Match Reaction v Wolves (away)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Well that was fucked.

Well and truly piss off football.

[Marc Overmars]

Pathetic defeat. Played so well in the first half and would have easily gone on to win if it wasn’t for Luiz’s mistake.

Stupid then from Leno to compound it all.

Good run over and back comes that mid-table stench again. We just can’t get away from it.

[Letters]

We’d have won had it not been for that stupid end to the first half.

Will say one thing, having seen a still of the red card it was a bit of a bullshit sending off. And it all went from there.

[dazthegooner]

Leno was sent off because they he say stopped a clear scoring opportunity, he as outside the area surly should have been just a yellow.

[Letters]

Say one thing for Luiz, this is a bullshit sending off

https://i.ibb.co/R3Bptcb/8089-C8-FC-A766-4791-AAC6-6-A63-DDA049-FC.jpg

[dazthegooner]

Ryan is injured atm hopefully it's not too bad and he'll be fit for Saturday. (I take it Leno's banned straight away)

[selassie]

David Luiz should never play for Arsenal again, he cost us the game.

That first half was arguably the best i've seen us play in years, the whole team from back to front was superb. We would have definitely gone on to have won this game if it wasn't for that stupid Chelsea reject who continually costs us game. Arteta needs to banish him to the reserves.

[Letters]

David Luiz should never play for Arsenal again, he cost us the game.

That first half was arguably the best i've seen us play in years, the whole team from back to front was superb. We would have definitely gone on to have won this game if it wasn't for that stupid Chelsea reject who continually costs us game. Arteta needs to banish him to the reserves.

My initial reaction too, but it was a bullshit sending off.
What’s the point of VAR if they’re going to make nonsense decisions like that?

[selassie]

My initial reaction too, but it was a bullshit sending off.
What’s the point of VAR if they’re going to make nonsense decisions like that?

TBF, i have watched it a few times since I posted my comment, I was so angry earlier i switched off the game. You are right it was a ridiculous decision and shouldn't have been a sending off. Luiz tried to move out the way.

I'm done with this shit, VAR, referees, we always get screwed over.

[Chippy]

Well that was fucked.

Well and truly piss off football.

I know what it feels like again to be gutted when Arsenal lose. We play the best football of the season and fucking lose. Can't even blame Arteta.
As for Luiz, it was harsh, but he is an accident waiting to happen. It's not the first time he's done it and it won't be the last. Fucking fed up

[RomfordPele]

TBF, i have watched it a few times since I posted my comment, I was so angry earlier i switched off the game. You are right it was a ridiculous decision and shouldn't have been a sending off. Luiz tried to move out the way.

I'm done with this shit, VAR, referees, we always get screwed over.

It is dodgy as hell. 9 reds from a team that commits the fewest fouls in the premiership. Bellerin, one of the softest players I’ve ever seen in an Arsenal shirt, has most yellows in the division.

I am pretty sure we also lead on things like yellows for time-wasting (i recall 3 including Pepe recently when we were tending to an injured player!) and foul throws (5 - all for Bellerin) which are largely inconsequential decisions but further indicators of bias.

You can argue that we shouldn’t put ourselves in a position where refs can influence the match but come on - it stinks to high heaven.

[Mac76]

Sure the refs and VAR are sh*t, but it doesn't change the fact Luiz was chasing after the guy right into the pnealty area, he was never going to get into a position to make a decent tackle from there, it was suicide

How he played ahead of Gabriel beats me, Arteta just keeps reverting back to these old f*ckup players

[Letters]

If he hadn't people would be saying "he just gave up, why didn't he even chase him"? :shrug:
He clipped him at worst. Fine, have the penalty but keep it at 11 vs 11, then we can have a game.
The ref gave them the points tonight.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sure the refs and VAR are sh*t, but it doesn't change the fact Luiz was chasing after the guy right into the pnealty area, he was never going to get into a position to make a decent tackle from there, it was suicide
How he played ahead of Gabriel beats me, Arteta just keeps reverting back to these old f*ckup players

This.

