Chelsea 1-1 Arsenal Player Rating and Match Reaction

[HCZ_Reborn]

Raya 7 - Didn’t have much to do, the power of Neto’s shot meant he didn’t have much chance of saving it


White 6 - Looks tired, just as well he’s not on international duty


Saliba 7 - Struggled at times


Gabriel 6.5 - wasn’t confident with the ball


Timber 7 - Actually didn’t play at all badly


Partey 6 - Not one of his better games


Rice 6 - Looked all at sea


Odegaard 7.5 - Despite lacking match fitness, made big difference for us


Martinelli 8 - But for a smart save from Sanchez would have had a brace


Havertz 6 - Didn’t need to be offside


Saka 6 - Largely anonymous


Subs


Merino 5 - Useless

Jesus 5 - Doubly Useless


Trossard 5 - Fantastic defensive block at the end when Havertz had a tap in, oh wait Havertz plays for us…trebly useless



Performance that was low on confidence. Not a terrible performance much like Inter wasn’t a terrible performance, just lacking the bite and maybe gave a wasteful Chelsea too many shooting opportunities.


This is a team that at this moment in time is not better than the sum of its parts, we have some top individual players…(and yes we have some absolute dross stinking up the place - Zinchenko, Jesus, Merino, Sterling are the offending quartet?

It needs to release itself from the shackles imposed on it by a control freak coach, as at the moment we aren’t scoring enough goals and we look nervous when defending a lead.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Well, who would've thought we would be out of the title race before the middle of November this season.

Genuinely I am really disappointed with the lot of them, they have all been poor & it started with a ridiculous and unambitious transfer window.

That was the catalyst for failure IMO.

[Letters]

Well, who would've thought we would be out of the title race before the middle of November this season.
I don't know if we are.
It does feel like a long way back but there's no way Liverpool are going to keep up this pace - I mean, if they do then fair play, but I can't see it.
And our season has been front-loaded with a lot of tricky away games. Let's see where we are at the turn of the year, we have a kinder run coming up.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If City were nine points ahead I’d say the title was over, but it’s Liverpool who have played the easiest fixtures. We absolutely need to make up ground in the next couple of months and if we are nine points off or worse by the new year I’d say it’s over, but at this stage? Far far too early

If it’s five points or less and we buy a striker in January (two big ifs) then actually I’d make us favourites again


City are as I’ve said haemorrhaging.

[Mac76]

It's obviously not technically over, but if we can't find a way of scoring more goals then clearly we're on a hiding to nothing

As you may have noticed I don't share people's view of Liverpool in terms of how likely they are to fade away, I think Slot is managing his resources well

I's say it's definitely between them and Citeh, and I say Citeh partly because of their form in the second half of previous seasons (and if you look at the fixtures they turn very freindly for them about that time)

Haaland's clearly off the pace atm despite scoring yesterday but it won't last a whole season, plus who's to say Guardiola won't bring in a Rodri-type player in January if he thinks he needs to

As for us I think slagging off Merino is pointless, he's there to shore up the midfield because that's what Arteta prioritised, so it's on Arteta if we have a player who is unspectacular and are still missing a striker

It's Arteta himself that makes me think we won't win the league

The next home game vs Forest will be a real test, they are in excellent form and we are struggling, plus they're now directly competing with us in the league

[Letters]

If City were nine points ahead I’d say the title was over, but it’s Liverpool who have played the easiest fixtures. We absolutely need to make up ground in the next couple of months and if we are nine points off or worse by the new year I’d say it’s over, but at this stage? Far far too early

If it’s five points or less and we buy a striker in January (two big ifs) then actually I’d make us favourites again


City are as I’ve said haemorrhaging.

I more or less agree although I'm loathe to write City off. They have previous for going in to beast mode and just winning every game after Christmas and blitzing everyone.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I don't know if we are.
It does feel like a long way back but there's no way Liverpool are going to keep up this pace - I mean, if they do then fair play, but I can't see it.
And our season has been front-loaded with a lot of tricky away games. Let's see where we are at the turn of the year, we have a kinder run coming up.

It's a 4 game swing minimum & we have to be perfect from now until the end of the season.
Our gameplay has been so bad the last 6 games that I cannot see us turning it around enough to be perfect.

Law of averages now suggests we are already out of it.

