Match Reaction: Inter 1 Arsenal 0

[Chippy]

Although disappointed, I honestly thought we were unlucky last night.

We had the most possession and more shots.

Great to see Odegaard back and the difference Nwaneri made in the short time he played.

You obviously have to beat the opposition AND the Referee in Italy.

Chavs next.

[Marc Overmars]

Performance was ok but not enough up front. Story of our lives.

Need a huge showing at Chelsea now because this season is already shaping up to be a bit of a disaster. The team has regressed quite badly and find themselves a long way off the levels they found last year.

[Mac76]

Nwaneri should have started and should have been used more in geeneral in the period while Odegaard's not been fit - if so we could by now have a real alternative to Odegaard instead of someone who's still confined to bit parts because Arteta is too conservative

it's a self-fulfilling prophecy - by not giving players enough time in games where it's not too much of a risk, he then becomes more cautious about playing them in other games becasue they've not had much playing time...

[HCZ_Reborn]

This reminds me of our form in December last year. Which carried through to January, eleven goals scored in nine games. 4 defeats, 13 goals conceded.

As always, the problem is in attack….people assumed because we started scoring four and five goals in games for a while that there wasn’t an issue going forward, but the problem is we are reliant on players who go on and off the boil. Havertz is not prolific, Trossard is not prolific, Saka and Martinelli are not strikers (neither arguably are the first two)

Last night the problem wasn’t even not creating chances, we had an XG of over 2 (which isn’t bad for a game in the San Siro) the problem was putting those chances away.

[KSE Comedy Club]

We are going backwards - it's been happening for the last 4 or 5 weeks.

Our whole attack is set up to try and win corners and see if we can head it in - it's pathetic.

Our excellent defensive record has been smashed to bits recently too.
We now can't defend well and can't score at all.

And I don't want to hear one more comment about Odegaard being out - we should still have enough to be able to create chances and score!

Arteta has done well the last two seasons but this season should have been the one to push on and instead he's fallen off the wagon.

It's gonna be a top 4 battle if we are lucky some the end of the season - and if that is the case then Arteta needs to go at the end of it.

[KSE Comedy Club]

This reminds me of our form in December last year. Which carried through to January, eleven goals scored in nine games. 4 defeats, 13 goals conceded.

As always, the problem is in attack….people assumed because we started scoring four and five goals in games for a while that there wasn’t an issue going forward, but the problem is we are reliant on players who go on and off the boil. Havertz is not prolific, Trossard is not prolific, Saka and Martinelli are not strikers (neither arguably are the first two)

Last night the problem wasn’t even not creating chances, we had an XG of over 2 (which isn’t bad for a game in the San Siro) the problem was putting those chances away.

And that form is what lost us the title last season.

People always say 'it was the Villa game' but it bloody well wasn't!!
It was that shite December period where we fucked about and played like losers & dropped 12 points.

And FOR THE LOVE OF GOD...... is it too much to ask for our professional attackers to shoot the ball at the fucking goal and not put it wide or launch it into space everytime!!

:censored::censored::censored:

[Letters]

Last night the problem wasn’t even not creating chances, we had an XG of over 2 (which isn’t bad for a game in the San Siro) the problem was putting those chances away.
Which is why I've hopped on the #ArtetaOut bandwaggon. The lack of a clinical striker was such an obvious problem last season, to fail to address it is just negligent. The penalty was bollox but it's yet another game where we didn't score and that means the best we'll ever get is a draw. If we lose at Chelsea, or even draw really, then I think the fans will start to turn against Arteta.

[Marc Overmars]

I do also wonder how much has possibly been taken away psychologically after missing out last season. I did have concerns about this year simply because of the fact I felt we played better than anyone ever thought we could last year and for that to still not be good enough must have cut deep.

We’ve never been as good as that peak Klopp team either so I’m not sure if we have it in our locker to find a level as relentless as that again.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I do also wonder how much has possibly been taken away psychologically after missing out last season. I did have concerns about this year simply because of the fact I felt we played better than anyone ever thought we could last year and for that to still not be good enough must have cut deep.

