Match Reaction v Villa (away).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Shit. Back to our midtable dross.

No win in three.

[Marc Overmars]

Had a few wins against poor teams. Played some of the better ones and can’t win. Smells of mid table to me.

Must be one pretty big corner we’ve been turning.

Trash. Go away Arteta or sort it out.

[Gooner23]

Not great. Very sloppy start set the tone and never really got going. Eventually started building some momentum in the 2nd half, but that died with Willian coming on for Partey and Pepe moved off the left.

[Mac76]

Cedric, Bellerin and Willian when he came on were awful

Ryan did well enough as did Holding and Gabriel but we just were nowhere near the quality of the first half against Wolves

so annoying as we could have gone above Spuds if we'd won

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We're performing worse overall than we did under Emery so it's hard to really justify him staying.

How many times have we registered a nil for goals in a game this season? It's embarrassing.

[Letters]

I only saw the second half and thought we played ok actually.
We didn’t really do enough up front and I thought Villa defended well.
Probably deserved a point but oh well.

[Ollie the Optimist]

In terms of a performance, we deserved nothing and the less said about bringing on Willian the bettter., how can Arteta think he would be a better threat then Martinelli?


However, another refereeing decision changes the game. Villa should have played 60 minutes with 10 men. That was a clear red card on Saka for denying a goal scoring opportunity. In a week where the FA claimed Luiz was a red, how they can now claim that one today wasn’t is a joke.

[Xhaka Can’t]

16 points off the top
17 points clear of relegation
10th in the league.

That, by definition is mediocrity.

[Gooner23]

What's with Arteta's fetish for Willian? Does he really believe he can offer something or is it stubbornness to not admit he's signed a bum.

[Mac76]

What's with Arteta's fetish for Willian? Does he really believe he can offer something or is it stubbornness to not admit he's signed a bum.

Probably both

[Ollie the Optimist]

Walton: “From a subjective point of view, has Lacazette used that [shirt pull] as an opportunity to then lean on the goalkeeper? We all agree within football there is a certain amount of physical contact allowed.”

Genuine quote from Walton on BT Sport. I’v read it several times and still cant work out what he is saying. The only reason lacazette leans on the goalkeeper is because his shirt is being pulled towards the keeper!

Plus, he is claiming contact is allowed yet spent all week justifying why Luiz was red card on Tuesday

[LDG]

Fuck football. Do drugs

[Chippy]

Fuck football. Do drugs

:gp:

[Letters]

Zammo :bow:

[Chippy]

Zammo :bow:

:haha:

[Mac76]

Zammo :bow:

that programme was one big lie - we never once got served sausage and mash for school dinners :sulk:

[Ollie the Optimist]

https://youtu.be/LICssgTjI-s


This is a prime example of how VAR should work. Referee makes a quick decision based on replay, the VAR doesnt try to protect them and right decision made. The Referee himself doesnt seem to care he made a mistake at first, just wants the right decision made.

Quick & easy and transparent.

[Mac76]

https://youtu.be/LICssgTjI-s


This is a prime example of how VAR should work. Referee makes a quick decision based on replay, the VAR doesnt try to protect them and right decision made. The Referee himself doesnt seem to care he made a mistake at first, just wants the right decision made.

Quick & easy and transparent.

absolutely, just shows what happens when you have officials that simply deliver the process instead of being egotistical Arsenal-hating showboaters

[GP]

Matt Ryan did alright. Solid. Just what you want from a backup keeper.

Referees should all be killed.

[Letters]

Matt Ryan did alright. Solid. Just what you want from a backup keeper.

Referees should all be killed.

:gp:

[IBK]

Deliberately left it until today for my tuppence worth.

Felt deflated in Saturday, as I was expecting a win at Villa, given how we have been playing recently. What depressed me was not so much the mistake that led to their goal (these things happen - albeit seemingly too much with our players), but how straightforward Villa's game plan was. Dean Smith did not have any magic strategy. He just made sure that his players were absolutely on it from the get go, then really disciplined in defence once they had scored. Not rocket science. And despite us being almost at full strength attacking wise, we had no way through. We seemed always to go for the pass, and allow them to get back into shape when going forwards, and this lack of speed - in thought as well as execution - made us look quite blunt.

2 days later I'm a little more phlegmatic. We are (and always were) a work in progress, and I think that expectiations were raised a bit too high by our little unbeaten run. We are still IMO a long way away from the shambles before Xmas. We have a better shape and more options generally going forwards. I have a bit more faith in Arteta and Edu after our January business - Odegard and Matt Smith look like sensible acqisitions, and while Cedric is not good enough as a back up to Tierney - I am not going to kill them for not finding a better replacement. Aubameyang worries me - and in hindsight his contract renewal looks a bad deal but none of us really thought this at the time. The big black mark is Willian - both the deal and the manager's bewildering continued faith in him - but not much more to say about that.

