Manchester City v Arsenal, 20:00 BST (26/04, BT Sport)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

:lol:

We've lost god knows how many games in a row to Man City, they haven't lost on a Wednesday in the league in god knows how long.

:rose:

[Marc Overmars]

Could possibly be our greatest ever PL result if we won.

I don’t think there is a human being alive who can make a compelling case for us taking 3 points though.

Personally I’m expecting a very heavy loss but meh, you got to live in hope I guess.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Hope they send an emergency alert out if we are winning this one going in to injury time.

[Mac76]

6-0 Haaland double hatter

[HCZ_Reborn]

Had we got the extra four points we should have got against West Ham and Southampton I’d be extremely nervous about this game. I was shitting a brick before the Liverpool game. But not nervous at all now, the expectations are minimal…if we lose and I think we will then the title although not mathematically over will be over (we would require City to lose one and draw one of their remaining fixtures whilst we would not be able to drop any more points)

I am half expecting a similar calamity to last season. But that said if Brentford can win at the Etihad so can we. To my mind the greatest Arsenal win in our premier league history was winning the title at Old Trafford (although more because of the symbolism…the game itself was actually a reasonably easy win they never looked like coming back into it when we went 1-0 up)
We can’t compare it to 26th May 1989 either because that was the last game of the season. We have five more to play after this.
I don’t think we will get hammered because no matter how poor we’ve been the last fortnight we haven’t lost a game. We’ve lost six games in all competition all season (City have lost that many albeit having played more games overall).

I’m going for 3-1 City

[Letters]

Agreed on all points.
I’m taking the “look up the result afterwards and tut” approach.
I play football on Wednesdays and a couple of weeks ago I was going to skip this week and watch, but not after the last few results. I will regret it if we win, but…we won’t.

[Mac76]

Agreed on all points.
I’m taking the “look up the result afterwards and tut” approach.
I play football on Wednesdays and a couple of weeks ago I was going to skip this week and watch, but not after the last few results. I will regret it if we win, but…we won’t.

Yeah i was thinking of watching in the pub in case it turned out to be a legendary win, but will probably just watch at home as the irony is even if we did win, City would probably win the PL anyway

[HCZ_Reborn]

Saliba out of Man City and Chelsea games

It’s just as well we’ve done enough to secure 2nd or end of the season could get really messy

Arteta is to be blamed for playing Saliba in nothing fixture in Europa league


Holding cannot, must not play Wednesday. If he does I really have to question Arteta’s continuation as coach

[Marc Overmars]

We could get battered with or without Holding in there, this is all pretty academic to me now. Holding is obviously not good enough but I don’t think he’s even been that bad across the last 3 games. I think these are games we could have dropped points in even with Saliba there, simply because they’ve succumbed to the pressure.

This game is about putting up a fight and going out on our shield.

Hopefully with the CL next season, we make some smart signings that can slot in and not have the technical level of the team suffer.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We could get battered with or without Holding in there, this is all pretty academic to me now. Holding is obviously not good enough but I don’t think he’s even been that bad across the last 3 games. I think these are games we could have dropped points in even with Saliba there, simply because they’ve succumbed to the pressure.

This game is about putting up a fight and going out on our shield.

Hopefully with the CL next season, we make some smart signings that can slot in and not have the technical level of the team suffer.

Disagree, with Saliba in there we had a good chance of affecting a shut out

We kept 9 clean sheets away from home with Saliba at centre back and conceded four in the last two without him

I don’t enjoy targeting Holding, I do think he tries his best and the penalty against Liverpool aside (which was a marginal call) he hasn’t made glaring individual errors. But if I award him 3 or 4 in player ratings it’s because that’s his level. It’s not his fault, he simply lacks the pace, awareness or technical ability to not be a liability to us.

We had a chance to get rid of him to Newcastle a year or two back but chose not to because he’s considered a likeable squad member. Well I’m sorry but if you want a mascot buy a puppy, we shouldn’t have passengers in the team. And it comes back to Arteta lacking the strength to handle big personalities.

[Marc Overmars]

I think it’s more about the fact we have a finite amount of resources and needed to overhaul the squad in order of priority first. Holding is one of the lowest earners, happy to sit on the bench and ticks the homegrown quota box. It’s easy to see why he was kept.

It’s unfortunate that we’ve had to call on him at the most crucial stage of the season but shit happens. I can’t remember a time where we didn’t suffer key injuries during a run-in that would eventually cost us. Last year it was Tierney and Tomi that were out and we had to play Cedric and Tavares who were absolutely shit.

Where we dropped the ball was not having the foresight to buy a CB last summer when it was decided that White would be moved to RB.

I’m sure Arteta’s aim is to have a squad where the technical level doesn’t drop when a cog or two is missing. With the CL to offer I suspect that those gaps will be plugged this summer. This is the difference with City who seemingly can chop and change without needing to worry about a drop in quality because they all play the same way.

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4N3gbZAxr8

[IBK]

Had we got the extra four points we should have got against West Ham and Southampton I’d be extremely nervous about this game. I was shitting a brick before the Liverpool game. But not nervous at all now, the expectations are minimal…if we lose and I think we will then the title although not mathematically over will be over (we would require City to lose one and draw one of their remaining fixtures whilst we would not be able to drop any more points)

I am half expecting a similar calamity to last season. But that said if Brentford can win at the Etihad so can we. To my mind the greatest Arsenal win in our premier league history was winning the title at Old Trafford (although more because of the symbolism…the game itself was actually a reasonably easy win they never looked like coming back into it when we went 1-0 up)
We can’t compare it to 26th May 1989 either because that was the last game of the season. We have five more to play after this.
I don’t think we will get hammered because no matter how poor we’ve been the last fortnight we haven’t lost a game. We’ve lost six games in all competition all season (City have lost that many albeit having played more games overall).

I’m going for 3-1 City

I'd go with your score prediction.

Disagree that Saliba's absence was Arteta's fault for playing him in the EL game though. That's captain hindsight. Given the time he was out during and after the WC he was actually one of our 'fresher' players and throwing the EL is something that I think would have sent the wrong message out. It didn't work well in the end but the injuries that we sustained were pure bad luck.

I've thought for a couple of weeks that trying to rush Saliba back for the Etihad was a mistake - even if he had been in training a couple of weeks ago the player hasn't been great in his first couple of games after a period out and I never expected him to make it. Saiba is one player - and our problems in recent weeks have been as much a collective loss of team composure as much as anything else.

I'm with you that the league has gone. The priority on Wednesday is to avoid a morale-sapping drubbing. We need to avoid a hangover that lasts into what will be an even more challenging season next time in order to kick on from this one.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think it’s more about the fact we have a finite amount of resources and needed to overhaul the squad in order of priority first. Holding is one of the lowest earners, happy to sit on the bench and ticks the homegrown quota box. It’s easy to see why he was kept.

It’s unfortunate that we’ve had to call on him at the most crucial stage of the season but shit happens. I can’t remember a time where we didn’t suffer key injuries during a run-in that would eventually cost us. Last year it was Tierney and Tomi that were out and we had to play Cedric and Tavares who were absolutely shit.

Where we dropped the ball was not having the foresight to buy a CB last summer when it was decided that White would be moved to RB.

I’m sure Arteta’s aim is to have a squad where the technical level doesn’t drop when a cog or two is missing. With the CL to offer I suspect that those gaps will be plugged this summer. This is the difference with City who seemingly can chop and change without needing to worry about a drop in quality because they all play the same way.

