Winter Transfer Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Time to start this off with the window opening next week.

PSV say they've agreed to sell Gakpo to Manchester United Liverpool.

Not sure what happened, the press had been talking up him going to Man Utd for weeks.

Horseface doing Man Utd dirty in the end. :bow:

As for us, Mudryk seems to be begging for a move. Posting on his instagram he was watching our game against West Ham. :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

We’ve apparently bid 55m for Mudryk but it sounds like there’s a long way to go to get it over the line.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I’m sure we can find the extra £1 from somewhere.

[dostoy]

Why didn't Arsenal go for Gakpo?

He is half the price of Mudryk and he can play next week.

Is Mudryk really worth 80 million?

[Ralpheroo72]

Apparently they want a fee similar what city paid for Grealish. Way too much for someone with his lack of experience.


Why didn't Arsenal go for Gakpo?

He is half the price of Mudryk and he can play next week.

Is Mudryk really worth 80 million?

[GP]

I think we should sign Bofa

[Marc Overmars]

Chelsea are looking to sign Enzo Fernandez for 106m :blink:

[GP]

Who??

[Marc Overmars]

Chelsea interested in Mudryk now. :rolleyes:

[selassie]

Chelsea interested in Mudryk now. :rolleyes:

Yeah I have just read that Shaktar have rejected our second offer due to Chelsea's interest in him. We offered 62 million for him. How much do they realistically want for this kid? I find it crazy that they are demanding mega money for a player who has literally emerged this season.

[Chippy]

Yeah I have just read that Shaktar have rejected our second offer due to Chelsea's interest in him. We offered 62 million for him. How much do they realistically want for this kid? I find it crazy that they are demanding mega money for a player who has literally emerged this season.

Yep, this is why I hate the Chavs.

We should walk away right now. He is not worth any more than that.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mudryk only wants us though from what I can see, this seems like bollocks.

[Chippy]

Mudryk only wants us though from what I can see, this seems like bollocks.

Mudryk might want to come to us, however, his club have the final say.

If the chavs offer £20m more than us, he is only going to Stamford Bridge.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think we should sign Bofa

Funny for a change. But they won't get you are taking the piss out of them - which is a shame, because it's justified.

Personally I still think we should spend X million on that Y bloke who I used to mention Z years ago. Maybe yo can even remember his name. I can't.

There's not a single player worth a fraction of their fee.

Better to find local kids who would kill their own mother to wear the shirt. But then agin, how would you fleece the incredibly stupid fans?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mudryk might want to come to us, however, his club have the final say.

If the chavs offer £20m more than us, he is only going to Stamford Bridge.

Not the case, players hold the power.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not the case, players hold the power.

They hold the Illusionary power. The fans could change that in a heartbeat.

But here they are saying we should pay more.

What is to be done?

[IBK]

Mudryk might want to come to us, however, his club have the final say.

If the chavs offer £20m more than us, he is only going to Stamford Bridge.

If they are going to pay ridiculous money, let him go. I would like to think that we have other 'Plan B' players under the radar. Don't want to see another Pepe situation at Arsenal, and the difference between what Shaktar want and what we are prepared to pay would buy us another player.

[Ralpheroo72]

Sky reporting that Shakhtar officials will be in London at the Chelsea v City game to thrash out a deal for Mudryk. That’s that, plan B needs to be invoked, if we have one.

[Chippy]

Sky reporting that Shakhtar officials will be in London at the Chelsea v City game to thrash out a deal for Mudryk. That’s that, plan B needs to be invoked, if we have one.

We have no plan B. We all know it.

Jesus will be like a new signing in late February ;)

[Mac76]

I know it's silly money being asked for, but if we can knock it down a bit, it's almost tempting to say we should go for the Joao Felix loan, just to get him in while we're short of ESR, Jesus and Nelson

[Chippy]

Not the case, players hold the power.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfers-mykhaylo-mudryk-chelsea-28891847

[Letters]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfers-mykhaylo-mudryk-chelsea-28891847

That's a nothing story which in no way refutes what Maccy said.
That whole article basically says - Arsenal aren't going to pay over the odds for him. Well of course we aren't.

[selassie]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfers-mykhaylo-mudryk-chelsea-28891847

It's down to Mudryk at the moment, he needs to tell Shaktar he will move to Arsenal only. Even though we are his first choice I suspect he would join Chelsea if we walk away. I agree with Arsenal, it makes no sense to get involved in a bidding war with Chelsea over a player who won't even be guaranteed first choice for us.

[selassie]

I know it's silly money being asked for, but if we can knock it down a bit, it's almost tempting to say we should go for the Joao Felix loan, just to get him in while we're short of ESR, Jesus and Nelson

We need to do something. Everything is great right now and I am fully behind Arteta and Edu, but they need to add to the squad this window if they are serious about us continuing to challenge.

[Niall_Quinn]

You all know that YOU are ultimately going to pay for whatever shit-kicker queer comes in? Right?

Unless you step away.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfers-mykhaylo-mudryk-chelsea-28891847

Look the comparisons with the Pepe deal is ridiculous and childish...we were sold a lemon (which can happen to anyone) ..lets move on from it.

A lot of people on here (and thankfully I was not one of them {team Zaha}) and in footballdom swore we had got the next best thing after Messi, so we did not overpay in the current reality due to the silly hype.

Foolishness would be for us to believe that every time we spend big (like big clubs are suppose to do) its going to be another lemon, because then we will leave all the Halaands and Bellinghams to the clubs who are serious about being big clubs.

Not getting Mudryk and allowing him to go to any of our rivals would be a failure...no one should disguise it.

Felix would be a plus, but I'm not sold that he would actually improve us.

Mudryk fits with the style of player Arteta has proven he can get the best of , thats why I am so sold on the signing.

However I must say I do believe there are other parts of the team that need to be strengthened far more but until the right player comes up, I can wait a bit.

[IBK]

Look the comparisons with the Pepe deal is ridiculous and childish...we were sold a lemon (which can happen to anyone) ..lets move on from it.



But they are not really that ridiculous are they? Pepe, like Mudryk was a winger who was an unknown quantity in the EPL, but had been outstanding at Lille - scoring 23 goals and registering 12 assists in 41 games in the season before we signed him. Pepe - like Mudryk appears to be now was sought after by other clubs. Pepe, like Mudryk would be - was a club record signing who represented a risk for AFC.

I accept that the big difference is that our manager at the time - Emery - did not want to sign him (he wanted Zaha), whereas Mudryk seems to have been identified by Arteta and Edu as a player who fits into the Arsenal project.

But the fact remains that Mudryk is young and relatively untested - particularly in our league - so he represents a risk. The question is not whether he would represent an exciting, and unedeniably promising signing but whether we should pay way over our valuation (with all the knock on issues that would represent) for a player who would not even be first choice in his position (at least initially). Young and untested players are usually cheaper because of this. For me, smashing our transfer record in a bidding war with the basket case that Chelsea is currently is something that needs to be considered very carefully, and if the club decides that this is not worth it, then I'm good with that.

[Marc Overmars]

Chelsea are apparently signing Joao Felix on loan.

Does their scouting network literally exist by copying everyone else?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He was moaning at everyone in the game against Barca last night.

You'd think exactly the last thing Chelsea need personality wise.

[GP]

Pushing 20m for a 6 month loan with no buy option.

Madness. Glad we're not getting involved in that.

[Letters]

Twats like Felix, like Felix.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

You'd think this would mean Chelsea are no longer trying to get Mudryk.

[IBK]

Pushing 20m for a 6 month loan with no buy option.

Madness. Glad we're not getting involved in that.

This. :good:

[Marc Overmars]

Chelsea are taking on his full salary and he’s also signing a new contract with Atleti to protect his value too.

Mugged off good and proper. As much as I would have liked him in the squad, I’m glad we avoided this deal.

[IBK]

Chelsea are taking on his full salary and he’s also signing a new contract with Atleti to protect his value too.

Mugged off good and proper. As much as I would have liked him in the squad, I’m glad we avoided this deal.

Yes - no option to buy - WTF! Glad this wasn't us.

[selassie]

But they are not really that ridiculous are they? Pepe, like Mudryk was a winger who was an unknown quantity in the EPL, but had been outstanding at Lille - scoring 23 goals and registering 12 assists in 41 games in the season before we signed him. Pepe - like Mudryk appears to be now was sought after by other clubs. Pepe, like Mudryk would be - was a club record signing who represented a risk for AFC.

I accept that the big difference is that our manager at the time - Emery - did not want to sign him (he wanted Zaha), whereas Mudryk seems to have been identified by Arteta and Edu as a player who fits into the Arsenal project.

But the fact remains that Mudryk is young and relatively untested - particularly in our league - so he represents a risk. The question is not whether he would represent an exciting, and unedeniably promising signing but whether we should pay way over our valuation (with all the knock on issues that would represent) for a player who would not even be first choice in his position (at least initially). Young and untested players are usually cheaper because of this. For me, smashing our transfer record in a bidding war with the basket case that Chelsea is currently is something that needs to be considered very carefully, and if the club decides that this is not worth it, then I'm good with that.

I agree. Mudryk if anything is not even established as Pepe was when we signed him. The difference with Mudryk is that he has performed at a really high level in CL this season. His ceiling looks a lot higher than Pepe's too. Despite all that I question the amount Shaktar want for him, to me it seems totally excessive considering we are his only suitors and he seems desperate to join us.

I think this deal will get done, from the bits I've been reading, it seems the issue is related to the upfront fee v add-ons which I am sure will get resolved but most likely not until the end of the window.

[selassie]

Chelsea are taking on his full salary and he’s also signing a new contract with Atleti to protect his value too.

Mugged off good and proper. As much as I would have liked him in the squad, I’m glad we avoided this deal.

Yep, Chelsea have been taken to the cleaners. Their transfer strategy if you even want to call it that is a complete and utter shambles IMO. They are just picking up random players, good ones mind, but I don't see how these players all fit into their system. Felix is similar to Havertz IMO.

[Letters]

11 Million Euros for a loan till the end of the season?! :haha:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Do we have any updates on Mudryk....or any other signing, the wait is becoming irritating.

[Mac76]

We need more bodies in that squad, even if they are just loans (although not on Felix terms obvs)

[dostoy]

Do we have any updates on Mudryk....or any other signing, the wait is becoming irritating.

It will be the 30th of January at the earliest, probably the 31st.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mudryk seems like it is done now.

Everywhere worth noting seems to have this as the consensus.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Do we have any updates on Mudryk....or any other signing, the wait is becoming irritating.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/sabrina-dangelo-joins-arsenal

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/34534/12786029/chelsea-in-talks-with-psv-for-madueke

Is this because Joao Felix is suspended now?

Fucking insane.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://twitter.com/FCShakhtar_eng/status/1614176435094097920?t=HAUHCuAMfS7esD4c4qDSTg&s=19

Interesting. Bit of a weird tweet if it is anything good for us.

[Mac76]

Almost over the line it seems

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mudryk wins Player of the Year. :lol:

That was the news.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Almost over the line it seems

Yes it is, for Chelsea

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Oh well. :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1614228505948037120?s=20&t=kQT44qPfo83CvY-YLrVQOg

It's on!

I fucking hate transfer windows.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1614228505948037120?s=20&t=kQT44qPfo83CvY-YLrVQOg

It's on!

I fucking hate transfer windows.

Chelsea have agreed a fee for him, that’s an old tweet

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Oh so it is, I thought it said 6m ago not hours.

:rose:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Its on sky sports too....if true, Arsenal FC is a joke.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12783393/mykhailo-mudryk-chelsea-agree-85m-transfer-deal-for-arsenal-target-and-shakhtar-donetsk-winger

[HCZ_Reborn]

Its on sky sports too....if true, Arsenal FC is a joke.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12783393/mykhailo-mudryk-chelsea-agree-85m-transfer-deal-for-arsenal-target-and-shakhtar-donetsk-winger

A joke for not paying 85 million?

[Ralpheroo72]

It’s normal practice that when you go shopping that you pay the asking price, I think we missed a trick here, wasted two weeks and are back at square one. No one is available for normal money.

[Letters]

It’s difficult. It does seem insane spending these sorts of amounts but that’s the market these days.
One thing’s for sure, we are extremely unlikely to win the league with the current squad.
The only slight counterpoint to that is the current team do seem very tight, adding the wrong person and personality could mess that up.

[Chippy]

Its on sky sports too....if true, Arsenal FC is a joke.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12783393/mykhailo-mudryk-chelsea-agree-85m-transfer-deal-for-arsenal-target-and-shakhtar-donetsk-winger
I honestly thought this club had changed since the "£40m plus a pound" days.
We haven't, we are still the bloody same.
Arteta must be furious. He will go to City once Pep is sacked. Can't blame him tbh.

[GP]

This guy has 30 first team games in his whole career. 100m Euros for that? Chelsea can have him.

[Munchies]

Rather have Zaha

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

A joke for not paying 85 million?
No, a joke for being ridiculous and having hypocrites associated with the club who half heartedly spew this ridiculous garbage.

I am really angry right now, because honestly I thought we had turned the page this year i.e. decided to compete like the proper big club we are.... but this saga just shows this will probably be a fluke year and we will go back to being the "big club with a small club" mentality pretty soon.

Not to bore anyone, our final offer apparently is 95m euro, Chelsea's is 5m euro more.

We have been scouting this kid for almost a year and have turned his head to such an extent that he has repeated over and over again that he wants Arsenal(still did so yesterday), despite being clearly inimical to his interests and that of his club.

Currently he is the hottest young prospect in Europe and from what I have seen from the boy so far, he's going to be a name we are all going to remember for a long time.

More important than my assessment of the kid's talent is that the people we pay salaries to handle this sort of thing know this and agree with it, thus the reason for the protracted soap opera we have witnessed.

I have said it a thousand times over the almost 2 decades we've been on these different fora, true competition is about doing whatever it takes to win (obviously within reason) and competing with all the resources you have available (you f*cking don't hold back). Clearly anyone who thinks being successful in this sport (or any other) is about only competing on the pitch is obviously ridiculous and I will say it over and over again.

An Arsenal fan who chooses to deny our history and thinks we got to being top dawg by always doing the "right thing" or approaching things in the "right manner" is clearly a hypocrite.

Chelsea are only competing and doing what we use to do when we had people with a clear vision running the club, this season might be a write off for them (not sure that's even true, look at Man U), but they will be back where they belong as long as jokers keep filling this club.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This guy has 30 first team games in his whole career. 100m Euros for that? Chelsea can have him.

Where were you when we corrupted fotballdom and paid 12m for a 16 year old kid who hadn't finished school (the highest transfer fee at that time was 30m for Shevchenko)?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/2364234/arsenal-complete-walcott-deal

https://www.goal.com/en-ng/news/man-utd-failed-bale-bid-of-3-4m-burley-reveals-arsenal-move-walcott-blocked-deal/qpbuxn078njz1qm0lmt4cwirt

Yeah, probably loving the trajectory of where it seemed the club was going. :I miss Dein:

[Chippy]

No, a joke for being ridiculous and having hypocrites associated with the club who half heartedly spew this ridiculous garbage.

I am really angry right now, because honestly I thought we had turned the page this year i.e. decided to compete like the proper big club we are.... but this saga just shows this will probably be a fluke year and we will go back to being the "big club with a small club" mentality pretty soon.

Not to bore anyone, our final offer apparently is 95m euro, Chelsea's is 5m euro more.

We have been scouting this kid for almost a year and have turned his head to such an extent that he has repeated over and over again that he wants Arsenal(still did so yesterday), despite being clearly inimical to his interests and that of his club.

Currently he is the hottest young prospect in Europe and from what I have seen from the boy so far, he's going to be a name we are all going to remember for a long time.

More important than my assessment of the kid's talent is that the people we pay salaries to handle this sort of thing know this and agree with it, thus the reason for the protracted soap opera we have witnessed.

I have said it a thousand times over the almost 2 decades we've been on these different fora, true competition is about doing whatever it takes to win (obviously within reason) and competing with all the resources you have available (you f*cking don't hold back). Clearly anyone who thinks being successful in this sport (or any other) is about only competing on the pitch is obviously ridiculous and I will say it over and over again.

An Arsenal fan who chooses to deny our history and thinks we got to being top dawg by always doing the "right thing" or approaching things in the "right manner" is clearly a hypocrite.

Chelsea are only competing and doing what we use to do when we had people with a clear vision running the club, this season might be a write off for them (not sure that's even true, look at Man U), but they will be back where they belong as long as jokers keep filling this club.

:gp:
Fucking perfect in fact.
I said earlier. I thought our club had changed. But no.

[Marc Overmars]

Bit of a balls up tbh.

[Letters]

Chelsea are only competing and doing what we use to do when we had people with a clear vision running the club
I agree with a fair amount of your post but not this part.
Having (against my better judgement) watched All or Nothing, it’s clear there’s a strategy and plan for the club. And there’s been clear improvement as a result.
It does feel like we’ve made a mess of this one though, and injuries are pretty likely to cost us if we don’t sign someone in this window.

[GP]

Imagine thinking Chelsea have a clear strategy :lol:

It's the most scattergun approach I've ever seen.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Maybe we can get Chelsea to sign Maguire if we go for him.

[Marc Overmars]

Chelsea are jokers but the fact this guy has been wetting himself over Arsenal for weeks and we still couldn’t get a deal over the line?

This is poor regardless of what you think about the money involved and his lack of experience.

This is a player we wanted, who also wanted us.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Imagine thinking Chelsea have a clear strategy :lol:

It's the most scattergun approach I've ever seen.
Man, I never took you for being naive or maybe you are just pretending.....anyway I'll try my best to make this short (I'll probably fail).

When Abramovich came in (and killed football according to some), he knew what he wanted i.e. success, but more importantly success as fast as possible (maybe he had a crystal ball and foresaw that Putin and Ukraine would cut short his fun...who knows ).

Anyway he did so by just cutting through the bullshit and buying the best players and staff available...I think we all agree this has been Chelsea's modus operandi ever since.

Now though Chelsea had money to spend, they didn't have the time to build or acquire the scouting network that both Man U and us had used years to perfect....so initially they were always at a disadvantage when it came to young players.

But that all changed after the Mikel Obi saga in 2005. Mikel (then supposedly the second best young player in the world after Messi) and his club had agreed a deal with Man U ,who even presented Mikel at their club, only for him to be "kidnapped" and somehow find his way holed up in some dodgy hotel in London giving press conferences that he was forced to sign for Man U and only wanted to play for Chelsea.

The rest is history we all know.

The point is Chelsea quickly learnt from the success of that debacle; that the easiest way to build their all conquering team, is not only to buy the best players available wether you need them or not (e.g Salah and De Bruyne) , but always show interest in any player your rivals are interested in and hijack the deal at the last moment if possible ,strengthening your club and weakening theirs (even Klop is partaking in these dark arts now lol).

A bit pathetic, but really really effective. Do you remember who was linked with Hazard for years originally?

I mean they've done it to us twice in January recently but let me take you further back to show you how effective it can be.

2015, Chelsea are champions of England (Jose's second coming), they spend about 65m in the transfer market for the upcoming season (stealing none of their rival's players) and proceed to have a bomb of a season (finish 10th) where they don't qualify for any european football at all (1st time in a decade).

This season also happens to be the season everyone thought we would win the league before somehow managing to come second to a well oiled Leicester.

Who remembers Chelsea's response that year? I mean who they bought just before pre season started?

Well it only happened to be the guy Arsenal had been doing all the leg work for(as usual), chasing for months to fill a big gap we had recognised for ages in our team. IIRC he was a short guy who also happened to be Leicester's fan favourite. Similarly we had turned his head and he only wanted to play for us. Oh I found a link.

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/kante-rejects-new-leicester-deal-with-arsenal-his-preference

Yes Kante.

We showed interest only to pull out at the last stage, refusing to compete with Chelsea despite meeting his buy out clause, because we were "suspicious of payments to be made to his agents". Ah that sounds like us, I mean someone needs to be holier than the Pope! We officially pull out and identify a world beating alternative whose name would come to be known as Granit "I.Am.Better.Than.Kante" Xhaka!!

Fast forward to the end of the season, Chelsea win the league ( while breaking the record for the highest number of wins in a season) and finish runners up in the FA Cup. Kante is Chelsea's and the premier league's player of the season. Leicester trade places with Chelsea by breaking thier record and finishing 12th (i.e worst performance of a reigning champion). Oh and the mighty Arsenal, led by our "bungless" hero Xhaka, we finish 5th and start our sojourn of never qualifying for the CL again.

But at least we kept our morality!!!

Our hero ( and chief pretender) AW, would later say of Kante many years later , after he singlehandedly wins the CL for Chelsea:

"We have seen a man who is above everybody else, N'Golo Kante".

I really hope he won't be saying the same thing soon about Mudryk in a Chelsea shirt.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I agree with a fair amount of your post but not this part.
Having (against my better judgement) watched All or Nothing, it’s clear there’s a strategy and plan for the club. And there’s been clear improvement as a result.
It does feel like we’ve made a mess of this one though, and injuries are pretty likely to cost us if we don’t sign someone in this window.

