Match reaction vs Everton

[The Wengerbabies]

Pathetic.

Title race was nice while it lasted.

Arteta out.

I'm giving up with football again.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ramsdale 7 - But for him the embarrassment would have been even worse


White 5 - Once again like against United proved to be inadequate


Saliba 6 - Generally solid


Gabriel 6 - Few errors in possession, looked a bit nervous but on the whole ok


Zinchenko 2 - A left back who doesn’t understand what a left back does


Partey 5 - As poor as he was against United, people keep saying his thing is playing through the press but so often the press leads him to shitting the bed.


Xhaka 2 - Waste of good oxygen


Odegaard 2 - Limp wristed pansy


Martinelli 4 - Totally isolated so little point even giving him a grade


Saka 6 - Lacked composure at times but our only decent attacking outlet for two thirds of the game


Nketiah 3 - Did nothing apart from fluff a good chance


Trossard 6 - Came on too late to really make the difference


Jorginho 4 - Another fairy


Vieira 2 - What’s the point of him?


Tomoyasu - can’t be bothered to give him a score

[Letters]

Aye, now we are 5 points clear with no game in hand. No chance.

:rolleyes:

Awful result and performance but you’re going to get days like this.

Need to get going again next game.

[Chippy]

Aye, now we are 5 points clear with no game in hand. No chance.

:rolleyes:

Awful result and performance but you’re going to get days like this.

Need to get going again next game.

Always said it. We are in a race for fourth place. Nothing else.

[Marc Overmars]

16 out of 19 wins before this.

A shit result and performance was overdue.

We’ll see how we react.

[HCZ_Reborn]

16 out of 19 wins before this.

A shit result and performance was overdue.

We’ll see how we react.


It shouldn’t be overdue that’s the problem, forever waiting for the other shoe to drop is half the problem I have with Arteta as a coach.

We didn’t for me play that well against United….they won too many battles in midfield. But we showed guts and determination to power through.

Accepting defeat is something we’ve become too accustomed to, it should make us feel sick to our stomachs and fucked off for weeks afterwards.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

A truly humbling day..... but always best to get these days come early so we learn from them.

Its now 180 mins in 2 games where we have not scored.

In both games our wide men were marked out of the game and we seemed to have no plan B.

The sad thing is that before these two games happened, Newcastle had showed the blueprint on how to play us so we should have been forewarned.

We need to make our possession in the middle count and be able to pose goal threats from playing straight through the middle

So many times in this game you could see Xhaka, Zinchenko and Odegaard be in loads of space in the middle and still pass the ball out wide to heavily marked men. It makes no f**king sense if they expect Saka, Martinelli and Eddie to bail us out with goals every single time....you win games by scoring goals and not the amount of passes you make.

One more important thing: Arteta seems to be the only "top" manager I know who consistently makes the game worse with his subs i.e. his substitutions come to late or never improve the game.

He needs to work on his shit, because you can't always pick the right team on the get go and your team must be able to adapt when it clear the opposition has figured you out.

We met a team today that wanted it more than us and deserved to win....a top manager would have been adequately prepared for the "new coach bounce".

A sad day but we have to get over it fast!!!


Lastly, Eddie needs to learn how to get more involved in games. People criticised Jesus for not always being in the box but the last 2 games should show that coming out and forcing defenders out of position has it's upsides.

Oh and why don't our wingers exchange positions temporarily during the game like we use to do under AW and Emery...it can be effective in confusing defenders in games like this. I think Martinelli tried to force it but Saka was having none of it. Arteta should really consider it as I am sure he is the cause of this not happening.

[Marc Overmars]

It shouldn’t be overdue that’s the problem, forever waiting for the other shoe to drop is half the problem I have with Arteta as a coach.

We didn’t for me play that well against United….they won too many battles in midfield. But we showed guts and determination to power through.

Accepting defeat is something we’ve become too accustomed to, it should make us feel sick to our stomachs and fucked off for weeks afterwards.

It’s not about being accepting of the defeat, no defeat is “acceptable” but it’s about understanding, that quite simply, shit happens. Freak results like this happen in the PL all the time, unfortunately we’re on the wrong end of one today.

Now of course if this mutates into an unforgivable collapse then yeah there’s no defending that, but for now I prefer to look at what we’ve done so far and I’m confident in bouncing back.

It’s a sickening defeat because we’re challenging for the title. In previous years this would have been a typical day at the office that no one would have raised an eyebrow at.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Losing to a team that has been flirting with relegation, three times in a row and four times out of five…or six times out of the last ten. Is more than shit happens, it’s purely and simply not on. I don’t give a fuck if Sean Dyche was in charge or The Ghost of Bill Shankly crossed the Merseyside divide. It’s not on, we can win every game from now until the end of the season…it’s not on.
I don’t do oh it was just an off day. I do “you’re a bunch of mincing fairies and you’ve allowed yourselves to be bullied again”

[Marc Overmars]

I’ll give you that it was very reminiscent of worst of Arteta’s team as seen in previous seasons.

Believe me I’m just as angry as you but I prefer to be objective until I see us fall off a cliff. I’m still very much finding to hard to believe we’re even challenging for the league because I wasn’t even sure we’d finish 4th 6 months ago.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

BTW funny stat, but Partey managed not to be involved in the loss again :haha: :haha:

I would have overlooked it, but seeing as their goal came from a corner due to an uncontested header by a very very weak Odegaard, would we have feared better if he had stayed on?

Some stats I posted earlier here suggest he's actually great at air duels.

[HCZ_Reborn]

BTW funny stat, but Partey managed not to be involved in the loss again :haha: :haha:

I would have overlooked it, but seeing as their goal came from a corner due to an uncontested header by a very very weak Odegaard, would we have feared better if he had stayed on?

Some stats I posted earlier here suggest he's actually great at air duels.

They made us look pretty shoddy from set pieces whilst Partey was on the pitch

There’s no doubt we are poorer without him, but I don’t think we want to attribute invincibility to us when he plays

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

They made us look pretty shoddy from set pieces whilst Partey was on the pitch

There’s no doubt we are poorer without him, but I don’t think we want to attribute invincibility to us when he plays

Not ascribing invincibility to him, but you must admit the goal that beat us today is reminiscent to the goals we loved to concede in the dark days of defending (AW post invincibles and Emery).