We signed a centre back in January and spent almost twenty million on doing so. This is a player who is 23 and has played top flight football and international football…we bought this player as a back up to Gabriel because they are left footed so either presumably they are lacking the requisite experience, is not rated by Arteta despite the money spent on him or is for some reason reticent on playing two players who are left footed.

We’ve spent near on 200 million on defenders since 2019, the lack of a better understudy than Holding is not due to limited resources

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'd go with your score prediction.

Disagree that Saliba's absence was Arteta's fault for playing him in the EL game though. That's captain hindsight. Given the time he was out during and after the WC he was actually one of our 'fresher' players and throwing the EL is something that I think would have sent the wrong message out. It didn't work well in the end but the injuries that we sustained were pure bad luck.

I've thought for a couple of weeks that trying to rush Saliba back for the Etihad was a mistake - even if he had been in training a couple of weeks ago the player hasn't been great in his first couple of games after a period out and I never expected him to make it. Saiba is one player - and our problems in recent weeks have been as much a collective loss of team composure as much as anything else.

I'm with you that the league has gone. The priority on Wednesday is to avoid a morale-sapping drubbing. We need to avoid a hangover that lasts into what will be an even more challenging season next time in order to kick on from this one.


Respectfully disagree, I think playing Saliba in the Europa league was an unnecessary risk and I said at the time that I was not happy with first team players featuring in the Europa league so I’m not just being wise with hindsight.

I also respectfully disagree that we should not have done everything possible to play Saliba even if it meant getting him through this period with painkilling injections. At 21, a back injury is unlikely to be career ending…and if he broke down we’d be no worse off than we are now.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I've decided to start thinking that we have no chance and will loose tomorrow.

That way if we get any other result I will be over the moon! :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Man Utd tactics should be used. Go for the draw and play a couple of hackjobs with the specific purpose of injuring Haaland and De Brownstuff. Worked very well for Utd over many seasons. As a bonus, bribe the ref, but that might be a hard get at the gypo camp.

[Mac76]

Respectfully disagree, I think playing Saliba in the Europa league was an unnecessary risk and I said at the time that I was not happy with first team players featuring in the Europa league so I’m not just being wise with hindsight.

I also respectfully disagree that we should not have done everything possible to play Saliba even if it meant getting him through this period with painkilling injections. At 21, a back injury is unlikely to be career ending…and if he broke down we’d be no worse off than we are now.

Agree 100% with the first para but not the second, any player needs to be given the time they need to recover, we rushed Partey back a season or two ago and ended up losing him for longer

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Yeah i was thinking of watching in the pub in case it turned out to be a legendary win, but will probably just watch at home as the irony is even if we did win, City would probably win the PL anyway

I feel like this too....lets see though.

[Marc Overmars]

The only chance we’ve got is if Jesus, Saka and Martinelli have the game of their lives. I think we all accept that we’re going to concede goals here so the only way to combat that is with some goals of our own. We’ve got to make it difficult for them, otherwise they will just suffocate us again like they did in the second half at the Emirates when we just froze and stopped playing.

[Letters]

I was hoping to play football tonight to avoid this but it’s looking like we aren’t going to get the numbers and I’m going to sit through it. :(

[Mac76]

I was hoping to play football tonight to avoid this but it’s looking like we aren’t going to get the numbers and I’m going to sit through it. :(

There's no way out, you have to suffer with the rest of us

:pal:

[KSE Comedy Club]

I was hoping to play football tonight to avoid this but it’s looking like we aren’t going to get the numbers and I’m going to sit through it. :(

You're not that special Letters, we ain't doing this alone!

[KSE Comedy Club]

The only chance we’ve got is if Jesus, Saka and Martinelli have the game of their lives. I think we all accept that we’re going to concede goals here so the only way to combat that is with some goals of our own. We’ve got to make it difficult for them, otherwise they will just suffocate us again like they did in the second half at the Emirates when we just froze and stopped playing.

To be honest I would like to see Trossard in the mix too, he certainly would make City sweat.

[Letters]

You're not that special Letters, we ain't doing this alone!
:lol:

Fair enough. We’ll all suffer this together

[HCZ_Reborn]

If we win tonight, I will donate £100 to the Good Law project and buy a copy of Jolyon Maugham’s terrible book

That’s how confident I am that we won’t

[Marc Overmars]

If we win tonight, I will donate £100 to the Good Law project and buy a copy of Jolyon Maugham’s terrible book

That’s how confident I am that we won’t

I’ve already told my mates who are ready to banter me I’ll buy them dinner if we win.

It ain’t happening.

[KSE Comedy Club]

:lol:

Fair enough. We’ll all suffer this together

Good show old man!* ;)


*Letters may not be old.

[KSE Comedy Club]

If we win tonight, I will donate £100 to the Good Law project and buy a copy of Jolyon Maugham’s terrible book

That’s how confident I am that we won’t

Shit

[KSE Comedy Club]

I’ve already told my mates who are ready to banter me I’ll buy them dinner if we win.

It ain’t happening.

Double shit

[Mac76]

a good result would be a spirited performance and defeat by the odd goal, I suspect we're looking at something more like a 4-1 though, where our niaivities and inexperience are well and truly shown up

what's really annoying is the way people are talking it up like it matters, the title's already gone, I suppose if we won it might shake City up a tiny bit, but tbh we'd probably just drop points elsewhere and hand it to them anyway

[HCZ_Reborn]

a good result would be a spirited performance and defeat by the odd goal, I suspect we're looking at something more like a 4-1 though, where our niaivities and inexperience are well and truly shown up

what's really annoying is the way people are talking it up like it matters, the title's already gone, I suppose if we won it might shake City up a tiny bit, but tbh we'd probably just drop points elsewhere and hand it to them anyway


Bollocks to that, a defeat is a defeat no matter how nicely it’s dressed up or how much effort the players put in. I don’t think we played at all badly when we last went to the Etihad in January but we still lost (so it wasn’t a good result even though I still maintain an unneeded cup run did not help us so wasn’t heart broken)

A good result is a win. Drawing with Southampton made nothing else acceptable. Just because we believe (and with good reason) that a win is unattainable it doesn’t change what the parameters of a good result are.

Tonight we will be disappointed and there’s simply no way of skirting around that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t say a win is unobtainable simply because of the last three games or because of missing Saliba

I say it’s unobtainable because our head coach has proven unable to adapt in circumstances where we have lost important players to injury.

Losing to Everton, drawing with Newcastle and Bournemouth was a result of failing to adapt to teams putting in the deep block and we couldn’t handle that in the absence of Jesus.

Losing at home to City and away to United was a failure of adapting without Thomas Partey.

I’m not saying we should have been expected to win all these games, I’m simply saying why we didn’t

There is also a psychological aspect. Players in the last few games have been making individual and collective errors that they haven’t at other points in the season…we can blame Salah’s goal on Xhaka or we can look at the space Liverpool players had in our box despite having so many back

There is Partey trying to be cute and being dispossessed by Declan Rice, there is Ramsdale kicking the ball straight out to Zinchenko rather than taking the easier option of playing it to Gabriel

That is intermixed with the lack of faith in our system by the players in the absence of Saliba and not pushing up as high as a unit

[Marc Overmars]

a good result would be a spirited performance and defeat by the odd goal, I suspect we're looking at something more like a 4-1 though, where our niaivities and inexperience are well and truly shown up

what's really annoying is the way people are talking it up like it matters, the title's already gone, I suppose if we won it might shake City up a tiny bit, but tbh we'd probably just drop points elsewhere and hand it to them anyway

It still matters until the final whistle goes tonight and confirms an Arsenal defeat. Then it’s all pretty much in miracle territory.

