Non home grown

[Bumble]

We are only allowed to select 17 non home grown players in the Premier League squad. we currently have 19...ooo who to drop from
Leno, Runarsson
Soares, Gabriel, Luiz, Kolasinac, Mari, Mustafi, Sokratis, Tierney
Ceballos, Xhaka, Elneny, Partey, Ozil, Willian
Pepe, Lacazette and Aubameyang

Ozil should be one... tricky which dross defender to be the other one. Mustafi, Sokratis or Kolasinac? Although interesting last season probably been Elneny but he seems to be doing ok. So perhaps it will be Sokratis.

[Gooner23]

I think Sokratis will be a dead cert as we just don't need 8 centre backs. Really surprised he didn't move on. Perhaps he will just go out on loan to a Championship club until January.

[Niall_Quinn]

Still have until the 16th to sort this out domestically.

[Marc Overmars]

Ozil and Sok.

[Mac76]

mustafi is a must for me - oh the joy of knowing we won't see him all season :pray:

[Globalgunner]

There are at least 5 players on that list Id be ecstatic not to see in an Arsenal shirt again.

[Marc Overmars]

So many we need to shift but they’re just happy to give up on their careers for easy money. At least Mkhi had the decency to mutually terminate his contract so he could play elsewhere.

If Ozil isn’t going to be involved anymore then at the very least he should be stuck in the reserves/u21’s. He can’t just be allowed to do fuck all. Does he even train?

[Mac76]

So many we need to shift but they’re just happy to give up on their careers for easy money. At least Mkhi had the decency to mutually terminate his contract so he could play elsewhere.

If Ozil isn’t going to be involved anymore then at the very least he should be stuck in the reserves/u21’s. He can’t just be allowed to do fuck all. Does he even train?

he obvs doesn't train hard enough as that seems to be Arteta's non-negotiable - i'm convinced it's why Xhaka was (until recently) always on the team sheet, but clearly even Arteta now realises he's not very good

[Globalgunner]

he obvs doesn't train hard enough as that seems to be Arteta's non-negotiable - i'm convinced it's why Xhaka was (until recently) always on the team sheet, but clearly even Arteta now realises he's not very good

Funny that because Xhaka is the mirror image of what Arteta used to be for us. Good news is that a new TW will open in less than 50 days. Those he wants out should be left in no doubt that they need to get their agents working overtime to find new pastures. Ozil Im sure will not even lift a finger to make a call. At this point, he is nothing more than a parasite, a fkn leech. Thanks Wenger.

[Mac76]

Funny that because Xhaka is the mirror image of what Arteta used to be for us. Good news is that a new TW will open in less than 50 days. Those he wants out should be left in no doubt that they need to get their agents working overtime to find new pastures. Ozil Im sure will not even lift a finger to make a call. At this point, he is nothing more than a parasite, a fkn leech. Thanks Wenger.

it was actually Gazidis who was largely responsible for that terrible Ozil deal

also i think Arteta was a much more refined player than Xhaka, who's just a big slow mroon who occasionally gets away with a long-range forward pass but can't defend to save his life

[I am invisible]

Are we limited to two that we can’t register?

Pretty certain it will be Özil and Sokratis. If it were up to me I’d ditch Kola instead of Sok and remove any trace of that Özil sphere of influence from the group, but we have about 700 CBs at the club, and Kola might be seen as more valuable as cover for Tierney, if plan to keep playing 4 at the back (though he’s log at it).

[Ollie the Optimist]

Does the home grown rule only apply to English players or UK ? I would have expected Tinery to be classed as home grown but maybe not

[I am invisible]

it was actually Gazidis who was largely responsible for that terrible Ozil deal

also i think Arteta was a much more refined player than Xhaka, who's just a big slow mroon who occasionally gets away with a long-range forward pass but can't defend to save his life
Biggest issue with Xhaka is we’ve needed him to be our DM when he’s not really got the raw athleticism to cover the ground and beat the press - gets pressured into a lot of mistakes which end up being costly because of how deep he is. I wonder if we might now see him used a little further forward, if he has Partey alongside / behind him? Kind of how he plays for the Swiss with Zakaria behind him?

[I am invisible]

Does the home grown rule only apply to English players or UK ? I would have expected Tinery to be classed as home grown but maybe not
Can be any nationality, as long as they’ve trained for at least 3 years at a club (or clubs) within the same national association between the ages of 15 and 21.

Luckily we signed Saliba last summer, so I think he just squeaks in!

[selassie]

Ozil and Sok.

P.S. To be brutally honest, I don't understand why we can't terminate Ozil's contract by mutual consent and pay him off, is that any different to excluding him in this way? aside from the fact we are telling him you are gone for good, go play Fortnite elsewhere.

[Marc Overmars]

Ozil and Sok.

P.S. To be brutally honest, I don't understand why we can't terminate Ozil's contract by mutual consent and pay him off, is that any different to excluding him in this way? aside from the fact we are telling him you are gone for good, go play Fortnite elsewhere.

I think mutual consent means both parties have to agree to a termination, like Mkhi who was on a big deal but knew he had no future here so he just made it easy for himself to move on by ending the deal with the club.

Ozil has made it clear he’s sticking around until his contract expires, which is most likely him sticking a middle finger up to the board. I think his Gunnersaurus message today confirms his omission isn’t really anything to do with football and more to do with a feud with those above.

He’s probably given up on his career anyway and the lack of interest shown in him is telling. It would cost an 18m lump sum to get rid of him which isn’t great for cash flow, so he’s sadly just going to remain the elephant in the room for the rest of the year.

[Niall_Quinn]

Shame, because he's the most talented player we have. I have a dim opinion of both Ozil and Arsenal on this one. There's enough cash floating around for people to just do their jobs. If egos are getting in the way of that then it's pretty much a big fuck-off to the people who pay the wages, the fansRwanda.

[Marc Overmars]

Ozil not in the Europa squad. :lol:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12098758/mesut-ozil-arsenal-set-to-leave-midfielder-out-of-europa-league-squad

[Gooner23]

The Ozil cult fans are convinced its a political decision based on his China comments.

Personally I think its more likely he just isn't prepared to do what Arteta wants from all his players.

[Marc Overmars]

A lot of people seem to think it’s also to do with him not agreeing to the covid pay cut, which undermined Arteta as it was him who requested the squad to do it.

Then again Emery never fancied him either, so maybe he’s just a bit shit and got away with being Wenger’s pet for so long.

[Letters]

A lot of people seem to think it’s also to do with him not agreeing to the covid pay cut, which undermined Arteta as it was him who requested the squad to do it.

Then again Emery never fancied him either, so maybe he’s just a bit shit and got away with being Wenger’s pet for so long.

From what I heard, Ozil wanted some assurance that the pay cut would guarantee no job losses.
And they've made cuts anyway so as much as I think it's obscene how much footballers get at the best of time, especially when they weren't doing their jobs, I don't think he is entirely to blame here (as much as I slated him at the time).

Oh who knows what's going on but it does feel like the whole thing has been very badly mismanaged by Arsenal. A colleague speculated to me that Ozil has mental health issues. Possible. I guess in time we'll get various people's accounts and try and piece it together.

[Mac76]

i think he just knows he's one of Arsenal's best players, he's won the World Cup so why should he prove that to anyone in training over and over again?

i get Arteta's trying to establish his authority but tbh he shouldn't have got involved with that pay cut issue and Letters is right, i think job gaurantees for Arsenal staff is what Ozil sought to have guarantees on and he's been proven to be right

i don't really like 'mental health issues' being bandied around all the time but it wouldn't surprise me if he's developed something of a bunker mentality given Ozil has come in for some stick re his being associated with Erdogan and also from Germany fans

Yes, Wenger did give him more freedom but let's not forget there were times udner Wenger that Ozil played extremely welll

[GP]

I'll be so glad to see the back of him.

A worldie on his day, that day was a long time ago.

[KSE Comedy Club]

From what I heard, Ozil wanted some assurance that the pay cut would guarantee no job losses.
And they've made cuts anyway so as much as I think it's obscene how much footballers get at the best of time, especially when they weren't doing their jobs, I don't think he is entirely to blame here (as much as I slated him at the time).

Oh who knows what's going on but it does feel like the whole thing has been very badly mismanaged by Arsenal. A colleague speculated to me that Ozil has mental health issues. Possible. I guess in time we'll get various people's accounts and try and piece it together.

So we are all agreed then

Rather than take that risk, Ozil offered to do nothing and keep 100% of his wages anyway.

What a cunt.

[Letters]

It sounds - although who knows really - that he wanted some assurances that if he took a pay cut then it would mean other staff wouldn't lose their jobs.
Meanwhile the Arsenal powers that be sacked Gunnersaurus on the same day they activated Partey's £45m release clause

[Niall_Quinn]

From what I heard, Ozil wanted some assurance that the pay cut would guarantee no job losses.
And they've made cuts anyway so as much as I think it's obscene how much footballers get at the best of time, especially when they weren't doing their jobs, I don't think he is entirely to blame here (as much as I slated him at the time).

Oh who knows what's going on but it does feel like the whole thing has been very badly mismanaged by Arsenal. A colleague speculated to me that Ozil has mental health issues. Possible. I guess in time we'll get various people's accounts and try and piece it together.

So his offer to pay the dinosaur would fall in line with that thinking. The club has accepted the pay cuts, and then sacked the little guy. Ozil steps up and offers to pay the little guy, effectively taking a pay cut.

I'd rather it was done Ozil's way tbf.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not that I think any of this should have anything to do with what happens on the training ground and on the pitch. Whatever's going on, and whatever the degree attributable to Ozil's actions, it's an absurd failure by the club to have such a highly paid player sitting out his contract. I would think there must be something in a standard contract that allows the club to cut its losses if a player refuses to play. Or refuses to train. So what's going on? Why are we going into another season with this situation unresolved? Even if we'd loaned him out and offered to pay half the wages it would have solved this home grown issue and cut the wage bill. Why couldn't they even achieve that? Is there really no club out there that would refuse Ozil on half pay with no obligations?

[Marc Overmars]

I’m sure we could find a taker if we took most of the hit, however Ozil out of principle has decided to hold the club to his contract, which he is of course perfectly entitled to do. It’s pretty much a ‘fuck you’ as far as I can see, he knows he’s not in breach of contract so the club are powerless to do anything.

Apparently we want to reach a settlement with him but he won’t leave for a penny less than his contract.

[Mac76]

Not that I think any of this should have anything to do with what happens on the training ground and on the pitch. Whatever's going on, and whatever the degree attributable to Ozil's actions, it's an absurd failure by the club to have such a highly paid player sitting out his contract. I would think there must be something in a standard contract that allows the club to cut its losses if a player refuses to play. Or refuses to train. So what's going on? Why are we going into another season with this situation unresolved? Even if we'd loaned him out and offered to pay half the wages it would have solved this home grown issue and cut the wage bill. Why couldn't they even achieve that? Is there really no club out there that would refuse Ozil on half pay with no obligations?

he's not refusing to play or to train - Arteta's just too busy showing how big his willy is by sidelining him because he won't run around traffic cones for long enough

[Niall_Quinn]

I’m sure we could find a taker if we took most of the hit, however Ozil out of principle has decided to hold the club to his contract, which he is of course perfectly entitled to do. It’s pretty much a ‘fuck you’ as far as I can see, he knows he’s not in breach of contract so the club are powerless to do anything.

Apparently we want to reach a settlement with him but he won’t leave for a penny less than his contract.

Do we know that for sure? I haven't been following it in any detail. Has Ozil stated he's holding the club to the contract on principle? Which, of course, is his right to do. When you see gash like Elneny on the pitch, when you see the general lack of creativity throughout the whole team, has Ozil really been so awful in training he can't break into this rather mediocre set up? Even as a benchwarmer for a non-event like the Europa or Cuckoo Cup? Ozil's pretty much destroying his career and reputation by doing this, if what you say is true. As a professional sportsman he's thrown all that aside, thrown his reputation in the bin, for some principle? What principle? What's his argument? Do we know?