We’ve never been as good as that peak Klopp team either so I’m not sure if we have it in our locker to find a level as relentless as that again.

Winners go again, losers collapse and fade

[Marc Overmars]

Winners go again, losers collapse and fade

Absolutely and this team are very much in danger of falling into that loser category now.

[Letters]

Aye. Liverpool had the same issue with City. That season where they got 97 points and didn't win it must have been soul destroying. But they picked themselves up and won it. We haven't pushed on, we've gone backwards.

[IBK]

This game had 0-0 all over it. Bar the first 5 minutes, Inter offered relatively little. We controlled the game to a large extent, and going a very unfortunate penalty goal down to a team like Inter was always going to be a tough ask. A draw would have been a fair, and an OK away result for us.

But...we lost the game. And for me this was a combination of:

- Arteta's selection mistakes. A MF of Partey; Merino and essentially Havertz - with an out of form Trossard up top was never going to take the game effectively to Inter, (not enough craft) and the second half from us was better after Merino had been taken off and. The problem was that it was too late by then - if we struggle to break down Bournemouth and Newcastle's low block then trying to score against arguably the best defence in Europe with them a goal in front was always going to be a tough ask.

While I thought Partey did OK, we needed the guile of Jorghino - and I cannot for the life of me understand why he has been discarded in favour of the manager's new toy, who simply is not working at the moment.

I agree with all those who advocated for Nwaneri - who should have replaced Merino at half time. 10 minutes at the end was not enough. By getting rid of Smith Rowe and Vieira, the manager left us with only Nwaneri to replace what Odegard brings to the team. While I understand a certain amount of caution in throwing Nwaneri in at the deep end, when this is your only option for creativity, you have to be bold and let him play. There was not a great deal to lose in this game, given the game state and the obvious problems we were having breaking Inter down. there are times when Arteta's stubbornness is infuriating.

- Out of form players. I thought Trossard (again); Martinelli (again), and even Saka (I know he was double marked, but even so he was subdued) were disappointing. Martinelli in particular frustrated me in his failure to take players on. I wonder, however, whether this is part and parcel of the way we are set up, and our lack of creativity in MF. It was noticeable how slow were were in progressing the ball, and were almost always outnumbered 2:1 in their third.

- Tactics. What I was thinking in the first part of the game was the contrast between a team that breaks quickly and shoots from distance, and our team that spends so much time passing square and backwards, giving the opposition all the time in the world to get into defensive shape. If we have as good a defence as is claimed, does this not give us a certain license to take a few risks in trying to progress the ball? I saw Partey trying to do so. Maybe Saliba and Timber, but few others. Possession, safety first football is not working for us, and its almost embarrassing trying to rely on set pieces to score - as though we are Everton or Stoke. Also, has anyone considered why we get so many corners (that are no longer a 'guaranteed' goal opportunity BTW - has anyone noticed this?). It's because our wingers are playing for them, first because there are so few runs being made into the opposition's box, and second because they have become a sort of obsession for us.

We have seen all this before - ponderous, robotic build up play; the horseshoe of doom; lack of movement; inability to finish. It's becoming the hallmark of Arteta's play, and we are one dimensional. We thought that our sparkling second half of last season had seen a departure from this - but it seems that as the result of one player's absence, we have reverted to type. This is not good enough given the money that has been spent on this squad.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The playing for corners and it becoming an obsession is spot on.

Not much more to add, its quite clear there is a healthy consensus here (and really with the rest of footballdom).....the question is, is it worth waiting for Arteta to catchup with the rest of us.

Like someone said on here, its like we are doing the AW thing all over again .

[KSE Comedy Club]

We have seen all this before - ponderous, robotic build up play; the horseshoe of doom; lack of movement; inability to finish. It's becoming the hallmark of Arteta's play, and we are one dimensional. We thought that our sparkling second half of last season had seen a departure from this - but it seems that as the result of one player's absence, we have reverted to type. This is not good enough given the money that has been spent on this squad.

