Sold the wrong keeper

[Dial Square Old Boy]

Leno clearly not to Martinez’ standard. Good, but not good enough. A constant worry.

[hobson's choice]

No Martinez sale no Partey

[GP]

No Martinez sale no Partey

Simple as that

[Niall_Quinn]

We have a billionaire owner. No Martinez sale, no Partey is just another excuse for Kroenke.

[Letters]

Just watch some highlights from earlier and... :doh:

Obviously there was the goal but he did the same thing two other times and we were fortunate to get away with it. I hate all this playing it out from the back. Invites pressure, means the smallest mistake and you concede a chance, maybe a goal. And Leno did it 3 times today in the second half alone.
Worrying.

[Mac76]

Martinez was much more suited to playing out from the back

And i've said before we could have got at least £10m for Leno and i think the Kroenkes would have come through on Partey regardless

Arteta showed misguided loyalty and the club as a whole some real short-sightedness

[Niall_Quinn]

On the other hand, if Martinez wanted out and wasn't prepared to keep fighting for that number one spot, maybe that's the flaw that prompted the sale.

We don't know what went on behind the scenes. We never do.

I wouldn't have thought it would be too difficult to displace Leno. So maybe other bullshit was happening.

There does seem to be a stench of favouritism at the club though.

Is Martinez dead now, btw? What kind of injury did he have? A leg amputation? Wasn't playing before he got injured, isn't playing now - so I guess the injury must be terminal?

[Mac76]

.

Is Martinez dead now, btw? What kind of injury did he have? A leg amputation? Wasn't playing before he got injured, isn't playing now - so I guess the injury must be terminal?

You mean Martinelli...?

[Niall_Quinn]

You mean Martinelli...?

You changed what I typed.

[hobson's choice]

Martinez was much more suited to playing out from the back

And i've said before we could have got at least £10m for Leno and i think the Kroenkes would have come through on Partey regardless

Arteta showed misguided loyalty and the club as a whole some real short-sightedness

Unfortunately I already see him showing loyalties to the wrong players.

[Niall_Quinn]

Unfortunately I already see him showing loyalties to the wrong players.

To be fair though, look at the pile of shit he had to work with when he arrived. At least we aren't seeing Mustafi flounder around at the back. There were some managers, you know, who swore by that donkey. My guess is the culture is so fucked up at this place he's had to go with people who still have a distant memory of what the game is about. If he can rely on a guy in training and then the same guy doesn't totally fuck up on the pitch every 5 minutes, then maybe he's saying we'll start there, for stability. As the very basic model of what he's hoping to achieve.

I'm reaching. Aren't I?

[Chippy]

No Martinez sale no Partey
No. We could have sold Leno for £15m and Stan would have put in the rest. Simples!
Leno is piss poor. Has Martinez conceded just 2 goals at Villa?

[Ralpheroo72]

Agree, Leno isn’t great, a liability at times.

[Marc Overmars]

The problem we have now is that Leno has no serious competition and I’m sure he’s well aware of this. We just have to hope he hasn’t entered into a comfort zone.

There’s still a decent keeper there and let’s not forget he has saved our arses on many occasions but I do worry about his sloppiness.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Given how we struggled to sell any players in this window, I don't really get how it can be posited so definitively we could have just sold Leno instead.

Not going to lament Martinez's departure, ultimately he wanted to go and play first team football and not trust that he would get regularly game time here.

[Özim]

Martinez, waited 10 years for his chance, he then got it and performed brilliantly, then got dropped for the Charity Shield, fair enough if he decides he won't get his chance after that. Arteta has favourites and players he's doesn't want to play.

The favourites are the likes of Xhaka, Leno, Nketiah , Luiz etc

The ones he doesn't seem to like are the likes of Martinelli, Saliba, Ozil, Guendouzi and a few others.

I just don't like this, players should be picked on performances and form, Lacazette for example should have played against City.

Anyway martinez held onto the ball, Leno likes to punch which I personally think is riskier. Made a fair few mistakes for Leverkusen before we bought him, good shotstopper no doubt but the rest of his game needs a lot of work.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinez played in the Community Shield.

[Letters]

Martinez played in the Community Shield.

:lol:

[Mac76]

You changed what I typed.

is that why it says it in your original post?

[Niall_Quinn]

is that why it says it in your original post?

The other half of that joke is here:
http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4788&p=4525213&viewfull=1#post4525213

On your toes mister!

[Niall_Quinn]

Who is the goalkeeping coach now? They should be teaching Leno how to un-bunch his fists, open his hands and then have a try. The bloke plays as if somebody is going to jump him any minute.

[Globalgunner]

Enough about the keepers. How did we play without Xhaka?. I heard El Neny played well. Game wasnt shown in these parts.

[Niall_Quinn]

But... it's a thread about keepers...