I still expect us to finish top 10, and as long as we continue to show that there is a game plan on the pitch and can build on this then I will take that this season. However I need the manager and team to show that we really have moved on from the first half of the season - and the more games that go past without 3 points the more shaky our 'renaissance' seems.

[Chippy]

Deliberately left it until today for my tuppence worth.

Felt deflated in Saturday, as I was expecting a win at Villa, given how we have been playing recently. What depressed me was not so much the mistake that led to their goal (these things happen - albeit seemingly too much with our players), but how straightforward Villa's game plan was. Dean Smith did not have any magic strategy. He just made sure that his players were absolutely on it from the get go, then really disciplined in defence once they had scored. Not rocket science. And despite us being almost at full strength attacking wise, we had no way through. We seemed always to go for the pass, and allow them to get back into shape when going forwards, and this lack of speed - in thought as well as execution - made us look quite blunt.

2 days later I'm a little more phlegmatic. We are (and always were) a work in progress, and I think that expectiations were raised a bit too high by our little unbeaten run. We are still IMO a long way away from the shambles before Xmas. We have a better shape and more options generally going forwards. I have a bit more faith in Arteta and Edu after our January business - Odegard and Matt Smith look like sensible acqisitions, and while Cedric is not good enough as a back up to Tierney - I am not going to kill them for not finding a better replacement. Aubameyang worries me - and in hindsight his contract renewal looks a bad deal but none of us really thought this at the time. The big black mark is Willian - both the deal and the manager's bewildering continued faith in him - but not much more to say about that.

I still expect us to finish top 10, and as long as we continue to show that there is a game plan on the pitch and can build on this then I will take that this season. However I need the manager and team to show that we really have moved on from the first half of the season - and the more games that go past without 3 points the more shaky our 'renaissance' seems.

:gp:

The depressing thing for me on Saturday was that we went 1-0 down after just 2 minutes, I just knew we wouldn't get anything out of the game.

We have some good young players and we should get better. However, is Arteta the man to get the best out of them and turn our fortunes around? Personally, I just don't think so :(

* Why does Arteta continue with Luiz, Bellerin, Lacazette, and Willian?
* Why is Saliba still out on loan when he once again got MOTM for Nice at the weekend? (3-0 win).
* Guendouzi is also catching the eye of the Berlin and European press with his performances for Hertha.

Arteta has his obvious favorites, this is why I say "rookie out"!

[Mac76]

:gp:

The depressing thing for me on Saturday was that we went 1-0 down after just 2 minutes, I just knew we wouldn't get anything out of the game.

We have some good young players and we should get better. However, is Arteta the man to get the best out of them and turn our fortunes around? Personally, I just don't think so :(

* Why does Arteta continue with Luiz, Bellerin, Lacazette, and Willian?
* Why is Saliba still out on loan when he once again got MOTM for Nice at the weekend? (3-0 win).
* Guendouzi is also catching the eye of the Berlin and European press with his performances for Hertha.

Arteta has his obvious favorites, this is why I say "rookie out"!

* Why does Arteta continue with Luiz, Bellerin, Lacazette, and Willian?

well Laca has been our most prolific scorer i think and generally played quite well - and i speak as one of his big critics last season - so no mystery there but i agree on the others

The Saliba thing is a huge messup and clearly plays to Arteta being stubborn to a fault, a la his insistence on playing Willian, also his shutting out of Guendouzi who actually won us the game the last time we did win at home against Villa

Martinelli's the only person on the bench who could've changed that result but he got no minutes.

very stubborn

[IBK]

:gp:

The depressing thing for me on Saturday was that we went 1-0 down after just 2 minutes, I just knew we wouldn't get anything out of the game.

We have some good young players and we should get better. However, is Arteta the man to get the best out of them and turn our fortunes around? Personally, I just don't think so :(

* Why does Arteta continue with Luiz, Bellerin, Lacazette, and Willian?
* Why is Saliba still out on loan when he once again got MOTM for Nice at the weekend? (3-0 win).
* Guendouzi is also catching the eye of the Berlin and European press with his performances for Hertha.

Arteta has his obvious favorites, this is why I say "rookie out"!

I was actually quite confident that we would get something out of the game - which was the stark difference from these games before Xmas. The difference was that our forward players were not quite on it as they had been. In fact, I felt that the whole team lacked some snap. Was this complacency; lack of confidence or something else? The subs were poor. Nothing Arteta could do about Partey I suppose, but Ceballos should have replaced him. Saka worked well for Cedric, but IMO Martinelli would have provided the zip we needed to cause problems.

I'm not going to hammer Arteta again just yet though. A point against Manure was fine, and Wolves wasn't his fault. In hindsight Saliba looks like a glaring mistake in any number of ways, but Guendouzi??

