Farce Reaction: Arsenal 1-2 (2-2) Olympiakos

[Niall_Quinn]

At least it's not as low as our lowest point. It's down there, but we've done worse.

[Marc Overmars]

Absolute garbage, can’t even navigate our way through this shit cup anymore.

Cannot wait for this season to be done and dusted.

Poor old Mikel probably underestimated the job on his hands. Bet he wishes he could go back to being Pep’s ball boy now.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Have we? We're not even good enough to be knocked out in the last 16 of a knock out tie now.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Arteta's sub were appalling really though.

[Mac76]

All we can say positively is that Auba is scoring again and we just need to hope that continues, but i do really hope Arteta throws on the kids on Monday and gives people a rest

We need to throw the FAC and focus on trying to get up the table as much as we can

[McNamara That Ghost...]

All we can say positively is that Auba is scoring again and we just need to hope that continues, but i do really hope Arteta throws on the kids on Monday and gives people a rest

We need to throw the FAC and focus on trying to get up the table as much as we can

Why should they get a rest after that shit? They took 75 minutes off to begin with.

[Niall_Quinn]

Have we? We're not even good enough to be knocked out in the last 16 of a knock out tie now.

Didn't we lose to Greta Thunburg, or some crappy bunch of farmers last year? And forgetting to turn up for the final.

Auba being interviewed now. Looks like he's messaging his agent at the same time.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Lost but didn't go out to them.

[Master Splinter]

Fullly deserved for Olympiacos.

It's on Arteta for continuing to persist with senior players who have shown over a long period and under different coaches that they're not good enough.

Lacazette, Pepe, Ozil and Bellerin were woeful today. You can give Bellerin the benefit of the doubt because of his injury problems, but for all of them we have really promising young players who have not only performed better this season but offer different qualities. The only reason we're seeing Saka is because Kolasinac hasn't been fit.

Arteta is another manager who rewards bad performances on the basis of experience. Martinelli instantly changed the game and apart from Auba, all our positives this season have come in games involving mostly the younger squad members. It's not a coincidence. You might get Ozil interested for a couple of games, but he'll eventually revert to his actual level. The Lacazette fetish is also beyond a joke now.

We're not going to do anything of note this season, so what sense is there in persisting with duds and players who won't be here next season. It's repeating the same things over and over again but it's maddening that another coach who you'd expect to be a bit braver falling into the same traps of mediocrity.

[Özim]

Absolute garbage, can’t even navigate our way through this shit cup anymore.

Cannot wait for this season to be done and dusted.

Poor old Mikel probably underestimated the job on his hands. Bet he wishes he could go back to being Pep’s ball boy now.

I wish he'd stayed at City putting out the cones and we'd got someone decent like Allegri or Simeone.

The guy makes mistakes left right and center and reminds me of Wenger with his favouritism, tactically he's been poor, doesn't understand how to make subs and his lineups are generally poor, the defence has improved I'll give him that, but at the expense of the attack.

[Marc Overmars]

All we can say positively is that Auba is scoring again and we just need to hope that continues, but i do really hope Arteta throws on the kids on Monday and gives people a rest

We need to throw the FAC and focus on trying to get up the table as much as we can

I very much doubt The FA Cup is going to affect our league form.

[Niall_Quinn]

All we can say positively is that Auba is scoring again and we just need to hope that continues, but i do really hope Arteta throws on the kids on Monday and gives people a rest

We need to throw the FAC and focus on trying to get up the table as much as we can

Why? So we can get into the Europa Cup? Or if everyone collapses, the CL? Do we REALLY want to get into the CL? Wouldn't that be an embarrassment too far?

What we need to do is develop a whole new culture at the club (not a gay one either), replace half the team and develop a totally different style of play. Massive job to do here. That old goat devastated the club from top to bottom - the fucker didn't miss a nook or a cranny.

[Mac76]

Why? So we can get into the Europa Cup? Or if everyone collapses, the CL? Do we REALLY want to get into the CL? Wouldn't that be an embarrassment too far?



It's just that we need some hope to offer our better players, or we could lose some of them (i accept auba is now gone for sure anyway) plus not be able to shift losers like xhaka and mustafi on

[Marc Overmars]

Should be noted that the Greeks are CL dropouts.