I am just looking at the progression of the team in handling set pieces, we do it far better now and I am wondering why.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not ascribing invincibility to him, but you must admit the goal that beat us today is reminiscent to the goals we loved to concede in the dark days of defending (AW post invincibles and Emery).

I am just looking at the progression of the team in handling set pieces, we do it far better now and I am wondering why.

Better defenders

I don’t really care about the goal we conceded. Actually defended ok to be honest. Inability to score at least once against them fucked me off. Too scared of getting kicked to go for it

[selassie]

I didn't see the game but heard we were poor. We are not going to get perfect performances or results every week and I don't expect us to. Losing to that lot is a surprise but we just need to make sure we pick up 3 points against Brentford next Saturday before the big one against City on Wednesday.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I didn't see the game but heard we were poor. We are not going to get perfect performances or results every week and I don't expect us to. Losing to that lot is a surprise but we just need to make sure we pick up 3 points against Brentford next Saturday before the big one against City on Wednesday.

How is it a surprise. We’ve lost at that scabby hole (and yes I can say that I’ve been there enough…ground is an utter toilet) four out of last five visits

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Better defenders

I don’t really care about the goal we conceded. Actually defended ok to be honest. Inability to score at least once against them fucked me off. Too scared of getting kicked to go for it

Now this is something I've always disliked about Arteta..the fact that we score less goals than we should be....I am sure if we pulled out the stats, he's probably had the most non scoring games (Arsenal not scoring) of any manager in the last 30 years. When this season started, goals were coming from everywhere for the first time in his reign...but we seem to have reverted to type again.

He needs to fix this as we are clearly becoming to predictable.

[selassie]

How is it a surprise. We’ve lost at that scabby hole (and yes I can say that I’ve been there enough…ground is an utter toilet) four out of last five visits

It's a surprise because they are down at the bottom of the league and garbage. Mind you we have struggled at Leeds, Southampton & Everton this season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Now this is something I've always disliked about Arteta..the fact that we score less goals than we should be....I am sure if we pulled out the stats, he's probably had the most non scoring games (Arsenal not scoring) of any manager in the last 30 years. When this season started, goals were coming from everywhere for the first time in his reign...but we seem to have reverted to type again.

He needs to fix this as we are clearly becoming to predictable.

Dunno about that, Wenger managed quite a few of those in the last few years of his reign away from home

[Mac76]

Ramsdale 7 - But for him the embarrassment would have been even worse


White 5 - Once again like against United proved to be inadequate


Saliba 6 - Generally solid


Gabriel 6 - Few errors in possession, looked a bit nervous but on the whole ok


Zinchenko 2 - A left back who doesn’t understand what a left back does


Partey 5 - As poor as he was against United, people keep saying his thing is playing through the press but so often the press leads him to shitting the bed.


Xhaka 2 - Waste of good oxygen


Odegaard 2 - Limp wristed pansy


Martinelli 4 - Totally isolated so little point even giving him a grade


Saka 6 - Lacked composure at times but our only decent attacking outlet for two thirds of the game


Nketiah 3 - Did nothing apart from fluff a good chance


Trossard 6 - Came on too late to really make the difference


Jorginho 4 - Another fairy


Vieira 2 - What’s the point of him?


Tomoyasu - can’t be bothered to give him a score

Trossard came on with half an hour and to be fair did his bit to try to make something happen.

I'd give him, Gabriel and Saliba each a 7 but otherwise agree with your scores

Just hoping this game will bust the Zinchenko myth a bit, all the hero-worship's been getting on my nerves

[HCZ_Reborn]

Trossard came on with half an hour and to be fair did his bit to try to make something happen.

I'd give him, Gabriel and Saliba each a 7 but otherwise agree with your scores

Just hoping this game will bust the Zinchenko myth a bit, all the hero-worship's been getting on my nerves


It’s fine to be wise after the event but i think with the power of hindsight we should have started him

[Mac76]

A truly humbling day..... but always best to get these days come early so we learn from them.

Its now 180 mins in 2 games where we have not scored.

In both games our wide men were marked out of the game and we seemed to have no plan B.

The sad thing is that before these two games happened, Newcastle had showed the blueprint on how to play us so we should have been forewarned.

We need to make our possession in the middle count and be able to pose goal threats from playing straight through the middle

So many times in this game you could see Xhaka, Zinchenko and Odegaard be in loads of space in the middle and still pass the ball out wide to heavily marked men. It makes no f**king sense if they expect Saka, Martinelli and Eddie to bail us out with goals every single time....you win games by scoring goals and not the amount of passes you make.

One more important thing: Arteta seems to be the only "top" manager I know who consistently makes the game worse with his subs i.e. his substitutions come to late or never improve the game.

He needs to work on his shit, because you can't always pick the right team on the get go and your team must be able to adapt when it clear the opposition has figured you out.

We met a team today that wanted it more than us and deserved to win....a top manager would have been adequately prepared for the "new coach bounce".

A sad day but we have to get over it fast!!!


Lastly, Eddie needs to learn how to get more involved in games. People criticised Jesus for not always being in the box but the last 2 games should show that coming out and forcing defenders out of position has it's upsides.

Oh and why don't our wingers exchange positions temporarily during the game like we use to do under AW and Emery...it can be effective in confusing defenders in games like this. I think Martinelli tried to force it but Saka was having none of it. Arteta should really consider it as I am sure he is the cause of this not happening.

Agree with most of that and on that last point, I noticed Martinelli move over later on but as you say Saka didn't reciprocate.

Also I think we now need to ask the question about Vieira, against a determined PL side like Neverton were today he seems to have little to offer, he's basically a cup-game filler, not a game-changer

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Dunno about that, Wenger managed quite a few of those in the last few years of his reign away from home

I mean percentage wise...tried asking the all knowing Chat GPT, but it couldn't be bothered either, with the usual excuse of "my knowledge cuts off after 2021".....well I asked it about AW too and it still came up with the same silly answer :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Agree with most of that and on that last point, I noticed Martinelli move over later on but as you say Saka didn't reciprocate.

