Arsenal v Man City. 15th Feb. 19:30

[Marc Overmars]

Since the cup semi final win in 2017, we’ve lost 13 out of 14 games to City in all competitions. They’ve beaten us home and away every season since 17/18.

Our last point from them was a 2-2 draw in April 2017 and the last time we took 3 points was a 2-1 win in December 2015.

Should be a straight forward 3 points here then…

[Letters]

I hope we win tbh

[Mac76]

0-3 Cyborg hatter

[Mac76]

I'll tell you one thing it will ultra dumb to start Zinchenko in this match, firstly because his form is really poor and secondly, the way the Citeh players wound him up after the FAC game means they'll be baiting him all game and he'll most likely be sent off.

It should be something like this but we all know it won't be:

Ram
Tomi
Saliba
Gabriel
Tierney
Partey
Odegaard
Vieira
Saka
Martinelli (playing centrally)
Trossard

[Marc Overmars]

I think Zinchenko is suited to these type of games, his better performances have come against teams who play football. It’s when we’re trying to break through a deep backline his midfield party trick becomes kinda pointless.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I'll tell you one thing it will ultra dumb to start Zinchenko in this match, firstly because his form is really poor and secondly, the way the Citeh players wound him up after the FAC game means they'll be baiting him all game and he'll most likely be sent off.

It should be something like this but we all know it won't be:

Ram
Tomi
Saliba
Gabriel
Tierney
Partey
Odegaard
Vieira
Saka
Martinelli (playing centrally)
Trossard
Interesting, no space for Eddie, why?

[Letters]

COME ON, ARSENAL!!

[Marc Overmars]

Reckon it’ll be one of those games we see a lot of the ball and probably have the better chances, but a blunt frontline will cost us and we’ll get picked off at the other end.

0-2 City win.

[Letters]

Reckon it’ll be one of those games we see a lot of the ball and probably have the better chances, but a blunt frontline will cost us and we’ll get picked off at the other end.

0-2 City win.

Plausible. If we lost tonight then the title is gone. :(

[IBK]

I can't help feeling that this will be a narrow win for city with a brave performance from us that ultimately means nothing. I hope I am wrong...

[selassie]

Plausible. If we lost tonight then the title is gone. :(

I don't think we are winning the title regardless of tonight's outcome. I'm not being negative, just realistic. Even if we finish 2nd, that is still a very successful season for us.

[selassie]

I can't help feeling that this will be a narrow win for city with a brave performance from us that ultimately means nothing. I hope I am wrong...

I have a feeling this will happen too. Or a draw at best. The last few weeks have been a bit too rough for us and I think doubts are starting to creep into the players. I hope i am wrong!

[Letters]

I don't think we are winning the title regardless of tonight's outcome. I'm not being negative, just realistic. Even if we finish 2nd, that is still a very successful season for us.

A win certainly isn't a guarantee of the title, but it would give us a chance. If we lose then it's gone. Even a draw isn't really good enough.
2nd would definitely be an overachievement, but after the Spurs and Utd results I'd started to believe.
And as I've said elsewhere, I don't think we will get another chance of a title any time soon.

[Marc Overmars]

Partey is out and also expected to miss the trip the Villa this weekend.

This season was fun while it lasted. :rose:

[Mac76]

I don't think we are winning the title regardless of tonight's outcome. I'm not being negative, just realistic. Even if we finish 2nd, that is still a very successful season for us.

Given Man Ure's form I still think we could well be third, but with the proviso that if we really do collapse then it could be tighter than people think to even make fourth - when Arteta's Arsenal fall flat they fall flat big

[HCZ_Reborn]

Partey is out and also expected to miss the trip the Villa this weekend.

This season was fun while it lasted. :rose:

I was a bit nervous about tonight. I’m not now

I can do something else confident in the knowledge that we are going to lose to them for the 11th time in a row

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Jorginho to roll it back like in the Champions League final. :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I don't think we are winning the title regardless of tonight's outcome. I'm not being negative, just realistic. Even if we finish 2nd, that is still a very successful season for us.

I think in that scenario of winning tonight that actually isn't being realistic.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Arsenal: Ramsdale, Tomiyasu, Saliba, Gabriel, Zinchenko, Jorginho, Xhaka, Odegaard, Saka, Martinelli, Nketiah.
Subs: Turner, Tierney, Kiwior, Holding, White, Trossard, Vieira, Cozier-Duberry, Nelson.

Man City: Ederson, Walker, Dias, Rodri, Ake, Gundogan, De Bruyne, Silva, Mahrez, Haaland, Grealish
Subs: Ortega, Phillips, Laporte, Alvarez, Gomez, Akanji, Foden, Palmer, Lewis.

[Marc Overmars]

Good to see Tomi start tbf

[Mac76]

Good to see Tomi start tbf

Could be better versus Grealish than White

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Arsenal: Ramsdale, Tomiyasu, Saliba, Gabriel, Zinchenko, Jorginho, Xhaka, Odegaard, Saka, Martinelli, Nketiah.
Subs: Turner, Tierney, Kiwior, Holding, White, Trossard, Vieira, Cozier-Duberry, Nelson.

Man City: Ederson, Walker, Dias, Rodri, Ake, Gundogan, De Bruyne, Silva, Mahrez, Haaland, Grealish
Subs: Ortega, Phillips, Laporte, Alvarez, Gomez, Akanji, Foden, Palmer, Lewis.

Partey injured.... I'm truly speechless.

[Mac76]

Good to see Nelson on the bench

[selassie]

I think in that scenario of winning tonight that actually isn't being realistic.

Let's hope I am proved wrong ;)

[selassie]

Given Man Ure's form I still think we could well be third, but with the proviso that if we really do collapse then it could be tighter than people think to even make fourth - when Arteta's Arsenal fall flat they fall flat big

I have my heart set on a top 2 finish now, anything else would be disappointing if you factor in our form up until now. We are better team than United too.

[selassie]

I hope Jorginho is on it tonight.

[Marc Overmars]

I hope Jorginho is on it tonight.

They’ll be playing one-twos around him and leaving him for dust.

[Marc Overmars]

Xhaka volleys one miles over.

Fast start.

[Marc Overmars]

Gabriel falling over while tracking Haaland. That doesn’t bode well.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How is that Nketiah's fault Ake went for a diving header?

[Marc Overmars]

Eddie heads just wide!

He’ll be disappointed he didn’t hit the target there.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What a miss.

[Letters]

Ah fuck

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Awful from Tomiyasu.

[Marc Overmars]

0-1 KDB

Awful from Tomi

Good start spoiled by an error. Textbook.

[Letters]

Title race :rose:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Keep it down you berk.

[Letters]

Tomi :doh:

[Marc Overmars]

Tomi volleys over. Should do better.

[Marc Overmars]

Hit it Saka FFS

[Letters]

Hit it, Saka! :doh:

[Marc Overmars]

There’s agent Zinchenko

[Letters]

I can't help feeling that this will be a narrow win for city with a brave performance from us that ultimately means nothing. I hope I am wrong...

Pretty much spot on so far.

[Marc Overmars]

Pretty much spot on so far.

It is textbook man. Right down to the silly error.

Need a bit of luck to turn this around.

[Letters]

1 point out of 9 at this stage of the season :lol:

Fun this shizzle

[Letters]

The crowd are doing their bit.

[Letters]

Referee actually dealing with time wasting :o

[Marc Overmars]

The problem is we look panicky every time they press.

