Arsenal vs Liverpool - Player ratings and Match Reaction

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ramsdale 7 - Had no chance with either goal and showed good reactions to keep out Nunez and stop Saliba from scoring an own goal


White 6 - Was pinned back by Diaz and found him tough to handle at times


Saliba 7 - Largely solid, Ramsdale had to be sharp to stop him from netting an own goal which would have been harsh as it was a find defensive interception


Gabriel 5 - I’m sorry but he needs to be dropped, today he was lucky not to concede a penalty and a moronic header put Liverpool in for their equaliser


Tomoyasu 6 - Did ok given he’s not a right back let alone a left back, found it harder as the first half went on to contain Salah



Partey 6 - Pretty poor and Liverpool seemed quite happy to play around him



Xhaka 6 - Not often I say this but he actually was better than Partey as he seemed to make more interceptions but still not good enough at this level



Odegaard 7 - More involved than he was against Spurs last week, lovely ball through to Martinelli for the opening goal


Martinelli 9 - Just makes full backs soil themselves doesn’t he, his pace, his control on the ball…him and Jesus are definitely our two best players this season


Jesus 7 - Not quite as much of a menace as he was against Tottenham and Brentford but he’s always there breathing down peoples necks


Saka 8 - Not had the best start to the season, but got forward well…timed his run well to get his goal and showed balls to score the penalty.


Subs: Can’t really remember


It wasn’t the same confident performance we’ve seen earlier in the season, but when a team has done us over as many times as Liverpool has done us over recently…it’s understandable…given we were pegged back twice we showed a lot of character. A really important and deserved win.

[Marc Overmars]

Gabriel has taken Xhaka’s place as the mistake magnet.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gabriel has taken Xhaka’s place as the mistake magnet.

Gabriel is a really good defender, at his best one of the best in the league. But I’d say on at least three or four occasions this season he’s produced some bed shitting moments that really call his judgement into question.

For me I’d drop him for a few games…move Tomoyasu to right back and play White in the centre with Saliba.

[Chippy]

Gabriel is a really good defender, at his best one of the best in the league. But I’d say on at least three or four occasions this season he’s produced some bed shitting moments that really call his judgement into question.

For me I’d drop him for a few games…move Tomoyasu to right back and play White in the centre with Saliba.
Spot on.
He needs to get his head straight before he plays again.

[selassie]

Ramsdale 7 - Had no chance with either goal and showed good reactions to keep out Nunez and stop Saliba from scoring an own goal


White 6 - Was pinned back by Diaz and found him tough to handle at times


Saliba 7 - Largely solid, Ramsdale had to be sharp to stop him from netting an own goal which would have been harsh as it was a find defensive interception


Gabriel 5 - I’m sorry but he needs to be dropped, today he was lucky not to concede a penalty and a moronic header put Liverpool in for their equaliser


Tomoyasu 6 - Did ok given he’s not a right back let alone a left back, found it harder as the first half went on to contain Salah



Partey 6 - Pretty poor and Liverpool seemed quite happy to play around him



Xhaka 6 - Not often I say this but he actually was better than Partey as he seemed to make more interceptions but still not good enough at this level



Odegaard 7 - More involved than he was against Spurs last week, lovely ball through to Martinelli for the opening goal


Martinelli 9 - Just makes full backs soil themselves doesn’t he, his pace, his control on the ball…him and Jesus are definitely our two best players this season


Jesus 7 - Not quite as much of a menace as he was against Tottenham and Brentford but he’s always there breathing down peoples necks


Saka 8 - Not had the best start to the season, but got forward well…timed his run well to get his goal and showed balls to score the penalty.


Subs: Can’t really remember


It wasn’t the same confident performance we’ve seen earlier in the season, but when a team has done us over as many times as Liverpool has done us over recently…it’s understandable…given we were pegged back twice we showed a lot of character. A really important and deserved win.

I think Tomiyasu deserves a higher rating than that. I thought he was really good today. I agree we were pretty below par in Midfield, both Partey and Xhaka. They did improve second half though.

[GP]

I thought both full backs were really good. Tomi especially.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I thought both full backs were really good. Tomi especially.

Totally agree with you, in fact don't really agree with most of Zombie's ratings today (except the Gabriel part).

Besides the fullbacks who both did great jobs, we owe most of the victory to the solidity of the usual standout stars... Saliba, Partey and Martinelli...guys who never get fazed by the opposition.

Xhaka also had a good game, though we can and should do better.

It was a good team effort, but like I keep saying, in these big games you need players to standout and go the extra mile, show that there is really something special about them....Martinelli clearly did today and the other mentions didn't shirk responsibility either.