A win would be monumental. I’d still question our ability to take maximum points from the next few games that follow but there’s no doubt a win would offer up one final and very real chance to win the league.

Funnily enough I’m not even nervous about this game anymore. I would have been shitting bricks if we had taken at least 7 points from the last 3 because then we would have been on the brink of winning it. Now we’re just clinging on to a fading dream.

[Letters]

Funnily enough I’m not even nervous about this game anymore. I would have been shitting bricks if we had taken at least 7 points from the last 3 because then we would have been on the brink of winning it. Now we’re just clinging on to a fading dream.
This is how I feel.
I'd be more nervous if it meant something but it doesn't really now. I mean...I guess if we won it would put us back in a decent position in terms of the title, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

[Mac76]

This is how I feel.
I'd be more nervous if it meant something but it doesn't really now. I mean...I guess if we won it would put us back in a decent position in terms of the title, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

I'm nervous only because of it potetially being humiliating, that's why i talk about needing a spirited performance

[Mac76]

I say it’s unobtainable because our head coach has proven unable to adapt in circumstances where we have lost important players to injury.

that's exactly my reasoning too

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm nervous only because of it potenitally being humiliating, that's why i talk about needing a spirited performance

Given that it’s not an aggregate competition where we are defending a lead, how much we lose by is largely academic.

Will other fans take the piss more if we lose 5-0 than if we lose 1-0, yes but fucked if I care what other fans think.

If you’re 1-0 down during the game it’s different because there’s hope of getting back into it, but as a result?….couldn’t give a tuppeny fuck. I’ll respond to a 5-0 defeat the same way as a 1-0 defeat….it’s a defeat

[IBK]

It still matters until the final whistle goes tonight and confirms an Arsenal defeat. Then it’s all pretty much in miracle territory.

A win would be monumental. I’d still question our ability to take maximum points from the next few games that follow but there’s no doubt a win would offer up one final and very real chance to win the league.

Funnily enough I’m not even nervous about this game anymore. I would have been shitting bricks if we had taken at least 7 points from the last 3 because then we would have been on the brink of winning it. Now we’re just clinging on to a fading dream.


Same

[IBK]

Given that it’s not an aggregate competition where we are defending a lead, how much we lose by is largely academic.

Will other fans take the piss more if we lose 5-0 than if we lose 1-0, yes but fucked if I care what other fans think.

If you’re 1-0 down during the game it’s different because there’s hope of getting back into it, but as a result?….couldn’t give a tuppeny fuck. I’ll respond to a 5-0 defeat the same way as a 1-0 defeat….it’s a defeat

Nah - a heavy defeat has the potential to affect us next season - not just this. If we are to kick on, the players have to believe Citeh can be beaten. A narrow loss with a decent performance helps this.

[KSE Comedy Club]

At least we can all be united in defeat with this one :good:

[Mac76]

Given that it’s not an aggregate competition where we are defending a lead, how much we lose by is largely academic.

Will other fans take the piss more if we lose 5-0 than if we lose 1-0, yes but fucked if I care what other fans think.

If you’re 1-0 down during the game it’s different because there’s hope of getting back into it, but as a result?….couldn’t give a tuppeny fuck. I’ll respond to a 5-0 defeat the same way as a 1-0 defeat….it’s a defeat

I disagree, the manner of a defeat is important which is why, whether it was 'only' Bournemouth and Saints or not, the comebacks in those games were important for team spirit and frankly good to watch for those of us who go to the games

btw when i talked about a 'good result' I was talking realistically - obvs I could have said it would be a fantastic result if we win 10-0 but not very realistic...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Nah - a heavy defeat has the potential to affect us next season - not just this. If we are to kick on, the players have to believe Citeh can be beaten. A narrow loss with a decent performance helps this.

Don’t think it makes a sod of difference. If it did you wouldn’t get Bournemouth losing 9-0 at Anfield and then beating Liverpool 1-0 at home.
Using that argument you could say losing only 1-0 to City when they did the double over us in 2020/2021 would have shown we are capable of getting something but we lose 5-0 at city and 2-1 at the Emirates. And that contentious fixture maybe should have given us confidence that we could beat City except despite being a lot better than them we’ve lost both fixtures we’ve played against them this year.
If we get a draw that, that might suggest even if we are not to win the title that we can go toe to toe with them. But a turd is a turd no matter what polish is sprayed on it

[Mac76]

Nah - a heavy defeat has the potential to affect us next season - not just this. If we are to kick on, the players have to believe Citeh can be beaten. A narrow loss with a decent performance helps this.

exactly

[HCZ_Reborn]

I disagree, the manner of a defeat is important which is why, whether it was 'only' Bournemouth and Saints or not, the comebacks in those games were important for team spirit and frankly good to watch for those of us who go to the games

btw when i talked about a 'good result' I was talking realistically - obvs I could have said it would be a fantastic result if we win 10-0 but not very realistic...

Again my opinion is that this Horse dung

The only way for me in which a defeat is a good result is one in which you are holding onto a lead in a two legged cup tie. So losing 1-0 away after winning 2-0 at home (and even then I’d be bitterly disappointed at losing the game but I’d accept that going through would be enough to make it a good result)

As I’ve said we’ve lost heavily to Man City (5-0 last season) and we’ve had narrow defeats (2-1 and 1-0) and neither have had the slightest impact on the games the next season, the only common denominator is that it registers as a defeat.

[Mac76]

Again my opinion is that this Horse dung


thanks, horse dung is actually quite a valuable commodity for farmers, allotment holders etc so I take it you agree :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

thanks, horse dung is actually quite a valuable commodity for farmers, allotment holders etc so I take it you agree :good:

It really doesn’t matter because nothing we say here will determine what will happen.

The likelihood is that we will lose, and I will be equally disappointed regardless of whether it’s a plucky 2-1 defeat or a capitulation

And I can say that with experience because we’ve lost to these fuckers 11 times in a row, and I felt no more happier with the narrow 2-1 defeat at the Emirates than the 5-0 four/five months earlier.

I don’t think it will make a bit of difference as to what happens against Chelsea, we will either win that game or we won’t. Although arguably you could say that a heavy defeat could be even more positive because it might lead things albeit too late to be properly changed around.

But again no defeat is a good result. So it’s just easier to state that it’s unlikely we can get a good result

[Mac76]

It really doesn’t matter because nothing we say here will determine what will happen.

The likelihood is that we will lose, and I will be equally disappointed regardless of whether it’s a plucky 2-1 defeat or a capitulation

And I can say that with experience because we’ve lost to these fuckers 11 times in a row, and I felt no more happier with the narrow 2-1 defeat at the Emirates than the 5-0 four/five months earlier.

I don’t think it will make a bit of difference as to what happens against Chelsea, we will either win that game or we won’t. Although arguably you could say that a heavy defeat could be even more positive because it might lead things albeit too late to be properly changed around.

But again no defeat is a good result. So it’s just easier to state that it’s unlikely we can get a good result

no, because as i state above, in the context of the likelihood of our winning, a good result is actually to lose narrowly - it doesn't mean i will be happy with a loss but frankly compared to what could happen I'd take a fiercely-contested 2-1 defeat right now

again as i said above, to win heavily would be a fantastic result, but it's very unlikely

you clearly don't understand the concept of pride in one's football club or what a heavy defeat says about its prospects, that's where the size of the defeat comes in - ask those Spuds and Man U fans we've all enjoyed laughing at whether they're not bothered about the size of those respective 6-1 and 7-0 defeats they've had recently, I think even you would know what they would say...

