Clear the air talks reaction (Burnley, home)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Well, fuck knows where to begin.

:wave:

[Gooner23]

These 7.15 Sunday games are fun..

At least Xhaka is banned for 3 games.

[Ralpheroo72]

Think I might watch Elf to cheer myself up. This club is a shambles, top to bottom, it has been allowed to rot under Kroenke. Unrecognisable from the Highbury days.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Only two league games though, so in reality only this week.

[Bumble]

Defensively i think we are quite solid. We arent conceding many but not scoring is massive. Arteta has to go. You just cant lose lose lose and not look like winning and be expected tokeep your job.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah, there’s nothing else to really say anymore.

This ship is sinking and it’s sinking faster than we realise. Got to pull the trigger on Arteta, the job is too big for him. Don’t have any sympathy either because he keeps picking the same players who have a history of letting Arsenal down. Don’t really care what future he might have in management but if this carries on he will take us into the Championship.

[Xhaka Can’t]

On the plus side.

Holding Burnley to one goal means we now have a better goal difference than Brighton.

The longest journey begins with a single step.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We also didn't see a foul throw, although AMN gave it a good go.

[Gooner23]

I remember people saying Newcastle were too big a club to get relegated..

Tonight has to at least force some changes. Ceballos and AMN need to be starting, and I'd throw Nelson and Smith Rowe in as well.

[Mac76]

No need for talk or analysis, it's simple - arteta out, allegri in

[Globalgunner]

Wenger in?
Had to post that before Letters gets back. Now he cant post same.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I can’t even see (Auba jokes aside) where our next goal is coming from, let alone, a win.

Better teams than this have been relegated.

[Globalgunner]

I remember people saying Newcastle were too big a club to get relegated..

Tonight has to at least force some changes. Ceballos and AMN need to be starting, and I'd throw Nelson and Smith Rowe in as well.

What do you people see in both Ceballos and AMN. They wouldn't get a game at Burnley

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Evra says Henry couldn't watch us if Xhaka was the captain. :lol:

[Gooner23]

What do you people see in both Ceballos and AMN. They wouldn't get a game at Burnley

Just based on current options. AMN at right back as I'm not convinced by Cedric either. Ceballos over Xhaka any day of the week.

[Letters]

Wenger in?
Had to post that before Letters gets back. Now he cant post same.

:lol:

We wouldn’t be in this position under Wenger, I’ll say that much.
But no, not Wenger in. But definitely Arteta Out.
I think this is the worst Arsenal team I’ve ever known.

[Gooner23]

:lol:

We wouldn’t be in this position under Wenger, I’ll say that much.
But no, not Wenger in. But definitely Arteta Out.
I think this is the worst Arsenal team I’ve ever known.

Agreed, but the rot started under Wengers watch and has snowballed under a succession of poor decision making on and off the pitch.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Can we appeal the Xhaka red card so they add an another game on to the ban for frivolous appeal

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, turns out Andrew Lincoln secretly loves Keira Knightly and we've just had this cute scene where he turns up with messages on whiteboards. Awwwwww!

Quite entertaining really.

What have you lot been up to?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Can we appeal the Xhaka red card so they add an another game on to the ban for frivolous appeal

It’s worth a try.

But god help us of we ‘win’ the appeal.

[Marc Overmars]

I can’t even see (Auba jokes aside) where our next goal is coming from, let alone, a win.

Better teams than this have been relegated.

I’ve always taken the relegation talk with a pinch of salt. Until now.

The teams we’ve been losing to this season we know are better than us. Burnley however are a terrible team, so bad that even with a man advantage they were playing for a draw.

It is a shocking result. A watershed moment for Arteta I feel. Things are spiralling out of his control now and if he’s given the season to work it out I really fear for where we could end up.

[Marc Overmars]

Just based on current options. AMN at right back as I'm not convinced by Cedric either. Ceballos over Xhaka any day of the week.

Cedric was better at Southampton than Bellerin has been for us in years. He should be first choice if you ask me.