Again I think Odegaard really needs to step up or better yet Arteta shouldn't play him in these big games...safe performances aren't good enough for this team in these kind of matches.

Well done to our rookie...6 points in the last 2 games is really something impressive.

[LDG]

Tomi was excellent, as was White.

Our midfield were bossed by Liverpool first half, but our good shape limited their chances. I thought Partey was poor in the first half, caught between Liverpool’s lines. We struggled to keep the ball. The change at half time of squeezing the midfield worked much better and as Liverpool backed off we took control.

Really inpressive we as a team are able to make these tactical changes. Partey was excellent in the second half.

[LDG]

By the way, what planet was Oliver officiating on today?

How can an elbow in Jesus’ face be a free kick to Liverpool, let alone a look by VAR should gave given him a decision to make on whether or not it was deliberate. Some of the other rough tactics were dismissed….I’m all for a more physical game, and its great to see refs not stopping play all the time, but there is physical and there is foul play.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think Tomiyasu deserves a higher rating than that. I thought he was really good today. I agree we were pretty below par in Midfield, both Partey and Xhaka. They did improve second half though.

I’d happily bump it up to a 7, I did think he was getting done a bit on Liverpool’s right hand side as the half wore on. But I think he did play pretty well

[Ollie the Optimist]

I didnt see the second half but what’s this about Henderson allegedly making racist comments to Gabriel?

Stories in the papers today seem to say it was him and FA is looking into this.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I didnt see the second half but what’s this about Henderson allegedly making racist comments to Gabriel?

Stories in the papers today seem to say it was him and FA is looking into this.


Who knows, there’s footage of him and Gabriel Maga having an argument and something he says seems to make GM very angry indeed. No point in speculating what was said ….but interesting thing Arteta smiled when asked about it. Don’t know what to read into that, maybe he thinks Gabriel misheard something

[selassie]

I didnt see the second half but what’s this about Henderson allegedly making racist comments to Gabriel?

Stories in the papers today seem to say it was him and FA is looking into this.

Rumours he also said "Rape" stuff to Thomas Partey too.

[selassie]

Tomi was excellent, as was White.

Our midfield were bossed by Liverpool first half, but our good shape limited their chances. I thought Partey was poor in the first half, caught between Liverpool’s lines. We struggled to keep the ball. The change at half time of squeezing the midfield worked much better and as Liverpool backed off we took control.

Really inpressive we as a team are able to make these tactical changes. Partey was excellent in the second half.

Aye, I kind of knew Tomi would put in a decent showing as he is "Mr Consistent". Ben White has really pleased me this season though, he is actually growing into his role at right back, he was very good again yesterday, especially offensively in the second half.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Rumours he also said "Rape" stuff to Thomas Partey too.

If he didn’t say anything racist and the comments were mainly directed towards/about Partey surely this is fair game ?

[mandela8]

Apologies for the sub standard thread. I'm on holiday, so not around much. Watched the game in Spanish which is significantly better than listening to it in English, given I barely understand it. I've long said we should absolutely have a 'crowd noise' option with no commentary. Anyway...

Brilliant win and, frankly, performance. An early goal is great but in a weird way it can upset the game plan and rhythm a little, which I think we saw a bit of yesterday I also think their shape with 4 forwards caused some confusion in the centre of the park with so many options for them in 'unatural' positions outside. But fair play to Arteta again as he clearly made adjustments at half time and the second have was very very good.

Ramsdale 7...did as expected with none of his early season jitters present.

Tommy...7 strange choice at LB but solid and Salah being subbed, given the problems he's caused Arsenal for years was testiment to Tommy.

Gabriel...5 he's a bit of a problem. Wouldn't mind him being dropped for a while. White into CB.

Saliba...5.5 thought he could've done better on both goals, tbh

White...7 was actually impressed. I'm not a huge fan of his, at all, but delighted if he can prove me wrong and those types of performances are great. Nothing flashy. Just good. He's never going to offer anything going forward but that's on Arteta, not White.

Partey...7 "you see, he's not a machine, he's man..." difficult first half for reasons outlined above but great in the second half. This team is mid table without him

Xhaka...6 even thinking back now I can't actually recall much of him...which is probably a good thing.

Saka...5 absolutely anonymous other than 2 touches but that's a massive improvement on his usual complete anonymity, tbf.

Jesus...7 just a good player. Done a lot of work and always wants the ball.

Martinelli...9 starting to put some end product to his otherwise phenomenal game. Was going to get a 9.5, the highest official rating of the season but lost half a point for the moustache. Fuckin ridiculous.




