high points and low, clearly the season can only be properly be judged at the end. I do take the point though that with a long term manager there may be repeating patterns and repeated failures which make the end result of a season wearyingly predictable.

The more rabid anti-Wenger brigade were acting like Wenger was the sole problem at the club and was so incompetent, such a dribbling imbecile, that anyone would do better. I can't believe how quickly they flip-flip between
(after a bad run) "See! Wenger was rubbish! I told you the squad he assembled was terrible"
(after a good run) "See! Wenger was rubbish! I told you anyone would do better"

Well, we've got anyone now and it's not been that brilliant. There have been some promising signs but in the long unbeaten run at the start of the season we were riding our luck at times. It's was promising to get the final points tally from last year with 7 games to go but then we lost 4 of the next 5! If there has been progress then it's been incremental at best. The Europa League could yet save our season, I guess.

I've been pretty consistent in saying that while Wenger had become "a problem", he wasn't the only problem at Arsenal and removing him is no silver bullet. I cannot see us competing for the title while Kronke is in charge. None of that makes me a Wenger apologist. It was just always more complicated than Wenger being a bumbling incompetent

I didn't expect Emery to be working miracles this season but I did expect him to get the more basic things right that Wenger was getting wrong. I expected our tactics to improve and be more responsive to different teams and situations in games. I expected the mentality to be better. There have been some tentative signs of those things but it isn't adding up to much improvement overall, if any.

[Bumble]

Weird you never say it after good results though, but every bad run up you pop...
This squad is neither "rubbish" nor is it full or world beaters. Aside from the top 2 we're about the same as the other challengers for the top 4.

that is it - we aren't massively off the other sides because everyone is inconsistent. Spuds are probably 3rd best side in the league, yet we beat them and should have beaten them. No point us saying if we had won the last 3 games we would have it sewn up. As the other teams are dropping points as well and could equally say the same. No one is on a good run of form.

Incredibly if we win both are last two games I still think its 50/50 that we sneak 4th. Whether we win the last two is a bit more uncertain.

The disappointing thing about this season is that the coaching doesn't seem to have changed. We thought improved coaching, higher intensity would should better performances, but Arseblog made a good point when he said that we seem to be much better in the top 6 games where we are underdogs but against the other teams there is a noticeable dip in performance.

I am sure we will up our performance for the Europa league and all will be well.

[SMatthews]

that is it - we aren't massively off the other sides because everyone is inconsistent. Spuds are probably 3rd best side in the league, yet we beat them and should have beaten them. No point us saying if we had won the last 3 games we would have it sewn up. As the other teams are dropping points as well and could equally say the same. No one is on a good run of form.

Incredibly if we win both are last two games I still think its 50/50 that we sneak 4th. Whether we win the last two is a bit more uncertain.

The disappointing thing about this season is that the coaching doesn't seem to have changed. We thought improved coaching, higher intensity would should better performances, but Arseblog made a good point when he said that we seem to be much better in the top 6 games where we are underdogs but against the other teams there is a noticeable dip in performance.

I am sure we will up our performance for the Europa league and all will be well.

I’m not sure that is true about the lesser teams. We haven’t beaten a top six side away (off top of my head) but have won similar points at home to last season, but more away from home.

The only way to tell if this manager can get us into - and sustain - a place in the top four and beyond is by giving him money to spend on the squad. It’s the only way. Until then all we have is presumptions. At the moment he’s got us back into contention for top four after last season’s debacle - and while this summer won’t be enough to tell us for sure, it will tell us by mid-next season if we are moving in the right direction or not.

[KSE Comedy Club]

In Xhaka's post match interview he said that they don't know why they are so different away from home and that you can't play like that in front of the home fans as they are right in front of you watching.

Well, sorry mate, but your job is to play every game like it's a home game and not try and coast for 90 mins when you're on a trip away.

If that is indicative of the team's mentality then it's no wonder our home form is so appalling!

[Letters]

In Xhaka's post match interview he said that they don't know why they are so different away from home and that you can't play like that in front of the home fans as they are right in front of you watching.

Well, sorry mate, but your job is to play every game like it's a home game and not try and coast for 90 mins when you're on a trip away.

If that is indicative of the team's mentality then it's no wonder our home form is so appalling!

