Do we need a new manager?

[IBK]

OK deliberately provocative title - but hear me out. This isn't about how bad a job Arteta is doing, its about the alternatives.

What do we need most? Its a tried and tested but hungry young manager with a track record who can clear out the dross and take us forward with a long term vision and help to de-'Arsenal' our club.

But I don't think there is a manager with the profile and talent we need in world football who would touch us at the moment, given the obvious mess not just our team, but our entire club seems to be in. Why would an ambitious coach in the mould of, say a Klopp touch us, when we are in a shambles and its obvious that the club does not have what it takes at executive or football director level to thrive? Pochettino? Brendan Rodgers? Why would they even want the job?

The alternative? An Allegri type who will steady the ship and stop the freefall. But for what? To finish 8th place? This type of manager ain't going to achieve what we so badly need. He would be a stop gap. Look at Mourinho at Manure - that went well didn't it? There is no guarantee even bringing in some experience. In the meantime, the club spunks millions on the severance pay of Arteta and his team, and millions more on a stop gap. And the culture that continues to hold us back goes unaddressed.

Plus - and this is an important point - with lack of direction at senior exectutive level, how much damage does yet further churn do to an already foundering ship?

What do we really want? Not to be relegated? Because that is the real choice this season. It matters not in real terms whether we finish 15th or 10th.

Is there a case for (as I have heard from some sources), bringing in a player or 2 in January that at least tries to ensure EPL safety under Arteta, and leaving him to finish the season, while looking seriously at spending the money to bring in someone above him who has the credentials to stop the rot? Then plan properly instead of yet more instability over the short term.

Thoughts?

[GP]

Wenger in

[Marc Overmars]

I think we do need a better coach but it’s difficult to say who because the players are such a mess right now, I’m not sure what can be salvaged this season regardless of who’s in charge.

I’m actually leaning towards just letting the season play out and allowing Arteta to decide what he wants to do with the rope given to him.

[Letters]

I'm a bit conflicted.
I don't want us be one of those clubs who hops from manager to manager. That rarely works.
That said, Arteta has no proven record as a manager. He was always a punt. He won us the FA Cup and that certainly bought him some good will and time, but this season has been a complete car crash.
I like Arteta and he certainly talks a good game. And I have to say we have been getting some really bad luck recently. But the way we are playing is not inspiring, we don't dominate teams. We do in terms of possession but when's the last time we actually battered a team. Even when we have got wins they've been close and scrappy. It was a good result and performance at Old Trafford but we created very little, but for a silly penalty it would have petered out to a 0-0. West Ham we got a late winner but it wasn't convincing.
Forget the Chelsea game - we night get something but I'm more interested in the 2 games after that where we're playing teams round us. If we get poor results in those then he surely has to go.

[Marc Overmars]

What we certainly don’t need to do though, is spend money in January to get us out of this mess. We will end up with the completely wrong profile of player.

The young players care enough about to the club and their careers to have some kind of impact. Use them.

[Mac76]

Arteta out

There you can close the thread now...

[Slacker]

I want Arteta to work but he seems to make bad decisions the whole time. Surely Saliba deserves a chance before he's tearing it up at Bayern in a couple of years. Guendouzi the same.

Arteta seems to make his mind up quickly about players yet he persists with proven failures. I'm sorry he is killing our Club and the Board don't give a flying fuck because they appointed him.

Sack the Board, sack the manager. Bring back David Dein.

[IBK]

Arteta out

There you can close the thread now...

..and the alternative? Where do you think that leaves us?

Again, I'm not saying that I don't think Arteta should go - but we need to think about timing and what we really expect to happen if he does go. I wonder whether sacking him now puts us even further from where we want to go than sticking with him for the rest of the season and at least planning properly for a replacement.

[IBK]

What we certainly don’t need to do though, is spend money in January to get us out of this mess. We will end up with the completely wrong profile of player.

The young players care enough about to the club and their careers to have some kind of impact. Use them.

