How to solve the Nicolas Pepe Problem?

[selassie]

This is by no means a player hate thread and I do actually like some aspects to Pepe's game. I think there is no denying we have a real problem in our squad with him, 72Million pounds even in that market we bought him in should give you the finished product.

If we are being truly honest, Gabrielle Martinelli who cost a 10th of his price looks a far better player and adds a lot more to this team than Pepe.

Pepe has shown flashes of star quality, but by and large his game has been inconsistent, at times woeful and he doesn't strike me as someone with a strong character and tough mentality.

For me, it's come to the point where we have to accept this guy isn't the one, he has flopped under 3 different managers now...none of them trust him. At best he comes across as a squad player to me, one we will never get anywhere near to our investment back if he was put on the market.

Thoughts?

[I am invisible]

I’d take the loss on Pepe and try to move him on this summer. Nothing against him personally, but he just doesn’t fit with what we’re trying to do - too one-footed and predictable, and I never feel like he’s completely part of the team when he’s out there.

[Marc Overmars]

He’s capable of producing something out of nothing - however as mentioned he’s too predictable and easy to read, shows too much of the ball to his opponent and I also think he isn’t up to standard physically.

Saying that because of his ability to produce something from nothing, I think he can be useful but he’s certainly not someone to rely on. If he left then I wouldn’t really care but for the remainder of the season I would still try to get a tune out of him.

He’s no team player that is for sure though. If he’s not on the end of an attack then he doesn’t really provide much.

[Gooner23]

Assuming that Saka will switch to the right now we have Martinelli / Auba on the left. Pepe gives us some cover for the remainder of the season, but I'd also look to cut losses in the summer and move him on. Not the player we hoped for. I think he'll always be too inconsistent and frustrating.

[selassie]

Aye, pretty much agree with all the responses, he's becoming an after thought to a certain extent, certainly not one of the leaders of this emerging set of young attacking talents we have. Sure he might be able to do a job off the bench...but that's not what the investment was intended for.

[I am invisible]

I think the player himself could probably do with a clean break too - he's too young to just sit on his contract and let his career fade into obscurity.

[Bumble]

it would also free up a non British quota spot... cover at the moment and get rid in the Summer... if we can get 30m that would be good work.

[Ollie the Optimist]

It’s a tricky one.

He came here with a huge price tag (not his fault at all) and then it all went wrong with Emery. Most players struggled to show anything during those games. He was also then trying to adapt to a new country and league all of which take time. I think most say it takes about 6 months to adjust fully but of course after 6 months or so, the pandemic hits and no football for several months.

Then football restarts and Arteta doenst use him that much and this season, he keeps playing Willian who does fuck all and lets Pepe have a few minutes here and there as a sub with the occasional start. That is no way to help a player get into some form and it probably doesnt help his confidence watching Willian do fuck all each week and still cant get a game.

As said above, Pepe has shown glimpses and i dont think its the time to cut our losses. It would be best to say to Pepe, you are starting the next 5 games. Dont worry about it just show us what you can do. If you have a bad game, dont worry, you will start the next. Give him time to build confidence up and get used playing regularly. We aren’t winning anything this season so why not try and get the best out of Pepe for next year. He will offer a lot more then Willian

[Gooner23]

If Saka makes the permanent switch to the right (allowing Auba or Martinelli to play left) that pushes Pepe even further down the pecking order.

Watching Saka the last few games has really highlighted just how poor Willian and Pepe have been for us.

I think one will go in the summer and that will probably be Pepe as we should be able to get some money for him.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

When we spent that money we were sold an instant hero. As usual we got it wrong again by ignoring the obvious. A lot of us, at that time, said that money would have been better spent on a proven EPL talent like his country man Zaha . In fact even Emery got it right as he wanted Zaha but was overruled by the suits. There is no doubt Pepe is a talent, but he never proved himself in any other team but Lille (even on international duty) and Ligue 1.

Now going back to the "problem".... as far as I am concerned there isn't one. Yes we paid a huge fee and yes he earns shitloads, however that means nothing as long as the better players ATM always starts over him...which is what is happening now and was not happening under Emery. Pepe will not be the first Arsenal player not to pull up trees his early years and later become an essential player in the squad ( Edu, Flamini, Song, Eboue,RVP etc). He's still young and can get better. Its similar to the way we got rid of Gervinho to early and what about the kid at Bayern??

So as long as he gets no undeserved starts, keeps showing a good work ethic and causes no conflict in the team, I would keep him. I would only sell if I knew I could get close to his worth back , 60mish and thats not happening now. So lets give him more time, as time is what we have afforded all the idiots running the club.

