2023/2024 Season prediction

[HCZ_Reborn]

Basically just a chance here for people to state how they think we will do and who will win the other prizes, who will be relegated etc


Where will Arsenal finish? : 2nd


Premier League Champions: Manchester City


Who will finish in top 4? : Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle


Europa League positions : Man United and Aston Villa


European Conference league: Tottenham


What’s your predicted lineup for Arsenal in first competitive game:


Ramsdale, Zinchenko, Gabriel, White, Timber, Havertz, Rice, Odegaard, Martinelli, Saka, Jesus


Relegated teams: Wolves, Luton and Bournemouth


Promoted from the Championship (including play off): Leeds, Middlesborough and Coventry


Champions League Winner: Bayern Munich


Europa League Winner: Liverpool


FA cup winner: Manchester United


League cup winner: Manchester United


Our player of the season: Martinelli or Saliba


Most likely newcomer: Marquinhos

[Niall_Quinn]

Fans will spend a lot of money and the players and executives will get richer.

[Letters]

Fans will spend a lot of money and the players and executives will get richer.
Really sticking your neck out with that one!

[Niall_Quinn]

Really sticking your neck out with that one!

I'm focusing on the fundamentals.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm focusing on the fundamentals.

A fundamentalist? Who knew

[KSE Comedy Club]

We will win the league - 100%

[HCZ_Reborn]

We will win the league - 100%

I would say a bold prediction even if made in jest but the fact is no one is going to bother checking what people’s predictions were

[WMUG]

Was there a similar thread last year?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Was there a similar thread last year?

Yes, yes there was (though I didn’t start it)

[KSE Comedy Club]

I would say a bold prediction even if made in jest but the fact is no one is going to bother checking what people’s predictions were

Yes I know, call me crazy but I see it as the next step in our evolution. We went from nearly finishing top 4, to finishing top 4. Now we have nearly won the league to........ :shrug:

We came close last time, this time, we will cross that line next time.

[Marc Overmars]

Nothing anyone does this summer will usurp City as favourites, but the way we’re moving suggests our goal is to win the league and I hope the experience of last season has taught them some valuable lessons and left them battle hardened.

I think we’ve got to have a proper tilt at least one of the cups because if we’re going to be seen as a destination club then silverware will be required and there’s no reason why we shouldn’t be capable of winning either cup.

A CL quarter final is also what I want to see because we haven’t competed in one since 2010. So that would be something reasonable to aim for. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re exposed for making up the numbers again given our weak European pedigree.

[Mac76]

Going with the list of 22-23 predictions (subbing EL for CL), mine are:

League Position: 4th
Champions League: pretty early exit I suspect
FA Cup: 5th round
League Cup: 3rd round
Mind the gap?: Yes
Our top scorer: That new striker we're hopefully signing
Most assists: Saka
Breakthrough player: Balogun if we keep him (though I realise Arteta is hell bent on selling him)

[Globalgunner]

Going with the list of 22-23 predictions (subbing EL for CL), mine are:

League Position: 4th
Champions League: pretty early exit I suspect
FA Cup: 5th round
League Cup: 3rd round
Mind the gap?: Yes
Our top scorer: That new striker we're hopefully signing
Most assists: Saka
Breakthrough player: Balogun if we keep him (though I realise Arteta is hell bent on selling him)

I pretty much see it the same way. By Xmas we will have given up all hopes of winning the league. Guaranteed

[Chippy]

I pretty much see it the same way. By Xmas we will have given up all hopes of winning the league. Guaranteed

Better than making us think we could win it then fucking it up in April. 🔔 Ends.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My first draft of a league table prediction which isn’t all that different from last season. Actually buy a striker and I might even be inclined to predict we finish first. Few changes from my prediction where i opened the thread, I don’t think Liverpool will get top four, I think Everton rather than Wolves will be relegated

1st Manchester City

2nd Arsenal

3rd Manchester United

4th Newcastle

5th Liverpool

6th Aston Villa

7th Chelsea

8th Brighton

9th Tottenham

10th Fulham

11th Burnley

12th West Ham

13th Crystal Palace

14th Brentford

15th Wolves

16th Nottingham Forest

17th Sheffield United

18th Everton

19th Luton

20th Bournemouth

[Mac76]

