All or Nothing

[HCZ_Reborn]

So admittedly I was never in favour of this fly on the wall bullshit to begin with, most of the time it’s utterly plastic…..people don’t behave normally when they are being filmed everything is completely artificial. And when people ultimately forget there is a camera you then realise how completely dysfunctional they are.

People shouldn’t wash their dirty linen in public, this was what the confessional and later on counselling therapy was designed for.

80% of the time you will see nothing of any interest, and then like with the Spurs version there might be a flare up of some kind, and everyone in the vicinity will look ill equipped to cope with it. Like I recall Dele Ali and Eric Dier bickering and everyone else (including Mourinho) just looking at their shoes.

Arteta will have been forced to pretend he has a personality and that he’s not in fact deeply uncomfortable around other human beings, and that he’s not an aloof passive aggressive cunt (which of course he is)

Basically it will be Love Island with no women, fewer chaise lounges and hopefully no kissing

Will I watch it? Probably but I’m a massive hypocrite. It will be like watching a Transit van on fire on the hard shoulder of a motorway. As much as your rational self hopes everyone is ok…your morbid curiosity is scanning for smouldering human remains

[mandela8]

Canny wait, tbh.

When is it out??

[HCZ_Reborn]

Canny wait, tbh.

When is it out??

August 1st I think

Perversely as I’ve said I will end up watching it…..even though not used Amazon prime in years

But I just don’t think it’s the kind of circus we should be subjecting ourselves to

It’s the equivalent of the old Jewish guy in the Simpsons with his trousers down singing the old grey mare

[Marc Overmars]

Looking forward to it tbh. I mean it will probably be shite given the season didn’t amount to much in the end, but always interesting to see some of the inner workings behind the scenes.

We were always a very secretive club with Wenger, didn’t even disclose transfer fees. So I don’t actually mind some kind of transparency in an age where nothing can really remain hush hush.

[mandela8]

August 1st I think

Perversely as I’ve said I will end up watching it…..even though not used Amazon prime in years

But I just don’t think it’s the kind of circus we should be subjecting ourselves to

It’s the equivalent of the old Jewish guy in the Simpsons with his trousers down singing the old grey mare

I'm naw fussed about shit like that, man.

I'm just intradested to see some of the inner workings and that kinda stuff. Last night I watched Vieira's signing day. Absolutely pointless stuff but quite intradest to me. 100% get people with zero intradest though, tbh.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm naw fussed about shit like that, man.

I'm just intradested to see some of the inner workings and that kinda stuff. Last night I watched Vieira's signing day. Absolutely pointless stuff but quite intradest to me. 100% get people with zero intradest though, tbh.


A lot of the official Arsenal videos are quite anodyne and rightly so, they are not giving their viewer anything they don’t want them to see. I quite like Tunnelcam for that reason, especially if it’s a game we’ve won against fairly decent opposition

What bothers me about the Amazon thing is whilst as I say 80% of it is plastic, dull but inoffensive. The remaining 20% will ultimately show us in a bad light and have opposition fans creating memes.

It’s fun to watch even if you support the club, but why do it to yourself

[Marc Overmars]

There’s a lot more behind the scenes YouTube content as well now post-Wenger. Just have to move with the times I guess, I’m sure Amazon probably would have funded one of our signings this summer so it’s all just part of the game now I think. We were so far behind the curve commercially 10 years ago.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nothing

[HCZ_Reborn]

There’s a lot more behind the scenes YouTube content as well now post-Wenger. Just have to move with the times I guess, I’m sure Amazon probably would have funded one of our signings this summer so it’s all just part of the game now I think.

Seriously though, you can’t have watched the Spurs one and not thought “fuck me I’m glad that’s not us”

[Letters]

Seriously though, you can’t have watched the Spurs one and not thought “fuck me I’m glad that’s not us”

I didn't watch it and thought that anyway, stuff like this is embarrassing.


It’s the equivalent of the old Jewish guy in the Simpsons with his trousers down singing the old grey mare

We certainly ain't what we used to be...

[HCZ_Reborn]

So todays the day, started watching the first episode

So far, doesn’t tell you a lot apart from Saka boasting to Balogun that he got mobbed by a load of people when he went into Waitrose for a meal deal

I’ll give Arteta credit, he isn’t quite the passive aggressive prick who is cold with the players that I took him for. I think his team talks fall on deaf ears but he does seem genuinely supportive of his players.

Same with Josh Kroenke, the guy is a complete Wally but at the same time he does at least seem to be involved on a day to day basis and has a personal relationship with both the coach and the players.

Those three losses does seem to largely come down to Covid issues and having makeshift line ups where the players don’t seem to know who is responsible for what (which is partly poor tactically on Arteta’s part and partly players not really communicating with each other - Mari and Xhaka exchanging words with each other about how the offside line is meant to hold to deal with Lukaku)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Episode 4 - Arteta really showing his bizarre passive aggressive tendencies in regards to Auba. Telling Mark Gonella that he keeps a book of all these player indiscretions, how it was handled so he has something to refer back to.

So in Arteta’s mind it was punishment for being late to training and being late to training six months earlier. There is no impetus from anyone else to enforce this action other than Arteta, but he gets the team in and says “we have decided” etc as if it was anything other than a unilateral decision.

He really needs to go, even if we get in the players we need….he can’t be trusted he’s severely mentally unstable.

[Globalgunner]

If Arteta cant progress this season after 3 plus years and probably more than £400m spent then he really needs to F-off anyways

[Letters]

Episode 4 - Arteta really showing his bizarre passive aggressive tendencies in regards to Auba. Telling Mark Gonella that he keeps a book of all these player indiscretions, how it was handled so he has something to refer back to.

So in Arteta’s mind it was punishment for being late to training and being late to training six months earlier. There is no impetus from anyone else to enforce this action other than Arteta, but he gets the team in and says “we have decided” etc as if it was anything other than a unilateral decision.

He really needs to go, even if we get in the players we need….he can’t be trusted he’s severely mentally unstable.

So...you're grumbling that the manager is unilaterally in charge of squad discipline. Isn't that part of the role of manager?

[Letters]

If Arteta cant progress this season after 3 plus years and probably more than £400m spent then he really needs to F-off anyways

Agree with this. Top 4 or bust this year.

[HCZ_Reborn]

So...you're grumbling that the manager is unilaterally in charge of squad discipline. Isn't that part of the role of manager?

The issue is not whether he takes on decisions unilaterally is that he does so and pretends it has been decided as part of a consensus. If you’re going to take a decision like that, own it

[Letters]

I think you're reading too much into it. People say "we" when they mean the club.
There are some valid criticisms of Arteta, this feels a bit petty.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think you're reading too much into it. People say "we" when they mean the club.
There are some valid criticisms of Arteta, this feels a bit petty.

No what Arteta did was petty.

[Niall_Quinn]

Agree with this. Top 4 or bust this year.

Are you being serious here or sarcastic?

Hopefully it's the latter but, if not, how would securing the fake achievement that brought the club down in the first place be grounds to retain the manager responsible? The Top 4 Trophy again? No, you can't possibly be serious.

Hasn't this man been hired to mount a proper title challenge, or is this no longer Arsenal FC?

The base criteria for success must surely be, at least, being in the hunt for the title during the last few weeks of the season, avoiding the usual catastrophic collapse that crushes all hope of serious competition, utilising the squad properly so we don't have to hear all the usual excuses about injuries, etc, etc. That sort of stuff that so signifies a string of seasons since the last real challenge.

Why would scraping 4th with the usual margin between us and the eventual champions, followed by an embarrassing and inept showing in the Champions League be considered progress? Because we finished 6th and put in embarrassing performances in the Europa League?

Is it possible to set the bar any lower?

[KSE Comedy Club]

Is it possible to set the bar any lower?

It is.

We could enjoy the excitement of the 'bottom of the table relegation battle' :good: :d

[Letters]

Hasn't this man been hired to mount a proper title challenge, or is this no longer Arsenal FC?
Obviously that's the ultimate aim - well, it should be. But that has to be somewhat tempered by the reality of where we are right now and where we've come from.
Last year the top 2 were in their own little world. We were mixing it with everyone else and better than most but ultimately we finished 24 points off the title.
That feels like one hell of a bridge to gap in one season. If either or both of those sides is close to as good again, I can't see us seriously challenging them and I don't think that should be the criteria


The base criteria for success must surely be, at least, being in the hunt for the title during the last few weeks of the season, avoiding the usual catastrophic collapse that crushes all hope of serious competition, utilising the squad properly so we don't have to hear all the usual excuses about injuries, etc, etc. That sort of stuff that so signifies a string of seasons since the last real challenge.
I'd agree with all of that bar the first for the reason I outlined above.
You can't base your expectations on our best ever seasons, they have to be based on where we are now, and where we've come from in the last few years which is:

2019/20 - 8th 56Pts
2020/21 - 8th 61Pts
2021/22 - 5th 69Pts

There has been a bit of year on year progress and I think we've made good signings, but I don't believe this year a title challenge is realistic. It would be nice, obviously, but it's not the sole criteria I'd judge any Arsenal manager on this season given the last few years.


Why would scraping 4th with the usual margin between us and the eventual champions, followed by an embarrassing and inept showing in the Champions League be considered progress?
It wouldn't.

[fakeyank]

Are you being serious here or sarcastic?

Hopefully it's the latter but, if not, how would securing the fake achievement that brought the club down in the first place be grounds to retain the manager responsible? The Top 4 Trophy again? No, you can't possibly be serious.

Hasn't this man been hired to mount a proper title challenge, or is this no longer Arsenal FC?