Also I think we now need to ask the question about Vieira, against a determined PL side like Neverton were today he seems to have little to offer, he's basically a cup-game filler, not a game-changer

I don't want to be premature, but Fabio Vieira does not seem like the kind of player Arteta can get the best out of, thats if you ask me anyway.

I mean, clearly he's a talented player but he doesn't seem like a player who can play in a rigid system like Arteta insists on. He's more like the kind of player who AW would have loved....but lets see.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I mean percentage wise...tried asking the all knowing Chat GPT, but it couldn't be bothered either, with the usual excuse of "my knowledge cuts off after 2021".....well I asked it about AW too and it still came up with the same silly answer :lol:

The worst thing with Arteta is that if we concede the first goal away from home, there is something like an 87% chance of dropping points.

At home not so much of an issue (we’ve conceded first three times at home this season and gone on to win each time)

For me this is largely a midfield issue. Teams can play with men behind the ball and do us on the break because we don't like the physicality

As far as I’m aware we haven’t won an away game after conceding first since 2021 (Leicester)

That’s got to be addressed. We knew as soon as we went 1-0 down today that it was game over

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

People are talking about the subs

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11712985/Arsenal-fans-left-baffled-boss-Mikel-Arteta-brings-Thomas-Partey-new-signing-Jorginho.html

[selassie]

I don't want to be premature, but Fabio Vieira does not seem like the kind of player Arteta can get the best out of, thats if you ask me anyway.

I mean, clearly he's a talented player but he doesn't seem like a player who can play in a rigid system like Arteta insists on. He's more like the kind of player who AW would have loved....but lets see.

I think he will improve once he has adapted to PL and bulked up a bit. I think he has high potential but he is just not ready right now. Not ready in the sense that he can't influence games even though he does do some great stuff in games from time to time.

I think he will improve next season and become more of an option for the team as a rotation player.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The worst thing with Arteta is that if we concede the first goal away from home, there is something like an 87% chance of dropping points.

At home not so much of an issue (we’ve conceded first three times at home this season and gone on to win each time)

For me this is largely a midfield issue. Teams can play with men behind the ball and do us on the break because we don't like the physicality

As far as I’m aware we haven’t won an away game after conceding first since 2021 (Leicester)

That’s got to be addressed. We knew as soon as we went 1-0 down today that it was game over

I said it on the match thread at half time that we could lose the game, but once they scored that early in the half I actually felt we had enough time to draw.

Yes, we don't have another striker but it was rather lame to throw on all the attacking players you have hoping for a goal...IIRC he panicked and did the same thing against Man U.

He should look at tweaking or developing another system of attack when it comes to us going forward. His methods of altering a game really needs to be worked on

[mandela8]

A truly humbling day..... but always best to get these days come early so we learn from them.

Its now 180 mins in 2 games where we have not scored.

In both games our wide men were marked out of the game and we seemed to have no plan B.

The sad thing is that before these two games happened, Newcastle had showed the blueprint on how to play us so we should have been forewarned.

We need to make our possession in the middle count and be able to pose goal threats from playing straight through the middle

So many times in this game you could see Xhaka, Zinchenko and Odegaard be in loads of space in the middle and still pass the ball out wide to heavily marked men. It makes no f**king sense if they expect Saka, Martinelli and Eddie to bail us out with goals every single time....you win games by scoring goals and not the amount of passes you make.

One more important thing: Arteta seems to be the only "top" manager I know who consistently makes the game worse with his subs i.e. his substitutions come to late or never improve the game.

He needs to work on his shit, because you can't always pick the right team on the get go and your team must be able to adapt when it clear the opposition has figured you out.

We met a team today that wanted it more than us and deserved to win....a top manager would have been adequately prepared for the "new coach bounce".

A sad day but we have to get over it fast!!!


Lastly, Eddie needs to learn how to get more involved in games. People criticised Jesus for not always being in the box but the last 2 games should show that coming out and forcing defenders out of position has it's upsides.

Oh and why don't our wingers exchange positions temporarily during the game like we use to do under AW and Emery...it can be effective in confusing defenders in games like this. I think Martinelli tried to force it but Saka was having none of it. Arteta should really consider it as I am sure he is the cause of this not happening.

Pretty good post.

Arteta is just too rigid in both tactics and team selection.

For example, Ben White put in a horrific performance against Man U. Tommy comes on and does well. He does better than most against City then he's dropped, because...

Same with his system which often neuters the attack. With Zinchenko instructed to tuck in side and White being an offensive liability it leaves Saka and Martinelli almost always double teams. That only leaves Eddie ahead of Odegaard when he gets on the ball and looks forward. Xhaka is utterly woeful at playing fitba so not even worth mentioning other than being an offensive black hole.

Today was a great chance to rotate a little with Tommy, Viera and Trossard coming in for White, Xhaka and Martinelli.

[Letters]

Always said it. We are in a race for fourth place. Nothing else.

And you were always wrong and continue to be.
Top 4 was certainly my target pre-season but this isn't a side who are going to be scrapping for 4th place like we were last year.
We're 8 points clear of 3rd place with a game in hand, we're 14 points of 5th place with a game in hand.

[Mac76]

And you were always wrong and continue to be.
Top 4 was certainly my target pre-season but this isn't a side who are going to be scrapping for 4th place like we were last year.
We're 8 points clear of 3rd place with a game in hand, we're 14 points of 5th place with a game in hand.

We've 18 games to play = 54 points. In that context dropping 14 points isn't completely impossible - we dropped 9 in just three games last season.

That said, I realise it's only 14 points if spuds won all their remaining games, which i admit is extremely unlikely, but still, having seen the collapse last season I'm just not ready to say we're comfortably in top four yet, when it gets to 10 games to go, then sure.

[selassie]

And you were always wrong and continue to be.
Top 4 was certainly my target pre-season but this isn't a side who are going to be scrapping for 4th place like we were last year.
We're 8 points clear of 3rd place with a game in hand, we're 14 points of 5th place with a game in hand.

