Summer Transfer Shit and Everything Else

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Agreement to sign Merino has been reached.

Good stuff.

Good to hear, I just hope we won't regret not finishing this deal earlier when we play Villa.

A good signing and hopefully now if anything happens to Odegaard (or God forbid we actually rest him), we have someone natural who can create and keep the team ticking.

Looking forward to him getting into the team ASAP and pairing with Rice for now

[HCZ_Reborn]

Good to hear, I just hope we won't regret not finishing this deal earlier when we play Villa.

A good signing and hopefully now if anything happens to Odegaard (or God forbid we actually rest him), we have someone natural who can create and keep the team ticking.

Looking forward to him getting into the team ASAP and pairing with Rice for now

He erm wouldn’t be a backup for Odegaard. That would be either Vieira, Havertz or Nwaneri

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

He erm wouldn’t be a backup for Odegaard. That would be either Vieira, Havertz or Nwaneri

Read slowly.

I didn't say we are bringing him in to be backup for Odegaard as I believe he'd be starting next to Rice.

However, he is easily more of the natural choice to play Odegaard's position in case something happened to him, far above all the limited players you just mentioned (and even the likeable Smith-Rowe).

Just think of how Vieira moved further forward when we sold Petit.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Read slowly.

I didn't say we are bringing him in to be backup for Odegaard as I believe he'd be starting next to Rice.

However, he is easily more of the natural choice to play that position in case something happened to Odegaard, far above all the limited players you just mentioned.

Just think of how Vieira moved further forward when we sold Petit.

Except he didn’t (Vieira) he was always someone who moved from box to box, regardless of whether he had Petit, Gilberto, Grimandi or Van Bronckhorst next to him. Odegaard doesn’t drop deep either. So I’m not sure where the comparison comes from.

Also Merino is a player who was deemed surplus to requirements six years ago by Newcastle who had only just made it back to the premier league. Maybe you should hold back judgement on knowing what you believe to be his superiority to other players.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Except he didn’t (Vieira) he was always someone who moved from box to box, regardless of whether he had Petit, Gilberto, Grimandi or Van Bronckhorst next to him. Odegaard doesn’t drop deep either. So I’m not sure where the comparison comes from.

Also Merino is a player who was deemed surplus to requirements six years ago by Newcastle who had only just made it back to the premier league. Maybe you should hold back judgement on knowing what you believe to be his superiority to other players.

You simply just love pointless arguments.

When we had Viera and Petit, Vieira was the no4 (chief defensive midfielder, in case you don't understand) and Petit the no10. When Petit left, Viera became our no10 (chief creative midfielder , again incase you don't understand) and whoever he was partnered with became the no4. Its quite basic really and I can't believe I am explaining this on an Arsenal football forum.

By now you hopefully understand the Odegaard is our no10 and the only player that came close to even looking like a proper no10 in our squad was Smith-Rowe. However injuries and the little cameos he had never showed he could adequately come close to being adequate cover for Odegaard. Fabio Vieira has probably had more opportunity than anyone in recent times and again I can't remember being satisfied with seeing him in that role (neither was Arteta IMO).

From what I have seen from Merino, he's more a natural fit for this, if we need cover .

I am sorry if you get upset that I am projecting my hopes and aspirations on a likely new signing, but thats kind of the way true fans behave, which might be a bit difficult for you to grasp...seeing as you can't even remember how our best teams were setup.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Petit never played as a number 10 he was a defensive midfielder. Vieira would always stride between the defensive half and the offensive half so no I literally have no idea what you’re on about.

I’m not the one projecting, you’re the one comparing apples and bowling balls between a 4-4-2 system from 25 years ago. If the number 10 role existed at all it was largely fulfilled by Dennis Bergkamp.


Merino if anything will be more like Xhaka though hopefully not as one footed, positionally lazy and prone to blind passes as him.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Petit never played as a number 10 he was a defensive midfielder. Vieira would always stride between the defensive half and the offensive half so no I literally have no idea what you’re on about.

I’m not the one projecting, you’re the one comparing apples and bowling balls between a 4-4-2 system from 25 years ago. If the number 10 role existed at all it was largely fulfilled by Dennis Bergkamp.


Merino if anything will be more like Xhaka though hopefully not as one footed, positionally lazy and prone to blind passes as him.

This is tiring.

The fact that you play 2 DMs together does not mean you will not play one in front of the other. If your argument is that Vieira played in front of Petit, then we'd be getting somewhere and that would be something worth a discussion. I've always classed DB10 as a 2nd striker (no 8) and it is pointless bringing him into this when its clear what we are talking about.

Anyway back to our current team , I maintain that there is no one suitable as cover for Odegaard in the team at the moment. Thankfully, we both agree that for now Merino is coming in to take the "Xhaka" spot.

Lets see how the season goes, but just like you had little faith in Trossard and Rice, lets hope Merino surprises you with how useful he becomes to us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is tiring.

The fact that you play 2 DMs together does not mean you will not play one in front of the other. If your argument is that Vieira played in front of Petit, then we'd be getting somewhere and that would be something worth a discussion.

Anyway back to our current team , I maintain that there is no one suitable as cover for Odegaard in the team at the moment. Thankfully, we both agree that for now Merino is coming in to take the "Xhaka" spot.

Lets see how the season goes, but just like you had little faith in Trossard and Rice, lets hope Merino surprises you with how useful he becomes to us.


I stated from the outset that no matter which DM he played with, Vieira held the more advanced position. He wasn’t really a defensive midfielder at all, but neither was he the chief creator that was either Bergkamp or Overmars when he came inside.

And F Vieira or Nwaneri are more like for like backups for Odegaard than a player like Merino. I wouldn’t say Vieira has played enough games to say categorically he can’t play in that position, and Nwaneri is an unknown quantity.

[Marc Overmars]

Isn’t Merino supposed to be a Rodri kind of player? I’m guessing he will share the load with Partey so Rice can continue to play a more box to box role.

[IBK]

I get what you’re saying but equally when you look at last season there were only 12 games where we scored less than twice, that’s compared to City with ten.

Of those 12 games, only 5 of those games did we fail to score in full stop (compared to 3 for City) so basically we are only falling a little bit short of a team that is a machine.


Of those games we won 5 drew 2 and lost 5

Of the games where we scored once we won 5 drew once and lost once

So basically our record total when scoring a minimum of one goal in a game was 28 wins 4 draws and 1 defeat

So whilst yes there’s no doubt we did clock up big wins against pathetic teams, it’s also arguable that we did get a good overall goal distribution.

In many ways the problem is depth as much as quality. I don’t think there is an obvious forward signing that would make us much better up front than we already are. The problem as IBK put it, is that it is not a great market for forwards….and I think when you look at the euros and how so many teams the goals were shared out, the lone front man role seems to be a bit outdated.


I would be happier especially if we sell Nketiah to bring in a right sided winger and maybe hold fire on a new striker until next season.

Agree with this - particularly going down the rabbit hole of signings dictated by Man City. This is not to say we shouldn't aspire to best them, but a transfer policy dictated by what another team does rather than a sober look at our team's needs is a dangerous route to go down.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Isn’t Merino supposed to be a Rodri kind of player? I’m guessing he will share the load with Partey so Rice can continue to play a more box to box role.

He can and has played across the midfield in his career. Though it's more likely he plays the Xhaka role in our setup which hopefully helps out Martinelli (I think HCZ has complained about the loss of Xhaka affecting his performances, so lets see).

Anyway he has played successfully with Odegaard in the past so lets hope he integrates into the team ASAP and we hopefully achieve a more fluid midfield that doesn't rely too heavily on Odegaard orchestrating everything or the need for a Zinchencko as a counterbalance.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He can and has played across the midfield in his career. Though it's more likely he plays the Xhaka role in our setup which hopefully helps out Martinelli (I think HCZ has complained about the loss of Xhaka affecting his performances, so lets see).

Anyway he has played successfully with Odegaard in the past so lets hope he integrates into the team ASAP and we hopefully achieve a more fluid midfield that doesn't rely too heavily on Odegaard orchestrating everything or the need for a Zinchencko as a counterbalance.

I did say that about Xhaka, however at the risk of sounding like I’m provoking an argument it was more in relation to how when looking at the passing distribution when Havertz was playing in that role….there was almost no attempt towards distributing the ball towards Martinelli’s side of the field


I think we all agree (or at least I think we do) that our attacks seem to be overly focused on the right hand side of the pitch allowing defences to double up on Saka. But Martinelli is not without fault, I think he cuts inside too often into a congested middle of the park rather than try and take it to the line and either cross or run in behind his full back.


I’m a big fan of GM, but there’s no argument that last season was poor both in performance and goal return. And I guess to that end if Merino is making sure he gets more of the ball, he’s got nowhere to hide

[Letters]

at the risk of sounding like I’m provoking an argument
I can't imagine anyone on here would think you'd do something like that.

##

[HCZ_Reborn]

I can't imagine anyone on here would think you'd do something like that.

##

Says the person who is arguing with me about Transgender issues even though we largely agree on the subject :lol:

[Letters]

Says the person who is arguing with me about Transgender issues even though we largely agree on the subject :lol:

I didn't say I was any better :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I didn't say I was any better :lol:

Just as long as you’re not

[HCZ_Reborn]

Vieira linked with a loan move back to Porto. If he goes Eddie and Nelson goes we are leaving ourselves dangerously low on squad options without someone else coming in

[Marc Overmars]

Can’t say I’m surprised, Vieira has ability but I don’t think he’s anywhere near robust enough for the PL.

I presume Nwaneri will take his spot in the squad.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Confirmed by Ornstein

In fairness thinking about it now that’s six midfielders for three positions Partey, Jorginho, Rice, Nwaneri, Merino and Odegaard


Where we are thin (assuming Nketiah and Nelson go) is the front three positions with five players for those three positions

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Like I said earlier, he's never shown his quality and has been given more than enough time to shine compared to others.

Hopefully Nwaneri will get more of a chance than Smith-Rowe did, though TBH I'm not bowled over by what I've seen from him.

However, it is important that Arteta is actually able to introduce academy prospects and grow them (all the others were either introduced to the 1st team by AW or Emery). Maybe if we'd been acting like this earlier and been more ruthless with passengers like Vieira, we'd have youngsters thinking there is a pathway and maybe still have that Chido Martins kid in our books.

[Mac76]

Nwaneri looks good, I thought Vieira could have given us something useful on the right perhaps, but clearly Arteta wasn't sufficiently impressed in pre-season

[Chippy]

Nwaneri looks good, I thought Vieira could have given us something useful on the right perhaps, but clearly Arteta wasn't sufficiently impressed in pre-season

We defo need a striker. Jesus is out for two months with a groin injury. Yet another injury prone tosser. We should have sold him in the summer.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The mirror claims we will target a striker after we’ve completed Merino signing

For my money when Jesus comes back from his injury we should play him on the right as cover for Saka

However what I’ve noticed is that we’ve scored four goals in two games, in both instances exceeding our XG. We for sure missed chances yesterday, but I don’t feel like we are creating loads of chances that we are just not putting away.

[HCZ_Reborn]

So looking at 23/24

12 times our XG was higher than the goals we scored

15 times we scored more goals than our XG count


11 times our XG was in line with the goals scored


6 times our XG was less than 1


Forest (H)
Everton (A)
City (H)
Newcastle (A)
Liverpool (A)
City (A)


We got 11 points from 18



12 times our XG was between 1-1.99


United (H)
Chelsea (A)
Brentford (A)
Villa (A)
Fulham (A)
Forest (A)
Brentford (H)
Luton (H)
Villa (H)
Wolves (A)
Tottenham (A)
Man United (A)


We got 25 points from 36


The remaining 20 games our XG was over 2


And we got 53 points from 60

The three games where we dropped points at home - Spurs, Fulham and West Ham. Our average XG over these games was 2.78. And we managed an average of 1.33 goals. And the goals we did score included an own goal and two penalties which speaks to our problem with deep blocks.


It suggests a need for someone a bit more clinical, who can get a toe end on goals against teams that come to the Emirates looking for a smash and grab win or a draw

[KSE Comedy Club]

So looking at 23/24

12 times our XG was higher than the goals we scored

15 times we scored more goals than our XG count


11 times our XG was in line with the goals scored


6 times our XG was less than 1


Forest (H)
Everton (A)
City (H)
Newcastle (A)
Liverpool (A)
City (A)


We got 11 points from 18



12 times our XG was between 1-1.99


United (H)
Chelsea (A)
Brentford (A)
Villa (A)
Fulham (A)
Forest (A)
Brentford (H)
Luton (H)
Villa (H)
Wolves (A)
Tottenham (A)
Man United (A)


We got 25 points from 36


The remaining 20 games our XG was over 2


And we got 53 points from 60

The three games where we dropped points at home - Spurs, Fulham and West Ham. Our average XG over these games was 2.78. And we managed an average of 1.33 goals. And the goals we did score included an own goal and two penalties which speaks to our problem with deep blocks.


It suggests a need for someone a bit more clinical, who can get a toe end on goals against teams that come to the Emirates looking for a smash and grab win or a draw

So..........

We need a striker?

Which is what I said about 3-4 pages back on this thread.

What we have currently is ok when all contributors are firing on all cylinders, but a bit of a void when they are not.

We could just do with an option of a player who has that goal scoring instinct. He doesn't have to be a top striker either, just a player with the nous of where to be and when & the chances will come.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Also, Jesus is a crock and it's borderline now whether or not he should be sold.

He just offers nothing to the team anymore and is constantly out injured for long periods

[HCZ_Reborn]

Also, Jesus is a crock and it's borderline now whether or not he should be sold.

He just offers nothing to the team anymore and is constantly out injured for long periods

We don’t live in the world of what should though. The fact is he’s not going to be sold, he doesn’t want to go and his wages and his injury issues mean he’s not exactly a tempting target for other clubs.

Next summer? Maybe things will be different, but whilst he’s here I would rather try and utilise him as much as possible

[HCZ_Reborn]

So..........

We need a striker?