They'll be queueing up to laugh at us tonight and i for one don't want that to happen - sure they can laugh at a tight defeat but it won't be the same as if we're trashed

context is everything

[HCZ_Reborn]

They'll be queueing up to laugh at us tonight and i for one don't want that to happen - sure they can laugh at a tight defeat but it won't be the same as if we're trashed

Ultimately this is the only reason you can give me as to why it matters

There’s very little evidence to suggest the size of the defeat will have any impact either on the rest of the season or going forward.

What you care about is not having the other fans piling on, like some of us did against Spurs on Sunday. And I honestly can say who gives a shit……i can’t even begrudge them their Schadenfreude, because I enjoyed it when Liverpool beat United 7-0 or Newcastle beat Spurs 6-1. And I’ll enjoy it again if as I suspect will happen, City bottle the champions league again.

After losing to City 11 times in a row, after dropping six points in the last three games. What possible pride can you take from you take from losing to this team? Because they didn’t wipe the floor with us?.

We’ve already thrown in the towel on the title, I can’t see what harm shitting the bed again is going to do that hasn’t been done already.

I understand about context, but for me I’ve explained the only context in which losing is a good result. This doesn’t mean that criteria.

Ask me whether I’d rather lose 6-1 or 1-0? For me they are just as bad in a league game.

[Marc Overmars]

Arsenal: Ramsdale; White, Holding, Gabriel, Zinchenko; Partey, Xhaka, Odegaard; Saka, Jesus, Martinelli.
Subs: Turner, Tierney, Smith Rowe, Nketiah, Kiwior, Trossard, Jorginho, Vieira, Nelson.

As expected.

COME ON YOU GUNNERS!!!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arsenal: Ramsdale; White, Holding, Gabriel, Zinchenko; Partey, Xhaka, Odegaard; Saka, Jesus, Martinelli.
Subs: Turner, Tierney, Smith Rowe, Nketiah, Kiwior, Trossard, Jorginho, Vieira, Nelson.

As expected.

COME ON YOU GUNNERS!!!

Arteta continues to play the fiddle on the sinking ship

[dostoy]

I say 4-1 to Man City, Haaland with at least two of them.

It would be a gigantic shock if Arsenal got a draw here but it will most likely be a comfortable win for Man City.

No other result is possible.

[Mac76]

Arteta's just completely frozen into his one-tactic, one-team approach - reminds me of that saying about doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results being a sign of madness

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arteta's just completely frozen into his one-tactic, one-team approach - reminds me of that saying about doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results being a sign of madness

My belief here is that we should have experimented with a new system before tonight. It was spoken about that we should have changed things up against Southampton

But on a larger scale, Arteta knows that our system is dependent on holding a high defensive line. That’s fine as long as you’ve got at least one defender who is comfortable on the ball and has pace.

We should have had a plan B worked upon in training. Not just in the event of injuries but to squeeze the life out of games away at the big sides.

[Letters]

Arteta's just completely frozen into his one-tactic, one-team approach - reminds me of that saying about doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results being a sign of madness
Einstein :bow:

(I know he didn’t)

[HCZ_Reborn]

I say 4-1 to Man City, Haaland with at least two of them.

It would be a gigantic shock if Arsenal got a draw here but it will most likely be a comfortable win for Man City.

No other result is possible.


It’s possible to get a win. We’ve got the attacking talent and even without Saliba, it’s possible that we could close out the game.

It’s just very unlikely because we are playing a one dimensional system which City are well aware of and confidence is rock bottom

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/1651288271211593746?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw


Patrick asks Captain Black what he’s done to lift the players spirits and convince them the title is not over and he just cannot answer

Of course it’s hard when you’ve got no personality or charm

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Arsenal: Ramsdale; White, Holding, Gabriel, Zinchenko; Partey, Xhaka, Odegaard; Saka, Jesus, Martinelli.
Subs: Turner, Tierney, Smith Rowe, Nketiah, Kiwior, Trossard, Jorginho, Vieira, Nelson.

As expected.

COME ON YOU GUNNERS!!!

Man City: Ederson, Walker, Dias, Akanji, Stones, Rodrigo, De Bruyne, Gundogan , Bernardo, Grealish, Haaland

Subs: Ortega Moreno, Phillips, Laporte, Alvarez, Gomez, Mahrez, Foden, Palmer, Lewis

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Arsenal: Ramsdale; White, Holding, Gabriel, Zinchenko; Partey, Xhaka, Odegaard; Saka, Jesus, Martinelli.
Subs: Turner, Tierney, Smith Rowe, Nketiah, Kiwior, Trossard, Jorginho, Vieira, Nelson.

As expected.

COME ON YOU GUNNERS!!!

Wow...can't really think of what else to say.

Just hope Vieira won't be the first impact sub...or is that asking to much from a 8m a year manager?

[Mac76]

Wow...can't really think of what else to say.

Just hope Vieira won't be the first impact sub...or is that asking to much from a 8m a year manager?

£8.5m apparently

I'm not sure how much we'd have to pay for a manager who knew how to do more than field one set of players or knew another way of playing...

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Good move.

[Marc Overmars]

1-0 De Bruyne

So easy

[Mac76]

that didn't take long

[McNamara That Ghost...]

1-0 De Bruyne. Fuck.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Partey, we need your voodoo to hold !! :pray:

[Letters]

Sigh…

[Mac76]

Zinchenko's extra touches just completely wrong-foot our own attacks

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ramsdale saves from Haaland!

[Marc Overmars]

They’re so much better than us.

[Mac76]

close from Partey

[ED] well, not that close :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Haaland misses. :blink:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Think we need Jorginho on tbf.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ramsdale keeping us in it.

[Marc Overmars]

Begging to be put out of our misery. :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

None of the outfield players could really complain if they're hauled off at half time.

[HCZ_Reborn]

None of the outfield players could really complain if they're hauled off at half time.

The sad thing is I don’t think anyone is playing terribly or making glaring individual errors we are just being outplayed

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Disallowed goal for Stones. :lol:

[Mac76]

Stones free header but offside

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Given, 2-0.

[HCZ_Reborn]

VAR checking it because obviously they want to find even the most marginal reason to give the goal

[Mac76]

it's given

2-0

[Letters]

Given

:rose:

[Marc Overmars]

Onside

2-0

[HCZ_Reborn]

There’s no way that would have been given had it been the other way round

[Marc Overmars]

It’s not even close to being a contest this game.

What a sad ending to such a promising season.

[Letters]

VAR checking it because obviously they want to find even the most marginal reason to give the goal

I mean, I hate all this look for a molecule that’s on/offside shit.
But if they’re going to do that then I suppose it was the right decision.

Let’s face it, City are better than us. They’re better than everyone.
We can’t get into this game because we are playing a team who are at a different level from everyone else. And we know how they’ve “achieved” it. Fuck them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I sadly just cannot see what we could have done here.

This side are just miles better than us in almost every position

[HCZ_Reborn]

I mean, I hate all this look for a molecule that’s on/offside shit.
But if they’re going to do that then I suppose it was the right decision.

Let’s face it, City are better than us. They’re better than everyone.
We can’t get into this game because we are playing a team who are at a different level from everyone else. And we know how they’ve “achieved” it. Fuck them.


My opinion is always give the attacking player the benefit of the doubt

But given VAR have gone through a forensic tooth comb to deny us goals, it feels like they’ve gone out of their way to make sure they can give the goal to City. It is a goal I think just about but when you know we wouldn’t get that assistance and they don’t need that assistance it fucks me off

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Commentators keep saying we need to keep a lid on our emotions - why?

We did nothing in that half but at least we were cold during most of it and look what we did.

Absolute jack.

