Match reaction v Saints 3-3

[Chippy]

What the fuck was that?
0-2 after twenty minutes. Will we ever learn?
We have literally thrown away the league in less than two weeks.
No flowering this one up.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://media.tenor.com/kr2X02MchIwAAAAd/what-the-hell-was-that-smoking.gif

[HCZ_Reborn]

Player Ratings

Ramsdale 4
White 6
Holding 3
Gabriel 5
Zinchenko 2
Partey 5
Vieira 3
Odegaard 7
Martinelli 6
Saka 6
Jesus 5

Subs

Trossard 7
Nelson 7
Nketiah 3

[Marc Overmars]

Talented group but fragile mentality.

We’ll be put out of our misery once and for all on Wednesday.

[Chippy]

Talented group but fragile mentality.

We’ll be put out of our misery once and for all on Wednesday.

Thank fuck for that.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Think we'll take the lead at the Etihad and go down in agonising fashion.

[Chippy]

Think we'll take the lead at the Etihad and go down in agonising fashion.

Our defence stinks.
We gonna get tonked 5-1.

[Ralpheroo72]

Jesus H Christ

[mandela8]

Fuck sake.

[Letters]

Happy St Totteringham’s Day!

:partytime:


No?

:getcoat:

[Globalgunner]

Dont worry. Xhaka will recover and so will we. 1-2 to the Gunners

[HCZ_Reborn]

Happy St Totteringham’s Day!

:partytime:


No?

:getcoat:


I briefly mentioned this yesterday. At this point you take what you can get.

[Marc Overmars]

With Newcastle and Brighton to come, this probably isn’t going to the wire anymore either. Which is the saddest part.

What are the odds that Chelsea get a result at the Emirates now as well? They’re bloody awful but I don’t see where our next win is coming from.

[Letters]

It often feels like that during wobbles.
The next win isn’t coming at The Ethiad, clearly, but I suspect we will pick ourselves up at some point. It’ll probably be too little, too late.
We are 3 points off where The Invincibles we’re at this stage. It has overall been a terrific effort. And I think we all suspected City would mow us down in the end. Disappointing to gift wrap it for them though.

[Marc Overmars]

Even a draw on Wednesday now leaves us needing a favour.

Just so gutted we’ve undone all the hard work this season like this. So weak.

[Chippy]

Even a draw on Wednesday now leaves us needing a favour.

Just so gutted we’ve undone all the hard work this season like this. So weak.
The annoying thing is this has happened many times at this stage of the season. Why do we just fall away at the last stages? We need to strengthen our defence in the summer and shift Partey and Gabriel out. Both are liabilities.

[Letters]

I think there is a mentality and inexperience issue although I do think there’s a bit more about this lot, other seasons we wouldn’t have rescued a point last night.
And the squad depth was always going to be an issue. We needed a lot of luck with injuries, we almost got it but Saliba being out had clearly been a factor.

[Chippy]

I think there is a mentality and inexperience issue although I do think there’s a bit more about this lot, other seasons we wouldn’t have rescued a point last night.
And the squad depth was always going to be an issue. We needed a lot of luck with injuries, we almost got it but Saliba being out had clearly been a factor.
I agree. The Saliba injury came at a really bad time.
That is where FFP is failing with Man Shitty, they have two highly talented squads to call from.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Even a draw on Wednesday now leaves us needing a favour.

Just so gutted we’ve undone all the hard work this season like this. So weak.

It'd be four draws in a row and really can't expect the title with that but anything to stop the losing run against them.

As you say it'd be out of our hands but I'd be ok with that thinking it has probably gone now anyway.

[Marc Overmars]

I think title winners of the past have often come close before breaking through the glass ceiling. This experience should toughen them up a bit you hope for next year.

[Letters]

I think title winners of the past have often come close before breaking through the glass ceiling. This experience should toughen them up a bit you hope for next year.
Agreed. But, City aren’t going away. The only time they failed to win it over the last 5 - let’s face it, 6 - was when Liverpool went absolutely mental and all but won it by February. They won 26 out of their first 27 games, drawing the other. It was insane. That’s what it’s taken to get the better of City and as well as we’ve done this year I can’t see us doing what Liverpool did.

