Injuries Thread :ilt:

[Niall_Quinn]

Don’t know if he misses the United or Chelsea games said at least a month and United game is a month tomorrow

With the exception of Tomiyasu who really needs to be got rid of in the summer, players have usually not been out longer than they have been predicted to be, some have even been back sooner.

I hate to say it but he’s hardly been that influential this season. He’s always been one of my favourite players because of his raw pace but frankly too often the effort to beat his man is just not there.

He may not be banging in the goals but he covers a hell of a lot of ground during a match. The ground Sterling won't cover.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He may not be banging in the goals but he covers a hell of a lot of ground during a match. The ground Sterling won't cover.

It’s not the lack of goals, it’s the overall lack of contribution. Running around a lot is one thing but whatever one says about Havertz he makes himself available. Martinelli my biggest frustration about him for a long time is how he has the chance to take on his man but chooses to cut inside into a crowded centre…why…is he worried about being kicked?

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s not the lack of goals, it’s the overall lack of contribution. Running around a lot is one thing but whatever one says about Havertz he makes himself available. Martinelli my biggest frustration about him for a long time is how he has the chance to take on his man but chooses to cut inside into a crowded centre…why…is he worried about being kicked?

MAybe somebody else is worried about him being kicked? And why wouldn't they? We really are, genuinely down to 4 front players now, for the title and PL run-in. It's extraordinary, stunning.

[Mac76]

MAybe somebody else is worried about him being kicked? And why wouldn't they? We really are, genuinely down to 4 front players now, for the title and PL run-in. It's extraordinary, stunning.

he did get kicked and now he's out

[Niall_Quinn]

Won't be the last either. Tough business a title run-in, especially with the CL piled on top. And we have to do it with less than zero margin to spare when it comes to injuries. Crazy.

[Marc Overmars]

I think Martinelli is just following instructions to be honest. Players like him need to be able to stretch their legs and retain a bit of unpredictability and chaos. You think Klopp ever instructed Mane to look inside for an extra pass?

Martinelli is a counter attacking player in a possession based team, the styles don’t match. Saying that, he has no excuse for his timid finishing, he used to be quite confident in front of goal but now rarely seems to shoot instinctively.

[Mac76]

Martinelli is a counter attacking player in a possession based team, the styles don’t match.

very much, a bit like Pepe

but yes he should be better in front of goal

[HCZ_Reborn]

Havertz is injured now :haha:

[Marc Overmars]

Another hamstring apparently but it is unconfirmed for now.

Embarrassing for the club really and if he is out for an extended period then we are truly fucked.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s the irony of a club that is risk averse actually unwittingly taking risk

You can’t really even call it unlucky because soft tissue injuries are the kind of things that can happen when you are playing someone more than you might otherwise

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Havertz is injured now :haha:
Well it's been obvious for a while that this is more than mere incompetence and that our manager and ( some senior staff) are clearly on the take...we just need to find out who is the pied piper leading them on.... my guess is one of the Nevilles backed by Elon money :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It’s the irony of a club that is risk averse actually unwittingly taking risk

You can’t really even call it unlucky because soft tissue injuries are the kind of things that can happen when you are playing someone more than you might otherwise

Seriously though, when I say we've had really poor leadership at the club since Dein left and that the current stewards are pretty useless, it's not because I've got any beef with anyone, but its crystal clear to even a 10 year old that most of their decisions hold us back instead of pushing us forward.

Just wait for the commentary in our next game, same ol' Arsenal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well it's been obvious for a while that this is more than mere incompetence and that our manager and ( some senior staff) are clearly on the take...we just need to find out who is the pied piper leading them on.... my guess is one of the Nevilles backed by Elon money :lol:

Moving on

[Niall_Quinn]

Not only is it injuries immediately after the stellar window slammed shut, but to the very players we absolutely couldn't afford to lose. And one of them got injured on holiday!

So, the worst case scenario.

There's a plan for that, right?

[IBK]

Nailed it.

Havertz exemplifies the mindset that has led to this inevitable latest instalment in this season's debacle. Wasn't Areteta talking just a couple of weeks ago about how Havertz is a physical freak who can take the pressure of being played non-stop?

Well this shows us what we all knew - that our manager's apparent disdain for fitness logic is destined to fail.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Havertz out for the rest of the season

[Letters]

Nailed it.

