Atalanta vs Arsenal, 19.09.2024 - 20:00

[HCZ_Reborn]

Normally I’d be quite looking forward to this match as a good fixture to cut our teeth on, but UEFA fucking around with the fixture schedule to put this match on a Thursday just makes it a distraction three days before City.


I don’t know much about Atalanta, apart from the fact that it’s in Bergamo and they were the only team to beat Bayer Leverkusen last season.

Oh and Kolasinac is one of their defenders

[Marc Overmars]

We don’t really travel well in Europe (lost 3 of the 5 away games last year) so I suspect this will be a tricky game. Quite annoying it’s on a Thursday given the fixture that follows.

Would like to see Sterling start this. Jesus too, he was decent in the group stage last season.

[Mac76]

3-0 Retegui hatter

[Letters]

I hope we win, tbh.

[Mac76]

I prefer it sans comma i think...

[HCZ_Reborn]

I agree with MO about starting Jesus and Sterling

[Letters]

I prefer it sans comma i think...

The comma has been working just fine this season :angry:

[Mac76]

The comma has been working just fine this season :angry:

ok, ok whatever :)

[Marc Overmars]

Arteta has confirmed that Odegaard has ligament damage and will be “out for a while”.

Fuck sake.

:rose:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm just glad it wasn't an ankle break, it so easily could've been.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We don’t really travel well in Europe (lost 3 of the 5 away games last year) so I suspect this will be a tricky game. Quite annoying it’s on a Thursday given the fixture that follows.

Would like to see Sterling start this. Jesus too, he was decent in the group stage last season.
Yup agree. Should be more of the "2nd team" that starts the game. I'd even go as far as saying Nwaneri and co should be starters and play most of the match.

[Mac76]

Arteta has confirmed that Odegaard has ligament damage and will be “out for a while”.

Fuck sake.

:rose:

We beat the Spuds without him, we'll just have to adapt our play and make the best of it

The worst thing is if it means Havertz stays in midfield, whule he did a good job there, it seems to me that alongside Saka he's our best goalscoring threat up front

[Mac76]

Yup agree. Should be more of the "2nd team" that starts the game. I'd even go as far as saying Nwaneri and co should be starters and play most of the match.

I agree though knowing Arteta he'll play a lot of the first team

One thing's for sure, Saka shouldn't even be on the plane given he's nursing a knock

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’d even play Neto tonight instead of Raya, see how he handles himself in case the latter gets injured


Neto, Timber, Gabriel, Kiwior, Calafiori, Jorginho, Rice, Nwaneri, Martinelli, Jesus, Sterling

[Mac76]

I’d even play Neto tonight instead of Raya, see how he handles himself in case the latter gets injured


Neto, Timber, Gabriel, Kiwior, Calafiori, Jorginho, Rice, Nwaneri, Martinelli, Jesus, Sterling

Yeah would love to see that lineup, gives them game time and would show that Arteta's learning

Again I'll be amazed if he does it though

[Letters]

Oi! You two!
Stop agreeing about stuff <_<

[Mac76]

Gosh some people are never happy :rolleyes: :)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gosh some people are never happy :rolleyes: :)

Like me after seeing that line up

[The Wengerbabies]

https://i.ibb.co/Zc0TbvL/Screenshot-from-2024-09-19-19-29-23.png

[The Wengerbabies]

Must win.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Atalanta: Carnesecchi; Djimisti, Hien, Kolasinac; Zappacosta, De Roon, Ederson, Ruggeri; De Ketelaere, Retegui, Lookman
Subs: Rui Patricio, Rossi, Kossounou, Cuadrado, Pasalic, Zaniolo, Bellanova, Samardzic, Palestra, Brescianni, Vlahovic, Del Lungo

Arsenal: Raya, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Timber, Rice, Partey, Havertz, Saka, Jesus, Martinelli.
Subs: Neto, Porter, Calafiori, Lewis-Skelly, Kiwior, Jorginho, Nwaneri, Gower, S. Oulad-M’Hand, Trossard, Sterling, Butler-Oyedeji.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Kolasinac. :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Bit disappointed that Sterling and Calafiori aren’t starting.

Is that Havertz in midfield again? Didn’t last season teach us that it renders him useless?