[Niall_Quinn]

What the fuck was that?
0-2 after twenty minutes. Will we ever learn?
We have literally thrown away the league in less than two weeks.
No flowering this one up.

The title was lost on 15th Feb. That initiated what will be a 12 point swing against city. You can't give a team like city that kind of advantage and hope to finish above them. Even a draw in that game would have made a huge difference. Then you go for a draw in the return leg and you've nullified your biggest rival and levelled the playing field. Then you have a shot.

City have a 30 goal man up top. Arsenal used to have that. City have a warrior directing the traffic in midfield, Arsenal used to have that. Now they have 9 goal Jesus (who never would have hit 30 even without the injury) and the ludicrous non-entity Partey. Kids like Saka and Martinelli are coming through and they'll develop into players that can win a title. But it's too early for them yet and they need proper support in key areas.

Give is 2 more seasons of improvement and experience and then a title is a possibility. For the first time in decades it's finally heading in the right direction.

[Letters]

Unusually, I pretty much agree with all of that.
That City game was a big red flag. You don’t lose at home to your rivals and win the title.
But our response to that was very good just when it looked like it might all fall apart.
You can’t argue with 7 wins in a row. Trouble is City just kept winning too because that’s what they do. The recent wobble has been very disappointing, we’ve handed the title to them on a plate.
But I think they’d have won it anyway. They were a machine anyway and then they got Haaland.
Struggling to see past them for the treble

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Man City have Brighton and Brentford away back to back.

They're the only ones I have any hope for really. :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Problem is we’ve had our “kind” fixtures now. The next few games are all ones that we earmarked as banana skins. With confidence in the gutter we’ll need something very special to pick ourselves up now.

Even if City drop points somewhere you can’t be sure that we’ll capitalise.

[Letters]

Didn’t that happen earlier in the season when we had The Wobble?.
We dropped silly points then beat Utd and Spurs which were harder fixtures.
I just hope we pick ourselves up and make City work for the title.

[Mac76]

Happy St Totteringham’s Day!

:partytime:


No?

:getcoat:

Hadn't occurred to me, no-one even mentioned that in the pub last night, in a way it's good, we've got bigger fish to fry than finishing above a team of perpetual losers

[Mac76]

We really needed to show our credentials yesterday but messed it all up early on

That said the title was gone when we drew with Liverpool and, importantly, the way we drew that hame - I was actually starting to believe during that first half but then it was gone when we let them back into it, we were always gping to lose at Citeh so at that point the advantage was theirs

As MO says we've got tough teams coming up and we're looking very shaky even if we did show some good spirit to fight back yesterday

This could all be rather ugly unless Arteta takes control of it and gives some players like Nelson and Trossard more of a chance, also Tierney

[HCZ_Reborn]

Hadn't occurred to me, no-one even mentioned that in the pub last night, in a way it's good, we've got bigger fish to fry than finishing above a team of perpetual losers

True still first time we’ve done so in 7 years.

But yeah can’t say I’m surprised no one in the pub mentioned it given we expected to win comfortably

[Mac76]

Player Ratings

Ramsdale 4
White 6
Holding 3
Gabriel 5
Zinchenko 2
Partey 5
Vieira 3
Odegaard 7
Martinelli 6
Saka 6
Jesus 5

Subs

Trossard 7
Nelson 7
Nketiah 3

ofc the joke is these aren't far off what you give them when we win 4-1 :lol:

I'm bored of Holding being a scapegoat, it's not him alone and tbh what you're really doing is punishing him for not being Saliba who is an exceptional talent

Also Vieira was a 5, he did contribute some good balls forward but IK he doesn't shore up the midfield like Xhaka does - tbh he feels like a luxery player and I'm not sure we can really accomodate him

Zin made at least one major fuck up nd was partly culpable for their third goal but elsewhere was useful - 4

Partey was a 3 not a 5 - dreadful and we need to play Jorginho next time and just tell him to stay in front of the defence

agree with the markings for the subs though, Nelson and Trossard threatened but Nketiah was completely anonymous and has basically reverted to type - we need to sell him in the summer and have Balogun as our backup striker

[HCZ_Reborn]

The performance wasn’t much better against Leeds, the difference was Southampton were able to score with the chances they created.