The one that I cannot understand is Willian. We don't even need him as a body on the pitch any more FFS. How many shit performances does the manager need to watch?:fury::fury:

[Gooner23]

I was actually quite confident that we would get something out of the game - which was the stark difference from these games before Xmas. The difference was that our forward players were not quite on it as they had been. In fact, I felt that the whole team lacked some snap. Was this complacency; lack of confidence or something else? The subs were poor. Nothing Arteta could do about Partey I suppose, but Ceballos should have replaced him. Saka worked well for Cedric, but IMO Martinelli would have provided the zip we needed to cause problems.

I'm not going to hammer Arteta again just yet though. A point against Manure was fine, and Wolves wasn't his fault. In hindsight Saliba looks like a glaring mistake in any number of ways, but Guendouzi??

The one that I cannot understand is Willian. We don't even need him as a body on the pitch any more FFS. How many shit performances does the manager need to watch?:fury::fury:

It is worrying that Arteta seems to still default to 'experience', with Willian and Luiz getting more minutes than deserved. I thought he had learnt his lesson on this but it seems it was more a case of availability forcing his hand before Xmas, and Saka & Smith Rowe now being too good to drop.

The challenge this summer will be another tight budget (European football now very unlikely) and still a number of positions that need filling / upgrading on.

In my view we still need;
- Back up keeper (maybe that will be Ryan)
- Back up left back
- Starting right back
- Starting striker
- Starting centre mid
- Back up / starting attacking mid

Even if you flog one or two like Bellerin and Lacazatte that's still a huge amount of work to be done.

[Bumble]

Referees should all be killed.
Mike Dean is stepping down at the weekend due to death threats received after sendings off.

although your comment is tongue in cheek... there are some real loons out there who do believe that.

[Mac76]

Mike Dean is stepping down at the weekend due to death threats received after sendings off.

although your comment is tongue in cheek... there are some real loons out there who do believe that.

they're a nice set of fans at West Ham, aren't they :rolleyes:

[Chippy]

they're a nice set of fans at West Ham, aren't they :rolleyes:

Absolute Scumbags :censored:

I was at the game in the 80's when some idiot let off a smoke bomb in the North Bank and later that afternoon killed one of our fans by stabbing him. (I am sure that was the same day, cant be 100% sure).

Poor boy :rose::pray:

[dazthegooner]

A couple of years back I was in a Weatherspoons Surrey Docks a W Ham fan/prick came in wanting to fight all the Millwall fans, this being around 4 in the afternoon on a Saturday when they were away from home.

[selassie]

Deliberately left it until today for my tuppence worth.

Felt deflated in Saturday, as I was expecting a win at Villa, given how we have been playing recently. What depressed me was not so much the mistake that led to their goal (these things happen - albeit seemingly too much with our players), but how straightforward Villa's game plan was. Dean Smith did not have any magic strategy. He just made sure that his players were absolutely on it from the get go, then really disciplined in defence once they had scored. Not rocket science. And despite us being almost at full strength attacking wise, we had no way through. We seemed always to go for the pass, and allow them to get back into shape when going forwards, and this lack of speed - in thought as well as execution - made us look quite blunt.

2 days later I'm a little more phlegmatic. We are (and always were) a work in progress, and I think that expectiations were raised a bit too high by our little unbeaten run. We are still IMO a long way away from the shambles before Xmas. We have a better shape and more options generally going forwards. I have a bit more faith in Arteta and Edu after our January business - Odegard and Matt Smith look like sensible acqisitions, and while Cedric is not good enough as a back up to Tierney - I am not going to kill them for not finding a better replacement. Aubameyang worries me - and in hindsight his contract renewal looks a bad deal but none of us really thought this at the time. The big black mark is Willian - both the deal and the manager's bewildering continued faith in him - but not much more to say about that.

I still expect us to finish top 10, and as long as we continue to show that there is a game plan on the pitch and can build on this then I will take that this season. However I need the manager and team to show that we really have moved on from the first half of the season - and the more games that go past without 3 points the more shaky our 'renaissance' seems.

:gp:

IBK, pretty much my thoughts too. We are still very much a work in progress. The reality of the situation is that we are very much a Top 10 side, but at the moment, no longer a Top 6 side.

Despite losing back to back games, some of the play has been very encouraging in both the Wolves and Villa games. We are looking more like a "team" now and seem to be slowly developing a style of play. Despite this, we do still lack quality pretty much all over the pitch and I think it's going to take a few more windows to address that. You could also argue that a more experienced high quality manager could address several of the shortcomings in this team, take for example Chelsea hiring Tuchel and him ironing out the weaknesses in Chelsea's team due to Lampard's lack of experience.

Our current league position is pretty much reflective of the level of this team, I do personally think we have drifted quality wise away from the traditional top 6 even though I feel we are good enough to give all of them a very competitive game with the exception of City.

Regarding the Europa league and a possible route into CL, honestly I don't think we are at the level to progress from a CL group assuming we make our way into it via winning the Europa League, to be honest I don't think we are good enough to win the Europa League given the teams left in it.