:getcoat:

Didn't watch it so all I can tell you is Xhaka was as effective off the pitch as he is on it.

[hobson's choice]

To be fair though, look at the pile of shit he had to work with when he arrived. At least we aren't seeing Mustafi flounder around at the back. There were some managers, you know, who swore by that donkey. My guess is the culture is so fucked up at this place he's had to go with people who still have a distant memory of what the game is about. If he can rely on a guy in training and then the same guy doesn't totally fuck up on the pitch every 5 minutes, then maybe he's saying we'll start there, for stability. As the very basic model of what he's hoping to achieve.

I'm reaching. Aren't I?

I just can't stand seeing Xhaka in an Arsenal shirt. Why is this guy playing every league match regardless of his form. No matter how much more we play more fluid when he gets subbed, he's always guaranteed a start the next game.

Are these managers forced to play him. Everyone but our managers seem to understand Xhaka simply aint cut out for the PL.

And with our RB situation, again can he not see, how we play better as team and have more balance when AMN plays especially when Pepe plays ahead off him. But off course Bellerin is guaranteed a start regardless off his utter nothingness.

[Mac76]

I just can't stand seeing Xhaka in an Arsenal shirt. Why is this guy playing every league match regardless of his form. No matter how much more we play more fluid when he gets subbed, he's always guaranteed a start the next game.

Are these managers forced to play him. Everyone but our managers seem to understand Xhaka simply aint cut out for the PL.

And with our RB situation, again can he not see, how we play better as team and have more balance when AMN plays especially when Pepe plays ahead off him. But off course Bellerin is guaranteed a start regardless off his utter nothingness.

he seems to have seen the light on Xhaka perhaps, as for Bellerin i guess AMN might not have helped things by having said he wanted to play midfield but who knows maybe over time he'll work his way in to being first at RB

but again Arteta is so slow to see these things and there's definitely some teacher's pets in there

[fakeyank]

Emi is one of the best keepers in the league. In a non-pandemic year, I'd have sold him for nothing less than 70-80 million quid. Even in todays market, he is close to the 50 million quid range. Pity we sold him for pennies and kept deer caught in headlights with the ball at his feet.

[Letters]

Emi is one of the best keepers in the league. In a non-pandemic year, I'd have sold him for nothing less than 70-80 million quid.

Are you mad?

£70-80m for a ‘keeper who made 15 appearances for us in 8 years and who had a string of loans at lower clubs none of whom he made that many appearances for. He’s had a couple of international call ups but only as a squad player and didn’t play.

Don’t get me wrong, when he stepped in last season he did great, but he’s gone to Villa, the top clubs weren’t scrambling for his signature.

Leno is worrying me right now but you’re massively overrating Martinez

[mkkreuk]

Emi is one of the best keepers in the league. In a non-pandemic year, I'd have sold him for nothing less than 70-80 million quid. Even in todays market, he is close to the 50 million quid range. Pity we sold him for pennies and kept deer caught in headlights with the ball at his feet.

I’ll have what he’s having! :wacko:

[selassie]

Who is the goalkeeping coach now? They should be teaching Leno how to un-bunch his fists, open his hands and then have a try. The bloke plays as if somebody is going to jump him any minute.

:lol:

[fakeyank]

Are you mad?

£70-80m for a ‘keeper who made 15 appearances for us in 8 years and who had a string of loans at lower clubs none of whom he made that many appearances for. He’s had a couple of international call ups but only as a squad player and didn’t play.

Don’t get me wrong, when he stepped in last season he did great, but he’s gone to Villa, the top clubs weren’t scrambling for his signature.

Leno is worrying me right now but you’re massively overrating Martinez

His 15 appearances were enough to show how good he was.. especially in this new way of "everyone wanting to play from the back". There are not many keepers who look at ease barring may be the Man City keeper. Good GK's are hard to come, hence why I value him so highly. I frankly do not see any weakness in his game... his attitude seems spot on too. At a minimum, we should have held on to him for one more season. It would have lit a fire up Lenos ass to perform better... right now, Leno has no competition and he is playing like that too.

[Mac76]

valuing Leno over Martinez was a case of misplaced loyalty and nothing else - in the old days if a player - including the goalie - was injured and the stand-in did better, then they remained in place even after the other player recovered.

i'm old enough to remember Fergushite being single-minded enough to drop the goalie Jim Leighton for the reply of a cup final after he messed up in the first tie

i hate fergushite but he always kept his eye on what was important - for example playing kids in nothing cup games, whereas both Emery and now Arteta commit too many of our 'better' players

we need some of that single-mindedness - Arteta's teams are loaded with teacher's pets and bad buys from Kia Joorabchian which he then has to do something with

[Letters]

His 15 appearances were enough to show how good he was.. especially in this new way of "everyone wanting to play from the back". There are not many keepers who look at ease barring may be the Man City keeper. Good GK's are hard to come, hence why I value him so highly. I frankly do not see any weakness in his game... his attitude seems spot on too. At a minimum, we should have held on to him for one more season. It would have lit a fire up Lenos ass to perform better... right now, Leno has no competition and he is playing like that too.

