Match Reaction v Spuds (away).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinez looks how I feel.

Tyler banging on about Tottenham playing on Thursday.

Anyway, utter shite. Not even a St. Totteringham's Day against the shittest Spuds team in 7 years. Unfortunately that's because we're the shittest Arsenal team in 25 years.

[Niall_Quinn]

I knew there was a valid reason for not watching the games. But I blew it and paid the price.

[Marc Overmars]

Shite.

Is this season over yet? :violin:

[selassie]

Battle of the bottlers?

Ive had a good weekend so far, no need to put a dampner on it by watching this rabble.

We lost....oh what a surprise!

[Master Splinter]

Sticking with error-prone defenders when there's better options was going to cost Arteta eventually.

Sticking with Pepe for so long and slowly giving them the momentum by not changing anything was also poor management.

It was going well for the last few weeks as well. Losing to such a poor side makes it even worse.

Self-harm from the players and self-harm from the manager.

[Globalgunner]

This game is another example of why I'm against a new contract for Auba. Totally useless in crunch games.

[Penguin]

Unless Arteta weeds out morons like Mustafi, Luiz, Xhaka and Kolasinac there's no hope for us. He's given them a chance, he's tried different systems and they've let him down, just like they let Emery and Wenger down. I can't blame Arteta for that.

But if he's still playing them next season then I can and will blame him.

[Niall_Quinn]

This game is another example of why I'm against a new contract for Auba. Totally useless in crunch games.

We've cut him out of our game play. If we're going to prefer Laca and even Eddie through the center then I agree, we don't need Auba. He's our best player, by a mile, and he's kept us out of the relegation fight despite the mismanagement that mostly relegates him to the sidelines. But he'll lose heart eventually and be worthless. It's such terrible management, to ignore a player with his talent. I can only assume Arteta knows he's going so can't see the point in building around him. And I guess you play him because he's one of two players who can produce something beyond the depressing patter ball we insist on playing.

[Marc Overmars]

Battle of the bottlers?

Ive had a good weekend so far, no need to put a dampner on it by watching this rabble.

We lost....oh what a surprise!

Pretty much.

Arsenal losing to a Mourinho team is a pretty safe bet even in the best of times.

[Niall_Quinn]

Unless Arteta weeds out morons like Mustafi, Luiz, Xhaka and Kolasinac there's no hope for us. He's given them a chance, he's tried different systems and they've let him down, just like they let Emery and Wenger down. I can't blame Arteta for that.

But if he's still playing them next season then I can and will blame him.

Arteta talked big talk about being ruthless. So why is he watching these players make the same mistakes over and over? Stick the kids in and at least we have some enthusiasm. So what if we lose? We lose anyway.

[Marc Overmars]

So it’s looking like we will quite possibly finish below newly promoted Sheffield United.

The descent into mediocrity, which has been 10 years in the making, is almost complete.

[Master Splinter]

Arteta talked big talk about being ruthless. So why is he watching these players make the same mistakes over and over? Stick the kids in and at least we have some enthusiasm. So what if we lose? We lose anyway.

Most of us have been saying this all season. It worked recently with Nketiah, Saka and Willock all having a good impact. But, like others before him, he seems to revert to the myth that experience is the safer option. Holding and AMN aren't kids now, but seem to have been frozen out despite the fact that they've put in good performances recently every time they've played.

It makes absolutely no sense for Kolasinac to be starting over Holding in a back three. The other option would be to play Tierney in a three and Saka at wing-back, which was also working well. It's completely baffling.

Arteta has clearly improved a lot of things and is handicapped by what is avalaible to him, but his stubborn choices and favouring certain players over others when there's been no proven merit in doing so has been hugely disappointing.

[RomfordPele]

I think we have to keep talking up Mustafi, Xhaka and Pepe as much as possible and hope some idiot pays us decent money for them.

Best part of £150m they cost us, plus £400k+ a week wages.

Unbelievable the way this club operates.

[Chippy]

I think we have to keep talking up Mustafi, Xhaka and Pepe as much as possible and hope some idiot pays us decent money for them.

Best part of £150m they cost us, plus £400k+ a week wages.

Unbelievable the way this club operates.
We need to get used to supporting a mid table club that used to be good. At least we wont have to play in the Europa League.

[Letters]

We lost....oh what a surprise!

I’m a bit surprised.
I mean, we are pretty poor but Spurs are too.
Thought we might get a point.
Me :pal:

Didn’t bother watching. Just not worth the effort.

[Niall_Quinn]

I’m a bit surprised.
I mean, we are pretty poor but Spurs are too.
Thought we might get a point.
Me :pal:

Didn’t bother watching. Just not worth the effort.

I'm not falling for watching that shower again. Waste of time. Had far more fun watching Verstappen battling Bottas and Lando bossing the last lap. There's still entertainment around if you hunt it down.

[Mac76]

I’m a bit surprised.
I mean, we are pretty poor but Spurs are too.
Thought we might get a point.
Me :pal:

Didn’t bother watching. Just not worth the effort.

I thought spuds would win but i thought it would be through K**t scoring from a 'shouldn't-have-been-given' pelanty - but spuds don't even need those to beat us now, they can just wait for us to f**k up

[Mac76]

Unless Arteta weeds out morons like Mustafi, Luiz, Xhaka and Kolasinac there's no hope for us. He's given them a chance, he's tried different systems and they've let him down, just like they let Emery and Wenger down. I can't blame Arteta for that.

But if he's still playing them next season then I can and will blame him.

It was really unlucky that the one time he started with Holding, he didn't have a good game, but despite that Arteta should see beyond that - why don't people at the club tell him who's good and bad when he joins? Why does he have to wait until Mustafi, Luiz and Kola show how shit they are on numerous occasions, someone could have told him that to start with, it's like everyone at the club is completely blind and can't see what's in front of them, or more likely they're all being paid quite nicely thank you and don't want to rock the boat in case they're thrown over the side

This club is sick to the core basically, it's run by a mafia type who lines the pockets of his agent mates and hires a kid as manager who's too naive and junior to question anything, and the rest of the staff are just yes men

[hobson's choice]

Arteta lineup cost us the match. You playing a Jose that literally doesn't want to possess the ball, they gonna sit back

And this situation you need Xhaka, Bellerin, Kola, Pepe, Tierney all on the pitch.