This has been the biggest puzzle for me over the last 2 seasons. Da fuq is that about? At home our record is close to title winning - even in these bonkers seasons where City and now Liverpool are basically winning almost every game.
Away from home it's mid-table stuff. It's pretty pathetic, I haven't checked but we must be the team with the biggest points difference between home and away records.

[Özim]

Weird you never say it after good results though, but every bad run up you pop...
This squad is neither "rubbish" nor is it full or world beaters. Aside from the top 2 we're about the same as the other challengers for the top 4.

I've been consistent with saying it was rubbish, your pal Wenger built a terrible squad and part of the issue for Emery is he's had to work with these players who just aren't good enough as he got peanuts last summer.

I'm not going to absolve him of blame completely though, he's made some poor errors as well, poor team selections, odd signings like Suarez and he's been poor in the last 5-6 games, we were lucky not to lose to Watford, they gave us a bit of a pasting with 10 men, this run of results has been shambolc.

He needs to win the EL, but we'll have to beat Chelsea if we get through the semis and you never know how those games will go, the thing that's bugged me a lot with him though (and as I said before he's not an elite coach) is him sticking with certain players repeatedly which just aren't good enough, that's too similar to Wenger for my liking.

[Letters]

Yes, you have been consistently wrong. Have a sweetie.

[Marc Overmars]

It’s the style of play that’s bugging me the most. I’m patient enough to realise that he needs a few more of his own signings first, particularly in midfield and wide areas for him to have a fair chance at moulding the team in his image.

However for the last 20 odd years we’ve always been a ball playing team but now we seem to have having a lot less possession (even against weaker teams) and if that’s the direction we are going in then I don’t believe he is going to be successful regardless of who he brings in.

[SMatthews]

This has been the biggest puzzle for me over the last 2 seasons. Da fuq is that about? At home our record is close to title winning - even in these bonkers seasons where City and now Liverpool are basically winning almost every game.
Away from home it's mid-table stuff. It's pretty pathetic, I haven't checked but we must be the team with the biggest points difference between home and away records.

Away from home is where the title is won. I remember we went unbeaten away for the entire season on a couple of occasions when we won the league back in the 00s. It’s not that surprising we are poor away from home really when you look at the squad we have. Utd and Chelsea only have 7 more points than us in away games which isn’t a massive gulf.

[Letters]

Away from home is where the title is won. I remember we went unbeaten away for the entire season on a couple of occasions when we won the league back in the 00s. It’s not that surprising we are poor away from home really when you look at the squad we have. Utd and Chelsea only have 7 more points than us in away games which isn’t a massive gulf.

I don't understand what you mean by "It’s not that surprising we are poor away from home really when you look at the squad we have".
We have the same squad when we're at home where our record is better than anyone bar the top 2.
Away we are mid-table (literally, we're 10th in the away only league table. Why the huge discrepancy? We don't have a crappy squad for away games and a good one for home ones.

[SMatthews]

I don't understand what you mean by "It’s not that surprising we are poor away from home really when you look at the squad we have".
We have the same squad when we're at home where our record is better than anyone bar the top 2.
Away we are mid-table (literally, we're 10th in the away only league table. Why the huge discrepancy? We don't have a crappy squad for away games and a good one for home ones.

Because our weaknesses have to exist somewhere, otherwise we’d be challenging for the title which isn’t realistic for obvious reasons. That’s why I said the title is won away from home as it shows the real mental resilience of a group of players. I’ve heard it said by many people in a variety of sports that ability has less to do with winning than your mentality. Fergie’s final title winning season is a great example of that. The vast majority of players are of a similar level of talent when you get to this point of the game, what separates them is their mentality. The stronger it is (or the better it can be managed) the more likely you are to express it on a regular basis. That’s why team sports are so difficult because there’s so many things out of your control, let alone the things you can manage. So the more you can get into your players heads as a manager, the more you can negate all those uncontrollable ‘x’ factors.

[SMatthews]

It’s the style of play that’s bugging me the most. I’m patient enough to realise that he needs a few more of his own signings first, particularly in midfield and wide areas for him to have a fair chance at moulding the team in his image.

However for the last 20 odd years we’ve always been a ball playing team but now we seem to have having a lot less possession (even against weaker teams) and if that’s the direction we are going in then I don’t believe he is going to be successful regardless of who he brings in.