Which is a disgrace at this stage of 'the project'

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's obviously not technically over, but if we can't find a way of scoring more goals then clearly we're on a hiding to nothing

As you may have noticed I don't share people's view of Liverpool in terms of how likely they are to fade away, I think Slot is managing his resources well

I's say it's definitely between them and Citeh, and I say Citeh partly because of their form in the second half of previous seasons (and if you look at the fixtures they turn very freindly for them about that time)

Haaland's clearly off the pace atm despite scoring yesterday but it won't last a whole season, plus who's to say Guardiola won't bring in a Rodri-type player in January if he thinks he needs to

As for us I think slagging off Merino is pointless, he's there to shore up the midfield because that's what Arteta prioritised, so it's on Arteta if we have a player who is unspectacular and are still missing a striker

It's Arteta himself that makes me think we won't win the league

The next home game vs Forest will be a real test, they are in excellent form and we are struggling, plus they're now directly competing with us in the league

Forest lost 3-1 at home to Newcastle yesterday

They have made themselves tough to beat, but once the wall is breached….its breached

Score first (which we do 75% of the time) and they are done with


Arteta is a massive drag factor, but I think this team is capable of big achievements once it throws off the shackles he puts on us.

Really in terms of performances this season is not much different to the first half of last season. Disjointed, not great, galaxy brained tactics….only difference is far harder games have been played away from home


Goals are a concern, but the potential remains to score a lot of goals with the players we have.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's a 4 game swing minimum & we have to be perfect from now until the end of the season.
Our gameplay has been so bad the last 6 games that I cannot see us turning it around enough to be perfect.

Law of averages now suggests we are already out of it.

Which is a disgrace at this stage of 'the project'

Why do we need to be perfect from now until the end of the season?

We need to go on a good run for sure. But that’s always been the case with us and winning the title

My marker is that we can probably be six points off the top by new year and still be well in with a shout

[HCZ_Reborn]

I more or less agree although I'm loathe to write City off. They have previous for going in to beast mode and just winning every game after Christmas and blitzing everyone.

There is a reason why they haven’t lost for almost two years in the league with Rodri in the team. There’s a reason why he won the ballon d’or, it’s a recognition that he’s the most influential player in world football currently.

It was clear to me looking at City that these defeats were only a matter of time. I’m not saying it’s impossible for this “beast mode” to happen, but in my view it’s at least 70% less likely. The last time Man City lost four times in a row was 2006.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The Annoying thing is it’s not the hardest fixtures we’ve done badly in. If you told me at the beginning of the season that we’d get 8 points from away games at Villa, Spurs, City and Chelsea I’d be more than happy with that.

It’s Bournemouth, Liverpool and Newcastle that are the annoying games. I think the red card for Saliba (especially given it wasn’t given on the field) was ridiculously harsh. Newcastle we were Shane McGowan (largely toothless).


Liverpool it didn’t help we didn’t have Saliba and that we didn’t stick away the chances we made


We have been far from great. But what makes me positive is I think we are clearly capable of much better, especially when Arteta invariably relents and stops these stubborn silly galaxy brained tactics

[Marc Overmars]

We’ve had tough games but then I’d also look at the fact we lost to Bournemouth and made hard work of Leicester and Southampton too. Not winning at least one of the fixtures with City, Liverpool and Chelsea despite being in a winning position late on is also uncharacteristic of what we’ve come to expect in recent times. We definitely aren’t at the level we set for ourselves last season.

I do suspect Liverpool wouldn’t be where they are if they had our opening 11 fixtures but ultimately it’s all pie in the sky. I don’t know how often the title has been won by a team that found themselves 9 points off the pace, even at a relatively early stage like this.

We’ll see if we can string together some wins and now with Odegaard back hopefully things become less messy and more polished.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We’ve had tough games but then I’d also look at the fact we lost to Bournemouth and made hard work of Leicester and Southampton too. Not winning at least one of the fixtures with City, Liverpool and Chelsea despite being in a winning position late on is also uncharacteristic of what we’ve come to expect in recent times. We definitely aren’t at the level we set for ourselves last season.

I do suspect Liverpool wouldn’t be where they are if they had our opening 11 fixtures but ultimately it’s all pie in the sky. I don’t know how often the title has been won by a team that found themselves 9 points off the pace, even at a relatively early stage like this.

We’ll see if we can string together some wins and now with Odegaard back hopefully things become less messy and more polished.