Well I haven't gone against my better judgement to watch the piece of propaganda yet....but who knows, if this disappointment doesn't kill me and we somehow manage to win the league, I might just try to see if the club can convince me the way they have convinced you.

Though I doubt it, and honestly I just wish I could roll back time and give the club to people who care and want to win :Dein.All.Is.Forgiven:

[Ralpheroo72]

The amounts that those cunts have spent just show that the fair play rules are an absolute joke. I don’t see why clubs worry about them, because they seem to mean fuck all.

[selassie]

The whole Mudryk saga has been frustrating from the get go. We clearly liked him a lot as a player but were not prepared to meet Shaktar’s valuation. It is what it is. I wonder if we have any alternatives lined up? Are we going to improve other areas of the squad? Doubts are starting to creep back in now about our abilities to close deals and identify alternative targets.

[selassie]

Chelsea are jokers but the fact this guy has been wetting himself over Arsenal for weeks and we still couldn’t get a deal over the line?

This is poor regardless of what you think about the money involved and his lack of experience.

This is a player we wanted, who also wanted us.

This is the bit that disappoints me which makes me question we played a big part in this deal not progressing.

I understand that we don’t have a bottomless pit of money, but I don’t understand how we couldn’t close this deal when essentially we were the only club in talks to sign him and Mudryk appeared almost desperate to join us. If it really was to do with the valuation of a player then we move on and approach our next target. If Mudryk was our number 1 target and we have nobody else lined up then it begs the question to why we didn’t do more to close the deal.

[IBK]

This is the bit that disappoints me which makes me question we played a big part in this deal not progressing.

I understand that we don’t have a bottomless pit of money, but I don’t understand how we couldn’t close this deal when essentially we were the only club in talks to sign him and Mudryk appeared almost desperate to join us. If it really was to do with the valuation of a player then we move on and approach our next target. If Mudryk was our number 1 target and we have nobody else lined up then it begs the question to why we didn’t do more to close the deal.

I'm frustrated too - but the reports were clear. Shaktar was basing Mudryk's valuation on the Anthony deal - which saw an EPL club in turmoil and desperate bidding way over the odds for a player worth half of what they paid for him. Shaktar are well known to be hardballers, and they were never going to close the deal with us while there was the possibility of a bidding war with the likes of Chelsea who are indeed desperate and don't care how much they spend - which is what came to pass. The fact that this has all played out very publicly tells us all we need to know about Shaktar's intentions.

We have all criticised the way Arsenal have made some huge signings only for them to fail and the players involved to become unsellable at their proper value. We have lamented getting a reputation for being low-balled when it comes to transfers out of the club. Well for me the same applies to incoming signings. As soon as we get a reputation for paying well over the odds for players, this will affect our ability to find value in the market. It could also affect the squad building and unity with the players that we have already. So I can understand that the long term stability of the club (which has been hard won over the last cople of seasons) comes before signing an exciting yet EPL unproven player for the kind of money Chelsea are paying for him.

I think the 'criticism' should be of the fact that we are in league competing against clubs with bottomless resources rather than the club not getting this transfer over the line.

That said, if we don't have a Plan B to strengthen what must now be regarded as a title push, then that is the worry here. There are never any guarantees, but if we bring in noone then we are starting to look at a similar situation to last year when we could narrowly lose out (on the title rather than CL places) for the sake of decisivenes in January. I don't know who is available for us in the positions we need to strenghten, but logic says that there must be someone available who fits our plans...

[Mac76]

No, a joke for being ridiculous and having hypocrites associated with the club who half heartedly spew this ridiculous garbage.

I am really angry right now, because honestly I thought we had turned the page this year i.e. decided to compete like the proper big club we are.... but this saga just shows this will probably be a fluke year and we will go back to being the "big club with a small club" mentality pretty soon.

Not to bore anyone, our final offer apparently is 95m euro, Chelsea's is 5m euro more.

We have been scouting this kid for almost a year and have turned his head to such an extent that he has repeated over and over again that he wants Arsenal(still did so yesterday), despite being clearly inimical to his interests and that of his club.

Currently he is the hottest young prospect in Europe and from what I have seen from the boy so far, he's going to be a name we are all going to remember for a long time.

More important than my assessment of the kid's talent is that the people we pay salaries to handle this sort of thing know this and agree with it, thus the reason for the protracted soap opera we have witnessed.

I have said it a thousand times over the almost 2 decades we've been on these different fora, true competition is about doing whatever it takes to win (obviously within reason) and competing with all the resources you have available (you f*cking don't hold back). Clearly anyone who thinks being successful in this sport (or any other) is about only competing on the pitch is obviously ridiculous and I will say it over and over again.

An Arsenal fan who chooses to deny our history and thinks we got to being top dawg by always doing the "right thing" or approaching things in the "right manner" is clearly a hypocrite.

Chelsea are only competing and doing what we use to do when we had people with a clear vision running the club, this season might be a write off for them (not sure that's even true, look at Man U), but they will be back where they belong as long as jokers keep filling this club.

This

Yes it's a lot of money but we have a one-off chance to take advantage of the temporary difficulties of many other top six sides and finish top - we've wasted time and looked unambitious - fine to turn down Joao Felix but should have gone for this guy (although there has to be a stopping point so if Chelsea had raised again maybe that's it)

It's going to be awkward for this guy at Chelsea though, having talked so much about Arsenal :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Chelsea are jokers but the fact this guy has been wetting himself over Arsenal for weeks and we still couldn’t get a deal over the line?

This is poor regardless of what you think about the money involved and his lack of experience.

This is a player we wanted, who also wanted us.

But is it?

I’d argue it was naive to rely on the player showing he wanted to join us, he clearly wants to play for a bigger club than Shatkah and both Arsenal and Chelsea are that.

But not actually sure what we could have done short of paying them what they asked for.

Chelsea have including the summer paid almost £350 million on new players, apart from anything else it hasn’t done them much good….and there’s nothing there that represents a transfer strategy.

Douglas Luiz was less about the money and more about the fact that Villa were confident he’d sign a new deal (which he did)

When you look at Gabriel Martinelli right now, look at Odegaard right now….and you think of what they cost us. No I’m not the biggest fan of Arteta or Edu, but it’s clear we are getting something right.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm frustrated too - but the reports were clear. Shaktar was basing Mudryk's valuation on the Anthony deal - which saw an EPL club in turmoil and desperate bidding way over the odds for a player worth half of what they paid for him. Shaktar are well known to be hardballers, and they were never going to close the deal with us while there was the possibility of a bidding war with the likes of Chelsea who are indeed desperate and don't care how much they spend - which is what came to pass. The fact that this has all played out very publicly tells us all we need to know about Shaktar's intentions.

We have all criticised the way Arsenal have made some huge signings only for them to fail and the players involved to become unsellable at their proper value. We have lamented getting a reputation for being low-balled when it comes to transfers out of the club. Well for me the same applies to incoming signings. As soon as we get a reputation for paying well over the odds for players, this will affect our ability to find value in the market. It could also affect the squad building and unity with the players that we have already. So I can understand that the long term stability of the club (which has been hard won over the last cople of seasons) comes before signing an exciting yet EPL unproven player for the kind of money Chelsea are paying for him.

I think the 'criticism' should be of the fact that we are in league competing against clubs with bottomless resources rather than the club not getting this transfer over the line.

That said, if we don't have a Plan B to strengthen what must now be regarded as a title push, then that is the worry here. There are never any guarantees, but if we bring in noone then we are starting to look at a similar situation to last year when we could narrowly lose out (on the title rather than CL places) for the sake of decisivenes in January. I don't know who is available for us in the positions we need to strenghten, but logic says that there must be someone available who fits our plans...

This :gp:

[selassie]

I'm frustrated too - but the reports were clear. Shaktar was basing Mudryk's valuation on the Anthony deal - which saw an EPL club in turmoil and desperate bidding way over the odds for a player worth half of what they paid for him. Shaktar are well known to be hardballers, and they were never going to close the deal with us while there was the possibility of a bidding war with the likes of Chelsea who are indeed desperate and don't care how much they spend - which is what came to pass. The fact that this has all played out very publicly tells us all we need to know about Shaktar's intentions.

We have all criticised the way Arsenal have made some huge signings only for them to fail and the players involved to become unsellable at their proper value. We have lamented getting a reputation for being low-balled when it comes to transfers out of the club. Well for me the same applies to incoming signings. As soon as we get a reputation for paying well over the odds for players, this will affect our ability to find value in the market. It could also affect the squad building and unity with the players that we have already. So I can understand that the long term stability of the club (which has been hard won over the last cople of seasons) comes before signing an exciting yet EPL unproven player for the kind of money Chelsea are paying for him.

I think the 'criticism' should be of the fact that we are in league competing against clubs with bottomless resources rather than the club not getting this transfer over the line.

That said, if we don't have a Plan B to strengthen what must now be regarded as a title push, then that is the worry here. There are never any guarantees, but if we bring in noone then we are starting to look at a similar situation to last year when we could narrowly lose out (on the title rather than CL places) for the sake of decisivenes in January. I don't know who is available for us in the positions we need to strenghten, but logic says that there must be someone available who fits our plans...

Yeah I hear you IBK.

If it was to do with valuation and that we always knew we were not prepared to meet it, and that Shaktar were standing firm on their valuation, then we should have walked away weeks ago and made progress on alternative targets?

The reality of the situation is that we are a Saka or Martinelli injury away from our season collapsing, as we are with our options or lack of them in Central Midfield if Partey or dare I say even Xhaka breaks down.

If it's not Mudryk, then it needs to be someone else, we desperately need adding quality to the squad ASAP.

P.S. Been reading this morning we have gone back in for Raphinha, apparently Barca want rid.

[dostoy]

Ferran Torres is who I would go for.

Young and ex Man City as well.

[GP]

Man, I never took you for being naive or maybe you are just pretending.....anyway I'll try my best to make this short (I'll probably fail).

When Abramovich came in (and killed football according to some), he knew what he wanted i.e. success, but more importantly success as fast as possible (maybe he had a crystal ball and foresaw that Putin and Ukraine would cut short his fun...who knows ).

Anyway he did so by just cutting through the bullshit and buying the best players and staff available...I think we all agree this has been Chelsea's modus operandi ever since.

Now though Chelsea had money to spend, they didn't have the time to build or acquire the scouting network that both Man U and us had used years to perfect....so initially they were always at a disadvantage when it came to young players.

But that all changed after the Mikel Obi saga in 2005. Mikel (then supposedly the second best young player in the world after Messi) and his club had agreed a deal with Man U ,who even presented Mikel at their club, only for him to be "kidnapped" and somehow find his way holed up in some dodgy hotel in London giving press conferences that he was forced to sign for Man U and only wanted to play for Chelsea.

The rest is history we all know.

The point is Chelsea quickly learnt from the success of that debacle; that the easiest way to build their all conquering team, is not only to buy the best players available wether you need them or not (e.g Salah and De Bruyne) , but always show interest in any player your rivals are interested in and hijack the deal at the last moment if possible ,strengthening your club and weakening theirs (even Klop is partaking in these dark arts now lol).

A bit pathetic, but really really effective. Do you remember who was linked with Hazard for years originally?

I mean they've done it to us twice in January recently but let me take you further back to show you how effective it can be.

2015, Chelsea are champions of England (Jose's second coming), they spend about 65m in the transfer market for the upcoming season (stealing none of their rival's players) and proceed to have a bomb of a season (finish 10th) where they don't qualify for any european football at all (1st time in a decade).

This season also happens to be the season everyone thought we would win the league before somehow managing to come second to a well oiled Leicester.

Who remembers Chelsea's response that year? I mean who they bought just before pre season started?

Well it only happened to be the guy Arsenal had been doing all the leg work for(as usual), chasing for months to fill a big gap we had recognised for ages in our team. IIRC he was a short guy who also happened to be Leicester's fan favourite. Similarly we had turned his head and he only wanted to play for us. Oh I found a link.

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/kante-rejects-new-leicester-deal-with-arsenal-his-preference

Yes Kante.

We showed interest only to pull out at the last stage, refusing to compete with Chelsea despite meeting his buy out clause, because we were "suspicious of payments to be made to his agents". Ah that sounds like us, I mean someone needs to be holier than the Pope! We officially pull out and identify a world beating alternative whose name would come to be known as Granit "I.Am.Better.Than.Kante" Xhaka!!

Fast forward to the end of the season, Chelsea win the league ( while breaking the record for the highest number of wins in a season) and finish runners up in the FA Cup. Kante is Chelsea's and the premier league's player of the season. Leicester trade places with Chelsea by breaking thier record and finishing 12th (i.e worst performance of a reigning champion). Oh and the mighty Arsenal, led by our "bungless" hero Xhaka, we finish 5th and start our sojourn of never qualifying for the CL again.

But at least we kept our morality!!!

Our hero ( and chief pretender) AW, would later say of Kante many years later , after he singlehandedly wins the CL for Chelsea:

"We have seen a man who is above everybody else, N'Golo Kante".

I really hope he won't be saying the same thing soon about Mudryk in a Chelsea shirt.

That's a lot of words to say nothing but cry a lot.

[selassie]

Ferran Torres is who I would go for.

Young and ex Man City as well.

I'd take any of those wide guys Barca are apparently listening to offers for....in the following order

Rapinha (Based on him knowing the league)

Ferran Torres (Based on him knowing the league)

Fati (He has the biggest potential of all them IMO, though has stalled on his development due to injuries)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

That's a lot of words to say nothing but cry a lot.

Yeah.... probably should have just said their scattergun approach in the last 20 years has only led to them winning 5 EPLs, umm 4 European Trophies, ahh countless players and nights their fans couldn't forget in a decade; while effectively usurping us as Top Dawg in these parts......but I'm sure you'll be able to counter by listing the excitement our carefully thought out meticulous approach has elicited in you and the rest of goonerdom.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah.... probably should have just said their scattergun approach in the last 20 years has only led to them winning 5 EPLs, umm 4 European Trophies, ahh countless players and nights their fans couldn't forget in a decade; while effectively usurping us as Top Dawg in these parts......but I'm sure you'll be able to counter by listing the excitement our carefully thought out meticulous approach has elicited in you and the rest of goonerdom.

All their achievements have been bought at the largesse of owners. You can bemoan all you like the fact that we’ve not adopted that model, but it is what it is. If we’d lost out to someone like Liverpool who we seem to largely be trying to emulate to various degrees I’d see your point, but Todd Boehly is doing drunk silly spending which you imagine will catch up with them long term.
Listen I get the disappointment I really do, but the main difference between what we offered and what Chelsea offered is that they offered 60 odd million cash up front, unless the Kroenkes are prepared to do that for us…I can’t see how it comes down to a failed negotiation strategy.
You can complain that the Kroenkes are not giving us enough funds to compete but that’s a different matter entirely

That our alternative target appears to be Raphinia, suggests there is a downside to clubs spending beyond their means in the hope of short term success. For all we know, we might end up with Mudryk in a year or two because Chelsea are having to do a fire sale.

[Mac76]

There's a reputational aspect too, if we don't get Raphina or someone else good we don't look serious about being a top side, we really need to get him or Torres over the line now

[HCZ_Reborn]

There's a reputational aspect too, if we don't get Raphina or someone else good we don't look serious about being a top side, we really need to get him or Torres over the line now

Whilst I think we need to make a signing, the reputation thing is bollocks…who the fuck cares? It’s not kids in a playground. Plus rather be thought of as a club that won’t spend big to win things (as if Mudryk was going to be the difference between us winning the league or not) rather than a club that other clubs see coming that they can offload their shite on for ridiculous money.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

All their achievements have been bought at the largesse of owners. You can bemoan all you like the fact that we’ve not adopted that model, but it is what it is. If we’d lost out to someone like Liverpool who we seem to largely be trying to emulate to various degrees I’d see your point, but Todd Boehly is doing drunk silly spending which you imagine will catch up with them long term.
Listen I get the disappointment I really do, but the main difference between what we offered and what Chelsea offered is that they offered 60 odd million cash up front, unless the Kroenkes are prepared to do that for us…I can’t see how it comes down to a failed negotiation strategy.
You can complain that the Kroenkes are not giving us enough funds to compete but that’s a different matter entirely

That our alternative target appears to be Raphinia, suggests there is a downside to clubs spending beyond their means in the hope of short term success. For all we know, we might end up with Mudryk in a year or two because Chelsea are having to do a fire sale.

More examples of the delusional hypocritical bullshit up here.

When you've gotten off your high horse, you can educate me how our first period of dominance in the 30's came from always doing the right thing and being the moral compass of English football.

You can also tell me how much you hated Graham's success because he took bungs. Then you can tell me how annoyed you got when AW started scouring the globe looking for cheap undervalued international (mostly African) talent to fill an ENGLISH premier league club, not giving a damn about the other countries or leagues they came from ( we even had the audacity to buy a feeder club in Belgium to make our Trans Atlantic rape easier). Then tell me how angry you got when we were one of the first clubs to field a non British starting 11.

Then you can go on an tell me how disgusted you felt by every goal Walcott scored when we took the innocence out of youth football in this country.

Ah don't forget to also point out how you feel that every goal Nketiah scores gives you more joy and pleasure than anything you witnessed from our break the record signings like Sanchez, Ozil, Laca and Auba.

Please give the f*king hypocrisy a rest.

For a long period in time we use to compete with all we had (f*ck, even resources we didn't have), we don't anymore, thats the summary of our years under Kronke, pretending to compete.

If you're happy with that, then good on you.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

There's a reputational aspect too, if we don't get Raphina or someone else good we don't look serious about being a top side, we really need to get him or Torres over the line now

We'll still pay over the odds for both players and they are not really what the club wanted initally....its the Pepe mistake all over again.

Personally, if I had my way, I wouldn't waste money on a winger anymore...the kid was special and we lost that opportunity so no need to over compensate.

HCZ seems to think you don't win the league based on one players contribution :) (Vieira, Vieira, Viera...) God forbid but lets see what happens when we don't have Partey for a long stretch.

IMO, we should go all out to strengthen the midfield and get him proper cover. That is our weakest position. That and another creative number 10.

[HCZ_Reborn]

More examples of the delusional hypocritical bullshit up here.

When you've gotten off your high horse, you can educate me how our first period of dominance in the 30's came from always doing the right thing and being the moral compass of English football.

You can also tell me how much you hated Graham's success because he took bungs. Then you can tell me how annoyed you got when AW started scouring the globe looking for cheap undervalued international (mostly African) talent to fill an ENGLISH premier league club, not giving a damn about the other countries or leagues they came from ( we even had the audacity to buy a feeder club in Belgium to make our Trans Atlantic rape easier). Then tell me how angry you got when we were one of the first clubs to field a non British starting 11.

Then you can go on an tell me how disgusted you felt by every goal Walcott scored when we took the innocence out of youth football in this country.

Ah don't forget to also point out how you feel that every goal Nketiah scores gives you more joy and pleasure than anything you witnessed from our break the record signings like Sanchez, Ozil, Laca and Auba.

Please give the f*king hypocrisy a rest.

For a long period in time we use to compete with all we had (f*ck, even resources we didn't have), we don't anymore, thats the summary of our years under Kronke, pretending to compete.

If you're happy with that, then good on you.

It’s not about the Moral high ground. You’re reading into something which I’m not said

I’ve not said it’s a good thing we don’t have a money is no issue benefactor but it’s a fact. And bemoaning that jars with the reality of the situation.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We'll still pay over the odds for both players and they are not really what the club wanted initally....its the Pepe mistake all over again.

Personally, if I had my way, I wouldn't waste money on a winger anymore...the kid was special and we lost that opportunity so no need to over compensate.

HCZ seems to think you don't win the league based on one players contribution :) (Vieira, Vieira, Viera...) God forbid but lets see what happens when we don't have Partey for a long stretch.

IMO, we should go all out to strengthen the midfield and get him proper cover. That is our weakest position. That and another creative number 10.

Mate you’re going off on one and claiming things I’ve simply not said

I didn’t say one player is not instrumental to winning the league, I said that it’s unlikely Mudryk is that player and is not in fact an investment for the future (which I absolutely believe he was, and whilst it’s disappointing to lose out to Chelsea…I don’t believe the player was being bought for this seasons title push)

[selassie]

Yeah.... probably should have just said their scattergun approach in the last 20 years has only led to them winning 5 EPLs, umm 4 European Trophies, ahh countless players and nights their fans couldn't forget in a decade; while effectively usurping us as Top Dawg in these parts......but I'm sure you'll be able to counter by listing the excitement our carefully thought out meticulous approach has elicited in you and the rest of goonerdom.

Chelsea's approach in the transfer market now is wildly different to their approach when they were truly successful, I.E Winning titles regularly. Look at the mess Chelsea made with the Fernandez deal. Look at the number of attacking players they have brought in since the summer, their approach in the market is "hit and hope", they are all over the place with their recruitment, none of it makes much sense TBH.