Meanwhile, shouldn't somebody at the club have to explain why the highest paid player isn't involved in any way? I know they're not obliged to, but isn't it in their interests to explain if they aren't the ones causing the problem? It looks just as bad for them.

[Marc Overmars]

The 2 points that seem have been speculated the most are that he went against Arteta’s pay cut instruction and his defence of the treatment of Chinese Muslims, which the club had to distance themselves from because of their business interests there. There was also a suggestion he gets appearance bonuses too, so that would explain why he’s left out altogether.

The people who gave him this contract are no longer here. The guys who replaced them didn’t think he was worth it and have probably had him marked for a long time now, as getting rid of him frees up a lot of money that can be put to better use. There’s obviously been a huge falling out somewhere and I think Ozil has just decided to make life difficult for the club for the sake of it, by putting his personal issues above his career. He knows he can’t be touched legally as long as continues to turn up for training.

It’s nothing to do with football IMO because you can’t look at our squad and think Ozil doesn’t have the ability to at least make the bench. It’s a sad and embarrassing mess for everyone involved and I’m sure when he does finally do one we’ll get the full story.

That’s my take on it anyway.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'd have had a degree of sympathy with the club, if the reasons you give are true. Bringing politics into the mix when you represent a global organisation isn't smart, even if it might be principled. That's not his role, that shouldn't be his focus. But that's nullified by Arsenal's decision to openly support a racist, marxist organisation and push it in everyone's face. They can't now criticise him for doing what they're doing themselves, to a much worse degree. And he was right about the pay-cuts, wasn't he? He asked the club to justify the demand. And now, with the club sacking non-playing staff while ponying up a likely mega-deal for Partey, Ozil has been vindicated again.

If what you speculate is true, and it sounds plausible at least, seems to me Arsenal Football Club is one, giant, collective hypocrite. Do as we say, not as we do. Let us virtue signal while you pay for it.

[dostoy]

I can't wait until he leaves but that will be on the last day of his contract.

He must have cost over 100 million if you add it all up and Wenger and Gazidis should be ashamed for letting his contract run down and then giving him a massive new one.

I have never known such a pathetic footballer/man as Ozil, he is gutless, soulless, useless and he doesn't give a shit.

What club would want him ?

When he leaves it will be an incredibly good day, good riddance to a massive piece of shit.

[Globalgunner]

He is useless on the pitch as well as off it. In his mind he thinks he has nothing to prove but that is exactly the wrong thinking and why even at his best he was a 3rd tier player with Messi/Ronaldo being top tier. Players should have something to prove every minute of the playing day. Our indolent maestro thinks he can put in a 10 minute shift every match. Job done.
He will be remembered by many as a money sucking leech with no integrity. Worst of all. He doesn't even want to play football any more. See what Mkhitaryan did. That is a professional. Fk Ozil

[Niall_Quinn]

Where are we getting all this from? Has Ozil said any of this? That he doesn't want to play football?

We just heard Jack Wilshere's parting shots to WHU. He said he's been fit, he's been training, he's put the effort in but was never given a chance. Maybe that's just Jack's opinion. Maybe it's true. Maybe it's more complicated than that.

Unless I've missed Ozil claiming he's done with football and wants to hang on for the money, which would of course be despicable, it seems weird he'd just toss it all in for a comfortable two years. Because if it's true, these are his last 2 years earning because no other club would risk it. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Marc Overmars]

If he was bothered about playing he surely would have moved on by now? He must have been categorically told that he doesn’t have a future here, so why stick around like bad smell? It can only be to milk his contract because he knows this is as good as it’ll get, unless he goes to China or the Middle East.

The lack of interest shown in him should tell us where his star lies. Everyone else must think he’s done too.

[Globalgunner]

Well it makes sense to Ozil. Is he agitating for a move? No. He wants to sit on his contract and pipe up occasionally with a few F.U's to his current employers. That's certainly not how to get on the playing roster

[selassie]

The Ozil cult fans are convinced its a political decision based on his China comments.

Personally I think its more likely he just isn't prepared to do what Arteta wants from all his players.

Yep.

Maybe our manager isn’t entirely happy with his output and effort given he earns 350k per week, how anyone can even find words to defend him is beyond me, he’s a con man, he’s even managed to dupe people into defending him, BMT.

[selassie]

So his offer to pay the dinosaur would fall in line with that thinking. The club has accepted the pay cuts, and then sacked the little guy. Ozil steps up and offers to pay the little guy, effectively taking a pay cut.

I'd rather it was done Ozil's way tbf.

Özil is employed by Arsenal Football club, why should he decide the financial strategy of the club? I mean he earns 350k per week to sit at home, I would have thought he’d keep his opinions to himself! 🤣

[Mac76]

Özil is employed by Arsenal Football club, why should he decide the financial strategy of the club? I mean he earns 350k per week to sit at home, I would have thought he’d keep his opinions to himself! ��

but (FFS) he doesn't choose to sit at home, it's Arteta that's not picking him

Ozil would play every game if he was picked, but Arteta's clearly got the hump becuase Ozil can't be arsed running round traffic cones and why should he when he's got more talent in his little finger than 1,000 Xhakas?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I can think of quite a lot of reasons why he should follow his manager's instructions.

[Niall_Quinn]

Özil is employed by Arsenal Football club, why should he decide the financial strategy of the club? I mean he earns 350k per week to sit at home, I would have thought he’d keep his opinions to himself! 🤣

Yeah but I didn't say Ozil should run the club's finances. I said he's entitled to know how the club is going to spend his money had he agreed to a pay cut. And he is. They could be buying yachts or ranches for all he knows.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ozil is clearly content to Bogarde his way out of the club, talent is a waste of time with an attitude like that.

You can't really say we've missed him since we've adopted pubbing our way to victories.

[selassie]

but (FFS) he doesn't choose to sit at home, it's Arteta that's not picking him

Ozil would play every game if he was picked, but Arteta's clearly got the hump becuase Ozil can't be arsed running round traffic cones and why should he when he's got more talent in his little finger than 1,000 Xhakas?

Look I’m in no way privy to what is going on with Özil and the club. From what we have seen in the media and some of it might be deliberately planted...I dunno. But the feeling amongst the past 3 managers (Emery, Freddie & Arteta) is that Özil doesn’t put in a shift, be it in training or in matches.

Ozil is without doubt a supremely talented player and one of the best of his generation, when he’s on it he is a world class player, but his last 3 managers have felt he is not on it and left him out.

Ozil is finished at Arsenal, his career is done here, it might be done completely.

Him posting on insta about the mascot was ridiculous, yes we all know there are problems between Özil and the club.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think the club firing the mascot was far more ridiculous. It's tone deaf. As football executives and players battle about their share of billions in TV deals and contracts - an extra million here, a lost million there, a swelling trove of millions or the tragedy of a mere heap of millions when it could have been a mountain - the fucking mascot of 27 years gets sacked. Switches me off to the club even more than I already was. And football in general. I really can't think of a single person at that club, or any, to be admired. Can you?

Tell me, who is it the kids are supposed to be looking up to today? Is there one name from all of them?

[Mac76]

Auba - he's always smiling, always working for the team, always scoring goals, and re-signed to a club that isn't in the CL, thus harming his own career to be at a club he really likes

and yes yes he gets paid money - all footballers do, get with the programme

[I am invisible]

What I don't get with Gunnersaurus, may he rest in peace, is why he seemed to be in a second round of redundancies that only included him? Why not just sneak it in with everyone else at the start of the summer? At least that way you could have argued that, collectively, it added up to a saving of a couple of mil - now it just looks like a really petty move to save a poxy 30k.

Maybe he just got overlooked because he's in an obscure department of one or something?

[Özim]

I don't agree with Ozil sitting there and taking the money, however it's clear there some sort of issue and that he feels poorly treated by the the club as he's insisted he's not leaving and why should he he's under contract, he doesn't have to.

I also personally don't like Artetas player management, there was Martinelli of course who he was reluctant to play until he had little choice, he then produced some goals and very good displays and couldn't then be dropped, then lockdown happened and low and behold he's dropped again and then he gets injured.

The there's Pepe who cost us a lot of money and yet plays a bit part role, even though he's a goal threat.

Then there's Mustafi who he insisted on playing for a while and Luiz who he resigned despite his costly errors last season, it doesn't end there either now we have Saliba, a guy good enough to play in Ligue 1 where he was very highly rated (Spurs wanted him to) and is apparently very good indeed and cost us 30 million. Apparently he's not even good enough for the League cup or EL, but players like Holding, Luiz and Mustafi are, it's a shocker to be honest. Let's not forget his like for Xhaka either or the way he cut Guendouzi out completely.

Ozil doesn't play but then Arsenal is willing to accept a pay cut if it protects jobs (pretty admirable and clever if you ask me), he clearly doesn't trust the club, can't blame him either, the got rid of a number of low paid employees, then to add insult to injury, sack Gunnersaurus who had been there for 27 years and not long after pay Atletico 45 million (+agent fees and wages) to sign Partey.

Pretty low if you ask me, they could have even given Partey 249k a week instead of 250k a week and kept Gunnersaurus, Ozil then offers to pay the guys wage out of his salary (again pretty admirable) and the club then say "oh, he'll come back when fans come back" because they realised how bad they looked.

I don't agree with Ozil about sitting there and not playing as I said, but he was 100% in the right in the way he negotiated the possible pay cut and with what he offered to do for Gunnersaurus.

[Letters]

Pretty low if you ask me, they could have even given Partey 249k a week instead of 250k a week and kept Gunnersaurus, Ozil then offers to pay the guys wage out of his salary (again pretty admirable) and the club then say "oh, he'll come back when fans come back" because they realised how bad they looked.
What's Gunnersaurus's salary? A day of Ozil's pay a year tops? I think he might have just have muddled through.
IMO he did that as a pop at the club.
I don't blame Ozil entirely for this mess, there's definitely blame on both sides.

[Mac76]

I don't agree with Ozil sitting there and taking the money, however it's clear there some sort of issue and that he feels poorly treated by the the club as he's insisted he's not leaving and why should he he's under contract, he doesn't have to.

I also personally don't like Artetas player management, there was Martinelli of course who he was reluctant to play until he had little choice, he then produced some goals and very good displays and couldn't then be dropped, then lockdown happened and low and behold he's dropped again and then he gets injured.

The there's Pepe who cost us a lot of money and yet plays a bit part role, even though he's a goal threat.

Then there's Mustafi who he insisted on playing for a while and Luiz who he resigned despite his costly errors last season, it doesn't end there either now we have Saliba, a guy good enough to play in Ligue 1 where he was very highly rated (Spurs wanted him to) and is apparently very good indeed and cost us 30 million. Apparently he's not even good enough for the League cup or EL, but players like Holding, Luiz and Mustafi are, it's a shocker to be honest. Let's not forget his like for Xhaka either or the way he cut Guendouzi out completely.

Ozil doesn't play but then Arsenal is willing to accept a pay cut if it protects jobs (pretty admirable and clever if you ask me), he clearly doesn't trust the club, can't blame him either, the got rid of a number of low paid employees, then to add insult to injury, sack Gunnersaurus who had been there for 27 years and not long after pay Atletico 45 million (+agent fees and wages) to sign Partey.

Pretty low if you ask me, they could have even given Partey 249k a week instead of 250k a week and kept Gunnersaurus, Ozil then offers to pay the guys wage out of his salary (again pretty admirable) and the club then say "oh, he'll come back when fans come back" because they realised how bad they looked.