[Letters]

Pel?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Come on!

[Marc Overmars]

PENALTY!

[Marc Overmars]

Come on Saka :pray:

[Marc Overmars]

SAKAAAAA

[Letters]

1-1 COME ON!!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

SAKA!!!

[Globalgunner]

Not to sure thats a fair Pen. Not much wrong with what Edison did there, but Ill take it. COYG!!!

[GP]

Not to sure thats a fair Pen. Not much wrong with what Edison did there, but Ill take it. COYG!!!

lol what? He just wiped out Nketiah

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Great response from them.

[Letters]

Not to sure thats a fair Pen. Not much wrong with what Edison did there, but Ill take it. COYG!!!

I thought it was a bit harsh tbh, but maybe that’s because you see ‘keepers get away with that sort of thing all the time. Silly one, we weren’t going to score then.

[Mac76]

Am at the game but we couldn't see what the pel was for?

[Letters]

6 minutes added :lol:

[Letters]

Am at the game but we couldn't see what the pel was for?

‘Keeper took Nketieh out. But in a way that they usually get away with so I’m a bit surprised it was given

[Letters]

Silva booked.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Finally booked.

[Marc Overmars]

This must be the loudest the Emirates has ever been.

Hope those fans get the result they deserve.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

How didn't that go in? :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Off the bar :sick:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-1 HT.

We've been much the better side I think.

[Letters]

1-1 HT. That’ll do.
Have to say City press so well.

[GP]

We've been really good. Jorginho has done really well, we've caused them problems down both wings. Lets fucking go!

[Letters]

1-1 HT.

We've been much the better side I think.

You think? Dunno. There’s not been that much in it.
Maybe edged it.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

You think? Dunno. There’s not been that much in it.
Maybe edged it.

They've relied on hitting it long for what they've got. Completely unheard of from a Guardiola team.

[Mac76]

I'll take that, if we don't score soon then just keep it like that til 70 mins and then bring on Trossard to try to get the win...

[selassie]

We have played pretty well so far. They look dangerous going forward but so do we. Jorginho and Xhaka have been very good in Midfield too, pleasantly surprised.

[Marc Overmars]

Fair play for not letting the heads drop after the Tomi mistake. We responded really well.

I think there’s a bit of fear there when they pour forward, you just know they’ve got enough quality to create something at any given time.

But overall a great effort so far. Just want to see more composure in the final third. Long way to go.

[GP]

The fact City were timewasting on 35mins tells you all you need to know.

[Mac76]

‘Keeper took Nketieh out. But in a way that they usually get away with so I’m a bit surprised it was given

Cheers, wasn't sure if it was that or a handball somewherr

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We have played pretty well so far. They look dangerous going forward but so do we. Jorginho and Xhaka have been very good in Midfield too, pleasantly surprised.

Agree with most of this...though I believe City have been poorer than usual.

The boys should be proud of themselves so far, especially Jorginho, who this kind of game suits.

We should have never started Tomi, but that's an argument for another time.

The way things have gone with their goal and ours makes me believe we can actually win this game due to what that goal does for the psyche of our boys.

Saka will be our next Henry if he stays, maybe even bigger... there, I've said it, the boy is Mr Dependable on the big stage

[Ollie the Optimist]

If the referee actually applied the rules properly, city would be down to 9.

How on earth Bernardo is still on the pitch after committing 3 fouls that were yellow cards is beyond me

[selassie]

Agree with most of this...though I believe City have been poorer than usual.

The boys sgould be proud of themselves so far, especially Jorginho, who this kind of game suits.

We should have never started Tomi, but that's an argument for another time.

The way things have gone with their goal and ours makes me believe we can actually win this game due to what that goal does for the psyche of kur boys.

Saka will be our next Henry if he stays, maybe even bigger... there, I've said it, the boy is Mr Dependable on the big stage

Aye, I agree with this. Saka is most definitely a BIG Game player, for both us and England, elite.

[Marc Overmars]

Amazon’s coverage is way better than Sky and BT.

Hope they get a bigger share of games moving forward.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Not to sure thats a fair Pen. Not much wrong with what Edison did there, but Ill take it. COYG!!!
If it had been anyone but a keeper who did that, would you still say the same thing?

It was a penalty as it was a clear foul as he had no intention of using his hands.

[GP]

If the referee actually applied the rules properly, city would be down to 9.

How on earth Bernardo is still on the pitch after committing 3 fouls that were yellow cards is beyond me

I'd have given Ederson a 2nd yellow as well, for the luls

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ederson should get a straight red for the tattoos tbf.

[GP]

Ederson should get a straight red for the tattoos tbf.

He looks like a member of a 2000s nu metal band.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yellow for Tomiyasu. Time to bring on White.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He looks like a member of a 2000s nu metal band.

Was definitely the lead singer for Papa Roach.

[Marc Overmars]

Arteta trolling De Bruyne

[GP]

Saka is elite

[Marc Overmars]

City penalty

[Marc Overmars]

VAR should rule that out for offside?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Offside surely?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It says checking goal. :lol:

Presumptious.

[GP]

Thank you.

[Marc Overmars]

Offside!

Phew. Not great from Gabriel though.

[Letters]

Holy shit we dodged a bullet then :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Send him off!

Haaland is just a yard dog really.

[GP]

Haaland is an oaf.

Send him off.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Gabriel is an idiot.

Thank you VAR

[Letters]

Offside!

Phew. Not great from Gabriel though.
We keep taking on Haaland for strength, we are never going to win those battles against him.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mahrez off, Akanji on.

[Marc Overmars]

We’re losing the ball too much in midfield. It’s going to bite us sooner or later.

[Ollie the Optimist]

That should be a red for Haaland

[GP]

That should be a red for Haaland

Intentional elbow. 100%

[Marc Overmars]

Eddie booked.

Was worried for a second there that could have been a red.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yellow for Nketiah.

[Marc Overmars]

Inches away for Eddie there!

[Letters]

Oh Nketieh. Not quite happening for him tonight

[GP]

Grealish is such a diver.

[Marc Overmars]

Getting a bit stretched now and I don’t fancy our chances if it comes down to that.

[Letters]

Another free kick given away in a silly area

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Oh jesus wept.

[Letters]

:sick: pinball

[Marc Overmars]

Jorginho clears off the line :sick:

[Letters]

Holy shit!

[Marc Overmars]

Pure agent Zinchenko there

WTF?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Our heads have gone a bit.

[Marc Overmars]

Would happily take a point now.

No composure.

[Letters]

Oh Xhaka :doh:

[Marc Overmars]

1-2 Grealish

It was coming

[Letters]

2-1 City. Grealish.
It’s been coming

Title :rose:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fuck.

[Letters]

Ramsdale would have got that had Tomi not got a boot on it.
Not his fault this time though

[Marc Overmars]

Admire the effort but I’m sorry we’ve been atrocious at the back. Never going to win a title shitting yourself on nights like this.

[Letters]

Fuck.

:gp:

[Letters]

Admire the effort but I’m sorry we’ve been atrocious at the back. Never going to win a title shitting yourself on nights like this.

Correct.
The lack of composure has been poor.

[Letters]

FUCKING HIT IT, XHAKA!!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Xhaka is having a mare in this half.

[Letters]

Trossard come on for Martinelli

[Marc Overmars]

No idea why Xhaka didn’t have a pop.

Over complicating it for no reason.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli off, Trossard on.

[Marc Overmars]

1-3 Haaland

Game, set and match

[Letters]

Haaland

3-1

:rolleyes:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-3 shit.

