Champions League QF/SF Draw, 11am GMT

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Arsenal
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Bayern Munich
Borussia Dortmund
Manchester City
Paris Saint-Germain
Real Madrid

Hope we get a big draw tbh but not Man City because fuck facing English teams in Europe.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Programme has started now.

[Mac76]

why is Claudio Raneiri hosting it?

[HCZ_Reborn]

why is Claudio Raneiri hosting it?

Exactly. Should have been John Lydon

[HCZ_Reborn]

Huh. John Obi Mikel played in that final for Chelsea. Funny the things you don’t remember

[Mac76]

we're out first!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Arsenal v Bayern Munich!

[Mac76]

Arsenal v Bayern :ilt:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bayern Munich. Tough luck Mac

[Marc Overmars]

Bayern Munich.

Oh fuck off.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Atletico Madrid v Borussia Dortmund!

[Marc Overmars]

Atletico Madrid v Borussia Dortmund!

Plum draw for anyone getting the winner of this tie in the semis.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Real Madrid v Manchester City!!

:haha:

[Mac76]

Real v Man City - good draw if somehow we get past Bayern, one big team out

[McNamara That Ghost...]

PSG v Barcelona

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Semi final time now.

[Mac76]

Plum draw for anyone getting the winner of this tie in the semis.

Not us unfortunately

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Atletico Madrid/Borussia Dortmund v PSG/Barcelona

[Mac76]

so if we get through it's Real or Man Citeh :(

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Arsenal/Bayern Munich v Real Madrid/Man City

[Marc Overmars]

Bayern, followed by City or Real Madrid.

Doesn’t really get much harder than that. :rose:

[Mac76]

And if we pub it to the final we're the away team

[McNamara That Ghost...]

so if we get through it's Real or Man Citeh :(

Dortmund in the final. :bow:

[Mac76]

Bayern, followed by City or Real Madrid.

Doesn’t really get much harder than that. :rose:

take K*** out of the equation and I'd quite fancy beating Bayern, but he's got a curse over us, it's going to be another horrible game

[Mac76]

Dortmund in the final. :bow:

:lol:

[Mac76]

If we beat Bayern I'd rather Real than Citeh, a chance for Martin Odegaard to show them what they let go

[HCZ_Reborn]

And if we pub it to the final we're the away team

So it means we have to play in that awful, eye burner of an away kit

[HCZ_Reborn]

If we beat Bayern I'd rather Real than Citeh, a chance for Martin Odegaard to show them what they let go

Id just sooner play Real than City anyway. Even though I think Bellingham is top quality.

[Marc Overmars]

I think we definitely need to win the first leg to have any chance.

[Mac76]

So it means we have to play in that awful, eye burner of an away kit

Not necessarily, it depends on what what the 'home' team kit colours are, no...? :rolleyes:

[Mac76]

I think we definitely need to win the first leg to have any chance.

about 3-0 I'd say

[Letters]

Arsenal v Bayern Munich!

:lol:

:ilt:

They're very beatable this season but...Kane.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

So it means we have to play in that awful, eye burner of an away kit

Not with Dortmund in the final.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

:lol:

:ilt:

They're very beatable this season but...Kane.

Also, counterpoint

Dier.

[Marc Overmars]

Imagine playing Zinchenko against Sane and Musiala.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not with Dortmund in the final.

Let’s sensibly rule that one out

It’s academic anyway as we aren’t making it to the final either way


If I was betting man I’d say Man City vs PSG

[Mac76]

Imagine playing Zinchenko against Sane and Musiala.

Well he may have an 'accident' before then... :threaten:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well he may have an 'accident' before then... :threaten:

Are you volunteering to do this, get sent down for it and become the prison bike?