I don't agree with Ozil about sitting there and not playing as I said, but he was 100% in the right in the way he negotiated the possible pay cut and with what he offered to do for Gunnersaurus.

good summary, agree with all that :gp:

[Marc Overmars]

Ozil was paid an 8m loyalty bonus last month. :lol:

Might help explain why he wanted to stick around for his final year. What an utter waste of money, who would have known how much of a disaster giving him this contract would turn out to be.

[I am invisible]

I actually can’t remember a time in my life when I wasn’t talking about Mesut Özil any more.

[Mac76]

Ozil was paid an 8m loyalty bonus last month. :lol:

Might help explain why he wanted to stick around for his final year. What an utter waste of money, who would have known how much of a disaster giving him this contract would turn out to be.

anyone with a brain who knew you shouldn't just throw money at people - it was all just because Sanchez was sold and we didn't want to be seen to be losing two prime assets in one go, but we didn't need to pay him so much or for so long

[Niall_Quinn]

Ozil was paid an 8m loyalty bonus last month. :lol:

Might help explain why he wanted to stick around for his final year. What an utter waste of money, who would have known how much of a disaster giving him this contract would turn out to be.

Is that it now? The last transfusion? Or is this the contract that keeps on giving?

How have we agreed to sign a contract that awards bonuses to players that aren't playing? Loyalty? So they canned Gunnersaurus after 27 years and paid Ozil a "loyalty" bonus? No wonder he wanted to give some of the money back. I bet even he can't believe how shitty that contract is.

[Letters]

anyone with a brain who knew you shouldn't just throw money at people - it was all just because Sanchez was sold and we didn't want to be seen to be losing two prime assets in one go, but we didn't need to pay him so much or for so long

I'd forgotten about that but yeah, you're right. We threw trucks full of money at him so he didn't leave in the same window as Sanchez.
:doh:

[Marc Overmars]

It was a bonus written into the contract to reward him for seeing it out. Obviously the guys who gave him the deal felt like Ozil was going to be the cornerstone of this team for years to come.

Goes without saying the contract has aged horribly. :lol:

[I am invisible]

Is that it now? The last transfusion? Or is this the contract that keeps on giving?

How have we agreed to sign a contract that awards bonuses to players that aren't playing? Loyalty? So they canned Gunnersaurus after 27 years and paid Ozil a "loyalty" bonus? No wonder he wanted to give some of the money back. I bet even he can't believe how shitty that contract is.

I think he also gets "performance" bonuses if he "plays" on top of his "basic" £18.2m "salary" and "loyalty" bonuses.

At least we know how the offer to pay Gunnersaurus's salary* is being funded now.

*For as long as Özil is still employed by Arsenal FC.

[Niall_Quinn]

There's nothing like the satisfaction of a hard day's work and pay well earned.

[selassie]

Yeah but I didn't say Ozil should run the club's finances. I said he's entitled to know how the club is going to spend his money had he agreed to a pay cut. And he is. They could be buying yachts or ranches for all he knows.

Well he just received a 8million pound bonus, what do you think he should do with that?

[selassie]

I think he also gets "performance" bonuses if he "plays" on top of his "basic" £18.2m "salary" and "loyalty" bonuses.

At least we know how the offer to pay Gunnersaurus's salary* is being funded now.

*For as long as Özil is still employed by Arsenal FC.

:haha:

[selassie]

I think the club firing the mascot was far more ridiculous. It's tone deaf. As football executives and players battle about their share of billions in TV deals and contracts - an extra million here, a lost million there, a swelling trove of millions or the tragedy of a mere heap of millions when it could have been a mountain - the fucking mascot of 27 years gets sacked. Switches me off to the club even more than I already was. And football in general. I really can't think of a single person at that club, or any, to be admired. Can you?

Tell me, who is it the kids are supposed to be looking up to today? Is there one name from all of them?

What's ridiculous about sacking someone who is surplus to requirements right now? Or do you think the club should just pay the mascot for doing sweet FA? I mean they pay millions out to Ozil for doing sweet FA.

Do I admire anybody at the club? Well I admire Arteta for taking on the mess of a job and doing a pretty good job of it so far. I admire the likes of Auba, Saka and Ceballos for putting in good quality performances on a regular basis. I admire Maitland-Niles for his improvement.

The kids should be looking up to players like Saka, he's a great role model for young aspiring kids who want to make it at Arsenal and break into the National team No?

[Niall_Quinn]

Saka is definitely on the right path, working his way through the ranks. If all continues to plan he'll be a key player at Arsenal. Of course he's getting paid a fortune at his tender age to do it. And why not? Everyone else is. But whether every player being paid for success before they actually achieve it is something worth looking up to, I'm not so sure. Football, and everyone in it, has this whiff that's not entirely pleasant. A parade of excess. If we hadn't shelled out big on Saka's contract demands he'd have been off in a flash to somebody who would. We paid. He stayed. Admirable? By today's standard, perhaps. If 10 years down the road he's still here, having put in the performances, then we're talking. That'll be somebody to admire.

[selassie]

Saka is definitely on the right path, working his way through the ranks. If all continues to plan he'll be a key player at Arsenal. Of course he's getting paid a fortune at his tender age to do it. And why not? Everyone else is. But whether every player being paid for success before they actually achieve it is something worth looking up to, I'm not so sure. Football, and everyone in it, has this whiff that's not entirely pleasant. A parade of excess. If we hadn't shelled out big on Saka's contract demands he'd have been off in a flash to somebody who would. We paid. He stayed. Admirable? By today's standard, perhaps. If 10 years down the road he's still here, having put in the performances, then we're talking. That'll be somebody to admire.

I'd say he's a pretty key player already, he racked up a lot of assists and a few important goals last season, he's played at a very high level in multiple positions too.

Yes he gets paid a fortune to PLAY football.

Saka doesn't need to stick around at Arsenal to be admired, players can be admired if they carve out decent and hardworking careers at multiple clubs, as long as their conduct is above board then I don't see an issue with it.

P.S. Everybody has a price and a worth, whether it is in Football or Business, if you got offered a higher salary elsewhere I am pretty sure you would be off to that job too....why should it be any different for footballers?

Discussing the merits of whether he would or wouldn't have stayed is a waste of time because he signed the ting and he plays for us.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's why I didn't want Jack or Ramsey to go. For me, they are probably the last 2 Arsenal players who played for us. Hopefully Saka will be the next but we'll have to wait a while to see. AMN. Willock. Eddie. They all have a chance to carve out a place in club history rather than be travellers passing through. If you compare football before TV money came to football today, I can't see much that's positive. The fans have become less relevant as each year passes. It used to be about the link between the fans and the players, those were the names kids aspired and would grow up with. I was hoping corona might crash these clubs and players back to earth but, as recent on demand greed has shown, it's business as usual.

Nah. I can't get too excited about a league where even the fans now accept and understand it's all about the money and everything else only comes once that money is slapped down.

[selassie]

That's why I didn't want Jack or Ramsey to go. For me, they are probably the last 2 Arsenal players who played for us. Hopefully Saka will be the next but we'll have to wait a while to see. AMN. Willock. Eddie. They all have a chance to carve out a place in club history rather than be travellers passing through. If you compare football before TV money came to football today, I can't see much that's positive. The fans have become less relevant as each year passes. It used to be about the link between the fans and the players, those were the names kids aspired and would grow up with. I was hoping corona might crash these clubs and players back to earth but, as recent on demand greed has shown, it's business as usual.

Nah. I can't get too excited about a league where even the fans now accept and understand it's all about the money and everything else only comes once that money is slapped down.

So are you saying that the player has to be british to be admired? Many foreign players have had long careers with us, do they not count?

Society in general is f*cked, capitalism, social media, narcissist leaders....football is just part of society.

[Niall_Quinn]

So are you saying that the player has to be british to be admired? Many foreign players have had long careers with us, do they not count?

Society in general is f*cked, capitalism, social media, narcissist leaders....football is just part of society.

No. I never mentioned British. WTF? They're the last two who were here for a significant amount of time and made an impact, Theo too, I suppose. The last group you could sort of say was a settled team. Since then it has been player merry-go-round. Maybe Arteta will fix that, but I don't think football works that way any more.

However, as you mentioned it, I do think there should be many more British and many more local players in every team. But the money won't allow that either, because there's so much sloshing around the clubs can shop all over the world and, supposedly, pick the cream of the crop. I don't see it in the boring modern game tbh. And British players cost a fortune too now, even if they can't kick a ball.

The money has gone through the roof, the culture and entertainment and the sportsmanship has been the cost. I don't blame any player for being a mercenary in a league filled with mercenaries. It would be stupid not to take it if you can get it. But that doesn't make the whole thing worthy of admiration.

[selassie]

No. I never mentioned British. WTF? They're the last two who were here for a significant amount of time and made an impact, Theo too, I suppose. The last group you could sort of say was a settled team. Since then it has been player merry-go-round. Maybe Arteta will fix that, but I don't think football works that way any more.

However, as you mentioned it, I do think there should be many more British and many more local players in every team. But the money won't allow that either, because there's so much sloshing around the clubs can shop all over the world and, supposedly, pick the cream of the crop. I don't see it in the boring modern game tbh. And British players cost a fortune too now, even if they can't kick a ball.

The money has gone through the roof, the culture and entertainment and the sportsmanship has been the cost. I don't blame any player for being a mercenary in a league filled with mercenaries. It would be stupid not to take it if you can get it. But that doesn't make the whole thing worthy of admiration.

You only listed British players.

Bellerin has been here an age, as had Martinez. Prior to that Giroud, Kos, Monreal, Sagna etc

This isn't just related to football, it's society in general, companies all over the world both corporate and at a smaller scale hire people from all over the world.

Football isn't the root of all evil in this cold capitalist world, it's part of the problem.

[Niall_Quinn]

You only listed British players.

Bellerin has been here an age, as had Martinez. Prior to that Giroud, Kos, Monreal, Sagna etc

This isn't just related to football, it's society in general, companies all over the world both corporate and at a smaller scale hire people from all over the world.

Football isn't the root of all evil in this cold capitalist world, it's part of the problem.

I didn't say that football is the root of all evil. I said it's hardly something kids can look up to and admire. I listed a couple of notable players who were here from a young age and grew up with the club. And then Theo. Ramsey and Theo chose Arsenal when they had arguably better options for their first significant move. Jack was the closest we got to Adams. People really are hair trigger over this identity politics stuff these days.

[selassie]

I didn't say that football is the root of all evil. I said it's hardly something kids can look up to and admire. I listed a couple of notable players who were here from a young age and grew up with the club. And then Theo. Ramsey and Theo chose Arsenal when they had arguably better options for their first significant move. Jack was the closest we got to Adams. People really are hair trigger over this identity politics stuff these days.

That's your opinion and I don't agree with it.

No idea what you are talking about with this identity politics, I explained why I said what I said.

[Letters]

I didn't say that football is the root of all evil.
The love of football is the root of all evil.



(That is an excellent Biblical joke, although if I have to explain it, not so much)

[Niall_Quinn]

That's your opinion and I don't agree with it.

No idea what you are talking about with this identity politics, I explained why I said what I said.

That's fine, we don't agree. I checked with Boris and it's still allowed.

[selassie]

That's fine, we don't agree. I checked with Boris and it's still allowed.

Great

[Özim]

What's ridiculous about sacking someone who is surplus to requirements right now? Or do you think the club should just pay the mascot for doing sweet FA? I mean they pay millions out to Ozil for doing sweet FA.

I personally think that's exactly what we should be doing in this terrible time. We're a club owned by a billionaire, it's a drop in the ocean for him and morally it's the right thing to do, Gunnersaurus is a victim of circumstances and after 27 years of service he deserves better, the decision is made all the more ridiculous when we go out and spend 45 million not long after getting rid of him.

No excuse for me, it's a nasty thing to do by a club who care about one thing and one thing only, that's not the right way to run a company IMO, you can make money without stamping on the little man inthe process, this club has shown it's true colours with the redundancies and it's actions, everything is about money and it's no surprise we're failures on the pitch.


