Man City vs Arsenal 26.04.2023 Match reaction and player ratings

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ramsdale 8 - You wonder what it could have been if he hadn’t made so many saves


White 5 - Decent goal line clearance at 1-0 otherwise ineffective


Holding 4. Not his fault but when you play him in a system like ours against Man City he will be badly exposed. Given him a 4 because he scored


Gabriel 5 - Couldn’t do much but has suffered without a decent centre back partner


Zinchenko 3 - Embarassing



Partey 5 - Badly shown up last night, dispossessed constantly and isolated



Xhaka 4 - His usual dawdling



Odegaard 3 - For all the good performances he’s put in, doesn’t turn up in important away games


Martinelli 4 - Isolated as per usual


Jesus 4- Did he play because don’t remember seeing him


Saka 4 - As much penetration as a marshmallow phallus



Jorginho 6
Trossard 6
Nelson 6

Nketiah 4
Smith Rowe 4


Well this was largely what we expected wasn’t it?. We know we were up against it because of how Rampant city were, but what rankles is how easy it was for them. Arteta like last season blames the players saying they have to look at themselves in the mirror when he has set them up to fail. This was a team that never believed it wasn’t going to get a pasting.
The parallels between last season and now are astonishing, when adversity hits we hit the wall because the coach trusts certain players too much and certain players not enough.
If we recruit well in central midfield in the summer I believe we will have a very good squad, but it’s one that the coach needs to utilise more.
Saka has played too many games this season, at times he has been brilliant but recently not so good and I don’t believe it would harm him to sit out a few games, he’s a decent lad with strong self belief but without being arrogant with it
We shouldn’t need to sweat on the fitness of William Saliba or Thomas Partey the way we have. We don’t need to play an inverted left back, it made no difference for us in midfield last night.

Arteta for me is a slow learner because of his total self belief, he’s built a team that has excelled this season but if it crumbles when the obstacles emerge it will have been for nothing.

As I said last night, he has earned the right to another season but it does not erase the doubts I have about him especially as the same mistakes have been present and seemingly not addressed.

Next season will be even harder than this one, city are going no where and on top of that United and Newcastle will be much stronger. That plus champions league….if Arteta cannot adapt and continue our progress then it will be time to part ways

[Marc Overmars]

Partey was really, really bad. Feel like he’s downed tools and one of the biggest culprits over the past 4 games.

Signings I would be looking to make are:

2 CM’s, 1 CB and probably a LB if Tierney wants to go.

Also need to make a call on Balogun or buy a striker. Jesus is a great footballer but generally shite in front of goal. You also don’t get that hold up play with him like Haaland was providing De Bruyne with. Not being able to mix it up has made us one dimensional and I think we’ve been figured out because of it.

If changes aren’t made for the Chelsea game I would really begin to question Arteta’s logic.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Ramsdale 8 - You wonder what it could have been if he hadn’t made so many saves


White 5 - Decent goal line clearance at 1-0 otherwise ineffective


Holding 4. Not his fault but when you play him in a system like ours against Man City he will be badly exposed. Given him a 4 because he scored


Gabriel 5 - Couldn’t do much but has suffered without a decent centre back partner


Zinchenko 3 - Embarassing



Partey 5 - Badly shown up last night, dispossessed constantly and isolated



Xhaka 4 - His usual dawdling



Odegaard 3 - For all the good performances he’s put in, doesn’t turn up in important away games


Martinelli 4 - Isolated as per usual


Jesus 4- Did he play because don’t remember seeing him


Saka 4 - As much penetration as a marshmallow phallus



Jorginho 6
Trossard 6
Nelson 6

Nketiah 4
Smith Rowe 4


Well this was largely what we expected wasn’t it?. We know we were up against it because of how Rampant city were, but what rankles is how easy it was for them. Arteta like last season blames the players saying they have to look at themselves in the mirror when he has set them up to fail. This was a team that never believed it wasn’t going to get a pasting.
The parallels between last season and now are astonishing, when adversity hits we hit the wall because the coach trusts certain players too much and certain players not enough.
If we recruit well in central midfield in the summer I believe we will have a very good squad, but it’s one that the coach needs to utilise more.
Saka has played too many games this season, at times he has been brilliant but recently not so good and I don’t believe it would harm him to sit out a few games, he’s a decent lad with strong self belief but without being arrogant with it
We shouldn’t need to sweat on the fitness of William Saliba or Thomas Partey the way we have. We don’t need to play an inverted left back, it made no difference for us in midfield last night.

Arteta for me is a slow learner because of his total self belief, he’s built a team that has excelled this season but if it crumbles when the obstacles emerge it will have been for nothing.

As I said last night, he has earned the right to another season but it does not erase the doubts I have about him especially as the same mistakes have been present and seemingly not addressed.

Next season will be even harder than this one, city are going no where and on top of that United and Newcastle will be much stronger. That plus champions league….if Arteta cannot adapt and continue our progress then it will be time to part ways

Very generous.

Ramsdale gets a 7 and the rest get 1 imo.

Didn't even turn up until the 70th mintue.

What a total fucking shit show.

But it's ok, Arteta is 'over achieving' and the players think 2nd + CL is alright.

Get in the bin.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Partey was really, really bad. Feel like he’s downed tools and one of the biggest culprits over the past 4 games.

Signings I would be looking to make are:

2 CM’s, 1 CB and probably a LB if Tierney wants to go.

Also need to make a call on Balogun or buy a striker. Jesus is a great footballer but generally shite in front of goal. You also don’t get that hold up play with him like Haaland was providing De Bruyne with. Not being able to mix it up has made us one dimensional and I think we’ve been figured out because of it.

I think we should keep Tierney and sell Zinchenko quite frankly

[selassie]

I expected us to get a beating last night, it was a non-contest, we were defeated before a ball was even kicked. Our form and general confidence has pretty much gone and the team we are seeing now is performing like the Arsenal of last season. Arteta certainly has a part to play in this, he is just repeating the same things now with the line up of the team and the tactics, he is expecting to see different results which clearly isn't happening. This team even with everybody fully fit is not good enough to go to City and win, especially a City who are now in top form.

City are great and all that but we have made it very easy for them with our recent form, we have dropped points in unexpected places and have performed way below the level we maintained earlier this season, our form nosedived from the Liverpool game onwards.

Despite the above, it has been a successful season in terms of my personal expectations of the team / squad. To maintain this standard going into next season with the added bonus or headache of CL! We need to invest in real quality, as others have said, 2 CM's, a CB that is good enough to properly challenge for a starting place and possibly a LB if Tierney goes. The squad as it stands is clearly not strong enough to mount a challenge next season in PL and CL, we have to buy ready made players like Rice, Caicedo if we want to maintain this standard going forward.

P.S. Agree with what others have said about Arteta use of the squad, it's become a bit of an issue now, changes most certainly should be made for Chelsea, especially offensively where you could argue 2 of the 3 starting players (Saka and Jesus /or Martinelli) could and should be rotated with the likes of Trossard and Nelson. I would also rotate Jorginho with Partey, Partey has been really bad in this run-in.

[Letters]

Didn't even turn up until the 70th minute.
That's not what happened.
We didn't suddenly "turn up", City took their foot off the gas, it was job done and they have the CL to think about.
Arsenal used to do this in their pomp, blow teams away and then coast, that's what City did last night.


But it's ok, Arteta is 'over achieving' and the players think 2nd + CL is alright.
Given where we've been over the last few seasons where did you think we'd finish this year? Top 4 was my expectation or hope.
If you'd told me that we'd be in a genuine title race I'd have laughed in your stupid face.
Any reaction to or analysis of this season has to be in the context of where we've been over the last few years.

[KSE Comedy Club]

That's not what happened.
We didn't suddenly "turn up", City took their foot off the gas, it was job done and they have the CL to think about.
Arsenal used to do this in their pomp, blow teams away and then coast, that's what City did last night.

You have to be in the game from kick off for that scenario to apply though, we weren't until the 70th minute - so I stand by what I said.



Given where we've been over the last few seasons where did you think we'd finish this year? Top 4 was my expectation or hope.
If you'd told me that we'd be in a genuine title race I'd have laughed in your stupid face.
Any reaction to or analysis of this season has to be in the context of where we've been over the last few years.

Expectations change with result and time though.
I would have agreed with you at the start of the season.

However, being so many points clear for most of the season, having our destiny in our hands and then throwing it all away in the same manner we seem to do every season is a bit different.

I feel completely let down now, and us finishing second just seems like a loser mentality to me.

[selassie]

You have to be in the game from kick off for that scenario to apply though, we weren't until the 70th minute - so I stand by what I said.




Expectations change with result and time though.
I would have agreed with you at the start of the season.

However, being so many points clear for most of the season, having our destiny in our hands and then throwing it all away in the same manner we seem to do every season is a bit different.

I feel completely let down now, and us finishing second just seems like a loser mentality to me.

We have had one decent season in god knows how long, expectations change but we are by no means a certified Top 2 side like Liverpool have been over the past 4 or 5 seasons up until this season.

This current Arsenal team at the moment is more like the Liverpool side that challenged under Rodgers with Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge than the Liverpool side that challenged repeatedly under Klopp. Whilst I do think we look like a certified top 4 side on this seasons showing, we certainly need to improve both the team and squad to maintain this challenge next season especially with the added CL games. To take the next step forward is all about further internal improvement, both the manager and players and also recruiting very well. We pretty much need to follow the "Liverpool Template"

[HCZ_Reborn]

I expected us to get a beating last night, it was a non-contest, we were defeated before a ball was even kicked. Our form and general confidence has pretty much gone and the team we are seeing now is performing like the Arsenal of last season. Arteta certainly has a part to play in this, he is just repeating the same things now with the line up of the team and the tactics, he is expecting to see different results which clearly isn't happening. This team even with everybody fully fit is not good enough to go to City and win, especially a City who are now in top form.

City are great and all that but we have made it very easy for them with our recent form, we have dropped points in unexpected places and have performed way below the level we maintained earlier this season, our form nosedived from the Liverpool game onwards.

