Season autopsy v Newcastle

[Marc Overmars]

Well, we knew they were a young team probably punching above their weight and since that Leeds second half really, they’ve just looked like a frightened bunch of boys who weren’t ready.


As soon as CL qualification became EXPECTED, rather than a pipe dream, they folded like a pack of cards. Lost all the composure that got them into a position to challenge in the first place. I’m gutted and even more so that it’s fucking Spurs who will beat us to the finish after we were in the driving seat for so long.


There’s a lot of good to take on board from this season but we’ve also lost 13 games, a third of the fixtures which is woeful. We’ve also conceded more than last year and only score one more as well.


If you want to look at it from a purely positional view then yeah, 8th to 5th is fine but there are some huge underlying issues here and work to be done. Starting with the attack because it’s horrendously average, how many games have we drawn a blank this season and not even looked like scoring?


Ah well. Fuck football, there’s always next year.

[Niall_Quinn]

Same story for 10 years and no sign of change. The club is rotten at the core. Until every last person involved with the club is gone, nothing will change. That includes most of the fans who have been rabbiting on about "progress"

[Gooner23]

I didn't expect champions league at the start of the season but to be in this position and miss out, especially to those cunts, really hurts.

I do see some promising signs but right now it's hard to look past the results.

[Marc Overmars]

We’ve a good group but it’s a group that desperately needs a sprinkling of quality. We’ve got enough triers but no killers to make the difference.

[Letters]

Always felt Spurs were more likely to get it - they have Son and Kane up front and we…don’t.
And while I do think Auba had to go, failing to sign anyone in January left us with a very thin squad and no striker to speak of. For a while we were getting away with it and grinding out results. I think if you’d told us that with 2 games to go CL qualification would be in our hands then we’d have taken it, but the failure to finish the job is wearyingly familiar.

We are a work in progress and I think if we add a proper striker and some more depth there is the makings of a good team here. I kinda think Arteta should get another season but it’s Top 4 or bust next year.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Dreadful performance in a must win game.

+9 GD.

It's difficult to really talk about improvement with that now.

Yes 5th is higher than 8th of course but the ending...jesus that was grim.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Always felt Spurs were more likely to get it - they have Son and Kane up front and we…don’t.
And while I do think Auba had to go, failing to sign anyone in January left us with a very thin squad and no striker to speak of. For a while we were getting away with it and grinding out results. I think if you’d told us that with 2 games to go CL qualification would be in our hands then we’d have taken it, but the failure to finish the job is wearyingly familiar.

We are a work in progress and I think if we add a proper striker and some more depth there is the makings of a good team here. I kinda think Arteta should get another season but it’s Top 4 or bust next year.

I have a spoiler alert for you.

[Letters]

I have a spoiler alert for you.
:lol:

<_<

[dazthegooner]

Well, some of the players we've been linked with for next season wanted to sign on the basis that we qualified for the Champions league, so we'll now have to sign the knock offs that we can get.

[Niall_Quinn]

On a positive note, we just won the Top 5 trophy. Utd can't catch us. There are many clubs who would dream of winning the Top 5 Trophy. Like my local village pub team, who are on par with some of the clubs who will compete in the Shitkicker Cup next season. Dynamo Cesspit, Red Star Colostomy, it's all to play for in 2023.

[Marc Overmars]

Wonder if that’s blown our chances of getting Gabriel Jesus too. The snobbery I’ve read about him since we’ve been linked, you’d think we have a prime fucking Henry up front or something.

[Chippy]

I didn't expect champions league at the start of the season but to be in this position and miss out, especially to those cunts, really hurts.

I do see some promising signs but right now it's hard to look past the results.

Even more painful is that Kane and Son will stay put and they will attract more quality.
Thanks Arteta and the rest of the bottle jobs who don't give a f### about this club.
Bloody shambles.

[Chippy]

Same story for 10 years and no sign of change. The club is rotten at the core. Until every last person involved with the club is gone, nothing will change. That includes most of the fans who have been rabbiting on about "progress"
Progress:lol:

[selassie]

We’ve missed a big opportunity and if I’m honest I don’t think Spurs under Conte with Champions League football or United under ETH will be so inconsistent next season. Arteta & Edu have a lot of work to do this summer improving the team and convincing some of their targets to come here. Hiding behind a young squad won’t work with me next season, no more excuses, get this club back in the Top 4 and challenging for trophies, it’s what we all want and it’s what we should expect if you are spending upwards of 100 Million every summer.