I wouldn't fancy us to beat any of these sides over 2 legs or a one-off in the Europa League, AC Milan, Spuds, Leicester, Ajax & Man United.

Europa League Ties:

ROUND OF 32




Red Star Belgrade
17:55
AC Milan


Dynamo Kyiv
17:55
Club Bruges


FK Krasnodar
17:55
Dinamo Zagreb


Olympiakos
17:55
PSV Eindhoven


Real Sociedad
17:55
Manchester United


RZ Pellets WAC
17:55
Tottenham Hotspur


Slavia Prague
17:55
Leicester City


Sporting Braga
17:55
Roma


Young Boys
17:55
Bayer 04 Leverkusen


Benfica
20:00
Arsenal


FC Red Bull Salzburg
20:00
Villarreal


Granada
20:00
Napoli


Lille
20:00
Ajax


Maccabi Tel-Aviv
20:00
Shakhtar Donetsk


Molde
20:00
1899 Hoffenheim


Royal Antwerp
20:00
Rangers

[selassie]

Matt Ryan did alright. Solid. Just what you want from a backup keeper.

Referees should all be killed.

Whilst I agree that the state of refereeing in this country is the pits and they do genuinely seem to be very harsh on us, I don't think we should pin our lack of points on them. For instance we should have been 3 nil up at Wolves before the Luiz debacle.

We shouldn't have given away a soft goal at Villa early on, we created enough chances to get something out of the game.

We have been very wasteful in front of goal the past few games, that is more of an issue than the dodgy refereeing IMO.

[IBK]

IBK, pretty much my thoughts too. We are still very much a work in progress. The reality of the situation is that we are very much a Top 10 side, but at the moment, no longer a Top 6 side.

Despite losing back to back games, some of the play has been very encouraging in both the Wolves and Villa games. We are looking more like a "team" now and seem to be slowly developing a style of play. Despite this, we do still lack quality pretty much all over the pitch and I think it's going to take a few more windows to address that. You could also argue that a more experienced high quality manager could address several of the shortcomings in this team, take for example Chelsea hiring Tuchel and him ironing out the weaknesses in Chelsea's team due to Lampard's lack of experience.

Our current league position is pretty much reflective of the level of this team, I do personally think we have drifted quality wise away from the traditional top 6 even though I feel we are good enough to give all of them a very competitive game with the exception of City.

Regarding the Europa league and a possible route into CL, honestly I don't think we are at the level to progress from a CL group assuming we make our way into it via winning the Europa League, to be honest I don't think we are good enough to win the Europa League given the teams left in it.

I wouldn't fancy us to beat any of these sides over 2 legs or a one-off in the Europa League, AC Milan, Spuds, Leicester, Ajax & Man United.

Yep - 100% agree.

I suppose the only real question here is whether we persist with Arteta. The reality is that we should not be surprised about some of the mistakes he hs made - the principal one being his over-reliance on reputations and experience of some senior players, and alienation of younger ones. This is understandable to a degree for a manager who himself lacks experience and is relying on that of his players to help manage his team on the picth and the training ground. What is less so is his stubborn persistence with the likes of Willian when the overwhelming evidence is that he is simply not up to it and his signing was a huge mistake.

I always advocated keeping the manager at least to the end of the season. I still think that we should aim to persevere with Arteta - the Chelsea approach would IMO be a disaster for a club that has been through too much instability already, and we need to take the long view. Whether by accident or design, we are now a team with a far better profile when trying to build a platform for future sucess - even more so if Saliba can be re-integrated successfully, and unlike others I think that we are good to go with a half decent striker (remember we have Martinelli already); a MF (Odegard?) and a back up left back signed in the Summer.

Our January business was much more sensible than some of the previous transfer decisions under this regime, and has made me more confident going forwards.

But...we are now in another crucial stage of the season. IMO our recent revival will count for nothing if we go into another period where we drop more points than we gain, and our seeming improvement on the pitch must now be translated into fewer results than we have seen over the past week. European football seems unlikely next season, but we need to finish close to achieving this for even sesnible fans to feel confident about a future under Arteta.

[IBK]

Whilst I agree that the state of refereeing in this country is the pits and they do genuinely seem to be very harsh on us, I don't think we should pin our lack of points on them. For instance we should have been 3 nil up at Wolves before the Luiz debacle.

We shouldn't have given away a soft goal at Villa early on, we created enough chances to get something out of the game.

We have been very wasteful in front of goal the past few games, that is more of an issue than the dodgy refereeing IMO.

Yep. I'd feel more comfortable focussing on ourselves rather than outside factors that we can't change.

[Mac76]

Yep. I'd feel more comfortable focussing on ourselves rather than outside factors that we can't change.

well i don't agree we can't change it - there's enough clear evidence now for the club's lawyers tp put together a case to clearly show the FA that we get rough treatment and they need to instruct refs to treat us like any other team - preferably spuds who get away with murder.