[Chippy]

When we spent that money we were sold an instant hero. As usual we got it wrong again by ignoring the obvious. A lot of us, at that time, said that money would have been better spent on a proven EPL talent like his country man Zaha . In fact even Emery got it right as he wanted Zaha but was overruled by the suits. There is no doubt Pepe is a talent, but he never proved himself in any other team but Lille (even on international duty) and Ligue 1.

Now going back to the "problem".... as far as I am concerned there isn't one. Yes we paid a huge fee and yes he earns shitloads, however that means nothing as long as the better players ATM always starts over him...which is what is happening now and was not happening under Emery. Pepe will not be the first Arsenal player not to pull up trees his early years and later become an essential player in the squad ( Edu, Flamini, Song, Eboue,RVP etc). He's still young and can get better. Its similar to the way we got rid of Gervinho to early and what about the kid at Bayern??

So as long as he gets no undeserved starts, keeps showing a good work ethic and causes no conflict in the team, I would keep him. I would only sell if I knew I could get close to his worth back , 60mish and thats not happening now. So lets give him more time, as time is what we have afforded all the idiots running the club.
Sell him, he's shit.
Saka, Tierney and Smith-Rowe prove that the young hungry players are the future because they want it it.
I am looking forward to offloading the crap ASAP.

[Mac76]

If Saka makes the permanent switch to the right (allowing Auba or Martinelli to play left) that pushes Pepe even further down the pecking order.

Watching Saka the last few games has really highlighted just how poor Willian and Pepe have been for us.

I think one will go in the summer and that will probably be Pepe as we should be able to get some money for him.

I'm with this i think - i don't dislike Pepe as a person and as Ollie says it wans't his faalt he came at such a huge price - that was Raul's corruption

but Saka is brill on the right and we also have AMN and others to play in tha tposition.

so if we can get some money for Pepe then maybe i'd do that.

however if it was a choice of selling Pepe or Willian it would be Willian a million times over

[Gooner23]

I'm with this i think - i don't dislike Pepe as a person and as Ollie says it wans't his faalt he came at such a huge price - that was Raul's corruption

but Saka is brill on the right and we also have AMN and others to play in tha tposition.

so if we can get some money for Pepe then maybe i'd do that.

however if it was a choice of selling Pepe or Willian it would be Willian a million times over

Agreed, but unfortunately we're now lumped with Willian for the duration of his contract. He wants to live in London and at his age isn't going to get a better offer.

[selassie]

When we spent that money we were sold an instant hero. As usual we got it wrong again by ignoring the obvious. A lot of us, at that time, said that money would have been better spent on a proven EPL talent like his country man Zaha . In fact even Emery got it right as he wanted Zaha but was overruled by the suits. There is no doubt Pepe is a talent, but he never proved himself in any other team but Lille (even on international duty) and Ligue 1.

Now going back to the "problem".... as far as I am concerned there isn't one. Yes we paid a huge fee and yes he earns shitloads, however that means nothing as long as the better players ATM always starts over him...which is what is happening now and was not happening under Emery. Pepe will not be the first Arsenal player not to pull up trees his early years and later become an essential player in the squad ( Edu, Flamini, Song, Eboue,RVP etc). He's still young and can get better. Its similar to the way we got rid of Gervinho to early and what about the kid at Bayern??

So as long as he gets no undeserved starts, keeps showing a good work ethic and causes no conflict in the team, I would keep him. I would only sell if I knew I could get close to his worth back , 60mish and thats not happening now. So lets give him more time, as time is what we have afforded all the idiots running the club.

There is a problem!!! We are paying him huge wages and still paying off the transfer fee for a player who is deemed not good enough to start for us in arguably our weakest team in decades!!! That's an issue mate, lets not dress it up any other way.

What makes it worse is, if we do put him up for sale we'd be lucky to recoup even half of the fee!

Pepe is what 24? he needs to be delivering right now, that's what we paid for, an instant impact. He's not a teenager or some project we can work on for season upon season. When do we wait? Until he is 28?

Sure, we have no choice but to keep him, maybe even loan him if we can to a club who will give him regular game time to build up his confidence? Which club is going to loan him though when he is on huge wages??? We are stuck with him.

[Bumble]

There is a problem!!! We are paying him huge wages and still paying off the transfer fee for a player who is deemed not good enough to start for us in arguably our weakest team in decades!!! That's an issue mate, lets not dress it up any other way.

What makes it worse is, if we do put him up for sale we'd be lucky to recoup even half of the fee!

Pepe is what 24? he needs to be delivering right now, that's what we paid for, an instant impact. He's not a teenager or some project we can work on for season upon season. When do we wait? Until he is 28?

