Arsenal v Southampton, 20:00 BST (21/04, SS Main Event).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If the title has gone...we'll probably win easily. :ninja:

At least it isn't as long to wait until the next game - I really hate one game a week.

[Marc Overmars]

A kind fixture to have at this stage at least.

Result obviously the most important but we need a dominant performance too.

[Mac76]

We're playing for self-respect now, need a strong home performance so I can go to the pub (reasonably) happy afterwards :)

Also I think it will be St Totteringham's Day :beer:

[Marc Overmars]

Saliba is doing some light training but won’t make this match. Hearing he could be risked for City which would be a huge gamble but I also think playing Holding means an almost certain defeat, unless he has the game of his life.

In short: :rose:

[Marc Overmars]

Zinchenko also remains out.

[IBK]

Zinchenko also remains out.

Xhaka at RB with Trossard in his position? Arteta will probs stick with Tierney though.

[Marc Overmars]

Xhaka at RB with Trossard in his position? Arteta will probs stick with Tierney though.

The only defender we had who could step in seamlessly was Tomiyasu due to his versatility. We just have to accept that rigid players like Tierney and Holding may cause the system to malfunction because you don’t get the same level of distribution into midfield. If Tomi was available he would be playing left back ahead of Tierney I’d imagine.

It should be fine here against the worst team in the league but against the better sides it’s going to look very scruffy like it did last year.

[IBK]

The only defender we had who could step in seamlessly was Tomiyasu due to his versatility. We just have to accept that rigid players like Tierney and Holding may cause the system to malfunction because you don’t get the same level of distribution into midfield. If Tomi was available he would be playing left back ahead of Tierney I’d imagine.

It should be fine here against the worst team in the league but against the better sides it’s going to look very scruffy like it did last year.

Agreed re the distribution - which is why I think Xhaka might fix that at LB...

[Mac76]

Zinchenko also remains out.

some good news at least :ninja:

[Mac76]

0-3 Ward-Prowse hatter

[GP]

Xhaka at RB with Trossard in his position? Arteta will probs stick with Tierney though.

Probably. Zinchenko is obviously one of our most important players, as we saw against West Ham.

[IBK]

Probably. Zinchenko is obviously one of our most important players, as we saw against West Ham.

Its funny but my immediate thought was that we are likely to misfire in attack, because Zinchenko is such an important component of our ball progression. But we started like a train at West Ham without him in the team. It's easy to think of him as not really a defender, but its the control that he gives us that we missed badly on Sunday. Tierney just can't offer the security and connections that Zinchenko can. However, Tierney hasn't really had the playing time to get into his groove, so I am hoping that his defensive game at least will be more secure tomorrow. Security on the ball wise - maybe Trossard to replace Xhaka?

Won't surprise me at all though to see exactly the same starting 11 against Southampton. Hope they are looking to make amends...

[Mac76]

Probably. Zinchenko is obviously one of our most important players, as we saw against West Ham.

or you could mention the match against Liverpool, where the same reversal took place and he was on the pitch for almost the entire game and was comprehensively done to give away the second goal

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Its funny but my immediate thought was that we are likely to misfire in attack, because Zinchenko is such an important component of our ball progression. But we started like a train at West Ham without him in the team. It's easy to think of him as not really a defender, but its the control that he gives us that we missed badly on Sunday. Tierney just can't offer the security and connections that Zinchenko can. However, Tierney hasn't really had the playing time to get into his groove, so I am hoping that his defensive game at least will be more secure tomorrow. Security on the ball wise - maybe Trossard to replace Xhaka?

Won't surprise me at all though to see exactly the same starting 11 against Southampton. Hope they are looking to make amends..

Agree with a lot of this post though the Trossard in the Xhaka role is something I've never contemplated and still would only make sense to me if we were chasing a game or something.

The part in bold though will bring about a wry smile if it holds, and I do think it will hold.

[LDG]

Why wouldn’t you play the same 11 and tell them, batter and don’t stop until I fucking tell you to stop.

Someone is due a fucking hiding by us, not stopping at 4

Go for a huge goal margin, don’t pussy it. Lay down a fucking marker and give City something to think about. 7 points on the board regardless of games played is better than no games in hand and one point ahead.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think tonight is a game where you can afford to mix it up somewhat.