Despite the above, it has been a successful season in terms of my personal expectations of the team / squad. To maintain this standard going into next season with the added bonus or headache of CL! We need to invest in real quality, as others have said, 2 CM's, a CB that is good enough to properly challenge for a starting place and possibly a LB if Tierney goes. The squad as it stands is clearly not strong enough to mount a challenge next season in PL and CL, we have to buy ready made players like Rice, Caicedo if we want to maintain this standard going forward.

P.S. Agree with what others have said about Arteta use of the squad, it's become a bit of an issue now, changes most certainly should be made for Chelsea, especially offensively where you could argue 2 of the 3 starting players (Saka and Jesus /or Martinelli) could and should be rotated with the likes of Trossard and Nelson. I would also rotate Jorginho with Partey, Partey has been really bad in this run-in.

:gp:

A sensible take, because it’s largely the same as mine :haha:

[IBK]

Ramsdale 8 - You wonder what it could have been if he hadn’t made so many saves


White 5 - Decent goal line clearance at 1-0 otherwise ineffective


Holding 4. Not his fault but when you play him in a system like ours against Man City he will be badly exposed. Given him a 4 because he scored


Gabriel 5 - Couldn’t do much but has suffered without a decent centre back partner


Zinchenko 3 - Embarassing



Partey 5 - Badly shown up last night, dispossessed constantly and isolated



Xhaka 4 - His usual dawdling



Odegaard 3 - For all the good performances he’s put in, doesn’t turn up in important away games


Martinelli 4 - Isolated as per usual


Jesus 4- Did he play because don’t remember seeing him


Saka 4 - As much penetration as a marshmallow phallus



Jorginho 6
Trossard 6
Nelson 6

Nketiah 4
Smith Rowe 4


Well this was largely what we expected wasn’t it?. We know we were up against it because of how Rampant city were, but what rankles is how easy it was for them. Arteta like last season blames the players saying they have to look at themselves in the mirror when he has set them up to fail. This was a team that never believed it wasn’t going to get a pasting.
The parallels between last season and now are astonishing, when adversity hits we hit the wall because the coach trusts certain players too much and certain players not enough.
If we recruit well in central midfield in the summer I believe we will have a very good squad, but it’s one that the coach needs to utilise more.
Saka has played too many games this season, at times he has been brilliant but recently not so good and I don’t believe it would harm him to sit out a few games, he’s a decent lad with strong self belief but without being arrogant with it
We shouldn’t need to sweat on the fitness of William Saliba or Thomas Partey the way we have. We don’t need to play an inverted left back, it made no difference for us in midfield last night.

Arteta for me is a slow learner because of his total self belief, he’s built a team that has excelled this season but if it crumbles when the obstacles emerge it will have been for nothing.

As I said last night, he has earned the right to another season but it does not erase the doubts I have about him especially as the same mistakes have been present and seemingly not addressed.

Next season will be even harder than this one, city are going no where and on top of that United and Newcastle will be much stronger. That plus champions league….if Arteta cannot adapt and continue our progress then it will be time to part ways

:gp:

I agree with almost every word of this post.

[selassie]

:gp:

A sensible take, because it’s largely the same as mine :haha:

;)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dear old Piers Morgan claiming the difference between City and Arsenal is the quality of Pep Guardiola

Not to defend Arteta, but Guardiola has all the virtues and flaws of Arteta….very similar characters temperamentally and tactically.

The difference is at Arsenal, Arteta’s flaws are far more likely to be exposed because you have less room for error than you do if you have top players in every position and a deep squad.

Guardiola has never had to manage a club like Arsenal where he’s having to build a project rather than make improvements to a team that is already full of winners.

If Guardiola was a tactical genius he’d have won the champions league with Man City or Bayern and he hasn’t

And I’m not convinced he will. City show the same emotional flakiness going for the big trophy as we’ve done going for too four and premier league.

[Letters]

However, being so many points clear for most of the season, having our destiny in our hands and then throwing it all away in the same manner we seem to do every season is a bit different.

I feel completely let down now, and us finishing second just seems like a loser mentality to me.
Well, I think that's fair. I mean, we were 8 points clear. But since that City have P13 W11 D1 L1.
We have certainly dropped points where we shouldn't have. But don't all teams do that in every season?
We've also picked up points in games where other seasons we'd have dropped them.
Overall it's been as much City being a relentless machine as us collapsing. The two head to heads have shown the gap between the sides.
They have some of the best players in the league and they can bring players off the bench who would walk into our team.

I am disappointed because there were a couple of moments in the season where I thought the title was possible. But, overall, there's no disgrace in losing the title to City. They're just at a different level to us. And we all know how they got there. Fuck them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, I think that's fair. I mean, we were 8 points clear. But since that City have P13 W11 D1 L1.
We have certainly dropped points where we shouldn't have. But don't all teams do that in every season?
We've also picked up points in games where other seasons we'd have dropped them.
Overall it's been as much City being a relentless machine as us collapsing. The two head to heads have shown the gap between the sides.
They have some of the best players in the league and they can bring players off the bench who would walk into our team.

I am disappointed because there were a couple of moments in the season where I thought the title was possible. But, overall, there's no disgrace in losing the title to City. They're just at a different level to us. And we all know how they got there. Fuck them.

There’s also the fact that in none of our five league titles did we go four games without winning

Two (three at most) tends to be the maximum you can afford and this is even without City

Liverpool I think have the excuse of putting their hands up and saying “what can you do?”. It’s an excuse I don’t think we have going by results this month.

[IBK]

I expected us to get a beating last night, it was a non-contest, we were defeated before a ball was even kicked. Our form and general confidence has pretty much gone and the team we are seeing now is performing like the Arsenal of last season. Arteta certainly has a part to play in this, he is just repeating the same things now with the line up of the team and the tactics, he is expecting to see different results which clearly isn't happening. This team even with everybody fully fit is not good enough to go to City and win, especially a City who are now in top form.

City are great and all that but we have made it very easy for them with our recent form, we have dropped points in unexpected places and have performed way below the level we maintained earlier this season, our form nosedived from the Liverpool game onwards.

Despite the above, it has been a successful season in terms of my personal expectations of the team / squad. To maintain this standard going into next season with the added bonus or headache of CL! We need to invest in real quality, as others have said, 2 CM's, a CB that is good enough to properly challenge for a starting place and possibly a LB if Tierney goes. The squad as it stands is clearly not strong enough to mount a challenge next season in PL and CL, we have to buy ready made players like Rice, Caicedo if we want to maintain this standard going forward.

P.S. Agree with what others have said about Arteta use of the squad, it's become a bit of an issue now, changes most certainly should be made for Chelsea, especially offensively where you could argue 2 of the 3 starting players (Saka and Jesus /or Martinelli) could and should be rotated with the likes of Trossard and Nelson. I would also rotate Jorginho with Partey, Partey has been really bad in this run-in.

Again - an excellent post. And the analysis of Arteta's big weak spot in this thread is spot on. It's so disppointing that we 'armchair' analysts can see that the manager's bullish perseverence with a system that the players have lost some confidence in; is not suited to every single game and has been worked out by other teams over the course of the season - not to mention unsuited for second choice players - but the manager refuses to accept this and change things up. It's also self-defeating that he insists on playing his 'favourites' while potentially able back ups who might at least add a little variety are discounted as starters.


What I would say is that last nigtht was not a time to suddenly change things. West Ham away and Southampton at home should have been used to tweak the system to see whether more protection could have been given for Holding - alternatively leave him out (eg Zinchenko at RB; White at CB and Tierney at LB, and Jorginho alongside Partey) but this opportunity went begging.


We saw this 2 seasons ago - when we started to look so rigid and ineffective and ball progression to our forwards dried up. And we are seeing it again now - albeit with a system that has served us well until it really counted. The players last night need to have a look at themselves, but our collective loss of confidence is not just down to 3 disappointing draws - its the players realising that our set up is flawed and lookign a bit tired. Arteta's refusal to change things up looks passive and fearful, and if our players look scared - which they did last night - this has to a degree been transmitted by Arteta.


One final point. If ever we wanted evidence last night as to why Citeh sold us Jesus and Zinchenko - it was there last night in neon lights. Its lamentable that these so-called 'winners' that were bought to take our team to the next level went hiding last night. The real question is not their talent (albeit that Jesus is showing that he is not a reliable goal scorer), but their mentality. And that is a worry for sure.

[Marc Overmars]

There’s also the fact that in none of our five league titles did we go four games without winning

Two (three at most) tends to be the maximum you can afford and this is even without City

Liverpool I think have the excuse of putting their hands up and saying “what can you do?”. It’s an excuse I don’t think we have going by results this month.

Agreed. Twice hitting 90+ points and not winning it. That’s rough. At no point during those seasons did Liverpool enter a funk like we find ourselves in now. They also gave City a torrid time in the head to heads.

City are a machine but we haven’t covered ourselves in glory here. The “what can you do?” stance lost its credence when we threw away the lead at West Ham and followed that up with a total mess of a performance against the team bottom of the league. What else could we have done? A lot more, actually.

We’ve got 5 games left and the absolute bare minimum aim now is to ensure it isn’t a procession for City. If we stumble through these games and City win it by a big margin that would be hugely disappointing.

[selassie]

There’s also the fact that in none of our five league titles did we go four games without winning

Two (three at most) tends to be the maximum you can afford and this is even without City

Liverpool I think have the excuse of putting their hands up and saying “what can you do?”. It’s an excuse I don’t think we have going by results this month.

I kind of agree with you both, hear me out!

I like Letters have been saying for a while that for us to maintain this title push we need to be near perfect because City are machine like at this point in the season. Their have been numerous reasons why we have fallen short, City's recent form being one of them, but we certainly haven't helped ourselves over the past 4 games. It is why I am starting to lean towards the middle and acknowledge that we have done as much damage ourselves in this title push. When I say damage, i mean some of Arteta's game management, starting XI's, use of the squad, the players mentality, all that kind of stuff.