Holding isn’t being punished for not being Saliba he’s being punished for being slow and ponderous as I said before…the defending was often not brilliant when Saliba was playing. Even before Saliba got the back injury we’d conceded 16 goals at home in 13 games.

Playing Jorginho against City would for me only work if he played alongside Partey

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Playing Jorginho against City would for me only work if he played alongside Partey
In a previous thread I had suggested we use Friday for the dress rehearsal against Citeh..and .if indeed Arteta's plan is to try Viera one more time with Partey, then we might as well not even show up and just give them the damn 3 points!!

Jorginho with Partey should have been attempted already , though you could say with Zinchenko back in the team you might be overcrowding the middle just a bit too much....but cone to think of it is that a bad thing for a team that keeps conceding +2 goals in every game??

The other option if he really wanted to go gung ho (and face it we have nothing to lose anyway) is to start Trossard their...then Jesus and him could interchange a bit and he (Jesus) could fall as deep as he like.

Itsan extreme shame we could not make a better use of playing the bottom team in the league but honestly we've been borderline suicidal these past few weeks and it seems thats the way we want to keep it!

[IBK]

My thoughts...

For me Friday's game showed that there are no 'gimmes' in the EPL. The standard generally is very high and if you are off your game by even 5% than you'll get hurt. Even the mighty Citeh drew at Forest and these games can happen. We were off by more than that against Southampton. Stupid risk taking led to their first; sloppiness in MF for their second.

Funnily enough I'm more sanguine about Friday's result than I was with that at Anfield and at West Ham. Southampton are a bogey team for us. Arenal have 'always' in recent times been a team that beat themselves with stupid mistakes, but to lose our composure when we were in total control at those 2 away games was very difficult to stomach.

And lack of control/composure is the issue with our team lately, IMO. It's not a lack of self belief per se - we still have this. Instead it is losing our heads. Friday was anarchic - as we were so desperate to make amends for going 0-2 down. It's ironic that Arteta's team has transformed from an over-structured set up that frustrated with a lack of lateral movement to one that is too gung ho and aggressive - creating far to many turnovers and attacking opprtunities for the other side. We need to understand when to push high, and remember that probing for an opportunity but keeping the ball - and waiting for an error from the other side lets us control the tempo of a game and puts our defence under less pressure. We need to trust in the quality of our MF and attack to take opportunities when they present themselves - not try to force the issue.

We looked immature and jittery on Friday - as we did for large periods of the preceding 2 games. It's too easy to blame injuries for this. More a mindset - that has disintegrated a bit with pressure.

And while I have not tended to point the finger at the Manager recently, he made some obvious mistakes against Southampton. I don't understand what Vieira has shown to merit a start ahead of Trossard, and if there were any instructions to manage the game state properly then these were not in evidence. A slow patient start was required - to allow our team's superior quality to assert itself. Instead we saw a team looking to score goals from the off - and this set the tone for a chaotic display.

Its difficult to see where the magical turnaround is going to come from with this team ATM. Its seems a bit strange referring to a turnaround when we have not lost the past 3 games - but I mean a turnaround in self control. I agree that our only hope is to be positive against Citeh on Wednesday, but any less than 100% focus will only mean one thing...

[HCZ_Reborn]

The result on Friday was the most unexpected of the three draws simply because this is a side that has given up the ghost on premier league survival. I wasn’t as angry about it as the West Ham game because I believed the league was done with as a result of not beating West Ham. We had for me a narrow path to the title that allowed us to drop points in two maybe three fixtures and this was not the fixture we could afford not to win.
I don’t often agree with NQ but I think there is an argument to be made that on a psychological level anyway losing to City at the Emirates made the title a big ask….not just because of the result but the performance in the second half where it didn’t feel like we believed we could get anything from the game.