[dostoy]

I really couldn't possibly care less but I'd like to know the reason for all of this.

Is it Arteta's treatment of Ozil ?

Has that turned the players against him ?

Basically, is it lack of effort or lack of form/confidence ?

Someone mentioned Allegri, there is no chance he would lower himself to come to a terrible team like Arsenal.

But yes, Arteta does have to go.

[selassie]

Arteta has to go now, enough of this nonsense.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I’ve always taken the relegation talk with a pinch of salt. Until now.

The teams we’ve been losing to this season we know are better than us. Burnley however are a terrible team, so bad that even with a man advantage they were playing for a draw.

It is a shocking result. A watershed moment for Arteta I feel. Things are spiralling out of his control now and if he’s given the season to work it out I really fear for where we could end up.

I feel the same. Started off by being jokey about who are our rivals. No that the reality of our predicament is settling in, it has ceased to be funny.

You have to be living in a fantasy land to think we have the means of investing in players to get out of this mess whilst class like Allegri is just waiting by his phone for our call to arms.

[Letters]

Yeah. I've always rolled my eyes at people who hysterically talk about us getting in to a relegation battle. But right now...
When push comes to shove we're probably not going to but really hard to know where the next win is coming from.

[Bumble]

We are in big do do. Home to southampton who are doing well this season. Away to everton who just beat chelsea. Home tonchelsea and then relegation 6 pointer away to brighton. The way we are playing that isnt going to produce alot of points.

[Marc Overmars]

He’s dug his own grave as far as I’m concerned. I have no idea why he’s doubled down on the “experienced” players. Letting Arsenal down comes naturally to these guys yet the same faces consistently find their back way into the team.

I thought at the very least a rookie coach would put some excitement and vigour back into the team but it’s done the opposite. None these guys are worrying about their spot being taken by the younger lot because Arteta doesn’t have the guts to drop them. It’s easy street for them.

[hobson's choice]

I remember people saying Newcastle were too big a club to get relegated..

Tonight has to at least force some changes. Ceballos and AMN need to be starting, and I'd throw Nelson and Smith Rowe in as well.

Cellabos is trash. Dude just runs around like a clown demanding the ball. Only to give it away, get bullied off the ball or pass 2 yards

[Niall_Quinn]

Can we start talking about Wenger now? And the permanent damage he did? That was warned about - long in advance?

[hobson's choice]

Can we start talking about Wenger now? And the permanent damage he did? That was warned about - long in advance?

And Gazidis, most off the players brought in during those last years, were not Wenger purchases, but the wonderful Gazidis and his analytics.

[Letters]

Can we start talking about Wenger now? And the permanent damage he did? That was warned about - long in advance?

Sure.
We can talk about how you said that he was so inept that anyone would come in and do better, if you like.
And now we're in the 3rd season since he left and you're still trying to reframe that as
"well of course no-one could do better because of the damage he did, this is all Wenger's fault".
Probably best to ignore the season after Wenger left when we actually improved marginally.

[Niall_Quinn]

And Gazidis, most off the players brought in during those last years, were not Wenger purchases, but the wonderful Gazidis and his analytics.

Yeah, him too. For sure. But you know what, they earned a lot of money. So it's not all bad news.

[Niall_Quinn]

Bring in any manger as ask him to sort out this shit. But then ask, whose shit is he trying to sort out? Arteta's? Emery's? I don't think so. Who baked second best into this club as a culture? What's his name?

[Munchies]

Big Sam to save us from relegation?

[Bumble]

Maybe we were expecting too much after wenger left. Look at united. Lots of managers lots of money spent and yet struggled replacing an icon.

There is no guarantee that the next manager will be any better. No guarantees that we will be playing CL football in next years.

A new experienced manager could come in get a bounce players work hard for a few months then revert to type.

L

[Bumble]

Big Sam to save us from relegation?

Pulis?