Just checked and we’re 4/5th highest in terms of average ball possession. As a big team I don’t think we could do anything else other than have a lot of the ball. Mostly because a common tactic of most smaller teams is to sit back and work on the break.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't understand what you mean by "It’s not that surprising we are poor away from home really when you look at the squad we have".
We have the same squad when we're at home where our record is better than anyone bar the top 2.
Away we are mid-table (literally, we're 10th in the away only league table. Why the huge discrepancy? We don't have a crappy squad for away games and a good one for home ones.

Think it just boils down to how players deal with different environments and hostilities, the best players thrive under that pressure while others become more timid. We have won just 10 away games out of 37 across the past 2 seasons, there's clearly a problem with how we're preparing for these games and a lack of mentality in coping with things that don't always go in our favour. Bad days at the office can happen to everyone but we seem to be consistently shown up regardless of the opponents strength. Even the away games we have won this season have been touch and go with the exception of the Fulham 1-5.

It's just poor and until we snap out of this we're never going to find ourselves in the top 4 on a regular basis again.

Many suspected it when we briefly went above Spurs into 3rd - the remaining away games would ensure that we wouldn't be able to see the job through.

[Globalgunner]

The mentality is weak but so is the trust level. At home you feel a little more confident even when you are a bit deficient technically. But these players are not technically blessed (Xhaka, Iwobi, AMN), many are on a sliding scale of ability Kos, Monreal. Some are just dumb (Mustafi). When you are technically deficient you are hesitant because you are afraid of making mistakes. Xhaka is slow and will lunge because he has no awareness, He gets a first yellow maybe in the first 20 mins if he tries too hard and the 2nd will follow soon after. It is also a matter of trust. these players dont trust each other. You look at each other and there are not many match winners on show, but the team is riddled with match losers. Basically you will feel a sense of panic anytime Xhaka, or Mustafi is on the ball. Our teams used to be on the front foot because they new that the player behind them wouldnt miss the ball, woudnt lose a tackle. You cant run forward in anticipation of a pass over the defence when you are pretty sure the dumbkoff in possession will most likely be dispossessed of flunk a simple pass. They train like friends im sure instead of practising like enemies. I would ship out 3/4 of them. Only a warrior like Simeone can fix the malaise in this club. We should be going all out to get him

[Mac76]

The mentality is weak but so is the trust level. At home you feel a little more confident even when you are a bit deficient technically. But these players are not technically blessed (Xhaka, Iwobi, AMN), many are on a sliding scale of ability Kos, Monreal. Some are just dumb (Mustafi). When you are technically deficient you are hesitant because you are afraid of making mistakes. Xhaka is slow and will lunge because he has no awareness, He gets a first yellow maybe in the first 20 mins if he tries too hard and the 2nd will follow soon after. It is also a matter of trust. these players dont trust each other. You look at each other and there are not many match winners on show, but the team is riddled with match losers. Basically you will feel a sense of panic anytime Xhaka, or Mustafi is on the ball. Our teams used to be on the front foot because they new that the player behind them wouldnt miss the ball, woudnt lose a tackle. You cant run forward in anticipation of a pass over the defence when you are pretty sure the dumbkoff in possession will most likely be dispossessed of flunk a simple pass. They train like friends im sure instead of practising like enemies. I would ship out 3/4 of them. Only a warrior like Simeone can fix the malaise in this club. We should be going all out to get him

yes spot on - that's why i get so angry at people like Mustafi still beng around the side - surely the other players must hate his guts after all the fuckups? i bet Leno does anyway, as he's the first one Mustafi points to when he fucks up

every time you see Mustafi pass to Xhaka or vice versa you feel everyone holding their breath and thinking 'please don't fuck up'

without fail both Xhaka and Mustafi play at least one suicide ball and make one suicide tackle per match and at this level you don't get away with it

[Maestro]

Only a warrior like Simeone can fix the malaise in this club. We should be going all out to get him

Finally something I can 100% agree with and I'm sure a few other people on here agree too. Given our problems, he was the only manager I wanted to see come in and the only one I think can fix the problem

[SMatthews]

Finally something I can 100% agree with and I'm sure a few other people on here agree too. Given our problems, he was the only manager I wanted to see come in and the only one I think can fix the problem

He extended his contract earlier this year until 2022. Given his history with Atletico, he won’t be going anywhere fast.

In a way, he reminds me a bit of his best player, Griezmann. I think Simeone is the type of manager happy in his comfort zone and would stay there forever if he could. There’s no doubt he would’ve had a lot of opportunities to leave but has refused every single one of them.