Arteta...continues to prove the doubters, which I'm one of, wrong. I still don't see the logic in a lot he does but I don't suppose I need to. Will be ready to pounce when he fucks up though, obvs.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Does it expend a lot of energy being such an utter cunt all the time or is it so baked in to who you are that it’s effortless?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dermot Gallagher believes our penalty against Liverpool shouldn’t have been given and that they should have had one.

For what it’s worth, I disagree with him about our penalty, he admits the player catches Jesus and didn’t get the ball so I’m not sure what his argument is

I think the Gabriel incident was a penalty, arms were in an unnatural position.


Don’t get me wrong I’m not complaining, it’s nice to get some dodgy decisions go in our favour. And after last weeks very soft red card it looks like we are getting incidents go our way. The Arsenal fans who have for ages stated that there are conspiracies against us have been somewhat quiet though.

[dazthegooner]

Dermot Gallagher even in retirement he's still a C**t.

[GP]

Gabriel Martinelli is a special player, he really is.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gabriel Martinelli is a special player, he really is.

Why? Does he have to wear water wings when he goes swimming :haha:

Not a dig at Martinelli by the way, he’s clearly a top player but I just associate the word special with being retarded now

[Mac76]

Saka...5 absolutely anonymous other than 2 touches but that's a massive improvement on his usual complete anonymity, tbf.

:haha:

[mandela8]

It was never a penalty either.

Fuckin ridiculous decision.

Contact /= a foul. This was a perfect of example of the contact coming nowhere near being a foul. It was a blatant dive. The Gabriel handball was never a penalty either.

[Letters]

Dermot Gallagher believes our penalty against Liverpool shouldn’t have been given and that they should have had one.

For what it’s worth, I disagree with him about our penalty, he admits the player catches Jesus and didn’t get the ball so I’m not sure what his argument is

I think the Gabriel incident was a penalty, arms were in an unnatural position.
They were both incidents which could have gone the other way. I must admit when I saw the penalty incident the first time I wasn't sure why it was given, but from the right angle it's pretty clearly a foul. So while I wouldn't have been surprised had it not given, I think it was the right decision. I kinda feel the same about the one which wasn't given. I hate all this shit about the ball just hitting people's hands or arms and a penalty being given. People use their arms to balance, defenders shouldn't have to have their arms behind their back for fear of conceding penalties. So while you definitely see ones like that given, I don't think they should be. It seemed pretty clear ball to hand and while those are increasingly given I really don't think they should be.

[Mac76]

They were both incidents which could have gone the other way. I must admit when I saw the penalty incident the first time I wasn't sure why it was given, but from the right angle it's pretty clearly a foul. So while I wouldn't have been surprised had it not given, I think it was the right decision. I kinda feel the same about the one which wasn't given. I hate all this shit about the ball just hitting people's hands or arms and a penalty being given. People use their arms to balance, defenders shouldn't have to have their arms behind their back for fear of conceding penalties. So while you definitely see ones like that given, I don't think they should be. It seemed pretty clear ball to hand and while those are increasingly given I really don't think they should be.

yes this is pretty much where i am with it, it should clearly be 'hand to ball' in an obvious way, if it's an accident then a pel is ridiculously harsh - Gabriel's simply moving his arms quite naturally to balance as you say

and the Jesus pel was definitely correct, it's a foul in the box - end of

[HCZ_Reborn]

They were both incidents which could have gone the other way. I must admit when I saw the penalty incident the first time I wasn't sure why it was given, but from the right angle it's pretty clearly a foul. So while I wouldn't have been surprised had it not given, I think it was the right decision. I kinda feel the same about the one which wasn't given. I hate all this shit about the ball just hitting people's hands or arms and a penalty being given. People use their arms to balance, defenders shouldn't have to have their arms behind their back for fear of conceding penalties. So while you definitely see ones like that given, I don't think they should be. It seemed pretty clear ball to hand and while those are increasingly given I really don't think they should be.


The issue is whether your arms are in a natural position, and yes for Gabriel they would be if he’d been hypnotised into thinking he was a bird. The question then becomes whether it was deliberate, no it’s not deliberate but he had enough time to move his arms out of the way which you do see him try to do.

It’s harsh but by the rules of the game it’s a penalty.

[HCZ_Reborn]

yes this is pretty much where i am with it, it should clearly be 'hand to ball' in an obvious way, if it's an accident then a pel is ridiculously harsh - Gabriel's simply moving his arms quite naturally to balance as you say

and the Jesus pel was definitely correct, it's a foul in the box - end of

But we aren’t talking about what should, we are talking about what is. If Gabriel had remained static there wouldn’t have been a case, but he jumped to clear the ball with his head and he he was using his arms (admittedly to balance himself and gain height) so his own actions moved his arms to the point where they came in contact with the ball.