I think our final place is very difficult to call although it won't be first, Citeh will win the league

it's only because Moan U are still a bit shaky and Liverpool need to improve so sharply that I think second is even possible, but I wouldn't rule out us having to fight a bit even for top four

I think your teams from 10th - 14th will be very difficult to call in terms of what order but broadly you're probably right, although if Fulham lose Mitro they could be much nearer the bottom

I don't get your Bournemouth prediction, they are half decent in reality

Luton will be rock bottom

[Marc Overmars]

I think City could be a little vulnerable this year. They’ve lost a few important players and you’ve got to think that after winning a treble there could be a drop off because it can’t really get that much better. No one has ever won it 4 times in a row too.

Saying that, they’re still going to be ridiculously strong and anyone who finishes above them will certainly win the league.

This is definitely the most intrigued I’ve felt heading into a season for a while. I’d like to think we’re on the cusp of doing something special but we’ll find out soon enough.

I want to see more composure this year, killing games dead. None of these wild matches that we go life and death in. That’s almost certain to end in tears eventually.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think our final place is very difficult to call although it won't be first, Citeh will win the league

it's only because Moan U are still a bit shaky and Liverpool need to improve so sharply that I think second is even possible, but I wouldn't rule out us having to fight a bit even for top four

I think your teams from 10th - 14th will be very difficult to call in terms of what order but broadly you're probably right, although if Fulham lose Mitro they could be much nearer the bottom

I don't get your Bournemouth prediction, they are half decent in reality

Luton will be rock bottom


Statistically when you have a team that far exceeds its XG as Bournemouth has done, it’s an achievement but it’s also a red flag. Bournemouth are a championship team when you look at their squad, and overachieved by staying in the premier league last time.

I happen to like them as a club, but without significant reinforcement you’re asking too much of them I feel.

As depressing as it is, it comes down to spending power and the three clubs I’ve selected for relegation are teams with the least spending power.

Arsenal given what we’ve spent and the value of our squad should really be winning the title let alone challenging for it, we aren’t helping ourselves with the lack of a consistent goalscorer but City are going to be weaker than last season having sold off Gundogan and Mahrez…it’s a squad that isn’t that young…who’s best midfielder is 32 and getting injured more.

The downside is having Arteta who can’t seem to make the right purchases in the transfer window. A lot of money spent on positions where we don’t really need strengthening when the key area other than central midfield was up front (rather than buying a burnt out attacker and shoe horning him into midfield). You get uptight that I scoff about your suggestion that Arteta is lacking in confidence, but silly exchanges aside that’s an example of being ridiculously overconfident…this is someone who thinks he is smarter than he actually is.

I think we have enough depth that as long as Arteta doesn’t insist on using the same players every game that Champions League football won’t have any more bearing on our final league position than the Europa league did.

The fact that we keep being linked with a right sided attacker suggests even he acknowledges that Saka needs competition. Though for me the sensible thing would be to move Jesus there and potentially bring in a Ferran Torres up front.

[Mac76]

You get uptight that I scoff about your suggestion that Arteta is lacking in confidence, but silly exchanges aside that’s an example of being ridiculously overconfident…this is someone who thinks he is smarter than he actually is.


someone can lack the self-esteem to control others via diplomacy and giving them a little rope, but still underneath it all believe they are the smartest guy in the room - the two things aren't mutually exclusive

and regarding "I think we have enough depth that as long as Arteta doesn’t insist on using the same players every game" I'll believe it when i see it

I actually think it could be one of two extremes, either he changes nothing or, with more 'quality' players, he maybe goes the other way and starts constantly chopping and changing to 'outsmart' the opposition manager and ends up creating one big mess

[HCZ_Reborn]

someone can lack the self-esteem to control others via diplomacy and giving them a little rope, but still underneath it all believe they are the smartest guy in the room - the two things aren't mutually exclusive

and regarding "I think we have enough depth that as long as Arteta doesn’t insist on using the same players every game" I'll believe it when i see it

I actually think it could be one of two extremes, either he changes nothing or, with more 'quality' players, he maybe goes the other way and starts constantly chopping and changing to 'outsmart' the opposition manager and ends up creating one big mess