[Mac76]

I've just seen on twitter that Bayern are banned from taking fans away from home in the CL - :lol:

that's no bad thing - a stadium literally FULL of Gooners :scarf:

[Mac76]

Are you volunteering to do this, get sent down for it and become the prison bike?

you just can't stop yourself can you? ;)

[Marc Overmars]

I can already hear that ridiculous circus music playing when they hammer us in the second leg.

[HCZ_Reborn]

you just can't stop yourself can you? ;)

Is that what you’ll be saying to them in jail?

[HCZ_Reborn]

I've just seen on twitter that Bayern are banned from taking fans away from home in the CL - :lol:

that's no bad thing - a stadium literally FULL of Gooners :scarf:

Are they finally penalising fans for bringing incendiary objects into football grounds. Or is it just fireworks and flares are still fine?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm really excited tbh.

Ideally would avoid Man City if we did get through a la my opening post.

We're taking Bayern Munich on in a far better position than any of the other times we faced them.

[Mac76]

I'm really excited tbh.

Ideally would avoid Man City if we did get through a la my opening post.

We're taking Bayern Munich on in a far better position than any of the other times we faced them.

If we get past K*** and his dodgy pels you just know it will be Citeh next up

This is turning out to be a really bittersweet campaign against really shitty teams

[HCZ_Reborn]

I can already hear that ridiculous circus music playing when they hammer us in the second leg.

Not exactly been that impressive in this competition home or away. Like us they are unbeaten at home but they let in three goals at home to United…and relied on Onana doing a Taibi to win

They could beat us, but I think whilst the PTSD from the 10-2 agg drubbing is fresh in the memory. It probably gives a false indicator of how things will go this time. Kane is a danger for sure, but we kept him quiet last season with Gabby and Saliba playing

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39152642

The last time we faced them.

Jesus wept that back five (including Ospina). :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39152642

The last time we faced them.

Jesus wept that back five (including Ospina). :haha:


Ospina and Mustafi were unfortunate. But Bellerin, Koscielny and Monreal were ok


Real problem was the midfield. Ox, Ramsey and Xhaka??? Fucking hell :haha:

[Mac76]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39152642

The last time we faced them.

Jesus wept that back five (including Ospina). :haha:

with the obvious exception of Mustafi it's not that bad a back four, Bellerin and Monreal were good fullbacks and Kos was a skillful and committed CB (though admittedly he obvs overstepped the mark in this tie although I don't remember the incident very well)

In particular I'd take Monreal at his best above any LB we currently have including Tierney

[Marc Overmars]

Meanwhile West Ham have drawn Leverkusen in the EL. :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ospina and Mustafi were unfortunate. But Bellerin, Koscielny and Monreal were ok


Real problem was the midfield. Ox, Ramsey and Xhaka??? Fucking hell :haha:

I did think about that midfield as being terrible. Especially that era Xhaka.

Kos had his great moments but not in this one.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

with the obvious exception of Mustafi it's not that bad a back four, Bellerin and Monreal were good fullbacks and Kos was a skillful and committed CB (though admittedly he obvs overstepped the mark in this tie although I don't remember the incident very well)

In particular I'd take Monreal at his best above any LB we currently have including Tierney

Ok it's better than the one we had in the Camp Nou in 2010 last time we were in the QF's.

Silvestre marshalling the troops. :bow:

Almunia, Sagna, Vermaelen, Silvestre, Clichy. :lol:

Full backs good but the other three. In the trenches.

Although I suppose Messi would've destroyed any configuration we could have put out that night.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I did think about that midfield as being terrible. Especially that era Xhaka.

Kos had his great moments but not in this one.

Not that evening he didn’t, got himself sent off.


Him and Mertesacker formed a decent partnership. Can’t remember if there was any reason Cech wasn’t playing that evening

I remember not bothering to watch given we were already 5-1 behind on agg. Just stuck on the Godfather for the umpteenth time


“Look at how they massacred my boy!” Appropriate somehow

[Marc Overmars]

Not that evening he didn’t, got himself sent off.