Hmmm - for me it depends whether its the right thing to do for Arteta to see the season out. If so - maybe we do need a signing or 2 to make sure we stay up?? Not big money of course, just someone who can ensure Xhaka never plays again and maybe a target man if we are going to insist on crosses??

[IBK]

I'm a bit conflicted.
I don't want us be one of those clubs who hops from manager to manager. That rarely works.
That said, Arteta has no proven record as a manager. He was always a punt. He won us the FA Cup and that certainly bought him some good will and time, but this season has been a complete car crash.
I like Arteta and he certainly talks a good game. And I have to say we have been getting some really bad luck recently. But the way we are playing is not inspiring, we don't dominate teams. We do in terms of possession but when's the last time we actually battered a team. Even when we have got wins they've been close and scrappy. It was a good result and performance at Old Trafford but we created very little, but for a silly penalty it would have petered out to a 0-0. West Ham we got a late winner but it wasn't convincing.
Forget the Chelsea game - we night get something but I'm more interested in the 2 games after that where we're playing teams round us. If we get poor results in those then he surely has to go.

I pretty much agree with you. I am very worried about where having to replace him leaves our club though. Anyone coming in will be short term only and will have to deal with senior players and cliques that we need shot of so badly...

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This job and the enormity of the decay this club has suffered for more than a decade was always a tall ask for any Rookie, and every serious football mind knew this. Lets not forget that Freddie (who at least had managed our youth team) was the experiment before Arteta and it was clear that anyone learning on the job would need to work miracles to revive this carcass that is now Arsenal football club!

When I say clearly that football clubs should only be owned and run by people who actually love and appreciate the game (fans of the game first) you all seem not to understand how integral this is to getting us back to what we use to be.

Anyway, like I said and felt before we appointed the Rookie, a coach who understands this league would be better for us, especially in the stage we are in now.

Ancelotti has recovered from his bad patch which was pretty predictable. He was my first choice before the suits went with Arteta. He is still achievable but surely only at the end of the season now.

I had mentioned Rodgers before the Emery pick and that was snubbed by gooners who usually turn up their noses at anything not European or "exotic". I don't think he will leave Leicester for us anymore though (maybe pre-Arteta but not now).

For the majority of the spoilt fans with "exotic" tastes and that "we want to be the example" attitude, I still think the Wolves coach, Nuno Espirito Santo would leave this team solid, pretty much the defensive work Arteta has achieved, but with the experience and nous to actually manage and get the best from experienced and older players.

I once uttered the words "we deserve a Mourinho after Wenger" and though I still think he would have shook this club and done a better job than any of our poor picks so far, I am also now of the mind that once he went through his inevitable bad patch, he might have done more harm to psyche of our young players and the club that even 50 years of Wenger could never replicate! I am also happy he's been quoted severally saying he'd never take the job.

The foreign big names are all up there to but I honestly think it would be too much of a gamble with the current poor state we are in.

Rebuilding, if you are doing it the right way, can take ages and several managers, Liverpool of the 80's and Man U of now should be the stories we look at, the worst thing we can do is give up and revert to our snobby and lazy attitude..... to make it clear, this would be putting all our eggs in the Arteta basket.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I'm a bit conflicted.
I don't want us be one of those clubs who hops from manager to manager. That rarely works.
That said, Arteta has no proven record as a manager. He was always a punt. He won us the FA Cup and that certainly bought him some good will and time, but this season has been a complete car crash.
I like Arteta and he certainly talks a good game. And I have to say we have been getting some really bad luck recently. But the way we are playing is not inspiring, we don't dominate teams. We do in terms of possession but when's the last time we actually battered a team. Even when we have got wins they've been close and scrappy. It was a good result and performance at Old Trafford but we created very little, but for a silly penalty it would have petered out to a 0-0. West Ham we got a late winner but it wasn't convincing.
Forget the Chelsea game - we night get something but I'm more interested in the 2 games after that where we're playing teams round us. If we get poor results in those then he surely has to go.

You are not conflicted, your post clearly shows you are not happy with Arteta's style of play or the results.

I think we should simplify this guys: we are not choosing life partners, we are choosing coaches, they come and go...... SAF and AW are once in a lifetime exceptions and we can see the damage both of them have done to their clubs.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The culture of any organisation is set from the top.