Which is what I said about 3-4 pages back on this thread.

What we have currently is ok when all contributors are firing on all cylinders, but a bit of a void when they are not.

We could just do with an option of a player who has that goal scoring instinct. He doesn't have to be a top striker either, just a player with the nous of where to be and when & the chances will come.

I think my post was I don’t think it’s as simple as that, for the most part we are quite clinical. But the fact is if you don’t just need a ruthless striker you need other players around just as ruthless and direct. Even as ruthless as City are, we barely gave Haaland a sniff because he had no room to operate in, in the penalty box. The reason in the games I cited where our XG was superior to our goals scored, is look at the goals scored…penalties and own goal….when teams do the deep block you might get some clumsy oaf who sticks out a leg or a shot that goals in off a defender (which I don’t think counts towards XG)

Like with everything in life, a striker would be desirable but it’s a bit more complicated than that. If you take the West Ham game, as unlucky as we were our build up play was slow and gave them too much time to get back

[HCZ_Reborn]

Also Letters/Macca whoever is here. It looks like there are a lot of bot accounts online.


Just thought I’d make you aware.

[Chippy]

https://www.90min.com/eddie-nketiah-proposed-transfer-away-from-arsenal-breaks-down

FFS

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.90min.com/eddie-nketiah-proposed-transfer-away-from-arsenal-breaks-down

FFS

Difficult to agree personal terms with a player we are paying over 100k a week to

[Chippy]

Difficult to agree personal terms with a player we are paying over 100k a week to

You missed out the word "Over" before the word "Paying" :tiphat:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You missed out the word "Over" before the word "Paying" :tiphat:

A kid that has his whole career in front of him and the world at his feet would prefer to sit on the bench and devalue his career just so he can take the easy buck

He never had the mindset of a true winner and personally that's one of the reasons I've never really rated him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

More than likely his representatives advised him to turn down the offer or they themselves weren’t given sufficient pay off

[Chippy]

A kid that has his whole career in front of him and the world at his feet would prefer to sit on the bench and devalue his career just so he can take the easy buck

He never had the mindset of a true winner and personally that's one of the reasons I've never really rated him.

Exactly!
I just hope that Palace come in for him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Exactly!
I just hope that Palace come in for him.

Looks like you may get your wish

[Chippy]

Looks like you may get your wish

;)

[Marc Overmars]

We’ve accepted 25m + 5m in add-ons from Palace for Eddie. Ornstein also says personal terms unlikely to be an issue.

[dostoy]

Calvert Lewin !!!!!!

Surely not.

[Mac76]

We’ve accepted 25m + 5m in add-ons from Palace for Eddie. Ornstein also says personal terms unlikely to be an issue.

I suspect he preferred Palace to Forest, don't blame him, Forest are a bit of a weird club these days plus he can now stay in London

[Mac76]

I see Toney's taking the Saudi dollar instead of playing in a real league somewhere, nice money I'm sure but a shit place to live unless all you want to do is shop in air-conditioned malls

[HCZ_Reborn]

Calvert Lewin !!!!!!

Surely not.

If not for the appalling injury record, I’d actually take a punt on him. He’s a player that would have gone for three years ago. Sadly I think he’s completely finished

[Marc Overmars]

I see Toney's taking the Saudi dollar instead of playing in a real league somewhere, nice money I'm sure but a shit place to live unless all you want to do is shop in air-conditioned malls

To be fair to him I think Brentford priced him out of a move to a big club. He’s also burned a lot of bridges with them by always courting attention and now that’s in the shitter he doesn’t have any other options except for Saudi.

Though it does sound like Chelsea could be interested too. Shock horror.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Merino officially an Arsenal player

[dostoy]

Finalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly.

Looking forward to seeing Mikel Merino play.

Now get some out and maybe another one in.

What about Mudryk ?

[KSE Comedy Club]

I see Toney's taking the Saudi dollar instead of playing in a real league somewhere, nice money I'm sure but a shit place to live unless all you want to do is shop in air-conditioned malls

It seems Chelsea are short of a player or two and have registered as interest in him now, so he could go there instead.

[KSE Comedy Club]

If not for the appalling injury record, I’d actually take a punt on him. He’s a player that would have gone for three years ago. Sadly I think he’s completely finished

Jesus Christ! no thanks, he's a massively overrated pile of shit!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Jesus Christ! no thanks, he's a massively overrated pile of shit!

Yet loads of people here want us to go in for Ivan Toney? :lol:

[Chippy]

I suspect he preferred Palace to Forest, don't blame him, Forest are a bit of a weird club these days plus he can now stay in London

Looking at the Palace team, he will fit in very well there :good:

[Marc Overmars]

Sterling to United and Sancho to Chelsea is a possibility. :unsure:

[dazthegooner]

Seems to me any player that joins Chelsea need to get themselves another agent because as usual they get more out of the deal than the player.

[Mac76]

Sterling to United and Sancho to Chelsea is a possibility. :unsure:

Sancho's career has been totally ruined by poor decision making - Chelsea are Chelsea, and when will people realise Man Utd is a place you go to die?

[Mac76]

If not for the appalling injury record, I’d actually take a punt on him. He’s a player that would have gone for three years ago. Sadly I think he’s completely finished

yeah as you say three years ago i was all for buying him, but not now

[HCZ_Reborn]

yeah as you say three years ago i was all for buying him, but not now

Either Jesus is out for two months as someone claimed earlier and we are basically spit balling every possible option or very bored football journalists and ITK’s are just making shit up.

There seems to be a link in the players we’ve been linked with in the last day. Nunez, Ferguson, Calvert-Lewin….etc all quite tall etc. Either that’s the kind of player we are looking for, or the kind of player Arsenal social media types trying to get clicks think we should go for.

[Mac76]

Looking forward to seeing Mikel Merino play.



Likewise, I think he could be very popular in time if he brings what I think he will to the party


What about Mudryk ?

what about him? overrated and ugly tattoos

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yet loads of people here want us to go in for Ivan Toney? :lol:

Well out of the two, Toney does actually score goals, I would prefer Gyokores myself.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Does he? Hasn’t scored since February. Even Calvert-Lewin has managed better than that (not saying we should sign him either)

Plus Gyokeres is extremely expensive for a player that was playing in the championship and has only made it big in Portuguese football

[KSE Comedy Club]

Does he? Hasn’t scored since February. Even Calvert-Lewin has managed better than that (not saying we should sign him either)

Plus Gyokeres is extremely expensive for a player that was playing in the championship and has only made it big in Portuguese football

Well he's clearly been wanting away from Brentford since the paper talk around him moving on started appearing. It's affected his game hence him not being selected now.

Yeh he may be a punt but his goal scoring record last season was pretty decent and so far he's on 6 goals in 3 games.
I'd rather that than this laughbale news that we are after Darwin Nunez this morning........ :rolleyes:

Mr Hot & Cold, what the hell are they smoking over there at the emirates?!

[Marc Overmars]

Calvert-Lewin would not be a bad punt but his injury record is woeful and I fear he’d be no different to Jesus with the amount of games his misses.

We will surely need some reinforcement up front though. With Eddie going and Jesus a crock that’s a huge amount of pressure on Havertz to play and deliver every game now.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well he's clearly been wanting away from Brentford since the paper talk around him moving on started appearing. It's affected his game hence him not being selected now.

Yeh he may be a punt but his goal scoring record last season was pretty decent and so far he's on 6 goals in 3 games.
I'd rather that than this laughbale news that we are after Darwin Nunez this morning........ :rolleyes:

Mr Hot & Cold, what the hell are they smoking over there at the emirates?!

Yeah that’s bollocks, he scored a few goals after coming back from the gambling ban and then he made it 14 games without a goal. If this was the same player as even 18 months ago, clubs would be clambering over themselves to get him but they aren’t.

I don’t think Nunez is a realistic target, Liverpool won’t sell us shit. But id definitely take a punt on him

[dostoy]

Mudryk has been crap for Chelsea but it looks like they don't want him now and Arteta might be able to get the best out of him.

It would have to be for about half what Chelsea paid for him though and it probably won't happen.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It's oddly quiet on the transfer front for us tbh.

We now need a winger and a striker before the window closes.

That is the bare minimum or we are shorter squad wise than we were going into the summer.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's oddly quiet on the transfer front for us tbh.

We now need a winger and a striker before the window closes.

That is the bare minimum or we are shorter squad wise than we were going into the summer.

Clearly we aren’t going to sign both

Nwaneri has been promoted to replace Smith Rowe, which makes sense to have a promising youngster rather than a 24 year old. We need a striker or attacking player of some description to take the pressure off Havertz

[KSE Comedy Club]

Clearly we aren’t going to sign both

Nwaneri has been promoted to replace Smith Rowe, which makes sense to have a promising youngster rather than a 24 year old. We need a striker or attacking player of some description to take the pressure off Havertz

So who is replacing Vieria who was used as cover for Saka then?

[HCZ_Reborn]

So who is replacing Vieria who was used as cover for Saka then?

No one, not exactly like Vieira was used to begin with.

[KSE Comedy Club]

No one, not exactly like Vieira was used to begin with.

But we still need cover for Saka - a point which keeps being made on other Arsenal fan channels, etc.

Jesus can't be it as he keeps getting injured & signing a new forward is to replace Nketiah.

We are short in those two areas now, even with Nwaneri being 'promoted'

[HCZ_Reborn]

We sold Nketiah because he’s shit, if Jesus hadn’t got injured I doubt we’d have signed a forward at all (and we still might not)

[KSE Comedy Club]

We sold Nketiah because he’s shit, if Jesus hadn’t got injured I doubt we’d have signed a forward at all (and we still might not)

Then that leaves us shorter than when we started the window.

Which is baffling on one hand and complete incompetence on the other.
(should we not sign anyone else)

[Mac76]

Then that leaves us shorter than when we started the window.

Which is baffling on one hand and complete incompetence on the other.
(should we not sign anyone else)

i'd honestly rather not have Eddie at all, whether we buy another striker or not

It's better he goes whatever, because if he's here Arteta will play him at certain times, which basically brings us down to ten men - i'd rather play anyone else than him, I'd rather bring on Kiwior and push Gabriel up front (which isn't a bad idea actually :lol:)

Also selling Eddie is necessary as i think KSE have laid down the law about raising money for new transfers via player sales

[KSE Comedy Club]

i'd honestly rather not have Eddie at all, whether we buy another striker or not

It's better he goes whatever, because if he's here Arteta will play him at certain times, which basically brings us down to ten men - i'd rather play anyone else than him, I'd rather bring on Kiwior and push Gabriel up front (which isn't a bad idea actually :lol:)

Also selling Eddie is necessary as i think KSE have laid down the law about raising money for new transfers via player sales

Oh don't get me wrong I agree about Nketiah (he's just not good enough imo), it's more that with all these outgoings, we currently have less options than when we started - even if Jesus hadn't got injured.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Oh don't get me wrong I agree about Nketiah (he's just not good enough imo), it's more that with all these outgoings, we currently have less options than when we started - even if Jesus hadn't got injured.

Well that’s it, although option was always a loose word because Arteta is not one for rotating. And although I don’t care at all for Trossard sulking like that, he probably thinks well I’m not going to get a look in with this stubborn arse.


Going a bit off at a tangent, I like Trossard as a player. Wasn’t a fan of signing him because I generally like us to sign younger players and mould them, but he’s been worth the money. But at the same time, he’s a good player not a great one. Three years ago I don’t think he could have hoped to be playing for a club like Arsenal and he’s got the hump cos he’s not starting for us. Whilst I admire the ambition, I think get some perspective.


Martinelli is in poor form but I think he’s got the potential to be a great player

[Mac76]

Well that’s it, although option was always a loose word because Arteta is not one for rotating. And although I don’t care at all for Trossard sulking like that, he probably thinks well I’m not going to get a look in with this stubborn arse.


Going a bit off at a tangent, I like Trossard as a player. Wasn’t a fan of signing him because I generally like us to sign younger players and mould them, but he’s been worth the money. But at the same time, he’s a good player not a great one. Three years ago I don’t think he could have hoped to be playing for a club like Arsenal and he’s got the hump cos he’s not starting for us. Whilst I admire the ambition, I think get some perspective.


Martinelli is in poor form but I think he’s got the potential to be a great player

I was always a fan of Trossard and have no idssue with anything he's said or done, except that I'm not sure being surly with Arteta, who's not mature enough to put it in prspective and laugh it off, is wise but that's down to Arteta not him

[HCZ_Reborn]

I was always a fan of Trossard and have no idssue with anything he's said or done, except that I'm not sure being surly with Arteta, who's not mature enough to put it in prspective and laugh it off, is wise but that's down to Arteta not him

No fan of Arteta but I think he dealt with it well in the post match Villa interview

Whether that will be his stance behind closed doors who knows (maybe you can find a clip in training where Arteta doesn’t shake his hand to read too much into :lol:)

I don’t respect players sulking like that publicly to be honest. However what I will say is that despite the petulance, he produced enough on the pitch (not just the goal) to say “I think you should start me”. That’s the action I want to see from players who are unhappy at not starting.

[Mac76]

No fan of Arteta but I think he dealt with it well in the post match Villa interview

Whether that will be his stance behind closed doors who knows (maybe you can find a clip in training where Arteta doesn’t shake his hand to read too much into :lol:)

I don’t respect players sulking like that publicly to be honest. However what I will say is that despite the petulance, he produced enough on the pitch (not just the goal) to say “I think you should start me”. That’s the action I want to see from players who are unhappy at not starting.

he wasn't sulking he just made a thing of not going crazy - tbh you could see he really wanted to laugh but he just about kept it in

[HCZ_Reborn]

he wasn't sulking he just made a thing of not going crazy - tbh you could see he really wanted to laugh but he just about kept it in

Nah he was sulking, had to be coaxed by Saliba into doing that weird goggle celebration

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ramsdale going for 18million rising to 25 million. Have to say that’s not bad at all. Genuinely wish him the best at Southampton

[Mac76]

Ramsdale going for 18million rising to 25 million. Have to say that’s not bad at all. Genuinely wish him the best at Southampton

definitely

presumably we'll get that other goalie in we were after

[Mac76]

Nah he was sulking, had to be coaxed by Saliba into doing that weird goggle celebration

you're mistaking an act for sulking, he was trying to make a point i think but it wasn't as emotional as sulking

[Marc Overmars]

Wish Ramsdale all the best. Genuinely felt he would be our number 1 for years to come. Brilliant personality and at times he was world class but the lack of concentration was evident and in the end Raya does feel like an upgrade.