I get the frustration with Arsenal in the market, but we are where we are and as long as we sought alternative options then I have confidence in Arteta and Edu, they have got a lot right in the market over the past few seasons.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It’s not about the Moral high ground. You’re reading into something which I’m not said

I’ve not said it’s a good thing we don’t have a money is no issue benefactor but it’s a fact. And bemoaning that jars with the reality of the situation.

The problem isn't money, its the current nauseating culture that permeates this club i.e. you don't have to go the extra mile to be successful.

Are you aware that it was Chelsea's co-owner that flew to meet the owner of Shakatar to wrap this deal up on Friday? Do you know if you add the net worth of both him and Bohely it still wouldn't be up to Kronke's net worth, let alone his wife? This is after splashing 12m plus on a loan deal for 5 months. I am almost 100% certain that it was the red card Felix got that made them complete this deal, despite knowing the player wanted to come to us.

This "madness" as you call it, is what I miss about having passionate or goal oriented people running this club..."tell me what you want and I'll give it to you", this is what AW use to say Dein did for him.

Honestly, I feel Kronke can be the way he is because he met a culture in this club that enables it i.e. "we are fine where we are and only interested in doing things our way"...thats not the way the world works.

As much as I blame Kronke and the half hearted clowns he has hired, I do know a big part of our fanbase is responsible for this culture also.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Mate you’re going off on one and claiming things I’ve simply not said

I didn’t say one player is not instrumental to winning the league, I said that it’s unlikely Mudryk is that player and is not in fact an investment for the future (which I absolutely believe he was, and whilst it’s disappointing to lose out to Chelsea…I don’t believe the player was being bought for this seasons title push)

Fair enough then.

[Ollie the Optimist]

He has signed for Chelsea on an 8 & half year deal and by some accounts, for over 150k a week wages.

Hes played 65 games and mainly in a Ukrainian league.

Hes clearly talented but that money on that length a deal? I think we are better off out

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Eight and a half year contract for Mudryk.

Is that allowed?

[Marc Overmars]

Surely Chelsea have bent some FFP rulings somewhere here? Absolutely insane expenditure under Boehly.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

They're buying Nkunku in the summer too. :wacko:

[LDG]

Fucksake.

[Letters]

Surely Chelsea have bent some FFP rulings somewhere here? Absolutely insane expenditure under Boehly.

Those rules are completely toothless.
The suggestion that we should pay twice what someone’s worth just because another club will is mental.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I just don't get where the motivation is to perform when on a contract of that length. It's nuts.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I just don't get where the motivation is to perform when on a contract of that length. It's nuts.

We're offering Saka 200k a week and he is yet to sign.

This deal just means Chelsea are going to build their club around him and thats fair play to them.

I've seen more talent in him than I saw in Hazard when we were all chasing him.

He'll be a success and will also be a marketing coup.

[Mac76]

Whilst I think we need to make a signing, the reputation thing is bollocks…who the fuck cares? It’s not kids in a playground. Plus rather be thought of as a club that won’t spend big to win things (as if Mudryk was going to be the difference between us winning the league or not) rather than a club that other clubs see coming that they can offload their shite on for ridiculous money.

Everyone knows our squad's too thin, that's the problem, we ran out of steam last season because he played people like Saka in every game, the same will happen unless we deepen the squad. Ok, we'll have Jesus, Nelson coming back and ESR is now available, but we need more IMO

[selassie]

Surely Chelsea have bent some FFP rulings somewhere here? Absolutely insane expenditure under Boehly.

Those long deals they keep giving out to their new signings is what is allowing them to get around FFP. Their last 3 signings have been on 7.5 year deals apparently.

[Chippy]

Everyone knows our squad's too thin, that's the problem, we ran out of steam last season because he played people like Daka in eberu gamr, the same will happen unless we deepen the squad. Ok, we'll have Jesus, Nelson coming back and ESR is now available, but we need more IMO
The problem is, there is no plan B after Mudryk. The same old thing wil happen. We will get to March and injuries will fuck us over.

[selassie]

Everyone knows our squad's too thin, that's the problem, we ran out of steam last season because he played people like Daka in eberu gamr, the same will happen unless we deepen the squad. Ok, we'll have Jesus, Nelson coming back and ESR is now available, but we need more IMO

Aye, we have to do as much in our power to add depth and quality to the squad this window. If we fail to do so then realistically speaking the current squad will not be able to manage a PL title challenge and Europa league challenge IMO, injuries and fatigue will kick in like they did last season, it's inevitable. I personally believe we need a Wide player and Central Midfielder (Partey cover).

[IBK]

Yeah I hear you IBK.

If it was to do with valuation and that we always knew we were not prepared to meet it, and that Shaktar were standing firm on their valuation, then we should have walked away weeks ago and made progress on alternative targets?

The reality of the situation is that we are a Saka or Martinelli injury away from our season collapsing, as we are with our options or lack of them in Central Midfield if Partey or dare I say even Xhaka breaks down.

If it's not Mudryk, then it needs to be someone else, we desperately need adding quality to the squad ASAP.

P.S. Been reading this morning we have gone back in for Raphinha, apparently Barca want rid.

I agree with you that there is a risk that our top performers will break down and derail our title push - and we have seen the drop off when our first 11 is not fit. But (and I know that you will appreciate this even if more impulsive posters on here do not), there is a risk in signing players also. Mudryk looks a good prospect but he has played only 33 top flight games. He is EPL unproven. Transfers always create excitement because of the unknown, and the ability to dream, but its easy to make assumptions that players will be instant successes, when the reality is almost always different. Before moving to Manchester United in September 2022, the more experienced Anthony (at £86 million - identified by Ten Hag as integral to his project) made 57 league appearances in total at Ajax, scoring 18 goals and providing 14 assists. He's been OK for Manure under a very good coach, but has scored 3 goals for Manure this season.

I make this comparison to try to balance the hype. Those lamenting the non-signing of Mudryk do so mainly due to the idea that he would almost have guaranteed our title push, when there is no such guarantee. He would have been more a player for the future, with the hope that he would fire this season if needed. Would this be worth £100M? I think not. I think Arsenal was right not to be forced to pay over their valuation - and the fact that the player chased the money suggests that there may have been a question mark over his committment to our project. Plus our team's current greatest strength is its group togetherness - you will potentially affect this by doing a Chelsea and paying over the odds for a player - whatever the circumstances. Remember that Saka, Martinelli, Saliba are yet to be tied down to new contracts.

As for walking away when Shakhtar stood firm. I'm afraid I have to disagree. While there was a prospect that we might sign a player who apparently wanted to come to us and whom Arteta had identified as wanting we were right to continue to try to secure this signing. I guarantee that the fact this was so public was down to the player's agent and his club, not Arsenal, and the alternative would have been to give up because Chelsea were likely to offer more which I don't agree with.

For me, what is key here is not Mudryk. It's getting in cover. And if we are looking for this to assist a title push I would be more comfortable with the likes of Raphina or Garcia who are EPL tested. We both agree that getting noone in would seem negligent. Failing to secure Mudryk or Felix isn't.

[selassie]

I agree with you that there is a risk that our top performers will break down and derail our title push - and we have seen the drop off when our first 11 is not fit. But (and I know that you will appreciate this even if more impulsive posters on here do not), there is a risk in signing players also. Mudryk looks a good prospect but he has played only 33 top flight games. He is EPL unproven. Transfers always create excitement because of the unknown, and the ability to dream, but its easy to make assumptions that players will be instant successes, when the reality is almost always different. Before moving to Manchester United in September 2022, the more experienced Anthony (at £86 million - identified by Ten Hag as integral to his project) made 57 league appearances in total at Ajax, scoring 18 goals and providing 14 assists. He's been OK for Manure under a very good coach, but has scored 3 goals for Manure this season.

I make this comparison to try to balance the hype. Those lamenting the non-signing of Mudryk do so mainly due to the idea that he would almost have guaranteed our title push, when there is no such guarantee. He would have been more a player for the future, with the hope that he would fire this season if needed. Would this be worth £100M? I think not. I think Arsenal was right not to be forced to pay over their valuation - and the fact that the player chased the money suggests that there may have been a question mark over his committment to our project. Plus our team's current greatest strength is its group togetherness - you will potentially affect this by doing a Chelsea and paying over the odds for a player - whatever the circumstances. Remember that Saka, Martinelli, Saliba are yet to be tied down to new contracts.

As for walking away when Shakhtar stood firm. I'm afraid I have to disagree. While there was a prospect that we might sign a player who apparently wanted to come to us and whom Arteta had identified as wanting we were right to continue to try to secure this signing. I guarantee that the fact this was so public was down to the player's agent and his club, not Arsenal, and the alternative would have been to give up because Chelsea were likely to offer more which I don't agree with.

For me, what is key here is not Mudryk. It's getting in cover. And if we are looking for this to assist a title push I would be more comfortable with the likes of Raphina or Garcia who are EPL tested. We both agree that getting noone in would seem negligent. Failing to secure Mudryk or Felix isn't.

:gp:

I agree, I am just desperate for us to do something (even loans) if it means adding quality depth and giving us a real chance of success this season. I am starting to think we can genuinely win the league if we do add to the squad.

[Marc Overmars]

In addition to a winger/forward, I hope we’re on the look out for a Partey alternative. His importance to the team is immeasurable, the drop off in quality without him would be disastrous.

[HCZ_Reborn]

In addition to a winger/forward, I hope we’re on the look out for a Partey alternative. His importance to the team is immeasurable, the drop off in quality without him would be disastrous.

Don’t see that happening before the summer, I think we only went in for Douglas Luiz because it was feared both Partey and Elneny would be out for a long time

I’m of the view that Partey should be rested in certain fixtures to make sure a) he’s not playing too many games and b) we are capable of getting results without him.

I think whatever else we have to conclude that Lokonga is useless and we need to cut our losses on him in the summer…he has been without doubt the worst player in an Arsenal shirt this season and as much as I chide Arteta for not rotating, he’s been dreadful every time he has played. If you cannot impose yourself on the game against Oxford United, the premier league is not for you.

To be honest as much as I hate to say it, I think the wisest option might be to keep our hands in our pockets until the summer. Some of the players we’ve been linked with as alternatives for Mudryk (Trossard, Raphinia) leave my blood running cold….they absolutely would be the epitome of panic signings.


This summer might be the time for offloading a few players. Elneny possibly (he’s not getting younger and we need someone who can step up and do the job just as well as Partey is). I think we should probably cash in on one of Vieira or Smith Rowe (we simply don’t need both players) and I think Tierney might be best shipped out as well

[Marc Overmars]

Trossard would be an interesting option in the short term but yeah I don’t feel like we should be splashing out on players for the sake of it. Doing that is what got us into the mess post-Wenger.

Recruitment has been spot on for the last couple of years and if the club feel like keeping the powder dry then I’ll back that.

The question is how enticing is that dangling carrot of a PL title at the moment? As it stands our squad is wafer thin and we’re relying on a lot of luck to keep us ticking over.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

In addition to a winger/forward, I hope we’re on the look out for a Partey alternative. His importance to the team is immeasurable, the drop off in quality without him would be disastrous.

Again I agree with you and this is the only position that really worries me as it's so obvious that even a below average Partey is so superior to any of the options we have ATM.

The guy's contribution to the team is just unbelievable...it seems like he single handely runs our midfield and dictates tempo no matter how poor he is. I still believe his absence was the main reason we lost to Man U. I don't know how to put it but he just makes us look like we are playing an extra man in the centre.

If we are spending money, that is the position I believe we should spend anything to get adequate cover for. Partey is irreplaceable in this team and like you said without him the dropoff in quality of our play is just to obvious.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Trossard would be an interesting option in the short term but yeah I don’t feel like we should be splashing out on players for the sake of it. Doing that is what got us into the mess post-Wenger.

Recruitment has been spot on for the last couple of years and if the club feel like keeping the powder dry then I’ll back that.

The question is how enticing is that dangling carrot of a PL title at the moment? As it stands our squad is wafer thin and we’re relying on a lot of luck to keep us ticking over.

I just think it’s too much of a gamble to bring in players that we have no use for long term in the hope that they can win us this current title, when nothing will guarantee that…we aren’t favourites…Manchester City are and we are 18 games in not 25…we aren’t in the mid way point yet to put our current league position down to anything other than an anomaly caused by other teams showing indifferent form.

As it is we haven’t secured 4th yet. But neither should we be panic buying to get that over the line

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Wow, just checked again, every single competitive loss this season has involved Partey not starting.

Clearly Artera should be thinking about tweaking the style of play anytime he is not involved.....I'd even suggest trying Zinchenko their once in a while.

[Chippy]

Again I agree with you and this is the only position that really worries me as it's so obvious that even a below average Partey is so superior to any of the options we have ATM.

The guy's contribution to the team is just unbelievable...it seems like he single handely runs our midfield and dictates tempo no matter how poor he is. I still believe his absence was the main reason we lost to Man U. I don't know how to put it but he just makes us look like we are playing an extra man in the centre.

If we are spending money, that is the position I believe we should spend anything to get adequate cover for. Partey is irreplaceable in this team and like you said without him the dropoff in quality of our play is just to obvious.

What about a cheeky bid for Tielemans?

[HCZ_Reborn]

What about a cheeky bid for Tielemans?

Tielemans would be an upgrade on Xhaka rather than a replacement for Partey, plus we don’t have to bid for him…we can just offer him a pre-contract agreement (which in my view we should) but still means we won’t get him till the summer

[HCZ_Reborn]

Wow, just checked again, every single competitive loss this season has involved Partey not starting.

Clearly Artera should be thinking about tweaking the style of play anytime he is not involved.....I'd even suggest trying Zinchenko their once in a while.

Dunno if you can read too much into that, we’ve lost three games this season so it’s drawing from a small evidence base

I mean yeah don’t get me wrong if you replace partey in midfield with Lokonga you’re asking for trouble. But what I will say is that I think we can attack just as well without Partey (although would not fancy us in big away games including yesterday without him)

But like with Odegaard, he’s come on leaps and bounds this season…even by his own admission he was stinking the place out at times

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Tielemans would be an upgrade on Xhaka rather than a replacement for Partey, plus we don’t have to bid for him…we can just offer him a pre-contract agreement (which in my view we should) but still means we won’t get him till the summer

Yup, have to agree with this.

Again, I think the short term answer might be experimenting with other players in that position (zinchenko, white) and giving up on using Sambi as a direct alternative. Tweaking our formation is the other option, but much harder to achieve.

[Mac76]

Trossard would be an interesting option in the short term but yeah I don’t feel like we should be splashing out on players for the sake of it. Doing that is what got us into the mess post-Wenger.

Recruitment has been spot on for the last couple of years and if the club feel like keeping the powder dry then I’ll back that.

The question is how enticing is that dangling carrot of a PL title at the moment? As it stands our squad is wafer thin and we’re relying on a lot of luck to keep us ticking over.

It's that last bit that's the important bit.

If we can be successful then there will be enough games to go round to keep everyone interested, that's what we need to get to. So if every year we're getting far into the cup competitions and CL, as well as challenging regularly for the title, we'll need more players anyway.

We certainly shouldn't be making Luiz-style signings any more but I'd be happy with players like Trossard or Raphina and if they accept they won't start every week it's fine.

[Marc Overmars]

The priceless thing about Partey is that he can beat the press and operate in congested areas. More often than not an attack will start from him playing his way out of trouble. Zinchenko also does that too with more dribbling. These kind of players appear vital for Arteta’s system.

Will be an interesting battle with Casemiro on the weekend in the middle.

[selassie]

I just think it’s too much of a gamble to bring in players that we have no use for long term in the hope that they can win us this current title, when nothing will guarantee that…we aren’t favourites…Manchester City are and we are 18 games in not 25…we aren’t in the mid way point yet to put our current league position down to anything other than an anomaly caused by other teams showing indifferent form.

As it is we haven’t secured 4th yet. But neither should we be panic buying to get that over the line

:gp:

Totally agree. I think Trossard is a decent short-term option but I would only consider a loan for him, he's not really a credible long term option due to his age.

[selassie]

The priceless thing about Partey is that he can beat the press and operate in congested areas. More often than not an attack will start from him playing his way out of trouble. Zinchenko also does that too with more dribbling. These kind of players appear vital for Arteta’s system.

Will be an interesting battle with Casemiro on the weekend in the middle.

Caciedo at Brighton plays like a younger version of Thomas Partey. It's why the likes of Chelsea are desperate to sign him. I have faith that Arteta and Edu will address the Partey backup player issue, be either an internal solution...I've not written off Sambi-Lokonga just yet or by going into the market.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I just think it’s too much of a gamble to bring in players that we have no use for long term in the hope that they can win us this current title, when nothing will guarantee that…we aren’t favourites…Manchester City are and we are 18 games in not 25…we aren’t in the mid way point yet to put our current league position down to anything other than an anomaly caused by other teams showing indifferent form.

As it is we haven’t secured 4th yet. But neither should we be panic buying to get that over the line

Couldn't disagree more with this post even if I wanted to....has small club mentality written all over it ( signed and approved by Kronke AFC), pretty sad TBH.

Big clubs do what they need to do to win or get to their objectives (i.e. Chelsea spending whatever it takes to try and save their season in January...same way Man U did earlier this summer).

Great additions to the squad are not determined by age, it's medium sized clubs looking to sell of players that think in such a way.

Last January when Barca wanted to save their season, despite their financial turmoil they took an aging Auba from us, besides recruiting a lot of other experienced talent and turned their season around. They still managed flog Auba and not make a loss....thats what big clubs do, they reorganise efficiently.

Man U did the same when they brought in Ibrahimovic to save their season years ago.

Barca did the same with Larson years further, if you can't remember just go and watch our CL final to have a good cry again... In fact Fergie (who clearly knows more about wining than anyone here) still brought Larson to Man U at 35 (from semi-retirement in Sweden) and ended up winning the league and achieving what he wanted from the signing. If you don't believe me read Fergie's words.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/punditarena.com/football/robredmond/man-united-henrik-larsson-alex-ferguson-new/%3famp

Big clubs sign players because you need the quality they can bring to you....on and off the pitch. The more immediate they can bring that quality the better. Most successful managers know this, it's only people who know very little about wining that keep thinking only in the future tense and get managers sacked....and here I'm talking specifically about what our "winners" in the club did to Emery that he feels one of the main reasons he got sacked (Pepe signing of course).

https://www.goal.com/en-ng/amp/news/former-arsenal-boss-emery-wanted-to-sign-zaha-instead-of-pepe/12g0bu1xq54sl1v52f58rn9jzs


“We signed Pepe," Emery told The Guardian "He’s a good player but we didn’t know his character and he needs time, patience.

"I favoured someone who knew the league and wouldn’t need to adapt. Zaha won games on his own: Tottenham, Manchester City, us. Incredible performances. I told them: ‘This is the player I know and want.’

"I met Zaha and he wanted to come. The club decided Pepe was one for the future. I said: ‘Yes, but we need to win now and this lad wins games.’ He beat us on his own."

So are you saying if you had the option to sign Benzema on your terms this January you wouldn't take him because he wouldn't represent value to this squad??

As fans, we should be able to think independently on some things and not act like we are being paid salaries by the club to keep making excuses for their obvious lapses.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The funniest thing is that with the way we've been thinking in future tense for the past 20 years, you would think supporters of this should have evidence to show the benefits it has provided to the club..... I mean did it deliver us trophies or have we really had the best young players in the world grace these parts??

Let me ask, what about transfer fees, have we really made top dollar from all the great future tense signings we've made. Who remembers how much we sold Gnarby for?

Maybe after flogging Pepe they'll have more ammo for their argument :haha:

***Update just checked, a future tense is actually our top sale, RVP going to United in 2012 for 27.6m remains our record sale. Fergie paid top dollar for a 29 year old player who only helped him steal the league back from City and end up highest goal scorer (BTW he left because we wouldn't offer him more years on a new contract). You just gotta love our transfer policy!!

[HCZ_Reborn]

You use Barcelona as a yard stick? And yet the reason we are enquiring about Raphinia after being there only six months is because they’ve learned nothing from their last debacle over having a ridiculously high wage bill.

I wouldn’t accuse City of having small club mentality, but when’s the last time you’ve known them to go out and make a panic signing?. They operated with only Jesus as their out and out centre forward for over a year because they don’t want to compromise on quality.

Chelsea aren’t acting like a big club, they are acting like a club that has no regard towards its own future sustainability. They could end up with 30 players in their squad by the end of this transfer window and they are going to have experienced players not being registered to play premier league games which is going to create all kinds of friction.

It’s not just about the value of the transfer it’s about the knock on effect it has in terms of squad harmony (it doesn’t fill me with confidence that Trossard’s current manager has spoken out against his attitude) and the sell on value of a player is a consideration when we look to the summer and the need to strengthen the squad going forward.