The owner has one objective, and it isn’t success on the football pitch.

Chances are, we’ll stay up and he’ll keep making money.

[Bumble]

You are not conflicted, your post clearly shows you are not happy with Arteta's style of play or the results.

I think we should simplify this guys: we are not choosing life partners, we are choosing coaches, they come and go...... SAF and AW are once in a lifetime exceptions and we can see the damage both of them have done to their clubs.

What damage did SAF do to united. They won the league in his last season? Unless it was setting ridiculously high standards.

Did wenger really ruin arsenal, he probably hung around longer than he should have. But the decisions since signings, structure of the club with raul etc. There are some poor signings left from the era. But both coaches have followed the same pattern. Start really well, team plays high intensity closing down football however this overtime stops and goes back to something dull and ineffective. No coach guarantees anything but there are coaches out there who will be able to fix the issues, it could be the next appointment the one after that. Artetas appointment only works if he is going to give the young players a go. Like smith rowe amn willock neilsen nketiah etc as least it would look like a plan. But arteta is lucky there are no crowds.

[IBK]

The culture of any organisation is set from the top.

The owner has one objective, and it isn’t success on the football pitch.

Chances are, we’ll stay up and he’ll keep making money.

I have to disagree with the idea that the shit show we are in is down to our owners not caring about how we do on the pitch. There is a degree of absenteeism that has affected us in the past - but the role of Josh Kroenke more recently and most recently the appointment of Tim Lewis has sought to address this. Lewis was instrumental in ridding us of the cancer that was Raul Sanllehi.

The Kroenkes seemed content for AW to lowball player investment, but over the past couple of years our more recent player spend - both in transfer fees and wages has been high. High enough in my view to scotch this idea that the owner is bleeding the club dry while refusing to invest in players.

IMO it is a lazy and over simplistic view to claim that Arsenal is the victim of the owners' lack of ambition. Our problems derive from 2 core issues, IMO. Firstly a refusal to accept the reality that we are no longer a top 4 club. This is the reason why 'quick fix' decisions continue to be made in terms of recruitment, and also why successive managers try to find the impossible solution of making a disparate core group of senior players click rather than starting from the bottom up.

Secondly, complacency. For years now our players - at least the senior ones - have operated in a pampered bubble where there are (for most) no consequences for under-performance, and lack the fight and committment that we so badly need. Also, we keep giving players the benefit of the doubt that they will come good, or reward them financially with new contracts that reward past performances where our successful competitors take pragmatic decisions about current, and future usefulness and tailor new contracts accordingly. In an era where players have far too much power generally our club is a soft touch and many of our current players see the club as serving them rather than the other way round. This is one of the biggest issues with AW's legacy, that the Kroenkes bought into.

If the owners are at fault, it is for their naivety and failure to understand the dynamics at play at our club, not their committment to exploiting the club. Lack of leadership at the very top maybe, but not the lack of ambition that has become accepted wisdom for many.

[Ralpheroo72]

Should never have left Highbury, the Emirates has ruined the club. No soul, no direction, just a vehicle to make money for an absentee owner.

[IBK]

This job and the enormity of the decay this club has suffered for more than a decade was always a tall ask for any Rookie, and every serious football mind knew this. Lets not forget that Freddie (who at least had managed our youth team) was the experiment before Arteta and it was clear that anyone learning on the job would need to work miracles to revive this carcass that is now Arsenal football club!

When I say clearly that football clubs should only be owned and run by people who actually love and appreciate the game (fans of the game first) you all seem not to understand how integral this is to getting us back to what we use to be.

Anyway, like I said and felt before we appointed the Rookie, a coach who understands this league would be better for us, especially in the stage we are in now.

Ancelotti has recovered from his bad patch which was pretty predictable. He was my first choice before the suits went with Arteta. He is still achievable but surely only at the end of the season now.

I had mentioned Rodgers before the Emery pick and that was snubbed by gooners who usually turn up their noses at anything not European or "exotic". I don't think he will leave Leicester for us anymore though (maybe pre-Arteta but not now).