[Mac76]

We're being outclassed everywhere, but nonetheless tonight is really showing the pointlessness of Zinchenko - he's done nothing to curtail City in midfield and he can't defend, he just stands between two of our players and plays short passes, when he isn’t giving the ball away, which he's done about four times already

meanwhile we have no proper left back, we've offered very little on the left, Martinelli's even more out of the game than our other players

we need Tierney on at half time for Zin, plus Trossard for Jesus (who's just a spectator), direct attacking players - we will still lose but it's about getting a goal back and showing some real drive and spirit

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It’s not even close to being a contest this game.

What a sad ending to such a promising season.

This is the real sad thing about tonight.

Not even made their keeper work once.

Despite what people might say, looking at the 2 teams I haven't seen much of a mismatch...the main difference is one team is clearly confident and mature and the other is just shitting bricks for no fucking reason!

Even if they had won this game, their was no assurance or confidence that they would win the league so why are they so fucking scared ??!

It's really sad, and I keep saying it that the nervousness of the manager is what is getting to these players.

We need someone handling this team who is fucking confident and able to think beyond a silly "system".

Its sad as Citeh have not moved up a gear and we've fawned over them like a pack of skirts.

Pathetic.

[Letters]

I sadly just cannot see what we could have done here.

This side are just miles better than us in almost every position

Right. I wouldn’t particularly say we’ve played badly, we haven’t been allowed to play at all.
City are just too good for us. We all knew it before the game.
And we know how they’ve “achieved” it.
As I may have said, fuck them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Commentators keep saying we need to keep a lid on our emotions - why?

We did nothing in that half but at least we were cold during most of it and look what we did.

Absolute jack.

This is a side that has our number.

I hate to say it but yes we are playing poorly but there is not a team in Europe I would necessarily back to come here and do much better

If you look at them lately they are not only scoring at will they are not conceding, not conceding goals…barely conceding chances apart from to teams like Bayern who they also duffed up

[McNamara That Ghost...]

This is a side that has our number.

I hate to say it but yes we are playing poorly but there is not a team in Europe I would necessarily back to come here and do much better

If you look at them lately they are not only scoring at will they are not conceding, not conceding goals…barely conceding chances apart from to teams like Bayern who they also duffed up

I just don't accept you can't be more competitive in a game.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

This is a side that has our number.

I hate to say it but yes we are playing poorly but there is not a team in Europe I would necessarily back to come here and do much better

If you look at them lately they are not only scoring at will they are not conceding, not conceding goals…barely conceding chances apart from to teams like Bayern who they also duffed up

I just don't accept you can't be more competitive in a game.

[Marc Overmars]

I don’t think it’s a stretch to say there isn’t a better team in the world than City.

Doesn’t make our collapse any less horrible but it is what it is.

[Letters]

They remind me of peak Barca. It’s like they’ve got 15 players on the pitch.
You just can’t get into a rhythm because they’re pressing and on you at every pass.
And then they just pick you off at will.
It’s relentless.
I’m not going to lose my shit over this result, let’s just pick things up, finish 2nd and try and sign the right players in the summer to improve the squad where it needs improving.

[Letters]

I just don't accept you can't be more competitive in a game.

Has anyone been when City are in the mood?
They demolished Bayern. They’re just a different level.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is the real sad thing about tonight.

Not even made their keeper work once.

Despite what people might say, looking at the 2 teams I haven't seen much of a mismatch...the main difference is one team is clearly confident and matured and the other is just shitting bricks for no fucking reason!

Even if they had won this game, their was no assurance or confidence that they would win the league si why are they so fucking scared ??!

It's really sad, and I keep saying it that the nervousness of the manager is what is getting to these players.

We need someone handling this team who is fucking confident and able to think beyond a silly "system".

Its sad as Citeh have not moved up a gear and we've feigned over them like a pack of skirts.

Pathetic.


It’s not a coincidence that we’ve lost to them what will now be 12 times in a row. We cannot deal with being pressed and that’s even when we have the personnel to play the system we want.


Where’s there’s not a lot of mismatch is between Arteta and Guardiola…they both have the same strengths and the same flaws

If Guardiola was managing us and Arteta was managing City, we’d still be losing

[HCZ_Reborn]

I just don't accept you can't be more competitive in a game.

City are magnificent at doing the thing we struggle most with, the high press. That first half….they’ve pressed us all over the park to the point where we are scared of losing the ball and being countered

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Haaland just dropped the Ashes.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

3-0 De Bruyne.

[Mac76]

It's a one-way contest, but even so it's no coincidence that Jesus and Zin are our two worst players tonight, the two Pep discarded

[Letters]

They’re just so clinical.

[Mac76]

Holding nearly scores :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

They’re just so clinical.

Actually no they aren’t…we’d be looking at 5 or 6 nil if they were

[Mac76]

Xhaka being a c*** again

[Letters]

Actually no they aren’t…we’d be looking at 5 or 6 nil if they were

Ramsdale has made some good saves.
No side scores every good chance. By the standards of the PL they are clinical.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli and Xhaka off, Trossard and Jorginho on.

[Mac76]

City fans singing "are you Tottenham in disguise"...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ramsdale has made some good saves.
No side scores every good chance. By the standards of the PL they are clinical.

Ramsdale has made saves but take the Haaland opportunity just before the third, should have buried it giving Ramsdale no chance whatsoever

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

No shit Sherlock, the subs we'd asked for now that we are 3-0 down

What a joke of a leader

[HCZ_Reborn]

Martinelli and Xhaka off, Trossard and Jorginho on.

I don’t think it would have made a bit of difference but why the fuck didn’t Jorginho start instead of that Albanian midwit

[Letters]

City fans singing "are you Tottenham in disguise"...

:lol: Yeah, that made me laugh

[McNamara That Ghost...]

City fans singing "are you Tottenham in disguise"...

No, they beat them.

[Mac76]

I wish our fans would stop looking so miserable, what did they expect?

[KSE Comedy Club]

When are Arsenal coming on the pitch?

This is pathetic

[KSE Comedy Club]

We haven't even attempted to put up a fight.

Lame, lame, lame

This is on Arteta imo.
Zinchenko should not be starting and neither should Holding.

[Mac76]

ESR coming on to save the game - Arteta really doesn't like him does he?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Gundogan off, Mahrez on.

Odegaard off for Smith Rowe.

[Mac76]

Zinchenko should not be starting

I just wish all the fanboys could see what a total waste of space this guy is

[HCZ_Reborn]

ESR coming on to save the game - Arteta really doesn't like him does he?

Might have something to do with the fact he’s not very good

He can’t play on the wing because he becomes asthmatic if he runs too much

He’s also weirdly lopsided…convinced one leg is shorter than the other

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Nelson and Nketiah. :bow:

[Mac76]

Saka :doh:

[Letters]

We haven't even attempted to put up a fight.

Lame, lame, lame

This is on Arteta imo.
Zinchenko should not be starting and neither should Holding.

But how do you compete with this.
Look at the players City have on the bench.
I am a bit disappointed at the scale of the defeat but we knew they were going to do this.
They’re probably the best side in Europe and we…aren’t

[HCZ_Reborn]

But how do you compete with this.
Look at the players City have on the bench.
I am a bit disappointed at the scale of the defeat but we knew they were going to do this.
They’re probably the best side in Europe and we…aren’t

I think we’ve been timid this evening. Looked constantly scared of being caught on the counter and we’ve been pressed into submission

[Mac76]

I think we’ve been timid this evening. Looked constantly scared of being caught on the counter and we’ve been pressed into submission

got to agree, Nelson's done more in two minutes than any other player all night

[Letters]

3-1, it’s ON! Holding :haha:

[Mac76]

Holding 3-1 :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

HOLDING!!!