[Marc Overmars]

I think we were lucky to get away the Gabriel handball, on another day that’s given by VAR IMO. Also felt like the foul on Jesus was soft and he knew what he was doing by going down, I know I’d be gutted if it was the other way around and a penalty was given against us for that.

Shit happens, we’ve had some woeful decisions go against us in the past so it all comes around.

[mandela8]

but from the right angle it's pretty clearly a foul.

rolflcoptre

[mandela8]

I think we were lucky to get away the Gabriel handball, on another day that’s given by VAR IMO. Also felt like the foul on Jesus was soft and he knew what he was doing by going down, I know I’d be gutted if it was the other way around and a penalty was given against us for that.

Shit happens, we’ve had some woeful decisions go against us in the past so it all comes around.

Yep. I mean, obviously it wasn't a foul. There's no world we're aware of in which that contact makes a grown man, trained to have elite balance and mobility, instantly crumple to the ground. It was a clear dive and anyone suggesting otherwise is just one of these weird adults who simply lose objectivity when it comes to 'their' team. Pathetic stuff, really.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think we were lucky to get away the Gabriel handball, on another day that’s given by VAR IMO. Also felt like the foul on Jesus was soft and he knew what he was doing by going down, I know I’d be gutted if it was the other way around and a penalty was given against us for that.

Shit happens, we’ve had some woeful decisions go against us in the past so it all comes around.

It was soft but you slide in on a player in the box get the player but none of the ball you risk giving away a penalty. I don’t think it was any softer than the penalty given against us against Tottenham.

And despite what the Tartan troll states a dive is when you go down under no contact

Honestly why do we have to tolerate his presence?, is it to meet a diversity quota. Not diversity for being Scottish. But diversity for being mentally retarded

[Mac76]

I think we were lucky to get away the Gabriel handball, on another day that’s given by VAR IMO. Also felt like the foul on Jesus was soft and he knew what he was doing by going down, I know I’d be gutted if it was the other way around and a penalty was given against us for that.

Shit happens, we’ve had some woeful decisions go against us in the past so it all comes around.

we were maybe a bit lucky with Gabriel but Letters' point is most 'handball' claims are BS and this is one of them

and if we got a decision like the Jesus one against us, i'd blame the defender for going in like that, not the striker

[mandela8]

and if we got a decision like the Jesus one against us, i'd blame the defender for going in like that, not the striker

No, you wouldn't.

[Letters]

we were maybe a bit lucky with Gabriel but Letters' point is most 'handball' claims are BS and this is one of them
Correct, but HCZ is right that you see this sort of thing given quite a lot. So while I'd have been aggrieved had it gone against us, I've seen sillier ones given.
And Gabriel was trying to get his arm behind his back, he just didn't react quick enough.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I can’t link the video directly but this is superb commentary from Peter Drury https://twitter.com/missionelli/status/1579192151522496512?s=46&t=RFpY6jLmgVyj46pgOyIKJQ

Think he would be better then Martin Tyler on sky

[Ollie the Optimist]

We’ve had some ridiculous decisions recently when playing Liverpool so while the penalty may be on the softer side (although we’ve suffered there too, remember when Edison took out Odegard last season and nothing given) it’s nice to see some decisions go our way. It was either last season or one before were mane elbowed KT in the face and just got a yellow when it was clearly a red.

salah dives all over the place so Liverpool complaining about it can piss off.

[GP]

Why? Does he have to wear water wings when he goes swimming :haha:

Not a dig at Martinelli by the way, he’s clearly a top player but I just associate the word special with being retarded now

You'd know haha lol

[Mac76]

I can’t link the video directly but this is superb commentary from Peter Drury https://twitter.com/missionelli/status/1579192151522496512?s=46&t=RFpY6jLmgVyj46pgOyIKJQ

Think he would be better then Martin Tyler on sky

he's the best - he isn't some cynical moron trying to fabricate controversy, he knows football is a spectacle people want to enjoy

[Mac76]

No, you wouldn't.

Ohhh yes i woooooouuuuuld ........

[Xhaka Can’t]

Does it expend a lot of energy being such an utter cunt all the time or is it so baked in to who you are that it’s effortless?

Is Mandela the only man who made your missus cum?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Is Mandela the only man who made your missus cum?