All the creative responsibilities was on Ceballos and Spurs knew and played accordingly.

[Master Splinter]

It was really unlucky that the one time he started with Holding, he didn't have a good game, but despite that Arteta should see beyond that - why don't people at the club tell him who's good and bad when he joins? Why does he have to wait until Mustafi, Luiz and Kola show how shit they are on numerous occasions, someone could have told him that to start with, it's like everyone at the club is completely blind and can't see what's in front of them, or more likely they're all being paid quite nicely thank you and don't want to rock the boat in case they're thrown over the side

This club is sick to the core basically, it's run by a mafia type who lines the pockets of his agent mates and hires a kid as manager who's too naive and junior to question anything, and the rest of the staff are just yes men

Holding's last start was in the 0-2 against Southampton. In which he was MOTM.

Not started since.

The Leeds game was ages ago, before lockdown. It should have no relevance to anything. It just seems like Arteta doesn't rate him at all. Which is mad, because he's a better defender than Mustafi and Luiz and certainly better on the ball than Kolasinac. He's also not got disastrous errors littered throughout his career.

Must be Guendouzi's enforcer behind the scenes.

[Marc Overmars]

No clue why Kolasicrap was going backwards with a lot of open space to run into. Just sums up our shit, conservative play in these big games.

That’s the reason we haven’t beaten one of the traditional big teams away from home in a million attempts.

[selassie]

I’m a bit surprised.
I mean, we are pretty poor but Spurs are too.
Thought we might get a point.
Me :pal:

Didn’t bother watching. Just not worth the effort.

Lol, ok!

This team is capable of and does lose to anyone. There is nothing in this team, no spine, no heart, no identity. Arteta has a huge task on his hands, good luck to him, he's literally got a web to unpick here, it's a mess alrighty.

[selassie]

No clue why Kolasicrap was going backwards with a lot of open space to run into. Just sums up our shit, conservative play in these big games.

That’s the reason we haven’t beaten one of the traditional big teams away from home in a million attempts.

We actually give goals away, some opposition must love it,"it's only Arsenal lads, they are bound to chuck a couple in there own net, that lot struggle when the wind blows the other way"

We gave both City and Spurs a 2 goal head start in both games. Only Arsenal....

[selassie]

I think we have to keep talking up Mustafi, Xhaka and Pepe as much as possible and hope some idiot pays us decent money for them.

Best part of £150m they cost us, plus £400k+ a week wages.

Unbelievable the way this club operates.

Some wonder why Kroenke won't bite now, he's given the previous rabble millions and they have literally thrown it down the drain. We spent and somehow made the team a lot worse, it's incredible stuff.

What makes it mildly amusing is during this period we gave our best players away for free, that is literally what has happened.

[Marc Overmars]

Hopefully we get some clarity on the Ozil situation soon. I mean, it’s shocking he isn’t even deemed good enough to make a match day squad given how poor our options are. He must have played his last game for us.

[selassie]

Hopefully we get some clarity on the Ozil situation soon. I mean, it’s shocking he isn’t even deemed good enough to make a match day squad given how poor our options are. He must have played his last game for us.

I am starting to wonder if we will pay him off like we did Mkhi with his hush hush exit to Roma.

Ozil is draining this club of a lot of money, he's now become a massive problem and they need to sort it once and for all this summer. It's getting embarrassing now.

[Letters]

Lol, ok!

This team is capable of and does lose to anyone.

So do Spurs. We were on a much better run of form coming into the game, we'd got a good away result at Wolves.
I thought we might get something today.

Arteta does have a task on his hands but we knew that. Especially if Auba goes and who could blame him?
Overall, I wouldn't panic too much about today's result. This season is a write off. A St Tott's day would have been amusing but it would have been the difference between 7th and 8th. Honestly, so what? In the summer and next season is where the hard work starts. There's been some encouraging signs from Arteta's time - we can point to individual good or bad results but overall our results have been pretty decent. There's work to do, clearly, but Arteta deserves a transfer window and season to do it.

[Mac76]

So do Spurs. We were on a much better run of form coming into the game, we'd got a good away result at Wolves.
I thought we might get something today.

Arteta does have a task on his hands but we knew that. Especially if Auba goes and who could blame him?
Overall, I wouldn't panic too much about today's result. This season is a write off. A St Tott's day would have been amusing but it would have been the difference between 7th and 8th. Honestly, so what? In the summer and next season is where the hard work starts. There's been some encouraging signs from Arteta's time - we can point to individual good or bad results but overall our results have been pretty decent. There's work to do, clearly, but Arteta deserves a transfer window and season to do it.

Well that sounds fine until you consider he isn't currently using the best players available to him, playing the three stooges at CB instead of Holding and Soares and personally I'd even prefer Sokratis ahead of the jokers he's putting out there

Then there's things like sidelining Torreira and thinking Willock can come on and save a game when he never does

And anyway knowing us we'll fail to shift all the crap this summer, plus be conned into buying a couple of players we don't need by Rail's dodgy agent friends, i don't think a transfer window will change anything

[Marc Overmars]

Mustafi could be getting a new deal so there’s every chance we could start next season with him and Luiz as first choice. No one is going to pay good money for a turd like Kolasicrap either, although maybe he’ll fuck off if his best mate Ozil leaves too.

I don’t see much changing because I don’t see what business we can do to make a difference. Partey alone isn’t going to change anything and with no match day income every club is bound to be a little bit conservative and players will milk their existing contracts.

Arteta will have to work with what he’s got mainly and he can start by getting a tune out of that 70m shitkicker Pepe.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hopefully we get some clarity on the Ozil situation soon. I mean, it’s shocking he isn’t even deemed good enough to make a match day squad given how poor our options are. He must have played his last game for us.

Utter failure on Arteta's part if he can't get Ozil on the pitch. Whatever else he is, Ozil is by far our most creative player and we desperately need creativity in a team otherwise devoid of it. Worst of all worlds right now. Can't get him in the team and, for some reason I can't guess at, he doesn't want to leave his 350K a week job. So we pay him a fortune to do nothing. The Arsenal Way.