In my view to be absolutely sure we can keep going right to the end of the season, we would need three players…a central midfielder, a winger and a striker (and I felt this even before Jesus got injured). That isn’t going to happen in this transfer window even the worlds most richest clubs would struggle to bring three players like that in.

So my consideration is between signing players that I don’t especially rate and don’t think would have any great impact on a title chase and waiting till the summer. Let me be clear on this, we will either win the title or we won’t…I simply don’t believe there’s anyone we can bring in now that will significantly push the odds in our favour.

If I thought that player was out there and available to buy now, my attitude would be different but this is half way through the season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Couldn't disagree more with this post even if I wanted to....has small club mentality written all over it ( signed and approved by Kronke AFC), pretty sad TBH.

Big clubs do what they need to do to win or get to their objectives (i.e. Chelsea spending whatever it takes to try and save their season in January...same way Man U did earlier this summer).

Great additions to the squad are not determined by age, it's medium sized clubs looking to sell of players that think in such a way.

Last January when Barca wanted to save their season, despite their financial turmoil they took an aging Auba from us, besides recruiting a lot of other experienced talent and turned their season around. They still managed flog Auba and not make a loss....thats what big clubs do, they reorganise efficiently.

Man U did the same when they brought in Ibrahimovic to save their season years ago.

Barca did the same with Larson years further, if you can't remember just go and watch our CL final to have a good cry again... In fact Fergie (who clearly knows more about wining than anyone here) still brought Larson to Man U at 35 (from semi-retirement in Sweden) and ended up winning the league and achieving what he wanted from the signing. If you don't believe me read Fergie's words.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/punditarena.com/football/robredmond/man-united-henrik-larsson-alex-ferguson-new/%3famp

Big clubs sign players because you need the quality they can bring to you....on and off the pitch. The more immediate they can bring that quality the better. Most successful managers know this, it's only people who know very little about wining that keep thinking only in the future tense and get managers sacked....and here I'm talking specifically about what our "winners" in the club did to Emery that he feels one of the main reasons he got sacked (Pepe signing of course).

https://www.goal.com/en-ng/amp/news/former-arsenal-boss-emery-wanted-to-sign-zaha-instead-of-pepe/12g0bu1xq54sl1v52f58rn9jzs



So are you saying if you had the option to sign Benzema on your terms this January you wouldn't take him because he wouldn't represent value to this squad??

As fans, we should be able to think independently on some things and not act like we are being paid salaries by the club to keep making excuses for their obvious lapses.

On my terms would be a six month contract that takes us up to the end of the season. If you can prove to me that Benzema would be willing to make that kind of arrangement without being paid significantly higher than he is at Real Madrid I’d go for it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The funniest thing is that with the way we've been thinking in future tense for the past 20 years, you would think supporters of this should have evidence to show the benfits it has provided to the club..... I mean did it deliver us trophies or have we really had the best young players in the world grace these parts??

Let me ask, what about transfer fees, have really made top dollar from all the great future tense signings we've made. Who remembers how much we sold Gnarby for?

Maybe after flogging Pepe they'll have more ammo for their argument :haha:


You do operate in a strange binary world don’t you ?

I think you’ll find me as one of the people who was highly critical of the fact that we were getting peanuts for players we sold

But on top of that we signed so many players on big contracts that stuck to us like barnacles and it clearly dented our ability to bring players in, yet you seem to want to make that same mistake again

[Mac76]

I agree with 21 Gooner to an extent, future planning is all well and good but RIGHT NOW we have a huge chance to win the PL that might well not be there next year or who knows how many years to come - and the players we can get next summer will be influenced by how successful the club has been this season

Without reinforcement we're headed for a possible meltdown in the spring which could see us be overtaken by an increasing large chasing pack

[HCZ_Reborn]

I agree with 21 Gooner to an extent, future planning is all well and good but RIGHT NOW we have a huge chance to win the PL that might well not be there next year or who knows how many years to come - and the players we can get next summer will be influenced by how successful the club has been this season

Without reinforcement we're headed for a possible meltdown in the spring which could see us be overtaken by an increasing large chasing pack

If it happens it happens


I simply don’t believe there’s anyone out there who we can afford (and even if we could afford it would be hard to get the deal over the line) that would provide the comprehensive insurance we are looking for.


If Saka gets injured we are fucked

If Partey gets injured we are fucked

If Nketiah doesn’t consistently score we are fucked


And it wouldn’t need all three of these things to happen, it would just need one


The fact is we are 18 games into the season, it’s ridiculous to be thinking about the title as it’s too early. The World Cup seems to have given us a perspective that we are further into the season than we actually are.


The problem is too many people here seem to inhabit the world of what should, in that world we would have had these players we need in place from last summer. But we did’nt.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You do operate in a strange binary world don’t you ?

I think you’ll find me as one of the people who was highly critical of the fact that we were getting peanuts for players we sold

But on top of that we signed so many players on big contracts that stuck to us like barnacles and it clearly dented our ability to bring players in, yet you seem to want to make that same mistake again

HCZ it's simple, we've had an extremely poor transfer strategy in this club for ages and that was because of our obsession with youth and all manner of cheapness started by AW.

When he became desperate towards the end of his reign thats when things changed and we started getting class like Laca and Auba (both paying top dollar for in the same year).

You buy who you need, can afford and will add value to your squad.

To make it crystal clear, IMO the only position we have that gives me sleepless nights is Partey's. If he gets injured today and the club don't sign cover before January, IMO they are not serious.

If he gets injured later (after January) and its clear that we went downhill because of his absence, I will still blame the club because it was obvious to all that his position is pivotal.

All I am saying, is if you identify a proper potential target that will add value, sign him and stop coming up with silly excuses of age or any other crap.

Go the extra mile, leave your comfort zone, do what it takes to win.

This is the most difficult league in the world, you can't just fill a checklist and expect you'll win by being ordinary.

And stop being silly, we're obviously going to finish in the top 4.

[HCZ_Reborn]

HCZ it's simple, we've had an extremely poor transfer strategy in this club for ages and that was because of our obsession with youth started by AW.

When he became desperate towards the end of his reign thats when things changed and we started getting class like Laca and Auba (both paying top dollar for in the same year).

You buy who you need, can afford and will add value to your squad.

To make it crystal clear, IMO the only position we have that gives me sleepless nights is Partey's. If he gets injured today and the club don't sign cover before January, IMO they are not serious.

If he gets injured later (after January) and its clear that we went downhill because of his absence, I will still blame the club because it was obvious to all that his position is pivotal.

All I am saying, is if you identify a proper potential target that will add value, sign him and stop coming up with silly excuses of age or any other crap.

Go the extra mile, leave your comfort zone, do what it takes to win.

This is the most difficult league in the world, you can't just fill a checklist and expect you'll win by being ordinary.

And stop being silly, we're obviously going to finish in the top 4.


It was Wenger’s youth policy that kept us in the top four for so long when it was abundantly clear that we were sticking to the self sustainability model. The main mistake he made was to stick these players on ridiculous contracts

Then when we were able to bring players in we brought in average dross, we went down the table and couldn’t get rid of them

The problem is you’re presenting it like it’s a choice between being like Chelsea and being unambitious and I utterly reject that notion.

In fact I think the idea of the desire to spend now when the players are not available is small club mentality, because it supposes that we will never have a chance like this season again. My preference is to build a team that will compete for the title each and every single year which clearly wasn’t the ambition of the club between 2006 and 2014…it was to keep us on a sound financial footing whilst we paid down the stadium debt. So your comparison is Apples and Bowling balls. Whatever shit we might have been led to believe at the time, that was the reality of the situation

Man City’s team a lot of their players are the wrong side of thirty and they know they have FFP breathing down their neck. Chelsea may not give a shit, but I don’t consider they are going to be contending for anything any time soon.

If we needed to recruit in January to give us any chance of the title, the fact is we never stood a chance. January is for sticking plaster solutions….I’d love to have the complete squad that we need to win the title, but the fact is that’s not going to happen in this window. And that would be true if we were City or Chelsea


If we’d signed someone like Douglas Luiz, if Jesus hadn’t got injured at the World Cup I would say we were well in contention for the title regardless of Mudryk (he’s a prospect…well so is Marquinhos and so is Vieira).

The fact is you say the only injury that gives you sleepless nights is Partey, well no offence but if that’s the case why are you throwing your Teddy out of the pram that we didn’t sign Mudryk??…did you think we would have spent the amount Chelsea did on him AND bring in cover for Partey !??

[Mac76]

Marquinos needs to get more game time, I keep forgetting the guy exists, also we should consider getting Balogun back from loan so we aren't just relying on Eddie.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It was Wenger’s youth policy that kept us in the top four for so long when it was abundantly clear that we were sticking to the self sustainability model. The main mistake he made was to stick these players on ridiculous contracts

No, the problem was we prioritised youth over everything including merit. We had players that were clearly not good enough and we refused to sign better more experienced players because it would kill youth. Even the good experienced players, we refused to hold on to them because of our youth obsession. The funny thing is when we did have young players that were good, they would still bugger off to another team because our ambition was a mismatch for them. To a fair extent, in Arteta's Arsenal, this issue is no longer a worry. Balogun and Wilock (who I love BTW) are perfect examples to show he has remedied this.



The problem is you’re presenting it like it’s a choice between being like Chelsea and being unambitious and I utterly reject that notion.

Not once have I said we should be like Chelsea or whatever that means. My emphasis has been compete with all thats available to you and not sit on your arse filling a checklist and being ordinary.



In fact I think the idea of the desire to spend now when the players are not available is small club mentality, because it supposes that we will never have a chance like this season again. My preference is to build a team that will compete for the title each and every single year which clearly wasn’t the ambition of the club between 2006 and 2014…it was to keep us on a sound financial footing whilst we paid down the stadium debt. So your comparison is Apples and Bowling balls

Rubbish, rubbish, rubbish....we were never told and there is absolutely no evidence to show that the ambition of the club was to pay stadium debt or that the stadium debt was the main reason why we did what we did. It was the excuse but never the reason. Other poorer teams have built far more expensive stadiums and remained competitive on and off the pitch. So stop with the government propaganda.



Man City’s team a lot of their players are the wrong side of thirty and they know they have FFP breathing down their neck. Chelsea may not give a shit, but I don’t consider they are going to be contending for anything any time soon.
Its been 20years of hearing this same drivel that these teams will fall on their sword... won't you guys ever get tired?



If we needed to recruit in January to give us any chance of the title, the fact is we never stood a chance. January is for sticking plaster solutions….I’d love to have the complete squad that we need to win the title, but the fact is that’s not going to happen in this window. And that would be true if we were City or Chelsea

If we’d signed someone like Douglas Luiz, if Jesus hadn’t got injured at the World Cup I would say we were well in contention for the title regardless of Mudryk (he’s a prospect…well so is Marquinhos and so is Vieira).

Dude we are favourites for the title whether you like it or not. Betting odds have been slashed and for the first time we are now FIRM favourites. I get it that's its a bit scary, but thats how competition works. The league is ours to lose and now it is confirmed independently, so no amount of excuses or pretending will hide that fact that its all in our hands. Just like it was the year Leicester won the league.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If you genuinely believe that we had the money to sign better, more experienced players but chose not to…I don’t know what to tell you. The fact is you can argue over the self sustaining model and say we should have let Kroenke or Usmanov finance those signings, but that’s a different argument entirely.

Also this debate will not be productive if you keep insisting on telling me what I think and in the process ignoring it when I do tell you what I think. If you want to argue a straw man that’s your choice but you absolutely do not require me for that.

What the betting markets think is of no concern to me, I don’t regard us as favourites a) because we’ve played less than half the games and b) we haven’t yet played Man City.

Now if within a month or so we have played City and still maintain a sizeable lead over them, I’ll be singing a completely different tune…but I think it’s premature.

Nothing in your argument has convinced me that there are players out there in all three positions we require that would be available to us and wouldn’t end up in a ridiculous situation on them being on eight year contracts and on twice the amount of money the rest of the squad is on.

If that situation existed and even if it cost us 200 or even 300 million plus and might impact our finances for next year or two, I’d absolutely say go for it. But that situation doesn’t exist, and I expect you know it doesn’t exist.

[HCZ_Reborn]

But I tell you what, I’ll take your claim at face value

You’ve said to me having cover for Partey is the main issue for you.

Well if we identify a decent player that could be both a stand in for him and someone who could be a long term replacement too (you have to factor that in as a consideration because otherwise you’ll bring in a player expecting to play and getting fucked off when he doesn’t) then I absolutely will be up for us signing that player

If into the bargain we identify a winger as well and sign both, I consider that an absolute bonus.

Because I do want us to do everything we can to win the title. I’m just not convinced that signing any old person just to give on edge fans a bit of relief is not necessarily the way to do it

[IBK]

I just think it’s too much of a gamble to bring in players that we have no use for long term in the hope that they can win us this current title, when nothing will guarantee that…we aren’t favourites…Manchester City are and we are 18 games in not 25…we aren’t in the mid way point yet to put our current league position down to anything other than an anomaly caused by other teams showing indifferent form.

As it is we haven’t secured 4th yet. But neither should we be panic buying to get that over the line

Agree with this. We need to be so careful not to upset the squad togetherness that we have built and paying over the odds in transfers/wages has huge knock on effects. I'm torn though, because I am starting to think that we could be in with a shot at the title. But on balance if we sign someone it has to be a player who fits into our long term plans.

I disagree with you that our current position is an anomaly however. The stats don't lie. This is our best league start (half) ever. To say that we are here only because everyone else has been indifferent is a bit nuts. As far as title hopes are concerned you are basically suggesting that everyone else is going to have a massive upswing in the second half of the season. Why would that be?

[IBK]

But I tell you what, I’ll take your claim at face value

You’ve said to me having cover for Partey is the main issue for you.

Well if we identify a decent player that could be both a stand in for him and someone who could be a long term replacement too (you have to factor that in as a consideration because otherwise you’ll bring in a player expecting to play and getting fucked off when he doesn’t) then I absolutely will be up for us signing that player

If into the bargain we identify a winger as well and sign both, I consider that an absolute bonus.

Because I do want us to do everything we can to win the title. I’m just not convinced that signing any old person just to give on edge fans a bit of relief is not necessarily the way to do it

Here's the thing with Partey. I can't think of a replacement that can do what he can do - ie the jobs of 2 players in one. Seems to me that Arteta thinks that Declan Rice might be capable of being trained up to do this - and this is the long term plan. But anyone who thinks that a true replacement is just lying around for us to pick up this January is delusional.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Here's the thing with Partey. I can't think of a replacement that can do what he can do - ie the jobs of 2 players in one. Seems to me that Arteta thinks that Declan Rice might be capable of being trained up to do this - and this is the long term plan. But anyone who thinks that a true replacement is just lying around for us to pick up this January is delusional.

Oh I agree with that, but in some ways much of that doing two jobs largely comes down to the positional ill discipline of Granit Xhaka…and it’s as much that he has to do that as well as can do it.

Arguably you could sign a player a bit more in the Xhaka mould who also is more inclined to track back (and I’m not saying that Xhaka never does this, it’s just he goes through long spells where he doesn’t) and then leave a player like Elneny to do the more gritty protecting the back four tasks.

I’m not a big fan of Rice myself, he can be excellent both for West Ham and for England, but if he’s underperforming for the latter we know about it.

I think we should at the very least just keep Partey out of Europe entirely, if we are genuinely going for the title…the Europa league and really the FA cup become an encumbrance. I honestly felt there was no need to play Saka and Martinelli against Oxford for example.

[IBK]

Oh I agree with that, but in some ways much of that doing two jobs largely comes down to the positional ill discipline of Granit Xhaka…and it’s as much that he has to do that as well as can do it.

Arguably you could sign a player a bit more in the Xhaka mould who also is more inclined to track back (and I’m not saying that Xhaka never does this, it’s just he goes through long spells where he doesn’t) and then leave a player like Elneny to do the more gritty protecting the back four tasks.

I’m not a big fan of Rice myself, he can be excellent both for West Ham and for England, but if he’s underperforming for the latter we know about it.

I think we should at the very least just keep Partey out of Europe entirely, if we are genuinely going for the title…the Europa league and really the FA cup become an encumbrance. I honestly felt there was no need to play Saka and Martinelli against Oxford for example.

I don't think Partey does 2 jobs because of Xhaka. I think Arteta has been able to get the best out of Xhaka (one of our stand out players this season - but I know you don't agree with me) because Partey can do 2 jobs - which IMHO is very rare to find at the level Partey plays.

I kind of agree with you re keeping him out of Europe, but by the same token I can see where Arteta is coming from that if you want to breed winners you need to go out and try to win. I'd be perfectly happy to see us go out of the FA Cup...provided we beat Manure next weekend and can see an exit to Citeh as a bit 'meh'.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Agree with this. We need to be so careful not to upset the squad togetherness that we have built and paying over the odds in transfers/wages has huge knock on effects. I'm torn though, because I am starting to think that we could be in with a shot at the title. But on balance if we sign someone it has to be a player who fits into our long term plans.

I disagree with you that our current position is an anomaly however. The stats don't lie. This is our best league start (half) ever. To say that we are here only because everyone else has been indifferent is a bit nuts. As far as title hopes are concerned you are basically suggesting that everyone else is going to have a massive upswing in the second half of the season. Why would that be?

It is by its very definition an anomaly because it deviates from what normally has been produced by Arsenal in recent years, and my point is that it’s simply too soon to categorise it definitively as being anything more.

If you’re asking have we been the best team in the league so far this season, the objective answer going by the league table as well as from deriving an opinion from watching us play is yes.

The Germans refer to the team that is top of the table at the half way point as the Autumnmeister, in the last ten years I think Dortmund have been Autumnmeister on more than one occasion but have ended up falling considerably short of Bayern in the end of season table.

We have to go to Liverpool, we have to go to Newcastle, we have to play City twice. All games we could comfortably lose and then our eight point advantage is potentially a four point deficit. And with Newcastle and United closer to City than they are to us, it wouldn’t take an epic disaster to see us tumble out of the top four.

And will City pick up points on a continual basis from January to May?, I don’t know…but historical precedence shows they are more than capable of it, as are Liverpool, as are Spurs…the only teams untested in that regard is Newcastle and Man United under Ten Haag.

We’ve enjoyed a good start to the season, but yes it’s not a reflection on us that we are where we are because a lot of teams have suffered indifferent form (Chelsea nowhere, Liverpool inconsistent, Spurs in a funk and City by their ridiculously high standards and a freak of nature goalscorer have been below par)

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't think Partey does 2 jobs because of Xhaka. I think Arteta has been able to get the best out of Xhaka (one of our stand out players this season - but I know you don't agree with me) because Partey can do 2 jobs - which IMHO is very rare to find at the level Partey plays.

I kind of agree with you re keeping him out of Europe, but by the same token I can see where Arteta is coming from that if you want to breed winners you need to go out and try to win. I'd be perfectly happy to see us go out of the FA Cup...provided we beat Manure next weekend and can see an exit to Citeh as a bit 'meh'.

Xhaka has had a good season because he is being played in a more advanced role than previous years and is being Shawn of the same defensive responsibilities he might have had in the past, this is why Arteta has been so keen on bringing in Zinchenko a player that can cut inside and roll up his sleeves in midfield.

The premier league does not usually allow for a player that is at best indifferent to the defensive side of the game in central midfield. And as much as Partey is capable of doing both jobs, from a defensive standpoint we’d be screwed if we weren’t

Our only league defeat this season, was a result of defensive lack of control as a result of Partey’s absence. Xhaka fulfilled his new role vacating central midfield to Eriksen, Lokonga simply didn’t have it within him to impose himself on the game and when Zinchenko came in to help out in central midfield it left a giant load of space for them to exploit in the fullback area

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Because I do want us to do everything we can to win the title.
Finally, we got there :)



I’m just not convinced that signing any old person just to give on edge fans a bit of relief is not necessarily the way to do it

The funny thing, besides Mudryk, which we royally bungled, I have not insisted we sign anyone.

I have been consistent about my assessment of the team, our weakness is in the centre, we get someone of quality there then I am more than happy. But if we bungle the title because our weakness comes back to haunt us (and more importantly we did nothing about addressing it) I will hold the club responsible. Simple.

Every single post I have put out is saying the club should IMO be trying their best off the pitch (go the extra mile) because I am not seeing any evidence that suggests they are.

BTW I doubt anyone can accuse me of panicking or being on the edge, surely that label is better suited to those who refuse to accept the obvious i.e. we are favourites and will clinch a CL place.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Finally, we got there :)



The funny thing, besides Mudryk, which we royally bungled, I have not insisted we sign anyone.

I have been consistent about my assessment of the team, our weakness is in the centre, we get someone of quality there then I am more than happy. But if we bungle the title because our weakness comes back to haunt us (and more importantly we did nothing about addressing it) I will hold the club responsible. Simple.