[Letters]

1-3 Haaland

Game set and match

And title.

Ah well.

Top 4 Trophy :bow:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Just to pre-empt anyone about to say about how we’ve done better this season than expected

Bollocks to you, 11 defeats in a row against City…we should be fucking ashamed of ourselves.

There are teams who are constantly battling against relegation who do better than that.

[Marc Overmars]

Terrible at the back but the really disappointing thing has been the fact we’ve looked completely blunt again.

[Letters]

Just to pre-empt anyone about to say about how we’ve done better this season than expected

Bollocks to you, 11 defeats in a row against City…we should be fucking ashamed of ourselves.
Those two things can both be true.

[Marc Overmars]

Good chance for Eddie but he heads wide

[Letters]

Another one skids off Eddie’s head :rolleyes:

[Letters]

The crowd have been brilliant tonight

[Marc Overmars]

Martinelli was anonymous again btw, it’s definitely time for Trossard to be starting games

[selassie]

We've been dominated second half, poor at the back too. We need to get back to our early season performances before it becomes some kind of collapse.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-3 FT. Shit.

[Mac76]

Back to reality

[Letters]

We've been dominated second half, poor at the back too. We need to get back to our early season performances before it becomes some kind of collapse.
It’s already that in terms of the title.
But yeah, we have to get going again.
Really feel quite deflated. I thought I saw something in this team which I hadn’t seen for a long time but it’s all slipping away.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Just to pre-empt anyone about to say about how we’ve done better this season than expected

Bollocks to you, 11 defeats in a row against City…we should be fucking ashamed of ourselves.

There are teams who are constantly battling against relegation who do better than that.

:haha:

[Mac76]

Just saw Pep congratulating Agent Zinchenko

[HCZ_Reborn]

Those two things can both be true.

What I’m saying is I’m not interested in hearing how well our season has gone

[Letters]

What I’m saying is I’m not interested in hearing how well our season has gone

Well. Until the last couple of weeks it objectively had.
But the bottom line is where you finish. It’s disappointing just how quickly our title challenge has collapsed. We have to get going again before the collapse becomes completely embarrassing

[selassie]

What I’m saying is I’m not interested in hearing how well our season has gone

We are where we are. Nobody expected this before the season, yeah we've been wobbling for a few weeks now and need to get out of his slump to restart our season but I don't really see what else we can expect. This is a very good team but with flaws.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The crowd have been brilliant tonight

Yup, shame they only had one half of a performance from the team.

[selassie]

Well. Until the last couple of weeks it objectively had.
But the bottom line is where you finish. It’s disappointing just how quickly our title challenge has collapsed. We have to get going again before the collapse becomes completely embarrassing

If we lose at Villa on Saturday then the Collapse will be in full swing, after that it will be about damage limitation to prevent our season going into freefall.

[Mac76]

Arteta has to make big changes now, starting with playing a proper left back instead of litat little tosser

[Marc Overmars]

That’s why they’re champions and we’re just dreamers. They weren’t phased by the job, they turned up and played us off the park, especially in the second half. Only one team looked a threat this evening and it certainly wasn’t us.

I was prouder of the performance on New Year’s Day last year. Tonight we didn’t even lay a glove on them.

The defence shat themselves every time they were asked to intervene and the midfield and front line couldn’t create a damn thing.

Are we really going to take 6 points at Villa and Leicester to keep us in the hunt? I doubt it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We are where we are. Nobody expected this before the season, yeah we've been wobbling for a few weeks now and need to get out of his slump to restart our season but I don't really see what else we can expect. This is a very good team but with flaws.

I don't think this is a very good team and the flaws are a lot if you ask me....I mean the retrogression in the last few games is just amazing....and even if we could tie it all down to the absence of one or two players...it would then mean we have a team of 9- 10 players that none of our supposed rivals would take.

We are have an average bunch of players and there is still a lot of work to do to get to where we need to be.

[LDG]

We got schooled 2nd half. City pushed a high line and we couldn’t cope. Not saying we shoild be critical because you’re talking about the champions who have spent billions assembling what is a very good and very felxible squad.

The problem for us is if we can’t get a hold in the centre, we can’t get forward. City had the go long option, and their changes made the difference.

Gutted, but expected.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We are where we are. Nobody expected this before the season, yeah we've been wobbling for a few weeks now and need to get out of his slump to restart our season but I don't really see what else we can expect. This is a very good team but with flaws.

Yeah this is the kind of floppy cock I’m talking about

City have been poor lately, it’s only 10 days since they were beaten by Spurs yet we’ve made them look like the world beaters of last season…they aren’t.

What we’ve done this season has essentially been lit on fire by the results since 4th Feb, you know it, I know it.

Our results in the league against City are an embarrassment to us as a football club, you know it, I know it

So what’s the point of putting garnish around this shit sandwich

[LDG]

Another one skids off Eddie’s head :rolleyes:

Those are the margins. He had two right on his nut. One is an error, two means he ain’t ready for a title.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Those are the margins. He had two right on his nut. One is an error, two means he ain’t ready for a title.

Eddie is a good lad, he is a fantastic squad player

But that’s all he will ever be.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We got schooled 2nd half. City pushed a high line and we couldn’t cope. Not saying we shoild be critical because you’re talking about the champions who have spent billions assembling what is a very good and very felxible squad.

The problem for us is if we can’t get a hold in the centre, we can’t get forward. City had the go long option, and their changes made the difference.

Gutted, but expected.

Oh you mean they had the ability to mix up their game, something even Southampton can do?

Who would have thought that ability would come in handy, certainly not Arteta obviously

:gp: btw

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think this is a very good team and the flaws are a lot if you ask me....I mean the retrogression in the last few games is just amazing....and even if we could tie it all down to the absence of one or two players...it would then mean we have team of 9- 10 players that none of our supposed rivals would take.

We are average and there is still a lot of work to do to get to where we need to be.

We’ve gone off the boil for sure but I don’t think winning 16 out of 19 games was a fluke. We’re a good team now but ultimately still a team that hasn’t achieved anything and probably doesn’t quite know how to handle things when it’s not going their way.

There’s no remedy for this, just man up and deal with it if you want to dine at the top table. Title challengers don’t go 3 games without winning nor do they struggle to score goals.

Sort it out Arsenal.

[Letters]

There’s no remedy for this, just man up and deal with it if you want to dine at the top table. Title challengers don’t go 3 games without winning nor do they struggle to score goals.

Sort it out Arsenal.
Aye. You get a feeling about a title winning side, I’ve found.
After Spurs and Utd I was getting that feeling. Those are the sorts of results you get in a title run.
But that’s all gone now. You don’t get 1 point from 9 in a title run, especially not when one of those games you lose at home to the other challenger.
I thought people were conceding the title too early after the last 2, but it’s gone now.
We really have to win the next one before it turns into a proper collapse.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We’ve gone off the boil for sure but I don’t think winning 16 out of 19 games was a fluke. We’re a good team now but ultimately still a team that hasn’t achieved anything and probably doesn’t quite know how to handle things when it’s not going their way.

There’s no remedy for this, just man up and deal with it if you want to dine at the top table. Title challengers don’t go 3 games without winning nor do they struggle to score goals.

Sort it out Arsenal.

Didn't say it was a fluke, but we had a healthy dose of luck on the way and clearly the points we had amassed flattered this team.