Do I admire anybody at the club? Well I admire Arteta for taking on the mess of a job and doing a pretty good job of it so far. I admire the likes of Auba, Saka and Ceballos for putting in good quality performances on a regular basis. I admire Maitland-Niles for his improvement.

The kids should be looking up to players like Saka, he's a great role model for young aspiring kids who want to make it at Arsenal and break into the National team No?

I'm not sure there's anyone we should admire, Arteta got a job at a big club (no other big club would have touched him let's be honest), earning big money, he'd have been crazy to turn it down so it's wasn't a hard decision.

As for the others, that's what they're paid for, paid handsomely for without having done much in many cases, it's not like it was 20-30 years ago where people played for the love of game, it's a different time when money talks.

There's nothing to admire in modern football IMO.

[Letters]

:(

A Zim post I pretty much entirely agree with.
It’s the end times.

[Mac76]

There's nothing to admire in modern football IMO.

Last season's home shirt was pretty good

[Letters]

Last season's home shirt was pretty good

:lol: True, tbf

[selassie]

I personally think that's exactly what we should be doing in this terrible time. We're a club owned by a billionaire, it's a drop in the ocean for him and morally it's the right thing to do, Gunnersaurus is a victim of circumstances and after 27 years of service he deserves better, the decision is made all the more ridiculous when we go out and spend 45 million not long after getting rid of him.

No excuse for me, it's a nasty thing to do by a club who care about one thing and one thing only, that's not the right way to run a company IMO, you can make money without stamping on the little man inthe process, this club has shown it's true colours with the redundancies and it's actions, everything is about money and it's no surprise we're failures on the pitch.



I'm not sure there's anyone we should admire, Arteta got a job at a big club (no other big club would have touched him let's be honest), earning big money, he'd have been crazy to turn it down so it's wasn't a hard decision.

As for the others, that's what they're paid for, paid handsomely for without having done much in many cases, it's not like it was 20-30 years ago where people played for the love of game, it's a different time when money talks.

There's nothing to admire in modern football IMO.

Gunnersaurus was made redundant, not sacked, there is a difference. Are you privy to the redundancy pay out he got? I am certainly not and it's why I have not joined in with the "Arsenal are so mean getting rid of people like this", moreover, they have released him temporarily until the COVID situation is sorted out...

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/11/paul-merson-says-some-of-thomas-parteys-arsenal-wages-should-have-gone-to-gunnersaurus-13403985/

The decision isn't ridiculous and why you and others are comparing us temporarily relieving the club mascot against signing a new player is beyond me. What do you suggest we do? Not invest in the team? Would you be happy with that if it meant we kept on certain staff paying them wages to sit at home? I don't even understand why they are linked...it makes no sense.

The point I was making about Arteta is admiring the work he has done so far given the difficult circumstances that have surrounded him taking on his first ever managerial job, money again has nothing to do with it. It's the personal circumstances and decisions he has made that I admire.

I don't admire the financial side of football at all so I get where you are coming from with that, but I also don't admire the financial side of many things these days so I term it as a problem with society, capitalism, everything has a price.

[Letters]

The decision isn't ridiculous and why you and others are comparing us temporarily relieving the club mascot against signing a new player is beyond me. What do you suggest we do? Not invest in the team? Would you be happy with that if it meant we kept on certain staff paying them wages to sit at home?

You could certainly make the argument that it makes business sense to stop paying certain staff - including Gunnersaurus - while for no fault of the club or the staff they can’t do their jobs right now.
So as a purely business decision it does make sense. But the furlough scheme is still open. Isn’t that an option? And why weren’t the playing staff furloughed? They weren’t able to do their jobs for months either. And is it really a choice between keeping those staff and strengthening the team?
How much could Gunnersaurus have been on? The optics of making Gunnersaurus redundant on the same day they activated Partey’s £45m release clause aren’t good.
It just feeds into the increasing disillusionment people have with football and clubs.

[selassie]

My point about Gunnersaurus is based around the fact that certain posters on here and people in the media are jumping up and down about a redundancy, temporary one at that without knowing the true facts at hand. Does anybody know what kind of financial severance package Gunnersaurus was given? I certainly don't and without these facts I think it's ignorant to jump up and down and point fingers.


The reason I have said the above is because a few of my friends were made redundant through COVID 19 but were given financial severance packages that equated to almost 2 years salaries with the maximum allowed tax free lump sum. I am not saying Arsenal did this with Gunnersaurus, but we just don't know, it's ignorant to start spouting without the details. The redundancy severance package he was given may well have been way above any furlough payment he would receive if he was kept on!


Not only that, but most of the articles relating to Arsenal temporarily relieving him of his duties, have been reported as that he was Sacked! He wasn't sacked! How ignorant can some people be, read the articles from the Athletic or the Guardian and it clearly states the situation in detail regarding relieving him of his duties. Arsenal have even said that it's a temporary measure and he will be back when things get back to normal...whatever normal will be in the future.


Also furlough scheme is not really an option for players at premier league clubs due to their high wages, see article below;


https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/can-footballers-be-furloughed-are-they-still-getting-paid/11xaxcgzaj28h13l9hy1zmbk6n


I think the optics of making Gunnersaurus redundant on the same day as activating Partey's release clause for the reasons i've given above are not linked and are irrelevant given nobody knows what kind of severance package Gunnersaurs was given. Gunnersaurus may actually be finanically better off now! So all this talk of disillusionment may be a waste of time given we do not know the financials behind the redundancies!


I also think Mesut Ozil's pathetic cheap shot at the club via Instagram regarding offering to pay Gunnersaurus's wages exposed Mesut for the complete tosser he is. This is a man who refused to take a paycut when all the other members of the team did, most of the other team members are on a quarter or less than what he earns. Not only that, but he happily picked up his 8million bonus in the midst of sitting at home doing sweet FA. Yet people still fell hook line and sinker for it, Ozil is a thief, a conman, he is the one we should be disillusioned with!

[Niall_Quinn]

In the end it's not about Gunnersaurus, is it? It's about a football club that's pretty grimy and has lost touch with the fans so, as you say yourself, it can submerge itself in the wider financial sewer for the benefit of the few. I can't say that applies to every club, I don't know. I suspect it does. All I can do it remark on how grubby Arsenal Football Club is. In general. On ALL matters.

This is supposed to be sport. Our escape from all that other shit. Naive, maybe, but it doesn't clean any hands.

[selassie]

In the end it's not about Gunnersaurus, is it? It's about a football club that's pretty grimy and has lost touch with the fans so, as you say yourself, it can submerge itself in the wider financial sewer for the benefit of the few. I can't say that applies to every club, I don't know. I suspect it does. All I can do it remark on how grubby Arsenal Football Club is. In general. On ALL matters.

This is supposed to be sport. Our escape from all that other shit. Naive, maybe, but it doesn't clean any hands.

If it’s about ALL matters related to Arsenal why not go and support another team that satisfies your morals?

[Mac76]

If it’s about ALL matters related to Arsenal why not go and support another team that satisfies your morals?

Millwall?

[Niall_Quinn]

If it’s about ALL matters related to Arsenal why not go and support another team that satisfies your morals?

Support another team? Why? I can barely bring myself to follow along with what's happening at a club I've supported to varying degrees for decades. What could I hope to find by starting again elsewhere, given the trajectory of football? Maybe a club down at the very grass roots? It's possible. But then the Covid shit. The game's dead really. For the fans at least. Players are all mostly shit, most of them can't kick a ball. Governing bodies are milking it to the most ludicrous degree. Greedy pigs in the boardrooms. Merchandising, more focus on international fan markets than the local area. Players jumping ship every 5 minutes. Screaming headlines, flashing graphics - when nothing has happened at all. Cheating as a virtue. Loyalty for a price.

You MIGHT get an odd moment once or twice in maybe a month of football where something happens on the pitch and it grabs your attention. Provides entertainment. Different if you are into it to a professional level I suppose, it might be fun then to be watching shape, triangles, pressing, blah. But managers like Pep turned all that shit into a modern art form that doesn't look anything like entertainment for the average fan. Boring. Expensive. Culturally and traditionally adrift. Tribally bereft. Brash, swirling, spinning, empty shell.

It's what becomes of excellence and passion and endeavour and competition when a bunch of leeches descend with their nest and rot a thing inside out. When results are measured on balance sheets. All that's left is inertia and a residue made up of a billion fans' loyalty once it has been squeezed and desiccated.

Then there are days when I really don't like the game at all. It comes from remembering what the game was and comparing it to what it is. Am I wrong?

For a younger fan, I can get why this may not be the case. It's about perception. If you were never aware of what something was then you might be able to accept and even enjoy what it has become. You say it's the world in general and you are probably right, which is sadder on a grand scale. Or, it could me me getting older and cynical. Trouble is, on those rare occasions when a football match somehow escapes its shroud I can still recognise it and enjoy it. Very rare though. Like a ghost.

[Özim]

Gunnersaurus was made redundant, not sacked, there is a difference. Are you privy to the redundancy pay out he got? I am certainly not and it's why I have not joined in with the "Arsenal are so mean getting rid of people like this", moreover, they have released him temporarily until the COVID situation is sorted out...

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/11/paul-merson-says-some-of-thomas-parteys-arsenal-wages-should-have-gone-to-gunnersaurus-13403985/

The decision isn't ridiculous and why you and others are comparing us temporarily relieving the club mascot against signing a new player is beyond me. What do you suggest we do? Not invest in the team? Would you be happy with that if it meant we kept on certain staff paying them wages to sit at home? I don't even understand why they are linked...it makes no sense.

The point I was making about Arteta is admiring the work he has done so far given the difficult circumstances that have surrounded him taking on his first ever managerial job, money again has nothing to do with it. It's the personal circumstances and decisions he has made that I admire.

I don't admire the financial side of football at all so I get where you are coming from with that, but I also don't admire the financial side of many things these days so I term it as a problem with society, capitalism, everything has a price.

Yes naturally because he did nothing wrong, that may be true but we do also know Arsenal are not exactly generous when it comes to money, it's now a ruthless business that seems to care about one thing, not the fans, not what happens on the pitch, just how much money can be made, so I personally doubt he got anything more than he was entitled to, certainly not the 2 years you mention, especially as they're clearly trying to cut costs

Treating your employees and being successful are not mutually exclusive, you can do both and certainly for someone who has worked here for 27 years it's morally the right thing to do, as for bringing him back, well I think that only came out once Ozil offered to pay his wages and made Arsenal look even worse than they did so for me it's an afterthought.

As for the money spent on transfers, it's all the same, if we have 45 million for transfers we certainly have 30k or whatever it is to suppose a long standing employee who has been loyal. As I said we're owned by a billionaire and it's a drop in the ocean for him, the damage he's done to him and the club is far worse than the salary they've saved, a mere tiny fraction of what the playing staff and manager etc earn.

You can look at it however you like, but IMO, it's plain wrong and just reflects terribly on the club, a club that many fans already think has just one focus.

[Mac76]

Yes naturally because he did nothing wrong, that may be true but we do also know Arsenal are not exactly generous when it comes to money, it's now a ruthless business that seems to care about one thing, not the fans, not what happens on the pitch, just how much money can be made, so I personally doubt he got anything more than he was entitled to, certainly not the 2 years you mention, especially as they're clearly trying to cut costs

Treating your employees and being successful are not mutually exclusive, you can do both and certainly for someone who has worked here for 27 years it's morally the right thing to do, as for bringing him back, well I think that only came out once Ozil offered to pay his wages and made Arsenal look even worse than they did so for me it's an afterthought.

As for the money spent on transfers, it's all the same, if we have 45 million for transfers we certainly have 30k or whatever it is to suppose a long standing employee who has been loyal. As I said we're owned by a billionaire and it's a drop in the ocean for him, the damage he's done to him and the club is far worse than the salary they've saved, a mere tiny fraction of what the playing staff and manager etc earn.