[Globalgunner]

Dont know why anyone is still pining for Ozil. Has he ever won us a game in living memory,? He will rise his way through each and every game. He does nothing whether he is on the pitchor not.. Our entire mid and defence needs ejecting. Otherwise we will be having the same discussion next year after every game. Replace Xhaka and Ceballos with Partey and Buendia or Rakitic or Grealish. Get rid of the dummy centre backs and Kolashite. How is that not obvious. Auba can do one too. He is not a make or break player. We can do better. I'd swap him with Antonio of West ham in a heartbeat.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Buendia and Antonio, seriously swapping Auba for Antonio? :wacko:

Let's focus on getting rid of the shit that has never contributed in any way positively then the ones that would see us in the lower reaches of the league if we were without.

[Letters]

Well that sounds fine until you consider he isn't currently using the best players available to him, playing the three stooges at CB instead of Holding and Soares and personally I'd even prefer Sokratis ahead of the jokers he's putting out there

Then there's things like sidelining Torreira and thinking Willock can come on and save a game when he never does

And anyway knowing us we'll fail to shift all the crap this summer, plus be conned into buying a couple of players we don't need by Rail's dodgy agent friends, i don't think a transfer window will change anything

And yet in 2020 so far only City, Liverpool and Utd have got more points :shrug:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/jahrestabelle/wettbewerb/GB1

Football fans have been criticising football manager's decisions since the dawn of football fans. Especially after bad results.
And I'm not saying your criticisms are invalid but the end result has been pretty decent results which given the car crash Arteta took over gives me some encouragement. This season is a write off, let's just see what he can do next season before writing him off.

[KSE Comedy Club]

An chance we will see an actual clear out this time?

We've all see the headlines in the past 'Arsenal could sell as many as 8 players in big summer cull!!' etc, but this time it is actually required!

No excuse for not starting Holding over Luiz - Arteta to blame.

Also should have started Willock over Xhaka too. I saw him make 10-20 runs into the middle, turn 180 and pass backwards yesterday - total dog shit - Arteta to blame.

Pepe.

I know people are frustrated with him, but lets be honest, he just isn't being given enough game time to settle in. The last time he had a consistent run of playing time was under Emery and since then he has hardly played.
He didn't have enough game time to settle in when he first came here - and that time has dwindled ever since.

Again - Arteta to blame.

Don't get me wrong, I am more than willing to give Arteta time and few transfer windows to get the squad he wants together - but we have endured enough stupid mistakes over the last 10 years and I am not willing to give him a fee pass to come in and make all the same ones again.

It's fucking mind numbing!!

[Marc Overmars]

And yet in 2020 so far only City, Liverpool and Utd have got more points :shrug:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/jahrestabelle/wettbewerb/GB1

Football fans have been criticising football manager's decisions since the dawn of football fans. Especially after bad results.
And I'm not saying your criticisms are invalid but the end result has been pretty decent results which given the car crash Arteta took over gives me some encouragement. This season is a write off, let's just see what he can do next season before writing him off.


That table does not account for the draw and defeat in his first 2 games, which were in the final 10 days of 2019, are we still 4th in that table with that factored in? Considering there is only a point between 4th and 8th I’m guessing maybe not. Results have not been that decent, it has been a complete mixed bag really. Which is a reflection of our league position, I think we were 7th when Emery left. So what’s changed there?

Forget about the teams who we used to consider our competitors, they will all be in the CL (except Spurs :pal:) and start comparing to the teams who are directly above us and the ones below us who are in striking distance. It is sobering.

I’m all for giving Arteta a shot, the main thing he has done is to improve us structurally, so we are not being peppered by every team we face. However the stupid mistakes are still there and yes he can’t account for rubbish like Kolasinac doing stupid shit but he doesn’t have to revert to picking these players who have a history of letting the team down. All in the name of “experience”.

[Mac76]

Utter failure on Arteta's part if he can't get Ozil on the pitch. Whatever else he is, Ozil is by far our most creative player and we desperately need creativity in a team otherwise devoid of it. Worst of all worlds right now. Can't get him in the team and, for some reason I can't guess at, he doesn't want to leave his 350K a week job. So we pay him a fortune to do nothing. The Arsenal Way.

Arteta's doing exactly what Emery did and playing a pathetic 'show them who's boss' game with Ozil who as you say is our most creative player

Arteta's only concerned with being the boss and those who suck up to him get to play and those who don't are frozen out

it's the typical approach of a loser who doesn't have the confidence to allow players to have a personality of their own or to question his ideas

ok so fergucu*t did it with impressionable kids but our players are too old to be pushed around like that - Ozil just laughs in his face and takes the cash

[Niall_Quinn]

Dont know why anyone is still pining for Ozil. Has he ever won us a game in living memory,? He will rise his way through each and every game. He does nothing whether he is on the pitchor not.. Our entire mid and defence needs ejecting. Otherwise we will be having the same discussion next year after every game. Replace Xhaka and Ceballos with Partey and Buendia or Rakitic or Grealish. Get rid of the dummy centre backs and Kolashite. How is that not obvious. Auba can do one too. He is not a make or break player. We can do better. I'd swap him with Antonio of West ham in a heartbeat.

The stories about Arsenal having no cash for the summer are already doing the rounds. Even if there's a few quid, we'd probably buy Pepe's brother anyway. Based on the almost certainty of us not replacing the whole midfield and the entire defence, you have to look at what we've got and try to make something out of it.

Watching us attempt to create a worthwhile chance is pure pain. Sideways, sideways, forwards, back, repeat x 20, lose the ball. All at 1 mph. Over and over. I end up feeling sorry for the opposition as they must be bored to death. Maybe that's the plan?

For all the plaudits, Ceballos doesn't create much. He's tidy, and I think that stands out in a team of panic-merchants who are desperate to get rid of the ball. Our creative guy is Ozil. He's not at the top of his game any more, he can go missing entirely, but that's par for all our players except the kids who show a bit of potential. Auba is feeding on thin air. There aren't even a few scraps for him. He has to make his own chances and finish his own chances. And because that's particularly difficult, he's not going to be able to do it week in, week out. He needs players around him he can work with to break defences down or penetrate with a bit of pace. That's why Ozil, he's all we've got.