We’d be eaten alive in the CL now. Those last 16 exits under Wenger will seem like the halcyon days.

We’re such a poor team, in almost every facet of the pitch. Not fit for purpose.

[Master Splinter]

It's lazy to continually cite Xhaka and Mustafi as the main culprits when they've been solid in recent weeks.

Obviously, Mustafi should have gone a long time ago, but it's the nothing senior players in midfield and attack that are letting the team down the most.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's just that we need some hope to offer our better players, or we could lose some of them (i accept auba is now gone for sure anyway) plus not be able to shift losers like xhaka and mustafi on

They probably all need to go anyway. We should focus on the kids. No big names will want to come here, unless they are YouTube talent like Pepe. And the senior lot have failed, failed and failed again. So start over with the kids. We should be getting ESR back. Getting AMN involved again. Giving Willock consistent game time. Getting Eddie and Marti settled as part of a 3 with Auba (until he goes). These players have shown more and done more in a much shorter time, and they don't carry Wenger baggage.

We're a mid-table team now and will be for the foreseeable future and we need to set our sights on the hard work of clawing back up the pecking order. If we somehow fluked a CL spot it wouldn't mean anything. It would just be a false dawn and another delay in doing what has to be done.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's lazy to continually cite Xhaka and Mustafi as the main culprits when they've been solid in recent weeks.

Obviously, Mustafi should have gone a long time ago, but it's the nothing senior players in midfield and attack that are letting the team down the most.

Sadly and pathetically, they are probably our most consistent two right now, in terms of players that aren't randomly benched for no reason. And they aren't particularly good players. They wouldn't get a sniff at a starting spot for Pool or the gypos. Probably not even Utd. But that's our standard now.

72 mill on Pepe. Fuuuuuuck!

[Niall_Quinn]

Should be noted that the Greeks are CL dropouts.

We’d be eaten alive in the CL now. Those last 16 exits under Wenger will seem like the halcyon days.

We’re such a poor team, in almost every facet of the pitch. Not fit for purpose.

Keown reckons they've lost 10 of their last 11 away games in Europe. I wonder who they managed to win against? Who could it possibly be?

[dazthegooner]

Think we can write the season (and probably next) a massive re-build is needed as has been said start playing more or the kids get rid of the deadwood it's a shame we won't be able to keep Auba (after this he's going he's not stupid).

[Bumble]

Only 4 points behind 5th so well within reach in theory but we dont win enough games plus still have Leicester spurs liverpool city wolves to play. Also dross sides like west ham Norwich Watford villa. We probably wont win half our remaining games. So might as well go for fa cup

[Marc Overmars]

Don’t want to be involved in this next year. Aim for 4th or stick with midtable for all I care.

[Letters]

“ A disappointing night at The Emirates.”
- Arsenal on FB.

Masters of the understatement, as always.

Wankers

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Well that was truly worth freezing my knackers off and being a zombie at work tomorrow for. Arteta leaving Laca on for as long as he did would make you cry if you didn't laugh. His movement off the ball in attack was farcical today. The less said about Bellerin's performance today the better and Xhaka was doing his best to roll back the shit years.

I actually thought Pepe was our most dangerous player throughout but this horseshoe formation we were attacking with was really blunt at times. Today's game showed exactly why saying we are scoring less goals as a result of Arteta making us more solid defensively just not the truth. We were a severely blunt instrument today but for an inspired moment from Auba.

He's been really good this season but Leno taking a fuhking age to do everything finally came back to haunt him at the end today and Saka showed why being given 60k a week should not be a foregone conclusion. Far too timid defensively today and stifled too easily in attack.

Also there are far too many middle class fans more interested in practising their new amateur comedy show material than actually supporting the team. Olympiacos away support embarrassed the home support but I suppose that happens every week.

Anyways we are well on course to avoid Europe all together (which is what soo many of our fans seem to want) this season so we can have one nice lovely Saturday game in the sunshine next season. Only we still probably won't make the fuhking top 4 with that one job to do, so yes that's a great bleeding plan!

[Ralpheroo72]

Well that’s Auba and Laca gone in the summer, fucking scary how far we have regressed since Stan turned up

[selassie]

Well that’s Auba and Laca gone in the summer, fucking scary how far we have regressed since Stan turned up

I don’t really think we can blame Kroenke, he has been quite generous with funds the past few seasons and we have mainly spent it on duds.