[Marc Overmars]

I know most wouldn’t accept Simeone’s style of play but a personality like him is exactly what this club needs to move away from this culture of mediocrity and give us a new identity.

Emery is a likeable guy but I do have a lot of reservations from what I’ve seen this season.

[SMatthews]

I know most wouldn’t accept Simeone’s style of play but a personality like him is exactly what this club needs to move away from this culture of mediocrity and give us a new identity.

Emery is a likeable guy but I do have a lot of reservations from what I’ve seen this season.

You mentioned possession earlier - Atletico’s is shockingly low for their status in Spain.

His style is pretty outdated and given what they’ve been able to spend in recent years it really should’ve evolved by now. They are no longer the plucky under dogs. They say most managers have a ten year window when they’re at the peak of their powers (which could be applied to many walks of life) - with many of the Atleti old guard nearing the end of the road if will be interesting to see what he has left. Plus, were he to ever leave I think he’d probably go back to Inter before anyone else.

[Marc Overmars]

Oh they are definitely a little too negative for my taste and I would like to see Simeone in a different environment as well, but there's obviously a ceiling in Spain unless you're Barca or Real Madrid. The same applies to clubs here really with City so dominant currently.

I just respect what he has achieved with them. 2 CL finals as well, minutes away from winning one and then losing on penalties in the other. Fine margins.

I feel like this club has lacked an identity for years now and a warrior like Simeone (or anyone who can inspire some fight) is what the team needs most. We've always had talented players but over time the team has had everything else you need to be successful stripped away. Lack of leadership is something we've bemoaned for years.

[fakeyank]

Oh they are definitely a little too negative for my taste and I would like to see Simeone in a different environment as well, but there's obviously a ceiling in Spain unless you're Barca or Real Madrid. The same applies to clubs here really with City so dominant currently.

I just respect what he has achieved with them. 2 CL finals as well, minutes away from winning one and then losing on penalties in the other. Fine margins.

I feel like this club has lacked an identity for years now and a warrior like Simeone (or anyone who can inspire some fight) is what the team needs most. We've always had talented players but over time the team has had everything else you need to be successful stripped away. Lack of leadership is something we've bemoaned for years.

The part in bold is very true. Since the likes of Vieira and Lehmann left, I cant think of one players I'd want as a leader. The closest we had to a leader IMO was Flamini in the 07/08 season. We have timid ass wipes since then..

[SMatthews]

Oh they are definitely a little too negative for my taste and I would like to see Simeone in a different environment as well, but there's obviously a ceiling in Spain unless you're Barca or Real Madrid. The same applies to clubs here really with City so dominant currently.

I just respect what he has achieved with them. 2 CL finals as well, minutes away from winning one and then losing on penalties in the other. Fine margins.

I feel like this club has lacked an identity for years now and a warrior like Simeone (or anyone who can inspire some fight) is what the team needs most. We've always had talented players but over time the team has had everything else you need to be successful stripped away. Lack of leadership is something we've bemoaned for years.

I agree, he has done wonders with Atleti during his time there. I think leadership comes from the top down rather than the other way round, so I’m not sure we’ll find a clear identity with anyone under the current ownership.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I'm glad Simeone will never darken our doors.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Oh they are definitely a little too negative for my taste and I would like to see Simeone in a different environment as well, but there's obviously a ceiling in Spain unless you're Barca or Real Madrid. The same applies to clubs here really with City so dominant currently.

I just respect what he has achieved with them. 2 CL finals as well, minutes away from winning one and then losing on penalties in the other. Fine margins.

I feel like this club has lacked an identity for years now and a warrior like Simeone (or anyone who can inspire some fight) is what the team needs most. We've always had talented players but over time the team has had everything else you need to be successful stripped away. Lack of leadership is something we've bemoaned for years.

You know, I think that under the Wenger and Fergie years a lot of us learned to look down on teams that played defensive and got overtly physical. It's so ironic because that's what our identity was pre Wenger and even in his early years of success in the late 90's.

In general things got worse for defensive minded enthusiasts with the rise of la liga, the Galacticos, later Barca's tippy tappy and the reoccurring failure in Europe of Italian teams. It seemed like the only fashionable thing was for big teams to attack and attack more, but if that failed hold the ball while really doing nothing with it.

I think it was only till Mourinho replicated his successful formula with Inter, that again people started appreciating defensive football. And obviously Simeone has done more than anyone to show what can be achieved when you prioritise that part of the game.