Same with the kids, they have to play. Willock, Saka, Eddie, Nelson, AMN, they all have more energy an adventure than the tired bunch of experienced fuck-ups trudging around the place. The kids will make mistakes and it will cost us. But that's standard anyway. There's no real risk and there's the possibility of knitting them into a team if the remainder of this non-event of a season is turned over to them. I'd stick them out for the cup semi too, they'll likely get beaten by the gypos (which is a sure thing if we put the usual side out) but if they could pull off a win it would be a great team building moment.

You still need a few old heads in there though to bring it all together. Ozil, Auba, even Xhaka/ Torreira because you need a water carrier in any team.

None of this will happen though. It'll be the same shite right through to the end of the season, then a disappointing transfer window, then start again with more of the same. There's a lack of balls at the senior level, both on and off the pitch. The sort of balls that appointed Wenger back when nobody knew his name. It might seem like appointing a rookies coach was a ballsy move, but if he's not supported with funds and the ability to take a large broom to the deadwood he just end up being a cheap placeholder.

[selassie]

So do Spurs. We were on a much better run of form coming into the game, we'd got a good away result at Wolves.
I thought we might get something today.

Arteta does have a task on his hands but we knew that. Especially if Auba goes and who could blame him?
Overall, I wouldn't panic too much about today's result. This season is a write off. A St Tott's day would have been amusing but it would have been the difference between 7th and 8th. Honestly, so what? In the summer and next season is where the hard work starts. There's been some encouraging signs from Arteta's time - we can point to individual good or bad results but overall our results have been pretty decent. There's work to do, clearly, but Arteta deserves a transfer window and season to do it.

Letters you were saying exactly the same kind of stuff when Wenger was in charge and we were dropping out of top 4.

At what point is enough enough? We are half way down the table as it is with a squad full of washed up players who have little to no resell value. Things could be worse...but they could be a lot better too!

This season is indeed a write off...next season will be too unless we improve the team / squad.

I think Arteta has done ok, 7/10 type stuff, probably higher considering he has never managed a team before. But....he does need time and does need to be backed properly. I am not sure either is going to happen though.

This rebuild is a proper project, we can't be hiring and firing and throwing mud at the wall and hoping it sticks...this rebuild is going to require time, money and patience!

[Özim]

This season has been a car crash, with Emery and with Arteta (who hasn't been much better if at all better.

Awful football (probably gotten worse since Arteta has arrived as he's reverted to the 2016 team spirit and pass pass nonsense) which is probably even more of a bore than when Wenger had us playing because it now involves no atttack, defending is still as calamitous (and we still have a manager who seems to be happy to put his faith in liability and worse still encourage the club to sign them up on new contracts (first Luiz and now Mustafi it seems), midfield non existent and now the attack is toothless, I must say Arteta is doing a splendid job, not only can we still not defend, but now we can't attack either.

Results have been awful as well by in large, yes we've got to odd decent result, but that's scattered amongst many abysmal ones. If you needed any evidence that employing a rookie was a mistake I think you're seeing it, since the day he arrived we've not moved up in the league at all (in fact we may have fallen lower) and we got knocked out of the EL by an average team to boot.

Do we trust the board to do anything in the summer, of course not, with the Coronavirus thing they have the perfect excuse not to invest, on top of that if we're relying on recommendations from Arteta we're in trouble as the guy seems to rate Xhaka, Luiz and Mustafi 3 of the biggest liabilites at the club, he was also all too happy not to pick Martinelli, one of the few bright spots, he was probably saving him of course, saving him until he got injured.

All in all it's be a great season, we don't know how lucky we are tbh.

[Globalgunner]

We need to.stop.daydreaming. No elite players are co.ing to Arsenal. If we are sacking tea ladies to save 10k. How are we going g to pay even the outrageous wages most of these slackers are on right now. We either catch some still elite players like Rakitic on his way down and still affordable on maybe 100kpw or we unearth some more gems like Martinelli. We have had 3 seasons of Auba now and he has won us nothing. Not even could he put away a pen that could have made CL qualification and he regularly balloons gilt edged chances. Are we going g to give him 3 years on 300k for that when income without crowds will likely be down 30 or 40 %.

I am pissed with all these high paid wasters. Nobody is going to offer Auba 300kpw. Yet we always bargain as if a bullet is loaded in chamber at every meeting. At least let's get our money's worth. Right now that isn't happening. Of course it will make no difference up front if we persist with our calamity midfield and horror defence.but yesterday's defeat was as.much attack.led as defence caused.

[Mac76]

We need to.stop.daydreaming. No elite players are co.ing to Arsenal. If we are sacking tea ladies to save 10k. How are we going g to pay even the outrageous wages most of these slackers are on right now. We either catch some still elite players like Rakitic on his way down and still affordable on maybe 100kpw or we unearth some more gems like Martinelli. We have had 3 seasons of Auba now and he has won us nothing. Not even could he put away a pen that could have made CL qualification and he regularly balloons gilt edged chances. Are we going g to give him 3 years on 300k for that when income without crowds will likely be down 30 or 40 %.

I am pissed with all these high paid wasters. Nobody is going to offer Auba 300kpw. Yet we always bargain as if a bullet is loaded in chamber at every meeting. At least let's get our money's worth. Right now that isn't happening. Of course it will make no difference up front if we persist with our calamity midfield and horror defence.

you really can't lay the blame at Auba's door, just look at how many goals he scores from out on the left wing and with a generally crap team around him - it's a miracle tbh

but you're right we should be grown up in any negotiations and not just chuck too much money at him, after all at some point he could slow down dramatically - just look how shite laca's been this season (one good goal on sunday doesn't forgive a bucketload of misses)

[Mac76]

This season has been a car crash, with Emery and with Arteta (who hasn't been much better if at all better.

Awful football (probably gotten worse since Arteta has arrived as he's reverted to the 2016 team spirit and pass pass nonsense) which is probably even more of a bore than when Wenger had us playing because it now involves no atttack, defending is still as calamitous (and we still have a manager who seems to be happy to put his faith in liability and worse still encourage the club to sign them up on new contracts (first Luiz and now Mustafi it seems), midfield non existent and now the attack is toothless, I must say Arteta is doing a splendid job, not only can we still not defend, but now we can't attack either.