The base criteria for success must surely be, at least, being in the hunt for the title during the last few weeks of the season, avoiding the usual catastrophic collapse that crushes all hope of serious competition, utilising the squad properly so we don't have to hear all the usual excuses about injuries, etc, etc. That sort of stuff that so signifies a string of seasons since the last real challenge.

Why would scraping 4th with the usual margin between us and the eventual champions, followed by an embarrassing and inept showing in the Champions League be considered progress? Because we finished 6th and put in embarrassing performances in the Europa League?

Is it possible to set the bar any lower?

Title challenge is unrealistic considering how far off the top 2 we are.. to me, a successful season would be finishing no less than 4th, playing good attractive football, not getting steamrolled against big teams (ex: 5-0 against City last season) and a FA cup or Europa league deep run.

[Letters]

Title challenge is unrealistic considering how far off the top 2 we are.. to me, a successful season would be finishing no less than 4th, playing good attractive football, not getting steamrolled against big teams (ex: 5-0 against City last season) and a FA cup or Europa league deep run.

Holy shit, I agree with FY about something.
And yeah, all that should be possible...assuming no FY visits to The Emirates of course... :threaten:

[Niall_Quinn]

Title challenge is unrealistic considering how far off the top 2 we are.. to me, a successful season would be finishing no less than 4th, playing good attractive football, not getting steamrolled against big teams (ex: 5-0 against City last season) and a FA cup or Europa league deep run.

What, 3 years at a supposedly big club, a free hand, allegedly decent players already in place, and more money than the yanks ever gave Wenger or Dick?

Yeah, I forgot about the attractive (euphemism for competent if you ask me) football. Definitely add that to the list. It's something I've given up hoping for tbh. Certainly Arteta isn't capable of providing it, that much is painfully obvious.

Do you know, I'm having second thoughts about Wenger. Yes, he was fucked beyond all recognition by the time he was booted. But, for all his flaws, he had a lot of respect for the game as it should be played and that actually cost him against the horrible, cynical, cowardly bastards that call themselves coaches these days. Yes, Wenger was a man out of his time, but his time was better and the abject shite that managers like Arteta serve up today. They might beat Wenger in the league table but they'll never beat him in terms of providing what we all used to understand as football. Entertainment. Passion. Tribe. Our players used to fight in the tunnel, not kneel on the pitch and mince around in pink. Everything was blood red. Deadly as sharks we were, and just as vicious. Not this dead, gutted fish flopping around with fireworks exploding behind it and pampered fucks demanding a 10% share in the club just to turn up.

It was sad that Wenger eventually accepted 4th place as a trophy. That was his downfall. But it's criminal for the club and any fans dumb enough to buy into it to repeat that bullshit and then sell it as success.

Anyway, I don't watch it. So ignore me.

[HCZ_Reborn]

What, 3 years at a supposedly big club, a free hand, allegedly decent players already in place, and more money than the yanks ever gave Wenger or Dick?

Yeah, I forgot about the attractive (euphemism for competent if you ask me) football. Definitely add that to the list. It's something I've given up hoping for tbh. Certainly Arteta isn't capable of providing it, that much is painfully obvious.

Do you know, I'm having second thoughts about Wenger. Yes, he was fucked beyond all recognition by the time he was booted. But, for all his flaws, he had a lot of respect for the game as it should be played and that actually cost him against the horrible, cynical, cowardly bastards that call themselves coaches these days. Yes, Wenger was a man out of his time, but his time was better and the abject shite that managers like Arteta serve up today. They might beat Wenger in the league table but they'll never beat him in terms of providing what we all used to understand as football. Entertainment. Passion. Tribe. Our players used to fight in the tunnel, not kneel on the pitch and mince around in pink. Everything was blood red. Deadly as sharks we were, and just as vicious. Not this dead, gutted fish flopping around with fireworks exploding behind it and pampered fucks demanding a 10% share in the club just to turn up.

It was sad that Wenger eventually accepted 4th place as a trophy. That was his downfall. But it's criminal for the club and any fans dumb enough to buy into it to repeat that bullshit and then sell it as success.

Anyway, I don't watch it. So ignore me.


Whilst you do seem to live in the world of what should, or at least what you think should. The rest of us have to live in the world of what is instead of saying “I’m not playing today” and digging through the couch cushions for the bottle of Chivas Regal you think is hidden there.

Progress is a completely relative term. And whether or not we should be challenging for the title given the money Arteta has spent is a topic worthy of debate, the fact is we are where we are. I don’t think Arteta is the guy to take us forward, he has no personal skills, no charisma and the worst thing of all he’s governed by hubris. Tactically he is id say very astute but when you a) are about as likeable as Andy Murray and b) either you are clearly bringing in the wrong players or you have no influence over the transfer process and Edu is bringing in the wrong players which begs the question of why you’d call yourself a manager….this undercuts any tactical understanding.
But the nuts and bolts of it is, to challenge for the title we would have to go berserk in the transfer market…you’d be looking at minimum of 500 million spend to make us competitive.
Whether Arteta should be sacked for not incrementally making a team that is competitive in the time he’s had is an argument I guess, and whilst I think we should have done a lot better….I think it’s important to be realistic. Manchester City and Liverpool are not only the two best sides in England, they are the two best sides in club football currently (arguably with Bayern Munich a close third)
When these two sides are routinely winning well over 90 points, it becomes almost impossible to keep up with them.
Liverpool, whilst their fans are in total delusional mode about how much their club spend on transfers (they seem convinced they’ve done it without financial doping) aren’t quite as severe as City with it and with an ageing midfield they could be vulnerable to falling out of the top two but this would pre suppose Tottenham are in a position to take advantage.
City the only hope you have is that they have an off season once every five years (like they did when Liverpool won in 2020) because otherwise they are untouchable.
I think if we sign a central midfielder and a winger we could finish third, despite Arteta and his Aspergers….to win the league in the next few years we’d have to have a) a player of Salah like quality up front b) a player of van dijk quality at the back and c) City to have a ropey season. If all of these unlikely happenings occur….I still don’t think we could win the title whilst Arteta is coach and that might be another reason to sack him.
But ultimately Top 4 is a more realistic barometer of what to expect from him this season

[fakeyank]

Holy shit, I agree with FY about something.
And yeah, all that should be possible...assuming no FY visits to The Emirates of course... :threaten:

I will be around Ireland/Northern Ireland first week of September aka around our game with Everton. I couldve shortened time in Ireland to be in London for the game but I didnt want to fuck up our chances anymore.




Now, if we are looking good come February/March, then I might just come down to say hello :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Whilst you do seem to live in the world of what should, or at least what you think should. The rest of us have to live in the world of what is instead of saying “I’m not playing today” and digging through the couch cushions for the bottle of Chivas Regal you think is hidden there.

When I read that I rushed off to the couch. Toss up between holding nose and bolting shitty drink or holding nose and reading words of wisdom from self proclaimed realist. I'm sure whatever you said delights you though, so it didn't go to total waste.

[fakeyank]

What, 3 years at a supposedly big club, a free hand, allegedly decent players already in place, and more money than the yanks ever gave Wenger or Dick?

Yeah, I forgot about the attractive (euphemism for competent if you ask me) football. Definitely add that to the list. It's something I've given up hoping for tbh. Certainly Arteta isn't capable of providing it, that much is painfully obvious.

Do you know, I'm having second thoughts about Wenger. Yes, he was fucked beyond all recognition by the time he was booted. But, for all his flaws, he had a lot of respect for the game as it should be played and that actually cost him against the horrible, cynical, cowardly bastards that call themselves coaches these days. Yes, Wenger was a man out of his time, but his time was better and the abject shite that managers like Arteta serve up today. They might beat Wenger in the league table but they'll never beat him in terms of providing what we all used to understand as football. Entertainment. Passion. Tribe. Our players used to fight in the tunnel, not kneel on the pitch and mince around in pink. Everything was blood red. Deadly as sharks we were, and just as vicious. Not this dead, gutted fish flopping around with fireworks exploding behind it and pampered fucks demanding a 10% share in the club just to turn up.

It was sad that Wenger eventually accepted 4th place as a trophy. That was his downfall. But it's criminal for the club and any fans dumb enough to buy into it to repeat that bullshit and then sell it as success.

Anyway, I don't watch it. So ignore me.

I disagree that we play shit football under Arteta. I think for the last 1/2 to 3/4 of last season, we played pretty good football with forward passes rather than sideways BS. So far, this preseason and also the game against CP, we looked to be always pushing from the front and making forward passes.

About Wenger, again, I disagree.. entertainment, passion you say?! Sorry, dont remember any of that under the last decade of Wengers career with us. And whats wrong with kneeling on the pitch or wearing pink? Besides kneeling on the pitch and wearing pink is not up to the managers or players. I quite frankly think that pink kit is fire! If I hadnt purchased the black away kit, I would have definitely bought that one.

[Niall_Quinn]

I disagree that we play shit football under Arteta. I think for the last 1/2 to 3/4 of last season, we played pretty good football with forward passes rather than sideways BS. So far, this preseason and also the game against CP, we looked to be always pushing from the front and making forward passes.

About Wenger, again, I disagree.. entertainment, passion you say?! Sorry, dont remember any of that under the last decade of Wengers career with us. And whats wrong with kneeling on the pitch or wearing pink? Besides kneeling on the pitch and wearing pink is not up to the managers or players. I quite frankly think that pink kit is fire! If I hadnt purchased the black away kit, I would have definitely bought that one.

Maybe everything has transformed since I last endured it? Good, if true. But I'm suspicious, especially at the claim we play forward passes. That seems highly unlikely, like men getting pregnant or "women" with beards and balls winning swim titles. Or actual men wearing pink kits because some woke marketing dick thinks he can appeal to woke dickless fans.