Fridays game was interesting because it felt like even getting a draw came out of out of a nothing to lose hit and hope mentality. Odegaard went for a shot that I don’t believe he would have tried were we drawing the game and it came off.

This approach won’t work against City and for the life of me I don’t see what will. If we go for it they will pick us off like they did with Liverpool. If we play like Newcastle they will wear us down.

A couple of the missed chances at the Emirates against City suggests to me we lack the belief that we can beat them. Even in the 1 in 100 chance of getting a win there wouldn’t make us favourites for the title and we would be sweating on the fitness of Saliba for Newcastle and given he’s already been ruled out for a game in 8 days time (against Chelsea) suggests he won’t be ready for that game

[HCZ_Reborn]

Team I would play against City

Ramsdale, Tierney, Gabriel, Kiwior, White, Jorginho, Partey, Odegaard, Martinelli, Jesus, Trossard

[Mac76]

Team I would play against City

Ramsdale, Tierney, Gabriel, Kiwior, White, Jorginho, Partey, Odegaard, Martinelli, Jesus, Trossard

Generally ok though despite Holding's failings it's a big risk bringing Kiwior in

I'd leave out Partey (or maybe play him at CB instead of Holding) and play Saka, with Trossard in the No. 8 role

[HCZ_Reborn]

Generally ok though despite Holding's failings it's a big risk bringing Kiwior in

I'd leave out Partey (or maybe play him at CB instead of Holding) and play Saka, with Trossard in the No. 8 role

It is a big risk but there’s no avoiding big risk.

Playing Jorginho on his own in midfield would be suicidal, he’s just far too slow to cope and we’d find ourselves penned in like we did in the second half against City

Whilst I think we need personnel changes, we should no go Galaxy brained (like Partey at centre back or Trossard in No 8 role…not to say neither couldn’t work but these would be the kind of go for contingency when playing against relegation fodder at home because whilst Kiwior is a risk that’s whole other level because at least you’re playing him in position)

Holding is a no no not just because of his defensive vulnerability but because he cannot play his way out of trouble (neither can Gabriel) that’s been half the problem with him…it’s become harder to make defensive to attacking transitions

[Marc Overmars]

If we were to make any radical changes, I would suggest Zinchenko at RB and White in as a CB again.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Team I would play against City

Ramsdale, Tierney, Gabriel, Kiwior, White, Jorginho, Partey, Odegaard, Martinelli, Jesus, Trossard

Agree with you re: Kiwior.

We bought him as back up and then dust Holding off (who isn't good enough) to cover every game.
He is a liability and Gabriel clearly doesn't have enough confidence in him.

Also, whilst I think Jorg should have started alongside Partey (over Vieira) on Friday, I think if Xhaka is fit then he should be in there as normal.

[KSE Comedy Club]

In a previous thread I had suggested we use Friday for the dress rehearsal against Citeh..and .if indeed Arteta's plan is to try Viera one more time with Partey, then we might as well not even show up and just give them the damn 3 points!!

Jorginho with Partey should have been attempted already , though you could say with Zinchenko back in the team you might be overcrowding the middle just a bit too much....but cone to think of it is that a bad thing for a team that keeps conceding +2 goals in every game??

The other option if he really wanted to go gung ho (and face it we have nothing to lose anyway) is to start Trossard their...then Jesus and him could interchange a bit and he (Jesus) could fall as deep as he like.

Itsan extreme shame we could not make a better use of playing the bottom team in the league but honestly we've been borderline suicidal these past few weeks and it seems thats the way we want to keep it!

Absolutely it should.

Unfortunately that is one of Arteta's limitations and where he fails.

He only seems to see players as like for like and 90% of his subs have been so in games. He reacts too late and not always with what is needed.

[Mac76]

Absolutely it should.

Unfortunately that is one of Arteta's limitations and where he fails.