Sounds like Joan Garcia will be signed as Raya’s understudy. No idea who he is but I presume he’s a keeper in the same mould.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Honestly I think it's a weird move for him.

[Marc Overmars]

Liverpool are signing Federico Chiesa for 12m. He’s not really kicked on after the promise he showed a few years back but for that price it’s a decent punt.

[Mac76]

Honestly I think it's a weird move for him.

He wants to play first team football and i suspect bigger clubs were put off by his appearances v Brentford last year which were every shaky - i suspect he'll really shine for Saints and be picked up by a bigger club next summer

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This Ramsdale deal is pretty poor. IIRC we payed more to bring him to this club so I am unsure how suddenly his value has declined especially when he proved to everyone that he could be a no1 at a top club like ours and even get to the national side.

I think its a mistake selling him for peanuts and not looking to try and keep 2 really good goalkeepers for a team which is trying to win something substantial after not winning anything for ages.

Also WTF is going with us and our get rid syndrome of talented relatively young keepers just because of one or 2 cockups??? We made this mistake with Fabianski, Szcesney and Emi and though I supported letting Leno go, even he has haunted us a few times.

Also mentioning that, why do we keep selling our talented keepers to EPL teams?? Am I the only one who recognises that they keep on putting MOTM performances against us?? I do not think its a coincidence that both Fulham and Villa beat us last season and I am sure if we check you will see the pattern of us dropping points to our past keepers has been this way for the last 3-4 years. So now that Fab is practically retired we've decided to upgrade Southampton to a boogey team too??? Surely we should have learnt our lesson by now and if we were going to sell him for peanuts we should have looked to go continental FFS!

[HCZ_Reborn]

you're mistaking an act for sulking, he was trying to make a point i think but it wasn't as emotional as sulking

If you need to make a point on the pitch with a display of petulance in your goal celebration it’s a sulk. Whilst his overall performance was very professional, I thought it was childish sulking. And he’s someone who has two kids, and honestly I wouldn’t want my kids to see me acting like that on tv.

Let’s be fair, De Zerbi had an issue with his attitude when he wanted to leave Brighton. So it’s not exactly like this behaviour is out of the blue. Dont get me wrong, I still think he’s been a good signing….on the pitch his performances are generally good. I could just personally do without the tantrums

[Mac76]

If you need to make a point on the pitch with a display of petulance in your goal celebration it’s a sulk. Whilst his overall performance was very professional, I thought it was childish sulking. And he’s someone who has two kids, and honestly I wouldn’t want my kids to see me acting like that on tv.

Let’s be fair, De Zerbi had an issue with his attitude when he wanted to leave Brighton. So it’s not exactly like this behaviour is out of the blue. Dont get me wrong, I still think he’s been a good signing….on the pitch his performances are generally good. I could just personally do without the tantrums

If you think that's a tantrum try reading some of your own posts :lol:

He was sending himself up that's all, the guy is very balanced - if he had any kind of attitude problems we all know Arteta, who spent a lot of time and (the club's) money getting rid of anyone who talked back, wouldn't have gone near him and he'd have known via Ben White

[HCZ_Reborn]

This Ramsdale deal is pretty poor. IIRC we payed more to bring him to this club so I am unsure how suddenly his value has declined especially when he proved to everyone that he could be a no1 at a top club like ours and even get to the national side.

I think its a mistake selling him for peanuts and not looking to try and keep 2 really good goalkeepers for a team which is trying to win something substantial after not winning anything for ages.

Also WTF is going with us and our get rid syndrome of talented relatively young keepers just because of one or 2 cockups??? We made this mistake with Fabianski, Szcesney and Emi and though I supported letting Leno go, even he has haunted us a few times.

Also mentioning that, why do we keep selling our talented keepers to EPL teams?? Am I the only one who recognises that they keep on putting MOTM performances against us?? I do not think its a coincidence that both Fulham and Villa beat us last season and I am sure if we check you will see the pattern of us dropping points to our past keepers has been this way for the last 3-4 years. So now that Fab is practically retired we've decided to upgrade Southampton to a boogey team too??? Surely we should have learnt our lesson by now and if we were going to sell him for peanuts we should have looked to go continental FFS!

A year ago, this would have been my attitude. And Raya’s start in an Arsenal shirt was hardly inspiring confidence. I thought it was unfair that Ramsdale was being targeted as the weak link for the fact that we were conceding goals at home despite the opposition having a low XG count. But I have to say, a year on I think Arteta’s ruthlessness has clearly had some logic to it. Raya both in saves and in ball distribution is a better keeper than Ramsdale, and Ramsdale wants to play football…I actually would say that he’s been very professional and patient to sit on the bench for as long as he has and not really complain about it.
But the fact is, we are operating in a different world in football from when we bought him. Recouping the money we got from him and more so was always going to be a big ask, because buying clubs don’t want to end up like Forest or Everton and being deducted points for overspend. In that regard the money we are getting for Nketiah, Smith Rowe and Ramsdale is pretty good.

[Mac76]

We made this mistake with Fabianski, Szcesney and Emi and though I supported letting Leno go, even he has haunted us a few times.


I thought letting Emi go was a result of misplaced loyalty on Arteta's part towards Leno, it made no sense given Martinez suited what Arteta wanted to do playing-wise much more than Leno who can't play out from the back at all

we lost a literally world-class keeper in Martinez, maybe it was a personality thing, Martinez strikes me as the kind of individually-minded guy Arteta would take against

[HCZ_Reborn]

If you think that's a tantrum try reading some of your own posts :lol:

He was sending himself up that's all, the guy is very balanced - if he had any kind of attitude problems we all know Arteta woudln't have gone near him and he'd have known via Ben White

Well it would depend what post you’re referring to. 95% of the time, I’m treating you with the contempt you deserve, because I regard you as a bit of a silly person. I think I’ve only ever really got annoyed with you when you’ve tried to insinuate that I would abuse a child….its not something I feel I should take with good humour to be honest.

But im sure some of my posts are a bit petulant, it doesn’t change the fact that im identifying petulance in someone else. Plus the difference is this place is frequented by almost no one and no one knows who I am anyway. Not sure if it was being viewed by millions of people and my identity was clearly known id behave the same way

[Mac76]

Well it would depend what post you’re referring to. 95% of the time, I’m treating you with the contempt you deserve, because I regard you as a bit of a silly person. I think I’ve only ever really got annoyed with you when you’ve tried to insinuate that I would abuse a child….

Once again I didn't say that - I simply pointed out that you had what I personally regard as a somewhat unhealthy obsession with that kind of thing, given the metaphors and examples you frequently reached for

[HCZ_Reborn]

Once again I didn't say that - I simply pointed out that you had what I personally regard as a somewhat unhealthy obsession with that kind of thing, given the metaphors and examples you frequently reached for

No you did clearly intimate that and then shrugged it off as a joke.

Plus I can’t prove it because I don’t know what’s in your mind, but I don’t believe at all you do think I have an “unhealthy obsession” with anything, it’s more you playing the man rather than the ball because you don’t have a response to the more substantive point being made.

But maybe I’m projecting, I have NQ on ignore because a) I get tired of being told what I should be concerned about and b) he actually tries to gaslight people, if I engage in argument with him, lhe will end up arguing the same thing as I’ve argued to begin with and then claim I’ve never made that argument and I’m lying (fuck off you malcontent maladjusted weirdo). But his language doesn’t bother me at all…calling people queers is at worst a bit juvenile to me. Perhaps I shouldn’t assume that you claim it bothers you more than it does.

[Mac76]

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4593312]I don’t believe at all you do think I have an “unhealthy obsession” with anything, it’s more you playing the man rather than the ball because you don’t have a response to the more substantive point being made.

You don't think it's noteworthy that every time you wanted to use a metaphor it was along the lines of "like a sex offender/child molester/ etc etc "? instead of literally millions of other metaphors or examples you could have chosen?

anyway I'm happy to say I absolutely don't think you are one, does that help?

[HCZ_Reborn]

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4593312]I don’t believe at all you do think I have an “unhealthy obsession” with anything, it’s more you playing the man rather than the ball because you don’t have a response to the more substantive point being made.

You don't think it's noteworthy that every time you wanted to use a metaphor it was along the lines of "like a sex offender/child molester/ etc etc "? instead of literally millions of other metaphors or examples you could have chosen?

And all of these examples were to express negativity or express displeasure


This started with me saying that Nelson had the first touch of a rapist, you were always protective of Nelson so I’m not inclined to believe that this analogy raised a red flag for you, you just didn’t like my criticism of him.


First touch of a rapist comes from “All in the Game” where Ray Winstone plays a foul mouthed football manager. Also came out with lines like “I’m sweating like a blind lesbian in a fishmongers”


The other thing which I recall comes from having a dark sense of humour, making fun of Belgium who had been beaten by France - Land of waffles, chips and mayonnaise, Stella Artois etc

Marc Dutroux you may or may not be aware is a subject of mockery between Flemish and Waloon Belgians. In fact it was a well known football chant in Belgium football when teams from Flanders played teams from French speaking Belgium.

Because Dutroux was one of the most infamous criminals in Belgium and was a Waloon, it was an excuse for the flems to call the Waloons nonces.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The thing is, unless you’ve lived in a hermetically sealed bubble you’ve been around long enough to know that especially when it comes to football fandom, certain unsavoury language is used…this is why I find your insistence that this a sign of derangement or prurience on my part is rather irritating especially as I say I don’t think it comes from a genuine place of concern.


And to be fair, given you’ve criticised my spelling of players names or equally irrelevant things and then told me I’m being snippy because I tell you quite honestly that I don’t care. My conclusion is either that you’re a bit on the spectrum with this stuff, or you’re desperate to be able to convince yourself that you’ve won an argument….and this is why I’m not inclined to take your moralising with any due seriousness

[Mac76]

I'd say at this point you were protesting a bit too much, but as I say I am not casting aspertions other than to say there are patently millions of other ways of expressing your thoughts other than the terms you have so often chosen to, but that's your choice whatever, I'll let you reflect on whether it has any meaning

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'd say at this point you were protesting a bit too much, but as I say I am not casting aspertions other than to say there are patently millions of other ways of expressing your thoughts other than the terms you have so often chosen to, but that's your choice whatever, I'll let you reflect on whether it has any meaning

Brass tacks I’m protesting because I don’t like someone smarmily inferring things about my character because that’s the only way they can think of to win an argument. Of course there are other allusions I can make but so what…. My way of thinking is police your own language, not that of other people its not my job to be someone’s conscience or moral arbiter, and it’s not their job to be mine especially when as I suspect it’s totally disingenuous anyhow.

Is that my problem? Of course it is.

[KSE Comedy Club]

No fan of Arteta but I think he dealt with it well in the post match Villa interview

Whether that will be his stance behind closed doors who knows (maybe you can find a clip in training where Arteta doesn’t shake his hand to read too much into :lol:)

I don’t respect players sulking like that publicly to be honest. However what I will say is that despite the petulance, he produced enough on the pitch (not just the goal) to say “I think you should start me”. That’s the action I want to see from players who are unhappy at not starting.

Have we actually ascertained what that was all about from him?

I thought it was a bit odd at the time and everyone just decided it's because he wasn't starting games.

Personally I think he's mainly been average whenever he starts and is much better as an impact sub, but maybe he thinks differently

[Mac76]

Brass tacks I’m protesting because I don’t like someone smarmily inferring things about my character because that’s the only way they can think of to win an argument. Of course there are other allusions I can make but so what…. My way of thinking is police your own language, not that of other people its not my job to be someone’s conscience or moral arbiter, and it’s not their job to be mine especially when as I suspect it’s totally disingenuous anyhow.

Is that my problem? Of course it is.

I wasn't deploying it to win any argument, i don't need to, i just thought it noteworthy, you're constantly acucseding me of being somewhere on the spectrum or whatever so if you don't want to be judged then don't judge others

[Mac76]

Personally I think he's mainly been average whenever he starts and is much better as an impact sub, but maybe he thinks differently

At first yes, but he grew into the starting role, especially with Havertz up front

[Marc Overmars]

Bit of talk that we’re considering Kingsley Coman.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I wasn't deploying it to win any argument, i don't need to, i just thought it noteworthy, you're constantly acucseding me of being somewhere on the spectrum or whatever so if you don't want to be judged then don't judge others

Again as I’ve said I can’t prove that’s why you do it, but when taking your posting in totality it’s far more reasonable to come to that conclusion than that you are genuinely affronted by crude terminology.


Plus you have almost never won an argument against me on its merits, your common baseline go to when asked to evidence your view is “loads of people I know think the same” which is the same rhetorical trick that Fox News used to use when lacking evidence for an assertion for them it was “some people say”.

I don’t know, maybe you lack the self awareness to see what you’re doing. I haven’t claimed definitively you’re on the spectrum, I’ve speculated that this is a possibility because of the manner of some of your responses. Occam’s Razor suggests however that it’s more likely you’re smug and self-satisfied, believe yourself to be morally superior to most other people which actually when you go deeper than surface level actually hides some pretty ugly views you have about anyone outside the bubble you inhabit.

But I think personally judging someone for being a smug and self-satisfied virtue signaller is a lot less heinous than accusing someone of harbouring violent sexual thoughts.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Have we actually ascertained what that was all about from him?

I thought it was a bit odd at the time and everyone just decided it's because he wasn't starting games.