This team consists of too many average players, which is the main point I am trying to get across anyway. I mean the only time we made the keeper work was a penalty and we had the better chances today .

BTW its clear that the coach has been pretty average too.

[LDG]

We’ve gone off the boil for sure but I don’t think winning 16 out of 19 games was a fluke. We’re a good team now but ultimately still a team that hasn’t achieved anything and probably doesn’t quite know how to handle things when it’s not going their way.

There’s no remedy for this, just man up and deal with it if you want to dine at the top table. Title challengers don’t go 3 games without winning nor do they struggle to score goals.

Sort it out Arsenal.

Yep. Agreed.

I feel a little sorry for em in the sense that it is a team I can really get behind, but you have to learn quickly in this league, and we had some pretty good warnings before their second which should have prompted a tactical shift.

The only way you win titles is to be consistent, and we haven’t been since the Xmas break. The Newcastle draw said everything about not havinv that little extra to tip the balance. Thats what title winners do. They don’t miss two unchallenged headers right on the spot and not test the keeper.

That was the difference tonight.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Aye. You get a feeling about a title winning side, I’ve found.
After Spurs and Utd I was getting that feeling. Those are the sorts of results you get in a title run.
But that’s all gone now. You don’t get 1 point from 9 in a title run, especially not when one of those games you lose at home to the other challenger.
I thought people were conceding the title too early after the last 2, but it’s gone now.
We really have to win the next one before it turns into a proper collapse.

I agree with most of this.

I did say I wouldn't concede till we have played City twice (initially I meant in the league), but that has occured now and both times City didn't really up their game...we just surrendered to them.

It's really been pathetic and though I won't give up, I'll be more silent about the title talk as clearly we don't have that aura of deserving champions.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Fuck it, I'll still think we can do it. :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

I agree with most of this.

I did say I wouldn't concede till we have played City twice (initially I meant in the league), but that has occured now and both times City didn't really up their game...we just surrendered to them.

It's really been pathetic and though I won't give up, I'll be more silent about the title talk as clearly we don't have that aura of deserving champions.

It’s still a possibility and that’s something I hope the team doesn’t forget. If we beat Villa and Leicester you would then say we’re off and running again.

You fear for them now though unfortunately.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Aye. You get a feeling about a title winning side, I’ve found.
After Spurs and Utd I was getting that feeling. Those are the sorts of results you get in a title run.
But that’s all gone now. You don’t get 1 point from 9 in a title run, especially not when one of those games you lose at home to the other challenger.
I thought people were conceding the title too early after the last 2, but it’s gone now.
We really have to win the next one before it turns into a proper collapse.

Massive Confirmation Bias but never had that feeling. I felt that we hadn’t been properly tested…(still haven’t come back from going a goal down away from home)….and just felt that Arteta’s idiosyncrasies and personality deficiencies would haunt us.

Losing becomes a habbit, and losing ten times in a row to City before tonight means we just don’t have that belief that we can beat them or even get a draw against them.

We had to have everything go perfectly, won the two previous games, have our strongest available XI and we had neither of these.

Also there’s an argument to be made the players just aren’t good enough. Some of them have the potential - Martinelli, Saka, Jesus, Odegaard. But there’s just things that aren’t right, Ben White has been shite for a while now, Saliba looks like he needs to be dropped, Zinchenko is stinking the place out.

And let’s be fair even Ramsdale has been poor.


Need wholesale changes for Villa

Drop Zinchenko, drop Xhaka, drop Saliba, drop Eddie


Put in the Polack defender, put in Tierney, put in Vieira behind Odegaard and have Trossard and Martinelli play interchangeable between left wing and centre forward.

[Niall_Quinn]

The club and many of the fans still don't understand what winning means. Winners win everything. They win at the highest level and they won't let a 3 yer old beat them in a game of marbles. I saw some of the losers on here dismissing the cup match against city. Let's lose that one and then win the league. It doesn't work like that.

The Top Four mentality still holds strong.

[Mac76]

Those are the margins. He had two right on his nut. One is an error, two means he ain’t ready for a title.

Correct, nor is Xhaka and tbh it's a miracle Zinchenko got near titles, given how bad he's been in the last three games, I guess he's one of those players who's made to look better by who's around them

[selassie]

I don't think this is a very good team and the flaws are a lot if you ask me....I mean the retrogression in the last few games is just amazing....and even if we could tie it all down to the absence of one or two players...it would then mean we have a team of 9- 10 players that none of our supposed rivals would take.

We are have an average bunch of players and there is still a lot of work to do to get to where we need to be.

So you think we are an average team based on what you have seen of us this season? Not the past few games, the entire season so far?

[selassie]

Yeah this is the kind of floppy cock I’m talking about

City have been poor lately, it’s only 10 days since they were beaten by Spurs yet we’ve made them look like the world beaters of last season…they aren’t.

What we’ve done this season has essentially been lit on fire by the results since 4th Feb, you know it, I know it.

Our results in the league against City are an embarrassment to us as a football club, you know it, I know it

So what’s the point of putting garnish around this shit sandwich

Who cares what Spurs did against them or whether they look great or not? I only care about Arsenal and how we perform in the league, it’s irrelevant if Team x, y or z make City look great or not.

I’m not really sure what you don’t seem to grasp about my post? I didn’t say I’m happy with the current situation, did not say I am happy with losing to City, I simply said that we are actually in a position nobody expected us to be in.

That’s unless you thought we would be in this position? Or that you expected us to be challenging for the title halfway through the season?

Aside from your posts having a touch of “I told you so”, you are not telling me anything, I didn’t expect this in the first place and never thought the squad is strong enough for a sustained title challenge, I could very well be wrong but I doubt it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Who cares what Spurs did against them or whether they look great or not? I only care about Arsenal and how we perform in the league, it’s irrelevant if Team x, y or z make City look great or not.

I’m not really sure what you don’t seem to grasp about my post? I didn’t say I’m happy with the current situation, did not say I am happy with losing to City, I simply said that we are actually in a position nobody expected us to be in.

That’s unless you thought we would be in this position? Or that you expected us to be challenging for the title halfway through the season?

Aside from your posts having a touch of “I told you so”, you are not telling me anything, I didn’t expect this in the first place and never thought the squad is strong enough for a sustained title challenge, I could very well be wrong but I doubt it.

Again the point is, this city side were beatable and we contrived to mess ourselves against them…again

[selassie]

Again the point is, this city side were beatable and we contrived to mess ourselves against them…again

You could have saved yourself a load of typing and just posted this in the first place. Thanks for stating the obvious.

[Letters]

The club and many of the fans still don't understand what winning means. Winners win everything.
The Invincibles didn’t. They crashed out of the 2 biggest cup competitions in a week.
No-one on here wanted to lose in the Cup, but given that we were (at the time) improbably in the title race and given that our squad clearly isn’t deep enough to compete on all fronts, the league was the clear priority.
The difference is The Invincibles picked themselves up and beat Liverpool (thanks to Henry’s heroics, I have to say I was sitting there at half time feeling that it was all about to fall apart). This lot have responded to the City loss by continuing to lose.
Bother. They’re a young squad and hopefully we will continue to invest in it and improve, but I can’t help feeling it was now or never for the title with what other clubs are doing.


The Top Four mentality still holds strong.
The exact opposite. It’s because I’d started to believe we could win the league that I saw that as the priority.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So you think we are an average team based on what you have seen of us this season? Not the past few games, the entire season so far?

Let me try and make what I am trying to say as simple as I can, if I can lol.