[Marc Overmars]

But...we are now in another crucial stage of the season. IMO our recent revival will count for nothing if we go into another period where we drop more points than we gain, and our seeming improvement on the pitch must now be translated into fewer results than we have seen over the past week. European football seems unlikely next season, but we need to finish close to achieving this for even sesnible fans to feel confident about a future under Arteta.

I don’t see what’s going to change though. We’ll win a few, draw a few, lose a few. It’s the very definition of a mid table side, it’s the same pattern of form we’ve had for 2 years now. Just meandering along with no relevance to the teams we once considered our rivals.

At the end of last season if someone said we’d be past halfway through this and 9th or 10th (where even are we? I can’t bring myself to look at the table these days) and already lost 10 games we would have considered that a failure. If Arteta doesn’t get us into Europe it would be the first Arsenal team in 25 years to not qualify for Europe...but it would be ok if we showed improvement on the pitch? Without a correlation with results and the league table, what even is improvement?

Of course he should be judged at the end of the season but I don’t like this idea that this season can be written off as more transition. Last season fair enough but this was the year we spoke about last season, he’s brought in his own players, he’s had time to work with the squad but nothing has really changed so far...now you want to kick the can further down the road?

[Letters]

Of course he should be judged at the end of the seaso
What kind of crazy idea is that? :lol:



:coffee:

[Marc Overmars]

It’s the least a rookie deserves in fairness.

Not an old man past his best. :coffee:

[Letters]

You judge any game at its end.
You judge any season at its end.
:)

[IBK]

I don’t see what’s going to change though. We’ll win a few, draw a few, lose a few. It’s the very definition of a mid table side, it’s the same pattern of form we’ve had for 2 years now. Just meandering along with no relevance to the teams we once considered our rivals.

At the end of last season if someone said we’d be past halfway through this and 9th or 10th (where even are we? I can’t bring myself to look at the table these days) and already lost 10 games we would have considered that a failure. If Arteta doesn’t get us into Europe it would be the first Arsenal team in 25 years to not qualify for Europe...but it would be ok if we showed improvement on the pitch? Without a correlation with results and the league table, what even is improvement?

Of course he should be judged at the end of the season but I don’t like this idea that this season can be written off as more transition. Last season fair enough but this was the year we spoke about last season, he’s brought in his own players, he’s had time to work with the squad but nothing has really changed so far...now you want to kick the can further down the road?

I think that this is too simplistic a view. Firstly, it is not just about results when you are trying to re-build a team. It's about many things. Identity; age profile of players; style of play; communication; continuity and a framework for both playing and recruitmment to name just a few. I think that the best example of this in recent times is Klopp's Liverpool team. Klopp inheroted a team; instilled a styleof play and a clear approach to how he wanted to play the game; identified which players fitted this style; communicated his ideas effectively and instiulled belief in them and then together with the executive of the club embarked on process of recruitment and player sales that was incredibly effective because he knew precisely what was needed to get to wherehe wanted to go.

Yes - Liverpool never sunk to where we currently are under Klopp, but at the same time they never had to deal with the chronic instability that we have suffered since Wenger - the inevitable outcome of the end of that all-encompassing regime; the churn at exectutive level; the disastrous appoitnment of Sanheli; the sheer rudderlessness of our recruitment policy and the muddled thinking that left us as a club still wedded to the idea of top 4 football as a 'quick fix' while unable to compete with clubs able simply to buy sucess.

I think it is againstthis background that we need to judge where we have been for the past couple of years and where we need to get to. Emery was always a transition manager. he was appointed IMO with a view to trying to win the Eurpoa League and thereby get into the CL (and in fairness he almost did so). He also nearly achieved top 4 in his first season. But his lack of bottle; clear thinking and communication then broke us and he never got to grips with the mentality of the players. Arteta inherited a complete mess - and noone expected more than he delievered last season.

So we are really talking about this season and this season alone when it comes to evaluating Arteta so far. Pre Xmas he was a disaster, but even then it difficult to argue that he did not do something to address the woeful lack of defensive shape that was Emery's legacy. Since Xmas there have been some green shoots offensively too. There have been changes. It's taken Arteta more time to get there perhaps than a more experienced manager, and there have been some obvious mis-steps but if this is part of a general and sustained improvement that properly steadies us for a push to better things - yes I will take kicking the can down the road.

So for me its not just a question of looking at league position and saying nothing has changed for 2 years. Its a question of seeing this in context, properly considering the realistic alternatives and looking at the stability of the club - without which we will unlimately achieve nothing.

Whether Arteta really has turned a corner remains to be seen...

[Marc Overmars]

Fair enough. Totally understand the need for patience and to examine the context of what’s been going on. My position has always tended to ebb and flow with results but I feel like with Arteta it is the smallest of green shoots and even then I’m struggling to truly believe these shoots exist.