Results have been awful as well by in large, yes we've got to odd decent result, but that's scattered amongst many abysmal ones. If you needed any evidence that employing a rookie was a mistake I think you're seeing it, since the day he arrived we've not moved up in the league at all (in fact we may have fallen lower) and we got knocked out of the EL by an average team to boot.

Do we trust the board to do anything in the summer, of course not, with the Coronavirus thing they have the perfect excuse not to invest, on top of that if we're relying on recommendations from Arteta we're in trouble as the guy seems to rate Xhaka, Luiz and Mustafi 3 of the biggest liabilites at the club, he was also all too happy not to pick Martinelli, one of the few bright spots, he was probably saving him of course, saving him until he got injured.

All in all it's be a great season, we don't know how lucky we are tbh.

:gp:

[Letters]

This season has been a car crash, with Emery and with Arteta (who hasn't been much better if at all better.
Oh here he is.
Didn't see you posting over the last 5 games. First defeat and here you come running.

:rolleyes:

[Mac76]

Oh here he is.
Didn't see you posting over the last 5 games. First defeat and here you come running.

:rolleyes:

He's right though... ;)

[Globalgunner]

He's right though... ;)

And being criticized by the chap who confesses to not even bothering to watch the matches

[Letters]

He's right though... ;)

He is mostly right. This season has been a car crash. 50 points after 35 games. 51 goals scored :doh:
Course, in the "thoroughly enjoyable" 92/93 season we also had 50 points at this stage and had only scored 35 goals.
But hey, maybe Zim is waiting to see if we win the FA Cup [spoiler: not a chance] before deciding whether this season has been "thoroughly enjoyable" after all?

I don't have much time for someone who only comes on here for drive by whining and doesn't post at all after good results. Where were his posts and analysis after the run of wins? :tumbleweed: Especially after years spent saying how bad Wenger was, trying to rewrite history and saying and how anyone would come in and do better and... :blah:

In brief: He's a troll.

[selassie]

He is mostly right. This season has been a car crash. 50 points after 35 games. 51 goals scored :doh:
Course, in the "thoroughly enjoyable" 92/93 season we also had 50 points at this stage and had only scored 35 goals.
But hey, maybe Zim is waiting to see if we win the FA Cup [spoiler: not a chance] before deciding whether this season has been "thoroughly enjoyable" after all?

I don't have much time for someone who only comes on here for drive by whining and doesn't post at all after good results. Where were his posts and analysis after the run of wins? :tumbleweed: Especially after years spent saying how bad Wenger was, trying to rewrite history and saying and how anyone would come in and do better and... :blah:

In brief: He's a troll.

Letters, he is right!

This is just a repeat of the same stuff where some of us got crucified for daring to suggest Wenger should go many years ago when it was evident he was doing more damage than good.

Things aren't rosy at Arsenal, we have major structural problems and I don't think what Zim is saying is wrong TBH, everybody knows we have problems...

[Letters]

Letters, he is right!
He is mostly right. But when we won 4 games in a row...not a peep from him. Literally not a single post.
The first defeat and here he comes running like Roy Keane to a referee when Utd just conceded a penalty back in the day. :rolleyes:
This is the same person who retrospectively declared the 92/93 season "thoroughly enjoyable" when, as I have shown, our league results that year were just as bad as this one so far. He did so based on the cup wins which were admittedly the cherry on top of a complete shit pie of a season. But hey, we're still in the FA Cup. If we win it will this season become "thoroughly enjoyable"? (Obviously we won't win the FA Cup, but just supposing)
He's just a perennial whiner and WUM.


This is just a repeat of the same stuff where some of us got crucified for daring to suggest Wenger should go many years ago when it was evident he was doing more damage than good.

The mood changed over time. Initially yes, there was some "be careful what you wish for"ing. After what Wenger did in the early years and with the whole complication of the stadium move he was afforded some understandable patience. I'll admit I was too late to the "Wenger Out" party but I continued to rail against the idea that he was some bumbling idiot and that anyone would come in and do better. I consistently said that we had other problems that removing Wenger wouldn't fix. And look where we are now. Which doesn't mean I wish we'd kept Wenger. I agree he stayed too long even if I disagree with many about how much too long. But the squad he left us with did OK last season. It was something to build on. It's only this year that Emery has completely bolloxed things up. Wenger doesn't get off scott free but as I said we did OK last year with mostly his squad so it can't entirely be his fault either. This season is significantly worse than any Wenger season .


Things aren't rosy at Arsenal, we have major structural problems and I don't think what Zim is saying is wrong TBH, everybody knows we have problems...

It's not that what he's saying is all wrong, it's the fact that he pops up here after every bad result to whine about how awful everything is.
There's no nuance, no analysis, no sense that he's actually pleased when we get good results. Just endless whining. Nothing that lends itself to any debate.

My take is for all our problems, Arteta has done OK. He's not worked miracles but did we really expect him to? Unless there's a really world class manager out there who we could get for next season I say let's give him a full season before throwing him to the wolves. I don't want us to be a revolving door club, endlessly chopping and changing things. Had results got even worse since he joined then it's a different conversation, but they haven't.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why can't he come here and sound off when the team chucks games away, like they did against the spuds? Maybe he uses the place to voice his frustration, rather than on an everyday basis. So what? Is that against the rules?

[Letters]

Why can't he come here and sound off when the team chucks games away, like they did against the spuds? Maybe he uses the place to voice his frustration, rather than on an everyday basis. So what? Is that against the rules?

He doesn't do that. He has a long and boring history of trolling

[selassie]

He is mostly right. But when we won 4 games in a row...not a peep from him. Literally not a single post.
The first defeat and here he comes running like Roy Keane to a referee when Utd just conceded a penalty back in the day. :rolleyes:
This is the same person who retrospectively declared the 92/93 season "thoroughly enjoyable" when, as I have shown, our league results that year were just as bad as this one so far. He did so based on the cup wins which were admittedly the cherry on top of a complete shit pie of a season. But hey, we're still in the FA Cup. If we win it will this season become "thoroughly enjoyable"? (Obviously we won't win the FA Cup, but just supposing)
He's just a perennial whiner and WUM.