[Mac76]

5 mins ET :popcorn:

[Letters]

got to agree, Nelson's done more in two minutes than any other player all night
I just think City have eased off. It’s job done, they’ve got the CL to think about, they’ve gone down a gear. I don’t think we’ve particularly stepped up.

[Letters]

:lol: 4-1. Haaland

[Mac76]

Haaland 4-1 - I predicted that exact score, but it's hardly a work of genius to do so :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

4-1 Haaland with +1.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Still top!

Whilst it lasts. :ninja:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Still top!

Whilst it lasts. :ninja:

In reality we are to all intents and purposes 4 points behind and we know it

[Mac76]

In reality we are to all intents and purposes 4 points behind and we know it

He was obvs joking but while we're here, you could say it's as good as 5 with goal difference

[Letters]

We’ve obviously slipped before tonight, but City are fucking relentless.
You have to be basically perfect to beat them. The only season anyone stopped them of late was when Liverpool were basically perfect until they’d all but won it.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

In reality we are to all intents and purposes 4 points behind and we know it

No I think we still have it in our hands. Obviously.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No I think we still have it in our hands. Obviously.

I got you weren’t being serious. But not in the mood to be bothered with facetiousness

I’ll be philosophical tomorrow…possibly :haha:

[Marc Overmars]

This game was not a contest, it was a complete mismatch. The second half at the Emirates against them was also the same.

We’ve done remarkably well this season but now we’ve firmly been put back in our place. The real disappointment comes from the shit shows that preceded this game because I think we all suspected that tonight would pan out how it did no matter what form we were in.

My only hope now is that we don’t give up and let them stroll to the title. At least take it as far as possible, although it’s difficult to see where the points are going to come from. Chelsea are fucking shit but would anyone be shocked if they got one over on us at the moment?

Speaking of that Chelsea game, I want to see several changes made next week. Certain players are no longer deserving of their place in the starting 11 IMO. Things need to be freshened up.

[Mac76]

Yes City were ruthlessly good - what a performance from KDB - but to be so pathetically second best isn't good enough and i put that down to Arteta's refusal to change anything - it's actually not good for the starting players to all know they will always start every week, regardless of the performance they put in - competition is healthy

Arteta has let this season slip through abdicating any responsiblity for thinking about different tactics, players or formations and just doing the same thing each week

I'm really worried about who he might ditch in the summer, not just Tierney but Nelson, Balogun and god knows who else, that could be real assets in the future if we kept them and gave them a decent amount of minutes

This is exactly why i said the club needed to think about whether he actually is the right person to take things forward, people can mock it but everything i thought about him is being shown to be true and he shows no sign of realising his faults

[HCZ_Reborn]

Holding, Xhaka, Zinchenko, Saka, Jesus and Odegaard also deserve to be dropped

I would drop Partey but we have no one we can play in central midfield

Play Ramsdale, Tierney, Kiwior, Gabriel, White, Jorginho, Partey, Smith Rowe, Martinelli, Trossard and Nelson

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes City were ruthlessly good - what a performance from KDB - but to be so pathetically second best isn't good enough and i put that down to Arteta's refusal to change anything - it's actually not good for the starting players to all know they will always start every week, regardless of the performance they put in - competition is healthy

Arteta has let this season slip through abdicating any responsiblity for thinking about different tactics, players or formations and just doing the same thing each week

I'm really worried about who he might ditch in the summer, not just Tierney but Nelson, Balogun and god knows who else, that could be real assets in the future if we kept them and gave them a decent amount of minutes

This is exactly why i said the club needed to think about whether he actually is the right person to take things forward, people can mock it but everything i thought about him is being shown to be true and he shows no sign of realising his faults

Changing a manager is a cost benefit analysis

And ultimately as an Analysis it fails when the question is posed…is there an immediately better candidate out there?

And the answer is no. Not because Arteta is so good but because most coaches are pretty average and it feels like it would be utterly silly to consider wanting to ditch him without a consideration of who would be an improvement

It’s not that no one gets your frustration with Arteta….we all do, I can’t stand the guy. I would be Arteta out if anyone stood out to me as an obvious step up.

I like Patrick Vieira personally, but his time with Crystal Palace wasn’t great and he doesn’t have a more than average record to boast of anywhere else.

My feeling is I wanted Arteta gone at the end of last season, but what we’ve done this season has met my expectation that he does deserve to continue being the coach for the time being

However, next season if we don’t make the right signings in the transfer market and sort out the issues in central midfield, have competent cover for Saliba and stop making pointless luxury signings like Zinchenko and Vieira. If we don’t make a dent in the champions league and we don’t maintain the high standard in the league especially as United will go berserk in the transfer market in the summer as will Newcastle. If we don’t challenge for the league, If we don’t get to the 1/4 finals of the champions league at a minimum then yes it’s time to part ways with Captain Black

[Marc Overmars]

If Arteta doesn’t ring in the changes for Chelsea next week he’s fucking mad.

This team is dead on its feet at the moment, totally bereft of confidence. They’ve absolutely shat the bed and it’s hard to believe this is the same crop that took us to the top of the league.

[Mac76]

Changing a manager is a cost benefit analysis

And ultimately as an Analysis it fails when the question is posed…is there an immediately better candidate out there?

And the answer is no. Not because Arteta is so good but because most coaches are pretty average and it feels like it would be utterly silly to consider wanting to ditch him without a consideration of who would be an improvement

It’s not that no one gets your frustration with Arteta….we all do, I can’t stand the guy. I would be Arteta out if anyone stood out to me as an obvious step up.

I like Patrick Vieira personally, but his time with Crystal Palace wasn’t great and he doesn’t have a more than average record to boast of anywhere else.

sure i get that and i admit I don't know who's out there, but Brighton found a very good manager seemingly easily so it's not beyond possibility, anyway it won't happen I know but I won't be feeling as upbeat as i should this summer about next season, unless i see some kind of sign that Arteta has learnt something

[Mac76]

If Arteta doesn’t ring in the changes for Chelsea next week he’s fucking mad.

This team is dead on its feet at the moment, totally bereft of confidence. They’ve absolutely shat the bed and it’s hard to believe this is the same crop that took us to the top of the league.

agree, the league is gone so he needs to just free things up selection-wise - players like Nelson and Trossard definitely deserve to start

[HCZ_Reborn]

sure i get that and i admit I don't know who's out there, but Brighton found a very good manager seemingly easily so it's not beyond possibility, anyway it won't happen I know but I won't be feeling as upbeat as i should this summer about next season, unless i see some kind of sign that Arteta has learnt something

Brighton has a set up where any half competent coach could step in and be reasonably successful

Fantastically run club but it’s also essentially a mid table club punching ever so slightly above its weight.

Chelsea and Tottenham need to be more instructive of where dismissing someone with no idea who you bring in can go wrong.

What I’d prefer if we are talking about Brighton is to have a system where who the coach is, is not overly relevant…because you’ve got a coaching set up that works autonomously.

What concerns me most about Arteta was on display in an interview he gave earlier to BT sport. Patrick Vieira asked him “what have you done to boost the players spirits and make them believe it’s not over” and Arteta replied “they know it’s not over”.

I don’t think Klopp or Guardiola are particularly great at rotating their squad, what they are far better at Arteta at is instilling confidence. Those Liverpool players would lie down in the middle of a motorway for Klopp because he has a big personality, can sell what he’s trying to do. Arteta despite Letters’ mockery for me pointing it out, doesn’t have that…he’s an introvert…not a people person.