No they are mutually exclusive, if the reason for his lack of diplomacy was lack of self esteem he would not have the self esteem to make the decisions he has, and certainly wouldn’t be so bullish about it either. You’d be too worried about being mocked and ridiculed, that’s how self esteem works…you’re constantly worried about what people think about you. Arteta does not care what people think about him.
People who lack self esteem often look for constant reassurance and validation from others and apart from your let’s be fair nothing burger that Xhaka existed to boost his ego there’s just nothing that suggests he seeks validation/reassurance. I’ve previously suggested he could be narcissistic but I think that was wide of the mark, because for instance I think he would have become defensive over comments around his touchline antics and he’s largely indifferent.
I wouldn’t go as far as to call him Schizoid, but there is a definite lack of interest in forming relationships with people.

[Mac76]

No they are mutually exclusive, if the reason for his lack of diplomacy was lack of self esteem he would not have the self esteem to make the decisions he has, and certainly wouldn’t be so bullish about it either. You’d be too worried about being mocked and ridiculed, that’s how self esteem works…you’re constantly worried about what people think about you. Arteta does not care what people think about him.
People who lack self esteem often look for constant reassurance and validation from others and apart from your let’s be fair nothing burger that Xhaka existed to boost his ego there’s just nothing that suggests he seeks validation/reassurance. I’ve previously suggested he could be narcissistic but I think that was wide of the mark, because for instance I think he would have become defensive over comments around his touchline antics and he’s largely indifferent.
I wouldn’t go as far as to call him Schizoid, but there is a definite lack of interest in forming relationships with people.

wrong again, people who are genuinely confident have no need to bluster and throw their weight about

as Abraham Lincoln said "speak softly and carry a big stick"

Arteta has plenty of power, i.e. the big stick, so he shouldn't need to overreact and make it so public when he disapproves of a player showing any individualism or questionning anything he says

[HCZ_Reborn]

wrong again, people who are genuinely confident have no need to bluster and throw their weight about

as Abraham Lincoln said "speak softly and carry a big stick"

Arteta has plenty of power, i.e. the big stick, so he shouldn't need to overreact and make it so public when he disapproves of a player showing any individualism or questionning anything he says


Again No

I’ve seen no evidence that Arteta has gone massively public about fall outs with players, he’s largely responded to questions put to him and he’s been matter of fact about it. There is no comparison to someone like Mourinho who has publicly attacked players….as narcissism is usually a sign of projecting confidence when there is none. Which I’m glad to see you recognise, but I don’t see that’s what Arteta has done.

And more so, when Auba made the comments he did about Arteta, I don’t recall Arteta making much if any response

I think isolating Auba the way he did was over the top but it seems far more likely that it’s because he had no further use for him in his mind. The common thread if you look at comments from players who have left the club is that Arteta didn’t engage with them at all, which suggested he’d made his mind up what players he rated and which ones he didn’t. And once Arteta doesn’t rate you, he has no reason to give you the time of day.


Don’t get me wrong I don’t think this is a good attitude, and for me it shows someone who isn’t a people person. But there simply isn’t evidence that he lacks confidence and needs an ego massage from anyone.

I think Wenger, Emery, Arteta and now Xabi Alonso are wrong about Xhaka but can you honestly say that Xabi Alonso wanted him at Leverkusen because of this supposed tendency to be obsequious?.

[Mac76]

I'm not necessarily talking about publicly, but there are some examples, e.g. he was publicly heavily criticising Pepe when he got sent off once, despite letting Xhaka off every time he got dismissed

but ok, he doesn't always bluster, sometimes he just as you say freezes people out but again, that's because he hasn't got the confidence to have a quiet word and seek to sort things out, he just ditches them - which is very costly to have good players frozen out like that on a regular basis

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m sorry but you’re reaching, there really isn’t any evidence that suggests a lack of confidence. And ultimately it feels like you’re trying to fill the gap. Where as there is plenty of evidence of him being over confident to the point of hubris.

