Same old V Liverpool

[Chippy]

Predictable result. No goals. Spuds gain on us.

Shit.

[Bumble]

Liverpool are a quality side with strength in depth. We played well first half but once they scored we struggled to create much. It's not all bad, actually think we have played the hardest remaining fixture and still sit in 4th with 4th place in our hands. Definitely would have taken this at start of season

[Marc Overmars]

Liverpool are a far superior team. Disappointing again to not really look like getting a result but how we react at Villa will be more telling.

[I am invisible]

It might not feel like it, but we are gradually improving in these games. The panicky, PTSD moments are gone and we no longer go from 1 to 5 down in the blink of an eye. We matched them for about 40 minutes at anfield earlier in the season - yesterday we lasted about 60 minutes before we cracked (and even then we still had a couple of decent chances). It’s gradual, but it’s going the right way.

The fact is they’re just a better, more rounded side than us right now. They already have the exact players they want in every position whereas our best XI is still short a striker and a left 6-8. They have strength in depth where our squad is thin - losing someone like Tomiyasu hurts us, whereas they can casually bring Jota on for Firminio, Diaz on for Salah, etc, and have more options from the bench. They have an average of 3-4 years more experience than us per player.

(Plus it feels like there’s a ‘bogey team’ element at play here - I don’t know whether it’s a fundamental mismatch in styles that disadvantages us, or a just psychological / belief thing that we need to get over, but it always feels like we’re battling an extra… ‘something’ against liverpool?)

We’ll get there, but don’t forget we’re not even 1 year into this rebuild yet - we’ll need at least another couple of good windows and 2-3 years more experience before we’re at their level.

[I am invisible]

On the plus side, the reaction from the fans in the stadium was incredible again - keep that going and it’ll be when, not if we start challenging.

[I am invisible]

Liverpool are a far superior team. Disappointing again to not really look like getting a result but how we react at Villa will be more telling.
:good:

It may not be pretty after 2.5 days recovery and trying to bounce back from a defeat, but if we can find a way to take 3 points in a crunch game at Villa then you have to say this team has grown.

We’re clearly still some way off the top two, but I really don’t feel we’re far off Chelsea’s level already? City are better and more consistent than us against all opponents and across a long season and 4 competitions, but I now fancy us to at least give them a game in our head-to-heads - our style just seems to match theirs up pretty well.

Liverpool is still the yardstick for us - an adhoc spot-test that we take twice a year to measure progress and get an idea of what we still need to do.

[selassie]

Liverpool are a far superior team. Disappointing again to not really look like getting a result but how we react at Villa will be more telling.

This.

They are a few levels above us and it showed in the second half last night. It's frustrating that we can't seem to get anything out of the games against the likes of them and City but we are improving.

Big game up at Villa on Saturday, the pressure is on us now to put to bed these kind of games if we want to finish 4th, it won't be easy either.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It might not feel like it, but we are gradually improving in these games. The panicky, PTSD moments are gone and we no longer go from 1 to 5 down in the blink of an eye. We matched them for about 40 minutes at anfield earlier in the season - yesterday we lasted about 60 minutes before we cracked (and even then we still had a couple of decent chances). It’s gradual, but it’s going the right way.

The fact is they’re just a better, more rounded side than us right now. They already have the exact players they want in every position whereas our best XI is still short a striker and a left 6-8. They have strength in depth where our squad is thin - losing someone like Tomiyasu hurts us, whereas they can casually bring Jota on for Firminio, Diaz on for Salah, etc, and have more options from the bench. They have an average of 3-4 years more experience than us per player.

(Plus it feels like there’s a ‘bogey team’ element at play here - I don’t know whether it’s a fundamental mismatch in styles that disadvantages us, or a just psychological / belief thing that we need to get over, but it always feels like we’re battling an extra… ‘something’ against liverpool?)

We’ll get there, but don’t forget we’re not even 1 year into this rebuild yet - we’ll need at least another couple of good windows and 2-3 years more experience before we’re at their level.

That is a really good analysis.

The part relating to how we react to losing a goal and the impact of that in big games is telling.

We no longer have a glass jaw. Now we need someone in the lineup that can be relied upon to deliver a killer punch when needed.

[I am invisible]

They're still clearly a cut above us right now, but the gulf is no longer monstrous - this game was very much won and lost in the margins and quality in key moments. There were a couple of promising moves that just broke down at the last moment yesterday because there wasn't a good option on for the final pass, and we had a couple of great chances that we just couldn't put away because the players they fell to haven't developed that composure and killer instinct that comes with experience yet.

That can change quickly though - just look at the difference in Smith Rowe's output from last year to this year. At some point, these players will have their 'Ah ha!' moment, where they'll do something different in front of goal that suddenly makes it all make sense. Get a striker in who can do everything Lacazette does and also keep up with play and we'll give them a serious fright next year.