He only seems to see players as like for like and 90% of his subs have been so in games. He reacts too late and not always with what is needed.

yes, absolutely it's one of his biggest flaws - £8.5m a year and he can't master changeing tactics or formation mid-game it seems, unless it's to take off a MF and create a back three

[HCZ_Reborn]

Funnily enough just been discussing this with my mate

We basically agree that Arteta is scared to change the system despite not having the players available to make the system we are playing tenable

I had to literally screen shot the subs from Friday’s game with Southampton…he simply couldn’t process why we’d start Vieira when Jorginho was available

I explained the only possible explanation for it is because Arteta won’t change the system therefore has to have a number 8 in there (and the “need” for an inverted left back meant that he didn’t play Zinchenko as a no 8)

I understand to a degree the hesitancy to change the system this late on in this system but it’s no working…something needs to change. And in my mind we should have a back up system to factor for injuries to begin with.

[IBK]

Funnily enough just been discussing this with my mate

We basically agree that Arteta is scared to change the system despite not having the players available to make the system we are playing tenable

I had to literally screen shot the subs from Friday’s game with Southampton…he simply couldn’t process why we’d start Vieira when Jorginho was available

I explained the only possible explanation for it is because Arteta won’t change the system therefore has to have a number 8 in there (and the “need” for an inverted left back meant that he didn’t play Zinchenko as a no 8)

I understand to a degree the hesitancy to change the system this late on in this system but it’s no working…something needs to change. And in my mind we should have a back up system to factor for injuries to begin with.

Agree with all that :gp:

[mandela8]

I'd leave out Partey.

Fuck me, man...against Man City :haha: :haha: :haha:

On a board full of some of the most ignorant football minds, this has to be the fuckin stupidest post I've ever seen. Jesus fuckin Christ :haha: :haha: :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fuck me, man...against Man City :haha: :haha: :haha:

On a board full of some of the most ignorant football minds, this has to be the fuckin stupidest post I've ever seen. Jesus fuckin Christ :haha: :haha: :haha:


I wouldn’t leave out Partey either but I’m guessing there’s no mirrors in the squalid tenement you call a home for you to get any sense of reflection


He has been shite since he came back from international duty. I don’t know if he’s carrying an injury or whether he’s worried about the prospect of prison time in Accra. But the Partey we’ve seen in the last few games is the Partey that was stinking out the place in the Autumn of 2021 (and he even admitted himself that he was dreadful back then)

Honestly out of all the people that have added their thoughts to this thread, yours are by far the worst….and no surprise either.

Partey is no doubt a top player but the fact that he’s so crucial to us is more indicative of the absolute turd that we’ve got in central midfield…and frankly if we sign that Caicedo from Brighton I expect to be getting a player who in a short space of time could be a step up from Partey

[Marc Overmars]

Partey has been poor lately but he’s still the first name on the team sheet for me.

I think he’s having to drop very deep to collect the ball at the moment and that means he’s getting caught in dangerous areas a lot. Our transition play has gone to shit and he’s an essential cog in that wheel working effectively. Hopefully he turns up against City.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Partey has been poor lately but he’s still the first name on the team sheet for me.

I think he’s having to drop very deep to collect the ball at the moment and that means he’s getting caught in dangerous areas a lot. Our transition play has gone to shit and he’s an essential cog in that wheel working effectively. Hopefully he turns up against City.


There we are a slightly more reasonable view

I think it’s a combination of him being poor…sloppy on the ball…and not enjoying the protection he had with someone who was comfortable on the ball enough to play out from the ball at centre back. Either in Saliba or Ben White the previous season

[mandela8]

Partey has been poor lately but he’s still the first name on the team sheet for me.

I think he’s having to drop very deep to collect the ball at the moment and that means he’s getting caught in dangerous areas a lot. Our transition play has gone to shit and he’s an essential cog in that wheel working effectively. Hopefully he turns up against City.

Exactly.

He's very clearly had to adapt to a different style in which he's recieving the ball in midfield where he can turn and progress, which is what he's so brilliant at. Just now he's having to drop right back and try to play out from there.
He made a couple of unrelated mistakes but who gies a fuck?

It's the simplicity of 'analysis' that gets me :haha:

[mandela8]

Partey is the best player in the team.