Personally I think he's mainly been average whenever he starts and is much better as an impact sub, but maybe he thinks differently

Not Definitively no


But when Arteta was asked to comment about it and stated that he seemed to be unhappy for not starting games, it would be quite the coincidence if he was just simply being nonchalant in a Thierry Henry esque manner

[HCZ_Reborn]

Long term I think of Trossard as an impact sub rather than a starter. My brother who I almost never agree with on anything compared him in that vein to Ole Gunner Solksjaer and I think that’s a reasonable comparison. Martinelli has been disappointing for a long time now, but I think as clearly Arteta does that he is a superior player to Trossard. But he hasn’t shown it, and actually for me it’s now on Martinelli to prove his worth from the bench much in the way Trossard has had to

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bit of talk that we’re considering Kingsley Coman.

Yes I’ve seen this. I’d be ok with this as he can play anywhere along the front three and really with an attacking signing it’s as much about adding squad depth. This individual who is going to singularly give us 25+ goals a season is not happening in this window and I remain unconvinced that there was anyone realistic we could have signed to fill that role.


I’d rather this be a loan signing as long term would maybe consider using our summer budget for 2025 to go for the one big attacking player (Openda is the one we are meant to be looking at). That’s assuming Arteta can stop his habbit of purchasing defenders like they are Faberge Eggs

[KSE Comedy Club]

Brass tacks I’m protesting because I don’t like someone smarmily inferring things about my character because that’s the only way they can think of to win an argument. Of course there are other allusions I can make but so what…. My way of thinking is police your own language, not that of other people its not my job to be someone’s conscience or moral arbiter, and it’s not their job to be mine especially when as I suspect it’s totally disingenuous anyhow.

Is that my problem? Of course it is.

Haven't you two got your own thread for this........??

:lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Not Definitively no


But when Arteta was asked to comment about it and stated that he seemed to be unhappy for not starting games, it would be quite the coincidence if he was just simply being nonchalant in a Thierry Henry esque manner

Ahh I see, I haven't seen Arteta's post match comments so wasn't aware of this :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Haven't you two got your own thread for this........??

:lol:

Arguments can’t be tamed or structured in this way

They are an art form

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yes I’ve seen this. I’d be ok with this as he can play anywhere along the front three and really with an attacking signing it’s as much about adding squad depth. This individual who is going to singularly give us 25+ goals a season is not happening in this window and I remain unconvinced that there was anyone realistic we could have signed to fill that role.



I can't agree with this, are we saying that there is no striker in the entire footballing world, that doesn't have enough talent to get on the end of a crossed ball, be in the right place at the right time, and put the ball in the back of the net?
I highly doubt it.

We create so many chances, they would only have to be half decent and probably be able to elevate themselves to grab a hat full of goals throughout the season.
Every player doesn't have to be world class to do a job, just better than what we have, which currently is:

Trossard - great off the bench but not sure he can do it consistently over 90 mins (plus potential injury time)
Havertz - maybe 20 goals this season, but not 100% nailed on (plus potential injury time)
Saka - gets found out by most teams now, 2 man marking almost every time (plus potential injury time)
Martinelli - Needs to get his head straight, hasn't been a complete attacking threat for a long time now (plus potential injury time)
Jesus - Nowhere near the player he was before the injury, hardly scores at all now (plus guaranteed injury time)

That's it, apart from the odd goals from Odegaard and the odd random goals from defenders and other players.

We only have to have one of those players get an injury and the attack is decimated, with no options off the bench.

[Mac76]

I can't agree with this, are we saying that there is no striker in the entire footballing world, that doesn't have enough talent to get on the end of a crossed ball, be in the right place at the right time, and put the ball in the back of the net?
I highly doubt it.

We create so many chances, they would only have to be half decent and probably be able to elevate themselves to grab a hat full of goals throughout the season.
Every player doesn't have to be world class to do a job, just better than what we have, which currently is:

Trossard - great off the bench but not sure he can do it consistently over 90 mins (plus potential injury time)
Havertz - maybe 20 goals this season, but not 100% nailed on (plus potential injury time)
Saka - gets found out by most teams now, 2 man marking almost every time (plus potential injury time)
Martinelli - Needs to get his head straight, hasn't been a complete attacking threat for a long time now (plus potential injury time)
Jesus - Nowhere near the player he was before the injury, hardly scores at all now (plus guaranteed injury time)

That's it, apart from the odd goals from Odegaard and the odd random goals from defenders and other players.

We only have to have one of those players get an injury and the attack is decimated, with no options off the bench.

agreed, I think they will be casting the net far and wide, they have at least brought in the funds from ESR, Ram and Eddie plus I wouldn't rule out a Nelson sale yet though maybe Arteta wants to keep him for the cups plus things like Saints at home

[HCZ_Reborn]

I can't agree with this, are we saying that there is no striker in the entire footballing world, that doesn't have enough talent to get on the end of a crossed ball, be in the right place at the right time, and put the ball in the back of the net?
I highly doubt it.

We create so many chances, they would only have to be half decent and probably be able to elevate themselves to grab a hat full of goals throughout the season.
Every player doesn't have to be world class to do a job, just better than what we have, which currently is:

Trossard - great off the bench but not sure he can do it consistently over 90 mins (plus potential injury time)
Havertz - maybe 20 goals this season, but not 100% nailed on (plus potential injury time)
Saka - gets found out by most teams now, 2 man marking almost every time (plus potential injury time)
Martinelli - Needs to get his head straight, hasn't been a complete attacking threat for a long time now (plus potential injury time)
Jesus - Nowhere near the player he was before the injury, hardly scores at all now (plus guaranteed injury time)

That's it, apart from the odd goals from Odegaard and the odd random goals from defenders and other players.

We only have to have one of those players get an injury and the attack is decimated, with no options off the bench.



But I do think there’s a qualitative difference between having options up front in terms of numbers which I agree we lack and taking the Goldilocks approach to getting the right player. For me it’s not an either or. I don’t want us to be short of options across the front three (and thus why I think bringing in Kingsley Coman would be a good signing) and I don’t want to bring in just any striker who doesn’t fit in with how we play, doesn’t necessarily add anything else (outside of players like Haaland top clinical strikers are at a premium) and is a burden to bringing in someone better further down the line

[KSE Comedy Club]

But I do think there’s a qualitative difference between having options up front in terms of numbers which I agree we lack and taking the Goldilocks approach to getting the right player. For me it’s not an either or. I don’t want us to be short of options across the front three (and thus why I think bringing in Kingsley Coman would be a good signing) and I don’t want to bring in just any striker who doesn’t fit in with how we play, doesn’t necessarily add anything else (outside of players like Haaland top clinical strikers are at a premium) and is a burden to bringing in someone better further down the line

But that's the thing, I don't think we necessarily need a player that 'fits in' to how we play.
I think we should be going for something slightly different to mix things up when required, or it's just more of the same. We really need some form of game changer for the hard to break down teams.

Not entirely sold on Coman either as he has been very injury prone in the last season or two.

[HCZ_Reborn]

But that's the thing, I don't think we necessarily need a player that 'fits in' to how we play.
I think we should be going for something slightly different to mix things up when required, or it's just more of the same. We really need some form of game changer for the hard to break down teams.

Not entirely sold on Coman either as he has been very injury prone in the last season or two.


I think the whole route one striker thing is all very well until you consider that there aren’t that many players who are good at it, even Toney it’s about link up play and being on the wavelength of his team mates to be in the right place to slot in chances (and that’s when he was scoring goals)

Even City took ages to bring in a forward until they had Haaland become available. In many respects I think we already have a more route one player in Havertz in terms of someone who holds up the ball and can get headed goals. Actually if anything what we need is someone with a low centre of gravity who can terrify defenders with pace.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think the whole route one striker thing is all very well until you consider that there aren’t that many players who are good at it, even Toney it’s about link up play and being on the wavelength of his team mates to be in the right place to slot in chances (and that’s when he was scoring goals)

Even City took ages to bring in a forward until they had Haaland become available. In many respects I think we already have a more route one player in Havertz in terms of someone who holds up the ball and can get headed goals. Actually if anything what we need is someone with a low centre of gravity who can terrify defenders with pace.

I never said we needed a route forward, just a player that will actually shoot on sight and on target will do.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I never said we needed a route forward, just a player that will actually shoot on sight and on target will do.

It seemed inferred that if you want a player that can offer something different from how we play, it was a player that’s more direct. I’d argue that it’s not so much that we blaze loads of chances high and wide, it’s more that they are blocked by the team with about eight or nine outfield players in their own penalty box

[KSE Comedy Club]

It seemed inferred that if you want a player that can offer something different from how we play, it was a player that’s more direct. I’d argue that it’s not so much that we blaze loads of chances high and wide, it’s more that they are blocked by the team with about eight or nine outfield players in their own penalty box

Well yes that is true to some extent, but that's as much our own doing as it is the defending team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ado9DLvj08M

This sums it up for me so far.

Still 30 odd hours+ to go though.

[Mac76]

Well yes that is true to some extent, but that's as much our own doing as it is the defending team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ado9DLvj08M

This sums it up for me so far.

Still 30 odd hours+ to go though.

TLDW, but yes 30-odd hours to go and I'm pretty certain they'll try to bring someone in, if they don't we're short up front for sure

[HCZ_Reborn]

TLDW, but yes 30-odd hours to go and I'm pretty certain they'll try to bring someone in, if they don't we're short up front for sure

The length was less my concern and more Lee Judges

A least with the waffling idiots on here I have the right of reply :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

The length was less my concern and more Lee Judges

A least with the waffling idiots on here I have the right of reply :lol:

He's not too bad tbh, but we don't have much choice in the way of fan channels - at least it's not Lee Gunner :ilt:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Looks like we have agreed a loan deal with Bournemouth for Neto.

We've walked away from Garcia as they want the full 30m euros paid up front (which is too much for another GK in this window, imo)

[HCZ_Reborn]

He's not too bad tbh, but we don't have much choice in the way of fan channels - at least it's not Lee Gunner :ilt:

The whole ex Arsenal fan tv lot are all the cast of police academy…a bunch of one dimensional caricatures

[KSE Comedy Club]

The whole ex Arsenal fan tv lot are all the cast of police academy…a bunch of one dimensional caricatures

True

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/video/16429/13205650/david-ornstein-arsenal-remaining-cautious-in-the-window-not-considering-kingsley-coman

If what Ornstein says is true, it shows we’ve got a deranged fucking maniac as coach. Selling players to fund transfers is absolutely fine….but you’ve sold attacking players to finance a surplus defender.

[KSE Comedy Club]

https://www.skysports.com/football/video/16429/13205650/david-ornstein-arsenal-remaining-cautious-in-the-window-not-considering-kingsley-coman

If what Ornstein says is true, it shows we’ve got a deranged fucking maniac as coach. Selling players to fund transfers is absolutely fine….but you’ve sold attacking players to finance a surplus defender.

He is also saying we have no money, zero, zilch, nada.

That is quite clearly bullshit even with PSR, we definitely have some kind of transfer fund.

But yeh, if we finish today with no attacking players added then this window is dogshit and our title charge is going to stutter before it starts.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He is also saying we have no money, zero, zilch, nada.

That is quite clearly bullshit even with PSR, we definitely have some kind of transfer fund.

But yeh, if we finish today with no attacking players added then this window is dogshit and our title charge is going to stutter before it starts.

In fairness he didn’t say that, he is saying Arsenal is operating in a model of we have to finance our transfers through player sales….we aren’t sailing close to the wind like some clubs, but it’s clear that we’ve spent far more than we’ve been bringing in. It’s maybe being over cautious, maybe that is a directive from KSE.

But again it’s not that I have a problem with. When you’ve spent 650 million over the past four years you can hardly accuse us of lacking ambition.

For me as always it’s about the positions we prioritise. Another inverted left back (especially one at 45 million) was not a top order priority

[KSE Comedy Club]

In fairness he didn’t say that, he is saying Arsenal is operating in a model of we have to finance our transfers through player sales….we aren’t sailing close to the wind like some clubs, but it’s clear that we’ve spent far more than we’ve been bringing in. It’s maybe being over cautious, maybe that is a directive from KSE.

But again it’s not that I have a problem with. When you’ve spent 650 million over the past four years you can hardly accuse us of lacking ambition.

For me as always it’s about the positions we prioritise. Another inverted left back (especially one at 45 million) was not a top order priority

He didn't specifically say that no, but it's exactly what he has inferred.
I have no problem with us being astute and doing good, sensible business - that is to be aplauded.

But, decimating the attacking squad with player sales, buying another defender and effectively sorting out business for 2 goal keepers in the same window, not then adding better quality to the attacking squad (which should have been the main priority) - is absolutely mind boggling and should be slandered, chastised, shamed!!

I know we still have the day to go yet, but there doesn't seem to be any real plan or intent to fill the void that has been left.
We cannot go into a season trying to finally lift the PL trophy with 5 players in attack, one of which is a crock at best and contributes 0 to the score sheet, and hope that they all stay fit and available.

There'e even more games to play this season as well with the new CL format.

How can they think anything is achievable with a smaller squad than last season?!?

[HCZ_Reborn]

For what it’s worth I don’t think we will win the title anyway. What is vexing for me is that even in a transfer window where a striker and wide attacking player were the absolute priority to the exclusion of anything else, Arteta once again has prioritised a defender because he collects them like a retired housewife collects Hummel figurines. We’ve signed ten defenders since he’s been here, three forward players (and technically two given Havertz was never signed as a forward player) and not one of them an out and out striker.

So my concern is not even for this season, it’s about a coach who is pathologically adverse to signing attacking players. So even when Guardiola goes, we won’t be in a position to win the title. And we can’t turn round and use the poverty card because we’ve spent plenty just loads wasted in unnecessary areas.


If this was the 1930s, Arteta would be treated like my alcoholic insomniac great grandfather and committed to an institition for the rest of his life. He certainly wouldn’t be given hundreds of millions to spend trying to get a Goldilocks players for one of the least relevant areas on the pitch

[HCZ_Reborn]

He didn't specifically say that no, but it's exactly what he has inferred.
I have no problem with us being astute and doing good, sensible business - that is to be aplauded.