[Niall_Quinn]

While most of the fans were 100% committed to Wenger staying on and doing more and more catastrophic damage every year, some fans warned of the inevitable outcome. Those fans were hounded to the ends of the earth because they blasphemed against the holy Wenger. But as each new year passed, the warnings assumed more urgency. Some people, who have eyes that can see, saw us drifting to mid-table mediocrity. And we were called out and condemned by people who don't know the first thing about football. Now inevitability is inevitably apparent. And some horrific apologists want Arteta to carry the blame.

It has always been Wenger. Don't forget it. Don't try to cover it up.

[Marc Overmars]

Bring in any manger as ask him to sort out this shit. But then ask, whose shit is he trying to sort out? Arteta's? Emery's? I don't think so. Who baked second best into this club as a culture? What's his name?

This is Arteta’s mess in fairness. The Ozil situation probably cost him the respect of the players, ask anyone in that squad who is the best player and I bet they will say Ozil.

I think him trying to lay down the law has backfired massively. Even Saliba was taking the piss the other day.
Not sure how happy the young players are either having to watch this rubbish while they at least do their job with some grace in the euro shit cup.

Unhappy squad = writing on the wall.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is Arteta’s mess in fairness. The Ozil situation probably cost him the respect of the players, ask anyone in that squad who is the best player and I bet they will say Ozil.

I think him trying to lay down the law has backfired massively. Even Saliba was taking the piss the other day.
Not sure how happy the young players are either having to watch this rubbish while they at least do their job with some grace in the euro shit cup.

Unhappy squad = writing on the wall.

Sack them all then. Unhappy squad? With players earning a year's average salary every 2 weeks? Unhappy? Picked to play even when they are playing shit? Unhappy? This is the most pampered team in world football. Wenger said it himself - I don't train the, they train themselves.

Sack them all. It would cost millions, but we'll blow it anyway on the incompetent transfer clown school that characterises Arsenal in every transfer window. Ramsey gone on a free and 70 mill for Pepe - HONK, HONK!

Somebody needs to step up and start running this Wenger and Gazidis shitshow in reverse. Time for this to be a football club. If Arteta wants to freeze Ozil out and board members are afraid of yellow money drying up, fuck it. Sack them too. sack evertyone who doesn't have winning as their number one priority. Which basically means sack everyone except a few kids and Saka.

The club's done. It's broken. Owned by a leech and administered by the "self sustaining" bots. The rest doesn't even show up as a blip.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Can we start talking about Wenger now? And the permanent damage he did? That was warned about - long in advance?

Its kind of funny......I remember ages ago, during the last years of AW, when we were wining nothing but he was still quite popular with the Wengerites, having an argument on here with a particular "fan" ( not Letters surprisingly), where I stated clearly that chasing the imaginary top 4 trophy and keeping on with our one man crusade of sustainability and how "football should be " would lead to us crashing out of the top 4 and even falling out of the top 6. I also added that the Spuds (who have always aimlessly aimed for the skies) would one day surpass us if we continued with our madness of re-defining the term "success", not punishing mediocrity and always trying to be the "example". The guy practically spat at me and said these things would never ever happen... especially the Spud part (when was the last St Totteringham day btw )

Eventually Leicester wins the league, AW is gone, I think that poster is gone and yeah I'm kind of out the door too....but that stinking mentality and culture of entitlement remains like a bad stench with this club.

But even then, in my wildest dreams (or should I say scariest nightmares) I could never imagine us, the Arsenal, being in a real relegation fight....Wow.

[Letters]

While most of the fans were 100% committed to Wenger staying on and doing more and more catastrophic damage every year
No, they weren't.
Over time more and more fans saw that we needed to move on from Wenger. I admittedly was late to that party but in Wenger's last season very few people wanted him to stay on longer.
You were the one saying he was so bad that anyone would do better and you said that the new manager should be sacked if they didn't get us a serious title challenge within 2 years. Now you're saying that wasn't even possible because of the damage Wenger did. Honestly, the mental backflips you have to do to keep pretending you were right about everything...