[Mac76]

As soon as CL qualification became EXPECTED, rather than a pipe dream, they folded like a pack of cards. Lost all the composure that got them into a position to challenge in the first place. I’m gutted and even more so that it’s fucking Spurs who will beat us to the finish after we were in the driving seat for so long.


Things like bringing in that fucking bullshit anthem didn't help either, it just ramped up the pressure

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Same story for 10 years and no sign of change. The club is rotten at the core. Until every last person involved with the club is gone, nothing will change. That includes most of the fans who have been rabbiting on about "progress"

:gp:

Probably your best post ever.

And just as you called it the usual suspects are seeing "Progress"...this is a guy who in his first season won the FA cup beating Citeh and Chelsea, got narrowly knocked out of the League cup by a respectable Liverpool and only fluffed the EL in the knockout stages while still ensuring some WC eyecandy in his team like Auba, Laca and Ozil.

He has now managed to do exactly what this season? Finish behind Chelsea and Tottenham for the 3rd year in a row, clear out all our world class stars and revive a dying Barcelona team with a supposed Trojan Horse that we are still waiting to go "Trojan"! I mean what really has he achieved...wow he has managed to come 5th by ensuring we play 16 games less than we did every other season we achieved this and more!! Forgetting that all our rivals above us have played considerably more games this season and are still counting silverware.

Well the good news is he has at least managed to get to where Emery was after his first full season, though now his win % is actually worst than Emery's....but yeah thats what Arsenal fans call "Progress"....a manager who takes us full circle while actively weakning us and making us unattractive to the world recruitment wise.

This experiment is a joke and as usual the same set of fans are the ones who are most culpable for being the active enablers for this sort of competitive wretchedness. Mannnn..... this saga is all to boring and predictable.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Next season is going to be so fucking weird with the league stopping in November for the World Cup.

Failing to make Champions League and having to go through interminable sagas in order to sign players once more is a real kick in the dick.

Arteta cannot afford to have the same slow start and also we cannot have the same incompetence we've seen in being goal threats for most of the season.

Also Xhaka has to go, he has been a monument to our fall League wise. We haven't made the Champions League since he has been here and he is calling out other players for not having the balls to be here?

He's not wrong on that I suppose but coming from him is a lot to take!

[Mac76]

:gp:

Probably your best post ever.
.

That's a very low bar

[Mac76]

Also Xhaka has to go, he has been a monument to our fall League wise.


Now we're talking, totally right, he's a complete banter player who would've been benched and then sold by any self-respecting club long ago

[Globalgunner]

There is no rebuilding with Arteta at the helm next season. Spuds United Chelsea Newcastle West ham. Those are the teams we need to beat next season to make progress. All have vastly better managers. We will write be here same time next year lamenting another lost season. No doubt about it.. Arteta is a bust.

[Bumble]

In the same way the season Leicester won the league we missed our chance. Think not finishing 4th this season was our chance, as next will be significantly harder. United cant be as rubbish as they were this season once they get rid of the poisoned apples like pogba. Spurs haven't made cl will quality manager will invest. And Newcastle will the money they have will be targeting top 6 as a launch pad to Cl football the year after

What a shambles saga will end up at Liverpool and turning into the new salah

[Marc Overmars]

Xhaka’s interview. :lol:

What a dick, coming from the poster boy of an Arsenal team who’ve never qualified for the CL. That has to be the end of him.

Tavares with the foul throw too, absolute waster. I know he’s a kid but some of the shit he does has to be seen to be believed. Can’t be dealing with players like this, composure is everything and he has none of it. Hopefully he’s loaned out or even sold to make way for that Scottish kid from Italy.

[Munchies]

Keep saying to myself how I don't care about Arsenal and whatnot, however this season I found myself starting to really support us again and defeats started to go from laughing about it to actually getting really pissed off again. Especially as it was against Spurs and the premise of CL returning again, which would have been a springboard to push on with.

Except, same old shit. Wonder why we all bother getting sucked into this. It's difficult not to at times.

Arteta's SOLE goal was top 4 this season, he HAS to go.

[Munchies]

The Amazon documentary should be funny seeing Arteta have no clue what he's doing

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'm honestly totally fucked off with the lot of them.

Anyone thinking that we are over reaching or were lucky to be in the fight for 4th place is having a laugh.

After January when we stripped the team bare, I said we should have signed a striker at least - but I get the gamble as to why we didnt.
However, the league was all we had left to play for.