Him and Mertesacker formed a decent partnership. Can’t remember if there was any reason Cech wasn’t playing that evening

I remember not bothering to watch given we were already 5-1 behind on agg. Just stuck on the Godfather for the umpteenth time


“Look at how they massacred my boy!” Appropriate somehow

Old Man Wenger used the CL to give Ospina game time IIRC.

To be honest looking back at old line ups and remembering how shit they were, just makes me appreciate the job Wenger did to keep us going until everyone caught up and overtook us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Old Man Wenger used the CL to give Ospina game time IIRC.

To be honest looking back at old line ups and remembering how shit they were, just makes me appreciate the job Wenger did to keep us going until everyone caught up and overtook us.

Oh for sure and I think on top of that the club allowed him to be a lightning rod

I think he stayed too long for sure, but equally even though he did himself no favours the abuse he was getting from fans actually feels rather shameful in retrospect. I think ultimately he left the club in a better position than Ferguson did at United.

Dont get me wrong I was just as guilty of it as anyone else.

I watched the Wenger documentary on Amazon a couple of years ago and felt actually genuinely sad that he felt the need to stay away from games for as long as he did.

The guy always was and remains a genuinely class act

[Mac76]

Can’t remember if there was any reason Cech wasn’t playing that evening


Probably because he was so matey with Bayern: https://metro.co.uk/2017/03/08/arsenal-star-petr-cech-caught-joking-around-with-bayern-munichs-manuel-neuer-after-10-2-thumping-6495731/

[Chippy]

With the risk of depressing all of you but just putting the competition in perspective.
The missus and I are in Brussels for a few days and had a quick look around the new (ISH) Heysel stadium (mainly that way to visit the Atonium structure next to it). There is a plaque on the wall remembering the 37 Juve fans that were killed due to the fucktard Scousers kicking off before the game. I remember watching that unfold live on TV. Fucking terrible.
The younger viewers will need to Google it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I'm really excited tbh.

Ideally would avoid Man City if we did get through a la my opening post.

We're taking Bayern Munich on in a far better position than any of the other times we faced them.

I'm with you on this. I wanted a team that has hurt us a lot in the past, my preferred pick was actually Barca...but I guess Bayern would come a close 2nd if not top the list for most of us.

Anyway, I'm optimistic, as this is probably the most balanced team we've had in a generation....and though Bayern is finally finding some form now, this is probably one of the weakest sides (at least mentally) that they've ever had.

I'm almost certain we'll get past them and be the best side over both legs....however, the thought of facing either of the 2 other best sides left in the competition in the Semis is a bit of a downer, as IMO whoever wins that Semi will likely win this year's competition.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm with you on this. I wanted a team that has hurt us a lot in the past, my preferred pick was actually Barca...but I guess Bayern would come a close 2nd if not top the list for most of us.

Anyway, I'm optimistic, as this is probably the most balanced team we've had in a generation....and though Bayern is finally finding some form now, this is probably one of the weakest sides (at least mentally) that they've ever had.

I'm almost certain we'll get past them and be the best side over both legs....however, the thought of facing either of the 2 other best sides left in the competition in the Semis is a bit of a downer, as IMO whoever wins that Semi will likely win this year's competition.

I think we CAN get past them, I think this is probably the weakest Bayern team in fifteen years. Plus they have stalled a lot at the 1/4 final stage…comprehensively done by City last season, knocked out by Villarreal year before that and then PSG on the away goal rule back in 2021. They will be massively incentivised to go all out given that they aren’t going to win a 12th Bundesliga title.

Arteta squared off against Tuchel three times, and in the head to head is ahead 2 wins to one (winning 4-2 and 1-0 at Stamford Bridge, and losing 2-0 at the Emirates). If we aren’t properly prepared they could do us for pace. I think even if we win at the Emirates we have to be careful how we approach the game in Munich and not let them pen us back.