Havertz exemplifies the mindset that has led to this inevitable latest instalment in this season's debacle. Wasn't Areteta talking just a couple of weeks ago about how Havertz is a physical freak who can take the pressure of being played non-stop?

Well this shows us what we all knew - that our manager's apparent disdain for fitness logic is destined to fail.

He's played 33 games this season. He's 25.
Salah is 32 and he's played 34 games.
Where does this notion come from that players can only ever play here and there? I'm sure back in our glory days we had a pretty settled first XI, you don't chop and change all the time.

[IBK]

The Athletic's David Ornstein has confirmed Kai Havertz will miss the rest of the season.

That's it then.

[IBK]

He's played 33 games this season. He's 25.
Salah is 32 and he's played 34 games.
Where does this notion come from that players can only ever play here and there? I'm sure back in our glory days we had a pretty settled first XI, you don't chop and change all the time.

Not sure it's just number of games though. Havertz is (was) asked to get through more work than Salah does each game, and game state has also been important - eg those games where we played with 10 men...

[Mac76]

Dubai training camp :bow:

Arteta and the club's folly is now completely exposed

We all know what wil happen next, they rush back Saka and then he gets injured again/exacerbates his current problem

[Mac76]

Not sure it's just number of games though. Havertz is (was) asked to get through more work than Salah does each game, and game state has also been important - eg those games where we played with 10 men...

Yes, Arteta's obsession with everyone having to defend as well as attack means it's much more workload on Havertz plus as IBK says the ten-men situations

We should have stumped up the £60m for Watkins

[Letters]

Not sure it's just number of games though. Havertz is (was) asked to get through more work than Salah does each game, and game state has also been important - eg those games where we played with 10 men...

Not much we can do about the 10 men thing. Although more work is fair, he's one of the players in the PL who covers the most distance.
It would be interesting to see how that compares with people like Henry back in the day who used to play pretty much every game and relied on pace a lot.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The other two aspects are a) although Salah will have played the same amount of games, I doubt he’s played the same amount of minutes. b) Havertz did not get the summer off and Salah did

It would be interesting to compare the amount of running both have done over the season. But what can’t be ignored is that soft tissue injuries are more likely when someone is fatigued

[Marc Overmars]

What a complete mess.

[dazthegooner]

Looks like Herertz could be out for the season

[Marc Overmars]

I’ve got a degree of sympathy for Arteta because the odds of your entire forward line being injured at the same time is ridiculous. However the club absolutely dropped the ball by not signing anyone in January.

Everyone could see it was a gamble that was likely to backfire given how things have panned out this season.

As far as I’m concerned the season has ended today because we’re not getting anywhere the title with Trossard, Sterling and Nwaneri as our only fit forwards. Havertz for all his finishing woes can play the role of a traditional striker, I have no clue how we can expect to score goals without him occupying opponents in the way he does. It’s basically going to be a 4-6-0 formation now.

[HCZ_Reborn]

To misquote Oscar Wilde “to lose one player to hamstring injury is unfortunate, to lose three is carelessness”

With Saka, how many Amber warnings did Arteta chose to ignore. We played 21 games in 74 games how many of those did Havertz and Martinelli get any significant rest time because we’ve allowed our squad to be thinned out

If losing out on the title to Liverpool is not a sacking offence (and to my mind it absolutely is) than this wilfull negligence definitely is. Top 4 will be a struggle even without further injuries and further injuries are guaranteed.

If we don’t finish top four, I believe he will be gone. And justice will be done

[Letters]

The other two aspects are a) although Salah will have played the same amount of games, I doubt he’s played the same amount of minutes.
Well, when you're right you're right. It's 2,860 minutes for Salah, 2,776 for Havertz. So you're right, that isn't the same!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mohamed-salah/leistungsdaten/spieler/148455/saison/2024/plus/1#gesamt
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kai-havertz/leistungsdaten/spieler/309400/saison/2024/plus/1#gesamt

##

[Letters]

Looks like Herertz could be out for the season

:lol:

Alright, Internet Explorer!