Only Saka will walk into any starting lineup in the EPL based on his performances and more importantly his undeniable quality.

Partey is quality and would be in everyone's squad. Jesus was rejected by City but 75% of teams might take him for now.

Saliba is a WIP and a maybe.

Gabriel is slightly above average.

Everyone else I didn't mention have shown with their performances this season that they are average players that can mix it up once in a while, especially our so called Captain.

To me, their is nothing wrong with being average and playing out of your skin, as a lot of them have done for most of the season and should be lauded for. But is this what I want for Arsenal, hell no!!

I mean their lack of ability and inability to rise up to the occasion can only take us so far when we have the kind of competitors we have in the EPL, and unfortunately that might not be far enough.

In short, this crop of limited players need to be vastly improved on as a matter of urgency and it was always clear, a lot of us were just to "high" to see it

As for the coach, he is representative of this squad in every way.

We must do better.

[Letters]

Average compared to what, out of interest? I mean, we've been top of the league for most of the season. It would have to be a really spectacular collapse for us to finish outside the top 4.
So even in the context of the PL I don't think you could say our players are average.

[Letters]

Massive Confirmation Bias but never had that feeling. I felt that we hadn’t been properly tested…(still haven’t come back from going a goal down away from home)….and just felt that Arteta’s idiosyncrasies and personality deficiencies would haunt us.
It was the Spurs and Utd results which made me believe. Even in our pomp we didn't win at Spurs that often. The Invincibles famously let a 2 goal lead slip, which we can forgive them for I guess as a point was enough to see us clinch the title. We didn't win at WHL in 2001/2 either. So for all Spurs' wobbles this year, a win there was a "statement" - City have subsequently lost there. And Utd were in excellent form when they came to us. They had the late slip against Palace but they'd won the 6 before that. A draw would not have been a disaster, the win was another "statement". You just get a feeling about title winning sides and I got that feeling then.

The City cup result was disappointing but we made some changes and most of us agreed the league had to be the priority. It wasn't a thumping.
Everton...ok, that was a bad one. We a ridiculously poor record there, I don't know if that got in our heads. But OK, no need to panic, you're going to get results like that.
Brentford...well they were in good form too, but we really needed to win that one. VAR dicked on us, but we shouldn't be relying on stuff like that. We needed a confident win and didn't get one.
Which put all the pressure on last night, and... :(

If there's one thing I've learned about football though is that feelings change quickly and frequently during a season. We win the next couple (ha, I know, but let's just say) and City slip and things could feel different again.
But 1 point from 9 and losing to your rivals at home...those things don't really happen in a title winning season.

[selassie]

Let me try and make what I am trying to say as simple as I can, if I can lol.

Only Saka will walk into any starting lineup in the EPL based on his performances and more importantly his undeniable quality.

Partey is quality and would be in everyone's squad. Jesus was rejected by City but 75% of teams might take him for now.

Saliba is a WIP and a maybe.

Gabriel is slightly above average.

Everyone else I didn't mention have shown with their performances this season that they are average players that can mix it up once in a while, especially our so called Captain.

To me, their is nothing wrong with being average and playing out of your skin, as a lot of them have done for most of the season and should be lauded for. But is this what I want for Arsenal, hell no!!

I mean their lack of ability and inability to rise up to the occasion can only take us so far when we have the kind of competitors we have in the EPL, and unfortunately that might not be far enough.

In short, this crop of limited players need to be vastly improved on as a matter of urgency and it was always clear, a lot of us were just to "high" to see it

As for the coach, he is representative of this squad in every way.

We must do better.

I get your point, but take issue with the fact you think we have a bunch of average players. I don't necessarily agree with this, I personally think our true level is somewhere between where we are now and where we were last season which in theory makes us a certified top 3 side, but not necessarily a certified title contender. Despite that we are still knee deep in a title race if we start picking up results as of Saturday.

I personally think the likes of Saliba, Partey, Odegaard, Saka and Jesus would get in most PL sides as starters, the spine of our team is very good IMO.

I definitely agree that we need to improve the team / squad for quality depth, I have been banging on about that for a while and was disappointed with us not securing our primary targets in the January window. I think Jorginho who played well last night isn't a bad pickup, but I would have preferred Caicedo for numerous reasons.

The squad is still a work in progress, we are still a long way behind City in terms of the make up our squad and the lack of quality we have in certain positions depth wise. That's why I'm not really panicking or throwing my hands up in the air because we are only as good as the make up of the squad which is pretty much what you are saying anyway, we are just disagreeing on the choice of words average v very good etc!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Average compared to what, out of interest? I mean, we've been top of the league for most of the season. It would have to be a really spectacular collapse for us to finish outside the top 4.
So even in the context of the PL I don't think you could say our players are average.

Their ability and ceiling Letters, and I mean "average" in the best possible way BTW.

I am not denigrating their effort, I mean its a miracle these limited bunch of players have achieved what they have achieved so far....it just like what Leicester did the year they won, difference being they had a determined bunch and a pretty seasoned manager who could keep them grounded and ride the inevitable waves that came along.

The thing is we are not a Leicester and our history demands that we do more and have one of the best set of players in the League who can consistently compete,we don't IMO.

This is targeted at those who believe a few tweaks will be enough to get this squad competitive for years to come.
As far as I am concerned, we still have whole lot of rebuilding to do.

[Marc Overmars]

I’ve seen enough that suggests we’re capable of taking this to the wire but can we deal with adversity? I’m not convinced. There’s a lot of football to be played and if, and that’s a big if currently, we rediscover some form then the title is still a possibility. End of the day we’re only behind on a goal difference with a game in hand. It’s all to play for but the problem is this vulnerability that’s crept in over the last few games.

Last night I saw a team that wilted once it became apparent what they were up against. It was like the big games during Wenger’s latter years. Mistakes galore, lack of concentration and just a real lack of belief that we could even lay a glove on them.

Liverpool were never phased like that when they faced City during their title challenges. That’s the difference.

[selassie]

Their ability and ceiling Letters, and I mean "average" in the best possible way BTW.

I am not denigrating their effort, I mean its a miracle these limited bunch of players have achieved what they have achieved so far....it just like what Leicester did the year they won, difference being they had a determined bunch and a pretty seasoned manager who could keep them grounded and ride the inevitable waves that came along.

The thing is we are not a Leicester and our history demands that we do more and have one of the best set of players in the League who can consistently compete,we don't IMO.

This is targeted at those who believe a few tweaks will be enough to get this squad competitive for years to come.
As far as I am concerned, we still have whole lot of rebuilding to do.

It is nothing like Leicester! The team before this season was a top 4 contender, we should have finished top 4 last season but collapsed, maybe it was a mentality issue, but injuries played a big part. In the summer we secured Jesus and Zinchenko as starters and they most certainly added a lot of quality to an already half decent side.

Don't get me wrong they have surprised me this season and I never expected us to be in this position, but it has not come as a complete "Leicester" style shock if you look at the progress made over the past few seasons and our recruitment and general improvement of the players already within the squad.

We are going to toe to toe with a Serial Title Winner, Leicester won it in an era where there wasn't even a dominant team in PL at the time, very very different to now.

Besides the season is not yet over, like Letters said, I started to believe after the Spurs and Man United victories but I have always sat on the fence and maintained that we would need a near perfect season to win the Title, we would need all of our best players available throughout the entire season because we simply lack quality depth options or at least seamless ones that are like for like replacements quality wise.