I’m personally of the opinion that it’s 50/50 (mainly because they have the experience in the competition we lack and because the second leg is in Munich).

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think we CAN get past them, I think this is probably the weakest Bayern team in fifteen years. Plus they have stalled a lot at the 1/4 final stage…comprehensively done by City last season, knocked out by Villarreal year before that and then PSG on the away goal rule back in 2021. They will be massively incentivised to go all out given that they aren’t going to win a 12th Bundesliga title.

Arteta squared off against Tuchel three times, and in the head to head is ahead 2 wins to one (winning 4-2 and 1-0 at Stamford Bridge, and losing 2-0 at the Emirates). If we aren’t properly prepared they could do us for pace. I think even if we win at the Emirates we have to be careful how we approach the game in Munich and not let them pen us back.

I’m personally of the opinion that it’s 50/50 (mainly because they have the experience in the competition we lack and because the second leg is in Munich).

I agree with most of what you've said, though unlike most of you guys, I am actually glad the 2nd leg is at theirs.

I mean, I don't believe the Emirates gives us much of an advantage, look at the Porto game where we should have ripped them apart....the advantage really only came when it got to penalties.

I've always thought we do our best work away and IMO its been like that since we moved to this stadium. Can't even compare how intimidating Highbury was to this.

But besides blaming just the stadium(s), I think the modern generation of elite footballers thrive better in away matches in general. I wish someone would do some kind of in depth analysis but I'm pretty sure their are more away wins than there has ever been across most top leagues in Europe. IIRC Man U played them away first and then had all the pressure (and expectation) to get a result at home...we all know how that went.

So yeah.... IMO Bayern will feel the pressure more than our lads, especially since they've got the history of dumping us out regularly. I think in general, this will play in our favour.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t want to be that guy, but in 17 previous seasons at the Emirates there has only been one season where we’ve done better away from home than at home. It was 2020/2021 - we got 33 points on the road, compared to 28 at the Emirates which was our worst ever season at home going back to the 1980s…and I don’t think it was a coincidence that it was the season where we had no supporters in the ground.

Same in Europe, even with the defeats to Bayern our home form has outstripped our away form. Which is what you’d expect from any team.

There are a few caveats, for example Tuesday night was the first time under Arteta that we’d won a home tie in the knockout phases of a European tournament….first time in six attempts

And it’s just my opinion but I actually think it was playing at home in the second leg that was the reason we went through against Porto. We struggled to create chances at home but that was because we found it nearly impossible to deal with a team that compressed the space (and threw themselves to the floor all the time :lol:) the way they did. I think we do need to adapt to deal with teams that play that way, but i had a look at the group stages the other day and although they won both games…Barca struggled with Porto as well…and just as much at home (wherever it is they are playing this season) as well as at the Dragao.

I think Bayern having no fans at the Emirates does give us a big advantage.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not to say we can’t get a result in Germany. But I’d rather not have to depend on one

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I don’t want to be that guy, but in 17 previous seasons at the Emirates there has only been one season where we’ve done better away from home than at home. It was 2020/2021 - we got 33 points on the road, compared to 28 at the Emirates which was our worst ever season at home going back to the 1980s…and I don’t think it was a coincidence that it was the season where we had no supporters in the ground.

Same in Europe, even with the defeats to Bayern our home form has outstripped our away form. Which is what you’d expect from any team.

There are a few caveats, for example Tuesday night was the first time under Arteta that we’d won a home tie in the knockout phases of a European tournament….first time in six attempts

And it’s just my opinion but I actually think it was playing at home in the second leg that was the reason we went through against Porto. We struggled to create chances at home but that was because we found it nearly impossible to deal with a team that compressed the space (and threw themselves to the floor all the time :lol:) the way they did. I think we do need to adapt to deal with teams that play that way, but i had a look at the group stages the other day and although they won both games…Barca struggled with Porto as well…and just as much at home (wherever it is they are playing this season) as well as at the Dragao.