[Niall_Quinn]

Dubai training camp :bow:

Arteta and the club's folly is now completely exposed

We all know what wil happen next, they rush back Saka and then he gets injured again/exacerbates his current problem

This is actually going to happen. It's all so predictable.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also Tommy might need a second knee operation, so that's a squad spot that will be carried for nobody knows how long, no chance of selling him, and no guarantee he'll ever come back. We've had a few of those before, like Diaby. Club has rapidly transformed from title contenders to a luxury hospital.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, when you're right you're right. It's 2,860 minutes for Salah, 2,776 for Havertz. So you're right, that isn't the same!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mohamed-salah/leistungsdaten/spieler/148455/saison/2024/plus/1#gesamt
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kai-havertz/leistungsdaten/spieler/309400/saison/2024/plus/1#gesamt

##

Huh well that’s hardly much difference at all, the length of a feature length Disney animation apart

Did we look at respective distances run, though even there I know Salah covers a fuck load of ground. So it’s either the summer off has made a difference or Salah is one of those super freaks like Ronaldo. I don’t remember him spending any significant time on the treatment table

Let’s ask our resident Liverpool fan. I could look it up myself but todays my day off and I tend to visit this place more when I’m either working or on the train (says me who is sitting on the train at the moment)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Also Tommy might need a second knee operation, so that's a squad spot that will be carried for nobody knows how long, no chance of selling him, and no guarantee he'll ever come back. We've had a few of those before, like Diaby. Club has rapidly transformed from title contenders to a luxury hospital.

Weren’t BUPA one of our sponsors once or did I imagine this ?

[Mac76]

Well, when you're right you're right. It's 2,860 minutes for Salah, 2,776 for Havertz. So you're right, that isn't the same!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mohamed-salah/leistungsdaten/spieler/148455/saison/2024/plus/1#gesamt
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kai-havertz/leistungsdaten/spieler/309400/saison/2024/plus/1#gesamt

##

but what's Salah doing in those minutes, is he expected to run up and down the pitch, one minute trying to head a cross into the opposition goal and the next heading the ball off his own goal line?

No he isn't and that's the difference

[Letters]

but what's Salah doing in those minutes, is he expected to run up and down the pitch, one minute trying to head a cross into the opposition goal and the next heading the ball off his own goal line?

No he isn't and that's the difference

HCZ is the one who brought minutes played in to it :shrug:
I already said that Havertz works harder.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I wouldn’t put that much trust in Chat GPT but it claims that the amount of ground both cover in the champions league is in and around the same. But Salah actually covers more than Havertz in the premier league. This is probably because Salah will receive the ball deep and run long distances with it. Apparently Salah has increased his average distance covered in games this season.

But Then you also have to factor in how much jumping both do, how many tackles they are going for etc

We are of course far from the only club beset with these kind of injuries.

So just looking at Salah’s injury total. In 7 and a half years at Liverpool. They’ve lost him for a combined total of less than 4 months (and this includes time off with Covid)

[HCZ_Reborn]

HCZ is the one who brought minutes played in to it :shrug:
I already said that Havertz works harder.

I suggested it might be a possible factor (apparently not)

But I think it’s clear Havertz has been overused this season, whether we want to relate it to how many minutes he’s played or how he’s utilised on the pitch…the point stands

Whether or not Salah is a player more immune to soft tissue injuries than someone like Havertz is specculative. But the fact remains that the warning lights have been there with Havertz for some time just like they were with Saka

[Niall_Quinn]

Weren’t BUPA one of our sponsors once or did I imagine this ?

Don't remember that. But we probably should have acquired them at some point given our burgeoning requirements and new transfer policies that offer significant potential for growth.

[Letters]

I’ve got a degree of sympathy for Arteta because the odds of your entire forward line being injured at the same time is ridiculous. However the club absolutely dropped the ball by not signing anyone in January.
This is pretty much where I'm at.
And Arteta expressed some disappointment about that too.
This isn't all on Arteta - not saying he's completely blameless either but I think he's getting far more of the blame than is fair.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is pretty much where I'm at.
And Arteta expressed some disappointment about that too.
This isn't all on Arteta - not saying he's completely blameless either but I think he's getting far more of the blame than is fair.

Arteta has earned himself the reputation for someone who a) overplays certain players and b) someone who in interviews has in the past at least been dismissive of medical expertise, when Rice came off with injury in his first NLD…Arteta pretty much stated he needed to toughen up.

We know there are instances of players playing through pain. Saka, White and Jesus have all claimed as much.