[selassie]

I’ve seen enough that suggests we’re capable of taking this to the wire but can we deal with adversity? I’m not convinced. There’s a lot of football to be played and if, and that’s a big if currently, we rediscover some form then the title is still a possibility. End of the day we’re only behind on a goal difference with a game in hand. It’s all to play for but the problem is this vulnerability that’s crept in over the last few games.

Last night I saw a team that wilted once it became apparent what they were up against. It was like the big games during Wenger’s latter years. Mistakes galore, lack of concentration and just a real lack of belief that we could even lay a glove on them.

Liverpool were never phased like that when they faced City during their title challenges. That’s the difference.

:gp:

Yeah I totally agree with this. Especially the part in bold.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I get your point, but take issue with the fact you think we have a bunch of average players. I don't necessarily agree with this, I personally think our true level is somewhere between where we are now and where we were last season which in theory makes us a certified top 3 side, but not necessarily a certified title contender. Despite that we are still knee deep in a title race if we start picking up results as of Saturday.

I personally think the likes of Saliba, Partey, Odegaard, Saka and Jesus would get in most PL sides as starters, the spine of our team is very good IMO.

I definitely agree that we need to improve the team / squad for quality depth, I have been banging on about that for a while and was disappointed with us not securing our primary targets in the January window. I think Jorginho who played well last night isn't a bad pickup, but I would have preferred Caicedo for numerous reasons.

The squad is still a work in progress, we are still a long way behind City in terms of the make up our squad and the lack of quality we have in certain positions depth wise. That's why I'm not really panicking or throwing my hands up in the air because we are only as good as the make up of the squad which is pretty much what you are saying anyway, we are just disagreeing on the choice of words average v very good etc!

So our disagreement is on our true level or our ability

I believe this team has overachieved when you look at the parts of the team individually. I firmly believe that the parts that make up City, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man U (in that order) are clearly better than us.

Our level if I look at the parts of the team is Newcastlish.....7-11ish in the League, average.

However, Arteta's system initially got the best out of these average players and thus our Team as a unit with our style of play is where they are as this has always been a team sport- would we be further with players of the ability of Spurs and Chelsea, in my opinion we would be out of sight this season if all things were held constant.

Again my belief is that we can and should do better in personnel which is practically most of the positions in this team.

[Marc Overmars]

:gp:

Yeah I totally agree with this. Especially the part in bold.

It’s an inferiority complex. I don’t believe there was a single player on that pitch in red who felt we could win that game.

[selassie]

So our disagreement is on our true level or our ability

I believe this team has overachieved when you look at the parts of the team individually. I firmly believe that the parts that make up City, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man U (in that order) are clearly better than us.

Our level if I look at the parts of the team is Newcastlish.....7-11ish in the League, average.

However, Arteta's system initially got the best out of these average players and thus our Team as a unit with our style of play is where they are as this has always been a team sport- would we be further with players of the ability of Spurs and Chelsea, in my opinion we would be out of sight this season if all things were held constant.

Again my belief is that we can and should do better in personnel which is practically most of the positions in this team.

City are definitely better team than us, Spurs? Come on Man! Kane and Son are the only two from that side who get into our current First XI if you include Jesus and Partey. We are more organised than them and have better players than them IMO.

Chelsea is a question mark, the potential they have in their team / squad is up there with City so I think as of next season they may well be a better team than us but right now we are better than them. Liverpool depends on their recruitment this summer, right now we are definitely better than them. Man Utd I think are a top striker and top midfielder away from being a better team than us but right now I'd say we are marginally better than them, or level pegging if I take off my bias hat!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

City are definitely better team than us, Spurs? Come on Man! Kane and Son are the only two from that side who get into our current First XI if you include Jesus and Partey. We are more organised than them and have better players than them IMO.

Chelsea is a question mark, the potential they have in their team / squad is up there with City so I think as of next season they may well be a better team than us but right now we are better than them. Liverpool depends on their recruitment this summer, right now we are definitely better than them. Man Utd I think are a top striker and top midfielder away from being a better team than us but right now I'd say we are marginally better than them, or level pegging if I take off my bias hat!

I don't agree, there is a difference between performances and ability, and Spurs and the other teams I mentioned have players with ability whose ceiling is far above our tin men like Odegaard, Xhaka and co.

Again we are where we are because most of the team is playing beyond its ability and giving laudable performances, the same way every unbiased pundit have kept insisting the others are playing below their ability which is why they have faltered....anyway our situation is not sustainable in such a demanding league and can only get us so far.

To think we're currently proving idiots like Neville and Keane right :smh:

[selassie]

I don't agree, there is a difference between performances and ability, and Spurs and the other teams I mentioned have players with ability whose ceiling is far above our tin men like Odegaard, Xhaka and co.

Again we are where we are because most of the team is playing beyond its ability and giving laudable performances, the same way every unbiased pundit have kept insisting the others are playing below their ability which is why they have faltered....anyway our situation is not sustainable in such a demanding league and can only get us so far.

To think we're currently proving idiots like Neville and Keane right :smh:

Odegaard and Xhaka both walk into Spurs first XI IMO. Spurs midfield consists of the likes of Bentancur (good player) Pepe Sarr (average), Hojberg (average), Bissouma (average) and Oliver Skipp (clogger). They don't even play with an attacking midfielder / creative midfielder, their Midfield is a complete mess.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah don’t agree with that re: Spurs

Our goalkeeper is better than Lloris, our defence is better than theirs, our central midfield is poor (Partey aside) but so is theirs, I think Saka is better than Kulusevski, Martinelli better than Richarlison. Son and Kane are the only two players that make them on a similar level to us…clearly both better than what we have up front.

[Mac76]

Massive Confirmation Bias but never had that feeling. I felt that we hadn’t been properly tested…(still haven’t come back from going a goal down away from home)….and just felt that Arteta’s idiosyncrasies and personality deficiencies would haunt us.

Losing becomes a habbit, and losing ten times in a row to City before tonight means we just don’t have that belief that we can beat them or even get a draw against them.

We had to have everything go perfectly, won the two previous games, have our strongest available XI and we had neither of these.

Also there’s an argument to be made the players just aren’t good enough. Some of them have the potential - Martinelli, Saka, Jesus, Odegaard. But there’s just things that aren’t right, Ben White has been shite for a while now, Saliba looks like he needs to be dropped, Zinchenko is stinking the place out.

And let’s be fair even Ramsdale has been poor.


Need wholesale changes for Villa

Drop Zinchenko, drop Xhaka, drop Saliba, drop Eddie


Put in the Polack defender, put in Tierney, put in Vieira behind Odegaard and have Trossard and Martinelli play interchangeable between left wing and centre forward.

prior to the Everton game I thought we'd give Citeh a really good game but we've collapsed as Letters says.

on the points people are making about the squad I actually think it's better than Spuds for sure, Chelsea is hard to say as they're all over the place - Man Utd have some very good players and clearly a manager who can turn things around.

While we're not really comparable in lots of ways, it's worth looking at Leicester City who obviously won a title out of the blue - firstly they had some very good players (e.g. Vardy, Kante) who, crucially, stayed fit through the season and secondly created a great team spirit.

We have been unlucky with injuries, particularly re attacking options - Nelson, Jesus and ESR all out at the same time

I think Arteta has created a better spirit at the club but I fear he is a bit robotic with his team structure and it's starting to show - his failure to switch formations, try different things when Plan A isn't working is a real issue.

Martinelli's a good example, I actually don't think he's having a dip in form as such, I just don't think he's being used intelligently enough.