But, decimating the attacking squad with player sales, buying another defender and effectively sorting out business for 2 goal keepers in the same window, not then adding better quality to the attacking squad (which should have been the main priority) - is absolutely mind boggling and should be slandered, chastised, shamed!!

I know we still have the day to go yet, but there doesn't seem to be any real plan or intent to fill the void that has been left.
We cannot go into a season trying to finally lift the PL trophy with 5 players in attack, one of which is a crock at best and contributes 0 to the score sheet, and hope that they all stay fit and available.

There'e even more games to play this season as well with the new CL format.

How can they think anything is achievable with a smaller squad than last season?!?

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I think you seem to be making largely the same argument as me.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I think you seem to be making largely the same argument as me.

Yes you are correct, I was venting but in agreement with you :d

I guess you are so used to arguing the toss with Maccy I took you by surprise! :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

X rumours currently suggest we are waiting to see if Chelsea will terminate Sterlings contract and take him on a free & there could be late 'drama' regarding us & Osimhen (he still hasn't given word to the saudi club but Chelsea are trying to sign him anyway.

Fuck me, Raheem Sterling :thumbsdown:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

X rumours currently suggest we are waiting to see if Chelsea will terminate Sterlings contract and take him on a free & there could be late 'drama' regarding us & Osimhen (he still hasn't given word to the saudi club but Chelsea are trying to sign him anyway.

Fuck me, Raheem Sterling :thumbsdown:

All this drama wasn't needed.

But that's been our lot ever since we got this Iberian (yeah I am looking at your fake Portuguese passport Edu) double act together.

Sooner or later this behaviour will backfire royally, but for the sake of us longsuffering fans, hopefully it won't be this season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t really have too much animosity towards Edu (ha the whole fake passport thing takes me back) I think he’s little more than a club functionary. And actually I think in the end the deals he’s got for Nketiah, Smith Rowe and Ramsdale are decent. Plus what is the really big player we’ve targeted and missed out under him? Mudryk….well blessing in disguise really (and I really wouldn’t put it past us either to go back in for him at some point anyhow).

Edu doesn’t decide the tactical strategy for the squad, therefore I doubt he’s determining what position we need to strengthen in, at most he’s having input on who the player is after the position has been identified.

[Marc Overmars]

I think Sterling could easily add some decent numbers up front so I would not mind at all if we got him. Certainly wouldn’t pay over the top for him but I think he would be as productive as Trossard in our team.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ramsdale is now officially a Southampton player. Shame in a way, I like the guy but I think it’s hard now to argue that Raya is not a better keeper (and believe me I was strongly of that view a short time ago) and he deserves more than sitting on the bench. I hope he’s able to help Southampton stay up, because he’s a player that’s clearly good enough for the premier league. As I said earlier, he could have spent his time complaining about being treated unfairly but he didn’t he was patient and professional.

Genuinely wish him all the best, and grateful for some of the top saves he made in an Arsenal shirt.

[Mac76]

We should have raised more money by selling Zin, we need him like a hole in the head and he'd have raised £25-£30m I reckon

I'm against Sterling even on a free, but think they might still try a raid for Osimhen

[HCZ_Reborn]

We should have raised more money by selling Zin, we need him like a hole in the head and he'd have raised £25-£30m I reckon

I'm against Sterling even on a free, but think they might still try a raid for Osimhen

Who is this mysterious club you think would have signed him for 25-30 million ?

It’s abundantly clear even Arteta doesn’t rate him now, and he only started against Wolves because he’s trying to ease Timber back in slowly and he thinks starting Califiori is chucking him in at the deep end. At most, we could have shipped him off on loan (and I doubt with an obligation to buy)

We don’t live in the world of what should. In the ideal world we’d ship off Gabriel Jesus, Nelson, Partey as well. I criticise us for not bringing in a forward because that was well within our power.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sterling I’m inclined to agree with you about. The guy was finished when he left Man City, a top player once but I don’t think it’s a case of just another player being ruined by Chelsea…City sold him because they knew they’d got the best out of him and was all downhill. Player that relies on pace, and by your late twenties your legs start to go a bit

[Chippy]

:doh:

You couldnt make this up!


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/mikel-merino-injury-arsenal-team-news-b2604473.html

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/legrove/status/1829508189798199646?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

Even Arteta’s minister of propaganda on Twitter is showing concern

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

:doh:

You couldnt make this up!


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/mikel-merino-injury-arsenal-team-news-b2604473.html

:d another example of why you need a big squad...I mean with double agents like Gabi on our books is there really another option :haha:

BTW I am getting deja vu, hasn't Gabrielle done this sort of thing before?

We still love him though.

[HCZ_Reborn]

:d another example of why you need a big squad...I mean with double agents like Gabi on our books is there really another option :haha:

BTW I am getting deja vu, hasn't Gabrielle done this sort of thing before?

We still love him though.

Yes but I think it was for Brazil rather than Arsenal.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think Sterling could easily add some decent numbers up front so I would not mind at all if we got him. Certainly wouldn’t pay over the top for him but I think he would be as productive as Trossard in our team.

Yup said this earlier and in full agreement.

If he agrees to take a paycut (which I doubt he would), I see no way he would not add value to this squad....especially in big game moments.

[KSE Comedy Club]

We should have raised more money by selling Zin, we need him like a hole in the head and he'd have raised £25-£30m I reckon

I'm against Sterling even on a free, but think they might still try a raid for Osimhen

Getting Sterling is us scraping the barrel and it makes you wonder what exactly our transfer plans were - as he wasn't on them until now.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Getting Sterling is us scraping the barrel and it makes you wonder what exactly our transfer plans were - as he wasn't on them until now.

I definitiely agree with the latter part of what you said, but like MO said, I see him doing a job like Trossard (another afterthought signing) does for us. Also I think Saka could learn a bit from him to....I mean he'd be the first proper winger that Bukayo would have ever played with in Arsenal.

He's definitely not the Sterling of yesteryears, but he has class and I'm one of those people who believes class is permanent. Plus the coach knows him pretty well, so no excuses from Arteta there.

[HCZ_Reborn]

At this point in time, I’m inclined to say he’s better than nothing. I certainly wouldn’t want him as a permanent signing….i think at best he can provide cover because he’s finished, it’s simply better than going into this season with the options we currently have.

Yes you’ve got a point about Arteta having worked with him before.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Reported that no further signings expected other than Neto on loan

Sterling is just paper talk

[KSE Comedy Club]

What a fucking joke if that's true.

We have weakened the squad overall

5/10 window for me now then.

[Mac76]

I don't think selling Eddie weakens us one bit - as I've said already i'd rather put Gabriel up front than Eddie - and I'm being serious - Eddie contributes zilch when he plays so we're better off getting some money for him and going again for attacker in January

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't think selling Eddie weakens us one bit - as I've said already i'd rather put Gabriel up front than Eddie - and I'm being serious - Eddie contributes zilch when he plays so we're better off getting some money for him and going again for attacker in January

He scored five league goals for us last season, so as average as he is it does weaken the squad. It also means you don’t have the option of lumping him in the starting lineup in games like the league cup matches or ridiculously easy home champions league ties…the kind of fixtures he’s always able to score in. Does a player like that contribute in a title race? Absolutely not, does he contribute in terms of being able to make sure you can rest players in nothing fixtures yes he absolutely does.

And even then, it’s not saying we shouldn’t have sold him. It’s merely observing that without him we are, even if simply in terms of numbers worse off than we were

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

What a fucking joke if that's true.

We have weakened the squad overall

5/10 window for me now then.

5/10.... mate are you having laugh?!

We went into this window, saying we needed to replace a striker (we had 3 already) and replace a DM (we had 3 already). Those were the majors. We also had people pointing out we needed better cover for Saka.

The window is ending with us having only one real recognised forward (1 out injured, 1 sold), we have an excess of 4 DMs and no like for like cover for our CM Odegaard. Maybe no cover for Saka if Nelson goes and we lost a world class keeper.

However we made our marquee signing another CB (making it 5 full international CBs) who will likely get as many starts as Kiwor got last season!

As things stand, there is no way we deserve more than a 2/10, unless you are an accountant that works for KSE.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I wouldn't want Sterling simply because it helps Chelsea out from an issue of their own making.

Again.

[dostoy]

Sterling will have to take a cut in wages to come to Arsenal.

Why would Chelsea loan him out to Arsenal and then pay about half his wages?

Surely they won't cancel his contract.

He isn't much good now anyway.

What a mess.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He wants to play first team football and i suspect bigger clubs were put off by his appearances v Brentford last year which were every shaky - i suspect he'll really shine for Saints and be picked up by a bigger club next summer

More likely he'll get relegated again.

[Marc Overmars]

Would Sterling be any less productive than Martinelli? He’s certainly a better option to bring in than Nelson too. It’s another body up top who can chip in with goals, that’s the way I see it.

I’m not jumping for joy as it’s very clear this is an opportunistic move but I don’t think it would be a disaster.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I wouldn't want Sterling simply because it helps Chelsea out from an issue of their own making.

Again.

First criticism that actually makes sense on this matter.

Whatever happens, I kind of still feel they aren't going to be happy... if they had sense, they'd cancel his contract like we did Ozil and Pepe (though I mist admit I didn't agree with those decisions at the time).

[Chippy]

Would Sterling be any less productive than Martinelli? He’s certainly a better option to bring in than Nelson too. It’s another body up top who can chip in with goals, that’s the way I see it.

I’m not jumping for joy as it’s very clear this is an opportunistic move but I don’t think it would be a disaster.

I for one will be happy to get Sterling. We are so light up top it will certainly fill a gap. Miles better than Eddie the Eagle.

[Chippy]

:d another example of why you need a big squad...I mean with double agents like Gabi on our books is there really another option :haha:

BTW I am getting deja vu, hasn't Gabrielle done this sort of thing before?

We still love him though.

I bet Arteta doesn't. What a fuckwit.

[Marc Overmars]

The Sterling deal sounds like it’s being finalised.

The best form of his life came under Arteta’s guidance at City. Let’s have some of that again please.

[Marc Overmars]

Also it turns out Neto is cup tied for the League Cup. :doh:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Also it turns out Neto is cup tied for the League Cup. :doh:

Who cares, can play any old keeper for the early rounds. And if we decide to be stupid enough to play in the latter rounds we can use Raya

It’s entirely possible won’t use Neto at all this season…maybe the odd champions league game or fa cup game. It’s about having a backup in case of injury really

[Chippy]

:d another example of why you need a big squad...I mean with double agents like Gabi on our books is there really another option :haha:

BTW I am getting deja vu, hasn't Gabrielle done this sort of thing before?

We still love him though.

Merino out for six to eight weeks.

[Mac76]

More likely he'll get relegated again.

...and then get signed by a bigger club, as happened when he was relegated and then bought by Arsenal

[The Wengerbabies]

Just seen Stirling that was a bit of a surprise. Guessing he'll take the number 10 shirt.

[Mac76]

At least it's only a loan

I guess they might try him at left 8 seeing as Merino's crocked without kicking a ball, I wouldn't like to see him preferred to Trossard on the left though

[The Wengerbabies]

At least it's only a loan

I guess they might try him at left 8 seeing as Merino's crocked without kicking a ball, I wouldn't like to see him preferred to Trossard on the left though

From what I'm reading, no loan fee and Chelsea paying half his wages it seems a no brainer.

[Marc Overmars]

No obligation to buy either which is good.

I think it’s a good deal overall, a bit left field granted but if the club felt they couldn’t find the right player up front then I’m happy to keep the powder dry. We’ve sold well too which likely means we will be in a better position to push the boat out next time. Let’s not forget the existing squad scored a shit ton of goals last season and was one result away from the title, so I’m not as irritated about the lack of a striker as I usually would be.

Sterling can be a bit of scruffy player at times but I wouldn’t judge him based on his time at Chelsea because they’ve been a joke. In the right structure he’s proven to be very good and I’m sure Arteta can get more out of him like he did at City. He isn’t going to be someone who will be fannying around outside the box, he’ll make the late runs to get on the end of a cut back or cross and he’s always a danger with his one on one ability.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Sterling was a 20 goal a season player before he went to Chelsea, let's hope having a settled squad and better manager will bring out the best in him this season.

I still don't think this was good ending to the window for us, needed at least one more player up front.
Let's hope they do something in Jan

[dostoy]

If this is all true then Chelsea are crazy.

They bought Sterling for £50m 2 years ago. They have 'given' him to Arsenal for a season AND they are paying about half his wages to play for Arsenal.

What are they thinking ?

[Letters]

Chelsea are a very silly club and have been for some time

[HCZ_Reborn]

Chelsea are a very silly club and have been for some time

Maybe I’m naturally inpatient but for me it feels like I’ve been waiting forever for that scumbag club to get what’s coming to it. Relegation and eventual liquidation.

Man City deserve relegation and it’s titles to be scrubbed (not given to the second place team I don’t buy into that shit, the season should just stand as the title being scrubbed) but actually, I don’t mind City as a club historically and I’d feel bad for the fans who stuck around when it was in the third division for the club to go out of existence.


Chelsea? Their fans are troglodytes. Probably cry for five minutes and then pretend they were always Fulham fans

[Letters]

Man City deserve relegation and it’s titles to be scrubbed (not given to the second place team I don’t buy into that shit, the season should just stand as the title being scrubbed)
I largely agree although I would note that these charges were hanging over City all last season.
So if they did award us the title after the fact then...well, it would be a bit weird. It certainly wouldn't feel like a normal title win. But we deserved the title last season and had we not been up against a side who have been blatantly cheating* for years we'd have walked it

*that is true whether they have just about technically stayed within the rules of the game or not.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Give us the titles tbf.

But not Liverpool and Man United.

Nah it depends, they could just end up being found out on the most frivolous charges, the grass being too long.

If it is the worst stuff then I think it should be stripping the titles but the players still keep their winners medals.

Realistically I think the Premier League wouldn't have the balls to do that and leave gaps on the trophy, this league is all about image.