In Emery's first season we did marginally better than Wenger's last. We got to the Europa League final and got 70 points - should have been more really.
The squad Wenger left us with did fine. It wasn't spectacular but it was a reasonable base to build on. It's been a complete shit show since then.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sure.
We can talk about how you said that he was so inept that anyone would come in and do better, if you like.
And now we're in the 3rd season since he left and you're still trying to reframe that as
"well of course no-one could do better because of the damage he did, this is all Wenger's fault".
Probably best to ignore the season after Wenger left when we actually improved marginally.

Oh and these kind of silly arguments still occur :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

No, they weren't.
Over time more and more fans saw that we needed to move on from Wenger. I admittedly was late to that party but in Wenger's last season very few people wanted him to stay on longer.
You were the one saying he was so bad that anyone would do better and you said that the new manager should be sacked if they didn't get us a serious title challenge within 2 years. Now you're saying that wasn't even possible because of the damage Wenger did. Honestly, the mental backflips you have to do to keep pretending you were right about everything...

In Emery's first season we did marginally better than Wenger's last. We got to the Europa League final and got 70 points - should have been more really.
The squad Wenger left us with did fine. It wasn't spectacular but it was a reasonable base to build on. It's been a complete shit show since then.

Its been a shitshow since we lost that CL final...when will you get this Letters!!!

Rome wasn't built in a day and it's decline definitely didn't occurr in one season...at least thats a well studied historical FACT.

[Marc Overmars]

What doesn’t get spoken about enough is also how much of a shit show the club has been behind the scenes. Multiple changes at executive level, in recruitment, contracts etc. None of it is conducive of a club with a strong vision or strategy. Is it really any wonder how we’ve been left with such a dire team.

[Letters]

Its been a shitshow since we lost that CL final...
I think that's somewhat over-stating things.
But has it ever been this bad? Not since 2006. Probably not since the mid 80s at least. This is the worst I can remember things.
I'm just highlighting the fact that people who said that anyone would do better than Wenger are now, when that had been shown to be wrong, now saying "well, of course we're worse now, because of all the damage Wenger did". When Wenger left NQ said he'd be expecting a new manager come in and challenge for the title in 2 years. Now he's saying that was never possible? :shrug:

[Mac76]

What doesn’t get spoken about enough is also how much of a shit show the club has been behind the scenes. Multiple changes at executive level, in recruitment, contracts etc. None of it is conducive of a club with a strong vision or strategy. Is it really any wonder how we’ve been left with such a dire team.

Totally agree with this and your other post, it really is scary when you think that's there's no-one there whos is wise or experienced enough to sort this out, the club's been hollowed out, everyone has left the hard work to someone else and now there's no-one

Only a big experienced manager can do it

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

What doesn’t get spoken about enough is also how much of a shit show the club has been behind the scenes. Multiple changes at executive level, in recruitment, contracts etc. None of it is conducive of a club with a strong vision or strategy. Is it really any wonder how we’ve been left with such a dire team.

This is the point, the whole club is rotten...and it all started when one man started believing his hype and everyone felt he had the formulae to turn shit into gold at the snap of his fingers.

After his initial success, AW lowered the competitive mentality of this club with bullshit preaching and sour grape ethics once he couldn't compete; unfortunately for us, his model also suited greedy businessmen who don't give a shit about football and just want a safe investement where they spend little but reap a lot , thanks to a large loyal fan base that actually love the club.

We need a fan to buy this club back or we will never get back to what we use to be when we had people with dreams running this club.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think that's somewhat over-stating things.
But has it ever been this bad? Not since 2006. Probably not since the mid 80s at least. This is the worst I can remember things.
I'm just highlighting the fact that people who said that anyone would do better than Wenger are now, when that had been shown to be wrong, now saying "well, of course we're worse now, because of all the damage Wenger did". When Wenger left NQ said he'd be expecting a new manager come in and challenge for the title in 2 years. Now he's saying that was never possible? :shrug:

But don't you think Letters, that if we had gone for the best of the best, the Alegris and Simones we were all talking about then; maybe the dream of a fan like NQ would have had a better chance of coming true?