I would consider playing Jorginho and Partey together just to see if it’s a partnership that might work at the Etihad

I think Saka probably should be benched for this game and Trossard or Nelson played

And although I have no issue playing Holding tonight I would maybe give Kiwior a start to see if two left footed defenders can play together because Holding is just too slow to be played against City.

[Mac76]

I think tonight is a game where you can afford to mix it up somewhat.

I would consider playing Jorginho and Partey together just to see if it’s a partnership that might work at the Etihad

I think Saka probably should be benched for this game and Trossard or Nelson played

And although I have no issue playing Holding tonight I would maybe give Kiwior a start to see if two left footed defenders can play together because Holding is just too slow to be played against City.

who would Jorg be replacing - Xhaka?

definitely Saka should not start and Trossard should be given a run out

Kiwior certainly needs minutes but do we give Gabriel a rest ahead of Citeh?

[Marc Overmars]

I doubt he’ll bench Saka, he probably thinks it would send out the wrong message after the missed penalty. Even though Trossard deserves a start ahead of him.

Just praying we don’t make tonight harder than it needs to be. The writing is already on the wall for next Wednesday and a flaky performance tonight will have City salivating.

[HCZ_Reborn]

who would Jorg be replacing - Xhaka?

definitely Saka should not start and Trossard should be given a run out

Kiwior certainly needs minutes but do we give Gabriel a rest ahead of Citeh?


Instead of Xhaka yes

And I’d play Kiwior instead of Holding to see how he plays alongside Gabriel with a view of making them a potential centre back pairing against City

I have zero expectation that any of this will happen

[Mac76]

I doubt he’ll bench Saka, he probably thinks it would send out the wrong message after the missed penalty.

Yes i suspect so too, silly really, he could just sit down and explain to Saka that it's resting him for Citeh or whatever and say the same publicly

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Instead of Xhaka yes

And I’d play Kiwior instead of Holding to see how he plays alongside Gabriel with a view of making them a potential centre back pairing against City

I have zero expectation that any of this will happen

Things we can agree on :shock&horror:

A Partey and Jorginho partnership should have been tested at least once, and so should Kiwor instead of Holding seeing as even the blind can see his pace is an issue.

Yes it can be argued that making all these changes just before Citeh is s crazy and confirms we're succumbing to pressure...but is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results not the true definition of insanity (according to "Einstein" anyway)??

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Yes i suspect so too, silly really, he could just sit down and explain to Saka that it's resting him for Citeh or whatever and say the same publicly

It would be a no brainer if he wasn't learning on the job.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Things we can agree on :shock&horror:

A Partey and Jorginho partnership should have been tested at least once, and so should Kiwor instead of Holding seeing as even the blind can see his pace is an issue.

Yes it can be argued that making all these changes just before Citeh is s crazy and confirms we're succumbing to pressure...but is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results not the true definition of insanity (according to "Einstein" anyway)??


In an ideal world change would be made to a team before it becomes necessary…but if you’re winning games you will become more reticent to change things up.

Regardless of what Xhaka has or hasn’t done, it seems sensible to me to look into the possibility of whether two midfielders who play a more defensive role can work together simply because even with your strongest defence you need that extra protection when going away to a big side.

Apparently the whole “Definition of Madness” quote attributed to Einstein is apocryphal, read this very long article once about how there is this tendency to misattribute quotes to famous people. This is of course clearly irrelevant to the point that if something isn’t working in a football team to attempt to remedy it (either through tactical or personnel changes) is not unreasonable.

Frankly after last week the only player I can definitely say I want to start is Jesus

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Apparently the whole “Definition of Madness” quote attributed to Einstein is apocryphal, read this very long article once about how there is this tendency to misattribute quotes to famous people. This is of course clearly irrelevant to the point that if something isn’t working in a football team to attempt to remedy it (either through tactical or personnel changes) is not unreasonable.

Frankly after last week the only player I can definitely say I want to start is Jesus

Yeah, probably why I put the quotation marks on his name...though people swear its the sort of thing he would have said.