[Mac76]

No rotation at all, thank god we don't have an important match at the weekend... :rolleyes:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Atalanta: Carnesecchi; Djimisti, Hien, Kolasinac; Zappacosta, De Roon, Ederson, Ruggeri; De Ketelaere, Retegui, Lookman
Subs: Rui Patricio, Rossi, Kossounou, Cuadrado, Pasalic, Zaniolo, Bellanova, Samardzic, Palestra, Brescianni, Vlahovic, Del Lungo

Arsenal: Raya, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Timber, Rice, Partey, Havertz, Saka, Jesus, Martinelli.
Subs: Neto, Porter, Calafiori, Lewis-Skelly, Kiwior, Jorginho, Nwaneri, Gower, S. Oulad-M’Hand, Trossard, Sterling, Butler-Oyedeji.

At least he could have rested Partey.

Can't see us getting value from a Partey that plays 3 games in 7 days.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ederson booked. :popcorn:

[Mac76]

At least Trossard's refereeing the game, that should help

[Mac76]

So close from Saka

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Saka freekick saved!

[HCZ_Reborn]

At least Trossard's refereeing the game, that should help

Gary Cotteril has remarked on this

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Pure shite.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-0 HT. That was truly awful.

[Mac76]

0-0 HT. That was truly awful.

i have to agree

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

0-0 HT. That was truly awful.

At least we recovered the ability to string passes together unlike against Spurs.

A tame game, looking like they'd also be happy to take a draw. I just hope we won't regret not resting players in this game. Saka already looking suspect.

Also, Havertz remains the hardest working player in attack again. Its funny what this deep role does to him.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

i have to agree

See, watching the 90mins makes a difference.

[Mac76]

See, watching the 90mins makes a difference.

You mean 45? ;)

[Mac76]

Pel to Atalanta

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Pelanty to Atalanta. :doh:

[Mac76]

Raya saves!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Partey should have been rested.

Silly to have risked this.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Raya saves!

Seems my stream is pretty slow.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

HOLY SHIT RAYA DOUBLE SAVE!!!

[dazthegooner]

What shit from TNT was it a great save or a bad header.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Partey
Jesus off

Trossard and Jorginho on.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Good effort from Cuadrado.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Timber and Saka off, Calafiori and Sterling on.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Martinelli. :haha:

[Mac76]

Rice :doh:

[dazthegooner]

0-0

[Mac76]

0-0 FT

Decent point I suppose, at least he did use a few subs

[McNamara That Ghost...]

0-0 FT. :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Can’t say I’m too impressed with our failure to register a shot on goal between the 18th minute and the 75th minute.

We’ve scored six goals in five games this season, and whilst our defence has largely been peerless and Raya has been exceptional, we clearly need to have a think about our attack. Away from home, it seems to just be a hope that we have Nick a goal and then execute a shut out. Well tonight we had the shut out (It seems despite territorial advantage…Atalanta didn’t create that much). If this is the scoreline against City…fine I’ll be more than happy with that.

Leicester and Southampton at home, when they stick 11 men behind the ball…I think we need to address chance creation

[Mac76]

Away from home, it seems to just be a hope that we have Nick a goal and then execute a shut out.

And Nick wasn't even in the squad tonight, so that was never going to work

[HCZ_Reborn]

And Nick wasn't even in the squad tonight, so that was never going to work

You should be ashamed, you won’t be but you should

[Mac76]

:lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Pretty shit but as usual the defence ensures we get a result.

Think we need to beat PSG next if we have designs of finishing in the top 8 and our away form in Europe really needs to start delivering more wins too.

[Marc Overmars]

Martinelli has apparently gone 17 games without registering a goal or assist.

Completely fluffed his lines once again with his chance last night. The boy ain’t right.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

My take back from yesterday is Arteta has a huge job trying to figure out what team he is going to put out that will match Citeh.

We did ourselves no favours as he started his "strongest" available squad and their was little if any improvement.

The biggest worry IMO from the last 2 matches is the absence of any impact from Saka since Odegaard hasn't been available.

This has actually shocked me as I use to think the loss of his RB would be more important to his form than Odegaard.

Arteta really needs a solid plan against Citeh and parking the bus isn't it, seeing as he's shown his cards way too early.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You won’t be surprised to learn that I disagree, I can’t speak of last night but against Spurs he was consistently our best attacking player.

The problem is too many players behind him are forever playing backwards passes

I think the solution is for Saka to move into the Odegaard role and play more centrally, stats wise his involvement in goal creation is only just behind that of Odegaard and having tried both Trossard and Havertz in that position it’s clear it doesn’t work.

[Marc Overmars]

We don’t have enough up front to beat City unless we park the bus and score from a rare chance we might get. They know it, we know it.