Probably points deduction over multiple seasons? I dunno.

At least the case is being heard in this coming month I think, finally.

[dazthegooner]

Nah the Premier League will bottle it apologising for all Man City have been put through and award them 115 points spread over the next 10 seasons.

[Letters]

Nah the Premier League will bottle it apologising for all Man City have been put through and award them 115 points spread over the next 10 seasons.

:haha:

Depressingly plausible

[Mac76]

Chelsea are a very silly club and have been for some time

This

[Mac76]

against a side who have been blatantly cheating* for years we'd have walked it

*that is true whether they have just about technically stayed within the rules of the game or not.

Good luck in court

[Mac76]

BTW I'd rather Citeh kept their titles than Spuds be given anything, they have to be a zero club for evermore

[HCZ_Reborn]

BTW I'd rather Citeh kept their titles than Spuds be given anything, they have to be a zero club for evermore

What would spurs win? The last time they finished second…Chelsea were champions

Unless we are talking of stripping city of league cup wins. League cup is a nothing trophy anyway

Plus I don’t see why stripping city of these titles and cups means awarding them to anyone else

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

TBH I'd also prefer they just stripped them of the titles and gave them to no one.

Anyway the whole thing seems so silly now as they've waited too long to administer justice.

[WMUG]

I've said it on here before, but my ideal scenario is that MCFC as it exists today is dissolved and its assets transferred to a democratic, fan-owned trust.
Who would then have to enter at the 10th division, just as Bury, Wimbledon, Macclesfield, Hereford and plenty of others did.

I want to live in a world where Man City vs Maine Road FC is a real thing.

[Letters]

That would be bloody amazing. Obviously not going to happen.

[WMUG]

We live in hope.

It's worth pointing out that relegation to the Championship would be totally inadequate.

When it happened to Juventus, they just came straight back up and 5 years later, started a run of 10 titles in a row.

The only thing that would be different with City is that they wouldn't take as long to start that run.

That's essentially getting off scot-free despite fundamentally undermining the game.

I think the minimum I could accept would be a forced sale of the club, a la Abramovich, and relegation to League 2.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Hmm dunno current FS rules means it would be hard for them, they might get back into the premier league but most of their stars would leave and they wouldn’t be able to overspend in order to replace them. That’s why Newcastle despite having billionaire owners haven’t been really able to push on

[Letters]

That's essentially getting off scot-free despite fundamentally undermining the game.
The game have enabled this.
They creation of the PL, the expansion of the CL, the aggressive marketing of the PL and CL worldwide.
These things are intended to generate huge amounts of money and the effect is to tip the scales ever more in favour of the haves.
The creation of the PL means the gap between the money in that league and the rest is such that teams coming up into it spend all season desperately trying to stay in it, often failing. And the golden parachute payments mean you can get teams yo-yoing between the divisions.
The expansion of the CL means you can now have a group of teams at the top of each league who can, with decent management, stay there year on year.

Chelsea couldn't have done what they did without a billionaire sugar-daddy buying their way in to the top table. Same with City.
I'd love it (just love it) if City were relegated into oblivion. Obviously won't happen, but it would be brilliant.
But you're just treating the symptom not the cause.

The issue with all this - apart from just how much it costs to go and watch football now - is predictability. Before the season started we all knew that City would probably win the title, Arsenal had a chance and no-one else was that likely to be in contention. Obviously there will be some bumps in the road along the way but long gone are the days when you just had no idea who would win the title. In the 60s there were 8 different champions - only Liverpool and Utd won 2. This century (which we're now nearly a quarter of the way through, eek!) there have only been 6 different champions, and one of those was Leicester who were very much an outlier. Predictability is the death of sport.

[Marc Overmars]

We’ve had an offer of 35m from Saudi for Trossard.

Would be incredibly pissed off if we accepted it.

[Mac76]

We’ve had an offer of 35m from Saudi for Trossard.

Would be incredibly pissed off if we accepted it.

Likewise and I'd also be disappointed in him if he wanted to go, I thnk he surely wants to fight for a PL title and potentially a cup or two rather than play in a meaningless league

[Mac76]

Before the season started we all knew that City would probably win the title, Arsenal had a chance and no-one else was that likely to be in contention. Obviously there will be some bumps in the road along the way but long gone are the days when you just had no idea who would win the title. In the 60s there were 8 different champions - only Liverpool and Utd won 2. This century (which we're now nearly a quarter of the way through, eek!) there have only been 6 different champions, and one of those was Leicester who were very much an outlier. Predictability is the death of sport.

Liverpool are showing every sign that they will compete this season (and therefore are supporting my much-rubbished prediction that they would beat Arsenal into second place ;)) so that's three teams (assuming we don't throw it away early) competing but as to your main point, yes Citeh will win, especially with Haaland in this kind of form - all very predictable and not what it should be like

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t know, don’t get me wrong no team had even won four titles in a row before City but for a time when the league wasn’t dominated by one team you as you just have, had to go back sixty years

Yes between 1975 and 1999 you had nine different teams win the title compared to six between 2000 and 2024

But you still had the likes of Liverpool winning it three times in a row, and winning ten titles between 1976 and 1990


Things are even worse now granted, but to claim that things were ever any different you’d have to go back to a time before any of us were alive which you accept yourself.

[Marc Overmars]

Likewise and I'd also be disappointed in him if he wanted to go, I thnk he surely wants to fight for a PL title and potentially a cup or two rather than play in a meaningless league

I mean if they doubled that then we’d be silly not to consider it because every player has a price.

I’m ok with him having a chip on his shoulder but I just hope Arteta and the club do enough to ensure he’s committed.

[Letters]

Yes between 1975 and 1999 you had nine different teams win the title compared to six between 2000 and 2004
That was a good trick ;)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Liverpool are showing every sign that they will compete this season (and therefore are supporting my much-rubbished prediction that they would beat Arsenal into second place ;)) so that's three teams (assuming we don't throw it away early) competing but as to your main point, yes Citeh will win, especially with Haaland in this kind of form - all very predictable and not what it should be like

I think Liverpool may look like title challengers early on, but where we lack depth up front…they lack it (as well as quality) in too many key areas….yesterday’s game was every reflection on how shit United are. The only area of the park where we are not superior to Liverpool is up front. Even with Partey being finished our midfield is better, our defence is miles better, I think we are at a point where our goalkeeper is better. Martinelli has been poor on current form but I think either he or Trossard are better than Gakpo and Saka is better than probably all of their forward players barring Salah (and if he gets injured they are truly screwed)

Comparing Slot to Arteta, well Arteta as a coach is between poor and average at best….haven’t seen enough of Slot to judge but it’s a big gamble putting someone who has only ever coached in the Eredivise to replace Klopp

[Letters]

Liverpool are showing every sign that they will compete this season
It's 3 games. Do we really have to have this every season where after literally a few games people start getting excited about a certain team.
I'd be surprised if they seriously compete - they looked like they were going to last year till about Easter, remember, before falling away.
Let's see where we are around Christmas. But even if they do compete, that's still 3 clubs who you'd expect to be fairly well above "the rest". It shouldn't be like that year on year.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m thinking you don’t start a player you intend to sell, so this Trossard story is bollocks imo.

Maybe they enquired about his availability after the Villa game but got no further than he’s not for sale

[KSE Comedy Club]

We’ve had an offer of 35m from Saudi for Trossard.

Would be incredibly pissed off if we accepted it.

Well, we would be totally fucked if we do accept.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I’m thinking you don’t start a player you intend to sell, so this Trossard story is bollocks imo.

Maybe they enquired about his availability after the Villa game but got no further than he’s not for sale

They submitted the bid today.

We have rejected it though.

[HCZ_Reborn]

They submitted the bid today.

We have rejected it though.

They may have submitted the bid today, but I imagine they probably were in contact before that

[Mac76]

It's 3 games. Do we really have to have this every season where after literally a few games people start getting excited about a certain team.
I'd be surprised if they seriously compete - they looked like they were going to last year till about Easter, remember, before falling away.
Let's see where we are around Christmas. But even if they do compete, that's still 3 clubs who you'd expect to be fairly well above "the rest". It shouldn't be like that year on year.

I think Klopp's 'heavy metal football' tired them out, by all accounts Slot is someone who will manage games better and preserve their energy.

I see real light in their players' eyes again

[HCZ_Reborn]

Loads of the players who were part of that 2019/2020 title winning side aren’t even there. Alisson nor Van Dijk are the players they were. They over rely on Salah and in all three games this season they have looked vulnerable from set pieces and lucky that their opponents were wasteful.

Jota gets injured as often as Jesus does, despite his Euro showing Gakpo is average. So is Hungarian Copy and Paste and Argentinian Aaron Ramsey. We will see where Liverpool are come two months down the line.

I know doom mongering is your new thing, but I can see the light in their eyes again is feeble even for you :lol:

[Mac76]

Allison's been excellent so far and Van Dyke is still one of the best CBs in the country

try actually watching them play - I watched them against Moan Ure yesterday - you can say all you like about Casemiro, it still took a ruthless and on form team to exploit his cock-ups so well

It looks to me like they're glad to see the back of Klopp, they all look fresh and up for it

[HCZ_Reborn]

Allison's been excellent so far and Van Dyke is still one of the best CBs in the country

try actually watching them play - I watched them against Moan Ure yesterday - you can say all you like about Casemiro, it still took a ruthless and on form team to exploit his cock-ups so well

It looks to me like they're glad to see the back of Klopp, they all look fresh and up for it

Who has Van Dyke played so far to test that, he got absolutely taken apart when they last came to the Emirates because he gets turned easily. Allison is not the player he was and still looks uncertain as does that entire defence from set pieces

It looks to me that you’re full of shit, Klopp was in my view the best coach in the premier league by some distance. And this was especially evident that he took this team with a few still decent players in it and a whole lot of average and they were in the title race till April.

I saw the game yesterday, I’ve also seen both Brighton and Bournemouth take apart United at home. Like I say if they are still showing this kind of form in November, I might concede that this bald Dutchman might have something about him. But so far he’s just inherited a strong team, and like David Moyes when he went to United looks to be waiting for a decent team to put them back in their place.

[Mac76]

Who has Van Dyke played so far to test that, he got absolutely taken apart when they last came to the Emirates because he gets turned easily. Allison is not the player he was and still looks uncertain as does that entire defence from set pieces

It looks to me that you’re full of shit, Klopp was in my view the best coach in the premier league by some distance. And this was especially evident that he took this team with a few still decent players in it and a whole lot of average and they were in the title race till April.

I saw the game yesterday, I’ve also seen both Brighton and Bournemouth take apart United at home. Like I say if they are still showing this kind of form in November, I might concede that this bald Dutchman might have something about him. But so far he’s just inherited a strong team, and like David Moyes when he went to United looks to be waiting for a decent team to put them back in their place.

i'll ignore the common abuse and remind myself to look at onilne Arsenal ;)

as for Klopp i said nothing to imply that he wasn't a good manager, I'm not the only one saying a shift to a more measured approach rather than his full-on style might well suit the squad at this time

Meanwhile your claims about players such as Gakpo are completely baseless, that squad's a lot stronger than people seem to think

[HCZ_Reborn]

i'll ignore the common abuse and remind myself to look at onilne Arsenal ;)

as for Klopp i said nothing to imply that he wasn't a good manager, I'm not the only one saying a shift to a more measured approach rather than his full-on style might well suit the squad at this time

Meanwhile your claims about players such as Gakpo are completely baseless, that squad's a lot stronger than people seem to think

What abuse, I’m saying you’re talking shit that somehow Liverpool players are glad to be not being coached by Klopp. Against Ipswich they changed things up at half time because Ipswich were causing them problems and arguably should have been ahead, Brentford gave them problems in defence and United in terms of performance had to be the shittest team they played, despite it constantly not working for them they continued time and time again to try and play out.

It’s to Slot’s credit that he’s flexible with changing things up tactically, but I remember Emery being the same with us when he was first here

The baseless claim is that Gakpo is somehow a good player based on a few goals and ok performance in the Euros (which I’ll remind you he scored the same amount of goals as Kane who you excoriated). I’m saying both Trossard and Martinelli are better players than him…I don’t think that’s controversial.

I think the only player that stands out above what we have in attack is Salah. Compare it to the Liverpool side of five years ago and it falls well short.

[Niall_Quinn]

Heard we loaned that Sterling shit-kicker. Still trying to figure out why. Heard the useless git took a pay-cut. Good for him. Shows he wants to contribute. Trouble is, he's not capable. Silly deal.

[Mac76]

What abuse, I’m saying you’re talking shit

actually no you said "you’re full of shit," which is direct abuse aimed at me personally, not what I said


Against Ipswich they changed things up at half time because Ipswich were causing them problems

err, so they did what a good team does then and step up another gear to win the game?


Brentford gave them problems in defence

:haha: pathetic


he scored the same amount of goals as Kane who you excoriated)

Kane's goals were the usual tap-ins inside the box, pels etc, Gakpo made and scored some top-level goals




I think the only player that stands out above what we have in attack is Salah

so you didn't notice that Diaz has now scored 3 goals over 3 games?

That's better than any of our players

[HCZ_Reborn]

You are full of shit, I think we’ve reached the point where that’s not abusive just a statement of fact. I’m happy to evidence it.

Diaz has scored three goals in three games, that’s like saying because Nketiah scored two goals in our opening three games last season, he’s better than Havertz who scored none in that time.

The point which you again you miss, is that Ipswich is hardly one of the strongest teams, its going to get relegated and if it can cause Liverpool issues, you can only imagine what a capable team might do. And Brentford absolutely did cause that Liverpool defence problems, did Liverpool dominate both the game and chances? Yes of course it did…but you know as well as I do that this doesn’t necessarily win you games especially if you’re sloppy at the back.


Gakpo scored one decent goal in the Euros against Romania and even then, I’d argue the keeper should have done better. France and England were both terrible in the Euros and against them Gakpo was completely anonymous. He might stand out in that Dutch side because that Dutch side is average, but that doesn’t make him anything special.