I feel like we’ve been in the wilderness for long enough now that another year doesn’t really matter anyway. We’ve spent like we’re still a CL club but the reality is we’re looking at 5 seasons now without CL football. So that is one mess that needs clearing up and I guess that’s underway by offloading the expensive deadwood.

I’ve always been a glass half empty guy and I guess it’s been difficult accepting such a drop off in standards.

[selassie]

well i don't agree we can't change it - there's enough clear evidence now for the club's lawyers tp put together a case to clearly show the FA that we get rough treatment and they need to instruct refs to treat us like any other team - preferably spuds who get away with murder.

I see where you are coming from but I personally don't think it will make much of a difference. We see what we see because it is personal to us as supporters of Arsenal. I am not saying that we get treated fairly...but if I am honest I don't pay close attention to other teams, not in the same way I do for Arsenal.

I frequent other teams forums at times to see what their general feelings are towards referees and VAR. I was browsing RAWK (Liverpool Forum) the other day and they were complaining about ref injustices and VAR being harsh on them this season, basically stating they had been robbed on numerous occasions.

Refs and VAR are definitely an issue and I do feel we have been hard done by, but we need to fix our teams performances and results, that would go a long way towards improving our current situation.

[IBK]

Fair enough. Totally understand the need for patience and to examine the context of what’s been going on. My position has always tended to ebb and flow with results but I feel like with Arteta it is the smallest of green shoots and even then I’m struggling to truly believe these shoots exist.

I feel like we’ve been in the wilderness for long enough now that another year doesn’t really matter anyway. We’ve spent like we’re still a CL club but the reality is we’re looking at 5 seasons now without CL football. So that is one mess that needs clearing up and I guess that’s underway by offloading the expensive deadwood.

I’ve always been a glass half empty guy and I guess it’s been difficult accepting such a drop off in standards.

I hear where you are coming from, and like you its hurts me to see how far we have fallen. With Arsenal over recent years it always seems to be the hope that kills you, but I guess I have come to the position that there is only one way for us to get back to where we want to get to given the mess we have made of things. I hope Arteta is the right guy for the slow rebuild we need.

[IBK]

I see where you are coming from but I personally don't think it will make much of a difference. We see what we see because it is personal to us as supporters of Arsenal. I am not saying that we get treated fairly...but if I am honest I don't pay close attention to other teams, not in the same way I do for Arsenal.

I frequent other teams forums at times to see what their general feelings are towards referees and VAR. I was browsing RAWK (Liverpool Forum) the other day and they were complaining about ref injustices and VAR being harsh on them this season, basically stating they had been robbed on numerous occasions.

Refs and VAR are definitely an issue and I do feel we have been hard done by, but we need to fix our teams performances and results, that would go a long way towards improving our current situation.

Yes I can't escape the feeling that we focus on Arsenal injustices and miss those that other fans think they suffer. I do think there is a general idea that Arsenal don't 'like it up em', and this may inform some refereeing decisions, but I'm not sure we are as hard done by comparatively as it seems from an objective perspective. We need to focus on trying to change what we can - and a good start would be for our players not to put themselves in a position where refs have a decision to make...

[Letters]

I'm not too despondent after the last 2 games. Disappointing results, but I thought the performance against Wolves was good, the ref just screwed us.
You could argue we should have been more than 1-0 up when the pel was given but we were dominating and I think we'd have gone on to win.
So you can dismiss that one as a bit of a freak game, especially when Leno had a brainfart.

The Villa game...I only saw the second half and actually thought we played OK. We were a bit toothless up front but Villa defended really well. It was a very good and disciplined performance from them. But I didn't feel we were playing like we did early season where we were struggling to make even half chances, there were a lot of last ditch tackles which thwarted us. So I'm a bit more upbeat than I was. An issue is we have a tough run coming up which could continue the loss of momentum.

I'm undecided about Arteta but we might as well stick with him now. We're not going down, we're not going to trouble the top 4 either but bringing someone in now isn't going to change that.

[Bumble]

I'm undecided about Arteta but we might as well stick with him now. We're not going down, we're not going to trouble the top 4 either but bringing someone in now isn't going to change that.
yeah a new manager wont change where we finish particularly, although it might give them room to assess the squad before the summer because there is no risk to make a change now. It could give them time to bed in. I don't think Arteta is right the job, like Lampard the lack of experience is really telling when chasing a game, tactics and substitutions. Lampard got the boot and Chelsea are winning again.

however, I think give him to about October/November time to see where we are at. If there is no noticeable improvement in results and league position then it would be time to go.

[Chippy]

:gp:

The depressing thing for me on Saturday was that we went 1-0 down after just 2 minutes, I just knew we wouldn't get anything out of the game.

We have some good young players and we should get better. However, is Arteta the man to get the best out of them and turn our fortunes around? Personally, I just don't think so :(

* Why does Arteta continue with Luiz, Bellerin, Lacazette, and Willian?
* Why is Saliba still out on loan when he once again got MOTM for Nice at the weekend? (3-0 win).
* Guendouzi is also catching the eye of the Berlin and European press with his performances for Hertha.