I'm talking about Wenger's core philosophy. His terrible decisions and compromises meant he had to sell out his principles in order to stem the trouncing at the hands of robot units programmed by the likes of Pepbot. He dug his own grave, not denying that. But he was never willingly abusive to the spirit of the game, except maybe in that cup final vs Utd.

It used to be a man's game but now it is something else and something far less engaging. It's okay of people like whatever it is now, it's just I don't. Personal preference and higher standards.

[The Wengerbabies]

I quite frankly think that pink kit is fire! If I hadnt purchased the black away kit, I would have definitely bought that one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaG5SAw1n0c

[HCZ_Reborn]

When I read that I rushed off to the couch. Toss up between holding nose and bolting shitty drink or holding nose and reading words of wisdom from self proclaimed realist. I'm sure whatever you said delights you though, so it didn't go to total waste.

Realism as you know is like success only relative

Well that’s a shared experience the knowledge that what we both have in common is that no one else here apart from us is going to read our essay long posts

[Niall_Quinn]

Realism as you know is like success only relative

Well that’s a shared experience the knowledge that what we both have in common is that no one else here apart from us is going to read our essay long posts

All right, fair enough.

[mandela8]

What, 3 years at a supposedly big club, a free hand, allegedly decent players already in place, and more money than the yanks ever gave Wenger or Dick?

Yeah, I forgot about the attractive (euphemism for competent if you ask me) football. Definitely add that to the list. It's something I've given up hoping for tbh. Certainly Arteta isn't capable of providing it, that much is painfully obvious.

Do you know, I'm having second thoughts about Wenger. Yes, he was fucked beyond all recognition by the time he was booted. But, for all his flaws, he had a lot of respect for the game as it should be played and that actually cost him against the horrible, cynical, cowardly bastards that call themselves coaches these days. Yes, Wenger was a man out of his time, but his time was better and the abject shite that managers like Arteta serve up today. They might beat Wenger in the league table but they'll never beat him in terms of providing what we all used to understand as football. Entertainment. Passion. Tribe. Our players used to fight in the tunnel, not kneel on the pitch and mince around in pink. Everything was blood red. Deadly as sharks we were, and just as vicious. Not this dead, gutted fish flopping around with fireworks exploding behind it and pampered fucks demanding a 10% share in the club just to turn up.

It was sad that Wenger eventually accepted 4th place as a trophy. That was his downfall. But it's criminal for the club and any fans dumb enough to buy into it to repeat that bullshit and then sell it as success.

Anyway, I don't watch it. So ignore me.

Fuck me, man.

What a miserable cunt you are. Fuckin chill, man. You only get one life and you seem to be wasting it being a grumpy old cunt. Smile, ffs.

Anyway, top 4 is beyond any fuckin doubt success. That's a pretty sad reality, but reality is what it is. It's an absolutely mandatory step on getting back to a level where they can close the gap and compete with clubs who are finishing seasons with 90 points then going out and buying the two hottest young strikers in the world for total costs in the hundreds of millions.

Arsenal need CL fitba. Then expectations can be adjusted from there.

[mandela8]

That said, I do think Arteta should've been sacked after last season or even the season before. Last season his own stubbornness cost Arsenal the CL position.

Now, he may ultimately do that this season but that's not vindication, imo. He's still responsible for delaying that progression by at least one year.

He's very lucky to still be in a job.

[Letters]

That said, I do think Arteta should've been sacked after last season or even the season before. Last season his own stubbornness cost Arsenal the CL position.

Now, he may ultimately do that this season but that's not vindication, imo. He's still responsible for delaying that progression by at least one year.

He's very lucky to still be in a job.

I think I'd agree with that. At the start of last season if you'd told me that with 3 games to go we'd have Top 4 in our hands then I'd have taken that. But we fucked it.
Not at WHL, we did so in January when we weakened the squad and Arteta took a gamble that the guys who were left would see it through. They nearly did, but...
Arguably a sackable offence. But...changing manager isn't something to do lightly, it can set you back. There has been clear progress under Arteta, I think it's reasonable to say it's not been as fast as it should.
If that continues this year then all well and good. Top 4 is an important step to the top. It shouldn't be, the whole concept of a "Top 4" is nonsense, but with the rise of the CL it's the reality we are now living in.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fuck me, man.

What a miserable cunt you are. Fuckin chill, man. You only get one life and you seem to be wasting it being a grumpy old cunt. Smile, ffs.

Anyway, top 4 is beyond any fuckin doubt success. That's a pretty sad reality, but reality is what it is. It's an absolutely mandatory step on getting back to a level where they can close the gap and compete with clubs who are finishing seasons with 90 points then going out and buying the two hottest young strikers in the world for total costs in the hundreds of millions.

Arsenal need CL fitba. Then expectations can be adjusted from there.

When I've tasted the real thing I don't like being served shit and told it's the new and improved version. Set a lower standard and you'll likely achieve it. Call that achievement a success and we can all congratulate each other. Until we face Bayern I suppose. Then we go round again.

[mandela8]

When I've tasted the real thing I don't like being served shit and told it's the new and improved version. Set a lower standard and you'll likely achieve it. Call that achievement a success and we can all congratulate each other. Until we face Bayern I suppose. Then we go round again.

But you're long enough in the tooth to know fitba is pretty cyclica, matel. As arsenal fans we're pretty lucky to cycle somewhere near the top end. You can't always feast at the very top table. It's just not how it works...outside of the financially doped clubs now, I guess.

[Letters]

When I've tasted the real thing I don't like being served shit and told it's the new and improved version. Set a lower standard and you'll likely achieve it. Call that achievement a success and we can all congratulate each other. Until we face Bayern I suppose. Then we go round again.
Where's your bar though? I mean, I was privileged to have a season ticket during the Wenger glory years. It was mostly amazing.
At the time I always knew in the back of my mind "It won't always be like this". There's no way any team can sustain that level forever, and of course the money men muscling in have completely changed the landscape.
A lot of the last 15 years have been pretty mediocre, and football in general has gone to shit. But right now I see us moving in the right direction. The only sensible thing to measure us against is last season.
If you compare every season to that Wenger side 2002-4 then prepare for a lifetime of disappointment, it will rarely if ever get that good again.

[Niall_Quinn]

But you're long enough in the tooth to know fitba is pretty cyclica, matel. As arsenal fans we're pretty lucky to cycle somewhere near the top end. You can't always feast at the very top table. It's just not how it works...outside of the financially doped clubs now, I guess.

Of course. Sometimes down but always striving to be up. More Leicester and less Barcelona. This club has turned into a procession of mercenaries who arrive with great fanfare, give us a season if we're lucky and then relax into mediocrity. That's not solely the fault of the club as the balance has shifted so hopelessly to players who, in the main, aren't fit to lace the boots of the genuine articles that went before. Money, money, money - then we can maybe talk football of we can be bothered. We're a long way from the local lads who always dreamed of wearing the shirt for the privilege alone. Now we have tossers who need a new contract 15 minutes after signing the last one because some doped up outfit is in with a big money offer. And how does it usually work out for the fools who take the cash? How much for the likes of Song or Koscielny? How did that work out for them?

I'd rather be 12th and watch a bunch of academy kids growing up at the club together than 4th as a gateway to guaranteed humiliation in a competition we have no right being in (along with most of the other participants). What's the difference between stating we can't realistically compete for the domestic title but then saying 4th is essential for CL footie, a competition we stand no chance in? It can only be about the cash right? Apart from maybe a few away nights for the fans if they can't stump the exorbitant fees. And what would we use the cash for? Another round or mercs and their wage demands?

I'd like to see us go back to the basics with a team that actually wants to be here. I don't know if that's even possible in the modern game. Can you find 11 good kids who are in it for the football rather than the cash? Maybe it's a pipe dream, but if that's all it is then you know why I'm such a miserable cunt. Because I miss the game I used to live for.

[mandela8]

Of course. Sometimes down but always striving to be up. More Leicester and less Barcelona. This club has turned into a procession of mercenaries who arrive with great fanfare, give us a season if we're lucky and then relax into mediocrity. That's not solely the fault of the club as the balance has shifted so hopelessly to players who, in the main, aren't fit to lace the boots of the genuine articles that went before. Money, money, money - then we can maybe talk football of we can be bothered. We're a long way from the local lads who always dreamed of wearing the shirt for the privilege alone. Now we have tossers who need a new contract 15 minutes after signing the last one because some doped up outfit is in with a big money offer. And how does it usually work out for the fools who take the cash? How much for the likes of Song or Koscielny? How did that work out for them?

I'd rather be 12th and watch a bunch of academy kids growing up at the club together than 4th as a gateway to guaranteed humiliation in a competition we have no right being in (along with most of the other participants). What's the difference between stating we can't realistically compete for the domestic title but then saying 4th is essential for CL footie, a competition we stand no chance in? It can only be about the cash right? Apart from maybe a few away nights for the fans if they can't stump the exorbitant fees. And what would we use the cash for? Another round or mercs and their wage demands?

I'd like to see us go back to the basics with a team that actually wants to be here. I don't know if that's even possible in the modern game. Can you find 11 good kids who are in it for the football rather than the cash? Maybe it's a pipe dream, but if that's all it is then you know why I'm such a miserable cunt. Because I miss the game I used to live for.

I think that's pretty fair, for the most part. For most of the last 10 or so years with players like Ozil, Auba, William, Luiz, etc etc never really feeling like 'Arsenal' players and the team kinda losing that somewhat nebulous but pretty real arsenal identity. But, for all Arteta's faults he's definitely trying to get back to that with a mixture of academy players and younger players who can grow with the club. For the first time in a long time it's, at the very least, looking like the club are moving back towards a more recognizable Arsenal.