You can look at it however you like, but IMO, it's plain wrong and just reflects terribly on the club, a club that many fans already think has just one focus.

:gp:

[selassie]

Millwall?

:lol:

[selassie]

Yes naturally because he did nothing wrong, that may be true but we do also know Arsenal are not exactly generous when it comes to money, it's now a ruthless business that seems to care about one thing, not the fans, not what happens on the pitch, just how much money can be made, so I personally doubt he got anything more than he was entitled to, certainly not the 2 years you mention, especially as they're clearly trying to cut costs

Treating your employees and being successful are not mutually exclusive, you can do both and certainly for someone who has worked here for 27 years it's morally the right thing to do, as for bringing him back, well I think that only came out once Ozil offered to pay his wages and made Arsenal look even worse than they did so for me it's an afterthought.

As for the money spent on transfers, it's all the same, if we have 45 million for transfers we certainly have 30k or whatever it is to suppose a long standing employee who has been loyal. As I said we're owned by a billionaire and it's a drop in the ocean for him, the damage he's done to him and the club is far worse than the salary they've saved, a mere tiny fraction of what the playing staff and manager etc earn.

You can look at it however you like, but IMO, it's plain wrong and just reflects terribly on the club, a club that many fans already think has just one focus.

We know nothing of Arsenal's finances and what they do or do not give their staff, if you know please share the facts?

As I said in response to Letters's post we do not know what kind of financial severance package Gunnersaurus was given! All you are doing is speculating and you do not have one bit of factual evidence to support what you are stating.

You use the example of the transfer and then state about 30k for Gunnersaurus, for all we know Arsenal may have paid him off 100K! We don't know...so to complain from the rooftops about a situation you are not privy to is plain weird!

It's quite telling how quiet Gunnersaurus has been, maybe he his happy with his severance package considering Arsenal stated that he will be re-employed once things are back to normal!


My point about Gunnersaurus is based around the fact that certain posters on here and people in the media are jumping up and down about a redundancy, temporary one at that without knowing the true facts at hand. Does anybody know what kind of financial severance package Gunnersaurus was given? I certainly don't and without these facts I think it's ignorant to jump up and down and point fingers.


The reason I have said the above is because a few of my friends were made redundant through COVID 19 but were given financial severance packages that equated to almost 2 years salaries with the maximum allowed tax free lump sum. I am not saying Arsenal did this with Gunnersaurus, but we just don't know, it's ignorant to start spouting without the details. The redundancy severance package he was given may well have been way above any furlough payment he would receive if he was kept on!


Not only that, but most of the articles relating to Arsenal temporarily relieving him of his duties, have been reported as that he was Sacked! He wasn't sacked! How ignorant can some people be, read the articles from the Athletic or the Guardian and it clearly states the situation in detail regarding relieving him of his duties. Arsenal have even said that it's a temporary measure and he will be back when things get back to normal...whatever normal will be in the future.


Also furlough scheme is not really an option for players at premier league clubs due to their high wages, see article below;


https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/can-...h13l9hy1zmbk6n


I think the optics of making Gunnersaurus redundant on the same day as activating Partey's release clause for the reasons i've given above are not linked and are irrelevant given nobody knows what kind of severance package Gunnersaurs was given. Gunnersaurus may actually be finanically better off now! So all this talk of disillusionment may be a waste of time given we do not know the financials behind the redundancies!


I also think Mesut Ozil's pathetic cheap shot at the club via Instagram regarding offering to pay Gunnersaurus's wages exposed Mesut for the complete tosser he is. This is a man who refused to take a paycut when all the other members of the team did, most of the other team members are on a quarter or less than what he earns. Not only that, but he happily picked up his 8million bonus in the midst of sitting at home doing sweet FA. Yet people still fell hook line and sinker for it, Ozil is a thief, a conman, he is the one we should be disillusioned with!

[selassie]

Support another team? Why? I can barely bring myself to follow along with what's happening at a club I've supported to varying degrees for decades. What could I hope to find by starting again elsewhere, given the trajectory of football? Maybe a club down at the very grass roots? It's possible. But then the Covid shit. The game's dead really. For the fans at least. Players are all mostly shit, most of them can't kick a ball. Governing bodies are milking it to the most ludicrous degree. Greedy pigs in the boardrooms. Merchandising, more focus on international fan markets than the local area. Players jumping ship every 5 minutes. Screaming headlines, flashing graphics - when nothing has happened at all. Cheating as a virtue. Loyalty for a price.

You MIGHT get an odd moment once or twice in maybe a month of football where something happens on the pitch and it grabs your attention. Provides entertainment. Different if you are into it to a professional level I suppose, it might be fun then to be watching shape, triangles, pressing, blah. But managers like Pep turned all that shit into a modern art form that doesn't look anything like entertainment for the average fan. Boring. Expensive. Culturally and traditionally adrift. Tribally bereft. Brash, swirling, spinning, empty shell.

It's what becomes of excellence and passion and endeavour and competition when a bunch of leeches descend with their nest and rot a thing inside out. When results are measured on balance sheets. All that's left is inertia and a residue made up of a billion fans' loyalty once it has been squeezed and desiccated.

Then there are days when I really don't like the game at all. It comes from remembering what the game was and comparing it to what it is. Am I wrong?

For a younger fan, I can get why this may not be the case. It's about perception. If you were never aware of what something was then you might be able to accept and even enjoy what it has become. You say it's the world in general and you are probably right, which is sadder on a grand scale. Or, it could me me getting older and cynical. Trouble is, on those rare occasions when a football match somehow escapes its shroud I can still recognise it and enjoy it. Very rare though. Like a ghost.

I understand your point, but.....football / society in general has changed and for the worse IMO. Highlighting small points among the shit show of what happens today is kind of fruitless IMO.

We could complain all day every day about a multitude of things.

[Niall_Quinn]

I understand your point, but.....football / society in general has changed and for the worse IMO. Highlighting small points among the shit show of what happens today is kind of fruitless IMO.

We could complain all day every day about a multitude of things.

I do

[selassie]

I do

I've noticed ;)

[Özim]

We know nothing of Arsenal's finances and what they do or do not give their staff, if you know please share the facts?

As I said in response to Letters's post we do not know what kind of financial severance package Gunnersaurus was given! All you are doing is speculating and you do not have one bit of factual evidence to support what you are stating.

You use the example of the transfer and then state about 30k for Gunnersaurus, for all we know Arsenal may have paid him off 100K! We don't know...so to complain from the rooftops about a situation you are not privy to is plain weird!

It's quite telling how quiet Gunnersaurus has been, maybe he his happy with his severance package considering Arsenal stated that he will be re-employed once things are back to normal!

We can get a decent idea based on their previous behaviour, the way they conduct business and the fact they decided to make staff redundant when they didn't have to during a pandemic.

Ignoring that however, getting rid of someone who has worked for you for 27 years and then spending 45 million + fees and wages is just plain wrong, there's no defending it.

As for Gunnersaurus, well not everybody shouts it from the rooftops when they get made redundant, that's more something that happens in modern culture, so that's a moot point.

[selassie]

We can get a decent idea based on their previous behaviour, the way they conduct business and the fact they decided to make staff redundant when they didn't have to during a pandemic.

Ignoring that however, getting rid of someone who has worked for you for 27 years and then spending 45 million + fees and wages is just plain wrong, there's no defending it.

As for Gunnersaurus, well not everybody shouts it from the rooftops when they get made redundant, that's more something that happens in modern culture, so that's a moot point.

What previous behaviour?

Have you ever thought to consider the redundancy pay offs may have been much better than furlough offerings?

You do realize that Redundancy payouts can sometimes benefit people, especially redundancy payouts from corporate firms such as Arsenal.

Some people are actually better off if they are paid off with a full 12 months salary, with 30k of that salary being tax free!

Moreover, Gunnersaurus hasn't been permanently made redundant!

[Letters]

I think the optics of making Gunnersaurus redundant on the same day as activating Partey's release clause for the reasons i've given above are not linked and are irrelevant given nobody knows what kind of severance package Gunnersaurs was given. Gunnersaurus may actually be finanically better off now! So all this talk of disillusionment may be a waste of time given we do not know the financials behind the redundancies!

When I talk about optics I mean how it looks. And how it looks is that they are driving trucks of money up to Ozil's house and to Atletico Madrid to get Partey while shitting on the little man, the man who has quietly worked for the club for decades and whose salary is trivial compared with the amounts they're spunking elsewhere. You do make a good point about his redundancy pay, he might actually have done pretty well out of this but people are fed up of these prima-donna, here today, gone tomorrow footballers getting obscene amounts of money. Especially when they're not fit to lace the boots of some of our best players. It just feels increasingly like clubs have lost any connection with their fans or the "common man", we identify a lot more with the Gunnersaurus dude than we do these mercenary footballers. So when we see him getting shafted (again, I agree he might not have been, but that's how it looks) then it doesn't come across well. At best doing it on the same day was tone deaf.


I also think Mesut Ozil's pathetic cheap shot at the club via Instagram regarding offering to pay Gunnersaurus's wages exposed Mesut for the complete tosser he is. This is a man who refused to take a paycut when all the other members of the team did,

From what I understand Ozil asked for certain assurances before agreeing a pay cut. What are the club going to do with that money? Are they going to assure that none of the non-playing staff will get made redundant? Arsenal refused to give those assurances so Ozil told them to get stuffed. People are disillusioned with Ozil but they're disillusioned with lots of things in the modern game. Arsenal have not covered themselves in glory with any of this.

[Özim]

What previous behaviour?

Have you ever thought to consider the redundancy pay offs may have been much better than furlough offerings?

You do realize that Redundancy payouts can sometimes benefit people, especially redundancy payouts from corporate firms such as Arsenal.

Some people are actually better off if they are paid off with a full 12 months salary, with 30k of that salary being tax free!

Moreover, Gunnersaurus hasn't been permanently made redundant!

The thing is though they didn't need to furlough him, they have enough money as demonstrated by the 45 million they spent.

I would hardly call redundancy a benefit, yes some people accept voluntary redundancy, perhaps realising their days are numbered and they'd better take what they can get, or perhaps they are ready to retire or to have a change, but what happens if you take the money then 2 years later you still haven't found a new job? It also creates uncertainty in your life because you don't have a regular income, you won't find too many people who will paint redundancy as beneficial to be honest, most people will class redundancy as a negative (there's always anomalies but that's generally the case).

Well he has now that Ozil offered to pay his salary, but if they are paying him handsomely and he'll be back in a year why make him redundant at all, it would surely cost they more in the scenario you painted?

I suspect the club are saving a fair amount and he probably didn't get a lot.

[Özim]

When I talk about optics I mean how it looks. And how it looks is that they are driving trucks of money up to Ozil's house and to Atletico Madrid to get Partey while shitting on the little man, the man who has quietly worked for the club for decades and whose salary is trivial compared with the amounts they're spunking elsewhere. You do make a good point about his redundancy pay, he might actually have done pretty well out of this but people are fed up of these prima-donna, here today, gone tomorrow footballers getting obscene amounts of money. Especially when they're not fit to lace the boots of some of our best players. It just feels increasingly like clubs have lost any connection with their fans or the "common man", we identify a lot more with the Gunnersaurus dude than we do these mercenary footballers. So when we see him getting shafted (again, I agree he might not have been, but that's how it looks) then it doesn't come across well. At best doing it on the same day was tone deaf.



From what I understand Ozil asked for certain assurances before agreeing a pay cut. What are the club going to do with that money? Are they going to assure that none of the non-playing staff will get made redundant? Arsenal refused to give those assurances so Ozil told them to get stuffed. People are disillusioned with Ozil but they're disillusioned with lots of things in the modern game. Arsenal have not covered themselves in glory with any of this.