I personally think we will finish at worst 3rd place. If we forget about the title for one minute, our home form alone this season should see us through to a 3rd place finish minimum, we have been excellent at home this season and apart from City, I don't see any team capable of winning at the Emirates for our remaining fixtures. I think our home form is key to any outcome for the remainder of the season. Away from home we are obviously very strong this season but we may well see further slip ups like yesterday.

In the chasing pack below us, aside from City, I don't really see any other side strong enough to catch us up, United is a possibility as they are decent side now and are picking up plenty of wins. Newcastle and the rest I believe we will finish above.

[Marc Overmars]

Top 4 is not a concern, it would be a disaster beyond repair if we missed out from this position now. Football isn’t played on paper and we will possibly drop more points unexpectedly but also win games that we perhaps didn’t expect to either.

I know it’s been a very long time since we had a go at the title but dealing with this angst is something we just have accept as part of the territory. Not a time to overreact after our first real stinker of a result this season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Top 4 is not a concern, it would be a disaster beyond repair if we missed out from this position now. Football isn’t played on paper and we will possibly drop more points unexpectedly but also win games that we perhaps didn’t expect to either.

I know it’s been a very long time since we had a go at the title but dealing with this angst is something we just have accept as part of the territory. Not a time to overreact after our first real stinker of a result this season.

First? Fourth id say

[HCZ_Reborn]

Jesus the amount of people trying to couch their disappointment in “well these defeats can happen in a season”

They happen because you accept them happening. For me we had time to prepare, we had mostly everyone fit and we knew what to expect from a Sean Dyche team. Yet the players acted like it was a sudden shock that their opponents would be physical, close down the space…affect a deep block.

Going 1-0 down and knowing you’ve next to no change of salvaging anything is reprehensible yet all of us on here knew that was going to happen when they went in front.

So yeah still not in anyway philosophical about this. Even if Spurs do us a favour today all we’ve done is spurn an opportunity to make the gap even bigger.

[selassie]

First? Fourth id say

Even if we have only had four stinkers this season then we are clearly doing very well. To be honest, I think yesterday was our second stinker of the league campaign, our first one at Leeds we got away with it, but we should have lost up their too. United defeat wasn't a stinker, we actually played well but got suckered on the counter. Southampton draw we struggled in periods but should have put the game to bed in the first half.

On the whole, our performances so far have ranged between very good and good, we have tended to dominate most games home and away.

The reason I am not panicking yet is because this team does appear to have a fair bit about them. I am expecting us to turn it around next Saturday at home to Brentford. I mean turning it around by playing very well and picking up 3 points, if we keep churning out performances like yesterday then we can forget about any title.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Even if we have only had four stinkers this season then we are clearly doing very well. To be honest, I think yesterday was our second stinker of the league campaign, our first one at Leeds we got away with it, but we should have lost up their too. United defeat wasn't a stinker, we actually played well but got suckered on the counter. Southampton draw we struggled in periods but should have put the game to bed in the first half.

On the whole, our performances so far have ranged between very good and good, we have tended to dominate most games home and away.

The reason I am not panicking yet is because this team does appear to have a fair bit about them. I am expecting us to turn it around next Saturday at home to Brentford, if we don't then yes I will start to panic.


Football is of course an entertainment first and foremost but when you’re going for the title it’s a results and not a performance business. Plus really if you’ve conceded three goals can you really say you’ve performed well? And not actually just ruined all your hard work with naivety.

Leeds didn’t bother me, we were in poor form and showed dogged determination to grind out a result? Did we get a bit of luck along the way as well? Yes but not a stinker for me.

Newcastle at home was a stinker because we couldn’t adapt our play to a team that would go all out to effect a shut out and it’s the exact kind of performance like yesterday where if we were playing away from home we’d have lost.

That’s why I’m so pissed, we don’t learn…adapt our performance to deal with teams that will be a bit cynical…that’s why we often came unstuck under Wenger and had lazy commentators opining that Arsenal don’t like it up em or have a soft underbelly.

[selassie]

Football is of course an entertainment first and foremost but when you’re going for the title it’s a results and not a performance business. Plus really if you’ve conceded three goals can you really say you’ve performed well? And not actually just ruined all your hard work with naivety.

Leeds didn’t bother me, we were in poor form and showed dogged determination to grind out a result? Did we get a bit of luck along the way as well? Yes but not a stinker for me.

Newcastle at home was a stinker because we couldn’t adapt our play to a team that would go all out to effect a shut out and it’s the exact kind of performance like yesterday where if we were playing away from home we’d have lost.

That’s why I’m so pissed, we don’t learn…adapt our performance to deal with teams that will be a bit cynical…that’s why we often came unstuck under Wenger and had lazy commentators opining that Arsenal don’t like it up em or have a soft underbelly.

Maybe we didn't perform well, or at least didn't defend well but we carved out plenty of chances and had United on the ropes for long periods of that game, from the highlights I saw yesterday, we never at any point had control of the game.

Leeds battered us, I have not seen a team dominate us as much as that all season, we absolutely got out of jail in the game.

The Newcastle game was more frustrating, we did carve out some clear cut chances but we were not clinical on the day.

I understand your concerns, but up until now we have been playing very well, the disappointment yesterday comes mainly from the fact we are not use to getting beaten and certainly not in that manner and by a team at the bottom of the table. It is what it is. All we can do is put it right next game and go back on a winning run. What we can't afford to do is produce performances like yesterday on a regular basis, otherwise we will drop many points between now and the end of the season.

[Letters]

They happen because you accept them happening.
Rubbish.
They happen because that’s sport for you.

EDIT: The key thing about a successful team or sportsperson is not to never have setbacks, that just isn’t possible. It’s about how you react.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Rubbish.
They happen because that’s sport for you.

EDIT: The key thing about a successful team or sportsperson is not to never have setbacks, that just isn’t possible. It’s about how you react.

So you can’t look at what happened yesterday and see it as depressingly predictable?

[Letters]

So you can’t look at what happened yesterday and see it as depressingly predictable?