The mentality of this club is the problem, when faced with world class choices we always want to shock everyone by going for the person no one really rates or is untested. Emery was never among the best 10 managers in the world, he was an underdog for the job in the beginning but yet our small time entitilement mentality makes sure we go for the less risky choice... A yes man.

The lazy know-nothing execs were just trying to repeat the Wenger miracle Dein achieved ages ago....that fascination with all things Wenger is still what is killing this club.

[Niall_Quinn]

I didn't know I'd said we'd be challenging for the title in 2 years. That's news to me. I thought I was saying we'd be mid table and shite. Obviously I got it wrong. Can't believe I paid so little attention to the absolutely horrible attitude Wenger and his cronies infested the club with. That said, I don't think they did it on purpose, as in wanting to fail - although the mistakes they made were deliberate. I believe they though FFP would be a far bigger deal than it turned out to be. And, suiting their cheapskate and second best mentality, that seemed the easiest route to covering their bullshit ideology in glory. Then FFP turned out to be an excuse for rich clubs to be rich and so Wenger and the board turned around and blamed the fans for the inevitable failure. You al remember when that happened, right?

[Niall_Quinn]

But don't you think Letters, that if we had gone for the best of the best, the Alegris and Simones we were all talking about then; maybe the dream of a fan like NQ would have had a better chance of coming true?

The mentality of this club is the problem, when faced with world class choices we always want to shock everyone by going for the person no one really rates or is untested. Emery was never among the best 10 managers in the world, he was an underdog for the job in the beginning but yet our small time entitilement mentality makes sure we go for the less risky choice... A yes man.

The lazy know-nothing execs were just trying to repeat the Wenger miracle Dein achieved ages ago....that fascination with all things Wenger is still what is killing this club.

It's not a shock though, is it, when Arsenal rolls up with a second rate option? It's entirely predictable. When was the last time we went up against the big clubs for a signing? In terms of head to head you might go back to Charlie Nicholas. In terms of youth advantage, Theo or Aaron. Every other major signing was backdoor, and credit to Wenger in his early years for knowing which doors to knock on - but that didn't last as long as people might think. Cole came through the ranks largely unnoticed. A player of the sort we've had in later years but nobody could progress. Speaking of Cole, that was the turning point in my mind, when we sold him to the chavs. The club was never the same after that. Didn't have the same feel about it. Big clubs going places would never sell their core talent to a rival. It was a sign something deeply rotten had taken hold of the club. So rotten later managers simply couldn't cope with it. When you let a loser mentality (or second best if you want to be kind) into a competitive environment you are doomed. Fucked.

[12gaugepump]

Arteta out.

[Marc Overmars]

Sounds like he’s had a falling out with David Luiz too. There’s just too much nonsense going on behind the scenes now, his man-management has been a disaster.

[Letters]

Sounds like he’s had a falling out with David Luiz too. There’s just too much nonsense going on behind the scenes now, his man-management has been a disaster.

Am wondering if the Özil thing is behind some of this.
He’s still around, he must still talk to the others.
Arteta has got that all wrong IMO, Özil wasn’t pulling up trees before the Covid break, but every bad result adds to the pressure on that decision.
Which doesn’t mean he is “the answer” but when you’ve left your highest paid player and one who is famed for creativity then results had better be decent while he’s not in the squad or every bad result is going to put scrutiny on that decision.

[Letters]

By the way, the Xhaka thing.
In the “modern game” that’s a sending off but it really wasn’t much.
Back in the day that would have been “handbags” and no one would have even been booked.
And if that’s a sending off then why did Elneny stay on the pitch?

[Marc Overmars]

It was handbags but with VAR now you have to be a dumb fuck to put your hands on an opponent like that. It was such a nothing incident that Xhaka turned into something and let everyone down. He’s had enough chances, I never want to see him again.