For the majority of the spoilt fans with "exotic" tastes and that "we want to be the example" attitude, I still think the Wolves coach, Nuno Espirito Santo would leave this team solid, pretty much the defensive work Arteta has achieved, but with the experience and nous to actually manage and get the best from experienced and older players.

I once uttered the words "we deserve a Mourinho after Wenger" and though I still think he would have shook this club and done a better job than any of our poor picks so far, I am also now of the mind that once he went through his inevitable bad patch, he might have done more harm to psyche of our young players and the club that even 50 years of Wenger could never replicate! I am also happy he's been quoted severally saying he'd never take the job.

The foreign big names are all up there to but I honestly think it would be too much of a gamble with the current poor state we are in.

Rebuilding, if you are doing it the right way, can take ages and several managers, Liverpool of the 80's and Man U of now should be the stories we look at, the worst thing we can do is give up and revert to our snobby and lazy attitude..... to make it clear, this would be putting all our eggs in the Arteta basket.

Depends for how long. We have (mistakenly in my view) put all our eggs in Arteta's basket - particularly with what now seems to be a disastrous decision to make him manager, rather than spreading the risk of his inexperience by having a director of football above him. Common sense for me says that this needs to be addressed. but as I said in the OP the real question is what the benefit of replacing him now will be when we are arguably at our lowest point and the likelihood is that anyone coming in won't have the credentials to do anything but at best improve our finishing position this season by a few places. If rebuilding this basket case will take time, then the next managerial decision should surely be with a view to the longer term - and the decision itself should not be rushed.

[Gooner23]

The issues at the club run way deeper than just the manager; however the decisions Arteta is making are increasingly bizarre and the 'brand' of football just cannot be defended. For that reason I reluctantly do think he needs to go.

If he was blooding more of the youth players and showing some signs of progress I think he would earn more time and patience.

But if Arteta goes then so must Edu. Both seem out of their depth.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Depends for how long. We have (mistakenly in my view) put all our eggs in Arteta's basket - particularly with what now seems to be a disastrous decision to make him manager, rather than spreading the risk of his inexperience by having a director of football above him. Common sense for me says that this needs to be addressed. but as I said in the OP the real question is what the benefit of replacing him now will be when we are arguably at our lowest point and the likelihood is that anyone coming in won't have the credentials to do anything but at best improve our finishing position this season by a few places. If rebuilding this basket case will take time, then the next managerial decision should surely be with a view to the longer term - and the decision itself should not be rushed.

Replacing Arteta immediately is something I have not yet made up my mind on, mainly because I can't see any options besides Pooch and our season is already over.

However I have made up my mind that there is nothing special about Arteta and he's definitely not the genius we were sold (sounds familiar right). This realisation is all that matters IMO and if I was making decisions for Arsenal would guide everything I do from henceforth.... simply put , we need a new manager.

Anything else is just repeating the same mistakes we made with Emery and killing the team further.

[Mac76]

The issues at the club run way deeper than just the manager; however the decisions Arteta is making are increasingly bizarre and the 'brand' of football just cannot be defended. For that reason I reluctantly do think he needs to go.

If he was blooding more of the youth players and showing some signs of progress I think he would earn more time and patience.

But if Arteta goes then so must Edu. Both seem out of their depth.

:gp:

[IBK]

Replacing Arteta immediately is something I have not yet made up my mind on, mainly because I can't see any options besides Pooch and our season is already over.

However I have made up my mind that there is nothing special about Arteta and he's definitely not the genius we were sold (sounds familiar right). This realisation is all that matters IMO and if I was making decisions for Arsenal would guide everything I do from henceforth.... simply put , we need a new manager.

Anything else is just repeating the same mistakes we made with Emery and killing the team further.

Yeah - I can relate to that. It's kind of against my better judgement to write Arteta off already - given the deeper issues at our club, and the fact that once you appoint an inexperienced manager you have to allow him to make mistakes. But the reason why I think I have now done so is the non-tactical decisions that he has made (not that he is looking like a tactical genius either). Good judgment; clarity of purpose and good man management are all attributes that even an inexperienced manager should be able to display, but as far as we can tell, Arteta has shown none of this and I cannot see how this is going to improve.