[Letters]

Because I miss the game I used to live for.
My suggestion, start watching grass roots football. I go see the mighty Enfield Town here and there. Yes of course it's a bit crap but at least it's real - and they're a fan owned club, the original Enfield "did an MK Dons" and Enfield Town are the AFC Wimbledon of the area. I find it quite good fun, it's more like going to football was when I was young. The only thing missing - and this is quite an important thing - is I don't care about them like I used to care about Arsenal. That's the thing you can't force. And, with Arsenal, it's the thing I can't completely detach myself from although I certainly am nowhere near as bothered as I used to be.

[mandela8]

Another thing about All Or Nothing is it's already showed my biggest annoyance with the team maybe isn't coming from Arteta. This utterly fuckin pointless sideway and backwards passing that sees the defenders with far more touches than anyone else in the team. It's infuriatingly boring and pathetic. But Arteta is quite clearly telling them to be more progressive with the ball. In one of the earlier episodes Saka came in furious about the lack of forwarding passing too, which was great to see.

It does pose the question though, if Arteta is telling them to be more progressive and they're clearly fuckin not then that's a different problem.

Every time Ben White gets the ball and puts his foot on top of it to look around, bringing the game to complete halt, I want to put my hand in the tele and rip his poofy fuckin earing oot his fuckin ear.

[Niall_Quinn]

Where's your bar though? I mean, I was privileged to have a season ticket during the Wenger glory years. It was mostly amazing.
At the time I always knew in the back of my mind "It won't always be like this". There's no way any team can sustain that level forever, and of course the money men muscling in have completely changed the landscape.
A lot of the last 15 years have been pretty mediocre, and football in general has gone to shit. But right now I see us moving in the right direction. The only sensible thing to measure us against is last season.
If you compare every season to that Wenger side 2002-4 then prepare for a lifetime of disappointment, it will rarely if ever get that good again.

Doubt anyone believes we can ever emulate the Wenger years at their peak (although there were plenty of recurring flaws even back then, especially in terms of European performances). But no, Bergkamp, Vieira, Henry and Freddie is not the minimum requirement. We can set our sights more realistically than that. My problem is the fans' buy in to the bullshit that Wenger pushed as cover for his failing ability to compete as the game changed around him. Winners have a winning attitude, they don't settle for second best let alone fourth best even when the odds are against them. Losers make excuses. Maybe the odds of us toppling City and Liverpool are as low as when Leicester actually did it. But that's the aim. If 3rd or 4th comes as a consequence then so be it, a failure for sure but with the consolation of cash from the CL. Make it any more than that and you can kiss goodbye to the levels of commitment needed to drive that one final inch when it really matters. But we know this, even as recently as last season. When the chips are down you can be sure we'll fuck it up - just as I said in the thread last year when most were saving up for the CL special edition kit. It's not "I told you so", it's I told you so the last time, and the time before that, and again the time before that. Because it's not difficult to spot the pattern.

I bet if you asked any top sportsman what the most important element to their success is they'd answer "attitude". I don't even see gratitude with the bunch we have on the pitch right now, let alone the mentality that's going to stop them collapsing again this season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Another thing about All Or Nothing is it's already showed my biggest annoyance with the team maybe isn't coming from Arteta. This utterly fuckin pointless sideway and backwards passing that sees the defenders with far more touches than anyone else in the team. It's infuriatingly boring and pathetic. But Arteta is quite clearly telling them to be more progressive with the ball. In one of the earlier episodes Saka came in furious about the lack of forwarding passing too, which was great to see.

It does pose the question though, if Arteta is telling them to be more progressive and they're clearly fuckin not then that's a different problem.

Every time Ben White gets the ball and puts his foot on top of it to look around, bringing the game to complete halt, I want to put my hand in the tele and rip his poofy fuckin earing oot his fuckin ear.

Arteta quite clearly is the problem both his quixotic transfers and his quixotic team talks

Comparing a game against Liverpool to finger banging some bronzed Argentine whore in a night club

What the fuck are you meant to make of that.

In regards to forward passing, players pass sideways or backwards out of a sense of safety and because they don’t trust their team mates.

Having Xhaka in central midfield is a complete negation of the intent of controlling the game

[Mac76]

Comparing a game against Liverpool to finger banging some bronzed Argentine whore in a night club



:blink:

[HCZ_Reborn]

:blink:

Sigh….are you offended?

This place really isn’t the same anymore

[mandela8]

Arteta quite clearly is the problem both his quixotic transfers and his quixotic team talks

Comparing a game against Liverpool to finger banging some bronzed Argentine whore in a night club

What the fuck are you meant to make of that.

In regards to forward passing, players pass sideways or backwards out of a sense of safety and because they don’t trust their team mates.

Having Xhaka in central midfield is a complete negation of the intent of controlling the game

You kick a football like a toddler, don't you?

[HCZ_Reborn]

You kick a football like a toddler, don't you?

Don’t be stupid

A toddler couldn’t kick a ball over as many fences as I have

[mandela8]

Don’t be stupid

A toddler couldn’t kick a ball over as many fences as I have

Always painfully obvious when someone who has never/can't play football posts about it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Always painfully obvious when someone who has never/can't play football posts about it.

Explains your invectives about Saka tbh

Well that and you’re a cunt

[Globalgunner]

Id take us not being absolute pussies when playing away at any of the top 5. Apart from Chelsea we were shit against Pool City and United. The one thing this team has lacked sorely since 2006is bottle. nerve under pressure and fortitude when faced with adversity. We bottled 4th last season with 3 calamity games at the end of the season/ I hate to bring the argument back again to Xhaka as I always do. But there is NO way you can build a formidable team with that lump at the core of your team. His lack of athleticism and ball control makes the team nervous and fragile. If he plays every game that he is available, as Im afraid he will, we will again come up short. Arteta cant see Xhaka`s shortcomings. Its a fatal flaw IMO.

We need to be able to take points against the top 4 , home or away. We also need to be able to come back from adversity. Go a goal down and usually we are done. I honestly cant see Arteta as the manager to change that mindset. He is absolutely limited in his abilities both tactically and tactilely in handling players.

I want to see a better team that last season, unafraid and battle ready. Im glad Saliba is here, hope he stays.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sigh….are you offended?

This place really isn’t the same anymore

Where's the real mac, btw? Place isn't the same without him. I haven't had a good arse kicking in months.

[mandela8]

Id take us not being absolute pussies when playing away at any of the top 5. Apart from Chelsea we were shit against Pool City and United. The one thing this team has lacked sorely since 2006is bottle. nerve under pressure and fortitude when faced with adversity. We bottled 4th last season with 3 calamity games at the end of the season/ I hate to bring the argument back again to Xhaka as I always do. But there is NO way you can build a formidable team with that lump at the core of your team. His lack of athleticism and ball control makes the team nervous and fragile. If he plays every game that he is available, as Im afraid he will, we will again come up short. Arteta cant see Xhaka`s shortcomings. Its a fatal flaw IMO.

We need to be able to take points against the top 4 , home or away. We also need to be able to come back from adversity. Go a goal down and usually we are done. I honestly cant see Arteta as the manager to change that mindset. He is absolutely limited in his abilities both tactically and tactilely in handling players.

I want to see a better team that last season, unafraid and battle ready. Im glad Saliba is here, hope he stays.

Aye, good shout.

This mentality that playing Liverpool, City, Chelsea et al are HUGE challenges needs to change, man. It's embarrassing.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s getting to a point where it’s actually almost unbelievable what a cunt Granit Xhaka is

Shouting at his team mates at half time when we are 2-0 down to Palace about the balls they aren’t winning

We used to have people put away in asylums when they were that deluded

[Marc Overmars]

Lacashite throwing a hissy in training. Got shoved off the ball by some kid and proceeded to hack him down. Then had the nerve to grab Cedric by the throat when confronted about it.

Fucking loser, it was a miracle we even had a chance of 4th with him up front for most of the season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Lacashite throwing a hissy in training. Got shoved off the ball by some kid and proceeded to hack him down. Then had the nerve to grab Cedric by the throat when confronted about it.

Fucking loser, it was a miracle we even had a chance of 4th with him up front for most of the season.

Ah I didn’t get that far in, I’d say you’ve spoilt it for me but in reality you’ve actually given me something definite to look forward to

[HCZ_Reborn]

Kieran Tierney worries me, I think he actually enjoys being injured. Don’t get me wrong still don’t think we should have bought in Zinchenko but I think given we did…we should have sold off Tierney…attitude is all wrong

And Arteta what a cunt….”I’ve got too many emotions guys to address you today” how about regret for playing Xhaka at left back and Odegaard in central midfield you fucking idiot ??

Utterly convinced Arteta has to go. The guy isn’t well

[HCZ_Reborn]

Lacashite throwing a hissy in training. Got shoved off the ball by some kid and proceeded to hack him down. Then had the nerve to grab Cedric by the throat when confronted about it.

Fucking loser, it was a miracle we even had a chance of 4th with him up front for most of the season.

I’ve actually seen that now, what the fuck was that….unbelievable behaviour

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sounds pedantic but one thing I’ve noticed having watched all of that All or Nothing series is the lack of one to one interactions Arteta has with his players and even in training when he does it seems forced and awkward.
As I’ve said I do think the players like and respect him, but there’s no personal relationship there because it feels like there’s a barrier which is very much exemplified with his stand offish treatment of Aubameyang.
Tony Adams said of Wenger that they would often go for coffee because Wenger was interested in knowing the person as much as the player.
I couldn’t see Arteta doing that because I don’t think he’s a people person. Not that he doesn’t like people but I think he’s naturally an introvert to the point where I’d say he’s actually shy.
I don’t know maybe it’s a sign of how things have changed and that personal interactions with players are delegated to other members of staff but you can see Edu has a personal relationship with some of the players especially the Brazillian ones.
Maybe that’s not a problem, maybe again I can only look at it from a sense that the documentary isn’t showing me the full picture but it does seem odd that a documentary that seems almost exclusively focused on Arteta doesn’t show any personal relationship he has with players individually.