[Letters]

It might not feel like it, but we are gradually improving in these games. The panicky, PTSD moments are gone and we no longer go from 1 to 5 down in the blink of an eye. We matched them for about 40 minutes at anfield earlier in the season - yesterday we lasted about 60 minutes before we cracked (and even then we still had a couple of decent chances). It’s gradual, but it’s going the right way.

The fact is they’re just a better, more rounded side than us right now. They already have the exact players they want in every position whereas our best XI is still short a striker and a left 6-8. They have strength in depth where our squad is thin - losing someone like Tomiyasu hurts us, whereas they can casually bring Jota on for Firminio, Diaz on for Salah, etc, and have more options from the bench. They have an average of 3-4 years more experience than us per player.

(Plus it feels like there’s a ‘bogey team’ element at play here - I don’t know whether it’s a fundamental mismatch in styles that disadvantages us, or a just psychological / belief thing that we need to get over, but it always feels like we’re battling an extra… ‘something’ against liverpool?)

We’ll get there, but don’t forget we’re not even 1 year into this rebuild yet - we’ll need at least another couple of good windows and 2-3 years more experience before we’re at their level.

Who died and made you Letters? This is the sort of level headed post I'd have made back in the day.
I'm actually annoyed and disappointed about last night. I agree with everything you've said but I've been worn down by years of performances and results like this where we basically play well but get beaten anyway. But yeah, Liverpool are a level or two above us - above pretty much everyone really. Sure they'll have off days but in big games like this you can be pretty sure they'll do the job like we used to back in the day. I do believe we are heading in the right direction but the Villa game is key now. We could afford to lose last night but we don't have much room for error now. All the contenders for top 4 will drop points but we have to get going again at the weekend. If we do then I'll start to believe we have a very good chance of top 4. If we mess that one up then I fear another collapse.

[Mac76]

Who died and made you Letters? This is the sort of level headed post I'd have made back in the day.
I'm actually annoyed and disappointed about last night. I agree with everything you've said but I've been worn down by years of performances and results like this where we basically play well but get beaten anyway. But yeah, Liverpool are a level or two above us - above pretty much everyone really. Sure they'll have off days but in big games like this you can be pretty sure they'll do the job like we used to back in the day. I do believe we are heading in the right direction but the Villa game is key now. We could afford to lose last night but we don't have much room for error now. All the contenders for top 4 will drop points but we have to get going again at the weekend. If we do then I'll start to believe we have a very good chance of top 4. If we mess that one up then I fear another collapse.

yes am worried about the Villa game, let's hope we pick ourselves up for that.

i am concerned about the thinness of the squad and feel like Arteta coudl have just rotated a bit more here and there, even if just bringing subs on earlier

we were just not quite there in the first half in terms of making the most of some opportunities we had to really test them in front of goal, one or two overplayed or underplayed passes here and there at crucial moments, one from Odegaard to Saka springs to mind in particular when he underplayed it when Saka was in a really good position

got to say Ramsdale should have done better for both goals - also he got a bit obsessed with kicking the ball forward to Saka almost every time, which got a bit predictable

thought Cedric had another very good game overall, while I'll obvs be happy to have Tomi back i think he's doing a really great job

predictably I'll say Xhaka looked patchy and is sticking out more and more like a sore thumb as just being too slow for what we're trying to do - i noticed that Gabreil and others were basically avoiding passing to him in the first half, i think they realised Liverpool woudl be on him straight away to win the ball and also maybe provoke him into another red

other than that Martinelli was superb

I don't think we'll make top 4 but just hope we can somehow stay above Spuds - the fixture list doesn't help - Chelsea Weds evening and the early kick off for Man Ure the following Saturday... no wonder Arteta's annoyed

[selassie]

yes am worried about the Villa game, let's hope we pick ourselves up for that.

i am concerned about the thinness of the squad and feel like Arteta coudl have just rotated a bit more here and there, even if just bringing subs on earlier

we were just not quite there in teh first half in terms of making the most of some opportunities we had to really test them in front of goal, one or two overplayed or underplayed passes here adn there at crucial momments, one form Odegaard to Saka springs to mind in particular when he underplayed it when Saka was in a really good position

got to say Ramsdale should have done better for both goals - also he got a bit obsessed with kicking the ball forward to Saka almost every time, which got a bit predictable

thought Cedric had another very good game overall, while I'll obvs be happy to have Tomi back i think he's doing a really great job

other than that Martinelli was superb

I don;t facny top 4 but jsut hope we can somehow stay above Spuds - the fixture list doesn't help - Chelsea Weds evening and the early kick off for Man Ure the following Saturday... no wonder Arteta's annoyed

About the Villa game and the remaining schedule. If we are good enough we will get the points on board to finish 4th, it’s still in our hands regardless of last night’s outcome.

As others have said there is little margin for error now, this team is going to need to stand up and battle it out for 4th place.

I personally think our run in is tricky…but it is what it is and our record against the teams outside the top 4 is near flawless so the quality and performance level is there for us to do the job.

Our biggest issue is going to be managing the small squad, no way we can expect the same level of performance if we continue to pick the same 11 every game. At some point the likes of Saka, Laca, Martinelli & Odegaard are going to need to be rotated with the likes of ESR, Pepe & Eddie.