Every single post I have put out is saying the club should IMO be trying their best off the pitch (go the extra mile) because I am not seeing any evidence that suggests they are.

BTW I doubt anyone can accuse me of panicking or being on the edge, surely that label is better suited to those who refuse to accept the obvious i.e. we are favourites and will clinch a CL place.



Just my opinion of course but I think many people can credibly accuse you of panicking, I’d go as far as to say that since Saturday you’ve been figuratively spraying molten effluence in all directions.

Your reaction to the Mudryk going to Chelsea was incredibly histrionic, if you were a woman I’d accuse you of being on the blob (the only reason I know you’re not is because this place is generally as appealing to women as the Carlton Club)

Do we need squad strengthening? Yes

Is January ever a good time to do it? No, January is for sticking plasters. So for me it’s far more logical to be annoyed with what the club didn’t do in the Summer. I’m not even convinced the January transfer window should exist aside from emergency loans or free transfers…it seems completely for the benefit of keeping Jim White in work.

Is losing out on Mudryk to Chelsea disappointing? Yes


Is signing someone like Raphinia or Trossard…the equivalent of banging the ugly girl next door because the one you were really after ended up shagging your nemesis ? Also yes. Might feel good at the time, but has no real benefit and if she ends up pregnant you’re completely fucked.

4th is not done till it’s done. We lost seven games in the period between January and May last year if you don’t think that many defeats would a) not happen b) not seriously imperil us getting in the top 4…I don’t know what to tell you. That’s not panic, you may think it negative I see it as cold hearted pragmatism to explore the worst case scenario.

[IBK]

It is by its very definition an anomaly because it deviates from what normally has been produced by Arsenal in recent years, and my point is that it’s simply too soon to categorise it definitively as being anything more.

If you’re asking have we been the best team in the league so far this season, the objective answer going by the league table as well as from deriving an opinion from watching us play is yes.

The Germans refer to the team that is top of the table at the half way point as the Autumnmeister, in the last ten years I think Dortmund have been Autumnmeister on more than one occasion but have ended up falling considerably short of Bayern in the end of season table.

We have to go to Liverpool, we have to go to Newcastle, we have to play City twice. All games we could comfortably lose and then our eight point advantage is potentially a four point deficit. And with Newcastle and United closer to City than they are to us, it wouldn’t take an epic disaster to see us tumble out of the top four.

And will City pick up points on a continual basis from January to May?, I don’t know…but historical precedence shows they are more than capable of it, as are Liverpool, as are Spurs…the only teams untested in that regard is Newcastle and Man United under Ten Haag.

We’ve enjoyed a good start to the season, but yes it’s not a reflection on us that we are where we are because a lot of teams have suffered indifferent form (Chelsea nowhere, Liverpool inconsistent, Spurs in a funk and City by their ridiculously high standards and a freak of nature goalscorer have been below par)

Understand all that. But on the anomaly point - football progresses, and while you can of course say that our league position is a divergence from recent years I don't think that you can look at past seasons to assume that this trend will continue for Arsenal this season. The evidence is before our eyes. Arsenal is clearly a team on an upward trajectory and extrapolating from our performances this season suggests that we will finish in the top places. Its a question of belief, really. Yes we need to play teams that may be competing for top four, but we have already beaten Spurs twice for the first time in 8 seasons; Liverpool; Chelsea twice in the last year. We have found consistency that we lacked formerly and there is more reason for reason for optimism than for assuming we will lose against all the teams you have mentioned.

What I take issue with is the suggestion that we are only where we are because the traditional top teams have been inconsistent. Again, football evolves and with the money and talent flowing to the EPL other teams are undoubtedly uppoing their game, and this is to an extent why we are seeing 'anomalous' results week on week. So far, we are the team that has weathered this storm best.

I agree that we may fall short of the title - and the main reason for this (if it happens) will be fatigue and injuries that mean we can't play our first 11. But based on the evidence of this season my prediction is that the inconsistency of our competitors is more likely to continue than not.

[IBK]

Finally, we got there :)



The funny thing, besides Mudryk, which we royally bungled, I have not insisted we sign anyone.

I have been consistent about my assessment of the team, our weakness is in the centre, we get someone of quality there then I am more than happy. But if we bungle the title because our weakness comes back to haunt us (and more importantly we did nothing about addressing it) I will hold the club responsible. Simple.

Every single post I have put out is saying the club should IMO be trying their best off the pitch (go the extra mile) because I am not seeing any evidence that suggests they are.

BTW I doubt anyone can accuse me of panicking or being on the edge, surely that label is better suited to those who refuse to accept the obvious i.e. we are favourites and will clinch a CL place.

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying here. But like HCZ my view is that if there is a criticism to make over our transfer business it is more pertinent to look at last Summer rather than this January - which tends to be a transfer season for panic buys rather than proper squad planning. I think the truth is that back in the Summer, the club was not expecting to be in a title race. The real disappointment of Mudryk was that he did not fit into the panic buy category, but did we bungle this? I don't really think so. At this point the 'bungle' won't be failing to break the bank on a largely untested player, it will be not having a Plan B to strengthen the squad sensibly to at least try to capitalise on where we find ourselves. I'll reserve judgment on this point until the end of the window.

[selassie]

Understand all that. But on the anomaly point - football progresses, and while you can of course say that our league position is a divergence from recent years I don't think that you can look at past seasons to assume that this trend will continue for Arsenal this season. The evidence is before our eyes. Arsenal is clearly a team on an upward trajectory and extrapolating from our performances this season suggests that we will finish in the top places. Its a question of belief, really. Yes we need to play teams that may be competing for top four, but we have already beaten Spurs twice for the first time in 8 seasons; Liverpool; Chelsea twice in the last year. We have found consistency that we lacked formerly and there is more reason for reason for optimism than for assuming we will lose against all the teams you have mentioned.

What I take issue with is the suggestion that we are only where we are because the traditional top teams have been inconsistent. Again, football evolves and with the money and talent flowing to the EPL other teams are undoubtedly uppoing their game, and this is to an extent why we are seeing 'anomalous' results week on week. So far, we are the team that has weathered this storm best.

I agree that we may fall short of the title - and the main reason for this (if it happens) will be fatigue and injuries that mean we can't play our first 11. But based on the evidence of this season my prediction is that the inconsistency of our competitors is more likely to continue than not.

:gp:

Top post as usual IBK and it's where I see things too so I am in total agreement. The performances and results over the past year clearly back up the emergence of this team as a true title contender. We are not top because our rivals are perceived to be struggling, we are top because our performances and results have been near flawless this season. The signs were there last season.

Taking this into consideration, I have had a good think and I am prepared to wait to an extent for us to buy the "right" players at the "right" time. If it means no purchases this window then so be it. We will finish where we will finish and I don't really think any signing will guarantee the title at this point in time anyway.

I guess what I am saying is at this point I will put trust in Arteta and Edu to improve the squad with the right signings and not just a signing for the sake of it.

[Marc Overmars]

Linked with Declan Rice for a summer move.

Would be probably cost something stupid but I quite like him and I think he’d be a good fit.

[selassie]

Linked with Declan Rice for a summer move.

Would be probably cost something stupid but I quite like him and I think he’d be a good fit.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/16/arsenal-declan-rice-top-summer-transfer-target-optimistic-west-ham-chelsea

Yeah just seen that and have seen he is open to a move. Not sure how we will pull this one off as I think Chelsea will undoubtedly get involved, Man United too...though I think he wants to stay in London so it's between us and Chelsea. Chelsea will do their usual most likely though regardless of whether they can actually find a place for them in their team :rolleyes:

[Marc Overmars]

Understand all that. But on the anomaly point - football progresses, and while you can of course say that our league position is a divergence from recent years I don't think that you can look at past seasons to assume that this trend will continue for Arsenal this season. The evidence is before our eyes. Arsenal is clearly a team on an upward trajectory and extrapolating from our performances this season suggests that we will finish in the top places. Its a question of belief, really. Yes we need to play teams that may be competing for top four, but we have already beaten Spurs twice for the first time in 8 seasons; Liverpool; Chelsea twice in the last year. We have found consistency that we lacked formerly and there is more reason for reason for optimism than for assuming we will lose against all the teams you have mentioned.

What I take issue with is the suggestion that we are only where we are because the traditional top teams have been inconsistent. Again, football evolves and with the money and talent flowing to the EPL other teams are undoubtedly uppoing their game, and this is to an extent why we are seeing 'anomalous' results week on week. So far, we are the team that has weathered this storm best.

I agree that we may fall short of the title - and the main reason for this (if it happens) will be fatigue and injuries that mean we can't play our first 11. But based on the evidence of this season my prediction is that the inconsistency of our competitors is more likely to continue than not.

Agreed. Our current points haul would have us challenging for the league every season and is also in keeping with the ridiculous runs Man City and Liverpool have had in recent years. So I don’t believe the form of others has had much to do with it, we’ve been incredibly good bar the Leeds game which I think we can all agree we were lucky to win.

However granted, things can turn very quickly and this week is one of those moments. United could be 3 points behind us by Sunday evening and then suddenly there’s a very different feel about things.

No doubt this team has earned more trust than any Arsenal side has over the past 10-15 years though. So it’s not a given that mistakes of the past will come back to haunt us. We’re playing better than we ever have done but most importantly winning a lot of games that we previously wouldn’t have.

[IBK]

Agreed. Our current points haul would have us challenging for the league every season and is also in keeping with the ridiculous runs Man City and Liverpool have had in recent years. So I don’t believe the form of others has had much to do with it, we’ve been incredibly good bar the Leeds game which I think we can all agree we were lucky to win.

However granted, things can turn very quickly and this week is one of those moments. United could be 3 points behind us by Sunday evening and then suddenly there’s a very different feel about things.

No doubt this team has earned more trust than any Arsenal side has over the past 10-15 years though. So it’s not a given that mistakes of the past will come back to haunt us. We’re playing better than we ever have done but most importantly winning a lot of games that we previously wouldn’t have.

Yep - although United will be six points behind us if they beat us :good:

[Marc Overmars]

Yep - although United will be six points behind us if they beat us :good:

They’ve got Palace tomorrow night.

Not sure why we’re not playing Everton, as I believe they’re the fixtures that were postponed when the Queen died.

[selassie]

Yep - although United will be six points behind us if they beat us :good:

I am hoping they drop points at Palace because they are quietly going about their business and racking up the points. United are a good side, but I personally think we are the better team. It's going to be a decent game on Sunday, pretty close and quite tense but if we play to our strengths then at the worst we will draw IMO.

[IBK]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/16/arsenal-declan-rice-top-summer-transfer-target-optimistic-west-ham-chelsea

Yeah just seen that and have seen he is open to a move. Not sure how we will pull this one off as I think Chelsea will undoubtedly get involved, Man United too...though I think he wants to stay in London so it's between us and Chelsea. Chelsea will do their usual most likely though regardless of whether they can actually find a place for them in their team :rolleyes:

Yes I was intrigued by this. I understand that Arsenal 'leaked' the news, so trying to understand why this potentially helps this potetial transfer...

[IBK]

They’ve got Palace tomorrow night.

Not sure why we’re not playing Everton, as I believe they’re the fixtures that were postponed when the Queen died.

Ah yes - forgot this...with us not having a midweek game. Alas Palace aren't very good at present...

[selassie]

Yes I was intrigued by this. I understand that Arsenal 'leaked' the news, so trying to understand why this potentially helps this potetial transfer...

Yeah if we leaked it then we are probably playing games with Chelsea. I personally can't see us pulling off the Rice transfer, I think he is a too good a player for any of our top 4 rivals to ignore if he does become available, we certainly won't get a free run at him. He will go for big money too, regardless of his contract situation. Can't see how we would get involved.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Just my opinion of course but I think many people can credibly accuse you of panicking, I’d go as far as to say that since Saturday you’ve been figuratively spraying molten effluence in all directions.

Its your opinion. The same way my opinion is that you and your ilk have a serious case of "small club syndrome" and are one of the numerous enablers that have allowed this club to sink to such a rut; I mean its so bad that you are struggling to even fathom a title push after almost half the season gone!! In the good old days even when we were 9 points behind at this stage, most of fandom never gave up. Anyway....it is what it is.



Do we need squad strengthening? Yes

Is January ever a good time to do it? No, January is for sticking plasters. So for me it’s far more logical to be annoyed with what the club didn’t do in the Summer. I’m not even convinced the January transfer window should exist aside from emergency loans or free transfers…it seems completely for the benefit of keeping Jim White in work.

Where do I start on this?

The funny thing about every single assertion you have made so far is you have put no evidence to support it. To think I am the one accused of acting like a woman, despite all your arguments being based on your "feelings" and safe repetitive balderdash that you re-echo from major posters on this forum. I could waste my time listing the Anelkas, Arshavins and Aubas we have signed in January, but you will still go back to your default groupthink.

The thing is you admit, like I do, that we didn't do enough in the summer to cover our weak spots. So what's wrong in having and taking advantage of a chance to correct it for the other half of the season? You even admit that we haven't won the league because we have half of our games to go, surely that suggests that putting in maximum effort to ensure your other half of the season goes well can't be a bad thing. Especially when its clear rivals are also making good use of it to address their inadequacies. Or is the whole world mad and we are the only ones who are sane?

I suggest sometimes we take a break and think "independently" about things. The idea of a place like this should be for us to exchange ideas and not just reverberate the company stance while patting ourselves on the back.



Is losing out on Mudryk to Chelsea disappointing? Yes


Is signing someone like Raphinia or Trossard…the equivalent of banging the ugly girl next door because the one you were really after ended up shagging your nemesis ? Also yes. Might feel good at the time, but has no real benefit and if she ends up pregnant you’re completely fucked.

Again, like I've said over and over again, I'm not fully convinced we need another winger, so you won't get much of an argument from me on this.


4th is not done till it’s done. We lost seven games in the period between January and May last year if you don’t think that many defeats would a) not happen b) not seriously imperil us getting in the top 4…I don’t know what to tell you. That’s not panic, you may think it negative I see it as cold hearted pragmatism to explore the worst case scenario.

Yeah I do think there is a possibility of us not making 4th, it involves Partey breaking his leg in February and not having adequate backup :)

[Mac76]

Yes I was intrigued by this. I understand that Arsenal 'leaked' the news, so trying to understand why this potentially helps this potetial transfer...

maybe they're trying to alleviate fans' disappointment at missing our on Mudryk and even perhaps trying to prepare them for our not signign anyone in January.

this article sums up our position fairly well: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/16/stakes-are-high-for-arsenal-as-arteta-decides-whether-to-stick-or-twist

It's always going to be a subjective question and while i get the point about nto overpaying or getting people who distrupt the squad, equally we'll be kickingn ourselves if we end of being a player or two short when we needed them.


The Newcastle game showed what happens when Plan A isn't working - we had next to no-one to bring on to change the game.

So i still think if we coudl get one or two decent players to fill gaps and add a bit of variation, even if just on loan so it's not a long-term commitment, it would be very worthwhile and insure us against injury and fatigue.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying here. But like HCZ my view is that if there is a criticism to make over our transfer business it is more pertinent to look at last Summer rather than this January - which tends to be a transfer season for panic buys rather than proper squad planning. I think the truth is that back in the Summer, the club was not expecting to be in a title race. The real disappointment of Mudryk was that he did not fit into the panic buy category, but did we bungle this? I don't really think so. At this point the 'bungle' won't be failing to break the bank on a largely untested player, it will be not having a Plan B to strengthen the squad sensibly to at least try to capitalise on where we find ourselves. I'll reserve judgment on this point until the end of the window.

Let me make this clear, I wanted Mudryk because I believed in the club's assessment that he is an exceptional player and could take us further for years to come.

Not once did I indicate that the Mudryk signing meant we would win the league or he would be able to play every position on the field including Partey's.

However, the unusual deal for a soon to be world class player, suggested to me that my club was ready to push on, and leave their comfort zone and do what it takes to mix with the big boys "PERMANENTLY". Buying talented players you don't seem to need now is what big clubs have done for ages and evidence shows it does workout. Lets not forget the reality that 2 of our star wingers have just one year left in the club and we are struggling to get them to extend.

Anyway, thats what Mudryk meant and the manner by which he went to a direct rival only makes the annoyance worse.

But back to what we all agree on, our squad is wafer thin and IMO one injury away from being totally average. Strengthening the squad with every opportunity we get is a no brainer and I struggle to see what exactly there is to argue about on this fact.

[IBK]

maybe they're trying to alleviate fans' disappointment at missing our on Mudryk and even perhaps trying to prepare them for our not signign anyone in January.

this article sums up our position fairly well: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/16/stakes-are-high-for-arsenal-as-arteta-decides-whether-to-stick-or-twist

It's always going to be a subjective question and while i get the point about nto overpaying or getting people who distrupt the squad, equally we'll be kickingn ourselves if we end of being a player or two short when we needed them.


The Newcastle game showed what happens when Plan A isn't working - we had next to no-one to bring on to change the game.

So i still think if we coudl get one or two decent players to fill gaps and add a bit of variation, even if just on loan so it's not a long-term commitment, it would be very worthwhile and insure us against injury and fatigue.

Really good article :good:

My hunch is that we will bring someone in. My concern is that this will be a deviation from our long term plans. Should the club act to appease the manager and avoid accusations that no attempt was made after Mudryk to try to capitalise on our current league position? I'd say yes - but only for teh right player. It remains to be seen whether he is out there and available.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

maybe they're trying to alleviate fans' disappointment at missing our on Mudryk and even perhaps trying to prepare them for our not signign anyone in January.

this article sums up our position fairly well: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/16/stakes-are-high-for-arsenal-as-arteta-decides-whether-to-stick-or-twist

It's always going to be a subjective question and while i get the point about nto overpaying or getting people who distrupt the squad, equally we'll be kickingn ourselves if we end of being a player or two short when we needed them.


The Newcastle game showed what happens when Plan A isn't working - we had next to no-one to bring on to change the game.

So i still think if we coudl get one or two decent players to fill gaps and add a bit of variation, even if just on loan so it's not a long-term commitment, it would be very worthwhile and insure us against injury and fatigue.

Yup, I remember saying/thinking during the game, that with the squad we had, even if we played Newcastle for an extra 90mins, we still wouldn't score.

Got to agree with your post.

[IBK]

Let me make this clear, I wanted Mudryk because I believed in the club's assessment that he is an exceptional player and could take us further for years to come.

Not once did I indicate that the Mudryk signing meant we would win the league or he would be able to play every position on the field including Partey's.

However, the unusual deal for a soon to be world class player, suggested to me that my club was ready to push on, and leave their comfort zone and do what it takes to mix with the big boys "PERMANENTLY". Buying talented players you don't seem to need now is what big clubs have done for ages and evidence shows it does workout. Lets not forget the reality that 2 of our star wingers have just one year left in the club and we are struggling to get them to extend.

Anyway, thats what Mudryk meant and the manner by which he went to a direct rival only makes the annoyance worse.

But back to what we all agree on, our squad is wafer thin and IMO one injury away from being totally average. Strengthening the squad with every opportunity we get is a no brainer and I struggle to see what exactly their is to argue about on this fact.

I didn't suggest that you guaranteed that Mudryk would win us the league, merely warned against the risks of a (fan - not your) mindset that signings guarantee success, and referenced these in seeing the Mudryk disppointment in context. FWIW I agree 100% with your position that Mudryk was far more than a panic buy- which I agree makes our failure to land him deflating. Still feel that this from the Guardian article sums things up well and tempers the suggestion that we bungled the deal, though.

It was another example of the clanging nuisance Todd Boehly and company have made of themselves in the market: they have shaken things up to their liking, in the short term at least, but Arsenal are among those who would rather avoid being dragged into the maelstrom. After all it is currently their modus operandi, not that of Chelsea’s new regime, bringing results.

Like I say, I support strenghtening the squad now - but only if the player is right and fits our longer term plans...

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I didn't suggest that you guaranteed that Mudryk would win us the league, merely warned against the risks of a (fan - not your) mindset that signings guarantee success, and referenced these in seeing the Mudryk disppointment in context. FWIW I agree 100% with your position that Mudryk was far more than a panic buy- which I agree makes our failure to land him deflating. Still feel that this from the Guardian article sums things up well and tempers the suggestion that we bungled the deal, though.

It was another example of the clanging nuisance Todd Boehly and company have made of themselves in the market: they have shaken things up to their liking, in the short term at least, but Arsenal are among those who would rather avoid being dragged into the maelstrom. After all it is currently their modus operandi, not that of Chelsea’s new regime, bringing results.

Like I say, I support strenghtening the squad now - but only if the player is right and fits our longer term plans...

Yeah I read the Guardian article, nice but says pretty much what we've been saying on here already....in fact I could accuse the guy of being on Gweb.

From what you've said, my disagreement with you is that I wont change my stance that we messed up the Mudryk deal (seeing as I called out our dithering even before it became fatal).