[The Dismantler]

This documentary has changed my views on arteta, what a great manager he is..

I think he is the man to lead this team to silverware this season

[HCZ_Reborn]

This documentary has changed my views on arteta, what a great manager he is..

I think he is the man to lead this team to silverware this season

Your location tell its own story

[LDG]

Your location tell its own story

As does your face

[The Dismantler]

As does your face


:good:

[The Dismantler]

who is this HCZ clown??

I have been a member of this forum back in the day when we were at BBC 606 forums, which were closed and we moved to the invisionfree website, and moved to here back in 2011...

but i dont remeber this clown... all al i see from him (or her) is just wind-up messages and nothing else...

[HCZ_Reborn]

As does your face

People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

[HCZ_Reborn]

who is this HCZ clown??

I have been a member of this forum back in the day when we were at BBC 606 forums, which were closed and we moved to the invisionfree website, and moved to here back in 2011...

but i dont remeber this clown... all al i see from him (or her) is just wind-up messages and nothing else...





Who the fuck are you? No one


Oh you’ve been around since the 606 days like posting shit on forums for up to twenty years makes you a veteran

[Letters]

Honestly, you two…

:handbags:

[Marc Overmars]

Finished the series.

Fun to get a little insight into the club but given how things ended last season it didn’t make for a particularly great watch, which was expected. As cringe worthy as it was at times, I think it’s probably helped Arteta and how he’s perceived for what it’s worth.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Finished the series.

Fun to get a little insight into the club but given how things ended last season it didn’t make for a particularly great watch, which was expected. As cringe worthy as it was at times, I think it’s probably helped Arteta and how he’s perceived for what it’s worth.

The whole thing was the Arteta show, and whilst I don’t discount pre existing bias driving my thinking I wasn’t especially satisfied with what I saw

The Brighton game and his reaction to that was a red flag to me, I don’t get the point getting angry with the players when he put that team out to fail…what did he expect to happen when he plays Xhaka at left back and plays Odegaard in central midfield…I was at that game. The players did not have the trust in the players around them to pass the ball forward. On at least three occasions I saw Ben White trying to carry the ball forward himself and ultimately playing it back to Gabriel because he didn’t think those in front of him could be trusted not to give the ball away and put them under pressure

He screams and shouts about the players not winning tackles in games, maybe have a look at the players you’ve chosen and ask yourself whether they can even do that consistently. It’s like me shouting at employees because they don’t know origami

Just feels like Hubris

I love how many idiots who consider themselves experts on twitter accusing those not convinced by Arteta of having an agenda, for fuck sake! Yeah because I literally live for waiting for the other shoe to drop so I can say I told you so….because that’s the extent of my support for the club.
No…I want the best for the club and I have high standards, I don’t expect everything right away but I think when people ignore glaring warning signals because they want to convince themselves everything is fine because they’ve bought into “the process” it’s a form of cult mentality.
There is nothing I’ve seen so far that convinces me we are going to avoid the same problems we had last season, if we show we can get a result despite going behind first, if we can show we can mix it up despite a team putting the heavy press on us then I’ll put my hand up and Happily admit I was wrong.
But I’m sorry to say I don’t see it, against Palace we benefited playing a team that was behind in its preparation due to Covid, and we played one team in disarray and one team that will be going back to the championship next season

I actually think Fulham next weekend will be tougher than any side we’ve played so far, look at the job they did on Liverpool and look how they rode the storm against Brentford and came out winners. That will really be a good three points for us

[KSE Comedy Club]

The whole thing was the Arteta show, and whilst I don’t discount pre existing bias driving my thinking I wasn’t especially satisfied with what I saw

The Brighton game and his reaction to that was a red flag to me, I don’t get the point getting angry with the players when he put that team out to fail…what did he expect to happen when he plays Xhaka at left back and plays Odegaard in central midfield…I was at that game. The players did not have the trust in the players around them to pass the ball forward. On at least three occasions I saw Ben White trying to carry the ball forward himself and ultimately playing it back to Gabriel because he didn’t think those in front of him could be trusted not to give the ball away and put them under pressure

He screams and shouts about the players not winning tackles in games, maybe have a look at the players you’ve chosen and ask yourself whether they can even do that consistently. It’s like me shouting at employees because they don’t know origami

Just feels like Hubris

I love how many idiots who consider themselves experts on twitter accusing those not convinced by Arteta of having an agenda, for fuck sake! Yeah because I literally live for waiting for the other shoe to drop so I can say I told you so….because that’s the extent of my support for the club.
No…I want the best for the club and I have high standards, I don’t expect everything right away but I think when people ignore glaring warning signals because they want to convince themselves everything is fine because they’ve bought into “the process” it’s a form of cult mentality.
There is nothing I’ve seen so far that convinces me we are going to avoid the same problems we had last season, if we show we can get a result despite going behind first, if we can show we can mix it up despite a team putting the heavy press on us then I’ll put my hand up and Happily admit I was wrong.
But I’m sorry to say I don’t see it, against Palace we benefited playing a team that was behind in its preparation due to Covid, and we played one team in disarray and one team that will be going back to the championship next season

I actually think Fulham next weekend will be tougher than any side we’ve played so far, look at the job they did on Liverpool and look how they rode the storm against Brentford and came out winners. That will really be a good three points for us

There's the problem ;)

[HCZ_Reborn]

There's the problem ;)

Oh true but Twitter like it or not is one of the easiest and most effective mass communication systems currently

I think a lot of it comes down to people wanting to believe that we are headed for the promised land

I take nothing on faith and my experience is with this club that we’ve seen far too many false dawns

But the one thing about football that doesn’t change is that the most successful teams control the ball in the middle of the park, and I’ve said we haven’t done that for almost a decade. We can do it perhaps against championship teams like Bournemouth but when it comes to teams that don’t give you room to think or breathe and will punish any hesitancy there’s nothing I’ve seen that states that we’ve addressed this.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Oh true but Twitter like it or not is one of the easiest and most effective mass communication systems currently

I think a lot of it comes down to people wanting to believe that we are headed for the promised land

I take nothing on faith and my experience is with this club that we’ve seen far too many false dawns

But the one thing about football that doesn’t change is that the most successful teams control the ball in the middle of the park, and I’ve said we haven’t done that for almost a decade. We can do it perhaps against championship teams like Bournemouth but when it comes to teams that don’t give you room to think or breathe and will punish any hesitancy there’s nothing I’ve seen that states that we’ve addressed this.

I came off it though as there were so many bellends my ears were always ringing!

Yeh, agree with that. We have been crying out for a solid CM for more time than I can remember.
I hate to revert back to the old saying, but - we never replaced Vieira.....

[Letters]

I came off it though as there were so many bellends my ears were always ringing!
And you came here? :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

The whole thing was the Arteta show, and whilst I don’t discount pre existing bias driving my thinking I wasn’t especially satisfied with what I saw

The Brighton game and his reaction to that was a red flag to me, I don’t get the point getting angry with the players when he put that team out to fail…what did he expect to happen when he plays Xhaka at left back and plays Odegaard in central midfield…I was at that game. The players did not have the trust in the players around them to pass the ball forward. On at least three occasions I saw Ben White trying to carry the ball forward himself and ultimately playing it back to Gabriel because he didn’t think those in front of him could be trusted not to give the ball away and put them under pressure

He screams and shouts about the players not winning tackles in games, maybe have a look at the players you’ve chosen and ask yourself whether they can even do that consistently. It’s like me shouting at employees because they don’t know origami

Just feels like Hubris

I love how many idiots who consider themselves experts on twitter accusing those not convinced by Arteta of having an agenda, for fuck sake! Yeah because I literally live for waiting for the other shoe to drop so I can say I told you so….because that’s the extent of my support for the club.
No…I want the best for the club and I have high standards, I don’t expect everything right away but I think when people ignore glaring warning signals because they want to convince themselves everything is fine because they’ve bought into “the process” it’s a form of cult mentality.
There is nothing I’ve seen so far that convinces me we are going to avoid the same problems we had last season, if we show we can get a result despite going behind first, if we can show we can mix it up despite a team putting the heavy press on us then I’ll put my hand up and Happily admit I was wrong.
But I’m sorry to say I don’t see it, against Palace we benefited playing a team that was behind in its preparation due to Covid, and we played one team in disarray and one team that will be going back to the championship next season

I actually think Fulham next weekend will be tougher than any side we’ve played so far, look at the job they did on Liverpool and look how they rode the storm against Brentford and came out winners. That will really be a good three points for us

Oh I agree, I’m not convinced we’re going to finish 4th this year and eventually climb even higher. Arteta and this team have everything to prove and even though there’s been a clear moving of the needle, I think the majority of teams in the league will still fancy getting a result against Arsenal if they apply themselves correctly. Failing to gain points after going behind was a huge bugbear of mine last year and that’s something that must change this season for me to believe we’re really becoming a different animal.

Personally I’m just happy to be riding the wave of positivity for once and looking forward to each game as it comes. We’ve had a kind start and any points dropped from this opening cluster of fixtures should be seen as a disappointment.