I had a bad feeling about yesterday, we have a baffling bad record there, and there’s the infamous new manager bounce. Yesterday’s result was nowhere near good enough but things like this happen in any season. The important thing is we pick ourselves up and win the next one. I back us to.

But football isn’t that predictable, that’s why bookies are rich and punters aren’t. I didn’t think we’d beat Utd (nor did you), and I was kinda surprised we won at Spurs. Overall we are miles ahead of where any of us thought we’d be at this stage. While we are here you predicted a 1-0 win to us yesterday so how are you now declaring the result predictable? I mean, it was predictable that at some point we’d get a bad result, because that happens to every team every season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I had a bad feeling about yesterday, we have a baffling bad record there, and there’s the infamous new manager bounce. Yesterday’s result was nowhere near good enough but things like this happen in any season. The important thing is we pick ourselves up and win the next one. I back us to.

But football isn’t that predictable, that’s why bookies are rich and punters aren’t. I didn’t think we’d beat Utd (nor did you), and I was kinda surprised we won at Spurs. Overall we are miles ahead of where any of us thought we’d be at this stage. While we are here you predicted a 1-0 win to us yesterday so how are you now declaring the result predictable? I mean, it was predictable that at some point we’d get a bad result, because that happens to every team every season.


Again missing the point, it’s not that the result of this fixture was predictable it was that there was something predictable about if we lose a game this would be how it would come about because we haven’t adequately introduced a plan B to deal with it. I did predict a 1-0 win on the basis that Dyche simply wouldn’t have had the time to set up in a way that would flummox us.

It wasn’t that we played poorly it was that it was so easy for them to put us off our stride.

[Letters]

Again missing the point, it’s not that the result of this fixture was predictable it was that there was something predictable about if we lose a game this would be how it would come about because we haven’t adequately introduced a plan B to deal with it. I did predict a 1-0 win on the basis that Dyche simply wouldn’t have had the time to set up in a way that would flummox us.

It wasn’t that we played poorly it was that it was so easy for them to put us off our stride.

The thing I’m most disappointed about, apart from the result, is the lack of reaction in the second half. I didn’t watch but was following the match thread and it sounded like an awful first half performance. That’s where Arteta has to earn his money, get them going and turn it round second half. The win was still there for the taking. So the failure to do that pisses me off.
But look, it’s gone. All we can do is react well, win the next game and set ourselves up for the City game. By the way this season has gone I think we will, but we could yet collapse which would leave me wondering where we go from here. I feel it’s now or never with the title this year, City aren’t going away, Liverpool will surely not be so poor again next year, Newcastle are on the march and Chelsea are trying to buy success again.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Even if we have only had four stinkers this season then we are clearly doing very well. To be honest, I think yesterday was our second stinker of the league campaign, our first one at Leeds we got away with it, but we should have lost up their too. United defeat wasn't a stinker, we actually played well but got suckered on the counter. Southampton draw we struggled in periods but should have put the game to bed in the first half.

On the whole, our performances so far have ranged between very good and good, we have tended to dominate most games home and away.

The reason I am not panicking yet is because this team does appear to have a fair bit about them. I am expecting us to turn it around next Saturday at home to Brentford. I mean turning it around by playing very well and picking up 3 points, if we keep churning out performances like yesterday then we can forget about any title.

I might be alone but I don't think yesterday's performance was really that bad; I mean the result was terrible and embarrassing but if one watched the game we've played worse than that quite a few number of times and managed to get results.

I feel we were beaten by the better team and here I mean by the team that wanted it far more and upped their game by a 100%. Hopefully we don't come up against teams that play their season's best against us for the remainder of the season, hopefully.

The only thing that worried me is that lack of a plan B when it comes to scoring in games like this; we should be shooting from range, take meaningful set pieces (our corners were dreadful) and sadly even look for penalties, something Arteta did against Newcastle.

The sad thing was it was like our boys stopped being the intelligent group of lads I have come to respect, they insisted on driving forward with a system that clearly wasn't working.

We need to be able to alter the shape of this team meaningfully and I really hope thats what the team will practice these coming days instead of more intensive tippy tappy passing and wing play.

[selassie]

I might be alone but I don't think yesterday's performance was really that bad; I mean the result was terrible and embarrassing but if one watched the game we've played worse than that quite a few number of times and managed to get results.

I feel we were beaten by the better team and here I mean by the team that wanted it far more and upped their game by a 100%. Hopefully we don't come up against teams that play their season's best against us for the remainder of the season, hopefully.

The only thing that worried me is that lack of a plan B when it comes to scoring in games like this; we should be shooting from range, take meaningful set pieces (our corners were dreadful) and sadly even look for penalties, something Arteta did against Newcastle.

The sad thing was it was like our boys stopped being the intelligent group of lads I have come to respect, they insisted on driving forward with a system that clearly wasn't working.

We need to be able to alter the shape of this team meaningfully and I really hope thats what the team will practice these coming days instead of more intensive tippy tappy passing and wing play.

To be fair I only saw the highlights and did not catch the game live so if you did you have a much better gauge of how we played.

I think the alarming thing with yesterday was for most of the season we have worked out a way to break teams down early on in games, but one thing that worries me a bit is if we don't go ahead early on we do seem to run out of ideas.

We have had a great season so far and just need to maintain our standard of performance, if we do then it could end up being an amazing season.

[Marc Overmars]

As you were then.

A wake up call for sure but on we go.

[Letters]

It’s ON!

[Xhaka Can’t]

No ground lost - just a missed opportunity.

Even a point would’ve done.

Let’s hope we learn from this free lesson.

[Letters]

If the games were reversed then people would be saying (with some justification) that we’d bottled a chance to close the lead. We dodged a bullet this weekend, have to win the next one.

[selassie]

We need to get back into winning ways next Saturday, COYG!!!

[Chippy]

As you were then.

A wake up call for sure but on we go.

I actually wanted the Spuds game to be a draw. I can't stand them winning even if it helps us.

[Mac76]

I actually wanted the Spuds game to be a draw. I can't stand them winning even if it helps us.