I think at this point of the season the points total is largely meaningless

City this season we did well to draw with away from home with ten men

Last season in first half, Liverpool we were leading at Anfield and drew, winning against Spurs and drew

Had to come from behind against Chelsea , we beat City because we scored late and they didn’t have time to get back into the game despite a harikari performance from Raya.

And yes we were ropey against teams we should have been beating, Burnley was a struggle at home, Wolves at home was a struggle at home, Forest at home was a struggle. Fulham we conspired to snatch a draw from victory. West Ham we lost 2-0 despite dominating chances and possession. We lost away 1-0 at Newcastle and Villa


We weren’t scoring freely with the exception of Sheffield United.


Am I disappointed that we haven’t been significantly better than the first half of the season? Yes. But we sure as hell are no worse

[IBK]

The optimistic view is that we looked significantly better going forwards with Odegard back. I was surprised he started and astonished that he lasted the whole game. even at 70% he made a real difference to what we have been seeing over the past few weeks. The red cards; key injuries and bang out of form players (Rice and Trossard I'm looking at you here), have made it a pretty dismal first third of the season for us. While I'd agree with HCZ that we were also not fluent during the first half of last season, we have dropped 14 points compared with 9 at this point in 2023, and adverse circumstances as well as tougher comparable fixtures can account for this deficit.

The more pessimistic/realistic view is that IMO last season's team would have taken 3 points from Chelsea in this game. We are not looking like champions, and while I think there will be better competition from other teams - and a lower overall points total to win the league - this applies to us as well as our competitors. I think it's unlikely that we will go on a monster winning streak. I think that Arteta is looking a bit desperate, and at this stage in his project we should be looking more assured and fluent. We understood that he was building a team in which players could fulfill different roles, and have a number of different game plans to suit the opposition but instead we are over-reliant on key players being at 100%, and the 'Plan B' for dealing with our captain's absence has come to define us so far - a stodgy, defensive minded team with sterile possession, vulnerable to counter attacks. Whisper it quietly, but our defence is looking less assured than it did, and without our forwards giving us a reliable and consistent threat we can be got at - as Chelsea did with their equaliser yesterday.

The elephant in the room is of course our lack of investment in a striker/forward. It does seem increasingly negligent that the manager has left us so clearly short in this department. For Arteta to have been so brutal in replacing Ramsdale; getting rid of Smith-Rowe and stockpiling defenders, but then seemingly to have placed his attacking trust in Saka (criminally overplayed; clearly shattered and marked out of games); Jesus (gone - a busted flush); and Trossard (never more than a useful squad player who has been clearly overwhelmed by the additional responsibility placed on him), as well as Martinelli - who has been left isolated and part of a LHS that has not functioned properly since Xhaka left - to me shows a massive blind spot that is increasingly convincing me that he may have taken us as far as he is going to.

Just like last season we are now relying un luck rather than expectation that we will overhaul the teams in front of us. Unlike last season we are already in this position in November - and I'm beginning to think that in terms of luck we used all of ours last time...but still failed to deliver the league.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Another thing to say about Liverpool, is that we’ve been struggling for goals and yet they’ve got three goals more than us

They’ve conceded fewer goals which is disappointing as we have a far superior defence personnel wise, but you can’t account for teams that have been extremely wasteful against them

This is why I think the nine point gap is undesirable but insignificant at this stage. It’s not to say we definitely will overhaul them, but I think it’s definitely too early to be so certain we won’t

[HCZ_Reborn]

The optimistic view is that we looked significantly better going forwards with Odegard back. I was surprised he started and astonished that he lasted the whole game. even at 70% he made a real difference to what we have been seeing over the past few weeks. The red cards; key injuries and bang out of form players (Rice and Trossard I'm looking at you here), have made it a pretty dismal first third of the season for us. While I'd agree with HCZ that we were also not fluent during the first half of last season, we have dropped 14 points compared with 9 at this point in 2023, and adverse circumstances as well as tougher comparable fixtures can account for this deficit.

The more pessimistic/realistic view is that IMO last season's team would have taken 3 points from Chelsea in this game. We are not looking like champions, and while I think there will be better competition from other teams - and a lower overall points total to win the league - this applies to us as well as our competitors. I think it's unlikely that we will go on a monster winning streak. I think that Arteta is looking a bit desperate, and at this stage in his project we should be looking more assured and fluent. We understood that he was building a team in which players could fulfill different roles, and have a number of different game plans to suit the opposition but instead we are over-reliant on key players being at 100%, and the 'Plan B' for dealing with our captain's absence has come to define us so far - a stodgy, defensive minded team with sterile possession, vulnerable to counter attacks. Whisper it quietly, but our defence is looking less assured than it did, and without our forwards giving us a reliable and consistent threat we can be got at - as Chelsea did with their equaliser yesterday.