And every game was pretty much a copy of the last one. Same team, same tactics, same boringly slow, passing back to goal continually, pathetic football.

Arteta has no clue when the chips are down, he got lucky in a few games, brought a sub on who made difference, etc - but ultimately, same old shit.
Our attack is pathetic, the recent games where we have scored have been the exception rather than the rule. Most of the time it's an abysmal final third display of swinging the ball from one side of the pitch to the other, waiting for the entire opposition team to get back and defend. Looking to pas the ball into the box to a player who has his back to goal, waiting to lay off to someone else - who inexplicably - is waiting to pass to another player rather than shoot.

Seriously?!?

You can do these little lays offs at times, but not every single attack. it's mind numbingly stupid.

The point is, we were in pole position to finish 4th 10 weeks ago. 3 games in hand that we preceded to piss away by losing all of them against teams that were worse than us.
Spuds I can forgive as it was always going to be tricky, but last night only 1 team turned up, the pussies in yellow were there to make up the numbers.

Totally fucking lame, and Arteta's desperation of chucking everyone on (especially Pepe that he has ignored for most of the season) hoping to get a result, just shows how lucky and out of his depth he has been.

What an absolute let down this is - and the guy gets a contract extension - figures :rolleyes:

Arsenal FC - 'Always rewarding failiure'

[Letters]

Arteta's SOLE goal was top 4 this season, he HAS to go.
According to who?
Tbh I didn’t think we’d finish top 4. The top 2 are clearly miles above us. I thought Chelsea were too although they’ve not been as far above us as I thought they would be. So that only leaves one space, I didn’t think we were more likely than Spurs or Utd to get it, and West Ham are sniffing around.
If you’d said we’d have Top 4 in our hands with 2 games left then I’d definitely have taken it, but it’s disappointing (although very Groundhog Day) that we’ve fallen flat on our faces again.
At times it’s felt like progress, at other times it’s been same old Arsenal

[Niall_Quinn]

So the bunch of suits they brought in to investigate the club culture sure have an easy ride. A decade of the same mistakes, repeating, getting the same outcomes. As simple as A, B, Shit.

They bring a young manager in to see if he can shake things up. Worth a punt seeing as everything else failed, and failed spectacularly. Then they do the same old shit again. Set the Top 4 Trophy as the goal. The goal should have been to play good, competitive football. Fuck the top 4 BS, just focus on purging the Barca-Lite craziness. Get the ball up the pitch and score a goal. Stop the other side scoring when they have the ball. Attack. Defence. Balance. Control. Strategy. Tactics. Each player drilled in the basics. Passing. Movement. Cover. Fucking THROW-INS even. Taking a corner. Avoiding panic when the ball arrives. All that usual shit that other teams seem to be able to achieve.

I watched carefully last night how Newcastle always looked to get the ball forwards to the players who were causing our defence the biggest problems. I mean, DUH! Of course that's what they did. And it worked. Obviously.

I also watched Arsenal fluttering around in their pretty patterns, tip-tap, sideways, backwards, always picking the easy option. And even then the passing wasn't crisp. The players were falling over their own bloody feet. No composure. No movement. No options. Until HOOF. Up went the ball, usually lost, otherwise into pointless areas where the recipient had almost no chance of success. What is that all about? What's the point of it? I think once in the entire 90 minutes there was a decent 30 seconds where the midfield moved the ball swiftly and accurately up the pitch, through the middle. So they can do it if they want to. But instead the entire focus is obviously on keeping the ball, even if they do nothing with it.

This has to change. The shit we play is not football, it's the avoidance of football. It's as if they are all terrified all the time. Haven't watched many games this season, but every time I did it was the same. Not as bad as yesterday, maybe. But huge swathes of the game bathed in pointless tapping around. It's not as if we even dominate possession these days. The players aren't good enough for that. It's not as if we wear the opponent down, not at the snail's pace we play at. Opposition defenders can stop for a tea break before getting back to cover our plodding progression.

Now that Arteta will be around for the next few years at least, he'd better find some balls, take some risks and open up our game. If he doesn't have the players to do it he better get them. It wouldn't cost a fortune. Plenty of players who can do the basics. We need eleven solid players, not two star names to placate the fans. They wouldn't be stars for long anyway. One sign of ambition or one step out of the pretty patterns and they'd be benched. So why bother? Arteta couldn't get Ozil onside. He couldn't get Auba onside. He can't get anything out of Lacazette. But he might be able to work with the younger players on some sort of game that is more suited to this league. Leave the fancy stuff for clubs that go the extra mile to sign the players who can pull it off.