I agree with what you are saying about Liverpool too, their recent title pushes were near flawless and they looked every bit as good as City for multiple seasons, we at present don't and I can accept that if we do everything in our power to maintain and improve the current group and standard. I would like to think we are in the early stages of this improvement of Arsenal.

[selassie]

Again - an excellent post. And the analysis of Arteta's big weak spot in this thread is spot on. It's so disppointing that we 'armchair' analysts can see that the manager's bullish perseverence with a system that the players have lost some confidence in; is not suited to every single game and has been worked out by other teams over the course of the season - not to mention unsuited for second choice players - but the manager refuses to accept this and change things up. It's also self-defeating that he insists on playing his 'favourites' while potentially able back ups who might at least add a little variety are discounted as starters.


What I would say is that last nigtht was not a time to suddenly change things. West Ham away and Southampton at home should have been used to tweak the system to see whether more protection could have been given for Holding - alternatively leave him out (eg Zinchenko at RB; White at CB and Tierney at LB, and Jorginho alongside Partey) but this opportunity went begging.


We saw this 2 seasons ago - when we started to look so rigid and ineffective and ball progression to our forwards dried up. And we are seeing it again now - albeit with a system that has served us well until it really counted. The players last night need to have a look at themselves, but our collective loss of confidence is not just down to 3 disappointing draws - its the players realising that our set up is flawed and lookign a bit tired. Arteta's refusal to change things up looks passive and fearful, and if our players look scared - which they did last night - this has to a degree been transmitted by Arteta.


One final point. If ever we wanted evidence last night as to why Citeh sold us Jesus and Zinchenko - it was there last night in neon lights. Its lamentable that these so-called 'winners' that were bought to take our team to the next level went hiding last night. The real question is not their talent (albeit that Jesus is showing that he is not a reliable goal scorer), but their mentality. And that is a worry for sure.

:gp:

Especially the bit about Jesus and Zinchenko.

[Letters]

Agreed. Twice hitting 90+ points and not winning it. That’s rough. At no point during those seasons did Liverpool enter a funk like we find ourselves in now. They also gave City a torrid time in the head to heads.

City are a machine but we haven’t covered ourselves in glory here. The “what can you do?” stance lost its credence when we threw away the lead at West Ham and followed that up with a total mess of a performance against the team bottom of the league. What else could we have done? A lot more, actually.

We’ve got 5 games left and the absolute bare minimum aim now is to ensure it isn’t a procession for City. If we stumble through these games and City win it by a big margin that would be hugely disappointing.

I agree with all of that. City have been relentless, but we have dropped points in games where we shouldn't have and made it easier for City to chase us down than it should have been. I can't help feel City would have caught us in the end anyway, but I agree we've stumbled more than we should have.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Le Grove the Arsenal twitter account which is the biggest “trust the process” gimp is being very scathing of Arteta

States that the greatest weakness last night was the space left for De Bruyne where Holding drops off because it’s not tenable for him to hold the high line that Saliba could and Arteta must have known this would happen but made no attempt to address it

[mandela8]

Amazing reading some of the posts on here and other places.

Partey is taking plenty of criticism, and rightly so, as he's been below his usual standard for a while but not one person has mentioned the complete disappearance of Xhaka.

He touched the ball twice, I think in the first half. I've had a wee look for actual stats on this but no joy. I'm happy to be corrected but won't be far off. For a CM that is unforgivable. His first, and literally only meaningful, touch came on the 47th minute with a poor shot. The next time he was involved was an altercation with Haaland. He was then taken off.

I'm all for attributing responsibility (blame) to players like Partey but where's the balance here? I've highlighted the nonsensical standards players are held to on here before but I genuinely think Xhaka's performance last night was the worst I've ever seen from him. And, as we all know, that's a huge claim about someone who has been putting in woeful performances for the best part of a decade.

Partey was exposed badly last night. Let's call it out. But we need to also call out the mitigating circumstances. He was a lone midfielder against a team with 4 CMs, ffs.

[mandela8]

Ramsdale should've saved the first goal anaw. That was just poor keeping from him. He's been terrible lately, despite a couple of decent saves that you'd expect any decent keeper to make.

[mandela8]

Jesus has been absolutely shite anaw. He seems to be everywhere except where a striker should be. I've thought since we signed him that he thinks he a little bigger than the club, tbh.

[Marc Overmars]

I think most of us accept Xhaka is a bum who needs upgrading on.

Players like Partey get singled out because they’re our go-to guys. He’s been one of the key factors in why we’ve been at the top of the league, if we were going to get over the line he was one guy we needed to be at the top of his game.

The only players who’ve been worth a dime recently are Martinelli and Ramsdale, minus that pathetic error against Southampton. We’ve conceded 11 goals in 4 games and it could have been so much worse without his saves.

[mandela8]

Ben White was absolutely appalling, again. One great block doesn't detract from giving the ball away at least 5 or 6 times (something he has a real problem with) and being beaten countless times by Grealish... who'll beat most people most times, in fairness, but it was all a little too easy against White. He seems to have a certain Saka like immunity from criticism among arsenal fans, pundits and press though. He's a terrible player.

[mandela8]

I think most of us accept Xhaka is a bum who needs upgrading on.

Players like Partey get singled out because they’re our go-to guys. He’s been one of the key factors in why we’ve been at the top of the league, if we were going to get over the line he was one guy we needed to be at the top of his game.

The only players who’ve been worth a dime recently are Martinelli and Ramsdale, minus that pathetic error against Southampton. We’ve conceded 11 goals in 4 games and it could have been so much worse without his saves.

I've no real issue with that but surely people recognize that a huge factor in Partey's performance was that he was completely over run due to his partner going AWOL. Xhaka done nothing defensively, no tracking, tackling or positioning and when we had the ball literally hid, reducing the options to further up the field, which is very difficult against Man City.

[Letters]

Ramsdale should've saved the first goal anaw.

Aye. I thought that tbf.
It was well placed but I think he should have saved it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Amazing reading some of the posts on here and other places.

Partey is taking plenty of criticism, and rightly so, as he's been below his usual standard for a while but not one person has mentioned the complete disappearance of Xhaka.

He touched the ball twice, I think in the first half. I've had a wee look for actual stats on this but no joy. I'm happy to be corrected but won't be far off. For a CM that is unforgivable. His first, and literally only meaningful, touch came on the 47th minute with a poor shot. The next time he was involved was an altercation with Haaland. He was then taken off.

I'm all for attributing responsibility (blame) to players like Partey but where's the balance here? I've highlighted the nonsensical standards players are held to on here before but I genuinely think Xhaka's performance last night was the worst I've ever seen from him. And, as we all know, that's a huge claim about someone who has been putting in woeful performances for the best part of a decade.

Partey was exposed badly last night. Let's call it out. But we need to also call out the mitigating circumstances. He was a lone midfielder against a team with 4 CMs, ffs.

At the risk of replying to you in a civil way. Isn’t this more a case of expectation?

Partey has set some high standards for himself this season and if he falls below them he gets criticised. Many of us myself included have been outspoken critics of Xhaka for as long as the fucker has been at the club. His lack of positional discipline, his unwillingness to track back most times, his dawdling, his stupid blind passing, his giving the ball away in dangerous areas. No one is in the least bit surprised when he does it. By his shoddy standards he’s had a good season because he’s been played in a more advanced role and therefore is less required to roll his sleeves up.

But that he was shit last night? Can barely raise my eyebrows to that fact

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ben White was absolutely appalling, again. One great block doesn't detract from giving the ball away at least 5 or 6 times (something he has a real problem with) and being beaten countless times by Grealish... who'll beat most people most times, in fairness, but it was all a little too easy against White. He seems to have a certain Saka like immunity from criticism among arsenal fans, pundits and press though. He's a terrible player.


Really he’s not a right back, he’s done ok in that role but it’s not his natural position but because Captain Black doesn’t get the art of shuffling the pack his three best centre backs have to play each week but one in a role unfamiliar to him

White I think on the whole has had a good season but I don’t think he’s been beyond criticism. He was made to look silly by Grealish and he was made to look silly against Rashford earlier in the season.

Not a terrible player at all, he’s clearly the most comfortable on the ball of all our defenders. But yeah he was shit last night but who wasn’t.

[mandela8]

I think with the league now over and second place pretty secure players like Kiwior, Viera, ESR and Nelson should see extended playing time/starts.

I love Holding but we all know his limitations. I think Kiwior is more Gabriel cover but I don't buy this left/right side CB nonsense. Just let the guy play somewhere.

Viera has been a huge disappointment and the only mitigation (excuse) left is he hasn't had a run of games which these technical players tend to need to find their rhythm.

ESR just needs to play.

Nelson has surprised me and looks really good every time I see him. He's everything Saka is not. Direct, getting to the line and looks to cross or shoot most of his possessions.

I'd love to see more of Tierney, obviously, but not if he's being asked to invert. Just not his game.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah I think the general consensus here is that we absolutely should change things up, and get some playing time for those like Kiwior, Smith Rowe, Nelson, Jorginho and Trossard.

Next season we are going to need to rotate which means our squad needs games. And there are players whatever the view on how good they are who probably need to sit out a few games.

[Mac76]

One final point. If ever we wanted evidence last night as to why Citeh sold us Jesus and Zinchenko - it was there last night in neon lights. Its lamentable that these so-called 'winners' that were bought to take our team to the next level went hiding last night. The real question is not their talent (albeit that Jesus is showing that he is not a reliable goal scorer), but their mentality. And that is a worry for sure.

I said that during the game about Pep, he sold us a couple of players he knew were flawed.

That said, I think Jesus was the single biggest reason we made such a good start to the season, he played with a lot of energy and positivity and the team reacted to it.

But he's starting to wear a bit thin now, partly of course because Arteta doesn't rotate him or anyone else if they're fit.

As for Zinchenko, I've tried to buy into this inverted LB stuff but:

a) it shouldn't be a tactic for every game againat every different side

b) Zinchenko is a little idiot who often gives the ball away, very rarely wins the ball and often slows our play down

C) Tierney shouldn't be made to play in that role, he should be allowed to play to his strengths

Overall I'd say that, because Zinchenko's presence has both encouraged Arteta to endlessly play that same dumb system and because he's not good enough, he's possibly our worst signing since Mustafi

[Marc Overmars]

If Toney didn’t have a ban looming I would definitely suggest trying to sign him. Watkins would also be a good alternative.