I think they will be looking to destroy us after we frustrated them last season.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We don’t have enough up front to beat City unless we park the bus and score from a rare chance we might get. They know it, we know it.

I think they will be looking to destroy us after we frustrated them last season.

I can't see how Arteta would expect to beat or even get a point against Citeh if Pep knew 100% the tactics and team he would employ. I'd imagine he must be thinking of some sort of variation that would surprise Pep and leave him unprepared.

In my mind, there is no doubt that if we have no potent outlet on Sunday, we will lose. In fact I am almost sure we will concede a penalty on Sunday if we choose to sitback for 90 mins.

Anyway there are still some slight modifications Arteta can make that could unsettle Peps preparation.... a crazy one involves actually playing all 3 DMs at the same time (though I think he's likely to play 5 defenders instead).

Also ensuring Trossard plays most of the game is a bit of a no brainer (though his form has also been terrible in the last 2 games).

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You won’t be surprised to learn that I disagree, I can’t speak of last night but against Spurs he was consistently our best attacking player.

The problem is too many players behind him are forever playing backwards passes

I think the solution is for Saka to move into the Odegaard role and play more centrally, stats wise his involvement in goal creation is only just behind that of Odegaard and having tried both Trossard and Havertz in that position it’s clear it doesn’t work.

Yup, not surprised and totally disagree.

Saka either plays on the left or on the right... I can't see why anyone would ever want to move him into the CM role, especially when he's never shown the tools to be able to flourish there.

Let's just pray Arteta conjures a solution or gives him his elixir, because we'll need the real Saka like crazy on Sunday.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He clearly has the tools to play in the centre, he has the passing range and the technical ability

That you can’t see it, is more a sign of your own limited vision and not a sign of Saka’s shortcomings

[Mac76]

I'm somewhere inbetween you and 21GS on that, I think Saka could play inside but not convinced that a) he has Odegaard's vision there and b) it's as useful as having him on the wing - you also have to consider the job he does backing up White on that side also in defence

[KSE Comedy Club]

We don’t have enough up front to beat City unless we park the bus and score from a rare chance we might get. They know it, we know it.

I think they will be looking to destroy us after we frustrated them last season.

I actually expect to see a carbon copy of the last game against them.

We'll defend the whole game an it'll be another 0-0 bore 'the fuck out of everyone' fest.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Jesus is dead and buried, not sure what he offers us anymore.
Partey is about 10 mins off the pace of the game
Martinelli, well fuck knows what is wrong with him, he's lost his pace, can't shoot on target and is generally half the player he once was.
Trossard is only really good off the bench, although he didn't do much last night either.
Sterling - WTF did we even sign him for?? been completely non-existent.

Should've bought a striker and at least 2 more players in the transfer window as this team is woefully short creatively.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm somewhere inbetween you and 21GS on that, I think Saka could play inside but not convinced that a) he has Odegaard's vision there and b) it's as useful as having him on the wing - you also have to consider the job he does backing up White on that side also in defence

I don’t think he’d be as good as Odegaard either but I think given it’s likely we won’t see Odegaard again until not going outside without a coat on becomes a constant thing….hes clearly the best option for the role.
The main fault was playing Jesus up front last night…why? Hes not a striker…he won’t hold up the ball. He’s still got enough pace and trickery to operate on the right.


The other stupid thing is playing Partey as a number 6…again why…he can’t play there. Just like Rice isn’t good enough in transition play to be a number 8. He’s clearly better at interceptions than he is getting forward.

For the moment the only option as I see it, is to have Rice at 6 and Partey at 8. Rather than the mess we have now which is Rice trying to perform at six and eight helped out by a pointless inverted left back system and Partey wanders around aimlessly like someone’s grandad with Alzheimer’s trying to find his wife but unable to comprehend that she’s been dead ten years.

[Mac76]

Jesus is dead and buried, not sure what he offers us anymore.
Partey is about 10 mins off the pace of the game
Martinelli, well fuck knows what is wrong with him, he's lost his pace, can't shoot on target and is generally half the player he once was.
Trossard is only really good off the bench, although he didn't do much last night either.
Sterling - WTF did we even sign him for?? been completely non-existent.

Should've bought a striker and at least 2 more players in the transfer window as this team is woefully short creatively.