Oh, and stop passing the fucking thing around at the back. What's that even about? What does it achieve? How can it be a good plan to fuck around in your own penalty box?

[KSE Comedy Club]

So the bunch of suits they brought in to investigate the club culture sure have an easy ride. A decade of the same mistakes, repeating, getting the same outcomes. As simple as A, B, Shit.

They bring a young manager in to see if he can shake things up. Worth a punt seeing as everything else failed, and failed spectacularly. Then they do the same old shit again. Set the Top 4 Trophy as the goal. The goal should have been to play good, competitive football. Fuck the top 4 BS, just focus on purging the Barca-Lite craziness. Get the ball up the pitch and score a goal. Stop the other side scoring when they have the ball. Attack. Defence. Balance. Control. Strategy. Tactics. Each player drilled in the basics. Passing. Movement. Cover. Fucking THROW-INS even. Taking a corner. Avoiding panic when the ball arrives. All that usual shit that other teams seem to be able to achieve.

I watched carefully last night how Newcastle always looked to get the ball forwards to the players who were causing our defence the biggest problems. I mean, DUH! Of course that's what they did. And it worked. Obviously.

I also watched Arsenal fluttering around in their pretty patterns, tip-tap, sideways, backwards, always picking the easy option. And even then the passing wasn't crisp. The players were falling over their own bloody feet. No composure. No movement. No options. Until HOOF. Up went the ball, usually lost, otherwise into pointless areas where the recipient had almost no chance of success. What is that all about? What's the point of it? I think once in the entire 90 minutes there was a decent 30 seconds where the midfield moved the ball swiftly and accurately up the pitch, through the middle. So they can do it if they want to. But instead the entire focus is obviously on keeping the ball, even if they do nothing with it.

This has to change. The shit we play is not football, it's the avoidance of football. It's as if they are all terrified all the time. Haven't watched many games this season, but every time I did it was the same. Not as bad as yesterday, maybe. But huge swathes of the game bathed in pointless tapping around. It's not as if we even dominate possession these days. The players aren't good enough for that. It's not as if we wear the opponent down, not at the snail's pace we play at. Opposition defenders can stop for a tea break before getting back to cover our plodding progression.

Now that Arteta will be around for the next few years at least, he'd better find some balls, take some risks and open up our game. If he doesn't have the players to do it he better get them. It wouldn't cost a fortune. Plenty of players who can do the basics. We need eleven solid players, not two star names to placate the fans. They wouldn't be stars for long anyway. One sign of ambition or one step out of the pretty patterns and they'd be benched. So why bother? Arteta couldn't get Ozil onside. He couldn't get Auba onside. He can't get anything out of Lacazette. But he might be able to work with the younger players on some sort of game that is more suited to this league. Leave the fancy stuff for clubs that go the extra mile to sign the players who can pull it off.

Oh, and stop passing the fucking thing around at the back. What's that even about? What does it achieve? How can it be a good plan to fuck around in your own penalty box?

Exactly.

Possession in our own half seem to be our entire game plan and I have no idea why??

Possession does not win you games, goals do - and we seem to be worried about attacking to much, too quickly or too decisively

[HCZ_Reborn]

Where does Xhaka get the balls ?

One footed, clueless simpleton should look at his own performance and character before mouthing off

Has he ever considered that players were nervous because they have him as a team mate and they can’t rely on him to track back, not to give the ball away under no pressure and be anything other than querulous in positional play.

Don’t get me wrong, utterly insipid load of shit from everyone last night but people in glass houses shouldn’t be lobbing boulders

[Niall_Quinn]

Where does Xhaka get the balls ?

One footed, clueless simpleton should look at his own performance and character before mouthing off

Has he ever considered that players were nervous because they have him as a team mate and they can’t rely on him to track back, not to give the ball away under no pressure and be anything other than querulous in positional play.

Don’t get me wrong, utterly insipid load of shit from everyone last night but people in glass houses shouldn’t be lobbing boulders

I thought you were dead?

[HCZ_Reborn]

I thought you were dead?

I was, but it was ever so mundane

But in honesty I was thinking of leave it longer before I was resurrected. Give people time to question whether I ever existed or I was just like the image of God one picks up in their carpet pattern when they’ve been drinking

[selassie]

Xhaka’s interview. :lol:

What a dick, coming from the poster boy of an Arsenal team who’ve never qualified for the CL. That has to be the end of him.