If by my missus you mean son and by cum you mean have recurring nightmares and have to point out on a cuddly toy where he was touched then yes

[LDG]

Re the pens, yes, we had the favour of VAR for a change, but they have to let the ref know if its a clear and obvious mistake.

Regardless of whether Oliver’s decision was right or wrong, neither could be classed as obvious mistakes by the rules of the game. How could you say Thiago got any of the ball. It might be soft, and Jesus may have bought it, but if those are the standards its not a mistake by Oliver.

I would be upset with the handball if it were the other way round, but again, the precedent is that it has to be unnatural in movement, and I think arm down is more unnatural there because he couldn’t possibly balance otherwise.

[mkkreuk]

The standard here at goonersweb has really gone into the toilet.

Thanks for all the good reads over the year there have been some good posters but it’s no longer worth visit. (I know someone will come afterwards and give me grief and say I was a lurker and no loss etc but wanted to say thanks to the sensible posters, MO, GP, seals sir, letters, LDG, Mac etc, who’ve made it worthwhile)

[Xhaka Can’t]

Sorry if it was my post that did it.

[Letters]

He was a lurker, no loss

:hug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

The standard here at goonersweb has really gone into the toilet.

Thanks for all the good reads over the year there have been some good posters but it’s no longer worth visit. (I know someone will come afterwards and give me grief and say I was a lurker and no loss etc but wanted to say thanks to the sensible posters, MO, GP, seals sir, letters, LDG, Mac etc, who’ve made it worthwhile)

bit odd tbh :shrug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

My two cents worth:

IT WAS A PEN ALL DAY LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOOHOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"back of the net!"
"top bins!"

etc, etc

[Xhaka Can’t]

He was a lurker, no loss

:hug:

This thread seemed to be going ok until the triumvirate of twats got involved.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This thread seemed to be going ok until the triumvirate of twats got involved.

Triumvirate of twats?

Triumvirate means three, there’s only one of you

The one thing I like (or at least liked) about this place was that sensible discussion was for girly men and that this was a sanctuary for unpleasant and unnecessary abuse

No seriously though…sensible discussion has its place, but so does accusing someone you’ll never meet of being a kiddy fiddler

[Xhaka Can’t]

Triumvirate of twats?

Triumvirate means three, there’s only one of you

The one thing I like (or at least liked) about this place was that sensible discussion was for girly men and that this was a sanctuary for unpleasant and unnecessary abuse

No seriously though…sensible discussion has its place, but so does accusing someone you’ll never meet of being a kiddy fiddler
I was referring to you, Mandela and myself.

Twat

[HCZ_Reborn]

I was referring to you, Mandela and myself.

Twat

I’m not a twat im a cunt

Although both descriptors for the same thing, there’s a subtle difference

[KSE Comedy Club]

OMG the media cannot stop trying to make excuses for us beating their precious Liverpool.

So After Klopp's press conference, it has now 'emerged' that Saka may have been in a camera blind spot in the lead up tot our first goal which made it impossible for VAR to draw the line which proved he was offside.


Seriously, can they all just fuck the fuck off!!

[HCZ_Reborn]

OMG the media cannot stop trying to make excuses for us beating their precious Liverpool.

So After Klopp's press conference, it has now 'emerged' that Saka may have been in a camera blind spot in the lead up tot our first goal which made it impossible for VAR to draw the line which proved he was offside.


Seriously, can they all just fuck the fuck off!!


Do you really care?

[dazthegooner]

Well in the good spirit of the game we should offer to replay the match :good: <_<

[KSE Comedy Club]

Do you really care?

Not normally, but it seems every week they are looking into excuses that we shouldn't have won.

It would just be nice to see us get the credit we deserve for once without it being marred in fake controversy

[Mac76]

Some media commentators give us our just deserts, but you need to remember that stirring up comtroversy sells papers and generates phone calls to radio stations, that's what it's all about

They can all FOAD tbh

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not normally, but it seems every week they are looking into excuses that we shouldn't have won.

It would just be nice to see us get the credit we deserve for once without it being marred in fake controversy


I get why it can be annoying, but personally I’ve long passed the point of caring whether a win is deserved or not. And it works both ways, if we draw or lose when we were the better side or have had a decision go against us…it’s materially irrelevant in the sense that you don’t get do overs and whilst it might make for an interesting talking point for bitter has beens and men who spit at children, it really changes nothing. A win will still be a win and a loss still a loss.

The last game I went to was against Brighton, to say I wasn’t pleased that Martinelli’s goal was chalked off was an understatement, but ultimately a game that could and maybe should have ended 2-2 equally can’t come away and complain too much because we were distinctly second best throughout that match. Whether Liverpool can feel hard done by certain decisions doesn’t change the fact that they were distinctly second best and maybe need to do more to look at their own performance.