That's not even remotely debatable. It's not an opinion. It's an observable fact.

If you don't think he is then you're a spastic.

It's as simple as that.

[Mac76]

Exactly.

He's very clearly had to adapt to a different style in which he's recieving the ball in midfield where he can turn and progress, which is what he's so brilliant at. Just now he's having to drop right back and try to play out from there.
He made a couple of unrelated mistakes but who gies a fuck?

It's the simplicity of 'analysis' that gets me :haha:

I'd stand by the concept of dropping someone if they are playing very poorly, no matter what they're like when they're good, albeit it there aren't many other options

Anyway it doesn't make any difference, talking about who to play on Weds is just moving deckchairs around on the Titanic

[HCZ_Reborn]

Partey is the best player in the team.

That's not even remotely debatable. It's not an opinion. It's an observable fact.

If you don't think he is then you're a spastic.

It's as simple as that.


The only observable fact is that you’re a danger to children

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Partey has been poor lately but he’s still the first name on the team sheet for me.

I think he’s having to drop very deep to collect the ball at the moment and that means he’s getting caught in dangerous areas a lot. Our transition play has gone to shit and he’s an essential cog in that wheel working effectively. Hopefully he turns up against City.

What he said.

But on a serious note, we really need to get to a safe place where everyone is droppable...no one should be allowed to get away with shit displays week in and out.

Anyway Partey should play...and hopefully stay the full 90mins to ensure the "voodoo" of him not losing a game he starts and finishes (at least in the EPL this season) holds.

[HCZ_Reborn]

What he said.

But on a serious note, we really need to get to a safe place where everyone is droppable...no one should be allowed to get away with shit displays week in and out.

Anyway Partey should play...and hopefully stay the full 90mins to ensure the "voodoo" of him not losing a game he starts and finishes (at least in the EPL this season) holds.

The reason Partey is undroppable is because Central midfield is the one area where we have no depth. Elneny? Why the fuck did we give him a new contract. We need proper players not mascots.

We need an improvement on Xhaka in the No 8 role and we need someone who is just as good if not better than Partey in the no 6 role (and genuinely think Caicedo is that player)

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't get the Xhaka hate. I really don't.

Is he the best to ever play the role? Nope. But at least he's male. Same can't be said for most of the rest.

[Niall_Quinn]

Exactly.

He's very clearly had to adapt to a different style in which he's recieving the ball in midfield where he can turn and progress, which is what he's so brilliant at. Just now he's having to drop right back and try to play out from there.
He made a couple of unrelated mistakes but who gies a fuck?

It's the simplicity of 'analysis' that gets me :haha:

You've got to be trolling?

Partey? Turn and progress?

You must think people are blind.

The one thing you can absolutely guarantee is that Partey will get the ball and find some way, even if it's close on impossible, to SLOOOOOOOOWLY pass it backwards. And even then he often manages to find the opposition.

Absolute shitkicker of a non-player and one of the primary reasons the title is heading north.

[Niall_Quinn]

Funnily enough just been discussing this with my mate

We basically agree that Arteta is scared to change the system despite not having the players available to make the system we are playing tenable

I had to literally screen shot the subs from Friday’s game with Southampton…he simply couldn’t process why we’d start Vieira when Jorginho was available

I explained the only possible explanation for it is because Arteta won’t change the system therefore has to have a number 8 in there (and the “need” for an inverted left back meant that he didn’t play Zinchenko as a no 8)

I understand to a degree the hesitancy to change the system this late on in this system but it’s no working…something needs to change. And in my mind we should have a back up system to factor for injuries to begin with.

This is a shit league filled with shit teams. Apart from City. City are a proper team based on the modern day principles of football, those being 90% the chequebook and 10% the culture. Even so, Arsenal won enough games to give them a brief (very brief I would estimate) pause for thought. Maybe the gypos feared a new Leicester was in the offing, at points where Arsenal won, won and won again.