We need another source of goals up front. Jesus is a busy body and can make things happen around him but he’s rarely going to be the difference maker. Martinelli is our best forward because he’s a little more selfish and has a nastiness about him. We need a bit more of that from everyone.

Another striker in a different mould would also help change things up in a game when things aren’t working out. Something we lack the ability to do at the moment.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I said that during the game about Pep, he sold us a couple of players he knew were flawed.

That said, I think Jesus was the single biggest reason we made such a good start to the season, he played with a lot of energy and positivity and the team reacted to it.

But he's starting to wear a bit thin now, partly of course because Arteta doesn't rotate him or anyone else if they're fit.

As for Zinchenko, I've tried to buy into this inverted LB stuff but:

a) it shouldn't be a tactic for every game againat every different side

b) Zinchenko is a little idiot who often gives the ball away, very rarely wins the ball and often slows our play down

Overall I'd say that, both because his presence has encouraged Arteta to endlessly play that same dumb system and because he's not good enough, he's possibly our worst signing since Mustafi

I’d argue that Mustafi wasn’t even our worst signing that summer given how we’ve persisted with Xhaka

Mustafi was an interesting one. The guy was a ticking time bomb of excrement…you could play him for a few games and get reasonable solid defensive performances out of him, and then boom and the team are covered in faeces.

But he wasn’t someone who we persisted with, Arteta for all his flaws got rid quite quickly

Zinchenko is fine against certain teams but should never have been our first choice left back and when we signed him I never assumed he would be

I’ve said for ages he’s the equivalent of a left field IPA, a footballer for hipsters

Jesus? Totally anonymous yesterday and I think it’s not unfair to point out that his overall goal contribution even given his injury has been modest to put it generously. I think we need a Giroud type player in the squad to mix it up a bit….I’m still of the view that, that Serbian maniac Mitrovic would be an excellent signing.

But I still like him, he causes defenders to poo themselves but we need someone who gives us more options such as set pieces etc (how many headed goals have we scored this season for instance?)

[HCZ_Reborn]

If Toney didn’t have a ban looming I would definitely suggest trying to sign him. Watkins would also be a good alternative.

We need another source of goals up front. Jesus is a busy body and can make things happen around him but he’s rarely going to be the difference maker. Martinelli is our best forward because he’s a little more selfish and has a nastiness about him. We need a bit more of that from everyone.

Another striker in a different mould would also help change things up in a game when things aren’t working out. Something we lack the ability to do at the moment.

Toney would be decent, but Ollie Watkins is too similar to what we already have. If we want a striker like that…why not just keep Balogun

[KSE Comedy Club]

. And we all know how they got there. Fuck them.

Well yes, that goes without saying tbh!

[IBK]

Amazing reading some of the posts on here and other places.

Partey is taking plenty of criticism, and rightly so, as he's been below his usual standard for a while but not one person has mentioned the complete disappearance of Xhaka.

He touched the ball twice, I think in the first half. I've had a wee look for actual stats on this but no joy. I'm happy to be corrected but won't be far off. For a CM that is unforgivable. His first, and literally only meaningful, touch came on the 47th minute with a poor shot. The next time he was involved was an altercation with Haaland. He was then taken off.

I'm all for attributing responsibility (blame) to players like Partey but where's the balance here? I've highlighted the nonsensical standards players are held to on here before but I genuinely think Xhaka's performance last night was the worst I've ever seen from him. And, as we all know, that's a huge claim about someone who has been putting in woeful performances for the best part of a decade.

Partey was exposed badly last night. Let's call it out. But we need to also call out the mitigating circumstances. He was a lone midfielder against a team with 4 CMs, ffs.

Agree with the (slight) mitigation for Partey in general because (as you point out) he is expected to do the job of 2 players in MF and also (I think) being asked to try to protect Holding. That said he not Holdingwas at fault for their first goal and generally seemed incapable of tracking back all night.


But I think it's also unfair to single out Xhaka. Your criticism is true for all of our 'forward' players. City stifled all service beyond the half way line, and not a single one of our players performed well last night. Like many others, Xhaka is a cog in a machine that was working well until a few matches ago. Our dire performance last night was not down to any single player - it was a collective scared performance where as a team we showed no confidence whatsoever and were beaten before Citeh kicked a ball.


I agree with you emphatically that some of our back up players like Trossard, Jorginho and Nelson deserve to be given starts. They out-performed our so-called first teamers when they came on. I feel sorry also for Nketiah. I was wondering what our win percentage is since the WC with him playing and when Jesus has and (while I am ready to stand corrected), it would not surprise me if it's better with Eddie. Jesus for me is emblematic of Arteta's rigid mindset. The manager has failed to change a system to which Jesus is considered integral, and in the limited opportunities he has had recently, Eddie is expected to be like for like - which he simply isn't. I would like Eddie to be given a chance as starter in a system tewaked to play to his strengths as a box finisher. But no - Jesus plays - more for his supposed 'win at all costs' mentality than his striking ability, and this hasn;t worked recently.


The best teams evolve and their managers (including Pep) take risks in trying something new to keep the opposition on their toes. Yet again, lately we have become predictable, too relient on players whose form is low or who have simply been run into the ground and are on fumes. You don't improve confidence by playing a ludicrously high line when your CB who has done most to allow this previously is out, and your LB is not a LB. You create instablity and panic - and this has affected our whole team.

[HCZ_Reborn]

All this consensus sickens me :haha:

I think the one area we have consensus around is that of all the players that deserves a start it is Reiss Nelson. Never rated him personally, felt he wasn’t strong enough physically but honestly don’t think that’s a problem now. This is a player who for me has tried everything to merit being selected, absolutely fantastic impact substitute and hungry as hell.

Wasn’t particularly fussed if we kept him or not, but now I’m going to put my hands up and say Mac76 was right….I think it’s important we keep him. I don’t see him as necessarily someone who will always start games but I certainly wouldn’t be worried to see him in the starting line up whoever we were playing and I think it will be good for Saka to have that competition.

[mandela8]

Agree with the (slight) mitigation for Partey in general because (as you point out) he is expected to do the job of 2 players in MF and also (I think) being asked to try to protect Holding. That said he not Holdingwas at fault for their first goal and generally seemed incapable of tracking back all night.


But I think it's also unfair to single out Xhaka. Your criticism is true for all of our 'forward' players. City stifled all service beyond the half way line, and not a single one of our players performed well last night. Like many others, Xhaka is a cog in a machine that was working well until a few matches ago. Our dire performance last night was not down to any single player - it was a collective scared performance where as a team we showed no confidence whatsoever and were beaten before Citeh kicked a ball.


I agree with you emphatically that some of our back up players like Trossard, Jorginho and Nelson deserve to be given starts. They out-performed our so-called first teamers when they came on. I feel sorry also for Nketiah. I was wondering what our win percentage is since the WC with him playing and when Jesus has and (while I am ready to stand corrected), it would not surprise me if it's better with Eddie. Jesus for me is emblematic of Arteta's rigid mindset. The manager has failed to change a system to which Jesus is considered integral, and in the limited opportunities he has had recently, Eddie is expected to be like for like - which he simply isn't. I would like Eddie to be given a chance as starter in a system tewaked to play to his strengths as a box finisher. But no - Jesus plays - more for his supposed 'win at all costs' mentality than his striking ability, and this hasn;t worked recently.


The best teams evolve and their managers (including Pep) take risks in trying something new to keep the opposition on their toes. Yet again, lately we have become predictable, too relient on players whose form is low or who have simply been run into the ground and are on fumes. You don't improve confidence by playing a ludicrously high line when your CB who has done most to allow this previously is out, and your LB is not a LB. You create instablity and panic - and this has affected our whole team.

Aye, solid points, man. I think Xhaka deserves extra criticism though. He's a CM, not an attacker, so the isolation/lack of service doesn't cut it for me. I'm not being hyperbolic, that is the single worst performance I've seen from Xhaka. Even when playing poorly a CM can put a foot in or summin and for all the criticism of Partey, he did that at least, with a number of tackles and fouls.

Completely agree on Jesus. I just don't see it. Clearly talented but I don't see how he improves this team/system. Apparently he wanted to be a striker at city. Well why the fuck is he never in the box? Probably because he knows how poor his finishing is. I'd happily see him out on RW and a more typical striker in the middle.

[mandela8]

If Toney didn’t have a ban looming I would definitely suggest trying to sign him. Watkins would also be a good alternative.

We need another source of goals up front. Jesus is a busy body and can make things happen around him but he’s rarely going to be the difference maker. Martinelli is our best forward because he’s a little more selfish and has a nastiness about him. We need a bit more of that from everyone.

Another striker in a different mould would also help change things up in a game when things aren’t working out. Something we lack the ability to do at the moment.

Toney would be great, man. I still like Vlahovic though. Not sure how realistic he is but apparently not been great at Juve. He can be a real focal point type striker, the type others can really play off. That's the type of striker I'd like. We have enough mobility around him...but that's personal preference. Bare minimum is someone I think will take a chance...and I never think Jesus will do that, tbh.

I'd sell one or both of Balagun and Nketiah, if there's offers there. Harsh on Balagun but he's not a player we'd go out and buy, imo.

[Letters]

If Toney didn’t have a ban looming I would definitely suggest trying to sign him. Watkins would also be a good alternative.

We need another source of goals up front. Jesus is a busy body and can make things happen around him but he’s rarely going to be the difference maker. Martinelli is our best forward because he’s a little more selfish and has a nastiness about him. We need a bit more of that from everyone.

Another striker in a different mould would also help change things up in a game when things aren’t working out. Something we lack the ability to do at the moment.

Time for Kane to come home? :cool:


What?
:getcoat:

[dostoy]

[QUOTE=Letters;4573289]Time for Kane to come home? :cool:


I wonder what will happen with him.