I always thought that after AW we should get a more defensively sound coach. Emery's performance so far and what Liverpool has been able to achieve by really just improving their defence (with arguably one major signing) has just reinforced my view that getting the defence right is the basic building block to sustained competitiveness for any serious team.

Besides the likes of Simeone, I think we should also have our eye on emerging coaches like Vieira who's doing a pretty solid job building Nice from the back and making his team hard to beat. They might sit 7th but have the 3rd best defence (goals conceeded) and the joint best defence by a clear margin when it comes to away games.

If we are looking for an identity, which I think you are 100% right that we need to rediscover , could an ex captain and a strong character like Vieira be the answer?

I think deep down every football fan wants their team to atack attack and play a lot like yesteryears Brazil; though they haven't won the WC since 02, and that was with Scolari playing really defensive football even with all their superstars at that time.

[Globalgunner]

The worst aspect of most modern coaches is that they carry the same coterie of assistants around with them wherever they go. Wenger was a salient case in point but Im guessing Emery is the same, using the same assistants that couldnt win away games in Spain and failed spectacularly at PSG. If he is who he is described as, a very analytical coach poring over hours of tape. Then he and his deputies must be staring without seeing. Even our bunch of klutzes can be trained to get 3 draws against Wolves, Palace and Everton. Im sure even Neil Warnock could do that with our players. What Bould is doing in the current setup is beyond bewildering. If he has no input why doesnt he resign?. If he has input and we are still crap, why doesnt he resign?

[GP]

It's always been a bit weird to me when people want to blame Bould. He's an assistant. One of a few. He does as he's told.

[Globalgunner]

It's always been a bit weird to me when people want to blame Bould. He's an assistant. One of a few. He does as he's told.

Thats the definition of a servant, not an assistant.

[SMatthews]

It's always been a bit weird to me when people want to blame Bould. He's an assistant. One of a few. He does as he's told.

A good assistant should push back a little and challenge their boss if they aren’t on the same page. Which isn’t to say Bould didn’t. Mostly, criticising them is just an easy go-to as no fan has a clue what goes on in the training ground - most of our ‘analysis’ is half-baked and based on assumptions and biases.

[Mac76]

Thats the definition of a servant, not an assistant.

i agree, Bould seems to just sit there being paid handsomely and having no discernably positive effect whatsoever - i suspect his still being there is a symptom of Emery not knowing - or even caring - enough about defence, and or perhaps anotehr sign of Emery being a somewhat subservient figure, as per the embarrassing statement he had to make around Christmas about our not being able to sign anyone in January. in other words he might not think he has much value but the club want to keep Bould anyway?

[GP]

Thats the definition of a servant, not an assistant.

No it isn't. He's the manager's assistant. He assists the manager.

[Marc Overmars]

I’m not sure assistants really have much of a say unless they’re the managers right hand man. Wenger had Boro Primorac and Emery has that bloke who’s always going nuts in training sessions and on the touchline, Carcedo is it?

Bould has been involved for 7 years now and our defence is as bad as it’s ever been. At 56 he clearly doesn’t harbour any ambitions of being a manager himself either.

He was probably only kept on for familiarity to ease the transition after Wenger. I’m not sure he’s ever been much more than a yes man who does as he’s told.

[Letters]

You know, I think that under the Wenger and Fergie years a lot of us learned to look down on teams that played defensive and got overtly physical. It's so ironic because that's what our identity was pre Wenger and even in his early years of success in the late 90's.
I absolutely wouldn't want to go back to 1-0 to the Arsenal and route one punt it up to Smith/Wright/whoever football.
But it's not a choice, you can be an attacking side and still be competent at the back. Liverpool have tightened up at the back but they are still scoring a shitload of goals.
The continued incompetence at the back is so obviously and so consistently our problem, it's incredible that hasn't been addressed. :(

[Bumble]

I absolutely wouldn't want to go back to 1-0 to the Arsenal and route one punt it up to Smith/Wright/whoever football.
But it's not a choice, you can be an attacking side and still be competent at the back. Liverpool have tightened up at the back but they are still scoring a shitload of goals.
The continued incompetence at the back is so obviously and so consistently our problem, it's incredible that hasn't been addressed. :(
We aren't that attacking either, we need a strong backline because sometimes 1-0 has to be enough. You win the league with a tight defence and goals from multiple areas of the team. We have 2 goal scorers and not much else. Our 3rd highest scorer has 6 goals this year of which one is leaving, and the other 2 we wouldn't be fussed if they left (Ozil, Mukhi). Then Welbeck is on 5. He hasn't played since November.