Also like Mac76 pointed out, I don't think all our signings have to be about thinking about the long term...I support anything that strengthens the squad now (loans, recalls, whatever). It should be clear to all that we tried our darndest to get over the line this season.

Some people are petrified of getting egg all over their face, I'm not one.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Really good to read..though probably more ammo for those who might not want to strengthen the squad :)
https://www.goal.com/en-ng/news/arsenal-defender-white-explains-dressing-room-togetherness-success/blt8a730db706a9f6a5

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

And finally, to those whose arguement that the money for Mudryk was ludicrous and we did things the right way.....enjoy the read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/football/1305291/shakhtar-ceo-arsenal-chelsea-mudryk-transfer/amp/

Could say I told you so, but I'm not Letters lol

[HCZ_Reborn]

Understand all that. But on the anomaly point - football progresses, and while you can of course say that our league position is a divergence from recent years I don't think that you can look at past seasons to assume that this trend will continue for Arsenal this season. The evidence is before our eyes. Arsenal is clearly a team on an upward trajectory and extrapolating from our performances this season suggests that we will finish in the top places. Its a question of belief, really. Yes we need to play teams that may be competing for top four, but we have already beaten Spurs twice for the first time in 8 seasons; Liverpool; Chelsea twice in the last year. We have found consistency that we lacked formerly and there is more reason for reason for optimism than for assuming we will lose against all the teams you have mentioned.

What I take issue with is the suggestion that we are only where we are because the traditional top teams have been inconsistent. Again, football evolves and with the money and talent flowing to the EPL other teams are undoubtedly uppoing their game, and this is to an extent why we are seeing 'anomalous' results week on week. So far, we are the team that has weathered this storm best.

I agree that we may fall short of the title - and the main reason for this (if it happens) will be fatigue and injuries that mean we can't play our first 11. But based on the evidence of this season my prediction is that the inconsistency of our competitors is more likely to continue than not.


I think the problem here is you seem to be describing what you think is most likely, and I’m describing what is possible.


I assume nothing, my explanation has been to provide evidence why it cannot be assumed we have secured top four let alone can launch a sustained title challenge. And the fundamental rationale I provide is that it’s just too early, the season isn’t old enough to assume that Arsenal’s form isn’t just anomalous based on a) our previous seasons and b) the previous seasons of the teams we are ahead of in the league.
I don’t believe anything I’ve said is fatalistic, or even suggests that the likelihood that “reality will assert itself” or some such thing. It’s simply to say we are 18 games in, it’s far too early to make any confident extrapolation.

Do I accept that it’s possible that the indifferent form of other sides will continue where as we will remain reasonably consistent? Yes because as you’ve stated there is evidence for that. Our form has actually followed a pattern, five wins…points dropped, four wins, points dropped, five wins, points dropped…now if that pattern continues you could maybe expect us to win the next three league games before we lose or draw.

But when I said anomalous I also mean unprecedented and it’s hard to predict the future without at least some reference of what has gone before, and whilst the short term future suggests our form will continue in that we seem to have avoided long winless runs…I don’t think there’s enough to suggest with any degree of confidence that will continue. But equally there’s also nothing strongly to say it won’t.

I don’t think we are favourites for the title purely because we’ve played 18 games. There’s too many variables and uncertainty out there.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And finally, to those whose arguement that the money for Mudryk was ludicrous and we did things the right way.....enjoy the read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/football/1305291/shakhtar-ceo-arsenal-chelsea-mudryk-transfer/amp/

Could say I told you so, but I'm not Letters lol

I’m genuinely at a loss as to what you think you’ve proven here

Are you literally saying we did the wrong thing by tapping the player up?

Cos I’m not sure you’d have been saying that had it been successful

And I’m not in anyway sure why you think this article proves that the money (both in terms of the transfer fee and wages) wasn’t ludicrous. In fact I think it’s more than likely that Chelsea had to offer Mudryk silly wages in order to turn his head sufficiently.

But given your whole argument is doing what it takes to get the player you want, your assertion that somehow we behaved in an underhand way lacks for logic i am afraid to say.

As for Chelsea, this is a club with a history of tapping players up, need I remind you of Ashley Cole. And it proves their transfer strategy is rather superficial in the sense of “Arsenal want this player, so he might be good…let’s sign him”. Now if that’s how they want to operate that’s up to them.

The only reasonable critique that can be made is a potential failure to earmark any alternative that ticks many of the same boxes as Mudryk, and you’ve taken great exception to the idea that if the only alternatives are Trossard or Raphinia…it’d be better to keep our hands in our pockets.

To be Frank with you, I think you’re lacking for a consistent argument to justify your tantrum throwing and you’re now in the desperation of throwing anything at the wall and seeing if it sticks

[IBK]

Yeah I read the Guardian article, nice but says pretty much what we've been saying on here already....in fact I could accuse the guy of being on Gweb.

From what you've said, my disagreement with you is that I wont change my stance that we messed up the Mudryk deal (seeing as I called out our dithering even before it became fatal).

Also like Mac76 pointed out, I don't think all our signings have to be about thinking about the long term...I support anything that strengthens the squad now (loans, recalls, whatever). It should be clear to all that we tried our darndest to get over the line this season.

Some people are petrified of getting egg all over their face, I'm not one.

Don't think we really have a disagreement mate. Your stance is a legitimate opinion - I guess I just blame Chelsea and their financial oppression more than Arsenal...and understand our reluctance to be played off.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Its your opinion. The same way my opinion is that you and your ilk have a serious case of "small club syndrome" and are one of the numerous enablers that have allowed this club to sink to such a rut; I mean its so bad that you are struggling to even fathom a title push after almost half the season gone!! In the good old days even when we were 9 points behind at this stage, most of fandom never gave up. Anyway....it is what it is.



Where do I start on this?

The funny thing about every single assertion you have made so far is you have put no evidence to support it. To think I am the one accused of acting like a woman, despite all your arguments being based on your "feelings" and safe repetitive balderdash that you re-echo from major posters on this forum. I could waste my time listing the Anelkas, Arshavins and Aubas we have signed in January, but you will still go back to your default groupthink.

The thing is you admit, like I do, that we didn't do enough in the summer to cover our weak spots. So what's wrong in having and taking advantage of a chance to correct it for the other half of the season? You even admit that we haven't won the league because we have half of our games to go, surely that suggests that putting in maximum effort to ensure your other half of the season goes well can't be a bad thing. Especially when its clear rivals are also making good use of it to address their inadequacies. Or is the whole world mad and we are the only ones who are sane?

I suggest sometimes we take a break and think "independently" about things. The idea of a place like this should be for us to exchange ideas and not just reverberate the company stance while patting ourselves on the back.



Again, like I've said over and over again, I'm not fully convinced we need another winger, so you won't get much of an argument from me on this.


Yeah I do think there is a possibility of us not making 4th, it involves Partey breaking his leg in February and not having adequate backup :)


The difference is my opinion is based on what you’re saying, your opinion is based on how you’re reacting to what you think I’m saying.

But yet you correct yourself half way through your post, first of all to say that I’ve behaving like a woman by not being confident enough to say we are favourites for the title only to then actually agree with the logic that means I’ve come to that conclusion.

And people like me have kept us unambitious? I love that you hold me in such high esteem that you think I had any ability to influence any decision taking by this club in the last fifteen years. I’d love it if I felt that Edu came on this car crash of a site and thought “HCZ thinks we should do this, better heed his sage counsel”. But ultimately you’re suffering from a delusional mindset…it’s a bit like how idiots blocking traffic think they are shaping the dialogue in any meaningful or constructive way.

What you and I think or how we behave in relation to this club…simply does not matter. This site is for the purposes of distraction, for Arsenal fans bored of their job, or their screaming ungrateful kids or their wife who every day they find that little less attractive.

That’s as far as our influence extends…if what I wanted to happen happened, Wenger would have been gone after the 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford. And we’d have signed a lot of players we didn’t sign, and I say with the benefit of hindsight that it would have been completely hit and miss whether it worked or not.

There have been transfers we’ve missed out on and failed opportunities that make me seeth, I would have liked to see us sign Mudryk…and I don’t think I’ve said our transfer strategy is perfect or even non sub optimal. It’s just on the balance, I can’t find it within me to feel too bad about a player that was signed for almost twice his realistic value on a silly contract.

You call it small club mentality and have presented no evidence of any big club that hasn’t ultimately made a Rod for its own back behaving that way.

[IBK]

I think the problem here is you seem to be describing what you think is most likely, and I’m describing what is possible.


I assume nothing, my explanation has been to provide evidence why it cannot be assumed we have secured top four let alone can launch a sustained title challenge. And the fundamental rationale I provide is that it’s just too early, the season isn’t old enough to assume that Arsenal’s form isn’t just anomalous based on a) our previous seasons and b) the previous seasons of the teams we are ahead of in the league.
I don’t believe anything I’ve said is fatalistic, or even suggests that the likelihood that “reality will assert itself” or some such thing. It’s simply to say we are 18 games in, it’s far too early to make any confident extrapolation.

Do I accept that it’s possible that the indifferent form of other sides will continue where as we will remain reasonably consistent? Yes because as you’ve stated there is evidence for that. Our form has actually followed a pattern, five wins…points dropped, four wins, points dropped, five wins, points dropped…now if that pattern continues you could maybe expect us to win the next three league games before we lose or draw.

But when I said anomalous I also mean unprecedented and it’s hard to predict the future without at least some reference of what has gone before, and whilst the short term future suggests our form will continue in that we seem to have avoided long winless runs…I don’t think there’s enough to suggest with any degree of confidence that will continue. But equally there’s also nothing strongly to say it won’t.

I don’t think we are favourites for the title purely because we’ve played 18 games. There’s too many variables and uncertainty out there.

I don't either. I also happen to think that before this season started our aim was top four and that this aim should be achievable, and probably remains the club's priority. CL football will of itself change things fundamentally as regards future transfers.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't either. I also happen to think that before this season started our aim was top four and that this aim should be achievable, and probably remains the club's priority. CL football will of itself change things fundamentally as regards future transfers.

Oh Champions League is eminently achievable. I’m simply stating the fact that we haven’t yet achieved it


If you’re asking whether I think we will get it. The answer is yes…whilst possible I think it incredibly unlikely we will finish lower than 4th.

What has changed is that winning the title is now a laudable goal, it’s not unrealistic. I still think it unlikely but as I’ve said that opinion changes and evolves with time

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think the problem here is you seem to be describing what you think is most likely, and I’m describing what is possible.


I assume nothing, my explanation has been to provide evidence why it cannot be assumed we have secured top four let alone can launch a sustained title challenge. And the fundamental rationale I provide is that it’s just too early, the season isn’t old enough to assume that Arsenal’s form isn’t just anomalous based on a) our previous seasons and b) the previous seasons of the teams we are ahead of in the league.
I don’t believe anything I’ve said is fatalistic, or even suggests that the likelihood that “reality will assert itself” or some such thing. It’s simply to say we are 18 games in, it’s far too early to make any confident extrapolation.

Do I accept that it’s possible that the indifferent form of other sides will continue where as we will remain reasonably consistent? Yes because as you’ve stated there is evidence for that. Our form has actually followed a pattern, five wins…points dropped, four wins, points dropped, five wins, points dropped…now if that pattern continues you could maybe expect us to win the next three league games before we lose or draw.

But when I said anomalous I also mean unprecedented and it’s hard to predict the future without at least some reference of what has gone before, and whilst the short term future suggests our form will continue in that we seem to have avoided long winless runs…I don’t think there’s enough to suggest with any degree of confidence that will continue. But equally there’s also nothing strongly to say it won’t.

I don’t think we are favourites for the title purely because we’ve played 18 games. There’s too many variables and uncertainty out there.

This is one of the things I complained about when having debates with you; you seem not to provide evidence of any of your assertions while making it sound like you are.

Below is a snapshot of the EPL at half year stage last year. It is clear that every single team chasing us, that has a realistic chance of the title, has either equalled or done better than their half term haul last year. By the way, they also all seemed to have all miraculously finished in the top 4 at the end of the year.

Obviously these are just stats and I am not saying they must hold, but why do you frame your arguments like they are logical and based on some sort of empirical evidence while not recognising its just fear thats making you see things the way you are?

BTW I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with being afraid that we will mess it up as we have a consistent history of doing so, but recognise what the basis of your argument is built on and stop trying to dress it up as something else.

https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2021-2022-spieltag/19/halbzeit-2/

[IBK]

The difference is my opinion is based on what you’re saying, your opinion is based on how you’re reacting to what you think I’m saying.

But yet you correct yourself half way through your post, first of all to say that I’ve behaving like a woman by not being confident enough to say we are favourites for the title only to then actually agree with the logic that means I’ve come to that conclusion.

And people like me have kept us unambitious? I love that you hold me in such high esteem that you think I had any ability to influence any decision taking by this club in the last fifteen years. I’d love it if I felt that Edu came on this car crash of a site and thought “HCZ thinks we should do this, better heed his sage counsel”. But ultimately you’re suffering from a delusional mindset…it’s a bit like how idiots blocking traffic think they are shaping the dialogue in any meaningful or constructive way.

What you and I think or how we behave in relation to this club…simply does not matter. This site is for the purposes of distraction, for Arsenal fans bored of their job, or their screaming ungrateful kids or their wife who every day they find that little less attractive.

That’s as far as our influence extends…if what I wanted to happen happened, Wenger would have been gone after the 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford. And we’d have signed a lot of players we didn’t sign, and I say with the benefit of hindsight that it would have been completely hit and miss whether it worked or not.

There have been transfers we’ve missed out on and failed opportunities that make me seeth, I would have liked to see us sign Mudryk…and I don’t think I’ve said our transfer strategy is perfect or even non sub optimal. It’s just on the balance, I can’t find it within me to feel too bad about a player that was signed for almost twice his realistic value on a silly contract.

You call it small club mentality and have presented no evidence of any big club that hasn’t ultimately made a Rod for its own back behaving that way.

Expanding on your theme - there have undoubtedly been transfer disasters and missed opportunities at the other EPL 'big clubs'. The difference with Citeh; Chelsea and Manure is that it matters less as their funding is effectively unlimited. Our model is different and I agree that the stakes are higher for us when it comes to breaking the bank - both in terms of our financing and the method by which we have chosen to try to build success by developing a team rather than buying one.

For me, this is not small club syndrome - its simply acknowledging the reality. I agree with you re Mudryk in this context and we will wait to see whether Chelsea's deliberate distortion of the market in their favour works. i donlt think I've ever wanted a club to fail more...

[IBK]

Oh Champions League is eminently achievable. I’m simply stating the fact that we haven’t yet achieved it


If you’re asking whether I think we will get it. The answer is yes…whilst possible I think it incredibly unlikely we will finish lower than 4th.

What has changed is that winning the title is now a laudable goal, it’s not unrealistic. I still think it unlikely but as I’ve said that opinion changes and evolves with time

Nothing to disagree with here ; )

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’m genuinely at a loss as to what you think you’ve proven here

Are you literally saying we did the wrong thing by tapping the player up?

Cos I’m not sure you’d have been saying that had it been successful

And I’m not in anyway sure why you think this article proves that the money (both in terms of the transfer fee and wages) wasn’t ludicrous. In fact I think it’s more than likely that Chelsea had to offer Mudryk silly wages in order to turn his head sufficiently.

But given your whole argument is doing what it takes to get the player you want, your assertion that somehow we behaved in an underhand way lacks for logic i am afraid to say.

As for Chelsea, this is a club with a history of tapping players up, need I remind you of Ashley Cole. And it proves their transfer strategy is rather superficial in the sense of “Arsenal want this player, so he might be good…let’s sign him”. Now if that’s how they want to operate that’s up to them.

The only reasonable critique that can be made is a potential failure to earmark any alternative that ticks many of the same boxes as Mudryk, and you’ve taken great exception to the idea that if the only alternatives are Trossard or Raphinia…it’d be better to keep our hands in our pockets.

To be Frank with you, I think you’re lacking for a consistent argument to justify your tantrum throwing and you’re now in the desperation of throwing anything at the wall and seeing if it sticks

Dude, not everything I post on here is targeted at you, get over yourself.

Though now i do recall you were the first person to get back at me to question why I called the club a joke IYO (which is clearly wrong now) for not offering the kind of "ludicrous" money that would get this deal over the line.

For the less prickly posters, that link was to show that we still have a lot of work to do to perfect the way we go about getting players and getting what we want.We went about this the wrong way and any unbiased person would agree.

Funnily, I am happy to hear we offered what needed to be offered...it bodes well for us that we do not have an imaginary cap that you and your ilk would like to impose on us to win the Morality cup.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The difference is my opinion is based on what you’re saying, your opinion is based on how you’re reacting to what you think I’m saying.

But yet you correct yourself half way through your post, first of all to say that I’ve behaving like a woman by not being confident enough to say we are favourites for the title only to then actually agree with the logic that means I’ve come to that conclusion.

And people like me have kept us unambitious? I love that you hold me in such high esteem that you think I had any ability to influence any decision taking by this club in the last fifteen years. I’d love it if I felt that Edu came on this car crash of a site and thought “HCZ thinks we should do this, better heed his sage counsel”. But ultimately you’re suffering from a delusional mindset…it’s a bit like how idiots blocking traffic think they are shaping the dialogue in any meaningful or constructive way.

What you and I think or how we behave in relation to this club…simply does not matter. This site is for the purposes of distraction, for Arsenal fans bored of their job, or their screaming ungrateful kids or their wife who every day they find that little less attractive.

That’s as far as our influence extends…if what I wanted to happen happened, Wenger would have been gone after the 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford. And we’d have signed a lot of players we didn’t sign, and I say with the benefit of hindsight that it would have been completely hit and miss whether it worked or not.

There have been transfers we’ve missed out on and failed opportunities that make me seeth, I would have liked to see us sign Mudryk…and I don’t think I’ve said our transfer strategy is perfect or even non sub optimal. It’s just on the balance, I can’t find it within me to feel too bad about a player that was signed for almost twice his realistic value on a silly contract.

You call it small club mentality and have presented no evidence of any big club that hasn’t ultimately made a Rod for its own back behaving that way.

:) great stuff mate.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is one of the things I complained about when having debates with you; you seem not to provide evidence of any of your assertions while making it sound like you are.

Below is a snapshot of the EPL at half year stage last year. It is clear that every single team chasing us, that has a realistic chance of the title, has either equalled or done better than their half term haul last year. By the way, they also all seemed to have all miraculously finished in the top 4 at the end of the year.

Obviously these are just stats and I am not saying they must hold, but why do you frame your arguments like they are logical and based on some sort of empirical evidence while not recognising its just fear thats making you see things the way you are?

BTW I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with being afraid that we will mess it up as we have a consistent history of doing so, but recognise what the basis of your argument is built on and stop trying to dress it up as something else.

https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2021-2022-spieltag/19/halbzeit-2/

And this is why I’m saying you’re responding to what you think I’m saying rather than what I’m saying

At no point have I suggested that what I’ve suggested could happen is what is going to happen.

That’s just what you assume I’m saying, possibly because you’ve skim read my posts and that’s not being critical…my posts are long and I certainly skim read other posts from time to time

[Letters]

And finally, to those whose arguement that the money for Mudryk was ludicrous and we did things the right way.....enjoy the read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/football/1305291/shakhtar-ceo-arsenal-chelsea-mudryk-transfer/amp/

Could say I told you so, but I'm not Letters lol
:blink:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dude, not everything I post on here is targeted at you, get over yourself.

Though now i do recall you were the first person to get back at me to question why I called the club a joke IYO (which is clearly wrong now) for not offering the kind of "ludicrous" money that would get this deal over the line.

For the less prickly posters, that link was to show that we still have a lot of work to do to perfect the way we go about getting players and getting what we want.We went about this the wrong way and any unbiased person would agree.

Funnily, I am happy to hear we offered what needed to be offered...it bodes well for us that we do not have an imaginary cap that you and your ilk would like to impose on us to win the Morality cup.

Again you can’t help yourself

Where did I state that this was intended as a personal dig at me, I’m making the argument that this article proves none of the incoherent outbursts you’ve been making

Also What has morality got to do with anything?

If I have no moral qualm with tapping a player up, I have no moral qualm with us paying a certain amount.

If your argument had been why treat the clubs money like your own, you might have had an argument

But as I’ve consistently pointed out you’ve been content to pummel a straw man…that somehow I think it’s cheating to spend above a certain amount. No I just think it’s not especially wise

[selassie]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12788749/moussa-diaby-arsenal-make-contact-with-bayer-leverkusen-over-possible-transfer-for-france-winger

Looks like we are still searching for a winger. This Diaby fella at Leverkusen I have heard of but can't claim to have seen him play. He was in the French squad at the world cup and has 8 caps. He has a good reputation so that must mean something.