I don’t listen to sky sports commentary shy of you tube clips of Roy Keane getting into arguments with Jamie Carragher (so watching for the side show rather than any respect for their analysis), I sure as hell don’t listen to Talksport or read the newspapers. The only sports periodical I tend to read because it’s quite interesting is the Athletic.

[Letters]

I don't care.
I don't think there's any inherent anti-Arsenal bias in the media. Certain individuals will have that of course, but Ian Wright is very much the opposite of course.
Fans of any club tend to fixate and moan about the people who are anti their club. But as stated, I don't care. I just enjoy their tears.
With the Liverpool result neither of the two penalty incidents, the one given and the one not, were clear. So those are discussion points. It did feel like they went for us, but there have plenty of times where the reverse has been true so I think, on balance, we'll keep the 3 points thanks.

[Mac76]

I don't care.
I don't think there's any inherent anti-Arsenal bias in the media. Certain individuals will have that of course, but Ian Wright is very much the opposite of course.
Fans of any club tend to fixate and moan about the people who are anti their club. But as stated, I don't care. I just enjoy their tears.
With the Liverpool result neither of the two penalty incidents, the one given and the one not, were clear. So those are discussion points. It did feel like they went for us, but there have plenty of times where the reverse has been true so I think, on balance, we'll keep the 3 points thanks.

i hate to be in any way tin-foil-hat about this but actually i do think our players get put under more scrutiny by the media and refs than others, and much of the media have a hard time talking us up compared to Liverpool, Spuds and one or two other teams

for example if K**t played for us he'd be criticised more for his constant cheating and violent conduct - i know it's partly his England captain status but being Spuds captain also helps him

perhaps it's the general right-wing/underlying-racist bias of much the media that's also playing a part here - Arsenal are supported by lots of 'Islington lefties', also our fan base must be one of if not the most diverse in the country

[HCZ_Reborn]

i hate to be in any way tin-foil-hat about this but actually i do think our players get put under more scrutiny by the media and refs than others, and much of the media have a hard time talking us up compared to Liverpool, Spuds and one or two other teams

for example if K**t played for us he'd be criticised more for his constant cheating and violent conduct - i know it's partly his England captain status but being Spuds captain also helps him

perhaps it's the general right-wing/underlying-racist bias of much the media that's also playing a part here - Arsenal are supported by lots of 'Islington lefties', also our fan base must be one of if not the most diverse in the country

You think that the dislike is political?

Yes we may be based in Islington, but Arsenal has historically been known as the Bank of England club…until Porn Tache bought us…the board was full of Tory blue bloods blue chip business owners.

Plus you have to ask yourself why would they then favour Liverpool or either of the Manchester clubs which are clearly left wing Labour controlled areas….Liverpool especially is a hot bed of socialism.

[IBK]

You think that the dislike is political?

Yes we may be based in Islington, but Arsenal has historically been known as the Bank of England club…until Porn Tache bought us…the board was full of Tory blue bloods blue chip business owners.

Plus you have to ask yourself why would they then favour Liverpool or either of the Manchester clubs which are clearly left wing Labour controlled areas….Liverpool especially is a hot bed of socialism.

I think there is a certain anti- Arsenal bias in the media, but this is not political. I think it's a hangover from the Wenger days when we were perceived as a foreign team in an English league. Conversely the Sp*ds have a perception of being an 'English' 'team. It is also down to the fact that amongst a certain generation of pundits and influencers there is a preponderance of Manure and Liverpool supporters.

But it is not as marked as we might believe subjectively, and we have to accept that some of our detractors have simply followed our trajectory in recent years. We are a 'big club' that has failed to win anything really major for nearly 2 decades. Of course this is likely to encourage criticism, and the only way to combat that is to improve league performances.

Success brings admiration and alters perceptions. People like to back winners, and join bandwagons that look like they are going places. It was interesting to see us get the rub of the green from the ref on Sunday. This is what happens when a team is clearly on the up, and plays effective and exciting football.

[selassie]

i hate to be in any way tin-foil-hat about this but actually i do think our players get put under more scrutiny by the media and refs than others, and much of the media have a hard time talking us up compared to Liverpool, Spuds and one or two other teams

for example if K**t played for us he'd be criticised more for his constant cheating and violent conduct - i know it's partly his England captain status but being Spuds captain also helps him

perhaps it's the general right-wing/underlying-racist bias of much the media that's also playing a part here - Arsenal are supported by lots of 'Islington lefties', also our fan base must be one of if not the most diverse in the country

Slightly off-topic but related. It's been interesting listening to the pundit views since our victory against the Scousers. The media love a story and are beginning to talk us up as the most credible challenger to City this season. I have noticed quite a few pundits such as Roy Keane, Carragher and Redknapp are talking us up as title challengers now. I guess this is born from us winning games against our top 4 rivals.