And that is the crux of this - We should be the team that are challenging consistently now for every trophy - but yet again we've been nearly men and then dropped off.
We were still 2-3 players short after the summer (which is inexcusable) and are brilliant attacking football that saw us do so well 2nd half of last season has come undone due to 1 injury.

Imagine if Slot wins the PL in his first season as well .

I just don't see how Arteta can stay if we fail again this season.

[Chippy]

And that is the crux of this - We should be the team that are challenging consistently now for every trophy - but yet again we've been nearly men and then dropped off.
We were still 2-3 players short after the summer (which is inexcusable) and are brilliant attacking football that saw us do so well 2nd half of last season has come undone due to 1 injury.

Imagine if Slot wins the PL in his first season as well .

I just don't see how Arteta can stay if we fail again this season.

Arteta cannot possibly stay if we fail again. Especially after spending £650m on players.

[Mac76]

Arteta cannot possibly stay if we fail again. Especially after spending £650m on players.

But we all know he will, he's nowhere near being sacked unless we lose the next ten games straight, even then I think they would be heavily influenced by our coming close in the last two seasons to give him more of a chance

I've said it before, say what you like about a club like Abramovic's Chelsea, no manager stayed beyond their sell-by date and there's something to be said for that

[HCZ_Reborn]

But we all know he will, he's nowhere near being sacked unless we lose the next ten games straight, even then I think they would be heavily influenced by our coming close in the last two seasons to give him more of a chance

I've said it before, say what you like about a club like Abramovic's Chelsea, no manager stayed beyond their sell-by date and there's something to be said for that

That club is an absolute hot mess, and often coaches are hung out to dry as a quick fix without addressing the underlying issues which are either a toxic dressing room or squad issues.

Then again neither do I want to emulate the United model of keeping managers on long past time (although as Amorim will discover, changing managers there will not help them)

Getting rid of Arteta needs to be purposeful, as in making sure someone is identified who could do a better job with our team.

There is equally the issue of whether the club would back this personal financially with the money we need to bring in the attacking players we need

[Mac76]

That club is an absolute hot mess, and often coaches are hung out to dry as a quick fix without addressing the underlying issues which are either a toxic dressing room or squad issues.



They are now yes, which is why i emphasised Abramovic's Chelsea, not Boehly's

You really do need to read properly before you go off on one

[Niall_Quinn]

Another case of officialdom determining the outcome because we allowed them to do it. The solution is similar to Trump's recent strategy. Make it too big to rig. Score more goals. Become less conservative and more ambitious. Take the losses that occur and which have been accruing anyway, but also take the extra points that are being chucked away through a lack of intent.

[HCZ_Reborn]

They are now yes, which is why i emphasised Abramovic's Chelsea, not Boehly's

You really do need to read properly before you go off on one

Erm no, they were just as bad for that sort of thing under Abramovich, if you think the instability at that club has only been a feature the last couple of years, I don’t know what to tell you

[Mac76]

Erm no, they were just as bad for that sort of thing under Abramovich, if you think the instability at that club has only been a feature the last couple of years, I don’t know what to tell you

Erm yes, they had a high-spending, hire-and-fire strategy but it was very firmly linked to success, as demonstrated by numerous cup, PL and CL wins

[Letters]

But we all know he will, he's nowhere near being sacked unless we lose the next ten games straight, even then I think they would be heavily influenced by our coming close in the last two seasons to give him more of a chance

I've said it before, say what you like about a club like Abramovic's Chelsea, no manager stayed beyond their sell-by date and there's something to be said for that
A mate of mine (Spurs fan) said he might have a punt with the Bookies on Arteta being the next PL manager to be sacked. I counselled him against that. Unless it's an absolute car crash it will be all "trust the process" no matter what the fans thing. And, to an extent, the fans shouldn't be making this decision - we are largely idiots. But even idiots can see that the lack of a striker was an issue over the last couple of seasons. To go into another season with that not addressed is inexcusable.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Erm yes, they had a high-spending, hire-and-fire strategy but it was very firmly linked to success, as demonstrated by numerous cup, PL and CL wins