When you look at Auba he was dropped from the Spurs game in 2021 but that was the extent of it, and this was no different from how any other coach would behave to a disciplinary breach. But he was back in game after that

It was only when Auba got to the point where he couldn’t score in a brothel that Arteta went full no tolerance on him

And it’s quite likely that Arteta (wrongly in my view) considered Xhaka to be more use to him than Pepe in that Leeds game you cited….but even then Pepe wasn’t frozen out, and as much as I’m glad Xhaka is gone he was probably one of our best players that season (which probably illustrates how terrible that season was)

His body language as I said can be closed off and defensive, but I know people who are on the spectrum who have this kind of body language because they aren’t good at interacting with people. And we agree that Arteta isn’t good at interacting with people, where I disagree is the reason for it. I think it’s more that he sees people as expendable.

They often say the difference between men and women is that men are more interested in concepts and things, women are more interested in people. That’s definitely the case if you’re partly autistic (which generally tends to account more for males than females)

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66437506

Arsenal supporting mate often accuses the media of pro Liverpool bias and I think you can see it here. Liverpool are in my view weaker than they were last season, even if they sign Labia and yet somehow they are expected to finish runners up.

I would argue Aston Villa have just as much chance of finishing top four as Liverpool do.

[Marc Overmars]

I’d say it’s based on recent history. Klopp and Liverpool have been a thorn in City’s side for years.

Their attack is still excellent but I’m not sure what’s going on elsewhere. The midfield somehow looks weaker and that was already their weak spot.

[selassie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66437506

Arsenal supporting mate often accuses the media of pro Liverpool bias and I think you can see it here. Liverpool are in my view weaker than they were last season, even if they sign Labia and yet somehow they are expected to finish runners up.

I would argue Aston Villa have just as much chance of finishing top four as Liverpool do.

I would be shocked if Liverpool finish 2nd, don't think they are good enough and they have holes all over their squad, even holes in the first XI in Central Midfield and Central Defence. I don't think they are even guaranteed a top 4 finish.

I am still undecided about us too, squad wise we are closer to City than any other team in my opinion....but....I am not convinced we are going to challenge like last season and think it will take a bit of time for some of the new boys to bed in. I do think we will finish top 4 and quite comfortably, but it could be anywhere from 2nd to 4th IMO.

[mandela8]

I would be shocked if Liverpool finish 2nd, don't think they are good enough and they have holes all over their squad, even holes in the first XI in Central Midfield and Central Defence. I don't think they are even guaranteed a top 4 finish.

I am still undecided about us too, squad wise we are closer to City than any other team in my opinion....but....I am not convinced we are going to challenge like last season and think it will take a bit of time for some of the new boys to bed in. I do think we will finish top 4 and quite comfortably, but it could be anywhere from 2nd to 4th IMO.

I don't think City will be as good as last year either though.

Gvardiol looks great, clearly, but they weren't exactly weak in defense, so I'm not sure how big an improvement he is.

Kovacic is fairly uninspiring.

They've lost some good players in Gundogan & Mahrez.

Looks like they're still looking for another AM but as of now, I'd say they're slightly diminished compared to last season.

[mandela8]

Not to say I think we'll challenge.

I think our true level is closer to the second half of the season, rather than the first.

I don't think the team has been optimized for the money spent either. I think the same money could've been spent on different players for different positions and the team would be a lot stronger than it is now.

Something like...


Partey
Odegaard Paqueta

Jesus Vlahovic* Trossard

Is a lot better than anything we can put out with the current squad, imo. Probably cost less too.

*Even push the boat out for Osinheim and the net spend would still be fairly similar to what is is with Rice, Havertz and Raya. I'd keep Timber in there as RB is clearly a huge problem.

[Mac76]

Not to say I think we'll challenge.

I think our true level is closer to the second half of the season, rather than the first.

I don't think the team has been optimized for the money spent.

I have a similar gut feeling which ultimately comes down to Arteta

First of all his failings in terms of organising the team and giving everyone enough
minutes (I'm expecting him to freeze out at least two significant players next season, one of them being Trossard, due to 'disciplinary' reasons, i.e. their not being happy at being neglected)

Also while I don't dislike the player I think Havertz was a mistake, too much money on a player I feel we didn't need, meamwhile we're crying out for a striker, which leads me onto another huge failing, namely the belief that Eddie is good enough - which he totally ain't

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah Havertz is a bit of a head scratcher.