[Letters]

I keep forgetting Welbeck even still plays for us :lol: :(
Ramsey is such a big loss, we've really cocked that one up :(

[SMatthews]

We aren't that attacking either, we need a strong backline because sometimes 1-0 has to be enough. You win the league with a tight defence and goals from multiple areas of the team. We have 2 goal scorers and not much else. Our 3rd highest scorer has 6 goals this year of which one is leaving, and the other 2 we wouldn't be fussed if they left (Ozil, Mukhi). Then Welbeck is on 5. He hasn't played since November.

It’s the same story across the other teams pushing for top four. In general, we aren’t scoring less. A slightly worrying stat is we are taking less shots at goal, but within that we’ve become far more efficient in taking our chances based on goals scored vs shots taken.

[SMatthews]

I keep forgetting Welbeck even still plays for us :lol: :(
Ramsey is such a big loss, we've really cocked that one up :(

I think this injury is the perfect reminder of why his transfer isn’t that much of a loss.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Also in the game, we played a 442 which many seem desperate for us to play. It obviously worked horribly despite featuring some of our best players.

If we have to play it, I think it has to be a diamond given our personnel.

Definitely need another goal scorer in the team.....which is partly why I'd focus all our resources this summer almost entirely on a wide player with cutting edge and a centre half.

[Letters]

It’s the same story across the other teams pushing for top four. In general, we aren’t scoring less. A slightly worrying stat is we are taking less shots at goal, but within that we’ve become far more efficient in taking our chances based on goals scored vs shots taken.

Weirdly, I noticed that Utd have conceded even more than us :lol:

[fakeyank]

We aren't that attacking either, we need a strong backline because sometimes 1-0 has to be enough. You win the league with a tight defence and goals from multiple areas of the team. We have 2 goal scorers and not much else. Our 3rd highest scorer has 6 goals this year of which one is leaving, and the other 2 we wouldn't be fussed if they left (Ozil, Mukhi). Then Welbeck is on 5. He hasn't played since November.

This.

We have barely played good attacking football on a consistent basis since the 07/08 season. We have been labeled as an attacking team because of how we played more than a decade ago.. I find it tedious to watch our boring sideways passing football. We seemed to have found some sort of magic offensively earlier in the season but its gone back to shit backwards and sideways passes since then.

[Letters]

There were flashes of brilliant play this year. The goals of Leicester were amazing, that's how we used to play.
But agree that sort of play has been rare.
Recently we've been back to that "we could play till midnight and not score" style of play. No real threat up front.

[Globalgunner]

This was our most shambolic and embarrassing display of the 3 lamentable losses in a row. Absolutely no pride at all. The away supporters must have felt like being garroted as they left the stadium. Bet the Turnips in the team didnt feel so bad.

[Letters]

I meant Leicester at home. Second half we were brilliant that evening.

[Marc Overmars]

We aren't that attacking either, we need a strong backline because sometimes 1-0 has to be enough. You win the league with a tight defence and goals from multiple areas of the team. We have 2 goal scorers and not much else. Our 3rd highest scorer has 6 goals this year of which one is leaving, and the other 2 we wouldn't be fussed if they left (Ozil, Mukhi). Then Welbeck is on 5. He hasn't played since November.

Agree with this. We barely get anything from our midfield, too many wishy-washy types with no defined role or strengths.

Iwobi for example is the archetypal Arsenal player of the past decade.

[Globalgunner]

Agree with this. We barely get anything from our midfield, too many wishy-washy types with no defined role or strengths.

Iwobi for example is the archetypal Arsenal player of the past decade.

Absolute nothing player. If he had lashed in that first opportunity at 0-0. We might have had a different game. Instead a fumble and his usual hang dog look afterwards. From Pires to Iwobi.....oh how we have fallen.

[KSE Comedy Club]

This has been the biggest puzzle for me over the last 2 seasons. Da fuq is that about? At home our record is close to title winning - even in these bonkers seasons where City and now Liverpool are basically winning almost every game.
Away from home it's mid-table stuff. It's pretty pathetic, I haven't checked but we must be the team with the biggest points difference between home and away records.

It's an awful mentality that the team have.

There is zero consistency and they are up and down like a yoyo.