Jesus - definitely not what he was, but a lively player who can be a useful sub or cup game starter
Partey - is again not what he was but I'm surprised at the extent he's gone from hero to zero with everyone - as always it's not quite that extreme although he was very clumsy for the pel yesterday
Martinell - disagree re his pace, he still has it in spades but his decision-making near goal is rock-bottom
Trossard - again I think it's more nuanced than that, I thikn he adds a lot of workmanlike stuff people don't always see
Sterling - give the guy a chance he's only had a few sub appearances and won't really know his teammates' play yet

But yes we should bought a goalscorer, in slight mitigation I think KSE had said we needed to break even though and i guess it means we couldn't go large enough on a chosen target

[KSE Comedy Club]

Jesus - definitely not what he was, but a lively player who can be a useful sub or cup game starter
Partey - is again not what he was but I'm surprised at the extent he's gone from hero to zero with everyone - as always it's not quite that extreme although he was very clumsy for the pel yesterday
Martinell - disagree re his pace, he still has it in spades but his decision-making near goal is rock-bottom
Trossard - again I think it's more nuanced than that, I thikn he adds a lot of workmanlike stuff people don't always see
Sterling - give the guy a chance he's only had a few sub appearances and won't really know his teammates' play yet

But yes we should bought a goalscorer, in slight mitigation I think KSE had said we needed to break even though and i guess it means we couldn't go large enough on a chosen target

I don't know how much you've watched this season Mac, but I have seen every game so far and what I have noticed from these players since last season:

Jesus - Doesn't score goals, always offside & pulls out of most 1v1's.
Partey - he's been off the pace since the season started, very sluggish looking in most games and the pen didn't surprise me as once again he was behind the play.
Martinelli - yes he has pace, but he is getting beating to nearly every ball in a 1v1 sprint, where he never was before.

The problem is we have workhorse players in abundance, but no one to actually be clinical and take the game by the scruff. The lack of goals from our attack is testament to this, Goals have mainly been from defenders and set pieces. I love our tough defence so that is a massive bonus - but even against Spurs, we looked creatively dead.
The attack just seems to dither, misplace passes, pass too much or shoot off target or straight at the keeper.

Not sure I trust what KSE say massively as some reports suggest we had over £100m to spend before PSR came into effect.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Goals have mainly been from defenders ?? We’ve had one goal scored by a defender this season, and going back to the start of the 2022-2023 season we’ve had 19 goals scored by defenders out of a possible 185.

We all agree that we lack and out and out goalscorer but it’s clearly silly to say that our attacking players don’t get goals. Saka, Havertz and Trossard all got into double figures last season. Jesus, Martinelli, Odegaard, Saka got into double figures the season before that.

I’m not sure our goal output will be as high as it was last season or the season before that but that was 179 goals over two seasons. Which is higher than some of our best seasons under Wenger.

I think the over emphasis on defence blunts our attack, and without Odegaard we haven’t really bothered to identify an alternative attacking focal point. But equally we can look at it, in that we’ve had bloody hard fixtures to play in a short space of time and if we get a draw against city we have done well.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Goals have mainly been from defenders ?? We’ve had one goal scored by a defender this season, and going back to the start of the 2022-2023 season we’ve had 19 goals scored by defenders out of a possible 185.

We all agree that we lack and out and out goalscorer but it’s clearly silly to say that our attacking players don’t get goals. Saka, Havertz and Trossard all got into double figures last season. Jesus, Martinelli, Odegaard, Saka got into double figures the season before that.

I’m not sure our goal output will be as high as it was last season or the season before that but that was 179 goals over two seasons. Which is higher than some of our best seasons under Wenger.

I think the over emphasis on defence blunts our attack, and without Odegaard we haven’t really bothered to identify an alternative attacking focal point. But equally we can look at it, in that we’ve had bloody hard fixtures to play in a short space of time and if we get a draw against city we have done well.

Slight exaggeration yes but it feels like it!
The attack has hardly been prolific so far this season.

I am only talking about this season too, not last year or the year before that. I am only looking at what they are doing currently.

Also, I would like to get a win against city rather than going for a draw. Whist in isolation it's still a good result, I would prefer to see a progression from where we were against them last time round instead of doing the same thing again.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Slight exaggeration yes but it feels like it!
The attack has hardly been prolific so far this season.

I am only talking about this season too, not last year or the year before that. I am only looking at what they are doing currently

I think we’ve had harder games to start with than the previous two seasons. The only easy game we’ve had in my view was the home game against Wolves…yeah we only scored two but opening game of the season and all that.