It will be fascinating, not that he would come to Arsenal or go to Chelsea.

Will Levy let him go ?

Will he want to stay in England ?

Will he try to force a move ?

Do Man Utd or Liverpool want him ?

In a way I hope he leaves Spuds but in a way I hope he stays and has another poor season.

it will be very interesting.

[Letters]

I have a feeling he'll stay tbh. He doesn't have many options and he seems content to go down the Le Tissier road of being a club legend rather than being a bit ambitious and going somewhere he might win some major trophies.
Which is fine I guess, it's his career.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I have a feeling he'll stay tbh. He doesn't have many options and he seems content to go down the Le Tissier road of being a club legend rather than being a bit ambitious and going somewhere he might win some major trophies.
Which is fine I guess, it's his career.

He will go to Man United, they are going to be bought out by some sports washing, human rights abusing conglomerate and then spend like drunken sailors

[dostoy]

He will go to Man United, they are going to be bought out by some sports washing, human rights abusing conglomerate and then spend like drunken sailors

Maybe, but what if Levy doesn't let him go.

Will he force a move ?

I know he is stupid but surely he is not stupid enough to want to stay and sign a new deal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Maybe, but what if Levy doesn't let him go.

Will he force a move ?

I know he is stupid but surely he is not stupid enough to want to stay and sign a new deal.

He’s going to be 30 in the summer. It’s very likely that it will be Spurs’ last chance of getting a big fee for him. I think Levy will let him go.

[Letters]

It's down to Kane really, but my gut feeling is he'll stay. Utd is certainly an option - possibly the only one.

[Mac76]

Aye, solid points, man. I think Xhaka deserves extra criticism though. He's a CM, not an attacker, so the isolation/lack of service doesn't cut it for me. I'm not being hyperbolic, that is the single worst performance I've seen from Xhaka. Even when playing poorly a CM can put a foot in or summin and for all the criticism of Partey, he did that at least, with a number of tackles and fouls.

Completely agree on Jesus. I just don't see it. Clearly talented but I don't see how he improves this team/system. Apparently he wanted to be a striker at city. Well why the fuck is he never in the box? Probably because he knows how poor his finishing is. I'd happily see him out on RW and a more typical striker in the middle.

agree re Xhaka, my fear was his being sent off (which tbf he did try to do at some point by having yet another pointless row which you could clearly see the City players were trying to provoke him into) but I didn't expect to forget he was on the pitch most of the time

and yes Jesus is far too often out of position - i get bored of seeing us moving the ball forward, looking to see if Jesus is in the box... and then seeing he's halfway back down the pitch

[fakeyank]

I blame Arteta for the manner of yesterday's loss. The fact we were gonna lose was a foregone conclusion but the manner of it makes me angry. Quite why we werent utilizing a different system against City away from home makes no sense? You know that Holding will be bitch slapped by Haaland all over the place, yet we played a high line. Play on the counter, move Partey in CB and play Jorginho in the middle, play 3 at the back etc etc... Arteta went with exactly the system that didnt work the last 3 games before yesterday. Makes no sense!!

Having said that, we have made tremendous strides this season, especially in the quality of our attacking game, so I am going to cut him slack and acknowledge what a great job he has done. He does need to learn though... horses for courses, having a plan B and C is going to be extremely important if we are to even consider that we will be in the title race in the coming seasons.

[IBK]

Aye, solid points, man. I think Xhaka deserves extra criticism though. He's a CM, not an attacker, so the isolation/lack of service doesn't cut it for me. I'm not being hyperbolic, that is the single worst performance I've seen from Xhaka. Even when playing poorly a CM can put a foot in or summin and for all the criticism of Partey, he did that at least, with a number of tackles and fouls.

Completely agree on Jesus. I just don't see it. Clearly talented but I don't see how he improves this team/system. Apparently he wanted to be a striker at city. Well why the fuck is he never in the box? Probably because he knows how poor his finishing is. I'd happily see him out on RW and a more typical striker in the middle.

Fair enough re Xhaka - but in mitigation maybe he was still feeling the effects of the illness that kept him out against Southampton (where we clearly missed him).

And I agree 100% that we need a Toney type striker...and that Jesus should be tried out wide. In the meantime I would try Eddie up front next game. I agree also that we should cash in on Balogun. He may be better than Edddie but Eddie has shown he can do it as a second striker while Balogun is an unknown quality in the EPL - despite doing well in a weaker league. We will get more for Balogun right now, IMO.

[IBK]

I blame Arteta for the manner of yesterday's loss. The fact we were gonna lose was a foregone conclusion but the manner of it makes me angry. Quite why we werent utilizing a different system against City away from home makes no sense? You know that Holding will be bitch slapped by Haaland all over the place, yet we played a high line. Play on the counter, move Partey in CB and play Jorginho in the middle, play 3 at the back etc etc... Arteta went with exactly the system that didnt work the last 3 games before yesterday. Makes no sense!!

Having said that, we have made tremendous strides this season, especially in the quality of our attacking game, so I am going to cut him slack and acknowledge what a great job he has done. He does need to learn though... horses for courses, having a plan B and C is going to be extremely important if we are to even consider that we will be in the title race in the coming seasons.

Been wondering about the lack of plan B and C. Arteta is not stupid, and he will be able to read the game infinitely better than we can. He saw the potential for Ben White at RB. He played a masterstroke with Tomi at LB in the Liverpool game at home. While the inverted LB role with Zinchenko has let us down recently, for most of the season it was key to our ability to overload the opposition. We thought that he hated Martinelli at one point in time, but under Arteta he has become one of the most lethal wide attackers in the league - and found his scoring boots. I'm kind of thinking that we are seeing something similar to 2 seasons ago when we were rigid as hell and too predictable, but this laid the foundation for a mobile attacking unit once we upgraded our players. He seems stubbornly wedded to a system now, but maybe this is the basis for a further evolution once we upgrade again over the Summer?

[mandela8]

Fair enough re Xhaka - but in mitigation maybe he was still feeling the effects of the illness that kept him out against Southampton (where we clearly missed him).

And I agree 100% that we need a Toney type striker...and that Jesus should be tried out wide. In the meantime I would try Eddie up front next game. I agree also that we should cash in on Balogun. He may be better than Edddie but Eddie has shown he can do it as a second striker while Balogun is an unknown quality in the EPL - despite doing well in a weaker league. We will get more for Balogun right now, IMO.

I take a bit of issue with this notion that we missed Xhaka against Southampton. Viera being shit does not validate Xhaka in any way whatsoever, imo. We had Xhaka for Liverpool, West Ham and Man City and failed to win any of them. Xhaka is a very limited player and this team will never achieve notable success with his likes as mainstays. Last night being the perfect demonstration of why.

[fakeyank]

Been wondering about the lack of plan B and C. Arteta is not stupid, and he will be able to read the game infinitely better than we can. He saw the potential for Ben White at RB. He played a masterstroke with Tomi at LB in the Liverpool game at home. While the inverted LB role with Zinchenko has let us down recently, for most of the season it was key to our ability to overload the opposition. We thought that he hated Martinelli at one point in time, but under Arteta he has become one of the most lethal wide attackers in the league - and found his scoring boots. I'm kind of thinking that we are seeing something similar to 2 seasons ago when we were rigid as hell and too predictable, but this laid the foundation for a mobile attacking unit once we upgraded our players. He seems stubbornly wedded to a system now, but maybe this is the basis for a further evolution once we upgrade again over the Summer?

Thats what I'd like to think, but what are the chances we will be in a real position to challenge for the title again soon? My "glass half empty" view is that we missed a tremendous opportunity. We shouldve evolved or done whatever evolution was needed this season. I think next season is too late...

[fakeyank]

I take a bit of issue with this notion that we missed Xhaka against Southampton. Viera being shit does not validate Xhaka in any way whatsoever, imo. We had Xhaka for Liverpool, West Ham and Man City and failed to win any of them. Xhaka is a very limited player and this team will never achieve notable success with his likes as mainstays. Last night being the perfect demonstration of why.

Tielemens for free is a no brainer tbf.. he hasnt been at his best this season but I put that down to not wanting to play for Leicester anymore.

[IBK]

I take a bit of issue with this notion that we missed Xhaka against Southampton. Viera being shit does not validate Xhaka in any way whatsoever, imo. We had Xhaka for Liverpool, West Ham and Man City and failed to win any of them. Xhaka is a very limited player and this team will never achieve notable success with his likes as mainstays. Last night being the perfect demonstration of why.

I respect your opinion but I am of (a minority on here) view that Xhaka is a lightening rod for disaffection with our team. He has been an important part of a team that has done so well this season (but dipped recently). That's not to excuse him for an anonymous performance on Wednesday - and there is hardly a member of the team that played well - but this may have been contributed to by the fact that he had been unwell previously.

I've said before that we can upgrade on the player, but we have come close to success with him as a mainstay of this team and I think that there are several others in it who could be subject to your comment about never achieving noteable success...including Jesus (as a striker at least).

[Chippy]

Ramsdale 8 - You wonder what it could have been if he hadn’t made so many saves


White 5 - Decent goal line clearance at 1-0 otherwise ineffective


Holding 4. Not his fault but when you play him in a system like ours against Man City he will be badly exposed. Given him a 4 because he scored


Gabriel 5 - Couldn’t do much but has suffered without a decent centre back partner


Zinchenko 3 - Embarassing



Partey 5 - Badly shown up last night, dispossessed constantly and isolated



Xhaka 4 - His usual dawdling



Odegaard 3 - For all the good performances he’s put in, doesn’t turn up in important away games


Martinelli 4 - Isolated as per usual


Jesus 4- Did he play because don’t remember seeing him


Saka 4 - As much penetration as a marshmallow phallus



Jorginho 6
Trossard 6
Nelson 6

Nketiah 4
Smith Rowe 4


Well this was largely what we expected wasn’t it?. We know we were up against it because of how Rampant city were, but what rankles is how easy it was for them. Arteta like last season blames the players saying they have to look at themselves in the mirror when he has set them up to fail. This was a team that never believed it wasn’t going to get a pasting.
The parallels between last season and now are astonishing, when adversity hits we hit the wall because the coach trusts certain players too much and certain players not enough.
If we recruit well in central midfield in the summer I believe we will have a very good squad, but it’s one that the coach needs to utilise more.
Saka has played too many games this season, at times he has been brilliant but recently not so good and I don’t believe it would harm him to sit out a few games, he’s a decent lad with strong self belief but without being arrogant with it
We shouldn’t need to sweat on the fitness of William Saliba or Thomas Partey the way we have. We don’t need to play an inverted left back, it made no difference for us in midfield last night.