On one hand a truly top striker is something that’s at a premium currently, Mbappe and Haaland are the current best in the world but after that there really isn’t anyone who comes near that (that’s why Bayern are going for a 30 year old Kane). On the other hand if you look at the purchases Arteta has made they all seem to be majority defenders - Mari, Cedric, Gabriel, Tavares, White, Tomoyasu, Kiwior, Zinchenko and Timber. I make that around 175 million spent purely on defenders. Jesus is the only out and out striker we’ve signed since he’s been here, and he’s not really an out and out striker.

I’m not as negative on the squad as the idiot Scotsman is, I don’t think you can have one of the most valuable squads in the world and it not have a lot of top players in it.

The first half of last season wasn’t achieved with a different set of players, so it surely must follow from that that the players are capable of challenging, scoring goals and being hard to beat.

Speaking to my brother today about Havertz and said that he was more bought for ability to allow us to play a different way and have a player who can hold up the ball as well as offer aerial threat, well that rather depends on where he plays.

If I’m honest I think Timber is an excellent player but I do wonder if he was a signing we actually needed. I actually think we probably don’t just need a striker we need a creative midfielder who can come deep. There are ITK links suggesting Inter will give us Barella for Balogun and Tomoyasu, now that wouldn’t be a bad bit of business but I suspect we will want the cash.

[Marc Overmars]

I think we can challenge again but how much closer we get I’m not sure. Will see how I’m feeling after 10 games or so, if we’re playing well but still conceding goals easily and getting ourselves involved in high scoring affairs then I won’t be confident.

The drama throughout last season was great but it caught up with us in the end. Would rather we became a little more pragmatic in that sense. Especially at home.

[HCZ_Reborn]

In terms of defence, clear to me the system was the issue rather than the players. Especially given that we were excellent away from home defensively (9 clean sheets from 14 games and only 9 goals conceded in that time). At Home the system we play makes us keep an unfeasibly high line which whilst it helps us keep attacking momentum exposes us to pace.

As much as I don’t rate Tomoyasu, arguably losing him was just as much of a blow as losing Saliba. If it had only been Saliba, White could have been moved to centre back and would have helped double up on players attacking down our left hand side.

[mandela8]

I have a similar gut feeling which ultimately comes down to Arteta

First of all his failings in terms of organising the team and giving everyone enough
minutes (I'm expecting him to freeze out at least two significant players next season, one of them being Trossard, due to 'disciplinary' reasons, i.e. their not being happy at being neglected)

Also while I don't dislike the player I think Havertz was a mistake, too much money on a player I feel we didn't need, meamwhile we're crying out for a striker, which leads me onto another huge failing, namely the belief that Eddie is good enough - which he totally ain't

Aye, agreed on Trossard.

He must be looking at Saka and Martinelli and thinking what he has to do to displace them, because it's clearly not based on performance, effectiveness or contributions.
I do think he'll eventually take Martinelli's place most of the time simply because it'll become ridiculous he's not in the team.

Havertz...if he plays midfield then one of Partey or Rice drop out. Despite being better it'd be Partey as you can't spend 100m on a player who doesn't start. But that weakens the team and pressure will inevitably tell.

Like I said, a more natural CM and an elite striker (and Timber) was the optimal way to improve the team, imo.

[Mac76]

Yeah Havertz is a bit of a head scratcher.

On one hand a truly top striker is something that’s at a premium currently, Mbappe and Haaland are the current best in the world but after that there really isn’t anyone who comes near that (that’s why Bayern are going for a 30 year old Kane). On the other hand if you look at the purchases Arteta has made they all seem to be majority defenders - Mari, Cedric, Gabriel, Tavares, White, Tomoyasu, Kiwior, Zinchenko and Timber. I make that around 175 million spent purely on defenders. Jesus is the only out and out striker we’ve signed since he’s been here, and he’s not really an out and out striker.

I’m not as negative on the squad as the idiot Scotsman is, I don’t think you can have one of the most valuable squads in the world and it not have a lot of top players in it.

The first half of last season wasn’t achieved with a different set of players, so it surely must follow from that that the players are capable of challenging, scoring goals and being hard to beat.

Speaking to my brother today about Havertz and said that he was more bought for ability to allow us to play a different way and have a player who can hold up the ball as well as offer aerial threat, well that rather depends on where he plays.