As for the team, the undroppable on current form to me is Martinelli, and thats saying a lot.

But whatever Arteta chooses to do today, the fact is this is the last dress rehearsal he has before the main event, if he's smart, he'll make it count.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah, probably why I put the quotation marks on his name...though people swear its the sort of thing he would have said.

As for the team, the undroppable on current form to me is Martinelli, and thats saying a lot.

But whatever Arteta chooses to do today, the fact is this is the last dress rehearsal he has before the main event, if he's smart, he'll make it count.

Wasn’t acquainted with him, so not sure. A lot of Einstein’s theories turned out to be wrong (and in his lifetime…worth looking up a chap called George LeMaitre) but I guess the thing with science is the expectation that you come up with ideas and then someone will tweak your ideas when they come up against other discoveries that disprove your suggestions.

Oh and Einstein would definitely have been cancelled because some of his views on non white civilisations :haha:

This has nothing to do with football however but it is interesting all the same

Martinelli isn’t doing a lot wrong but does sometimes drift out of games and like Saka there is an argument that he has been over played

Jesus even with the yellow card was our best player against the Ammers and I think the one thing everyone agrees on here (I think) is that it was folly to remove him

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Arsenal: Ramsdale, White, Holding, Gabriel, Zinchenko, Partey, Vieira, Odegaard, Saka, Jesus, Martinelli.
Subs: Turner, Tierney, Smith Rowe, Nketiah, Kiwior, Trossard, Jorginho, Nelson, Walters

Southampton: Bazunu; Walker-Peters, Bednarek, Bella-Kotchap, Perraud; Walcott, Ward-Prowse, Lavia, Elyounoussi; Alcaraz, A. Armstrong
Subs: McCarthy, Lyanco, Caleta-Car, Aribo, Orsic, Onuachu, S. Armstrong, Sulemana, Diallo

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arsenal: Ramsdale, White, Holding, Gabriel, Zinchenko, Partey, Vieira, Odegaard, Saka, Jesus, Martinelli.

Xhaka not on the bench which suggests to me that the only reason he isn’t playing is because he’s not fit

Yep disappointed that Arteta hasn’t taken the opportunity here to change things up

If I’m right and Xhaka isn’t fit for Wednesday i don’t think I’d want Vieira starting that game.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He was ill this morning apparently

[HCZ_Reborn]

He was ill this morning apparently

Yep just read that on sky sports website

[Marc Overmars]

Completely forgot Vieira even existed.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Completely forgot Vieira even existed.

Wishful thinking

[Marc Overmars]

Hopefully he’s been in the gym and upped his protein intake.

[Mac76]

The way it's going with injuries, next Weds willl not just be a defeat but a total nassacre

[Marc Overmars]

The way it's going with injuries, next Weds willl not just be a defeat but a total nassacre

Let’s just win this first because if we don’t it’s all going to be pretty academic.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nassacre Hussain. :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Come on you morons.

Time for a response.

[Marc Overmars]

OMG RAMSDALE

0-1 Alcaraz

Fuck off

[HCZ_Reborn]

Let me guess along with Ramsdale being a mong, we also backed off them ridiculously


No Ramsdale just provided an assist. Dickhead

[Marc Overmars]

Sunday league shit man. How is he making such a lazy pass a minute into the game?

Absolute moron.

[Marc Overmars]

Martinelli getting a bit of joy at least.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

At least we can't throw away a 2-0 lead for a third game in a row.

[Marc Overmars]

0-2 Walcott

We’ve bottled this. Can’t defend the indefensible.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-2. Fucking hell.

[Marc Overmars]

Don’t think there’s any doubt now that Wednesday is going to be a very hard watch.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Zinchenko right across goal.

[Marc Overmars]

MARTINELLI!

Nice volley

1-2

[McNamara That Ghost...]

MARTINELLI!!!!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Maybe we really are Liverpool 13/14. :lol:

:rose:

[Marc Overmars]

Maybe we really are Liverpool 13/14. :lol:

:rose:

Yep.

Always think it’s a bit ominous when you’re conceding so many goals and going life and death to win games.