Not sure why Ceballos isn’t starting. We fought hard to get him back in the summer and now he can’t get a look in.

[WGC Goon]

I said when Kroenke took over the club that we would be in trouble, it will take strong leadership and big financial investment in the team to turn things around now but unfortunately we currently have neither. Let's hope whoever takes over from Arteta can the get the best out of the current squad and steer us away from the very real threat of relegation.

[Munchies]

"Granit Xhaka is albanian for dogshit footballer"

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/12/14/06/36811344-9050403-image-a-4_1607928616993.jpg

[Munchies]

The board need to sack him right now, not after Chelsea.

No good letting the next 2-3 games pass by and start the rolling process again

[Letters]

It was handbags but with VAR now you have to be a dumb fuck to put your hands on an opponent like that. It was such a nothing incident that Xhaka turned into something and let everyone down.
Elneny's was worse :shrug:
Xhaka's was at least in the heat of the moment, Elneny's was just petulant, no idea why he stayed on the pitch.

[Ralpheroo72]

Club has been run like we have a blind person in charge of sight seeing tours. We were regressing, and along comes Stan, then we just fell off a cliff. No idea who would save this lot, there’s about 2 players I like, the rest are a bunch of flogs bleeding us dry.

[Marc Overmars]

Elneny's was worse :shrug:
Xhaka's was at least in the heat of the moment, Elneny's was just petulant, no idea why he stayed on the pitch.

Yeah he should have gone too but that’s refereeing for you.

[Ollie the Optimist]

By the way, the Xhaka thing.
In the “modern game” that’s a sending off but it really wasn’t much.
Back in the day that would have been “handbags” and no one would have even been booked.
And if that’s a sending off then why did Elneny stay on the pitch?

I thought violent conduct was a red card or nothing. So how can the referee give a yellow for that? Also i thought VAR checks couldn’t recommend a yellow so what was the process?

But then again, the referees make it up as they go along, against Liverpool, Mane elbowed Tieney in the face but they didnt even bother reviewing it.

[Mac76]

Elneny's was worse :shrug:
Xhaka's was at least in the heat of the moment, Elneny's was just petulant, no idea why he stayed on the pitch.

Yeah, they were both red cards IMO, Arteta's lost control

[Letters]

What is the actual point of VAR?
It was supposed to sort this nonsense out, get decisions right and bring consistency.
We have two incidents in the same game which were almost identical, both were reviewed by VAR and one is upgraded to a red card and the other a yellow.
None of this is a defence of Xhaka but honestly, football is such a game for pussies these days. Back in the day that's not even a yellow.

[Mac76]

What is the actual point of VAR?
It was supposed to sort this nonsense out, get decisions right and bring consistency.
We have two incidents in the same game which were almost identical, both were reviewed by VAR and one is upgraded to a red card and the other a yellow.
None of this is a defence of Xhaka but honestly, football is such a game for pussies these days. Back in the day that's not even a yellow.

Well it should be a yellow tbf, but not a red

[Globalgunner]

Has he been sacked yet?

[Niall_Quinn]

Has he been sacked yet?

We're in the wanting period.

[Letters]

But don't you think Letters, that if we had gone for the best of the best, the Alegris and Simones we were all talking about then; maybe the dream of a fan like NQ would have had a better chance of coming true.
Possibly, although I think there's a lot of mess going on behind the scenes which is why I never felt that replacing Wenger was a silver bullet.
I never thought things could get this bad though.
It had to happen and the best thing about any manager now is they're not Wenger - in the sense that they don't come with his baggage and legacy, they're easier to move on from. But while the mess behind the scenes persists I don't know how effective any new manager can be.