Now you can argue that we have a coaching issue at Arsenal amongst a multitude of problems. It’s been stated by many others in this thread, outside of Auba, our best players this season have been Saka & Martinelli. How is this even possible? Most of our senior players are absolute garbage, they can all go if anybody actually wants to buy them!

Our starting CB Mustafi has been on the market for almost 3 seasons now and nobody wants him! We’ve not had one offer for him, not even a loan, let that sink in.

We absolutely need to blood youth now, in all of the positions bar a few, we also need to be a lot smarter and strategic in our recruitment for two reasons. We are not an attractive destination anymore and we need to focus on either buying young under the radar talents or blooding youth from the academy.

This season has been an abomination, an embarrassment of poor performances and poor results by a bunch of overpaid wasters.

The task in hand to rebuild not only the team but the rotten culture at this club is huge.

[Globalgunner]

A cake taste good because of its ingredients. A solid house needs good cement and rebar. Our players are really poor. Keeper excepted. None of our senior players is worth 30m in any currency. Auba our most valuable player, yeah, but his penalty miss effectively cost us CL last season and he cant put away the simplest chance when the chips are down. Play the kids, we could be saving 4m per-week on wages and still be at the same performance levels this season, if only we had a more insightful manager and club management. Only in defence do we need to still with some has beens because all our kids there are crocks. We as a football club are akin to Mclaren in F1. Used to be a good team but no matter what they do now they are always also rans.

This team has no alternative attack strategy than give it to Auba....and when Auba goes missing then what. Other teams including lowly ones in the EPL can count on 1 or 2 goals from midfield or defence. We have literally nothing. So Xhaka has not been his woeful self. Can we not improve on him or stick with his stagnant passing from a static position for next season and beyond. Glad I didnt watch it cos it wasnt even shown in these parts. I was certain that we would win. I should have known better.

I have seen nothing from Arteta and these set of players that he constantly picks to see that next season would be any better than this. It could be worse as other teams will seek to improve while we only hope to keep Auba.

[Globalgunner]

Well that’s Auba and Laca gone in the summer, fucking scary how far we have regressed since Stan turned up

We have been a poor team since at least 2006. Kroenke isnt the problem, then or now, except he should have sacked Wenger since 2010.

[Bumble]

why would Auba stay though if he still wants to compete in the CL for last few years of his career. The only positive I suppose there are a limited number of clubs that could afford his salary and transfer fee. Real, Barca, Inter, Juve, PSG, Bayern I don't think he would go to another English club.

Problem for our defence is that Chambers, Holding, Tierney and Bellerin have been injured for significant parts of the season. So we haven't been able to let them play together and learn together. Nobody wants Mustafi, Sokratis has gone backwards and Luiz is Luiz. Saka is doing well generally at left back but he has only a handful of games there so will also take time to learn.

We have no goals from midfield and that is always going to cost you, you cant rely on goals from one player if you want to have a successful season. Should never have chosen Ozil above Ramsey for a contract renewal.

[Bumble]

We have been a poor team since at least 2006. Kroenke isnt the problem, then or now, except he should have sacked Wenger since 2010.

I think the turning point was reneging on the Ashley Cole deal, since then we got rid of our invincible team far too quickly.

[Marc Overmars]

Quite sad watching Auba’s interview. Must be feeling the pressure now of carrying this bunch of losers.

[Özim]

This club is going nowhere, we're destined to be a midtable club, none of the guys at the top care, everything we do is mediocre including our searches for managers, not sure there's anyway back for us now, not until an owner with ambition takes over which may be a very long time indeed.

I'm guessing our share value must be plummeting.

[Letters]

This club is going nowhere, we're destined to be a midtable club, none of the guys at the top care, everything we do is mediocre including our searches for managers, not sure there's anyway back for us now, not until an owner with ambition takes over which may be a very long time indeed.

I'm guessing our share value must be plummeting.

But...but...anyone would be better than Wenger. You pwomised!