The elephant in the room is of course our lack of investment in a striker/forward. It does seem increasingly negligent that the manager has left us so clearly short in this department. For Arteta to have been so brutal in replacing Ramsdale; getting rid of Smith-Rowe and stockpiling defenders, but then seemingly to have placed his attacking trust in Saka (criminally overplayed; clearly shattered and marked out of games); Jesus (gone - a busted flush); and Trossard (never more than a useful squad player who has been clearly overwhelmed by the additional responsibility placed on him), as well as Martinelli - who has been left isolated and part of a LHS that has not functioned properly since Xhaka left - to me shows a massive blind spot that is increasingly convincing me that he may have taken us as far as he is going to.

Just like last season we are now relying un luck rather than expectation that we will overhaul the teams in front of us. Unlike last season we are already in this position in November - and I'm beginning to think that in terms of luck we used all of ours last time...but still failed to deliver the league.

Very balanced and analytical

Im not generally predisposed to be Optimistic. And I don’t think my current opinion comes from optimism. It’s how unimpressed I am with the other teams in the league

The lack of a striker was I agree negligent. I was scolded for being annoyed at spending so much on Calafiori when we needed a striker.

[IBK]

Another thing to say about Liverpool, is that we’ve been struggling for goals and yet they’ve got three goals more than us

They’ve conceded fewer goals which is disappointing as we have a far superior defence personnel wise, but you can’t account for teams that have been extremely wasteful against them

This is why I think the nine point gap is undesirable but insignificant at this stage. It’s not to say we definitely will overhaul them, but I think it’s definitely too early to be so certain we won’t

Agreed in principle, and also that things should only get better with Odegard back. But the difference between us and both Liverpool and Citeh is that (particularly with the former), they have reliable goal scoring options and therefore pose a greater threat than we do. We also shackle our forwards - Havertz; Martinelli and Saka - with defensive duties that mean they can tire over time as well as being overplayed. Liverpool can freshen their attack with numerous options, and Haaland isnt expected to track back all the time. When we were sharing the goal out last season, this relied on 'one brain' football and fuidity that depends upon players being bang in form and confident - its easy to see how this approach can break down when these circumstances go missing - like when we are chasing a goal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think they massively rely on Salah.

Nunez, Gakpo, Diaz can all blow hot and cold

Salah has scored in ten of their seventeen games this season

For me it’s telling that we have horrendously neglected recruitment to our forward line for years and they are only marginally more dangerous in attack.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Really in terms of performances this season is not much different to the first half of last season. Disjointed, not great, galaxy brained tactics….only difference is far harder games have been played away from home

That in itself is a huge problem for me as it indicates the total lack of progression.



Goals are a concern, but the potential remains to score a lot of goals with the players we have.

These are players that were scoring goals and good at doing it too, now they seem to be at amateur level for some reason, where they don't really shoot, can't aim for toffee or don't attack the ball in the box.

[HCZ_Reborn]

That in itself is a huge problem for me as it indicates the total lack of progression.




These are players that were scoring goals and good at doing it too, now they seem to be at amateur level for some reason, where they don't really shoot, can't aim for toffee or don't attack the ball in the box.

Oh there’s been very little actual progression but we didn’t strengthen in the key areas so what can you expect

The same issue was there with goalscoring around this time last season. It’s why playing without an actual striker is not a good idea

[KSE Comedy Club]

Why do we need to be perfect from now until the end of the season?

We need to go on a good run for sure. But that’s always been the case with us and winning the title

My marker is that we can probably be six points off the top by new year and still be well in with a shout

Because that is the only way to 'guarantee' a title win - which we should be doing this year after 5 years of spending millions to compete.
We can afford a couple of games point drops but realistically, no more than 2 games.


From this point in the season:
Liverpool can get a max total of 109 points
Citeh can get a max total of 104 points
We can get a max total of 100 points.