[Ollie the Optimist]

What is the actual point of VAR?
It was supposed to sort this nonsense out, get decisions right and bring consistency.
We have two incidents in the same game which were almost identical, both were reviewed by VAR and one is upgraded to a red card and the other a yellow.
None of this is a defence of Xhaka but honestly, football is such a game for pussies these days. Back in the day that's not even a yellow.

except its being run by the same referees who get it wrong so often on the pitch.

it needs to follow the same format as rugby where the TMOs are separate to the referees. While they work together, they are not "mates" as such so have no issue calling each other up on mistakes in order to get the right decision.

here the same referees on the pitch also run VAR so just look to protect each other.

[IBK]

Possibly, although I think there's a lot of mess going on behind the scenes which is why I never felt that replacing Wenger was a silver bullet.
I never thought things could get this bad though.
It had to happen and the best thing about any manager now is they're not Wenger - in the sense that they don't come with his baggage and legacy, they're easier to move on from. But while the mess behind the scenes persists I don't know how effective any new manager can be.

Where to start?

I am astonished that things have got this bad. But I think it is misleading to 'blame' Wenger. What has led to this mess is the result of many factors, but principally the fact that the club came to rely on one man for all aspects of the football club; coaching, management; vision; recruitment...hell even financial affairs. Kroenke bought into this regime, having no experience of football, and bought a club effectively on automatic pilot.

Wenger's abilities declined over his last couple of years, but football also moved on. For some years it has not been possible have a successful EPL club without an accomplished combined team - coaching; director of football; recruitment; finances - all working to a clear vision. Even Wenger had David Dein sharing the load in his successful years. Gazidis was supposed to provide this oversight as Wenger retreated, but he bottled it and then pissed off at the very time that we needed him most.

Wenger's departure in fact laid bare the lack of any proper foundations at AFC, because his abilities over and above his coaching role were masking fundamental problems. The reality is that in these circumstances, Arsenal has been a potential disaster waiting to happen. Without proper executive club management in place, any subsequent football managers were never going to succeed. What has happened in the past 3 years however is nothing short of a perfect storm. Disruption; wholly unsuitable executive level appointments; management civil wars; no direction; no teamwork. And now we are left with a rookie manager who (to my surprise) appears not to have even the basics required; a rookie chief exectutive; and a technical director who also has no EPL experience and is clearly not up to the job. Arteta has shocked me over the last few weeks, but as Letters says, I fear for any manager in these circumstances.

So given that we have a owner with sole control of our club, yes the buck ultimately stops with Kroenke who is responsible for the running of the club, but if we are to blame him, for me its his naivity that is to blame rather than any suggestion that he has run the club down. But he has also been badly let down by those who he should have been able to rely on.

I try (usually), to maintain a degree of equanimity, but the extent and depth of the fundamental problems facing our club at all levels, if unaddressed, mean that we cannot rule out relegation. It has happened to other big clubs, and Arsenal has no God-given right to EPL status. I still don't think it will come to this, but I have come to realise that we should be under no illusions as to the seriousness of where we are. Happy days...

[Letters]

except its being run by the same referees who get it wrong so often on the pitch.

It honestly bemuses me how inept these guys are.
I remember having a debate with a friend when the referees were going professional. He said it wouldn't make them any better, I said of course it would.
He was right. I still don't understand why. Surely professionals should be better than amateurs by definition, yet here we are...

When it comes to VAR. The point is surely that refs are getting things wrong because they only get to see things once in real time from one angle.
Often we were in a situation where you'd have the entire crowd knowing that the ref had got a decision wrong but the one person who needed to know didn't.
So VAR checks doesn't imply any criticism of a referee, it's just that humanly you're going to get decisions wrong where with technology you should be able to get them right. And yet they're still getting them wrong. What you say doesn't make any sense - refs don't need to "protect" each other, this is just about using technology to get things right. Which doesn't mean you're wrong of course.

[selassie]

This is Arteta’s mess in fairness. The Ozil situation probably cost him the respect of the players, ask anyone in that squad who is the best player and I bet they will say Ozil.

I think him trying to lay down the law has backfired massively. Even Saliba was taking the piss the other day.
Not sure how happy the young players are either having to watch this rubbish while they at least do their job with some grace in the euro shit cup.