So yes, I think we need a new manager. But I think also that we need to trust Arteta not to get us relegated (and possibly make a pragmatic January signing to help this), and keep him to the end of the season on the basis that proper plans are made in the mentime to get the appointment that we need, because this experiment is not working.

[Marc Overmars]

Arteta may well go on to have a bright future but for whatever reason he’s struggling with the cards he’s been dealt. The job might just be too big for him as it would be for any rookie.

Di Matteo won Chelsea the CL but he hasn’t been heard of since. This game isn’t for everyone and we haven’t really seen anything innovative or special from Arteta that suggests he could be some kind of trailblazer. I just seen a bog standard coach with no real ideas and tactics straight out of a coaching for dummies book.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The issues at the club run way deeper than just the manager; however the decisions Arteta is making are increasingly bizarre and the 'brand' of football just cannot be defended. For that reason I reluctantly do think he needs to go.

If he was blooding more of the youth players and showing some signs of progress I think he would earn more time and patience.

But if Arteta goes then so must Edu. Both seem out of their depth.

Over and over I say this and people do not get the import of this.

When we had the Dein/AW combo we were successful, competitive and going somewhere. Despite the whole world acclaiming AW a genius, practically every big footballing decision he made was actually left to Dein, who could agree or overrule at anytime, just like he did to AW in the Cashley saga (a decision I still hate till now).

Dein was the guy who supported Wenger when he deviated from our model of buying bargain foreign talent to developing young players... Fabregas still confirmed that it was Dein who kidnapped him from Barca and gave he and his parents their first jobs here! BTW he was left with little option than agreeing to a cheaper model as the board had overruled him in staying at Highbury (he argued that the money we would spend on the stadium should be invested in the team instead as he saw increased competition coming; note it wasn't AW who made this argument, it was DEIN). Eventually when he was proven right about the need to invest in the squad and the premiership had changed dramatically with the coming of Roman and others, it was still the same Dein who singlehandedly went shopping for the "right" kind of Sugar Daddy for us so we could compete. We all know the story from here.

My point is that an Exec who is foremost a football person, will definitely make better decisions , especially in the long run, than any so called business genius could. Abramovich is finally reaping his rewards and dividends from Chelsea because he made decisions as a fan of the game first and not as an Exec. Most analysts thought at first he would never recoup his investment and couldn't understand what he was doing chopping and changing managers, but now look who is laughing.

Our leadership must come from on top; till this is sorted, we won't see any significant change or get back to where we use to be.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2019/07/07/our-transfer-dealings-would-be-different-with-david-dein-in-praise-of-our-former-vice-chairman/

[selassie]

The issues at the club run way deeper than just the manager; however the decisions Arteta is making are increasingly bizarre and the 'brand' of football just cannot be defended. For that reason I reluctantly do think he needs to go.

If he was blooding more of the youth players and showing some signs of progress I think he would earn more time and patience.

But if Arteta goes then so must Edu. Both seem out of their depth.

:gp:

Absolutely this.

Both of them are way out of their depth IMO.

[Coney]

Over and over I say this and people do not get the import of this.

When we had the Dein/AW combo we were successful, competitive and going somewhere. Despite the whole world acclaiming AW a genius, practically every big footballing decision he made was actually left to Dein, who could agree or overrule at anytime, just like he did to AW in the Cashley saga (a decision I still hate till now).

Dein was the guy who supported Wenger when he deviated from our model of buying bargain foreign talent to developing young players... Fabregas still confirmed that it was Dein who kidnapped him from Barca and gave he and his parents their first jobs here! BTW he was left with little option than agreeing to a cheaper model as the board had overruled him in staying at Highbury (he argued that the money we would spend on the stadium should be invested in the team instead as he saw increased competition coming; note it wasn't AW who made this argument, it was DEIN). Eventually when he was proven right about the need to invest in the squad and the premiership had changed dramatically with the coming of Roman and others, it was still the same Dein who singlehandedly went shopping for the "right" kind of Sugar Daddy for us so we could compete. We all know the story from here.