Stopped reading Twitter a long time ago, too many people with agendas who are only interested in being right and saying I told you so.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And you came here? :lol:

In fairness at least people here don’t take themselves seriously

If I called people Cunts on Twitter, it would start a firestorm

[HCZ_Reborn]

Oh I agree, I’m not convinced we’re going to finish 4th this year and eventually climb even higher. Arteta and this team have everything to prove and even though there’s been a clear moving of the needle, I think the majority of teams in the league will still fancy getting a result against Arsenal if they apply themselves correctly. Failing to gain points after going behind was a huge bugbear of mine last year and that’s something that must change this season for me to believe we’re really becoming a different animal.

Personally I’m just happy to be riding the wave of positivity for once and looking forward to each game as it comes. We’ve had a kind start and any points dropped from this opening cluster of fixtures should be seen as a disappointment.

Stopped reading Twitter a long time ago, too many people with agendas who are only interested in being right and saying I told you so.


My feeling is I would probably favour us to get 4th currently because I look at Chelsea and see nothing good going on there

But if we do it will be papering over a lot of cracks. I think we haven’t got a bad squad by any stretch but I don’t think Arteta knows how to rotate and I fear he will end up doing the same thing as last season and running players into the ground.

Take Partey for instance should have come off the moment we went 3-0 up and had the benefit of not overusing him and giving someone like Sambi Lokonga minutes

Substitutions seem to be a bit of an afterthought

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s probably the right thing to enjoy it whilst it lasts….it’s really a lesson too many of us need to apply to life in general. I just don’t think I’m built that way, I’m a glass half empty guy.

[KSE Comedy Club]

And you came here? :lol:

:haha:

[IBK]

Oh I agree, I’m not convinced we’re going to finish 4th this year and eventually climb even higher. Arteta and this team have everything to prove and even though there’s been a clear moving of the needle, I think the majority of teams in the league will still fancy getting a result against Arsenal if they apply themselves correctly. Failing to gain points after going behind was a huge bugbear of mine last year and that’s something that must change this season for me to believe we’re really becoming a different animal.

Personally I’m just happy to be riding the wave of positivity for once and looking forward to each game as it comes. We’ve had a kind start and any points dropped from this opening cluster of fixtures should be seen as a disappointment.

Stopped reading Twitter a long time ago, too many people with agendas who are only interested in being right and saying I told you so.

Bit surprised by this as you're a sensible poster. Agreed that we can't take anything for granted, and falling at the final hurdle was disappointing last season, but surely there has been cause for optimisim this season?

If we look at the tire fires that are Manure and even Chelsea ATM, it does seem to me that Arteta has been successful in addressing the huge cultural problem that existed when AW left the club, and although I'm only half way through Arteta comes accros well for me on All or Nothing, as does Josh Kroenke - and the club seems pretty stable and a happy ship. The players clearly believe in him, so why can't we?

[mandela8]

Bit surprised by this as you're a sensible poster. Agreed that we can't take anything for granted, and falling at the final hurdle was disappointing last season, but surely there has been cause for optimisim this season?

If we look at the tire fires that are Manure and even Chelsea ATM, it does seem to me that Arteta has been successful in addressing the huge cultural problem that existed when AW left the club, and although I'm only half way through Arteta comes accros well for me on All or Nothing, as does Josh Kroenke - and the club seems pretty stable and a happy ship. The players clearly believe in him, so why can't we?

Aye, I think Arteta and Kroenke have came.out of this better than they went in, for sure. Certainly in my opinion, which is probably all that matters here, tbh.

On the other hand, I think the execs, Vinai and Dick whatever, and tona lesser extent Edu, came off as a wee bit amateurish to me.

[IBK]

Aye, I think Arteta and Kroenke have came.out of this better than they went in, for sure. Certainly in my opinion, which is probably all that matters here, tbh.

On the other hand, I think the execs, Vinai and Dick whatever, and tona lesser extent Edu, came off as a wee bit amateurish to me.

Yeah - Vinai did for sure, IMO.

[Letters]

Started watching this. Actually pretty good.
Nice to get a peep behind the curtain. Josh Kronke impresses me more than I expected and there does seem to be a long term strategy. Obviously it’s easy to be upbeat after our start this year, but am feeling more optimistic about things.

[fakeyank]

Started watching this. Actually pretty good.
Nice to get a peep behind the curtain. Josh Kronke impresses me more than I expected and there does seem to be a long term strategy. Obviously it’s easy to be upbeat after our start this year, but am feeling more optimistic about things.

USA! USA! USA!

[Letters]

:lol:

[Ralpheroo72]

I actually like this team having watched this. I have more respect for Xhaka than I do for Auba, Auba to me looked as if it was all one big joke.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Auba is a cunt. He left us for about a year before he left.

[Globalgunner]

He shouldn't have been given that last contract. People here were tearing their hair out back then, "If he leaves, we are dead". So he stayed and he left all at the same time.

Bad business, but then thats our trademark nowadays. Get rid of Ozil, replace him immediately with Ozil.

[Letters]

Auba is a cunt. He left us for about a year before he left.

I saw his car in the first episode and...yeah, pretty much.

[Letters]

He shouldn't have been given that last contract. People here were tearing their hair out back then, "If he leaves, we are dead". So he stayed and he left all at the same time.

Bad business, but then thats our trademark nowadays. Get rid of Ozil, replace him immediately with Ozil.

Our contract management has been bloody awful. But it has achieved something, getting rid of players who aren't buying in to "the plan".
We've got a good young squad now, need to push on this year. Am cautiously optimistic, although it's easy to think that having won the first 3 games.

[GP]

I saw his car in the first episode and...yeah, pretty much.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10768751/aubameyang-wears-louis-vuitton/

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10768751/aubameyang-wears-louis-vuitton/

I’m not sure what this is meant to prove, that because he lacks any taste that it’s ok for Arteta to treat him like shit

[Xhaka Can’t]

Treating him like shit was too good for that cunt.

You can say what you like about the manager, but I’m at a loss to think how anyone could’ve dealt with the clusterfuck he inherited.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Treating him like shit was too good for that cunt.

You can say what you like about the manager, but I’m at a loss to think how anyone could’ve dealt with the clusterfuck he inherited.

Maybe that says something about your own lacking interpersonal skills

[Letters]

I love how pissed off Ramsdale was after we conceded against Villa to cost him his clean sheet :d

[Xhaka Can’t]

Maybe that says something about your own lacking interpersonal skills

That makes no sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[I am invisible]

You can say what you like about the manager, but I’m at a loss to think how anyone could’ve dealt with the clusterfuck he inherited.
Yeah, you forget just how many fires he had to put out when he first inherited the side - there’s probably a lot of individual cases there that might have been turned around with a bit of tlc, but when you have a squad full of those cases to deal with, who all need fixing at once, whilst you’re trying to turn the tanker, you just don’t have time for it. In insurance terms it was basically a write-off: more time consuming and costly to fix than simply buying a new one.

It’s a shame because I think if someone like Guendouzi had walked into this current Arsenal side as a 19yo then we could have saved him, but as it was he walked into a rudderless shit-show, got instantly recruited by the Özil gang, and that became his blueprint for how a top professional behaves (this is just a suspicion, but I wouldn’t mind betting that part of the reason we kept pushing Saliba out on loans was because we saw the same warning signs with him and wanted to get him as far away from that group and this club as we could until the culture had been completely reset).

Like yourself I can’t really think how anyone could have dealt with things differently - maybe there was a better way somewhere, but personally I’m just glad it has been dealt with. When you look at what’s going on at other clubs, that’s not a given.

[HCZ_Reborn]

That makes no sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And therein lies the problem

Arteta seems to like players with no character who won’t challenge him. Ramsdale is quite outspoken so it will be interesting to see how long he lasts, but a lot of the players are timid and quiet.

Being a coach/manager requires you to be able to deal with a lot of different personalities and egos. If you can’t do that then you won’t make it in the job

[Xhaka Can’t]

And therein lies the problem

Arteta seems to like players with no character who won’t challenge him. Ramsdale is quite outspoken so it will be interesting to see how long he lasts, but a lot of the players are timid and quiet.

Being a coach/manager requires you to be able to deal with a lot of different personalities and egos. If you can’t do that then you won’t make it in the job

Consider the type of players that has left the Club. They all had the same faults - faults many fans have been crying out about for years.

The Club is nowhere near where it needs to be yet, but the broken culture is clearly undergoing major surgery. Arteta is the guy performing that surgery, whether he is the guy to to complete the rehabilitation is up for debate.

We needed rid of the players and ridiculous contracts we’ve offloaded. Aside from not delivering, they made the team completely unlikeable.

I can get behind players giving their all and not succeeding, but not for a minute can I stomach the type of mentality displayed by the likes of Ozil and Auba.

[Ralpheroo72]

Maybe that says something about your own lacking interpersonal skills

Huh?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Consider the type of players that has left the Club. They all had the same faults - faults many fans have been crying out about for years.

The Club is nowhere near where it needs to be yet, but the broken culture is clearly undergoing major surgery. Arteta is the guy performing that surgery, whether he is the guy to to complete the rehabilitation is up for debate.

We needed rid of the players and ridiculous contracts we’ve offloaded. Aside from not delivering, they made the team completely unlikeable.

I can get behind players giving their all and not succeeding, but not for a minute can I stomach the type of mentality displayed by the likes of Ozil and Auba.