Is Arteta completely to blame and no other factor comes into it? No. But I think he takes the lions share of responsibility.

Problem is he never will.

He needs to go

[Niall_Quinn]

Arteta has earned himself the reputation for someone who a) overplays certain players and b) someone who in interviews has in the past at least been dismissive of medical expertise, when Rice came off with injury in his first NLD…Arteta pretty much stated he needed to toughen up.

We know there are instances of players playing through pain. Saka, White and Jesus have all claimed as much.

Is Arteta completely to blame and no other factor comes into it? No. But I think he takes the lions share of responsibility.

Problem is he never will.

He needs to go

The manager needs to be left to manage his squad as he sees fit (or unfit in our case), in conjunction with the medical staff of course. If he's ignoring that staff or making tangible mistakes with how he utilises and rotates his squad then that's a legitimate issue. But do we have any evidence of that, apart form one comment regarding Rice?

In terms of the squad size and the transfer policy, Arteta can't possibly carry the lion's share of blame for that, unless the stories about him wanting Watkins are false. If he's identified the need for a striker, undoubtedly based on squad shortages, and asked the club to buy that striker - it then falls on the club to get that done. They haven't done it, they are almost entirely to blame.

Wasn't a luxury purchase, it was a necessary purchase.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The manager needs to be left to manage his squad as he sees fit (or unfit in our case), in conjunction with the medical staff of course. If he's ignoring that staff or making tangible mistakes with how he utilises and rotates his squad then that's a legitimate issue. But do we have any evidence of that, apart form one comment regarding Rice?

In terms of the squad size and the transfer policy, Arteta can't possibly carry the lion's share of blame for that, unless the stories about him wanting Watkins are false. If he's identified the need for a striker, undoubtedly based on squad shortages, and asked the club to buy that striker - it then falls on the club to get that done. They haven't done it, they are almost entirely to blame.

Wasn't a luxury purchase, it was a necessary purchase.

Watkins was offered to Arsenal, Villa wanted to sell us Watkins because they didn’t want to have to sell Duran

I haven’t seen anything where Arteta has stated he explicitly wanted Watkins, what I’ve heard is that the club was divided on whether we should go for him or not. Arteta has previously put the emphasis on signing players for the future in discussions with KSE (that’s why we targeted the Norwegian boy)

[Niall_Quinn]

Watkins was offered to Arsenal, Villa wanted to sell us Watkins because they didn’t want to have to sell Duran

I haven’t seen anything where Arteta has stated he explicitly wanted Watkins, what I’ve heard is that the club was divided on whether we should go for him or not. Arteta has previously put the emphasis on signing players for the future in discussions with KSE (that’s why we targeted the Norwegian boy)

The club wouldn't have entertained the move if Arteta didn't want him. Arteta must have wanted him or else the bid wouldn't have been made. Unless Josh and the gang are now picking the team?

[HCZ_Reborn]

The club wouldn't have entertained the move if Arteta didn't want him. Arteta must have wanted him or else the bid wouldn't have been made. Unless Josh and the gang are now picking the team?

We didn’t make a move, we responded to them. They offered us Watkins for 60 million, we made a counter offer of 45 million. This suggests to me that the desire to bring Watkins in was lukewarm at best. Given the vast amounts that have been spent under Arteta, are we really to believe that KSE would have stiffed him over 15 million….if Arteta really wanted this player.

[Niall_Quinn]

We didn’t make a move, we responded to them. They offered us Watkins for 60 million, we made a counter offer of 45 million. This suggests to me that the desire to bring Watkins is was lukewarm at best. Given the vast amounts that have been spent under Arteta, are we really to believe that KSE would have stiffed him over 15 million….if Arteta really wanted this player.

What are you basing this on? I'm going on the reports made by people actually connected with football, the ones most people give at least some credence to. Doesn't mean they are right but there's zero evidence Villa offered the player for 60 mill and the board went back with a 45 mill bid minus input from Arteta. According to the reports the bid was made 9 (IIRC) days after Villa suggested the player was available. And during that time Arteta made a firm request to the club, which the club then hummed and hawed about because they didn't like the player's age or his potential sell-on fee. But eventually they agreed and THEN the bid was made. Some say £32 mill in staged payments, others say £40 mill and others still say £45 mill. The £60mill "offer", which I don't think anyone has confirmed is real, so if it did happen at all, came after Villa had agreed to sell their other striker to the arabs.