They were all over the place at times, despite the money they spent…they were never able to gain any kind of consistency. One season they’d finish champions the next mid table. As I say a hot mess

[Mac76]

They were all over the place at times, despite the money they spent…they were never able to gain any kind of consistency. One season they’d finish champions the next mid table. As I say a hot mess

The only hot mess i can see is in your brain, if you think the positions you take make any sense you're sadly wrong

[HCZ_Reborn]

A mate of mine (Spurs fan) said he might have a punt with the Bookies on Arteta being the next PL manager to be sacked. I counselled him against that. Unless it's an absolute car crash it will be all "trust the process" no matter what the fans thing. And, to an extent, the fans shouldn't be making this decision - we are largely idiots. But even idiots can see that the lack of a striker was an issue over the last couple of seasons. To go into another season with that not addressed is inexcusable.

I don’t think the majority of fans want Arteta gone either.

But yes We can absolutely rule out the idea that he will be gone before the end of the season without the car crash, and I doubt he will be gone full stop unless we fall outside the top four (which is what the owners care about)

[HCZ_Reborn]

The only hot mess i can see is in your brain, if you think the positions you take make any sense you're sadly wrong

Your reply is amusing given you get so worked up when I apparently give you “abuse”.

No I don’t think Chelsea’s history is that of a good or sustainable way to run a football club, I don’t really get how that’s controversial. I want success of course but I don’t want to get through two or three coaches in a season and never be able to build on success because you might win a big trophy one season and then you’re being beaten at home by QPR the next (and that’s not just even a hypothetical that’s exactly what happened with Chelsea)

When they won things it wasn’t because they were working to a good model, it’s because they spent fuck loads of money.

[IBK]

I don’t think the majority of fans want Arteta gone either.

But yes We can absolutely rule out the idea that he will be gone before the end of the season without the car crash, and I doubt he will be gone full stop unless we fall outside the top four (which is what the owners care about)

Let's face it, he has done enough up to this point (despite our recent issues) for his job to be safe. Let's also not forget that a new director of football would need to be well established before it made sense to get rid - even if our malaise continues.

I'm a bit bipolar with Arsenal. I can see the current problems, but at least the second half last night was an improvement on Saturday. Let's hope that we can pull out of this bad patch quickly. Our players are better than the last few results/performances.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Let's face it, he has done enough up to this point (despite our recent issues) for his job to be safe. Let's also not forget that a new director of football would need to be well established before it made sense to get rid - even if our malaise continues.

I'm a bit bipolar with Arsenal. I can see the current problems, but at least the second half last night was an improvement on Saturday. Let's hope that we can pull out of this bad patch quickly. Our players are better than the last few results/performances.

I’ve wanted him gone for four years, but I temper that with acknowledging that for the most part this has not been a sentiment shared by others. But I don’t like the guy, not as a coach not as a person (although I equally temper that with the knowledge that I’ve never actually met him) I’ve never much cared for the style of football we play….but equally I do acknowledge that probably at least in the club’s eyes he’s done enough to justify keeping his job.

[Marc Overmars]

I back the guy but I’m very much in the camp that is expecting a glorious ending to the journey now. He’s done a lot of good work and deserves an opportunity to see it through however if this season tailspins into a disaster then I’m not sure there can be any defence for him given the money spent and the obvious deficiencies that remain up front.

Also, having to play Villa, Spurs, City, Liverpool, Newcastle and Chelsea in the opening portion of the season was always going to be difficult and some dropped points were to be expected. So I won’t throw the toys out of the pram just yet but our football is absolutely shit right now and a lot of work needs to be done to get the season back on track. I prefer to believe that we’re a good team going through a bad patch rather than a bad team that’s found it’s level.