Arteta has his obvious favorites, this is why I say "rookie out"!

Terrible commenting on your own post, however, I see that Saliba (mentioned above) has had a moan today about Arteta and why he has not been allowed to stay and play for us.

Cant blame him really, especially as Luiz is in front of him in the pecking order. I just hope he doesn't demand a transfer.

[Mac76]

so, let's see


so far Arteta has managed to publically annoy players like Guen, Ozil and Saliba, the latter of whom was supposed to be an incredibly exciting prosepect when we signed him but has now been alienated to the point where he's basically happy to burn his bridges in public

also he has allegedly annoyed Nelson by freezing him out and playing Willian instead (i believe that's called adding insult to injury)

i think it's safe to say this is definitely an area where Arteta needs to develop his skills

[Chippy]

so, let's see


so far Arteta has managed to publically annoy players like Guen, Ozil and Saliba, the latter of whom was supposed to be an incredibly exciting prosepect when we signed him but has now been alienated to the point where he's basically happy to burn his bridges in public

also he has allegedly annoyed Nelson by freezing him out and playing Willian instead (i believe that's called adding insult to injury)

i think it's safe to say this is definitely an area where Arteta needs to develop his skills

Guendouzi was the the worst one for me.

Unless we are unaware of any other issue, he was basically thrown out because he showed some passion after we lost to Brighton?

What does he want? Someone like Xhaka who has a laugh and a joke with the opposition after a defeat? FFS.

[IBK]

Guendouzi was the the worst one for me.

Unless we are unaware of any other issue, he was basically thrown out because he showed some passion after we lost to Brighton?

What does he want? Someone like Xhaka who has a laugh and a joke with the opposition after a defeat? FFS.

I think that's a bit harsh. We will never know the full story, but it seems like Guendouzi's attitute was not what we want to see from a young player. From what we saw, he is no Saka Martinelli or ESR, but has an arrogance that these better players don't have.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/matteo-guendouzis-reason-snubbing-27m-23321679

Its not like he was ever more than a decent prospect when he played for us, and I don't have an issue with Arteta's approach to him.

Xhaka has been one of our best players since Xmas. Ozil was tried and rejected by 3 managers and is now playing for Fenerbahce.

Saliba was a cock up - but there isn't a single manager out there who hasn't made a mistake with certain players. I will wait to see whether Arteta is man enough to try to repair that relationship.

Willian is what I will beat our manager up for. Worst signing I can remember.

[selassie]

I think that's a bit harsh. We will never know the full story, but it seems like Guendouzi's attitute was not what we want to see from a young player. From what we saw, he is no Saka Martinelli or ESR, but has an arrogance that these better players don't have.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/matteo-guendouzis-reason-snubbing-27m-23321679

Its not like he was ever more than a decent prospect when he played for us, and I don't have an issue with Arteta's approach to him.

Xhaka has been one of our best players since Xmas. Ozil was tried and rejected by 3 managers and is now playing for Fenerbahce.

Saliba was a cock up - but there isn't a single manager out there who hasn't made a mistake with certain players. I will wait to see whether Arteta is man enough to try to repair that relationship.

Willian is what I will beat our manager up for. Worst signing I can remember.

I totally agree with this. I honestly don't see what the fuss is about with Guendouzi, he can't even get regular starts for Hertha Berlin and they are halfway down Bundesliga. He is no more than a good young player, nothing special and certainly not in the same potential level bracket as Saka, ESR or Martinelli.

Guendouzi seems to have an attitude that doesn't match his talent or performance level, he really is not that good.

Xhaka is also a much better player than him, especially given his current form which is the best I have seen from him in an Arsenal shirt and on a consistent basis. I'm no fan of Xhaka, but credit where credit is due, his current form is very good.

[Mac76]

Guendouzi seems to have an attitude that doesn't match is talent or performance level, he really is not that good.


that's Xhaka summed up in one sentence

how you can say his attitude is better than Guen's when Xhaka repeatedly gets sent off and if he isn't fouling the opposition he's laughing and joking with them before and after the match beats me

his performances now are decent, but i think a good deal of his good press is simply because it's such a contrast to how shit he was before

if he'd always played like he does now people would simply say he's an average midfielder but not good enough for where we aim to be

[IBK]

that's Xhaka summed up in one sentence

how you can say his attitude is better than Guen's when Xhaka repeatedly gets sent off and if he isn't fouling the opposition he's laughing and joking with them before and after the match beats me

his performances now are decent, but i think a good deal of his good press is simply because it's such a contrast to how shit he was before

if he'd always played like he does now people would simply say he's an average midfielder but not good enough for where we aim to be

I have been a harsh critic of Xhaka, but I think your analysis is a bit off off the mark. I am not going to defend his rushes of blood per se, but I think the truth about the player is that he is not suited to be the sole MF fulchrum of a team, and I wonder whether the pressure of having been this has led to some of the red cards. Alongside Partey where he can sit deeper, is not a mangnet for what was often a double press from the opposition and can use his passing qualities, he is a different player, and a good one. When he does not have to be further up the pitch (because his presence allows Partey to maraud forwards), his positioning has actually been good.