[Marc Overmars]

Arsenal just haven’t been relevant enough over the years to give any credence to. Whether there’s an anti-Arsenal agenda or not it’s hard to really argue against the doubters because it’s the same sentiment we’ve all shared since Wenger redefined what success was post 2006 and we descended into also rans.

The title talk isn’t helpful at this stage because it’s so early. 1 or 2 bum results for us and we could suddenly drop a few places. I suppose they’ve got to create their narrative somehow and a rejuvenated Arsenal does provide some intrigue.

[Mac76]

You think that the dislike is political?

Yes we may be based in Islington, but Arsenal has historically been known as the Bank of England club…until Porn Tache bought us…the board was full of Tory blue bloods blue chip business owners.

Plus you have to ask yourself why would they then favour Liverpool or either of the Manchester clubs which are clearly left wing Labour controlled areas….Liverpool especially is a hot bed of socialism.

sure, i only said 'perhaps', but the right-wing media are essentially London-based and i can't help feeling there's something there, i get your point about Liveprool but given the orthodoxy about Hillsborough adn Livepool are being victims etc they have no choice but to be fairly uncritical or at least balanced - as for Manchester again the orthodoxy is to go on about how brilliant it is

[Mac76]

Slightly off-topic but related. It's been interesting listening to the pundit views since our victory against the Scousers. The media love a story and are beginning to talk us up as the most credible challenger to City this season. I have noticed quite a few pundits such as Roy Keane, Carragher and Redknapp are talking us up as title challengers now. I guess this is born from us winning games against our top 4 rivals.

in terms of "the most credible challenger to City this season" then sure why not, we're doing better than anyone else - but "most credible" doesn't equal "likely" - it's extremely unlikely we'll trouble Citeh unless Haaland, De Bruyne and Foden all get injured

[Letters]

Arsenal just haven’t been relevant enough over the years to give any credence to. Whether there’s an anti-Arsenal agenda or not it’s hard to really argue against the doubters because it’s the same sentiment we’ve all shared since Wenger redefined what success was post 2006 and we descended into also rans.

The title talk isn’t helpful at this stage because it’s so early. 1 or 2 bum results for us and we could suddenly drop a few places. I suppose they’ve got to create their narrative somehow and a rejuvenated Arsenal does provide some intrigue.

Right. Remember after 3 games last year the media were sucking Spurs' cocks and declaring them serious contenders. 3 games in! And after our calamitous start the panic buttons were being well and truly pressed. 3 games later we were above Spurs and while we did end up below them it was only because of our late slip, there was nothing between the clubs last season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

sure, i only said 'perhaps', but the right-wing media are essentially London-based and i can't help feeling there's something there, i get your point about Liveprool but given the orthodoxy about Hillsborough adn Livepool are being victims etc they have no choice but to be fairly uncritical or at least balanced - as for Manchester again the orthodoxy is to go on about how brilliant it is

I think you’re boxing yourself into a corner a bit on that

I think IBK is a bit more accurate in his summation of it, even though the irony is that Chelsea and not us were the first team to put out a non English XI

The main bias against us I feel was always the repeated claim that Arsenal don’t like it up them or have a soft underbelly which had an underpinning of xenophobia which believes that English are stoic and stiff upper lipped and foreigners are spineless jellyfish. I think this has had an effect and whilst the term unconscious bias is over sold I think referees have absorbed this and have a tendency to be lenient to teams who’s behaviour towards us is similar to that of Don Revie’s Leeds towards any opponent.
I think the style of football we played especially at the zenith of the Wenger era was always actually admired, and often commentators would say “it’s no longer boring, boring Arsenal”

[HCZ_Reborn]

in terms of "the most credible challenger to City this season" then sure why not, we're doing better than anyone else - but "most credible" doesn't equal "likely" - it's extremely unlikely we'll trouble Citeh unless Haaland, De Bruyne and Foden all get injured

Yep

Sky sports especially have a vested interest in talking us up as challengers though, because the best league in the world which they frequently sell the premier league as being is going to be competitive and isn’t going to have one team canter to the title (and yes it’s far more likely City will do exactly that, than we pull off a Leicester City)

I think that comes down to Haaland, as good as De Bruyne is (and he is, still the best creative midfielder in the premier league by some distance) without a central focal point for attack…it was always possible to catch City on an off day. Now I just don’t see that happening….I’m not saying they will go the season unbeaten but I think they are definitely capable of it

[selassie]

in terms of "the most credible challenger to City this season" then sure why not, we're doing better than anyone else - but "most credible" doesn't equal "likely" - it's extremely unlikely we'll trouble Citeh unless Haaland, De Bruyne and Foden all get injured

We are so far based on results and performances too which have backed them up. I personally do not think we can continue this great form for numerous reasons, our squad depth being the main one.