I never mentioned Ozil

But it’s interesting neither Wenger or Emery experienced issues with Auba’s attitude

Then there’s Torreira, Pepe and Guendouzi

If you think Auba is the last player Arteta will fall out with and freeze out I think you’re delusional

[Globalgunner]

I never mentioned Ozil

But it’s interesting neither Wenger or Emery experienced issues with Auba’s attitude

Then there’s Torreira, Pepe and Guendouzi

If you think Auba is the last player Arteta will fall out with and freeze out I think you’re delusional

Players change. Both Ozil and Auba dropped off a cliff once they signed those mega contracts. No more incentive to put in a shift. I am all for performance based contracts. 50% of salaries should be based on team/individual performance, even if a 3rd party needs to be involved to adjudicate the merits of each individual player. If the team is crap, so should your pay be

[Xhaka Can’t]

I never mentioned Ozil

But it’s interesting neither Wenger or Emery experienced issues with Auba’s attitude

Then there’s Torreira, Pepe and Guendouzi

If you think Auba is the last player Arteta will fall out with and freeze out I think you’re delusional

You seem like a huge fan reading things people didn’t say, and then going on a big run.

It must be noisy inside that pretty little head of yours.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Players change. Both Ozil and Auba dropped off a cliff once they signed those mega contracts. No more incentive to put in a shift. I am all for performance based contracts. 50% of salaries should be based on team/individual performance, even if a 3rd party needs to be involved to adjudicate the merits of each individual player. If the team is crap, so should your pay be

Petro teams will never buy into this discipline. But I like your idea.

[Letters]

So in Arteta’s mind it was punishment for being late to training and being late to training six months earlier.
There was more to it than that. They don't go into detail but there were obviously a series of things where Auba wasn't toeing the line.
For whatever reason the relationship between manager and player broke down. Arteta couldn't back down and retain authority.
Only option was to get rid.

I do think Arteta's team talks are weird, but the players seem to respond to them so whatevz.

[IBK]

Finding it difficult to understand why people have such a problem with Arteta getting rid of players that were problematic to the team ethic, either because of disciplinary issues or because they were not team players. People are entitled to speculate as to whether this player or that is/was a better football player than those we are left with, or to take issue with whether they may have fared differently under a different manager. But personally I think we have to start with the culture that Arteta wishes to foster. He is our manager, whether people like it or not, and is in charge. If players can't, or don't want to play ball under his regime, then the manager is right to get rid for the sake of the team. We have complained about the shit culture around Arsenal for years. It therfore seems hugely unfair to complain when a manager tries to address this.

[Marc Overmars]

Finding it difficult to understand why people have such a problem with Arteta getting rid of players that were problematic to the team ethic, either because of disciplinary issues or because they were not team players. People are entitled to speculate as to whether this player or that is/was a better football player than those we are left with, or to take issue with whether they may have fared differently under a different manager. But personally I think we have to start with the culture that Arteta wishes to foster. He is our manager, whether people like it or not, and is in charge. If players can't, or don't want to play ball under his regime, then the manager is right to get rid for the sake of the team. We have complained about the shit culture around Arsenal for years. It therfore seems hugely unfair to complain when a manager tries to address this.

Agreed. The culture at the club stunk so bad that it got to a point where fans stopped caring because there was nothing that remotely resembled Arsenal left in the squad anymore.

It’s fine if you think Arteta is a weirdo or a cunt but he has rightly pushed the reset button on this club. What we have now is better recruitment, motivated players and most importantly a happy fanbase and match going crowd. If that meant making some tough decisions along the way then so be it, whatever you think of his ability as a coach he absolutely has to lay down the law and ensure things are done his way and standards continue to be met.

[IBK]

Agreed. The culture at the club stunk so bad that it got to a point where fans stopped caring because there was nothing that remotely resembled Arsenal left in the squad anymore.

It’s fine if you think Arteta is a weirdo or a cunt but he has rightly pushed the reset button on this club. What we have now is better recruitment, motivated players and most importantly a happy fanbase and match going crowd. If that meant making some tough decisions along the way then so be it, whatever you think of his ability as a coach he absolutely has to lay down the law and ensure things are done his way and standards continue to be met.

Agreed. Anyone who has been to games recently cannot dispute that there has been a sea change in the atmosphere around the club - and this includes the players. People moan when we don't put in a 10/10 performance in every game, but frankly no team ever does - even Citeh and Liverpool, and we cannot have done more this season than win every game, and have our players clearly playing with hugely more drive and purpose. You don't come back from conceding goals as we have done without a great team spirit. This is down to Arteta's management, and you can't have the improved performances and togetherness without accepting the manager's methods. Personally, I don't want to see players out there that don't buy into the project and it surprises me to see people favouring those who haven;t done and left the club.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My issue is we were not in a position to decide that our best striker was beyond redemption. And when you can look at the way Guendouzi was dealt with and look at our current central midfield and not consider that an issue, the problem is not with the people pointing out that something is hideously wrong with Arteta

What exactly had Auba done to be treated the way he was, being late to training and being back a day late from seeing his mum. The way he was isolated, you’d have thought he was R Kelly.

There’s no consistency with it either, Laca grabs Cedric round the throat because he commented unfavourably on Laca sliding in like a Cunt on young Arsenal players. I didn’t see any public discipline for Laca here.

When you’re trying to get fourth spot do you not think it would have been wise to fine Auba maybe leave him out of the side for a game and then that would be that?. If the player is going at the end of the season anyway it’s utterly churlish to not try and get as many goals out of him as possible rather than trying to look like you’re in control by humiliating him.

[Niall_Quinn]

I have no sympathy for Auba, if taken in isolation. These players who think they have somehow surpassed the requirement to be eternally grateful for the entirely unreasonable privilege they enjoy deserve our upmost contempt. If they guy can't even turn up on time, to be showered in money and pampered like a prince, then fuck him. No?

However.

As this warranted standard is not applied evenly and vigorously across the board I can see where the confusion arises. Why him and not any of the other pieces of shit who masquerade as sportsmen? Good question.

Who are the professionals these days? The ones who live for the sport and not the money? They must still exist even if their number if greatly diminished. Can't think of anyone off the top of my head, but there must be some? Ain't Auba though.

[Letters]

My issue is we were not in a position to decide that our best striker was beyond redemption.
Who are "we"? Arteta made the call, and it is his call to make.


the problem is not with the people pointing out that something is hideously wrong with Arteta
The players seem to disagree with that assessment.


What exactly had Auba done to be treated the way he was, being late to training and being back a day late from seeing his mum.
That is not known. But from the things Arteta hinted at in A or N it clearly wasn't just one or two things. Isolating him was a bit "putting him on the naughty step" but Arteta clearly felt Auba's presence in training would have a negative effect. Again, that is his call to make. If there is a criticism of Arteta it's that he weakened the squad last January and didn't sign anyone. He took a gamble that the squad would carry us through the rest of the season, it didn't quite work in terms of top 4. But he was also clearly thinking longer term, the club are clearly backing him and have invested well this summer. We are seeing the results. Long way to go, obviously. And this season will have its ups and downs as they all do. But we do look to have stepped up a level this year.


When you’re trying to get fourth spot do you not think it would have been wise to fine Auba maybe leave him out of the side for a game and then that would be that?. If the player is going at the end of the season anyway it’s utterly churlish to not try and get as many goals out of him as possible rather than trying to look like you’re in control by humiliating him.

There was obviously more going on than him just being late for a training session or not. Arteta made the call that it was better overall for squad discipline and cohesion to get rid. It's notable that Laca, who apparently was BFFs with Auba, pretty much stopped scoring too. So he was shipped as well. Fans only think short term, the club clearly has a longer term strategy. Whether it will work, well let's see how this season goes. But there are positive signs so far.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Who are "we"? Arteta made the call, and it is his call to make.


The players seem to disagree with that assessment.


That is not known. But from the things Arteta hinted at in A or N it clearly wasn't just one or two things. Isolating him was a bit "putting him on the naughty step" but Arteta clearly felt Auba's presence in training would have a negative effect. Again, that is his call to make. If there is a criticism of Arteta it's that he weakened the squad last January and didn't sign anyone. He took a gamble that the squad would carry us through the rest of the season, it didn't quite work in terms of top 4. But he was also clearly thinking longer term, the club are clearly backing him and have invested well this summer. We are seeing the results. Long way to go, obviously. And this season will have its ups and downs as they all do. But we do look to have stepped up a level this year.



There was obviously more going on than him just being late for a training session or not. Arteta made the call that it was better overall for squad discipline and cohesion to get rid. It's notable that Laca, who apparently was BFFs with Auba, pretty much stopped scoring too. So he was shipped as well. Fans only think short term, the club clearly has a longer term strategy. Whether it will work, well let's see how this season goes. But there are positive signs so far.

The difference is your reaching for explanations I'm using Occam’s razor as a guide

You talk about what the players say about Arteta, they go on about what a brilliant tactical mind he has. They don’t talk about how much they like him. To a degree I would accept it’s not necessary to like a coach, but when you have zero personal relationships with any of these players (something clearly alluded to by Edu at one point) the idea that anyone thinks players being singled out and isolated because they have earned the ire of this weird, introverted megalomaniac is suddenly over because we have sculpted a new squad is sadly mistaken.
As I keep saying it’s a clear pattern of behaviour, even NQ has a point that there’s zero consistency with it either.
Arteta’s frail ego cannot stand to be challenged, so in that respect we are stuck with someone with the personality type and charm of Graham Souness

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmmm, my main criticism of Arteta would be his team keeps collapsing like a cheap whore caught in a GI drop zone. Maybe focus on that first and consider the finer details after the catastrophic stuff has been addressed.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Hmmm, my main criticism of Arteta would be his team keeps collapsing like a cheap whore caught in a GI drop zone. Maybe focus on that first and consider the finer details after the catastrophic stuff has been addressed.