Tavares with the foul throw too, absolute waster. I know he’s a kid but some of the shit he does has to be seen to be believed. Can’t be dealing with players like this, composure is everything and he has none of it. Hopefully he’s loaned out or even sold to make way for that Scottish kid from Italy.

He has some nerve right? Mind you I hope he was speaking for himself as one of the players who should go home etc

The past couple of games have exposed the team, squad and manager for what they are, not good enough and not aggressive enough. We have gone out on a whimper, destroyed by two opponents who up until a few weeks ago we would have said we should be getting something from the games.

Tavares needs to be sold, he is an awful player who makes BIG mistakes every game, he isn't very good offensively and is a mess defensively.

[KSE Comedy Club]

He has some nerve right? Mind you I hope he was speaking for himself as one of the players who should go home etc

The past couple of games have exposed the team, squad and manager for what they are, not good enough and not aggressive enough. We have gone out on a whimper, destroyed by two opponents who up until a few weeks ago we would have said we should be getting something from the games.

Tavares needs to be sold, he is an awful player who makes BIG mistakes every game, he isn't very good offensively and is a mess defensively.

Tavares was an Arteta siging.

yay.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think Tavares is a lot like Andre Santos, can’t defend for shit but can be quite a menace going forward

If we buy that Scots boy I’d play him further forward….we have a thin squad, it’s good to have options on the left wing

[selassie]

Tavares was an Arteta siging.

yay.

Arteta needs to teach Tavares how to take a throw in. He can then tell him how to pass to a team mate. Tavares gets the basics wrong, it's tragic stuff.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Arteta needs to teach Tavares how to take a throw in. He can then tell him how to pass to a team mate. Tavares gets the basics wrong, it's tragic stuff.

My point was, we can't afford for Arteta to buy any more shit players like this.

Him and Edu have to get it 100% right this summer

[selassie]

My point was, we can't afford for Arteta to buy any more shit players like this.

Him and Edu have to get it 100% right this summer

Oh I agree. I think Arteta & Edu's hopeful punts have largely been misses, players like Tavares, Sambi-Lokonga to a lesser degree. The likes of Ramsdale, Tomi, White and Odegaard have been relative successes but they are semi-established players now and had a fair bit of experience before they joined us.

We need to be targeting first team players this summer, those are the kind of signings we need and pretty much in every area of the team, I.E. a couple of forwards, a new central midfielder, maybe two, a wide player to replace Pepe who I assume will be leaving and genuine cover for both full back positions.

Arteta & Edu have a lot of work to do this summer.

[IBK]

Oh I agree. I think Arteta & Edu's hopeful punts have largely been misses, players like Tavares, Sambi-Lokonga to a lesser degree. The likes of Ramsdale, Tomi, White and Odegaard have been relative successes but they are semi-established players now and had a fair bit of experience before they joined us.

We need to be targeting first team players this summer, those are the kind of signings we need and pretty much in every area of the team, I.E. a couple of forwards, a new central midfielder, maybe two, a wide player to replace Pepe who I assume will be leaving and genuine cover for both full back positions.

Arteta & Edu have a lot of work to do this summer.

Hmmm. Much too early to write off Lokonga, for me. At times he has looked like a really exciting prospect. A couple of disappointing performances in disjointed team set-ups not a fair representation of his ability. A player who is very young for one of the most important positions on the picth - for me not surprising that Xhaka and Elneny used in the latter stages. Tavares more questionable, but he was in fact one of our better players in our last 2 games. He is unquestionably raw and has made high profile mistakes but I feel it would be harsh to write him off totally rather than giving him a chance in the early Europa stages next season. For me a failed punt would be Lucas Perez or even Dani Ceballos - who was signed on loan essesntially as a first team player, unlike Tavares.

More generally our business last Summer was good. It spoke to trying to sign the best new young talent with room for improvement, and that is precisely what it achieved. We can be revisionist by lamenting the drop in form at the end of the season, but our best back 5 - with 3 of them being new signings - was excellent in the 10 or so games when it was available.

[I am invisible]

Tbf, I think a big part of why the two ‘punts’ look like misses is because we’ve had to use them way more than we should have in their first seasons - if Tierney and Partey hadn’t spent half of the season out injured (again!) then I’m sure we would have used them far more sparingly and selectively, and would have done more work with them in the background, free from the spotlight.