Yes, I do believe KSE (most likely on the advice of their squad of bean counters at the club) were responsible for the underbid because only they could have ultimately approved it. That would be the same £15 mill drop in the Gyokeres buyout clause in the summer. Or the same £15 mill that could have been spent, with change, getting a couple of loan deals done as cover.

And it might represent the £15mill the bag men thought would be lost of the sell-on fee, but that's speculation.

HAS to be KSE, they own the club, they control the funds. They may have delegated people to do their shitty deeds but they are ultimately responsible.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is what Ornstein reported, Villa offered Watkins to us for 60 million, we only offered 45 million

Ultimately the club concerns itself far more with wages than transfer fees (which are usually done via amortisation) when it comes to running costs. Now if you want to blame KSE that might be worth looking at in terms of the decision to sell the quartet of Smith-Rowe and Nketiah, as well as sending Vieira and Nelson on loan.

[Letters]

This is what Ornstein reported, Villa offered Watkins to us for 60 million, we only offered 45 million

And you're blaming Arteta for that?
He expressed some frustration about out transfer dealings in January, or lack thereof.
I know he seems to be the Homer Simpson to your Frank Grimes, but not everything is his fault.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And you're blaming Arteta for that?
He expressed some frustration about out transfer dealings in January, or lack thereof.
I know he seems to be the Homer Simpson to your Frank Grimes, but not everything is his fault.

I didn’t want us to sign Watkins either. The point I’m making is that if Arteta wanted him that much, we’d have paid the difference.

I hold Arteta responsible for the soft tissue injuries to the players we do have. The transfer debacle…is a collective endeavour

[Niall_Quinn]

This is what Ornstein reported, Villa offered Watkins to us for 60 million, we only offered 45 million

Ultimately the club concerns itself far more with wages than transfer fees (which are usually done via amortisation) when it comes to running costs. Now if you want to blame KSE that might be worth looking at in terms of the decision to sell the quartet of Smith-Rowe and Nketiah, as well as sending Vieira and Nelson on loan.

Why not just look at it another way? We got 30 mill for Eddie but wouldn't pay 60 mill for Watkins.

Don't know how much we got for ESR, but we could sure do with him here right now. Add his money on top. Yes, I know we can't just assume money coming in is available to spend. But this is like a leak in the roof, you have to fix the damn thing. You don't want to spend that rainy day fund, but now you have to unless you want the roof to fall in.

Not sure why you are so keen to defend these bastards who don't give a shit about the club beyond how it serves their personal ambitions.

[Niall_Quinn]

I didn’t want us to sign Watkins either. The point I’m making is that if Arteta wanted him that much, we’d have paid the difference.

I hold Arteta responsible for the soft tissue injuries to the players we do have. The transfer debacle…is a collective endeavour

This is as thin as it gets. Arteta's job is to tell the board what he needs. Their job is to get it, if possible. Villa nudged us and said, want Ollie for 60 mill?

Well - did we or didn't we? Who's best to know? The manager, and he said we wanted the player. That's his bit done.

The board? Hmmm, sell-on fees, age, don't like his hairstyle. 40 mill, 45 mill. Plus a quid. 9 days later, when it was already a dead deal due to Villa agreeing other business.

The board has to ensure things are handled properly, for sure. They can't fulfil every manager's wildest dreams. But the roof is held up by the last straw. If it hadn't been, if we didn't have the injury crisis, then sure, maybe we don't need a punt on a 29 year old we won't get much money for in 2-3 years. But as a solid oak beam to replace the final straw, what's there to even consider? It's NECESSARY, not optional.

As we all knew in advance and as we have (in record time) just witnessed. Down comes the roof. Who knew that could happen?

Or who CARED if that happened? Not the board.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Why not just look at it another way? We got 30 mill for Eddie but wouldn't pay 60 mill for Watkins.

Don't know how much we got for ESR, but we could sure do with him here right now. Add his money on top. Yes, I know we can't just assume money coming in is available to spend. But this is like a leak in the roof, you have to fix the damn thing. You don't want to spend that rainy day fund, but now you have to unless you want the roof to fall in.