[Letters]

I don’t think the majority of fans want Arteta gone either.
Certainly the people I have spoken to don't, I do seem to be in the minority - which is unlike me, I'm usually the super patient one.
But my reasoning is that while I fully acknowledge he has done a lot of good, and were we not up against the juggernaut of City we'd definitely have one title, possibly two, it feels like we have peaked under him. The areas of weakness last season weren't addressed in the summer and we look to have gone backwards. I just don't feel that Arteta is the man to push us over that final hurdle and land a major trophy.


But yes We can absolutely rule out the idea that he will be gone before the end of the season without the car crash, and I doubt he will be gone full stop unless we fall outside the top four (which is what the owners care about)
I don't think the part in brackets is as true as it used to be. There does seem to have been a real investment and push to do a bit better than just endless top 4 finishes. From All or Nothing it did feel there was more of a plan and more ambition.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Certainly the people I have spoken to don't, I do seem to be in the minority - which is unlike me, I'm usually the super patient one.
But my reasoning is that while I fully acknowledge he has done a lot of good, and were we not up against the juggernaut of City we'd definitely have one title, possibly two, it feels like we have peaked under him. The areas of weakness last season weren't addressed in the summer and we look to have gone backwards. I just don't feel that Arteta is the man to push us over that final hurdle and land a major trophy.


I don't think the part in brackets is as true as it used to be. There does seem to have been a real investment and push to do a bit better than just endless top 4 finishes. From All or Nothing it did feel there was more of a plan and more ambition.

I think the issue with attacking players goes back well before the summer

I acknowledge to an extent that this summer was going to be one of belt tightening, it was abundantly clear to me that we had to make player sales in order to be FFP compliant, this is why we went for the cheaper and inferior option in Merino over Zubimendi. But there was no justification in my book for spending 45 million on another defender, Arteta has spent years and a lot of money trying to procure this perfect left back….from Zinchenko to Timber to now Calafiori.
Now I really like Calafiori I’ve been really impressed by what I’ve seen of him, but we had to buy a striker at the exclusion of everything else if things were tight but we had to sign a striker.

But the thing is the same was true last summer and we ended up with Havertz, and I also like Havertz but let’s not forget that Arteta bought him as a midfielder, he’s only playing up front because Arteta finally relented and admitted he was no good playing in midfield.

In fact Jesus was never an out and out striker, often he’d play on the wing for Man City. So in fact if you look at it, we’ve never actually signed an out and out striker in the almost five years Arteta has been with us. The defenders and defensive midfielders we’ve signed are far in excess of what we’ve spent on creative players and strikers throughout his tenure. The only conclusion that you can come to is Arteta simply does not value these areas

[Mac76]

For the millionth time it wasn't FFP it was the Kroenkes wanting to break even in terms of our summer spend8ng

[HCZ_Reborn]

[QUOTE=Mac76;4597237]For the millionth time it wasn't FFP it was the Kroenkes wanting to break even in terms of our summer spend8ng[/QUOTE

Even with the Champions league money coming in the cost of the transfers we’ve made in the last few years, and the fact that we’ve been making modest losses for about five years, means we have to expand commercial revenue and continue to be in the Champions League for the next few seasons and that’s without factoring in extra expenditure for new signings.

Are we in the position of Newcastle or Aston Villa? Let alone Everton or Forest. No


But it’s a consideration all the same. Much in the same way it has been for Liverpool and let’s be fair every club in the league

The days of going berserk are over, even Chelsea had to act with some restraint

[HCZ_Reborn]

The point anyway was that the failure wasn’t even so much in not signing a striker in the summer, but not signing at least one in the three transfer windows between Summer 2022 and Summer 2023 (Jesus nor Havertz really count in my view)

[Mac76]

[QUOTE=Mac76;4597237]For the millionth time it wasn't FFP it was the Kroenkes wanting to break even in terms of our summer spend8ng[/QUOTE

Even with the Champions league money coming in the cost of the transfers we’ve made in the last few years, and the fact that we’ve been making modest losses for about five years, means we have to expand commercial revenue and continue to be in the Champions League for the next few seasons and that’s without factoring in extra expenditure for new signings.