IIRC he has been MOTM more than once recently. In a vastly improved Arsenal team.

Lauging and joking with the opposition suggests that he does not care, or is not prepared to put the effort in. This is not the player I am seeing. Willian maybe but not Xhaka.

Like I say I am not Xhaka's cheerleader but unfavourably comparing him to Guendouzi is wrong, IMO.

[Mac76]

I have been a harsh critic of Xhaka, but I think your analysis is a bit off off the mark. I am not going to defend his rushes of blood per se, but I think the truth about the player is that he is not suited to be the sole MF fulchrum of a team, and I wonder whether the pressure of having been this has led to some of the red cards. Alongside Partey where he can sit deeper, is not a mangnet for what was often a double press from the opposition and can use his passing qualities, he is a different player, and a good one. When he does not have to be further up the pitch (because his presence allows Partey to maraud forwards), his positioning has actually been good.

IIRC he has been MOTM more than once recently. In a vastly improved Arsenal team.

Lauging and joking with the opposition suggests that he does not care, or is not prepared to put the effort in. This is not the player I am seeing. Willian maybe but not Xhaka.

Like I say I am not Xhaka's cheerleader but unfavourably comparing him to Guendouzi is wrong, IMO.

I don't see how being played out of position leads him to try to throttle an opponent or to put in hopeless tackles which no-one else on the pitch puts in regardless of position.

Even now, with everyone saying how much better he is, he literally gets yellow-carded in every game.

he's essentially an air-head who can take the odd free-kick or long-range pass

again a player who 's maybe good enough for Brighton or Fulham but not us.

[selassie]

that's Xhaka summed up in one sentence

how you can say his attitude is better than Guen's when Xhaka repeatedly gets sent off and if he isn't fouling the opposition he's laughing and joking with them before and after the match beats me

his performances now are decent, but i think a good deal of his good press is simply because it's such a contrast to how shit he was before

if he'd always played like he does now people would simply say he's an average midfielder but not good enough for where we aim to be

Hey Mac, I'm not entirely against what you are saying. I was firmly in the "Xhaka Out" camp after his sending off against Burnley earlier in the season, I'd given up on him, in fact I wanted him gone in the summer.

It's not that I think his attitude is better than Guen's, I just think he is a better player than Guen. If I am honest I have major reservations about both of them, but Xhaka is playing at a high level right now, that can't be denied. He has been consistent too and for well over a month.

Sure, Xhaka can be upgraded, but we have other issues in our team right now that need addressing before him, if Xhaka continues playing at this level then he is no longer an issue...that's all hypothetical of course.

Guen is just a young midfielder with potential, he is not an elite talent and his attitude stinks. I couldn't care less if we kept him or sold him.

[IBK]

I don't see how being played out of position leads him to try to throttle an opponent or to put in hopeless tackles which no-one else on the pitch puts in regardless of position.

Even now, with everyone saying how much better he is, he literally gets yellow-carded in every game.

he's essentially an air-head who can take the odd free-kick or long-range pass

again a player who 's maybe good enough for Brighton or Fulham but not us.

Being played out of position is precisely what might encourage a player to make desperate tackles, although its no reason to try to throttle someone, I accept.

Many of our best ever players, and many good players in general receive a lot of yellow cards.

Like Selassie says, I'm not saying we can't upgrade on Xhaka, but ATM he is not the team's issue. And he is a better, proven player than Guendouzi, IMO.

[selassie]

so, let's see


so far Arteta has managed to publically annoy players like Guen, Ozil and Saliba, the latter of whom was supposed to be an incredibly exciting prosepect when we signed him but has now been alienated to the point where he's basically happy to burn his bridges in public

also he has allegedly annoyed Nelson by freezing him out and playing Willian instead (i believe that's called adding insult to injury)

i think it's safe to say this is definitely an area where Arteta needs to develop his skills

I do think Arteta's man-management skills need to improve. I also think he needs to improve his level of coaching and the performance levels and results of the team if he wants to keep his job, but ultimately we are stuck with him for now.

Given his lack of experience, he has done ok to date, the FA Cup win last season was impressive given the circumstances involved including the draw and teams we beat.

Another season of us languishing mid table around the likes of Southampton and Crystal Palace will not be accepted by me, especially given we have lost more games in PL than we have won this season, these standards should not be tolerated at Arsenal over a sustained period.

Arteta has a very difficult job and he inherited a dysfunctional squad with numerous issues, but progress is being made albeit very slowly.