The Rookie never learns...... and more pointedly he left Xhaka on the field when he had 2 opportunities to drag him off (Laca and Partey). I'm still scratching my head on the second sub of Partey....I give up...another coach with silly favourites.

[Gooner23]

I don't have an issue with that Partey sub, we were down to 9 men so the game was done and dusted. He is only just back from injury so better to save him for the next match.

[Marc Overmars]

Just go and beat Villa on Saturday and we can put this freak show of a game behind us.

Just hoping it doesn’t start another rot given how fragile our confidence is.

[dazthegooner]

Arsenal are considering an appeal on the Luiz red. I can see it now.
'we got someone appealing a red card'
Who is it?
'Arsenal'
NO!

[Letters]

https://i.ibb.co/nj3gHWy/Wolves.jpg

:coffee:

[IBK]

I know what it feels like again to be gutted when Arsenal lose. We play the best football of the season and fucking lose. Can't even blame Arteta.
As for Luiz, it was harsh, but he is an accident waiting to happen. It's not the first time he's done it and it won't be the last. Fucking fed up

This is exactly how I feel.

It's a punch in the guts for agame to go like this just when we are getting into our stride as a team under Arteta, and a sign of har far we have come, and how well we were playing that this defeat stings so much.

Re Luis's sending off let's not forget that the ref should already have blown the whistle for half time...

[dazthegooner]

Re Luis's sending off let's not forget that the ref should already have blown the whistle for half time...[/QUOTE]

He would have done but he felt there was enough time to give a penalty.

[Gooner23]

The defeat probably means the vague hope of sneaking into the top 4 is over. All about building for next season now, and hopefuly have a decent run in the Europa league.

[Marc Overmars]

The defeat probably means the vague hope of sneaking into the top 4 is over. All about building for next season now, and hopefuly have a decent run in the Europa league.

Vague is putting it lightly. So much damage has been done already that any minor slip up is going to be catastrophic to those hopes.

We’re a mid table team and I believe we’ll do well to finish anywhere near 5th/6th. It only looks close at the moment because we’ve played a game or 2 more than the teams around us.

[Letters]

We’re a mid table team and I believe we’ll do well to finish anywhere near 5th/6th. It only looks close at the moment because we’ve played a game or 2 more than the teams around us.
I don't really agree. Our form since Christmas has not been mid-table.
Our form before Christmas wasn't either of course, in a different way.
Overall I think we are better than mid-table, but for the nonsense just before half time I firmly believe we'd have won last night which would have been 6 wins from 8 in the league with 2 draws. The important thing now is we win on Saturday and start another run.

[IBK]

I don't really agree. Our form since Christmas has not been mid-table.
Our form before Christmas wasn't either of course, in a different way.
Overall I think we are better than mid-table, but for the nonsense just before half time I firmly believe we'd have won last night which would have been 6 wins from 8 in the league with 2 draws. The important thing now is we win on Saturday and start another run.

This. Not only have our results since Christmas been top four-ish form (given the way the league is going this season), but it is clear to see that we are playing with a plan now - and are an attacking force as well as having defensive stability.

Its funny how perceptions can change so quickly. Any talk of top four prior to Xmas would have been utterly laughable (some people were even talking relegation :sulk:), and for me it is a testament to our improvement that top four was even considered an aspiration. The truth is that finishing the league 8th or above - with clear signs of an effective playing style; direction and a platform for next season would have been considered a reasonable aspiration for a team in transition, with a Rookie manager, at the beginning of the season.

This is IMO where we should be aiming for now, and as Letters says - a win on Saturday is crucial because our renaissance remains fragile.

[Marc Overmars]

We were mid table last season but all spoke about platforms, transition periods etc. Now it’s the same again this season. Poor start followed by some improvement and we’re now looking ahead to next year. :shrug:

I can see improvement fundamentally, which is great. However it has to start correlating to the league table, otherwise what’s the point.