So if we are saying the average points needed to win is 90 - it doesn't leave us with much room to breathe

[Letters]

From this point in the season:
Liverpool can get a max total of 109 points
Citeh can get a max total of 104 points
But they're not going to get those totals are they? If nothing else they play each other.
I don't agree we have to be perfect but we do need to go on a run now - with the games we have we should be doing that.
Do that and Liverpool drop some points - which they're surely going to do - and we can chip away at that lead. If it's 9 points at the turn of the year then I'd agree it's all over bar the shouting, but there's a lot of football to be played between now and then.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think at this point of the season the points total is largely meaningless

The average points total after 10 games for any team eventually being crowned champions is 22.5 - so we are already 3-4 points behind that.




But we sure as hell are no worse


After 11 games:
2022/23 = 28 points
2023/24 = 24 points
2024/25 = 19 points

I would say we are definitely worse.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The average points total after 10 games for any team eventually being crowned champions is 22.5 - so we are already 3-4 points behind that.




After 11 games:
2022/23 = 28 points
2023/24 = 24 points
2024/25 = 19 points

I would say we are definitely worse.

Apples and Bowling Balls when you compare fixtures

Last season after five games we had the same amount of points at home as we do last season

And away games much tougher, we’d also played more games at home than away from home after 11 games.


Two seasons ago we did the same as last season but in reverse, had one good half of the season, one indifferent half

You realise there’s a big difference between average points total is 22 points and saying no team has won the title without at least 22 points

[HCZ_Reborn]

Also we’d scored 23 goals at this point last season compared to 18 this. However six of those goals were penalties and we’ve had not one penalty given to us in the league this season

And that’s before you factor in that 5 of those goals were against Sheffield United who were pathetic

No injuries to key players or suspensions due to pedantic red cards


Now my contention is that we weren’t great last season in the first half (because we weren’t) but the scope is actually there for us to be in a better position than we were at Xmas last year (where we were just as poor in form).

My general point is, it’s nothing we haven’t seen before and therefore no reason yet to be too despondent. I was definitely hoping that we’d put these poor spells behind us, but that was being incredibly optimistic without a striker

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Very balanced and analytical

Im not generally predisposed to be Optimistic. And I don’t think my current opinion comes from optimism. It’s how unimpressed I am with the other teams in the league

The lack of a striker was I agree negligent. I was scolded for being annoyed at spending so much on Calafiori when we needed a striker.

When you word things like this you make it sound like their was another sentient creature on this green earth that agreed with Arteta's reasoning i.e. getting another CB was more important than bringing in a forward.

Anyway, like IBK said, we'll need a whole lot of luck now and to keep praying the gap doesn't get bigger which could miraculously allow us in January to correct these grievous sins of omission.

[KSE Comedy Club]

But they're not going to get those totals are they? If nothing else they play each other.
I don't agree we have to be perfect but we do need to go on a run now - with the games we have we should be doing that.
Do that and Liverpool drop some points - which they're surely going to do - and we can chip away at that lead. If it's 9 points at the turn of the year then I'd agree it's all over bar the shouting, but there's a lot of football to be played between now and then.

No of course not, but if you took it in the context of what I was saying about the average points total to WTL, then we have far less wiggle room now than both of them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

When you word things like this you make it sound like their was another sentient creature on this green earth that agreed with Arteta's reasoning i.e. getting another CB was more important than bringing in a forward.

Anyway, like IBK said, we'll need a whole lot of luck now and to keep praying the gap doesn't get bigger which could miraculously allow us in January to correct these grievous sins of omission.

I was on another Arsenal forum around August, and I got suspended after people piled on me for making such a suggestion (that it was negligent to prioritise a defender). Though of course I can’t confirm their sentience

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I was on another Arsenal forum around August, and I got suspended after people piled on me for making such a suggestion (that it was negligent to prioritise a defender). Though of course I can’t confirm their sentience

WTF....they definitely couldn't have been Arsenal fans, probably Spuds....but they can't even enjoy our misery either as they are going through a lot too :lol:.

Its actually a bit funny how the newbie mangers (at least the ones who got top teams) are the ones doing pretty well currently. You might want to reconsider that argument you were having with Mac on Abramovich's model of handling the help.

[HCZ_Reborn]

WTF....they definitely couldn't have been Arsenal fans, probably Spuds....but they can't even enjoy our misery either as they are going through a lot too :lol:.

Its actually a bit funny how the newbie mangers (at least the ones who got top teams) are the ones doing pretty well currently. You might want to reconsider that argument you were having with Mac on Abramovich's model of handling the help.