[Chippy]

yes am worried about the Villa game, let's hope we pick ourselves up for that.

i am concerned about the thinness of the squad and feel like Arteta coudl have just rotated a bit more here and there, even if just bringing subs on earlier

we were just not quite there in the first half in terms of making the most of some opportunities we had to really test them in front of goal, one or two overplayed or underplayed passes here and there at crucial moments, one from Odegaard to Saka springs to mind in particular when he underplayed it when Saka was in a really good position

got to say Ramsdale should have done better for both goals - also he got a bit obsessed with kicking the ball forward to Saka almost every time, which got a bit predictable

thought Cedric had another very good game overall, while I'll obvs be happy to have Tomi back i think he's doing a really great job

predictably I'll say Xhaka looked patchy and is sticking out more and more like a sore thumb as just being too slow for what we're trying to do - i noticed that Gabreil and others were basically avoiding passing to him in the first half, i think they realised Liverpool woudl be on him straight away to win the ball and also maybe provoke him into another red

other than that Martinelli was superb

I don't think we'll make top 4 but just hope we can somehow stay above Spuds - the fixture list doesn't help - Chelsea Weds evening and the early kick off for Man Ure the following Saturday... no wonder Arteta's annoyed

The only good thing about the early KO against United is that there is very little travel involved as both games are in London.

We also need to rotate a bit more.

During the War! We used to play 4 games in a week on 5 inches of mud with a ball that weighed a ton! :oldboy:

[Marc Overmars]

We haven’t had to rotate because we’ve been playing every 7-10 days. Also, who do we rotate though? The only viable options on the bench last night were ESR and Pepe. The squad is mostly shit beyond the first 11, Arteta doesn’t trust any of them.

We’re only talking ESR/Martinelli really who could be interchanged seamlessly.

[Letters]

During the War! We used to play 4 games in a week on 5 inches of mud with a ball that weighed a ton! :oldboy:
Ha. Dad told me that back in the day they'd sometimes have the two North London Derbies over Christmas, one on Christmas Day and the other on Boxing Day.
Thems were the days!

[Chippy]

Ha. Dad told me that back in the day they'd sometimes have the two North London Derbies over Christmas, one on Christmas Day and the other on Boxing Day.
Thems were the days!

Lol.
Your Dad is quite right.

Not quite as brutal as the day after, but I remember watching Watford v Arsenal on Boxing Day and then the away fixture on the 28th!

[Mac76]

We haven’t had to rotate because we’ve been playing every 7-10 days. Also, who do we rotate though? The only viable options on the bench last night were ESR and Pepe. The squad is mostly shit beyond the first 11, Arteta doesn’t trust any of them.

We’re only talking ESR/Martinelli really who could be interchanged seamlessly.

we need to start using Lokonga more instead of Xhaka too, plus making sure Holding and Tavares are getting some game time - they can all do fine against the right opposition

[I am invisible]

That is a really good analysis.

The part relating to how we react to losing a goal and the impact of that in big games is telling.

We no longer have a glass jaw. Now we need someone in the lineup that can be relied upon to deliver a killer punch when needed.
You can even see it on an individual level. Ben White had a torrid time against Toney in his debut, and you could see all the pundits and papers were just itching to wheel out the lazy ‘soft Arsenal player’ narrative - since then he seems to have made it a personal mission to prove that he’s decent in the air and won’t be bullied, and that he even has some dark arts about him, and he’s pretty much nipped it in the bud before it could gain any traction.

[selassie]

We haven’t had to rotate because we’ve been playing every 7-10 days. Also, who do we rotate though? The only viable options on the bench last night were ESR and Pepe. The squad is mostly shit beyond the first 11, Arteta doesn’t trust any of them.

We’re only talking ESR/Martinelli really who could be interchanged seamlessly.

Up until now the schedule has been fine, but come next month we have one week where we play 3 games, or something like 5 in 15 days, we will definitely need to rotate a bit.

I agree we don't really have decent back up options outside of ESR, but the likes of Pepe, Cedric (assuming Tomi comes back) & Tavares are decent enough. Holding and Elneny / Lokonga are passable depending on opposition.

[I am invisible]

we need to start using Lokonga more instead of Xhaka too, plus making sure Holding and Tavares are getting some game time - they can all do fine against the right opposition
Lokonga’s an odd one - it’s starting to feel a bit like when Martinelli disappeared off the face of the earth last year, and we were all scratching our heads wondering why we weren’t using him. Then he comes back into the side this year and starts tearing it up, and looks like he’s been of training with Shaolin monks or something! I wonder if we’ve got Sambi on some kind of secret, fast-track training somewhere, getting him ready for a big reveal next season?

Tavares I expect we’ll see more of once Tomi’s back - we like to have one attacking fullback and one defensive / balancing fullback, and right now our LB has to be the defensive one because we only have an attacking RB available. Of the two LBs you’re not going to get Tavares to stay back.