That can be addressed very easily. They arent very good

But the reason they aren’t even meeting their mediocre potential is because Arteta is likely a) on the neuro diverse spectrum (look at his inability to hold eye contact with people) and b) has such a frail ego that he needs to make examples of others in order to deflect from his own deficiencies as a coach and a human being.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well I don't know anything about all that. Didn't watch this program and have no interest in it. All I know is I consistently saw that bloke White get the ball to his feet, with time, and do shit I'd be embarrassed to repeat on a Sunday league dirt patch. There's something very seriously wrong with any manager who can allow that standard to exist on a professional football pitch. Maybe it's for the reasons you state, but after so many years of watching football swirl down the drain I think it has more to do with a general disrespect for the sport by all concerned. And if we are one bunch of disrespectful cunts who get the better of some other bunch down the road, for the bargain price of several million quid in a week's wages, then I'd say it was time for all of them to go, not just Arteta. He's just a symptom, not a cause.

[Letters]

The difference is your reaching for explanations I'm using Occam’s razor as a guide
Which is all it is, a guiding principle not some inalienable law of the universe.
And no you’re not, you have some weird hate boner for Arteta for some reason. All your pontifications about him are twisted through that lens. And for balance, I like Arteta so I guess I am more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Whether you like him or not, it’s clear there has been progress under him. Not just in terms of results, but in terms of the way we play, team cohesion and the relationship between fans and the team. That last point is vital, when that relationship between team and fanbase is broken, as it was, then it’s a serious problem. I don’t go to games now but by all accounts there has been a clear change in atmosphere. The fans are buying in to what the club are trying to build, it seems the players are too. Let’s see where that takes is this season. We don’t know where that will take us. I’ll judge that, and Arteta, at (all together now) the end of the season.

[IBK]

My issue is we were not in a position to decide that our best striker was beyond redemption. And when you can look at the way Guendouzi was dealt with and look at our current central midfield and not consider that an issue, the problem is not with the people pointing out that something is hideously wrong with Arteta

What exactly had Auba done to be treated the way he was, being late to training and being back a day late from seeing his mum. The way he was isolated, you’d have thought he was R Kelly.

There’s no consistency with it either, Laca grabs Cedric round the throat because he commented unfavourably on Laca sliding in like a Cunt on young Arsenal players. I didn’t see any public discipline for Laca here.

When you’re trying to get fourth spot do you not think it would have been wise to fine Auba maybe leave him out of the side for a game and then that would be that?. If the player is going at the end of the season anyway it’s utterly churlish to not try and get as many goals out of him as possible rather than trying to look like you’re in control by humiliating him.

As I've said before, your assumptions about the manager don't stand up to the facts. Arteta was clearly an Auba fan - he re-signed him after all. It just doesn't make sense that Arteta would cut of his nose to spite his face and leave us without a first choice striker because he had some kind of vendetta. Like him or not (and you clearly don't), the logical conclusion must be that Auba, and Guendouzi for that matter, were behaving in a way that ran counter to what Arteta is trying to achieve, and only the most one eyed of Arteta detractors can argue that he has not made strides in improving the culture at the club on and off the pitch.

[Letters]

Finished this.
Despite the disappointment at the end of the season, I ended up feeling quite upbeat having watched the season.
No-one on here expected Top 4 last year, remember last season was on the back of 2 seasons of finishing 8th. So why is anyone losing their shit because we didn't quite make it?
I guess it was because we had it in our hands and let it slip, which is fair. But they're a young squad, it's a learning experience. It was a clear progression from the previous season, it feels like there's a plan for the club and a strategy. So let's see where we end up next May. Already there are encouraging signs. Sunday was a kick in the knackers but it's always a tough place to go, and we seem to struggle up there more than most for some reason. Long way to go yet, but pretty much everyone would have taken 5 wins and a loss from the first 6 games.

[Chippy]

Finished this.
Despite the disappointment at the end of the season, I ended up feeling quite upbeat having watched the season.
No-one on here expected Top 4 last year, remember last season was on the back of 2 seasons of finishing 8th. So why is anyone losing their shit because we didn't quite make it?
I guess it was because we had it in our hands and let it slip, which is fair. But they're a young squad, it's a learning experience. It was a clear progression from the previous season, it feels like there's a plan for the club and a strategy. So let's see where we end up next May. Already there are encouraging signs. Sunday was a kick in the knackers but it's always a tough place to go, and we seem to struggle up there more than most for some reason. Long way to go yet, but pretty much everyone would have taken 5 wins and a loss from the first 6 games.

The only reason (I believe) is that shit was lost by everyone is because we let the scum into the CL when it was in our own hands.

I know that people laugh about the prospect, but could you imagine if they actually won the CL this season? We would never forgive the team for the fail.

PS
I never realised how hard Edu worked behind the scenes. I actually admire him after watching the whole series.

[mandela8]

The only reason (I believe) is that shit was lost by everyone is because we let the scum into the CL when it was in our own hands.

I know that people laugh about the prospect, but could you imagine if they actually won the CL this season? We would never forgive the team for the fail.

PS
I never realised how hard Edu worked behind the scenes. I actually admire him after watching the whole series.

Intradesting observation on Edu. I finished the series with a lower opinion of him. Him, and the 2 execs just struck me as amateurish.

I thought Arteta and Kroenke came off well though. Maybe as I had such a low opinion of them initially but they went up in my estimation, for sure. I've certainly a little more time for Arteta. Tempered by how the show was edited, obviously, but he came across well.

[Letters]

The only reason (I believe) is that shit was lost by everyone is because we let the scum into the CL when it was in our own hands.

I know that people laugh about the prospect, but could you imagine if they actually won the CL this season? We would never forgive the team for the fail.
Yes, it didn't help that it was that lot who we lost out to.

[selassie]

As I've said before, your assumptions about the manager don't stand up to the facts. Arteta was clearly an Auba fan - he re-signed him after all. It just doesn't make sense that Arteta would cut of his nose to spite his face and leave us without a first choice striker because he had some kind of vendetta. Like him or not (and you clearly don't), the logical conclusion must be that Auba, and Guendouzi for that matter, were behaving in a way that ran counter to what Arteta is trying to achieve, and only the most one eyed of Arteta detractors can argue that he has not made strides in improving the culture at the club on and off the pitch.

Agreed. In Guendouzi's case he has been acting up at Marseille too and falling out with his coaches. Guendouzi has developed into a very good player but he still has a problematic attitude if the reports are to be believed. Auba I am not remotely bothered about, he gave up and was causing issues in the dressing room, we did the right thing in getting rid. What we / Arteta should have done is have a replacement lined up or at least brought in some kind of temporary solution. It is what it is.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As I've said before, your assumptions about the manager don't stand up to the facts. Arteta was clearly an Auba fan - he re-signed him after all. It just doesn't make sense that Arteta would cut of his nose to spite his face and leave us without a first choice striker because he had some kind of vendetta. Like him or not (and you clearly don't), the logical conclusion must be that Auba, and Guendouzi for that matter, were behaving in a way that ran counter to what Arteta is trying to achieve, and only the most one eyed of Arteta detractors can argue that he has not made strides in improving the culture at the club on and off the pitch.

You seem to be making an assumption about what I stated. I don’t think Arteta had a problem with Auba from the outset but it became increasingly apparent over time that he lacked the strength of personality to deal with him when difficulties emerged. It’s hard to keep a player motivated when you’ve given him a 300k a week contract but the coach is there to do just that.
The fact remains that we don’t really know what these red lines were, being late for training and being late a day back from holiday are of course not good behaviour and need to be addressed but they need to be addressed head on, not with passive agressive standoffish petulance that Arteta has shown.
Guendouzi is no doubt a little shit and I don’t think much of the rest of the team had much love for him, but a good coach had the potential to turn that fiery attitude into potential….Arteta as is so abundantly clear cannot handle this.
As I have said and will keep saying, you will not see the last of this behaviour from Arteta it’s ingrained in him, someone will challenge him and find themselves training by themselves or he will find a scapegoat.

[GP]

https://i.redd.it/dg5gf7qgzwm91.jpg

[Mac76]

You seem to be making an assumption about what I stated. I don’t think Arteta had a problem with Auba from the outset but it became increasingly apparent over time that he lacked the strength of personality to deal with him when difficulties emerged. It’s hard to keep a player motivated when you’ve given him a 300k a week contract but the coach is there to do just that.
The fact remains that we don’t really know what these red lines were, being late for training and being late a day back from holiday are of course not good behaviour and need to be addressed but they need to be addressed head on, not with passive agressive standoffish petulance that Arteta has shown.
Guendouzi is no doubt a little shit and I don’t think much of the rest of the team had much love for him, but a good coach had the potential to turn that fiery attitude into potential….Arteta as is so abundantly clear cannot handle this.
As I have said and will keep saying, you will not see the last of this behaviour from Arteta it’s ingrained in him, someone will challenge him and find themselves training by themselves or he will find a scapegoat.

Two standout moments for me with Guendouzi both showed his passion put to good use, one was to win the pel against Villa and the other to be the only one to stand up for our keeper when Maupay flattened him

A bit more guts like that in the side (rather than the moronic 'passion' aka clumsiness and hotheadedness that gets Xhaka regularly booked and sent off) and i'd believe we might make top four

[Letters]

https://i.redd.it/dg5gf7qgzwm91.jpg

:haha:

[selassie]

Two standout moments for me with Guendouzi both showed his passion put to good use, one was to win the pel against Villa and the other to be the only one to stand up for our keeper when Maupay flattened him

A bit more guts like that in the side (rather than the moronic 'passion' aka clumsiness and hotheadedness that gets Xhaka regularly booked and sent off) and i'd believe we might make top four

So we would basically make top four without Xhaka in the team? ;)