We look like a nervous mess.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ramsdale double save!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Good clearance from Odegaard.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yep.

Always think it’s a bit ominous when you’re conceding so many goals and going life and death to win games.

We look like a nervous mess.

We need to do something with Saliba and get him out there on Wednesday.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Theo scores and now goes injured.

Theo remembers he is a Gooner.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Henry and Vieira. :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Alcaraz was booked, now Peraud is too.

[Marc Overmars]

We need to do something with Saliba and get him out there on Wednesday.

Only hope we have of a result is if the forwards have the game of their lives. No way do we escape from there without conceding at least 2.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

That's not on from Martinelli.

Awful landing for Bednarek.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Walker-Peters booked now.

[Marc Overmars]

Close to 2-2

Cleared off the line

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yellow for Zinchenko.

[Letters]

FFS, come on you twats.
No disgrace to get mowed down by City but don’t just hand it to them.

:doh:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-2 HT. Berks.

[Marc Overmars]

HT 1-2

Can’t expect to win the league with such a lack of composure. Everything that was great about us and got us to the top of the table just isn’t there at the moment.

If it’s not coming from Martinelli or Saka beating their man there isn’t really much else happening.

Our build up play from the back has gone to shit as well.

[Marc Overmars]

Vieira is struggling to get involved. Should have played Jorginho.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Well at least like someone said, we won't be throwing away a 2 goal lead this time.

Started watching a bit late so missed their 1st goal but didn't miss Theo' s and our jittery play.

For some reason, immediately they scored I tried to put a punt on us winning but luckily a bit of sense hit me and I put something on us scoring 3 goals instead.

I'm beginning to think this teams craves punishment and are only happy to do things the hard way.

We've been pretty poor though and I'm not sure why of all the players Arteta could have brought in for Xhaka its the one we've all forgotten about he chose to play.

Anyway, heres wishing us all the best and hoping some how we grind the result we need.

How Trossard cannot get into this team baffles me, but Saka has been better today (against really poor defenders).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Alcaraz off, Lyanco on.

[Marc Overmars]

So much time for us on the ball now.

Just makes me think we’re going to be hit on the counter.

[Marc Overmars]

Vieira. :haha:

Go away.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Vieira off, Trossard on.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Trossard on.

IBK gets what he wanted.

Common sense prevails.

[Marc Overmars]

1-3.

Absolutely pathetic.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-3. fucking hell.

[Marc Overmars]

How has Jesus put that over? FFS.

[Marc Overmars]

Can’t defend them from the ridicule they’re going to receive now.

This bottle job belongs in the hall of fame.

[Letters]

1-3. fucking hell.

:gp:

[Letters]

Can’t defend them from the ridicule they’re going to receive now.

This bottle job belongs in the hall of fame.

We’d have been mown down anyway, but the way we’ve folded is pathetic

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is completely on Arteta. This type of collapse always is. What is he doing? What on earth is he doing when not realising your players are this psychologically frail.

[Marc Overmars]

The really worrying thing is that we haven’t even looked like scoring in this half.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The really worrying thing is that we haven’t even looked like scoring in this half.

Because we are just trying to play it through a congested middle of the pitch

[HCZ_Reborn]

We haven’t lost at home to this lot in the league since 1987…fuck me

[Globalgunner]

The old Arsenal is back. Its like Wenger never left. Only difference is that old Weng would insist after the match that we were the better team. "Just Unlucky". I await Arteta`s interview.

[Marc Overmars]

This is very reminiscent of the dark days of those lockdown games with Arteta.

So bad.

[Marc Overmars]

Odegaard combs one in.

2-3

[McNamara That Ghost...]

ODEGAARD!!

[Marc Overmars]

SAKA!!!

3-3

[McNamara That Ghost...]

SAKA!!!!!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Eight added minutes!

[Marc Overmars]

Trossard hits the bar!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Trossard hits the bar!

[Marc Overmars]

Partey skies it FFS

Moron

[HCZ_Reborn]

3-3 FT

Another profound disappointment.

Happy St Totteringham’s day I guess

[Marc Overmars]

FT 3-3

Admirable fightback but we’re just waiting to be put out of our misery now.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

3-3 FT. Fucked it.