My point is that an Exec who is foremost a football person, will definitely make better decisions , especially in the long run, than any so called business genius could. Abramovich is finally reaping his rewards and dividends from Chelsea because he made decisions as a fan of the game first and not as an Exec. Most analysts thought at first he would never recoup his investment and couldn't understand what he was doing chopping and changing managers, but now look who is laughing.

Our leadership must come from on top; till this is sorted, we won't see any significant change or get back to where we use to be.


:gp:

However, my understanding of the Cashley Cole issue is that he had a verbal agreement with Dein and it was the board who overrode it. Dein disappeared not long after that. Wenger was not pleased and, for the only time I remember, gave away the board by saying it was 'ridiculous to lose a player over 5K'.

[Bumble]

:gp:

However, my understanding of the Cashley Cole issue is that he had a verbal agreement with Dein and it was the board who overrode it. Dein disappeared not long after that. Wenger was not pleased and, for the only time I remember, gave away the board by saying it was 'ridiculous to lose a player over 5K'.

yeah i heard the same thing. he was one of the best players to come through at Arsenal. i know to us 55k or 60k a week is still alot of money but for a footballer it can be the principle plus he would have got even more at Chelsea. a players career is short and weddings, divorces and extravagence doesnt buy itself.

[Coney]

weddings, divorces and extravagence doesnt buy itself.

:d

[I am invisible]

Tricky one... there’s probably not much point in bringing in a new coach much before the summer (and it needs to be a coach, not a manager) when a glut of senior contracts expire and we’ll actually have something for them to work with.

But at that point the job will also get considerably easier for Arteta too? Difficult to say how much of what we’re seeing atm is down to genuine inability as a coach, or just a rookie being saddled with an uncoachable, unbalanced, catastrophically flawed senior playing staff and way, way too many fires to put out?

I’ve got to say, my hopes for him have been badly rocked since the Utd game, but I can still be won around in the second part of the season. Needs to be a hell of a turnaround though! I want to see what he does after the January window has closed, and the final chance of clawing back any kind of money for certain senior players has gone. If he still persists with them beyond that point, and doesn’t put his efforts fully behind the future, then he definitely needs to go.

Before we can even begin to think about new coaches, though, it’s absolutely imperative that we get rid of Edu, otherwise this is the guy who is going to be making the next hire. And unless Vinnai has the stones to give Edu his marching orders (and demote Arteta back to head coach) then he might need to go as well, as this whole chain of moves begins with him.

In fact the whole chain probably starts with overhauling the board, otherwise who oversees the CEO?

[Marc Overmars]

Difficult to say how much of what we’re seeing atm is down to genuine inability as a coach, or just a rookie being saddled with an uncoachable, unbalanced, catastrophically flawed senior playing staff and way, way too many fires to put out?



Hmm, weren’t we all encouraged last season that he did manage to work with what he had though? That was his biggest achievement, so to speak. The group of players had already been deemed uncoachable but he organised them and at one point they even looked like a reasonably solid unit. He took credit for that then so it can’t suddenly be the players now.

I just think he’s an average coach who’s dug his own grave with multiple decisions that have backfired horrendously.

However I do believe he should be left to finish the job this season. Then we can have absolutely no doubt about the decision facing us.

[I am invisible]

Hmm, weren’t we all encouraged last season that he did manage to work with what he had though? That was his biggest achievement, so to speak. The group of players had already been deemed uncoachable but he organised them and at one point they even looked like a reasonably solid unit. He took credit for that then so it can’t suddenly be the players now.

I just think he’s an average coach who’s dug his own grave with multiple decisions that have backfired horrendously.