If I’m honest I think Timber is an excellent player but I do wonder if he was a signing we actually needed. I actually think we probably don’t just need a striker we need a creative midfielder who can come deep. There are ITK links suggesting Inter will give us Barella for Balogun and Tomoyasu, now that wouldn’t be a bad bit of business but I suspect we will want the cash.

We absolutey need Timber, to have an alternative to Zin who can actually play this inverted LB thing (given Arteta is insisting on it) without running around like a dickhead and giving the ball away

[HCZ_Reborn]

The inverted left back thing is bullshit though, you know it, I know it. If we want an extra presence in midfield why not play Zinchenko there, have actually suggested as much we wouldn’t get rinsed so much on our left hand side. Timber is going to limit our options going forward and that’s why I wouldn’t play him on the left that much (or to be honest at all, because that would mean playing Ben White on the right and he’s not a fullback…I’d rather use him at centre back to rest Saliba and play Timber or Tomoyasu there)

Don’t get me wrong wouldn’t play Zinchenko there in big games, as silly as playing Xhaka there…not going to deal with the high press, but Martinelli gets the ball more often and in a quicker time frame when that awful Ukrainian plays.


Plus if your argument is based on the assumption that Arteta will use the inverted full back system come what may (which would be a likely correct prediction), you would also have to conclude that Zinchenko will be his first choice to play there when fit.

[Mac76]

The inverted left back thing is bullshit though, you know it, I know it. If we want an extra presence in midfield why not play Zinchenko there, have actually suggested as much we wouldn’t get rinsed so much on our left hand side. Timber is going to limit our options going forward and that’s why I wouldn’t play him on the left that much (or to be honest at all, because that would mean playing Ben White on the right and he’s not a fullback…I’d rather use him at centre back to rest Saliba and play Timber or Tomoyasu there)

Don’t get me wrong wouldn’t play Zinchenko there in big games, as silly as playing Xhaka there…not going to deal with the high press, but Martinelli gets the ball more often and in a quicker time frame when that awful Ukrainian plays.


Plus if your argument is based on the assumption that Arteta will use the inverted full back system come what may (which would be a likely correct prediction), you would also have to conclude that Zinchenko will be his first choice to play there when fit.

Yes the ILB thing is BS, I suppose i'm just trying to be realistic and accept we'll play it, in which case Timber is a better option than Zin, who slows our game down and makes too many mistakes and should be sold

I like the cut of Timber's jib, he has that Saliba-like calmness, though i realise it's not realistic to think Arteta will ever drop Zin if he's fit, he's another teacher's pet I think and can do no wrong in Arteta's eyes

Also I don't agree with your Martinelli point, what i saw last season (watching all home games live) was both Zin and Xhaka regularly ignoring Martinelli and instead passing inside

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes the ILB thing is BS, I suppose i'm just trying to be realistic and accept we'll play it, in which case Timber is a better option than Zin, who slows our game down and makes too many mistakes amd should be sold

I like the cut of Timber's jib, he has that Saliba-like calmness, though i realise it's not realistic to think Arteta will ever drop Zin if he's fit, he's another teacher's pet I think and can do no wrong in Arteta's eyes

Also I don't agree with your Martinelli point, what i saw last season (watching all home games live) was both Zin and Xhaka regularly ignoring Martinelli and instead passing inside


Ah the Teacher’s pet argument again. It’s a strange one unifying theory to rely on when it comes to players you don’t rate.


Rightly or wrongly he specifically earmarked Zinchenko to play that position, I doubt he asked Pep about how good he was at blow jobs.


It would just be easier at this point to accept that he has an infuriating tendency to play certain players to death. Willian wasn’t played constantly because of his willingness to wipe Arteta’s ring piece it was because Arteta wanted to prove what a genius signing he was….it’s the same hubris as underpins Havertz. He thinks he’s smarter and more of a lateral thinker than everyone else, if anything he could do with a lot less confidence and with caring what other people think.

I apologise to other users for recycling this boring argument, but Arteta may be many things but insecure and in need of validation is not one of those things.

[Mac76]

Ah the Teacher’s pet argument again. It’s a strange one unifying theory to rely on when it comes to players you don’t rate.