Are we in the position of Newcastle or Aston Villa? Let alone Everton or Forest. No


But it’s a consideration all the same. Much in the same way it has been for Liverpool and let’s be fair every club in the league

The days of going berserk are over, even Chelsea had to act with some restraint

Anyway, spending lots of money has nothing to do with taking objective decisions about how much power you give the manager and how long you give them to succeed, which is actually what I'm talking about

[HCZ_Reborn]

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4597240]

Anyway, spending lots of money has nothing to do with taking objective decisions about how much power you give the manager and how long you give them to succeed, which is actually what I'm talking about

No it doesn’t, and I’m saying that spending loads of money is what helped Chelsea win things not their management policy

My attitude is unless there is a horrible run of results, a coach should get three seasons to show noticeable improvement

As for how much power the coach has, I do think a coach should be able to choose the players they want at the club. How much influence they have outside of first team tactics and training etc, well preferably little as there such be some element of compartmentalisation in that regard

[Mac76]

[QUOTE=Mac76;4597243]

No it doesn’t, and I’m saying that spending loads of money is what helped Chelsea win things not their management policy


Well that's demonstrably untrue, you only have to look at Chelsea more recently and also Man Ure to know that spending loads of money doesn't work unless you get the right manager

[HCZ_Reborn]

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4597244]

Well that's demonstrably untrue, you only have to look at Chelsea more recently and also Man Ure to know that spending loads of money doesn't work unless you get the right manager

It would be demonstrably untrue if I’d said that spending money is the only guarantee of winning things. Man United like Chelsea (more recently) have spent a lot of money on players that weren’t good enough or had the wrong attitude.


Chelsea’s high turnover of managers almost always accompanied a run of poor results, and in both cases their champions league wins were accompanied by poor league form. Three of their five titles were delivered by the same coach….so there’s an argument for retaining a sense of consistency

[Marc Overmars]

I’m not sure I’d back Arsenal being run in the same way as Chelsea however during the Abramovich era it was ridiculous how much they won despite the chaos. It was hard not to be envious when our supposed stability and consistency yielded nothing other than a few FA Cup wins.

[IBK]

Certainly the people I have spoken to don't, I do seem to be in the minority - which is unlike me, I'm usually the super patient one.
But my reasoning is that while I fully acknowledge he has done a lot of good, and were we not up against the juggernaut of City we'd definitely have one title, possibly two, it feels like we have peaked under him. The areas of weakness last season weren't addressed in the summer and we look to have gone backwards. I just don't feel that Arteta is the man to push us over that final hurdle and land a major trophy.


I don't think the part in brackets is as true as it used to be. There does seem to have been a real investment and push to do a bit better than just endless top 4 finishes. From All or Nothing it did feel there was more of a plan and more ambition.

Yes, the concern definitely is that Arteta may have peaked. There are some mitigating circumstances - look at Liverpool last season after they had been pipped by Citeh to the title by a point the previous one - off the top by 9 points, there can be fallout.

But I agree with others that the issue could well be that our manager's natural focus is on defence/possession and not in sharpening our attack. Given what we are seeing in the league - even Pep, the manager who seemed previously willing to play without an out and out striker revised his approach when buying Haaland - this seems a somewhat outmoded approach (could Arteta be living a bit in the past from his Citeh experience?).

Its funny how we have gone so quickly from having what was considered the most cutting edge tactical manager in the league (with Guardiola) to the likes of Iraola; Maresca; Slot and even Espirito Santo and Emery showing that their tactical nous is equal to his.

It's Arteta's blind spots that may prevent him from making further progress with us. It's too early to assess whether our current form will continue, but the signs are suddenly not particularly optimistic.

[Mac76]

[QUOTE=Mac76;4597246]

It would be demonstrably untrue if I’d said that spending money is the only guarantee of winning things. Man United like Chelsea (more recently) have spent a lot of money on players that weren’t good enough or had the wrong attitude.