Pretty much agree with much of this :faint: :lol:, still doubt he did that well out of redundancy knowing Arsenal, I think they'd pay what they have to, it seems to be how the club operates these days, or at least it's the impression they give!

Also think regarding the pay cut that Ozil was right to make a stand, the cost cuts should have been used to protect jobs, not to go in someone elses back pocket, I think footballers are overpaid but after all the club agreed to this so if they ask them to take a pay cut in a time like this they're entitled to ask that the money be spent in the appropriate way.

[Letters]

I think selassie has a point about redundancy. I know people who have cartwheeled out of the door of my organisation, they're either getting on and it's a way for them to retire early or they fancy a career break and they get enough to not work for a while and take stock.
If you can't get a job after 2 years then you can't be that employable, although when your CV is
"1993-2020 - Football Mascot"
Then you might struggle :lol:

It's just the way it looks and the way clubs have treated playing staff and non playing staff differently.

[WMUG]

Holy shit he's been the mascot since the year I was born.

Does that mean I'm gonna die soon? :unsure:

[Letters]

Holy shit he's been the mascot since the year I was born.

Does that mean I'm gonna die soon? :unsure:

Second WAAAAAVE!

[Niall_Quinn]

Holy shit he's been the mascot since the year I was born.

Does that mean I'm gonna die soon? :unsure:

Yes, I'm afraid so. But we'll bring you back once covid is over.

You can trust us.

[fakeyank]

My point about Gunnersaurus is based around the fact that certain posters on here and people in the media are jumping up and down about a redundancy, temporary one at that without knowing the true facts at hand. Does anybody know what kind of financial severance package Gunnersaurus was given? I certainly don't and without these facts I think it's ignorant to jump up and down and point fingers.


The reason I have said the above is because a few of my friends were made redundant through COVID 19 but were given financial severance packages that equated to almost 2 years salaries with the maximum allowed tax free lump sum. I am not saying Arsenal did this with Gunnersaurus, but we just don't know, it's ignorant to start spouting without the details. The redundancy severance package he was given may well have been way above any furlough payment he would receive if he was kept on!


Not only that, but most of the articles relating to Arsenal temporarily relieving him of his duties, have been reported as that he was Sacked! He wasn't sacked! How ignorant can some people be, read the articles from the Athletic or the Guardian and it clearly states the situation in detail regarding relieving him of his duties. Arsenal have even said that it's a temporary measure and he will be back when things get back to normal...whatever normal will be in the future.


Also furlough scheme is not really an option for players at premier league clubs due to their high wages, see article below;


https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/can-footballers-be-furloughed-are-they-still-getting-paid/11xaxcgzaj28h13l9hy1zmbk6n


I think the optics of making Gunnersaurus redundant on the same day as activating Partey's release clause for the reasons i've given above are not linked and are irrelevant given nobody knows what kind of severance package Gunnersaurs was given. Gunnersaurus may actually be finanically better off now! So all this talk of disillusionment may be a waste of time given we do not know the financials behind the redundancies!


I also think Mesut Ozil's pathetic cheap shot at the club via Instagram regarding offering to pay Gunnersaurus's wages exposed Mesut for the complete tosser he is. This is a man who refused to take a paycut when all the other members of the team did, most of the other team members are on a quarter or less than what he earns. Not only that, but he happily picked up his 8million bonus in the midst of sitting at home doing sweet FA. Yet people still fell hook line and sinker for it, Ozil is a thief, a conman, he is the one we should be disillusioned with!

:gp:

Agree with everything. Ozil is a fucking fraud. He should move to Turkey and start living with his lover Erdogan. Spare us your holier than thou attitude.

[selassie]

When I talk about optics I mean how it looks. And how it looks is that they are driving trucks of money up to Ozil's house and to Atletico Madrid to get Partey while shitting on the little man, the man who has quietly worked for the club for decades and whose salary is trivial compared with the amounts they're spunking elsewhere. You do make a good point about his redundancy pay, he might actually have done pretty well out of this but people are fed up of these prima-donna, here today, gone tomorrow footballers getting obscene amounts of money. Especially when they're not fit to lace the boots of some of our best players. It just feels increasingly like clubs have lost any connection with their fans or the "common man", we identify a lot more with the Gunnersaurus dude than we do these mercenary footballers. So when we see him getting shafted (again, I agree he might not have been, but that's how it looks) then it doesn't come across well. At best doing it on the same day was tone deaf.



From what I understand Ozil asked for certain assurances before agreeing a pay cut. What are the club going to do with that money? Are they going to assure that none of the non-playing staff will get made redundant? Arsenal refused to give those assurances so Ozil told them to get stuffed. People are disillusioned with Ozil but they're disillusioned with lots of things in the modern game. Arsenal have not covered themselves in glory with any of this.

So you are talking about perception? How it looked to the blind man?

Without the finer details...of which some points I have raised such as redundancy payouts I think it's a discussion / debate that is a moot point.

As I have said on numerous occasions, he may not have actually been shafted! He may be financially better off and don't forget he will be coming back into his role once things get back to normal, so essentially he has been temporarily relieved of his duties.

[selassie]

Pretty much agree with much of this :faint: :lol:, still doubt he did that well out of redundancy knowing Arsenal, I think they'd pay what they have to, it seems to be how the club operates these days, or at least it's the impression they give!

Also think regarding the pay cut that Ozil was right to make a stand, the cost cuts should have been used to protect jobs, not to go in someone elses back pocket, I think footballers are overpaid but after all the club agreed to this so if they ask them to take a pay cut in a time like this they're entitled to ask that the money be spent in the appropriate way.

Until you have the facts it's a conversation based on opinion! It's irrelevant!

P.S. The players have no rights whatsoever in regards to asking or directing the club to spend the money in the way they want. It's not how things work mate.

[Letters]

As I have said on numerous occasions, he may not have actually been shafted! He may be financially better off.
And I've agreed.
But what's the headline going to be?

[selassie]

And I've agreed.
But what's the headline going to be?

Classic politician response from Letters ;)

[Niall_Quinn]

Justice for Dinosaur One!

[selassie]

Justice for Dinosaur One!

:lol:

[Özim]

So you are talking about perception? How it looked to the blind man?

Without the finer details...of which some points I have raised such as redundancy payouts I think it's a discussion / debate that is a moot point.

As I have said on numerous occasions, he may not have actually been shafted! He may be financially better off and don't forget he will be coming back into his role once things get back to normal, so essentially he has been temporarily relieved of his duties.

We're never going to know the facts though, but generally speaking redundancy is something people prefer to avoid on the whole.

Well Arsenal wanted him to take a pay cut, they had no right to ask that either as he's contracted to be paid a certain amount, but they did, he wanted to make sure if he did it went to what he deemed the right people, they wouldn't assure him this so he didn't take a pay cut, he's 100% entitled to ask where the money from his pay cut will go.

[selassie]

We're never going to know the facts though, but generally speaking redundancy is something people prefer to avoid on the whole.

Well Arsenal wanted him to take a pay cut, they had no right to ask that either as he's contracted to be paid a certain amount, but they did, he wanted to make sure if he did it went to what he deemed the right people, they wouldn't assure him this so he didn't take a pay cut, he's 100% entitled to ask where the money from his pay cut will go.

Just because people prefer redundancy doesn't make it a bad thing based on some of the examples I have given.

If it was pretty obvious why Arsenal asked the players to take a paycut?! FFS we are going through a Global Pandemic :haha:

[Özim]

Just because people prefer redundancy doesn't make it a bad thing based on some of the examples I have given.

If it was pretty obvious why Arsenal asked the players to take a paycut?! FFS we are going through a Global Pandemic :haha:

Let's be honest, Arsenal are owned by a billionaire, he doesn't need the players to take a paycut or indeed for people to lose job, he could easily cover it, I'm not going to lose any sleep over Arsenal struggling :lol:. On top of that Arsenal went out and spent 45 million on a player, that doesn't sound like a club struggling for money to me, so yes we are in a global pandemic but we needn't be so ruthless.

As it happens I think players maybe should have taken a pay cut, but to help others, not if it means others losing their jobs, but as I said Kroenke could easily take the hit if he so wished.

The no fans in stadium thing is kinda karma for Arsenal really, they took fans turning up for granted for years and charged them sky high prices, kinda ironic they now can't have any fans really, the club didn't develop the other areas of revenue as much as they could as the gate receipts were so high, very shortsighted really.

[Niall_Quinn]

There's a difference though. If the pay cut was so some bankster could get his monthly pound of flesh, or the share price could be propped up for the loyal shareholders, that's a bit different than using the cash to essentially keep the club intact, including the support staff who aren't on the big cash. Indeed, even gathering up all the cash from these overpaid hoofers, it's a piss in a bucket in terms of doing much outside the confines of the club. The only place it could be really effective is to ensure lower paid staff didn't lose their jobs. I'm with Ozil on this. Make sure the money will be used properly.

That's as far as my support for Ozil goes though. He should be on the pitch, adding the creativity we so desperately need. And whether it's mostly his fault, or the club's fault this isn't happening, it's outrageous nonetheless. Heads need to be knocked together and people need to be reminded it's about sport and excellence and competition. Unless it's not.

[Niall_Quinn]

Let's be honest, Arsenal are owned by a billionaire, he doesn't need the players to take a paycut or indeed for people to lose job, he could easily cover it, I'm not going to lose any sleep over Arsenal struggling :lol:. On top of that Arsenal went out and spent 45 million on a player, that doesn't sound like a club struggling for money to me, so yes we are in a global pandemic but we needn't be so ruthless.

As it happens I think players maybe should have taken a pay cut, but to help others, not if it means others losing their jobs, but as I said Kroenke could easily take the hit if he so wished.

The no fas in stadium thing is kinda karma for Arsenal really, they took fans turning up for granted for years and chrged them sky high prices, kinda ironic they now can't have any fans really.

That should have happened too - and (conspiracy theory) maybe it did? We won't be clear on how this has been handled until next year. So I won't condemn Stan outright, until the evidence is in. But absolutely. In the good times he can mortgage the club to buy his ranches. In the bad times he needs to be there too, paying it back so there's a partnership rather than a one way street. We'll see, won't we. It will be very illustrative to see how Stan behaved when the club was most in need.

[Özim]

That should have happened too - and (conspiracy theory) maybe it did? We won't be clear on how this has been handled until next year. So I won't condemn Stan outright, until the evidence is in. But absolutely. In the good times he can mortgage the club to buy his ranches. In the bad times he needs to be there too, paying it back so there's a partnership rather than a one way street. We'll see, won't we. It will be very illustrative to see how Stan behaved when the club was most in need.

Yes I agree, there were redundancies though, he may have helped but for me those jobs should not have been lost during this period, it's the little people basically being discarded because they don't matter and aren't valued, we've got multi million pound a year footballers and somehow we still have to get rid of people on a relative pittance (I know the players took a pay cut too but 15% is a drop in the ocean for them).

Not that I think it should be down to the players, but for me if anyone should take py cuts then highest paid t the club should take the biggest hit because in the end they still have plenty even with a pay cut.

From a fan point of view it's great we signed partey don't get me wrong, but for people to lose their jobs and then for us to splash the cash doesn't sit well with me, I just think noone should have lost their job.

[selassie]

Let's be honest, Arsenal are owned by a billionaire, he doesn't need the players to take a paycut or indeed for people to lose job, he could easily cover it, I'm not going to lose any sleep over Arsenal struggling :lol:. On top of that Arsenal went out and spent 45 million on a player, that doesn't sound like a club struggling for money to me, so yes we are in a global pandemic but we needn't be so ruthless.

As it happens I think players maybe should have taken a pay cut, but to help others, not if it means others losing their jobs, but as I said Kroenke could easily take the hit if he so wished.