After City, we have four home games back to back Bolton, Leicester, PSG and Southampton. If we aren’t seeing more goals after those fixtures, then I will be a tad concerned

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think we’ve had harder games to start with than the previous two seasons. The only easy game we’ve had in my view was the home game against Wolves…yeah we only scored two but opening game of the season and all that.


After City, we have four home games back to back Bolton, Leicester, PSG and Southampton. If we aren’t seeing more goals after those fixtures, then I will be a tad concerned

Yeh maybe you are right :good:

Let's see what happens after the City game but I still would rather we beat them for once

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeh maybe you are right :good:

Let's see what happens after the City game but I still would rather we beat them for once

I think even if we were free flowing with the goals, beating City would be a challenge. The fuckers just don’t lose, they’ve lost once in 2024 and haven’t lost at home since 2022.

That’s not to say we can’t or won’t win, it’s just a big fucking challenge

[Letters]

That double save :bow:
Penalty save was good, but standard. To get up and react and save the follow up was outstanding.
:bow:

[Mac76]

I don't know how much you've watched this season Mac, but I have seen every game so far and what I have noticed from these players since last season:

Jesus - Doesn't score goals, always offside & pulls out of most 1v1's.
Partey - he's been off the pace since the season started, very sluggish looking in most games and the pen didn't surprise me as once again he was behind the play.
Martinelli - yes he has pace, but he is getting beating to nearly every ball in a 1v1 sprint, where he never was before.

The problem is we have workhorse players in abundance, but no one to actually be clinical and take the game by the scruff. The lack of goals from our attack is testament to this, Goals have mainly been from defenders and set pieces. I love our tough defence so that is a massive bonus - but even against Spurs, we looked creatively dead.
The attack just seems to dither, misplace passes, pass too much or shoot off target or straight at the keeper.

Not sure I trust what KSE say massively as some reports suggest we had over £100m to spend before PSR came into effect.

Almost all of it except spuds where i famously listened on the radio and then watched quite a bit after

Yes you are right about Partey, it is a bigger slump than i said above, he doesn't offer much going forward any more and has loat any speed in defence

Jesus has never been as good as he was pre World Cup but as i said i think he's still a useful squad player

And goals are a real issue i don't disagree and taking Havertz away from his best position doesn't help either

[Letters]

197 :bow:

That's how many games we've played in the CL now.
No team has played more than us...without winning it :cool:


:doh:

[HCZ_Reborn]

197 :bow:

That's how many games we've played in the CL now.
No team has played more than us...without winning it :cool:


:doh:

Yeah we’ve never been great in Europe

I think the UCL is a prize I would love this club to win, but it was massively devalued for me after Chelsea won it

No matter when or even if we win it, it will always be tainted by that

When we were exiled into the Europa League, I expected that we would win that competition and we should have done really.

The Fairs cup in 1970 and the Cup winners cup in 1994 is a pretty meagre return in terms of European success. Yes we have managed wins at Bayern Munich, Dortmund, Real Madrid and Milan. But really that’s no more than you’d expect of a team that qualified for the competition as many times as we have. I think it can be said that it’s harder to break the stranglehold of clubs like Real Madrid and Man City but similarly…one 1/4 final from the past eight seasons is pretty shoddy.


Arteta’s record with us in Europe can be described as average at best, but really he’s no worse than Wenger. Who never faired that well as a coach in European club competition with Monaco either, one final with us….one final of cup winners cup in 1992 when they were well beaten by Werder Bremen (managed by Otto Rehagel who went on to win Euro 2004 with Greece)

[Letters]

His failure in Europe is a big black mark on Wenger's time with us - given how good we were in that period. (Also never retaining a title, far too content to rest on his laurels, Utd never did that, they always strengthened, or tried to).

I was at the UEFA Cup final in 2000 and the CL one in 2006 <_<
The latter at least was a good experience - I mean, just being at a CL Final is pretty special.
But yes, as a club our record in Europe is poor.

[Mac76]

tbf 2006 was daylight robbery, we'll never know what might have happened if.... :(

[Marc Overmars]

We’re by far the biggest club to have never won the CL and it does pain me that our European record overall is shoddy. No idea why we’ve never cracked it or even looked like cracking it bar the 2006 run to the final. We’ve had a team that should have been capable of winning the CL and in recent times I felt our Europa League campaigns could have delivered more than they did. Things just seem to happen in Europe for other clubs but for us it’s all a bit tame.

[GP]

2004 was the year. Really should have won it then.

[Niall_Quinn]

2004 was the year. Really should have won it then.

You talking about your communist agenda or football?