[IBK]

And finally, to those whose arguement that the money for Mudryk was ludicrous and we did things the right way.....enjoy the read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/football/1305291/shakhtar-ceo-arsenal-chelsea-mudryk-transfer/amp/

Could say I told you so, but I'm not Letters lol

Not following this argument:

1. This is an article quoting the Shaktar boss. Of course he is going to spin the saga his way.

2. You say we bungled the deal, yet we are supposed to criticise Arsenal for trying to use all means at their disposal (short of simply bending over and paying an over valuation at the outset) to secure the signing (and let's face it every other transfer involves informal approaches to players). This seems to me to face 2 ways.

3. I think it's naive to believe that approaching the player first was the reason we didn't get the Mudryk signing. It was about the money. Of course it was. And I do not equate failing to pay a stupid valuation figure with bungling the deal.

4. I haven't seen anyone claim that Arsenal did things the 'right' way (whatever that is supposed to mean). People have said that it was right not to be pushed over a red line when it came to money paid up front for the player. There's a difference.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12788749/moussa-diaby-arsenal-make-contact-with-bayer-leverkusen-over-possible-transfer-for-france-winger

Looks like we are still searching for a winger. This Diaby fella at Leverkusen I have heard of but can't claim to have seen him play. He was in the French squad at the world cup and has 8 caps. He has a good reputation so that must mean something.

I don’t know enough about him to comment but I’ve heard good things

The name Diaby feels me with dread though, it would be amusing to sign two players with the surname of former players albeit ones that play in different positions

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

And this is why I’m saying you’re responding to what you think I’m saying rather than what I’m saying

At no point have I suggested that what I’ve suggested could happen is what is going to happen.

That’s just what you assume I’m saying, possibly because you’ve skim read my posts and that’s not being critical…my posts are long and I certainly skim read other posts from time to time

Did I imagine you saying our competitors underperformed in the first half of the season and our topping the league was only an anomaly based largely on their shortcomings?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Did I imagine you saying our competitors underperformed in the first half of the season and our topping the league was only an anomaly based largely on their shortcomings?

No but that’s an observation of where we are, not a prediction of what’s to come

You’ve read that as a reflection upon us, when it’s not. Our form is an anomaly, even going back to our most successful seasons under Wenger we have not accumulated as many points from the amount of games we’ve played. And equally it’s unusual that Liverpool and Man City have dropped as many points as they have.

But you also clearly ignored where I said we were objectively the best team in the league, based on where we are in the table and how we’ve performed.

So you’re guilty of both selective reading and discounting anything I’ve said which you feel wouldn’t prove your argument

As I’ve said to you repeatedly, if you want to argue with an imagined opponent…you’ve only to let me know…because I’m not needed for that

[Marc Overmars]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12788749/moussa-diaby-arsenal-make-contact-with-bayer-leverkusen-over-possible-transfer-for-france-winger

Looks like we are still searching for a winger. This Diaby fella at Leverkusen I have heard of but can't claim to have seen him play. He was in the French squad at the world cup and has 8 caps. He has a good reputation so that must mean something.

He fits the profile of player we need but again we’d probably have to pay an obscene amount of money to prize him away.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He fits the profile of player we need but again we’d probably have to pay an obscene amount of money to prize him away.

My opinion and not the opinion ascribed to me by the silly arse is that that’s a consideration we have to make.

A) do we think the player will improve the side
B) are we going to pay a ridiculous amount more than we would if we signed him in the summer
C) do we think the signing represents a necessity in terms of title ambitions

[Mac76]

btw Mudryk doesn't exactly look happy does he :lol:

https://twitter.com/goal/status/1614631455279452162?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1614631455279452162%7Ctwgr% 5E81da6e95a396470f085772aab09d08c3a99a3663%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.goal.com%2Fen-ng%2Fnews%2Fno-mudryk-no-panic-arsenal-walked-away-chelsea-new-star%2Fblt3ca7a579d1207f82

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Not following this argument:

1. This is an article quoting the Shaktar boss. Of course he is going to spin the saga his way.

I don't get it, spin it his way in what sense? Does he need to be on the defensive? Is it now a criminal offense not to sell your player to Arsenal? Do they need to be defensive about anything when they got what they wanted.

Why can't his part of the story not plainly just be him telling his own eyewitness stance on what happened?



2. You say we bungled the deal, yet we are supposed to criticise Arsenal for trying to use all means at their disposal (short of simply bending over and paying an over valuation at the outset) to secure the signing (and let's face it every other transfer involves informal approaches to players). This seems to me to face 2 ways.

3. I think it's naive to believe that approaching the player first was the reason we didn't get the Mudryk signing. It was about the money. Of course it was. And I do not equate failing to pay a stupid valuation figure with bungling the deal.

Where did I say we should criticise Arsenal for tapping the player up? Is it to hard to read between the lines, even the Shakatar Donestsk CEO isn't saying he's going to report us to FIFA which he can. Why? Because Shaktar are a big club and know they way big clubs work

Anyway please look at my previous posts. My argument has been we did not do what it takes to get this deal over the line...and clearly what it took here was just to meet with their senior people and show all levels of "respect" and seriousness...clearly an ABC in transfer dealings.

I mentioned the Walcott signing mastered by Dein in one of my previous posts. For those of us who are old enough to remember, Mourinho actually confirmed that they offered Southampton more money for Walcott (obviously after they heard we were interested) but they refused to sell, preferring to sell to us. Google is your friend, if you'd like to learn the history of big transfers .

Oh, just read your reply again, you seemed to have missed the part where he clearly says both Chelsea and Arsenal offered the same fee. So your valuation argument is non-existent.



4. I haven't seen anyone claim that Arsenal did things the 'right' way (whatever that is supposed to mean). People have said that it was right not to be pushed over a red line when it came to money paid up front for the player. There's a difference.

Read the article again or other articles based on his interview. We agreed the same upfront fee and the same bonuses as Chelsea. Only the structure of Chelsea's bonuses was slightly different and the club preferred it.

To put things in perspective, they had accepted our upfront offer as at Friday and we were only arguing about the bonus structure. The club irked by our lack of respect let Chelsea know what we offered. Chelsea co-owner flies in on Saturday and meets their owner, offered the exact same thing but tweak the bonus structure we were dithering about. Deal done.

So I am basically being two faced arguing that we bungled this up? How please.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

No but that’s an observation of where we are, not a prediction of what’s to come

You’ve read that as a reflection upon us, when it’s not. Our form is an anomaly, even going back to our most successful seasons under Wenger we have not accumulated as many points from the amount of games we’ve played. And equally it’s unusual that Liverpool and Man City have dropped as many points as they have.

But you also clearly ignored where I said we were objectively the best team in the league, based on where we are in the table and how we’ve performed.

So you’re guilty of both selective reading and discounting anything I’ve said which you feel wouldn’t prove your argument

As I’ve said to you repeatedly, if you want to argue with an imagined opponent…you’ve only to let me know…because I’m not needed for that

So you do accept that you were wrong about our current competitors underperforming in the first half of the season and that the CL spot is practically wrapped up?

I'm trying to make discussions with you shorter if you've not noticed.

[HCZ_Reborn]

So you do accept that you were wrong about our current competitors underperforming in the first half of the season and that the CL spot is practically wrapped up?

I'm trying to make discussions with you shorter if you've not noticed.

No because they have underperformed

Were City eight points behind Liverpool? No if I recall they were top of the league

Liverpool have dramatically underperformed by the standards they’ve set in previous seasons

What you think I mean is that Arsenal are purely where they are on luck. No what I’m saying is that the high standards set in previous years by Liverpool and City in terms of accumulating points hasn’t happened and we’ve benefited from that.

And the mediocre standards we’ve set in previous seasons has been completely chucked out the window too

[Letters]

We'd be top on this points total after 18 games last year too, although City would have been closer.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

No because they have underperformed

Were City eight points behind Liverpool? No if I recall they were top of the league

Liverpool have dramatically underperformed by the standards they’ve set in previous seasons

What you think I mean is that Arsenal are purely where they are on luck. No what I’m saying is that the high standards set in previous years by Liverpool and City in terms of accumulating points hasn’t happened and we’ve benefited from that.

And the mediocre standards we’ve set in previous seasons has been completely chucked out the window too

Yeah, my bad, your post made me recheck the link and I just realised I made a mistake with the way I read the table initially i.e. I was looking at the 2nd half of the season and not the 1st half.

So my assertions on the top 4 and City are wrong.

My take on our performance this season is we've been really good and been EXTREMELY lucky. More luck than I can recall in any season.

Part of it is not having had to play City yet, another part is practically every single time we've met a BIG club, they've not been in form or been having one mini crisis or the other.

The other part is injuries. We've been extremely lucky here too.

The thing is winners will say you need luck to do well and doing well also means you create your luck on the way.

The latter part is what I think has occurred.

But yeah, after my misread, I'll have to concede this one to you.

[selassie]

He fits the profile of player we need but again we’d probably have to pay an obscene amount of money to prize him away.

Seems like 100m euros is the standard fee now for young highly rated wingers. Thank Man United and Chelsea for that!!!

[selassie]

btw Mudryk doesn't exactly look happy does he :lol:

https://twitter.com/goal/status/1614631455279452162?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1614631455279452162%7Ctwgr% 5E81da6e95a396470f085772aab09d08c3a99a3663%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.goal.com%2Fen-ng%2Fnews%2Fno-mudryk-no-panic-arsenal-walked-away-chelsea-new-star%2Fblt3ca7a579d1207f82

:lol:

[selassie]

I don’t know enough about him to comment but I’ve heard good things

The name Diaby feels me with dread though, it would be amusing to sign two players with the surname of former players albeit ones that play in different positions

Aye, thought about the namesake straight away, Diaby and Vieira back at Arsenal!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Aye, thought about the namesake straight away, Diaby and Vieira back at Arsenal!

Yep and I say Dread because Diaby was a player I really genuinely liked, I think Wenger picked a player of real genuine potential, but the fucking injuries….like Wilshere…..he’d have been some player if he stayed fit

[GP]

Abou Diaby was an exceptional player whose career was destroyed by a thug. One of the great "could have been" players

[HCZ_Reborn]

Abou Diaby was an exceptional player whose career was destroyed by a thug. One of the great "could have been" players

Oh the whole Dan Burn thing

Yeah possibly, but football is Darwinism in action at times and maybe a different player would have come back from that injury. And he was still playing for us over six years after the injury, start and stop

Same with Rosicky and Wilshere. Honestly three players I loved watching but just didn’t work out

[Marc Overmars]

I believe Diaby could have been as good as Yaya Toure. Such a shame he had his career robbed from him.

Rosicky was class. I’m sure we could have achieved a lot more with him had he been able to play more. His injury in 2008 played a huge part in our title challenge collapsing.

I don’t think Wheelchair was as good as his early performances suggested but then we don’t really know how much of that was down to his body letting him down time and time again.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I believe Diaby could have been as good as Yaya Toure. Such a shame he had his career robbed from him.

Rosicky was class. I’m sure we could have achieved a lot more with him had he been able to play more. His injury in 2008 played a huge part in our title challenge collapsing.

I don’t think Wheelchair was as good as his early performances suggested but then we don’t really know how much of that was down to his body letting him down time and time again.

Not that it’s a high bar but he was far better than Ramsey in terms of technical ability, game awareness, passing repertoire etc. I think he and Diaby (who always looked like he was the un acknowledged love child of Shaun Goater) would have been an excellent midfield partnership even without Fabregas

[HCZ_Reborn]

There’s currently a Twitter pile on by Arsenal fans against football transfer journalist Fabrizio Romano for apparently ruining the Mudryk deal by….reporting on it.

:haha: Twitter just fucking decays everything it touches, even turns football fans into jihadists

[selassie]

Yep and I say Dread because Diaby was a player I really genuinely liked, I think Wenger picked a player of real genuine potential, but the fucking injuries….like Wilshere…..he’d have been some player if he stayed fit

Aye, Diaby had elite potential, it was a shame with him.

[dostoy]

Every day that passes, the chances of Arsenal signing anyone diminish more and more because the prices go up.

At the end of the month the prices will be far more than they are now.

How did Wolves get Sarabia for 4.4 million ?

It would have been 20 million at least if Arsenal had wanted him.

Should have gone for Gakpo.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Every day that passes, the chances of Arsenal signing anyone diminish more and more because the prices go up.

At the end of the month the prices will be far more than they are now.

How did Wolves get Sarabia for 4.4 million ?

It would have been 20 million at least if Arsenal had wanted him.

Should have gone for Gakpo.


Gakpo? Why?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Every day that passes, the chances of Arsenal signing anyone diminish more and more because the prices go up.

At the end of the month the prices will be far more than they are now.

How did Wolves get Sarabia for 4.4 million ?

It would have been 20 million at least if Arsenal had wanted him.

Should have gone for Gakpo.

Nah they've left it late like you rightly predicted.

Now they've got to sell the whole club and go for Kvaradona or nothing else :)

I'm kinda enjoying how they are trying to save face having our name linked with all the best talents playing for established clubs who we know won't sell.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

.

[Mac76]

Nah they've left it late like you rightly predicted.

Now they've got to sell the whole club and go for Kvaradona or nothing else :)
I'm kinda enjoying how they are trying to save face having our name linked with all the best talents playing for established clubs who we know won't sell.

Yes the Declan Rice stuff is absurd, it's just trying to placate fans getting worried about having no signings when we desperately need to make some.

[IBK]

Nah they've left it late like you rightly predicted.

Now they've got to sell the whole club and go for Kvaradona or nothing else :)
I'm kinda enjoying how they are trying to save face having our name linked with all the best talents playing for established clubs who we know won't sell.

Mate. You criticise the club for its (lack of) transfer business - yet we arguably had the best Summer transfer season of all the EPL clubs in 2021/22 (despite the club being criticised then by some of its supporters for the sums spent on Ben White and Aaron Ramsdale - that now look amazing value, and people asking who Tomyasu was) - and securing Odegard for what now looks like an astonishing £30M.

Many people were in uproar about getting rid of Auba - yet that was again a masterstroke in hindsight, and even missing out on CL football has contributed to us flying high now. Those who wanted us to sign Vlahovic and were like you are now about our failure to do so have egg on their faces now - given his disappointing displays for Juve.

Again last Summer, we had an excellent transfer window - signing transformative players in Jesus and Zinchenko (signed for a paltry £31.5M); a player with real promise for the future in Vieira and a GK that everyone wrote off but who is proving to be a decent No. 2 bought for peanuts.

The result? - 8 points clear at the top of the most competetive league in the world, with the youngest team.

I know we want someone in to strenghten the squad but give your club a break FFS!

[Chippy]

Yes the Declan Rice stuff is absurd, it's just trying to placate fans getting worried about having no signings when we desperately need to make some.

Rice will go to the Chavs:coffee:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Mate. You criticise the club for its (lack of) transfer business - yet we arguably had the best Summer transfer season of all the EPL clubs in 2021/22 (despite the club being criticised then by some of its supporters for the sums spent on Ben White and Aaron Ramsdale - that now look amazing value, and people asking who Tomyasu was) - and securing Odegard for what now looks like an astonishing £30M.

Many people were in uproar about getting rid of Auba - yet that was again a masterstroke in hindsight, and even missing out on CL football has contributed to us flying high now. Those who wanted us to sign Vlahovic and were like you are now about our failure to do so have egg on their faces now - given his disappointing displays for Juve.

Again last Summer, we had an excellent transfer window - signing transformative players in Jesus and Zinchenko (signed for a paltry £31.5M); a player with real promise for the future in Vieira and a GK that everyone wrote off but who is proving to be a decent No. 2 bought for peanuts.

The result? - 8 points clear at the top of the most competetive league in the world, with the youngest team.

I know we want someone in to strenghten the squad but give your club a break FFS!

Mate.I hate to sound like HCZ, but please don't put words in my mouth (seeing as you are doing this for the second time in a row).

Firstly I wasn't one of the people who "criticised" us for spending money on the squad in 21/22... I mean how can anyone who has read anything from me suggest this?! Next, I didn't give a flying "F" about Vlahovic, so please don't go there.

I mean if you're looking for people to ones up on those signings, there aren't that many posts on this board that one can't go back and check so you can get your targets right. I do that once in a while e.g. you were an AW enabler for quite a long time, but all is forgiven :)

Anyway now that I have rebutted those untruths, lets debate a bit.

Firstly I am not going to change my mind that getting rid of Auba the way and manner we did was silly and childish (at least you got this right).... especially with the way our season panned out and the difference he made to Barca on the field and off the field, not forgetting they still managed to turn a profit on him. To think we have people here who make it their job to be our self appointed "Accountants", telling us daily what we should and should not spend...well I wonder what school these degrees are coming from if one does not understand the ABCs of how companies dispose of assets!

Next your assertion is that we have had 2 "Great" transfer windows, yet in your previous posts you've also expressed the sentiment that the squad is lite....please correct me if I am wrong, because if I am not wrong, what exactly are we arguing about mate? Or are transfer windows not meant to make sure you have an adequate squad? ( Doctor : "Oh the organ transplant was great, but you still have to live with leukemia for the next few years ...." )

Anyway I think I get it, maybe it grinds some of us when people think independently and don't regurgitate exactly what Kronke and co want us to.

Well I am definitely never going to be in that alley and I don't need my "actual" opinions to be popular....all I want is the best for my club at every single point in time.

If that annoys some who clearly have 100% blind faith in our current custodians, then so be it.

***Note
...if you wanna do an "I told you so" for a player who hasn't even kicked a ball yet for Chelsea, lets let him kick the ball first eh, an "I told you so" counts at any point in time, just ask Letters :)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

As time ticks on, didn't quite expect my thread title to be so on the money. :ninja:

[Mac76]

As time ticks on, didn't quite expect my thread title to be so on the money. :ninja:

I was thinking that :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

The rumours are this morning that we will not sign anyone in January to put cash aside for the summer

My feeling is if this is the case we should at least make an effort to sign an attacking player on loan. Because we are relying heavily on both Nketiah and Saka, on Martinelli’s side we can at least play Marquinhos or Nelson when he’s fit.

[Letters]

You're forgetting Jesus.
New signings :bow:

[Mac76]

You're forgetting Jesus.
New signings :bow:

it sounds like he won't be back any time soon and will need time to get up to speed

[Marc Overmars]

The rumours are this morning that we will not sign anyone in January to put cash aside for the summer

My feeling is if this is the case we should at least make an effort to sign an attacking player on loan. Because we are relying heavily on both Nketiah and Saka, on Martinelli’s side we can at least play Marquinhos or Nelson when he’s fit.

Saka and Martinelli are starting to fade early in the second half of matches. I’m hoping Smith-Rowe can rediscover his form because he can provide some much needed cover.

[Mac76]

our squad's so thin that I'd take almost anyone right now - if Johnny Clogger from Nowhere FC can be signed as a needs-must target for crosses into the box, let's take him ffs

[GP]

Trossard

[IBK]

Mate.I hate to sound like HCZ, but please don't put words in my mouth (seeing as you are doing this for the second time in a row).

Firstly I wasn't one of the people who "criticised" us for spending money on the squad in 21/22... I mean how can anyone who has read anything from me suggest this?! Next, I didn't give a flying "F" about Vlahovic, so please don't go there.

I mean if you're looking for people to ones up on those signings, there aren't that many posts on this board that one can't go back and check so you can get your targets right. I do that once in a while e.g. you were an AW enabler for quite a long time, but all is forgiven :)

Anyway now that I have rebutted those untruths, lets debate a bit.

Firstly I am not going to change my mind that getting rid of Auba the way and manner we did was silly and childish (at least you got this right).... especially with the way our season panned out and the difference he made to Barca on the field and off the field, not forgetting they still managed to turn a profit on him. To think we have people here who make it their job to be our self appointed "Accountants", telling us daily what we should and should not spend...well I wonder what school these degrees are coming from if one does not understand the ABCs of how companies dispose of assets!

Next your assertion is that we have had 2 "Great" transfer windows, yet in your previous posts you've also expressed the sentiment that the squad is lite....please correct me if I am wrong, because if I am not wrong, what exactly are we arguing about mate? Or are transfer windows not meant to make sure you have an adequate squad? ( Doctor : "Oh the organ transplant was great, but you still have to live with leukemia for the next few years ...." )

Anyway I think I get it, maybe it grinds some of us when people think independently and don't regurgitate exactly what Kronke and co want us to.

Well I am definitely never going to be in that alley and I don't need my "actual" opinions to be popular....all I want is the best for my club at every single point in time.

If that annoys some who clearly have 100% blind faith in our current custodians, then so be it.

***Note
...if you wanna do an "I told you so" for a player who hasn't even kicked a ball yet for Chelsea, lets let him kick the ball first eh, an "I told you so" counts at any point in time, just ask Letters :)

A bit touchy here?

First - I did not personalise my comments re the 21/22 transfer season, nor re Vlahovic. As far as you personally are concerned, I was responding to your criticisms of our lack of busines this transfer window - that hasn't closed yet.