Arteta for me is a slow learner because of his total self belief, he’s built a team that has excelled this season but if it crumbles when the obstacles emerge it will have been for nothing.

As I said last night, he has earned the right to another season but it does not erase the doubts I have about him especially as the same mistakes have been present and seemingly not addressed.

Next season will be even harder than this one, city are going no where and on top of that United and Newcastle will be much stronger. That plus champions league….if Arteta cannot adapt and continue our progress then it will be time to part ways

The most annoying thing about Arteta is that he will not try and change the team around! It was the same set up as the last three games where we dropped so many points. Gabriel and Holding are a terrible pairing. Why not stick Ben White in there and move Partey back? Just try something different FFS.
Xhaka, Partey, Holding, Tommi and Gabriel should start the summer clear out.

[mandela8]

I respect your opinion but I am of (a minority on here) view that Xhaka is a lightening rod for disaffection with our team. He has been an important part of a team that has done so well this season (but dipped recently). That's not to excuse him for an anonymous performance on Wednesday - and there is hardly a member of the team that played well - but this may have been contributed to by the fact that he had been unwell previously.

I've said before that we can upgrade on the player, but we have come close to success with him as a mainstay of this team and I think that there are several others in it who could be subject to your comment about never achieving noteable success...including Jesus (as a striker at least).

Fair enough, man. Mental to me, but fair enough. From a purely footballing perspective it just blows my mind that there's people out there who can't see how inferior he is to those around him. Just the way he takes the ball and transitions, the slowness of it, his decisions with the ball and how basic they are. Just his general lack of fluidity and comfort on the ball. He's just so limited and one of my major hardon reason for Partey is that we've been so close despite the burden of carrying Xhaka this far.

Agreed on Jesus though. Always good to end on a positive, mate ha.

[Mac76]

The most annoying thing about Arteta is that he will not try and change the team around! It was the same set up as the last three games where we dropped so many points. Gabriel and Holding are a terrible pairing. Why not stick Ben White in there and move Partey back? Just try something different FFS.
Xhaka, Partey, Holding, Tommi and Gabriel should start the summer clear out.

Xhaka and Holding yes, we should also lose Zinchenko and Eddie but don't agree on Tomi, he had Salah in his pocket in the home game against Liverpool and is versatile

Also Gabriel is a good defender but like Kos in the past he's having to cover for other's mistakes - he's got Xhaka. Partey (who's in dreadful form but we should keep him as a backup DM) and Zin in front of him ffs, give the guy a break

[HCZ_Reborn]

The most annoying thing about Arteta is that he will not try and change the team around! It was the same set up as the last three games where we dropped so many points. Gabriel and Holding are a terrible pairing. Why not stick Ben White in there and move Partey back? Just try something different FFS.
Xhaka, Partey, Holding, Tommi and Gabriel should start the summer clear out.

Don’t know about massive exodus of players like that, and don’t at all agree about moving on Partey, Gabriel or Tomoyasu

Viera, Holding, Zinchenko, Elneny and Xhaka are the players I’d like to see gone…and Lokonga….utterly useless

Frankly for me the priority in the summer should be central midfield. If it were me I’d bring in Caicedo to alternate with Partey in the number 6 role and bring in Tielemans at number 8 and either bring in another one or give Charlie Patino a chance (not sure he is that kind of midfielder though)

[Mac76]

I'd rather have Elneny in midfield than Partey in his current form for sure - very solid reliable sensible player - we could do with a few more of those...

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'd rather have Elneny in midfield than Partey in his current form for sure - very solid reliable sensible player - we could do with a few more of those...

No chance, Partey even playing shit is more reliable than a player who for all his stature seems to have no physical strength, no ability on the ball, easily dispossessed etc.

Should have been sold in the summer

[Mac76]

No chance, Partey even playing shit is more reliable than a player who for all his stature seems to have no physical strength, no ability on the ball, easily dispossessed etc.

Should have been sold in the summer

all completely incorrect, I think you're thinking of Sambi

[HCZ_Reborn]

all completely incorrect, I think you're thinking of Sambi

No I’m thinking of myriad away games where he’s started and we’ve been pressed to death and couldn’t even get out of our own defensive third. We all blame Xhaka but this has happened in games where Elneny has played and Xhaka hasn’t.

Honestly he’s the worst player on the ball at the club, any pressing from another team and he goes to pieces quicker than you after a 2-2 draw at Anfield

[mandela8]

I'd rather have Elneny in midfield than Partey in his current form for sure - very solid reliable sensible player - we could do with a few more of those...

Ok.

You need to take a break, man.

Step away from the keyboard and lie down, ffs.

[Mac76]

Ok.

You need to take a break, man.

Step away from the keyboard and lie down, ffs.

I know what i've seen, Elneny has been constantly underrated - not every good player is a flashy showy player - i guess you've all forgotten what a good job he did at the end of last season, which is why we kept him btw

[IBK]

I know what i've seen, Elneny has been constantly underrated - not every good player is a flashy showy player - i guess you've all forgotten what a good job he did at the end of last season, which is why we kept him btw

Elneny is a 3rd choice DCM. He is an experienced player who has to be content with sitting on the bench and filling in when injuries or circumstances require it. His wages are low. He is unspectaculer but generally solid and dependable; he seems to be able to play from 'cold' in terms of match time, and he never loses his head. Given these parameters, as you say I am really struggling to think what 'upgrade' would be content with his role, or why getting rid of him is of particular benefit to our team.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I know what i've seen, Elneny has been constantly underrated - not every good player is a flashy showy player - i guess you've all forgotten what a good job he did at the end of last season, which is why we kept him btw

Oh I remember what he did alright. Especially in the games like Spurs and Newcastle away where we had zero control in the middle of the park.

In a way I do understand that he’s a player that can be brought on to sit in front of the defence and break things up….but when you need some level of control of the ball in the middle of the park when a game is at 0-0 away from home…yeah not so good

[IBK]

This from Lewis Ambrose's Tactics column on Arseblog:

If Partey didn’t push to press, City found gaps to play through Arsenal all the same. These players are fluent in Guardiola’s language in a way that Arsenal aren’t in Arteta’s yet. They can make these tweaks because they know exactly what to do and how it will play out. You can see from his constant barking of orders on the touchline that Arteta does not believe his players yet know how to adapt.
Guardiola saw Arsenal’s high press coming from a mile off and Arteta did not adjust. We should remember he is still a young manager and Guardiola is (in)famous for making errors in big games even now. Maybe in time Arteta will get there when it comes to tweaking. And even with a better gameplan on Wednesday, it’s hard to see how an Arsenal side that couldn’t string passes together or compete physically would have stood a chance. Maybe there was a golden bullet solution Arteta couldn’t see. Maybe this result was inevitable anyway.


Food for thought...

[HCZ_Reborn]

This from Lewis Ambrose's Tactics column on Arseblog:

If Partey didn’t push to press, City found gaps to play through Arsenal all the same. These players are fluent in Guardiola’s language in a way that Arsenal aren’t in Arteta’s yet. They can make these tweaks because they know exactly what to do and how it will play out. You can see from his constant barking of orders on the touchline that Arteta does not believe his players yet know how to adapt.
Guardiola saw Arsenal’s high press coming from a mile off and Arteta did not adjust. We should remember he is still a young manager and Guardiola is (in)famous for making errors in big games even now. Maybe in time Arteta will get there when it comes to tweaking. And even with a better gameplan on Wednesday, it’s hard to see how an Arsenal side that couldn’t string passes together or compete physically would have stood a chance. Maybe there was a golden bullet solution Arteta couldn’t see. Maybe this result was inevitable anyway.


Food for thought...


Speaking for myself a 1-0 defeat where we’ve put everything into it, is no real different to me than a 4-1 defeat where City were able to win ridiculously easy. And ultimately I think the issue against City is the issue I’ve constantly raised about our central midfield.
You say that Xhaka is a lightning Rod, but ultimately how can he not be when we know that even when by his standards he’s had a decent season he’s not good enough for us to go toe to toe with City/Liverpool …Partey for all his flaws in the last few weeks probably is but without a midfield partner at his level it’s all for nought.

I think Guardiola as this master tactician is massively overstated, he has always been at clubs where he’s able to afford top oven ready professionals rather than polish rough diamonds. Odegaard has been in my opinion our most improved player this season yet he still doesn’t look quite at the level where we can go away to city or Liverpool and do what he does in other games…he retreats and becomes anonymous. He’s only 24, maybe he will become that player I don’t know.

But ultimately this comes down to central midfield being the main area of focus for squad reinforcement in the summer

[mandela8]

I know what i've seen, Elneny has been constantly underrated - not every good player is a flashy showy player - i guess you've all forgotten what a good job he did at the end of last season, which is why we kept him btw

When we blew 4th place??

Look, Elneny is fuckin shite. The most basic of water carriers/ball movers. This is one of the absolutes in fitba. I won't even dignify this further, tbh.

[Marc Overmars]

Even if we had a fit Saliba and went into the game in a rich vein of form, I think Man City would have been comfortable favourites anyway. Absolutely no one could present a believable case for Arsenal winning this game.

There is quite simply a gulf in class at the moment, not just with Arsenal but the rest of the league and possibly Europe too. I don’t respect anything they’ve achieved and will continue to achieve but it’s hard to question just how strong of a team they are.

[Marc Overmars]

When we blew 4th place??

Look, Elneny is fuckin shite. The most basic of water carriers/ball movers. This is one of the absolutes in fitba. I won't even dignify this further, tbh.