[Mac76]

https://i.ibb.co/nj3gHWy/Wolves.jpg

:coffee:

that says it all

[Mac76]

We were mid table last season but all spoke about platforms, transition periods etc. Now it’s the same again this season. Poor start followed by some improvement and we’re now looking ahead to next year. :shrug:

I can see improvement fundamentally, which is great. However it has to start correlating to the league table, otherwise what’s the point.

surely the EL too, given if we can win it (which with our best team playing well i think we can) will get us into the CL

i really hope Arteta doesn't replicate his FA Cup approach with the EL - surely even he can see how important it is? :shrug:

[Marc Overmars]

surely the EL too, given if we can win it (which with our best team playing well i think we can) will get us into the CL

i really hope Arteta doesn't replicate his FA Cup approach with the EL - surely even he can see how important it is? :shrug:

I’m sure he will be going for the EL. It would be criminal if he threw that like the FA Cup.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Some stat going around on twitter saying we are top of the league for red cards, 8th for yellows but 20th for fouls committed per game.

Spurs are 4th for fouls committed per game yet 17th for yellows.


The standard of referring & consistency is shocking.

[GP]

We are actively discriminated against by referees and have been for a long time. I firmly believe that.

We're not a dirty team but look at the stats. Some teams literally get away with murder. LITERALLY.

[Mac76]

We are actively discriminated against by referees and have been for a long time. I firmly believe that.

We're not a dirty team but look at the stats. Some teams literally get away with murder. LITERALLY.

:gp:

[Mac76]

in all seriousness the Arsenal legal team should put some time into compiling a dossier of incidents alongside comparable incidents involving other teams and present it to the FA

it's just a joke and is now entirely self-perpetuating as refs will see the stats and think - "ok i need to come down hard on Arsenal in this game..."

[IBK]

It always seems like your own team gets hard done by. In our case why do people think that we are discriminated against? Is it that we are in that kind of anti-goldilocks zone between those teams like Liverpool and Manure who have always held a special place in peoples' affections because of their past, and 'lesser teams' who are supported as underdogs?

Is it because our glory days (and therefore what we are remembered most for) were when we were percieved to be a 'foreign' team?

Is it because we are percieved as being soft moaners who don't like it up them?

[IBK]

We were mid table last season but all spoke about platforms, transition periods etc. Now it’s the same again this season. Poor start followed by some improvement and we’re now looking ahead to next year. :shrug:

I can see improvement fundamentally, which is great. However it has to start correlating to the league table, otherwise what’s the point.

Don't think we can judge Arteta by last season's poor start. Time for judging him is at the end of this (his first) season, but if we have made definite strides then, I will forgive a rookie manager a poor transition patch...

[Letters]

It always seems like your own team gets hard done by. In our case why do people think that we are discriminated against?

Confirmation bias, basically. Football fans are by nature partisan and it's all quite tribal.
So generally you tend to remember incidents which go against you and feel hard done by and don't remember so well when things go for you.
I don't believe that we are uniquely persecuted by referees, simply because fans of every team seems to think that.

BUT...the stats which have been posted above don't look good, we haven't been getting the rub of the green this year. It could be that referees bias, perceiving us as a "dirty team", which we're not, is a factor.

[GP]

It always seems like your own team gets hard done by. In our case why do people think that we are discriminated against? Is it that we are in that kind of anti-goldilocks zone between those teams like Liverpool and Manure who have always held a special place in peoples' affections because of their past, and 'lesser teams' who are supported as underdogs?

Is it because our glory days (and therefore what we are remembered most for) were when we were percieved to be a 'foreign' team?

Is it because we are percieved as being soft moaners who don't like it up them?

No, I'll tell you what it is. In the mid-2000s and onward, teams would go out to kick us. Allardyce sides, Pulis sides, and refs would let them.
Arsene Wenger has the AUDACITY to complain about the refereeing. And it's been downhill since then.

[Bumble]

Confirmation bias, basically. Football fans are by nature partisan and it's all quite tribal.
So generally you tend to remember incidents which go against you and feel hard done by and don't remember so well when things go for you.
I don't believe that we are uniquely persecuted by referees, simply because fans of every team seems to think that.