Me too but hey we're an extra point clear so I'll skip through the spuds game on MOTD as usual and it's on we go

[Chippy]

Me too but hey we're an extra point clear so I'll skip through the spuds game on MOTD as usual and it's on we go

Indeed! :d

[Letters]

Me too but hey we're an extra point clear so I'll skip through the spuds game on MOTD as usual and it's on we go

I make a point of watching their highlights if they lose :d

[IBK]

Trying to be measured thaving allowed myself time to digest. The most disappointing thing for me was that we weren't at the races from the off. It was obvious how they would play, and we should have been prepared for their new manager bounce. Everton have decent players and it happens so often that a team that looks absolutely dead and buried will find their form with a change of manager and approach - their players would have been desperate to show their home fans that thay are much better than they looked under Lampard and the power of some simple, easily executable tactics to transform a team should not be underestimated. Everton's weakness was still there for everyone to see - and that's not being able to finish. If they could do that they would have won 3-0.


Instead our whole team had a shit day. I wouldn't bother with ratings, because the collective was awful. I watched with a season ticket holding friend and he was relentlessly upbeat that we would score and change the dynamic of the game, but for me after 20 minutes you could see clearly that the players just weren't playing with the controlled focus and dynamism that our style of football requires to be effective. Everton weren't even playing long ball football, and the play was so broken at times that I almost couldn't believe that we couldn't exploit this. Our MF seemed almost non-existent. Our subs were ineffective, and generally our lack of game changers (the subs were generally like for like and I wonder whether that is a problem in having back up players supposed to fit straight into an existing system) in this situation worries me a bit.


No choice but to put this down to 'one of those games', so I'm not going to dwell further on it, but we need a massive response from the team at home this weekend.

[Mac76]

I make a point of watching their highlights if they lose :d

Well yes obvs (lol)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Haven’t watched Match of the day in years, in regards to other teams tend to watch the two minute highlight packages posted on you tube by Skysports.

So it turns out I’m still incredibly fucked off about Saturdays game, and the city defeat has done nothing to quell that…arguably it’s made it even worse

I think now has come the time to examine issues of squad rotation. Both full backs were horrible, if we had depth in midfield to drop Xhaka that’s exactly what we should do (I’d be open to playing Tierney at left back and Zinchenko in midfield)

And as good as Odegaard has been lately, he stunk out the place so badly on Saturday that there should be some consequence for that.

Arteta can keep his “I love the players even more” you love Martinelli so much you made him completely isolated you stupid cunt.

No wonder they think they can put in performances like that with that attitude.

[Ollie the Optimist]

So far this season, we’ve had two defeats & two draws and 16 wins. A huge improvement on where we have been but as Letter says, we aren’t going to be perfect every game.

I’d say we have only had two really bad performances this season. One was the win against Leeds (we really were awful and won more by luck than anything else) and second was Everton.

Somehow we got away with yesterday with city failing to close the gap but hopefully this is just a blip. If we get 7 points out of the next 3 games, we will be in a very good position.

[selassie]

Me too but hey we're an extra point clear so I'll skip through the spuds game on MOTD as usual and it's on we go

:lol:

[Marc Overmars]

So far this season, we’ve had two defeats & two draws and 16 wins. A huge improvement on where we have been but as Letter says, we aren’t going to be perfect every game.

I’d say we have only had two really bad performances this season. One was the win against Leeds (we really were awful and won more by luck than anything else) and second was Everton.

Somehow we got away with yesterday with city failing to close the gap but hopefully this is just a blip. If we get 7 points out of the next 3 games, we will be in a very good position.

Brentford is an essential 3 points. If we don’t win that we’re firmly on the ropes.

Then it’s City, more of a must not lose rather than must win but it could be a defining night. Big couple of weeks ahead. :popcorn:

[IBK]

Haven’t watched Match of the day in years, in regards to other teams tend to watch the two minute highlight packages posted on you tube by Skysports.

So it turns out I’m still incredibly fucked off about Saturdays game, and the city defeat has done nothing to quell that…arguably it’s made it even worse

I think now has come the time to examine issues of squad rotation. Both full backs were horrible, if we had depth in midfield to drop Xhaka that’s exactly what we should do (I’d be open to playing Tierney at left back and Zinchenko in midfield)

And as good as Odegaard has been lately, he stunk out the place so badly on Saturday that there should be some consequence for that.

Arteta can keep his “I love the players even more” you love Martinelli so much you made him completely isolated you stupid cunt.

No wonder they think they can put in performances like that with that attitude.

I agree with the highlighted text. The reason I feel upset about Saturday is not even so much the defeat (these things do happen even to the best teams) - it was the performance, which raises questions about our consistency and ability to stay the course this season. Everton were motivated and well organised, but for a team with title winning aspirations they should have been beatable, and increasing the gap on Citeh would have been invaluable.

Not sure I'm quite with you re Matrinelli, though. He has been sub-par for a while, and I don't think this is the manager's fault. I am beginning to worry that Jesus needs to play for Martinelli to shine - which is a worry for a player who has just been re-signed as a 'go to' player for us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t think he’s played that well either but if you look at the way we played Saturday where all the attacking play went to Saka and neither Zinchenko or Xhaka tried to find him that was concerning. Now you’ve got to make yourself available and yes I think Trossard clearly made himself more available when he came on, but early on in the game Martinelli’s pace was a problem for Seamus Coleman and Connor Coady

[Marc Overmars]

I would definitely consider starting Trossard in place of Martinelli against Brentford. Love the kid but he’s been very quiet since the World Cup IMO.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I agree with the highlighted text. The reason I feel upset about Saturday is not even so much the defeat (these things do happen even to the best teams) - it was the performance, which raises questions about our consistency and ability to stay the course this season. Everton were motivated and well organised, but for a team with title winning aspirations they should have been beatable, and increasing the gap on Citeh would have been invaluable.

Not sure I'm quite with you re Matrinelli, though. He has been sub-par for a while, and I don't think this is the manager's fault. I am beginning to worry that Jesus needs to play for Martinelli to shine - which is a worry for a player who has just been re-signed as a 'go to' player for us.

But that is only the second time this season we have played badly out of 20 games. I wouldn’t say that raises questions about our consistency especially as it was first time we played badly and lost.