Chelsea’s high turnover of managers almost always accompanied a run of poor results, and in both cases their champions league wins were accompanied by poor league form. Three of their five titles were delivered by the same coach….so there’s an argument for retaining a sense of consistency

As George Graham showed when he went after the Cup Winners Cup the reality it sometimes helps if you focus on one competition - no Chelsea fan is complaining at a middling league position for the years they won the CL and nor would we

[Mac76]

Yes, the concern definitely is that Arteta may have peaked. There are some mitigating circumstances - look at Liverpool last season after they had been pipped by Citeh to the title by a point the previous one - off the top by 9 points, there can be fallout.

But I agree with others that the issue could well be that our manager's natural focus is on defence/possession and not in sharpening our attack. Given what we are seeing in the league - even Pep, the manager who seemed previously willing to play without an out and out striker revised his approach when buying Haaland - this seems a somewhat outmoded approach (could Arteta be living a bit in the past from his Citeh experience?).

Its funny how we have gone so quickly from having what was considered the most cutting edge tactical manager in the league (with Guardiola) to the likes of Iraola; Maresca; Slot and even Espirito Santo and Emery showing that their tactical nous is equal to his.

It's Arteta's blind spots that may prevent him from making further progress with us. It's too early to assess whether our current form will continue, but the signs are suddenly not particularly optimistic.

We never seem to be a team who can break quickly and run up the pitch and score - i realise that's anathema to Arteta who wants us to have the ball all the time, but it's one of the reasons why Saka is always surrounded by defenders

The way he gets back to defend shows he has the pace, we just never see it going forward

I get we don't want opposition teams coming on to our defence all the time - although that's what Arteta seems to invite with his excessive defensiveness on the pitch at times - but there's a happy medium - the times Salah is at his best is when Liverpool break up the pitch

[HCZ_Reborn]

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4597247]

As George Graham showed when he went after the Cup Winners Cup the reality it sometimes helps if you focus on one competition - no Chelsea fan is complaining at a middling league position for the years they won the CL and nor would we

You mean the year we got to the final and lost ? :lol:

You’d have had a better example of the year later where we dispensed with Bruce Rioch despite getting UEFA cup football on the last day

[HCZ_Reborn]

We never seem to be a team who can break quickly and run up the pitch and score - i realise that's anathema to Arteta who wants us to have the ball all the time, but it's one of the reasons why Saka is always surrounded by defenders

The way he gets back to defend shows he has the pace, we just never see it going forward

I get we don't want opposition teams coming on to our defence all the time - although that's what Arteta seems to invite with his excessive defensiveness on the pitch at times - but there's a happy medium - the times Salah is at his best is when Liverpool break up the pitch

True although Liverpool at their zenith also liked to press teams high and then pounce on mistakes. The difference was a) more clinical than us and b) at their best they almost never fell victim to the counter attack.

But too often we don’t see interested in launching a counter attack when defending a lead and getting possession back in our own third. Now as IBK stated the other day this was meant to be one of the benefits of having David Raya in terms of distribution

I think what helped them for sure as well as having Henderson and Fabinho was that they had the support of both full backs getting forward. Whilst Ben White does that (and is a very good crosser of the ball to boot) we don’t have that on the left unless Calafiori is playing

[Mac76]

[QUOTE=Mac76;4597251]

You mean the year we got to the final and lost ? :lol:

You’d have had a better example of the year later where we dispensed with Bruce Rioch despite getting UEFA cup football on the last day

Well making a final would be progress of sorts

but yes on my other point about being ruthless with managerss, the Rioch one is a good example of the approach we need to take

[HCZ_Reborn]

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4597253]

Well making a final would be progress of sorts

but yes on my other point about being ruthless with managerss, the Rioch one is a good example of the approach we need to take

But that’s not the Chelsea approach which has been chaotic and any success largely attributable to the money pumped in. If I recall Rioch was on a deal for one year that we were able to extend but we chose not to. This is I think because Dein wanted to bring in Wenger when Graham went but was vetoed by Hill Wood (knowing Hill Wood something like “bah what would a Frenchy know about the English game”)