Don’t get me wrong, Martinez did great last season and there is certainly a case to be made that we should have kept him over Leno. But we were never going to get £70m for him. And I don’t think it would have been fair to keep him and put him on the bench, he deserved first team football and if Arteta decided that wasn’t with us then it was reasonable to sell him.

[Mac76]

Don’t get me wrong, Martinez did great last season and there is certainly a case to be made that we should have kept him over Leno. But we were never going to get £70m for him. And I don’t think it would have been fair to keep him and put him on the bench, he deserved first team football and if Arteta decided that wasn’t with us then it was reasonable to sell him.

yes £70m's a ridiculous figure

but Arteta got it wrong with Leno and Emi

he's making a lot of bad calls, that's what worries me

[KSE Comedy Club]

yes £70m's a ridiculous figure

but Arteta got it wrong with Leno and Emi

he's making a lot of bad calls, that's what worries me

He is late Wenger mk II

[Letters]

“Anyone would be better than Wenger!”


:ninja:

[Mac76]

“Anyone would be better than Wenger!”


:ninja:

Can't believe I'm saying it, but I'm almost beginning to wish he was still there, at least he tried to encourage creative players more, even if it was all a bit chaotic. The Ozil situation wouldn't be like it was for a start...

But seriously I'd maintain we needed to reinstate the concept of paying the price for failure, but the recruitment sonce has not been good, forst a loser and then a beginner

[fakeyank]

Can't believe I'm saying it, but I'm almost beginning to wish he was still there, at least he tried to encourage creative players more, even if it was all a bit chaotic. The Ozil situation wouldn't be like it was for a start...

But seriously I'd maintain we needed to reinstate the concept of paying the price for failure, but the recruitment sonce has not been good, forst a loser and then a beginner

Nah, I am glad he is gone. I'll take another Emery 20 times over than Wenger est 2006. Even though we are failing with managers, structure at club etc, it looks like we are "trying" to make things better. In an ideal world, we'd have turned everything around right after Wenger but anyone who understands the concept of change will agree that it will take time. Emery was not the answer, Arteta looks like he isnt the answer either and probably the next one will not be the answer.. but we need to keep trying to change and do better.

[Letters]

We had to move on from Wenger.
Not because we’d be far worse under him than we are now, I don’t think we would, but because he wasn’t going to significantly improve us.
The advantage anyone who isn’t Wenger has is that...well, he isn’t Wenger.
He doesn’t have all that history with us and is easier to replace if things aren’t going right.
I don’t want us to be one of those revolving door clubs but the jury is very much out with Arteta right now. And, dragging this back to the thread topic, the decision to make Leno number one and sell Martinez is looking questionable.

[selassie]

Grass is always greener.....

I'm not as convinced as some of you that Martinez is any better than Leno. Yeah right now he is in much better form but...a better keeper in general?

Do some of you not remember Martinez throwing the ball in the net on a regular basis both for us in Cup games and when sent out on loan?

[Dial Square Old Boy]

Leno clearly not to Martinez’ standard. Good, but not good enough. A constant worry.

Said it then, I repeat it now. Leno let’s you down, guaranteed.

[Letters]

Gay Leno, amirite?

Obviously a complete balls up last night, but he doesn’t chuck them in every week.
Bumping a thread like this every time he does make a mistake is pretty pathetic.

[Marc Overmars]

Terrible mistake but the whole team have switched off as far as the league is concerned. Not going to blame him. The woeful attack, midfield and defence are just as responsible.

[I am invisible]

Yeah, this team is done for the season - nothing to play for in the league, half of them have contracts running down or know they’re going to be up for sale in the summer, our best players are all kids who aren’t getting any help or guidance from the seniors, which must be demoralising, and the whole lot of them must be looking at this last week feeling utterly embarrassed to represent this club.

I guess we’ll just have to hope that they have enough pride (or even motivated self-interest) left in them for another couple of EL games, but I won’t be holding my breath.

[Globalgunner]

Gay Leno, amirite?

Obviously a complete balls up last night, but he doesn’t chuck them in every week.
Bumping a thread like this every time he does make a mistake is pretty pathetic.

Exactly. He is hardly Almunia MK2. We endured that farce for almost 5 seasons. Bottom line is we are not a very cohesive or incisive football team. We didnt score a goal. So we didnt even merit 1 point, Forget about the offside. It wasnt designed specifically to hobble Arsenal
Arteta out!