However I do believe he should be left to finish the job this season. Then we can have absolutely no doubt about the decision facing us.
Yeah, I really don’t know what to make of him as a coach right now - really struggling to marry up what we saw in the second half of last season with what we’ve seen over the last couple of months and work out what’s gone wrong? Sometimes you get brief glimpses of what Artetaball could be, and it looks pretty good, but mostly it’s not, and it’s a little alarming that the good moments are always so fleeting. I’m worried that he’s either an elite assistant coach who is great at working with individuals, but not necessarily a ‘big picture’ guy who knows how to implement a vision; or he’s bringing ideas that require peak Man City levels of talent and mindset to execute, which is no good to us.

I’m starting to think that last season’s turnaround was probably down to motivated self-interest as much as coaching. Arteta changed the shape of the side and taught the players a few quick tricks to minimise their weaknesses - he still gets a lot of credit for that - but looking back at it I’m guessing that he also negotiated some kind of temporary truce / deal with many of the senior players that was critical to that success; “do what I ask and give me your best effort for another 5 months, and I’ll get you a much better move in the summer / bumper new contract / etc”. But then COVID happened, everyone had their wages cut, and we’ve all ended up stuck with each other after another disastrous summer of trying (and failing) to move most of them on.

The problem we now have with most of our senior players is that they know they’re not wanted, and the closer they get to the end of their deals, the less we have at our disposal to motivate them. At this point there’s no incentive there for them - no one’s opened talks over extending contracts and there’s certainly not going to be one last shot at glory - and there’s nothing we can threaten them with either. We can’t even guilt-trip them by playing the loyalty card. Loyalty to who? The people who signed most of them are all long gone, and their relationship with the fans must be broken beyond all repair by now. If these guys have decided that they’ve had enough and can’t be arsed any more then I don’t think there’s anything that any coach is going to be able to wring out of them - we’re just going to have to ride it out until the summer when hopefully enough of them will fuck off to make a difference.

As you say, we might as well give Arteta the rest of the season now a) to see if he has it in him to turn it around and b) because I don’t see the point in chucking another new coach onto this bonfire - anyone new coming in would be on a hiding to nothing if they can in now. (Also, we can’t afford anyone good, and we’ve got absolutely fuck all to offer them until the summer anyway.)

One thing I can say without any hesitation, though: Arteta is definitely not a manager, and knocking him back down to head coach is something that can (and should) be done immediately. If Edu can’t do his job without a manager there to share the load with then he’s not the right man for the job and he should go. Quite frankly he should be fired anyway, as this season is his second strike after his part in last season’s shit show and dodgy dealings.

[hobson's choice]

I want to give him a chance, but I just don't see a plan. Especially with the development off our younger players.

[I am invisible]

Yeah, I’m confused by the total non-use of the younger players. I know he’s said in the past that it shouldn’t fall on them to sort this mess out - that it’s the senior players’ responsibility - but, whilst I agree with that in principle, it’s got to be pretty clear at this point that we’re all out of options. Too many of the senior players have mentally checked out and we’re facing catastrophe if we don’t come up with half a new starting XI pretty bloody quick!

I suppose there’s also physical issues and duty of care to consider with developing players? Overplay them too early in their careers and we’ll end up with a bunch of Wilsheres (just look at Martinelli, ESR and Saliba who are already working their way back from major, long-term injuries). It’s got to be a factor in their thinking - I’m just hoping that we’ll maybe see a little more reliance on them in the tail end of the season, when there’s only 4-5 months left to play and we’re out of the cups with less games per week (and more recovery time)? Not much evidence to base that on though - kind of clutching at straws here.

[Slacker]

I think there is a quick fix in there already. Play the youngsters and persist with them. Stop playing the likes of Xhaka, Mustafi, Luiz, Chambers, Kolasinac and Elneny because we are still dogshit with them anyway. At least the youngsters have a chance of either proving they can step up to the plate or they can't cut it.

We have players on loan like Guendouzi, Torreira and Mavropanos and Ozil doing nothing when they are better than what Arteta chucks in week in week out. He's clearly not a very good man manager because he lets personality issues get in the way when he should be above it. Should have gone for Potch even though he's a Spud.

Arteta is shit. Sack him.