[Mac76]

I don’t think he’s played that well either but if you look at the way we played Saturday where all the attacking play went to Saka and neither Zinchenko or Xhaka tried to find him that was concerning. Now you’ve got to make yourself available and yes I think Trossard clearly made himself more available when he came on, but early on in the game Martinelli’s pace was a problem for Seamus Coleman and Connor Coady

This, especially the bit I've highlighted - I'm always looking to see where Xhaka and Zin place the ball and even though Martinelli's often got a little bit of room out wide and is asking for the ball, 9/10 times they pass infield or straight ahead, into areas where the opposition have greater numbers

Which is a problem in itself, but doubly so given Arteta's historical blindness to Xhaka's failings and now apparently also Zinchenko's

I don't with disagree having Zinchenko as an option for some games and which helps change our system in games, but Arteta has gone full hog with him and basically jettisoned the concept of a traditional left-back, robbing us of another option - I know bringing Tierney on hasn't always worked in terms of creating a goal but it should still be tried, on Saturday we still just kept running the same way against brick walls for 90 mins

Also we should, as Martinelli tried to do, swap the wing players sometimes

We're just lucky Pep's own frailties are being exposed at the moment, last season's Citeh would be top of the league by now
Newcastle and now Everton have now worked us out we need to show against Brentford we can do things differently

[HCZ_Reborn]

But that is only the second time this season we have played badly out of 20 games. I wouldn’t say that raises questions about our consistency especially as it was first time we played badly and lost.

No it was the second time. If you control the game and concede three goals that doesn’t mean you’ve played well. The Man United game was tactically shambolic, it wasn’t a case of being unlucky.


For me performance is often less important than result but let’s take performance for a second.

Palace (a) - absolutely dreadful, couldn’t keep hold of the ball after first 25 minutes and had to put in a deep block

Fulham (h) - The passing and movement just wasn’t there, and Fulham were able to defend deep and put us off our stride


United (a) - Already mentioned


Leeds (a) - We all know what a shit show that was but we were in poor form then anyway


Southampton (a) - After the first half just gave up control of the game and after they equalised never looked like threatening


Chelsea (a) - Chelsea were awful, we weren’t much better…really wasteful and struggled to break them down and we were fortunate that they created nothing.


Wolves (a) - Absolutely abysmal first half, created nothing and Wolves looked a threat


Newcastle (h) - Played into their hands, they came for a point and it was ridiculously easy for them to get one


United (h) - I was proud of us in this game, because the performance wasn’t great at all…no control in midfield…defending was suspect…but just showed the kind of fight and determination we completely lacked against Everton

[Letters]

So it turns out I’m still incredibly fucked off about Saturdays game, and the city defeat has done nothing to quell that…arguably it’s made it even worse.
The different mentalities on here are interesting, and I'm not saying yours is wrong or mine is right.
Your view is we should be 8 points clear with a game in hand, and that losing away at Everton is not the stuff of champions.
Mine is we could have had our lead cut to 2 points and losing after your rivals have slipped up is not the stuff of champions.

We definitely dodged a bullet this weekend. I rarely declare games a "must win" at this stage but after Saturday we absolutely have to beat Brentford. That would make the City game more of a "must not lose", but a win would be another "statement".

[HCZ_Reborn]

The different mentalities on here are interesting, and I'm not saying yours is wrong or mine is right.
Your view is we should be 8 points clear with a game in hand, and that losing away at Everton is not the stuff of champions.
Mine is we could have had our lead cut to 2 points and losing after your rivals have slipped up is not the stuff of champions.

We definitely dodged a bullet this weekend. I rarely declare games a "must win" at this stage but after Saturday we absolutely have to beat Brentford. That would make the City game more of a "must not lose", but a win would be another "statement".

See that’s not even it

I’m not even thinking about the defeat in terms of the title. I didn’t think it was likely we would win the title even before the game against Everton. What annoys me is how easy it is for certain teams to beat us. Like it wasn’t a tactical masterclass by Dyche, he just put five in midfield to stodge it up and played a deep block when we attacked.



Looking at the bigger picture, If we can beat City at the Emirates then I might think the title is doable. But you can understand why I don’t have much faith in that happening after five defeats on the bounce at home against them. And I wonder how psychological that is, I don’t think there’s any doubt we were the better side against them on New Years Day 2022 but it counted for nothing.

With the exception of Brentford the teams city have lost to this season are the teams they usually struggle with (United, Spurs and Liverpool)

[Marc Overmars]

Man City have been charged by the PL with several breaches of financial rules.

I think we can all agree that the appropriate course of action here is a points deduction.

[Letters]

Man City have been charged by the PL with several breaches of financial rules.

I think we can all agree that the appropriate course of action here is a points deduction.
I literally just came here to post this :lol:

:patrice:

[GP]

They should be immediately liquidated.

[dazthegooner]

Nothing will come of it, never does.

[Letters]

Nothing will come of it, never does.

Correct.

And tbh as much as I want us to win the title, if we do it after City have been docked points then there will always be an asterisk by it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Even if there is a points deduction it will most likely take effect next season

[WMUG]

Correct.

And tbh as much as I want us to win the title, if we do it after City have been docked points then there will always be an asterisk by it.

:whogives:

There's already an asterisk next to all their titles.

Edit: wait, what happened to that smiley?

[Ollie the Optimist]

There are over 100 charges against Man City over 10 years.

We know it’ll probably be a slap on the wrist but then again, with that many charges over a 10 period after a 4 year investigation, it’ll be hard for the league to justify not going in heavy

[IBK]

But that is only the second time this season we have played badly out of 20 games. I wouldn’t say that raises questions about our consistency especially as it was first time we played badly and lost.

We have just lost 2 games on the bounce - and with it a measure of momentum. I think that for our young team momentum is absolutely key. It is what gives the players the belief that the manager's methods will produce wins, even when game states are against us. We desperately need this is we are to sustain our title challenge through the more difficult half of the season - where tired legs and pressure represent massive obstacles.