I don't think we're that bad, or that good. We lack creativity in midfield, we don't score enough and we are prone to mistakes at the back - fine lines in football, we were one mistake away from going through last night in which case the mood this morning would be very different. We were all cheered after the Everton result but we were very close to dropping 2 points in injury time there. We are just not solid enough. Last night they came for a smash and grab, it was defence vs attack for most of extra time and while we did score in the end it was only because of a moment of inspiration from Auba, not because we were creating clear chances. I'm not going to throw Leno under the bus for conceding the corner which led to the goal, he's the least of our problems, but we are just not good enough at defending these scenarios.

Last season we were close to a top 4 finish and we got to the Europa final, there's the makings of a decent team there. I'm not convinced we need a complete rebuild but there's definitely work to do. I'm going to give Arteta a free pass this season and I've pretty much written off the rest of the season but next year we need to push on.
I'll judge him at the end of the season . Next season.

[Marc Overmars]

As time goes on I’m really starting to appreciate what Wenger did during the early Emirates years. That Fabregas-led team may have choked when it mattered but the football we played week in, week out was still of a really high standard. Players who most would consider inferior to what we have now were playing great football, working seamlessly together and creating multiple chances a game.

Now it’s so disjointed and even creating one decent chance in a match feels like a chore.

[Mac76]

But...but...anyone would be better than Wenger. You pwomised!

I don't think we're that bad, or that good. We lack creativity in midfield, we don't score enough and we are prone to mistakes at the back - fine lines in football, we were one mistake away from going through last night in which case the mood this morning would be very different. We were all cheered after the Everton result but we were very close to dropping 2 points in injury time there. We are just not solid enough. Last night they came for a smash and grab, it was defence vs attack for most of extra time and while we did score in the end it was only because of a moment of inspiration from Auba, not because we were creating clear chances. I'm not going to throw Leno under the bus for conceding the corner which led to the goal, he's the least of our problems, but we are just not good enough at defending these scenarios.

Last season we were close to a top 4 finish and we got to the Europa final, there's the makings of a decent team there. I'm not convinced we need a complete rebuild but there's definitely work to do. I'm going to give Arteta a free pass this season and I've pretty much written off the rest of the season but next year we need to push on.
I'll judge him at the end of the season . Next season.

i agree with a lot of that, we need to acknowledge it's a squad with a range of ability but teh good news is we have some very good and promising young players - if we can hold on to them

i am a bit concerned with team selection and some of the players Arteta's putting trust in. i'm hoping that he's just trying to keep the current squad thinking positively and getting as much out of them this season as he can, but i very much hope he has some marked down to shift out in the summer.

What Keown says below is spot on IMO:

Speaking on BT Sport, Keown said: "It was the first time I felt that the players were not responding to the manager and the manager did not know what changes to make.

"There were so many disappointments in that Arsenal performance. There were so many unprofessional performances from players. Such a poor game for Arsenal.

"If you break down the performance you could have looked at every single player and say that they could have all done more. Nicolas Pepe is going to have to improve. Gabriel Martinelli should have come on a lot earlier. Granit Xhaka was taking the easy way out. A lot of players were not playing their best."

[dostoy]

That old goat devastated the club from top to bottom - the fucker didn't miss a nook or a cranny.


Wait for it.

He'll be on here in a flash.

[Letters]

Wait for it.

He'll be on here in a flash.

Do you mean me? :)

I continue to be amused by people who spent years pretending Wenger was so bad that literally anyone would do better now 2 managers and 2 seasons after Wenger left, when we are clearly worse than we were in even Wenger's last and worst season, pretending that it's still Wenger's fault.
Fact is last season we were close to top 4 and we got to the Europa League final. That's what the squad left us with was able to do. Not sparkling but not mid-table and certainly something to build on. This season it has all gone to shit, I don't know if Arteta is the man to sort it out. To think that last night's debacle means he definitely isn't is as foolish as to think that the win at the weekend means he is. But he deserves some time to have a chance to.

[dostoy]

Do you mean me? :)

I continue to be amused by people who spent years pretending Wenger was so bad that literally anyone would do better now 2 managers and 2 seasons after Wenger left, when we are clearly worse than we were in even Wenger's last and worst season, pretending that it's still Wenger's fault.
Fact is last season we were close to top 4 and we got to the Europa League final. That's what the squad left us with was able to do. Not sparkling but not mid-table and certainly something to build on. This season it has all gone to shit, I don't know if Arteta is the man to sort it out. To think that last night's debacle means he definitely isn't is as foolish as to think that the win at the weekend means he is. But he deserves some time to have a chance to.