[Marc Overmars]

City against that defence are going to have a field day. I would be absolutely amazed if we weren’t hit for 3 or 4 at least.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Partey skies it FFS

Moron

That was absolutely ridiculous. I was fuming.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Do yous want to win the league ffs ?

It's not even bottling it. It's wtf?

And this isn't judging. This is stop City ffs

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Giving away two goals twice, recovering two goal deficits.

We're utter chaos. Fun to watch but most certainly not title winning material sadly.

[dostoy]

The only way to win the league now is to go to the emptyhand and win.

The chances of that are somewhere between zero and 1%.

I give them credit for coming back to 3-3 late on, but it was dreadful they were in that position in the first place.

It doesn't make much difference to me but I sympathise with the passionate Arsenal supporters on here.

Just remember, its only a game.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

To think some are of the opinion that subs can't make that much of a difference.

IMO its a crime that the sane set of players were given almost 270 mins unfettered to kill our title dreams

Should a positive player like Nelson not have had more time in the last 3 games?

Should Trossard have at least not started one game?

Well, its still in our hands if we beat Citeh methinks.....and like I said before we crave punishment and love to do things the hard way!!

I should be thankful though, at least I won my punt!

[Marc Overmars]

Do yous want to win the league ffs ?

It's not even bottling it. It's wtf?

And this isn't judging. This is stop City ffs

It ain’t happening. This lot are an absolute wreck.

[HCZ_Reborn]

it’s only a game.

But put up a real good fight

I’m going to be snookering you tonight

[Marc Overmars]

Has the phrase “still in our hands” ever felt more meaningless?

Is there a person alive who thinks Arsenal are going to take 3 points at the Etihad?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The old Arsenal is back. Its like Wenger never left. Only difference is that old Weng would insist after the match that we were the better team. "Just Unlucky". I await Arteta`s interview.

:haha: it really does feel a bit like deja vu...but TBH, nothing is as bad as the last days of AW.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Has the phrase “still in our hands” ever felt more meaningless?

Is there a person alive who thinks Arsenal are going to take 3 points at the Etihad?

Well maybe if Citeh went 7 goals ahead in the first 10 mins... we should then be able to nick it....no?

[dostoy]

Has the phrase “still in our hands” ever felt more meaningless?

Is there a person alive who thinks Arsenal are going to take 3 points at the Etihad?

Would you feel more confident if Arsenal were 2-0 up or 2-0 down at half time?

Its impossible for this team to win next Wednesday.

[Letters]

What is wrong with you lot?
Win at The Ethiad and it is ON!

:lol:

:ilt:

[HCZ_Reborn]

To think some are of the opinion that subs can't make that much of a difference.

IMO its a crime that the sane set of players were given almost 270 mins unfettered to kill our title dreams

Should a positive player like Nelson not have had more time in the last 3 games?

Should Trossard have at least not started one game?

Well, its still in our hands if we beat Citeh methinks.....and like I said before we crave punishment and love to do things the hard way!!

I should be thankful though, at least I won my punt!


Don’t want to get into silly rows with you again, but no one has said Subs can’t make much of an impact…they’ve observed that in the last few games they haven’t always tended to. Nelson of course got the shot away that was rebounded for Saka to bury, but the late rally came about by Odegaard just taking a punt

We both agreed that the starting lineup should have been different and that could have made a difference but it just feels like altitude sickness is setting in.

There’s been a lot of talk about how we’ve been too casual in games but I think it’s a confidence thing…they are trying to be nonchalant to hide the fact that they are shit scared. Maybe that could be alleviated by picking a different lineup but I just feel that this is psychological as much as it is tactical.

[Marc Overmars]

There’s been a lot of talk about how we’ve been too casual in games but I think it’s a confidence thing…they are trying to be nonchalant to hide the fact that they are shit scared. Maybe that could be alleviated by picking a different lineup but I just feel that this is psychological as much as it is tactical.

Agree with this. I think it’s painfully clear they’re shitting bricks.

That Ramsdale mistake set the tone for the whole game. Can’t fucking believe that, what an utter calamity.

There’s a reason why City aren’t involved in games like this and we so often are.