Listen I get it, you’re suffering from emotional incontinence because you’re worried that because this has been a poor transfer window (I agree, it has) that somehow Liverpool winning three from three (against easier opposition than we’ve played) that they might finish above us. I can’t tell you for definite it won’t happen, we might get an outbreak of cholera in the training camp, a plane carrying our match day squad for an away day champions league match might crash into the alps.

Seriously though, it’s possible…Arteta is a poor coach that we are saddled with, but a) we’ve got a better squad than them and b) three games in league football is a ridiculously short amount of time to draw any conclusion about how good a team is.

[Mac76]

You are full of shit


You might think what i say is generally inaccurate (which to say that's throwing stones in glass houses is a huge understatement as your predictions on here are famously inaccurate to the point of farce) but it's a fact that a phrase such as "you're full of shit" is abuse and if you said it to, for example, a shop employee they'd have the right to report it as a Public Order Offence:

" Harassment, alarm or distress.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)uses threatening [F1or abusive] words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/5


and basically where I'm using evidence, such as Gakpo's obviously good form in the summer and Diaz's obviously good form in the PL so far, you're just saying "lalala that's all irrelevant because HCZ is right"

not much of an argument is it...?

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m disputing the basis on how you’re determining good form and the implications you’re making in terms of comparing them to us, I think Diaz is a good player but saying he’s scored three goals when other players in our team hasn’t as evidence of superiority or even parity of quality based on a small sample of games is pretty silly.

Your argument about Gakpo is an opinion, it’s one I dispute. I don’t think the Euros proved him to be a top player. He wasn’t terrible, but again in my opinion when he played the top sides he was conspicuous by his absence of influence on the game

Abuse is a subjective term, if you find what I say to you abusive, I can only say that’s your problem. It’s not intended as abuse, it’s intended as an observation of what you argue but mainly how you argue. Maybe take your own advice that you dole out to me often enough and stop being so sensitive


The shop owner situation would be totally dependent on the context in which I used it, if they accused me of shoplifting and provided no evidence with which to make that assertion and I said they were full of shit…I sincerely doubt any police officer is going to take action against me for saying it…let alone a vexatious claim of shoplifting where at most they might ask me to empty my pockets to humour the shopkeeper

[Mac76]

Abuse is a subjective term



Wrong again, most people find 'shit' to be an offensive word therefore you should have the objective expectation that directing at someone will cause offense https://www.indy100.com/viral/british-swear-word-ranked-offensiveness-2659905092

my view on Gakpo is not an opinion it's a statement based on evidence, not least of which is that Gakpo was in Opta's team of the Euros :lol: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c87rvrxd08lo

funny, no Kane though ;)

and re Diaz, as for "saying he’s scored three goals when other players in our team hasn’t as evidence of superiority or even parity of quality based on a small sample of games is pretty silly. "

it's less silly than saying he's not very good after he's scored three goals, especially when the quality of said goals is considered

This proves there's only one person here who's full of anything, but I'm too polite to say it ;)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Wrong again, most people find 'shit' to be an offensive word therefore you should have the objective expectation that directing at someone will cause offense https://www.indy100.com/viral/british-swear-word-ranked-offensiveness-2659905092

my view on Gakpo is not an opinion it's a statement based on evidence, not least of which is that Gakpo was in Opta's team of the Euros :lol: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c87rvrxd08lo

funny, no Kane though ;)

and re Diaz, as for "saying he’s scored three goals when other players in our team hasn’t as evidence of superiority or even parity of quality based on a small sample of games is pretty silly. "

it's less silly than saying he's not very good after he's scored three goals, especially when the quality of said goals is considered

This proves there's only one person here who's full of anything, but I'm too polite to say it ;)

You provide an opinion column to claim you are objectively correct, and once again invoke the some people say rhetoric to back you up. And yet you complain when I say you’re full of shit :lol:


Guehi also made that Team of the tournament, which once again shows that even with statistics it’s hard to make an objective assessment of a players quality. Plus I didn’t dispute that he had a good tournament, I stated that a) he for me produced nothing against the big teams when Netherlands played them and b) that doesn’t make him a top player


Except I’ve never said Diaz isn’t very good, in my last message I explicitly said the opposite, I said the only player that stands head and shoulders above any of our attacking players is Salah. I think Saka is a better player than Diaz, and I think on the form he showed season before last as is Martintelli. That isn’t a negative reflection on Diaz, it’s a reflection that I rate Saka and Martinelli higher.


When I spoke about average players I said Gakpo, the Hungarian whose name I’m not going to try and spell, McAllister etc. They do have a reasonably good attack in that it’s probably just about better than ours on the whole (because of Salah). But in every other area of the pitch we are superior to them, this is what I said originally and this is what I’m saying now

If you need to argue against things I’ve not said, you can do that by yourself

[HCZ_Reborn]

If you want me to break it down so there’s no confusion.

I think Salah is better than any of our attacking players

I think Jota and Diaz are good, Nunez is ok but inconsistent. I think on balance Havertz, Saka and Martinelli are superior but I don’t think there’s loads in it

I think Trossard and Martinelli are better than Gakpo.

I haven’t compared Sterling to anyone because who knows what kind of player we are getting from Chelsea

[Mac76]

You provide an opinion column to claim you are objectively correct

*sigh* wrong again

read more carefully - it's a report of a survey carried out by the UK communications regulator - the very epitome of evidence - as opposed to your BS (note i am saying you are talking BS not that you're full of BS)


for me




Quite - you are doing nothing except voice an opinion whereas Opta is based on stats etc - you constantly maligned Guehi despite many saying he was something of a find for Englad - I'm probably in the middle on that one tbh, but again you're wide of the mark and contrary to fact and most others' opinion

I'm all for minority views but to hurl abuse at me for giving what you consider to be wrong opinoins when they are evidence-based and more mainstream than your own is pure childish throwing-your-toys-out-the-pram

[HCZ_Reborn]

*sigh* wrong again

read more carefully - it's a report of a survey carried out by the UK communications regulator - the very epitome of evidence - as opposed to your BS (note i am saying you are talking BS not that you're full of BS)



Quite - you are doing noting except voice an opinion whereas Opta is based on stats etc - you constantly maligned Guehi despite many saying he was something of a find for Englad - I'm probably in the middle on that one tbh, but again you're wide of the mark and contrary to fact and most others' opinion

I'm all for minority views but to hurl abuse at me for giving what you consider to be wrong opinoins when they are evidence-based and more mainstream than your own is pure childish throwing-your-toys-out-the-pram

:lol: for the final time I haven’t hurled abuse at you. If you perceive it as abuse, after I’ve told you my intent is not abuse….i say it’s your problem. How is a survey any less about peoples opinions. It’s not objective evidence. A majority of Americans believe in Angels, doesn’t make it so. Plus it’s asking people to rank which swear word is the most offensive, if gives you no context. It’s only your opinion that suggest to say someone is talking shit is qualitatively different to them being full of shit. I find either claim to be pretty empty in terms of giving offence

You are (in my view) full of shit because as I say you present opinions as if they are fact. The Opta team of the tournament showed that Gakpo had a good tournament (not something I’ve disputed, I’ve just caveated) if you’re saying an average player has never appeared in a team of a tournament…that would be quite the incredible claim


And to call your claims evidence based is just amusing. You think Gakpo is a top player, I think he rose above the pack of average and got reasonable stats against teams like Poland, Romania and Turkey. Xhaka made the Bundesliga team of the season last season, yet you would object if anyone said he was a good player….so to suggest this is an objective assessment is laughable


And add to that “I can see the light in the players eyes” and that they clearly prefer playing under Slot than Klopp. Your evidence is as specious as your reasoning

[HCZ_Reborn]

Honestly I’d respect you more if you were honest, it’s not like I’ve not seen your proverbial bed shitting on here…”if we lose to Villa we will not be any higher than 7th”. You are worried that not only will we not challenge for the title, we will drop out of the top two. You first made that argument by claiming both Villa and Liverpool had, had better transfer windows than us (and Liverpool hadn’t even signed anyone then :lol:) and now you are acting that Liverpool have undergone this great renaissance and resent it when people like me say “hold on a second”

[Mac76]

:lol: for the final time I haven’t hurled abuse at you.

I've clearly demonstrated that according to the law and to the opinions of the majority of people in this country you've directed abuse towards me, it's beyond question and again if you did it to a tube station employee or a shopworker they'd have the right to have you prosecuted.


Xhaka made the Bundesliga team of the season last season, yet you would object if anyone said he was a good player

No, I've always said he was played out of position for many seasons, which showed up weaknesses like slowness, clumsiness and poor decision making in defence - he demonstrably did well in his final season for Arsenal


How is a survey any less about peoples opinions


a survey used to determine what kind of language is acceptable to be used in public - you know perfectly well what I've said above about saying such things to employees or people in the street is true and you would never in a million years talk to people like that in any scenario where you could be found foul of the law. You're just a classic troll


You think Gakpo is a top player

I think he is a very good player - if we had bought him in the transfer window i'd be very happy and he would IMO raise the quality of the team - are you really saying Martinelli in his continuing poor form is as good? - no way

[HCZ_Reborn]

The law is as I’ve said dependent on context…if you honestly think the police would prosecute someone for using the word shit regardless of context then again you’re only proving my point that you are full of shit. If I said to a shop owner that they were full of shit the most likely thing to happen is that they’d ask me to leave..they are providing a service the only thing you provide is mild amusement, and as I keep saying to you that article is about rankling words by order of offensiveness and even then it’s placed in the medium tier.

Given you can report online abuse, absolutely feel free to report what I’ve said to the police and see what happens. Nothing will happen, so stop this in the eyes of the law nonsense. Equally stop trying to cite an article where people aren’t being asked if they find a word offensive, they are asking how offensive they find the word compared to others

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

:popcorn:

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

[HCZ_Reborn]

And whilst you’re entitled to your belief about Gakpo, I’m sorry but in almost two years at Liverpool I’m not seeing it. In terms of raw pace and trickery he’s inferior to Diaz. Like in the Euros, he’s ok at scoring goals against inferior teams. And given we’ve seen what Martinelli is capable of when he’s not mismanaged…i clearly would take Martinelli over Gakpo. Not only that but absolutely glad we signed Trossard for half the money, Liverpool paid for Gakpo.

Absolutely would not have improved our squad whatsoever


I’m not even going to respond to your argument about Xhaka because that’s clearly dishonest on your part. Your argument wasn’t that he was played out of position, it was that he wasn’t any good. My argument is that he didn’t have the pace or ability to play out of the press to make it in the premier league and he was much better suited to a slower league like the Bundesliga

[HCZ_Reborn]

:popcorn:

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

Well, it’s a decent distraction in an otherwise dull tube journey

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Well, it’s a decent distraction in an otherwise dull tube journeyIs it even a GW argument if you don't mention "army in the streets"?

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

[Letters]

Is it even a GW argument if you don't mention "army in the streets"?
:lol:

Stop stealing my catchphrase!

Nice to curfew, curfew…

[Niall_Quinn]

You might think what i say is generally inaccurate (which to say that's throwing stones in glass houses is a huge understatement as your predictions on here are famously inaccurate to the point of farce) but it's a fact that a phrase such as "you're full of shit" is abuse and if you said it to, for example, a shop employee they'd have the right to report it as a Public Order Offence:

" Harassment, alarm or distress.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)uses threatening [F1or abusive] words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour"

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/5


and basically where I'm using evidence, such as Gakpo's obviously good form in the summer and Diaz's obviously good form in the PL so far, you're just saying "lalala that's all irrelevant because HCZ is right"

not much of an argument is it...?

Wow.

I'm starting to believe "men" really can be women.

This has to be the most cringe post ever to appear on these forums.

[Mac76]

This has to be the most cringe post ever to appear on these forums.

oh come now, you're being far too modest, most if not all of yrou 2am-booze-fulled rants are far more cringeworthy

[Mac76]

:popcorn:

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

ha, but where are you on Gakpo, that's what we want to know?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dusan Vlahovic been linked with a summer move, my personal preference would be depending on how we do between now and January to sign a striker in January. Especially with the Rodri injury, which I think could put us in the box seat for the title especially if we sign a proven goalscorer. I don’t think Vlahovic is fantastic, 79 in 179 appearances for both Juve and Fiorentina is not exactly setting the world alight. But I think we need someone a bit like Giroud who can hold up the ball well but also has a bit of trickery

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.nowarsenal.com/transfer-news/arsenal-show-interest-in-ballon-dor-nominee-as-gabriel-martinellis-replacement/

Though probably not the best of sources, this would be the third best thing that could happen to the club (the 2nd involves getting a striker and the 1st is giving Arteta a public ultimatum).

Like I said in an earlier discussion, Arteta should have trusted his earlier instinct to get someone who would have made Martinelli be our second option on the left.

Lookman is easily one of the best players in the world in the position currently and this is definitely music to the ears. Finally a real goal threat on the left that could result to more double team defending on that flank and more space for anyone going through the middle and even Saka possibly.

He might not be the typical "Jolly green giant" that our coach has wet dreams about, but he definitely could hit the ground running in familiar surroundings.

I could start forgiving him if he pulled this off in January though TBH it would be crazy for Atalanta to sell their best player mid-season.

[Mac76]

well he might be useful but we need an out-and-out striker first and foremost - you can have as many people as you lke putting in crosses, but if there's no one there to put them away it doesn't get you very far

I don't think Trossard does a bad job on the left in any case although he drifts in a bit more and I guess he's not getting any younger

on which note I really do hope we win something this year, even if it's just the League Cup, people like him deserve that big day out at a final and to win something

[HCZ_Reborn]

The main issue on the left is whoever plays there suffers from a lack of service, Odegaard is placed on the right hand side of central midfield, and to be honest against most teams we don’t need to be playing two holding midfielders and generally speaking I think the fact that we do says a lot about why we don’t create as many chances from open play.

Also you look at how someone like Martinelli performs when he has Calafiori playing behind him it’s markedly different than when he has Timber.