Arteta gets slavishly attached to some players, we've seen it with Xhaka and now Zin and Eddie, both of whom are failing now but being played time and time again without even being subbed during the game.

Arteta's inexperience and intansigence is for me our biggest weakness, another coach could win the title with these guys, a lot of them are extremely talented.

He can now put this Citeh game behind him and use these last three games as a lesson in how sticking to what you think is your best 11 isn't always the best policy.

We won't win the league now and I think even second is a big challenge - it's essentially all about top four IMO

To reinvigorate the team Arteta needs to cut loose a bit and start changing things.

I thought when Vieira came on, he and Trossard really started to create some quicker moves and be more incisive - the game was already gone by then of course (an example of Arteta using his subs too late btw)

Tomi messed up a bit and I think White wil come back

I agree with your suggested team changes though I'm not sure Saliba's any worse than Gabriel who was lucky not to concede a pel yesterday- we need something like this against Villa:

Ram
White
The new Polish guy
Saliba
Tierney
Georginio
Odegaard
Vieira
Saka
Trossard
Martinelli

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Odegaard and Xhaka both walk into Spurs first XI IMO. Spurs midfield consists of the likes of Bentancur (good player) Pepe Sarr (average), Hojberg (average), Bissouma (average) and Oliver Skipp (clogger). They don't even play with an attacking midfielder / creative midfielder, their Midfield is a complete mess.


When it comes to Spurs I take it most gooners can't be impartial for even a second.

Anyway the stats show they don't play City and lose woefully every single time and have finished ahead of us on the league for the last few years with these "inferior" players... but lets not let that stop us from being a bit rational.

Anyway I'd prefer we stop deflecting and actually get back to looking at the ability of our players individually.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

prior to the Everton game I thought we'd give Citeh a really good game but we've collapsed as Letters says.

on the points people are making about the squad I actually think it's better than Spuds for sure, Chelsea is hard to say as they're all over the place - Man Utd have some very good players and clearly a manager who can turn things around.

While we're not really comparable in lots of ways, it's worth looking at Leiceseter City who obviously won a title out of ths blue - firstly they had some very good players (e.g. Vardy, Kante) who, crucially, stayed fit through the season and secondly created a great team spirit.

We have been unlucky with injuries, particularly re attacking options - Nelson, Jesus and ESR all out at the same time

I think Arteta has created a better spirit at the club but I fear he is a bit robotic with his team structure and it's starting to show - his failure to witch formations, try different things when Plan A isn't working is a real issue.

Martinelli's a good example, I actually don't think he's having a dip in form as such I just don't think he's being used intelligently enough.

Arteta gets slavishly attached to some players, we've seen it with Xhaka and now Zin and Eddie, both of whom are failing now but being played time and time again without even being subbed during the game.

Arteta's inexperience and intansigence is for me our biggest weakness, another coach could win the title with these guys a lot of them are extremely talented.

He can now put this Citeh game behind him and use these last three games as a lesson in how sticking to waht you think is your best 11 isn't alwys the best policy.

We won't win the league now and I think even second is a big challenge - it's essentially all about top four IMO

To reinvigorate the team Arteta needs to cut loose a bit and start changing things.

I thought when Vieira came on, he and Trossard really started to create some quicker moves and be more incisive - the game was already gone by then of course (an example of Arteta using his subs too late btw)

Tomi messed up a bit and I think White wil come back

I agree with your suggested team changes though I'm not sure Saliba's any worse than Gabriel who was lucky not to concede a pel yesterday- we need something like this against Villa:

Ram
White
The new Polish guy
Saliba
Tierney
Georginio
Odegaard
Vieira
Saka
Trossard
Martinelli

I like your post, we clearly need to shake things up , I'm just losing faith that there is much room to do so because of our players obvious limitations.

Anyway, Arteta needs to earn his keep and do something different till our game changers get back from injury. Lets see if he'll bother.

[HCZ_Reborn]

When it comes to Spurs I take it most gooners can't be impartial for even a second.

Anyway the stats show they don't play City and lose woefully every single time and have finished ahead of us on the league for the last few years with these "inferior" players... but lets not let that stop us from being a bit rational.

Anyway I'd prefer we stop deflecting and actually get back to looking at the ability of our players individually.

It’s not about impartiality, I think our overall squad is better than theirs currently. Son and Kane are the only two players who are objectively better than anyone we have in the same position.

They have a lot of decent players for sure, but I prefer where we are in terms of squad development than them. Yes you’re right they are capable of beating City where we are not, but as awful as our record is…Spurs have an awful record against countless other teams (not beaten Liverpool since 2017, not beaten Chelsea in the league since 2018, have lost their last four league games against Man United)

Yes they’ve finished above us since 2017, but that’s not likely happening this season

[Mac76]

It’s not about impartiality, I think our overall squad is better than theirs currently. Son and Kane are the only two players who are objectively better than anyone we have in the same position.

They have a lot of decent players for sure, but I prefer where we are in terms of squad development than them. Yes you’re right they are capable of beating City where we are not, but as awful as our record is…Spurs have an awful record against countless other teams (not beaten Liverpool since 2017, not beaten Chelsea in the league since 2018, have lost their last four league games against Man United)

Yes they’ve finished above us since 2017, but that’s not likely happening this season

Agree, although I do worry that if our freefall lasts much longer and they pick up form, it could be closer than we'd like, but getting back to the point, pure talent-wise we have a better team IMO

[selassie]

When it comes to Spurs I take it most gooners can't be impartial for even a second.

Anyway the stats show they don't play City and lose woefully every single time and have finished ahead of us on the league for the last few years with these "inferior" players... but lets not let that stop us from being a bit rational.

Anyway I'd prefer we stop deflecting and actually get back to looking at the ability of our players individually.

Agree to disagree ;)

[Niall_Quinn]

Let me try and make what I am trying to say as simple as I can, if I can lol.

Only Saka will walk into any starting lineup in the EPL based on his performances and more importantly his undeniable quality.

Partey is quality and would be in everyone's squad. Jesus was rejected by City but 75% of teams might take him for now.

Saliba is a WIP and a maybe.

Gabriel is slightly above average.

Everyone else I didn't mention have shown with their performances this season that they are average players that can mix it up once in a while, especially our so called Captain.

To me, their is nothing wrong with being average and playing out of your skin, as a lot of them have done for most of the season and should be lauded for. But is this what I want for Arsenal, hell no!!

I mean their lack of ability and inability to rise up to the occasion can only take us so far when we have the kind of competitors we have in the EPL, and unfortunately that might not be far enough.

In short, this crop of limited players need to be vastly improved on as a matter of urgency and it was always clear, a lot of us were just to "high" to see it

As for the coach, he is representative of this squad in every way.

We must do better.

I don't get it. Partey is absolute shite. A clueless plodder who has no appreciation of what's happening on the pitch. He loses the ball in key situations so many times. I mean he's better than some of the shit we've had in the middle, but that's not saying much. But he's still nowhere near basic standard. It's a mystery how people can't see him dithering helplessly on the ball, panicking and turning forward play into last ditch defence with one horrible attempt at a pass. He's useless in defensive play in the box too. I guess provided you can run for 90 minutes and occasionally fluke a volley or hit a 99% stat in sideways passing it makes muster with the diminished standards.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just saw Pep congratulating Agent Zinchenko

Aren't you one of the... fans who wanted a quick out from the cup? Against City, no less? Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't pay much attention to the flip-flop shite spewing out of the goldfish brigade. You want to roll over in one match and then prevail in the next? Lose to win? Doesn't make sense.