BUT...the stats which have been posted above don't look good, we haven't been getting the rub of the green this year. It could be that referees bias, perceiving us as a "dirty team", which we're not, is a factor.

but smaller clubs believe there is a big club bias as well. the red cards isnt because of dirty fouls. its silly mistakes that has caused the red card. we arent a dirty team, you can assess just based on number of yellows. a study needs to be done to collate what the yellows have been for as compared to other teams, grade the type of tackle etc.

i dont think there is an anti arsenal movement with refs.

anyway on to the next game, i dont think this will have a big effect on confidence because of the nature of the team, for once we werent rubbish and lost. so the team is playing better. perhaps it might be worth having Pepe through the middle as he seems to found some goalscoring boots

[Mac76]

as you know i'm no conspiracy theorist, but there is without doubt a genuine bias against Arsenal - sa i said above it's now a self-perpetuing situation and the club should make a proper effort to stop it as it's costing us several points per season

[Marc Overmars]

I’ve never been one to moan and groan about refereeing because I prefer to look at what the team can and should be doing to negate any poor standard of officiating, however there’s no doubt we’ve been on the end of some woeful decisions and it does make you think about how Arsenal are perceived.

Of course fans of other clubs would probably tell you the same and how they feel their club has been wronged.

The truth is probably a fairly a simple one and that is the standard of refereeing is just plain awful and has been for a long time.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Confirmation bias certainly plays a big part in how we perceive refereeing decisions for and against us. However, just because confirmation bias runs rife throughout the football fan community, it doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

The views expressed here by many and which I hold as well, are not baseless. There is a statistically significant sample over a material timeframe that supports our view that something is not right. I mean when you look at the data - it isn't even close. We are a complete outlier, even compared to the recipients of the second most amount of cards and sendings off.

And that is the case by both percentage and volume. That isn't even taking into account the eye test - what stares us in the face every 90 minutes. I'm not saying the Club should go on a public rant about this, but at the very least, they should robustly seek an explanation and if the response isn't substantive, then go public about it.

[Letters]

The truth is probably a fairly a simple one and that is the standard of refereeing is just plain awful and has been for a long time.

:gp:

And VAR hasn't helped as much as I hoped it would.

[dazthegooner]

Well Dermott Gallagher has said that Luiz deserved to go, Says it all really <_<

[Bumble]

:gp:

And VAR hasn't helped as much as I hoped it would.

VAR works on yes or no. like in cricket or rugby. did he hit the ball. snicko, hot spot will tell you yes or no. football dont think you can use VAR for interpreting a sending off or foul sometimes. offside is fine, but intent is difficult. thing is VAR might take 10 years to iron out the problems as cricket and DRS has evolved over time.

[Mac76]

we should do this too https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55922560

[GP]

We should have refused to accept Mike fucking Dein years ago.

[I am invisible]

No, I'll tell you what it is. In the mid-2000s and onward, teams would go out to kick us. Allardyce sides, Pulis sides, and refs would let them.
Arsene Wenger has the AUDACITY to complain about the refereeing. And it's been downhill since then.
For some reason the footballing world always seems to need a label to tag us with? For years we were ‘boring’ Arsenal under GG, then we were ‘dirty’ Arsenal in Wenger’s early years, and most recently we’ve been ‘soft’ Arsenal. It sounds harmless enough, but labels can be powerful things - I wonder how many refs, when they see one of our players getting fouled, just automatically dismiss it as another Arsenal player being ‘soft’? I wonder how many of them are even aware that they’re doing it?

You’re right, it was the infamous 50th game at Old Trafford that did it - United spent the whole match kicking the shit out of Reyes while the ref looked on, and then Fergie proudly announced to world afterwards “we know how you have to play Arsenal”. After that it was basically open season on our players...

[IBK]

For some reason the footballing world always seems to need a label to tag us with? For years we were ‘boring’ Arsenal under GG, then we were ‘dirty’ Arsenal in Wenger’s early years, and most recently we’ve been ‘soft’ Arsenal. It sounds harmless enough, but labels can be powerful things - I wonder how many refs, when they see one of our players getting fouled, just automatically dismiss it as another Arsenal player being ‘soft’? I wonder how many of them are even aware that they’re doing it?