I absolutely would not want to be spending money on a player who is 27, and totally reliant on pace (we see what happened to Raheem Sterling when he’s lost his electric pace before 30) and let’s be frank has only ever produced in the Italian league which is much slower than ours. Not to mention a player that we will end up losing for up to a month potentially every two years because of AFCON.

[Marc Overmars]

I would personally look at Nico Williams if we want someone to compete with or even replace Martinelli.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I would personally look at Nico Williams if we want someone to compete with or even replace Martinelli.

Nico would be a dream alternative too...but their is little chance he would choose us over Barca.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The main issue on the left is whoever plays there suffers from a lack of service, Odegaard is placed on the right hand side of central midfield, and to be honest against most teams we don’t need to be playing two holding midfielders and generally speaking I think the fact that we do says a lot about why we don’t create as many chances from open play.

Also you look at how someone like Martinelli performs when he has Calafiori playing behind him it’s markedly different than when he has Timber.

I absolutely would not want to be spending money on a player who is 27, and totally reliant on pace (we see what happened to Raheem Sterling when he’s lost his electric pace before 30) and let’s be frank has only ever produced in the Italian league which is much slower than ours. Not to mention a player that we will end up losing for up to a month potentially every two years because of AFCON.

On the service thing, I think its a little bit overplayed and done on purpose.

What I mean is that so many times (I saw it again on Sunday, though it was Trossard manning the position) when the ball is being driven forward by our CBs, though it is clear as day that both Odegaard and Saka are being doubled teamed, however the ball is still passed to them and most of the time Saka or Odegaard just passes it back to defender, which is actually the main cause of our slow build up play, the endless silly recycling as the defenders do a simple one two and still pass it back to the right.

You will not notice this in highlights but watch the 90 mins and you will see this disturbing pattern over and over again, with Martinelli /Trossard in loads of space and no one willing to pass the ball to them. Trossard does a bit better with this as he usually abandons his position and comes deep for the ball, but I guess thats against Arteta's instructions as Martinelli makes sure he always stays there (probably to ensure the opposition is stretched).

In fact when I think of most of the times we get the ball really fast upfield when a team is playing a deep block, it occurs on the left as smart opposition teams do not waste their resources double teaming there as simple "stay with your man defending" is usually enough to hold us.

Its a pattern I've noticed and I doubt anyone here will say they've ever noticed Saka free in loads of space and not being given the ball.

[IBK]

On the service thing, I think its a little bit overplayed and done on purpose.

What I mean is that so many times (I saw it again on Sunday, though it was Trossard manning the position) when the ball is being driven forward by our CBs, though it is clear as day that both Odegaard and Saka are being doubled teamed, however the ball is still passed to them and most of the time Saka or Odegaard just passes it back to defender, which is actually the main cause of our slow build up play, the endless silly recycling as the defenders do a simple one two and still pass it back to the right.

You will not notice this in highlights but watch the 90 mins and you will see this disturbing pattern over and over again, with Martinelli /Trossard in loads of space and no one willing to pass the ball to them. Trossard does a bit better with this as he usually abandons his position and comes deep for the ball, but I guess thats against Arteta's instructions as Martinelli makes sure he always stays there (probably to ensure the opposition is stretched).

In fact when I think of most of the times we get the ball really fast upfield when a team is playing a deep block, it occurs on the left as smart opposition teams do not waste their resources double teaming there as simple "stay with your man defending" is usually enough to hold us.

Its a pattern I've noticed and I doubt anyone here will say they've ever noticed Saka free in loads of space and not being given the ball.

Interesting points. For me the problem is that we have still not resolved the left 8 position. I don't think Rice or Merino are the answer, and would love to see how Odegard and Nwaneri look as a double pivot, with Rice dropping back to 6. Maybe even Partey playing slightly in front of Rice?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Interesting points. For me the problem is that we have still not resolved the left 8 position. I don't think Rice or Merino are the answer, and would love to see how Odegard and Nwaneri look as a double pivot, with Rice dropping back to 6. Maybe even Partey playing slightly in front of Rice?

:gp: my sentiments exactly

[HCZ_Reborn]

On the service thing, I think its a little bit overplayed and done on purpose.

What I mean is that so many times (I saw it again on Sunday, though it was Trossard manning the position) when the ball is being driven forward by our CBs, though it is clear as day that both Odegaard and Saka are being doubled teamed, however the ball is still passed to them and most of the time Saka or Odegaard just passes it back to defender, which is actually the main cause of our slow build up play, the endless silly recycling as the defenders do a simple one two and still pass it back to the right.

You will not notice this in highlights but watch the 90 mins and you will see this disturbing pattern over and over again, with Martinelli /Trossard in loads of space and no one willing to pass the ball to them. Trossard does a bit better with this as he usually abandons his position and comes deep for the ball, but I guess thats against Arteta's instructions as Martinelli makes sure he always stays there (probably to ensure the opposition is stretched).

In fact when I think of most of the times we get the ball really fast upfield when a team is playing a deep block, it occurs on the left as smart opposition teams do not waste their resources double teaming there as simple "stay with your man defending" is usually enough to hold us.

Its a pattern I've noticed and I doubt anyone here will say they've ever noticed Saka free in loads of space and not being given the ball.

Deleted this post originally, because it makes more sense if it’s explicit that I’m replying to this

Yes I think we all realise that it’s at least partly tactical to concentrate the attacks on the right hand side, I’m not so sure the dig about people watching only highlights really applies to anyone other than Letters who by his own admission watches very few of our games.

Arteta is obsessed in my view with trying to recreate what Xhaka did (which I largely think was overrated) by playing first Havertz and now Rice in this number 8 position. The only thing that could be said for Xhaka and Zinchenko is that their presence did bring Martinelli much more into the game and that is I contend the main reason why he made double figures in the league and why he cuts a far more isolated figure now. It’s not that he doesn’t deserve any criticism, my main frustration with him is his tendency to cut inside when he should far more often take on his full back and get in behind the defence.

But I don’t really see personally how swapping out a winger for another, changes the fact that since the start of last season that the left side doesn’t get serviced by midfielders/inverted full backs anywhere near as much as it was in the 2022/2023 season.

I think if you want to bring in any player other than a striker (which I’m sure we all agree is our priority) it would be a more attack minded central midfielder because as I said for most games we simply do not need to be starting with two holding players (for sure bring another one on to help defend leads)

Although id argue the preferential thing would be to start Odegaard and Nwaneri together

Then if we sign a wide player at all it should be on the right so we are not constantly playing Russian roulette with Saka’s fitness….i think one of few things we probably agree on is that Kudus would be a good signing for us (although that I think would be more of a summer thing)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

One thing to clarify, the "highlights statement" wasn't a dig at anyone, and honestly I doubt Letters is the only one who only watches highlights nowadays. For most of the latter AW years, I mostly watched highlights as I had gotten tired of investing so much in a team I knew was going no where.

Simply put though, you can't notice how slow our buildup play is on highlights and probably a lot of other things wrong with the team if you base your view solely on what they capture.

[HCZ_Reborn]

One thing to clarify, is the "highlights statement" wasn't a dig at anyone, and honestly I doubt Letters is the only one who only watches highlights nowadays. For most of the latter AW years, I mostly watched highlights as I had gotten tired of investing so much in a team I knew was going no where.

Simply put though, you can't notice how slow our buildup play is on highlights and probably a lot of other things wrong with the team if you base your view solely on what they capture.

Again I’m only going by the comments I see on here but I don’t think anyone fails to appreciate the slowness of our buildup play. It’s not only having too many holding players, sometimes having Odegaard as the only attack minded central midfielder means you have two or three players on him and he will invariably end up passing it backwards


If I’ve only seen the highlights of a game it’s because I’ve been busy either at work (and I do more often than I care for work at the weekend, although I can’t really complain as it’s out of choice to get things done that I can’t get done during the week because I’m being bothered by others). It’s also something I’ve made a point about saying for ages, that getting a striker is only one part of the problem…we need to be getting the ball forward in a more timely fashion. I think turning the left back into an ad hoc midfielder certainly doesn’t help with this in my view

[Mac76]

Nico would be a dream alternative too...but their is little chance he would choose us over Barca.

I wouldn't entirely rule it out - one of Arteta's talents does seem to be to convince good players to join Aresenal - albeit sometimes, it appears, by BS-ing them to think they'll get more minutes than he actually intends to give them, though I'm sure Williams would be a regular starter if we got him)

tbf in some cases he can point to improvements in players (although Martinelli is a case where he can't)

[HCZ_Reborn]

On the whole I get the impression Arteta thinks of attacking and goal scoring as a secondary concern and making sure teams can’t score against us is the bigger issue for him. Two attacking players I’d say he’s unquestionably improved are Odegaard and Havertz. Saka? Hard to say how much of that is Arteta’s tutelage or natural progression as a player. With him I remember the one bit of advice Wenger gave him when he came back to the club to meet the players…learn to be comfortable using both feet (still a work in progress I feel, however maybe a tad harsh as he’s excelled admirably with just the one)

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/eduardohagn/status/1866616416029511789?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

If he uses this current injury problem as an excuse to bring in even more defenders, then I’m going to lobby parliament to make an amendment to the assisted dying bill to make it compulsory for mentally deranged football coaches

[Letters]

One thing to clarify, the "highlights statement" wasn't a dig at anyone
I never thought it was :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I never thought it was :lol:

He has in the past had a tendency to suggest that people who disagree with him about a game haven’t watched the game fully

[Letters]

I don't think it's unreasonable to assert that if you watch the whole game then you will see more than on the highlights.
And, while we're here, you see different things when you're at the ground which you don't see on TV (and vice versa).

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

He has in the past had a tendency to suggest that people who disagree with him about a game haven’t watched the game fully

Nope, I've only done it to you once (which should be more than enough for any grownup)...and IIRC that was after you admitted you did player ratings based solely on highlights....which I still believe is questionable.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't think it's unreasonable to assert that if you watch the whole game then you will see more than on the highlights.
And, while we're here, you see different things when you're at the ground which you don't see on TV (and vice versa).

Yes but what it’s not reasonable to do is to suggest that if someone has a different point of view from you on a game that it must be because they only watched the highlights (when in fact in these instances they may well have watched the whole game). Although that’s also kind of academic as in this instance he was suggesting that because he saw more of the games than the rest of us (not sure how he evidences this) he was able to assert something about the team that we might have missed, when in fact I’m pretty sure most of us accept completely that our build up play is too slow at times

Unless I’m up in the stands somewhere in the middle, I’m likely to see different things depending on the half. Fucked if I can see that clearly the other end of the pitch if I’m in the lower stands, then again I remember a game I watched ten years ago where we beat Liverpool 4-1….and I was screaming blue murder that Hector Bellerin had got the ball and that Anthony Taylor was a cheating cunt. Watched the tv highlights? Stonewall pel and clumsy from Bellerin :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Yes but what it’s not reasonable to do is to suggest that if someone has a different point of view from you on a game that it must be because they only watched the highlights (when in fact in these instances they may well have watched the whole game). Although that’s also kind of academic as in this instance he was suggesting that because he saw more of the games than the rest of us (not sure how he evidences this) he was able to assert something about the team that we might have missed, when in fact I’m pretty sure most of us accept completely that our build up play is too slow at times.
.........


:lol: What instance?? I made it as clear as possible that its something I've noticed overtime and that it repeated itself on Sunday with Trossard there, but I clearly wasn't being specific about much and definitely didn't know you weren't able to watch the game ... but honestly who cares.

Watching the game however you choose to watch it doesn't make anyone a better fan or anyone's argument correct ....if thats what you need to me to say.

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol: What instance?? I made it as clear as possible that its something I've noticed overtime and that it repeated itself on Sunday with Trossard there, but I clearly wasn't being specific about much and definitely didn't know you weren't able to watch the game ... but honestly who cares.

Watching the game however you choose to watch it doesn't make anyone a better fan or anyone's argument correct ....if thats what you need to me to say.

No but if I say to you “how did you not see that, you must really try and watch the whole game rather than snippets” it’s an undue assumption. And apart from anything else, in this particular instance you’re only making an observation that people have made many times before anyway.

It feels to me a little presumptuous not to mention passive aggressive is all I’m saying

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

No but if I say to you “how did you not see that, you must really try and watch the whole game rather than snippets” it’s an undue assumption. And apart from anything else, in this particular instance you’re only making an observation that people have made many times before anyway.

It feels to me a little presumptuous not to mention passive aggressive is all I’m saying

Its like you are hearing voices or something....please show me exactly where I said that in that tone

[HCZ_Reborn]

As for the match ratings.... I think you guys should only do them when you actually watch the game and not rely on highlights.

This was a response you gave to one of my post match player ratings posts. A clear insinuation that I can’t have watched the game fully (I had).

[Niall_Quinn]

Buy the #9 from Sporting. Seriously - do that and the league is in the bag.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Buy the #9 from Sporting. Seriously - do that and the league is in the bag.

:gp: Yup, Gyokeres fan too. Totally agree with this.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This was a response you gave to one of my post match player ratings posts. A clear insinuation that I can’t have watched the game fully (I had).

Lol, the same post I referenced earlier which I guessed (correctly) was what you were still hurting from. Also IIRC you stated clearly that you were not watching the game at that time.

Anyway its clear this is not a grownup discussion anymore, so I'll leave you to sulk as much as you want to despite my explanations that everyone gets except you.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Lol, the same post I referenced earlier which I guessed (correctly) was what you were still hurting from. Also IIRC you stated clearly that you were not watching the game at that time.

Anyway its clear this is not a grownup discussion anymore, so I'll leave you to sulk as much as you want to despite my explanations that everyone gets except you.

I was working that weekend but I had watched the whole game before making the post.

No I just notice patterns with people, I don’t think I made that big a deal of it at the time but the fact that you brought it up again suggested you were making a dig (in the pursuit of making a point that everyone had already noticed anyway)

If you can’t find the maturity to own up to what you clearly were doing, seems a tad hypocritical to be speaking about wanting a mature conversation.

I do at least admit when I’m being antagonistic