Not sure why you are so keen to defend these bastards who don't give a shit about the club beyond how it serves their personal ambitions.

No im not defending them, you’re defending Arteta. It’s not an either or. There’s plenty of blame to go around for transfers. With the injuries, I think Arteta takes the lion’s share

[dazthegooner]

:lol:

Alright, Internet Explorer!

DuckDuckGo :ninja: well Skysports to be precise :)

[Mac76]

Arteta's job is to tell the board what he needs.

And Arteta clearly failed to tell the board we absolutely HAD to sign an attacking player over the summer or failing that in January

Instead we squished the money on Calafiori who's already looking injury-prone and Merino who feels like a luxury atm

He also had the option of bringing Vieira back from loan in January plus looking for some additional bodies to make up the numbers

He's also responsible for so de-prioritising signing an attacking player in the summer we ended up with Sterling who (along with Neto and what a dumb signing that was) is blocking us from signing another PL player on loan

[Niall_Quinn]

And Arteta clearly failed to tell the board we absolutely HAD to sign an attacking player over the summer or failing that in January

Instead we squished the money on Calafiori who's already looking injury-prone and Merino who feels like a luxury atm

He also had the option of bringing Vieira back from loan in January plus looking for some additional bodies to make up the numbers

He's also responsible for so de-prioritising signing an attacking player in the summer we ended up with Sterling who (along with Neto and what a dumb signing that was) is blocking us from signing another PL player on loan

Don't disagree with that, but I'm talking about the January window when everyone had made their mistakes in the summer. And I'm talking about the emergency situation the club now finds itself in. Arteta wanted a striker in January, for the most obvious of reasons. We didn't get one because we put in a low-ball bid and got beaten to the punch. Which takes us back to everyone FINALLY agreeing a striker was urgently needed, but the board refusing to sufficiently fund it. Plenty of blame to go around but it's clear enough where the lion's share of it belongs in January and during this emergency.

[Mac76]

Don't disagree with that, but I'm talking about the January window when everyone had made their mistakes in the summer. And I'm talking about the emergency situation the club now finds itself in. Arteta wanted a striker in January, for the most obvious of reasons. We didn't get one because we put in a low-ball bid and got beaten to the punch. Which takes us back to everyone FINALLY agreeing a striker was urgently needed, but the board refusing to sufficiently fund it. Plenty of blame to go around but it's clear enough where the lion's share of it belongs in January and during this emergency.

But we'd have been much better prepared to sign someone if Arteta hadn't been delusional about not needing anyone, look how quickly two years ago we got alll of Leo, Kiwior and Jorg once the Mudryk deal was off, clearly a lot of prep there that was entirely absent this time it seems

[Niall_Quinn]

But we'd have been much better prepared to sign someone if Arteta hadn't been delusional about not needing anyone, look how quickly two years ago we got alll of Leo, Kiwior and Jorg once the Mudryk deal was off, clearly a lot of prep there that was entirely absent this time it seems

I get it. But we were all giving the manager time during that period, so what's the point of going back over it? I realise one links to the other, but new manager, developing squad, the fans put up with a lot in the hope something will come at the end of it.

Now we are at the end of it and we don't have enough players to challenge for the competitions we are still in. There's the answer. The plan was flawed and we ended up here. Now we can give some grief out about it, now's the time.

I really wouldn't focus on anything other than the body count and the response to it, this January, when the squad was on the verge of critical in terms of numbers. Focus on anything else and you end up in the weeds arguing about the minuscule details in Draxler's contract, which is still coming I assume?

Every answer you need is in the Jan transfer window. We made many mistakes before the Jan transfer window, but could have fixed them (determined pursuit of Gyokeres) or mitigated them (sofa change for Watkins). We didn't. That's the primary charge.

[Chippy]

The Athletic's David Ornstein has confirmed Kai Havertz will miss the rest of the season.

That's it then.

That really is it!

How can this happen every season??

We call Spuds bottlers... we are as bad. :rose::rose:

[Mac76]

That really is it!

How can this happen every season??

We call Spuds bottlers... we are as bad. :rose::rose:

How is someone getting injured bottling it...? :shrug:

[Chippy]

How is someone getting injured bottling it...? :shrug:

Not buying a striker in January when we clearly needed one is bottling it. Simple.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8xqkwl8e5do

So what seems clear to me is that this injury was inevitable. If it didn’t happen in Dubai it would have happened against Leicester on Saturday. And what’s more, I suspect the medical team knew that Havertz was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.