The no fans in stadium thing is kinda karma for Arsenal really, they took fans turning up for granted for years and charged them sky high prices, kinda ironic they now can't have any fans really, the club didn't develop the other areas of revenue as much as they could as the gate receipts were so high, very shortsighted really.

A billionaire doesn't have infinite amount of money.

You say you won't lose any sleep over Arsenal struggling yet you would have been the first on here complaining that Arsenal haven't strengthened their team if we choose (as you put it) to continue paying our playing and non-paying staff full wages in preference to strengthening the team. As I stated on numerous occasions...I don't think they are linked but hey ho.

You talk as if Arsenal are the only club in world football who have taken on a cost cutting exercise.

How do you know that Kroenke could have taken a hit? Are you privy to his financial circumstances? Do you personally know where his money is tied up or where it is spent?

[Niall_Quinn]

Unfortunately, in this world, the little people don't matter. So if a club has to make cuts in the short term it's almost certainly looking at who can be replaced easily once things return to normal, or whatever passes as normal. And that's not going to be the big boys in the boardroom, or the people with football knowledge, or the players. Realistically, the support staff are most expendable. But they also have the lowest wages, so it really does become a mean endeavour to make savings there, unless we're so up against the wall financially that pennies count.

That's not really the main point though. For me, I don't want the club to be talking about "the Arsenal Way" from now on, as if we are somehow different and above it all. We're down in the dirt with the rest of them. Everyone has known that for a long time, and this is just another illustration of it. Let's put that to one side now and just call it like it is - a business that also happens to be a football club. Same as all the rest. And getting rid of the dinosaur is ironic because he's a part of that Arsenal Way that was sacrificed by the great Kroenke/ Wenger project - and I can't wait to get to Wenger's explanation for all this in his book. He says he loves the sport, he loves the club, and then he goes on about sustainability, as if that was ever a reality in the casino, cash wheelbarrow world of modern football. All a scam to preach constraint to the little guy who gets it up the arse, and provide bounty to the few who are high on the hog come thick or thin.

As always, it works out in favour of those who have at the expense of those collecting the crumbs. I'm realistic enough to know that's the way it is. I don't agree with it And I would never contemplate trying to excuse those who benefit from it, because they do a relentless job of that themselves. Maybe the dinosaur is walking off into the sunset entirely content. But he's another part of what football used to be, that has also walked into that same sunset. And that's my main issue.

[Özim]

Unfortunately, in this world, the little people don't matter. So if a club has to make cuts in the short term it's almost certainly looking at who can be replaced easily once things return to normal, or whatever passes as normal. And that's not going to be the big boys in the boardroom, or the people with football knowledge, or the players. Realistically, the support staff are most expendable. But they also have the lowest wages, so it really does become a mean endeavour to make savings there, unless we're so up against the wall financially that pennies count.

That's not really the main point though. For me, I don't want the club to be talking about "the Arsenal Way" from now on, as if we are somehow different and above it all. We're down in the dirt with the rest of them. Everyone has known that for a long time, and this is just another illustration of it. Let's put that to one side now and just call it like it is - a business that also happens to be a football club. Same as all the rest. And getting rid of the dinosaur is ironic because he's a part of that Arsenal Way that was sacrificed by the great Kroenke/ Wenger project - and I can't wait to get to Wenger's explanation for all this in his book. He says he loves the sport, he loves the club, and then he goes on about sustainability, as if that was ever a reality in the casino, cash wheelbarrow world of modern football. All a scam to preach constraint to the little guy who gets it up the arse, and provide bounty to the few who are high on the hog come thick or thin.

As always, it works out in favour of those who have at the expense of those collecting the crumbs. I'm realistic enough to know that's the way it is. I don't agree with it And I would never contemplate trying to excuse those who benefit from it, because they do a relentless job of that themselves. Maybe the dinosaur is walking off into the sunset entirely content. But he's another part of what football used to be, that has also walked into that same sunset. And that's my main issue.

Spot on.

[Özim]

A billionaire doesn't have infinite amount of money.

You say you won't lose any sleep over Arsenal struggling yet you would have been the first on here complaining that Arsenal haven't strengthened their team if we choose (as you put it) to continue paying our playing and non-paying staff full wages in preference to strengthening the team. As I stated on numerous occasions...I don't think they are linked but hey ho.

You talk as if Arsenal are the only club in world football who have taken on a cost cutting exercise.

How do you know that Kroenke could have taken a hit? Are you privy to his financial circumstances? Do you personally know where his money is tied up or where it is spent?

The guy has plenty of money, he owns clubs left right and centre and he's also married to someone worth an absolute fortune, he won't end up on the streets don't worry :lol:

From a fan point of view yes, but from a human point of view no, but as I said we're owned by a billionaire both could have been done.

They're not, but any club that makes people redundant in a time like this and then spends 45 million on some footballer doesn't come out well out of it, that goes for any club that behaves this way.

I could throw that straight back at you. How do you know Kroenke doesn't have plenty of money? How do you know he has taken a hit? How do you know Gunnersaurus got a decent settlement? How do you know Ozil isn't being treated unfairly? You just like everyone else forms an opinion based on things you believe rather than fact.

[selassie]

Unfortunately, in this world, the little people don't matter. So if a club has to make cuts in the short term it's almost certainly looking at who can be replaced easily once things return to normal, or whatever passes as normal. And that's not going to be the big boys in the boardroom, or the people with football knowledge, or the players. Realistically, the support staff are most expendable. But they also have the lowest wages, so it really does become a mean endeavour to make savings there, unless we're so up against the wall financially that pennies count.

That's not really the main point though. For me, I don't want the club to be talking about "the Arsenal Way" from now on, as if we are somehow different and above it all. We're down in the dirt with the rest of them. Everyone has known that for a long time, and this is just another illustration of it. Let's put that to one side now and just call it like it is - a business that also happens to be a football club. Same as all the rest. And getting rid of the dinosaur is ironic because he's a part of that Arsenal Way that was sacrificed by the great Kroenke/ Wenger project - and I can't wait to get to Wenger's explanation for all this in his book. He says he loves the sport, he loves the club, and then he goes on about sustainability, as if that was ever a reality in the casino, cash wheelbarrow world of modern football. All a scam to preach constraint to the little guy who gets it up the arse, and provide bounty to the few who are high on the hog come thick or thin.

As always, it works out in favour of those who have at the expense of those collecting the crumbs. I'm realistic enough to know that's the way it is. I don't agree with it And I would never contemplate trying to excuse those who benefit from it, because they do a relentless job of that themselves. Maybe the dinosaur is walking off into the sunset entirely content. But he's another part of what football used to be, that has also walked into that same sunset. And that's my main issue.

Right

[selassie]

The guy has plenty of money, he owns clubs left right and centre and he's also married to someone worth an absolute fortune, he won't end up on the streets don't worry :lol:

From a fan point of view yes, but from a human point of view no, but as I said we're owned by a billionaire both could have been done.

They're not, but any club that makes people redundant in a time like this and then spends 45 million on some footballer doesn't come out well out of it, that goes for any club that behaves this way.

I could throw that straight back at you. How do you know Kroenke doesn't have plenty of money? How do you know he has taken a hit? How do you know Gunnersaurus got a decent settlement? How do you know Ozil isn't being treated unfairly? You just like everyone else forms an opinion based on things you believe rather than fact.

I guess if you look at things simplistically then you are spot on he has loads of money, but wealth and actual available cash flows are two different things...but you know that right?

I don't know if Kroenke has plenty of money or not, my above point about wealth vs cash flows is what I was driving at with you in my earlier post but it seems to be going way over your head.

I gave examples, not facts..not opinions, examples of why I felt the likes of you and others could be wrong about some of the things you are saying because you are looking at everything simplistically and at a high level.

What we know of the Ozil situation and it's been reported widespread across the media, Ozil has even admitted it himself. See below;

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/mesut-ozil-arsenal-contract-pay-cut-transfer-news-2020-arteta-a9668161.html

It's not an opinion, it's a fact that he was the only first team player to REFUSE take a pay cut, why should he be exempt? Especially given he earns way and above what anybody else earns.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ozil got slaughtered for that, didn't he? In the media and by the fans and here on this forum. I never checked, but did the club speak out on this, or did they leave him to twist? That, I suspect, would have (at least partly) informed his later decision to dive into the dinosaur issue. I don't know, did they club ever say, fair enough, each player must choose? Or did they leave him to twist?

[selassie]

There's a difference though. If the pay cut was so some bankster could get his monthly pound of flesh, or the share price could be propped up for the loyal shareholders, that's a bit different than using the cash to essentially keep the club intact, including the support staff who aren't on the big cash. Indeed, even gathering up all the cash from these overpaid hoofers, it's a piss in a bucket in terms of doing much outside the confines of the club. The only place it could be really effective is to ensure lower paid staff didn't lose their jobs. I'm with Ozil on this. Make sure the money will be used properly.

That's as far as my support for Ozil goes though. He should be on the pitch, adding the creativity we so desperately need. And whether it's mostly his fault, or the club's fault this isn't happening, it's outrageous nonetheless. Heads need to be knocked together and people need to be reminded it's about sport and excellence and competition. Unless it's not.

NQ, read through my posts...try and understand the points I am making on redundancies, cost cutting, severance packages. Redundancies through COVID 19 are not as simplistic as you are making it out to be. What you and Zim are saying on face value makes sense, but without having access to both financial and personal information regarding the redundancies / cost cutting your points are largely neither here nor there.

[selassie]

Ozil got slaughtered for that, didn't he? In the media and by the fans and here on this forum. I never checked, but did the club speak out on this, or did they leave him to twist? That, I suspect, would have (at least partly) informed his later decision to dive into the dinosaur issue. I don't know, did they club ever say, fair enough, each player must choose? Or did they leave him to twist?

The club left him to rot because he refused to do what they wanted him to do, he was the only ONE!

You think Arsenal FC is the only business asking their staff to take wage cuts? :haha:

Refusal to follow instruction in a normal business results in a disciplinary procedure!

P.S. It's not Ozil's issue to dive into re: Gunnersaurus, he's an absolute twat if you ask me. He makes himself look like a complete cunt by refusing to do what all other First team players did, then months down the line wade into something that has nothing to do with him!

[Letters]

He wasn't the only player to refuse to take a cut - or at least for some more information before he did.

[selassie]

He wasn't the only player to refuse to take a cut - or at least for some more information before he did.

Correct, there were 3. But Ozil was the only one to wade into the Gunnersaurus debate!

He was likely the only player out of the 3 that sits at home doing Sweet FA too. :lol:

Edited to add:

Didn't Bellerin step in and get 2 of the 3 to agree to take the paycut, obviously Ozil wasn't one of those 2 of 3.

I'll try and dig out the articles regarding Bellerin stepping in...I am sure I read it somewhere.

Taking paycuts for anybody regardless of what you earn is not a nice thing but it's happened to many of us through COVID 19 myself included, my contract rate now is a lot lower than what it is was pre-COVID 19.

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ, read through my posts...try and understand the points I am making on redundancies, cost cutting, severance packages. Redundancies through COVID 19 are not as simplistic as you are making it out to be. What you and Zim are saying on face value makes sense, but without having access to both financial and personal information regarding the redundancies / cost cutting your points are largely neither here nor there.

You're arguing it from a practical angle, which I understand. I'm arguing it from a public relations, cultural angle. And, for me, the club doesn't come out of this well in those terms. It comes out looking like what it is, detached from the bigger issues and entirely self absorbed. Tone deaf. Not that I'm saying I expected it to be different. I know why they are doing what they are doing. They don't make a secret of it. Everything has been sacrificed for sustainability. The relationship with the fans, the culture, the results, the quality on the pitch, the competitiveness, everything. It's what we've all been complaining about for years. And for me, this is just an expected continuation of it.

I actually don't care that much about it. Probably arguing for argument's sake. I don't expect anything respectable from Arsenal these days and I'm never disappointed.