Not at all, because there’s a cavernous gulf between saying Arteta is not taking us forward and we should look to replace and embracing the chaos that’s the norm at Chelsea and has been since Mourinho flounced off for the first time back in 2007.

Getting a new coach in with new ideas….great, sacking that coach because it’s not working out within six months? Not so good. And in Chelsea’s case a lot of the time it came down to the fact that they were making poor hiring choices to begin with. Big Phil Scolari, AvB and the phalanx of different Italians they brought in.

[HCZ_Reborn]

One of the hard lessons one has to learn in life is that what we take to be objective fact, is not always shared by others

When we talk purely about Arsenal fans online, we are in the distinct minority. The majority of fans think the LEGO haired weirdo can do no wrong.

The argument they made is, how can we be lacking a striker when we scored 91 goals in the league last season. A fundamentally superficial and flawed argument but they made it all the same and with conviction

The underlying argument was that if Arteta thinks we need a defender more, that’s clearly got to be the case….

[HCZ_Reborn]

Because that is the only way to 'guarantee' a title win - which we should be doing this year after 5 years of spending millions to compete.
We can afford a couple of games point drops but realistically, no more than 2 games.


From this point in the season:
Liverpool can get a max total of 109 points
Citeh can get a max total of 104 points
We can get a max total of 100 points.

So if we are saying the average points needed to win is 90 - it doesn't leave us with much room to breathe

Don’t think anyone can guarantee a title win, not even City

The money spent should of course make it more likely than we can challenge

And I think people have pulled down the shutters in their belief that we won’t challenge, a wee bit early is all I’m saying

I get the despondency for sure, but there are simply too many floating variables to be fatalistic (imo)

[Letters]

No of course not, but if you took it in the context of what I was saying about the average points total to WTL, then we have far less wiggle room now than both of them.

Well of course, we are below them both.
But it's early enough in the season and we've had enough tricky fixtures already to make me believe the gap isn't unbridgeable.
Weirdly I feel more upbeat today than I did last week, despite falling a further 2 points back. City lost, we navigated another tricky away game with an acceptable result. Odegaard is back which will give us a boost. Like I said, let's see where we are at the turn of the year.

[Mac76]

I was on another Arsenal forum around August, and I got suspended after people piled on me for making such a suggestion

i thought it was because you called someone a c***? :unsure:

[HCZ_Reborn]

i thought it was because you called someone a c***? :unsure:

:haha:

It escalated

[HCZ_Reborn]

But basically if I’m being 100% factually accurate they suspended my account because I literally dared them to do so, words to the effect of “Don’t threaten to suspend my account, either do it or don’t”.

But yeah they were an odd lot, took exception to me posting in non Arsenal topic posts (I have other interests outside of Arsenal football club), kept accusing me of being a previous user under a different identity (had honestly never been there before) and basically kept making the argument that I was being a bit too much considering I’d only recently joined and didn’t take kindly to the fact that I pointed out that, that was irrelevant

But the whole issue started because I’d claimed Arteta had fucked us over by spending the majority of the summer budget on a defender. The usual “you think you know better than Arteta what the team needs?” substitute for an argument followed and it escalated from there.

[Mac76]

TBH I don't get much change in the pub after the game if I'm critical of Arteta, I do get all the 'we nearly won the league etc'

but as we know, you can nearly win the league but still have faults

Arteta's obsession with never wanting to concede a goal ever is an unachievable fantasy, we need to score more at the other end if we're going to be contenders

our best hope is that Saka, Rice and Odegaard sit out these effing internationals and we can go again and try to start winning games, then get a goal-scorer in January to boost what will need to have been an already good run to give us even a chance

[HCZ_Reborn]

TBH I don't get much change in the pub after the game if I'm critical of Arteta, I do get all the 'we nearly won the league etc'

but as we know, you can nearly win the league but still have faults

Arteta's obsession with never wanting to concede a goal ever is an unachievable fantasy, we need to score more at the other end if we're going to be contenders

our best hope is that Saka, Rice and Odegaard sit out these effing internationals and we can go again and try to start winning games, then get a goal-scorer in January to boost what will need to have been an already good run to give us even a chance

I used to get people looking at me like I had two heads when I was critical of Aaron Ramsey

Sorry guys I don’t think he’s that good

But then again can’t remember going to the pub before or after an Arsenal game in an age, most of the pubs on the Holloway Road remind me too much of the central line during rush hour. That said, I don’t go to many games anymore…I’m not a season ticket holder and I don’t especially care for paying out £100 a game (I have a Twitter contact who if he’s not going to a game will offer me the ticket)