[Marc Overmars]

The fact surgery is required says it all.

[Letters]

Not buying a striker in January when we clearly needed one is bottling it. Simple.

I'd say it's negligence rather than bottling it - although I'd point to last summer's activity more than January's. Always hard to do significant business in January.

[Mac76]

I'd say it's negligence rather than bottling it

yes, exactly

[Marc Overmars]

Not that it affects us currently but Nelson has had hamstring surgery now. :lol:

[Mac76]

and somewhat perversely ESR is fit and scoring goals...

[Letters]

and somewhat perversely ESR is fit and scoring goals...

5 goals in 23 games. Not exactly the goal machine we need.

[HCZ_Reborn]

5 goals in 23 games. Not exactly the goal machine we need.

Squad option innit, could have done with him when Odegaard was out especially

Same with Nketiah, having him meant that we wouldn’t have needed to play Havertz in so many games

Of course we are without a top goalscorer which is unhelpful but given we haven’t a single player who has got into double figures this season, it’s reasonably impressive that we are third top scorers in the league (after city on 53, and Liverpool on 60)

But I think what’s really been costly this season is lack of squad depth

[HCZ_Reborn]

Liverpool looked leggy and tired yesterday. Be interesting to see how they cope with that against Villa (who couldn’t beat 10-man Ipswich but I feel like with us they struggle a bit against teams that stick 11 behind the ball) and Man City.

They could win both games of course, although Villa only lost to us at home this season so far. City? Well depends how they play. Play like they did against us and Real Madrid, wouldn’t hold out much hope for them

[Mac76]

5 goals in 23 games. Not exactly the goal machine we need.

I'm not saying we should have kept him, I was simply saying he's thrived away from Arsenal and being somewhere where's he's fully valued

[dazthegooner]

Gary Neville diverting the shit show that is his beloved Manure starting he has no sympathy for Arsenal’s injury crisis. Who the fuck asked you anyway?

[Letters]

But I think what’s really been costly this season is lack of squad depth
Everyone thinks that.
It's annoying though because despite that, with City dropping off a cliff the only real competitor this year is Liverpool. Had Salah not been in beast mode all season they wouldn't be above us. We have been a bit unlucky, you can blame Arteta up to a point if you like, I'm not sure what I think about that, but there has to be an element of bad luck in all our strikers being out long term at the same time.

[Marc Overmars]

Had no issue with the likes of Vieira, Eddie and ESR going, the issue was not signing anyone to fill those gaps. Sterling was just a random punt because the opportunity to get a body in was there. It was poor planning. We started the season short and simply gambled that we’d have the same luck as last season.

It’s backfired horribly. Saying that, we’ve been behind Liverpool all season and never chipped away at the gap even with our first choice forwards available. So as far as I’m concerned this season has been a huge waste and the only positives I’ve taken out of it so far is that Nwaneri and MLS have established themselves when they may not have had the opportunity to do so if it weren’t for the injuries.

[HCZ_Reborn]

In fairness I’m saying what I’m saying about those players with the benefit of hindsight. I liked ESR but I thought made sense to sell him at the time, wanted Nketiah gone. Don’t think Vieira is good enough, certainly don’t think Nelson is good enough.
I just think looking back, it would have been helpful to have those players available to us in certain champions league games, certain league cup games etc so that we didn’t have to be playing the likes of Havertz twice a week.

[Niall_Quinn]

Tommy has had a second op, so gone for rest of season and recovery period will run into next season.

[Mac76]

Tommy has had a second op, so gone for rest of season and recovery period will run into next season.

I'm guessing by now we're resigned to the fact no-one will buy him, so we may as well keep him and see if he can at least be a useful squad player for haldf a season or a season, if and when he recovers

It's a real shame, he's a very good and useful player

[Niall_Quinn]

Nwaneri fit for Forest. He limped off with cramp, not an injury.

[Mac76]

Nwaneri fit for Forest. He limped off with cramp, not an injury.

don't worry he'll get injured soon enough, I'm sure :good:

[IBK]

Nwaneri fit for Forest. He limped off with cramp, not an injury.