Fucking hell Arsene give it up ?

Go back to your old peoples home with your cocoa and a blanket over your knees.

[Letters]

As always, a well thought out argument :)
I was going to delete that as it really adds nothing to the discussion but I think I'll leave it as it shows how stupid you are and that you actually have no response.

[selassie]

Do you mean me? :)

I continue to be amused by people who spent years pretending Wenger was so bad that literally anyone would do better now 2 managers and 2 seasons after Wenger left, when we are clearly worse than we were in even Wenger's last and worst season, pretending that it's still Wenger's fault.
Fact is last season we were close to top 4 and we got to the Europa League final. That's what the squad left us with was able to do. Not sparkling but not mid-table and certainly something to build on. This season it has all gone to shit, I don't know if Arteta is the man to sort it out. To think that last night's debacle means he definitely isn't is as foolish as to think that the win at the weekend means he is. But he deserves some time to have a chance to.

Wenger took us backwards. That’s a fact. He took us from a position of relative strength, finishing 2nd to Leicester that season which was a sackable offence in itself.

He failed to sufficiently strengthen the squad after that.

That aside, despite our horrendous collapse at the end of last season and our embarrassing showing in the Europa Cup Final, Emery outperformed Wenger’s last season. Yes he messed up this season and yes he was rightly sacked, but I certainly don’t long for Wenger. He refused to strengthen the team / squad amongst a number of other issues!

[dostoy]

As always, a well thought out argument :)
I was going to delete that as it really adds nothing to the discussion but I think I'll leave it as it shows how stupid you are and that you actually have no response.

What have I told you before about name calling ?


Haahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


Let me be stupid please.

[Letters]

Wenger took us backwards. That’s a fact. He took us from a position of relative strength, finishing 2nd to Leicester that season which was a sackable offence in itself.

He failed to sufficiently strengthen the squad after that.

That aside, despite our horrendous collapse at the end of last season and our embarrassing showing in the Europa Cup Final, Emery outperformed Wenger’s last season. Yes he messed up this season and yes he was rightly sacked, but I certainly don’t long for Wenger. He refused to strengthen the team / squad amongst a number of other issues!

I don't disagree with any of that and I was cautiously optimistic after Emery's first season, seemed liked a fairly reasonable starting point to build on. There was some improvement from the previous one. But this year it's all gone to shit and you can't sensibly blame the dude who was 2 managers ago and hasn't been manager for 2 years.
Well, apparently you can, but you shouldn't.

But anyway, Arteta can clearly see where the problems are. Whether he can do anything about them...well, we'll have to see.

[Letters]

Let me be stupid please.
I wouldn't know how to stop you :p

Now shall we both behave now? ;)

[dostoy]

I wouldn't know how to stop you :p

Now shall we both behave now? ;)

I am behaving, you're just very touchy and easy to wind up.

Name calling is for children.

[Globalgunner]

Good thing about children is that they eventually grow up

[dazthegooner]

No we don't :sulk:

[Letters]

No we don't :sulk:

Stop being so childish, poo poo pants :sulk:

[dazthegooner]

Telling my mum now you'll be sowwy :p

[GP]

Telling my mum now you'll be sowwy :p

Don't worry about it, I'll tell her later.

[Coney]

I think the turning point was reneging on the Ashley Cole deal, since then we got rid of our invincible team far too quickly.

Sort of - the Ashley Cole saga was a clear case of the board trying to limit David Dein who was arranging the Cole deal and they stopped him. (I remember Wenger saying how silly it was to lose a player over £5000 - then he said nothing more when he realised he had given away the fact that the board had interfered.)

I think the problems with/for Wenger and the club stemmed from 2 things - firstly the loss of David Dein and secondly the desire to build a new stadium and pay it off quickly at the expense of being able to afford top players for a few years.

Dein was the man who got us a lot of players that Wenger would not have bought. When Wenger would think a player good but too expensive, Dein would do a deal and get him anyway.

The years paying off the stadium meant not buying the players we needed to keep the quality squad we had. Wenger still did well with what we had - for years we were still in the top four - even second once - and that without the extra players that would have tipped the balance enough for a PL title. (I am still annoyed by the £40,000,001 offer we made to Liverpool for Suarez. Should have been £50,000,000 and get him as that might have given us the points to nick the title that year and would have been well worth the money).