You can be ruthless without running a circus. We aren’t going to go beserk in the transfer market in a way that’s going to make things remotely sustainable (especially taking into consideration the cost of firing managers making pay outs and bringing in someone else) also it tends to mean you’re not going to get the best quality of coaches in. Because any decent coach will want time

I think you can argue Arteta has taken us as far as he can and I’d have no objection to parting ways with him at the end of the season (barring either a collapse or a miraculous turnaround). I think whatever this process or plan we have in place, it should be robust enough to survive his departure. But I don’t want us to have a revolving door hiring policy.

I think actually someone needs to be identified who we believe can get us the bare minimum of the title in the next three seasons

[Mac76]

[QUOTE=Mac76;4597255]

But that’s not the Chelsea approach which has been chaotic and any success largely attributable to the money pumped in

honestly it's just "lalalalala" with you isn't it - I'm talking about Abramovic's Chelsea not the mess they are now

and again pumping loads of money in doesn't help on its own, as Chelsea and Man Ure have been in the last few years, spending loads and now and being mid-table

[HCZ_Reborn]

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4597256]

honestly it's just "lalalalala" with you isn't it - I'm talking about Abramovic's Chelsea not the mess they are now

and again pumping loads of money in doesn't help on its own, as Chelsea and Man Ure have been in the last few years, spending loads and now and being mid-table

You’re the one making the argument here. I know full well what era of Chelsea you’re talking about.

I don’t think it’s a good or successful model of running a club, the only reason it remotely worked for them in terms of winning anything at all was the amount of money they pumped in. The reason it doesn’t work now is because you have an inflated transfer market which means now more than ever as you say spending money doesn’t guarantee success

I don’t think it’s a good way to run a club, and I don’t think it would work for us. Instead of trying to claim that I’m deliberately misunderstanding you, accept that people not agreeing with you is not the worst thing that will happen to you

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol: you are actually unbelievable. I’m actually for once trying to be reasonable rather than dismissive and insulting (which is more fun) but all you’re proving here is what I knew to begin with that everything you claim about me is mere projection. You literally can’t stand to be disagreed with. I don’t know if you think I’m disagreeing with you for the sake of it, No I don’t think Chelsea in the last twenty years has ever been a good model for sustainability at a football club.
I think the only success they’ve had has been down to money, and I don’t think Man United in the age of FFP in anyway disproves that. But guess what fella, you don’t have to agree. But the exasperation isn’t necessary…think of your blood pressure

[Mac76]

I'm just amazed you keep saying the thing about it only being about money when, for the third time, Man Ure and Chelsea, as well as others have showed just spending money isn't the answer unless it's used right and you have someone who can get the team to win

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm just amazed you keep saying the thing about it only being about money when, for the third time, Man Ure and Chelsea, as well as others have showed just spending money isn't the answer unless it's used right and you have someone who can get the team to win

And for the final time, I agree with you that money alone won’t win you things. But a) That maxim is far more true today than fifteen-twenty years ago given that spending a large amount of money on a player is a bigger risk today because there’s less guarantee that player will be decent, because of the inflated transfer market and b) Even if that is not the case, having a reasonable transfer policy doesn’t translate into the managerial hire and fire policy being good

And C you have to be able to spend loads of money for that to work anyway because of the cost of paying out a manager for the rest of their contract when you sack them in addition to hiring their replacement (especially if they are contracted to another club)

Chelsea were spending loads of money at a time when it was a much bigger guarantor of success, because they were able to purchase the finished article, unlike now where in the main the same crazy spending buys them a prospect.

So once again I’m going to say to you, in my view Chelsea’s intermittent trophy success was far more about the money they spent than the way the club was run. Frankly I’m amazed that this seems controversial to you. But as I keep saying you don’t have to agree. But acting like I’ve taken a shit on the pavement for saying so, says more about you