The mood changed over time. Initially yes, there was some "be careful what you wish for"ing. After what Wenger did in the early years and with the whole complication of the stadium move he was afforded some understandable patience. I'll admit I was too late to the "Wenger Out" party but I continued to rail against the idea that he was some bumbling idiot and that anyone would come in and do better. I consistently said that we had other problems that removing Wenger wouldn't fix. And look where we are now. Which doesn't mean I wish we'd kept Wenger. I agree he stayed too long even if I disagree with many about how much too long. But the squad he left us with did OK last season. It was something to build on. It's only this year that Emery has completely bolloxed things up. Wenger doesn't get off scott free but as I said we did OK last year with mostly his squad so it can't entirely be his fault either. This season is significantly worse than any Wenger season .



It's not that what he's saying is all wrong, it's the fact that he pops up here after every bad result to whine about how awful everything is.
There's no nuance, no analysis, no sense that he's actually pleased when we get good results. Just endless whining. Nothing that lends itself to any debate.

My take is for all our problems, Arteta has done OK. He's not worked miracles but did we really expect him to? Unless there's a really world class manager out there who we could get for next season I say let's give him a full season before throwing him to the wolves. I don't want us to be a revolving door club, endlessly chopping and changing things. Had results got even worse since he joined then it's a different conversation, but they haven't.

Come on man, hardly anybody posts on here after we win, me included. I don't know about the other stuff you are posting so can't really comment on it. But I don't think Zim is a troll, he just like most of us gets pissed off with the current situation. I am pissed off, I'm sick to death of the club.

I agree that the issue is way more complex than Arteta, in fact unless everybody on board (Arsenal management and board) has the clubs best interest at heart...which I don't believe to be case, then we will continue to struggle.

[Marc Overmars]

What’s there to talk about after we win anyway? Wins have been so meaningless this season.

[Letters]

What’s there to talk about after we win anyway?
:blink:

So if you go to a game and we win you just stand in the pub silently afterwards, we won so there's nothing to say?!
It's a game of football, whatever the result there are surely talking points.

[Niall_Quinn]

He doesn't do that. He has a long and boring history of trolling

Ah okay. That must be what it is then.

[Niall_Quinn]

Come on man, hardly anybody posts on here after we win, me included. I don't know about the other stuff you are posting so can't really comment on it. But I don't think Zim is a troll, he just like most of us gets pissed off with the current situation. I am pissed off, I'm sick to death of the club.

I agree that the issue is way more complex than Arteta, in fact unless everybody on board (Arsenal management and board) has the clubs best interest at heart...which I don't believe to be case, then we will continue to struggle.

Our football's just as boring, whether we win, lose or draw. Not much to talk about. Sideways, backwards, didn't he do well? We're lucky if we can muster more than a couple of shots on goal these days. But what seems to piss most people off the most is the repetitive mistakes from individuals that cost points and games. That topic gets a fair bit of coverage and when those repetitive errors cost us, chances are we're on the losing end. And it's legitimate to wonder why any manager puts up with it.

[Marc Overmars]

People will just always be more confident in speaking about the negatives because there’s enough evidence to suggest they’re right. It’s difficult to be wholeheartedly positive when there’s so much evidence to the contrary. Talking points are always discussed anyway, win, lose or draw.

[Mac76]

People will just always be more confident in speaking about the negatives because there’s enough evidence to suggest they’re right. It’s difficult to be wholeheartedly positive when there’s so much evidence to the contrary. Talking points are always discussed anyway, win, lose or draw.

yes we all know what the plus points are - a handful of young exciting players like Saka, Martinelli (remember him?), Holding (or him?) etc

but there's not much chance to talk positively about them as they either don't get picked or their performances are overwhelmed by all the shite going on around them, caused by rubbish teammates and the rubbish manager who picked the lineup

and then there's the mafia types running the club and lining the pockets of their agent mates in every transfer window

[Marc Overmars]

Plus, who doesn’t love a fucking good rant to get things off their chest? I don’t speak about football with any great detail with my friends and family so this is a good platform for me to do so.

[Penguin]

No one's going to get excited about a handful of wins against teams we should be beating anyway. We didn't even play well in those wins.

The positivity will only come when there's a genuine sign of improvement. For Arsenal fans there's not much to look forward to at the moment.

[Mac76]

No one's going to get excited about a handful of wins against teams we should be beating anyway. We didn't even play well in those wins.

The positivity will only come when there's a genuine sign of improvement. For Arsenal fans there's not much to look forward to at the moment.

You're right, we largely pubbed the wins, especually at Wolves who were awful that day

[Özim]

Oh here he is.
Didn't see you posting over the last 5 games. First defeat and here you come running.

:rolleyes:

What was there to post about, some average performances that lead to some largely meaningless wins? We've been pretty poor, the football has been awful win, lose or draw and the there's been many bad decisions regarding lineups/subs etc I'm also disliking the re-integration and praising of sub standard players who should be moved on not (as we seem to be doing and Arteta seems to be encouraging us to do) re-signed up.

We lost the NLD as it stands probably our most meaningful game left in the league, against a Spurs side who aren't even that good, again we see the errors, but wait these are errors from players who get picked regardless of their errors. Nothing changes at this club, we know all about the owner and guys upstairs, either not interested or not capable enough, sadly they also pick the managers and as with most things get it wrong, too many mistakes too often I'm afraid.

You might be willing to give a new manager years but I'm not, if it means chopping and changing so be it, until we actually get someone who at least appears on the face of it competent and makes logical decisions and doesn't praise players who regularly cost us games, it's Wenger all over again, but that's no great surprise as Wenger pretty much hand picked this guy before he left and Arteta has spoken about getting the spirit back from when he was here in 2016 (is he for real, noone wants that back, that's when we we bottling it left, right and centre!)

I was unimpressed by the appointment of a rookie, unimpressed with what he's had to say and unimpressed with what he's delivered this far, our league position is no better than when he arrived (it might even be worse), we got humbled in the EL at the earliest stage we can remember and are probably going to get hammered in the FA Cup to boot, all whilst playing poor football, with a leaky defence and now a toothless attack and on top of that we have to put up with players like Xhaka (who should have not be re-integrated after his behaviour and in fact should be sold), Mustafi who has been consistently sub standard since he arrived (but who is now being praised by Arteta who seemingly wants him resigned up) and Luiz who makes key errors in almost all big games (that's not even mentioning Kolasinac who frankly can't defend, another one of those players that apparently excelled in the Bundesligue but has been hopeless here, like Xhaka).