Despite that, I think if we can keep a relatively healthy squad then we should definitely be aiming for a top 3 finish this season.

[fakeyank]

The standard here at goonersweb has really gone into the toilet.

Thanks for all the good reads over the year there have been some good posters but it’s no longer worth visit. (I know someone will come afterwards and give me grief and say I was a lurker and no loss etc but wanted to say thanks to the sensible posters, MO, GP, seals sir, letters, LDG, Mac etc, who’ve made it worthwhile)

You missed Fakeyank in that list tbf..

[Letters]

No he didn't :ninja:

[fakeyank]

No he didn't :ninja:

:ilt:

[dostoy]

What happened between Gabriel and Henderson ? I thought soon after the match finished that it must have been something racial because of all the secrecy. I'm not surprised at all the FA are getting lip readers to tell them what was said and by whom, I'm a bit surprised SKY haven't, although maybe they have. Its all very intriguing.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Is it? I think it just feels unlikely to me that Henderson has got to the age he has got to in the name, never a racial epithet has passed his lips in public and suddenly it does. If he was John Terry or Lee Bowyer where he had a bit of form you’d think ok…but Henderson is pretty non controversial as footballers go.

Of course it doesn’t rule it out, but just doesn’t seem like the likeliest explanation. I think Something has been said, and Gabriel has taken offence either because he’s misheard or misinterpreted something or something personally insulting to him or a team mate.

I don’t generally find it all that interesting tbh

[Letters]

I don’t generally find it all that interesting tbh
Back in the day literally no-one would be saying anything about this.
Partly, I guess, because there wouldn't have been 10 different camera angles in HD to pore through.
But yeah, holy shit who cares? I mean, if it was something racial then that needs dealing with, but I agree it seems unlikely.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Back in the day literally no-one would be saying anything about this.
Partly, I guess, because there wouldn't have been 10 different camera angles in HD to pore through.
But yeah, holy shit who cares? I mean, if it was something racial then that needs dealing with, but I agree it seems unlikely.

If it’s non racial, it’s just sledging….and I’m a big fan of sledging especially on the cricket pitch

“How’s your wife and my kids?”
“Wife’s fine….kids are retarded”

[IBK]

No he didn't :ninja:

He did miss IBK though :lol:

[WMUG]

Back in the day literally no-one would be saying anything about this.


:oldboy:

[Mac76]

If it’s non racial, it’s just sledging….and I’m a big fan of sledging especially on the cricket pitch

“How’s your wife and my kids?”
“Wife’s fine….kids are retarded”

and the famous one with Glenn McGrath to Sarwan: “What does Brian Lara’s dick taste like?”
Sarwan: “Ask your wife.”

:lol:

[LDG]

He did miss IBK though :lol:

Who?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yep

Sky sports especially have a vested interest in talking us up as challengers though, because the best league in the world which they frequently sell the premier league as being is going to be competitive and isn’t going to have one team canter to the title (and yes it’s far more likely City will do exactly that, than we pull off a Leicester City)

I think that comes down to Haaland, as good as De Bruyne is (and he is, still the best creative midfielder in the premier league by some distance) without a central focal point for attack…it was always possible to catch City on an off day. Now I just don’t see that happening….I’m not saying they will go the season unbeaten but I think they are definitely capable of it

Piss on that prediction :haha:

[Letters]

Piss on that prediction :haha:

It was certainly plausible, but there’s a reason that what we’ve done was unprecedented and hasn’t been repeated. You need to be very good to go unbeaten, obviously. But you need to be lucky too. And let’s face it we were in the Invincibles year. Pretty sure the Battle of Old Trafford was in that season, that penalty miss…that goes in and there goes the record before it even got going. And towards the end we got lucky away at Portsmouth. We scraped a 1-1, it was after we’d wrapped up the title and they had a chance with about 10 minutes left which was hit straight at Lehman, either side and there goes the record. Fine lines in football. City are going to be ridiculous season but you only need one slip.