When I talk about consistency - I mean consistency of performances - not necessarily results. While I would not go as far as HCZ in his critique of some of our other performances this season, what I wanted to see on Saturday was the focus and dynsmism that we have mostly showed this season. I am not expecting us to be 'on it' for 90 minutes every game, but what worried me against Everton was that this was almost completely lacking from pretty much every player on the pitch. Where you have such a marked and collective failure, this does for me raise question marks over whether we can produce the consistency of performances necessary to win the league when we are up against it as we were. Whether our failure was mental; tired legs (some of our worst performenrs had had a decent break, but we have relied on pretty much the same team all season); or an opposition manager working out how to play us - it worries me that we resorted effectively to hoping for a moment of magic from 'go to' players rather than our system being impossible to resist. This is why I refer to consistency.

Like I have said, I am not throwing in the towel just yet - and a dominating performance against a very good Brentford team will hopefully get us back on track, but for me Saturday was the most concerned I have been about our team this season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://twitter.com/troonytoons/status/1622372107169693696?s=46&t=YmSh53xqSXRZEo-VKBMLVw


Turns out the cure was for me to find something that upset me more than the result/performance Saturday


I actually feel like I’ve been abused :crying:…so this is what it’s like to be triggered

[Ollie the Optimist]

The times are saying City can’t take any appeal against premier league punishment (if there is one ) to CAS like they did with the UEFA one.

It’s part of the premier league rules.

That’s quite big as means league may actually take action and city’s lawyers wont be able to appeal

[Letters]

:whogives:

There's already an asterisk next to all their titles.
Come on, dude. You know what two wrongs famously don't make.
Not that it would have been us doing anything wrong if they get deducted points, but that's not the way I want us to win a title.
But I hope they take them to the cleaners and deduct a million points next year.


Edit: wait, what happened to that smiley?
Dunno :shrug:
Haven't touched the smileys in years.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah I’m in the who gives a shit camp as well, if points were deducted this season.

If the allegations are proven and it merits a point deduction. I’m not going to lose any sleep about it

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah if they’ve fucked up they should face the appropriate punishment. If it makes us winning the league more likely then so be it. I’ll take that asterisk all day long, it’s not our problem.

Let’s face it, they’ll only be getting a fine and a slap on a wrist anyway.

[dazthegooner]

All this talk of us winning the league with an * next to it due to a Man City points reduction we could always win it without the deduction (yeah i know a long shot but it might just work) :unsure:

[Letters]

All this talk of us winning the league with an * next to it due to a Man City points reduction we could always win it without the deduction (yeah i know a long shot but it might just work) :unsure:

91 was good, when we got the deduction and cruised to the title regardless.
"You can stick your fucking 2 points up your arse" ringing around Highbury :d

[Letters]

Let’s face it, they’ll only be getting a fine and a slap on a wrist anyway.
This does seem like the most likely outcome tbh.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This does seem like the most likely outcome tbh.

I think it’s too early to say definitively

The fact is the investigation took years to conduct, so what’s most likely is whatever measure they face it’s unlikely to fall down on them this season especially with an appeal lodged etc.

[WMUG]

Come on, dude. You know what two wrongs famously don't make.
Not that it would have been us doing anything wrong if they get deducted points, but that's not the way I want us to win a title.
But I hope they take them to the cleaners and deduct a million points next year.


Yeah I get what you mean, but I feel like the asterisk ship has sailed at this point :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Not sure what the fuss is about, everyone knows they deserve a points penalty at the least.

I just hope it comes next season though, we've done this the hard way so far and this team ought to be remembered for wining it that way.

[KSE Comedy Club]

A truly humbling day..... but always best to get these days come early so we learn from them.

Its now 180 mins in 2 games where we have not scored.

In both games our wide men were marked out of the game and we seemed to have no plan B.

The sad thing is that before these two games happened, Newcastle had showed the blueprint on how to play us so we should have been forewarned.

We need to make our possession in the middle count and be able to pose goal threats from playing straight through the middle

So many times in this game you could see Xhaka, Zinchenko and Odegaard be in loads of space in the middle and still pass the ball out wide to heavily marked men. It makes no f**king sense if they expect Saka, Martinelli and Eddie to bail us out with goals every single time....you win games by scoring goals and not the amount of passes you make.

One more important thing: Arteta seems to be the only "top" manager I know who consistently makes the game worse with his subs i.e. his substitutions come to late or never improve the game.

He needs to work on his shit, because you can't always pick the right team on the get go and your team must be able to adapt when it clear the opposition has figured you out.

We met a team today that wanted it more than us and deserved to win....a top manager would have been adequately prepared for the "new coach bounce".

A sad day but we have to get over it fast!!!


Lastly, Eddie needs to learn how to get more involved in games. People criticised Jesus for not always being in the box but the last 2 games should show that coming out and forcing defenders out of position has it's upsides.

Oh and why don't our wingers exchange positions temporarily during the game like we use to do under AW and Emery...it can be effective in confusing defenders in games like this. I think Martinelli tried to force it but Saka was having none of it. Arteta should really consider it as I am sure he is the cause of this not happening.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

The bit in bold being key.

That game was dreadful to watch, every attack was the same, out wide, out wide, out wide.

Great when it works, as it has been against most teams, but when it doesn't, you have to switch it up and be more direct. Take chances, shots at goal, distance shots, etc, to force the oppositions hand.

We didn't do that at all.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

With the Man City stuff, wonder if we'll be awarded the 2018 League Cup. :bow:

Probably not given that has all come from the Premier League.

But still distracts me from the idea Liverpool and Man Utd get awarded league titles instead.

[Letters]

Awarding titles retrospectively is meaningless.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Awarding titles retrospectively is meaningless.

I agree with that

Fine strip a club of the title, but just have it so that trophy goes unawarded. The assumption that because the team in 1st place cheated that the team in second place deserves the trophy is for the birds

[Mac76]

I agree with that

Fine strip a club of the title, but just have it so that trophy goes unawarded. The assumption that because the team in 1st place cheated that the team in second place deserves the trophy is for the birds

Agreed - unless they find Leceister cheated finamcially when they won the title :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

The home game against this lot is being played on 1st March. No excuses