My reference to our recent very good transfer business was to put this criticism in context. I am no mouthpiece for the Kroenke's (if this barb was directed at me). What I like to see is balance, and to lament our failure to get Mudryk over the line (with the additional implication that we screw up transfer negotiations) fails to acknowledge the fact that we have been very good at securing the right players over the past 18 months, and this has been shown by our performance so far this season. For me, acknowledging our successes in the transfer market as well as criticising the 'failures' (and particularly with player sales in recent years there have been plenty) represents independent thought.

There is no contradition in praising our recent transfer business while also recognising that we still need reinforcements. Rome was not built in a day, and for me the club has earned the right to my faith that there is a proper strategy when it comes to doing so. Acknowledging there there will be some setbacks when we are competing with clubs for whom money is irrelevant does not make me a self-appointed 'accountant'. It makes me a realist.

I am pleased that you cite the leukemaia example, because this proves my point precisely. Cancer treatment can still be regarded as successful even if it achieves remission for a number of years rather than complete eradication. It is usually part of a process, and 100% success is often not possible. We should strive for perfection, yes, but in football as in other businesses there are many factors that mean you have to compromise. I respect and understand where you are coming from re the Auba transfer - that is consistent with your condemnation of our transfer dealings with Mudryk - and I don't seek to change this. But there is validity in my view that he was done at Arsenal, and getting rid of him was neither silly nor childish, but part of the process of moving the team forwards - that has proven justified.

I don't have 'blind faith' in those running the club, but I do have confidence that manager and board have a plan, and prepared to trust this.

Still - enjoying the debate.

[WMUG]

Trossard

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

[Mac76]

Trossard

good to see talks happening, definitely should sign him if we can

presumably Ben White has given Arteta the lowdown on what kind of team player he is

[Marc Overmars]

Good move.

Hope he can make the step up and isn’t one of those big fish in a small pond types.

[Chippy]

Saka and Martinelli are starting to fade early in the second half of matches. I’m hoping Smith-Rowe can rediscover his form because he can provide some much needed cover.
Starting to fade :lol:
They play on carpets all year round and are spoon fed to within in an inch of their lives.
Years ago we had one sub and very small squads to play an average of 55 matches per year on thick mud and sand. :oldboy:

[Mac76]

Starting to fade :lol:
They play on carpets all year round and are spoon fed to within in an inch of their lives.
Years ago we had one sub and very small squads to play an average of 55 matches per year on thick mud and sand. :oldboy:

it's all relative and it's about whether all clubs at any time are on a level playing field

our competitors now have larger squads, we are the exception because Arteta wanted to get rid of deadwood and build a close-knit team spirit - all of which is fine except once we have a few injuries we are threadbare

the games are played at a much faster pace now, especially for people like Martinelli - if all other clubs are able to bring on up to five game-changing subs at 70 mins and we can't because there's literally no one to bring on (a la the Newcastle game), that's a big problem

[HCZ_Reborn]

Trossard

My response to this, is the same to my response to a piece of work I was asked to do this morning

Fuck right off

Don’t want him, too old, not that good and sounds like he’s a prick. Honestly don’t see the point.

The only possible benefit to signing this player is that Spurs want him. So that would amuse me, but not enough to make it a good signing

[HCZ_Reborn]

Starting to fade :lol:
They play on carpets all year round and are spoon fed to within in an inch of their lives.
Years ago we had one sub and very small squads to play an average of 55 matches per year on thick mud and sand. :oldboy:

And the game was no where near as Athletic or involved as much running.

Players were still smoking in the dressing rooms until the 1970s at least

[Letters]

Aye, it's an invalid comparison, the game was very different back then.
I saw Adams interviewed recently, he famously used to play drunk or hung over. He said you couldn't get away with doing that these days.
We don't have £60m players sitting on the bench who can affect the game like City do.
BUT, we are a young squad which should mean they last better. We will need to be lucky with injuries though and fingers will be pointed at Arteta and Edu if squad depth does cost us.

[Mac76]

My response to this, is the same to my response to a piece of work I was asked to do this morning

Fuck right off

Don’t want him, too old, not that good and sounds like he’s a prick. Honestly don’t see the point.

The only possible benefit to signing this player is that Spurs want him. So that would amuse me, but not enough to make it a good signing

like i said above, given his zero-tolerance attitude, Arteta would have sounded out his character with Ben White before going for it

as long as we don't offer a silly deal, i'd take a player who's got 7 goals and 3 assists in the PL this season, to help us over the line

and as you say there's the Spuds aspect :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

like i said above, given his zero-tolerance attitude, Arteta would have sounded out his character with Ben White before going for it

as long as we don't offer a silly deal, i'd take a player who's got 7 goals and 3 assists in the PL this season, to help us over the line

and as you say there's the Spuds aspect :lol:

Well I’ll be honest I hope this is a transfer we don’t get done

[selassie]

My response to this, is the same to my response to a piece of work I was asked to do this morning

Fuck right off

Don’t want him, too old, not that good and sounds like he’s a prick. Honestly don’t see the point.

The only possible benefit to signing this player is that Spurs want him. So that would amuse me, but not enough to make it a good signing

I don't want him either, but he adds depth to the squad, he is a decent player too.

Kind of reminds me a bit of when Liverpool bought Shaqiri.

[Chippy]

Trossard

Pretty good for the January transfer window imho.
He would be a useful addition to the squad.
Let's wait until summer to bring in the bigger signings. (Unless those kants from Chelscum interfere).

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

A bit touchy here?

First - I did not personalise my comments re the 21/22 transfer season, nor re Vlahovic. As far as you personally are concerned, I was responding to your criticisms of our lack of busines this transfer window - that hasn't closed yet.

My reference to our recent very good transfer business was to put this criticism in context. I am no mouthpiece for the Kroenke's (if this barb was directed at me). What I like to see is balance, and to lament our failure to get Mudryk over the line (with the additional implication that we screw up transfer negotiations) fails to acknowledge the fact that we have been very good at securing the right players over the past 18 months, and this has been shown by our performance so far this season. For me, acknowledging our successes in the transfer market as well as criticising the 'failures' (and particularly with player sales in recent years there have been plenty) represents independent thought.

There is no contradition in praising our recent transfer business while also recognising that we still need reinforcements. Rome was not built in a day, and for me the club has earned the right to my faith that there is a proper strategy when it comes to doing so. Acknowledging there there will be some setbacks when we are competing with clubs for whom money is irrelevant does not make me a self-appointed 'accountant'. It makes me a realist.

I am pleased that you cite the leukemaia example, because this proves my point precisely. Cancer treatment can still be regarded as successful even if it achieves remission for a number of years rather than complete eradication. It is usually part of a process, and 100% success is often not possible. We should strive for perfection, yes, but in football as in other businesses there are many factors that mean you have to compromise. I respect and understand where you are coming from re the Auba transfer - that is consistent with your condemnation of our transfer dealings with Mudryk - and I don't seek to change this. But there is validity in my view that he was done at Arsenal, and getting rid of him was neither silly nor childish, but part of the process of moving the team forwards - that has proven justified.

I don't have 'blind faith' in those running the club, but I do have confidence that manager and board have a plan, and prepared to trust this.

Still - enjoying the debate.

To think I re-edited the post like 7 times so it wouldn't seem "touchy"....


Anyway, at this juncture I'll probably have to say fair enough mate, if you want to trust in the "process" (whatever that means) and sing kumbaya like everything is fine, it's your prerogative. My sincere hope is that you are proved right.

Till then, I am going continue bellowing about any weakness I spot till we fix it. Just the kind of guy I am..... BTW miss when you use to drop critical posts like this, but hey...



Maybe this thread is a bit previous, given that we have a few hours of the transfer window left - but the noises coming out so far suggest it won't be.

I've been trying to get my head around both the attitude of our manager.

I think its generally acknowledged that we are severely lacking in options up front - and a Giroud injury away from having a serious goalscoring problem. We ran a massive risk not investing in another proper striker last Summer - and are very fortunate that things have worked OK so far - but that's been down to a large extent on Ramsey - whose form had nosedived even before his injury (and who will doubtless now only play a bit part for the rest of the season - we are looking at 10 weeks or more on current prognisis for him to return and hit form again), and Theo, who is out for the season. We might be 'surprised' by Wenger signing a 'stop gap' before 11pm tonight, but even if he does our experience tells us that this is unlikely to be a signing that maintains a realistic title push.

The risk continues in defence - and even in the DM position. We have got where we are this season laregly because of the Merts/Kossy pairing. Vermaelen may be an adequate replacement, or he may not. But beyond him we are in trouble. If Sagna gets injured, Jenkinson has shown frailties. In DM we are relying on a free transfer who has faded since the season began, and is a potential red card waiting to happen (this is not to do Flamini down - but to point out that he is a risk in many respects), and Arteta, who is getting on - and in any event, not a real DM. Our understudy, Coquelin, has been farmed out on loan.

So why is Wenger operating what amounts to a skeleton squad in all these positions? What does it mean in terms of our title/silverware aspirations? To me, its bare minimum CL position preparation. No more.

Yet he spunks 42M on Ozil. With another manager, Ozil's signing would seem like a serious statement of intent. And if it wasn't for the other factors, I'd have said it represented Wenger's first genuine atempt in years to win something. But ATM (and seemingly for the forseeable future) Ozil is like buying the best rifle scope on the market then attaching it to a bog standard rifle. And that's not to mention that Ozil was added to a squad already bloated with attacking MF's. When you consider that Wilshere; Ramsey; Gnabry and the Ox are all AW's pet developmental players, while Rosicky; Cazorla should be considered top first team players it is very strange that he would spend so much on a player who will stunt the development of other players - an excuse that he has regularly used to explain non-investment in other areas.

Even this transfer window appears strange. Spending effort on trying to bring Draxler to the club when first there is no incentive whatsoever for Shalke to sell below his release clause, and secondly he would be very unlikely to make a big difference to our chances of winning something this season anyway. Massive echoes of Suarez in the Summer, really.

And its becoming increasingly difficult to suggest that Wenger's choices are imposed finacially.

This is not supposed to be yet another thread bemoaning lack of transfer activity, its an atempt to understand WTF is going on in Wenger's head. With the perennial injury situation that only an idiot would not anticipate - why is the manager so obviously tying one hand behind his back? Does he honestly think that a gamble that has lost for so many of the last 9 years will succeeed this time? Has he effectively conceded the league to the big spenders - and if so why the Ozil signing? Or does he think that Ozil was necessary simply to keep our CL slot?

If he's conceded the league this season, and with the likes of Ozil and Draxler is looking to future success - why future and not now? Because to me the only likelihood is that its going to get progressively more difficult to compete against financial doping going forwards.

Or is the reality that the world's 4th highest paid manager is more interested in playing the game in his ideal aesthetic way than trying to win serious silverware?

There are bound to be posters who (if they can be bothered at all) reply to this saying that I'm bitching and moaning when we're 1 point off the league - and that Wenger's achieved much simply to get us where we are. For me that's not the point. If we win something this season - great, and well done Wenger. But the reality is that this will be more through luck than planning. What I simply can't understand is why we don't seem to be taking the obvious steps that are in the club's power to make silverware more likely. And that has nothing to do with either improvement or current league position.
http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2723



This was in January, 13/14 season. We were one point off the cusp. We eventually finished 4th, 7 points behind Citeh. Maybe if AW had taken your advice then, maybe he'd still have a job. Who knows ...

[Marc Overmars]

I don't want him either, but he adds depth to the squad, he is a decent player too.

Kind of reminds me a bit of when Liverpool bought Shaqiri.

Yeah and I’m inclined to back the recruitment hit rate at the moment because the majority of our signings over the past 2 years have been slam dunks. I don’t believe we would have been panicked into this, it’s opportunistic granted but the player is PL proven and has also been playing in a good footballing team for a while.

Exciting? No. Smart? I’d say yes. We just don’t the options in this area of the pitch. Marquinhos is for the future, Nelson is rarely available and who knows what kind of Smith-Rowe we’ll see.

[selassie]

Yeah and I’m inclined to back the recruitment hit rate at the moment because the majority of our signings over the past 2 years have been slam dunks. I don’t believe we would have been panicked into this, it’s opportunistic granted but the player is PL proven and has also been playing in a good footballing team for a while.

Exciting? No. Smart? I’d say yes.

Yeah that's how I see it MO. He is a decent player, he is kind of at the wrong age to be called a long term investment hence why I'm not completely keen on him, but he will certainly add quality depth over the next few seasons and we are desperate for quality depth now.

I can definitely get on board with this signing, I suspect we may go big for another attacking player in the summer assuming CL is confirmed which it should be.

I agree regarding our recruitment, it has been spot on. We are also a very well drilled machine now so obviously have a clear plan for Trossard.

[GP]

He's only 28. Sure he's older than some in the squad but it's the prime age for a footballer. It's not some Willian style punt.

[IBK]

To think I re-edited the post like 7 times so it wouldn't seem "touchy"....


Anyway, at this juncture I'll probably have to say fair enough mate, if you want to trust in the "process" (whatever that means) and sing kumbaya like everything is fine, it's your prerogative. My sincere hope is that you are proved right.

Till then, I am going continue bellowing about any weakness I spot till we fix it. Just the kind of guy I am..... BTW miss when you use to drop critical posts like this, but hey...





That was in January, 13/14 season. We were one point off the cusp. We eventually finished 4th, 7 points behind Citeh. Maybe if AW had taken your advice then, maybe he'd still have a job. Who knows ...

Thing is though - you seem to be dealing in absolutes. Over-exaggerating by referring to 'singing Kumbaya' because I point out that the Club has earned a little slack re criticism of its transfer business missses my point.

This is not that there is nothing to improve on. As you have pointed out I agree that we need some back ups in a thinnish squad. I have acknowledged also that over the past few seasons, our return on outgoing players has been lamentable. But I feel that its unfair to criticise our net transfer business while also suggesting that we bungled a deal because we didn't simply accept a selling club's inflated valuation at the oustet. If we are learning some lessons and are a little cautious that's OK with me.

The last line of my 13/14 post that you pasted says 'What I simply can't understand is why we don't seem to be taking the obvious steps that are in the club's power to make silverware more likely. And that has nothing to do with either improvement or current league position' The difference now is (1) its too soon to reach this conclusion in the January transfer window, (2) the whole reason we are where we are in the face of clubs with far greater resouces than those available to us is the team-building and fostering of spirit and togetherness we have accomplished, and changing our strategy as a club to build for sustained success - and I understand that there are therefore some red lines when it comes to transfers. Most importantly, unlike the later Wenger period - we are clearly building towards competing for the league rather than simply settling for top four in the medium term. So while I'm disappointed re Mudryk, I don't feel as frustrated with our current situation as I did then.

[IBK]

Yeah that's how I see it MO. He is a decent player, he is kind of at the wrong age to be called a long term investment hence why I'm not completely keen on him, but he will certainly add quality depth over the next few seasons and we are desperate for quality depth now.

I can definitely get on board with this signing, I suspect we may go big for another attacking player in the summer assuming CL is confirmed which it should be.

I agree regarding our recruitment, it has been spot on. We are also a very well drilled machine now so obviously have a clear plan for Trossard.

I'd agree with that. And as I've said, I have more confidence these days that the club knows what it is doing.

[dostoy]

Trossard is not too old.

Both Partey and Xhaka are both older.

His price yesterday was £10 million, its now £15 million, £20 million to the Spuds and £30 million to Arsenal.

Get him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Trossard is not too old.

Both Partey and Xhaka are both older.

His price yesterday was £10 million, its now £15 million, £20 million to the Spuds and £30 million to Arsenal.

Get him.

Xhaka has been at the club almost seven years, Partey two and a half

The idea of adding anyone to the wage bill pushing 30 now is ridiculous and smacks of desperation. Especially for a winger most of whom will have peaked by Trossard’s age.

A big no thank you from me.

[dostoy]

Xhaka has been at the club almost seven years, Partey two and a half

The idea of adding anyone to the wage bill pushing 30 now is ridiculous and smacks of desperation. Especially for a winger most of whom will have peaked by Trossard’s age.

A big no thank you from me.

Do you live on here ?

[Mac76]

Xhaka has been at the club almost seven years



...for six of which he was shite and now just about passes muster, but is still the offiical weak link

none of which disproves your point but again if it's the right deal and if Trossard's only with us for two-three years what's the problem? - can you not see that with enough players in the squad we could WIN THE LEAGUE this season?

hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

...for six of which he was shite and now just about passes muster, but is still the offiical weak link

none of which disproves your point but again if it's the right deal and if Trossard's only with us for two-three years what's the problem? - can you not see that with enough players in the squad we could WIN THE LEAGUE this season?

hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
:)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Let's face it, technically he's at the level of most of our squad.

My main concern is that Arteta is able to live with his attitude and motivate him.... we don't need anymore Guendozi, Torrerria or Auba soap operas.... especially not now.

[WMUG]

Let's face it, technically he's at the level of most of our squad.

My main concern is that Arteta is able to live with his attitude and motivate him.... we don't need anymore Guendozi, Torrerria or Auba soap operas.... especially not now.

I seriously doubt Arteta would have okay'd the move if he thought that would be an issue.

[GP]

Ornstein says Trossard is a done deal.

[selassie]

Ornstein says Trossard is a done deal.

It's done

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1616103212024754176?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Would it be greedy to ask for another signing? CM please, back up to Partey, the money is there :d

[HCZ_Reborn]

...for six of which he was shite and now just about passes muster, but is still the offiical weak link

none of which disproves your point but again if it's the right deal and if Trossard's only with us for two-three years what's the problem? - can you not see that with enough players in the squad we could WIN THE LEAGUE this season?

hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I don’t get this idea that signing literally anyone helps a title push. If that was the case why not just shove in academy players into the team.

27 million is outrageous money given his contract situation. Look what Everton paid for Maupay….they’ve seen us coming

[dostoy]

Its 20 million plus 7 in possible add-ons apparently.

Good news, if true.

Get him registered before 12pm tomorrow.

He was only 28 six weeks ago, he is not too old.

[Marc Overmars]

A decent PL proven player who should be able to just slot straight in. It’s obviously not deal of the century but considering we showed our hand with Mudryk, there was always going to be an Arsenal tax on whoever we signed.

Also, Brighton triggered a years extension on his contract to protect his value, so he would not have been free in the summer. It’s 21m with add ons to 27m. Presumably if those add ons are met it would mean success for Arsenal too so that would be money well spent anyway.

The price is nothing really these days. This would have been a 10m player 10 years ago but that’s football now.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Confirmed and good to get this window going....but honestly the more I read the way he fell out with the manager the more I fear our Night King will make mince meat of him :haha:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/30964/12790382/leandro-trossard-to-arsenal-gunners-agree-27m-deal-with-brighton-for-belgian-attacker

[mandela8]

Trossard is a very good signing. Very happy with that. £21m for a prem ready, prime years player is excellent value. Arsenal have suffered from losing players for cut prices because the player wanted out often enough, so it's good to have benefited from a similar situation.
He's a big game player too. Always looked good against us has goals against other big teams including the hatrick at anfield a few months ago.

Strengthens our weakest area of the starting 11, with Saka and Martinelli being extremely inconsistent/patchy with their end product.

I get the Partey concerns as that's the highest risk area, but ideally a Partey backup wouldn't see a single domestic start anyway. So the money has went on the right area for me, man.
If we lose Partey we're fucked anyway. Some players just can't be backed up/replaced and he's one of them.

[IBK]

A decent PL proven player who should be able to just slot straight in. It’s obviously not deal of the century but considering we showed our hand with Mudryk, there was always going to be an Arsenal tax on whoever we signed.

Also, Brighton triggered a years extension on his contract to protect his value, so he would not have been free in the summer. It’s 21m with add ons to 27m. Presumably if those add ons are met it would mean success for Arsenal too so that would be money well spent anyway.

The price is nothing really these days. This would have been a 10m player 10 years ago but that’s football now.

This. My view is that this is a good move by Arsenal

- Capitalised on an EPL ready player who is good technically; scores goals and was unhappy at Brighton. As far as I am aware there was no prior history of trouble making with him, so not sure its fair to label him as intrinsically trouble. Who knows the ins and outs of the fall out with his former club.

- People, including me, were saying that we needed some cover. Well we are signing Trossard to help us immediately, not for the future (that Mudryk would have been), so the fact that he is older is not an issue.

- As you say, the price is not outrageous given (1) it's January and well known that we need some bolstering, and (2) the fact that other recent signings have skewed the market. From what I hear he will be on circa £80 per week, so won't upset the wage struture of heap pressure on the contract extensions that we badly need to secure.

- Leaves money in the bank for longer term signings.

Not a great deal not to like here.

[Mac76]

I don’t get this idea that signing literally anyone helps a title push. If that was the case why not just shove in academy players into the team.

27 million is outrageous money given his contract situation. Look what Everton paid for Maupay….they’ve seen us coming

I'll say again - 7 goals and 3 assists in the PL so far this season, that's less than half way through, he's a good addition

[Xhaka Can’t]

Chelsea have finally made another signing!

£29m to PSV for Noni Madueke.