I think Bayern having no fans at the Emirates does give us a big advantage.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not to say we can’t get a result in Germany. But I’d rather not have to depend on one

I think you missed my opinion a bit.

I didn't say (or mean to say) that we get more points away than we do at home, nor that any team does.

My argument was that the modern player doesn't thrive on pressure and thus we see teams that have must win games at home tend to lose or muck it up.

This was not the way it was in previous generations, and thus we get more away wins than we ever have in football. To make it simpler, its like a percentage argument, if a dominant side in the past got 70% of it points from home form and the remaining 30% from away form, it has changed nowadays, to be more likely something like 58% to 42%.

I haven't done any study or anything but to me its just obvious that home form of most teams isn't what it use to be. I wouldn't want to use your Coronavirus example as proving me right, as that wouldn't even count as every game then was devoid of fans, thus devoid of pressure, thus negating a very important reason I think teams fail to dominate the way they use to at home.

Anyway I think UEFA kind of agrees that the chasm between Home and Away advantage isn't that great anymore, as I believe that was kind of the argument they used to get rid of the away goals rule.

Its just an opinion though but I do hope it holds against Bayern as I really want to beat them in Munich, in front of their fans, no matter what the Emirates result is.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think you missed my opinion a bit.

I didn't say (or mean to say) that we get more points away than we do at home, nor that any team does.

My argument was that the modern player doesn't thrive on pressure and thus we see teams that have must win games at home tend to lose or muck it up.

This was not the way it was in previous generations, and thus we get more away wins than we ever have in football. To make it simpler, its like a percentage argument, if a dominant side in the past got 70% of it points from home form and the remaining 30% from away form, it has changed nowadays, to be more likely something like 58% to 42%.

I haven't done any study or anything but to me its just obvious that home form of most teams isn't what it use to be. I wouldn't want to use your Coronavirus example as proving me right, as that wouldn't even count as every game then was devoid of fans, thus devoid of pressure, thus negating a very important reason I think teams fail to dominate the way they use to at home.

Anyway I think UEFA kind of agrees that the chasm between Home and Away advantage isn't that great anymore, as I believe that was kind of the argument they used to get rid of the away goals rule.

Its just an opinion though but I do hope it holds against Bayern as I really want to beat them in Munich, in front of their fans, no matter what the Emirates result is.

I’m not sure where you’ve got the idea that Choking is a modern phenomena

I can give you plenty of examples of teams falling at the final hurdle in sporting history.

What I think you seem to be saying is that having the crowd on your side is somehow not as influential as it was.


I’m not buying it. I don’t know why UEFA scrapped the away goal rule but the fact is it’s always been a totally arbitrary way to settle a tie.

And a side that loses 1-0 at home but wins 2-1 away can advance anyway so it was nothing to do with determining that there was home advantage


There is a clear psychological advantage to playing at home, the crowd is one factor and the familiarity of the ground is another. If there was no discernible difference this would be borne out by comparative results home and away being similar but it’s not.


Honestly though I think it’s best to recognise where we’ve come to an impasse, I foresee lots of very similar posts where you tell me I’ve not understood your point and I will invariably reply yes I have but I don’t agree/don’t see the evidence for what you’re saying.


And apart from anything else, it’s completely academic anyway

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’m not sure where you’ve got the idea that Choking is a modern phenomena

I can give you plenty of examples of teams falling at the final hurdle in sporting history.

What I think you seem to be saying is that having the crowd on your side is somehow not as influential as it was.


I’m not buying it. I don’t know why UEFA scrapped the away goal rule but the fact is it’s always been a totally arbitrary way to settle a tie.

And a side that loses 1-0 at home but wins 2-1 away can advance anyway so it was nothing to do with determining that there was home advantage


There is a clear psychological advantage to playing at home, the crowd is one factor and the familiarity of the ground is another. If there was no discernible difference this would be borne out by comparative results home and away being similar but it’s not.