I think that what then happened is a stagnation - a drop in expectation - so that when we did eventually pay off the stadium and start to spend again, the momentum was gone. Wenger needed to go, NOT because he was crap but because sometimes you just need a fresh start and you need to change the leader to make it happen.

Of course, the other thing is that with the loadsamoney owners of other clubs, the prices of players have gone insane. When Wenger started the new stadium idea to get more money in for the long term, the size of the future costs could not have been forseen.

So while I agree that Wenger should have gone a year or two earlier than he did, it was not because I think he was a bad manager, rather that his longer term plan was overtaken by big money ruining the game.

Blame the board, Sky, rich bastards. But not Wenger.

[Mac76]

Interesting point made on the aresblog podcast about how unfair it is that the away goals rule favours the away side in the second leg - basically olympiacos got 120 mins to score away goals but we only had 90.

The rule should either cease after 90 mins or they should just scrap it altogether.

[dazthegooner]

:gp:

[Coney]

Interesting point made on the aresblog podcast about how unfair it is that the away goals rule favours the away side in the second leg - basically olympiacos got 120 mins to score away goals but we only had 90.

The rule should either cease after 90 mins or they should just scrap it altogether.

I've always thought that too.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Depends how you look at it, we had 120 minutes playing at home.

[Globalgunner]

Sort of - the Ashley Cole saga was a clear case of the board trying to limit David Dein who was arranging the Cole deal and they stopped him. (I remember Wenger saying how silly it was to lose a player over £5000 - then he said nothing more when he realised he had given away the fact that the board had interfered.)

I think the problems with/for Wenger and the club stemmed from 2 things - firstly the loss of David Dein and secondly the desire to build a new stadium and pay it off quickly at the expense of being able to afford top players for a few years.

Dein was the man who got us a lot of players that Wenger would not have bought. When Wenger would think a player good but too expensive, Dein would do a deal and get him anyway.

The years paying off the stadium meant not buying the players we needed to keep the quality squad we had. Wenger still did well with what we had - for years we were still in the top four - even second once - and that without the extra players that would have tipped the balance enough for a PL title. (I am still annoyed by the £40,000,001 offer we made to Liverpool for Suarez. Should have been £50,000,000 and get him as that might have given us the points to nick the title that year and would have been well worth the money).

I think that what then happened is a stagnation - a drop in expectation - so that when we did eventually pay off the stadium and start to spend again, the momentum was gone. Wenger needed to go, NOT because he was crap but because sometimes you just need a fresh start and you need to change the leader to make it happen.

Of course, the other thing is that with the loadsamoney owners of other clubs, the prices of players have gone insane. When Wenger started the new stadium idea to get more money in for the long term, the size of the future costs could not have been forseen.

So while I agree that Wenger should have gone a year or two earlier than he did, it was not because I think he was a bad manager, rather that his longer term plan was overtaken by big money ruining the game.

Blame the board, Sky, rich bastards. But not Wenger.

Agree with a lot of this but disagree with the impact on finances. The mortgage payment rates were far less than the extra revenue annually we generated simply from having bigger capacity than Highbury. It was a net positive on our cashflow. The Arsenal shareholders have stated this several times. They had the statement of accounts and shared it. What was unusual is that the banks locked us into a long term repayment plan where we would actually pay a penalty for early pay off. Strange but true. This is why Bayern where able to build a similar size stadium the Allianz in the same time period and paid it off 5 years ago.
What killed us after the move was bad management from Wenger...always buying players he liked rather than the ones he needed and bribing them to stay with ridiculous wages while being totally tactically inept on the field.

[Niall_Quinn]

The board didn't transform the team from a group of big, technical, high-tempo, win at all costs hard-asses to a bunch of tippety-tap, comatose, choking dwarves. That was all Wenger in his quest to deliver utterly pointless Wengerball MkII.

When he lost the leaders that had come through the ranks during the Graham era his fundamental failings rapidly outpaced his strengths. Shit like letting the players express themselves and train themselves. Bollocks that wrapped the squad in wool and compensated them handsomely for failure. That was all Wenger.

And then when it all went to shit he dragged on for years, master of all he destroyed, clueless about how to halt the slide and compounding the damage as each season passed.