Baffling tbh :shrug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Absolute nothing player. If he had lashed in that first opportunity at 0-0. We might have had a different game. Instead a fumble and his usual hang dog look afterwards. From Pires to Iwobi.....oh how we have fallen.

I agree, Iwobi is massively overrated imo.

Overplays the ball time and time again, doesn't pass when it's obvious that he should, dribbles the ball when he doesn't need to and out of his own possession at times, can't shoot for toffee (always weak easy to save stuff), etc....

He is the new Walcott - without the goals

[Letters]

Is he overrated?! Everyone on here seems to hate him :lol:

[dazthegooner]

I don't think he's that bad just lacking on confidence needs to work in his finishing big time.

[Letters]

I don't think he's that bad but I agree with the above about him being a "nothing" player. He's not someone I can get that excited about, it's not like when he's on the ball you expect something might happen like some of players back in the day.

[Marc Overmars]

Never a good sign when an attacking players mind constantly turns to mush in the final third.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Is he overrated?! Everyone on here seems to hate him :lol:

Well... yes it would certainly seem that way, I was being polite! :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

He reminds me of Gervinho, but a shit version of him :lol:

[SMatthews]

Nothing to do with this match, but apparently Ornstein has it on good authority that Ramsey won’t come back from this injury and he has played his last game for the club.

Time to move on.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Nothing to do with this match, but apparently Ornstein has it on good authority that Ramsey won’t come back from this injury and he has played his last game for the club.

Time to move on.

It was time to move on the minute he signed for Juve tbh.

[Bumble]

Is he overrated?! Everyone on here seems to hate him :lol:

haha

[Bumble]

He reminds me of Gervinho, but a shit version of him :lol:

Iwobi is the sort of player who wouldn't stand out at Palace or West Ham.

[Mac76]

Whatever you think of Iwobi's ability he's one of the very few players that injects energy into the side - which doesn't mean he's the right level for us long term, but in this squad right now, and without Ramsay to gee things up, he's an important player to us

[Chippy]

Whatever you think of Iwobi's ability he's one of the very few players that injects energy into the side - which doesn't mean he's the right level for us long term, but in this squad right now, and without Ramsay to gee things up, he's an important player to us

Too right! He is an important player right now because we have no real choice :doh:

PS
Mac76, your sign off about Sp*rs might be a jinx, please remove it :oldboy:

[Marc Overmars]

Whatever you think of Iwobi's ability he's one of the very few players that injects energy into the side - which doesn't mean he's the right level for us long term, but in this squad right now, and without Ramsay to gee things up, he's an important player to us

That's pretty much why he's the target of a lot of criticism. Everyone can see he has a lot of natural ability but for whatever reason he has no composure or guile to make a difference. Incredibly frustrating.

[Letters]

Nothing to do with this match, but apparently Ornstein has it on good authority that Ramsey won’t come back from this injury and he has played his last game for the club.

Time to move on.

Confirmed by Arsenal.
Bollox.

[Marc Overmars]

A very apt end to his Arsenal career. :rose:

[dazthegooner]

Never stayed fit long enough for us to really see what he could've been, Wilshire was the same and he's hardly set the world on fire since he left.

[SMatthews]

Never stayed fit long enough for us to really see what he could've been, Wilshire was the same and he's hardly set the world on fire since he left.

Think that’s the thing that frustrates me the most about him. Scored some important goals but injury and lack of guidance under Wenger meant he never reached his peak form consistently. He helped a lot this season and seemed to have finally figured out how to play as a CM without being a liability. But once again his injury problems reared their head.

[Mac76]

Too right! He is an important player right now because we have no real choice :doh:

PS
Mac76, your sign off about Sp*rs might be a jinx, please remove it :oldboy:

Wierd, i was thinking that myself today...

I'll maybe do that...

[Chippy]

Wierd, i was thinking that myself today...

I'll maybe do that...
:console::clap:

[selassie]

TBH, quite a few of the Leicester team could start for us, I wasn't totally surprised they gave us a beating.

I think the likes of Chilwell, Maguire & Tielemans would be nailed on starters for us.

Schmeichel, Vardy and Maddison would be pushing for a starting place too.

This is where we are at right now, our team / squad isn't that much better if at all...than a lot of the chasing pack like Leicester, Wolves, Everton etc.

[SMatthews]

That must mean Emery is doing a fantastic job as we're way ahead of that lot.