Yeah the guy is the same as Holding. Just a good guy kept around for morale. Under no circumstances should he ever be considered an option unless it’s just some dead game where the outcome is of no consequence.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Even if we had a fit Saliba and went into the game in a rich vein of form, I think Man City would have been comfortable favourites anyway. Absolutely no one could present a believable case for Arsenal winning this game.

There is quite simply a gulf in class at the moment, not just with Arsenal but the rest of the league and possibly Europe too. I don’t respect anything they’ve achieved and will continue to achieve but it’s hard to question just how strong of a team they are.

I think that gulf in class is largely in central midfield.


I think if we agree our best defensive set up is Tierney, Gabriel, Saliba and White…now even allowing for the fact that White is not a right back I think person for person that’s just as good as any of City’s defenders.

Ederson is better than Ramsdale yes but wouldn’t say gulf in class there


Martinelli, Saka are just as good if not better than Grealish, Bernardo Silva


Partey is probably better than Rodri


But then we have Xhaka….ugh until we improve there it does make it a problem for any attempt to go toe to toe with City.

Yes even after that they’ve got that abominable freak of nature Haaland, and Odegaard as good as he’s been is never going to be at the level of Kevin de Bruyne (no slight on Odegaard, De Bruyne is one of the best players in the world)

But Saliba instead of Holding at centre back, and a proper central midfield…yeah I think we would have been competitive on Wednesday

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah the guy is the same as Holding. Just a good guy kept around for morale. Under no circumstances should he ever be considered an option unless it’s just some dead game where the outcome is of no consequence.

Exactly

We have finite resources and I don’t think room should be made on the wage bill for mascots. Holding and Elneny are by all accounts well liked…..and they do both seem humble and hard working. But humble and hard working are words that should be engraved on the rotary watch you’ve been given as a retirement present by the accounts firm you’ve worked at for 30 years. In football it means shit

[Mac76]

Elneny is a 3rd choice DCM. He is an experienced player who has to be content with sitting on the bench and filling in when injuries or circumstances require it. His wages are low. He is unspectaculer but generally solid and dependable; he seems to be able to play from 'cold' in terms of match time, and he never loses his head. Given these parameters, as you say I am really struggling to think what 'upgrade' would be content with his role, or why getting rid of him is of particular benefit to our team.

This

[HCZ_Reborn]

This

We already have a 3rd choice DCM in Jorginho

We have finite space on our wage bill and that should go to recruiting someone like Caicedo to make sure there isn’t a massive drop off in quality when Partey is injured.

Absolutely no justification for keeping him in my mind

[mandela8]

Even if we had a fit Saliba and went into the game in a rich vein of form, I think Man City would have been comfortable favourites anyway. Absolutely no one could present a believable case for Arsenal winning this game.

There is quite simply a gulf in class at the moment, not just with Arsenal but the rest of the league and possibly Europe too. I don’t respect anything they’ve achieved and will continue to achieve but it’s hard to question just how strong of a team they are.
Aye, this is the crux of it.

Of our team, on its best day, not one single player gets in the City line up. Only Partey is close but Rodri is incredible.

That's a huge gulf. Frankly, I'm not sure anyone else even makes their bench. Odegaard, maybe.

[Mac76]

Aye, this is the crux of it.

Of our team, on its best day, not one single player gets in the City line up. Only Partey is close but Rodri is incredible.

That's a huge gulf. Frankly, I'm not sure anyone else even makes their bench. Odegaard, maybe.

don't agree, i think Martinelli, Saka (though he does tend to drift out of games), Saliba, Ram are worthy of consideration, hell I'd even make a case for Trossard

not Partey though, anyone who can dip that far in form isn't eligible

[IBK]

We already have a 3rd choice DCM in Jorginho

We have finite space on our wage bill and that should go to recruiting someone like Caicedo to make sure there isn’t a massive drop off in quality when Partey is injured.

Absolutely no justification for keeping him in my mind

Fair enough if we recruit both Caceido and Rice but I'm extremely sceptical that we will do so while getting in the necessary top class CB; RB and striker. Jorginho was acquired to fill in for partey IIRC. Alls I'm saying is that behind Partey; Jarginho and (hopefully) Rice, I don't see how we are going to improve on Elneny as a bench warmer...

[Marc Overmars]

don't agree, i think Martinelli, Saka (though he does tend to drift out of games), Saliba, Ram are worthy of consideration, hell I'd even make a case for Trossard

not Partey though, anyone who can dip that far in form isn't eligible

Ramsdale is not at Edersons level.

Saliba possibly but Stones and Dias are extremely good.

Grealish and Mahrez are also beasts. Saka and Martinelli have mostly been great but there are levels to this here. You’re comparing players who’ve achieved the square root of nothing to proven winners.

[mandela8]

don't agree, i think Martinelli, Saka (though he does tend to drift out of games), Saliba, Ram are worthy of consideration, hell I'd even make a case for Trossard

not Partey though, anyone who can dip that far in form isn't eligible

I love Martinelli but Grealish has been phenomenal this season. He's Keeping Foden on the bench a lot of the time. Bernardo Silva is absolutely elite. Saka simply doest even compete here. Saka doesn't even compete with Mahrez, who backs up Silva. Saliba not even close the consistency required and Ramsdale maybe makes the bench. Trossard is ahead of Martinelli but still not on Man City level. Who from Grealish, Foden, KDB, Silva, Gundagon does he replace? Not a slight on Trossard, at all.

You e absolutely lost the plot on Partey. Just stop posting about him, mate. You're embarrassing yourself.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fair enough if we recruit both Caceido and Rice but I'm extremely sceptical that we will do so while getting in the necessary top class CB; RB and striker. Jorginho was acquired to fill in for partey IIRC. Alls I'm saying is that behind Partey; Jarginho and (hopefully) Rice, I don't see how we are going to improve on Elneny as a bench warmer...

Why would we need both of them?

You have Partey as DCM 1 and Caicedo (Don’t like or rate Rice) as DCM 2 and have Jorginho as backup. For the no 6 role that’s all you need

[Mac76]

Ramsdale is not at Edersons level.

Saliba possibly but Stones and Dias are extremely good.

Grealish and Mahrez are also beasts. Saka and Martinelli have mostly been great but there are levels to this here. You’re comparing players who’ve achieved the square root of nothing to proven winners.

sure no argument with that, but talent-wise i think they are there or thereabouts, although as i say Saka needs more consistency

btw got to say i don't doubt Grealish's talent but i really can't stand the fucker

[HCZ_Reborn]

sure no argument with that, but talent-wise i think they are there or thereabouts, although as i say Saka needs more consistency

btw got to say i don't doubt Grealish's talent but i really can't stand the fucker


I think Martinelli is better than Grealish, Bernardo Silva can play on the right but it’s not his natural position so don’t think you’re even comparing like for like with Saka.


But as we know our deal Alba friend has a hate boner for Saka and isn’t particularly fond of Martinelli even though they are our two best players. Partey is our most important player because the standard of our central midfield makes him irreplaceable.

Apart from Haaland who is the best striker in the world currently (and by a clear mile) it is only central midfield where the real gulf in quality lies

[mandela8]

Fair enough if we recruit both Caceido and Rice but I'm extremely sceptical that we will do so while getting in the necessary top class CB; RB and striker. Jorginho was acquired to fill in for partey IIRC. Alls I'm saying is that behind Partey; Jarginho and (hopefully) Rice, I don't see how we are going to improve on Elneny as a bench warmer...

Jorginho will be sold, surely? Was just a stop gap and players like him, on his money, can't be kept around the squad. That's what people like Elneny are for, I'd have though, at least.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Doubt it, his contract is until 2024. I doubt we’d get much money for him so easier to keep him for a year and then he will sod off back to Italy of his own accord.

Would rather have him than Elneny

[Chippy]

Jorginho will be sold, surely? Was just a stop gap and players like him, on his money, can't be kept around the squad. That's what people like Elneny are for, I'd have though, at least.

Jorginho is a useful squad player. I would keep him. Off topic, why has Arteta given up on ESR? He is better than Viera FFS.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Jorginho is a useful squad player. I would keep him. Off topic, why has Arteta given up on ESR? He is better than Viera FFS.

He is but that’s not really a high bar. I’d sell both of them personally.

[mandela8]

Jorginho is a useful squad player. I would keep him. Off topic, why has Arteta given up on ESR? He is better than Viera FFS.

I'm naw sure he's on squad player money though. I can't see him being kept around...maybe he will and they'll focus recruitment on Xhaka's replacement rather than cover for Partey.

The Teilemans is a funny one. I'm sure he's not short of offers. I know Man Utd fans almost expect him there, which also makes sense.

I don't rate Rice and really haven't seen enough of Caciedo or the Ajax boy Ornstein mentioned as in the 4 (Tielemens wasn't in there).

ESR is just a fitness issue, naw?

[Mac76]

We'll keep Jorginho until the end of his contract, we only took him on for 18 months and as Chippy says he's a useful squad player

I'd be tempted to sell ESR, I don't think he's going to make it at Arsenal tbh, too much of an in-and-out luxery player, often gets injured etc

I'd definitely sign Caicedo, he's very good, also Rice as I think he can play furtere forward in the Xhaka role

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sorry to interrupt the kumbaya singing (yeah I'm still feeling grumpy), but saw this and couldn't help but share as there are just too many parallels with aspects of the Bucks season and what we've gone through.....and yes, Giannis passionate post match response (start the video around 1.20) is probably the most brilliant I've ever heard a modern athlete be and would give even the most despondent of fans hope..... HOWEVER the discussion the legends have at the end, especially Shaqs views, is more in line with what I would agree with.

My opinion BTW.


https://youtu.be/UaECvvnk_wU

[Marc Overmars]

I would say that by definition it is failure. Regardless of what our goal was at the start of the season, it evolved into something else and sadly we’ve failed (barring a miracle) to achieve that. It’s not deep, people just allow themselves to get triggered by phrases like failure, bottled it etc as they’re often used a source of mockery without perspective or context.