Rightly or wrongly he specifically earmarked Zinchenko to play that position, I doubt he asked Pep about how good he was at blow jobs.


It would just be easier at this point to accept that he has an infuriating tendency to play certain players to death. Willian wasn’t played constantly because of his willingness to wipe Arteta’s ring piece it was because Arteta wanted to prove what a genius signing he was….it’s the same hubris as underpins Havertz. He thinks he’s smarter and more of a lateral thinker than everyone else, if anything he could do with a lot less confidence and with caring what other people think.

I apologise to other users for recycling this boring argument, but Arteta may be many things but insecure and in need of validation is not one of those things.

Thing is, Hitler reputedly only had one testicle and this was almost certainly, along with his being rejected as an artist, part of his determination to show he was just as much of a man as the next guy, even more so in fact as how many guys could claim to have conquered half of Europe?

He shares the same arrogance and lack of self-reflection you talk about with Arteta and yet you fail to see that at the heart of it all is an essential insecurity

And Hitler had his teacher's pets too...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Thing is, Hitler reputedly only had one testicle and this was almost certainly, along with his being rejected as an artist, part of his determination to show he was just as much of a man as the next guy, even more so in fact as how many guys could claim to have conquered half of Europe?

He shares the same arrogance and lack of self-reflection you talk about with Arteta and yet you fail to see that at the heart of it all is an essential insecurity

And Hitler had his teacher's pets too...


Hitler is something that Arteta does not appear to be, a narcissist. A narcassist would have railed against the criticism of his touchline antics, would have been unable to resist responding to Auba’s criticism. Arteta seems totally indifferent both to praise and criticism. It doesn’t matter what you think, it’s what he thinks that matters.


Plus Everyone was Hitler’s teachers pet….anyone who didn’t address him as “Mein Fuhrer” probably could expect a visit from the Gestapo. Hitler just had people he thought were useful, Rohm was a good ally once until he no longer needed him or the street thugs of the SA…then he was shot in a prison cell after being arrested whilst found in bed with his chauffeur.

Hitler was totally unforgiving of people who he felt were incompetent no matter how obsequious they were. He didn’t really have any friends, and often turned on people….even going back to his days giving stump speeches in Munich beer halls.

Someone can lack self reflection and be insecure, it doesn’t make them synonymous. Hitler was insecure only in the sense that he hated his generals, because he felt they were rich academy trained snobs who looked down on him and resented the advancement of the Wehrmacht at the start of the war and took a more active role.

Arteta doesn’t even seem to have this simmering resentment, what you’re talking about is projecting confidence to mask inner doubt. Arteta doesn’t have the inner doubt, and the only trait he shares with Hitler is a tendency to be callous with those who are no longer useful to him

[Mac76]

You're carefully missing out my main point which was about motivation, what motivated Hitler - essential insecurity

I think Arteta is the same, his thinking is very rigid and black and white because ae he lacks the confidence to think outside the box, and then whe he does * e.g. subbing Odegaard for Kivior) it shows he hasn't a clue

[HCZ_Reborn]

Your problem is you’re starting from the unalterable belief that “X player is objectively bad” and therefore the conclusion must be that this player must only play because they are a boot licker. Now first problem is there are two boot lickers in the squad, Rob Holding and Mo Elneny. They don’t suck up to Arteta individually but to everyone, but like the Alec Baldwin character says in Glengarry Glenross “Nice guy? I don’t give a shit”. Holding is likely to be sold, and Elneny will only play if there’s no other option….why because they are awful players.

Arteta is so convinced of his tactical genius, that I think you could get someone completely pulling apart his tactics and it wouldn’t dent him one bit. Wouldn’t even get cross like “who the fuck are you to question my genius?”. He’d just smile politely, hear the person out and do what he thinks is best. Almost Wenger like in that sense

[HCZ_Reborn]

You're carefully missing out my main point which was about motivation, what motivated Hitler - essential insecurity

I think Arteta is the same, his thinking is very rigid and black and white because ae he lacks the confidence to think outside the box, and then whe he does * e.g. subbing Odegaard for Kivior) it shows he hasn't a clue


No that wasn’t a driver for Hitler at all, Hitler like many dictators is driven by a sense of destiny. People speculate all the time that the Jewish pograms and the Holocaust was driven by a desire for revenge against the Jews because he believed the Jews were the ones who rejected his admission to the Vienna Art Academy. He was motivated by Nietschan philosophy in which he saw himself as the Ubermensch the superman who was destined for greatness, and to rule over others who lacked his will power and drive.