That's good news. We can't serve up another performance as bad as West Ham (and most of the game against Leicester), can we :pray:

[Mac76]

That's good news. We can't serve up another performance as bad as West Ham (and most of the game against Leicester), can we :pray:

you had to say it didn't you? :rolleyes: :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

It’s confirmed that Gabriel will miss the remainder of the season with a hamstring tear and requires surgery.

What a fucking joke.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s confirmed that Gabriel will miss the remainder of the season with a hamstring tear.

What a fucking joke.

Got there before me

Ultimately this was an accident waiting to happen. Overuse is one of the biggest risk factors in hamstring injuries. Timber, White and Calafiori are all centre backs who could have been deployed in order to allow some respite.

We can’t really claim bad luck with injuries, Odegaard got felled on international duties but largely our players have pulled up either in training or on the pitch with no one near them.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It's just been a season to forget.

Players have been badly mis-managed and it's become a total cluster fuck.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's just been a season to forget.

Players have been badly mis-managed and it's become a total cluster fuck.

Whilst that’s not an unfair statement (and it couldn’t be otherwise I would be contradicting what I’ve said above). I guess the only thing that can be said, is that given the way Spurs and Man City have coped with injuries….we haven’t really done all that badly by contrast.

Still being 2nd without having a striker, who knows what will happen when you’re breaking up the best centre back partnership in for me probably about a decade. The important thing is to not give Kiwior too much game time (I don’t think he’s a terrible defender but he often looks like what he is, a defender without enough game time) and to make sure that Partey doesn’t play at right back.

I think this has probably nixxed us against Real Madrid though

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Got there before me

Ultimately this was an accident waiting to happen. Overuse is one of the biggest risk factors in hamstring injuries. Timber, White and Calafiori are all centre backs who could have been deployed in order to allow some respite.

We can’t really claim bad luck with injuries, Odegaard got felled on international duties but largely our players have pulled up either in training or on the pitch with no one near them.

White got injured in training again, that's why he wasn't available for the Fulham match, that makes him like the 5th player this season to get injured in our notorious over the top training sessions.

I mean who the fuck thinks its a bright idea to have intensive training sessions immediately after a loaded international break at this time of the season, when all our players muscles are already super tuned.

I know White hasn't much game time compared to others but it could have easily been Gabriel that got injured in our training session or someone else who has played a gazillion games.

This manager is still acting like a rookie, he just doesn't think and that's why we'll continue to have this terrible record with hamstrings and other stupid injuries under him. If Wilshere or Carzola had played under Arteta, they'd probably had clocked 10 career starts in total!

I am tired of this never ending learning curve, no coach is worth all this aggro.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I am pretty upset with this news.

The CL is the only thing we had left, the one competition where Arteta's soul-sapping brand of Pepball could actually come out tops. Liverpool is out. Realistically there is only Madrid and Barca to fear. We could have won this without a striker if we are able to keep clean sheets.

But now we lose our most consistent and IMO best player of the season. Now I have to hope an average and demoralised Kiwior ups his game. I've got to pray that Saliba stops his brain farts.Also with Saka being back, I had hoped we'd see proper setpieces again, something that Europeans can't handle, but what's the use when there is no Gabriel to get at the end of them.

Every time some good news comes, something stupid, that it feels like we could have avoided must occur.

I really do hate this season, and I blame 80% of all calamites on this manager and his unearned hubris.

[HCZ_Reborn]

White got injured in training again, that's why he wasn't available for the Fulham match, that makes him like the 5th player this season to get injured in our notorious over the top training sessions.

I mean who the fuck thinks its a bright idea to have intensive training sessions immediately after a loaded international break at this time of the season, when all our players muscles are already super tuned.

I know White hasn't much game time compared to others but it could have easily been Gabriel that got injured in our training session or someone else who has played a gazillion games.

This manager is still acting like a rookie, he just doesn't think and that's why we'll continue to have this terrible record with hamstrings and other stupid injuries under him. If Wilshere or Carzola had played under Arteta, they'd probably had clocked 10 career starts in total!

I am tired of this never ending learning curve, no coach is worth all this aggro.

The Rookie tag doesn’t really work, it’s not inexperience it’s arrogance. Plus it’s exactly the same reason Postecoglou lost loads of players to injury this season….so whilst it’s annoying, it’s not something peculiar to Arteta.