[Letters]

City are a level above us. They’re a level above everyone. And we all know how they’ve got there.
It’s disappointing to hand it to them like this though

[HCZ_Reborn]

:haha: it really does feel a bit like deja vu...but TBH, nothing is as bad as the last days of AW.

There does seem to be this deep seated nervousness within Arsenal that goes back many years

In one of my favourite films of recent years Grand Hotel Budapest - Ralph Fiennes’ character describes someone as “shaking like a shitting dog” and that whole 2-0 down, 3-2 up affair in the fa cup final was a case of nervousness…especially given we’d lost at Wembley in a final previously to Birmingham City and were taken to penalties by Wigan.

This feels to me like Shaking like a shitting Dog syndrome. Now this absolutely does not absolve Arteta….for me he should have recognised it after the Anfield game and looked to address it, but it seems like he’s a rabbit in the headlights…sticking with the same team because he’s afraid to change things up at this late stage

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This feels to me like Shaking like a shitting Dog syndrome. Now this absolutely does not absolve Arteta….for me he should have recognised it after the Anfield game and looked to address it, but it seems like he’s a rabbit in the headlights…sticking with the same team because he’s afraid to change things up at this late stage

This last post makes me think you are getting to the heart of the problem, at least what I think is the main cause of this collapse.

Everyone seems to be focused on the players shitting themselves or bottling it....but what if the person we should looking at ( and probably the most scared person in the room ) whose obvious mistakes are borne out of fear and affecting us the most is the coach?

I mean not realising when your team is 2-0 ahead (in a game no one thought you would win) that you need to keep the tempo up at all cost and not give back the initiative? ( note this is the same mistake the Southampton coach made today).

Not realising that there is something fundamentally wrong with your defence which you only fixed once a certain youngin from France was brought in this season straight into the starting lineup? Yes you tried to fix it with Holding but his dynamic is not working...why not try pushing White back or the new kid you bought for situations like this?

And Trossard your assist king, the guy who's been the January signing of a lifetime....is there not a way to ensure he's more involved instead of always coming in when we are chasing games?

Apparently after the West Ham game Arteta publicly said something like the players had lost their belief and were afraid and Xhaka (who whether anyone likes it or not is still the unofficial leader of this group) responded by saying he doesn't know what the hell the coach was on about....

Anyone or everyone can shit their pants, but when the leader of a group ( the manager) is doing the same thing but in denial... where the fuck do we go from there?

And like I keep saying, its not really his fault because he's obviously learning on the job.

Dixon just said the same thing in his analysis.

[HCZ_Reborn]

At the risk of being contrarian I think the Saliba absence is overplayed

You want someone better than Holding away at the biggest teams for sure

But we forget that we were pretty ropey defensively before Saliba got injured. Holding for sure has exacerbated that but if you believe football pundits you’d think Saliba was the reason we have dropped six points in the last three games.

I don’t

In fact I don’t believe there’s any one single reason.

It’s Saliba, it’s Arteta, it’s psychological fragility, it’s Partey being shit since he returned from Africa, it’s Saka not being dropped, it’s Xhaka, it’s Zinchenko, it’s Holding. It’s a mosaic of fecal matter

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

At the risk of being contrarian I think the Saliba absence is overplayed

You want someone better than Holding away at the biggest teams for sure

But we forget that we were pretty ropey defensively before Saliba got injured. Holding for sure has exacerbated that but if you believe football pundits you’d think Saliba was the reason we have dropped six points in the last three games.

I don’t

In fact I don’t believe there’s any one single reason.

It’s Saliba, it’s Arteta, it’s psychological fragility, it’s Partey being shit since he returned from Africa, it’s Saka not being dropped, it’s Xhaka, it’s Zinchenko, it’s Holding. It’s a mosaic of fecal matter

But then were we perfect without lapses when we were winning and getting all the points? Hell no.

IIRC the fact that we had poor games and were still able to win was what gave so many people confidence that this was our year.

In fact you can still argue that though we've blown the last 3 games, the fact that we haven't lost any should make it crystal clear that there is still something special about this team....