Unfortunately the fitness issues of those two players is becoming something we can no longer ignore, and it might mean that we need to think about more oven-ready deputies who can come in for long stints when needed. I think we’ll stick with Sambi because he’s a little more shielded by Xhaka and Elneny, but I can easily see Nuno going. Not really his fault - he just needs more development than we have time for right now. Again, timing and circumstance - if he’d come into a more finished Arsenal side that needed less work then we probably would have had more time to devote to him.

[selassie]

Hmmm. Much too early to write off Lokonga, for me. At times he has looked like a really exciting prospect. A couple of disappointing performances in disjointed team set-ups not a fair representation of his ability. A player who is very young for one of the most important positions on the picth - for me not surprising that Xhaka and Elneny used in the latter stages. Tavares more questionable, but he was in fact one of our better players in our last 2 games. He is unquestionably raw and has made high profile mistakes but I feel it would be harsh to write him off totally rather than giving him a chance in the early Europa stages next season. For me a failed punt would be Lucas Perez or even Dani Ceballos - who was signed on loan essesntially as a first team player, unlike Tavares.

More generally our business last Summer was good. It spoke to trying to sign the best new young talent with room for improvement, and that is precisely what it achieved. We can be revisionist by lamenting the drop in form at the end of the season, but our best back 5 - with 3 of them being new signings - was excellent in the 10 or so games when it was available.

Lokonga obviously has a lot of potential and is still young so I am sitting on the fence with him....however he didn't really add anything to the team this season. The issue with Tavares is due to Tierney being quite injury prone Tavares got a lot of minutes. That isn't a bad thing per say, but his performances on the whole were not up to scratch, he's not good enough for a team with ambition for a top 3/4 finish. He is not only raw, but lacks the basics of what is required. Don't forget Saka broke through as a full back and his performance level was high from start to finish, that's the standard of a top club.

Tavares may well improve, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having him in the team for important games next season.

[IBK]

Lokonga obviously has a lot of potential and is still young so I am sitting on the fence with him....however he didn't really add anything to the team this season. The issue with Tavares is due to Tierney being quite injury prone Tavares got a lot of minutes. That isn't a bad thing per say, but his performances on the whole were not up to scratch, he's not good enough for a team with ambition for a top 3/4 finish. He is not only raw, but lacks the basics of what is required. Don't forget Saka broke through as a full back and his performance level was high from start to finish, that's the standard of a top club.

Tavares may well improve, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having him in the team for important games next season.

Fair enough, but he hasn't been as bad as some seem to think - and I am hopeful that his consistency in defence will improve.

[Marc Overmars]

Tavares has no composure and I’m not surprised we’ve been linked with that Scottish kid who’s playing in Italy. If there’s one thing we know about Arteta is that he isn’t afraid to make bold decisions with players who aren’t doing it for him. Wouldn’t be surprised if he was sent out on loan. For all the talk about our shape etc being better, we still conceded more goals than last year and a lot of that was due to erratic and careless defending.

[Mac76]

yeah Tavares has a long way to go before he should be starting for us again in any game that counts

[IBK]

Tavares has no composure and I’m not surprised we’ve been linked with that Scottish kid who’s playing in Italy. If there’s one thing we know about Arteta is that he isn’t afraid to make bold decisions with players who aren’t doing it for him. Wouldn’t be surprised if he was sent out on loan. For all the talk about our shape etc being better, we still conceded more goals than last year and a lot of that was due to erratic and careless defending.

Yep agreed - and there is no doubt (a) that he is very raw, and (b) that relying on Tavares alone where (frustratingly given his talent) we have a crock as first choice LB is not what we should be doing next season.

Re our defence more generally, I'm not sure your analysis is quite on the money. The reality is that we had our first choice back 5 available only 10 times last season, and when we did we looked secure. Partey's absence also screwed our system and affected our defensive shape. I think Nuno suffered from playing often in a makeshift system. This is not to excuse his mistakes, but more to say that its a shame for him that he was so exposed as I'm certain that wasn't the plan. Ironically, we often looked better going forwards when he played...

[selassie]

Fair enough, but he hasn't been as bad as some seem to think - and I am hopeful that his consistency in defence will improve.

Yeah to be fair he actually looked half decent when he initially played for us, though he was still raw. He just seems to have regressed, maybe confidence? He is still young though so can improve, but he has to be getting the basics right first.

[IBK]

Yeah to be fair he actually looked half decent when he initially played for us, though he was still raw. He just seems to have regressed, maybe confidence? He is still young though so can improve, but he has to be getting the basics right first.

Yep - but strangely he was one of our better players against Spurs and Newcastle too (although admittedly a very low bar). Didn't watch the Everton game...