Sure, we have no choice but to keep him, maybe even loan him if we can to a club who will give him regular game time to build up his confidence? Which club is going to loan him though when he is on huge wages??? We are stuck with him.

well we might have to subsidize the wages, if we are looking to get rid then we should loan him as at least his might increase if he plays well.

[Niall_Quinn]

Or we could see what Pepe potentially offers and what prompted the fee in the first place. Banish this low tempo, sideways, conservative bullshit and put out a young team with the focus on attack and high tempo, forward play. Pepe might turn into an asset in such an environment, a bit like Walcott did. Still hot and cold, but better than a dead loss.

[selassie]

Or we could see what Pepe potentially offers and what prompted the fee in the first place. Banish this low tempo, sideways, conservative bullshit and put out a young team with the focus on attack and high tempo, forward play. Pepe might turn into an asset in such an environment, a bit like Walcott did. Still hot and cold, but better than a dead loss.

I want him to succeed, I see elements in his game that give me hope that he can be a great player for us.

Admittedly it was only against West Brom, but some of the combination play between Saka, ESR & Laca was high tempo and fluid forward play so there is hope yet.

Whether Pepe fits into this going forward remains to be seen.

[selassie]

well we might have to subsidize the wages, if we are looking to get rid then we should loan him as at least his might increase if he plays well.

Yep agree mate. Loan before sale without a doubt.

I'd give him at least until the end of the season though and would definitely give him enough game time to try and impress.

[Niall_Quinn]

I want him to succeed, I see elements in his game that give me hope that he can be a great player for us.

Admittedly it was only against West Brom, but some of the combination play between Saka, ESR & Laca was high tempo and fluid forward play so there is hope yet.

Whether Pepe fits into this going forward remains to be seen.

The key with Pepe (based on limited viewing admittedly) is to unleash him when the opposition is off balance or switching from attack to defence. Pepe's unpredictability and pace, plus his ability to shoot, adds confusion, and in confusion opportunity is made.

But if you have him as part of a static four across the middle he's almost useless. It plays against all his pros and totally into the hands of his cons. Pepe's a luxury player. Arteta is trying to fit him into a system where everybody shares responsibilities. The manager already ditched Ozil because he's bringing everyone down to the lowest common level. Pepe will probably be next.

[I am invisible]

Having a #10 alongside him to play off, as well as a Lacazette who doesn’t have to drop so deep all the time to link play, will both be a big help to Pepe, as will having players like Gabriel and Partey in the side, who like to hit early, diagonal balls to the right wing. I can see us getting more out of him with all of those guys in the side.

Ultimately though, his extreme one-footedness makes his intentions way too predictable for this level, and he’s yet another player who needs too many other players around him to fill in his blanks before he’s useful. I’m not even sure that I buy that he’s that useful on counter attacks? We’ve pretty much done nothing but sit deep and try to counter for the last year and he hasn’t exactly set the world alight? And now teams have sussed out that tactic he seems to have disappeared altogether.

[Gooner23]

Having a #10 alongside him to play off, as well as a Lacazette who doesn’t have to drop so deep all the time to link play, will both be a big help to Pepe, as will having players like Gabriel and Partey in the side, who like to hit early, diagonal balls to the right wing. I can see us getting more out of him with all of those guys in the side.

Ultimately though, his extreme one-footedness makes his intentions way too predictable for this level, and he’s yet another player who needs too many other players around him to fill in his blanks before he’s useful. I’m not even sure that I buy that he’s that useful on counter attacks? We’ve pretty much done nothing but sit deep and try to counter for the last year and he hasn’t exactly set the world alight? And now teams have sussed out that tactic he seems to have disappeared altogether.

He's just so slow and predictable in everything he does. You look at the left footed Saka in the same areas and everything happens twice as quick, with more variety.

[Mac76]

He's just so slow and predictable in everything he does. You look at the left footed Saka in the same areas and everything happens twice as quick, with more variety.

in other words we were sold a pup by a corrupt agent and Raul - i'm willing to bet the club had enough on Raul to actually get him convicted of fraud and/or corruption but to avoid all the negative publicity they simply got rid of him

[I am invisible]

He's just so slow and predictable in everything he does. You look at the left footed Saka in the same areas and everything happens twice as quick, with more variety.

Yeah, Saka's much more adaptable to different situations and game plans, and he doesn't need 2 or 3 specific players to be present before he contributes.

I still think Pepe could be a weapon in the right circumstances - at the very least he's a wildcard that we can chuck on if nothing else is working - but ultimately I don't see him starting ahead of Saka, Martinelli or Auba in those wide areas, so that makes him another 100k+/wk bench-warner.