[Letters]

They’ve absolutely shat the bed


Have they, though?
I mean, you could look at Liverpool as 2 points dropped, but Liverpool aren’t a bad side despite their wobbles this year and they’ve got an excellent home record. Given the chances they had at the end you could equally see that as a point gained. West Ham was a shit show, no dispute that was 2 points dropped. Southampton…well, you could argue that if you’re 3-1 down at 88 minutes then rescuing a point isn’t bad…but you really shouldn’t be 3-1 down at home to the bottom side. So I’m more inclined to see that as silly points dropped. But you can offset that by games like Bournemouth where we got an important 3 points late on when it looked like we were going to lose. Overall it’s been 24 points in 10 games, it’s a points rate which over a season should win you the league or get you close. I can’t really fault our response to losing vs City.
But let’s say we had won all 3 of the above. We’d be 8 points above City and they’d have 2 games in hand. Which is basically 2 points. That’s only a draw when they win and they’d be above us on goal difference.
As we’ve seen in the head to heads they’re just better than us. They’re better than everyone, I don’t think anyone else has dominated us like that this season. And they’re just a relentless machine. I am disappointed we’ve made it easier for them than we should have but I can’t help feel they’d have run us down in the end anyway with our run in. As good as we’ve been we were in a slightly false position with 3 of the top 6 to play away in the run in.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Have they, though?
I mean, you could look at Liverpool as 2 points dropped, but Liverpool aren’t a bad side despite their wobbles this year and they’ve got an excellent home record. Given the chances they had at the end you could equally see that as a point gained. West Ham was a shit show, no dispute that was 2 points dropped. Southampton…well, you could argue that if you’re 3-1 down at 88 minutes then rescuing a point isn’t bad…but you really shouldn’t be 3-1 down at home to the bottom side. So I’m more inclined to see that as silly points dropped. But you can offset that by games like Bournemouth where we got an important 3 points late on when it looked like we were going to lose. Overall it’s been 24 points in 10 games, it’s a points rate which over a season should win you the league or get you close. I can’t really fault our response to losing vs City.
But let’s say we had won all 3 of the above. We’d be 8 points above City and they’d have 2 games in hand. Which is basically 2 points. That’s only a draw when they win and they’d be above us on goal difference.
As we’ve seen in the head to heads they’re just better than us. They’re better than everyone, I don’t think anyone else has dominated us like that this season. And they’re just a relentless machine. I am disappointed we’ve made it easier for them than we should have but I can’t help feel they’d have run us down in the end anyway with our run in. As good as we’ve been we were in a slightly false position with 3 of the top 6 to play away in the run in.


Just forget the league season entirely and look at purely our record against Man City

They’ve beaten us 12 times in a row. Scored 31 goals and conceded only 5


I don’t think there’s any side who has played 12 league games over six seasons against City and haven’t taken a point or two somewhere

Everton, West Ham, Brighton they’ve all taken something in one game

Not us


Spurs seem to get more points against City than any other team does, beaten them four times in a row at home

We’ve lost six times in a row at home to them, lost seven times away

Suggests to me that it might be something we are doing wrong.

[Marc Overmars]

Have they, though?
I mean, you could look at Liverpool as 2 points dropped, but Liverpool aren’t a bad side despite their wobbles this year and they’ve got an excellent home record. Given the chances they had at the end you could equally see that as a point gained. West Ham was a shit show, no dispute that was 2 points dropped. Southampton…well, you could argue that if you’re 3-1 down at 88 minutes then rescuing a point isn’t bad…but you really shouldn’t be 3-1 down at home to the bottom side. So I’m more inclined to see that as silly points dropped. But you can offset that by games like Bournemouth where we got an important 3 points late on when it looked like we were going to lose. Overall it’s been 24 points in 10 games, it’s a points rate which over a season should win you the league or get you close. I can’t really fault our response to losing vs City.
But let’s say we had won all 3 of the above. We’d be 8 points above City and they’d have 2 games in hand. Which is basically 2 points. That’s only a draw when they win and they’d be above us on goal difference.
As we’ve seen in the head to heads they’re just better than us. They’re better than everyone, I don’t think anyone else has dominated us like that this season. And they’re just a relentless machine. I am disappointed we’ve made it easier for them than we should have but I can’t help feel they’d have run us down in the end anyway with our run in. As good as we’ve been we were in a slightly false position with 3 of the top 6 to play away in the run in.

They have as far as I can see.

Body language all wrong. No real intent or energy with their transitional play anymore, retreating deeper and deeper into their own half because they’re not confident enough to play their way out of trouble, players dawdling and getting forced into errors, it all just smacks of a team that’s shit itself. It’s harsh I know but confidence is a very fragile thing and it seems like whatever we had that took us to the top of the league isn’t there now. As I said earlier, the real disappointment comes from what happened in the previous 3 games. Tonight could have happened no matter what form we were in but it pretty much confirmed to me that they’ve thrown in the towel.

[Letters]

I dunno. After the City game at The Emirates some on here were predicting a complete collapse. I’ve teased NQ for his proclamation that Utd would finish 10 points clear of us. The response has been terrific. Sure those run of draws were disappointing but only the West Ham game was a complete capitulation. Liverpool have an excellent home record and we actually did pretty well to get a point in the end. Even the Southampton game, the way we came back at the end - we wouldn’t have done that last season and we might have nicked it at the death.
Last night…City just didn’t let us play. They really have the measure of us and it’s worrying. It was a big red flag when they beat us at The Emirates. But look at the players they can bring off the bench, they’re just better than us in every department. They know it and we know it.
But we know how they’ve got there and if the FA or whoever it is had any balls they’d have kicked them out of the league. So fuck them.

[KSE Comedy Club]

But how do you compete with this.
Look at the players City have on the bench.
I am a bit disappointed at the scale of the defeat but we knew they were going to do this.
They’re probably the best side in Europe and we…aren’t

See this is the problem.

It's the perception that City are some unbeatable side with all the superhero players in the world.

You compete by actually turning up and putting some fight in, not standing like rabbits trapped in the headlights for the first 45 mins and not even trying to play the way we have been for the two thirds of the season.

A win was always an outside chance but to just rollover and not even try is unforgivable.

[Marc Overmars]

See this is the problem.

It's the perception that City are some unbeatable side with all the superhero players in the world.

You compete by actually turning up and putting some fight in, not standing like rabbits trapped in the headlights for the first 45 mins and not even trying to play the way we have been for the two thirds of the season.

A win was always an outside chance but to just rollover and not even try is unforgivable.

The game wasn’t a contest and I would certainly believe that the players felt inferior before a ball was even kicked too, their body language told me everything I needed to know. City are probably the best team in the world but it doesn’t mean you can’t make it difficult for them. Lesser teams than us have taken points off them this season.

Beaten home and away 6 seasons running and a few cup defeats on top of that. Embarrassing record.

All boils down to how you handle the occasion, I would imagine there wasn’t a single person associated with City who felt any pressure last night. This is why I always felt them being involved in all competitions while us having just the league to focus on never meant anything. There’s no advantage to be had when the team you’re competing with is just streets ahead of you to begin with.

[KSE Comedy Club]

They have as far as I can see.

Body language all wrong. No real intent or energy with their transitional play anymore, retreating deeper and deeper into their own half because they’re not confident enough to play their way out of trouble, players dawdling and getting forced into errors, it all just smacks of a team that’s shit itself. It’s harsh I know but confidence is a very fragile thing and it seems like whatever we had that took us to the top of the league isn’t there now. As I said earlier, the real disappointment comes from what happened in the previous 3 games. Tonight could have happened no matter what form we were in but it pretty much confirmed to me that they’ve thrown in the towel.