[Globalgunner]

Yeah, this team is done for the season - nothing to play for in the league, half of them have contracts running down or know they’re going to be up for sale in the summer, our best players are all kids who aren’t getting any help or guidance from the seniors, which must be demoralising, and the whole lot of them must be looking at this last week feeling utterly embarrassed to represent this club.

I guess we’ll just have to hope that they have enough pride (or even motivated self-interest) left in them for another couple of EL games, but I won’t be holding my breath.

If we dont get either Laca or Auba back. We can kiss that tie off and end up kissing Unai Emery`s behind

[I am invisible]

If we dont get either Laca or Auba back. We can kiss that tie off and end up kissing Unai Emery`s behind
I’m at the point where I’m not sure it would even do us any favours if we win it? Would you trust anyone at the club with a CL budget right now? All I see is bumper new contracts for Lacazette, Luiz, Xhaka, etc and overpaying for a couple of average signings because people will know we have money.

I want to see this club working smarter again, and I just don’t see that happening unless they’re forced into it. Josh’s statement at the fans’ forum [about how they have big plans for the club] worries me - really worries me - with the people we have in charge.

[Mac76]

If we dont get either Laca or Auba back. We can kiss that tie off and end up kissing Unai Emery`s behind

Arteta's decision to play Laca in a meaningless league game not long after the second Sevilla game shows just what a poor manager he is, we should have wrapped him in cotton wool with just some sub appearances before the villareal game

[Mac76]

And yes we did sell the wrong keeper, no question, Arteta, for all his 'non-negotiables' BS, showed misplaced loyalty, the best keeper should get the No. 1 spot, no other factor comes into it

[Marc Overmars]

I’m at the point where I’m not sure it would even do us any favours if we win it? Would you trust anyone at the club with a CL budget right now? All I see is bumper new contracts for Lacazette, Luiz, Xhaka, etc and overpaying for a couple of average signings because people will know we have money.

I want to see this club working smarter again, and I just don’t see that happening unless they’re forced into it. Josh’s statement at the fans’ forum [about how they have big plans for the club] worries me - really worries me - with the people we have in charge.

We’ve been operating with a CL budget in the years we’ve been out of it anyway. I remember Wenger or Gazidis saying in 2017 we had factored in not qualifying for a year or 2 but I don’t think anyone at the club expected us to go 5 seasons without qualification. Feels like the more we double down, the worse it’s got.

This club is such a mess on and off the pitch. It would be somewhat palatable if we had a team we could be proud of but this is undoubtedly the worst Arsenal team in a generation. Without the young players input we’d probably be hovering above the relegation zone.

[I am invisible]

We’ve been operating with a CL budget in the years we’ve been out of it anyway. I remember Wenger or Gazidis saying in 2017 we had factored in not qualifying for a year or 2 but I don’t think anyone at the club expected us to go 5 seasons without qualification. Feels like the more we double down, the worse it’s got.

This club is such a mess on and off the pitch. It would be somewhat palatable if we had a team we could be proud of but this is undoubtedly the worst Arsenal team in a generation. Without the young players input we’d probably be hovering above the relegation zone.
Someone has to get a grip on the contracts situation - that’s where most of our woes stem from. Leaving aside the way they’ve hamstrung us in the transfer market, the fact that they’re too expensive to renew without CL football (bar one or two exceptions) is causing way too much friction. Every year we end up with a large group of players who are down to their final years, and once it becomes apparent that they won’t be getting a new deal we lose them - their effort and commitment goes out the window and then they start to become disruptive. Every year that goes by with the same players the situation gets worse, the players get harder to manage, and we slide a little further as a club.

This is one of the big reasons why changing Arteta’s role to manager was such a terrible decision: as a coach, if a player came to him asking about a new contract, he could rightly hold his hands up and say “Look, I’ll do what I can, but it’s out of my hands” - even if it was a total lie, you still maintain credibility with the players; as manager, though, he has a direct say on who gets a new deal and who doesn’t, so they know damn well he’s part of the reason that they’re not getting renewed. How can you ever expect to get a performance out of those players when you need one in those circumstances? How can you expect to maintain a happy, unified group?

[WGC Goon]

We have a billionaire owner. No Martinez sale, no Partey is just another excuse for Kroenke.

No Martinez sale, no Partey. I know it's true but how ridiculous does that sound when your club owner is worth over $5bn?

#KreonkeOut

[Globalgunner]

Do you want us to join the owner doped clubs like Chelsea, City and Utd or not. Arsenals problem is not lack of money. Its the ability to waste it. 6 years ago we were supposedly sitting on a treasury of more than 250m. Now we are taking loans from BoE. This club is a mess. Money wont fix it. New management both on and off field is what is needed. Kroenke effed up by more or less allowing Wenger to run the club for 10 years and firing him waaay too late. Then compounding it by hiring people whose CVs were obviously written by their Mom