Honestly though I think it’s best to recognise where we’ve come to an impasse, I foresee lots of very similar posts where you tell me I’ve not understood your point and I will invariably reply yes I have but I don’t agree/don’t see the evidence for what you’re saying.


And apart from anything else, it’s completely academic anyway

Yeah, the bolded, is pretty close to the opinion I am expressing, or should I say, the reason why I think we have more away wins than we have ever had in football (if I am correct).

Oh and clearly I never suggested choking is new to sport, what I am saying is that these new generation of footballers don't seem to be able to make home advantage count as it use to. Choking is clearly not exclusive to home advantage as we'd be expected to beat Barnet where ever we played them and losing no matter where, would still be choking

After my last post, I thought to myself, this should be something that the marvels of AI should be able to clear up in just a few seconds...I mean it is pure statistics... so I asked both google AI and Chatgpt if they could give me the percentage of away wins in the EPL for every season ( I mean come on, its just 30 something years)....unfortunately they both came back with crap answers asking me to go check sport databases!! What great technological leaps we have made :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well it’s not true of us. The highest points total we achieved on the road was the double winning season of 01/02. Where we won 14 games and drew 5. We’ve come not at all close to repeating that high water mark.


I think we are performing much better away from home in the last few seasons than we were, but that’s really relative to the real pits under AW (in his last season we won 4 away from home and lost 11 - including 7 in a row)


But when you look at results against big sides, we won last month at home to Liverpool, not won away at Anfield since 2012.


City we beat last year at home, haven’t won away there since 2015 and that in turn was our first win there since 2010


There are always outliers (winning three times in a row at the Bridge, compared to twice in the same period at home)

City? Well there probably is evidence that their home form and away form is similar (though less so this season and last)

But yeah have to admit not seeing a trend towards equivalence, but not to say it won’t go that way

[Letters]

I don’t think Highbury was ever that intimidating.
I’m not sure The Emirates is either.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t think Highbury was ever that intimidating.
I’m not sure The Emirates is either.

No but I think there is more factors to home advantage than purely intimidation. The crowd is not just about shitting up away teams, it’s about giving succour to home team. Yes unfortunately it was called the Library at times. But in the big games (especially the NLD) the noise level is marked

[Letters]

No but I think there is more factors to home advantage than purely intimidation. The crowd is not just about shitting up away teams, it’s about giving succour to home team. Yes unfortunately it was called the Library at times. But in the big games (especially the NLD) the noise level is marked

Home advantage is definitely a thing and the crowd does play its part getting the team going. The crowd are probably a bit more raucous right now as things are going well so there is more of a bond between the club and its fans than there’s been for a long time.
I was more responding to 21’s assertion that Highbury was intimidating. It was probably known as a tough place to come because we’ve historically been one of the better teams, but we’re hardly Galatasaray.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Home advantage is definitely a thing and the crowd does play its part getting the team going. The crowd are probably a bit more raucous right now as things are going well so there is more of a bond between the club and its fans than there’s been for a long time.
I was more responding to 21’s assertion that Highbury was intimidating. It was probably known as a tough place to come because we’ve historically been one of the better teams, but we’re hardly Galatasaray.

Ah, yeah the library was never intimidating


The places that rely on intimidation never really work in a footballing sense. The Velodrome in Marseille is a veritable cauldron but we won there quite easily as I recall on both visits, the intimidation factor is the fact that their ultras will kick the shit out of you.

Same with the old Ali Sami Yen. Good record against Turkish teams, but wouldn’t want to go there to watch us play because their fans get very stabby.


Then again I’ve only ever watched one game of football on the continent (was champions league but wasn’t Arsenal) and that was Sparta Prague vs Panathinaikos. Fortunately the atmosphere in the stands was as sedate as the game.


Even the Greek fans seemed almost put out that they had to celebrate the goals on their way to a 2-0 win