I heard it said (and I don’t know how true it is) that a lot of match going Arsenal fans, it’s just part of a ritual for them…win, lose or draw…they are happy as long as they’ve had their time away from the missus and the kids on a Saturday (of course you could really say that about any football fan)

[Mac76]

I heard it said (and I don’t know how true it is) that a lot of match going Arsenal fans, it’s just part of a ritual for them…win, lose or draw…they are happy as long as they’ve had their time away from the missus and the kids on a Saturday (of course you could really say that about any football fan)

Yes I think that's true of all fams on one level but the people I know are genuinely pissed off when we lose and happy when we win, i think our reasons for losing ate just seen differently, less of an underlying issue and more things happening on the day

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes I think that's true of all fams on one level but the people I know are genuinely pissed off when we lose and happy when we win, i think our reasons for losing ate just seen differently, less of an underlying issue and more things happening on the day

Sounds about right

[IBK]

I think they massively rely on Salah.

Nunez, Gakpo, Diaz can all blow hot and cold

Salah has scored in ten of their seventeen games this season

For me it’s telling that we have horrendously neglected recruitment to our forward line for years and they are only marginally more dangerous in attack.


The respective forwards' EPL tally this season - Salah (10); Diaz (5); Nunez (2) and Jota (2) compares pretty unfavourably with Havertz (4); Martinelli (3); Saka (3) and Trossard (2). Salah might be their go to guy, as Haaland is for City but most successful teams have a star striker, and as you say, our lack of one seems to be an Achilles heel.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The respective forwards' EPL tally this season - Salah (10); Diaz (5); Nunez (2) and Jota (2) compares pretty unfavourably with Havertz (4); Martinelli (3); Saka (3) and Trossard (2). Salah might be their go to guy, as Haaland is for City but most successful teams have a star striker, and as you say, our lack of one seems to be an Achilles heel.

Oh true, the point is that they aren’t massively outscoring us (or anyone else for that matter). And I don’t think there’s an extra level they can get to. This is as good as it gets for them

[Mac76]

The respective forwards' EPL tally this season - Salah (10); Diaz (5); Nunez (2) and Jota (2) compares pretty unfavourably with Havertz (4); Martinelli (3); Saka (3) and Trossard (2). Salah might be their go to guy, as Haaland is for City but most successful teams have a star striker, and as you say, our lack of one seems to be an Achilles heel.

I think you mean 'favourably' i.e. Liverpool's is better - given their top scorer has twice the amount of goals than ours?

[HCZ_Reborn]

8 goals (2 of which have been pels)

And overall they’ve scored three goals more than us

If the argument is that Salah is better than any of our forward players. Great, it’s not an argument I’ve tried to contradict

[Mac76]

8 goals (2 of which have been pels)



you said "Salah (10); Diaz (5); Nunez (2) and Jota (2)"

[HCZ_Reborn]

you said "Salah (10); Diaz (5); Nunez (2) and Jota (2)"

No I didn’t, another poster did

[Mac76]

No I didn’t, another poster did

ok, fair enough I took it at face value

However my point still stands that to say Liverpool's performance is 'unfavourable' - i.e. worse - compared to ours is clearly not true and I actually wondered if he'd meant to say favourable

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes

[IBK]

I think you mean 'favourably' i.e. Liverpool's is better - given their top scorer has twice the amount of goals than ours?

Nope - I meant unfavourably - ie to our disadvantage...;)

unfavourably
/ʌnˈfeɪv(ə)rəbli/
adverb
1.
to the disadvantage of someone or something.
"the plan unfavourably impacted on sales"
2.
with a lack of approval or support.
"his books were viewed unfavourably and fell out of print"

:geek:

...and I was referring to Liverpool's goals, not performances...

[Mac76]

Nope - I meant unfavourably - ie to our disadvantage...;)

unfavourably
/ʌnˈfeɪv(ə)rəbli/
adverb
1.
to the disadvantage of someone or something.
"the plan unfavourably impacted on sales"
2.
with a lack of approval or support.
"his books were viewed unfavourably and fell out of print"

:geek:

...and I was referring to Liverpool's goals, not performances...

Yes I know what it means thank you ;)

So you've put it the wrong way round - if Liverpool's record is better than Arsenal's it compares favourably, not unfavourably, with Arsenal's