So yes I will post when I feel like it, not necessarily after some uninspiring narrow win which is mostly an anomaly rather than a sign of progress, but just when I feel like it tbh.

There's a couple bright spots this season in Saka and Martinelli (but of course Arteta wouldn't play him despite his performances this season and then low and behold he got injured so now can't play at all - the whole thing is ridiculous to be honest, he should have been playing from the restart and any decent manager would have played him), but other than that not much to get excited about, Arteta has done much, we're midtable and he's made zero progress since he arrived, he had a lot to prove being a rookie, but he's proved nothing at all (today he was happy to support the decision Man City overturned saying they deserve to be in the CL, I guess he was returning the favour that Guardiola did him by praising him as a potentially top manager) .

[Letters]

What was there to post about.
The same as any game. How people played, whether 'x' should have started instead of 'y'.
Talking points. The ref was shit. We should've had a penalty.
Do you really lack that much imagination that you can't think of a single thing to talk about unless it's to moan about how shit things are after a bad result?

[Mac76]

The same as any game. How people played, whether 'x' should have started instead of 'y'.
Talking points. The ref was shit. We should've had a penalty.
Do you really lack that much imagination that you can't think of a single thing to talk about unless it's to moan about how shit things are after a bad result?

well it's just a bit odd to complain about someone posting on a message board - that's what they're for and there's no rule saying you have to post a certain number of times a week (NQ take note ;) )

[Özim]

The same as any game. How people played, whether 'x' should have started instead of 'y'.
Talking points. The ref was shit. We should've had a penalty.
Do you really lack that much imagination that you can't think of a single thing to talk about unless it's to moan about how shit things are after a bad result?

We won, there's not much to say, it's not like this is some great performance or amazing football, it's a win, in a disaster of a season where we currently sit 9th, we've been midtable most of the season in fact and Arteta hasn't changed that, say what you like but if he's done anything you'd think we'd be higher up the table by now, he's had enough games.

Nothing about this club exites me at the moment, I'm not really sure how it's gone this wrong, I think few people get any pleasure out of seeing Arsenal these days, there's something fundamentally wrong with this club that seems to lead to it making error after error and never learning from it, it's actually really odd.

I also can't get my head round managers that seem intent on sticking with players who cost their team points regularly, do they just pick their teams by how friendly they are with them, as they certainy don't seem to pick the team on merit or using logic.

There's just no logic is not playing Martinelli after the restart when he'd been great for us before it, nor picking Luiz and praising him and getting the board to resign him, nor praising Mustafi and suggesting he wants to keep him and it's with the board now, nor playing Xhaka week in week out, or always playing Aubameyang out wide. Stuff like this is really turning me against Arteta, as is his rigid style of play and poor subs. For all the talk about the defence being better, we're still making errors that cost goals left, right and centre and now our attack is blunt to boot.

Arteta seems unable to get the best out of what he has, he's insistent on that one style of play when he doesn't have the players to do it, I mean on isn't it possible to be a bit flexible and adapt to what you have?

[Niall_Quinn]

well it's just a bit odd to complain about someone posting on a message board - that's what they're for and there's no rule saying you have to post a certain number of times a week (NQ take note ;) )

???

the fuck?

[Letters]

We won, there's not much to say

Or, we lost, there's not much to say :shrug:
There's always things to talk about after a game.


it's a win, in a disaster of a season where we currently sit 9th, we've been midtable most of the season in fact

Yes. Same number of points as the 92/93 season where the football was even worse.
But that was thoroughly enjoyable...


Nothing about this club exites me at the moment, I'm not really sure how it's gone this wrong, I think few people get any pleasure out of seeing Arsenal these days, there's something fundamentally wrong with this club that seems to lead to it making error after error and never learning from it, it's actually really odd.

I actually agree with this. We used to be a really well run club, not it's a complete shitshow from top to bottom.
That's why I never thought removing Wenger, while necessary, was a silver bullet.

For me, Arteta deserve a full season to try and improve things. He hasn't worked miracles but I'm not sure anyone could have.
I'm not super-excited about next season but don't want to write Arteta off just yet.

[Özim]

Yes. Same number of points as the 92/93 season where the football was even worse.
But that was thoroughly enjoyable...

How many times do I have to repeat this, in 92/93 we basically ditched the league and focussed on the cups (and won both with some exciting games on the way), that's why we ended there, we didn't have to squad to compete for all 3 so Graham focussed on the cups given the league was probably out of our reach.




I actually agree with this. We used to be a really well run club, not it's a complete shitshow from top to bottom.
That's why I never thought removing Wenger, while necessary, was a silver bullet.

For me, Arteta deserve a full season to try and improve things. He hasn't worked miracles but I'm not sure anyone could have.
I'm not super-excited about next season but don't want to write Arteta off just yet.

The problem is we got rid of Wenger and didn't bring in the right guys, you can't just pick anyone and expect success you need someone who knows what they're doing and is proven, Emery was a punt, I'm not really sure what went on but other the EL he wasn't a success, I preferrred him over Arteta who we were looking at at the time as well though, then we sack him, pretend to spend months looking for someone and bring in Arteta (a guy we already almost brought in 18 months before - doesn't sound like it was much of a search does it?) someone who has never manager a football club before, IMO it was a bad decision and so far it's proving to be just that, I haven't seen anything this guy is bringing that's different/refreshing or innovative, it's just the same rubbish we've seen for years, with rewarding players who don't perform, dropping players who do and weird lineups.

I don't agree he needs a full season, based on the decisions he's making the players he rates (and wants the board to re-sign), that's enough evidence he's not up to the job for me, I don't need 2 years to see that. Like I said before it's the odd lineups/ decisions etc, there's no excuse for those, a decent manager wouldn't rely on players like Xhaka, Luiz and Mustafi and continuously praise them.

Arteta is basically Wenger II Lite, same kind of thing but this time with an impotent attack as well.

[Mac76]

???

the fuck?