I do agree though with the idea that it’s a constant process and people tend to only look at the outcome and ignore the journey. History won’t remember that Arsenal overachieved this season and were hugely entertaining to watch. Yet most Arsenal fans while gutted will still remain satisfied with the season given where we’ve been for years prior to this.

[LDG]

I would say that by definition it is failure. Regardless of what our goal was at the start of the season, it evolved into something else and sadly we’ve failed (barring a miracle) to achieve that. It’s not deep, people just allow themselves to get triggered by phrases like failure, bottled it etc as they’re often used a source of mockery without perspective or context.

I do agree though with the idea that it’s a constant process and people tend to only look at the outcome and ignore the journey. History won’t remember that Arsenal overachieved this season and were hugely entertaining to watch. Yet most Arsenal fans while gutted will still remain satisfied with the season given where we’ve been for years prior to this.

Agree. But if you had your head screwed on, the safe bet was for City tonryn away at some point because, lets face it, money has made perfection or close to, possible. You can’t compete with that.

All we have to look within and say, is learn. Watch what Pep did and learn. You cannot have one plan. You have to have a team ready to change every game

[Letters]

Having De Bruyne and Haaland in the same team is surely cheating.
And they have players sitting on the bench who would walk into our team.
City brought on Mahrez and World Cup winner Alvarez on Wednesday. :lol: :shrug:
The smart money was always on inexperience and lack of squad depth costing us and so it’s proved.
I’m disappointed we didn’t push them harder, the slips recently haven’t been good enough. But City have P13 WL D1 L1 since we were 8 points clear of them. They’re a relentless machine, you have to be basically perfect to beat them.
And for all the slips, there are other games where we have dug out results or won late to turn 1 point in to 3. The big thing which we have to sort out if we want a chance is the fact City have our number. That’s a 12 point swing between us winning both the head to heads and them. Even draws in those two games and we’d be winning the league. It’s become a psychological thing now. They know they’re going to beat us, we know we are going to lose. We have to break that run to have a chance next year.

[mandela8]

Agree. But if you had your head screwed on, the safe bet was for City tonryn away at some point because, lets face it, money has made perfection or close to, possible. You can’t compete with that.

All we have to look within and say, is learn. Watch what Pep did and learn. You cannot have one plan. You have to have a team ready to change every game

Pep changed his system for this game too, remember.
Walker has been out in the cold with Stones or the young boy (can't mind his name) playing RB and inverting from there.
Martinelli is such a threat Pep brought Walker back in for this. THAT is the difference between the two managers. Pep adapts , Arteta doesn't. Not that it always works for Pep, as we've seen him mess it up in Europe...but Arteta doesn't even try. Same set up for each of 4 games without a win. Mental.

[Mac76]

Pep changed his system for this game too, remember.
Walker has been out in the cold with Stones or the young boy (can't mind his name) playing RB and inverting from there.
Martinelli is such a threat Pep brought Walker back in for this. THAT is the difference between the two managers. Pep adapts , Arteta doesn't. Not that it always works for Pep, as we've seen him mess it up in Europe...but Arteta doesn't even try. Same set up for each of 4 games without a win. Mental.

Yup

[Globalgunner]

Arteta is much more a Wenger disciple than a Pep Protégé. Cautious to a calamitous fault. Once he hits on a formula or mix of players that works. He will rinse and repeat until one of the components gets injured or in the case of Xhaka gets enough red or yellow cards to warrant some time out. Next season will not even be half as enthralling as this one was.

[Mac76]

Just take a look at what De Zerbi did today - he left Mitoma, MacAllister, Caicedo and Buonanotte on the bench and Brighton still ran riot, ok it's 'only Wolves' but given we couldn't even beat Saints it shows that a good manager rotates his players and can still get a good result

[mandela8]

Arteta is much more a Wenger disciple than a Pep Protégé. Cautious to a calamitous fault. Once he hits on a formula or mix of players that works. He will rinse and repeat until one of the components gets injured or in the case of Xhaka gets enough red or yellow cards to warrant some time out. Next season will not even be half as enthralling as this one was.

Something Arteta said a long time ago still gives me hope. When talking about the shape of the team when we were playing a rigid 4 2 3 1 he said we didn't have the players /experience to go more progressive. I didn't quite believe him but he did change it to more of a 4 1 2 3. So, I do hope that big purchases like they tried to make in January are what's required to move us forward again to an even more fluid and progressive system. Depaite his faith in players like White, Xhaka and Saka I just don't see how he can see what the rest of us do, in terms of obvious improvements. Obviously most of you are blinded by favoritism in some of that but hopefully there's objectivity within the club that isn't present within the ignorance of most of the fan base/this board.

[mandela8]

Sorry to interrupt the kumbaya singing (yeah I'm still feeling grumpy), but saw this and couldn't help but share as there are just too many parallels with aspects of the Bucks season and what we've gone through.....and yes, Giannis passionate post match response (start the video around 1.20) is probably the most brilliant I've ever heard a modern athlete be and would give even the most despondent of fans hope..... HOWEVER the discussion the legends have at the end, especially Shaqs views, is more in line with what I would agree with.

My opinion BTW.


https://youtu.be/UaECvvnk_wU

That was a great response, man. Giannis an absolute G.

Definitely offers a great perspective.



Go Heat!!!

[Chippy]

Pep changed his system for this game too, remember.
Walker has been out in the cold with Stones or the young boy (can't mind his name) playing RB and inverting from there.
Martinelli is such a threat Pep brought Walker back in for this. THAT is the difference between the two managers. Pep adapts , Arteta doesn't. Not that it always works for Pep, as we've seen him mess it up in Europe...but Arteta doesn't even try. Same set up for each of 4 games without a win. Mental.

This.
I have said it in previous posts about Arteta not even trying to change things around. If we set up the same every time, the element of surprise never appears. Pep must have been laughing.

[fakeyank]

Wait.. I just saw posts on here wanting Zinchenko to be offloaded. Are we in la la land here? Man has been immense for most of the season. His defensive side can be shored up but he is an absolute beast of a player.

Partey is another one.. he has been shit over the last one month but he has been one of our best players this season. The players who need shipped and/or loaned out are: Vieira, Holding, Xhaka, ESR, Nketiah. ESR has lots of potential, so he is the only one who I would keep next season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Wait.. I just saw posts on here wanting Zinchenko to be offloaded. Are we in la la land here? Man has been immense for most of the season. His defensive side can be shored up but he is an absolute beast of a player.

Partey is another one.. he has been shit over the last one month but he has been one of our best players this season. The players who need shipped and/or loaned out are: Vieira, Holding, Xhaka, ESR, Nketiah. ESR has lots of potential, so he is the only one who I would keep next season.


Mate he’s shit. Needs too many touches all the time and he’s always absent when attacks come down the right. It’s an utter joke that we had a capable left back and instead of signing someone as back up because of Tierney’s proneness to injury we buy a Man City cast off who has cost us more goals than any other player this season

Selling him might be fanciful but only because no club in their right mind would sell him

[Mac76]

Mate he’s shit. Needs too many touches all the time and he’s always absent when attacks come down the right. It’s an utter joke that we had a capable left back and instead of signing someone as back up because of Tierney’s proneness to injury we buy a Man City cast off who has cost us more goals than any other player this season

Selling him might be fanciful but only because no club in their right mind would sell him

couldn't have put it better myself except i think you mean "...no club in their right mind would buy him?"

[HCZ_Reborn]

couldn't have put it better myself except i think you mean "...no club in their right mind would buy him?"

I’ve been out drinking this afternoon…it’s a miracle I was able to construct a coherent paragraph

[IBK]

Wait.. I just saw posts on here wanting Zinchenko to be offloaded. Are we in la la land here? Man has been immense for most of the season. His defensive side can be shored up but he is an absolute beast of a player.

Partey is another one.. he has been shit over the last one month but he has been one of our best players this season. The players who need shipped and/or loaned out are: Vieira, Holding, Xhaka, ESR, Nketiah. ESR has lots of potential, so he is the only one who I would keep next season.

Plus by being frozen out this season ESR has seen his value plummet so we would be selling him at the very worst time if we get rid.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Plus by being frozen out this season ESR has seen his value plummet so we would be selling him at the very worst time if we get rid.

Simply being English gives him a valuation of about 40 million and that’s what a club like Aston Villa would pay for him

Realistically we won’t get more than that, because he isn’t that good….no real pace, ok technically but nothing special.

I think the goals he scored last season give him the impression of being anything more than an average player, and I think would do well to sell him before he’s found out

[Mac76]

Simply being English gives him a valuation of about 40 million and that’s what a club like Aston Villa would pay for him

Realistically we won’t get more than that, because he isn’t that good….no real pace, ok technically but nothing special.

I think the goals he scored last season give him the impression of being anything more than an average player, and I think would do well to sell him before he’s found out

I agree, he could be another Iwobi, i.e. a nice little earner who we won't miss, if we sell this summer

[IBK]

Simply being English gives him a valuation of about 40 million and that’s what a club like Aston Villa would pay for him

Realistically we won’t get more than that, because he isn’t that good….no real pace, ok technically but nothing special.

I think the goals he scored last season give him the impression of being anything more than an average player, and I think would do well to sell him before he’s found out

I think he's more likely to be a Joe Willock, personally - a key component of a side that will achieve Top 4 who is being tipped for England...

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think he's more likely to be a Joe Willock, personally - a key component of a side that will achieve Top 4 who is being tipped for England...

Exactly and Joe Willock wasn’t that good either, glad we got rid of him. Newcastle are doing well, but it will come to the point where they will want an upgrade on him

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think he's more likely to be a Joe Willock, personally - a key component of a side that will achieve Top 4 who is being tipped for England...

Willock was and is a great talent, initially he was the best of the kids when they nmxed with the first team, that was until Saka's breakthrough as an attacking force.

We shouldn't have sold him, especially for the pittance we got as I think he'd be perfect in this current Arteta system, easily being able to bench Xhaka for that free role.

I hope he doesn't start against us as he has that nick of being in the right place at the right time.