The board's major failing was not having the guts to get rid of him as soon as the danger signs went up. A huge mistake that will cost us extensive time and big money to turn around.

It's very simple to explain why his record towards the end was comparable to Emery's best efforts and now Arteta's early results. Rot takes time to destroy the foundations. It eats away inexorably but, for a while, the house might appear quite normal. But it's doomed and all it takes is the progression of time for the true extent of the destruction to become undeniably evident. He injected the whole club with a slow acting poison that even now can probably take us lower.

Emery likely could have done a half decent job if the squad and the mentality had been somewhat stable, but he was out of his depth as a cancer surgeon. All he could do was watch while Wenger's darlings did what they do best - choke to death every time a genuine challenge was put in front of them.

Arteta faces the same, ongoing problems but at least he's shown some signs he might be able to treat elements of the rot. He's worked a small miracle addressing one of Wenger's biggest acts of vandalism, the defence. I wouldn't claim we are decent, but we could now say we are not catastrophically poor. I guess you can call that progress. And I suspect the weird team selections have a lot to do with general fitness and another treat left behind by Wenger, the overall softness of this squad and their inability to hack a tough season competing on several fronts.

There's so much to do here. Cascading failures across the spectrum. You fix one thing and ten other things collapse. I'll be giving Arteta time because the task he faces warrants it. Listening to fans claiming Wenger did a decent job is quite worrying because it's a prelude to shifting the megaton of shit produced by that inept old fool onto the shoulders of Arteta, should he not produce miracles in short order. Emery suffered that fate, although he never looked like being able to turn things around so he wasn't a great loss. Arteta will probably get the same, sometime during next season. But I have hope he'll be able to repair enough in the meantime to leave a much more realistic challenge for the next guy.

By then, Wenger's appalling legacy will biting into a third victim.

[Letters]

When he lost the leaders that had come through the ranks during the Graham era his fundamental failings rapidly outpaced his strengths.
The argument that Wenger’s early success was because of the leaders in Graham’s squad has some merit but it’s not true to say that the minute they left it all started to go wrong. The Invincibles squad was entirely Wenger’s.

Wenger certainly made mistakes but there were a few factors in us being less competitive in Wenger’s later years.
The new stadium cost coming at the time when the billionaires were having the biggest impact.
The loss of Dein, he was clearly an important factor.
The rest of the game caught up and overtook us. It’s hard to remember now but Wenger came into the English game in an era when foreign players were an exotic luxury, clubs had drinking schools and players dined on fast food. Wenger changed all that, his knowledge of the worldwide game and regime of fitness and diet gave us a big advantage. It didn’t take long for other clubs to catch up.


And then when it all went to shit he dragged on for years, master of all he destroyed, clueless about how to halt the slide and compounding the damage as each season passed.

And yet in his last and worst ever season we finished 6th and got to the Europa League semi-final.
The season before that we won the FA Cup. The idea that he presided over a decade of decline just isn’t borne out by the facts. His last season wasn’t much worse than 05/06, his penultimate season was better than that

https://i.ibb.co/NYHtdr5/Arsenal2004-2019.jpg

The season after he left we finished 5th, we were a few points away from the top 4, and we got to the Europa League final. People can keep pretending Wenger left us with this awful squad if they like but last season showed promise and there was plenty to build on. It went to shit under Emery this season. This season has been miles worse than any Wenger season.

Wenger certainly should have gone before he did. How long before is up for debate. But the idea that Wenger turned into this bumbling idiot and was so inept that anyone would do better was nonsense and has proved to be nonsense. It’s just weird to see people who spent years claiming that are now saying that no wonder we have got worse since he left because of the state Wenger left us in. Last season showed the state he left us in. Not amazing but a few tentative signs of progress and a reasonable base to push on from. Even the start of this season was fine, comparable with other recent seasons. It was about 8 games in when it all started to go very wrong. Literally no one was expecting Emery to work miracles, but I was expecting better than the worst start to a season since 75/76. If the form continues that badly then yes, Arteta should go too. But he deserves another transfer window and season before judging him.

[Coney]

Yeah, but you can prove anything with facts. They just get in the way of talking bollocks.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, but you can prove anything with facts. They just get in the way of talking bollocks.

I'm not going to argue with the master of talking bollocks himself.