[I am invisible]

in other words we were sold a pup by a corrupt agent and Raul - i'm willing to bet the club had enough on Raul to actually get him convicted of fraud and/or corruption but to avoid all the negative publicity they simply got rid of him

:good:

[selassie]

Yeah, Saka's much more adaptable to different situations and game plans, and he doesn't need 2 or 3 specific players to be present before he contributes.

I still think Pepe could be a weapon in the right circumstances - at the very least he's a wildcard that we can chuck on if nothing else is working - but ultimately I don't see him starting ahead of Saka, Martinelli or Auba in those wide areas, so that makes him another 100k+/wk bench-warner.

Yep, totally agree.

[WGC Goon]

We should sell him on next summer while he's still in his prime and we can still cash in on him. Nothing against the player but he's had enough time to settle in and show us what he can do, which so far has been sporadic to say the least.

[Bumble]

Yeah, Saka's much more adaptable to different situations and game plans, and he doesn't need 2 or 3 specific players to be present before he contributes.

I still think Pepe could be a weapon in the right circumstances - at the very least he's a wildcard that we can chuck on if nothing else is working - but ultimately I don't see him starting ahead of Saka, Martinelli or Auba in those wide areas, so that makes him another 100k+/wk bench-warner.

the only thing is that we complain lack of depth then also complain about 100k bench warmer. if we want proper depth in squad its going to cost particularly as all the kids are 1st choice already. difficult situation and should we care about the cost that much.

[I am invisible]

the only thing is that we complain lack of depth then also complain about 100k bench warmer. if we want proper depth in squad its going to cost particularly as all the kids are 1st choice already. difficult situation and should we care about the cost that much.
Yeah, I get what you’re saying, and if he was actually providing quality depth then this would be a different conversation. But he isn’t, and the situation looks pretty straightforward to me.

I started writing a response last night, outlining all of our financial woes and why we should care - the lack of CL football, the lack of crowds, the owners buying up our stadium debt, the mass redundancies, the fact that we had to ask the players to take a pay cut, the fact that we’ve had to apply for a £140m bridging loan to see us through to May, the current squad trimming, etc - but having slept on it I actually think all of that is irrelevant. If we want to be a top club again then we need to have the highest standards and that means regular audits on the squad, regardless of our financial health - anyone who isn’t delivering value should be moved on and replaced.

I appreciate that form and circumstance play a big role here, and that players need to be assessed over a reasonable period of time (half way through their current contract might be a good time to review), but by the summer Pepe will have been here 2 years - if he isn’t showing that he’s a CL quality player by then (which is what you expect for those wages) then I think we need to cut our losses and reinvest whatever we can salvage.

[IBK]

Yeah, I get what you’re saying, and if he was actually providing quality depth then this would be a different conversation. But he isn’t, and the situation looks pretty straightforward to me.

I started writing a response last night, outlining all of our financial woes and why we should care - the lack of CL football, the lack of crowds, the owners buying up our stadium debt, the mass redundancies, the fact that we had to ask the players to take a pay cut, the fact that we’ve had to apply for a £140m bridging loan to see us through to May, the current squad trimming, etc - but having slept on it I actually think all of that is irrelevant. If we want to be a top club again then we need to have the highest standards and that means regular audits on the squad, regardless of our financial health - anyone who isn’t delivering value should be moved on and replaced.

I appreciate that form and circumstance play a big role here, and that players need to be assessed over a reasonable period of time (half way through their current contract might be a good time to review), but by the summer Pepe will have been here 2 years - if he isn’t showing that he’s a CL quality player by then (which is what you expect for those wages) then I think we need to cut our losses and reinvest whatever we can salvage.

Good points. But on the other hand I suppose we need to look at on costs. Pepe costs £100K per week - making him our 10th highest wage earner, but the 7 next highest earners are all within 20/25K of him. We overpaid for Pepe transfer wise, undoubtedly, and there is a good argument that he is not a good fit for our system, but which of the players we have would we like to see play instead of Pepe on the RW. Definitely not Willian. I would like to see AMN tried there more regularly, but after that?

We can no longer look at the player's transfer fee. This is water under the bridge and not really relevant going forwards.

Would the money we are likely to get for Pepe in the current market, plus 100K wages buy a better player? Perhaps - but unlikely that this would get a ready made player in his prime who would not be first choice.

I still think that Pepe could make the breakthrough, given that following a period where we have not played with the fluency and imagination that would suit Pepe's game, we are starting to become less rigid and predictable. I would like to see Pepe used more for the rest of the season before writing him off - and lets face it it is only playing time that will potentially preserve some of his re-sale value if we do decide to sell.