But they also would have noticed Arsenal collapsing in little clusters around, you didn't guess it, fixtures with City. Arsenal overcame the chequebook, which is worthy of praise. But Wenger's culture is harder to fix. TOP FOUR TROPHY. That's the real "system" that has caused a decade of grief. You can't be a winner when your dream is to be a loser.

Basically what the fans are moaning about now is Arteta has managed to turn a bunch of habitual losers from a TOP FOUR TROPHY outfit (couldn't even manage that) into champions finishing above the finished article. Not yet anyway.

The fact they even competed (sort of) means we can ignore the fans who think they could do a better job of solving the almost impossible challenge laid down by Wenger. It's tempered because this is a shit league filled with shit teams. But none were a bigger pile than Arsenal last season. This season things are a little different. For the first time since Wenger burned it all down.

I wonder. Which other manager could have possibly provoked such a profound improvement? Pep? Maybe. Klopp? Don't think so. Any of the revolving door managers at Utd?

Doesn't seem like being "scared" has taken this team from nowhere to somewhere. Let's face it, he hasn't had a lot to play with. But he's kept the loyal (until a couple of weeks ago) fans interested for a lot longer than usual.

[Niall_Quinn]

I wouldn’t leave out Partey either but I’m guessing there’s no mirrors in the squalid tenement you call a home for you to get any sense of reflection


He has been shite since he came back from international duty. I don’t know if he’s carrying an injury or whether he’s worried about the prospect of prison time in Accra. But the Partey we’ve seen in the last few games is the Partey that was stinking out the place in the Autumn of 2021 (and he even admitted himself that he was dreadful back then)

Honestly out of all the people that have added their thoughts to this thread, yours are by far the worst….and no surprise either.

Partey is no doubt a top player but the fact that he’s so crucial to us is more indicative of the absolute turd that we’ve got in central midfield…and frankly if we sign that Caicedo from Brighton I expect to be getting a player who in a short space of time could be a step up from Partey

Check the bit in bold. And reflect on it. OR, explain to me why Partey is "no doubt a top player". That's every bit as ridiculous as anything Mandela is claiming.

And at least Mandela had the grace to call out the ludicrous bullshit that has been going on here up until the last few games. You all wanked over the Bournemouth farce, didn't you?

[IBK]

This is a shit league filled with shit teams. Apart from City. City are a proper team based on the modern day principles of football, those being 90% the chequebook and 10% the culture. Even so, Arsenal won enough games to give them a brief (very brief I would estimate) pause for thought. Maybe the gypos feared a new Leicester was in the offing, at points where Arsenal won, won and won again.

But they also would have noticed Arsenal collapsing in little clusters around, you didn't guess it, fixtures with City. Arsenal overcame the chequebook, which is worthy of praise. But Wenger's culture is harder to fix. TOP FOUR TROPHY. That's the real "system" that has caused a decade of grief. You can't be a winner when your dream is to be a loser.

Basically what the fans are moaning about now is Arteta has managed to turn a bunch of habitual losers from a TOP FOUR TROPHY outfit (couldn't even manage that) into champions finishing above the finished article. Not yet anyway.

The fact they even competed (sort of) means we can ignore the fans who think they could do a better job of solving the almost impossible challenge laid down by Wenger. It's tempered because this is a shit league filled with shit teams. But none were a bigger pile than Arsenal last season. This season things are a little different. For the first time since Wenger burned it all down.

I wonder. Which other manager could have possibly provoked such a profound improvement? Pep? Maybe. Klopp? Don't think so. Any of the revolving door managers at Utd?

Doesn't seem like being "scared" has taken this team from nowhere to somewhere. Let's face it, he hasn't had a lot to play with. But he's kept the loyal (until a couple of weeks ago) fans interested for a lot longer than usual.

You've made some good posts on this thread mate. Some perspective is needed regarding where we are currently. I am not excusing 3 avoidable and extremely disappointing recent results but some fans who think that Arteta should not stay on at the club have unrealistic expectations about where we should be in his project. We are ahead of schedule and we need to see whether we kick on from here.

[IBK]

I don't get the Xhaka hate. I really don't.