The Jews were an objective enemy, totalitarian societies can only flourish if there is an outsider, an enemy who is the barrier of the false paradise a system like Nazism offers. I doubt he especially like Jews as he saw them as a corrupting influence and genetically inferior to the Aryan race. But antisemitism was common in Europe at this time and it’s just as likely that they were a convenient fall guy. Easy to sell the idea that the Jew is a parasite, when most non Jews already believed this.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I have to say you really are completely anchored to this “I think player is shit therefore only reason they are being played is because they wax Arteta’s car in the training ground” thing, especially to go full Hitler on it.

As I said to you some time ago, I resigned myself to the fact that till the day I die whoever is manager they will play a player who I can’t stand.


From as long as I can remember there have been such players for me….


Ljungberg, Cygan, Denilson, Ramsey all spring to mind.


Grimandi, Christopher Wreh…frankly Marc Overmars (one of the most overrated players to put on an Arsenal shirt) , Luhzny

[Mac76]

Your problem is you’re starting from the unalterable belief that “X player is objectively bad” and therefore the conclusion must be that this player must only play because they are a boot licker. Now first problem is there are two boot lickers in the squad, Rob Holding and Mo Elneny. They don’t suck up to Arteta individually but to everyone, but like the Alec Baldwin character says in Glengarry Glenross “Nice guy? I don’t give a shit”. Holding is likely to be sold, and Elneny will only play if there’s no other option….why because they are awful players.

Arteta is so convinced of his tactical genius, that I think you could get someone completely pulling apart his tactics and it wouldn’t dent him one bit. Wouldn’t even get cross like “who the fuck are you to question my genius?”. He’d just smile politely, hear the person out and do what he thinks is best. Almost Wenger like in that sense

Elneny isn't awful, he simply knows his limitations and plays a good game within them, I'd much rather ha e Elneny than ESR who is more yale ted but i creasingly lazy-looking and doesn't fulfil the expectation around him

[HCZ_Reborn]

Elneny isn't awful, he simply knows his limitations and plays a good game within them, I'd much rather ha e Elneny than ESR who is more yale ted but i creasingly lazy-looking and doesn't fulfil the expectation around him

No he is, in my view he along with Holding and Lokonga one of the worst players at the club. No ball skills, for a big guy he’s remarkably in physical, can’t deal with being pressed. And now he serves about as much purpose to the footballing aspect of Arsenal as Win the Labrador.

I was beside myself when we gave him a new contract. More annoyed than when we gave Xhaka a new contract.


So case in point. I’m as sure as I am about Elneny as you are about Zinchenko…I don’t actually mind Zinchenko just don’t want him playing left back. I don’t think the only explanation for Elneny being at the club is that he takes Arteta’s kids to the park when he can’t be bothered (the whole teachers pet thing) because a) it would jar with what I know about people who absolutely need validation from others b) there is at least one person I know of who rates Elneny you. I think you’re off your fucking nut, but it’s just a different opinion and doesn’t require an explanation to be shoe horned in

[mandela8]

Elneny isn't awful, he simply knows his limitations and plays a good game within them, I'd much rather ha e Elneny than ESR who is more yale ted but i creasingly lazy-looking and doesn't fulfil the expectation around him

Elneny's limitations are what make him fuckin shite. I've said before, all he does is take the ball and lay it off to the closest/easiest player. He's easily bypassed by the player who passes it to him just passing it to the next player, 90% of the time. Absolutely pointless player. Offers exactly zero.

I think you're being ridiculously harsh in ESR anaw. He's been injured for the best part of a year, ffs. When he was fit and playing regularly he was definitely an asset to the team. He should be afforded the opportunity to get back there, man.
Unless his struggles to get back there are actually on him and his attitude, but I doubt that's the case.

[Mac76]

I'm bored of seeing ESR lumber around the pitch seemingly oblivious to the fact he's supppsed to justify his being there ny actually doing something useful - injuries don't explain his complete lack of energy or enthusiasm