Oh well, on Wednesday a lot of things should be clearerr.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No of course we weren’t perfect but at the moment feels like perfect shit storm

Defence at its worst, missing decent chances….sloppiness in midfield

[Mac76]

To think some are of the opinion that subs can't make that much of a difference.

IMO its a crime that the sane set of players were given almost 270 mins unfettered to kill our title dreams

Should a positive player like Nelson not have had more time in the last 3 games?

Should Trossard have at least not started one game?

Well, its still in our hands if we beat Citeh methinks.....and like I said before we crave punishment and love to do things the hard way!!

I should be thankful though, at least I won my punt!

Well done on the bet :)

Agree completely about Nelson and Trossard, Arteta just won't give some players enough minutes or change anything unless he has to, every opposition manager knows who's going to play and how they're going to play

While it obviously wasn't pretty, yesterday was a good match to be at as a self-contained event given the comeback, though quite a few 'fans' had left the stadium at 3-1 :pal:

Citeh will duly thrash us and the narrative will unmistakenly be that we chucked in the towel, it would have been better if we'd been narrowly second all season and couldn't catch them but there you go

[KSE Comedy Club]

Has the phrase “still in our hands” ever felt more meaningless?

Is there a person alive who thinks Arsenal are going to take 3 points at the Etihad?

Yes, me!

[IBK]

This last post makes me think you are getting to the heart of the problem, at least what I think is the main cause of this collapse.

Everyone seems to be focused on the players shitting themselves or bottling it....but what if the person we should looking at ( and probably the most scared person in the room ) whose obvious mistakes are borne out of fear and affecting us the most is the coach?

I mean not realising when your team is 2-0 ahead (in a game no one thought you would win) that you need to keep the tempo up at all cost and not give back the initiative? ( note this is the same mistake the Southampton coach made today).

Not realising that there is something fundamentally wrong with your defence which you only fixed once a certain youngin from France was brought in this season straight into the starting lineup? Yes you tried to fix it with Holding but his dynamic is not working...why not try pushing White back or the new kid you bought for situations like this?

And Trossard your assist king, the guy who's been the January signing of a lifetime....is there not a way to ensure he's more involved instead of always coming in when we are chasing games?

Apparently after the West Ham game Arteta publicly said something like the players had lost their belief and were afraid and Xhaka (who whether anyone likes it or not is still the unofficial leader of this group) responded by saying he doesn't know what the hell the coach was on about....

Anyone or everyone can shit their pants, but when the leader of a group ( the manager) is doing the same thing but in denial... where the fuck do we go from there?

And like I keep saying, its not really his fault because he's obviously learning on the job.

Dixon just said the same thing in his analysis.

Some good posts here mate. While I was softer on Arteta for the Liverpool and West Ham away games, I am more critical of the manager for the Southampton game. The big difference here is that we came out of the blocks lacadaisical and lacking focus. That for me has to be down to match prep. Our loss of self control after we shat the bed may have been down to the players on the picth but IMO it is for the manager to calm the team down and remind it that there is most of the match to go and that they need to assert some control rather than trying to force the play. I think Arteta panicked as much as his players - and I don't think that the performance was because they were afraid, I think it was because Arteta was once we had gone 2 goals down (just like he was when Liverpool had got one goal back and were in the ascendancy at Anfield) - and I think that his team selection was based on thinking that we would blow Southampton away at home. The selection of Vieira in particular for me demonstrated that the manager thought the opposition wasn't good enough to exploit what seemed more like an experiment than a selection based on performance. What precisely was Vieira expected to offer in this match - based on what we have seen of him - particularly in an unfamiliar position?


I feel also that Arteta - like the team - started as though the focus was more on the Citeh game than the one in front of them.


As for team selection - I too am frustrated by the manager's perserverence with 'favourites'. Why isn't ESR trusted any more? Why did Viera start instead of Trossard? In the Southampton game I think that Jesus should have been hooked earlier, as should Zinchenko and Reiss Nelson in particular should have been given more time. The same mistake is being made with Eddie as it was last season - no playing time and then expected to work miracles from cold.


Inexperience is costing us at the hard end of the season and you are right to point our that the manager is showing this as much as his players.