[Niall_Quinn]

The club left him to rot because he refused to do what they wanted him to do, he was the only ONE!

You think Arsenal FC is the only business asking their staff to take wage cuts? :haha:

Refusal to follow instruction in a normal business results in a disciplinary procedure!

P.S. It's not Ozil's issue to dive into re: Gunnersaurus, he's an absolute twat if you ask me. He makes himself look like a complete cunt by refusing to do what all other First team players did, then months down the line wade into something that has nothing to do with him!

No. But wasn't Ozil the only player who was dragged through the media by name? If there were others, their names weren't mentioned. I'm not quite sure refusal to accept a breach of contract is a disciplinary matter.

[Mac76]

No. But wasn't Ozil the only player who was dragged through the media by name? If there were others, their names weren't mentioned. I'm not quite sure refusal to accept a breach of contract is a disciplinary matter.

Exactly, he was being asked to voluntarily give up part of his agreed wages, it's the club who were asking players to break contracts

So Ozil told Mickey to stuff it and Mickey now won't pick him

All so very grown up really...

[Globalgunner]

Cant wait for this time next year when we wont have to talk about this twat anymore. The company (Arsenal fc) has lost a significant part of its revenue due to the pandemic. The club could have legally in my mind pulled a force majeure clause and forced a pay cut on everyone including the players merely as an existential imperative. Ozil played the twat card because that is what he is and refused the cut that seemed perfectly reasonable to everyone else.

and people are lining up to defend him?.
Billions of people around the world are forced to accept reduced of in some cases totally lost income and a man earning (sponging) £18m a year we should feel sorry for. ?

[selassie]

Cant wait for this time next year when we wont have to talk about this twat anymore. The company (Arsenal fc) has lost a significant part of its revenue due to the pandemic. The club could have legally in my mind pulled a force majeure clause and forced a pay cut on everyone including the players merely as an existential imperative. Ozil played the twat card because that is what he is and refused the cut that seemed perfectly reasonable to everyone else.

and people are lining up to defend him?.
Billions of people around the world are forced to accept reduced of in some cases totally lost income and a man earning (sponging) £18m a year we should feel sorry for. ?

I know it's nuts.

[Globalgunner]

I know it's nuts.

I think some people are trying to live their lives vicariously through him. Wishing they were him and in doing so say FU to the man (Arsenal). Totally stupid. Can a waiter or a cook sue a restaurant that sacks or halves their salaries in these times?. Look around you man, there are no diners!. Do you think as a business principle. The club should take out a loan or dip into its savings in order to pay Ozil. Is that how businesses operate?. Its been well reported that the Kroenkes personally made the cash available to buy Partey, that is good business, a company investing in its own future, but its still a loan. Sounds as if some would happily see the club driven to the wall while Ozil makes bank from his lounge chair.

[Letters]

How hard can it be to understand that Ozil did NOT simply refuse to take a pay cut. He actually offered to take a bigger pay cut, but he did ask for certain conditions like it guaranteeing no redundancies of non playing staff. The club refused :shrug:
I don’t think anyone comes out of this whole Ozil saga particularly well.
I have to believe that if Ozil really wanted to he could be playing, if he’s not putting the effort in then that’s inexcusable. But it does also feel like Arteta and the club are sidelining him for petty reasons too.

[Marc Overmars]

Ozil is entitled to do whatever he wants with his money and the same goes for the club with theirs.

The only fact we can see from this is that a player hasn’t been involved for 7 months and quite obviously has no future here, yet is content with his situation. Anyone who respects their career would have long gone but it seems like he has packed it in.

[Mac76]

How hard can it be to understand that Ozil did NOT simply refuse to take a pay cut. He actually offered to take a bigger pay cut, but he did ask for certain conditions like it guaranteeing no redundancies of non playing staff. The club refused :shrug:
I don’t think anyone comes out of this whole Ozil saga particularly well.
I have to believe that if Ozil really wanted to he could be playing, if he’s not putting the effort in then that’s inexcusable. But it does also feel like Arteta and the club are sidelining him for petty reasons too.

I agree, am not saying Ozil is blameless and can't understand why he doesn't want to go and play elsewhere, but the club and manager are the ones who should be able to do better than simply leave him on the bench

[Özim]

I guess if you look at things simplistically then you are spot on he has loads of money, but wealth and actual available cash flows are two different things...but you know that right?

I don't know if Kroenke has plenty of money or not, my above point about wealth vs cash flows is what I was driving at with you in my earlier post but it seems to be going way over your head.

I gave examples, not facts..not opinions, examples of why I felt the likes of you and others could be wrong about some of the things you are saying because you are looking at everything simplistically and at a high level.

What we know of the Ozil situation and it's been reported widespread across the media, Ozil has even admitted it himself. See below;

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/mesut-ozil-arsenal-contract-pay-cut-transfer-news-2020-arteta-a9668161.html

It's not an opinion, it's a fact that he was the only first team player to REFUSE take a pay cut, why should he be exempt? Especially given he earns way and above what anybody else earns.

There's a good chance he has plenty of money he can call on, or certainly raise at the drop of a hat, as I said he's a billionaire, not an average joe walking down the street, Abrahmovic/the City owners doesn't seem to have a problem finding 200 million here and there so why is that different for Kroenke? Yes we don't know for a fact but we do know he's worth a lot and that even if he has to borrow in the short term it would easy for him (if he needed to). What we do know about Kroenke since he joined us is he doesn't like to put his own money in, he just wants the business to run itself.

You gave examples of a couple friends, I know people who got made redundant and got not to nothing, in fact almost all those I know that have been made redundant got a minimal amount (one who didn't even get his last months pay thus far), so your examples are just that a few random examples.

We all know about the Ozil situation but theres' always two sides to a story, as well as this, it was the club that allowed him to run down his contract, it was the club that gave him that money, it was the club that decided not to pick him (though clearly he's not breaching his contract and is still willing to do what's required of him or they'd have fined him or had him for breach of contract), let's not pretend Arsenal are this morally superior example of a football club, they're not, they're record is actually pretty dreadful on that score in recent yes.

But actually you can ignore all that because it's unrelated, this is about Arsenal FC, they wanted Ozil to take a pay cut, he said he won't unless it protects jobs, they said no, he told them to stick it, fair enough if you ask me, if the cost cutting wasn't to protect jobs what was it for exactly?

He's not exempt, but it's a choice, noone had to accept it, in the same way Arsenal don't need to be told how to spend their money I guess, you say Ozil has no right to do that, fair enough, but they have no right to ask him to take a pay cut either. Let's not compare footballers to the real world either, it's completely different, they have a contract for a certain period entitling them to what's been agreed and if you want rid you had to pay them off (I don't necessairily agree with that but that's the facts) maybe it should be like that in the real world as well but it isn't, hey ho. Personally I think Ozil is right in this case, take the pay cut but make sure it does some good, don't take it not knowing if it's going to be used postively.

Either way Arsenal have not come out of this well, you say Gunnersaurus might have been better off and had a big pay off, I doubt it as it was clearly a money saving exercise so if they gave him a big pay off greater and then brought him back a year later they'd barely save anything, realistically because it's cost cutting they'd be lookingat minimising how much they pay out, that's the logical thing surely?

[Özim]

Ozil is entitled to do whatever he wants with his money and the same goes for the club with theirs.

The only fact we can see from this is that a player hasn’t been involved for 7 months and quite obviously has no future here, yet is content with his situation. Anyone who respects their career would have long gone but it seems like he has packed it in.


I think there's clearly something going on here, it's not just a case of him being told he's not needed, the fact he's so adamant he won't leaves suggests he feels Arsenal haven't treated well (rightly or wrongly), this isn't just some player who lost his place and has been told that if he wants to play he needs to find another club. Don't get me wrong I'd rather he'd have left, but it's clear there's more going on then meets the eye.

This is the club that goes round and rubs others clubs up the wrong way after all, just like they did with Liverpool with Suarez.

[Marc Overmars]

PL squads have to be registered today and as expected Ozil has reportedly been left out.

350k a week to turn up for training. Sickening.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well that's crazy. The mismanagement that must have gone on here is hard to imagine.

[Marc Overmars]

Yep he’s been left out and most likely played his last game for us.

Mesut. :wave:

Tossed in the bin by country and now club.

[Özim]

At a time when we have almost zero creativity to not even keep him as an option is about as ridiculous as trying to send our 30 million defender Saliba on loan, first to France, then to the Championship and then failing (ironically with Holding being injured Arteta may be forced to play him and if he performs well his judgement will be in question.

What is going on at this club, there's this Wengeresque quality about Arteta where he seems to make the oddest decisions.

[Niall_Quinn]

How have the clowns allegedly running this place not even managed to get him out the door on a loan deal? Even if we ended up covering half his wages? Is there no club anywhere that would take a cut-price Ozil?

There can't be a more ridiculous club anywhere on the planet when it comes to contracts. Not just this contract, but a string of them going all the way back. Maybe Utd rival us for sheer waste, but they can afford it. Our lot is always saying we have no money. But we can just piss £10mill a year down the bog?

We've paid a loyalty bonus to a player who isn't on the roster. How does that work?

[Letters]

Genuinely mind-boggling how much we've managed to cock this up. :doh:

[Bumble]

At a time when we have almost zero creativity to not even keep him as an option is about as ridiculous as trying to send our 30 million defender Saliba on loan, first to France, then to the Championship and then failing (ironically with Holding being injured Arteta may be forced to play him and if he performs well his judgement will be in question.

What is going on at this club, there's this Wengeresque quality about Arteta where he seems to make the oddest decisions.

i dont think we can play Saliba at all, thought he was left out of the rosters. Perhaps he isnt as good as Arteta hoped. Although he is still young.

you cant criticise for selecting ozil and criticise for not selecting him. we have to move on from ozil depressing that we cant even get rid on loan although i imagine ozil doesnt want to move so unless chelsea came in for him then he aint moving. we should just come to some sort of arrangement to make him a free agent. even pay up 50% of his last year of contract.

[Özim]

If we can't play Saliba at all it's a shocker to be honest, another mistake.

[Mac76]

If we can't play Saliba at all it's a shocker to be honest, another mistake.

they seem to have zero faith in him, it's wierd - either he really is a fail or he's another one who won't run round Artetas traffic cones, in which case he can kiss his career goodbye

[Globalgunner]

they seem to have zero faith in him, it's wierd - either he really is a fail or he's another one who won't run round Artetas traffic cones, in which case he can kiss his career goodbye

This is a player who was the mainstay of his former teams backline for 2 seasons and they desperately wanted to keep him. Given how hapless our defending has been until gabriel showed up I wouldnt write off the kid. Our defensive coaches are toilet. Is it Merts doing the coaching. WTF is being smoked up there in Colney?

[Marc Overmars]

Saliba is in the Prem squad but not Europa. Bit weird tbh, would have thought he’d be able to settle in easily playing against the shit in our group.

Maybe it’s just down to being unsettled after the move, he is only 19 after all. Hope he isn’t a wet lettuce like Reyes was though.

[selassie]

Just as worrying and baffling is the news floating about that we offered Mustafi a contract extension in the summer which he apparently turned down. Laughable stuff to be honest, both in that we offered an extension and he turned it down.

What does Mustafi have on Arteta?

[Özim]

Just as worrying and baffling is the news floating about that we offered Mustafi a contract extension in the summer which he apparently turned down. Laughable stuff to be honest, both in that we offered an extension and he turned it down.

What does Mustafi have on Arteta?

Yeah Arteta wants to keep him on and Mustafi is not happy with his 90k a week and wants 120k apparently. 1k extra for each error he's made over the last season.

Arteta says he's very happy with him and contractual discussions are going on, clearly he's told the board to re-sign him.

Here we were looking forward to not having to see this calamity play for us at the end of the season when he's out of contract, but no Arteta wants to keep him, it's a joke to be honest.