Agree with all this.

If we had continued on with the way we have been playing we wouldn't be in this position now, it's almost as if we got too cocky. West Ham game was a prime example of that.
City were city last night, not anything special despite what all the pundits are saying whilst wanking themselves silly over.

We did not turn up AT ALL, for around 65 mins. Arteta, hell bent on not daring to make any changes and stick with a line up that has failed 3 times in a row, did the same as always and made good changes too late in the game to have any real effect on the outcome.

City are beatable - proven by teams beating them this season and holding them to draws.
But as usual we don't even try.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I dunno. After the City game at The Emirates some on here were predicting a complete collapse. I’ve teased NQ for his proclamation that Utd would finish 10 points clear of us. The response has been terrific. Sure those run of draws were disappointing but only the West Ham game was a complete capitulation. Liverpool have an excellent home record and we actually did pretty well to get a point in the end. Even the Southampton game, the way we came back at the end - we wouldn’t have done that last season and we might have nicked it at the death.
Last night…City just didn’t let us play. They really have the measure of us and it’s worrying. It was a big red flag when they beat us at The Emirates. But look at the players they can bring off the bench, they’re just better than us in every department. They know it and we know it.
But we know how they’ve got there and if the FA or whoever it is had any balls they’d have kicked them out of the league. So fuck them.

I think you'll find we did that ourselves, nothing to do with City.
Standing still in your own half for 45 minutes, shitting your pants doesn't show much of a fight to try and play and win the game.

[Letters]

It's the perception that City are some unbeatable side with all the superhero players in the world.
De Bruyne is surely the best player in the league right now and Haaland equalled Clive Allen's record last night with 7 league games left.
Last night they brought Mahrez off the bench, and then World Cup winner Alvarez came off the bench too :shrug:
Come on, dude, they have quality all over the pitch, they're better than us in every department, they have players on their bench who would walk into our team.

They've won 9 and drawn 1 of the last 10 league games while effortlessly progressing through the cup competitions.
Despite the recent wobble it's hardly been a collapse, City are just relentless and with our run in they were always likely to mow us down.
The Saliba injury has clearly has caused us a big problem. City can just call on another top class player to cover any position, we can't.

City's points average over the last 5 seasons is more than The Invincibles got. The only time anyone stopped them was when Liverpool basically won every game till February and only took their foot off the gas when they'd all but won the title. I just don't accept we didn't try last night, we were just overrun by a side who are at a different level from us and pretty much everyone else. And we all know how we got there. Fuck them.

[KSE Comedy Club]

The game wasn’t a contest and I would certainly believe that the players felt inferior before a ball was even kicked too, their body language told me everything I needed to know. City are probably the best team in the world but it doesn’t mean you can’t make it difficult for them. Lesser teams than us have taken points off them this season.

Beaten home and away 6 seasons running and a few cup defeats on top of that. Embarrassing record.

All boils down to how you handle the occasion, I would imagine there wasn’t a single person associated with City who felt any pressure last night. This is why I always felt them being involved in all competitions while us having just the league to focus on never meant anything. There’s no advantage to be had when the team you’re competing with is just streets ahead of you to begin with.

Absolutely spot on

[selassie]

The game wasn’t a contest and I would certainly believe that the players felt inferior before a ball was even kicked too, their body language told me everything I needed to know. City are probably the best team in the world but it doesn’t mean you can’t make it difficult for them. Lesser teams than us have taken points off them this season.

Beaten home and away 6 seasons running and a few cup defeats on top of that. Embarrassing record.

All boils down to how you handle the occasion, I would imagine there wasn’t a single person associated with City who felt any pressure last night. This is why I always felt them being involved in all competitions while us having just the league to focus on never meant anything. There’s no advantage to be had when the team you’re competing with is just streets ahead of you to begin with.

:gp:

Totally agree.

[KSE Comedy Club]

De Bruyne is surely the best player in the league right now and Haaland equalled Clive Allen's record last night with 7 league games left.
Last night they brought Mahrez off the bench, and then World Cup winner Alvarez came off the bench too :shrug:
Come on, dude, they have quality all over the pitch, they're better than us in every department, they have players on their bench who would walk into our team.

They've won 9 and drawn 1 of the last 10 league games while effortlessly progressing through the cup competitions.
Despite the recent wobble it's hardly been a collapse, City are just relentless and with our run in they were always likely to mow us down.
The Saliba injury has clearly has caused us a big problem. City can just call on another top class player to cover any position, we can't.

City's points average over the last 5 seasons is more than The Invincibles got. The only time anyone stopped them was when Liverpool basically won every game till February and only took their foot off the gas when they'd all but won the title. I just don't accept we didn't try last night, we were just overrun by a side who are at a different level from us and pretty much everyone else. And we all know how we got there. Fuck them.

Again, I'm not saying they are not a great team with great players, but they are the same players who were not playing well and getting held or beaten by lesser teams than us this season.
They are beatable if you put a shift in and try to cause them problems.

We did not do that last night, not even close.

[selassie]

See this is the problem.

It's the perception that City are some unbeatable side with all the superhero players in the world.

You compete by actually turning up and putting some fight in, not standing like rabbits trapped in the headlights for the first 45 mins and not even trying to play the way we have been for the two thirds of the season.

A win was always an outside chance but to just rollover and not even try is unforgivable.

If anything we should have at least tried a different approach last night. I felt like Arteta just sent them out there telling them to do their "thing" when in fact their "thing" has not been working for weeks, it was earlier on in the season but it isn't now.

Like MO said, the body language of the players and their lack of application told me that they did not believe they were capable of competing with City, the game was lost before we even kicked a ball.

City are on current form the best team in Europe by some distance, that is pretty much clear. But what that should have meant to Arteta is that we go there and make it difficult for them, shut up shop, amend our tactics and personnel to make it as difficult as possible for them. We made it very easy for them last night and have pretty much handed them the title over the past few weeks.

I think Arteta is doing a very good job now and has improved us more than I thought he ever could, but if we wish to maintain these standards and see ourselves as a Top 2 PL side and CL contender then we have a way to go yet. Arteta needs to improve, the squad needs to improve, the mentality within the squad needs to improve and we need to recruit well going forward.

[Letters]

Again, I'm not saying they are not a great team with great players, but they are the same players who were not playing well and getting held or beaten by lesser teams than us this season.
They are beatable if you put a shift in and try to cause them problems.

We did not do that last night, not even close.

Earlier in the season they were dropping silly points, but they do have a habit of going on these long, relentless winning runs at the business end of the season and turning up in the big games. Last night we just couldn't settle on the ball or play our game. They were pressing us so high up the pitch. It was like peak Barcelona at times where it felt like they had 15 players on the pitch.
I dunno. There is clearly a mentality problem when we play them. Maybe our style plays in to their hands. But we're defeated before we play then. The fans knew we'd lose, it feels like the Arsenal players knew they'd lose and the City players knew they'd win. We lost before a ball was kicked. I don't know how we get out of that, we have to stand up in these games if we're going to compete.

[Niall_Quinn]

Didn't watch this one because I knew the result in advance and knew how the game would play out. So not much point taking the time. Don't like repeats.

Might watch the season run-in though because I'm not certain the team will now pack it in and collapse down to 3rd or 4th spot. That's the most likely outcome, but this time, for the first time in an age, there's a chance they might dust themselves off and earn their pay. You would expect to see at least that much if the rest of the season is to be considered more than a fluke.