Unhappy squad = writing on the wall.

:gp:

[Bumble]

I think where video assistance works is with yes or no decisions. Offsides work. Goal line works. But once you leave interpretation in then the decisions can be varied. Elneny not getting sent off was bizarre. Some penalties given some not. Just dont think VAR is as cut and dry as with cricket or rugby. It might take a few years to iron out the creases after all.

[WGC Goon]

Kroenke bought into this regime, having no experience of football, and bought a club effectively on automatic pilot.

Stan Kroenke doesn't care about Arsenal FC, we are merely an asset to him that he will cash in on when and where it suits him. He turned down Usmanov's reportedly final offer of £2bn for the club but that's nothing to do with the fact he loves Arsenal and wants to invest in it, we are merely a financial nest egg sitting there nicely in case he needs to use it for another commercial project. Trust me, we will not be challenging for the league any time soon because the investment just won't be there, depressing but all very real.

[selassie]

Stan Kroenke doesn't care about Arsenal FC, we are merely an asset to him that he will cash in on when and where it suits him. He turned down Usmanov's reportedly final offer of £2bn for the club but that's nothing to do with the fact he loves Arsenal and wants to invest in it, we are merely a financial nest egg sitting there nicely in case he needs to use it for another commercial project. Trust me, we will not be challenging for the league any time soon because the investment just won't be there, depressing but all very real.

Kroenke's aren't the issue, yes I would rather someone else who is football focused and actually cares about Arsenal run the club, but the Kroenke's have been investing in the team.

We are a mid table club and the past few seasons have spent / wasted millions on attempting to improve the team.

Money isn't the issue here.

[Mac76]

Kroenke's aren't the issue, yes I would rather someone else who is football focused and actually cares about Arsenal run the club, but the Kroenke's have been investing in the team.

We are a mid table club and the past few seasons have spent / wasted millions on attempting to improve the team.

Money isn't the issue here.

:gp:

the only mistake the Kroenkes have made is trusting a crook like Raul and then a non-hoper like Edu

they need to find somone who can steer the club in the right direction.

[Chippy]

Kroenke's aren't the issue, yes I would rather someone else who is football focused and actually cares about Arsenal run the club, but the Kroenke's have been investing in the team.

We are a mid table club and the past few seasons have spent / wasted millions on attempting to improve the team.

Money isn't the issue here.

Mid Table!?!?

I wish!

Maybe you should check and have a look where we are :)

[IBK]

Kroenke's aren't the issue, yes I would rather someone else who is football focused and actually cares about Arsenal run the club, but the Kroenke's have been investing in the team.

We are a mid table club and the past few seasons have spent / wasted millions on attempting to improve the team.

Money isn't the issue here.

:gp: The Kroenke's issue is lack of experience in runnning a 'soccer' team, not investment.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah. They’ve reinvested the profits and we can’t say we’ve been left wanting in recent transfer windows. We’ve actually all been relatively satisfied with the business at first glance too. The problem is once these players become fully Arsenalfied they turn to shit.

The Kroenke’s failure has been to employ a decent hierarchy capable of building and running a competitive club. Look at all the chopping and changing that’s gone on over the last few seasons. Smacks of a lack strategy and direction.

[IBK]

Yeah. They’ve reinvested the profits and we can’t say we’ve been left wanting in recent transfer windows. We’ve actually all been relatively satisfied with the business at first glance too. The problem is once these players become fully Arsenalfied they turn to shit.

The Kroenke’s failure has been to employ a decent hierarchy capable of building and running a competitive club. Look at all the chopping and changing that’s gone on over the last few seasons. Smacks of a lack strategy and direction.

Agreed - though the owners have also been let down badly by those appointed to run the club. My view is that this is a problem exacerbated by over-reliance on AW while he was here. It would have been better to move AW upstairs - at least for a transition period. The perfect storm was Gazidis leaving also when he did. The failure to replace Gazidis with someone else experience with running an EPl club was perhaps the biggest mistake made...