Winners win, though they can sometimes come up against other winners and then one of those winners has to lose. It's all in the mentality. When you throw a match to win the next you threw a lot more than the result. Losing is a habit too.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Invincibles didn’t. They crashed out of the 2 biggest cup competitions in a week.
No-one on here wanted to lose in the Cup, but given that we were (at the time) improbably in the title race and given that our squad clearly isn’t deep enough to compete on all fronts, the league was the clear priority.
The difference is The Invincibles picked themselves up and beat Liverpool (thanks to Henry’s heroics, I have to say I was sitting there at half time feeling that it was all about to fall apart). This lot have responded to the City loss by continuing to lose.
Bother. They’re a young squad and hopefully we will continue to invest in it and improve, but I can’t help feeling it was now or never for the title with what other clubs are doing.


The exact opposite. It’s because I’d started to believe we could win the league that I saw that as the priority.

Used to be that the same 11 played in every match, wind, rain or snow. Proper men. Now we have these modern players. Of course they can't compete on all fronts. That would be hard.

Difference between the Invincibles and whatever crap has been shat onto the field in the years since, The former took to the field and expected to win. That latter take to the field and hope to win. The former is about belief. That latter is a maybe, of a what-if, or a perhaps. Yeah, if other teams fuck up we might fluke a title. But let's face it, what we're really after is the Top Four Trophy. Now the habitual collapse has commenced I doubt even that's a possibility.

[LDG]

Used to be that the same 11 played in every match, wind, rain or snow. Proper men. Now we have these modern players. Of course they can't compete on all fronts. That would be hard.

Difference between the Invincibles and whatever crap has been shat onto the field in the years since, The former took to the field and expected to win. That latter take to the field and hope to win. The former is about belief. That latter is a maybe, of a what-if, or a perhaps. Yeah, if other teams fuck up we might fluke a title. But let's face it, what we're really after is the Top Four Trophy. Now the habitual collapse has commenced I doubt even that's a possibility.

Is it fluke if another team win the title if we fuck up?

Point re the 11 playing come what may. Whilst I get the poor pampered rich kids thing…in fairness, the game’s athleticism has moved on considerably from the good old days. I’m sure you’d be able to keep up though?

[Letters]

Used to be that the same 11 played in every match, wind, rain or snow. Proper men. Now we have these modern players. Of course they can't compete on all fronts. That would be hard.
The game has moved on. I think we are on mostly the same page about that, a lot of the change has been for the worse. But the game is certainly faster now and that hasn’t happened overnight. The Invincibles weren’t the same 11 players week in, week out either. If I’m counting right 20 players got medals, meaning 10 appearances or more. But whether you think this is a good thing or not, football is more of a squad game now and we just don’t have the depth of City. And we all know how City have “achieved” that squad depth.


Difference between the Invincibles and whatever crap has been shat onto the field in the years since, The former took to the field and expected to win. That latter take to the field and hope to win. The former is about belief. That latter is a maybe, of a what-if, or a perhaps. Yeah, if other teams fuck up we might fluke a title.
You’re right about that belief. And it wasn’t just about us, most teams who played us expected to lose. I saw Parlour talk about how he’d see it in the tunnel before the game, he’d see it in the opposition players’ eyes. They knew they’d lose. And of course occasionally they would nick something because that’s football for you (like Forest yesterday who got a real pasting but contrived to get a point). But mostly it was almost job done before a ball was kicked. BUT, that winning mentality of our players and fear of us from other teams didn’t happen overnight. This was a side who had won the Double two years previously and really should have retained it the year after. It was one of the best club sides I’ve seen, our reputation was earned by results. Last year we spent much of the season falling over our own feet trying to finish in the Top 4. This season is much improved so far but that winning mentality and fear factor from other sides takes a time to develop.


But let's face it, what we're really after is the Top Four Trophy. Now the habitual collapse has commenced I doubt even that's a possibility.
That was certainly the limit of my ambition at the start of the season. It just felt unrealistic to expect a title challenge from a side who couldn’t even finish the Top 4 job last season. I now have loftier ambitions. We have been wobbling recently, hopefully yesterday’s result will get us going. Gut feeling is City will steamroll us but, again, we all know how they’ve “achieved” their success.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is it fluke if another team win the title if we fuck up?

Point re the 11 playing come what may. Whilst I get the poor pampered rich kids thing…in fairness, the game’s athleticism has moved on considerably from the good old days. I’m sure you’d be able to keep up though?

How can you say that when they spend most of their time strolling around the pitch playing bullet-proof safe passes? You need to watch an 80s game again to remind yourself. This current lot are a s queer as fuck.

[Niall_Quinn]

The game has moved on. I think we are on mostly the same page about that, a lot of the change has been for the worse. But the game is certainly faster now and that hasn’t happened overnight. The Invincibles weren’t the same 11 players week in, week out either. If I’m counting right 20 players got medals, meaning 10 appearances or more. But whether you think this is a good thing or not, football is more of a squad game now and we just don’t have the depth of City. And we all know how City have “achieved” that squad depth.


You’re right about that belief. And it wasn’t just about us, most teams who played us expected to lose. I saw Parlour talk about how he’d see it in the tunnel before the game, he’d see it in the opposition players’ eyes. They knew they’d lose. And of course occasionally they would nick something because that’s football for you (like Forest yesterday who got a real pasting but contrived to get a point). But mostly it was almost job done before a ball was kicked. BUT, that winning mentality of our players and fear of us from other teams didn’t happen overnight. This was a side who had won the Double two years previously and really should have retained it the year after. It was one of the best club sides I’ve seen, our reputation was earned by results. Last year we spent much of the season falling over our own feet trying to finish in the Top 4. This season is much improved so far but that winning mentality and fear factor from other sides takes a time to develop.


That was certainly the limit of my ambition at the start of the season. It just felt unrealistic to expect a title challenge from a side who couldn’t even finish the Top 4 job last season. I now have loftier ambitions. We have been wobbling recently, hopefully yesterday’s result will get us going. Gut feeling is City will steamroll us but, again, we all know how they’ve “achieved” their success.

Just like "democracy" has moved on. It's all bullshit and you know it. But for some reason you need to believe otherwise.

[Niall_Quinn]

Look Letters. I don't actually hate you. You need to know that. I'm using you as an archetype. I'm aware of the very fine line between courage and compliance and I'm fully aware of the costs the former brings. But, I'm telling you, if only the AVERAGE person would stand up - life would be very different. `it's not nearly as scary as you think and those unassailable authority figures live by very, very fine margins. If, for one second, you and those like you could believe that - the world would be fixed.

Yet you turn your fire on us instead. I forgive you because you do not know what you do.

Which verse is that?

[Niall_Quinn]

The bottom line. The same patterns are all there. We'll be lucky to get top 4. Other teams will have to fuck up for us to make it.

There's no spine, no guts, no fire in this team. They are just a bunch of girly-men turning up to go through the motions so they can justify they catastrophically immoral pay packet. There's no sign of a team and no sign of the desire it takes to prevail over groups of men who actually believe in the team spirit

The club has been fucked for years and it is still fucked. Just because it's a tame league does not disguise that fact. As we have just seen when it really mattered.

It's not about Arteta. Seems like he's a fairly decent manager by the lowly modern standard. It's about sport. Something that doesn't exist anymore.