Is he the best to ever play the role? Nope. But at least he's male. Same can't be said for most of the rest.

In fact we saw clearly on Friday what we miss when Xhaka is out.

[IBK]

Absolutely it should.

Unfortunately that is one of Arteta's limitations and where he fails.

He only seems to see players as like for like and 90% of his subs have been so in games. He reacts too late and not always with what is needed.

Bang on. Arteta has slipped up partly because he has stuck with a system that requires our first team choices to make it work, and treats replacements as like for like when they are either inferior or have different strenghts and in particular weaknesses. He needs to alter his system to protect and adapt to 2nd choice players, not expose them by expecting them to deliever what injured or out of form first teamers can.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Check the bit in bold. And reflect on it. OR, explain to me why Partey is "no doubt a top player". That's every bit as ridiculous as anything Mandela is claiming.

And at least Mandela had the grace to call out the ludicrous bullshit that has been going on here up until the last few games. You all wanked over the Bournemouth farce, didn't you?

Other people may have done but I was a mixture of relieved and angry that put ourselves in the position to begin with

It’s all relative at the end of the day, when you’re judging a player you can only judge them against the quality of players in the game presently. And in that regard yes Partey is a top player

Also in respect of your other post, it feels a bit contradictory. You blame the club for its mentality by citing the whole Top 4 Trophy thing but then start by conceding that in a shit league city win by 90% chequebook.

You can argue that to explicitly state Top 4 is a trophy breeds a mentality that doesn’t even try to win. But ultimately the 90% chequebook will always override the 10% mentality/culture in the long term.

This idea that we’ve not achieved because the fans weren’t ambitious enough and didn’t demand it more…Is lovely and everything. But believing I should be a Doctor won’t bridge the intellectual gap to make it happen

[IBK]

Other people may have done but I was a mixture of relieved and angry that put ourselves in the position to begin with

It’s all relative at the end of the day, when you’re judging a player you can only judge them against the quality of players in the game presently. And in that regard yes Partey is a top player

Also in respect of your other post, it feels a bit contradictory. You blame the club for its mentality by citing the whole Top 4 Trophy thing but then start by conceding that in a shit league city win by 90% chequebook.

You can argue that to explicitly state Top 4 is a trophy breeds a mentality that doesn’t even try to win. But ultimately the 90% chequebook will always override the 10% mentality/culture in the long term.

This idea that we’ve not achieved because the fans weren’t ambitious enough and didn’t demand it more…Is lovely and everything. But believing I should be a Doctor won’t bridge the intellectual gap to make it happen

In fairness, I don't think NQ was saying that the club currently accepts that top four is a trophy, but arguing that this was the case during the late Wenger years, and created a mentality that has taken a lot to shift...

I read his post as supportive of what Arteta has achieved, and as calling out fans who think that he should have made the leap from a team outside the European places to league winners by now.

[HCZ_Reborn]

In fairness, I don't think NQ was saying that the club currently accepts that top four is a trophy, but arguing that this was the case during the late Wenger years, and created a mentality that has taken a lot to shift...

I read his post as supportive of what Arteta has achieved, and as calling out fans who think that he should have made the leap from a team outside the European places to league winners by now.

I got what he was saying my argument is more aimed at this demonisation of Wenger as being the spokesman for the clubs lack of ambition. Whether he should have explicitly stated that top 4 was a trophy, it’s abundantly clear there’s a difference in what the club was able to spend then and now.

And when he accepts that Man City’s victories are 90% chequebook based, it seems no less so for Chelsea and United at a time where finishing in the top four and finishing above spurs appeared to be the zenith of our ambition. Wenger could have walked away earlier of course but he stated that he didn’t like being the coach when we were at the Emirates because he felt he did not have the chance to make the kind of title challenging sides that he’d made in the past. But equally it was those consistent top four finishes that put us in reasonable good stead for someone like Arteta to build a title winning side now.

Granted Arteta does deserve credit for the big leap he’s made from last year to this year, but he equally deserves scrutiny for his failure to adapt under the heat of City creeping up on us, which they were always going to do.