The Board aren't blameless either. They rejected Abramovich and he made Chelsea CL winners. They then rejected Usmanov and he's now bankrolling Everton. Stan doesn't give a fuck and they knew that when they appointed him. OK Manc City and Chelsea have bought their success, but they'e in a better position than we are.

[Mac76]

I think there is a quick fix in there already. Play the youngsters and persist with them. Stop playing the likes of Xhaka, Mustafi, Luiz, Chambers, Kolasinac and Elneny because we are still dogshit with them anyway. At least the youngsters have a chance of either proving they can step up to the plate or they can't cut it.

We have players on loan like Guendouzi, Torreira and Mavropanos and Ozil doing nothing when they are better than what Arteta chucks in week in week out. He's clearly not a very good man manager because he lets personality issues get in the way when he should be above it. Should have gone for Potch even though he's a Spud.

Arteta is shit. Sack him.

The Board aren't blameless either. They rejected Abramovich and he made Chelsea CL winners. They then rejected Usmanov and he's now bankrolling Everton. Stan doesn't give a fuck and they knew that when they appointed him. OK Manc City and Chelsea have bought their success, but they'e in a better position than we are.

agree with most of this, though Chambers is a good utility player who gives a shit and should get more game time if anything

[Bumble]

We complain about arteta wonder if chelsea complain about lampard. Reckon he is out of his depth too. We are only 3 points behind.

[Gooner23]

Could be fired soon according to the Athletic, amazing the difference a week makes

[WGC Goon]

I'm amazed by the teams turnaround simply because we made a couple of changes to the starting XI. Smith Rowe could save us from potentially wasting a serious amount of money spent panic buying in the January sales. How does everyone feel about Arteta now?

[Bumble]

I'm amazed by the teams turnaround simply because we made a couple of changes to the starting XI. Smith Rowe could save us from potentially wasting a serious amount of money spent panic buying in the January sales. How does everyone feel about Arteta now?

think it helps scoring the first goal - I am sure if CHelsea scored first we would have lost. But winning builds confidence so next time we go behind we should have a better idea how to score goals rather than just lumping it into the box

[Marc Overmars]

I'm amazed by the teams turnaround simply because we made a couple of changes to the starting XI. Smith Rowe could save us from potentially wasting a serious amount of money spent panic buying in the January sales. How does everyone feel about Arteta now?

Happy he's backed some fresh faces in the team, even if they probably were forced changes but they've been positive changes none the less.

3 wins doesn't really change a huge amount in my thinking because it is a salvage operation now thanks to the damage that was already done. If we can go on a 10 game unbeaten run or something like that and maybe even haul ourselves into top 4 contention then I would feel like the tide has truly turned. There's just too much evidence for this team flaking though, so it is hard to be convinced it won't happen again.

I suspect the second half of the season will now be similar to last year when we were just floating around mid table and occasionally threatening the top 6.

[Slacker]

I'm amazed by the teams turnaround simply because we made a couple of changes to the starting XI. Smith Rowe could save us from potentially wasting a serious amount of money spent panic buying in the January sales. How does everyone feel about Arteta now?

My opinion hasn't changed on Arteta as he should have been playing youngsters from the off. We're not very good and we're not going down. The fans pretty much know what's required yet Arteta seems to be blind.

Now it's reported we're offloading Saliba without giving him a fair crack of the whip yet he persists with Mustafi and Kolasinac. Sorry Mikel, I'm out.

[Letters]

I'm amazed by the teams turnaround simply because we made a couple of changes to the starting XI. Smith Rowe could save us from potentially wasting a serious amount of money spent panic buying in the January sales. How does everyone feel about Arteta now?
Still not sure about Arteta but there’s more of a case for him to be given a full season at least.
It’s nice to be eyeing up the sides above us rather than nervously looking at the ones below.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm amazed by the teams turnaround simply because we made a couple of changes to the starting XI. Smith Rowe could save us from potentially wasting a serious amount of money spent panic buying in the January sales. How does everyone feel about Arteta now?

I increasingly get the feeling these high powered managers know about as much as the average fan does when it comes to picking a team. Head says that can't be true, because why the big money? Eyes say look at the shitty players that keep getting picked.