You’re right, it was the infamous 50th game at Old Trafford that did it - United spent the whole match kicking the shit out of Reyes while the ref looked on, and then Fergie proudly announced to world afterwards “we know how you have to play Arsenal”. After that it was basically open season on our players...

Yeah - I'll buy the Arsenal percieved as 'soft' angle. After all refs are not divorced from the wider football community and their decisions are subjective to a degree. I guess its a reputation thing too - difficult not to think that Luis's tendency to committ fouls in his own box didn't influence the sending off on Tuesday night, TBH.

But we have to remember that other teams are well aware of our self-destructive traits, and will always play for these. We need to look at ourselves first and foremost - and how our players approach the game, before looking for any help (competence?) from the officials.

[Mac76]

We need to look at ourselves first and foremost - and how our players approach the game, before looking for any help (competence?) from the officials.

This is why i still blame Luis for Tuesday - people can talk about refs, rules, VAR being crap but everyone knows it's all crap and so the smart players play accordingly - if you charge after someone into your penalty area, with no hope of making a decent tackle, you are taking too big a risk - he should have left it to Leno

[dazthegooner]

[QUOTE=- he should have left it to Leno[/QUOTE]

Indeed. And if he had done that Luiz would have still been on the field then maybe Leno wouldn't had to come out of his area in the 2nd half with a full compliment of defenders backing him up.

[Mac76]

Indeed. And if he had done that Luiz would have still been on the field then maybe Leno wouldn't had to come out of his area in the 2nd half with a full compliment of defenders backing him up.

watch it again, Leno was last man, Traore would have beat him all ends up as well as any defender - it was still a stupid thing to do but we wouldn't have been under that kind of pressure if we'd had 11 men on the pitch still

[Letters]

watch it again, Leno was last man, Traore would have beat him all ends up as well as any defender - it was still a stupid thing to do but we wouldn't have been under that kind of pressure if we'd had 11 men on the pitch still

It was a complete brain fart but yes, 11 vs 11 and that is never happening.
Just give them a penalty, keep it 11 vs 11 and then we have a game and a good second half. Even if the sending off was technically right it's a bullshit rule. I'd suggest a penalty is a better "goal scoring opportunity" than being through with defenders closing in and the 'keeper coming at you.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Luiz red card appeal has been rejected.


Completely farcical by the FA. If they maintain that is a red card, its going to be watching them justify referees not giving it to anyone else

[GP]

watch it again, Leno was last man, Traore would have beat him all ends up

Let him, he never does anything with it.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Now the FA have rescinded the red card for the Southampton player who was sent off for exactly the same offence as Luiz.


How the fuck can they even attempt to argue about giving different decisions? It’s complete corruption

[Letters]

Luiz red card appeal has been rejected.
It was always going to be because apparently it was the "right" decision.
Utter, utter bullshit.

[Ollie the Optimist]

It was always going to be because apparently it was the "right" decision.
Utter, utter bullshit.

Have a look at the red card Southampton got (their second one of the night) against united this week. How can the FA rescind that one & not Luiz? Both same offences so how can one be right & other isn’t?

[Letters]

Now the FA have rescinded the red card for the Southampton player who was sent off for exactly the same offence as Luiz.


How the fuck can they even attempt to argue about giving different decisions? It’s complete corruption

Holy fucking shit.

I'm always arguing against "they're out to get us" but how fucking blatant is that? Two incidents similar as you like and they only rescind one of the red cards?
What utter bullshit!

:fury:

[Letters]

Have a look at the red card Southampton got (their second one of the night) against united this week. How can the FA rescind that one & not Luiz? Both same offences so how can one be right & other isn’t?

Yes. I replied before I saw your post above. What utter nonsense.

[Bumble]

Yes. I replied before I saw your post above. What utter nonsense.

maybe they are doing us a favour so we dont have to play Luiz

[Mac76]

maybe they are doing us a favour so we dont have to play Luiz

:gp:

[Letters]

maybe they are doing us a favour so we dont have to play Luiz

:lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

maybe they are doing us a favour so we dont have to play Luiz
:gp:

He seems to only concentrate when playing "A" opposition. Should never be a regular starter for us.