[I am invisible]

Good points. But on the other hand I suppose we need to look at on costs. Pepe costs £100K per week - making him our 10th highest wage earner, but the 7 next highest earners are all within 20/25K of him. We overpaid for Pepe transfer wise, undoubtedly, and there is a good argument that he is not a good fit for our system, but which of the players we have would we like to see play instead of Pepe on the RW. Definitely not Willian. I would like to see AMN tried there more regularly, but after that?

We can no longer look at the player's transfer fee. This is water under the bridge and not really relevant going forwards.

Would the money we are likely to get for Pepe in the current market, plus 100K wages buy a better player? Perhaps - but unlikely that this would get a ready made player in his prime who would not be first choice.

I still think that Pepe could make the breakthrough, given that following a period where we have not played with the fluency and imagination that would suit Pepe's game, we are starting to become less rigid and predictable. I would like to see Pepe used more for the rest of the season before writing him off - and lets face it it is only playing time that will potentially preserve some of his re-sale value if we do decide to sell.

Oh I'm in total agreement about the fee. That money's gone. We're not getting it back. Forget it and move on. This is now purely about whether we're getting value for the ongoing £100k/wk wages.

Honestly, I don't know whether we could get better than Pepe for the same money... but I certainly think we could get someone of a similar standard for considerably less. Maybe it wouldn't amount to a huge saving if we were just talking about Pepe, but it starts to add up when you go through the squad and apply the same rule to everyone who's not delivering. This is where the club need to start getting ruthless with their self-imposed 'final 2 years' rule (which is usually about the mid point in a players contract, so a good time for a review): if a player is hitting their KPIs, extend their contract; if they won't sign the extension, move them on and reinvest; if they're not hitting their KPIs, move them on and reinvest.

Fwiw, I also think Pepe could still make the breakthrough - I'm just not sure we can afford to wait much longer for it to happen? Maybe if we had a few less other problems to deal with we could see where it goes, but atm I don't think Arteta has the time for quite this many project-players. Summer would be my cut-off point - if he hasn't clicked by then I'd put him back on the market. 2 years is long enough to wait for a senior player to settle in and find themselves.

[Mac76]

Oh I'm in total agreement about the fee. That money's gone. We're not getting it back. Forget it and move on. This is now purely about whether we're getting value for the ongoing £100k/wk wages.

Honestly, I don't know whether we could get better than Pepe for the same money... but I certainly think we could get someone of a similar standard for considerably less. Maybe it wouldn't amount to a huge saving if we were just talking about Pepe, but it starts to add up when you go through the squad and apply the same rule to everyone who's not delivering. This is where the club need to start getting ruthless with their self-imposed 'final 2 years' rule (which is usually about the mid point in a players contract, so a good time for a review): if a player is hitting their KPIs, extend their contract; if they won't sign the extension, move them on and reinvest; if they're not hitting their KPIs, move them on and reinvest.

Fwiw, I also think Pepe could still make the breakthrough - I'm just not sure we can afford to wait much longer for it to happen? Maybe if we had a few less other problems to deal with we could see where it goes, but atm I don't think Arteta has the time for quite this many project-players. Summer would be my cut-off point - if he hasn't clicked by then I'd put him back on the market. 2 years is long enough to wait for a senior player to settle in and find themselves.

talking of Arteta, we have to factor in that his man-management is questionnable and at least part of Pepe's problem is the lack of a sustained run in the team in an established position, to allow him the ability to link up with players better.

ESR knew Saka already very well from the youth team plus has generally been around the club a long time and played with the senior team before in cups etc, so that's probably what's helped him in the transition

[I am invisible]

talking of Arteta, we have to factor in that his man-management is questionnable and at least part of Pepe's problem is the lack of a sustained run in the team in an established position, to allow him the ability to link up with players better.

ESR knew Saka already very well from the youth team plus has generally been around the club a long time and played with the senior team before in cups etc, so that's probably what's helped him in the transition
Yup, all valid, and I’m not unsympathetic - he’s walked into an absolute bin-fire of a period for this club, and I’m sure it hasn’t been easy. Just as I’m sure he’d absolutely benefit from having ESR and a Lacazaette who doesn’t have to keep dropping deep to play off.

But it all just feels like another way of saying that he can’t perform unless the conditions are right and the correct players are around him (like how Xhaka “needs” the right midfield partner next to him before he’s not be a total liability).

The thing I keep coming back to is Martinelli - he joined at the same time and has had all of the same problems to content with (plus a major injury), and it hasn’t really phased him. In fact he’s taken every opportunity that’s come his way despite having considerably less game time.