:haha:

[Letters]

How many times do I have to repeat this, in 92/93 we basically ditched the league and focussed on the cups
Something which at the time you'd have been moaning your tits off about, no doubt, given the way you post on here after the first bad result.
Were there exciting games in the Cup runs? The Leeds away game I remember being good (the home game was dull as).
The semi-final was exciting because it was revenge for the '91 semi-final but it was an awful game as were the finals.
We won 2 trophies so if you just look at that final result then I guess it was successful, but as someone who had a season ticket it was mostly awful. We scored something like 40 goals in 42 games. At one point I remember thinking we might actually get relegated! Never actually going to happen, looking back, but we flirted with it. My dad nearly gave up the season tickets that season it was so awful, he only kept them on because of the cup wins which mitigated it somewhat. You're looking back at a handful of games over the whole season, remembering those fondly and declaring the whole season "thoroughly enjoyable" when for most of that season, if you were following it, you'd have been bored witless.


The problem is we got rid of Wenger and didn't bring in the right guys, you can't just pick anyone and expect success

:lol: People spent years on here saying that Wenger was so bad that anyone would do better!
I don't agree Emery was a punt. Arteta is a punt, Emery had a pretty decent track record. OK, he's no Klopp but he'd had a reasonable amount of success.
And his first season was pretty decent. Bit of an improvement on Wenger's last season, got us to a Cup Final. A solid base to build on. How he buggered things up so spectacularly this season is anyone's guess.

If there was someone at the level of Klopp who we could get this summer I guess then fine, I'd be OK with that. But is there? Realistically?
If not then give Arteta some time. He's certainly no worse than Emery and I don't want us to be one of those clubs with a revolving door for managers.
Plenty of examples of managers who have taken over and been successful but it's taken a while. Klopp took over Liverpool in 2015/6 don't forget, got them to a CL Final which they lost but in terms of the league they actually finished 8th, lower and with fewer points than the previous season.
I'm not saying Arteta is at his level, but writing off a manager after half a season is crazy.

[Özim]

Something which at the time you'd have been moaning your tits off about, no doubt, given the way you post on here after the first bad result.
Were there exciting games in the Cup runs? The Leeds away game I remember being good (the home game was dull as).
The semi-final was exciting because it was revenge for the '91 semi-final but it was an awful game as were the finals.
We won 2 trophies so if you just look at that final result then I guess it was successful, but as someone who had a season ticket it was mostly awful. We scored something like 40 goals in 42 games. At one point I remember thinking we might actually get relegated! Never actually going to happen, looking back, but we flirted with it. My dad nearly gave up the season tickets that season it was so awful, he only kept them on because of the cup wins which mitigated it somewhat. You're looking back at a handful of games over the whole season, remembering those fondly and declaring the whole season "thoroughly enjoyable" when for most of that season, if you were following it, you'd have been bored witless.

Very different time, I believed in that team, they had some steel, could upset the odds and they did, the league wasn't but the cup runs were really good and very exciting IMO, as I said we ditched the league, went on a bad run then won 7-1 against Wednesday in one game



:lol: People spent years on here saying that Wenger was so bad that anyone would do better!
I don't agree Emery was a punt. Arteta is a punt, Emery had a pretty decent track record. OK, he's no Klopp but he'd had a reasonable amount of success.
And his first season was pretty decent. Bit of an improvement on Wenger's last season, got us to a Cup Final. A solid base to build on. How he buggered things up so spectacularly this season is anyone's guess.

If there was someone at the level of Klopp who we could get this summer I guess then fine, I'd be OK with that. But is there? Realistically?
If not then give Arteta some time. He's certainly no worse than Emery and I don't want us to be one of those clubs with a revolving door for managers.
Plenty of examples of managers who have taken over and been successful but it's taken a while. Klopp took over Liverpool in 2015/6 don't forget, got them to a CL Final which they lost but in terms of the league they actually finished 8th, lower and with fewer points than the previous season.
I'm not saying Arteta is at his level, but writing off a manager after half a season is crazy.

I think when people said anyone, they didn't literally mean anyone, that was just a mannerof speakig, they meant anyone half decent who was able to make logical decisions and assess a players ability properly.

I don't see Arteta doing anything, you can see he prides himself in being a mini Wenger and he makes the same basic errors, there's nothing new, nthing exciting, nothing innovative, it's more of the boring rubbish, I can't stand it anymore.

If he'd come in with fresh ideas and showing a clear method, tactical nous and a willingness to ditch players who cost us games it might be different, but they guy does none of that, keeping him for another year is just a waste of time, you can tell what he's doing now he's not the right man, anyone who trusts and praises players like Luiz, Mustafi and Xhaka clearly is a poor judge of player ability.

[WMUG]

Very different time, I believed in that team, they had some steel, could upset the odds and they did, the league wasn't but the cup runs were really good and very exciting IMO, as I said we ditched the league, went on a bad run then won 7-1 against Wednesday in one game

That was a different season.

[Özim]

That was a different season.

Actually yeah it was, my bad, that was the season after we won the title.

[Letters]

Very different time, I believed in that team, they had some steel, could upset the odds and they did
This is actually true, they did have the ability to raise it on occasion and while no, the cup runs weren't exciting games - it was one of the worst Cup Semi-Finals and Finals ever - it was obviously exciting to win both Cups and it did mitigate what was in general a bloody awful season.


as I said we ditched the league, went on a bad run
We didn't "ditch" the league. I mean, maybe it affected results at some point in the season but by mid-January we were already in the middle of a horrible run about which I can't imagine the way you'd have been whining had GW existed at the time. It was a run which saw is win 1 game out of 11 in the league and that was mostly before we'd really got anywhere in the cups. We were very much mid-table and had no chance of the title, the top 4 wasn't a thing then so there really wasn't anything for us to ditch.


I think when people said anyone, they didn't literally mean anyone, that was just a manner of speakig, they meant anyone half decent who was able to make logical decisions and assess a players ability properly.

Which is fine, except every time I said "well, obviously that isn't true" they doubled down and told me to stop sucking Wenger's cock :rolleyes:
As I said, I wasn't expecting miracles from Arteta. I don't entirely disagree with some of the criticism being levelled at him but football fans have been criticising managers forever, even when things are generally going well, the slightest blip and the toys come out of the pram.
Is there someone available who would be a clear improvement? Emery was in theory a step up from Arteta and that didn't go well.

PS: I see WMUG has picked you up on the Wednesday game. That was a weird one. Boring boring Arsenal for something like 75 minutes then Campbell scored and all hell broke loose!